Jul 21
Anyone With Knowledge of Spanish, Kindly Translate
Every one has been talking about Crissy R’s interview to ESPN. Yes, I know, it’s impossible to have him out of the news beyond five minutes. One would expect him to echo Fergie’s views following the meeting with him in Lisbon — that he’s a Manchester United player for this coming season.
But, suddenly, he seems to have become a person of God — ‘Only God knows my future’ was apparently the loose translation of what he said, when asked about his future. [Is he playing the God card in his bid to win the Player of the Year, following in the footsteps of Jesus-boy, Kaka, who pipped him last time round?]
Perhaps, he’s talking about his long term future? Even so, it would not be unreasonable if one thought St. Cristopher Ronaldo might satisfy us with the divine words: ‘I am a Manchester United player for this season’, thus legitimising the claim of a mere mortal like Alex Ferguson. But the saint thinks it is not the time, yet.
We wait in hope…
Meanwhile, anyone with knowledge of Spanish — the language the saint chose to give his sermon to the ESPN hack — kindly translate and confirm that the translated quotes in the media aren’t taken out of context. One could never entirely decipher the cryptic words of the divine, can one?
Here’s the video:
Meanwhile, an apostle of the saint, Ramon Calderon, has not given up hope in the first coming of his messiah. We applaud his faith.
Also, saint Cristopher has showered his grace, so to speak, on four women, according to the Daily Mirror.
Related items from Red Rants:- Who Should Be United’s Captain Next Season?
- Newcastle Preview and Ronaldo’s Contract
- How to Buy a Player From Spurs: A Primer
- Commenting Policy
- Ronaldo to Madrid — Again
Tags: Daily Roundup
July 21st, 2008 at 10:27
I’ve said my peace regarding the asshole. This clip only proves that I am right. We need to sell him NOW.
July 21st, 2008 at 10:28
CR7 should just fuck off!
July 21st, 2008 at 10:43
I do Spanish at college and understand enough to know that they have been translated correctly in the papers. The way he talks, i dont think he cares too much where he plays. Its just the usual “Only god knows” rubbish. The bit that made me laugh was that he said “What do you want me to tell you? That im staying or going?”…yes cristiano…that would be the gist of this!
July 21st, 2008 at 10:46
He is an obnoxious self obesesed little boy I am afraid. Fergie with his granite will would not sell him for all the whisky in Govan, which does seem to against the wished of most of the supporters, typical!
July 21st, 2008 at 10:52
My theory is everyone told him Kaka only pipped him to the Balloon D’Or last year cause of his religious views, so Cristiano is hedging his bets
July 21st, 2008 at 11:50
it is pretty m uch what was said in the papers. He is saying that he doesnt know where his future lies and that he would be motivated to play anywhere. He says that motivation is not a problem. When asked where he would be playing he said, “what do you want me to say? that i want to leave or i want to stay?”
July 21st, 2008 at 12:01
He has said “only god knows my future” a number of times over the last few years, usually coupled with his “Dreams don’t always come true” line.
And I wouldn’t expect any definite, “I’ll still be at Old Trafford” until its absolutely certain. Until Real bid and we see for certain that United arent just talking big theres going to be uncertainty in all parties. I have to say though its looking more and more to me that Real don’t have and never did have any intention in putting in a bid. They have a handful of players each season that they seem to make noises about seemingly to try and unsettle rival clubs (and maybe to force better deals on actual targets) and never follow through and it seems like Ronaldo may be one of these
July 21st, 2008 at 12:22
Someone needs to make a bid before anything will happen. Real want United to go to them because they think it’ll save them £20million or so. We are not willing to sell. Real have to come to us if they want him. For a team that seem to have hedged their entire future on signing Ronaldo, no bids tells it all. They can’t be that interested.
Make a bid or shut the hell up.
July 21st, 2008 at 13:05
I think the reason for giving the interview in Spanish only relates to the fact that the majority of ESPNs audience for “Soccer” are spanish speakers.
July 21st, 2008 at 13:13
@DMC:
I would actual assume it was done for ESPN Deportes, rather than the main ESPN channel. ESPN Deportes being a channel that airs sport for the Spanish speaking Americans as well as produce their own sports programs in the Spanish Language.
I do believe ESPN Deportes does carry more ’soccer’ related content than the parent channel does because as you say the Spanish speakers have a greater passion for it than the average English speaking american
July 21st, 2008 at 13:19
Doing a bit of reading up ESPN Deporte do apparently have a small slot on Sports Centre on the main channel. The YouTube clip has SC in the corner so looks like it came from ESPN Deporte for sure and was aired as part of their slot on Sports Centre on the main channel
July 21st, 2008 at 15:43
It was not aired on Sportscenter. The ESPN Deportes slot is about a minute long. I watch Sportscenter maybe 3 or 4 times a day, so if it was on, I would’ve seen it.
July 21st, 2008 at 15:47
and you know what grognard man utd should not sell him, ronaldo or berbertov I would take ronaldo any day of the week over that overrated moody donkey, ronaldo leaves we are weakened berbertov arrives united will be even more weakened.
tell me this grognard how do spurs fans feel when they hear their star player could be sold, don’t be ironic he has done wonders for this side more then cantona who also stabbed leeds in the back. Man utd have benefited greatly over players lack of loyalty it’s just how football of today works get over it. Like I said before he never supported united has a kid so stop crying over the guy.
July 21st, 2008 at 16:19
@steve: How is anything that Grognard said ironic? That would inidcate that the intended meaning of his statement was the opposite of its literal meaning. Since he has been saying for a while now that he wants Ronaldo gone, I’m going to assume that when he says, “I’ve said my peace regarding the asshole. This clip only proves that I am right. We need to sell him NOW.: he means it literally!!
Moreover, if you’ve been reading here long enough you should know that Berba is not Grognard’s first choice signing. He would much prefer Huntelaar, but would accept Berba is a decent second choice. Though he certainly can speak for himself and will, I’m sure, correct me if I’m wrong about this.
Seriously, adding Berbatov, a proven PL striker is going to weaken our side??
July 21st, 2008 at 16:42
“Only God knows my future” And to many of us God goes by another name as well, Sir Alex Ferguson.
July 21st, 2008 at 16:47
@Eric the Red:
Actually there is a bit of a hypocrisy to his stance on Ronaldo. He slags him off for in his eyes not showing loyalty BUT pretty much demands United go after Huntelaar, Podolski and the likes when their clubs say they arent for sale and when they are under contract and would be showing ‘disloyalty’ if they moved
So it is a bit of a have your cake and eat it attitude
July 21st, 2008 at 16:48
Just saw Fergie’s latest comments, looks to have softened a bit. Link
I still say sell the boy, while his price is at it’s highest, and get the squad focused on next year. Oh and force rooney to a. calm down and b. lose some weight. Now there are two issues that deserve far more attention than what’s his name…
July 21st, 2008 at 16:48
@MUFC Fan in America:
Do you happen to know then if ESPN Deportes have their own version of Sports Centre? Although I supposed the SC could mean anything
July 21st, 2008 at 16:57
@Beachryan:
Sell him to who, Real who don’t seem to want to put a bid in and also after the initial “we will pay anything” have since moved to a £40mill price tag. When prices that Chelsea are supposedly willing to pay for Kaka range from 79mill to 119mill is 40mill really a good deal. Hey Real even seem to want over £40mill for Robinho so £40 mill will not even buy a replacement half as good
July 21st, 2008 at 17:07
@Wakey: Whether or not anything Grognard has said is hypocritical, is open to debate. Though I see nothing ‘obviously’ hypocritical about wanting a player gone due to his supposed lack of loyalty and wanting the club to buy players (hopefully in a moral way). Hypocritical would be slagging off Ronaldo for his lack of loyalty and not slagging off the club if they did the same or perhaps another team’s player for showing the same sort of disloyalty. Anyhow, I digress. My real point, nitpicky though it may be, was simply that nothing Grognard said even remotely resembles ‘irony.’ He has for a while now said that he wanted Ronaldo gone and he said so again.
July 21st, 2008 at 17:08
@Wakey: Yep, they have a Spanish Language version of it. What they show on it I have no idea.
July 21st, 2008 at 17:13
@ Beachryan, completly agree with your views on Rooney, he must start to grow up, he is turning into a bit of a liability these days, probably due to his loss of form. We don’t want to take that agression out of his game but he needs to channel it better.
He needs to calm down, and shed a few ponds, probably why he has started smoking!!
July 21st, 2008 at 17:15
If Chelsea do buy Kaka for £117 million it would be fantastic for United. This is because we can then say to Real Madrid, Ronaldo is the best player in the world and if Kaka is worth £117 million Ronaldo must be worth more. Therefore bumping up the transfer fee by tens of millions
July 21st, 2008 at 17:24
@OllieY:
Except they won’t. If they serious about buying him you have to feel that they would have lodged a high bid immediately. The longer they wait other transfers and bids are increasing Ronaldos value and they must know this. I’m at a point now that they never had any intention of buying him unless they really felt they could get him at a bargin. If they lodge a bid at all and certainly anywhere north of 50mill now I will be shocked.
July 21st, 2008 at 17:28
Wakey
Thank you at least you have the common sense to see through some of these united fans. Like I said the only couple of grudges I have against ronaldo is him taking the shine of our success and agreeing with bladder’s insane comments that’s what has annoyed me with ronaldo. has for hunteleer why do we want to go backwards get over van nistlerooy, Wakey I totaly agree with you. united fans what about everton who made rooney where was Wayne’s loyalty to everton, what about leeds who found cantona is there loyalty there, what about ronaldo who sporting trained and made him why isnt ronaldo showing any loyalty to lisbon, what about hargreaves who was brought up at munich where is the loyalty there from owen. you know where it is no where there is no loyalty in football plain and simple clubs are not loyal is well so it goes hand in hand, even football fans who want managers out look at man utd fans disgraceful treatment of sir alex who now look like fools.
and I wish some man utd fans were not so bitter towards ronaldo when they say where is the loyalty perhaps if man utd give ronaldo the new contact we may not have had this garbage all summer. and that bladder spelling is how I will call him because thats what he should be called. I have seen united fans booing giggs who has been the perfect example of the word loyal and wanting scholes and giggs out because they are past it, where is the loyalty from united fans to back those great players who have been brilliant and have showing loyalty.
July 21st, 2008 at 17:34
@OllieY: £117m?! Where did you get that figure?
@Wakey: I’m sure they want Ronaldo. No doubt about it. They need a star to satisfy their indulgences, and Calderon’s need for strengthening his position as Real president. (And don’t ask me for hard evidence over this
) They just thought that they can ride roughshod over us and get away with a bargain. Which hasn’t happened. You really think that if United wanted to sell him at 60-70m they wouldn’t have bitten our hands off?
They just thought they could effect a breakdown of some sort between club and player so that they could sign him up. To Ronaldo’s credit (and that’s all I can give him credit for) he hasn’t thrown a strop about.
But after the meeting with Ferguson, either he shouldn’t be talking to the press anymore, or he should really be saying that he is a Manchester United player for this season — is that too much to ask when it’s almost August? I think not. And hence my disappointment on the lad — disappointment is a soft word to describe my true feeling for him, but I’ve exhausted all adjectives on him, already.
July 21st, 2008 at 17:42
@steve: I agree with you about misplaced loyalties. But the point is the way one conducts his transfer to another club with dignity. I know the majority of Arsenal fans who wished Flamini all luck when he went to Milan, because they acknowledged his contribution and the fact that he conducted himself in a very dignified manner. And he was upfront and honest about getting the right offer if he was to stay in a club. Similarly with Gilberto who despite being stripped of his captaincy didn’t throw a strop around.
The point is not on loyalty — I know a lot of fans demand loyalty which is unfair in most cases — but in the way one conducts himself. And I didn’t like the way Ronaldo conducted himself. That’s all. I am disappointed in him, I wouldn’t boo him, but it really breaks my heart the way he’s conducted himself.
July 21st, 2008 at 17:42
@steve: If you have bothered to actually read any of my past posts over the many months you would know that I am an admirer of Berbatov’s skill but I am incredibly concerned and nervous over his self centered, moody personality. He was never my first choice and until Gomez fell from Grace he wasn’t even my second. In fact, I would prefer Huntelaar, Pavlyuchenko, Pogrebniak, Villa and even Podolski over him in that order. So stop trying to stir up shit with me because your argument has no validity.
Look around you mate. Players leave teams in the hundreds every year. It’s the nature of the game. Cantona leaving Leeds is because Fergie had a conversation one day by chance with Leeds manager at the time, as he was contacted by Leeds regarding selling one of our players. When Fergie turned him down, he out of the blue shot for the stars and asked if Cantona was available. He didn’t expect a positive response but instead received one. Now in God’s name HOW is that Cantona’s fault?
I have no problem with a player making a formal request to his team to move on. Yes they are under contract but they are going through proper channels and procedures in order to do so. Berbatov did this last season. He asked Levy for a transfer but also knew that it would take time so he committed his season to Spurs. Well it’s time for Levy to stop playing games and make a bloody decision. If he doesn’t want to sell him that is his prerogative and his right. And if Berbatov can’t handle it, too bad. Would I like to see him come to us, at this point yes but I still dream of Huntelaar who also has made his intentions very clear to Marco van Basten. No player in history has asked for a transfer that wasn’t under contract so that argument is null and void. It’s how you go about asking for your release and why you want your release that makes all the difference in the World. Also, Berbatov was never a straight replacement for Ronaldo. He was always going to be that striker signing we needed, so saying, and I quote “I would take ronaldo any day of the week over that overrated moody donkey, ronaldo leaves we are weakened berbertov arrives united will be even more weakened.” Only leaves me to believe two things. First you are looking at Berbatov as a replacement for Ronaldo, which is not to true. And second, you don’t proof read what you write because what you wrote makes hardly any sense grammatically.
And as far as how Spurs fans feel about the Berbatov situation, I honestly couldn’t care less. They are not the team I support but I would imagine they are pretty pissed off. They are also full of encouragement and hope as they know the 57 million they get for both Berbatov and Keane will go directly into purchasing top players. They have every reason to believe that under Ramos the future is very bright for them and whether they were sweet for Berbatov or not, they had a year of warning and intent that dictated that he was gone after last season. What kind of warning did we have after we won the CL final? Did Ronaldo even bother to knock on Fergie’s door and make a formal request to be transferred? Did United play the game with evil intent and use Real Madrid tactics to tapp up Berbatov? The answer to all these questions is an emphatic NO. Every team in the history of the professional game has benefited from players leaving one team and going to another except for those like Scholes and Giggs that are home grown and lucky enough to be on a great team and even luckier to be able to reach all their lofty ambitions with that same club. Your argument is incredibly weak because player transfers and signings is and has been the nature of the business from day one. Very few players just wait for their contracts to expire and then move on. It’s not practical and it’s not good business to do so. But here;’s the thing. Transfers have to be agreed upon by both parties, the team selling the player, and the player agreeing to go. In Ronaldo’s case he hasn’t even put forth a formal request and neither has Real put forth a formal bid. So then why should Fergie sell him if none of this has happened? For people like you who want him around I offer you this, the only reason I have and it’s a valid one. Because Ronaldo will poison the team with his presence and especially the other Portuguese speaking players who are on the team. Because his attitude and poor conduct in this saga has been incredibly unprofessional and childish and I’m supposed to believe that he will not carry this attitude into the training room and on to the pitch. I just don’t have a lot of faith in his maturity and professionalism and I for one don’t want to risk the club over the positives he may bring to us on the pitch. Do we want to sell our souls for that pot of gold he is dangling in front of us?
And finally, don’t tell me ever how I should act or what I should do or feel. I’ll damn well cry and sulk over Ronaldo’s poor treatment of the club and fans as much as I like and it’s not your place or business to tell me otherwise. Truthfully, if my ideals or beliefs piss you off so much, why don’t you just skip my posts and move on. Truthfully, I never read any of your posts unless my name is attached to it. Then I feel obligated to. Otherwise, very little of what you have to say interests me or stimulates me. I’m sure you feel the same about what I have to say so why do you continue to read and respond to my posts? It’s almost like you are picking a fight or acting like a bully. Trust me, in my life I’ve dealt with far fiercer blokes who tried to tell me how to act think and react. Worrying about what you think over how I should think or act is of no consequence to me and I personally don’t give a rats ass. This is a hint to you for the future. Show me you are a bright guy and get the hint.
July 21st, 2008 at 17:46
I still cannot understand some fans still giving Ronaldo the benefit of the doubt. He has totally disrespected the club when we should be basking in the glory of the double.
Only God knows th futre bollox, I am sorry but if you want to stay you say so. I am fed up with his arrogance, and yes we should to a degree cut our noses off. We do not want a player playing for us who does not have the pride and passion to wear the shirt, it was the 50th anniversary of Munich this year, players died playing for our great club, I am not going to be low and put that on Ronaldo, but we are above this little twat and he should know it.
July 21st, 2008 at 17:49
@OllieY: That is a very valid point and a tactic they should definitely use. His surgery does bring that down a bit though because one never really knows how well he recovers from it. The success of the surgery should allow him to have a 100% recovery though.
July 21st, 2008 at 17:51
@steve: Steve and Wakey seeing eye to eye. Who didn’t see that coming?
July 21st, 2008 at 18:20
@Red Ranter:
The Gazzetta dello Sport
July 21st, 2008 at 18:25
@Stephen: stephen
ronaldo if anything, has been pretty consistent so far with his comments! (that he doesnt know where he will be). obviously he will hope for his dream transfer to real till 31st aug which is the last date to conduct business this summer. you cannot fault him for this as here its the club that is not agreeing to his “desire” for transfer. He has all the rights to be hopeful at least isint it ??? In any case there are so many instances when we see or hear players or clubs firmly proclaiming loyalty to each other only to see a tranfer soon after. Case of a certain DB7 comes to my mind as an example!!! Utd had firmly denied of a transfer for Becks but he was sold just few days after that denial!!! Its the same thing here. Ronaldo is not going to take club’s position as a final one till 31st (same as Berba is not going to take Spur’s position on his transfer as final one till 31st). If Ronaldo is made to stay and he doesnt perform because of that then really it is a problem.
July 21st, 2008 at 18:42
@steve: Grognard is one of the best contributers to this site and though some of his posts can cause disagreements most are fantastic and an enjoyment to read. And even if you don’t agree with what he says there is no need to be so rude and disrespectful because I for one can’t see any post which would cause such a response from you
July 21st, 2008 at 18:48
@steve: Ok mate. I’ve had it with your whining. He doesn’t agree with you does not mean you can trash him. You got a problem, get it out through email or see yourself banned.
And you call Cantona overrated? Not even the most blinkered of scousers would say that.
Anyway, I wouldn’t hold that against you, but it probably gives us an insight in to your line of thinking.
So explain your position through email or see yourself banned.
Note: Replying here on comments will be deleted.
July 21st, 2008 at 18:56
@OllieY: That is fucking insane by any stretch of the imagination.
I can’t understand why Roman can’t invest his billions in some third world country that can benefit from his largesse. To be fair, though, Kenyon has denied interest in Kaka — but then Kenyon can say many things.
July 21st, 2008 at 19:00
@Red Ranter: Yeah
July 21st, 2008 at 19:31
@OllieY: Thanks a lot for the support. Whether anyone agrees or disagrees with my comments, that’s OK. It’s how they go about it that matters. I certainly don’t expect all my ideas or theories to be agreed on and I don’t demand or expect people to follow my way of thinking. Some people don’t get that and they feel they have to impose or bully their beliefs on you. If they disagree with you, they not only disagree, they have to insult you and put down you life and existence in the process. I greatly appreciative support and positive feedback from posters like yourself who can see the insanity in that kind of behavior and who believe in freedom to express one’s ideas and in fairness. Cheers!
July 21st, 2008 at 19:36
Ahhhh, I am so fed up with the whole sarga now!! I know hw has been consitent with his comments, but so have Fergie and David Gill. United will not sell you to Real!! So he really should get the point and stop going on about the future and slavery!
The rights and wrongs are to be debated, but the club has said he is not for sale, so he should just accept that and get on with playing. I hope Fergie does not make him captain for any games next season, if he does I will probably vomit.
July 21st, 2008 at 19:43
@OllieY: What’s really insane about Abramovich’s behavior and promises is he has that kind of money and it’s a drop in a bucket for him as well. Why is Septic Bladder and Panty waste Platini not coming down on them for completely unrealistic and highly irresponsible actions and motives? FIFA cannot allow an owner to completely destroy the transfer structure and frail economic stability of the world game. Therefore I have a radical plan. A strict transfer fee cap. Don’t cripple clubs from transferring or buying players but a limit needs to be placed on individual players based on a rating system. Perhaps if FIFA can go and rate clubs as well as National sides, they should also have a rating on players, even thought hat opens up a Pandora’s box regarding subjectivity and perspective. The world probably has no more than 25 absolutely world class players. Those players need to have a cap put on them by a governing body to ensure that somebody like Abramovich or Real Madrid do not destroy the economic evaluations of players by paying 10, 20 30 time what a player is worth. We are in a democracy and free enterprise system, but there still needs to be checks and balances to keep the playing field fair and reasonable. Certainly professional sports in America protects their leagues from this kind of nonsense. Even baseball which has no salary cap has something called a luxury tax to prevent or restrain teams like the Yankees from continually going over that cap without financial penalty. Abramovich is leading us to madness and Blatter will probably let him. Milan would also be foolish to not take the money and laugh all the way to the bank.
July 21st, 2008 at 19:56
@Grognard: Your idea won’t fly because of the free-market climate of footy. The EU won’t allow such a thing. And unlike American sport, it’s not a single league system. It’s a conglomerate of leagues and every nation of the world is part of the transfer market. It’s just too complex to change anything — not to mention the number of loopholes that are there. Just implausible, and mind bogglingly difficult to implement considering the opposition it will face, no doubt.
July 21st, 2008 at 20:00
We are in a democracy and free enterprise system, but there still needs to be checks and balances to keep the playing field fair and reasonable.
The main point of a pure free market is there can be no ‘buts’. Either you are unconditionally free or not. The American league is socialist in nature. NFL has monopoly over football, although you have some of those mini-offseason leagues that don’t hold a candle. In world soccer each league competes with the other over tv deals and whatnot. It’s just apples and oranges to be making that sort of a comparison with American leagues.
July 21st, 2008 at 20:09
@Red Ranter: Oh I’m not disagreeing with you there. FIFA would first of all have to propose it which as we all know, under their current leadership that’s an impossibility. Secondly they would have to table the proposal to the European Court in the Hague for approval. Although highly unlikely, similar things have been fought for by American leagues with the US Supreme Court and have been won. Courts in many scenarios do see the sanity in things and they do also see that professional sports in it’s basic form needs to be socialist in nature in order to be fair and to survive. Money has nothing to do with Bosman as the player’s freedom is not the issue, it’s creating guidelines and limits to what teams can do to purchase players. It’s not implausible but I agree that it is very unlikely in our present economic and social climate. Things need to get far worse before they get better. It’s always the way. If it happens in needs to happen only in Europe and since their is a continental mindset already in place, it’s not as big as looking at it from the perspective of the whole world. European leagues are they only ones that stand to be affected because frankly, that’s where the money is. I did say it was a radical plan and honestly, it will will take people with vision, courage and will to conceive something that will end this madness and bring some normalcy and proper and fair financial conduct back to the game.
July 21st, 2008 at 20:17
@Grognard: True, but the only way I see anything happening is for the system to undergo some sort of a major breakdown where then, there will be an effort to completely overhaul the system radically. But that wouldn’t happen. The system is definitely broken, but the question is not many agree with each other on what the problem is exactly before finding the solution. You may say it’s transfer prices, I may say it’s the agents, someone else might say it’s the foreign ownership, others might say it’s the amount of debt. Which is why it’s very complicated.
When people don’t agree on what the source of a problem is, in the first place, then how can one find the solution. As Douglas Adams in Hitchhiker’s Guide would say: If you want the answer to the ultimate question on life universe and everything, you must know the question in the first place.
July 21st, 2008 at 20:20
@Grognard: Transfer Caps on a rating system of players simply
wouldn’t work, as players can only be rated on matter of opinion, unlike American
Football (just an example) where players are rated on stats etc. One relatively easy rule to have in place is a maximum amount a club can spend on one player (Say, £50m). Obviously this would suit clubs who are chasing the best players, like Madrid are with Ronaldo, however I believe that this would be in the short term and eventually, transfer fees would decrease in accordance with the £50m maximum.
I also wouldn’t mind seeing a salary cap, to stop wages getting dafter than they already
are, and I think that, to improve the way reserve football is played, we should follow Spain’s suit and enter the reserve teams in the lower tiers of the English football leagues. It would make reserve football more competetive, as I feel that the reserve leagues are quite weak at the moment, and could possibly speed up the development of players, if they are playing against more senior, experienced players and teams. They could experience the highs and lows of league football from a young age, which could also aid in their development as they would mature quicker when it comes to pressure situations. Of course, I don’t know the exact way that it works,
as I only really watch La Liga, however I really do think that the FA should look into it, and I seem to remember Benitez suggesting the idea a while back.
July 21st, 2008 at 20:25
@Red Ranter: I see your point but I also believe it is easier than you think. The reason being is that the game is still governed by a central body. Is Blatter’s 6-5 rule any less radical when you think of it? He has to pass that in the very same way and go through all the obstacles. He probably will fail but he does have a lot of support because many feel the game is broken. Even though teams from one league deal with another league, there are still laws they have to abide by that FIFA has created. Why not limit the spending if a few poisoned and rotten apples are causing the whole orchard to rot? FIFA can put it to a vote and believe me, there are a lot more poor teams than there are rich teams. Once the vote is passed, then you deal with the courts accordingly but with a powerful argument that is substantiated by a unanimous vote from it’s member nations and clubs. All leagues and most clubs see this money thing getting out of hand. All this reform would do is halt the lofty and ridiculous ambitions of a half dozen or so teams that seem to run roughshod over everyone else. Unfortunately United is one of those teams. I’d say off the top of my head that Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich, AC Milan, Inter, Juventus, Liverpool and of course Chelsea are the real culprits. And to smaller degrees there are teams in smaller leagues that do the same but to a degree equivalent to the financial strength of their league. We cannot allow these clubs and three or four leagues in the entire world to dictate how the game should be operated from a financial perspective.
Sports must be socialist in nature but not amateur is substance. Free enterprise must rule but with restrictions paced in order to make leagues and teams play on a more but not completely even playing field. In that sense the American model I present is perfect and reachable if people with vision and desire make it so. Unfortunately, those people do not reside in the sport yet so we will all be forced to wait for the day fairness and a moderate degree of economic parity exists in the sport we all love but are increasingly getting more and more disenchanted with.
July 21st, 2008 at 20:26
@Grognard:
I don’t think anyone minds you having a difference of opinion, its just the way you go OTT with your comments and the inconsistency you show in your treatment of players. For example what annoys me with you at times is the way you will go all out on Ronaldo for lack of loyalty and even demand he is booed despite him actually not doing anything to really show a lack of loyalty yet you are all for us going after players under contract and who would potentially see us as a better option than their current club. If you are happy with United signing players and thus making them show a lack of loyalty to their current club then surely you have to accept that players who we arent their dream choice may be interested in a move away and just live with it as long as the player does nothing to break his contract. If you really cant live with that then you must surely want United to not go after players who are under contract and just focus on free agents. The two stances though are mutually exclusive
July 21st, 2008 at 20:35
@Red Ranter: Actually RR, for economists and business oriented people it is really quite simple. You put all those factors into a hat and you deal with all of them be creating a legal binding document sanctioned by FIFA that limits the amount of power these individuals, leagues, or teams can wield in the game. If that can pass the Supreme Court in the USA which is predominantly filled with Right Wing Republicans who believe in free enterprise, then it can pass the European courts as well. After all, it is for the safety and future stability of the game and the leagues in those professionally run environments. No court will disagree with a plan the prevents a few greedy and financially wealthy teams to completely run roughshod over the game and the majority of teams participating. The plan needs to be well thought out and presented by a skillful and very talented lawyer who represents FIFA, and not an ass clown like Blatter. I know, wishful thinking. But let me shock many by saying I am optimistic and positive. The day will come when the game will have no choice but to act for the good of all. How long that will be i don’t know, but considering how badly things are escalating financially, it won’t be as long as we think.
July 21st, 2008 at 20:41
@Grognard:
You need to get your heads out of the clouds when it comes to what FIFA can do. FIFA has no power when it comes to employment laws and no matter what they do they cant force regulation on clubs when its illegal in some countries. Blatters 6+5 rule for example can never be passed as it contravenes EU laws, the closest they could get would be a 6+5 rules based on 6 players from countries in your playing international region (so for United it would be players from UEFA nations) and 5 from others. Even then it may be problematic as other countries could have a more open right to work. Unless every nation in the world is governed by the same transfer rules you are screwing alot of nations over. Salary caps and transfer caps would fall into the same trap.
July 21st, 2008 at 20:57
I don’t think anyone minds you having a difference of opinion, its just the way you go OTT with your comments and the inconsistency you show in your treatment of players.
Going over the top is also fine, but not a reason to call somebody an idiot, that becomes personal. And like what Steve just did a while back. You can reason with the person, telling him where he’s wrong, but when it comes to imposing your opinions on others or making it personal then it becomes wrong.
Argue with opinions, but don’t use that to call the person an idiot or whatever. Plenty of opinions annoy me, but to me it can never be a reason to attack the person for it. It’s an opinion, and however stupid it may sound, I am not going to make it personal. And I expect the same from others here.
And really, getting annoyed with people over the internet and going on a crusade to prove them wrong is usually an exercise in futility. You can try, but if it doesn’t work, you have to give it a rest. It really doesn’t make sense to me.
July 21st, 2008 at 21:01
@Wakey: Regarding FIFA, completely agree with you. They just have no power, and even if they try there is a whole legal minefield to cross. It’s not quite so simplistic as one would want to think.
July 21st, 2008 at 21:08
@Wakey: Wakey, there absolutely no inconsistency in what I am saying. Perhaps you choose to read more into something I am saying than actually exists. If you cannot see that Ronaldo has shown tremendous disrespect to his team and supporters as well as incredible disloyalty, then nothing I can write will change your mind mate. It’s a forlorn hope. And if I want United to go out and get other players, I am doing so with the knowledge and hope that United conduct their search and attempts with class and with fairness. Do I want Huntelaar or Arshavin, or Podolski or Lahm etc? Yes of course I do and I would love for United to go after these players. But do so using proper etiquette and rules. Make a proper bid and then play the game everybody plays until a team relents. Do not use the media or other parties to tapp up a player and do not conduct illegal activities in general. That is exactly how they have conducted themselves over Berbatov. But their is nothing hypocritical about asking United to contact an other club and to put in a bid for a player whether that club says he is for sale or not. Stating a player is not for sale is just a tactic many teams use to force prospective buyers to increase their bid. And no, a team does not have to abide by a player’s childish dreams if that player was mature enough to sign a contract that legally binds him to the club for a certain time and that also legally binds the club from paying him the amount agreed upon. It’s a two way street and knuckling under to player’s whimsy and change of mind is not part of the process. Ronaldo and his agent knew what they were getting in to when they signed the 5 year deal. Be professional and live up to your contract. And if life is so unbearable playing for the best team in the world, then at least have the class and common courtesy to walk in to the boss’ office and make a formal demand for a transfer. But that would cause him to lose money from his contract based on FIFA’s rules and regulations concerning breaches of contracts.
There is no case to be made for Ronaldo that holds any legal or ethical weight I’m afraid. And I’m sorry you cannot see my point as it is as clear as daylight. Perhaps I am in agreement with you about it being wrong to boo the player openly as it sends a very negative message that also could distract the rest of the team. But that is as far it goes for me retracting anything I have said in the past.
I passionately and fully believe what I am saying and I feel like I have the ammunition to back it up. If you still feel me to be a hypocrite and annoying, that your cross to bare, not mine. It has never been my attention to annoy people as much as to stimulate lively and passionate debate. I try to (as hard as it is sometimes due to the many attacks on my personal being) to be fair and attentive to other people’s views and opinions and in numerous cases, I have changed my mind or agreed with their take on things, even if it was different than mine. Why? Because they made their case with a solid mindset and provided me proof that made me reconsider my opinion and position or at least include their’s along with mine as both being valid ways. If that’s annoying, I’m sorry. Yes I am opinionated, passionate in my beliefs and I believe I am fairly well informed. If that makes me elitist I wear that badge with pride. In a debate, the person debating me needs to attack my stance and not my person. And at the end of the day, if they succeed in winning the debate, I am not to proud or stubborn to concede defeat or a tie. But I will not be told to tow the line because somebody tells me I should or because they find me abrasive to their senses. I don’t intimidate easily and I don’t tolerate autocrats who force their way of thinking onto me like some football loving despots on this site. I hope you have a better understanding of who I am and where I stand on things. If not, it’s not because I wasn’t clear or articulate enough.
July 21st, 2008 at 21:24
@Wakey: I am not an idiot Wakey. I know exactly what kind of power FIFA has and doesn’t have. What they do have is an outstanding and powerful legal team who can present a proposal to the EU that has potential to pass if it’s properly worded and thought out. One does not quit or give up just because the task is daunting. That’s what brilliant minds are for. Courts are there to listen to reason, not dismiss things for the sake of dismissing. FIFA isn’t a lone shark trying to plea with a judge in a criminal court. They are a billion dollar global entity with far reaching power and above all, incredible influence in high places. Do not ever dismiss their power and that influence. We are talking about universal revisionism that already has majority backing in FIFA members It’s just the E14 teams that are scared to death. All countries and most leagues are in line with radical, financial and socialistic changes being made to the game because at the end of the day, the bottom line for most of these teams besides being competitive, is bloody survival.
And for your information I took 3 years of pre law in university before I decided I didn’t have the stomach for it and I chose teaching instead. So here my elitist personality is coming out again but do not lecture me on law and what is possible. What I propose is definitely possible but I do agree with Red Ranter in saying that there is a legal minefield that needs to be crossed. They just need proper and highly qualified minesweepers to do their bidding and a desire to make these changes. Easier said than done, but not impossible. Things will become more and more untenable for leagues and teams in the next few years. There will come a time when there will be a breaking point and anarchy will force FIFA to finally act and get off their collective asses and approach the EU and other world governing bodies over this growing cancer.
July 21st, 2008 at 22:20
@Grognard:
What has Ronaldo done to show disloyalty? Show me evidence. You can’t as he hasn’t done anything more than most players have done and expressed a interest in a potential move, something for example your #1 choice of a new striker Huntelaar has done.
This is my issue with your stance you have issues with him not honouring his contract which at this moment isnt the case and you also have issues with him not handing a transfer request in which I see no reason he needs to. You don’t have to be unhappy in your workplace to find another opportunity more appealing maybe its a dream job, better location, better pay or better benefits. If you can get that job you would jump at it but if you dont get the chance your still happy to stay. You certainly wont walk into your boss and say “I’m off” without it being a reality unless you are really unhappy where you are and are just looking for an excuse to leave.
No matter how ethically United act in getting these players who are under contract we are facilitating players being disloyal and breaking contracts. So you either have to have a problem with everything involved in allowing players to not see out their contract or you need to be fine with players having desires to move as long as they dont do anything to actually break or attempt to break the contract.
As for the loss of money for handing in his transfer request, the only thing he would potentially lose are the loyalty bonuses in his contract IF United accepted it, money he would recoup in the signing on fee he would receive.
July 21st, 2008 at 22:55
@Wakey:
You don’t have to be unhappy in your workplace to find another opportunity more appealing maybe its a dream job, better location, better pay or better benefits. If you can get that job you would jump at it but if you dont get the chance your still happy to stay. You certainly wont walk into your boss and say “I’m off” without it being a reality unless you are really unhappy where you are and are just looking for an excuse to leave.
Bad analogy. Because you can quit and your new company does not have to pay your old company any compensation. Also you are free to apply for the new job/attend interviews without the knowledge of your current employers. And you don’t usually engineer a move to another company by trying to get fired. You resign. So your analogy with regular jobs don’t fly. You just cannot compare the two.
Even if Real Madrid is interested, and Ronaldo is also, he can’t approach them without permission from his current employers.