Aug 31
All three points as fortune favours United
Scott at Republik of Mancunia made a valiant effort at throwing a positive spin on Saturday’s result. Of course, it was a win after all, so, really, what can be more positive than that? And he did a good job of trying to alleviate certain shreds of negativism that may have afflicted a lot of United fans.
However, if you were to ask me what I thought of yesterday, I’d say it’s among the strangest matches I’ve ever seen against ‘big four’ opposition. (Yes, even the 1-0 at Anfield, many moons ago, felt different. In that game the win tasted sweet. Here, I really don’t know what I’m having.)
Having made pronouncements at the start of the season on the need for the likes of Berbatov and Rooney to step up, the return of the four-four-two formation, it was surprising (to put it mildly) to see Ferguson falling back on old habits employed in recent years when faced with good opposition. This was a home game, Arsenal’s midfield was unlikely to be as physical as say, Chelsea, and we needed to test a new Arsenal defence.
But Ferguson went with a 4-5-1 (or a 4-3-3, if you please), opting for Giggs to play in the ‘hole’. The first 45 minutes resulted in attritional football from both sides, and it took a gifted footballer, in the form of Arshavin, to create a goal out of nowhere.
The second half saw marginal improvement as Giggs stepped up his game. However, anything positive we had to show for was marred by Michael Carrick, who was very poor, losing the ball far too often. There were quite a lot of culprits on the day, and it would be unfair to pin the blame on one specific player, but Carrick stood out like a colossus of mediocrity.
I might be sounding like a broken record right now, but we lack the thrust from midfield, someone direct enough to not only run at goal, but also bring in the likes of Berbatov into the game as well as not be shot shy. But it showed yesterday in the way Rooney was isolated upfront.
Statistics will paint a much different picture, but there are a lot of intangibles that make a match. I will be doubtless accused of negativity, but I missed a spark I expect from United sides; something that makes us tick. [For argument's sake that person was Diaby on Saturday, but then...] However, I will take United wins regardless of how they come, although the aftertaste might not be necessarily great.
A few words on players that emerged with a lot of credibility: Patrice Evra has been fantastic this season. He had a slowish start, but over the past two-three games has been outstanding, and doing some of the offensive work we’d expect from our wingers. Nani seems to continue showing improvement and decision making, and I want Ferguson to persist with him. And Fletcher had a fantastic game breaking up play and was all over the place. He is limited in his distribution (and lost the ball on several occasions) but as a defensive midfielder he had a massive say on the result.
Ben Foster had a mixed game. He’s an excellent shot-stopper, but I am still to be convinced over his ability to deal with crosses. At times he’s dealt with them perfectly and at times he’s flapped — a strict no-go, for a defence that prides itself on clean sheets.
The match will however be known for some absolutely inept refereeing from Mike Dean who did his best to stop the flow of the match at every chance he had, and also tried to be the centre of attention. Sending off Wenger for kicking a bottle was ridiculous (albeit amusing — honestly, that image above has to be one of the iconic images of this season). However, Wenger insinuating that the ref was favouring ‘one side’ just because it was being played at Old Trafford has to be among the most bitter, thinly disguised tirades of this season. I have never subscribed to the conspiracy theory of referees be it on any ground involving any opposition. I think they are professionals expected to do their jobs and in their mistakes are out of their incompetence rather than any hidden agenda. But that’s Wenger being Wenger, and I wouldn’t want to waste my time with that. Arsenal fans have a right to feel aggrieved at the result, although I wouldn’t subscribe to their bleating about their ‘bossing’ of the game.
And finally, Rooney didn’t dive. He played for the foul, but didn’t dive. Almunia made a meal of it by lunging like a mad man and fell for it. I saw very little protest from the Arsenal players even, to justify debating this at all.
This ends part one of three matches that will go some way in saying what kind of side we are (I would still say we will see very little champagne football, and more “1-0 to the United” type. But let’s wait and see, eh?) Spurs and Man City are up next — with Champions’ League fixture in between against Besiktas — following a long international break.
Related items from Red Rants:
- Boro v Man Utd: Preview
- Gary Neville is a Red, he hates…retirement?!
- Chelsea v Man Utd: Preview
- So What Does United Do Now?
- Ronaldo’s Not Worth United’s Principled Stance
Tags: Match Reports
August 31st, 2009 at 3:30
Red Ranter, those feelings you are having following yesterdays win stem from the fact that alot about this United team is still unknown.
In the past when we were a great football side a performance like yesterdays would have gone unnoticed coz subconciously we knew that we were a good side and that to win with style was in our locker, sometimes we did and sometimes we didnt, we hit the heights some weeks and some weeks we didnt, but either way three points usually followed.
But the fact is, this team might not be a great side, we dont know yet, so for the first time in while we the fans are looking for something more than a win, we are looking for the signs of that greatness that we doubt are still there, we are looking for life after Ronaldo, we are looking for something to ease our fears that we havent lost a step and until we know one way or the other how good we are we will be scrutinizing everygame more than we usually do to find that something that makes a team special.
The bottom line is this, our greatness is being questioned coz our main man has left us and we havent splashed big to replace him, so this team must prove itself just like all our great teams in the past have proven themselves, but if you read my previous posts thats why I keep saying that to judge things now is futile, we will have a far better idea of our stading at the end of the season, its just the way it is mate, get used to it and see how things pan out, your fears might come true, or you might be pleasantly surprised and encouraged as the season rolls on, to worry about it now now wont change things.
August 31st, 2009 at 3:43
Nice writeup RR. There you go Eddy, I’m not the only one who saw a poor performance out there. Me thinks you need to take off those Elton John glasses of yours and see the game from the proper and realistic perspective as opposed to the happy and carefree one you are presently in.
August 31st, 2009 at 3:43
Macheda
Wellback
Anderson
Nani
Ljajic
Obertan
Petrucci
Diouf
If even half of these young players become top players and are added to what we already have got and with the addition of a few quality signings NEXT summer, then we will be fine, Liverpool and Chelsea are going to need major overhauling in a few years time, SAF appears to be starting now, so if we can remain competitive while we are doing it then it could be a very wise move.
If you can dig up the interview that SAF did for ESPN then watch it, coz I got the feeling that he is thinking long term rather than short term, in this department he is the no 1, so be patient and enjoy the ride.
August 31st, 2009 at 3:51
I forgot about the Da Silvas plus 2 or three under 17s that recently won the Milk Cup here in Nothern Ireland who looked quality, its not a quick fix but I think SAF has this in his head and after the teams that he has built in the past ,from ST Mirren and Aberdeen in Scotland to his four great United sides, who are we to doubt him.
August 31st, 2009 at 4:25
@Grognard: But I and a lot of people who aren’t smoking optimism drugs saw Fletcher’s performance as fantastic. So you should agree to disagree on that particular point rather than dismissing us as blind fans pulling cream out of excrement.
August 31st, 2009 at 4:27
@Fred The Red: I agree, but the problem with the long term thinking is Ferguson won’t be here in the long term. Not many people around share his philosophy. Who’s to say the man that is to step in is to reject all this and destroy this vision of his?
August 31st, 2009 at 4:29
@Fred The Red: I was fully behind Ferguson when Ruud left, (when there were big question marks over Ronaldo). That was because I saw a spark in the side that had me encouraged – and not many saw it at the time. I am yet to see it in the current side. Which is why I am more cautious in my optimism.
August 31st, 2009 at 4:50
@Red Ranter: I doubt very much that SAF will go before he sees his vision through unless something out of his control forces his departue.
As for the missing spark, the season before we won the league 3 years ago we were miles behind Chelsea and didnt even make it out of our group in Europe, not only did we lose Ruud to Madrid, we also lost Roy Keane during the season, the following summer we added Michael Carrick, please dont tell me that you saw more of a spark in that team than you do in this team coz that team hadnt gotten close to a league title in four seasons and no one gave us a chance the following season, the rest as they say is history. This side on paper is in far better shape than that team, so until we finish way behind the eventual Prem winners and fail to make into the knockout stages in Europe I will reserve judgement.
August 31st, 2009 at 5:04
@Fred The Red: I saw the spark in that side, because I saw the movement we had with Saha in the side. I felt Ronaldo will step up (if SAF managed to hold onto to him in that summer following the world cup). Everyone wrote us off, but I had enough faith in that side. Even now I feel we can do alright if we add a good central midfielder who can drive the team forward. I feel we have enough creativity but we do rely heavily on the ability of Rooney to stay fit. We will get past the group stages of the Champions’ leagus, of that I have no doubt. Only Chelsea worry me this season to be honest. I could have said more on this side if Ferguson actually didn’t accord Arsenal too much respect by not playing Berbatov. But now I don’t know. I will take my time before passing judgements too. But right now, I am not seeing who will take up the mantle of supplying Rooney on a consistent basis.
August 31st, 2009 at 6:05
Hmmm – a more balanced view of the game than I expected. Although being an Arsenal fan, the loss isn’t that disapointing.
I think Ferguson will be the more concerned today.
United didn’t offer alot really, and a stonewall penalty against Arshvarin and Rooney’s dive, and an own goal… not really anything United can claim to be their own work.
But what do you expect from going to old Trafford – the Stat’s in football hardly ever lie.
We will see after 38 games – but United will be concerned as they didn’t offer any questions, had less possession and chances at home.
August 31st, 2009 at 6:07
I have been reading through all the post match comments since Saturday. But, now I thought I would like to add a bit on the same topic now.
There generally consensus on this site that we did badly and there are people who would say that we didn’t. But, if I want to say what I feel I would just like to keep my position on the fence for this one.
I mean if you ask me I certainly didn’t see the kinda domination from Arsenal that everyone is raving about. I mean even if we want to say in first half I agree that they were having possession more may be in dangerous area for little period and they were passing well. But, hold on a minute am I talking about Arsenal when I am saying all this things then I think I shouldn’t be surprised as this is what they normally do with any damn team. They are always a good passing team who can pass the ball till eternity. Then did they do anything different to say that they dominated the game? Ans is NO. In fact if I want say the least I would say that in first half we were the team who looked like having a goal scoring opportunity more than that of Aesenal as we broke at least two to three time very dangerously on counter only to loose the possession due to problem in the final ball from GIGGS on all the occasion. If we say Arsenal had 2-3 opportunities when they were 1-0 (pointing to inefficiency to show our deficiencies) then I would say those breaks could have got us goal before even they could take the lead. So, whoever says that they could have been up by two goals I don’t buy into it. As there is big difference between could have been and should have been. And to finish of on Arsenal what they got in the end was one goal which was a long distance screamer by a special talent nothing to do with what team play is. So, that was a moment of genius nothing more nothing less.
Then am I happy with the way we played??? Not at all… The simple reason was our tactics. I mean I can’t imagine the gaffer can go for 4-5-1 in the home match against the (presumed) weakest in so called BIG FOUR. It was disappointing to say the least. I mean I would have love to see us going with conventional 4-4-2 and take the game to Arsenal which was possible as after 95 minuets there was nothing from Arsenal that suggested me that we couldn’t have handled them with the adventurous 4-4-2. I repeat that when he said that he is going blood in the youngsters in the team I was happy (even though I agree with GROGY and STEPHEN that we don’t have and that’s why he is hand cuffed) but then your youngsters are going to grow only if they play in big matches. I am also reiterating the fact that I have said few times that We need to decide what our best eleven is and stick to it. Secondly we have gem called ROONEY use him properly. I mean if you want to play him up front then play berba behind him or else if want him play as SS then give Mickey’s support to him but don’t just ask him to do too much as we need him for long season.
So overall if you ask me what I felt then I would say that I enjoyed the game as it was end to end there were some comic moments in our defense the best goal award should go to DIABY he just made my day. But then, credit to GIGGS for such good delivery in the box.
So, I am not ecstatic about the result definitely little disappointed with the gaffer for him tactics but then didn’t feel like we were blown away by Arsenal.
August 31st, 2009 at 6:22
Just had a long post…. But, I thought why not give some thought on the individual performances. The stand out for me was Fletcher (do I need to point out why???). The man was on the mission. The kinda player at least in attitude that, we are missing since the ROY’s exit (not comparing his playing ability with ROY as it would have been stupid). Someone here compared him with Makelele and said that’s why he doesn’t like him due to limited ability (I don’t remember whom as I read more then 400 comment so can’t remember what and who has said it) but, I would like to just freshen up things Real ‘the mob’ Madrid eventually struggled with all there talented galacticos when this fellow left them to join Chelsea. So underlines the important of such players.
Foster still needs lot of improvement (Sorry Eddy and Dan I don’t agree on this). I mean his decision making is just not top class. I mean what I know is normally if you are not intending to catch the ball don’t go with two hand as with one hand you can really extent your reach. So, first he went for the ball with two hand which he had no chance of catching. More over he almost touched but couldn’t palmed it away due may be lack of hard hand!!! And even if I agree that he has good reflexes and he almost saved us the match by that save in second half his dealing with crosses is just not right, Every time when some someone crosses the ball in our box I have my heart in my mouth as he is also indecisive about it.
Brown is definitely showing that he has just come from a long lay off and needs some time to get into the groove. And as far others like NANI, ROONEY, GIGGS and else every one has touched on it which I pretty much agree. Special mention should go to EVRA as he has come strongly in the opening matches this season after relatively poor second half of last season. And of course NANI doing some tracking back… GOOD on you lad keep it up. (Story of the season so far next star in the making…)
August 31st, 2009 at 6:37
Nice saying the exact same thing that we have been saying for this summer about the CMF…
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2009/aug/31/manchester-united-arsenal-alex-ferguson
August 31st, 2009 at 7:55
@Red Ranter: I don’t think Fletcher was bad but it amazes me how everyone seems to overlook his poor errant passes, especially in the first half. It’s not just about being a tackler and a ball winning machine. What he does with the ball when he gets it matters just as much. And in that area I thought he was poor.
August 31st, 2009 at 7:56
@Goonerboy: Can’t agree at all. First of all it was a penalty. I know Rooney played for penlty but still your GK was stupid enough to give it in Rooney’s hand. He made contact with Rooney no contact on the ball. It was foul in the box so penalty.
About the arshavin claim. People conveniently seem to forget one that the the same move which was not given as a penalty was ended in to the back of the net. SO in my view if that penalty would have been awarded that strike would have not come as play would have been broken. So, it wouldn’t have had any impact on result. And don’t let me start on the things that Arsenal does which can easily be classified as a CHEATING (Eboue yesterday remember????).
August 31st, 2009 at 7:59
@Grognard: Common bro.. We all know that he is our Makelele. He is not expected to do passing and all. That is a job of his partner. He is no OH forget about him being ROY (in play that is) and do all the things like passing and all. We are noticing bad passes by the lad shows our insolvency in the CMF area which we are crying loud for.
August 31st, 2009 at 8:06
Wenger is accusing united of being anti-football, apparently we have players who only job is to cause fouls. They are called defensive midfielders Mr wenger, they are there to break up and disrupt the opponents play, you should really get one of those to protect your back 4
.
August 31st, 2009 at 8:36
Firstly, I thought that was a very unsettling display from United. For me Arsenal looked far more dangerous and kept their width and positioning far more effectively than we did. The other worrying thing to take out of this game was the personnel that wasn’t on the park. United looked less dangerous on the attack and all the big names we currently have out are defensive (Edwin, Rio, OH) while Arsenal had attacking players (Nasri, Cesc, Rosicky) missing yet still managed not to concede from open play and create far more opportunities than we did.
The game itself proved a point I personally have held for a while now Michael ‘Sideways’ Carrick is not good enough for this team. In a team with golden toes he wasn’t required to be that penetrating tool, carving defences with a single pass because that boy did it all himself and allowed Carrick to hold his ground and just distribute the ball around with simple passes. For me that is the role of a holding midfielder either OH(who I think is the best footballer in our squad) or Fletcher, not someone who was bought as an attacking midfielder. I was quite supportive of buying Diego(was my favourite Bundesliga player) from Werder, but alas he goes to Juventus and coincidentally plays exactly that type of game we need from our ACM against Roma, a genuine European team. We need a spark player in the midfield. Carrick needs to sold/shoot I don’t care but a Modric/Diego play maker type player needs to come in or this is going to be a very long season for United fans who had better have lowered there expectations than when we had a certain someone who would mask over any of our gaping holes with a cheeky cut in and rocket to the bottom corner.
The fact that at times Fletcher seemed to be our attacking fulcrum on Saturday should have sent shivers down any United fans as time and again Giggs gave the ball away, slowed attacking breaks or just generally seemed to be out of his depth. Why we didn’t play Berbatov is a question for the big man, but a Rooney-Berbatov combination would have been exactly the medicine needed against Arsenal where Berba could have held the ball up for Rooney to run at an Arsenal defence that doesn’t have mind blowing pace through their CB’s instead of getting pushed square by a very intelligent world cup winning player (when he is not kicking advertising) Willie Gallas. Rooney was left to much to do, and the fact that this team has points in the bag is entirely thanks to this man, not a good thing 1) his temperament 2) Injury history 3) Pressure.
Loved your recognition of Evra, he is a supreme athlete with the distance he covers. His attacking play is without question so vital and he combined with Ronaldo at times to form one of the best attacking sides in Europe (maybe only level with Lahm & Ribery and Messi & Alves). But on Saturday his defensive work was exceptional highlighted by his block on RVP who rarely misses when it’s on his left.
United looked like a team who will prove to be to strong for most teams in the league, just through a glimpse of brilliance from Rooney Berba or co, but not a cohesive enough unit to really challenge a team with any form of substance. I think Chelsea will win the league, and actually may do the double, though Barca and RM may have something to say and a certain Italian team carried by an under-rated Braziallian may cause them some problems.
August 31st, 2009 at 8:42
@Red Ranter: Nani, Nani, Nani
.
August 31st, 2009 at 8:45
@spizzy: Typical WENGER. SORE LOOSER..
August 31st, 2009 at 9:35
RedRanter – Quote, “Arsenal fans have a right to feel agrieved.” How so do they have a RIGHT to feel agrieved?
1. Their GK had a rush of blood to the head, and went into Rooney like a Rugby league player! It was a clear penalty, and more power to Rooney’s elbow for stepping up and taking it. So no aggrievement there.
. And don’t give me that old ‘we were lucky’ chestnut. Rooney, Mad Pat, Vida, Fletch, Nani, fought like fuck for us, and Brown and O’Shea did all they could too. Le Arse were just sickened because they weren’t facing Everton, Celtic and the other team they steam rollered over. Our lot wouldn’t let them steamroller us. Le Arse – TV pundits saying long time since they lost, well it always seems to be against United they lose. That tells me something.
2. Giggs part that led to our gifted goal from Diaby, shouldn’t be underestimated. That king of inswinging, rocket like ball into the box, was so good, that it will bring about defensive mistakes IF the defender doesn’t deal with it properly, as Diaby didn’t. Our players at least recognised Giggs part in that by surrounding him with congratulations.
3. Arsenal had there opportunities, but weren’t able to capitalise on the day. I don’t go along with the thought that Van Persie was unlucky. I do go along with the thought that Foster made at least 2 great saves to keep him out, and keep us in the game.
4. They had no grounds for crying about our aggresive tackling either, because they were dishing it out a bit themselves. What did they think we were just going to sit back, and admire their free flowing football. Fletch, Evra and Vida in particular, had very different ideas. GO FLETCH.
5. Arsenal had every opportunity to do a job on us yesterday. We had Vida and Wes just back from injury and not match sharp. We were carrying also at least 3 player passengers who were hindrance to us, and help to Le Arse – Powder Puff Valencia (offers nothing when oppo defender is speedy as him), hope this improves eventually and he gets other dimensions to his game. Carrick and Giggsy were so inefficient in MF, and barely could get a ball to a player in a red shirt. So Arsenal will NEVER get a better chance. They weren’t good enough obviously against a United team who many of you think were WOEFUL
So to me, they have no case for grievance at all. So let them stew in their own juice, I’m not gonna feel sorry for that lot.
August 31st, 2009 at 9:54
Red Ranter,
That is one of the best football related photos I’ve ever seen :0).
I’m not sure if I agree with your comments about “Fergie’s vision”, can you explain what that means by definition? I presume you’re referring to his comments from last season when he stated “this was the best group of players he’d ever worked with…(or words to that effect?)”. That is IMO is a complete nonsense, so much so that without the addition of a quality central midfield player and a proper striker we are going to struggle to finish in the top four this season and of course it’s probably too late to sign anyone now.
Fergie could learn a lot from looking at the job Hughes has done at City. Everyone goes on about all the money, which is obviously a very important factor in that rebuilding process. However, if you compare our squad with City’s, it should have been a lot easier for Ferguson to rebuild this summer because for one thing our defence was already in place. Hughes has completely rebuilt his team from front to back. If we accept that Fergie only had to sign a couple of players then what does that say about our manager’s work this summer? Adebayor and Barry were Hughes key signings IMO, they would have been excellent signings for United too.
The early season fixtures were kind to United, possibly too kind (it didn’t stop us from looking like a third rate team at Burnley though) perhaps we needed a good hammering to awake Fergie from his post Ronaldo dreaming.
This could well turn out to be a defining season for Ferguson, I don’t see him being around much longer.
August 31st, 2009 at 10:00
@Craig Mc: Absolutely..
I mean just nicely summed up for me…
The bottomline is ‘They were not good enough’ to beat even so so called WOEFUL Man UTD. Then they cry foul cry… I mean so typical of ARSENAL…
August 31st, 2009 at 10:03
United won’t be so lucky against other leading contenders… you can bank on that.
August 31st, 2009 at 10:03
@James Ryddel: No matter what happens this season mate.. He still won’t be around too much longer… And matter what happenes this season when he will go (eventually) it will still be very sad day in the UNITED HISTORY…
August 31st, 2009 at 10:04
@James Ryddel: Who are they so called LEADING CONTENDERS???? Spurs? SHITTY? LOOSERPOOL? or Chelsea??? Just let is know buddy…
August 31st, 2009 at 10:11
Leading contenders are those in the top four. City and Spurs aspire to be within that group. It’s too early to be writing off either of them. Liverpool will get better as the season goes on, but like United they look short of ideas right now. The performances against Burnley and Arsenal should concern United fans.
August 31st, 2009 at 10:20
@James Ryddel:
Thats the problem with Team like UNITED. There fan club is such that they have confidence in the ability of the other teams like LOOSERPOOL will get better and have no confidence about UNITED itself.
If you say CHELSEA then fine but you talked about all others but CHELSEA as contenders. And surprisingly enough you feel that the Team which has already lost two matches and won a scrappy (typical pool way) against 10 men bolton (not surprisingly they were playing against 10 men) will improve and UNITED are playing shit and they are in trouble then….
I think you are smart enough to know what I mean…..
August 31st, 2009 at 10:23
Given that also I agree 100% that Chelsea has more chance than any other team to register their name on the TROPHY (unless they end up like last year playing Manager Manager ngame).
For me the SECOND team which can be a threat is Arsenal (even though they lost against us) as they are too good for most of the team. But, LOOSERPOOL I wont agree given there current problem…
August 31st, 2009 at 10:25
If united are bad, liverpool are woeful, I still don’t tolerate the kind of performance put out on saturday, but 1 thing i know, liverpool wont cause us too much trouble, even with the mediocre performances united are displaying we are still better than liverpool.
Our greatest test and where i think we will be torn to shreds is at the champions league.
August 31st, 2009 at 10:35
@spizzy: Agreed.. Thats why said it very clearly that CHELSEA seems like the TEAM today. Secondly, poor performances are never accepted…
But, the whole point I was trying to make was some fans are under DILUSION or of a mindset that RIVALS are always better or if they are not then they are the one who will improve.
August 31st, 2009 at 10:41
FWIW: Before a ball was kicked this season I predicted Chelsea would win the title, that view hasn’t changed. United will struggle to finish in the top four, my pre-season prediction was actually 3rd. I’m starting to have doubts about that happening. I agree Liverpool are playing awful, Gerrard looks tired, he gave everything he had last season in a vain attempt to deny United and I could be wrong but I think he’s suffering for his efforts from last season and before anyone tells me I realise how ridiculous that sounds, him being a top professional etc. Livperool have lost Alonso too and of course he was a big player for them.
Before the season started everyone wondered how quickly Hughes would be able to reshape City, but the early signs look very encouraging for them. As much as I despise Harry Redknapp (and I really do), he looks to be doing a decent job for Spurs, but the loss of Modric will I predict hurt them, that injury was very good news for United..and very timely too.
I’m honestly not sure how the top four will finish (no one can be at this stage) what I will say is thank f*** for Chelsea and I never thought I’d say that because if we are going to struggle, as I fear we will, then it is be hoped they stop those bitter blue ****s from winning the title.
Regarding Arsenal, I’m certain they will finish in the top four, I can see them finishing runner-up.
August 31st, 2009 at 10:45
Anyone think the manutd.com website is just a publicity front for the club, its blindly biased and unobjective.
August 31st, 2009 at 10:53
@Grognard: Most, if not all people agree that Arsenal were the better side on the day. But what many of us are trying to point out is the fact that Arsenal weren’t as good as the media, or their their fans try to pass them to be.
Anyway, our real measure of strength is against mid-table opposition. If we are poor against them then there is indeed a cause for worry. But its early days, and we also have to deal with Fergie’s occasionally baffling team selection so…
August 31st, 2009 at 11:05
@NicoQB: Thats precisely what i wrote in that very long post. After reading most of the media report and of course many people on this site you feel as if they dominated us to the death and we still managed to escape. But, it wasn’t the case. We did play badly but it was never as much domination as it is made out by many.
August 31st, 2009 at 11:08
@NicoQB: This is the 1st time Le Arse have come up against another top 4 team. Once again they have come short of winning. Fan-fucking-tastic, well not so fan-fucking-tastic where some United fans are concerned
.
August 31st, 2009 at 11:08
As one of many United fans I am also worried. Its apparent to everyone that our midfield is not good enough and we need someone who can turn a game with a brilliant pass or mazy run through the opposition defense. Why SAF hasn’t spent some of the Ronaldo money we can only speculate.Yes we won on Saturday but it also showed, especially in the first half, that against a team like Chelsea we will be made to look very poor.
SAF reliance on Giggs and Scholes shows me lots. These have been excellent for United in the passed but they are coming to the end of their careers and we don’t have anyone to take over from them. Its too late now to get someone in and I’m afraid that January will be too late to change the team into Championship winners. We will finish in the top 4 that I have no doubt but not winning it is not acceptable
August 31st, 2009 at 11:08
@spizzy: Welcome to the real world mate!
August 31st, 2009 at 11:08
At half time after some badgering from some ABUs, i ran across to the bookies and put some money on United 2-1 @ 7/1 and United 3-1 @ 25/1(oh Berba!!) Happy Days
August 31st, 2009 at 11:10
@Goonerboy: Just a few holes in your logic there goonerboy…. After the Eduardo ‘incident’ I thought you would be able to recognise a dive. Rooney ‘played for it’, agreed, meaning he knew getting to the ball before Almunia (who was doing what there exactly?) that he would get clattered and win a penalty. Eduardo did the same thing, except he didn’t get touched and went down anyway. Thats the difference between cheating and smart football. I’m not even going to get into Eboue…..
Arsenal played the better football and lost. It’s something of a familiar story over the last 4 years.
August 31st, 2009 at 11:11
@NicoQB: I don’t agree that Le Arse were the better team on the day
. I think it was 50-50! Good end to end stuff.
August 31st, 2009 at 11:13
@Phoenix Red: Hahaha – so you made a few bob off the 2-1 score then
.
August 31st, 2009 at 11:17
Fred like I said in the other post:
Yes we have all these youngsters but I really do not see Fergie playing them. He seems intent on rotating Giggs and Scholes and keeping faith in Michael Carrick. As for strikers to keep Rooney, Berbatov and Owen happy there aren’t going to be that many games for Macheda and Welbeck outside of the domestic cups. We do need our youngsters to make leaps and bounds but that can only happen if we play them regularly.
Even a talent as great as Ronaldo only became a top player at around 21. So it is unfair to expect too much from 18 year olds like Ljajic, Macheda, etc. They may be long term solutions but it will be a good few years before they shine for us.
August 31st, 2009 at 11:17
@pjch: Chelsea didn’t make us look poor at Wembley mate, far from it, (apart from the keystone cops penalty shoot out of ours.) Drogba and his cohorts get very rattled whenever they are up against us. United til I DIE!
.
August 31st, 2009 at 11:20
@Fred The Red: I can totally relate to your comment. Makes a lot of sense.
@Newton Health: “…or this is going to be a very long season for United fans who had better have lowered there expectations…”
I think that is what already happened. Therefore Fletcher being hailed as the second coming of ???????
Maybe I’m biased against a player I’ve been defending ever since he came on as a 16y/o. But, I really can’t see what all the fuss is about. For me, he did absolutely nothing amazing in the game (and I even tortured myself by watching a recording again). His passing was aweful. His tackling, although good, was nothing outstanding. People talk about the ‘wonder strike of a gifted player, Atshavin”. My question is, why did he have so much space? Who was supposed to mark him during the game, because whoever it was did a very poor job, all game long. If Fletch was not British/Scottish, would he have gotten all the plaudits that he did for a very average performance?
@Onkar: You fail to take into account ‘What if he got sent off?’
August 31st, 2009 at 11:21
@ Craig, i did Bro! And laughed and laughed and laughed. When Diabi scored, i started singing “Fergie, Fergie, sign him up” some of the lads got a good chuckle out of that.
August 31st, 2009 at 11:30
@Phoenix Red: Like your sense of humour there Phoenix mi man, glad to see at least one cheerful soul make an entrance onto this blog this morning.
. Quids in for you eh? You must be a lucky mascot for us Phoenix – make sure you do a half time visit to the bookies during all our games 
.
August 31st, 2009 at 11:33
Just read Fred’s comments on the other thread:
The season is young and perhaps Ferguson does feel it is best to avoid a poor start by going with experience over youth. But I’m not sure it will change as the season progresses. Last season Anderson and Nani hardly got any games despite being in their early 20s and having a lot more experience than Ljajic, Macheda, Gibson and the other youngsters who are supposed to come through this season. Instead Ferguson preferred Park and Giggs. While Rafael was heralded as breaking into the team, the reality was O’Shea got most of the games.
As is common with old age Ferguson has become more cautious and I really do not think he has the balls to unleash the latest bunch of Fledglings and play them week in and week out.
Inconsistent appearances do youngsters no favours. They need to be playing every week just like Ronaldo was (and even with him it took a few seasons before he realised his huge potential).
If I were Fergie (assuming I have no transfer money to spend):
1. I would play a settled defence which would keep us competitive. But in the full back positions I would give games to Fabio and Rafael in the games against weaker Premiership sides. I would also play De Laet every domestic cup game.
2. In midfield I would drop Carrick and play Fletcher alongside Anderson or Gibson rotating the two youngsters.
3. On the wings as soon as he is fit I would give games to Obertan. He has way more potential than Valencia and if the reports are true if we get his head sorted he could turn into a world beater. Nani would start whenever he is fit.
4. Upfront against bottom feeder teams we pair Macheda and Rooney-we need a finisher against these teams and Macheda despite his rawness can finish while Berbatov for all his skill isn’t a natural finisher.
August 31st, 2009 at 11:34
@Karl: I would say otherwise bro… If would have been Latin American or Italian instead of British and Scottish then he would have been hailed as a best coming thing since ROY KEANE.
Thats the general mentality of the people. I don’t know what they expects from the lad I mean like I said before he is no ROY he can’t do all the things but he is more in MAKELELE mould. And he is good in what he does the best roufling up the opponents.
We are taling and worried about his passing because of our insolvency in the midfield thats not this lads problem.
August 31st, 2009 at 11:37
@colver: Bang on target with all said….
August 31st, 2009 at 11:43
@Onkar: I disagree. As soon as there’s a Brittish player that shows any sort of promise, or have an exceptional game, the media is onto him as if he’s the next saviour.
). In fact, Park edges it on passing ability. How come Park is seen as ‘average’, but Fletcher as phenominal? I say, he had an average game. Better than his previous games this season (which were pretty poor), but still average. Maybe it’s because the rest of the team performed below average. I don’t know. But, that still baffles me as to all the worshipping he gets. No one seems to mention any of his ‘bad’ patches in the game?
I mean, I’m not saying Fletcher is a bad player. Not at all. But, what exactly is the difference between him and J.S. Park (except for the falling on his ass part of course
August 31st, 2009 at 11:47
If you want to hear Wenger’s assessment of our football check out the papers! According to Wenger we play anti-football-persistently fouling to prevent them playing football. He also referred to Fletcher as a player who plays only to make fouls!
August 31st, 2009 at 11:52
@Fred The Red: I would definitely agree with you about our youngsters stepping up…
except that I can once again see Giggs, Scholes and Neville (if he is fit) once again getting 30 odd games instead of being gracefully phased out.
August 31st, 2009 at 11:56
@Craig Mc: I more or less agree. I would say 55-45 for arse.
I agree about the good stuff. The game itself was very good entertainment if not for the slighlty disappointing performance on our side.
August 31st, 2009 at 12:05
Red Ranter, you conveniently left out the bit about United supporters calling Arsene Wenger a peodofile. You reckon that’s alright eh? All in good spirit?
And Rooney didn’t dive? Mate, he was down before Almunia made contact. Yes, he made a meal of it but that doesn’t excuse the fact that he dived.
August 31st, 2009 at 12:06
@colver: Didn’t see your post but I more or less think the same.
Except that I am a staunch proponent of the idiom:
“If they’re good enough, they’re old enough”
I don’t care if a player is 16 or 17. If the talent is there (and moreover if he’s precociously mature) then why not play him?
I also think that if you dwell too much in the process of giving youths proper playing time against top class opposition, they can lose some of their raw talent (Fletcher had better technique as a youth) or end up not fulfilling their potential. Blood one or two with experienced oldies in the EPL instead of fielding an entire side of youths in the League cup…
August 31st, 2009 at 12:06
@NicoQB:
, I really didn’t find it disappointing though Nico, because it wasn’t snooze football, it was end to end, bite your feckin nails to the wicks football – I enjoyed 
.
August 31st, 2009 at 12:09
@NicoQB: Our experienced oldies are ready for retirement Nico, so probably last season to blood some of our youngsters, and give them experience alongside the oldies eh?
August 31st, 2009 at 12:14
I really hope DeLaet gets opportunity to play in every cup game this season. That lad bleeds for us in all the reserve games, and he definately deserves more opportunity for promotion to the seniors! Best tackler we have at RB I think, next to Wes Brown! Hasn’t got quite the speed of Fabio, but does have pace in his game. Certainly tackles better than Fabio, hard and accurate!
August 31st, 2009 at 14:48
Ok a reasonable game against good opposition considering the tactics our commander & chief chose to go to battle with. 4-4-2 and I personally think we would of sunk Le Arse to the bottom of Salford Quays. But alas SAf did not see it my way nor will he ever.
Rumour mill info: Andos and Welbeck maybe on the out Welbeck out on loan and Ando just out. No sources stated jsut back hand rumours on footballrumours.co.uk (be warned it is run by a scouse “reasonable one though”)
papers are all quite, dont think SAF will pull off a deadline day wonder signing somehow!?
August 31st, 2009 at 15:59
@colver: @Karl: @NicoQB: after Ronaldo left I remember saying that we might have to take 1 step back before we take 2 forward, it looks like that will be the case this season, but I do believe that a few of our kids have world class potential and the time is rifgt for us to rebiuld our team.
Chelsea are going to wake up in a couple of seasons time with a team of old timers who will need replaced all at once, Liverpool have some key men around the 30 mark also. The biggest obstacle to our progress and on this point I agree, is SAFs continued loyalty to Giggs and Scholes.
We paid 30 million for Nani and Anderson, its now time for the manager to trust them and allow them to find themselves as United players, tell them that they will be given greater responsibity in our team and see how they do, coz basically we know little more about them now than we did during their first season.
Also Michael Carricks temperament has for a long time bothered me, he is at a stage in his career when ge should be looking to stamp his authority on games, instesd he looks like a player who is overawed playing for United and is happy just to do enough and no more, hes a bottler who is happy for others to be the main men, not good enough in my opinion.
If Anderson and Nani make the breakthrough and some of our younger players get 15 to 20 games then a big step in our transition will have taken place and puts us in good position to add a few key signings nest season when hopefully Giggs and Scholes retire, the nucleus is already there, its up to the gaffer now to make it happen, but he must phase out old timers and allow young players to show what theyre made off and then next summer look to add the key ingredients that we are lacking paticulary in the middle of the park. Welcome to the roller coaster.
August 31st, 2009 at 16:08
@toaster: Read the comments section of the previous post. It’s classless but Arsenal fans have no moral high ground when they make hissing noises at Spurs fans and make worse anti-Semitic gestures at them. We all have skeletons in our own closet and I for one concern myself with my club rather than try to ride the moral high ground and tell other fans as if nothing is wrong in my own backyard. I wrote an entire post regarding United fans chanting ‘Murderers’ at Liverpool fans and Liverpool fans singing Munich chants at us. I suggest you read that first.
August 31st, 2009 at 16:51
Deadline day and it’s absolutely dead on here
Whats going on? I have a thirst for news/rumours anything with substance.
Been trawling the net but found nothing please help me out i’m on a bank holiday shift stuck at work doing a 1pm-9pm. Need something to warde of the crazy thoughts of a man going insane from bordom.
August 31st, 2009 at 16:56
@Onkar: He’s not expected to do passing? I’m sorry mate but when the ball is at his feet, he is expected to pass it to one of his teammates and not to the opposition. And yes, he may be our Makelele but I urge you to go back and watch games with Makelele in his prime and count the number of times he gave the ball away? The point is he didn’t. Nothing I hate more than giveaways and unforced errant passes. Other than that he is a terrific little terrier who makes opponents lives miserable Hooray! What a beautiful game.
August 31st, 2009 at 16:56
@Monkwahhdo: Here.
August 31st, 2009 at 16:58
@Monkwahhdo: Deadline day is tomorrow….
August 31st, 2009 at 17:00
@Onkar: Yes and Fergie has always lost with his mouth shut and dignity intact.
Wenger has a legit beef with the refs and the way they handled the game. I couldn’t care less for his beef because he is Arsenal and they have screwed us over many times, especially at Highbury but if one is honest with themselves, he was screwed over on numerous calls. Still, he is overreacting with this nonsense of anti-football. We don’t play anti-football, we just play crappy football.
August 31st, 2009 at 17:01
Warning Massive Post Alert: next post is going to show sky sports clock watch report and shal post hourly update there after just because i can and will be bored.
August 31st, 2009 at 17:01
16.25 Skysports.com understands Aldershot have rejected a bid from Swindon for star striker Marvin Morgan.
15.56 Bayern general manager Uli Hoeness has cast doubt over a possible move for Schalke full-back Rafinha.
15.42 Skysports.com understands Newcastle youngster Fabio Zamblera looks set for a move back to Italy with Roma.
15.30 Fiorentina are negotiating with West Ham and could be set for a swap deal that would see Portuguese defender Manuel Da Costa move to the Premier League in exchange for striker Savio. This was a story broken by skysports.com on Sunday.
14.55 Stoke boss Tony Pulis is hoping to sign four more players before the transfer window closes.
14.50 Liverpool have confirmed the departure of French goalkeeper Charles Itandje on loan to Kavala FC.
14.45 Celtic manager Tony Mowbray has rubbished the transfer rumours surrounding his top players Scott Brown and Aiden McGeady.
14.40 Sky Sports News understands Benjani’s move to Hull City from Manchester City has broken down over personal terms.
14.25 Blackpool have had a fresh bid for Barnet starlet Albert Adomah turned down, skysports.com understands.
14.20 Portsmouth have made a bid to sign Egyptian star Amr Zaki, skysports.com understands.
14.15 Wycombe Wanderers manager Peter Taylor insists he is in no rush to bring new signing into the club, despite the transfer deadline looming.
14.05 John Terry has signed a new five-year contract at Chelsea.
13.50 Sky Sports News has learnt Bolo Zenden is in talks with both Portsmouth and Bolton.
13.47 Sky Sports sources understand Sunderland’s Danny Collins is in talks with Stoke City.
13.37 Ukrainian defender Dymytro Chygrynsky says he feels lucky after completing his £22million switch to Barcelona.
13.34 Massimo Donati has left Celtic and signed for Serie A side Bari.
13.25 Racing Santander are set to add two new faces to their squad after agreeing one-year loan deals for Barcelona defender Henrique and Newcastle striker Xisco.
13.23 Australia left-back David Carney is ready to relaunch his club career with Dutch outfit FC Twente after signing a two-year deal with the Eredivisie outfit.
13.21 Stockport have signed rookie Reading striker Nicholas Bignall on loan until January.
13.19 Hameur Bouazza has reportedly agreed a deal to join Championship side Blackpool.
13.15 Miroslav Klose is being linked with a deadline day transfer from Bayern Munich to VfB Stuttgart
13.10 Carlo Ancelotti has decided against making additions to his Chelsea squad, such has been the impressive start made by the West London outfit.
13.05 Johan Cruyff believes that Pep Guardiola was right to push through a swap deal involving Samuel Eto’o and Zlatan Ibrahimovic in order to freshen up the squad and avoid problems.
13.00 Dutch midfielder Rafael van der Vaart has been told he still has a future at Real Madrid.
12.55 Skysports.com understands Derby County defender Jordan Stewart is in talks with Sheffield United.
12.50 Tottenham youngster Andros Townsend has extended his loan deal at Leyton Orient until the end of the year.
12.42 Sky Sports News understands that Hull City have given Michael Turner permission to talk with Sunderland.
12.40 Rangers striker Kris Boyd has rejected a move to Trabzonspor.
12.33 Ukrainian defender Dymytro Chygrynskiy has completed his move from Shakhtar Donetsk to Barcelona.
12.27 Aston Villa midfielder Nigel Reo-Coker has insisted that he is committed to the cause at Villa Park.
12.20 Sky Sports News understands that West Ham have turned down a bid from Fiorentina for Matthew Upson.
12.00 Crewe have signed midfielder Simon Walton on loan from Championship club Plymouth.
11.43 Jason Pearce has underlined his commitment to Bournemouth amid growing speculation about his future.
11.37 Steven Pienaar has backed Everton’s pursuit of Atletico Madrid defender Johnny Heitinga.
11.23 Fabio Grosso’s agent believes it will take a “miracle” for the defender to join Juventus before the transfer window closes.
11.20 Hull City striker Daniel Cousin could be on his way to the Tigers’ Barclays Premier League rivals Burnley after the player’s agent claimed an approach for a loan deal had been made.
11.15 Andrea Dossena is likely to stay put at Liverpool, according to the player’s agent.
11.08 Wolves have completed the signing of midfielder Segundo Castillo on a season-long loan from Red Star Belgrade.
11.05 Swansea midfielder Kristian O’Leary has joined Leyton Orient on a one-month loan deal.
10.40 Portsmouth boss Paul Hart admits he can offer no guarantees regarding the future of David James.
10.22 Hull City manager Phil Brown is talking to a Premier League defender ahead of the likely departure of Michael Turner.
09.48 Real Madrid will make a final £54m deadline-day move for Franck Ribery, according to reports in Spain.
09.30 Steven Taylor vowed to stay with Newcastle and lead them back into the Premier League.
09.14 West Ham and Stoke are both reportedly set to make £2million bids for Sunderland’s Phil Bardsley before Tuesday’s transfer deadline.
08.52 Barcelona manager Pep Guardiola is adamant he will not be making a big-money offer for Manchester City and Brazil star Robinho.
August 31st, 2009 at 17:03
Portsmouth’s bid for Zaki has been rejected, Zamelak aren’t interested in selling him.
August 31st, 2009 at 17:06
@Craig Mc: Why you aren’t working for United’s public relations department or MUTV is beyond me? That has to be the most biased blind partial drivel I have ever read. United collectively stunk out the joint as if they were all taking a uni dump all at once and through your description of the events of Saturday, they still come out smelling like roses. Thats talent mate. Well done.
Now excuse me while I go to my toilet and upchuck from the nausea all that sugar and cotton candy brought on. 
August 31st, 2009 at 17:08
Sorry it must just be because i’m working i seem to forget the rest of the country isn’t.
now i’m feeling even worse.
Balls!! i’m off to the pub for a cheeky beer on my dinner!!!
August 31st, 2009 at 17:14
@NicoQB: It is the early days but that too can be looked at from another perspective too. It’s early days for Liverpool, Villa, Everton and Arsenal too. There is every reason to believe that with more games and time they will all improve also. Tottenham? Give them more time and they will realize they are playing over their heads and come back down to earth. Chelsea? Give them more time and they will gain even more confidence as historically strong front runners and they will only get better. So yes time, should help us improve. Where it will not help us improve is in player personnel and in team selection and tactics. And in the end, not having enough world class players especially at key positions and also having to put up with Fergie’s useless team selections and cowardly tactics is consistently going to cause us misery, frustration and manufacture more questions to ask than questions that are being answered.
August 31st, 2009 at 17:15
@Goonerboy: yea saf will be so concerned that his team stayed cool and didnt self implode like wangkers. lmao
United had more possession; 52%
more “chances”; 14 shots to 12 6 corners to 5
not their own work my ass… if you pressure a team then they make mistakes and that takes work…
August 31st, 2009 at 17:15
@Craig Mc: And horses run better with blinders on too.
August 31st, 2009 at 17:18
@Craig Mc: Drogba and Chelsea get rattled? Oh yes, you mean that team that beat us in the Charity Shield and the same team that had us beat in Moscow if not for an unlucky slip by their skipper at the penalty spot? That same team that during the Mourinho years owned our asses good? Yes, we do rule them and have complete control over their asses. We sure do.
August 31st, 2009 at 17:20
@Grognard: ill say it again,even thogh he played well broke up play well and slowed their attack, he was nutmeged TWICE
August 31st, 2009 at 17:20
@Karl: It reminds me of a skit on MADTV over the years called “Lowered Expectations”. If ever United needed to be categorized like that, this is the season. To think we are capable of anything beyond 3rd or 4th is bloody delusional.
August 31st, 2009 at 17:28
@Grognard: At worst we’ll finish 2nd to Chelsea. Liverpool look completely lost, Arsenal will get a good goal difference come the end of the season, but lose to all the big four and probably city. City will be there and there abouts for 4th but no higher, Spurs will fade over the season finishing 6th. The only way Chelsea will slip up is if Hiddink leaving the Russia job in 2 months gets Abramovich’s fingers all itchy or if he starts fucking about with team affairs again. We’re not playing well (usual for this time of season) but the difference being we are still picking up results. For this season at least it’s a case of I’d rather be lucky than good. It’s not ideal but it’s what we’re being given, so like it or lump it!
August 31st, 2009 at 17:28
@Onkar: He’s a good player and a very hard worker but as Dr Evil would say, he is Keane Lite, The Margerine of Keane, Diet Keane, just one calorie, not Keane enough. The reason is a player who plays that position needs to have a leadership ability, amn ability to scream and intimidate and get the attention of his teammates as well as be hard and abrasive towards the opposition Tackle them, foul them and then be in their faces if they don’t like it. That’s just what I expect because the Makelele’s, Keane’s, Mascerano’s, Gattuso’s, Vieira’s and Frings’ of the world have all been like that. Fletcher is to quiet and introverted and he goes about his job quietly which is fine but the job requires making noise and making sure the opponent hears them. The onloy noise he made on Saturday was in Wenger’s ears because the Voyeur was frustrated at Fletcher’s efficiency in tackling and gaining control of the ball. Fletcher was clean about it and that is what is probably his best quality but also his biggest weakness. Perhaps he needs to be a little more physical and scary on the pitch to really gain the reputation he needs that will help make us truly better. Going about your business in a quiet and unassuming way is what snipers do. What we need is for him to act more like a loud Tiger 1 Panzer.
August 31st, 2009 at 17:31
@Karl: The British bias is truly nauseating and when I see the prices asked for average British players I laugh. Fletcher however is a hard working good player but other than the skills or elements he lacks, the biggest thing he lacks is a truly great central midfield partner who can be box to box and who has the imagination. creativity and skill to attack the opponents and create or score goals. Give him that and United go from 4th to 1st in my books.
August 31st, 2009 at 17:34
@NicoQB: I do not want good entertainment with both clubs playing well and going back and forth. I want us to totally dominate and control a game, especially at home. Let the neutrals desire a balanced end to end game that is 55-45 or 50-50. I want and demand 70-30 at home against all opponents.
August 31st, 2009 at 17:35
@toaster: Go back to the previous post and read what Red Ranter had to say about that before you start putting words in his mouth and accusing him of ignoring such a disgrace.
August 31st, 2009 at 17:37
@Craig Mc:+1 spot on mate fekem its not luck that you put yourself in positions to win and you do.
August 31st, 2009 at 17:38
@gator: It’s still his careless passing that gets on my nerves and his great chance to score in the first half was frustrating because you watch a guy like Gerrard and had he been given that chance, he would would have ripped open the back of the goal with a shot. But for us, Fletcher put it up in row 20.
August 31st, 2009 at 17:42
@James Ryddel: what ever dude put on sky blue and a turban then
August 31st, 2009 at 17:43
@Traverse: Liverpool will be fine and they always have the X FACTOR, that being Torres and Gerrard. Those two are capable of winning games on their own and Gerrard is absolutely awesome in getting game winning goals when they count. They do have question marks in their back four though and that could derail them as Carragher and Skirt Chaser are both pretty bloody useless. Liverpool was never my worry though. I am much more concerned about Chelsea and i also felt Arsenal would be better because those kids were all a year older and Arshavin was there for the whole season. I’m still picking Chelsea 1st, Arsenal 2nd and us fighting it out with Liverpool for third. I am not scared of Man City…….yet. But their 1-0 wins kind of remind me of the beginning of Mourinho’s reign at Chelsea. You never know.
August 31st, 2009 at 17:43
@Onkar: this season will end up alot like last season everyone thinks their a contender till the business end. then their team fitness comes into question and the team with the depth rises above the rest…. and thats united
August 31st, 2009 at 17:48
: @James Ryddel: and i can see you being incorrect
how are a team that we just beat(with a poor performance that has fans praising the MASSIVE talents at ceth) going to finish runner up. they will fall off like always.
August 31st, 2009 at 17:53
Much belated thoughts on a pretty poor game:
1. Rooney didn’t dive. Good lord. The only reason people are talking about it is because they’re Arsenal fanboys and they’re bitter about Eduardo’s dive (which they should be).
2. Fergie watches our team train every day, and knows them better than us. And for some reason he picks Ryan Giggs to play in a role that we have players designed for. Fine. That is his right. But Fergie has to take some blame at not adjusting his game plan when it was patently not working.
3. Valencia still looks rubbish to me. Sorry, but he does. I’m happy to give him time, but for someone that was supposedly ‘proven’ quality, I’m not impressed.
4. Evra/Nani are becoming a very hand little combo. More of that please.
5. Park is not and will never be an impact sub. Fergie, wtf?!
6. Foster isn’t super human – but my lord some people are harsh on him. If he were Neuer and we’d just spent £20m on him, he’d be forgiven for needing time to settle and get used to the team. Keep in mind that was like his 6th game for the first XI. He got his hands to a shot that I 100% guarantee you VDS would have just watched. Also no comments on Vida who turned his back on the shot, which if I remember my defensive coaching…
7. Rooney is a f*cking warrior. He’s not the most talented, no longer the quickest, not very big – but he fights for every long ball, every 50/50 and almost every 90/10 against him. If Fergie continues to give him no support, we will fail.
8. Carrick is baffling me. The one thing he always had was a good eye for a pass, and at the very least hte ability to pass with both feet to his teammates. It’s gone. I don’t believe it’s only his fault – I really think there’s a big gap between him and the forwards – but he looks pretty crap right now.
9. What does Anderson have to do to get a game? Proven track record against l’Arse; good energy and hustling; a bit of creativity and stil no sub appearance. Instead we get Park. Good god.
10. Arsenal look like Arsenal to me. beautiful, flowing passing until the final third, then they conspire to get hounded out and refuse to shoot.
11. Chelsea are going to trot the league.
August 31st, 2009 at 17:54
@colver: we dont need them to be like 21yro ronaldo at age 17-18 we need them to be like 18yro roony at the same and were in business
August 31st, 2009 at 17:58
@Karl: yea i wonder this also if that was anderson v arsenal we would be saying what a sitter he missed and where were the long range efforts, hell never score…? i like fletch plenty but he is hargos backup for us not the answer… fergi please beat some sense into ando and instill some composure in him. im begging
August 31st, 2009 at 18:00
@Grognard: I don’t know how long you have been a United supporter for mate but I have been a supporter for well over 25 years, I’m 35 years old now so almost all of my life I been a supporter.
During that time let me assure you there have been periods of absolute dross at OT, mid table and hoping for a decent cup run sort of stuff, and on a few occasions the threat of relegation was a possibility, bottom line is this, there have been high points and low points, THIS PERIOD IS NOT A LOW POINT.
Yes we are not as good as we once were, but we are far from a bad team and I honestly only think Chelsea have the edge on us, we will probably compete on all fronts, we have still got some quality players, some very exciting young talent both at the club and some still to arrive, and a manager who is the absolute no 1 at building winning sides.
Now I’m not saying that I’m a better supporter than you, no way am I saying that, but I absolutely definitely do not share your negative outlook on our current position and I feel I have good reason to do do so. We have been spoilt rotten with the success we have been given By United and it annoys me how fickle some of our fans have become.
August 31st, 2009 at 18:01
@colver: sounds good to me… kick phelan out and take his seat on the bench
August 31st, 2009 at 18:07
@toaster: actually thats exactly what it does it turns a “dive”(dragging one foot is not a dive) into a penalty. just like it happened.
oh and the pedophile thing… whaaaa
fans are assholes deal with it. we’ve barley gotten rid of racist chants and chants about tragedy good luck stopping fans from making fun of your manager
August 31st, 2009 at 18:08
@NicoQB: i said the same thing about the Olson twins
August 31st, 2009 at 18:09
@Craig Mc: wonder how he’d do at cdm?
August 31st, 2009 at 18:09
Just read on Fottballrumours.com that Fergie and co meet with Rafa and co in a Manchester hotel. It wasn’t just a one of comment either and seems to have a little substance. The reason being suggested for the meeting is to talk about ejecting the Yanks from clubs. Now i aint the biggest fan of the Yanks but Ours are just keeping themselves alfoat with us fans by not interfering (all beit £60 mil still has gone missing). The scum are the ones in trouble beyond what they can handle.
Anyone else heard anything of this meeting or have a take on why this is being mooted about?
August 31st, 2009 at 18:11
@Fred The Red: +1
August 31st, 2009 at 18:21
@Grognard: And that team that we WELL BEAT AT OT last season! Also I don’t agree that they beat us at Wembley, not in normal time, and it was a game where again your mate Ballack had to keep playing what you call gamesmanship, but what I call cheating, to stop us. And don’t say that wasn’t the case because your mate Ballack ADMITTED that he did deliberately down Evra. I am not scared of Chelsea. Yes they beat us on their ground, but then again its usually one or other of their players DIVING in the area. Look Grog you want to support any team other than Man United at the moment, and that is your choice and privilege. Liverpool are marvelous, Chelsea are marvelous, Arsenal are marvelous, to you – well to me I support my team ALWAYS, in good and bad times, and so do most United faithful. So I personally know who the whiners are on here now, and I will be ignoring reading any of their posts. Like you say you don’t mind if people don’t agree and ignore you, and have told them to get screwed. So it will be my pleasure mate, because getting screwed by the missus, is better than listening to many of the negative opinions from some on here. VIVA Man United, and all those who support them thru good times and bad, with equal optimism.
August 31st, 2009 at 18:24
@Karl: I made it back from London alive, just.
Any Englishman would never rave about a performance of a Scotsman and the anti British feeling on this site for me is getting concerning, but for the record I have no time for the Scots, Fletch just had a good game if Anderson played like that me thinks your opinion would have been soemwhat different as any post has somewhat of an Anderson slant to it.
If Anderson took training more seriously which he has a retupation for not doing, stopped partying and sleeping with prositutes and concentated on his football he might have a better chance of playing, unlike the teetotal family man Fletch.
Anderson may have more abilty and “potential” as everyone sayes, but if he does not get his head down he will turn out to be a waste of his ability, that will and isn’t anyones fault but hs own mate.
August 31st, 2009 at 18:29
RedRanter – Just in case you want to discipline me for being so provocative against the continual whiners on this blog, I am okay with that boss. We won with 5 great goals at Wigan, and still the naysayers were out to only talk about a poor 1st half
. No matter what the lads do, there are too many on here who like to applaud the accolades of our opponents rather than our own lads. 
.
August 31st, 2009 at 18:31
@Craig Mc: Spot on.
August 31st, 2009 at 18:32
Villa just bid for James collins, Van der Vaart is apparently going no where now. WTF!? SAF get the fooking cheque book out and get signing!!! Yaya Toure, De Rossi, Snjeider, Silva? Any fooking quality forward thinking mid, we need to dump Michael “the Slow” Carrick and get a replacement that actually wants to attack, wants to take rocket shots at the opposing net. Drop Owen “Dead legs” Hargreaves and get in Yaya.
The last hurt me to say it but it’s a must. Hargreaves is the only united player to ever get his name on the back of my United shirt. Always had my own unitll he signed which makes me think i jinxed him. lol
Oh Fred i know we’ve been spoilt i’m 26 and have followed United since i can remember so i’ve only really seen the Fergie years and those years as you know have been our most successful. So effectively my expectations are those which have been set by our amazing club. One thins is for sure though no matter what happens i will follow the club to hell if that is what is round the corner for us.
“United till i die as will be my children for generations to come”
August 31st, 2009 at 18:32
@Stephen: Wooooo Stephen mi man, so good to see you back. We need the terrace troopers on here mate. I agree about Fletch, although I do hope Andi will knuckle down, and prove he can live up to his price tag
.
August 31st, 2009 at 18:36
@Monkwahhdo: Glad to hear your comments – United til you die Monkwahhdo
. Only thing I disagree with is that it isn’t Hargo’s fault that his tendonitis came back with a vengeance!
August 31st, 2009 at 18:41
@Monkwahhdo: yea thats what they should do… kick out the Americans and keep the russian oligarchs and arab oil barons.
at least our owners have sports owner experience and are leaving the decisions(so far) to the managers. and i really think that saf is saving the 60m for next year after he gives a few players a chance to become good enough. if when they dont next summer we will see some changes and that cash will be usefull.
August 31st, 2009 at 18:42
@Craig Mc: Don’t get me wrong mate, I want every player to succeed at United, I have no ill feeling towards any player and really want him to be the new Bryan Robson not the second coming of Russell Beardsmore.
All this talk of how poor we were and how brilliant Arsenal were is more me somehat bizarre, it sayes a lot if we won and were shite and Arsenal were great and lost, maybe we will get better and they will only decline this amasing manager who is behaving like a spolit brat and the last time they won anything was after that jammy penalty shoot out in the 04/05 FA Cup in which they got destroyed for 90 minutes but managed to hold out for penalties and fluke it, if we have problems then we are fine.
August 31st, 2009 at 18:45
@Fred The Red: I think I love you Fred
. Very good upbeat post mate! United through thick and thin – GET IN!
August 31st, 2009 at 18:46
@Grognard: Neither Torres or Gerrard have gone a season out of the last 5 uninjured. They struggled to beat a 10 man Bolton team, and have no plan B when Gerrard and Torres aren’t doing it for them as Villa proved. Without Gerrard and Torres that Liverpool team would finish behind us, Chelsea, Arsenal, Villa, Spurs, City, Fulham and Everton… and since every year they have to go at least 2 months without them (and this year they don’t have Alsons around to pick the passes and bail them out) they’ll play like a mid table team and are lucky not to finish there.
August 31st, 2009 at 18:46
@Craig Mc: you ever heard of the term the fith column, let me tell you about if you havent
The term originated with a 1936 radio address by Emilio Mola, an insurgent general during the 1936–39 Spanish Civil War. As his army approached Madrid, he broadcast a message that the four columns of his forces outside the city would be supported by a “fifth column” of his supporters inside the city, intent on undermining the Republican government from within, there are a few fith columnists in our midst, lets roots them mate and restore order
August 31st, 2009 at 18:49
@Stephen: No wrong idea Stephen, I know your heart, I know it bleeds United Red, and I know you want EVERY United player to make good
. But the re-incarnation of Russell Beardsmore – who the feck is he mate? 
.
August 31st, 2009 at 18:50
By the way Stephen, are your pockets aflame from your Missus hot hands on your money for the Wedding dress etc etc
.
August 31st, 2009 at 18:53
@Fred The Red: Fred I am 50 and I have been a fan since 1976. I know about the period you talk but I am only concerned with the Ferguson era. Other than his first two or three years with the club where he was trying to build something, the team has always been excellent and even though they didn’t always win the league, I cannot recall a team since 1992 that has looked as ordinary as this bunch. You can recite history to me all you want as I go back as far as you but one thing I’ll always remember about those pre Ferguson era teams, even if they didn’t always win, they played United football, tried to play entertaining attacking football and rarely can I recall a pedestrian and uninspiring a midfield as we presently have. And I am not asking you to share my negative opinion. You have a mind of your own and so I say use it as you please. I am free however to also give my opinion as well.
August 31st, 2009 at 18:54
@Beachryan: Park was only put on simply because Valencia was so poor, what other choices did we have a goal up and a player who looked completly out of his depth playing on the right hand side of midfield, with a replacement on the bench?
Sometimes peoples dislike for a player out weighs what is the right option at the time.
August 31st, 2009 at 18:56
@Fred The Red:
, sounds good to me Bro. Where do I sign up 
. I didn’t know about the fifth columnists, although I had heard the term used obviously, but I am acquainted with the term the enemy within mate.
August 31st, 2009 at 18:56
@Craig Mc: I’m not even going to bother to respond because it’s bloody well pointless and futile.
August 31st, 2009 at 18:57
@Craig Mc: He was one of the first Fergie Fledglings pal, he looked good at one point but failed to make it, and yes I am skint, the hotel and restaurant bills were bad enough!
August 31st, 2009 at 18:57
@Craig Mc: I’m sorry but I don’t understand what you’re on about?
August 31st, 2009 at 18:58
Craig you are what i would class a “the glass is half full” person very much like myself where as Grog and a few others are the Glass is half empty, However Grog all beit sounds so negative towards the team is a fan who wants whats best for the team. He as far as i can gather watches the games and even when we win sees what can be improved and what the opposing team did better then posts his opinion. In many ways he reminds me of Saf in that he will give praise and then stick a but on the end because there is always room for improvement.
I’ll gladly admit that just watch the games and enjoy the win, i don’t anaylse the game because i’d become a “glass is half empty” person because there really is so many things we as a team are doing wrong. Don’t get me wrong i don’t blindly follow the team as i do see the faults that many on here point out but i always get behind the team. I’ve never booed any of our lads even when they play shit, yes i have chanted for a player to come on but hey who hasn’t??
Back to my point, Grog and the glass half empty crew come on here to vent they’re disappointment at would could have been where as i and many of the glass half full come on to praise what went well. thus why this site is so good and well balanced.
You can’t have the YING without the YANG if you want a balanced view of a game.
P.s it does fook me off when people naysay after a win but on the other hand it would fook the naysay peeps off when i praise the team after a loss.
Grog sorry to have tagged you a half empty but as they say you’ll never be happy even with all the riches in the world as you’ll always strive for better in my humble opinion.
August 31st, 2009 at 19:00
@Traverse: Point is they beat Bolton and showed the courage to come back. What did we do against Burnley? Apples and oranges really. I think Liverpool lack the overall depth to be a champion but they do have some quality players that are to game winners. We have Rooney and that’s it.
August 31st, 2009 at 19:02
@Traverse: Those scousers do know how to get a player sent off, so as to play against 10 men don’t they? They have made an art work of it
.
August 31st, 2009 at 19:03
@Craig Mc: Why don’t you just talk football, rather than bitch about me and others for not sharing your new found positive outlook on life. It’s frakken nauseating to always be accused of whining and complaining when all we are showing is an alternate point of view. You don’t have to agree with our point of view and you can debate us and make your case, but keep the frakken insults and accusations to yourself. You be as positive as you want and respect others for having a different outlook. I for one do not appreciate being referred to as a whiner. I care about this team every bit as you mate.
August 31st, 2009 at 19:04
@Stephen: ah yes,Russell Beardsmore, remember the goal he scored against Liverpool at OT well my freind, Mclair and Hughes completing the come from behind 3 1 win, what ever happened to him.
August 31st, 2009 at 19:04
@Grognard: Recently Giggs, Scholes, Carrick, Anderson were all guilty of more unforced errors in passing than Fletcherinho.
All supposedly better passers of the ball than him.
Most of us agree that we could have used a Diego or a Sneijder. But no one can argue the fact that right now he’s our no.1 CM.
August 31st, 2009 at 19:05
@Craig Mc: same kind of thing mate
August 31st, 2009 at 19:05
@Craig Mc: You do love it when others agree with you and kiss your ass don’t you?
August 31st, 2009 at 19:08
@Craig Mc: And I’m a whiner?
August 31st, 2009 at 19:09
@Grognard: Foster is world class.
August 31st, 2009 at 19:12
@Fred The Red: Did he sign for Bournmouth??? Now a real question what happened to Gilly Garton or Tony Gill?
August 31st, 2009 at 19:14
@Grognard: I don’t kiss anyones arse thank you.
August 31st, 2009 at 19:14
@Grognard: Total domination can be quite boring for a neutral.
Utd. v/s Arsenal semi final replay villa park was anything but total domination, at times we were class, at others we were ridiculously outplayed. Still one of, if no the greatest United games of recent memory.
August 31st, 2009 at 19:15
@Grognard: Now that wasn’t necessary. Despite the smiley it was in bad taste.
August 31st, 2009 at 19:18
@Monkwahhdo: Thankyou mate – I have seen now who the ‘glass half full’ ones are, and I will gravitate towards them
. I started to realise I was gravitating towards the whole naysaying business, after a while of debating the as you say mate, the fors and againsts, and there were a lot of againsts being pontificated, and very few FORS. I realised when my Manc mates down the pub, started to say to me, what’s happening to you, Craig the stalwart, who always lived on the BRIGHT SIDE OF LIFE! You are becoming a right pontificating miserable GIT. We had a great Irish supporter on here called Jb, don’t know if you ever knew him at all, and he spoke to me once, about the awful change into negativism that was emerging, as to how he knew what a positive thinker I was when I first came onto this blog, and I knew he was right. So thankyou Monkwahhdo, I appreciate being a ‘glass half full’ person.
August 31st, 2009 at 19:19
@Fred The Red:
Amen.
August 31st, 2009 at 19:22
This is all quite funny.
August 31st, 2009 at 19:23
Hey Fred, Glad we’ve reached a kind of consensus. I agree that continuing to play Scholes, Giggs, Carrick and Park is holding back our youngsters. Unfortunately they do not retire until next season and it seems that Fergie wants every last drop of blood from them. So this transition process will take longer than it needs to.
I do not think Fergie really has the balls to blood youth as aggressively. I also think there is a danger that the guy who replaces Fergie will be even less inclined to give youth a chance. So that is another reason Fergie needs to play these youngsters this season so they are established by the time the new guy comes along.
Basically the way I see it there were three options when we sold Ronaldo:
1. Use the money to revamp our midfield with a few star names
2. Throw players like Gibson, Nani, Macheda, Anderson, Obertan into regular first team action
and the option Fergie chose
3. Play the same team as last season heavily relying on Giggs and Scholes and filling Ronaldo’s place in the team with the very ordinary Valencia and replacing Tevez with the over-the-hill and injury prone Michael Owen
August 31st, 2009 at 19:30
@Red Ranter: It’s ok RR, and its true, I do love it when the Stephen’s, Fred the Reds, Gators, Onkars and Eddi’s etc agree with positive thought, because that is what it is to my mind, and I enjoy that kind of fandom. I would not disrespect them by thinking or name calling them arse lickers
. But Red Ranter I have listened to Monkwahldo and taken from it, and he has a point, and I will let the naysaying well alone henceforth.
August 31st, 2009 at 19:32
@Craig Mc: Not sure i remeber Jb fella, I think being a Manc makes me generally upbeat about everything because well being Manc there is fook all else to be happy with other than our team these days, Between the weather and the litter wardens we dont really stand a chance. lol
August 31st, 2009 at 19:32
@colver: Colver Bro the night is young, but soon cometh the morning
. The youngsters will get their opportunites mate, it is a long season.
August 31st, 2009 at 19:34
@Monkwahhdo:
. a fellow Manc, I like that! Mancs – the salt of the earth 
.
August 31st, 2009 at 19:37
@Stephen: who were the fledglings mate, Robins, Martin, Beardsmore, who else was there
August 31st, 2009 at 19:37
http://vodpod.com/watch/2125065-foster-super-save-vs-robin-van-persie
I can’t stop watching this!
That commentary is addictive as well!
August 31st, 2009 at 19:41
@colver: lets just hope he starts with option 3 and progresses to option 2 during the course of the season, maybe by then Scholesy and Giggs will ride off into the sunset as legends.
August 31st, 2009 at 19:42
@Fred The Red: I think there was Giuliano Maiorana, David Wilson, Deniol Graham and was Lee Sharpe one of them or was that later?
August 31st, 2009 at 19:50
@Sir Red:
, what language was the commentary in Sir Red??? I only caught West Brom??? What was all that about?
August 31st, 2009 at 19:52
@Grognard: your opinions have some merit mate, but in my opinion are vastly over exaggerated, that’s all I’m saying.
August 31st, 2009 at 19:55
@Stephen: I think Sharpey was one of them, what a player he was when he burst onto the scene, 6 2 at Highbury, Sharpe hat trick, should have become an all time great.
August 31st, 2009 at 20:03
@Craig Mc: No clue mate, no clue!
August 31st, 2009 at 20:14
@gator: You mean the ones from that family sitcom thing?
Are you not the self-proclaimed porn specialist on redrants.com, by any chance?
August 31st, 2009 at 20:15
@Red Ranter: gah?
August 31st, 2009 at 20:18
@Craig Mc: Salford born and bred mate, tickles me when the bitters claim that all our fans are from down south.
i work in an office in stretford and there is about 20 city fans 40 scumpool fans and the rest well lets just say we outnumber the blues 10 – 1. 
Just so you know fella i like Grog even with his apparent negative slant towards our performances because unlike me he’s able to objectively analyse our games, awhile back he used to mix his reviews of the team good with bad. Granted he seems negative but if you carefully read what he writes they are opinions on what he feels we should be doing to improve not neccesarily just claiming we are shit. lol oh and he watches far more football than i do. Personally i think he was a footbal coach in a previous life or something
August 31st, 2009 at 20:28
krancjar to tottenham, turner moves to hull. seems even though it’s bank holiday everyone else is buyiny and selling except us. I want a midfiealder general or a maestro!! Fook just but neuer or adler and i’d be happy because we’d concede less.
Oh before i get lynched!! i know forster is good and will get better but he’s just not german. lol
If carlsberg made Keepers they make Neuer not foster!
August 31st, 2009 at 20:32
@Sir Red: Thanks. I’ve been wanting to see it since I knew I missed it.
August 31st, 2009 at 20:34
@Monkwahhdo: Objective? Grognard?
Now those are two words…
August 31st, 2009 at 20:36
@Monkwahhdo: Exercise 1.1: Fill in the blanks.
If Foster was German, ___________________________
August 31st, 2009 at 20:39
BREAKING NEWS!!!
I am sexy…
Okey, got that out of the way. Now onto footballing terms. Hmm, hmm… Well, I feel like I said everything I could about the game in the last post, so I have very, very little to add right now.
Well, I have one new comment- THAT PIC IS HILLARIOUS!!! 
August 31st, 2009 at 20:40
@NicoQB: If Foster was German, he wouldnt be a future England number 1.
August 31st, 2009 at 20:42
@NicoQB: Whatever do you mean Nico??
Ok Ok He’s not all the time as he does rant a lot but when he has his game head on he is pretty accurate with his analysis. He’s like old father football (great knowledge and wisdom) but like the rest of us as we all become older we become a lil grumpier. 
August 31st, 2009 at 20:49
if foster was german he wouldn’t be shit??
honestly if foster was german he would of learnt a different style of goal keeping and as with most germans would be ruthlessly efficient!
August 31st, 2009 at 20:50
@Footy4Eddy: Your facebook profile pic begs to differ!!!
@Monkwahhdo: Shhhh. I’m waiting for some kind of written explosion!
August 31st, 2009 at 20:52
@Footy4Eddy: Technically he could be the future number 1 if he hadn’t played for his own country and applied for citizenship!? ang on wasn’t that what the proper shit keeper “aluminium” trying to do at one point??
August 31st, 2009 at 21:01
@NicoQB: Thats just my face, its my body that gets the ladies.
I know I am ugly as fuck on that pic, but I am getting a new one soon. I just look awful when posing for a pic, should work on that…
Next pic is gonna make you gay. 
August 31st, 2009 at 21:10
@Footy4Eddy: Make me gay? Unless you beat some striking resemblance to Darren football genious Fletcher, I don’t think so, no.
August 31st, 2009 at 21:18
@NicoQB: Fletcher?!
I may believe in my ability, but I will never be able to be as sexy as Fletcherino. He is just too sexy! The Angelina Jolie by men! 
August 31st, 2009 at 21:34
@Footy4Eddy: Eddi please tell me that the girl who made you love her hasn’t turned you off other girls
.
August 31st, 2009 at 21:40
@Monkwahhdo: How the dobbins are 40 Liverpoo fans working in Stretford????? Regards the 2nd part of your post, I am not going there mate
.
August 31st, 2009 at 21:41
@Sir Red: Awww thats a shame
.
August 31st, 2009 at 21:43
@Craig Mc: That will never happen mate!
She may have made me not care so much about other girls, but I am still attracted to them. 
Weird thing is I have a sexbomb in my class, but I dont seem to give a fuck. People tell me the chick I dig isnt actually that hot, that I can do better and they are surprised I like her. Still like her a lot, and I dont seem to manage to do anything about my feelings. But I know RR dont want us to get into that subject again, so lets just leave it to that!
August 31st, 2009 at 21:59
@Footy4Eddy: Righty oh Eddi, only mentioned it because I thought the girls had been supplanted on your bedroom walls by a large poster of Darren Fletcher
. So back on topic pronto 
.
August 31st, 2009 at 22:09
@Craig Mc: Sexy is more than just looks. Its your behaviour, its your body language and its your connection with other human beings.
Get it? 
August 31st, 2009 at 22:48
@Stephen: I agree that Valencia was poor, but he also didn’t get a lot of service. The real mystery is how giggs lasted the full 90. Our first half was bad because giggs killed almost every single attack. The thing that kills me is berba would have been perfect for the role giggs played in, yet he didn’t start.
August 31st, 2009 at 22:57
@Johnsom33: I couldn’t believe that Berba wasn’t brought on earlier than he was. We always make our subs too late. I’m not a Park fan at all, but he did more than Valencia who was VERY ineffectual. Agree that AMF is not the best position for Giggsy, because he keeps floating out to the wings!
August 31st, 2009 at 23:08
@Johnsom33: @Craig Mc: I have been listening to the BBC’s excellent World Football phone-in which has Tim Vickery as the South American football expert and he says Valencia plays for Ecuador either as a midfielder who can drive from central midfield and shoot, (he thinks he has a very good shot) or cuts in from the wing. He finds it strange that he’s been talked about more as an out and out winger at United.
August 31st, 2009 at 23:14
@Johnsom33: agree about the Berbs for Giggs point 100 percent mate. Giggs wasted so many of our potential attacking threats that I was screaming at the TV for SAF to take him off.
If Berba had half of those opportubities then we would have carried alot more of an attacking threat.
Even if he had played Berba up top and Rooney were Giggs was it would have been much better and all this tripe that is being said about our performance would not be happening.
I have no problem with us playing 4 5 1 formations providing SAF picks the right personal, that means no Park or Giggs, and two full backs that can get forward and join in the attacks, that might mean gambling on one of the Da Silvas defensively, but its a gamble worth taking
August 31st, 2009 at 23:16
Dan, this is gonna make you come! Dunno what you other guys think of this, but Im working on a BEN FOSTER VIDEO!
Not FIFA 09, real life saves and such from Big Ben. To be continued… 
August 31st, 2009 at 23:45
@James Ryddel: Amen, brother.
August 31st, 2009 at 23:47
I just want to commend RR on keeping this site lively and interesting! You have really taken the site above and beyond recently!
Of course, the site would not be what it is were it not for its many adamant and ranty reader! Thank you all for making the site worth visiting and making me question my own ideas of the team we all love/like/follow/dislike/hate
September 1st, 2009 at 0:07
@NicoQB: his name would be rene Adler!!
September 1st, 2009 at 0:28
Just watching the game repeated on MUTV, and I have two points of note. Arsenal might have less fouls in the statistics column because we played on from alot of obvious fouls, where as Arsenal stopped every time. Also, Fletcher will now be known as McEssien
September 1st, 2009 at 0:32
@Fred The Red: What about Delaet Fred, hes an excellent aggressive tackler? And though not as fast as Fabio, he does have pace to get forward, and his passing into the box not bad. He has the right mixture between going forward and staying back. What he doesn’t have though is much 1st team experience. P’haps Fergie will blood him in the cup competitions this season. I really hope so, because the lad is crazy on Man Utd.
September 1st, 2009 at 0:35
@Traverse: Well spotted Trav. Do we have Internationals saturday and wednesday now? Always bothers me, because so many players get injured on international duty!
September 1st, 2009 at 0:37
@Red Ranter: But he played as an out and out winger for Wigan
.
September 1st, 2009 at 0:39
@Footy4Eddy: Got it mate, but what has that got to do with a huge piccie of Darren Fletcher on your wall
.
September 1st, 2009 at 0:40
@Craig Mc: Yeah England have Slovenia in a friendly on Saturday, then by irony and fate can qualify for the World Cup by beating Croatia at Wembley on Wednesday.
September 1st, 2009 at 1:54
@Footy4Eddy:
September 1st, 2009 at 1:55
@NicoQB: Hed be better then neaur, adler, boruc etc…
September 1st, 2009 at 2:03
@Fred The Red: I actually believe that the 4-5-1 formation was the correct call against Arsenal, but I could not see how Berbatov would fit that. He’s certainly not a bristling midfielder and cannot operate as the single striker. So his place on the bench was ineveitable.
The 4-5-1 was certainly a defensive formation for us and our only option given the current form of our central players. I believe SAF wanted to block the Gunners passing channels more than creating a free flowing game. It was interference at all cost, with much of United’s MF being decisive and even harsh in its tackling.
It’s the tried and true way to throw the Gunners off their game – and to a point it worked.
Shame though, that we are now reduced to these tactics as a first choice, rather than trying to out play the opposition at their own game!!
September 1st, 2009 at 2:19
@Fred The Red: Fickle is as fickle does!!
Didn’t you bugger off just because the tone here became a little negative??
September 1st, 2009 at 2:27
@Craig Mc: Yep I’m surprised De Laet’s not getting a run out. With O’Shea playing wide we just don’t offer the same attacking threat as with him!!
September 1st, 2009 at 2:48
@Grognard: I just can’t stand this crap about not being a true United supporter if you question the quality of the team or criticize the United state of the nation.
It kind of reminds me of the WOMD thing here in the US. People would say “hey wait a minute, were not sure of this” and everyone would get on them with the being un-American chants.
Well we all know how that ended up.
You keep it up, mate. Your points are valid and are oft times proven true. You’re getting flak because it’s the start of the season and all these lads don’t want anything to upset their expectations.
While some of us continue to make honest points about our United, others will just compete for the coveted “Neville Chamberlain Go With The Flow” award that I hope you present at the conclusion of this season!!
September 1st, 2009 at 3:05
@Red Ranter: So you think SAF is misusing him too?
Could be he’s just not that good!!
September 1st, 2009 at 3:10
@Redrich: not wanting to get involved in pointless arguments is hardly fickle, the summer time is a time of endless speculation and hot air, if you want to partiicipate in that then knock yourself mate, Ill take a pass.
September 1st, 2009 at 3:12
@Craig Mc: Never thought about Delaet mate, havent seen alot of him, what I have seen impressed me.
September 1st, 2009 at 3:16
@Fred The Red: I thought I read a few posts back that you didn’t like the negative tone of our conversations. Was I wrong thinking this??
September 1st, 2009 at 3:18
@Redrich: people say that we played a 4 5 1, but like the Barca final last season it wasnt a srict midfeild five as we know it. Giggs played more as no 10 than central mid, its a role hes not cut out for in my opiniom because of his wastefulness in pocession, Rooney would have been the man for the job with either Owen or Berbatov up top, you take your pick.
September 1st, 2009 at 3:28
@Redrich: if you are talking about posts on this thread mate then you are wrong , I never said that I didnt like the negative comments, I said that I didnt share them and that when you take stock of our current plight compared to our plight in the eighties then those who are complaining are fickle. I took a short sabbatical in the summer coz I didnt wantb to participate anymore, thats not a crime is it.
September 1st, 2009 at 3:51
@Fred The Red: I said that I didnt share them and that when you take stock of our current plight compared to our plight in the eighties then those who are complaining are fickle.
I will be as polite as I can with this (and I think I’ll speak for myself here) I honestly think you are insulting the intelligence of people like me who have tried to be supportive of the team throughout, yet aren’t afraid to point out flaws in the side. The idea of the exercise is to share views of our team be it good or bad. I have a lot of patience for United, and I’ve said it time and again, that even if we were to go trophyless, I will give the team the benefit of doubt this season. However, if I see areas where it’s glaringly obvious that we could do better I will share my opinions on them.
There is a big difference between being objective and crying fire every time we put out a shoddy performance — the latter being the knee-jerk/fickle kind.
Anyway, I will leave you to your devices to say what you want, but I wanted to say this for once from my side. I have a thick enough skin to deal with criticism but I’m just surprised at the lack of perspective on some commenters when it comes to passing judgements on others’ views
September 1st, 2009 at 3:52
@Redrich: I did say I found the negative stuff annoying, so if thats what you meant then you are right, we are third in the lesgue with 3 wins out of four and a win against one of the so called big four, things could be alot worse.
September 1st, 2009 at 3:58
To the others it has come to my notice that there were a few commenters who used to be scathing in criticism of the side last season, and used to hide under the shield of “this is a Rants site”. And that’s perfectly ok with me — I have always allowed that freedom, as long as it doesn’t get personal. Yet, those very same people who have become, shall we say, “optimistic” this season, aren’t equally understanding of others here who may be negative. (Justifiably or not is not the question. Opinions are opinions.)
I request you all to be a bit more accommodating of one another here, rather than getting into a debate on who’s the bigger fan.
September 1st, 2009 at 4:11
@Red Ranter: And you insult my intelligence by thinking that I cannot tell the difference when someone is trying to be objective in their criticisms and just being plain negative, because having read some of your posts I can tell you for a fact that I agree with some of your criticisms. You make the mistake of thinking that I disagree with all the negative posters on here, I dont, and I would never deny anyone the right to voice their opinion, what bugged me today about certain posters was I believed their severe negativity was unjustified and OTT.
I dont really understand what you are trying to say in the last part of your post, if its being directed at something specific that I have said and you point the comment in question out then maybe I can answer you properly.
September 1st, 2009 at 4:23
@Red Ranter: you and me started this thread be swapping differing opinions, it was civil and done in the right spirit and some of your sentiments on our current plight I would share, so forgive me in asking why you personally sought to defend yourself against me so aggressively, I havent got a problem with you.
If I am one of the others that you address then I waish you could point out specific examples so I could answer your charge.
September 1st, 2009 at 4:31
@Fred The Red: Well you have just made your grand re-entrance to this forum, and within the space of a couple of days your ready to talk trash to all those that want our team to improve and excel.
So if you think wanting our team to excel is a sign of being fickle, I wanted you to take a look at your own action here at post #299 of the preveiw thread (just 2 days ago). You clearly said that you couldn’t “hack it” and you buggered off for a couple of months, while we all stood firm and argued it out.
If you want to use an argument that will support the facts of your premise, then do so! But don’t go throwing around misnomers that skew the facts of what people are trying to put across!!
September 1st, 2009 at 4:40
@Redrich: explain this misnomer that skews the facts my friend and I will answer, I have given plenty of reasons for my optimism, try reading them.
And wether I couldn’t hack it or not is irrelevant, like I said earlier, if you want to argue something to death then knock yourself out.
September 1st, 2009 at 4:47
All I have to say about the match is that we were extremely lucky and Giggs must never play again against top-quality opposition. If we had Berba or Owen in place of the old man its highly likey we would have taken advantage of the various counter-attacking opportunities in the first half and won comfortably.
September 1st, 2009 at 4:50
@Fred The Red: You are breaching the divide between those who have blindly excepted the current state of affairs and those who are questioning it, with a wedge of disloyalty. That is the misnomer!!
And I will argue something to death if I believe it to be true, will you???
September 1st, 2009 at 5:04
@Fred The Red: My problem was when you made a sweepingly generic statement directly connected negativism and fickleness. Since I shared a generally negative outlook following the Arsenal match, I obviously took that statement directed at me. I normally am in agreement with most of what you’ve had to say on United. So I was naturally surprised at the statement you made which really provoked my response. Once again, if that is not your intent then I will take it back.
September 1st, 2009 at 5:13
@Redrich: I have never questioned anyones loyalty my friend, the closest I came to doing that was to call some of the negative posters fith columnists, which was a tongue in cheek statement, hence the smileys.
And when did I trash talk down the people who want the team to excel, you are creating a strawman and taking poetic license with my words to make me say something that I didnt. We all want our team to excel, Ive got no problem with consructive criticism, all I was trying to do was show the people who were being overly critical that our current plight was not as bad as it seems, so please dont overstate what I said and create a misnomer of your own.
And there comes a point in every argument when it is better to agree to disagree. In the summer things were be debated to death so I decided to take a time out, simple as, if that means I cant return and make a comment then all RR has to is say so.
September 1st, 2009 at 5:20
@Fred The Red: @Redrich: Regarding someone’s right to pick and choose his debate it’s his own decision, and I wouldn’t hold that against anyone. Fred, you are free to debate till death or agree to disagree – in that respect I have no qualms.
Hope this ends that debate
September 1st, 2009 at 5:20
@Red Ranter: I must admit that I was surprised by your criticism of the team after the game, but I absolutely 100 percent agree you with about our need of a creative midfielder.
I was genuinely not thinking of you when I called some fans fickle, but you have to admit RR, some of the criticism has been way over the top and is fickle.
September 1st, 2009 at 5:27
@Fred The Red: If I didn’t know some of the commenters here I may have made a similar accusation. But since I know many of the regulars on here, I have a fair idea that many of their concerns are genuine. We all make a lot of statements in the heat of the moment, but I think a lot of people making those comments have put in a lot of effort and logic behind their thinking and have backed their arguments with some substance. It’s not one person coming on here and saying we were shite. There is a lot more in their arguments so I wouldn’t dismiss them outright as fickle.
Too often have I seen trends in a lot of other forums and blogs where anything negative, and the person gets hounded out like he committed a crime. That’s something I try to discourage here. I try to value all opinions, because I have to, for the benefit of good debate.
September 1st, 2009 at 5:39
@Red Ranter: we were poor on saturday, thats a fact, but I honestly believe that it was down to poor play from some of our key players on the day, but it just sounded like some people had made up thier minds based on saturdays performance that it was going to be like that all season, lets wait until at least christmas before we throw in the towel. We are not what we once were and thats a fact, but I dont think we are as bad as most people think, thats all Im saying.
September 1st, 2009 at 5:42
@Fred The Red: So you are the standard that we should call par. When things become overly or underly critical we should refer to you for reference and acceptance.
Please don’t come across as the righteous disciple of how acute our discussions should be. You have your view, I have mine. You, in my opinion, overstate a positive opinion to sooth your feelings toward United. I, on the other hand, will overstate negative opinion, and probably for the same reason!!
I’ve never had a problem with anything you and I have discussed before, and I assume this will all blow over (for the sake of the team
), but I do think you’ve come back with a tone and a mission!!
September 1st, 2009 at 6:13
@Redrich: Im on no mission my friend, but you misunderstand me if you think that I set myself up as the standard, I dont. You can be as overly or underly critical as you want, just dont draw false conclusions out of my posts and then state them as a matter of fact, like I was trash talking anyone who wanted our team to excel.
You dont have to seek acceptance from me for anything, and neither do I have to seek your permission to return to this forum and post a comment.
The point I was trying to make in my previous posts was that the criricism of the team from certain quarters in my opinion was over the top, and I gave my reasons why, I never said that people were not allowed to state a negative opinion and I certainly didnt say that there isnt room for improvement.
Lets wrap this up and move on coz i can assure that I never came back with any preconcieved or hidden agenda, as anyone that knows me would testify, you and I could have have a stand up row, and five mins later it would be forgotten about as far as Im concerned.
September 1st, 2009 at 8:24
Did I read wrong or is this not redrants? Alot of us are unhappy with the current situation at the club and the gaffers insistence on not doing anything to improve the situation. /its that fact that I thank RR for this site because it gives me a chance to vent, rant and spew my bottled up anger at this situation.
Some of you are here preaching about half full and half empty glasses, well the truth of the matter is the glass’ current situation is determined by the glasses previous situation, if it was full and you take a huge chug from it, then its half empty,and if it was empty and you poured liquid in it then its half full, its the continued progression of things that determine what the next event will be.
Some of us are seeing it as half empty because we were a force to reckon with over the last three seasons, I never had any doubts that we would win against arsenal or even any of the top four, and whenever we lost I wasn’t really woriied because i knew the team was good enough and it was just not their day, however for the first time in years i was anxious when facing le arsenal, I’m not sure we can match chelsea and have all but given up on any meaningfull performance at the champions league, We are a team on a downward trend. Everyone has a right to their opinions and anyone can choose to close their eyes and not see whats in front of them but, don’t criticize us for ranting on a ranting site.
September 1st, 2009 at 9:25
@Fred The Red: Bloody hell Bro – I don’t understand the blitzing you have just taken in this thread. I truly believe that you are one of the most conciliatory posters on Red Rants – and if the blitz continues, wouldn’t blame you if your short summer sabbatical (which was wise in my opinion) cos nothing of much life changeing significance was talked about then) became a long sabbatical – jeez! I know your not fickle Fred, because you have always taken the stance against OTT criticism of the team for as long as I can remember, and that included my OTT stuff as well. You have never changed from your optimistic stance mate
.
September 1st, 2009 at 9:49
I feared it would be Rome all over.
September 1st, 2009 at 10:08
i’ve posted here before that saf would always play berbatov and this would damage the campaign. to my surrpise he wasn’t in the line up on saturday. maybe i was wrong and saf now realises the poor value berbatov offers in such matches. what is the saying he’s a luxury on the park united can’t afford. when he did come on he came across as a player with no confidence. i read a report that united where going to make a move for modric in a player plus cash transfer. i hope this is true and the player is berba. even though modric is out for 6 or more weeks he will offer united something that united is missing in the future. a creative attacking midfielder with movement. something that is beyond berba.
September 1st, 2009 at 10:26
Half Full:
- I believe we have a very good squad of players
- I believe we have a very good manager
- I believe we have one or two stars in the making
- I believe we have a shot at the title this season
- I believe our current team has the ability to play entertaining football
Half Empty
- I believe there’s room for improvement in the squad
- I believe our manager has grown soft, stubbourn and is not very tactically acute
- I believe that some people are getting preference over others and it’s actually causing more harm than good
- I believe we will bow out in round 2 of the CL
- I believe that ‘entertaining football’ is not really on the agenda this season.
That should indicate that I am so much more than just a ‘glass half full’ or glass half empty’ generalisation. I understand people’s need to stereotype, but at least get it right. I am not negative. I am ‘pissed off’! (Still does not mean I don’t love Manchester United).
People’s comments on the Reasons why my perception should be more ‘positive’ actually helps a lot. But, criticising me for my ‘negative’ view or feeling does not help. It only re-directs my pissed-off feelings from the team towards you.
Long Live Manchester United!
September 1st, 2009 at 10:38
@Karl: I agree there is room in our squad for improvement no doubt especially in the centre of midfield.
Fergie is stubbon, but in my view far from soft.
Anderson isn’t playing which is annoying you, but saying that it is causing more harm than good is debatable.
The Champions league exit is again debatable, depending on whom we play just saying we will exit so early is a little sceptical.
Fergie wants to win the league to make 19 tiltes and entertianing football isn’t his priority.
September 1st, 2009 at 10:41
@Stephen: I hope she got her perfect dress?
I was actually thinking about you Saturday afternoon. Shame
Maybe you’re right in the Andy slant
You say that if it were Anderson then it would have been a different matter… Well, Andy IMO had a good game last week. He really was not bad at all. Good passing, some visionary ones, confidence to try a difficult pass, etc. People still say he sucked. Why is that?
(I have actually decided start emphasising all the things he does good during a game from now on. That is if he ever plays again).
But, in all honesty, I just can’t see what was so great about Fletcher’s game. I just can’t. I tried. Still nothing. Like I said, I think it’s because all our other midfielders sucked even worse so far. He’s not bad. In fact, he’s rather good. But immense? McEssien? The best in the league? Am I being negative again or is that just OTT?
September 1st, 2009 at 10:48
@tom: Dude, had Berba started the match against Arsenal, he would have created at least one clear cut scoring chance for Rooney/Nani or others…
And Berba wouldn’t have performed worse than Giggs, anyway. Berba would pass the ball better (way way better) than any member of the current united team even when he is half asleep…
Not to forget he was the standout player against Wigan.
You say Berba is damaging the campaign.. so according to you Berba is the reason defense is leaking the goals, Berba is the reason Carrick is playing super shite, Berba is the reason Anderson is not getting the game time, eh? No other fooking striker can do well with the current team, unless the midfield problems are solved…
September 1st, 2009 at 10:48
@Karl: It was interesting matey, sitting in an London pub surrounded by Arsenal fans while the fiancée has your credit card!!
With Andy I agree either Fergie plays him or he sells the lad, and playing him on the left hand side of midfield where he hasn’t played is not going to help him in any way shape or form.
Fletch for me is the best of a bad lot, I thought he had a good game on Saturday but he did not have an awful lot of competion did he? I would like Fergie if he was going to play a midfield three to play Andy or Gibson, Carrick does seem to have lost his way but with Spurs and City coming up I just can’t see it.
September 1st, 2009 at 11:33
@Karl:
. Long live Man UNited indeed. 
.
On a lighter note – We hear you, and we know your concerns!
September 1st, 2009 at 11:49
@tom: Berba isn’t an AMF though mate, so shouldn’t be expected to become one.
.
SAF has admitted that he didn’t know how to play Berba in his team last season, but supposedly has now worked that out???
Berba qualities to offer the team:-
1. He has great technical ability, can pluck a ball out of the air, and stop it dead. Can receive and find the right pass all in one sweeping movement. He proved at Wigan he is not work shy. He loves Man United.
2. Why is he not finding the net, when he is provided with the greatest opportunities in the box??? It is a mystery, as he scored 23+ goals for his other clubs. I think it is a MIND thing. FEAR is a big factor in sport, and to freeze on the big stage (Old Trafford), bleeds the confidence out of a person. Could anybody hazard a guess as to whether Berba plays better in away games than he does at OT? See the gladiatorial spirit at OT could be destroying the guy, as he tries to live up to expectation, but finds that he falls foul of executing even the simplest things. He scored goals much at other clubs, so maybe he does need the help of top sports psychologist. He could also do with a nurturing coaching staff, and an appreciative OT crowd, for this time when things are not running for him.
September 1st, 2009 at 12:32
@Stephen: “sitting in an London pub surrounded by Arsenal fans while the fiancée has your credit card!!”
Now that’s really sick. I suppose it shows I have a lot to be grateful for 
I’ve also learnt when I went through this 5 years ago, it’s best to just ’shut up and pay up’.
Regarding Anderson. You’re right. I feel upset when he’s not playing. Thinking back, I think my mood was set when I didn’t see him in the starting line-up. Still, I hoped he can prove something when comming on. Well, you know how that went.
One thing I do agree about is that Fletch is currently the best of the sad lot (that includes Andy).
As a matter of interest, my take on Andy is, the best way I can describe it is with cars (my other passion).
IMO, Andy is like a TVR. Brute force, no ABS, no ESP. Not an everyday runner, but classed in the supercar category. Unfortunately, the need was/is for a pick-up truck. So, what did we do, we cut the body and modified it with a loading-bin. Problem is, he might be a pick-up truck, but his heart is still all performance car. Now, he is neither good at performance (aerodynics messed up), nor as work-horse (can’t tame the motor). My greatest fear is that they transplant his engine with a Diesel, which, if he’s going to be played at deep mid, is exactly what will happen. I would rather we learn how to get the best performance out of a TVR. If not, then loan him, sell him, or let him play in the reserves, but for god’s sake, don’t change him.
September 1st, 2009 at 12:44
@Craig Mc: Now this the nicest response I’ve EVER received from you. Thanks.
).
Shows, you don’t have to necessarily agree with someone. Like my wife says to me, sometimes you just have to listen. not give advice, not try to agree or disagree, just listen and try to understand my view. (still battling with that though
September 1st, 2009 at 12:56
craig,andycr7;you’re obviously berba fans from the past. i always enjoyed the higlights involving berba when he was playing for spurs. however you can’t talk about work and berba in the same sentence. berba reminds me a lot of players who are technically gifted and need team tactics to be constructed around them. They also need to play for clubs which are not aiming or are capable of winning championships or leagues. This way they are judged on what they do every 4 matches and not week after week. a player which was lauded here comes to mind riquelme. i doubt wether there is a spot for him in the united team. i think his presence his confusing saf thinking. i’m sure he wants to play him week after week. however at the same time he knows that this would be a mistake. i would prefer that he played owen if fully fit along side roone then berbatov. at least he knows and does make runs. berbatov would not make a run unless there was a guarantee that the ball would be delivered. given his pace this is never possible. berbatov needs the ball played at his feet and then the game slowed down to his tempo. ONCE AGAIN EVERY 4 MATches you will see something brilliant from him. however this doen’t win you anything. it does guarantee winning enough matches to avoid relegation but united is not about this.
September 1st, 2009 at 13:07
@Karl: I’ve been listening to you mate – and lets just say Point Taken
. I think you got a very wise Missus from the sounds of it Karl – you want to make sure you don’t let her get away 
.
I don’t think we will ever get away from the sparring on Red Rants between the the pos fans and the neg fans – if indeed that is what we are
, but it any case your Missus philosophy on dealing with different characters and points of view is not to be sniffed at. Think she perhaps has got it more right than us fellows. That is why THE LADIES, are more than just the fairer sex mate 
.
September 1st, 2009 at 13:10
@Karl: ’shut up and pay up’. That’s the best piece of advice I have had my friend and will ahere to that very philosophy mate
September 1st, 2009 at 13:12
@tom: But Berba ran pronto into the box to receive the excellent thru ball from Nani, although yeah he made a total mess of his attempted shot. I really think it is a FEAR of failure thing at a big club like United though Tom. The fans could help by giving him more support. Also, to be fair Tom, Berba was one of the hardest working players against Wigan, most fans agree on that!
September 1st, 2009 at 13:59
@Craig Mc: Dude, if you are talking about that miss against Arsenal, then watch the replays again. Ball fluffed/bobbled as berba was about to shoot… I’m not saying he is the best finisher etc etc. He’s missed a lot of 1-1, so does our other strikers. May be, you were at the terraces so couldn’t watch replays.
September 1st, 2009 at 14:18
@Stephen: I’d say, the sooner you learn it, the better
(Will not only help during the stressful time before the wedding, but also afterwards).
I know it does not seem like it to you now, but trust me mate “You are in Training”. SHE’s the trainer.
Enjoy the ‘wax-on wax-off’.
September 1st, 2009 at 14:25
Karl:
I am taking all your advice in matey, unfortunately it seems very logical! 
September 1st, 2009 at 14:30
@Craig Mc: Believe me, the day I come declare on here that I left my wife, will be the day I have finally gone stupid. She’s a very wonderful person. Very ‘wise’ for her age (and beautiful too).
She’s perfect.
What is most special about her is how she compliments me. I feel that she’s perfect for me. I have this ‘ability’ to see ‘the bigger picture’. (Used to think it was thru intellect, but lately have come to realise it’s more intuition). Unfortunately, I cannot express myself effectively. She does this extremely well. What’s more, she understands me. What’s even more than that, she has patience with me
September 1st, 2009 at 14:52
@Karl:
, sounds like you got a good thing going on there, and surely with things that good, you should be able always TO LOOK ON THE BRIGHT SIDE OF LIFE! 
couldn’t resist that quip mate 
.
September 1st, 2009 at 14:56
@Stephen: Surely though when LOVE came through your door Bro, LOGIC went out the window, and fell on the life of the poor passerby beneath it
.
September 1st, 2009 at 14:59
@AndyCR7: No I saw the replays Andy, but I didn’t notice that – thanks for sharing
. I just feel for Berba, because I think unlike Rooney, Berba doesn’t cope as well with pressure of expectation upon him since coming to United. I might be wrong though, but I am on Berba’s side!
September 1st, 2009 at 15:03
@Craig Mc:
@Karl: Sounds like you are a lucky man bro.
September 1st, 2009 at 15:12
@Craig Mc: It might surprise you that I am actually very positive person.
Like I said, it’s more a case of I’m pissed-off at what’s happening at OT. Maybe I’m a control freak, but I hate it when things go a certain direction and I have absolutely no control over it. Perhaps I’m venting my dissapointment here, hoping that if enough people understand the situation, maybe it will reach someone’s ear that can actually do something about it. I don’t know. Or maybe this is the ideal place to cancel out my yin with my yang. Whatever, I still enjoy it.
September 1st, 2009 at 15:21
@Karl: I think a bit of that positivity is coming through now – but m’thinks it all comes from your wife
. You probably get on so well because you are the ying/yang to each other – you know opposites attract etc. You pick up her rosy outlook, and she your more cautious insight of what might be round the corner. Is she a United fan then, or does she like most women hate football 
.
September 1st, 2009 at 15:22
@Karl: Things are not that bad mate, we have had the best start to a season for years, you never know we might win the league again.
September 1st, 2009 at 15:45
@Craig Mc: She was. She’s pisssed off that Tevez left. (She most probably saw some of me in Tevez, looks wise).
@Stephen: It’s not winning the league that bothers me…it’s the entertainment value of our football. That’s what I’ve been crying about all along. But, I don’t really want to get into that again.
September 1st, 2009 at 17:25
@NicoQB: Yes he is. Foster is a world class git.
September 1st, 2009 at 17:29
@Red Ranter: Yes it was in bad taste and I apologize to Stephen about it but the fact is that if you are in agreement with the Craigmeister, he lavishes all kinds of charm and love your way. When you are on opposite ends with him on an issue, you are categorized as a whiner etc. So yes I was wrong but even I can’t help myself sometimes because the Dark Side takes over. Sorry.
September 1st, 2009 at 17:32
@Stephen: Sorry about that mate. In trying to get a message out to Craig it was necessary to take some casualties or collateral damage. I apologize to you but I’m just a little pissed off about being referred to as a whiner while others who agree with Craig are lavished with love and kisses. It really had nothing to do with you but it upset you so again, very sorry about that.
September 1st, 2009 at 17:40
@Monkwahhdo: Mate I take no offense because I fully admit to being a glass half empty person. I’m 50 and I have lived through a lot of ups and a lot of downs in my life. Some others on here have only recently stopped wearing diapers and are bold and very positive with their outlook on life and Man Utd, and all the power to them, good for them. But I have been around the block a few times and I have seen the good with the bad and I have experienced the good and quite a bit of the bad. In my world experience and especially life experience means a lot. I used to argue with my father over things and never took his wisdom or life experience well because I used to hide behind my two university degrees and intellect and thought I knew more. Well I didn’t. Life, years and life experience from 50 years have taught me more than any school ever did. So if I am negative or if I accept things as a glass half full, people need to not only understand that perspective, but respect it as it is coming from somebody who has truly lived a life.
So I thank you for putting some people straight and explaining to them the differences we all have and how those differences are what make this blog as great as it is. One thing we all should be united and in agreement over is that we are all football fans and we are above all, die hard Man Utd supporters. It’s just that some of us support in different ways and require or demand different things from our team to find contentment and happiness.
September 1st, 2009 at 17:45
@Fred The Red: Well that’s a nice backhanded compliment. Why thank you mate.
I guess it’s just not a popular year for MERIT.
September 1st, 2009 at 18:01
@Monkwahhdo: It’s so refreshing to meet someone who actually reads and can comprehend the writing of someone who thinks before he writes and plans out his arguments. If I am ever negative, it’s because I believe I have reason to be. I love the game and our team and I am used to specific things with an Alex Ferguson team over twenty years that I am not seeing right now. Great midfield, great goalkeeping and a fast brave attacking mentality, especially at home. When I do not see our players playing or functioning properly, I will say so. If I see our tactics and team selection and question why it is like that, I will say so. If I see our team manage the business end and not buy need players to improve the side, I will question that too. Why? Because after 20 years I expect it from Fergie and United. Hell I demand it. I may not be a season ticket holder or a regular supporter in the stands but I pay for my Manchester United fix and I purchase items all the time whereby much of the money goes into the coffers of the glazer’s. Above all, I have been royally spoilt over 20 years to expect a certain kind of team and kind of play from my team and this has all come to an abrupt stop over the past 15 months. Therefore, I feel I have a right to be upset and “NEGATIVE”.
I wasn’t always negative. In fact I cannot count the hundreds and hundreds of time I have been very positive, humorous and friendly on this site. I just don’t take well to being labeled, insulted and dissected like some kind of sick alien species. It’s rude, disrespectful towards me and I have always disliked others telling me what and how I should think. This is why I have gotten the reputation as being a downer and negative. Because I don’t let others force their personal opinions and demands on me. I have something to say and I usually back it up with well thought out arguments.
Quite often all I get back is an argument not on what I said, but the fact that I said it. Now why I am supposed to just sit back and take that in a positive manner is beyond me. I am a fighter and I will fight to protect myself and my rights from people who attack my person, not my views. And that’s what happens here a lot. I come up with something unpopular or negative and rather than debate me on the merits of what I just said, they would rather attack my right to say it or me personally as some kind of negative venom spewing reptile. It’s so incredibly unfair. Therefore, I thank you again for seeing the logic in what and who I am and not finding offense in my right to cheer on my team in my own way.
September 1st, 2009 at 18:06
@NicoQB: He’d still be a useless git and an overrated albatross around our collective necks.
September 1st, 2009 at 18:10
@NicoQB: Don’t play the race card with me Nico. I’m not even German. If I have a bias towards German keepers, trust me, it’s because they deserve and have earned it. And anyone who actually knows anything about the game and that position would be hard pressed to disagree with me. By the way, I also like Frey, Akinfeev, Casillas and numerous other non German keepers. So stick your little comments in th toilet where they belong , because I don’t appreciated being labeled a racist or biased. Foster is in my doghouse not because his last name is Foster or that he is English. It’s because he is totally fucking useless. What part of that don’t you understand?
September 1st, 2009 at 18:12
@Footy4Eddy: If Foster were German he would be in Bundesliga 2.
September 1st, 2009 at 18:28
@Grognard: all joking aside mate I can see some logic in many of the negative brigades arguments and I have some myself, its just that I think some of the criticism went way beyond reality, it might eventually go pear shaped but atleast lets wait until it does, personally I dont think it will, but our team will have to improve if we are to mount a serious challenge, which I think we will.
September 1st, 2009 at 18:30
@Monkwahhdo: I am not some old curmudgeon who sits in a wheelchair or rocking chair, smokes his pipe and acts angry and miserable all day while downing a bottle of whiskey. I may be 50 but I am a young 50 in heart and soul. The fact that I don’t tolerate mediocrity and bullshit doesn’t make me a miserable old bastard. It just makes me someone who looks out for his best interests and who takes no crap from others. I hate being labeled and for people assuming the worst of me when they really don’t know shit about me.
I am a scholar by trade and I have been taught and conditioned to argue a point or a stance and to back it up with facts and passion or at least a valid argument. The fact that many on here do not have the intellectual capacity to argue a point with me without getting angry, personal and defensive, is not my fault. That may sound arrogant but quite often I see a lot of arguments thrown my way which reminds me of men who come to a gunfight with butter knives.
Bottom line is if they cannot debate me because they cannot articulate or form their own argument to defeat me, they decide to get personal with me and would rather insult me or label because they do not have the ammunition to beat me on logic or respect to the topic. I honestly am not that nasty a person but some bring it out in me because like any human being, I have a temper, and intolerance meter and a breaking point and above all, I am proud and very much a self preservationist.
I have said many many times in the past that if one can counter my point with one of their’s that is well thought out out, logical and strong, I will give them credit even if I disagree. At least they are involved in a debate. But instead what I get is an accusation that I am not a true fan or I am a doom and gloom merchant or a miserable old grouch or a negative influence who needs to take a chill pill. That is so boring and so predictable and it’s so incredibly deflating and disappointing because I expect so much more from people, instead of their little and petty attempts to hurt and abuse me and get what they see as the upper hand. Little Napoleons are running rampant on this blog. Short little buggers who just need to be in charge.
And although I am telling you all this because you have shown strong perspective and understanding of myself, I really don’t care anymore what the others think of me. I am growing a thicker skin as we speak so from now I let most insults slide or I refuse to get into long drawn out arguments that serve no purpose. I just felt you deserved a clear explanation of who I am and what I am all about. One thing I have definitely stopped thinking is that anyone on a blog could possibly be my friend. I was very naive for along time and I expected the best from people. I was wrong and I am better now. 
September 1st, 2009 at 18:37
@Footy4Eddy: Why don’t you work on a video of a player who has earned it because of his greatness and someone who is worth your time and effort mate. Besides how can a video about Foster last longer than ten seconds, unless you show all his gaffs too?
September 1st, 2009 at 19:04
@Redrich: Thanks mate. The big difference between them and me is that if I am proven wrong, I am more than man enough and have the bollocks to admit I was wrong and eat some humble pie. Funny how that hasn’t been happening a lot over the past year though. But as for my detractors, well they are just not going to ever admit to their own ideas or theories and forlorn prognostications (OOPS! probably too big a word for them to understand
) being wrong. And yet time after time I am proven right and still, I get not one ounce of credit or respect for it. Instead they look at me as if I am to blame or that I spread some kind of negative virus on the team that caused them to play that way.
There are few like you who have the courage of their own convictions to stand up and question the status quo. Under the Bush regime these people were arrested and interrogated by Homeland Security for un American activities. Next thing you and I and some others will be vilified publicly by members of this blog for un United activities.
Truthfully, I am tired of being treated like a Scouser on this blog by some. You’re either with them and positive or you are dirt and should be tortured. And still, every week I am proven right far more often than I am proven wrong but you’ll never hear them admit it. If the media is in agreement with me, they are insulted and called biased scum from London who know nothing. Why? Because they are not in agreement with the United mob. Over the past few weeks I debunked everybody’s notion that United would go after one more player like a Robben or a keeper. As if watching and listening to Fergie for twenty years hasn’t taught me something about the arrogantly, stubborn old cuss. I knew he was going to do nothing by the deadline. But would I get an ounce of credit for having predicted that, back when many rumors were peculating about a last ditch buy? And lets not even get to the predictions of how the team would play this season. They have been total rubbish for every game except the second half against Wigan. But the truth is debunked because they are 3-1. As misleading a statistic as has ever been seen.
We are in a no win position mate. We are truly the minority in a very right wing environment ironically being moderated and run by a very fair and liberal person. The bullies have got to come out and play and enforce their do’s and don’ts on some of us. Well, like you told me to grow a thicker skin, I say that I have and that we all just have to get used to the abuse and if we still want to be heard, then just ignore those who are negative towards our right to be negative from time to time. I hate the term negative. I don’t like being labeled as negative. I am honest and truthful based on my own knowledge and feelings on something. Why must that be seen as negative just because I choose to see things from what I perceive to be the true reality? Frustrating to be sure. Anyway, we shall strive forward and move on as they say. Sometimes I feel like Obama does trying to show common sense and fairness in the health care debate only to be called a death merchant by ignorant assholes who fall prey to the salesmanship of greedy insurance companies and and right wing politicians with an agenda. Sometimes, people just don’t want the truth I guess.
September 1st, 2009 at 19:07
@Redrich: Fergie has misused many. He pigeonholes players and places them in positions that he feels make his team better, not the player. Then when the player like Anderson and Veron do not perform, it’s usually the player’s fault in the eyes of the public. Forlan is another classic case of a player misused. 20 to 30 goals a season in Spain cannot be wrong. Only Fergie is wrong. OOOOH! Blasphemy, I have spoken blasphemy. I will go and whip myself 10 times for that.
September 1st, 2009 at 19:17
@Fred The Red: No, what is a crime is to think that none of us who are negative have the brain capacity to differentiate between now and the early pre Ferguson 80’s. That’s really the only argument you have isn’t it? Piling on with the 80’s or with 1974? Why not stick to the Ferguson era alone? God knows it’s been long enough to compare periods. Over 98% of his tenure this team played a specific type of football and succeeded very well in that manner. During that period we had very few periods in which we ndid not have an overpowering midfield and goalkeeping that was top notch. Yes we had a few games with Taibi, and the Barthez and Bosnic period but the team at least played attractive fast paced attacking football during all of that time. Whenever we lost a major star, another one replaced him. We never and I mean never ever played 4-5-1 and with so much caution against any team at Old Trafford. Last Saturday was not anti football as Wenger put it. It was ANTI- UNITED. And that mate, is a viewpoint that has nothing to do with the pre Ferguson era. That viewpoint has 100% to do with the FERGUSON ERA AND IS A DIRECT ACCUSATION OF COMPLETE DISSATISFACTION WITH OUR BELOVED MANAGER. So how’s that for negative? The truth often comes in negative packages.
Fred, you may be red with pride. These days I am red with rage over what is happening to my beloved United. I am spoilt on success and attractive football and I want my old United back. Is that too negative for you?
September 1st, 2009 at 19:24
@Fred The Red: At least we sit here and argue it to death rather than hit and run. I’d call that being a fair weather blogger.
September 1st, 2009 at 19:30
@Fred The Red: Constructive criticism is seen as negative by the Glee Club on this site because it has something negative at it’s root. So whether it is constructive or destructive doesn’t make a difference because those who criticize get put down and insulted anyway. There are those on this site who would ban any criticism whatsoever because it offends their sensibilities and the good vibes they are feeling in their personal lives.
September 1st, 2009 at 19:34
@Red Ranter: Above all, when someone like myself has warned of certain things and complained about them for a fairly long time, he should not be seen as fickle if all his predictions look like they are coming true. Everything I predicted about our team’s play has come true except we have won 3 of 4. But lets take two of those wins and throw them in the crapper based on how they played on the day. Often the result outweighs the reality of how the team played. In the past we have lost games where we outplayed the opposition. This season we have won games where we deserved to lose. That should not dull people’s minds form the reality of how the team has played as a unit or tactically.
September 1st, 2009 at 19:34
@Grognard: There is no moral high ground whether one debates something to death or not — it’s a frikkin’ debate on a football club, so let’s not make this more than what it actually is.
This debate was over with yesterday so I’d prefer we don’t dig this up again. I know you will cite time difference, but sometimes it’s healthy for yourself to let this lie.
Thanks.
September 1st, 2009 at 19:35
@Fred The Red: Read everything I wrote months ago about my prognosticating for the team and this season. I sure wouldn’t call that fickle. I’d call myself Nostradamus more like it.
September 1st, 2009 at 19:38
@Red Ranter: Fair enough, but I always get the short end of the stick because of time zone don’t I? By the time I wake up and respond to my detractors, you have started another topic and so I’m left with my replies blowing in the wind. Not your fault but the time difference gives me a considerable disadvantage in replying to comments.
September 1st, 2009 at 19:40
@Grognard: Mate, this happened last night and I am just 2 hrs ahead of you. And Redrich who was in thick of this debate was in the exact same time zone as you. Anyway, sometimes, it’s healthier on yourself to have missed some of the sparring.
September 1st, 2009 at 19:41
@Craig Mc: What about the blitzing RedRich and myself are getting? Why do we not get the same kind of respect, sympathy and consideration? HMMM???? I guess we pick and choose our allies. Not too long ago I was one of your allies. Then somebody changed and had a life upgrade and now Grognard’s just a negative old grouch.
September 1st, 2009 at 19:46
@Red Ranter: Agreed, but when it’s directed at you, sometimes the devil inside just can’t stop you from responding. Anyway, I choose to question these folks about their viewpoints. I no longer want to get into very heated angry and bitter arguments. But I still do like to respond to the accusations directed or indirectly referring to me and to those who are more like me. I am especially unsettle buy the fact that there are individuals on here who have in the past gotten in to trouble with you over their negativity or hostility and who I personally stuck up for on the blog or personally to you over e-mails, and who now have turned on me in a most unpleasant way. I now know how Christ felt. Fortunately I am not so holy nor as forgiving.
September 1st, 2009 at 19:49
@Karl: Beautifully said mate. And if I am accused of kissing your ass over those comments, then consider it a long distance smooch right on your backside. That was really well said and I couldn’t have put it better. But you wanna bet many still don’t get it?
September 1st, 2009 at 19:52
@Grognard: some things in life are worth arguing to death over, in fact somethings in life are worth dying for, football aint one of them my friend and as passionate as I can be about United to realise what is important in life is more important to me than arguing about football, if I told you I am a Born Again Christian, Im sure you can work out what Im trying to say mate.
September 1st, 2009 at 19:54
@Karl: Interesting what you say about Fletcher because that’s exactly how I feel. I just don’t get why all the praise. When we were a great side playing attacking football, a Fletcher style performance wouldn’t even have received the time of day. But these days, were scrounging in the junk bin for positives aren’t we? The problem with appreciating or not appreciating Fletcher is he is in desperate need of a central midfield partner that offers the team the attack and ball retention part of the game we lack. A Paul Scholes version 1999. Fletcher cannot even be compared to Hargo or especially Keane because he is not in their class. But boy he has got the blue collar types howling in delight. I for one just don’t get it.
September 1st, 2009 at 19:54
@Grognard: Nostradamus was a false prophet by the way
September 1st, 2009 at 20:03
@Fred The Red: Agreed. But I for one never feel that I am going over the top with anything I say. It may seem like that to you or to others but everything i say is well thought out. And yes sometimes I do show my anger towards the team more than I should but I am not one for senseless knee jerk reactions, whether others want to believe that or not. What needs to stop on this site is the constant labeling of negative and positive on people. I am both negative and positive but I get very little credit or feedback for my positive comments (and they are plenty). That’s why I tend to get bent out of shape at times. I also get upset with some who take offense to my negative comments but when they get all defensive and negative, well that’s ok. And they all know who they are. Anyway, enough about that. Welcome back and don’t let hot or neg@#$%^ opinions steer you away again.
September 1st, 2009 at 20:12
@Fred The Red: And if I tell you I lost my faith in God a few years back you will know what I am saying. AHAH! Fooled you. I have not lost my faith in God but I do not fall into slavery (to others freedom) over religion as I am my own man and live my life as I want to. I have my happy times and my not so happy times. I am single with no kids and one parent who is 92 and in hospital. So please forgive me if I do fall back on football as being a bit more important than it should. Although I do believe in God and accept religion, of late I admit Manchester United is my religion. It fills a void in my life. Sad perhaps, but that’s me.
Simply put, at this point in my life football fills a massive vacuum, and that is my vice to carry. I’m sure others out there who are married with children and have many friends and family just smothering them with love and attention may feel completely different than me. But I get by and I try to be nice and friendly to everyone I meet and to everyone that knows and loves me. And yet others turn to drugs, booze or other forms of addiction to cope with life’s ups and downs. I choose footy. So yes, United is a big part of my life, perhaps too big. But it’s a vice I carry with pride and this season with frustration and anguish as well. I guess I am a spoilt Unied fan and I want more of the old menu, not the present one.
September 1st, 2009 at 20:14
@Fred The Red: I am the newer revised and more improved version.
September 1st, 2009 at 20:25
@Grognard: football fills the vacuum in alot of peoples life mate and it is something that troubles me whenever you take stock of whats happening in the world today, the breakdown in moral vales, the destruction of the family unit and the descent of society into relativism. Football is what it is, an entertainment, when it becomes more than that then it becomes a dangerous opium of the masses that takes a person prisoner and shields him from the realities of life.
September 1st, 2009 at 23:09
@Fred The Red: Now you are overreacting. I never take it that seriously. I may be hard edged, opinionated and controversial, but I don’t see the problems of the world through the game of football. But football is also0 a business. A business that makes millions and millions a year off all our hard earned wages. As fans and as customers of theirs, they owe it to us to produce and provide the quality product we are accustomed to. That ranges and differs with every club but United are a Rolls Royce and therefore, there customers are used to a specific type of team and quality of play. And if we don’t get that, we have a right to bitch and complain.
September 2nd, 2009 at 0:33
@Fred The Red: “Football is what it is, an entertainment”
If you ponder long and hard on this, your own statement, then you will see exactly what Grognard is on about. People say he is negative, I don’t think so. Depends on what you define as negative.
Ever since I can remember, Grognard has been moaning about the entertainment value of our current football at Manchester United. That is where the problem lies. There is none. It’s supposed to be, but its not. Instead, because the manager is focussed on winning, he has adopted a win-at-all-costs mentality. This would have been ok if he had not spoilt us with the ‘win-with-style’ mentality first.
We’re not a Manchester City that have to prove we can win. We know we can. We need to win in style.
Him proclaiming that standpoint should actually be regarded as positive, regarding on your point of reference.
September 2nd, 2009 at 0:37
@Grognard: For what its worth, I understand what you’re all about and appreciate you comments (even if you dislike Anderson
)
I might not always agree (seem to on most occasions), but I do understand, and appreciate.
September 2nd, 2009 at 0:53
@Grognard: @Karl: without getting into a deep philosophical debate with you guys I think you missed the point of what I was trying to say.
If you look at football as an entertainment then you are right, to win with style should be the name of the game. The point I was making was that in the grand scheme of things, football is not as important as we sometimes make it, which is the reason why I don’t argue things to death.
If football so preoccupies someones thinking so that he does not pay attention to the more serious things in life then it becomes a dangerous thing. Now I’m not saying you guys are guilty of this, I’m simply trying to point out to Grognard were football lies in my list of priorities and why sometimes I take a break from ranting on this site from time to time.
September 2nd, 2009 at 2:32
@Karl: And I greatly appreciate the fact that you understand Karl. It means a lot to know there are a few individuals out there who are not part of the mob. You have captured my motivation very accurately but you have left out one aspect to what makes me tick. As much as I expect the club to win and win with style, it requires quality players to do that. There is nothing that has bothered me about our club more in the past twenty seasons than what Fergie and or the glazer’s have not done with the 80 million they received for Ronaldo. So as much as they have not used it for players, what upsets me more than the way we play is being lied to by the Boss and the club. It just rubs me the wrong way because unlike many, I am not a sucker to be trifled with.
I was not born yesterday and I have spent too many hours in a few too many board rooms to buy into the excuses that Fergie was shoving down our throats. That more than anything is what has really gotten me to go all negative on United and Fergie. I want him to retire and I want the Glazer’s to sell the team and fuck off because as far as I am concerned, they are all traitors to the the cause. I cannot tell you how disappointed and disenchanted I have become with SAF. A man I loved and believed in and who had brought so many years of value, winning and entertainment to us all, but who for some inexplicable reason, has turned his back on all the supporters by backing the current owners policy and who has adopted a cowardly defensive and uninspiring style of play because he feels his legacy is missing more European Cups. It’s sad he has become like those and it’s even sadder so many of our die hard fans have yet to see through him and through the team’s corporate coldness. I may be wrong regarding him, but he hasn’t exactly been up front and clear with us for a number of years. He just says what he wants and speaks in riddles and we have to accept his stories even if they are BS. This Ronaldo business will always leave me cold and numb.
Oh and maybe I wouldn’t dislike Anderson so much had Ferguson handled him properly and played him in his natural position and allowed him to be the player he was rather than molding him into something he wasn’t.
September 2nd, 2009 at 2:42
@Grognard: I’m sorry, but if you think managers speak the truth (and if that’s your main beef) then you are being naive for a person of your supposed knowledge. Newsflash: Of course everyone lies. Wenger lies, Mourinho lies, Abramovich lies, Daniel Levy lies, Ferguson has almost always lied during his tenure (and if you haven’t seen that earlier, then I can’t help you).
I don’t have a problem with you being pissed off at the club. But your reasons seem a bit naive to me. Because Ferguson turned his back on supporters a long time ago, if you really think about it. The moment he sided with Glazers should have been the breaking point for you in the first place.
It makes sense if you are angry maybe because of his transfer strategy/tactics etc. But if the reasons were the Glazers and his turning his back on supporters etc, then I should say it’s a pretty late reaction by about 4 yrs. at least and strikes me as a little strange.
My support for Ferguson is despite the knowledge of his disregard for what fans think and despite the Glazers’ apathy towards the club as an institution.
September 2nd, 2009 at 2:48
@Karl: I have never ever followed any team in pro sports that wins ugly. It has always been teams that win with style. That’s just who I am. I hate lunch bucket brigades with blue collar players that work their ass off and have not one ounce of talent among them. I love beauty and finesse in football. United unlike any other team I’ve seen since the late 80’s embodied all the elements required to not just win, but win with style. And before people start throwing the names of Arsenal at me, I said embodied all the qualities. Arsenal never had CLASS and Chelsea never will. Liverpool have lacked class, talent, style , grit and good taste, so consider them useless.
United had tough players but those players could also make a run or take a shot and score great goals. Now we have a brigade of very soft players who lack that extra element I am looking for. I actually felt this the season we one the Champions League and league in 2007/08. We won despite not having a great eal of steel and grit and what I considered a true leader.
Before Fergie showed up United were still my favorite club in England but they weren’t even close to Bayern Munich. I still love Bayern a lot but Fergie’s clubs just began to take my breath away and the arrival of Cantona completely seduced and enchanted me like no other time in my football watching life. I just loved watching him, Giggsy, Beckham delivering those free kicks and crosses and it just got better and better.
Even when we never won the league we were still by far the most attractive team in the league to watch and we had steel in players like Keane, Ince, Bruce etc. Players who took no prisoners and showed no mercy. Now we are stuck with the Evra’s, Anderson’s, and Parks of the world. Players with nor grit or steel and players who I feel are just soft. I only truly regard Vidic and Rooney as our only hard edged players. And I am still looking for a leader to run this club on the pitch. Who cares about 1974 or the early 80’s. I am talking about the Ferguson era. An era of excellence and expectations. And all of a sudden, our expectations are not being met. Well, I blame Fergie and the club for spoiling me rotten.
September 2nd, 2009 at 11:04
@Grognard: I understand exactly what you mean. I share the same.
When I said I “I understand what you’re all about”, I did not mean it in a sense like I know exactly what and who you are, and what makes you tick. You’re too dynamic for that. I perhaps used he wrong phrase. But, I think you know what I meant. Just thought I’d highlight that.
No matter what excuses people make, I hate it when somone lie to me. Regardless of who s/he is. It shows a lack of respect IMO.
September 2nd, 2009 at 16:24
@Karl: Exactly. I especially hate it when politicians lie and other officals we put our trust in. I’ve often felt that sports people take themselves and their businesses to seriously and in football you have all this cloak and dagger stuff going on. Secret deals and secrecy in general and in all that, thew club’s forget who really pays their wages. Fergie shows far too much respect to the lame ass owners of the club and not enough to the millions and millions of supporters. But lying to us for me is the final straw. One would have to be deaf, dumb and stupid to not recognize Fergie’s lies of late. All designed to protect the owners of the team and it makes me sick.
September 4th, 2009 at 21:57
@ Red Ranter!
Gr8 blog
I am a bog fan of Scott the Red at RoM but i have to accept one thing. He is over optimistic about United all the time. Its more than belief! Sometimes we have to accept the reality like you’ve done over here.