Aug 31
All three points as fortune favours United
Scott at Republik of Mancunia made a valiant effort at throwing a positive spin on Saturday’s result. Of course, it was a win after all, so, really, what can be more positive than that? And he did a good job of trying to alleviate certain shreds of negativism that may have afflicted a lot of United fans.
However, if you were to ask me what I thought of yesterday, I’d say it’s among the strangest matches I’ve ever seen against ‘big four’ opposition. (Yes, even the 1-0 at Anfield, many moons ago, felt different. In that game the win tasted sweet. Here, I really don’t know what I’m having.)
Having made pronouncements at the start of the season on the need for the likes of Berbatov and Rooney to step up, the return of the four-four-two formation, it was surprising (to put it mildly) to see Ferguson falling back on old habits employed in recent years when faced with good opposition. This was a home game, Arsenal’s midfield was unlikely to be as physical as say, Chelsea, and we needed to test a new Arsenal defence.
But Ferguson went with a 4-5-1 (or a 4-3-3, if you please), opting for Giggs to play in the ‘hole’. The first 45 minutes resulted in attritional football from both sides, and it took a gifted footballer, in the form of Arshavin, to create a goal out of nowhere.
The second half saw marginal improvement as Giggs stepped up his game. However, anything positive we had to show for was marred by Michael Carrick, who was very poor, losing the ball far too often. There were quite a lot of culprits on the day, and it would be unfair to pin the blame on one specific player, but Carrick stood out like a colossus of mediocrity.
I might be sounding like a broken record right now, but we lack the thrust from midfield, someone direct enough to not only run at goal, but also bring in the likes of Berbatov into the game as well as not be shot shy. But it showed yesterday in the way Rooney was isolated upfront.
Statistics will paint a much different picture, but there are a lot of intangibles that make a match. I will be doubtless accused of negativity, but I missed a spark I expect from United sides; something that makes us tick. [For argument's sake that person was Diaby on Saturday, but then...] However, I will take United wins regardless of how they come, although the aftertaste might not be necessarily great.
A few words on players that emerged with a lot of credibility: Patrice Evra has been fantastic this season. He had a slowish start, but over the past two-three games has been outstanding, and doing some of the offensive work we’d expect from our wingers. Nani seems to continue showing improvement and decision making, and I want Ferguson to persist with him. And Fletcher had a fantastic game breaking up play and was all over the place. He is limited in his distribution (and lost the ball on several occasions) but as a defensive midfielder he had a massive say on the result.
Ben Foster had a mixed game. He’s an excellent shot-stopper, but I am still to be convinced over his ability to deal with crosses. At times he’s dealt with them perfectly and at times he’s flapped — a strict no-go, for a defence that prides itself on clean sheets.
The match will however be known for some absolutely inept refereeing from Mike Dean who did his best to stop the flow of the match at every chance he had, and also tried to be the centre of attention. Sending off Wenger for kicking a bottle was ridiculous (albeit amusing — honestly, that image above has to be one of the iconic images of this season). However, Wenger insinuating that the ref was favouring ‘one side’ just because it was being played at Old Trafford has to be among the most bitter, thinly disguised tirades of this season. I have never subscribed to the conspiracy theory of referees be it on any ground involving any opposition. I think they are professionals expected to do their jobs and in their mistakes are out of their incompetence rather than any hidden agenda. But that’s Wenger being Wenger, and I wouldn’t want to waste my time with that. Arsenal fans have a right to feel aggrieved at the result, although I wouldn’t subscribe to their bleating about their ‘bossing’ of the game.
And finally, Rooney didn’t dive. He played for the foul, but didn’t dive. Almunia made a meal of it by lunging like a mad man and fell for it. I saw very little protest from the Arsenal players even, to justify debating this at all.
This ends part one of three matches that will go some way in saying what kind of side we are (I would still say we will see very little champagne football, and more “1-0 to the United” type. But let’s wait and see, eh?) Spurs and Man City are up next — with Champions’ League fixture in between against Besiktas — following a long international break.
Related items from Red Rants:
- Will There Be Last Day Luck or Disappointment for United?
- Sunderland vs Manchester United: Preview
- Match Review: Aston Villa 2-2 Manchester United
- Boro v Man Utd: Preview
- Manchester United vs Bursaspor: Match Preview
Tags: Match Reports
Opti (541)
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RedDevilEddy (461)
Craig Mc (348)
Moscow is my heaven (272)
@NicoQB: Don’t play the race card with me Nico. I’m not even German. If I have a bias towards German keepers, trust me, it’s because they deserve and have earned it. And anyone who actually knows anything about the game and that position would be hard pressed to disagree with me. By the way, I also like Frey, Akinfeev, Casillas and numerous other non German keepers. So stick your little comments in th toilet where they belong , because I don’t appreciated being labeled a racist or biased. Foster is in my doghouse not because his last name is Foster or that he is English. It’s because he is totally fucking useless. What part of that don’t you understand?
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@Footy4Eddy: If Foster were German he would be in Bundesliga 2.
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@Grognard: all joking aside mate I can see some logic in many of the negative brigades arguments and I have some myself, its just that I think some of the criticism went way beyond reality, it might eventually go pear shaped but atleast lets wait until it does, personally I dont think it will, but our team will have to improve if we are to mount a serious challenge, which I think we will.
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@Monkwahhdo: I am not some old curmudgeon who sits in a wheelchair or rocking chair, smokes his pipe and acts angry and miserable all day while downing a bottle of whiskey. I may be 50 but I am a young 50 in heart and soul. The fact that I don’t tolerate mediocrity and bullshit doesn’t make me a miserable old bastard. It just makes me someone who looks out for his best interests and who takes no crap from others. I hate being labeled and for people assuming the worst of me when they really don’t know shit about me.
I am a scholar by trade and I have been taught and conditioned to argue a point or a stance and to back it up with facts and passion or at least a valid argument. The fact that many on here do not have the intellectual capacity to argue a point with me without getting angry, personal and defensive, is not my fault. That may sound arrogant but quite often I see a lot of arguments thrown my way which reminds me of men who come to a gunfight with butter knives.
Bottom line is if they cannot debate me because they cannot articulate or form their own argument to defeat me, they decide to get personal with me and would rather insult me or label because they do not have the ammunition to beat me on logic or respect to the topic. I honestly am not that nasty a person but some bring it out in me because like any human being, I have a temper, and intolerance meter and a breaking point and above all, I am proud and very much a self preservationist.
I have said many many times in the past that if one can counter my point with one of their’s that is well thought out out, logical and strong, I will give them credit even if I disagree. At least they are involved in a debate. But instead what I get is an accusation that I am not a true fan or I am a doom and gloom merchant or a miserable old grouch or a negative influence who needs to take a chill pill. That is so boring and so predictable and it’s so incredibly deflating and disappointing because I expect so much more from people, instead of their little and petty attempts to hurt and abuse me and get what they see as the upper hand. Little Napoleons are running rampant on this blog. Short little buggers who just need to be in charge.
And although I am telling you all this because you have shown strong perspective and understanding of myself, I really don’t care anymore what the others think of me. I am growing a thicker skin as we speak so from now I let most insults slide or I refuse to get into long drawn out arguments that serve no purpose. I just felt you deserved a clear explanation of who I am and what I am all about. One thing I have definitely stopped thinking is that anyone on a blog could possibly be my friend. I was very naive for along time and I expected the best from people. I was wrong and I am better now. 
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@Footy4Eddy: Why don’t you work on a video of a player who has earned it because of his greatness and someone who is worth your time and effort mate. Besides how can a video about Foster last longer than ten seconds, unless you show all his gaffs too?
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@Redrich: Thanks mate. The big difference between them and me is that if I am proven wrong, I am more than man enough and have the bollocks to admit I was wrong and eat some humble pie. Funny how that hasn’t been happening a lot over the past year though. But as for my detractors, well they are just not going to ever admit to their own ideas or theories and forlorn prognostications (OOPS! probably too big a word for them to understand
) being wrong. And yet time after time I am proven right and still, I get not one ounce of credit or respect for it. Instead they look at me as if I am to blame or that I spread some kind of negative virus on the team that caused them to play that way.
There are few like you who have the courage of their own convictions to stand up and question the status quo. Under the Bush regime these people were arrested and interrogated by Homeland Security for un American activities. Next thing you and I and some others will be vilified publicly by members of this blog for un United activities.
Truthfully, I am tired of being treated like a Scouser on this blog by some. You’re either with them and positive or you are dirt and should be tortured. And still, every week I am proven right far more often than I am proven wrong but you’ll never hear them admit it. If the media is in agreement with me, they are insulted and called biased scum from London who know nothing. Why? Because they are not in agreement with the United mob. Over the past few weeks I debunked everybody’s notion that United would go after one more player like a Robben or a keeper. As if watching and listening to Fergie for twenty years hasn’t taught me something about the arrogantly, stubborn old cuss. I knew he was going to do nothing by the deadline. But would I get an ounce of credit for having predicted that, back when many rumors were peculating about a last ditch buy? And lets not even get to the predictions of how the team would play this season. They have been total rubbish for every game except the second half against Wigan. But the truth is debunked because they are 3-1. As misleading a statistic as has ever been seen.
We are in a no win position mate. We are truly the minority in a very right wing environment ironically being moderated and run by a very fair and liberal person. The bullies have got to come out and play and enforce their do’s and don’ts on some of us. Well, like you told me to grow a thicker skin, I say that I have and that we all just have to get used to the abuse and if we still want to be heard, then just ignore those who are negative towards our right to be negative from time to time. I hate the term negative. I don’t like being labeled as negative. I am honest and truthful based on my own knowledge and feelings on something. Why must that be seen as negative just because I choose to see things from what I perceive to be the true reality? Frustrating to be sure. Anyway, we shall strive forward and move on as they say. Sometimes I feel like Obama does trying to show common sense and fairness in the health care debate only to be called a death merchant by ignorant assholes who fall prey to the salesmanship of greedy insurance companies and and right wing politicians with an agenda. Sometimes, people just don’t want the truth I guess.
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@Redrich: Fergie has misused many. He pigeonholes players and places them in positions that he feels make his team better, not the player. Then when the player like Anderson and Veron do not perform, it’s usually the player’s fault in the eyes of the public. Forlan is another classic case of a player misused. 20 to 30 goals a season in Spain cannot be wrong. Only Fergie is wrong. OOOOH! Blasphemy, I have spoken blasphemy. I will go and whip myself 10 times for that.
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@Fred The Red: No, what is a crime is to think that none of us who are negative have the brain capacity to differentiate between now and the early pre Ferguson 80′s. That’s really the only argument you have isn’t it? Piling on with the 80′s or with 1974? Why not stick to the Ferguson era alone? God knows it’s been long enough to compare periods. Over 98% of his tenure this team played a specific type of football and succeeded very well in that manner. During that period we had very few periods in which we ndid not have an overpowering midfield and goalkeeping that was top notch. Yes we had a few games with Taibi, and the Barthez and Bosnic period but the team at least played attractive fast paced attacking football during all of that time. Whenever we lost a major star, another one replaced him. We never and I mean never ever played 4-5-1 and with so much caution against any team at Old Trafford. Last Saturday was not anti football as Wenger put it. It was ANTI- UNITED. And that mate, is a viewpoint that has nothing to do with the pre Ferguson era. That viewpoint has 100% to do with the FERGUSON ERA AND IS A DIRECT ACCUSATION OF COMPLETE DISSATISFACTION WITH OUR BELOVED MANAGER. So how’s that for negative? The truth often comes in negative packages.
Fred, you may be red with pride. These days I am red with rage over what is happening to my beloved United. I am spoilt on success and attractive football and I want my old United back. Is that too negative for you?
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@Fred The Red: At least we sit here and argue it to death rather than hit and run. I’d call that being a fair weather blogger.
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@Fred The Red: Constructive criticism is seen as negative by the Glee Club on this site because it has something negative at it’s root. So whether it is constructive or destructive doesn’t make a difference because those who criticize get put down and insulted anyway. There are those on this site who would ban any criticism whatsoever because it offends their sensibilities and the good vibes they are feeling in their personal lives.
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@Red Ranter: Above all, when someone like myself has warned of certain things and complained about them for a fairly long time, he should not be seen as fickle if all his predictions look like they are coming true. Everything I predicted about our team’s play has come true except we have won 3 of 4. But lets take two of those wins and throw them in the crapper based on how they played on the day. Often the result outweighs the reality of how the team played. In the past we have lost games where we outplayed the opposition. This season we have won games where we deserved to lose. That should not dull people’s minds form the reality of how the team has played as a unit or tactically.
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@Grognard: There is no moral high ground whether one debates something to death or not — it’s a frikkin’ debate on a football club, so let’s not make this more than what it actually is.
This debate was over with yesterday so I’d prefer we don’t dig this up again. I know you will cite time difference, but sometimes it’s healthy for yourself to let this lie.
Thanks.
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@Fred The Red: Read everything I wrote months ago about my prognosticating for the team and this season. I sure wouldn’t call that fickle. I’d call myself Nostradamus more like it.
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@Red Ranter: Fair enough, but I always get the short end of the stick because of time zone don’t I? By the time I wake up and respond to my detractors, you have started another topic and so I’m left with my replies blowing in the wind. Not your fault but the time difference gives me a considerable disadvantage in replying to comments.
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@Grognard: Mate, this happened last night and I am just 2 hrs ahead of you. And Redrich who was in thick of this debate was in the exact same time zone as you. Anyway, sometimes, it’s healthier on yourself to have missed some of the sparring.
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@Craig Mc: What about the blitzing RedRich and myself are getting? Why do we not get the same kind of respect, sympathy and consideration? HMMM???? I guess we pick and choose our allies. Not too long ago I was one of your allies. Then somebody changed and had a life upgrade and now Grognard’s just a negative old grouch.
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@Red Ranter: Agreed, but when it’s directed at you, sometimes the devil inside just can’t stop you from responding. Anyway, I choose to question these folks about their viewpoints. I no longer want to get into very heated angry and bitter arguments. But I still do like to respond to the accusations directed or indirectly referring to me and to those who are more like me. I am especially unsettle buy the fact that there are individuals on here who have in the past gotten in to trouble with you over their negativity or hostility and who I personally stuck up for on the blog or personally to you over e-mails, and who now have turned on me in a most unpleasant way. I now know how Christ felt. Fortunately I am not so holy nor as forgiving.
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@Karl: Beautifully said mate. And if I am accused of kissing your ass over those comments, then consider it a long distance smooch right on your backside. That was really well said and I couldn’t have put it better. But you wanna bet many still don’t get it?
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@Grognard: some things in life are worth arguing to death over, in fact somethings in life are worth dying for, football aint one of them my friend and as passionate as I can be about United to realise what is important in life is more important to me than arguing about football, if I told you I am a Born Again Christian, Im sure you can work out what Im trying to say mate.
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@Karl: Interesting what you say about Fletcher because that’s exactly how I feel. I just don’t get why all the praise. When we were a great side playing attacking football, a Fletcher style performance wouldn’t even have received the time of day. But these days, were scrounging in the junk bin for positives aren’t we? The problem with appreciating or not appreciating Fletcher is he is in desperate need of a central midfield partner that offers the team the attack and ball retention part of the game we lack. A Paul Scholes version 1999. Fletcher cannot even be compared to Hargo or especially Keane because he is not in their class. But boy he has got the blue collar types howling in delight. I for one just don’t get it.
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@Grognard: Nostradamus was a false prophet by the way
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@Fred The Red: Agreed. But I for one never feel that I am going over the top with anything I say. It may seem like that to you or to others but everything i say is well thought out. And yes sometimes I do show my anger towards the team more than I should but I am not one for senseless knee jerk reactions, whether others want to believe that or not. What needs to stop on this site is the constant labeling of negative and positive on people. I am both negative and positive but I get very little credit or feedback for my positive comments (and they are plenty). That’s why I tend to get bent out of shape at times. I also get upset with some who take offense to my negative comments but when they get all defensive and negative, well that’s ok. And they all know who they are. Anyway, enough about that. Welcome back and don’t let hot or neg@#$%^ opinions steer you away again.
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@Fred The Red: And if I tell you I lost my faith in God a few years back you will know what I am saying. AHAH! Fooled you. I have not lost my faith in God but I do not fall into slavery (to others freedom) over religion as I am my own man and live my life as I want to. I have my happy times and my not so happy times. I am single with no kids and one parent who is 92 and in hospital. So please forgive me if I do fall back on football as being a bit more important than it should. Although I do believe in God and accept religion, of late I admit Manchester United is my religion. It fills a void in my life. Sad perhaps, but that’s me.
Simply put, at this point in my life football fills a massive vacuum, and that is my vice to carry. I’m sure others out there who are married with children and have many friends and family just smothering them with love and attention may feel completely different than me. But I get by and I try to be nice and friendly to everyone I meet and to everyone that knows and loves me. And yet others turn to drugs, booze or other forms of addiction to cope with life’s ups and downs. I choose footy. So yes, United is a big part of my life, perhaps too big. But it’s a vice I carry with pride and this season with frustration and anguish as well. I guess I am a spoilt Unied fan and I want more of the old menu, not the present one.
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@Fred The Red: I am the newer revised and more improved version.
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@Grognard: football fills the vacuum in alot of peoples life mate and it is something that troubles me whenever you take stock of whats happening in the world today, the breakdown in moral vales, the destruction of the family unit and the descent of society into relativism. Football is what it is, an entertainment, when it becomes more than that then it becomes a dangerous opium of the masses that takes a person prisoner and shields him from the realities of life.
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@Fred The Red: Now you are overreacting. I never take it that seriously. I may be hard edged, opinionated and controversial, but I don’t see the problems of the world through the game of football. But football is also0 a business. A business that makes millions and millions a year off all our hard earned wages. As fans and as customers of theirs, they owe it to us to produce and provide the quality product we are accustomed to. That ranges and differs with every club but United are a Rolls Royce and therefore, there customers are used to a specific type of team and quality of play. And if we don’t get that, we have a right to bitch and complain.
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@Fred The Red: “Football is what it is, an entertainment”
If you ponder long and hard on this, your own statement, then you will see exactly what Grognard is on about. People say he is negative, I don’t think so. Depends on what you define as negative.
Ever since I can remember, Grognard has been moaning about the entertainment value of our current football at Manchester United. That is where the problem lies. There is none. It’s supposed to be, but its not. Instead, because the manager is focussed on winning, he has adopted a win-at-all-costs mentality. This would have been ok if he had not spoilt us with the ‘win-with-style’ mentality first.
We’re not a Manchester City that have to prove we can win. We know we can. We need to win in style.
Him proclaiming that standpoint should actually be regarded as positive, regarding on your point of reference.
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@Grognard: For what its worth, I understand what you’re all about and appreciate you comments (even if you dislike Anderson
)
I might not always agree (seem to on most occasions), but I do understand, and appreciate.
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@Grognard: @Karl: without getting into a deep philosophical debate with you guys I think you missed the point of what I was trying to say.
If you look at football as an entertainment then you are right, to win with style should be the name of the game. The point I was making was that in the grand scheme of things, football is not as important as we sometimes make it, which is the reason why I don’t argue things to death.
If football so preoccupies someones thinking so that he does not pay attention to the more serious things in life then it becomes a dangerous thing. Now I’m not saying you guys are guilty of this, I’m simply trying to point out to Grognard were football lies in my list of priorities and why sometimes I take a break from ranting on this site from time to time.
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@Karl: And I greatly appreciate the fact that you understand Karl. It means a lot to know there are a few individuals out there who are not part of the mob. You have captured my motivation very accurately but you have left out one aspect to what makes me tick. As much as I expect the club to win and win with style, it requires quality players to do that. There is nothing that has bothered me about our club more in the past twenty seasons than what Fergie and or the glazer’s have not done with the 80 million they received for Ronaldo. So as much as they have not used it for players, what upsets me more than the way we play is being lied to by the Boss and the club. It just rubs me the wrong way because unlike many, I am not a sucker to be trifled with.
I was not born yesterday and I have spent too many hours in a few too many board rooms to buy into the excuses that Fergie was shoving down our throats. That more than anything is what has really gotten me to go all negative on United and Fergie. I want him to retire and I want the Glazer’s to sell the team and fuck off because as far as I am concerned, they are all traitors to the the cause. I cannot tell you how disappointed and disenchanted I have become with SAF. A man I loved and believed in and who had brought so many years of value, winning and entertainment to us all, but who for some inexplicable reason, has turned his back on all the supporters by backing the current owners policy and who has adopted a cowardly defensive and uninspiring style of play because he feels his legacy is missing more European Cups. It’s sad he has become like those and it’s even sadder so many of our die hard fans have yet to see through him and through the team’s corporate coldness. I may be wrong regarding him, but he hasn’t exactly been up front and clear with us for a number of years. He just says what he wants and speaks in riddles and we have to accept his stories even if they are BS. This Ronaldo business will always leave me cold and numb.
Oh and maybe I wouldn’t dislike Anderson so much had Ferguson handled him properly and played him in his natural position and allowed him to be the player he was rather than molding him into something he wasn’t.
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@Grognard: I’m sorry, but if you think managers speak the truth (and if that’s your main beef) then you are being naive for a person of your supposed knowledge. Newsflash: Of course everyone lies. Wenger lies, Mourinho lies, Abramovich lies, Daniel Levy lies, Ferguson has almost always lied during his tenure (and if you haven’t seen that earlier, then I can’t help you).
I don’t have a problem with you being pissed off at the club. But your reasons seem a bit naive to me. Because Ferguson turned his back on supporters a long time ago, if you really think about it. The moment he sided with Glazers should have been the breaking point for you in the first place.
It makes sense if you are angry maybe because of his transfer strategy/tactics etc. But if the reasons were the Glazers and his turning his back on supporters etc, then I should say it’s a pretty late reaction by about 4 yrs. at least and strikes me as a little strange.
My support for Ferguson is despite the knowledge of his disregard for what fans think and despite the Glazers’ apathy towards the club as an institution.
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@Karl: I have never ever followed any team in pro sports that wins ugly. It has always been teams that win with style. That’s just who I am. I hate lunch bucket brigades with blue collar players that work their ass off and have not one ounce of talent among them. I love beauty and finesse in football. United unlike any other team I’ve seen since the late 80′s embodied all the elements required to not just win, but win with style. And before people start throwing the names of Arsenal at me, I said embodied all the qualities. Arsenal never had CLASS and Chelsea never will. Liverpool have lacked class, talent, style , grit and good taste, so consider them useless.
United had tough players but those players could also make a run or take a shot and score great goals. Now we have a brigade of very soft players who lack that extra element I am looking for. I actually felt this the season we one the Champions League and league in 2007/08. We won despite not having a great eal of steel and grit and what I considered a true leader.
Before Fergie showed up United were still my favorite club in England but they weren’t even close to Bayern Munich. I still love Bayern a lot but Fergie’s clubs just began to take my breath away and the arrival of Cantona completely seduced and enchanted me like no other time in my football watching life. I just loved watching him, Giggsy, Beckham delivering those free kicks and crosses and it just got better and better.
Even when we never won the league we were still by far the most attractive team in the league to watch and we had steel in players like Keane, Ince, Bruce etc. Players who took no prisoners and showed no mercy. Now we are stuck with the Evra’s, Anderson’s, and Parks of the world. Players with nor grit or steel and players who I feel are just soft. I only truly regard Vidic and Rooney as our only hard edged players. And I am still looking for a leader to run this club on the pitch. Who cares about 1974 or the early 80′s. I am talking about the Ferguson era. An era of excellence and expectations. And all of a sudden, our expectations are not being met. Well, I blame Fergie and the club for spoiling me rotten.
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@Grognard: I understand exactly what you mean. I share the same.
When I said I “I understand what you’re all about”, I did not mean it in a sense like I know exactly what and who you are, and what makes you tick. You’re too dynamic for that. I perhaps used he wrong phrase. But, I think you know what I meant. Just thought I’d highlight that.
No matter what excuses people make, I hate it when somone lie to me. Regardless of who s/he is. It shows a lack of respect IMO.
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@Karl: Exactly. I especially hate it when politicians lie and other officals we put our trust in. I’ve often felt that sports people take themselves and their businesses to seriously and in football you have all this cloak and dagger stuff going on. Secret deals and secrecy in general and in all that, thew club’s forget who really pays their wages. Fergie shows far too much respect to the lame ass owners of the club and not enough to the millions and millions of supporters. But lying to us for me is the final straw. One would have to be deaf, dumb and stupid to not recognize Fergie’s lies of late. All designed to protect the owners of the team and it makes me sick.
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@ Red Ranter!
Gr8 blog
I am a bog fan of Scott the Red at RoM but i have to accept one thing. He is over optimistic about United all the time. Its more than belief! Sometimes we have to accept the reality like you’ve done over here.
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