Nov 19
A few thoughts on Henry, ‘cheating’, the universe etc
This is a United blog. I’m quite aware of that. We are also in the midst of the international week which, thankfully, is coming to an end. [Almost feels like a birthday present] But sometimes, even events that transpire during a spell of supposed irrelevance, such as yesterday, can turn out to be pertinent and worth discussing in a shrine — such as this site — so engrossed in red-tinted worship.
So bear with me this once.
I had the pleasure of being at work, unable to partake in the drama that was the Ireland-France world cup playoff match. My sympathies are with the Irish, who are out thanks to, what could be mildly put, an unfortunate incident.
I did however pore through twitter, where I’m quite active. [Stop snickering at the back there! What?! You're not on twitter? Well, you should. And when you do, you should do the right thing and follow me; byte-sized pearls of wisdom, and immortal quips, I can guarantee.] And amidst the streams of frustration, sadness and anger was another wave — a tidal wave of moral indignation. “Henry is a cheat!” “Thierry Henry has tainted everything because of that.” “Henry u r a fkin twat! @#$#)*,” said another quite eloquently.
But such hysteria is acceptable to a degree. It’s a part of the game; passions are heightened because of the occasion. There’s a lot of pain for most Irish, and fans of the Ireland team, and it’s quite natural for anyone to fall into that depressing chasm.
I also observed a fair number of journalists on twitter — English journalists mainly. You saw a similar thread of thought not too different from fans. Of course, they are, after all, like us — passionate football people; love some or loathe some. But the least you’d expect is for them to collect their emotions, lock it in a basket in some mental recess — keeping just an ounce of it — while gathering that thing called perspective and write a piece that doesn’t centre on the demonization of a footballer. Everyone, from Henry Winter in the Telegraph to some on the Mirror have gone for it.
The vocal majority conclusion, or so it seems, has been this: Thierry Henry, while auditioning for the French national volleyball team, has tainted everything that he achieved as a “footballing legend” forever consigning him to the ranks of footballing villains.
Of course, if I would briefly put on my red-tinted glasses, we as United fans would know fully well that Henry is far from one of our favourite players. I wasn’t particularly fond of him, for all his brilliance for Arsenal. And I think it’s not just because he was an Arsenal player. What shocked me about the widespread media reaction to his act of cheating wasn’t their general hysteria over it, but their conclusion that this incident particularly destroyed his reputation. What, then, of his blatant dive to earn a free kick against Spain in the last world cup? Was it because it was against the Iberians that it wasn’t tainted enough? Does it have to be against one of the teams on which the glare of the English speaking media are firmly trained to earn a despicable taint? This, of course, doesn’t include the wide litany of reasons United fans would give to explain why Henry was a twat, but let’s leave that aside for now.
It’s not right that Thierry Henry cheated. It’s terrible, in fact. Everything about those series of events feels awful even in highlight reels. The result is terribly unfair, and will doubtless spark off another series of debates on the need for technology [as the cynic in me would say only as far as the club season resumes in the weekend.] But, this self-righteous indignation — of demonizing anyone because they weren’t confirming to their moral framework, dismissing, in a fit of rage for sure, everything a player may have or have not done because of an incident is something they need to get out of. It’s deflecting blame from real issues. Ronaldo was vilified for a wink [while Rooney was overlooked for actually stamping on Carvalho's crotch], Eduardo was treated like a terrorist for a dive but when his leg was broken in two by a horrific (potentially career ending) tackle by Martin Taylor — the tackler received more sympathy on the lines of “oh, he’s not that bad as a person.”
Diving is as bad as thuggery on the pitch. I would actually argue that where diving cons the referee, thuggish, cynical tackling could potentially end careers. Nonetheless, the moral compass will continue to scream whenever a player cheats, and invoke sympathy for thugs. There are the usual thoughts on Platini and Blatter, for instance, to have rules in place to stamp out both ugly sides of the game. But, as much as we would like to introduce video replays it’s hard to strike a balance, disrupting the pace of the game, in our bid to try to get every decision right. But, as much as Platini’s faced stick, his proposal of having referees near the goal would have spotted this particular incident. But that’s besides the point.
My point? Well, there wasn’t one particular point in this rambling piece. I think I tried to cover a few issues that have irked me several times in the past.
Meanwhile, discussions between Arsenal fans stoutly defending Henry as an Arsenal great to United fans will have moved the discussion towards who was the more honourable diver. “Hey, at least Henry admitted it was a handball,” said one. Indeed. Quite moving.
PS: For those of you scratching your heads going WTF, at this post, fret not. Regular service will resume — United related service, I mean. It’s a momentary lapse… of topic.
Related items from Red Rants:
- Gabriel Obertan – Shades of Henry?
- Man Utd v Chelsea: Community Shield Preview
- United get Milan, Giggs gets new deal
- Reaction to the Chelsea defeat
- CHAMPIONEEEESSSSSS! YESSSSS!
Tags: Opinions/Columns
November 19th, 2009 at 9:42
Fucking bloody Cheat… Cheated the whole nation… And crushed there dreams of going to WC2010. But, you know what everyone still interested in what punishment Fergie has got for saying the truth… Bloody asshole…..
November 19th, 2009 at 9:46
Once an Arsenal player, always an Arsenal player…
November 19th, 2009 at 9:53
I`ll say this. No other punishment but banning France from the World Cup is approprite. I want this cheating to come to an end, its ruining the game. Ronaldo may have been a terrific player, I loved him. But had he not been cheating as much I would actually have cried when he left. When Wazza dived once I was embarrased, but thankfully he doesnt do it no more. Diving, cheating, these kind of goals/incidents ruin the game. So I say FIFA not to let France participate in the World Cup. Had it been any other contest, you know that they would have been disqualified for cheating! So why not? Oh right, its FIFA we are talking about here!
Bigger muppets are hard to find, but you`ve gotta credit FA for doing their best…
Banning France may be hard on them as it was actually Henry who broke the rules, it would turn the whole nation against him. Not letting him participate in South Africa would hurt him, but I dont think thats a hard enough punishment. Had he not done that Ireland may easily have gone to South Africa, so come on FIFA and do the right thing!
November 19th, 2009 at 9:54
Seems he learned a lot while at the arse.
November 19th, 2009 at 9:58
@Footy4Eddy: Mate, you’re letting your emotions get the better of you. If Henry broke any rule it was the refs responsibility to fix it by not allowing the goal. Handling the ball is no different than a poor tackle. Both cardable offences. Why would someone be banned for one cardable offence and not for another? It’s not like he took performance enhancing drugs. It’s the incompetence of referees. Lot of people cheat, and it’s the duty of refs to mete out punishment on the pitch.
November 19th, 2009 at 10:18
What is wrong with you people? What would you have done? Past 90 minutes, world cup qualifier, you’re knackered ball bounces up you lean into it, control it with your hand and wham your team scores. Name me one player on Earth that would then go to the referee and say, ehmm, ezxcuze me monsieur referee, mais i just utilizeeed my’ands! No one. Not Rooney, not Cantona not even Darren sainthood Fletcher.
It’s not Henry’s fault at all. And to be honest, given the crowd between the ref and where it was, and the posts/goalkeeper from the linesman, I can totally see how they both missed it. Which once again, imo, points the finger very firmly at monsieurs Platini and Blatter. And what do you think they think about it?
November 19th, 2009 at 10:23
@Beachryan: Cheating or not, the mass hysteria in the media is ridiculous. The topic at the centre of this issue is the question of getting crucial decisions right — and not Thierry Henry. Unfortunately, this will continue to be brought up every time something like this happens only to be forgotten in a day.
November 19th, 2009 at 10:24
I was a neutral. O’Shea and Gibson on one side, Evra on the other. I agree that a foul is a foul is a foul whether it’s handball or a tackle. I also agree that the ref should have spotted it (and the two offside players). Just because it’s the final qualification game, it’s no more serious than a poor decision in the first game.
I guess what was particularly sickening was Henry’s wild celebrations before reality sank in. O’Shea and Gibson earned the right to penalty kicks and the French will probably knock England out at the quarter final stage.
Now. Can we move on the Everton on Saturday?
November 19th, 2009 at 10:37
I am willing to concede Henry cheated and his reputation is sullied forever. But take a look at this video: http://www.theoffside.com/europe/paul-scholes-with-the-best-handball-ever.html
Where was the outrage?
Selective outrage is cheating itself.
November 19th, 2009 at 10:40
why is everone swamming Henry & not the match officials ??????
I am a united fan & don’t like henry that much ……. , But footballers will do anything to win a match (the ref & his guys are supposed to control what these guys can do)
So ……. as much as henry cheated, I think the blame should all go to the match officials.
Maradona scored such a goal & is still famous & popular !!!!!!!!!!!
November 19th, 2009 at 10:56
@Ole Gunner:
That Scholes goal proves the central point of my post, if any.
That wasn’t sneaky, cheating though. It was a blatant handball too obvious, and he got a red card for it. And United lost the match. Scholes was slagged by a lot of United fans for that stupid act. It actually isn’t quite cheating as much as it was stupid. There is sneaking into the house to steal someone’s property when the person is out of town, and there is barging into someone’s house alone when the person’s house you are set out to rob has about ten men in it awake. The latter is plain stupidity. And is as bad as a Paul Scholes tackle under the nose of a ref.
The difference is that United lost that match to Zenit and he also got carded for it. The crime was met with punishment. While it wasn’t, over here. In fact the ‘criminal’ got away with it. Hence the outrage. Although it’s quite hysterical.
November 19th, 2009 at 10:57
@RedRanter
That is correct, its the refs fault. Ive actually not seen the incident, just talking from the info I got from my friends. They say it was intentional, that he controlled it with his hand on purpose. My anger goes to the ref, of course, but I think us United fans have done that too often these last few weeks. Even though we have actually been correct with every ref bash… They`re still just humans and make mistakes, but video technology would be nice on these occasions.
November 19th, 2009 at 10:57
@Red Ranter: Sorry to say RR.. But, Normally I really appreciate the style and the way you write. But, I was bit confused about this piece… I mean there were lot of jumbling of thoughts I think… What message you wanted to come out wasn’t very clear.. At least to me.. Sorry to be a critic…
November 19th, 2009 at 11:01
Red Ranter,
If a deliberate handball is considered cheating, then it is always cheating.
If Henry is tarnished by his handball, Scholes is tarnished too.
November 19th, 2009 at 11:05
@Onkar: You don’t have to apologize for that mate.
I can perfectly understand if people don’t get the essence of that post because it was a collection of several thoughts in my head.
I could explain it all, once again, but right now it’s very late here and I need to be up for work. Remind me sometime later and I’ll clarify. In the meantime, if someone else wants to give their interpretation, feel free.
November 19th, 2009 at 11:06
I never liked Maradona… He was a cheating cunt, he took drugs and he scored a cheating goal on purpose in a really vital game. I thought he was a great player, but I never liked it. Pele I liked, other players I am a fan of are Ronaldinho, Zidane, Zola and Maldini, from outside United that is. Quality players, winners in the true meaning of the word. But always honest and loyal to making the game beautiful. What Zidane did to Materazzi I dont give a fuck at, because the Italian fuck deserved it. And it was not cheating by Zidane, far from it! It was just an emotional reaction to a sentance disrespecting his family. “I will fuck your sister tonight”. In the heat of the game, I think I would have done the same, stupid of course but its human! Ronaldinho may dive, but very rarely and often it may look like a dive while not being it, he just tries to dogde a tackle and gets off balance. Its not a dive, but its not a free-kick either. Just play on, he just falls. I understand that, its up to the ref to decide from then. Great, honest players, more of those please!
November 19th, 2009 at 11:07
@Ole Gunner: Fair enough. Then tarnished he is. But my argument was never about tarnishing people based on those acts in the first place. If you want to paint footballers in black and white with that kind of an offence that be my guest, but then will you tarnish the reputation of a footballer because he indulged in a dangerous tackle (or say he was just very passionate)? Both are bad for the game — cheating, and thuggery I mean.
November 19th, 2009 at 11:07
@Red Ranter: I absolutely agree with your point about referees. I mean it not players duty to stop by himself if he has committed any sort of foul. For that there is a Neutral who is getting paid to do that job we call him “Referee”. But, referees now a days are so incompetent that game is going to new lows every day.
But, then if any one has anything to say about them then that person gets whacking like never before from media, gets banned from matches, protested from union and whats worse his team stop getting any 70/30 decisions also in there favor. Just tell me in such a autocratic world where the Refereeing seem to be only job immune of any criticism no matter how bad you do one can expect standards to increase.
It should stop some where. I mean you either start punishing the players which will make them think twice before trying to con the (incompetent) referees or start reviewing referees harshly which will increase the probability of them getting correct decision….
But, you know what, those cunts seating on there asses with all powers in hand are not going to anything!!! Isn’t it????
November 19th, 2009 at 11:07
As a United fan i am not a big fan of Arsenal however, wat happened last night was little to do with Manutd or Arsenal. I appreciate good football, good footballers and i hoped to see a good fair game last night, reffed by a stong and fair ref.
In short the game was good the ref was good but he didnt see an incident that was of vital importance. As we dont have goal line tech we rely on human judgment and sometimes error. Did the ref cheat or not see on purpose probably not. Did Henry cheat on purpose or did the ball happen to hit his hand and give him an advantage? we will never know. But what we do know is we would hope as maybe Englishmen that if it was England and Rooney in that box, most of us would chose world cup qualifcation over honest fair play in that situation. Owen has dived for pens, others have done simular things to win games no?
If Fifa and Uefa are truely trying to make the game better they should do something about it if the ref missed it. Henry played to the whistle. But the governing bodies can blow up now and do something for the poor Irish players and fans.
The acted retospectively with Eduardo so here is their chance to do the right thing. Henry has already admitted it hit his hand but as the ref didnt blow he played on. We will see if Robbie Keanes comments are right or not.
November 19th, 2009 at 11:12
My point is similar to yours, Red Ranter.
The additional bit from me is that selective outrage is dishonest.
When John Terry fouls Valencia to prevent a sure goal he’s ‘cheating’. When Ferdinand pulled back Torres (though Torres still scored) at Anfield aiming to prevent him from scoring he was cheating.
We are either outraged about cheating or we are not. In the current situation we are a dishonest society.
November 19th, 2009 at 11:14
to hell with henry, france and their coach. lets wait and see how significant henry’s handball will be at the world cup.
November 19th, 2009 at 11:16
@Ole Gunner: I actually mentioned that bit too.
Henry cheated against Spain in the last World Cup, no one gave a flying bonk about that in the press. And example of selective outrage on the exact same person!
November 19th, 2009 at 11:21
@Red Ranter:
Eduardo dived against Celtic. I was right behind the goal, and I saw he dived. 1000 journalists & all of English football got on his back the day after (Thursday).
Thursday evening, Ashley Young dived twice to win 2 penalties. NO OUTRAGE. Not even mentioned.
If we want to clamp down on anything we label cheating, we have to do it diligently and universally or we ourselves are cheating.
Vilifying Eduardo while Ashley Young goes unmentioned is cheating Eduardo.
November 19th, 2009 at 11:27
@Ole Gunner: Even though I can see where you are coming from I have to that Rio and Terry analogy can’t work here. For obvious reason that the foul committed by Terry was more of T shirt pulling then and that too in the box, which wasn’t the case with Rio incident. Secondly the referee will be only called for when the fouls has been committed which has resulted in loss of an goal scoring opportunity.
Secondly there is lot of difference between fouling a player and Cheating bro. You are confusing the matters here. I mean what was going on in Terry Valencia incident was just tug of war which we say was a foul and Chelsea will say that it wasn’t. But, there was no attempt from, either player to con referee to take undue advantage of the incident. So, no matter what you say in my books it wasn’t a cheating no matter what you say… For me when a player tries to con referee by diving, handling intentionally then it will be regarded as a cheating. So, that why the analogy of Terry and Rio is bot correct in my book..
November 19th, 2009 at 11:32
Sport its all about bussines today. Big countries like France or Portugal are favoured over small (football) countries, with less money from sponsors. How could organisation, which is running qualification change rules before play-offs because these counties have to start in Africa.
I would be happy if all unseeded teams go through only because of this change of rules. At least Slovenia get it. Im from Slovakia, so it will be funny to have these two teams in WC. Even our flags are almost the same.
In this qualification, we have the same problems as Ireland, czech republic and poland was always favoured to go to the WC, and a lot of decisions in our games went in their favour. Icehockey is the same. Rene Fasler (CEO of IIHF) told that isnt good for icehockey when small countries like our are winning big tournaments. Last time when we lead the group at olympic games in torino without defeat, we got Czech republic in the knockout stage. Some questionable decision and we were out. So i think its comparable with this situation in football, particular Ireland. France have to be at WC, how many nations like to watch them. I think in Africa they are very popular and that mean money, money and money.
I dont like Henry much, but i dont think he has other choice. If he had told referee that it was handball. He will be sacrificed by his teammates, fans ….. He told sorry to opposite players and i dont think he could do more
November 19th, 2009 at 11:35
@Onkar:
So, in your book, fouling an opponent to prevent a sure goal is not cheating?
November 19th, 2009 at 11:50
John Terry pulls the opposing striker so the striker won’t outjump Terry. That is cheating.
November 19th, 2009 at 11:53
@Red Ranter: & @Ole Gunner:
“Incidents” such as these really do prove that the human element in football, as well as all other sports, is alive and well. Players are not robots that are syncronized to perform a certain duty. They have spontaneous reactions, or “spur of the moment” initiatives if you may, that can result in unappropriate decisions.
Now I am not defending Henry, nor Scholes. But I am also adamant that a player cannot have his reputation tarnished as a result. Yes they are at fault and there’s no argument there. And while a Kid fracturing the scull of another of his peers with a stone because of an instinctive reaction to something petty he had done is wrong, he still gets punished and here is where the problem is I think. Even though using your hand to assist in scoring a goal is not as extreme as breaking someone’s head, even if it does mean eliminating a nation from the WC, nevertheless it does fall under the category of infringment and violates the law in the game. Will there be any retrospective action taken against Henry by FIFA to try to contain and perhaps eliminate these incidents. Probably not. But I can assure you that players who have been punished as a result of cheating (e.g. Eduardo earlier this season) are more likely going to avoid another dive or deliberate hand ball.
Yes there are players who strive and persist in cheating (e.g. Drogba), but there are also players who have the sensibility to go out of their way and stop play in a goal scoring opportunity because of an injury related to an opponent (e.g. Di Canio).
All in all, both of your arguments are valid, but it still remains a game played by human beings where even the best of them can break the rules, hence; punishments are in order.
November 19th, 2009 at 12:00
@Nafooy: I completely agree. The serial cheats are the problem in football.
I think the notion that you have to foul and rough up teams like Arsenal to “stop them from playing” is cheating. It is trying to gain an unfair advantage by contravening the laws of the game, and it goes against the spirit of sport.
In athletics you don’t see sprinters stick a leg out to prevent the opponent crossing the finishing line which would be analogous to thuggery.
November 19th, 2009 at 12:01
Most players if not all act both inside and outside of the laws of football, just like we all go above the speed limit. We do it to gain an advantage and hope we dont get caught.
Intentional handball, shirt pulling, fouling, timewasting, intimidating the ref is all part of the modern game and could be seen as cheating or seeking to gain an unlawfull advantage.
November 19th, 2009 at 12:16
@Alex: Agreed. Personnaly I used to go over the speed limit when ever I can until I got caught once and was slapped with a massive fine. Trust me mate, I will never repeat that. And that’s precisely my argument. “Retrospective action” along with either technology or two more referee’s behind both goals can go along way in containing such incidents.
November 19th, 2009 at 12:25
@Ole Gunner: I did put it in very clear term that any act (irrespective of its a foul or not) whether preventing a goal scoring opportunity or not committed by a player with an intention to earn an undue advantage by CONNING (Fooling) referee is a act of cheating for me.
I hope this will clarify to you what is my definition of CHEATING. And I will always keep some distinction between Fouls, Professional Fouls (fouls which are committed intentionally to stop a goal scoring opportunity) and CHEATING (act of fooling the referee to earn an undue advantage)…
November 19th, 2009 at 12:29
@Ole Gunner: Sorry boss.. But if start classifying this incident as CHEATING then, I have to say that this a game of CHEATERS all around. And if we are watching it, and supporting it and calling it the most beautiful game in world then we are the biggest CUNTS on the face of this earth.
These things always happens bro they are just fouls or professional fouls nothing else.. Don’t be a confused brain…..
November 19th, 2009 at 12:32
Defintely agree with the article and Beachryan’s comment. Yes, tyhe cheating was shameful.
But I can also easily picture Rooney, Neville, Scholes, and not to mention many other famous British players who would have done the same out in the same circumstances.
I feel for the Irish but the reaction is bordering on the ridiculous.
November 19th, 2009 at 12:47
@Ole Gunner:
I think the notion that you have to foul and rough up teams like Arsenal to “stop them from playing” is cheating.
Again I won’t agree with this at all. This more of part and parcel of the game and their tactics. In this particular case Arsenal players need to come out and fight rather than be a pussy and hide behind. I mean come on the game is a physical game and you can not take that out of it.
I don’t remember anyone talking talking all this when Arsenal had all those physical cunts namely Viera, Keown, Campbell, Luaren (Ask Van the Man). No one used to feel about any other team or for that matter no one bothered about the style of play and all. Now, everyone seems to have problem. Its a not a case of others have changed but it is a classic case of Arsenal has lost all the characters in there team….
November 19th, 2009 at 13:12
Sorry RR, but I have to rant:
Henry is a fucking cheat. And Arse-hole; a disgusting player who broke the heart of a nation and some sympathizers in others. To handle the ball once is okay; it happens. To do it the second time is Maradona-like. To celebrate like he did is a fucking disgrace and he should be crucified for it.
There are no excuses and I think (and hope) that a player who was never the most honest but nevertheless respected has lost his place in the hearts of football fans with such a disgusting gesture.
If anybody tries to advocate for him and say that ultimately it was the refs fault then hats off to you… ‘yes I shot ‘im, but it iz the police fault zat I am still on ze streers because zey have not seen me do eet’.
No you twats, it is not the ref who should be blamed – at least not entirely because he might genuinely not have seen it through the crowd; it is Henry’s fault for deliberately cheating!
November 19th, 2009 at 13:18
Most players from all teams have or do – bardge or off the ball, steal yards at throw ins and free kicks, try to inch forward in the wall, dive/go down easily if they think they are going to be fouled in the box and also celebrate and claim a goal when the ball hits the bar and comes down near the line eventhough they arent 100% sure it crossed the line.
Many people would call that cheating others would call it part of the game and for the referees FA, FIFA and UAFA to sort out.
November 19th, 2009 at 13:24
@Andrei: But we dont know if he definately did it in purpose that is just your or our view. You had the benefit of watching it on tv but i bet u most of the people in that stadium didnt see it. I feel for Ireland and wish they could have progressed but they did have chances to finish of the game didnt they? Keane and Duffer fluffed guilt edged chances didnt they. I dont think what happend is good but if the ref didnt see it and lets say henry didnt do it on purpose what can he or we do. The ref is in charge of the game, he can give and not give stuff. We saw him change his mind a few times last night when he gave a goal kick then changed it to a corner. so surely he could have listened to the irish protests and awarded a free kick no?
Henry has come out and said it was a hand ball what more can he do now. I still hope fifa see thats its a handball on the tapes, accept Henrys confession and replay the game.
November 19th, 2009 at 13:47
@Onkar: Fouling players is against the rules of the game. Deliberately kicking your opponent is against everything sport is. It would be like a member of the Renault team crashing deliberately into the best Ferrari player to stop Ferrari winning.
Then I would come here and say that the Ferrari team shouldn’t be pussies. Crashing into cars is part of formula 1.
It is bollocks.
The fact that is ridiculous idea is accepted in British football is institutionalised cheating.
You are allowed to use all the strength in the world, but you’re not allowed to set out to kick your opponents of the park.
November 19th, 2009 at 14:03
@Ole Gunner: I agree but cheating isnt just institutionalised in Britian. Im sure uv seen the diving and feining injury in spain and italy. That is cheating!
November 19th, 2009 at 14:12
@Alex:
I get annoyed that British coaches and pundits regularly tell teams to go out and kick Arsenal. That’s what I mean by institutionalised.
November 19th, 2009 at 14:50
Why is my comment awaiting moderation? :S
November 19th, 2009 at 15:21
This is quite simply yet another in a long line of examples of the match officials not being up to scratch. I could bring up the countless cases of misconduct by the men in black this season, in the premiership alone; but no doubt there have been other misdemeanors committed by their fellows the world over. Yes Henry blatantly did handle the ball, ( i didn’t watch the game but was kept well informed by my Irish mates) but surely all this anguish and furore should be aimed at the match officials, who time and time again make incorrect calls. How can FIFA or Blatter etc tell us that no modern technology can be introduced. Yes i see their point about implementation at all levels of football (meaning i assume that every sunday league club would deserve a pitch full of camera’s, or my personal choice, ‘RoboRefs’) but they forget that the entire country, does not follow Fox and Hound Utd, yet around the world fans unite week in, week out (and the occassional Wednesday, if your from the red half of Manchester that is) to watch what is proffessed as the greatest football ever to have graced this planet. Perhaps I’m being to worldly about this but it makes great logical sense that modern technology or another 10 referees are required, otherwise outrages like the one that happened involving Terry Henry’s left hand last night will continue to take place, again and again and again.
November 19th, 2009 at 15:32
All players cheat one way or the other. It’s unfortunate but is true. The problem is that referees get crucial decisions wrong and this is terrible for the team that is in the wrong end of it. The only solution is video technology. For instance, each time may have 3 chances to challenge a referee decision. I don’t think that the argument that it will disrupt the flow of play holds much water. The flow of play is naturally disrupted when a penalty is awarded or a goal scored.
November 19th, 2009 at 16:03
@Andrei: It maybe Henry’s fault for handling, but good luck with the mass hysteria and expecting him to walk up to the referee in a high stakes match and tell him, “Monseiur, I handled the ball.”
Also, Henry has had a number of dodgy moments in his career, so he’s never been an angel to me. However, when the media use just one incident to define a player for what it is, I have to say it’s completely ridiculous. They are being far too naive painting things in such broad strokes of black and white.
Yet, tomorrow, they will defend Rooney and other English players in case they ever won a penalty by diving. I have a problem with this hypocrisy.
November 19th, 2009 at 16:13
@Ole Gunner: Wel come board an outsider…. Now I am recognising who you are and where you belong. I think you have lost your address.
Getiing back to your point bro…. First of all i was talking about the deliberate foul and I never said that deliberately kicking I was only saying that in my books professional fouls are not CHEATING. Just get it straight….
Secondly, as far as Ferrari analogy is concerened you are trying to compare the Apples with Oranges which can not work. Wrong comparison and wrong Analogy again just like the Terry-Rio was.
As far as you are saying that its been institutiolised in British football may I say that the team you are talking, defending and may supporting as well was also one of those physical team. I have already named players who were not very long back were part of Arsenal team. I mean just go and ask our beloved Van the Man how does it feels when some cunt called Luaren grab him by his neck, some cunt like Keown hit him on back of neck and then you will come to know that it was and will be a part of Arsenal team as well. As for now they are not left with any character so they are team of PUSSIES who just cry all the time ffs. Get real bro… And please understand that professional fouls are part of all the game all across europe no matter which league you are a part of. but, eglish game is little less technical so little more franatic but that doesn,t mean that others are without incidets or two. So stop that ridiculous comment that Arsenal is suffering a lot….
By the way just for record we have also suffered from this same physicality of the game. I mean if you have seen how much and how long the Ronaldo got man hadled by the defenders you will understand whath I mean. If you don’t remember what I mean just try to remember how Pentsile dealt with him and ou will get my point. But the difference between all the Arsenal Pussies and Ronaldo was the he was Man enough to came back and fight and made defender pay. Character which I doubt any of those North London Pussies have.
I think you need to get your facts straight before comming and defending those PUSSIES from NORTH LONDON.
November 19th, 2009 at 16:29
Haha.. it’s.. definitely been a while since u had a rant-ish post up, RR; and like all good rants, this one has no point.
Henry cheated, in the process costing a team, who played better over the two legs, and a nation, who haven’t been to a world cup recently a place in that competition. He deserves to be crucified and villified as much as the aggrieved and the self righteous want him to be.
Drawing parallels to thuggery is self-defeating, as I recall that Taylor guy being pillored by the media, in fact it was his manager that came out with that ‘he’s a nice guy’ lark. Eduardo actually drew a lot of sympathy from the media and fans alike until he tainted that acured goodwill with cheating!! Simplz.
Btw, isn’t it a bit self-righteous to criticise how the aggrieved vent their anger at a perceived injustice?
November 19th, 2009 at 16:37
@Gabriel: Eduardo received a small section of sympathy for his dive. The majority was an outrage that bordered on the hysterical. And it’s a well known fact that thuggery is forgiven in the English press over other things such as diving.
November 19th, 2009 at 16:45
Some old Arsenal, always cheating……
November 19th, 2009 at 17:13
@Red Ranter: the sympathy I was referring to was over his injury, not his dive. He blatantly cheated when he dived and deserved no sympathy, IMO.
Thuggery is very well condemned in the English press; and the only reason why diving attracts more venom is because it usually results in a game-changing decision such as a penalty or a sending off. Like in this case where Henry’s handball directly resulted in a goal that shouldn’t have been. It’s all in the context and perspective.
November 19th, 2009 at 18:09
@Red Ranter: unlike others, i loved this particular post, redranter – very understated but insightful and with perspective.
sure, henry played a ‘hand’ in the goal, and i feel absolutely terrible for ireland, but demonizing a player and defining his entire career on an act of madness is overreacting and going slightly overboard, i think.
would a replay be fair?
November 19th, 2009 at 18:14
@Gabriel: Oh no it’s not. It’s innately and culturally part of the English leagues to mistake thuggery for passion.
November 19th, 2009 at 18:48
As much of the blame is going towards Henry, I think this raises the flag that the officiating needs improvement. The one thing that pains me about football is that no one seems to care what actually happens on the pitch. It’s all about what the ref’s perception (what he thinks he saw). Put another ref on, use video replay for these important moments! Something more needs to be done to get it right! Or is this one of those times when football fans are basking in appreciation of the highly regarded “human element” in football? I think it’s a joke. At this point, everyone in the world knows what happened…the players on the pitch, those in the stadium, all of us at home, etc, etc, Henry was man enough to admit it, and the ref who knows he missed one can’t do anything about it now. But there is nothing that can be done to make it right? It’s like a thief caught in broad daylight but the Judicial System is not capable of doing anything–so off he goes with his loot. In American sports a 30 second video review would have righted the wrong on the spot! In world tennis this would take all but 5 seconds and it is corrected on the spot! Unbelievable…
November 19th, 2009 at 19:10
Great post RR.
My take on the whole thing is that although Henry is a total prick for what he did, the real culprit here are the officials on the field and the present rules and restrictions off the field that will not allow for instant replays or in this case a replay of the match. “Le Hand of God” is right up there with other shocking moments like the “Hand of God” in 86, Ronaldo’s betrayal of Rooney, Beckham’s red card vs Argentina and Zidane’s headbutt etc. The point I want to make is that although these events live on in infamy, they generally mean very little in tarnishing the superstar’s image or reputation. Maradona is still loved by millions and considered the best player or second best player ever. English may hate him for his cheating but they also remember his greatness and the legit goal he scored against them that is still considered the greatest of all time. Zidane’s moment of insanity is also something that many remember but nobody walks around saying what an asshole and what a traitorous bastard Zidane was to his country’s efforts. It all gets forgotten or placed in the back of the closet. Time heals all wounds and life goes on.
Now admittedly, I would be a bit of a hypocrite had this atrocity by Henry been committed against Germany, but then again my point is that all our individual feeling of resentment amount to nothing in the end. Why? Because in the world of FIFA, nothing is ever done to rectify an injustice and nothing is ever done to punish the culprit or culprits involved. Which brings me to another point of reaction and expectations? Yes Thierry Henry cheated and he has come out and admitted it and apologized for it. As much as I hate Henry personally (my least liked player along with Terry), what is he expected to do? In the heat of the moment he went and did something appalling. What he did was no worse than taking a dive, fouling a defender in the box like Drogba did to Brown or fouling a player with spikes up from behind. It was a cold infraction that should have been red carded on the spot. PROBLEM!!!! Nobody in authority saw it. Not the referee, not the linesman (Amazingly), nobody. Now I wasn’t on the field but until I was shown a close up replay, I never saw it either. From the regular tv broadcast viewpoint it looked like a legit goal. Human error because one’s viewpoint is obscured is not really an error. What we have here is just an unfortunate case of an infraction being obscured enough so by all the bodies and the angles that no official saw the infraction.
I really feel for Ireland. They deserved to win that game but just like the United vs Chelsea game, they still only have themselves to blame. Like United they had numerous chances to put their opponent away and never took them. At that high a level a team must be rapier like and clinical when they get their scoring chances and the Irish just made a meal of too many great opportunities. They were by far the better team but like I was arguing yesterday about statistics being for losers, out performing your opposition, having more shots more corners means nothing. In the end stats only count in one category, who scored the most goals? In this case, France won despite the stats, despite the domination by Ireland and despite justice and fairness.
What happened yesterday as unfortunate as it was, may actually end up being a blessing in disguise. The heated pressure of the media and Ireland may finally force FIFA and UEFA to sit and take a good hard look at the game and how to better improve it so that it can become a fairer game and a more honest game. Right now the game is broken and there are several things that can be done to the game to fix it but I will save that rant for another time. Right now I have nothing but sympathy for Ireland but I also feel that this moment although major will eventually be thrown back in the closet and life will go on. In reality, there are far worse things and far greater atrocities being committed in the world today. For us to be up in arms so much over an injustice in football is not only trivial, it is pointless. Lets worry more about our economy, feeding the poor, stamping out crime and improving the environment. In a world filled with far greater problems, football injustices just seem a little silly to me. As many people tell me to do so often, so I tell all them……….CHILL.
November 19th, 2009 at 19:23
@Kash: Exactly. Players commit fouls, dive and do things that you would think will destroy their reputations but people are fickle. In the case of Hnery he has done far more beautiful and artistic things in the game that far outweigh one moment where he cheated. He wasn’t caught and that is not therefore his problem. The officials blew this one. What do people expect at that moment, for Henry to go up to the referee and say “Sorry but this goal must not be allowed because I handled it twice to get it to my teammate? As noble and as sporting as that would be, we are playing a team sport here in the highly competitive and cynical 21st century. Henry would have been hung in front of the Bastille in Paris if he had come clean.
The pressure to perform and to be loyal to your team and nation far outweighs your need to be just and sporting. Yes it’s wrong but there isn’t an irish player who would have done any different had he performed such a cheating maneuver in the heat of the moment. I have yet to see a player, a team or a nation that holds integrity, honesty and fair play above the result and their desire to appease their country and their fans as well as their own ambitions and ego’s. So lets get off Henry’s back. He did what he did, but the real blame goes to the refs and to the game in general for being broken beyond fixing.
November 19th, 2009 at 19:31
You know, i’m finding these constant references to Henry admitting it was handball rather pointless. Not once has he revealed his intention, whether it was accidental or deliberate, instead he’s simply stated the fact that the ball hit his hand, something that half the footballing world knew before the match was even finished. It’s hardly a feather in his cap.
November 19th, 2009 at 19:33
@Red Ranter: Cheating happens in every minute of every game from shirt pulling, elbowing, diving, spitting etc. It’s part of the nature and social makeup of the game and to try to get rid of it although admirable, is next to impossible without turning the game into a 4 hour drudge match where the game is topped every twenty seconds because the new rules call for punishment. Eventually games would end with five player being taken off for each side. That is how blatant cheating has become in the game. Truthfully, I would like two things done in the game. Get rid of diving by giving players lengthy bans after video evidence has proven that they have taken a dive and secondly, yellow cards should be shown whenever and I mean whenever a player holds or tugs at another player shirts. Hands are playing a mighty role in the defensive aspect of the game or when offensive player try to get leverage on a defender in the box for a header. I really detest all the shirt grabbing in the box that players seem to always get away with it. If you called a foul for every time a player grabbed and held onto a another player in the box you would get twenty penalties awarded in a match.
So how does one get rid of it? Well how about no penalty being awarded for shirt pulling fouls. Instead, an instant red card or at least a yellow card would get rid of it. I know, controversial and hard to enforce but it has to be done. Goals are quickly becoming extinct in the modern game and it’s because of all the cheating and gamesmanship that defender are allowed to get away with that takes the beauty and artistry out of the game and limits the the options and chances of great players and attacking teams from scoring. Changing this part of the game would free up the game and make it more exciting and in the process destroy Italian football forever. Ah to dream.
November 19th, 2009 at 19:43
@Ole Gunner: Not really. I don’t even remember the Scholes infraction and too much time, too many games and too many fine performances by Scholes have helped clear that from my head. Do you think I remember Zidane because of his head butt or Maradona for his Hand of God. I remember Zidane for his greatness and his two headers against Brazil in the final of 98. I remember Maradona for his great goals and assists and for his magical goal that lives on forever vs England. The only time I can honestly remember a despicable act and have let it tarnish the player’s image for me for life is back in the 1990 World Cup when Frank Rijkaard spat at Rudi Voller. Yes I am a Germany fan but Voller could have been John Terry for all I care, spitting at another player for me crosses the line. If I was Voller at that moment, I would have killed him, career and freedom be damned. Their are some indignities that need to be punished. Other than that, nothing lives on with such infamy as to tarnish a player’s great career or image. Only if you are a cunt like Dennis Wise or Vinny Jones can a dirty act be tattooed on you for life. That’s because of a history of dirty infractions, not a once in a lifetime moment where you lose your sanity and cheat.
November 19th, 2009 at 19:45
Interesting interview with former Ref and United hater Jeff Winter. I happen to agree with his final comments about Fergie by the way..
http://www.sportingpreview.com/columns/315914.php?
November 19th, 2009 at 19:48
@Footy4Eddy: Hey mate, I take drugs. OK so they are prescription drugs but that is a mute point.
Maradona is the scum of the Earth. A drug addict, a cheater, ties to organized crime both in Argentina and back in Napoli, a crybaby and lately, a poor sportsman can be added for his foul mouthed tirade that got him banned. But man what a player he was. Truly a genius and without a doubt the second best player to ever play the game, and coming from me that’s something because I totally despise his very existence.
November 19th, 2009 at 19:50
@Ole Gunner: I’d call it more of a hypocritical society. I think we are very honest. Honestly flawed and honestly look the other way when one of ours cheats.
November 19th, 2009 at 19:56
@rysho: Tournament organizers do not like minnows getting in over giants. Its a marketing bias. The game sells better world wide when Germany is playing Brazil, not when Slovakia is playing Brazil. It’s not fair but it’s just an echo from real life geo politics where the bigger countries worth more money and more power tend to run the world economy. All the little minnow countries can do is hope for the odd miracle to happen like it did at Euro 2004. It is a tough world but that’s just the way it is I’m afraid and fairness although proper, is not overly utilized when money and power is in the way.
FIFA and UEFA at least have created a system that allows for more small nations to actually compete in the big tournaments. This is as far as they will go to appease these countries. Give them a chance to experience the glitz and glamour but in the end, they are expected to know their role and bow out when the time comes.
November 19th, 2009 at 19:57
@Ole Gunner: I’d go one further. The referee seeing the infraction but not calling it is even more blatant cheating.
November 19th, 2009 at 19:58
@Alex: Blame Italy for all of it. They have introduced so many beautiful things to the game. BASTARDS!
November 19th, 2009 at 20:04
@Andrei: I have to say this about Henry’s cheating. Nothing can be done or will be done to appease Irish hearts but one thing that can be done is to ban Henry for several games. A post game red card. Patrice Evra got a long ban for something that happened after a game at Stamford Bridge and where there was not clear evidence. Eduardo got banned (correct me if I’m wrong) and other players have been suspended after video evidence proved they had committed a red card foul even if the ref missed it.
Henry should miss the first two games of the World Cup for his cheating. The price you pay and the price his country should pay for their free ticket to South Africa. Now in my books that is as fair as FIFA can be and should be. But they won’t. After all, we are talking about France here. A team and nation that is dear to FIFA, Blatter and Platini. France got into the World Cup literally through the back door and they had to pick the lock to do it. That should come with a price.
November 19th, 2009 at 20:06
@Red Ranter: Exactly. Well said RR. Couldn’t agree with you more.
November 19th, 2009 at 20:17
Illuminati killed Robert Enke!
November 19th, 2009 at 20:18
Illuminati sent France to the World Cup!
November 19th, 2009 at 20:18
Stand up against Illuminati!
November 19th, 2009 at 21:25
I cant believe some people here think that Henry is not essentially at fault here. I’m a bitter Irish bastard at the mo so obviously I’m a bit biased but yesterday was outrageous. The ref had a good game yesterday except for that decision, he couldn’t see the incident and unfortunately neither did the linesman but for Henry to then actually shrug and dismiss what he did as mere nothing – its in his nature to con and for the ref to catch him. Fuck that. That is bullshit! I’ve never like that con shit, like everyone else, but that last night has really pissed me off. Yes we had our chances but that doesnt excuse him for what he did.
Another thing that is pissing me off is this attitude that the Irish should just let it go or as someone posted earlier that it is getting “ridiculous”. Well I’m so fucking sorry. This is a country that has done sweet fuck all for years internationally. And just when we get a very good manager in and actually start to play some decent footy we get fucked over by FIFA with the seeding bollocks and then that fuck face Henry starts playing volley ball in the penalty area. Unbelievable!
Henry said “I will be honest it was a handball but I’m not the referee.” Awwhhh, he’s not the referee. Whats he meant to do then eh!? I’l leave it at that cos I’m bitter and hate-filled. Need to calm down.
November 19th, 2009 at 21:29
The stakes in this game are so high that players will “cheat”, bend the rules or break the rules, so long as think they can get away with it.
It is clear to me that the modern game has long passed-by the ref’s ability to accurately officiate a game. Until such a time when it becomes a rarity for the officials to miss an offside, a dive, a handball etc, etc, this will keep continuing.
Even the post-match video evidence is useless unless an incorrect decision is overturned and the match replayed, if necessary.
The root problem of this kind of player behavior, the outbursts from managers and to a smaller degree crowd violence, is the ref’s making poor decisions that could effect the outcome of the games and hence peoples dreams!!
November 19th, 2009 at 21:44
@Footy4Eddy: You’ve been watching “Angels and Demons” haven’t you?
Unlike you, I blame everything on Bush, Cheney and vast neocon right wing conspiracy.
November 19th, 2009 at 21:50
@jpg: Yes you do need to calm down. I feel your pain and nobody here is saying that Henry is not at fault. Of course he is, but his crime is no greater than many fouls, dives, shirt pulling incidents etc that happen in a game. The real culprit here are refs and the mandate they have been given by the game’s governing body. They would rather punish a manager for speaking his mind in a free speaking society than to go after a player or team for winning on the cheat. Let me ask you honestly mate, had Robbie Keane performed the hand ball, would you be voicing your displeasure so much? I somehow doubt it and that is at the crux of the problem here. Nationalities and loyalties make the best of men flawed and hypocritical. It’s not like I haven’t seen Irishmen like Roy Keane never perform an atrocity in a match and not get away with it. Calm down and look at things from a less biased perspective and you will see that I am right. But still, never think that i don’t feel your pain because i do. Ireland was royally robbed yesterday.
November 19th, 2009 at 21:54
@Redrich: That is at the core of thie issue mate. Sportsmanship and honor has taken a back seat to the pressure and the demands the game and the teams or countries put on these players to perform and do whatever it takes to get the job done. I seriously doubt the French football Federation or Raymond Domenich screamed profanities at Thierry Henry for his crime. What they did is look the other way because the pressure on them to have France compete in the World Cup far outweighed and fairness, honesty and feeling of fair play and sportsmanship that they may possess. Players like Pele, Bobby Charlton and Euesbio are long gone. The game is filled with cynics and hypocrites who under the circumstances have to lower themselves often to the lowest common denominator to succeed. Money rules this game and from a financial point of view, it was vital to France, FIFA and South Africa that France go through.
November 19th, 2009 at 22:12
Actually I would be extremely ashamed if he had and I would say it too. With regards to Roy, very few have forgiven him for walking out on Ireland a few years back and we’re quick to say so as well.
What I’m trying to say is its not entirely the ref’s fault. Its an advertisement, sure, for extra assistants, goal line technology etc because he couldn’t see the incident. My beef is with Henry himself. He cheated, he has admitted that but denies responsibility by shifting the blame onto the ref. Bollocks!
Look I hear what you’re getting at but you’re asking me not to be biased which is impossible. I’m just gonna try and forget about it, nothing else I can do.
November 19th, 2009 at 22:50
@Grognard
Watched that movie a long time ago, during the summer. But got into a conversation today concerning the death of Michael Jackson, so I went to find some info about Illuminati. HOLY FUCK!!!, is all I will say.
Fucking madness, felt like I knew so little when I watched the vids. Mental, absolutely mental! So to get some more info about them, I am now downloading the Angels and Demons vid to my computer. I wanna find out more about this so called Illuminati… Apparantley they killed two of my favorite singers, 2pac and MJ. 
Fuck them!
November 19th, 2009 at 22:52
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvRI1VnQAEc
Part one of three videos, check them out. Insane stuff!!!
November 19th, 2009 at 23:02
One voice can make a difference, a million can change the world!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBKDZhu-EZw&feature=related
November 19th, 2009 at 23:18
@Footy4Eddy: Crackpot storytelling, sorry to say…
Its a well known trick to con casual viewers/listeners with incomprehensible jargon or inscrutable seemingly complex (dis)information to make people believe that something very important is happening when its just a load of bull!
November 19th, 2009 at 23:20
@Footy4Eddy: Load of rubbish mate. Conspiracy theories, and clever video editing to fit a story. Don’t get carried away with this rubbish.
November 19th, 2009 at 23:33
@Footy4Eddy: Go read the books (entertaining) instead of watching movies redundant with poor acting!
And be careful, or RR is going to chastise you for drifting too much off topic!
November 19th, 2009 at 23:40
@Red Ranter: Beat you to it!
But I do find it entertaining!
November 19th, 2009 at 23:42
@RedRanter
First of all, sorry to drift off topic. Just that I havent much to say about the Henry incident, and I dont wanna be left out…
I had conversation with my friends about this thing, it really blew me over. May be clever video editing, but its still incredible! Cant deny that? If Tupac and Michael Jackson believe in it, its good enough for me. The story is really interesting, gotta tell you its madness in my eyes. If not for all the sick proofs, I wouldnt have believed this in lightyears! Still, I do and I find it interesting.
Im very into these things, I like movies like the Da Vinci code and Angels and Demons. Movies like that interest me, because I feel they draw me into a topic about culture and knowledge that seems so impressive its impossible to understand. But I hunger for perfection, answers and if there is one thing I dont understand, I do everything in my power to find the solution. Its my nature, and whether these things exist or not, I will beleive they do until proven otherwise… 
November 19th, 2009 at 23:44
I blame Illuminati for France getting through to the World Cup!
Easiest solution, and on topic as well! 
November 19th, 2009 at 23:50
@NicoBARBEQUE!!!
Mate, Ive read Dan Browns “Da Vinci Code” and “Angels and Demons”. Currently reading his latest which is about symbols. I dont really like to read books, but I do enjoy reading books such as those mentioned, some of the ones from Paulo Coelho, Harry Potter(My generation…), and of course football books. Story books like what happend in the old Rome or the travles of Marco Polo bore me to death! I prefer these ones, mystery draws me into thoughts I didnt know I had.
I do have a wild fantasy, I get that a lot from the people that know me well, so these books/stories fit me. You said yourself you found it interesting, I was abolutely knackered and blown away! 
November 19th, 2009 at 23:58
@Footy4Eddy: Tupac – serious issues with paranoia.
He believed the other coast (not even sure which one he was from) was out to get him and made declarations on that. Eventually the other coast really took offence and we all know the rest of the story.
Jacko – bullied as a child, wanted to be Diana Ross, clearly some serious issues went on in his poor mind.
They were good artists in their own right (not my cuppa though) but that should not be reason enough to take their word for the end all and be all.
I humbly suggest: Look out of the box: there are so many great other great artists, who do talk sense…
November 20th, 2009 at 0:02
@Footy4Eddy: Well you read some books, which is more than some can say!
You should try Orwell’s 1984 – a bit slow and tedious to begin with, but absolutely rewarding when you’ve gone through it.
November 20th, 2009 at 0:09
@NicoBarbeque
I know the issues with Tupac and Jacko. But that doesnt mean they werent great. For the matter, some of the best quotes you can find are made by Tupac. When it comes to everything actually. His songs are brilliant, best rapper ever lived!
Other guys I listen to are Linkin Park, Eminem, Lil Wayne, Chris Daughtry, some random rock and hip-hop and some trance. I wanna find more RnB singers, so far the only one I can actually say I like the songs of is Rihanna.
Sexy chick, good singer and some good music. Jay-Z aint my style, neither is Akon. Ive got a very variated style when it comes to music, but I do like powerful and energetic music. Which is why Im such a big fan of Eminems rapping.
November 20th, 2009 at 0:27
@Footy4Eddy: Read the book. It’s so much more detailed and better than the movie. Although i still liked the film. And forgive my ignorance but what has michael Jackson got to do with Illuminati?
They did not kill him. Give me a break. If they would kill anyone, it would be politicians and religious people. People of great threat to them, not pop singers. That’s ludicrous.
November 20th, 2009 at 0:32
@Footy4Eddy: Few scumbags on Earth have I despised more than Michael the Pedophile Jackson and his entire brood. Although this is not nice of me, I’m glad he’s gone. The last thing this world needed was another overrated and outdated comeback from a pop icon who has been long forgotten.
November 20th, 2009 at 0:33
@Red Ranter: I flush more truth when I’m on the toilet. Just goes to show you that some folks will buy into anything. Now about those aliens who assassinated JFK!!!!
November 20th, 2009 at 0:38
@Footy4Eddy: I absolutely love anything to do with Ancient Rome. Too bad you don’t because there is more interesting material in ancient culture than in anything else. Ancient Rome, Greece and Egypt are so incredibly interesting when you get into them and they have so much to do with what we are today. Watch the series “Rome”. That may change your mind.
Dan Brown is entertaining but he is also full of shit. You learn very little from his books except about getting entertained and about the truth being so stretched out of proportion it’s not even recognizable.
November 20th, 2009 at 0:40
@NicoQB: One was a hood and the other a pedophile fag. They can both rot in Hell.
November 20th, 2009 at 0:42
@Footy4Eddy: I really feel sorry for your generation mate. You are being starved of any cultural and authentic talent. Instead the stars of today are nothing more than back alley poets and haven’t got a musical note in them. Sad really. The music industry is no more I’m afraid.
November 20th, 2009 at 0:52
@Red Ranter: I agree with the hypocrisy completely – you know I’ve disliked Ronaldo for years and I agree that Henry should not have gone to the ref to say ‘Monsieur, my bad’. But, he should have done two other things: 1) not handled the ball – he did and how he deserves what he gets – and 2) not celebrated; I mean, the nerve!
November 20th, 2009 at 1:11
@Footy4Eddy: Some rap I enjoy… (Not much, but here you go)
Dr. Octagon
De la Soul
Beastie Boys
NTM…
Gah… I don’t want to diss mainstream rap because I’ve never really given it much of a listen, but I don’t think they’ll ever compare to Bob Dylan, Randy Newman, Lou Reed, Leonard Cohen and others.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M17k3EFTWio
November 20th, 2009 at 2:13
@Grognard: Amen to that!!
November 20th, 2009 at 2:17
@jpg: He cheated because he though he could get away with it.
He was right!!
November 20th, 2009 at 3:17
@Grognard: Couldn’t agree more. Wait, now that makes me feel old.
Oh well…
November 20th, 2009 at 4:19
FIFA is as guilty as Henry. They know that there was a violation of the rules yet they are turning a blind eye. Does FIFA honestly believe they’re not accountable for such shameful act? Sadly the football pitch seem to have become a breeding ground of cheats and FIFA is not doing anything about it.
Henry shamelessly said: “Yes, I handled the ball but I’m not the referee.”
TRANSLATION: “Yes, I cheated but they let me get away with it.”
November 20th, 2009 at 4:43
@Grognard: I actually think that the term “cheat” is an exaggeration of the issue here. It conjures up the idea that one is breaking some moral convention, but in a way that’s not quite illegal but also not ethical.
It’s the ethical part that gets me!! Given the nature of the game, the politics that surround it, the dealings that happen between players and their agents, the blatant manipulation of the fans by the clubs and their pricing policies – to name a just a few, its shocking that we could hone in on this with the majority of our outrage.
This is a grown mans sport, and they are making plain decisions about the future of themselves and those that surround them. It’s based on the same economic realities that we all face every day.
I’m not supporting this behavior, but then again, I think it’s understandable.
We, as the poor saps, that are more emotionally involved than any involved party, react the strongest. We give and take depending on our alliance but always will react as if a blasphemy of our core ethos has been threatened! A moral indignation that leaves us aghast at the dwindling possibilities left for mankind.
Could we take all this away with the invention of video replay, making our outrage subside by the offering of clear evidence of the facts?
Well we could – but the real question is, do we, or the overlords at FIFA really in our heart of hearts want to be denied of this frustration???
November 20th, 2009 at 5:35
@hardredded: They are not turning a blind eye to the rules, they are following their own rules which state that the refs decision is final – and in this case, wrong!
It has become a travesty of justice, that any governing body in this sport can condone and support the malpractices of it’s officiating body to the point of rational exclusion!
Fucking bureaucratic dithering and conservative time wasting is our fate here, mate!!
November 20th, 2009 at 5:51
@Redrich: Actually, as much as I despise Henry, I think what he did was completely instinctive. In other words, he had no time to premeditated his actions and although he cheated, had he had even a second more to process the situation before he acted, he would have done differently. It’s one of those momentary brain drains we all have once in a while. Like when you explode at somebody or say something that you immediately regret. But still, even if he meant it 100%, that is what referees are there for and yet once again they are caught sleeping on the job. The bloody game needs to come into the 21st century as it still is stuck in the 19th.
November 20th, 2009 at 6:01
@Red Ranter: You don’t have to be old to have good taste mate. You just need to be open enough to open yourself up to the good things and not let peer pressure or let the media maneuver you towards the garbage. The Beatles, The Who, Depeche Mode, U2, Aerosmith, Queen and all the greats of music past are still availabe to all. Problem is, that young people almost always choose what is current and what is being pushed. I may not like Guitar Hero but at least I give them credit for introducing the Beatles and other classic bands to this desperate generation who are being forced to grow up with stuff I wouldn’t shovel out of a septic tank. Like Gene Simmons of Kiss once said. Rap is really crap but somebody forgot to at the C.
Hiphop isn’t music, it’s an attitude. And a bad one at that. Every generation has them but usually the music is better. When I listen to today’s music I realize how good the Sex Pistols were. And they really sucked musically. Hell, I would tolerate being locked up in a room and forced to listen to endless Disco as opposed to Snoop Dog, Kanye West and NWA. And if I sound racist I’m not. I absolutely love early Motown. It had musical style and class and the singers had soul. Now I’m forced to put up with the third comeback of Slim Shady. God help us all. These kids are going to be the ones running the country when I am a senior. I might as well jump off a bridge now.
November 20th, 2009 at 6:06
@hardredded: And yet what would you want FIFA to do, strip France of the win? Do you not think France would then be crying bloody murder? And you know what, they would have a point. Why? Because no team has had that happen to them before despite numerous bad calls that have historically screwed teams over. They would cry conspiracy. Human error cost Ireland the game. What Henry did happens a lot but maybe not so often in such a key encounter. Nevertheless, the system is not structure to replay games in situations like that. As tough as it is, life goes on and the Irish have to just accept things as they are an move on. Life is not always fair and just, and human error is part of the game. There are far worse things happening in the world than a frakken football team being kept from going to the World Cup.
November 20th, 2009 at 6:09
@Redrich: FIFA does not want video replay because like any political organization, they have an agenda and they are full of corruption and lobbyist power brokers who pay them to make things go a certain way. No minnow will ever get the benefit of the doubt or justice vs a footballing giant. FIFA wants the giants to win and the minnows to say thanks for inviting us.
November 20th, 2009 at 6:16
@Grognard: Grog, I am a Who freak!! I never got over my teenage experiences with them, and have played their music on the “stereo” at least once a week since!
My kids are probably into their own stuff (and I don’t really care any more) but when ever they come home they always bug me to play “Behind Blue Eyes”!!
They’re not all that bad.
November 20th, 2009 at 6:17
To all….
This is a hot topic which is going on since long now. The incompetence of referees is all for know. But, now I am really feeling that we need to get over it. Because, like Grogy has said in his last comment that FIFA don’t wish to do anything that will hurt there own interest. NO matter how bad things can get for now, they won’t change at least in near future. So why are we sticking to it??? Now, can we just get back to what matters more at this and at any point in time, i.e. Man UTD.
Common guys BPL is back after two week, get ready for Everton on saturday…..:twisted:
November 20th, 2009 at 6:23
@Onkar: I’m with you bro’!!
November 20th, 2009 at 7:42
@RedRanter and Grognard
Ehh…
Everybody have their own music taste. My friends listen to the likes of Lil Wayne, Souljaboy, Immortal Technique, Tupac as rap. Some listen to trance, some listen to rock. Coldplay, Butterflies, Beatles, Aerosmith, Black Eyed Peas… Trust me, Ive heard most of the music genres in this world and many bands. From the past and the old. None of you guys can blame me for liking the music I do. I prefer to listen to the ones I wrote above in my last comment, but that doesnt mean I dont listen to more music. I am very flexible when it comes to music, so I listen to most things. When I fee like just relaxing, I will turn on some Stereophonics or Michael Jackson. Yeah, they arent exactly the most relaxing to listen to but their song fills me with positive energy which lets me relax. My chicks listen to Indie Rock, but thats never been my style. I can listen to it, but its never gonna be the first one I look after on my Ipod….
Well, if you think my music taste is bad what do you guys listen to?
Might find something new.
November 20th, 2009 at 7:46
@NicoBarbeque
I think those guys make good music. De La Soul I have heard before, he is a good rapper but very incosistent for me. Im not saying other rappers make bad songs, but he is like, one absolutely magnificent song then comes one you wouldnt even want your worst enemy to hear. Still, his best ones are really good.
November 20th, 2009 at 8:01
I dont see whats wrong with listening to rap? Yeah, it may not be music directly, but it is really good music. Tupac and Lil Wayne have some of the best lyrics you can ever find, while Eminem is really talented when it comes to making words rime when they never should! He has a real passion in his voice, it fills you with energy. To like rap doesnt mean I dont like rock, RnB, pop or techno. When I listen to rock I usually put on Chris Daughtry or Linkin Park. MJ, despite what may be said about him, is a hero in my eyes. Brilliant music and a peace fighter. Best dancer Ive ever seen, saying anything else would be a lie. His music always had a message, a good point. Brilliant lyrics, accompanied with good music and a good singer, really great to listen to. While Jay-Z and Akon, some of the worst shit Ive ever heard. Jay-Z is the most stupid fuck in the whole world. He certanly gives Tevez a run for his money! Not only is he illuminati and nearly broke the skull of Rihanna, but he is the worst singer Ive ever heard. I cant stand it! Shit, just pure shit! Akon and Drake are bad as well, Kanye West and Snoop Dogg are inconsistent and 50 cent had a good period but no I almost never listen to him. I like to tell myself I have a good taste in music, why not? I like what I like, nothing wrong with that…
November 20th, 2009 at 8:03
Okey, getting so far off topic now that the next thing to follow will probably be how far away the moon is from the earth.
Looking forward to Saturday, my God how I miss Premier League football. Wazza to rock the baby against his old team?
November 20th, 2009 at 8:07
@Footy4Eddy: I’m not blaming you for your taste. I pity you.
Anyway each one to his own. I am more of a rock person but that’s a pretty broad classification. Anything from Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, The Who, Metallica (their older stuff), Pearl Jam, Alice In Chains, Lynyrd Skynrd, Nine Inch Nails, Tool, Perfect Circle, Dream Theater, independent guitarists like Joe Satriani, Hendrix etc. It is quite diverse.
Of course, a major anomaly to my taste — and this will shock a lot of people — is, I never got into the Beatles even though they are ubiquitous. Just never appealed to me although I’ve likes some of their songs.
If you want to listen to high energy rap/rock, may I suggest Rage against the Machine.
November 20th, 2009 at 8:33
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/manchester_united/s/1183152_cole_united_slipped_up_over_torres
Unfortunately I agree… Oh well, lets just get him when they get relegated!
November 20th, 2009 at 8:40
@RedRanter
Oh well, all for their own taste eh mate? You really are a Rock person! Didnt really think that, I always thought you were more of an R`nB person. Oh well, proved wrong on this occasion.
When I listen to rock which came before 2000, I usually listen to AC/DC, Pink Floyd or Elvis. Bealtes were good, but you know, Scousers…
i
November 20th, 2009 at 9:05
@Footy4Eddy: So let me get this right, you listne to the Beatles, Aerosmith, Queen and all the greats but you still prefer to go back to the shit salad that they are serving up to you today? I feel for you lad, really.
Your taste is your own mate.
November 20th, 2009 at 9:09
@Footy4Eddy: Rap is crap. I wish they would categorize it as simply rhythmic gutter poetry because that is exactly what it is. It has no significant musical content unless you are MC Hammer and you steal from Rick James or Vanilla Ice and you steal from Queen and Bowie. They are talentless guttersnipes. Enjoy them, I don’t really care but do not call what rappers do as music. Lennon, Beethoven, Mozart and Presley are rolling in their graves having to listen to that garbage and have it called music.
November 20th, 2009 at 9:14
@Footy4Eddy: It is not music, it’s back alley poetry. So you can call it great back alley poetry but do not call it great music because you insult all good musicians everywhere. The Beatles and Queen are good music, not Lil Fucking Wayne and Jay the fuckhead Z. I’d be sensitive to your musical taste mate if you had musical taste. Once again, do not categorize that garbage called rap with music. Enjoy it for what it is, but please, spare us with your top ten from that group because it induces vomiting. To think I had taste for the Beatles and the Stones before I was 7 makes me feel very fortunate indeed.
November 20th, 2009 at 9:20
These international break…. !!Yawn!!.. This place is turning into !!ZZZZZzzzzz……..
November 20th, 2009 at 9:26
@Red Ranter: Great selection there RR. For me my tastes go from the great rock bands of the 60’s and 70’s like The Beatles, The Who, The Eagles, CCR, Queen, KISS, The Stones to the new wave era of the 80’s where my favorites were Depeche Mode, The Sisters of Mercy, XTC, The Cure, INXS and that list can go on forever. I was not much into 90’s grunge but I have recently acquired a taste for it due to the scarcity of any music of quality coming out now. I love Smashing Pumpkins, Nine Inch Nails, Stone Temple Pilots and Collective Soul, Soul Asylum, The Goo Goo Dolls, Garbage and I love Guns N Roses . In the last nine years there has been very little but I do enjoy Creed, Green Day and I have a guilty love for Cold Play (although that does kind of make me feel a little gay or feminine inside
).
November 20th, 2009 at 9:33
@Footy4Eddy: The two classic rock bands that I could never get into is Led Zep and Pink Floyd? Just didn’t do a thing for me. I also thought Bob Dylan sucked although some of his songs sound great when other perform them. My favorite album of all time is gothic new wave stuff from the early 90’s band the Sisters of Mercy. The album is called “Floodland”. That album still gives me goosebumps because of it’s total awesomeness. It beats all the Beatles albums including “Abbey Road” (which is second on my list) and Srgt Pepper, Queen’s “Night at the Opera” and the Who’s “Who’s Next” album. I also love The Who’s “Who Are You” album. Lesser known but a really good record as is “Quadrephenia”. And finally there is the greatness of Depeche Mode’s entire library. Awesome.
November 20th, 2009 at 9:35
@Onkar: Relax mate, sometimes we talk about other things to get to know each other a bit. It’s healthy and quite alright simply because there is no footy to talk about. So relax.
November 20th, 2009 at 9:41
@Grognard
I wont deny its back alley poetry, but its still music mate. Im not exactly from the most classy part of Norway, I come from an area which is rumoured to be ghetto, and lots of my friends do rap, me included. Its not as bad as 8 Mile or what ever they may tell from places where they rap, but I do rap. I call it music, you call it whatever you like.
Queen? God no! Ive got a few songs from the Beatles, Aerosmith, AC/DC, Pink Floyd, Robbie Williams and Jimi Hendrix, but thats about it… I dont enjoy them all, but there are some which I like. Staind, Lil Wayne Daughtry, Likin Park, Black Eyed Peas, Red Hot Chilipeppers, Fort Minor, Arctic Monkeys, Eminem, Snow Patrol and Tupac is what you will find most of on my Ipod. Call it what you want, I call it music…
November 20th, 2009 at 9:53
@Grognard: I know bro… In fact I am enjoying all this stuff about music which is going around. Actually I know very few people of what you have been talking about. As I am from India English Music is very rare phenomenon (even though it is picking up in last few years). So, I getting to many new names and musicians here. So, actually I am not that bored because of this music talk. In fact I have no issue discussing something new i not an issue for me. I remember we were discussing Cricket last time around. So fine with that. Just that NO footy for more than 10 days is boring me to death thats all. Just to give you little perspective I only listen to Bryan Adams and Backstreet boys. Anything else I am not much aware of.
)….
Yeah, of course I like Enrique as well (Not to mention Ana Kurnikova..
No issues bro… With this discussion.. I am actually reading everything written here…(Even though I am not getting a lot of it) says it all isn’t it????
November 20th, 2009 at 9:55
@Grognard: But, yeah I am in Office… I just don’t feel like working right now and thats why I am sleepy….ZZZzzzz….
November 20th, 2009 at 10:09
@Grognard: I omitted a lot of bands in my list because they are numerous, but yes, Collective Soul, Creed (I like Alter Bridge too), Green Day (until they got all serious and political) Foo Fighters, Goo Goo Dolls, some of Depeche Mode, and Iron Maiden.
But then, there are a lot more.
November 20th, 2009 at 10:12
Oh no.. J S Park is fit again.. I hope its not same old story with Park on the on wing doing nothing offensively….
November 20th, 2009 at 10:40
I like the cheat talk.I think we have the biggest cheat in Wayne Rooney.The press after crucifying edwardo ignored Rooneys dive against Arsenal,and a foul on a kazakhstan defender which ended the defenders game and rooney was awarded a penalty
November 20th, 2009 at 10:49
AAAaaahhhhh…. Guess whos back with Rooney Agenda…. Its donibrasco…
November 20th, 2009 at 10:54
@donibrasco
Jeez mate, give it a rest! We all know you love Rooney and wanna marry him, but you dont have to come with your sexual feelings for him on this blog. Keep them to yourself, I couldnt care less what you would want to do sexually with Rooney! Its worrying mate, either go up to Rooney and tell him you love him, or move on and find another gal.
November 20th, 2009 at 11:17
Can anybody put some light on this player. Striker from French League. Where are you Nico need your help????
Name: André-Pierre Gignac
November 20th, 2009 at 11:21
@Footy4Eddy:
November 20th, 2009 at 11:43
@Grognard: Hey NWA are actually quite good, and that’s a rock dude talking here.
@Redrich: Their love of Behind Blue Eyes has bprobably more to do with CSI than THe Who imho.
@Footy4Eddy: No I don’t think you have (listened to most music genres that is)
Here’s some Prog Rock for you.
But truly, my favourite genre is Folk. Nick Drake. And no, that’s not the rapper going under the name of “Drake”.
Volswagen!
@Footy4Eddy: De la Soul are a band, not a guy!
@Footy4Eddy: Linkin Park? *BARF!!!*
@Red Ranter: Beatles – Helter Skelter. DO it.
Always heard that Creed was crap though…
@Grognard: No love for Immigrant Song then?
Oh well, I’m being very unproductive here. See y’all later!
November 20th, 2009 at 12:11
@NicoQB: Hey don’t go away just put some light on André-Pierre Gignac this player if possible….
November 20th, 2009 at 12:22
@Grognard: For authentic modern talent check out …
Oceansize – Ornament/The Last Wrongs
Mogwai – Mogwai Fear Satan
Million Dead – To Whom It May Concern
Reuben – Lets Stop Hanging Out
and for some utter madness….
Future of the Left – Manchasm
Mclusky – Without MSG I Am Nothing
@NicoQB: I love me a bit of King Crimson!
Sorry RR for not talking any football in this post!
November 20th, 2009 at 12:31
@Onkar
Gignac was top scorer in France last season, ahead of Benzema. Thats all I know…
November 20th, 2009 at 12:33
@NicoBarbeque
Oh, my mistake. I was thinking about Souljaboy…
November 20th, 2009 at 12:35
@Onkar: @Footy4Eddy: Exactly what i thought.When its another player,there are shouts of cheat,ban him,cunt,scum, but when its your own,there is no mention.Actually its forbidden to even think about it.
This whole cheat shit should be put to bed and let results count.As long as there are human refs,there is always going to be error or mistakes and one side will always be aggrieved.Ireland are no exception and it was laughable they were even thinking about a replay.
Our own players have done the same,like evans against chelsea,but we still complain about others.
Eddy please your obsession with being gay has been taken to another level but even if you are,rooney is butt ugly it boarders on beastiality.Check in your law books it might not be legal.
November 20th, 2009 at 13:01
@donibrasco: And this is exactly what I would have expected from you bro.. If you have read everything upto now you would got what my point of views are on Fouls, Professional Fouls and Cheating Bro.. I have been saying few since things yesterday wherein I have also came out and said the biggest culprit in whole this thing is Referee and as long as FIFA doesn’t take care of it the game will hit new low everyday. But, problem is you are a selective reader (I guess). You won’t read the whole thing and then you will come up with something which is based on just one comment or so.. Grow up man check the history of the boarder and what all he has to say about the particular issue don’t just look at the one post.
Secondly, another things which is problematic is you seem to have an agenda that what ever bad happens in the world of football you will try and link it Rooney. You seem to be very narrow minded for some reason and that mind is restricted to only one point that is ROONEY. If I am not wrong you are a C. Ronaldo fan and he was one of the well known diver so, you could have compared Eduardo to him but no that won’t fit the bill for you isn’t it??? You have only one mission and that is to ATTACK ROONEY.
See, I personally don’t have problem with that, but ffs just try and offer some variety, something new, same old analogy and examples with same old person. If you despise him so much why you even bother typing his name, try some other example and player like I said Ronaldo could have been used isn’t it???
Try something new buddy or do you lack that knowledge and quality to do so?? I wonder!!!
November 20th, 2009 at 13:04
@Onkar: Was hailed to be France’s own Wayne Rooney. Because he is fat, technical, a decent goalscorer, and has a bit of an attitude. Looks like a distant cousin of Frank Lampard.
Does not perform when played with the national team. Free kick specialist. Decent player but not world class in my book. Would do well in a mid table team…
November 20th, 2009 at 13:10
@Footy4Eddy: He was top scorer because of his free kicks and penalties. I always thought that a striker should be judged by the amount of goals he scores, not counting spot kicks.
Here’s an interesting factoid:
In the history of the Premiership, only Alan Shearer has scored more goals (260 to Cole’s 187). Excluding penalties (Shearer 56, Cole 1), Cole’s goals-per-Premiership-games ratio is actually higher than Shearer’s.
November 20th, 2009 at 13:10
@NicoQB: So a mid table team material…. Thanks bro… So which player in from French League you would fancy for say all our requirement name:
GK, CAM/LWM (take your choice), Striker….
November 20th, 2009 at 13:13
@NicoQB: Interesting, I wonder if we take that into consideration what will be the ratio for Vab the Man (RVN) for us. Cause, he has scored quite a few penalties. Still he was prolific withoout any shadow of doubt…..
November 20th, 2009 at 13:26
@Onkar: dude wtf.. which world are u in.. enriK, backstreet boys blah blah are so out.. even in india.. get updated.. its not tht india is short of music.. ur givin out a wrong impression.
November 20th, 2009 at 13:36
@Adie: I am not saying India is short of Music bro… All I said that English music was rarity in India in past. But I also mentioned that its catching up in last few years did you read that mentioned in bracket.
Moreover what to like and what not to like is a personal issue don’t you thing. Being not getting updated and all I think its not about upfation its about what ypou like and choose. To tell I even like Linking Parks but they are not the first on the list.
Do like Kishor Kumar??? RD Burman?? Or do you say that they are old move on…
If that is the case why we still keep on talking about the oldies like Best, Charlton, and Even the King. Why we respect them its because we wish that they were still performing which firmly suggest that even if they are old and we are updated up to Rooney and Ronaldo we still like them.
The same rule bro.. Even though I listen to others like Eminem, Linking Park and others what I like is something which may not be updated in your book.
But, doesn’t matter to me does it???
November 20th, 2009 at 13:39
@Adie: And for that matter we are talking about English music and to tell you frankly we are still short on that as Indian. Because we don’t need follow it as much due to our own Music industry which is very evolved and graced with lot of Talent. And the fact is I don’t thing more than 5% people in this country are interested in English Music so don’t fool yourself bro…..
November 20th, 2009 at 13:47
@Onkar: GK: Lloris, obviously!
LM/LW; AM: I don’t really think we need any of those players. I think we should stick to what we do best and that’s a strong central midfield and offensive wings. So no pressing need for an AM. (Gourcuff would be good, but this season’s he’s not been as stratospheric as he was last year.) So too Pjanic but he plays for Lyon so there you go – United tax + Lyon tax.
LW: Let’s see what Obertan is made of. And if nani’s recent performances with Portugal will augur better days for him.
A defensive midfield who’s touted to be the next big thing is Toulouse’s Moussa Sissoko.
Here! I’m going to make a prediction!
Toulalan is near his peak years, if he’s not already past them. Lyon being a selling club (to European giants) they will sell Jeremie “Sam Fisher” Toulalan to some european club (possibly Inter) and make a hefty profit. Then they’ll buy Sissoko who will be the next french/african hot defensive midfield hard man, european clubs will come sniffing round and after two or three years they’ll sell him with a 400% profit as usual..
Either Sissoko or Lorient’s Mvuemba. But Mvuemba was a Pompey failure so…
November 20th, 2009 at 13:51
@Onkar: 90% of the time peoples’ taste is music is the resultant of what the “general media” choose to broadcast.
When one has grown enough to make an opinion for himself of what they like best then they may make the effort of looking for music which suit them. But even that can be tedious and require some effort. As a fan of many genres, I read much about music from “specialised media” (in opposition to general) and even then I take things a with a pinch of salt.
November 20th, 2009 at 13:57
As the topic today seems to be French football. What do people make of Ben Arfa? A real loose cannon but promising and he could be bought on the cheap as he’s fallen out with his boss.
November 20th, 2009 at 14:02
@Onkar: dude i never questioned ur choice.. each for himself.. its just that u were giving out a wrong impression of the music in India… as for your stats they ain’t true.
plus u keep mentioning the oldies.. thats a choice u make so keep it to u.
cheers.
November 20th, 2009 at 14:18
@colver: Tosser!
November 20th, 2009 at 15:01
To all bloggers trying to somehow justify henry’s decision,bbbrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. I know cheaters, and this whole logic of lets blame the ref for not seeing it is utter crap. When as a player you step in to the field, you are expected to carry yourself with some dignity and integrity and play the game like it’s supposed to be played. I can imagine the irish, who stepped on to the pitch expecting to play a honorable and respected french side, only for 1 stupid ignorant wanker, to spoil what was a great game.Fuck henry, yeah I said, he’s a cheat and I hope his entire legacy is canopied by this single incident. So many of this so called great players lie and cheat their way to victory,I even remember messi doing it once. When they realize the opposition has got their number, they use every dirty trick to get a victory, how about playing footie the way you are supposed to play it, stupid fucks.
It’s even more annoying to hear the french brigade say theuy didn’t see the handball, for fuck’s sake, you already won, their is no chance of a replay, the least you can do is admit of cheating. I hated the french but it’s now gone a notch higher.
If football is to be played with an air cheating, then FIFA should also allow high tackles in case a player cheats, but only to that player. I’d have loved to see an irish player slide with both feet, stud showing and crash into henry, end that cheats career.
November 20th, 2009 at 17:07
It is a difficult issue. A deliberate handball in my view is no different from diving to get free kicks and penalties. If it does not lead to a goal people forget it. It is only when it leads to a crucial goal that people start complaining. Ultimately the rules of football are that if the referee did not see it, it never happened. Henry’s cheating is a question of sportsmanship and a sense of fair play. But football is just too big a game. If Henry went to the referee and admitted to handballing France could have been knocked out of the world cup. The entire French football team would be labelled a bunch of flops by the papers and the nation. The economy would lose millions of pounds.
I agree Henry should not have cheated. But lets face it lots of footballers do cheat. But once Henry got away with cheating it is hard to expect him to admit to cheating when to do so would mean his team would lose a vital game that would prevent them from participating in the world cup for the first time since 1994. He took one for the team.
But hopefully this does cause the authorities to look into ways to take away the arbitrariness of referee decisions. The decisions of referees should not determine games this much. Chelsea should have been in the Champions League final last year. Ireland should be in the World Cup.
November 20th, 2009 at 18:15
did anyone else notice that arsenal’s goal difference is twice ours and they have a game in hand?
November 20th, 2009 at 18:30
@bildani: Yep.
But i think that Arsenal have had a good run against “lesser” mid-table to relegation prone teams.
we on the other had, have had to play against top half opposition.
I still think Arsenal are to be reckoned with this year, but as usual Van Persie is having his yearly injuries. Our season will hinge upon how we perform against lower opposition.
November 20th, 2009 at 18:31
Someone posted this on ROM:
http://twitter.com/Ryan_Giggs
What think you? Boss?
November 20th, 2009 at 18:34
@NicoQB: Mate, my kids have been listening to The Who for 23 and 25 years respectively. I think your theory here is short sighted.
November 20th, 2009 at 18:37
@NicoQB: i have a hard time believing that that is the real ryan giggs…
November 20th, 2009 at 18:40
@Grognard: Calling rap gutter back alley poetry is a close minded and ignorant statement. And you can say what you want but it smacks of racism. I’m not even gonna waste my time trying to debate with you about rap because you clearly don’t know what your talking about when it comes to that subject.
Then you have the audacity to blow trumpet about the greatness of Elvis Pressley. Easily the most overrated musician of all time.
November 20th, 2009 at 18:49
@Johnsom33: I’m with you on Elvis. Rap is not my kind of music, but I think the spontaneous jam sessions of rappers are pretty good – I’m not a big fan of the manufactured MTV shit though. And I’m not being racist about it. Just so you know.
November 20th, 2009 at 18:57
@spizzy: How did those honourable irishmen feel after cheating Georgia?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf9fx4ipF4Q
November 20th, 2009 at 19:09
@Onkar: Am not surprised by your response,only the personal attack which i shall not pay any mind to.
To clear things my point is,there seems to be that kind of cheat talk whenever anything goes against the British teams because of the loud nature of the British press like Edwardo against celtic and tis one against Ireland.
The reason i bring up rooney is to bring the point close so you know thing happen every day in football we just react to what the press feeds us.
November 20th, 2009 at 19:10
Good piece. I thought, when people called his career tainted by one handball, what about the Scholes handball in the CL game? Has that one cheat tainted his reputation forever? Doubt it.
Even as they want a replay, the Irish uniformly say they wouldn’t offer it if the shoe was on the other foot, and no current player can claim that he would have done anything different than Henry.
The ref was at fault. But what could he do, for a play that covered 50 yards or more. The real fault lies with FIFA, who have refused to even experiment with a proven technology that is, let’s face it, the source of their wealth — television. Pretty ridiculous.
Keep in mind that it was a Barcelona player who handled the ball, not an Arsenal player, just as it was a Liverpool player, not a ManU player, who dived for England in the World Cup. Club affiliation matters not a whit.
November 20th, 2009 at 19:13
@Redrich: Ahh sorry bro, its just that most people who dig “Behind Blue Eyes” these days call it that song from CSI.
And I never really “got” that song to be honest. But I never relly got the Who, then. Still have to listen to Quadrophenia, which by all acounts should be more fitting to my tastes, but I was a bit underwhelmed by Who’s Next…
November 20th, 2009 at 19:17
@Johnsom33: @Red Ranter: tHe thing with Elvis is that in many ways he’s similar to the Sex Pistols. His greatness has more to do with his existence, what he did and what he represents, that his actual talent.
But ultimately he was a very, very talented performer. Don’t know how much of his material is actually written by him though.
November 20th, 2009 at 19:22
@Footy4Eddy: I doubt the worst ghetto in Norway looks anything close to Compton in LA, East LA or all of Detroit. In fact even parts of Vancouver where I live would probably make your part of Norway look like a paradise. You shouldn’t have to reduce your taste in music to accommodate your living standards or neighborhood mate. Think above that. If John Lennon or Paul McCartney wrote music that fit in their Scouser environment, they would never have become the legends they are today. And finally, I will say again that rap is not music. It contains only 1/5 of the content required to categorize it as true music. All it is besides it’s angry and crappy lyrics rhythm and percussion. It is devoid of any melody or traditional hooks and requires hardly any musical instruments other than a DJ box so that he can mix strange sounds and scratch records as well as a drum machine. It’s such total garbage that even talking about makes me want to lose my breakfast. Sorry mate but you are preaching to the wrong choir.
The one name in all of those that you brought up and that I do believe is quality and sound great are The Black Eyed Peas. And their version of Fergie is pretty hot.
November 20th, 2009 at 19:30
@Red Ranter: I know what you mean. I can list dozens from the 80’s especially, some that I would be embarrassed to mention because they are a bit bubblegum but I liked them. When you are 50 you have really run the gambit of rock and all it’s cousins. I have tried it all. Currently my new iPod Touch contains 4000 songs and it’s still growing because my MAC has over 10,000 stored in the Hard Drive. And of those 10,000 songs I could say that probably not more than 500 songs come from the past 19 years. That’s not a good total for almost twenty years of trying. I probably have 5,000 from the 80’s alone as that period in my life was the greatest. 70’s is well taken care of and of course the 60’s has thousands of great tunes from a relatively small number of artists.
November 20th, 2009 at 19:33
@Onkar: Which reminds me of a pet peeve that I have with the modern day footballer. Why is it they are so easily injured and can so easily miss weeks at a time if not months over an injury but as soon as international duty calls upon them, many are miraculously cured and ready to go? Why is it that quite often the first game back for an injured player is playing a game for his country? My God if I was a manager I would wring their fucking necks for compromising their club and returning for a an international but not for their club. They need to really assess their loyalties better and remember who pays them and who uses them.
November 20th, 2009 at 19:35
@donibrasco: What a tired old song. Give it up mate because nobody buys it simply because its bull. And it’s not because we are all Rooney fans or United supporters either. It’s because your accusations are bull.
November 20th, 2009 at 19:42
@NicoQB: Sorry mate but NWA is still rap and therefore they are crap.
And although I am not a Zeppelin fan, they do have numerous good songs that I like and that I have on my iPod. I just wouldn’t call them a big favorite. And although I like “Stairway to Heaven”, I really get pissed off when i hear radio stations always refer to it as the greatest rock tune ever. It’s really overrated. But then again, everyone’s taste is different and in music, one can diversify greatly from song to song. What I consider to be the two greatest songs ever would be “Hey Jude” and Bohemian Rhapsody”. Truly great rock anthems. I also love “A Day In The Life”. Finally, “Immigrant Song” is great but I never find myself ever humming to myself or in the shower.
November 20th, 2009 at 19:44
@NicoQB: “Linkin Park? *BARF!!!*” CLASSIC MATE.
And so true. Little white punks with zero talent and a lot of noise.
November 20th, 2009 at 19:49
@Onkar: Here’s the thing about divers, 90% of all players are divers when the situation arises. Diving doesn’t bother me when it comes to the player. They are taught and encouraged to do this. This is a football cultural problem that starts with coaches and owners who tell their players do whatever you have to for us to win. If clubs punished their own players for simulating or dives then that crap would end. Good luck, keep dreaming, it aint gonna happen anytime soon. And if FIFA or UEFA got stricter and penalized divers unmercifully, then that would solve the problem, But they don’t so as far as I’m concerned, they are basically telling players that it is part of the game and if you can get away with it, all the power to you.
November 20th, 2009 at 19:53
@NicoQB: And so are his chances per game. It would take Andy Cole ten chances to score one goal where it would take Alan Shearer 2 or 3 chances to score a goal. Big difference in class really. Cole was blessed with incredible service but was cursed with the inability to compose himself often enough to become incredibly prolific. He had great instincts and his movement and pace were always a threat. When you add the great service, he should have been the greatest striker England have ever produced. But he is far from it and his crappy record for England shows just how useless he was seen as being.
November 20th, 2009 at 19:56
@Onkar: What’s funny is that the two fans of Linkin Park on here spell the band’s name wrong. I think that is very fitting because Linkin Park is just so wrong. I call them Missing Link-in Park. Primitive Ape music for the masses.
November 20th, 2009 at 19:58
Anyone seen this??
This guy must have been pissed as f*ck!! lol
November 20th, 2009 at 19:58
@NicoQB: Sam Fisher? Does that mean he is stealthy and sneaks up behind players and stabs them in the dark?
November 20th, 2009 at 20:00
@Grognard:
Spoken like a true outsider. I used to abhor rap, but it grew on me hen I realised that even rock people enjoy the odd rap. You cannot feel indifferent to Run DMC’s “Its like that”. First rap song I really enjoyed.
There is such a thing known as Indie rap, which is basically rap that indie kids enjoy, in opposition to mainstream ghetto rap. THe wonderful M.I.A comes to mind.
And Black Eyed Peas are so feckin overrated!
November 20th, 2009 at 20:00
wait, here’s the link,
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Thierry_Henry&oldid=326715091
November 20th, 2009 at 20:01
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Thierry_Henry&oldid=326715091
November 20th, 2009 at 20:02
@Redrich: The Who is frakken awesome. When you listen to them, you “Won’t Get Fooled Again”.
November 20th, 2009 at 20:05
@Grognard: I wish but no.As a matter of fact Toulalan is just a very tidy defensive player. He just looks so much like Fisher its uncanny.
November 20th, 2009 at 20:06
@Johnsom33: Spare me with your racisism accusation bullshit ok mate. I commented on how I love Motown music and that alone should open your mind up about the fact I am not racist. I just think black music for the most part has enter the gutter the past twenty years. Too many black kids with anger and attitude and with no musical skills whatsoever except the ability to scratch records, and scream out ghetto politics in rhyme. Spare me with your indignation as I come from a background and a country where we take pride in our open mindedness and our inability to be racist. I also think Country music is generally garbage. I guess I had red neck white boys now too, don’t I?
November 20th, 2009 at 20:09
@Johnsom33: And I brought up Elvis as an example of a singer that millions love and adored. I personally think he was vastly overrated and rather tacky myself with those awful clothes and that uncool Vegas routine. How overrated was he. The fact that so many impersonators can not only mimic his look, but his voice says it all. In fact when even I can say “Thank you very much” and sound just like him.
November 20th, 2009 at 20:10
@Grognard: But Shearer didn’t have the movement of Cole and would not have had the said chances in the first place.
Also Cole, despite being a bit ungraceful in his movement, was a great all round player. The midfield could always relay with him and e is one of the reasons why in the vintage late 90s most of our midfield four averaged around 10 goals a season.
His assists stats are also very very good for a striker…
Always will have a soft spot for him as he was vilified by some during his time at United, while he was among the top three strikers in the league imho.
November 20th, 2009 at 20:11
@donibrasco: What where?. They looked the other way in a very convenient fashion. Like I said, they game has nothing but hypocrisy drowning it by the day.
November 20th, 2009 at 20:13
@Gabriel: I think I saw that on ROM… the c*nt!!!
November 20th, 2009 at 20:15
@NicoQB: Who’s Next is an awesome album and how could you be underwhelmed by “Baba O’Riley” and “Won’t Get Fooled Again” Both are considered amongst the greatest rock anthems of all time. One thing I still don’t get though is the title Baba O’Riley. What the Hell does that mean in the context of the song and it’s lyrics? I always tell people that it should be renamed to “Teenage Wasteland”. A more fitting name. Speaking of teenage wasteland, a good description of the music of today.
November 20th, 2009 at 20:16
@NicoQB: None of it. He had his moments but fat Elvis was just a sad disgrace compared to the young, vibrant far cooler Elvis that we remember in movies.
November 20th, 2009 at 20:17
@Gabriel: Seen what?
November 20th, 2009 at 20:19
@Gabriel: Yes, I wrote that.
Seriously though, I applaud the bloke who wrote that. Too true on all counts.
November 20th, 2009 at 20:20
@NicoQB: When I play the game I never really notice his look because when he talks the only face that come to mind for me is the voice actor Michael Ironside. To me he is Sam Fisher.
November 20th, 2009 at 20:23
@NicoQB: I made that point. Cole’s movement and instincts were world class but his finishing was up there with Jaap Stam. I think that almost every memeber of Red Rants given the same chances to score as Cole got would have scored more goals.
I’m serious. The guy was an appallingly bad finisher.
November 20th, 2009 at 20:35
@NicoQB: @Grognard:
I was in stitches while I read that!! 
Amid all the hysteria, misplaced self-reighteousness and excessive hyperbole flying around in the media frenzy over the henry incident, that was the funniest bit. 
‘Le C*nt’ 
November 20th, 2009 at 21:23
@Grognard: The fact that you refer to rap as “black music” show how open minded you are. Also being from Canada or liking Mowtown doesn’t make you exempt from making racist comments.
Just to be clear, I’m not calling you a racist.
November 20th, 2009 at 21:33
@Grognard: Baba O’riley and Won’t get fooled again are two AMAZING all time great songs. Still not enough in my book for it to live up to its reputation of all time great album. The other songs are not that great for me.
Bargain, Pure and Easy, Getting in tune all good songs which are not great.
Its just like a football team: Bulgaria 94 (was it?) had Hristo Stoichkov as an all time great and 2 or 3 other very good players, but for it to be an all time great team (as an album), all but one or two positions (tracks) should be at least great – 8/10 minimum.
Bowie’s Ziggy Stardust has a dud in It ain’t Easy, but all the rest are five star material.
United 98/99 weakest link would be probably Ronnie Johnsen/Henning Berg/David May centre back partnership. By the way how poor were we at CB at the time?
November 20th, 2009 at 21:44
@Grognard:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2IA27vACVM
Yes he was not the greatest of finishers. But you’re using grandiloquent terms to exaggerate this aspect of his game.
In his first two seasons he was utterly frustrating, but I think that has to do with the expectation that came with his transfer tag at the time *cough* berba *cough* After he settled down he was perfect for us.
He had great, and i want to emphasize this GREAT understanding with Giggs, Keane, and to a lesser level Beckham and Scholes.
RVN was a better finisher (and even he missed a few sitters) but had nowhere near the interplay that Cole brought to his team mates.
November 20th, 2009 at 21:52
@Johnsom33: Yes you are. And further more, what I divulge about myself on this id a fraction of who I am as person so I’ll kindly ask you to keep your personal feelings about me and what you think you may know to yourself. Putting down a specific type of music does not make one a racist unless those who are accusing me of that, also think the music is a black derivative. Smarten up and stop being so touchy on things. You are one of color and all you are showing me is an intolerance to those who do not share you similar tastes. Calling me a racist in a by referring to my comments as that is backhanded and low and i for one am disgusted that you would take my dislike for rap in that manner. I hate Vanilla Ice and Eminem as much as NWA or Snoop Dog. Last time I saw, they were still white boys trying to make it in a black genre.
November 20th, 2009 at 21:57
@NicoQB: Yes but musical tastes are so subjective. I may believe that 8/10 songs on Who’s Next are great where you think 2/10 are. I may consider 95% of all rap to be crap where Eddy or Johnsom think the exact opposite. Tastes are so subjective. The one thing I have going for me on the Who’s Next argument is that polls by radio stations and magazines like Billboard have always ranked that album amongst the greatest ever. I am not one who likes to jump on the bandwagon but in this case, I have to agree with them. Still, that doesn’t make me right or you for that matter. Taste is a very personal thing. I’ll confess a very guilty pleasure I have. God forgive me but I rather like listening to ABBA.
OK, let the abuse begin.
November 20th, 2009 at 21:59
@NicoQB: Having an GREAT understanding with other players and having all this great skill in movement and interplay is all great, but it does not take away from the fact that he started as a poor finisher, improved a bit but still ended as a poor finisher. His saving grace was his ability to find enough opportunities in a game that would net him a good amount of goals in a season and keep him out of Fergie’s doghouse.
November 20th, 2009 at 22:09
@NicoQB: Epic music taste, have to say!
November 20th, 2009 at 22:16
@Grognard: Can you please qualify your statement and prove that black music for the most part has been in the gutters? Some examples across the board would help
November 20th, 2009 at 22:20
@NicoQB: Statistics have no home here on Red Rants. Trust me
November 20th, 2009 at 22:26
@Jay wire: Now you’re just being bitter.
November 20th, 2009 at 22:27
I think we can stop with the music discussion. There is a mini post up preview will be up later in the day. Move to that thread.
November 20th, 2009 at 22:45
@Grognard: But I lovvve ABBA!!!
Unknown gems of theirs:
My love, my life; Our last summer; and many many more.
November 20th, 2009 at 22:46
@Jay wire:
November 20th, 2009 at 23:06
@Traverse: GAH!!! Where did that comment come from???
Was awaiting moderation or what?
Interesting indie, there will religiously check them out!
Sorry RR for dragging the music discussion, but now the Travman might think no one’s replying him when in fact this comment of his never showed on my thread. Anyhow I think the music discussion gave us some well-needed diversion while we’re waiting for normal football to be back.
One for the road:
Animal Collective. The best thing that’s happened to music since ol’ Radiohead!
(until traverse’s band put them in their place of course!
)
November 20th, 2009 at 23:10
2012- Wild, just wild!!!
Best editing to accomodate a movie Ive seen in my life! Shit was that immense!
November 20th, 2009 at 23:13
@Red Ranter: @Red Ranter: No, you are misjudging. I’m just conceding.
November 20th, 2009 at 23:20
@Red Ranter: Thanks for that….phew
November 21st, 2009 at 0:33
here we go, let me try and illustrate my point.
“I just think black music for the most part has enter the gutter the past twenty years.”
what exactly is black music? are you referring to music played by black people? or were you just thinking of rap when you made that statement? If you were talking about music being played by black people then it makes less sense. Black people play all kinds of music from, Rock, Pop, Rap,Country,Jazz,R&B, Techno… I think you get my point.
“Putting down a specific type of music does not make one a racist unless those who are accusing me of that, also think the music is a black derivative.”
Yes I agree completely, but what does that have to do with what I said? You didnt even name a genre, you simply said “black music”. so right there you clearly made a racial statement. We only know your referring to rap when you say black music because your only examples are “Lil Fucking Wayne and Jay the fuckhead Z.”
You then go on too say
“I hate Vanilla Ice and Eminem as much as NWA or Snoop Dog. Last time I saw, they were still white boys trying to make it in a black genre.”
Clearly from this quote you are establishing that Rap is a black genre. So your not just putting down a specific type of music.
“Spare me with your indignation as I come from a background and a country where we take pride in our open mindedness and our inability to be racist.”
Before I respond to this, I want to give you a chanced to retract this statement.
November 21st, 2009 at 1:48
@Jay wire: Someone’s itching for a fight. I’m not gonna bit on this one. Suffer with my silence. Just know this, black music has fallen mightily in the last 20 years from it’s lofty perch on the top. It’s days of great singers with soul and musicians and groups who commanded presence and respect to nothing more than a forum for gangsters and criminals to market their hatred and reverse racism. And if you can’t handle my attitude on the topic, I could give a rats ass. Learn to live with disappointment.
November 21st, 2009 at 1:50
@NicoQB: I know, I know, my shame and humiliation is at an all time high. But I used to like them because my ex did and it always helped me get laid.
November 21st, 2009 at 1:53
@johnsom33: My my we are just so defensive aren’t we. I;m not even going to bother. What is black music. Watch the Black Music Awards for a definition. It’s 99% rap and 1% Beyonce. Enough said.
November 21st, 2009 at 2:17
@Grognard: Dont get mad at me, nobody made you write those absurd things. You talked yourself into a corner and you know it.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I couldnt care less if you hate Rap. The beauty of music is that there is something for everybody. The only reason I responded is because you werent just talking about music, you clearly made it a racial issue.
November 21st, 2009 at 2:25
@Grognard: I also suggest you do a little research into the history of racism in your country. Judging from your previous comments, you might be suprised at what you find.
November 21st, 2009 at 7:09
@johnsom33:
November 21st, 2009 at 9:40
@Grognard: I’m just reading through your comments about rap, and truth be told you are just wrong. Really really wrong. Rap is fast of the voice of the depraved and if you want truth thats where you should look for it. I listen to pop and some rock but truth be told I’v never heard a rock or country song that ignites my passion for truth and justice. You need some schooling mate, Rap is fast off the only music that deeply embodies poetry in it. When you read about hiphop lyrics, it poetry at it best. Now i’m not talking about mainstream rap, the eminem, Akon or even that kid from linkin park who raps, no Im talking about underground hiphop, it’s not just music, its the truth and life being presented in a way that most can’t comprehend. Hiphop is filled with metaphors, that means an artist may say one thing but only those who fully understand the workings of the world will get it. It’s said fast and poetic, infact rap is the only kind of music that really has a message in it, all your so called cultured music is just bowel movement with some drum beats and a guitar accompanying it.