Nov 08
Arsenal v Man Utd: Preview
It’s early kick off time at the Emirates, and United’s meeting with the Gunners couldn’t have come at a better time. Arsenal have been in underwhelming form — yes, I know, form matters little during a game of this magnitude — while United have been kicking up a few gears in the league whilst also applying the brakes at times. The fact is, though, we still are scoring a lot of goals, whilst Arsenal have lost their first choice strike pair to injury and suspension.
Before previewing today’s game, let me inform you that I was interviewed by Arsenal Insider ahead of today’s game. Here’s an excerpt:
PGL: Wenger has launched an attack on the standard of tackling in the Prem. This fixture used to be full of blood and thunder but it has become a more free-flowing fixture since the departures of Keane and Viera. You see Ronadlo kicked up and down the pitch every weekend, do you think Arsene has a point?
RR: Wenger has a point to some extent. But the league has always been physical. I think all managers sing a certain tune based on the way their players get treated on the pitch. Ferguson rants about Ronaldo not getting protection, while Wenger seems to think the whole league is on a conspiracy to injure his team. He may have a point but, at the end of the day, creative players will get kicked; the better teams will be hustled by the mediocre.
It’s how one learns to deal with it that would separate the Champion from the chasing pack. That’s something Fergie has learned but, fortunately or unfortunately, your manager hasn’t — and it appears increasingly so.
You can read the rest here, as I talk about Fergie, Wenger, United’s last season and today’s game.
Right, back to United, and there is quite some material for you to read through if you are looking to while away the time. David Lacey, on the Guardian, has a piece on the increasing significance of Berbatov to our season. For a United fan, and a regular commenter on RR, most of the points relating to the Bulgarian’s importance to United’s attack have already been discussed to death. But it’s still an article worth a read.
Another development taking place in Manchester lately, which has inspired fan boy behaviour, is the arrival of Maradona at Carrington to meet with Tevez. The likes of Rio Ferdinand (who turned 30) and Rooney were only too eager to snap a picture or two with him.
In the pre-match conference, Ferguson warned the fans against making denigrating Wenger chants, and that such chants should be stamped out of the game:
“I think some of the chants that are being directed towards Arsène Wenger are ridiculous. The police should be doing more. They should be stepping in. But Manchester United and its supporters should also know very well the chants that have been levelled at us over the years – ie songs about Munich [air disaster] – and understand the sensitivity that is felt by members of this club. I don’t agree with it at all. There’s enough to think about and admire in the game without resorting to denigrating people.”
Well they may be denigrating, but then it’s Arsene Wenger, and who wouldn’t want to have fun at the expense of Le Professor!
Brown is injured, and Fletcher remains a doubt. So, a good line up today would be a 4-4-2 with Neville’s experience preferred over the raw Rafael. Brown, to me, would be the ideal person to play this game, but he’s out injured. If Fletcher does not make it, then Anderson will take his place alongside Carrick. I’d also like to see Nani start, although one can’t help but wonder if the likes of Park or Giggs might sneak in. Park, especially, considering he’ll be able to do a lot of running and try to pressure their full backs. Rooney and Berbatov would play up front.
Predictions: 2-1 to United.
Come on you reds!!!
Related items from Red Rants:
- Porto it is then…
- Man Utd v Stoke: Preview
- GOAL VIDEOS: Manchester United v Arsenal
- Man Utd v Everton: Preview
- Man Utd v Spurs match thread
Tags: Game Preview
November 8th, 2008 at 11:27
IT`S MASSACRE DAY!!!
Im looking forward to it. Hopefully Ronaldo and Rooney can get their 100th today and Berba score against his “old”, and present, rival club. Rio might also get in the goals today as our corner have been brilliant he last week. Against Cletic it was only bad fortune that we didnt score from one, some was cleared off the line, some shot over and one blocked from Ronny. We scored 2 against Hull(Vidic and Ronny) and we all know how good Arsenal are defending set-pieces. 
Too bad Gallas aint playing though. 
They got Silly, Bendtner and Toure protecting their goals from corners, we got Rio, Vidic, Ronaldo, Berba and Carrick attacking them on our corners. Contest? Not even a close one. I think we will win by 2 or 3 goals. Possibly a clean sheet too! Vela and Bendtner vs Rio and Vida. HA-HA! Just as funny as scousers saying its their year! 
Team prediction:
VDS
Neville Rio Vidic Evra
Ronaldo Carrick Anderson Park
Rooney Berbatov
score prediction: 3-0 to united. Yeah really! Ronaldo, Rooney and birthday boy Rio to score. Hey, the three R`s are gonna score against Arse.
COME ON UNITED!!!
November 8th, 2008 at 11:29
I would like to quote a phrase that sums up the difference between Arsenal and Uniteds class. Here it goes:
” Just compare that to Arsenal’s back four. One of their starting line-up could be Mikael Silvestre, a player who was a million miles away from getting in United’s team. That’s how big the gap is between these two sides now and that’s why I think United will have no fear going to play Arsenal. “
Paul Merson
November 8th, 2008 at 11:32
I may be overly confident, but I really give a fuck! I had to run like a fucking scouser after watching the result after a United vs Pool game last night. Those Arsenal fans are not gonna forgive me for what I said. And that punch I gave their so called “leader”? Im gonna feel that on Monday. But fuck it, if we win its worth it! To see his face after bitching about how they went unbeaten in 2006 and 2007(seriously, WTF? Know your history dude!), and then getting humiliated when I and even the other Arse`s were telling him that he was wrong, that they only lost one game last season(again, WHAT THE FUCK!??), and that experience is unecassary!!!! SHIT! I just couldnt stand him. I had to hit him, but with his crew there I couldnt go for it like I should. One hit on his jaw and a threat and I was running like Torres does when he sees Rio(
)! Win today lads and no-one will even think about talking to me. 
The embarrasment is huge to them, and with the massacre coming up I dont think any of them are brave enough to come to school….
UNITED `TILL I DIE!
November 8th, 2008 at 12:07
Just a little less than 2 hours to kick off. Where is everyone?
November 8th, 2008 at 12:16
@RedDevilEddy:
wow that’s quite extreme 
Anyway I can only see the first half due to work. I wouldnt be extremely confident of a drubbing(maybe because the last time I was we lost to the dippers-btw another player robbed is just ridiculous) I think fergie will play conservatively and try to beat them on the counter. When both Nani and Ronaldo play it leaves too much space on the wings. I would like to see 3 CMs with Roonatov and Ronnie in front. This is no walkover and if any of our players start to believe that then we’re in trouble. We should win but we know how teams elevate their games against us. Vela looks a good player and Rio seems to have lost half a yard of pace so Arsenal could nick an early goal and then try to shut us out
November 8th, 2008 at 12:22
my prefered team today would be
foster
)
neville
rio
vida
evra
ronaldo
cara(he doesnt have a nickname
andy
nani
rooney
berbatov
i just realised, wouldn’t a dream striker partnership be ronaldo and berbatov upfront?
November 8th, 2008 at 12:31
in the pub already? or watching Soccer AM! 4-0 COME ON UNITED!!
November 8th, 2008 at 12:32
@dan(u-ol): How about Mike? Ricky? Passick=sick passes.
November 8th, 2008 at 12:47
@Traverse: soccer am me hehe.
@RedDevilEddy: passick is good hehe but a bit long.
November 8th, 2008 at 12:48
I just read from RoM that we have signed fabian delph from the leeds scum
is he good?
i just couldnt see arsenal winning today, i mean even though they are wounded scums right now, they will not have enough fire power to kill us, united will piss at them, just like putting alcohol to a fresh wound.
united 2-nil.
November 8th, 2008 at 12:48
team news?
November 8th, 2008 at 12:50
I would not underestimate Arsenal. They are under a lot of pressure to deliver a performance and while they are beneath a physical scrap they will come closer to matching us technically than other teams. Also Silvestre and Gallas have a lot of experience and on their day they are very good defenders.
Having said that this year is our best chance to get a result at the Emirates. I cannot wait till kickoff
November 8th, 2008 at 12:50
@RedDevilEddy: i like your confidence red devil eddy.
this is wenger’s doomsday. 
November 8th, 2008 at 12:52
@john freakin’ o’shea: who lol
November 8th, 2008 at 12:53
@colver: First time Ive heard anyone call Silly a good defender. Good thing is he is partly injured, with a broken nose, so if he play he may not be brave enough to stcik his head in where it hurts. he-he.
I dont underestimate Arsenal, but I am realistic. And of cource hopeful. They are a wounded animal, but we are a lion in its best age. They are an injured antilope. We should kill them off, if not I will be hugely dissapointed.
November 8th, 2008 at 12:54
wow its says 5million, he must be good.
November 8th, 2008 at 12:54
The first time we played at the Emirates, we JUST lost.
Second Time – We JUST drew.
Third time lucky?
November 8th, 2008 at 12:56
The key to this game is Arsenal’s brittle self-confidence. The game can go only two ways -
1) They get an early goal and play their match of the season and win.
2) We get an early goal, totally break their confidence and go on to thrash them.
November 8th, 2008 at 12:59
@antsBoy: You damn right its gonna be third time lucky!
And something else.
First time we played at the Emirates we scored 1 goal.
Second time we played at the Emirates we scored 2 goals.
Third time…. he-he, may our run continue!
November 8th, 2008 at 13:02
Team News:
GK: VDS
RB: Neville
CB: Ferdinand
CB: Vidic
LB: Evra
RM: Park
CM: Carrick
CM: Anderson
LM: Ronaldo
ST: Rooney
ST: Berbatov
Subs: Pig, O’Shea, Evans, Da Silva, Nani, Giggs, Tevez
November 8th, 2008 at 13:03
park starts over nani…
November 8th, 2008 at 13:04
Line-up:
GK: Edwin Van Der Sar
RB: Gary Neville
CB: Rio Ferdinand
CB: Nemanja Vidic
LB: Patrice Evra
RW: Cristiano Ronaldo
CM: Michael Carrick
CM: Anderson
LM: Park Ji-Sung
ST: Wayne Rooney
ST: Dimitar Berbatov
subs: PIG, Rafael, Oshea, Nani, Evans, Giggs, Tevez
November 8th, 2008 at 13:05
we are going to seriously lack creativity down the left today…
November 8th, 2008 at 13:05
@JB: Damn, you beat me to it again! So my team prediction was right!
Hopefully the score prediction will be too! 
COME ON UNITED!!!
November 8th, 2008 at 13:06
Best possible team, I think. Injured or otherwise, Arsenal are a good attacking team, and Park with his energy is good to have.
What’s the Arsenal line-up?
November 8th, 2008 at 13:07
@SRAB: no, its not. nani over park, then best possible team.
questions over our best right back to.
November 8th, 2008 at 13:08
good team. Nani would have left too many gaps on the wings
November 8th, 2008 at 13:08
Anyopdy know if we will play in blue or white today?
November 8th, 2008 at 13:08
anderson will absolutely relish this game. i can see him controlling this game even better then last year.
November 8th, 2008 at 13:15
Dan, we’re not going to lack creativity down the left, we have Evra. I agree with you generally, I’d normally rather have Nani over Park. Just not here. Similarly with your questions over right-back. Would you rather have Da Silva? I would rather have Brown, but as he’s injured I’d pick Neville. I think you massively underestimate Arsenal’s attacking prowess. We can’t go gung-ho at this game, especially without Hargreaves as a lynch-pin.
If things aren’t going well, Nani, along with Tevez, will make for a great impact sub, as Tevez and Anderson did last year at OT. Arsenal’s squad is small, they are suffering from injuries, so a double sub that that would be devastating if things don’t go well immediately. Being at 0-0 with Nani and Tevez to come on at 60 mins is better than being at 2-2 with only Tevez to come on as an impact sub, with Arsenal’s confidence high having scored twice. I exaggerate the situations slightly, but I’m sure you get what I mean. As it happens, I think the line up is more than capable of scoring goals against Arsenal’s small and shaky back line, so it makes sense to do as much as we can to ensure we don’t leak stupid goals at the other end, alla last week with Hull.
November 8th, 2008 at 13:15
hi does anyone have a decent link to the game, for those without Sky. Got a feeling arse will raise thier game today – cant see past a draw
November 8th, 2008 at 13:17
Just as an add on to my previous comment: Walcott and Sagna are both playing: surely Park and Neville over Nani and da Silva is a good thing
November 8th, 2008 at 13:17
as for us to keep up with pool and chelsea, a draw is considered a loss.
November 8th, 2008 at 13:17
@SRAB: evra is not creative. He cant cross for shit, and all he does is pass to the LW and run forward.
this is the reason he is NOT the best LB in the world. he cant cross.
November 8th, 2008 at 13:24
Even though it looks like Arsenal are playing with their best team(excpet for striker departement), half of their team is partly injured. Sagne, Gallas, Walcott and Diaby have all been injured for a while and they are off form. They may raise their game but I cant see them scoring! Ill see you guys after the game.
COME ON UNITED!!!
November 8th, 2008 at 13:33
If we have signed Delph I’ll be very happy. Young, English, both footed. People have been raving about him. SKySports scouting report this week is on him and it’s very promising. I’d rather pay £5mil now than £25 mil in a couple of years time.
Still, we all know Leeds are our feeder club
November 8th, 2008 at 13:40
@Traverse: whats his strengths and weaknesses? would he be reserve regular, bench warmer, fringe or starter?
November 8th, 2008 at 13:44
Arsenal will be strong on the flanks so it is good we have Park playing to deal with their overlapping fullbacks. Arsenal have managed to put out a decent team although I guess a lot of their players aren’t fully fit.
If we control the midfield the game is ours as Arsenal do not have much going forward while we most certainly do! Anderson should be able to keep Fabregas relatively quiet and Carrick will pull the strings.
Berbatov is due a goal. 1 goal in 9 is well below his capabilities and he has had time to settle. I see goals from Berbatov and Ronaldo and a 2-1 victory.
November 8th, 2008 at 13:47
For this season and probably most of next he’ll be in the reserve team, making the odd appearance. He’s 18, a Midfielder.. quality passer in the Scholes/Carrick mold of seeing things before they happen.. gets stuck in and has a good shot on him. Well worth £5 million. Definitely one for the future.
November 8th, 2008 at 13:49
I think it smacks a tad bit of hipocracy from Wenger to play such a defensive side. His formation suggest that this game means much more to Arsenal, He knows losing today is not an option. I suspect this to be a very tight and cagey affair, and after seeing the Arsenal Line up, this game has draw written all over it.
November 8th, 2008 at 13:55
Haha! Tweety…
November 8th, 2008 at 14:11
we should be 2-0 up, now we’re 1-0 down…
November 8th, 2008 at 14:12
bloody fuck!! goal conceded in 23 mins. screw neville!!
November 8th, 2008 at 14:18
Nice open game with chances both ways. Unfortunately we are 1-0 down and if Arsenal take their chances and we don’t take ours I can easily see us losing. On the plus side we are dominating possession and I do not think Arsenal can keep this up.
November 8th, 2008 at 14:19
why is our finishing so poor?
November 8th, 2008 at 14:22
@bildani: rooneys finishing you mean…
November 8th, 2008 at 14:29
like i said, no creativity down the left…
November 8th, 2008 at 14:33
agreed. our industry or lack thereof in general is shocking. our passing and goalkeeping is leaving a lot to be desired.
November 8th, 2008 at 14:35
the ref is an arse.
November 8th, 2008 at 14:38
dont get me started on neville either, i cant wait till simpson gets back from loan, he’ll be our no.1 RB for sure. rafael isnt ready yet.
November 8th, 2008 at 14:38
I dont fault Neville for the goal, it was a bit unlucky. Neville did worry me a number of occasion when up against Nasri. He just didnt give me a lot of confidence.
Anderson has been immense, really looks confident out there. Cant wait for the 2nd half, I sense the equaliser is coming.
November 8th, 2008 at 14:39
VDS leaves me wincing…
November 8th, 2008 at 14:40
This game seems like it was planned to be a great advertisement for EPL football…all attack and no defense from both teams.
We should never be a goal behind with a half like that. Why didn’t we get a penalty too!!! Bloody ref!
November 8th, 2008 at 14:41
If we get an equaliser within the first 15 mins or so we could go on to win it
November 8th, 2008 at 14:41
@bildani: I disagree, our passing has been fine, its the finishing that has deserted us.
November 8th, 2008 at 14:43
Whats with Rooney’s finishing!?
These fucking 100 goals – 200 goals record leave players fumbling in front of the goal…
November 8th, 2008 at 14:45
Feckin Rooney, he thinks he’s playing feckin Rugby. Why have United players no feckin composure whatsoever in front of goal?. Rooney should have had three in the 1st half. I mean he was so off target, I bet he wished the ground could have opened up and swallowed him. Instead he does his crazy horse charge and looking to do a player. Ronnie is once again playing a great game so far. I am sorry to say, I love Edwin, but he is not agile anymore, and dithery with balls into the box. Andie, Michael, Park are not doing badly at all in midfield so far. If only we could get a shot on feckin target, Almunia can be beaten all hands down. See what happens 2nd half. Maybe Roon will get a sense of direction
.
November 8th, 2008 at 14:45
Btw, wasn’t the Carrick tackle against Diaby a foul?
The ref’s been crazy today…
Anywayz, our defense has left me scared for the 2nd half really…We better tighten up else they will surely score 2 or 3 more.
November 8th, 2008 at 14:47
no, diaby dived.
November 8th, 2008 at 14:48
guys, where i can listen to live commentary?which web?
November 8th, 2008 at 14:49
@antsBoy: yeah the announcer was right on the carrick tackle, its eaither a foul or a yelow for simulation. The reffing has been shaky to both teams.
November 8th, 2008 at 14:50
Carrick clearly caught Diaby with the foot, but i think the ref played intent.
Anyway, entertaining stuff so far.
November 8th, 2008 at 14:51
@dan(u-ol): Well, the replays show that Carrick made slight contact with Diaby’s trailing foot. I’m not complaining, but if Diaby dived, the ref should have carded him and didn’t do that either! Seriously, the refs in this league need to do their courses again.
November 8th, 2008 at 14:53
FUCK OFF
November 8th, 2008 at 14:54
nevilles fault again.
November 8th, 2008 at 14:54
wow!
November 8th, 2008 at 14:55
why the fuck are we giving them so much space?!
November 8th, 2008 at 14:56
Ronaldooooooooo! We won’t have many chances like that one!
November 8th, 2008 at 14:58
neville=retirement.
November 8th, 2008 at 14:59
is that VDS or some one else…please tell me he is on dope or something…
November 8th, 2008 at 15:01
foster in VDS out
da silva in neville out.
November 8th, 2008 at 15:02
2-0 bloody hell. Why do Arsenal decide to play well the day we come to town? Fabregas is quality and that Nasri guy is pretty tricky. Arsenal are playing with confidence and we really need a goal asap to knock the wind out of their sails.
Rooney cannot finish today if I see another shot over the bar Im going to scream. Hell Ronaldo cannot even to finish todaay that was a lovely chance just after Arsenal/s second goal. Berbatov is non existent and it is hard to see where we are going to get goals from.
November 8th, 2008 at 15:03
arsenal have let in as many goals in their last two premiership games than we have all season. we need to score. now.
November 8th, 2008 at 15:04
Nani and Tevez in, nobody out. It’s our only chance.
November 8th, 2008 at 15:08
gary neville has been found out….
November 8th, 2008 at 15:15
Bring On The Apache!!
November 8th, 2008 at 15:20
can someone please explain why anderson was substituted?
November 8th, 2008 at 15:20
is that another gaffe from the gaffer — giggs for ando??..another goal on the counter…midfield looks empty
November 8th, 2008 at 15:22
Fergies’s gone mad…crazy subs!!!
November 8th, 2008 at 15:27
this is absolutely crazy…
November 8th, 2008 at 15:28
i think its safe to assume rafael is our no.1 this season. neville cost us 2 goals. he cost us the match.
November 8th, 2008 at 15:31
Grr Ronaldo…just stick to the slave work in the dungeons from now on and leave the free-kicks to those who can actually get the ball over the wall!!
November 8th, 2008 at 15:32
After letting Liverpool believe they are a decent team, it seems we’ll do the same for Arsenal. We’re far too generous!
November 8th, 2008 at 15:33
Attack looks toothless…this hasn’t been our day. On another occasion we might well have won the game 3-2 or 4-2….*sigh*
November 8th, 2008 at 15:33
where was brown when we needed him the most? fergie should never have messed with the right black slot.now fergie must realise his value. and why was nani not given the start?
November 8th, 2008 at 15:35
Rafael
November 8th, 2008 at 15:35
GOAL
November 8th, 2008 at 15:36
Oh my! RAFAEL!!!! LOL…sick goal!!!
November 8th, 2008 at 15:36
Rafaeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel!
November 8th, 2008 at 15:44
i hope its the end of neville, he HAS cost us this game. did you see his face when rafael scored? he knows hes finished.
November 8th, 2008 at 15:45
fair play to arsenal, both sides had chances. At the end of the day they capitalised on our mistakes.
O and what a goal from Rafael!
November 8th, 2008 at 15:46
Loved it! Loved it! Loved it!!
Couldn’t care less about the final result, this was one of the best Premier League games I have seen in ages! United played really well, Arsenal played well, the speed was blinding and the skill was out of this world (brilliant Rafael, Nasri…). This is what I am talking about. Remember my Barcelona article (where I said that I would have preffered a loss with world class football to a boring away draw)? This is what I was talking about.
Phenomenal!! Brillaint Wenger, Ferguson and the players. Evrybody was entertained!!!
November 8th, 2008 at 15:49
Ronaldo missing that sitter, was when I knew it just wasnt our day.
November 8th, 2008 at 15:50
Why are we always trying to walk the ball into the net? Why are our crosses never getting to our players? We are playing too much pretty stuff. Why have Ferdinand and Vidic suddenly started zonal marking?! Was rooney on the piss last night? Were Park and Berbatov actually playing in that game?!! Giggs for Anderson – INEXPLICABLE.
After saying all that I still cannot believe we have lost that game.
November 8th, 2008 at 15:50
right, thank god i have a party to go tonight, im going have a good time with my mate jack daniels. i normally do not drink, but after todays game i want to be a serial alcoholic
FUCKING PATHETIC
love you rafael
November 8th, 2008 at 15:52
@Andrei: no offence mate, but for me, i do not care how we win, as long as we win especially games like this, i think i may be handle mourinhos dis-attacking football (lord please do not make me eat my comments)
November 8th, 2008 at 15:53
The demise of G. Neville is well and truly reality now. He hasn’t been the same since he came back and was the weakest link today; this has got to be the final nail in his coffin now, so in true Ann Robinson style….goodbye….
November 8th, 2008 at 15:53
@Andrei: I hate that we lost, but your right it was a great game. the result really could have gone either way.
November 8th, 2008 at 15:55
@RedDevilEddy: I must say that I cringed when I saw your post this morning, I just knew that you jinxed us all, and that your gonna have to eat your words. Next time keep those comments to yourself.
November 8th, 2008 at 15:55
lads we lost, but it really wont make a difference to our premier league campaign(probably). But, neville really has to fuck off, as does VDS.
this loss can lead to many good things! rafael and foster coming into the first team-permanently, shows fergie that he needs a proper assistant manager. i mean really, andy was controlling the game and was on fire despite his shooting, and he takes him off for giggs…
November 8th, 2008 at 15:55
Berbatov was shite today ..We should be playing Tevez for big games…Berba is just too lazy or “classy” as they say…cannot break a team up with that…think Rooney forgot his shooting boots and brain somewhere…Park was o.k…Anderson,vidic and Rafael was superb…Ronaldo was isolated in attack and same with Evra…
and above al…players not showing the right attitude at all.
November 8th, 2008 at 15:56
Arsenal on their day can beat anyone so fair play but why did their day have to be today. We did not look close to scoring. The only decent chances came to Ronaldo who uncharacteristically missed. The rest were just half chances which players of the calibre of Rooney should have really at least got on target. Where the hell was Berbatov? Completely went missing. The only time I noticed he was playing was when he got called offside all the time.
Brown is what we need at right back. But Rafael is pushing Neville for the deputy spot-solid tackling and a very well taken goal.
What pissed me off is how we kept putting stupid balls in the box and taking potshots. At least Arsenal tried to open us up with their passing.
Ronaldo was our best player-the only guy who looked close to scoring. But seriously he needs to work on his freekicks.
November 8th, 2008 at 15:56
I’ll tell you feckin what, Arsenal are more up for it than us in this game. They had Fabregas and Nasri who are nifty little gets with talent, but apart from that they didn’t have much. However, what they did have was sheer guts, blood and thunder. None of our forwards have any composure when in a crowded area, or in Rooneys case, wherever he is. Ronnie I will excuse his blatant bloody miss, because he was coming in with such speed, and only just missed the left post by inches. Surely to God, it will be better for us to not win anything this year, and blood a decent goalkeeper, Foster ? who is extremely agile, or get somebody who can get down to balls quicker than our beloved Edwin. Also Nev is finished, Rafael is far from the competent right back yet, and Wes hurry up back from injury sunshine. Great goal from Rafael
. The PL are not afraid of us anymore on present reckoning, Hull proved that last week.
November 8th, 2008 at 15:59
@colver: The only decent chances came to Ronaldo ?????. Fuck me, Rooney should have had a hat trick, if he wasn’t trying to play Rugby football that is
.
November 8th, 2008 at 15:59
Im dead….
Fuck, this is so annoying. If our finishin hasnt been worse than a monkeys we would have won this fooking game. To be honest, it was one of the games of the season. But I ahte losing against Arsenal and on a day like this it only feels worse. Agree with Dan about Neville retiering, Rafael is the future and should be persent. Good goal mate!
Nobody talk to me….
November 8th, 2008 at 16:01
@Shyam: Very sensible insight mate, couldn’t agree with you more.
November 8th, 2008 at 16:03
@Shyam: Berbatov has a off day in front of goal, and so now his starting spot is in doubt. If fergie had the same knee jerk reactions some of the people on the board seem to have, Berba,tevez,nani,andy,fletcher,park,giggs would never play again. Having said that Neville really is done at united, this isnt the first game he has played poorly. This game was just the final nail in the coffin.
November 8th, 2008 at 16:04
So we have a 30m pound STRIKER who had a grand total of ZERO shots on goals in 96 mins of football!!! Class!
And thanks Fergie for very efficiently screwing what was our strength last year – the Rooney, Tevez, Ronaldo axis!
Against all the major opposition Berbatov has not scored for us so far – FACT.
Bye Bye PL!
November 8th, 2008 at 16:04
rooney was no better then berbatov. some fans are calling him a flop, one bad game and hes a flop
.
November 8th, 2008 at 16:05
Except for Rafael, poor substitutions by Fergie again. The moment Ando was replaced we basically conceded the midfield battle, and removing Rooney, for Tevez…
One thing I’m sure now.. We should never rest Rooney or rotate him to give another player playing time when he’s on one of his scoring spurts period. The need to give Tevez some playing time, might well have dimmed Rooney’s sharpness in front of goal. And it does not look as if Tevez is going to score either.
Good one, from Rafael nonetheless. I’m less harsh on Neville as the two strikes by Nasri could hardly have been saved, at least I get that impression. But I do think that our defence has been shaky in the absence of Brown. Get well soon Wes, we never needed you more…
November 8th, 2008 at 16:06
well well… Nevile costed us 3points or perhaps 1.. I’ve never wished anyone bad but i wish he gets an injury asap that will keep him out the team for good
I mean shooting when he should be crossing, he was out of position half the time and he must be the slowest right back in football I’m sure… Legend yes but surely past it now. Lets get wes back there permanently after all wes vidi Rio and pat formed a great defense before we messed about with it— if its not broke don’t fix it
and now onto Fergie- what a great man manager no doubt but tactically shocking– i say bring on the qualifiers and let’s see Portugal loose more points so that our tactical genius can get back to his rightful job as manu no.2
Now after this match and some of our recent sloppy defending i feel we have no chance of regaining the prem unless we have lampard and cech and terry injured for 3 months.. i know we slow starters but this is taking the piss we need a fucking decent winning streak… fuck I’m so angry
Fucked up my weekend 
November 8th, 2008 at 16:06
@RedDevilEddy: Agreed with johnsom33…I also cringed with embarassment when I read that comment, and I had a sinking feeling in my stomach that your words were premature and might come back to haunt us…and so they have.
Now some Gooners will randomly come across this blog, read your comment which is the 1st one on this page and LOL their heads off at how arrogant some of our support are, which will make their victory seem all the more sweeter, but certainly I do not begrudge them the victory as they narrowly shaded it IMO, and I cannot wait for the return fixture at Old Trafford!! Sheer drama and excitement!
November 8th, 2008 at 16:07
@jos: thank you captain stupid for that valuable insight. 11 apps, 5 goals, 6 assists compared to tevez 12 apps, 1 goal, no assists…
oh, i guessing celtic isnt a major team aswell…
November 8th, 2008 at 16:08
They wanted it more than us. We allowed them too much time and space in our half of the field and if you do that to Arsenal they will murder you.Carrick and Ando have both a good game (particulary Ando) but they are not holding players. We misss Hargo. Agree that Neville is past it. For all the brilliance of Roonie and Berbatov Ronaldo (not much on show today) Ronaldo is by a mile our best attacking player.
November 8th, 2008 at 16:08
@Craig Mc: The last part i agree with, usually before going into a game with smaller teams, the fear of playing us in there already, but after our performances this season, I don’t think we’ll be feared like we usually are. But i have to say, I’m not really surprised, i knew it was never gonna be a massacre especially since it was at the Emirates and Arsenal were out to prove a point, But oh well…
November 8th, 2008 at 16:10
Did you guys see the replay of Clichy yellow card tackle on Ronaldo? I dont think Clichy had intent to hurt Ronaldo, but it was very close to being a horrific injury. A fraction of a second earlier and Ronaldo would have had all his weight on that foot.
November 8th, 2008 at 16:11
@ jos
Idiot.
November 8th, 2008 at 16:11
Neither Arsenal or us will win the PL this year, that’s my prophesy and I will stand by that. I don’t think the lads have lost their hunger, I just think the margin between winning and losing is so marginal, and we have just lost a little something, I can’t put my finger on it. As somebody wisely said, we have reverted to lumping long balls up the pitch when we need a goal in the final half hour of games, instead of doing what Arsenal did, play their football in and around the box. Berba’s heading ability is limited – sorry. Also, he does not do well in games where space is a scarcity, contrary to what Fergie says. He does well in Europe, because it is a slower tempo game, and he has more time to work his artistry. I know he cost 30 million, and Fergie would look an idiot if he wasn’t playing him, but in games like today, he contributed little, and should have been brought on as a sub, anyone agree?.
November 8th, 2008 at 16:12
WOW, what a feckin pathetic performance
everyone was poor today, bar Vidic and little Rafael. We couldn’t keep the ball, no leadership, no hunger, WTF??? I place the blame solely on Fergie. Poor team selection and even poorer substitutions.
When are we gonna give up on these oldies?? Both Neville and VDS cost us the game today, and Giggs on instead of Nani was puzzling??? Seriously Fergie, this is what you get when you under-estimate a good team. If this is what we can offer in a game of this magnitude, then i’m sorry, we might as well be handing over our titles right now. These are the sort of games you prove your credentials and hunger to win more trophies. Instead, we went in with arrogance and no hunger or leadership.
Feckin Neville, how is he supposed to lead or inspire the team when he is the weak link. Fergie knows this, yet still allows him to be captain, all to the detriment of the team. Craig my man, ur right, Arsenal showed more guts and hunger and we’re just feckin strolling. If anyone tells me we’re slow starters, i’ll feckin send them a parcel with some anthrax in it; this is feckin November!!! We should be firing on all cylinders right now.
AARRGHHH!!! I feckin wanna strangle Fergie right now, he’s costing us games and vital points with his line-ups and substitutions. This team have no hunger and he’s the one given them an excuse to hide behind with this slow starters bullshit. If Fergie can’t see this, what is feckin Mike Phelan doing, eh? Jeeez, I never expected such poor performances this season, we were supposed to be stronger, yet we’re weaker. Fergie is dropping the ball Big time and I hope the board are brave enough to have a stern word with him!!!
November 8th, 2008 at 16:12
People on here having a go at berba and rooney r just stupid, i think its plain and simple to see our weak point is the centre of midfield. To people that know me like i and craig mc have said we need a new defensive midfield enforcer. I must have counted at least 3 times when the centre back, yes the centre back, ran all the way from his own half to our penalty area without even being tackled. 1 time that centre back was our once very own silvestre, r we that bad in the middle that we let him run all the way through us.
Just put it this way. If roy keane was still playing for us and the 2 players he was coming up against in the middle was denilson and fabregas, i wud imagine he wud just laugh and not have to break a sweat and still keep them both in his pocket. Today apart from anderson we were rubbish and our midfield looked so lightweight it was painful to watch. If we are to win a trophy this year we must invest in a new defensive midfielder. Now the player that i wud love wud be gattuso. I dont really watch italian football (despite being half italian myself)
but apparently he isnt playing much theses days due to flamini and ambrosini so i pray to God that we make a bid for him in jan. The way i see it its simple, no new defensive midfielder-no title.
November 8th, 2008 at 16:13
@dan(u-ol): What has CL goals got to do with PL? He has one goal only in the league so far and has played all games.
Why was he bought???
November 8th, 2008 at 16:14
@dan(u-ol): Im not disagreeing with your overall point, but that stat is a little misleading. Tevez has the appearances but they are not starts, and the appearances are sporadic.
November 8th, 2008 at 16:14
I am worried about our Premier League aspirations now. We have played all three of our Big 4 rivals away from home and have lost twice and garnered only 1 point out of 9. That is dreadful form..we should be looking at around 5-6 points as an acceptable minimum (two wins and a loss, or one win and two draws?) from these three games.
I know there is still a long way to go but I am starting to become pessimistic (taking a leaf out of the Grog’s book lol) and thinking that Chelski might just run away with the title this year, with the Dippers real contenders for the runners up spot (blasphemic as it may sound) and us fighting off L’Arse for the third spot.
November 8th, 2008 at 16:14
@Nino : I dont think we are spoiled bunch..The attitude was bad and desire shown by players was close to zero…and when i some one says what Berba did in PL after a good amount of starts (other than the superb assist to Ronaldo), what can we answer??…
November 8th, 2008 at 16:18
@Nino: Thing is though, I was watching game on the net, and they showed the arsenal fans in the last 20 minutes, and they were truly shitting themselves. It was the charge of the blue brigade, and Arsenal fans fingers were bitten to the edge. If we had have had our shooting boots on today, especially Rooney in the 1st half, we would have nailed them. So Le Arse fans cant do too much crowing.
November 8th, 2008 at 16:24
@Craig Mc: mate i’m starting to believe that too… we’re just not showing that hunger or grit that potential champions do. I mean, two seasons ago, at the start of our PL winning campaign, we came off the blocks flying, there was a determination in their eyes and we won the PL comfortably. Last season, we started slowly and were fortunate the other teams slipped up and still barely won it. This season i’m afraid we won’t have the same luck.
I couldn’t agree more about the long balls!! WTF was that all about?? Your’e trying to win or eaqualise in a game and you keep on tossing the ball up the park when you have talented players on the pitch??? Jeez, i’m so pissed at Fergie and the players right now
I know titles are not handed out in November, but they are definitely lost. It was a great game, but only due to Arsenals’ great performance.
November 8th, 2008 at 16:29
player rating
VDS- quite game made a dumb blunder punching to diaby could have easily have been a goal if carrick was not at the right place
6
NEVILLE-Absolutely VILE from NEVILLE both goals were his mistakes, and the amount of crosses that came from the right hand side that could have been goals was unbelievable only when rafa came on the right flank was sured up
4
RIO- let bendtner get the better of him one too many times, if bendtner as a better player arse could have scored more
6
VIDA- the amount of times i said i love you vida during this game was crazy he was great read the game really well and was the best defender on the pitch
7.5
EVRA- left back pat did not make their right back look like crap, contained walcott rather well i suppose for that he gets a…
7
RONALDO- was he on the pitch, most of the time he was in clichy’s pocket, i swear clichy is the only defender in this world who can contain ronaldo, and that sitter
6
PARK- everytime he got touched by a player he was rolling all over the floor, he has no balance what so ever and was a poor choice over nani, we should have exploited sagna for not being 100% but we failed to do that
5
CARRICK- was decent broke up plays but his passing which is the dudes main asset was no where to be found
6
ANDERSON- put fabregas in his place, maybe not denilson (who i felt was the man of the match) was the only player on the pitch with desire or ambition and even tried to score a few times, got forward a lot too and made some good passes, as well as bad ones
7.5
ROONEY-i think you left you’re shooting boots back at carrington wazza, if you did not, the score line would have been really different shame he played with temper instead of brains as he gave away needless fouls 100 is starting to become a real burden on him
6
BERBA- i can see why people are pissed at him, not a single shot on target, then again where was the supply?
6
Subs-
Rafael- congratulations my son, you are now officially second in the RB hierarchy, took his goal beautifully and made some great challenges and was not that bad in defence, still needs to bulk up a bit and he will be ahead of the black ginger
7.8
GIGGS- one word WHY, why did he come on for anderson our best player on the pitch, and he really did not do much once he came on,
6
TEVEZ- still trying to much, he wants to score a hatrick with two shots and it’s just not happening
6
November 8th, 2008 at 16:33
i think the Caf fans must be blind because they thought Park was great. IDK what the hell they were watching.
November 8th, 2008 at 16:35
@Craig Mc: The little something we are missing has a name: Wesley Brown.
Last season when the going got tough we always relied on our defence to see us through. There is no doubt that many goals we conceded this season came from the wing Nev is supposed to defend…
Also does anybody found else find it strange that Castrrick was preferred to Fletcher. Barring JB, I’m Carrick’s biggest supporter here on redrants, but I find it a bit surprising that he’s been chosen as starter for such an important match, especially when the Fletcher – Ando axis was working well for us…
November 8th, 2008 at 16:36
@Nino: True, we should have gotten at least 4pts from the 9pts that were available against the big teams so far. We really have to make sure we’re near our best when they come to OT, so we can still get 10 out of 18pts.
@Gabriel: Seriously you should know by now, that Fergie will ALWAYS favour experience rather than youth in big games, i don’t think he underestimated Arsenal, but he just put a little too much faith in his old guards.
November 8th, 2008 at 16:37
Can any1 please tell me if gattuso is getting regular games at milan. If not then please god lets make a move for him in jan.
November 8th, 2008 at 16:39
@Gabriel: Gabriel my man, EMOTIONS are running high, its a crescendo Bro
. We only turn up for certain parts of games it seems, and we do have our purple patches, but I am beginning to think, AND don’t ALL STONE ME please, that when Ronnie’s goals are not flowing, we have little else in most games. I certainly felt we tried in the last half hour today, we didn’t give up on the game, but IF ONLY our goal had come a little earlier, I think we could have forced at least a draw. Gary was well off the pace, and I feel Fergie’s stubborness in persisting with starting players for at leat an hour IS detrimental to us. I mean, I have seen Mourinho hoist players off after 25 minutes if they weren’t doing it on the pitch. Still, we give Fergie a lot of respect because he has been a great Manager, but he isn’t making great managerial decisions at the moment, because hE IS A sentimentalist, AND I don’t know what has happened to him, because he used to be FIERCE with players who weren’t cutting it. He does have his favourites though, and always have done. That’s life though, because we all like to be loyal to our friends don’t we?. 
. By the way, I am on calm seas now, mainly due to a few Jack Daniels and the best BACON BUTTIES the GF can make 
.
November 8th, 2008 at 16:41
@Matthew: How old is Gattuso though Bro?.
November 8th, 2008 at 16:43
@NicoQB: Fletcher is injured mate, he wasn’t fit.
November 8th, 2008 at 16:46
Gattuso is 30. I dont think we need him.
November 8th, 2008 at 16:49
Craig mc, i know hes getting on in years but he is just like a keane player. Tell me this mate i know ur one person who agrees with me and thinks we shud get an enforcer type player, but who wud u recommend. Theres not too many gr8 players out there. Gattuso wud make us much more harder to break down so i think he wud be a gr8 signing.
November 8th, 2008 at 16:49
@Mr.Muhozi: If you didnt see ronaldo on the pitch then I question what it is you saw. He was by far our best attacking player, and the miss was bad but thats football. As for him being in Clichy’s pocket, that is a joke Ronaldo did what he wanted, I think clichy got the ball off him like once or twice.
November 8th, 2008 at 16:50
good-bye or beloved title… now since its probably over i think it would be wise to do a wenger and start blooding our youngster’s in midfield i.e possebon, Gibson and maybe even that winger Stewart from the academy and reserves .. they’ll show more passion and commitment.. lets keep our “stars” fresh for cup games ala Liverpool lol no but honestly speaking does anyone think we missed fletcher today our only big game player— the one we can call to to cover for o shocking defense of our lack of midfield forward runs… oh and times like this that i miss ruud he’d definitely poked one in today by getting on the end of things eh? i hope we bounce back… we can only focus on winning now and hope for opposition injuries and slip ups
November 8th, 2008 at 16:53
PATHETIC PERFORMANCE!!!
Bad substitutes again from SAF. Poor tactics in general. Bad performance from our forwards. Apart from Rafeal’s goal, not many good points to take home.
When will all the Berbatov dopers realise that he is NOT performing. 12 games and still no Berbatov??? Pls do not call the stats, because we all know that 2 goals were off-side, and 2 were ‘lucky’ ones that even Park would have finnished off. The assists also don’t impress me. Apart from the 1 moment of brilliance, I’m not impressed. 30 mil for a 28 year old..I expected more. You don’t pay that amount for that age for POTENTIAL. Fuck that! And, I don’t buy this “he needs more games” either. How many players in United’s history got a run of 12 90min games and still do not perform to his expected ability? What pisses me off is not really the fact that he is dissapointing, but the fact that SAF refuses to substitute him when obviously he is not in form.
The reason why I’m venting my anger at him is because SAF changed the style of play of our team to suit him. We no longer have a free-flowing, inter-changing forward line. We are playing SHIT!!!
Let’s face it…No way we are going to win the league this year…not the way we’re playing lately.
November 8th, 2008 at 16:53
Curtis i was just saying the same thing mate, i think that now our title challenge is over really so maybe now we shud start building for the future. Bring in foster as 1st choice, start giving rafael a chance in more games and introduce possebon more and more.
November 8th, 2008 at 16:54
most importantly…we missed brown and fletcher today. and rafael should be our second choice especially when we are chasing games. and thanks for you service, gary. you should be ready for a third choice role or else he should retire.
PS. its not the end of the world. loads of matches are left and the title is very much in our hands. who knows, this match might benefit us in the long run as it clearly allows fergie to see error of his ways.
November 8th, 2008 at 16:57
ok. first off, that was the most abismal performance i’ve seen in a long long time… well since celtic at least… rafael was the only player who was worthy of that shirt today… sounds harsh but is fair from where im standing.. seriously what the hell was the idea behind backing off every single arsenal player… and then twating the ball back to them…. garry as much as i love him is past it… today has proven so… ronaldo looked clueless for most of it… but thats probably because his body was covered in bruises after 20 mins… anderson was a pile of wank… what the hell has gone wrong with him? too much night time partying with mica richards and the rest of the party animals at city is my guess… seriously what a shocking performance… can not wait for hargreaves to come back… seriously agree with the comment above about gattuso.. at least it would look like we mean it instead of holding a conference in midfield about everytime we got the ball.. only to give it to them again… and again… and again… also why the fuck did carrick get booked he went for the ball so did the keeper.. no malice and from what i saw no dangerous play. never looked like we would win after the first 5.. and just tipifies the performances from the team this season… far too complacent as if ronaldo is gonna save us this year? laid back and not wanting it enough… what hurts the most is that STOKE! yes ST’throw the ball rory’OKE beat that pile of shite the other weak and we got out muscled out of this game… disgraceful… Keano would never have let that happened… you can say all you like about oh it was at their place etc etc… here it is… we are not going to win the title this season if we play like the absoutle garbage we did today…. berba for christ sakes close your man down its not hard… even rooney can do that much, too bad he couldn’t finish for toffee.
Rant over.
November 8th, 2008 at 16:58
Our season is going in one of two directions;
1. the players (and arguably Fergie [i do trust him but somethings going wrong one has to admit]) will wake up and rediscover their hunger.
2. Things will stay like this and we will end up (if we are lucky) with the Carling Cup.
I really want to believe that we can bounce back, but This afternoons display has broken my heart. Sorry for the pessimism and the nagativity but I cant see us going anywhere. The Arse are fighting back, the Dippers are becoming a formidable side, and Chelscum are as difficult as ever. I think that as it is, we are going to be the laughing stock of the league. I do not want to think of the stick im gonna get on monday.
November 8th, 2008 at 17:01
@Craig Mc: My bad.
He would av made a difference me thinks.
@curtis: According to Nickogs of unitedyouth, second to Possebon is the one-goal-per-game central midfield Matty James. I’m really loking forward to seeing him.
@Mr.Muhozi: Hmm, I also agree you were a bit harsh on PArk. True I can’t understand Nani’s omission, but park was quite dangerous today, creating free kick opportuities (if only Ronnie had his shootin boots on), shooting on target, hassling his immediate match up on the wing… Though Nani should have really be introduced in the last 30 min…
November 8th, 2008 at 17:01
Will thank u mate for agreeing with a few of my points. Can u imagine how keane wud have been feeling had he been coming up against the likes of fabregas, diaby and denilson when he was playing. He would have been laughing. Gattuso would have bossed the game today and it wud have allowed ando to get further forward.
November 8th, 2008 at 17:02
Well it was a good game to watch at least. On another day we could have won the game or ended up 3-3, such are the fine margins that games are won and lost though. Didn’t pay much heed at the end but I wouldn’t be surprised if they celebrated like they had won the treble. To be honest, despite the win, they still have the same weaknesses as always. In a sense the win has done them no favours (other than the points won) as it serves to hide the same old failings that were apparent even today. Now the ratings:
VDS: Didn’t cost us anything but it wasn’t for the lack of trying. Flapping about could have easily have given away at least one goal and a poor clearance another. Unfortunately this dodgy spell seems to be going a bit longer than his loss of form at the end of 06/07. Foster and Pig must surely be breathing down his neck by now. 5
Neville: Absolutely shocking, although I won’t be enough of a twat to try and blame him for the first goal. Turned inside out by Nasri, failed to close down Arsenal players quick enough and let crosses in from which we could have conceded two goals. Got too close to Fabregas for the second and got left for dead. If that wasn’t bad enough his attacking play was horrendous other than one neat link up with Ronaldo. Passing was off too, even when they were finding United players they were normally over/under hit leaving them with a lot of work just to retain possession. 4
Ferdinand: Got caught under the ball a couple of times early in the game on crosses. One poor bit of play nearly let Arsenal away in the second. That said he spent a lot of the time facing Arsenal attackers one on one and dealt reasonably. Even if he was at his best it probably wouldn’t have made much difference. 6
Vidiv: Excellent, crisp tackler and no one got past him. Major improvement from recent careless performances. 7
Evra: Decent performance, nothing more. Contained Walcott and I felt he was a tad unfortunate to give away the free kick we conceded from. Tried to get forward but nothing much came off for him today. 6.5
Park: Worked hard, was industrious and passed the ball well. Good run a shot which could have set up a goal if Ronaldo had the senses to sit the rebound up to the back post. Provided Evra with valuable support on his flank. 7
Carrick: Excellent in terms of positioning, tackling and intercepting. Very conservative in passing for most of the game although he retained possession competently. 6
Anderson: Showed passion and tremendous work rate along with better than usual range of passing. Dealt with Fabregas well and complemented Carrick. Unfortunate to be subbed but I can appreciate the logic in the move as SAF probably wanted more guile in CM without changing the shape of team radically. 7.5
Ronaldo: Performed reasonably well for most of the game and was our most dangerous attacker for the bulk of the game. Missed chance at start of the second half probably cost us the chance at a realistic fight back. And before more people harp on about his free kicks it is worth point out that he scored the first of his five on the fifth match day of the CL group stages last year. 7
Rooney: Ok but shooting radar was off today. Nothing to criminal other than the miss from about 12 yards out, the rest weren’t exactly easy chances. 6
Berbatov: Started well but his score steadily fell as the game went on. Became virtually invisible as the game wore on and against a central defence that often struggles in the air he had all the aerial presence of a dwarf with lead boots on. 5.5
Subs:
Da Silva: Added attacking impetous and scored an excellent goal. Still wouldn’t want to start him in games like these as he is still getting caught out defensively at times. Given the situation we were in when he came in, it hardly mattered though. 7
Giggs: Played ok when he came on. Not much more to say to be fair. 6
Tevez: Ran about a lot…….. and that’s about it.
SAF: Team set up was ok and on another day could have brought us a win. Subs I don’t necessarily agree with but I can see what he was trying to do with them. Shame the armchair managers just assume he is an idiot/senile. 7
November 8th, 2008 at 17:03
Agree Berbatov has 1 goal in 9 EPL games and that goal was against West Brom. In Europe he scored against Aalborg and Celtic who aren’t exactly top class opposition. OK he needs time but seriously when it comes to scoring goals we are a one man team and signs are that Ronaldo will not be as prolific as last season. It was such an open game that we should have created much better chances than the ones we did and we should have scored a couple.
As it was Arsenal got the first goal and found their passing rhythm and I hate to admit it but they outpassed us and outclassed us.
Forget a ball winning midfielder. Anderson was winning the ball time after time in midfield. We just didn’t use our possession effectively while Arsenal looked dangerous every time they broke from midfield.
Craig I wouldn’t say Rooney had easy chances. Most of his shots were from outside the box. Having said that on his day he can score those so I was disappointed with Rooney. From that range you at least want to test the goalkeeper or force a corner.
Arsenal loaded the middle pretty good so our main penetration was from the flanks. But what good is that when we have zero players who can cross (except for Nani) and zero players who can head the damn ball (except Ronaldo who was playing wide today).
Lets ditch Tevez, get some balance and buy a striker who can get into the box and get on the end of crosses. Bendtner is crap but he had three decent aerial chances just because he is tall and a target for the Arsenal fullbacks who can cross.
November 8th, 2008 at 17:07
And the luck isnt with us either. Last year, everything was falling onto our laps like the first torrential downpour after years of drought. the ref missed clichy’s handball, had nev been standing a few yards to his right, no first goal. (To name a few painful, lucky breaks this season)
We had chances too, we didnt take em. We have looked off all season, and it hasnt changed one bit. We have not been clinical enough.
November 8th, 2008 at 17:10
we lost but still i cant see arsenal as title contenders
November 8th, 2008 at 17:12
Colver u say forget buying a ball winner cos ando was doing that, yes thats true but that takes something out of andos game cos he is having 2 sit back and help out defensively instead of going forward.
November 8th, 2008 at 17:14
@edi: Awwww mate, don’t be brokenhearted, its only a football game. Its not the feckin life or death situation some people are facing everyday. Look come round to our house for a few Jack Daniels and bacon butties, that will SORT IT
.
November 8th, 2008 at 17:14
Another point why the hell have we not tried to bring in gus poyet, he is not at a club for god sakes, seems we only wanted him when we was at spurs and now hes free hes not good enough.
November 8th, 2008 at 17:14
I really dont want to appear as one of those know it all,football manager loving(it is a good game though) armchair managers but something is going on. I lack the inspiration to believe in a comeback, even though i know that SAF is the only man who can make it happen. We all need to be inspired. we all need to have a reason to believe again. Please, United. Make me believe again.
November 8th, 2008 at 17:19
@colver: Zaki, Zaki, Zaki. By the way, why did we sign Manucho, if we are not going to give him a game, bloody lunatic. And he is good in the air, won’t get a chance to prove it at United though.
November 8th, 2008 at 17:22
yeah i want manucho 2 get a game as well
November 8th, 2008 at 17:23
@Craig Mc: You have no idea how he is or isn’t performing in training though.
November 8th, 2008 at 17:23
@Will: Don’t agree with you ther bro. Anderson was the only player giving his all today. Remember the Rooney miss? That came from some formidable work form ando in the first place. He was a capable enforcer today, his only flaw being his usual abysmal shooting.
I thought that for 60 min the game was quite balanced. Arsenal had all the shooting luck (or rather Fergie gave them free reign on the right with Ronaldo- not likely to defend, and Gary – past it + a tricky player like Nasri) I thought we created enough opportunities, but didnt convert them. After an hour gone. Arsenal parked the bus and the United palyers lost the will to battle and probably were a bit tired after Wednesday…
Question to all: Was Berba’s goal in the first half really offside? Many here are slating him (I get the impression they’ve been waiting for this) but had the goal stood they would have sung a differnt song entirely.
Recap of the offside rule : If the attacking player is level on the last defender – by level it means the attacker might be leaning forward and the defender leaning in the other direction, with just a foot from both players on the same line, then the goal stands.
November 8th, 2008 at 17:24
@Mr.Muhozi: those player ratings are too generous mate, this is what they should read:
VDS – 4
Nevile- 3
Rio – 4
Vida – 6
Evra – 5
Carrick – 5
Ando – 6
Park – 2
Ronaldo – 5
Berbatov – 4
Rooney – 4
Subs:
Rafael – 7
Giggs – 4
Tevez – 4
Manager – 2
It was abysmal!!! That’s the only word for what United did today. I don’t care that we lost, but it’s how we lost!! How are teams supposed to respect us with that kind of limp performance??? How are we going to challenge on any front if we can’t take advantage of a demoralized group of kids?
Fergie is really dropping the ball and is almost making excuses for the players now which never used to happen. Why he can’t see that we are performing poorly and it is costing us is beyond me. I mean, the team has no leader on the pitch. There is no hunger, determination or grit. it’s like they feel they have the right to win matches by just showing up. This was really evident just before we conceded the 2nd goal, instead of coming out of the blocks flying and looking for that equalizer, we came out strolling, expecting Arsenal to quiver and gift us a goal.
Jeez, this team needs to be shook up and feckin Mike Phelan is not man enuff to speak to Fergie about his failings so far. Hopefully, David Gill and Sir Bobby can have a word with Fergie, cuz his lax attitude is infecting the players and is showing in our performances and attitude on the pitch.
November 8th, 2008 at 17:25
@Craig Mc: Thanks, I needed a lift.
November 8th, 2008 at 17:27
@Craig Mc: Im gonna start rooting around the house for some spirits as well. Thanks for the suggestion.
November 8th, 2008 at 17:28
@JB: No you just assume the armchair fans think Fergie is an idiot/senile. There’s that old sanctimonious-ism again
. I am not afraid to say though, that Fergie has made some idiotic team selections at times, poor substitutions and tactics? – well debatable on more than a few occasions. Oh and this comes from a usual terrace, not an armchair fan.
November 8th, 2008 at 17:29
@edi: You go Bro – as adidas says – just do it
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November 8th, 2008 at 17:33
@Craig Mc: My problem is that people assume he has lost it. There is no attempt to try and figure out what his reasoning and logic is. He makes a decision and it doesn’t come off fair enough, wrong call, maybe he judged it wrong, misread the istuation etc.
But no, the decisions have no reason, are completely senseless, he is an idiot, he has lost the plot etc
And these are things I have seen said this year (although not all necessarily here).
SAF isn’t all knowing or infalliable but he is not the blundering idiot people try to make out at times.
November 8th, 2008 at 17:33
Nice of you to use “senile”. That is EXACTLY what I’ve been saying all game, and for the past few games. I don’t think Fergie is going senile. It is evident to me that he is going senile.
November 8th, 2008 at 17:33
@Craig Mc: @JB: On the other hand, Zaki was on par with Manucho top scorer of the ACN. Had Zaki come to OT, there’s no guarantree he would have got the necessary minutes to make an impact. Similarly, had Manucho gone to some midtable team, every red manc and dipper alike might have been screaming for their manager to sign him…
November 8th, 2008 at 17:34
@Craig Mc: actually, it’s nike
November 8th, 2008 at 17:35
@NicoQB- yeah I’ve heard of him too bu haven’t seen any of him… but its been such a long while since we’ve had any youngster to shout about i wish we could blood some youngsters with potential of course into the first team as these are the players that play with their hearts on their sleeves anyway i hope we give them more of a chance as we loose too many of them.. like we’ll surely be loosing Campbell permanently next summer..
Anyway guys is it me or are we missing carlos queiroz seriously.. he would’ve found a way to hide our poor midfield.. there is no sign of tactics from the managerial team.. it’s as though Fergie says “ok you lot are playing today now get out there and make me proud”
our only realistic chance of silverware is f.a cup and league cup but even that may be hard to reach– cause arsenal are probably eying them out too——– We need to make our players watch some more tapes of our past sides like we did last year to fire them up for CL. cause they seem to feel that since last season was a great season for the fans they don’t need to deliver anymore
November 8th, 2008 at 17:36
@JB: If your talking about Manucho, I watch ALL the reserve games, and all the videos the media put up of United in training. Although Manucho has only just started playing the last couple of games because of broken metatarsel. He is good enough in training for West Brom scouts to want to pay 5 million for him
.
November 8th, 2008 at 17:38
@curtis: As long as we avoid the other top english clubs in the CL draw, I think we will do OK in Europe.
November 8th, 2008 at 17:39
@Gabriel: Oh ok – thanks for letting me know –
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November 8th, 2008 at 17:39
@Gabriel: Park a 2? JB has a fai assessment of him in his player ratings…
@Karl: Who would you rather have? We all know Fergie’s not a tactical genius. THat’s why we’ve been begging for a decent no.2.
November 8th, 2008 at 17:41
@Gabriel: You should really go home, cool off and have a nap, yes we lost, but no offense those ratings are just knee- jerk and laughable at best.
November 8th, 2008 at 17:41
@NicoQB: I’ve seen quite a bit of that in the past in these situations, Park tends to be a fairly easy target when something goes wrong even if he has been decent enough himself in the game.
November 8th, 2008 at 17:42
@Karl: Do you have a death wish from the Fergie faithful Karl?. Watch your back mate.
.
November 8th, 2008 at 17:45
@Karl: Are you sure you aren’t an Arsenal fan on a wind- up????
November 8th, 2008 at 17:45
matthew I am happy for Anderson to stay and defend because at least then he doesn’t try and fail to shoot. He was one of our best players today. Carrick was abysmal-it is his job to thread the balls through for Rooney and Berbatov and he just wasn’t doing it.
Anderson isn’t the creative midfielder we dreamed him to be but Im happy with what he does. Carrick has a role to play and is usually a lot better. But with Scholes on his last legs sometimes I think we need a playmaker to unlock defences. We are too reliant on the counter attack so when teams sit back and defend a lead we struggle to break them down.
November 8th, 2008 at 17:46
@Craig Mc: Can’t say I had heard a price quoted for him but fair enough. We will likely see him in the next CC game (this week is it?).
November 8th, 2008 at 17:47
@JB: I don’t think most people feel Fergie has lost it or his decisions are crap. Of course there are reasons behind most of his tactics and subs, they are evident, but when he gets it wrong for a good number of our games this season, you then have to start questioning his reasoning. Then there’s the lax attitude and protecting of the players, despite their complacent performances. All this ’slow starters’ and ‘we’re getting back to full fitness’ talk is merely a shield the Boss is giving the players to hide behind after poor performances.
It’s not all on Fergie though, the players have to take some responsibility. They are the ones on the pitch and if they don’t show that grit needed to succeed at the top, then they have no one else to blame. Tell me you think they are showing the same grit and drive they have shown the last two seasons? That’s where the problem is, and Fergie giving them excuses is not gonna help regain that important aspect of the game winners need to succeed.
November 8th, 2008 at 17:48
@JB: I hear you Bro, but Fergie judging it wrong as you say, is happening a whole lot too much lately for my liking. But thats just my take on things JB, and Fergie has a way of coming back to HAUNT the questioners. Don’t think this year is going to be one of those times of haunting though, but who knows, I am open to it, of course
.
November 8th, 2008 at 17:48
@Karl: With supporters like you who needs enemies. I suppose you would have had SAF drummed out the door in 2005 then
November 8th, 2008 at 17:52
@JB: Yea JB, I am looking forward to seeing how the reserves play against QPR in the cup. They have a chance to make a name for themselves. Hope Manucho at least starts this time, so that we can all have a good look for ourselves and SEE if we think he is an OT player.
November 8th, 2008 at 17:53
@Gabriel: No I don’t think they are showing th same drive this season. That said SAF is one of the best man managers in the business. Sometimes people need a rocket, other times an arm round the shoulder. If he doesn’t want to rip into players in public and the media then I think that’s fair enough. We honestly don’t know what happens behind closed doors.
@Craig Mc: I’m inclined to agree that we won’t win the league this season to be fair.
November 8th, 2008 at 17:53
@ Craig MC- ya but if we draw a good attacking team with our defense what it is atm we could be out early.. i hope i’m wrong
carlos queiroz needs to get the sack.. so we can bring him back then and our tactics problem will be solved…
Has anyone picked up a pattern i know its not a trophy-less season yet but if it were to end that way for us— i think i’m right in saying every time carlos leaves we end up in a trophy-less season or a poor league
performance and the carling cup
November 8th, 2008 at 17:56
@curtis: CQ has only left once before and we ended up with only the FA Cup that year. Although we were in handy enough nick in the league that season until Ferdinand got his missed drugs test ban.
November 8th, 2008 at 18:03
@ JB – oh i think you’re right my mistake— but the point i’m making is we need him back- tactically he is great and thus complements SAF well i thought last season we had a good managerial team.. we do miss him though
November 8th, 2008 at 18:07
@curtis: Agreed. I wasn’t the biggest fan of Phelan’s appointment (although I am willing to give him a chance now that he has the job). I would have liked to have seen someone come in from outside the club when CQ left to bring some new ideas and fresh perspective in.
November 8th, 2008 at 18:07
@curtis: I do agree with you Curtis, I would love to get a coach in at OT who is a tactical genius
. But at the end of the day the Manager still has to be the one to enforce what goes on once the players are on the field. Capello is very good at this as Beckham found out to his cost, and Rooney and Joe Cole to their benefit. If players do not do EXACTLY what Capello has told them to do, THEY ARE OUT. See I like that in a manager, because at the end of the day, he is answerable to his bosses for results. I believe Capello has proved he is a good manager wherever he has been, and we will see if this is transferred to England. Fergie seems to have mellowed. Has Fergie lost HIS hunger, who knows, but something is amiss. Like I said, I can’t quite put my finger on it. By the way, like Gabriel said, it is not that we lose a game that I get all heated about, but it is the way we have struggled in our games for a little too long since our double last year.
November 8th, 2008 at 18:09
@NicoQB: @Rd: @JB: I’m not targeting Park, he was among our worst players on the pitch today, despite him being rested for about two weeks. Yes, those ratings were unfair and emotional, but objectively, how did you guys rate our performance today?
We can all say it was OK and ignore the obvious shortcomings of the team, but that is not how I feel. I am one for looking on the bright side of things, but our dire performances have gone on for too long this season. This was an arsenal team low on confidence, without some of their best players and yet, we were outplayed, outmuscled and outclassed. We created few real chances, never really took control of the game and never showed that drive to win, early enough to take the game away from arsenal.
This has been a recurring theme this season and based on our performances, do you think if we come up against the likes of Barcelona and Juve we will be successful? I mean, we have gotten a total of 1 point from an available 9 points off the big four, that’s not champions material. We drew with Villareal at home and failed to capitalize on our dominance against Celtic.
I might sound a bit pissed off, well, that’s because I am. This team was supposed to develop, not regress. We are not performing as we should be and you all know it. You might say we are slow starters or we are crippled with injuries, but those are all excuses that losers(arsenal,chelsea etc) use when they fail. We should be prepared for these scenarios and as Fergie said, we are a young sqaud, now a year older, so should be developing. If you guys see any development in any aspect of our game this season, please let me know.
November 8th, 2008 at 18:10
@Mr.Muhozi: Ronaldo in Clichy’s pocket??? What game were you watching????
@Craig Mc: I dont blame Fergie much for making absurd decisions bro, happens in phases. Except one – Sitting Brown on the bench and getting Neville F****** starts in every F****** match possible. F****** lunacy!!! I don’t think I’ll be able to forgive him for screwing up the defense this season.
I am so f****** pissed off, i can’t rant enough!!!
November 8th, 2008 at 18:12
@Gabriel: Bro, I thought you had perhaps been at the whisky before making those ratings, but shit mate, you were serious
.
November 8th, 2008 at 18:13
@Craig MC- yup i too was not disappointed with loosing to arse and even pool for that matter. but what does get me
is the manner we lost these games… we haven’t had a performance to say WOW all season and this is very disappointing… we due a big result soon– glory glory manutd 
November 8th, 2008 at 18:14
@Rahul: Rahul Bro, you get the needle stuck on the Fucking word
. I know and understand where you are coming from though 
.
November 8th, 2008 at 18:14
Must control myself from going over to Manchester to kill neville.
I’m just gonna go and drink now till i pass out.
November 8th, 2008 at 18:16
@curtis: Glory, Glory Man United indeed Curtis, win or lose Bro. Keep the red flag flying here!.
November 8th, 2008 at 18:18
@Rahul:
. Awwwww, must try and remember in all this, how great Gary was for us for so many years. He must know when to retire and go out on top though.
November 8th, 2008 at 18:20
@Craig Mc: Bro I feel miserable. Can’t tell ya how much slack i got from Gooners calling me after the match.
November 8th, 2008 at 18:22
@Craig Mc: Hear Hear! Lets keep the faith. Its a marathon, not a sprint!!
November 8th, 2008 at 18:25
Hey JB, what a fantastic response to the RANT competition. I told Grog it would be an avalanche, and it sure is. All the RANTS are so feckin good, I can’t choose the winning rant. Anybody like to vote for who they think is the winner?
.
November 8th, 2008 at 18:26
@Craig Mc: I was on Cider mate
, but after that performance, the effects are long gone 
. I’m just tired of making excuses for our below-par performances Craig. I mean, like Curtis said, we haven’t had a complete performance all season where we dominated, scored plenty and had a clean sheet. That’s just not acceptable for a team planning on defending or acquiring more trophies.
We are supposed to be a better team overall, but if we as fans are honest, the team’s performances have regressed. It’s November now, and we can’t still be hiding behind the slow starters or injury veil. I don’t know what exactly is wrong, but i do know it is something both the manager and the players share, as they seem to be either oblivious or nonchalant about their performances this year.
November 8th, 2008 at 18:27
Our problem is:
1. Too many players playing RB and not enough consistent performances from either Rafael, Neville, or Brown. This leads to lack of match fitness.
2. Poor finishing from around the pitch. Rooney, Ronaldo, etc. are wasting chances galore!
3. Not enough games for our HUGE team to get match fitness – when Carling and FA cup are back this may change.
My week is ruined now and I have to wait until next week… SOOOO disappointed – now we are 5 pts behind the rest and it does not seem like we can actually beat them!
Argh!
Peace
November 8th, 2008 at 18:28
@Rahul: Feck the arsenal goaders Bro, what goes around comes around mate, you’ll be able to slug them back again in the return bout at Old Trafford. We will nail the feckers then
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November 8th, 2008 at 18:33
@Gabriel: I wouldn’t say anyone deserved below a 5 today, though it wasn’t a good game, and no i don’t think we were outmuscled and outclassed. We had some good moments in the 1st half and dominated the second half 60-40. This was probably the first away game I’ve seen us so dominant against a big 4 and we had more shots on goal.. The only thing was that we didn’t take our chances, we were too wasteful(story of our life so far this season) and the players didn’t look up for it besides Anderson, Rafael and maybe Vidic
November 8th, 2008 at 18:46
If i was fergie now i wud do a few things to save our season:
1- Start blooding the next generation of players into the side, foster in for vds, rafael for neville (brown still 1st choice, but rafa 2nd), possebon getting a couple of chances too.
2- Bring in another assistant. Whilst i cant see him getting rid of phelan he could bring in another assistant, 1 who is foreign and can work with the foreign contingent. The 1 name that appeals 2 me is gus poyet, hes available for free so lets get him.
3- More signings in jan needed. A defensive mid is needed, i cant stress this enough. Lets bring in gattuso if we can, if not then lassana diarra, palacios, senna or even marin will do.
I cant see us doing any of these things and thus i think we will end up trophyless, but i feel we need to start doing these things and soon. Your opinions.
November 8th, 2008 at 18:48
@Craig Mc: Gabriel’s player ratings or this @Will:
November 8th, 2008 at 18:51
without doubt todays result was purely down to Old man Fergie.
Decent starting team for once but once we went a goal down he has to put anai on for park. The arsenal team was severly weakend so there was no need to play the more defensive park.
Giggs for ANDO was a joke, although ando did look to be tireing in second half.
it just enrages me how he waits til the last possible moment to make a change! at 2 nil after 48 mins he needed to bring on tevez for the utterly abysmal berbatov to inject some guts into the performance.
Didnt see berbatov once ran in to space or advanced areas of the park, he merely passed the ball and stood still!!!
Unless we find a good coach to take over these team responsibilites were fucked coz fergie is clearly not up to it any more. its near enough been every game this season he’s been at this shit. Liverpool on day 1 was the worsst one for me, he single handedly ruinded the team!
Its awful hard to atake esp that when you dare speak against Ferie its worse than saying the Lords name in vain!!
November 8th, 2008 at 19:14
United have been giving way too many average(if not below par)performances this season .we have been inconsistent infront of the goal and defending is not the same standard as it was last season.Gary’s performances are lack lustre .After being back from injury his defending has been average and his crossing is woeful. Fergie should have started with Nani instead of park because Although park was good but Nani would have provided us with pace down the wings and his crossing is also very good.What has happened to Rooney ,at one point he plays like the best striker in the world and the other he seems to have lost his head.Fergie really needs to talk with rooney cause if rooney plays like this it’s really not going to help us.Ronaldo had an off game.Rafael played well and showed what a great potential he is for the future .Great goal by him.
November 8th, 2008 at 19:14
@JB: Yeah JB, your right, that is to close to call
. They both deserve credit!.
November 8th, 2008 at 19:19
@JB:
“I’d like to thank the manager, the players and especially Redrants, for whom without, my Rant would not have been possible…” 
Poor Park, he took the full grunt of my frustration. It’s just that he was rested for over two weeks, Nani was sacrificed for him and yet, he did nothing to justify his inclusion in the team. Like Groggy said, he is the ‘little engine that could’, and that’s not good enough man. He has talent but seems to prefer being a workhorse. Too many of our players do this and it affects their game negatively (especially in the final third).
Well, on to QPR this Tuesday, hopefully the reserves can show the ‘1st team’ players how to exercise some grit and drive into a football game.
November 8th, 2008 at 19:34
im sorry, but guys please, look at the game again, whenever ronaldo came one on one with clichy 9.8/10 times clichy would thwart ronaldo or force him to pass, i can not even remember when ronaldo had beaten clichy cleanly when the two went toe to toe.
the whole performance is terrible, and to me we certainly need another winger, really badly need another winger if nani is not chosen to play in these games. who that winger is, ill let you guys decide.
what makes this game even harsher to swallow was the fact the ref was favouring us a bit, he made a lot of dumb decisions that even i had trouble defending such as the carrick on diaby.
i can not wait to see danny welbeck in action mid-week, should be interesting to see him play, i wonder what midfield will be fielded on the night tevez up front with welbeck should be good
November 8th, 2008 at 19:37
why has fergie completely snubbed the strike partnership that won us the double last year?
why has he refused to play them together this season?
its belwildering..
Fergie is fuckin with the players moral as far as i can see, i mean wazza is obv frustrated he cantget that 100th goal so why take him off when berba did absolutely nothing?
its berbatov that needs a kick up the arse not wazz!?
Tevez has gon from being our inform striker begining of the season then fergie dropped him for over a month,now he looks gash with no confidence!
i reckon any good coach would do better with squad we have…..Rijkard is available.
Other alternative (less contraversial) we could just get a bloody good coach!
whatever, we better do something quick coz the signs are there for al to see
November 8th, 2008 at 20:39
comingto onto this game we were top of the form chart. 1 loss and it’s all doom all doom and gloom. Somebody actually said the season is over and we should blood the youngsters, Jesus Christ get a hold of yourself.
November 8th, 2008 at 20:43
@Mr.Muhozi: Last i heard he was injured, is he fit now?
November 8th, 2008 at 20:46
I honestly didn’t think we had a bad game. It wasn’t a great game, but we created many chances. Their 1st goal was a bit lucky, but they had a good game too. It honestly could have gone anyway and I just hope that our strikers would find their shooting boots soon. Is the title challenge over? I honestly don’t think so, it will be hard but the next couple of months will show us. I understand that they didn’t have some of their stars and we should have spanked them, but this kind og games are very unpredictable. Just wanted to tell everyone to keep their heads up.
November 8th, 2008 at 20:57
RR , Ive always thought that you were the most stable guy around here, your rants arent really well, unstable. They are very balanced and also reassure. I would like a match report from you, real bad. I ve been following United for the past 7 years, so I am an amateur when compared to the Grog and others in here.For someone like me, your posts are reassuring.
Everyone here knows one thing, that things are getting out of hand. ne thing that I observed today and in the Celtic game was that we werent able to break their defence, both of theirs. When we were, we couldnt finish. We have better strikers than both of them. Still we lost one miserably, drew the other, just about. Why isnt Fergie able to see what we are all able to? Doesnt smeone tell himt that his subs were shite, tactically? I mean, this is not the be all and end all, but surely, I have never been more frustrated than this, because I know that this is the same team which has steamrolled stronger teams than the one Arsenal fielded tonight. So what say you?
November 8th, 2008 at 20:58
@Gabriel: I am going to the QPR match (general sale tickets)amd I hope to see our young ‘uns play well. Im looking forward to seeing Manucho live, i think he has great promise.
Heads Up people!! Look forward to the 30th!!
November 8th, 2008 at 21:10
I’ve taken my sweet ass time to respond to this loss because frankly, I needed time to call off. My rage was at such a peak I had to cool off for my health first. Where do I start analyzing what has to be the worst United performance against a big four team in the past 4 years. I’m not kidding. Oh they may have lost a game or two in that time by more goals to an opponent but trust me, they have never played as poorly and as uninspired as they did today. If you go back a few days and go back and read my long post I actually predicted this game perfectly and the score of 2-1 to boot. I also was positive that Neville and Park would start.
So today I am going to hand out my new special award for players who in particular upped their incompetence and played like total tossers. I call it the WOG Awards. It stands for “Wrath of Grognard”. And a few of the guys a re going to really get it.
WOG #1 Gary Neville. Stick a fork in him because he is done like dinner. Forget about it, Nevi is finished. How many times does Samir Nasri have to make you out to be a fool in one game Gary? If it wasn’t the numerous runs and easy crosses you let him get in that caused us fits, it’s your terrible marking that allowed him to get more center and score two goals of which one was deflected off of of you. That has to be one of the worst performances Neville has ever given. And to think some of you blokes questioned me over what i thought of Rafael’s performance on Wednesday. At no time did he give opponents that kind of room to cross and to cause havoc. The goal was a quick counter where he was caught but other than that his performance was far superior to what our skipper offered up this day. Get rid of him. Force him to retire or sell him in January. Truthfully and honestly, I have never been a great fan of his and I have always found him wanting defensively. Now that he has clearly lost two steps, it shows even more. He’s rubbish. And for God’s sake Fergie, take the captaincy away from him and finally give it to Rio so that a true motivator on the pitch is allowed to do a little bit more screaming and leading of the troops.
WOG #2 Alex Ferguson. OK so this may be looked upon as blasphemy but this team has lacked proper motivation, desire and they eye of the tiger all season long. We also have played a poor brand of attacking football and certainly not the United way of play strategically or tactically. i am seriously getting tired of our slow buildup, our lack of pressing other teams defensively like they press us, Our inability to break down defense with stronger tactical schemes instead of the same old bag of tricks every fucking game. We are predictable as hell tactically and add to that that our lineups are built to lose says it all. I bloody well knew Neville was going to start but I also knew we would throw our midfield and wide attack into the crapper by starting Park. Especially on the left side so that Ronaldo couldn’t even have Evra to collaborate with.
Where was the team’s hunger and confidence. They played like scared monkeys. So fucking cautious and yet Arsenal kept ripping us open or delivering tempting crosses all game despite our cautious approach up until we went down 2-0. And even then, we stunk offensively. How many really clear cut chances did we get? Rafael scores a consolation goal and we have a chance with 6 minutes of extra time and we never even had a sniff at a tying goal. Fergie needs to wake up and then wake the troops up.
WOG #3 Rio & Vidic. Yes the Dynamic Duo have been sleep walking for a few games now. They have given up our domination of the aerial game in our box and have allowed far too many teams to get headers or to get onto to balls and take shots far too often for my liking. If Bendtner had any finishing in him today he could have had a few goals because the pair gifted him enough quality chances. Our defense is leaking badly and we need to address this. Add to that the fact that EVDS can’t seem to make a difficult save to save our asses makes things very difficult. My God it was Arsenal who had the useless Almunia in goal and we never threatened him.
WOG #5 Anderson. Yes Anderson who is constantly never where he needs to be when Arsenal have the ball deep in our zone and the same Anderson who never seems to be in an advantageous position when we are in the opponents box. This player often shows no positional sense but he has really struggled in his marking duties by allowing midfielders like Fabregas to deliver easy passes into the path of Nasri for the second goal. As badly played as that goal was by Rio, both Anderson and Carrick were nowhere in sight and had poor coverage of the middle of that area. The second Nasri goal was the nail in our coffin and it has to be one of the worst goals we have given up in years. Our defense on that goal looked like a bottom of the Coca Cola League version. I feel embarrassed and ashamed that we have fallen to this kind of shite.
WOG #6 JS Park. Honestly please somebody tell me why this little wanker is on the pitch or for that matter why he is on this team. I have never been a fan of the lad and it’s simple really, he has no ability. He works his ass off but has no skill on the ball, no finishing ability unless he has an open goal like against Chelsea and he just doesn’t offer this team the dynamic and offensive substance that we need from a LMF or LW. And to team him on the left side with Evra when he is right footed and uncomfortable at best, when he is a poor crosser with his good foot and you then utilize him on his wrong side?????? The lad is a decent footballer who should play for a bottom ten side. He is not (I repeat NOT) good enough to play for Manchester United. What is Fergie thinking?
WOG #7 Patrice Evra. Many may be surprised but I have noticed that this lad cannot get a good ball into our strikers if his life depended on it. Also, his marking at times has been suspect. Clumsy fouls and then to top it all off, he always coughs up the ball with a bad touch when we most need it late in games. I love the player but his form hasn’t been good this season and I am honest enough to stand up and admit it.
So what now? This team has dug itself a massive hole like I predicted before the season. It’s not all their fault. I said all along while many disagreed with me that this first half schedule was so stacked against us, I knew we would be 8 to 10 points behind the leaders by the end of Christmas. Too many tough opponents on the road and many of them on a week after a Champions League game. The League really tried their best to fuck us over real good and they have. It wouldn’t be so bad if we were trailing one team like we were last year but now we are trailing two. To expect two teams to come back to the pack is asking a lot. And Arsenal today has got to feel invigorated and alive. This game will do wonders for their confidence while ours on the other hand, has got to be at an all time low with this current squad.
Sorry for the negativity folks but I am honest and I call it as I see it.
To leave on a positive note today in bloody well impossible had it not been for the play and beautiful goal of Rafael da Silva. It’s time to bloody this kid properly and just start him game after game. I’m sorry but defensively he’s not worse than that old man Neville. Sure he may be caught out of position attacking a bit too much but Neville just gets beat regardless of being out of position or not. Think about it. It’s time for some radical thinking and it’s time Fergie takes the hair dryer to some players and to himself mostly. This season he has done a poor job motivating the players, getting them fit for the season and tactically he has been inept. My God I miss Carlos Queiroz.
November 8th, 2008 at 21:15
@edi: I wish I was living in or around Manchester, I wouldn’t miss a United game. About the QPR game, I have the distinct feeling Fergie wouldn’t play Manucho, but Tevez and Rooney. We won’t see as many youngsters as we expect. I expect the team to be as such:
Foster
Rafael Vidic Evans O’shea
Park Rodrigo Anderson Nani
Tevez Rooney
He will rest Ronaldo, Rio, Berba and maybe Evra. Carrick will definitely come on later, as will Gibson and maybe Manucho. We don’t have any young wingers in the reserves or academy?? I’ve been bangin about this for ages now, all we have is Ronaldo and Nani, as Park has decided to neglect his wing duties and become the poster boy for ‘hardwork with no end product’.
Ah, Man shitty!! That should be an interesting game and it’s away… that’s quite convenient you know, as by the end of this year we’ll have played the toughest teams away. The second half of the season should be a breeze.
November 8th, 2008 at 21:28
I cant say that I wasnt entertained today, just hate that the result didnt go my way. Thusly, this will probably be the longest post I ever make on here.
I say this with the utmost respect, but anyone defending SAF for today is an idiot.
I wont blame him for starting Neville because he was really the only option with Wes injured, but I am of the belief that Rafael is ready to challenge Wes for #1. But Neville is past it and is 3rd choice and that isnt hard to see
He made several bad decisions in my eyes
1) Park over Nani – Hard work, 3 lungs, yaddayaddayadda, all of that doesnt mean much to me. Park is a winger with limited pace and lacks the ability to beat his man. Its not often that you’ll hear me say this about one of our players, but Park is not United quality. Simple as that. Nani’s decision making will get better when SAF has the good sense to let him play. Nani should ALWAYS be top choice over him because he simply offers more of a cutting edge, but which wing will he play on? That brings me to question #2
2) Ronaldo on the left. This is more for playing against teams like Chelsea and Arsenal with world class left backs that are used to playing against Ronaldo. Plus, playing with Evra behind him provides him much more defensive cover.
3) Berbatov over Tevez. I’m one of the more vocal Tevez supporters, so hell yeah I’m biased. But I am right. We got Berbatov mainly for the CL if you ask me. I dont understand what SAF is seeing out there, but it’s plain to see that Berbatov isnt working right now. And when something doesnt work, you go back to what you know works. It is imperative that Berbatov sees the bench for a little while. He has absolutely no work ethic and is a ghost in games until he gets a goal. Fergie has absolutely killed Tevez confidence. If he wants Tevez to stay like he says he does, then actions speak louder than words. And from his actions he couldnt give a flying fuck about Tevez. And if he’s so bent on playing Berbatov then the view needs to shift toward Rooney, his epic goalscoring form has gone the way of the dinosaur. I just do not understand leaving a world class striker like Tevez on the bench. And dont get me started with what I feel is his negative effect on how Ronaldo plays.
4) The substitutions. At the half, the logical mind would’ve said Nani for Park at 60 or so and then Tevez for Berbatov a little while after. When Nasri scored his 2nd goal, SAF should’ve had Tevez and Nani prepping to go then. When Giggs came on and it was Rooney who went off instead of the idling Berbatov, I had to take a little walk because I was livid.
5) The old guard. VDS is past it, Neville is past it, and Giggs shouldnt be playing in games like this. Simple as that. If he’s going to phase them out, then he needs to stop tiptoeing around it and give Foster/PIG, Rafael and Nani the games.
I dont want to say that our struggles this year all boil down on Quieroz departure, but it’s hard to argue with what you see. I feel like we have regressed big time this season. I’m not too concerned about the league because that isnt the first priority this year. But these things do not bode well for the CL.
Obviously the players share the blame for the struggles so far. Apart from Ronaldo, Carrick, Rafael and Anderson, they all left something to be desired today. The rest are in my crosshairs for criticism.
We have relegation fodder Stoke at home next week. They are going to bully us around the pitch, but this game is a good one for some of our younger players, therefore I want the following lineup (obv depending on who’s fit):
Foster/PIG, Wes/Rafael, Vidic, Rio, Evra, Carrick/Fletcher/O’Shea, Anderson, Nani, Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez
Rant over. LOL, i sound like a Spark Notes version of Groggy
November 8th, 2008 at 21:31
Grognard glad ur back mate i just wanted ur opinion on a few things cos u seem 2 know the most on here, no disrespect 2 every1 else.
Anyway i was just saying that i feel fergie needs 2 do the following things to save our season.
1- blood the youngsters, foster to 1st choice, rafael and possebon getting more games too
2- get in gus poyet as a assistant, phelan may be decent with the english lads but i cant see him doing the good work quieroz did with the likes of nani, anderson and ronaldo can u? plus poyet is out of a job so wud definitely join
3- make some moves in jan. Grog, dunno if u watch italian footie but do u know if flamini is getting regular footie or is flamini and ambrosini ahead of him. Despite his age he wud be quality.
So grog what u think?
November 8th, 2008 at 21:32
sorry meant do u know if gattuso is getting games
November 8th, 2008 at 21:38
@Grognard:
Groggy, that post was hilarious!! ‘WOG’ 
That should be our standard award for players who under-perform after every game. I thought I was the only one that saw this total lack of motivation and eye of the tiger in the team so far this season. Fergie and the players need to wake up to this. Personally, I feel it’s part of the assistant’s job to keep the manager on his game and Mike Phelan just doesn’t seem the type(I hope I’m wrong).
Don’t get me started about Park and this rubbish ‘Blue collar’ nonsense. For Pete’s sake, he’s a winger, not a Defensive mid playing on the wings. He’s being mishandled and it’s cost him the talents he once had and displayed for us. I mean, if the question was asked, ‘What are Park’s qualities?’, what would you say? He is a hard worker??? He has lost every skill he possessed that qualified him as a competent winger, and for what, so he could run around and ‘work hard’ for the team. If we had a consistent, injury free defensive mid, all this blue collar rubbish amongst our attacking players will not be needed.
November 8th, 2008 at 21:47
@Gabriel: That will be the hope my friend. I actually live in Liverpool. I know, shame.
@Grognard: Took the words out of my mouth. sometimes i believe u should be in charge
November 8th, 2008 at 21:50
@Grognard: Good post, its actually not that negative, definitely not the worst I’ve seen from you, quite refreshing post and for the first time I agree with most, not all. Though I don’t know if Queiroz would help, the players don’t look up for it, even with the tactics and all.
November 8th, 2008 at 22:06
@Grognard, I understand you’re upset, and you have the right to be. Just like you have the right to be upset with whichever player you want. But, a WOG for Anderson and no mention of Berbatov, or even Rooney? I am one of the biggest Rooney supporters and even I must admit his performance today was woefull. To me, it’s a toss between him and Berba for WOG#3.
As I mentioned as response to another post, our defensive problems are just a symptom of a bigger underlying problem. Think about it, we have the same defenders as last season (when we were hailed as the best defensive team in Europe), yet we’re performing much worse defensively than last season. Our Carrick/Hargreaves/Scholes injuries hit us last season as well, yet we coped. Buying anyone won’t solve the problem. Our tactics is the problem.
November 8th, 2008 at 22:10
@Groggy : I dont understand what Rooney and Berba did that made you pick Andy and Park instead of them into that “WOG” list??..Rooney missed 3 sitters…Berba dint had a shot on goal or a header away…Actually he tried to bring a high ball down in his own box (school boys know that it is nonsense) …That guy is not ready for big games…not yet..Andy was pretty good in the first half while Park worked hard to pop up at right places more often than not..
As a player myself i should say in Rooney and Berba we had a blunt attack today and Carrick was not upto his usual self….On a whole bird eye level…our real problem lies that our defense n GK is getting more and more exposed and that is due to the absence of some one like Hargreaves…i agree with you there…
Fergie completely got his tactics wrong this time around…no regrets saying that..
November 8th, 2008 at 22:14
oh my god! Are we really 5 whole points behind the leaders?! Some people need to take a chill pill. Its weird that when we were 5 points behind 2 weeks ago there was nobody saying how bad Fergie is. We need to improve and giving Stoke a pasteing next week will go a long way to getting our confidence back up. People are talking about giving up our season because we are 5 points behind. Our only losses this season have been against perrennial CL quarter/semi finalists so we haven’t done horribly bad. All the other big teams have more hard games to play than us so the title race isnt over because we lost 1 game. I’ve laughed my head off at some of the comments made here today.
For the record I know we played shit today and a big improvement is needed but no need for an apocalypse
November 8th, 2008 at 22:23
@Liam: I don’t have a problem being 5 points behind the leaders. The problem is that as someone mentioned earlier, we have not had one game this season that we can say “wow” and will actually give a person belief that we can win the league this season. To me, it is our performance that is woefull and this feeling that I get (which I did not get for the past 2 seasons when we started “slowly”) that we will end up empty-handed. You mentioned we played shit today, we also played shit almost every game so far. THAT is the problem. To be honest, I won’t even mind ending up empty-handed, but at least play like champions.
November 8th, 2008 at 22:26
@Grognard: Nice rant but your Spark Notes version of me ended when you started bashing Berbatov and sided with Tevez. Come on mate, honestly can’t you see all the great things Berbatov does out there on the pitch. He’s not about just scoring goals. He creates chances with his presence and he sets up as many if not more than he scores.
Having said that, today was not one of his better games but in defense of him yet again, he got zero service when inside the box. Carlos Tevez is the last thing I need in the starting lineup. This team needs players who love and live to prowl in the box. Tevez believes he is playing well when he is 50 yards away from the box. Tevez is history, he’s gone. Get used to it as he will not be with this team next season. Hell if we actually owned his rights he may have been gone by this January. This team needs a forward who can come into a game late and offer up a few chances on goal. Another Ole Gunnar Solksjaer is not easy to find but we need to try.
Our real problem right now is that we are playing a 4-3-3 and our midfielders are just not good enough as a unit. It may require Fergie to reassess our future with the present midfielders that we have. Scholes; over the hill, Hargo; probably done, Anderson; regressing badly, Nani; regressing even worse than Anderson; Park; bloody useless. The only two members of the midfield right now that are playing and contributing in a positive manner is Carrick and Fletcher. And lets face it, as good as they have been, they aren’t exactly scaring the Hell out of the Big Three, Barcelona, Bayern or any other of Europe’s elite.
As a team we are now starting to pay terribly for our predictability and dependence on one Cristiano Ronaldo. Today Ronaldo had a so so game but the problem was there was nobody else who was able to pick up the slack for him. Even Rooney was comatose. We are badly in need of another wide midfielder like Samir Nasri who can take the pressure off of Ronaldo. We also need an attacking midfielder who can figure out ways to penetrate opponents defenses. Carrick has learned to play the game more like DMF. He plays very far back and although he is capable of a great pass and occasional shot, he has really become for us what Hargo was bought for.
Where is a Fabregas, Ballack, Lampard, Deco, Gerrard, Xavi type player managing our midfield when we need one.
It’s time somebody had the guts to say this because so many are just drowning with so much optimism that it’s nauseating to someone who is as pragmatic and realistic as myself. Giggs, Scholes and Neville are holding this team back and must retire. Secondly, Anderson, Park and Tevez have to go. They are not good enough for this team as starters. Nani has to be given a chance similar to the one given Ronaldo when he showed up. Play him often and enough so that he gains the experience on the pitch and not the training ground. Anyone with eyes can see his problem is not lack of talent, it’s confusion and lack of confidence and for this I blame Fergie. Rafael must be made the everyday starter a RB. I don’t care if he has issues with defending, with time and experience he will learn the very same way Evra was given the chance and the games to learn when he showed up with the same problems. The Twins are our future at RB and LB. If Rafael is ahead of Fabio it’s because he has less in front of him to worry about. Brown clearly has lost the confidence of Fergie and Neville????? Well lets just say Gary Neville is currently playing like shit (the North American version of the word shit which means human fecies, not the new slang version which means fucking great). It’s time to give Possebon and even Manucho or Welbeck some playing time. Why not? Who’s playing so well as to hold them back?
My friends, I am going out on a limb this early in the season and I will say due to our current problems both on and off the pitch, this team WILL NOT repeat as champions of the EPL. I am not ruling out the Champions League out yet but I somehow don’t see how we are better than Barcelona and Bayern. I also fear Roma, Chelsea, Juventus and Liverpool in that competition. In the EPL our form has been terrible. It’s bad enough we are a mass of confusion offensively but our defense has sprung several leaks. We lack pace, intensity, fitness for 90 minutes, focus and above all finishing. Sure all these problems may be solved and a cure of our ills is certainly possible but I do not see us catching two possibly three teams in the race for the EPL. When Chelsea plays poorly on the road or at home they usually manage a point. When we do, it’s a loss. Last year we claimed 13 of a possible 18 points against the Big Three. This year we have claimed 1 of a possible 9 points. Yes they have all been road games but last year we claimed 4 points on the road out of 3 games. For me this is a clear regression. We did not deserve to win at Liverpool or Arsenal and we didn’t. We deserved a win at Stamford Bridge but we broke down defensively and allowed them to steal a point. Bloody well unacceptable.
Clearly the team has lost it’s hunger and desire. They have lost their mojo (for lack of a better term). What’s worse is that Fergie has yet to find an answer to our ills. He seems lifeless on the sidelines and he seems as confused and indifferent as do his players. What has Mike Phelan offered this team up to now? Sweet fucking nothing. Man Utd is in a world of hurt and it could get worse before it gets better. Berbatov is not to blame but even he hasn’t lit us up with goals and intensity. He gets no service at all and our play making has gone missing all season.
Defensively we look slow, and lacking focus. Our keepers are all asleep at the wheel. I mean can it get much worse than this. I feel like a Reading supporter for crying out loud. It’s totally unacceptable. It’s time to stop thinking like the old establishment Conservatives and start thinking like Obama. We need CHANGE and patience to let it fall into place. Forget the season. Play for the Champions League spot and forge the season. We need to play our youngsters and we need to rebuild a bit. FERGIE, You have some explaining to do. And it better be damn good too.
November 8th, 2008 at 22:28
@Matthew: Interesting mate. Read my rant #228. I think it answers your questions quite well.
November 8th, 2008 at 22:30
@Gabriel: I totally agree with you mate, But I don’t think Park was ever really good enough to play for us. Being a star for PSV is equal to being a star for Stoke in my books. But I get your point and I do agree.
November 8th, 2008 at 22:31
@edi: At the risk of not showing humility and knowing my place, I couldn’t agree more.
November 8th, 2008 at 22:41
@Karl: A couple of things. Rooney and Berba did not play well but let s have a better look at things. Do you remember them ever receiving any proper service anywhere near the box that would allow them to utilize their skills and force a breakthrough? Our service to them has been total amateur hour. They are forwards and they are not getting enough chances to score in a game against teams that play a press on our midfielders. A midfielder or defender gets the ball the first thing they do is look for Ronaldo. Our whole fucking mantra is to look for Ronaldo and hope he bails us out of everything. We are too one dimensional and we don’t do basic fundamentals like high and low crosses into the box well enough. In the attacking third we rarely work an accurate and well timed 1,2 give and go. We are rubbish with no intensity, drive, and really poor focus. When was the last time you saw one of our central mdfielders probe and deliver an defense cracking throughball? And our counter attacking is in slow motion as well.
Berba may seem slow and lazt but that’s just his style of play. The other problem is he is adapting to his teammates but his teammates are not adapting quickly enough to him. As far as our defensive problems I blame that on Gary Neville, EVDS and poor defensive play by Patrice Evra. Yes Evra has been poor this year but not as poor as Neville. And EVDS seems slow to react on all shots. Have a look at the penalty he gave up last week. That ball was on it’s way before he even reacted. Bloody awful!
November 8th, 2008 at 22:42
@Gabriel: The 2nd half of the season should be a breeze!. Not if Hull City is anything to go by
.
November 8th, 2008 at 22:43
@Liam: It’s eight points now mate. It’s time to take an aspirin, not a chill pill.
November 8th, 2008 at 22:45
Yeah Grognard, the best (“young”) team in Europe now needs a complete makeover. That is exactly what I mean. It is not the players, it is the tactics of our management.
This is exactly what the aquisition of Mr. Berbatov did to our team. I know I’m always on his case, but it is because of exactly this. It is not Berbatov’s fault really. He is a brilliant player. It is the deployment of Berbatov that is hurting our team. We lost our movement, our players lost their confidence (including Ronaldo – which I also warned of during the off-season) and our team lost their composure. We have adapted a style to suit Berbatov, and our team is battling to adapt to it. If you don’t believe me, check all our latest games, and see how many times Ronaldo have actually crossed the ball. Something which was unheard of in previous seasons.
It will eventually come right, but I doubt this season, and, as you realised, definitely with the loss of some “key” players.
November 8th, 2008 at 22:48
@Craig Mc: It might not be a breez if we are under pressure to chase down the leaders. No room for errors now and I just know we will still lose 2 or 3 more games and draw another 4 or 5. This race may already be over because we don’t have what we need to stop the bleeding. Our midfield is bloody killing us mate. It’s time to build for next year and with some luck we still might be around for a first place run. Right now we need to bleed Foster, Rafael, Evans, Possebon and Manucho. They need to play so we know exactly what we have and what we need to buy both this January and next Summer. Pragmatism over delusions of grandeur must rule the day. I just don’t see this team as being all that good I’m afraid to say. They remind me of the team from 4 or 5 years ago that finished 4th. Lack of desire and stubborn to change and adapt.
November 8th, 2008 at 22:49
I am embarrased. Not only about my behavior, but that is mainly because I got over exited. I just cant stand the Arsenal fans at my school so I just got too ahead of myself. I need to calm down dammit!
I am feeling really depressed cause I really felt that this was gonna be our day and I was just to eager. That is what you get for punching an Arsenal fan in the face. “I may seem alone, but I am not!” A great man once said. I hope I can follow that example. The weeks(s) before United face Arsenal I really get some stick. Every classmate, every “mate” 
and practically everyone in my neighbourhood. It sucks! 
And when people manange to anger you with stuff that you cant protect against, then the only thing that I can say is “we will see”. But why do I always feel that makes me sound weak? Why do I have to say: “we will beat you” or “your kids cant win the Prem in a million years”. I want to apologise to every Arsenal fan for my behavior. And I will promise everyone that I will not act like Ive done, I will try to control myself.
November 8th, 2008 at 22:50
@Grognard, “Do you remember them ever receiving any proper service anywhere near the box that would allow them to utilize their skills and force a breakthrough?”
Actually I can recall a few of them…inside the box.
The problem with Berba is not that he is adapting to the players around him, but rather the other way around. That IMO is what is slowing down our attacking and nullifies our counter-attacking. That is also why he always plays for 90mins. Our teamplay is now being focussed around him. (Tactics)
November 8th, 2008 at 22:53
@Grognard:
Groggy mate, I don’t mean to come across as a fanboy, but ur posts have me in stitches 
the satire is priceless… “Gary Neville. Stick a fork in him because he is done like dinner” …. “What has Mike Phelan offered this team up to now? Sweet fucking nothing” 
priceless….
On a serious note though, you do raise some good points, and I being one of the optimists can’t help but realize that the team is regressing. Yes, we’ve had a tough schedule and are only 8 points behind the scousers(with a game in hand), but it’s pretty obvious something is missing and our performances are a reflection of this. If we don’t address this now, it might be too late come January. I’m not suggesting a major adjustment in personnel, No, but a major adjustment in attitude and mentality. After all, they are the same players who won the double last year and the prem the year before, aren’t they?
November 8th, 2008 at 22:55
@Karl: I honestly don’t believe that. If they totally changed for Berbatov then why isn’t he getting the ball fed into him more often? No, they were having problems in the games before he showed up. This team has a one dimensional approach to the game and it is negative. For all out offensive skill players, I find we are far too occupied worrying about the other team’s players when they should be more concerned with us. We are being out coached and intimidated. We should be showing our skill and confidence instead of putting out defensive lineups with useless players like park and Neville. What happened to being cocky and confident. I’d rather go on the road and lose 4-3 than lose 1-0. Today we could easily have lost 3-1 or 4-1. We were that bad and we were that devoid of intensity, focus and above all, ideas. I’m totally disgusted. Somebody needs to be screaming some profanities in that dressing room.
November 8th, 2008 at 23:01
Watch all our games again and you will see.
November 8th, 2008 at 23:03
Okey, now thats finished! On to the game.
That is not a winner team like. I want us to buy Silva, he may have rejected us in the summer but he cant say no again. Can he? 
Rooney is getting chances, but he is still not deadly. I will admit that on every other day he would have scored at least one goal from the chances he had. BUt today nothin went our way. It just didnt…. 
I see many faults in Uniteds team. Our back 5 seem to have lost all the confidence, or work rate, that they had last season. VDS does many mistakes and doesnt seem to be the keeper he once was. Rio has lost some speed and is not working well with Vidic anymore. Those two dont look like the solid partnership they once were. I wonder what has happend. Can it be that we lack continuity on the right back, the keeper is not giving them enough orders or could it be the horrible fortune of complacency? Edwin, Rio and Nemanje look nervous most of the time. We need a new keeper and we need the right back spot to be solid. We cant change the right back every game, we need to same one to play 5-6 games in a row every time.
Left midfield. I realised this today. Our team has its biggest weakness on the left midfield. We got caught out lots of times on our left flank. Park is all over the place, but when Evra attacks we have no cover. We must buy a LM/LW in January or the summer. David Silva, Alanzinho, Podolski, even Marin if needed! We cant set for Park and Evra on one side and Rafael on Ronaldo on the other. Its not a winner team. I love Nani, but excpet for him and Ronaldo, Park is the only winger.
Striker. Okey, Berbatov is not the player I thought he was. It was 96 minutes played today and united had over 20 shots on goal. Berba had only 1 and that was offside. From a £30 million striker that is terrible. Berba is more of a CF, something we have enough of already. I dont want a poacher, but I want a player that can score a goal and when crosses come into the box, he will position him where he can attack the ball. What is the point of having a tall stiker if he is going to stand on the edge of the 18-yard box when there is a cross coming? Manucho, Benzema, Zaki… I would take any of those right now!
So, Rafael and Anderson are showing that they are United quality. Gorg, I dont know what you meant about Andy having a bad game. He positioned himself well when Arsenal countered and were 4 vs 2. He cleared the ball for a corner. And in the first half he owned Fabregas and was our best player. Just dont know why Fergie took him off for Giggs…
November 8th, 2008 at 23:05
@Craig Mc: Craig my man, that’s the optimist in me talking. The more I think about our sub-par performances so far this season, the more depressed I get, so I just try to look at the bright side of things.
However, I do think we will gather more points than the rest of the Big four in the 2nd half of the season. We just have to try and stay within touching distance till then.
Hopefully, the World Club cup doesn’t put a spanner in the works 
November 8th, 2008 at 23:07
We need to have a regular team. I hope Fergie sees the teams obvious weaknesses and plays this team more often:
Foster
Rafael Rio Vidic Evra
Ronaldo Carrick Anderson Nani(hopefully replaced with Silva come January)
Rooney Berbatov
Berba needs to start acting like a striker. And Fergie needs to find out who our right back is. If not, then we might be in serious trouble here…
November 8th, 2008 at 23:09
Grognard some of ur comments r brilliant and i agree completely. After watching this game i have come 2 the conclusion that thats it for this year. Controversial yeah but we havent looked up 4 it this year since day 1 against newcastle. I personally feel vds and neville are finished and foster shud definitely be 1st choice from now on. Rafael i dunno about 1st team but it shud defo be out of him and wes for the rb spot. As for evans, what a talent he looks and again he shud be getting at leasr 30 games this year cos he will not disappoint. Possebon, manucho and wellbeck shud also get some games but i doubt they will as fergie can be so stubborn. Also tell me y he packs the bench full of defenders, out of the 7 subs we r regularly having pig, nev, rafa (if brown is playing) o’shea and sometimes evans. I cant help but thinking against the likes of stoke next week manucho shud be on the bench and given a cameo for 20 mins. Its things like this that frustrate me but still. Also not bringing in poyet is just weird but thats us 4 u, we always do things the hard way.
November 8th, 2008 at 23:16
I tend to believe those who are saying that Gary Neville is done. As for Berbatov, I was rather happy with the buying but I was afraid what it would do to the chemistry of the strike force. It would seems my fears we founded. We needed a super sub, not a main striker. With the money invested in Berbatov we could have found a world-class lateral à la Philip Lahm and a super sub like Michael Owen for the same price.
I know I would rather have those two than Berbatov for the same price. Berbatov is not the sole responsable of the debacle that happened, of course. That would be dishonest. The lack of desire is also showing and the Arsenal clash was a good indication of that desire.
Even I hate to admit it, Chelsea shall win the Premiership.
November 8th, 2008 at 23:35
I called for Poyet the same hour he was fired. It’s so bloody obvious! That or for Quieroz to get fired or something and come back again…
November 8th, 2008 at 23:38
traverse, im glad im not the only 1 thinking about poyet. How come it was apparent that we wanted him when he was at spurs and now hes left we dont seem interested in him. Maybe we only like getting people in the club if it involves snatching them from spurs lol.
November 8th, 2008 at 23:49
Main problems today for me:
1. VDS – Clearly passed his sell by date and his poor judgement is effecting the confidence of our entire defense. And while we’re on the subject of defense, G Nev was atrocious today and has been since his return. Like Giggs, it’s a sad sight to see a sparkling career come to an end in this unflattering way.
2. Rooney – Missed far too many chances today which were uncharacteristic of him. Looking back, if he’d stuck even one of the several fantastic opportunities he had in the back of the net, the game would have been very very different. Arsenal had no choice but to score first if they wanted to make a game of it – Wayne had chances to eradicate this possibility and bottled it. Twice. Three times?
3. Howard Webb – Denied us 2 clear penalties and I personally feel that one Arsenal defender (can’t remember which now but I think Sanga) deserved to be sent off. It seemed the big decisions went against us once again.
All in all it was an unlucky result which on another day the score would have been reversed, but it is underlined by point number 1 which is to me by far the most concerning and something which needs fixing immediately.
On a positive note, we’ve played our 3 toughest games already and are only 5 points behind the leaders (if we win our game in hand). 5 little points. It doesn’t take much to close that gap – ask Arsenal themselves what happened last season…
If we can get within touching distance by Christmas then it’s ours for the taking, and even if we don’t then it’s not all doom and gloom. We’re still in a good position!
November 8th, 2008 at 23:52
Watching United over the last couple of seasons, a few things are really starting to annoy me.
1, SAF needs to get a settled midfield four and stick with them. If someone gets injured or needs a rest then change it or freshen it up as he says, but dont freshen it up just for the sake of it and absolutely do not play Giggs in the middle, hes rubbish in there. My four would be Carrick, Anderson, Nani and Ronaldo, start with this quartet and let them gel and build up an uderstanding, do not pull your plants back up out of the soil before they have had a chance to take root coz at the moment we look like a team of strangers and in my opinion SAF is to blame, his handling of Anderson and Nani is mind boggling for a man with his experience.
2, why do we sit so deep, especially against better quality teams, it only invites pressure and allows the opposing teams to dominate the midfield without even breaking sweat, its so obvious it borders on the ridiculous, SAF open your eyes, get the midfield 30 yards further up the pitch, get the defense a similar distance up and engage the enemy in thier half of the pitch, NOT OURS, they do it to us, can he not see it.
This never would have happened if Keano was in our team and its no coincidence that it has only stated to creep in after he left.
We still have a squad of fantastic players, but in my opinion we are like a champion race horse at the minute, capable of great things, but only as good as the jockey riding it.
Cmon Craig old mate, back me up here.
November 9th, 2008 at 0:07
@Jay: Despite my negative comments above, I do believe that you are right, if we can stay within striking distance until the new year, then I still think we have a great chance, but we arent half making life hard for ourselves and I would love to see SAF try to get Lassana Diarra in during the transfer window as I think he could be the next Makelele only better on the ball and would give our midfield a better balance.
November 9th, 2008 at 0:14
Fred the Red, we then u will love 2 c this then, assuming it is true
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1084172/Ferguson-targets-Diarra-cover-injured-Hargreaves.html
November 9th, 2008 at 0:24
@Matthew: hope we get him mate, I think he would definatley be a good addition that would allow our attacking players to do their stuff whilst providing a screen for the defense, we look a bit soft in there at the minute.
November 9th, 2008 at 0:58
I think maybe the best possibly solution for United to be even close to the “unbeatable” range, we have to face the facts.
1. Park, Neville and Kuzczack cant play for us.
2. Tevez needs to find his form.
3. We have to get Frazier Campbell back from loan as soon as possible.
4. Buy David Silva!
5. Make Anderson, Rafael and Foster usual starters in our team.
Frazier Campbell is the kind of striker we need right now. A player that wants to score goals, and who is never afraid of going on runs. I believe ge can become a United Legend(honestly) if given a chance. He is possibly the fastest player in the League, even faster than Walcott or Agbonlahor. He can finish from all sorts of poitions. He is a god header of the ball. And he, unlike Berbatov, goes on runs. If I can compare Frazier to anyone, it would be Etoo or possibly a Henry of 2002-2005. This guy is class and I hope he will return to our team. As long as our team is gonna play through passes and counter, Frazier will do wonders to our attack.
We need a left winger. Fuck Park, he is not a bad player, but he simply aint United quality. He works hard, but that is not the job of a winger. We should sell Park, buy David Silva and give one of the young guys a try. Martin, Welbeck, Fabio or even Galbraith! They would all be better back ups than Park. If United would use him as a CM then okey. But LM? Give me a break!
PIG is a good shot stopper. But his positioning and kicking is worse than…everyones! I would rather have Amos to be back up. From what Ive seen that guys is class. Im all for breeding players, and I like it when United use youth and give the young kids a chance. I could see United play a team like this in two years time:
Foster
Rafael Rio Evans Evra
Ronaldo Carrick Anderson Silva
Rooney Campbell
subs: Amos, Fabio, Vidic, Hagreaves, Nani, Tevez, Berbatov.
November 9th, 2008 at 1:30
This result has had me reflecting on our performances this season and also evaluating areas where I believe the team needs some adjustments. This is not a knee-jerk reaction, but something I’ve been pondering about for quite some time now.
Goal-keeping: VDS is a great keeper but has become far too inconsistent and it is beginning to cost us. We have two young and hungry keepers waiting in the wings, why doesn’t Fergie play them more frequently. I believe Foster or Kusczak are in better form than VDS right now, so I can’t really understand the hesitation from Fergie in playing them and establishing either as the heir to VDS.
Right-Back: Fergie’s tinkering at first was inspired; he was weaning Rafael into the squad, while giving Neville a chance at re-establishing his 1st team credentials. It has come back to bite us in the arse now as that chemistry which worked so well for us last season is lost and this tinkering played a part in this. We need to re-instate Brown as permanent 1st choice, with Rafael as a capable 2nd.
Central Midfield: We have a total of eight midfielders, yet, we can’t seem to establish a proper mix. The problem is that we do not have an attacking midfielder. We have plenty of defensive and central ones; Hargo, Fletch, O’shea, Carrick, Possebon, Scholes and Ando. However, we are without a midfielder who can control and pull the strings in the final third of the pitch. Ando is not this player and neither is Possebon, Carrick or Scholes anymore. Fergie tried to utilise Giggs there, but he’s not totally versed in this position and usually his contributions are more negative than positive in this position.
The thing is we got used to playing with two central players and it works, but we also need a player who can move forward and play make ala Deco, Fabregas etc for certain games. We have plenty central defenders who can also play holding roles; Fletch, Possebon, Carrick but no true attacking mid. If anything, that’s the position we need to look at. We might not even need to look past our reserves as I hear Cleverley is doing very well.
Wings: As of now, we have two official wingers, as Park has neglected his wing duties for ‘the good of the team’. This is unacceptable for a team of our magnitude. Ronaldo and Nani cannot be responsible for our wing play the whole season, they will burnout. This is a position that needs to be urgently addressed as we do not even have wingers in our reserves or academy. We need a young, pacy winger who can beat players, cross and get a shot on target.
Strikers: Berba, Rooney and Tevez are excellent players. Last season, the Roovez was an excellent partnership, but was one which was reliant on Ronaldo. This is why we bought Berba, and although he brings a lot to our game, he is not one for parking his arse in the penalty area or pushing back defenders. Tevez looks like the player that’s supposed to do this, but alas, he doesn’t too and neither does Rooney. This leaves me asking, why are we keeping three players who play similar positions? One of these strikers has to swallow his pride and stay up the pitch. There’s no point in having three strikers who all run away from the penalty area.
Either one of them does that or we need to acquire a goal hungry striker, capable of sharing the team’s creativity upfront but also capable of banging in goals for fun. Unfortunately, that would be at the expense of one of the previous three and looking at qualities offered to the team, Tevez will look to be the odd man out.
Assistant manager: This is a position that is calling for some fresh blood. Mike Phelan might be a loyal servant, but I haven’t seen any evidence of his tactical or motivational acumen influencing the team in any way. I’m all for getting the ol’ boys jobs in the backroom, but for crucial positions, such as this, we should only consider the best and Mike Phelan isn’t. Some people were calling for Poyet and I think he is an excellent choice for obvious reasons.
What do you guys think? It’s not a radical overhaul, but just little aspects of the team that need to be addressed. I say we need a winger, attacking mid, an ’in-and-around the penalty box’ clinical striker and a new ass-man. They might come from within our club, but these are the positions in which we currently lack appropriate cover/talent.
November 9th, 2008 at 1:53
you want to know why anderson as all of a sudden become a complete fuck up?…. its probably the same reason as manchuo not getting a game, or for that matter park being put ahead of nani…not to mention ronaldo’s lack of “je’ne’sa’que”". as well as tevez and rooney being kept at arms length from each other…
the answer? begins with C…..Q….. and ends in WHEN ARE YOU COMING BACK!
November 9th, 2008 at 3:12
just looking at the highlights again and although he had a bad game people saying that both goals were Neville’s fault are fools. Neither of them could be pinned on him. The first one was unlucky and a more agile keeper would have saved it. For the second goal he got turned by Fabregas who gave the ball to Nasri who, 18 yards out from our goal, had neither of our CBs near him. But then again Rio and Vidic are harder targets than Gary Neville.
GK problem, 2 words: Jussi Jaskelainen
November 9th, 2008 at 3:35
@Liam: Agree that gaz was not really at fault for the goals. People here have been lining up to pile the ir venom on him. And having no particular particularities except being fair at most things when he was at his peak, he was the ideal scapegoat.
Nonetheless it must be said that he looked stranded when Nasri was sending those caviar crosses that Bendtner failed to convert.
He had a poor game yesterday, but by no means a 2/10 performance, more like a 5/10…
November 9th, 2008 at 3:37
I don’t remember who said this but perhaps United’s training was indeed too physical. Look at Louis Saha!
November 9th, 2008 at 3:43
@Traverse: @Matthew:
Hm, I don’t know really.. What about his tactical ceredentials? Word goes that when Juande was manager, his job was limited to translating the boss’ order to players. So as soon as Juande was confident to talking to his players, he was left with little to do…
)
Does he really have tactical knowledge? Because more important than communicating with the latin players, is the need to get someone who can advise SAF tactically (and curb the trend to these horrible substitutions
November 9th, 2008 at 5:03
@RedDevilEddy: Mate, Berbatov is only as good as the service he get s from his teammates. If heonly had one chance I think the blame has to go to the group who seem to have a problem getting him the ball. When he does have the ball I see a player with skill vision and the ability to make things happen. Lets be fair. And as for Anderson, he wasn’t terrible today but overall he has been a severe disappointment and not what I want out there.
November 9th, 2008 at 5:09
@RedDevilEddy: Fuck this regular team thing. That’s old school thinking. No big team in Europe thinks like that anymore. You have half a dozen guys penciled in every game and the remaining four or five are up to the managers discretion. The seasons are long and grueling and rotation is necessary if you want to succeed. This isn’t FIFA 09 or Pro Evo Soccer. In real life players get tired, injured and wear down over a season. And you also have to platoon players depending on the team you are playing and what you want that position to do. So get over it. Nobody with any success does what you are advocating.
Sorry for that reality lesson but honest mate, it’s the truth. 
November 9th, 2008 at 5:12
@Traverse: OK seriously though, what is the big deal over Gus Poyet? Even I like him over the clown we have now but what has Gus Poyet done that is so impressive that he is the answer?
November 9th, 2008 at 5:31
@Gabriel:
Please tell me what those obvious reasons are. Did he just finish his tenure with Barcelona, Milan or Real Madrid? Did he manage a team like Porto, Ajax maybe or perhaps Shamrock Rovers even? NO NO NO! He has done fuck all but do some interpreting for Juande Ramos while the Spaniard was struggling with English. And that would be his main job here to, to talk it up with the Spanish speaking contingent.
The problem is that Fergie really doesn’t seem to know what he wants on the pitch so how can we know what his expectations are off of it? The team is a mishmash of different styles and cultures and what used to gel because of the tactical and strategic acumen of one Carlos Queiroz is not gelling right now. Fergie erred in making a quick decision of picking Phelan because at his age he wanted someone to do the dirty work that he has grown tired of. Problem is that the team has not responded to Phelan and I doubt they really have any respect for him from a tactical and technical point of view. Queiroz did the dirty work but he implemented a style and a mentality as well as an approach to the team’s play and their training that seems to be missing. How bad is Phelan? All you have to look at is the disorganization up front and at the back but noticeable for me is the team’s lack of hunger, desire and focus. They just don’t seem to care. They also seem a little scared on the ball. The pressure is starting to rear it’s ugly head. I would not be surprised if Phelan gets the axe before New Years. As for Fergie, he has a lot to answer for. The man is a God and he has brought so much to our team over the years but lets face it, we fans are a fickle lot and you are judged by the old adage “What have you done for us lately?”. Sweet fuck all I say. Get mad Fergie. If not with the team with us or the media but show some anger and some fucking passion. Light some kind of fire under that team. They need to care about something. Perhaps if they felt pissed off at us fans that you vs us mentality may be all that’s needed to fire them to victory. Just do something, bench somebody, scream at somebody, kick a show at somebody, whack somebody over the head with a hairdryer….JUST DO SOMETHING! Wake these motherfuckers up already. There is nothing I hate more than when great players underachieve. Right now Man Utd is an utter disgrace and I am feeling a little embarrassed as are many of the old guard who know better and who expect a lot more. I want players to play with the desire heart and attitude of Eric Cantona. If they can’t do that then they can piss off. Sorry for the anger everyone but I am one pissed off fan tonight. Losing is one thing, losing to a far inferior Arsenal is just not acceptable.
November 9th, 2008 at 5:34
@Grognard: I think your wrong baout anderson, he played excellent today. Your bias against him is clouding your judgment. Also why are you flip-flopping on Tevez? First Tevez was rubbish and couldnt hold Rooney jock strap. Then at the beggining og the season you concede that Tevez is the better player and that maybe it is time to cut our loses with Rooney and sell him. Now your back on the Rooney love train and Tevez is worthless again.
November 9th, 2008 at 5:35
@Will: Even if Carlos Queiroz gets fired by Portugal, he will not come back to Old Trafford unless it is as manager of the club. You can only come back to a club with your tail between your legs so many times before you are looked upon as weak and a bit insecure. CQ is a quality manager and he should be managing. So unless Fergie guarantees him the job, he ain’t coming back.
November 9th, 2008 at 5:37
@NicoQB: Louis Saha would injure himself walking into a slight wind. Forget about comparing him to anyone that ever gets injured for our club. He wasn’t Balsa Boy for nothing you know.
November 9th, 2008 at 5:41
“form is temporary, class is permanent” That seems to be a popular cliche on this board. I bring it up because I think it is selectively applied by some of you. Rooney had been Rubbish for a long while but then hit a rich vein of form(which he tends to do a lot) And people were quick to bring up the ridiculous comparison about him and Ronaldo. Conveniently forgetting that Ronaldo was a month ahead of schedule on his surgically repaired ankle. When are you people gonna learn that consistently performing at a high level over 2 years is not form, Its CLASS. Ronaldo oozes class, and I just dont understand why everyone is so quick to doubt him(especially United fans). Now this isnt a dig at Rooney, obviously he is a great player, but I cant help laughing when people get carried away with their praise of him.
Also the League is far from over, we have a game in hand and its only NOVEMBER! I could have sworn we were in the relegation zone, by the way some of you sound. trust me everything will be alright.
November 9th, 2008 at 5:45
@Grognard: “It’s time somebody had the guts to say this because so many are just drowning with so much optimism that it’s nauseating to someone who is as pragmatic and realistic as myself. Giggs, Scholes and Neville are holding this team back and must retire.”
Thank you, thank you, thank you. I cant for the life of me understand why people wont be honest about this subject. Yes they were fantastic players i their prime, and they are United legends. But they are past it, and its not disrespectful to say that. Football is a cold game, and sentiment is the kind of thing that will lose us the league and any other chance of silverware. Its time for people to move on from “the kids”. I find it ironic that we have a new batch of kids, but they are being held back by the orginal kids.
November 9th, 2008 at 5:52
@johnsom33:
Excuse me, did you refer to me as wrrrrrrrr?
I am never wrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Anderson is decent little player and I would be more than happy with him as a spot starter or a bench player who can inject some pace and energy into a game. I just don’t feel he has the skill set and finesse that we need for that position right now. It’s not a bias, it’s a fact as I see it. I don’t dislike the player, honest.
Before the season I fully admit that I preferred Tevez to Rooney because I felt Rooney had totally lost his scoring touch and instincts because of low confidence and Fergie’s misuse of him. Tevez was never my preference out there but I felt that he could be controlled more than Rooney. I admit to being wrong. While Capello (not Ferguson) seems to have corrected Wayne’s approach by simply threatening his position with England
Ain’t life a kick in the head?
he has reinvigorated and motivated the lad and in the process his skills and confidence have returned and he has learned to control his style of play to more of what a CF is expected to do. Tevez on the other hand was the product of the numbers game. Only two spots open and Rooney is Fergie’s illegitimate son while Berba is Fergie’s wet dream as a player. So what happens to Carlito? The bench. Now I predicted this before the season started and I even thought it would be great to have all the Tevez energy, desire and ability come off the bench to liven up the team and steal some wins with late goals as a super sub. Problem is that Carlito’s attitude and ego have suffered a severe blow so all the things he was saying about how happy he was at United and how much he admired Fergie was nothing more than Argentine barbecue style bull shit designed to seduce the Boss and make sure he didn’t end up on the bench. It’s too bad for Carlos but lets face it, the way he is now he is not going to be paid what he wants and above all, he’s just not going to start very often. So to Carlos Tevez I say……ADIOS AMIGOS! Don’t let the door hit you on the way out and thanks for everything. See ya, wouldn’t want to be ya.
November 9th, 2008 at 8:08
@johnsom33: I love and respect everything that Giggsy, Scholes and Neville have given to this team for an entire generation. I also am thankful to EVDS for everything and especially for making the save that one us the Champions League, but yes you are right football is a cold game and players come and go. So be off you old boys and thank you kindly for all your contributions. It’s time for youth and time for the old to be given a testimonial and a big parade. As for their past greatness and old ABC song comes to mind “That was then but this is now”.
November 9th, 2008 at 9:46
@Grognard: Maybe its not as usual as before, but I really feel that the team we put out at the moment cant work with eachother. Our player furthest up the field is Ronaldo and he is our winger. Vidic and Rio, who did so well last season, give players to much space between them. The whole team is acting like they have all just ben signed and that is a worry. Like I said, it has to be with Fergie changing the team every game. I just want him to get some stability. Or the worst case scenario, our team just gives a fuck! Have our players really managed to lose their hunger?
November 9th, 2008 at 10:03
@Grognard: Dude, I also think you are wrong about Anderson. You ask where he was for their second goal. He was tackling Fabregas when he made the pass. It was a brilliant turn from Fabregas that fooled Neville who went strongly in on Fabregas so Andy couldnt put the tackle in. He was our best player and I dont understand what you mean. I may have misunderstood you, but you say that the only thing Anderson can do is cover the ball well. I disagree. His positioning is okey, not the best one, and his shooting is miserable, but his passing, vision, energy, pace with the ball and bravery is something that not so many players have. He has the passing of Beckham, vision of Scholes, energy of Sparky, pace of Henry(younger Henry) and the bravery of Keane. With him on the field we do much better. In the last three games, Hull, West Ham and Arsenal, he looked like the only player wanting to win. Some of the others went to sleep against Hull but his kept chasing the ball and opening up their defense. He controlled the game against West Ham and made several great and important passer. He was third last on the ball on those two goals. And yesterday, while Carrick didnt make one great pass, Berba didnt get into one position or Neville didnt go for a run, and when he was he dicided to shoot(wtf like?
), he was fighting and wanting to do well. Our biggest chance in the first half came from his play. He remove 4 Arsenal players with his dribbling and strenght, passed a great ball to Berba who gave it to Park. Had only Rooney been a better finisher it would have stod 1-0 to us… So I think you are looking at the way Anderson plays in the wrong way. Dont think of him anymore like the “Ronaldinho” type. He will never be goal-scoring machine or show-off-your-skills-every-game-for-your-own-fame type. He is a warrior and he is an important asset of this team. He should be a starter for us cause he is an ultimate midfielder.
But I am not here to make you change your mind, I just wanted to prove a point. If you dont then too bad for you.
November 9th, 2008 at 10:06
@RedDevilEddy: Somewhere and sometime in all this Fergie is going to have to look into the mirror and question some of his decisions or question his own hunger and desire to still get the job done. I think the team and Fergie are still suffering from the post EPL and CL winning party of this past Summer. Despite the Ronaldo controversy this team seems to be hung over. They have lost their focus and their hunger and no blind a shit loyalists are going to convince me that the team is just as good as last year or that they will get things right and win the EPL and maybe the CL again this season. I think Fergie has gone a bridge too far with his old guard and it has cost this team. At the same time the youth that he was counting on (Nani, Anderson) have disappointed and regressed. Park, Tevez, Brown, EVDS are all players who have had a major dip in form without injuries having been to blame. Ronaldo is just getting in shape and Rooney runs hot and cold. Rio and Vidic have been sub par but I still think they are pretty awesome. Evra has been inconsistent and our central midfield doesn’t know what their role is and who is going to play. No Scholes, no Hargo, and no cohesiveness. It’s jsut a mess and in all this mess poor Berbatov is thrown in and expected to be the savior. I’ve got news for everyone. This ship was leaking before he even showed up. Poor pre season training and poor overall fitness added to the problems. So what is going on and who the Hell is in charge over there. This team does not look, play or act like a Alex Ferguson run team. I’m sorry but appearances say a lot and the body language, facial expressions and overall play of this team is speaking defeatism and lack of interest. Then ask yourself how would have Fergie dealt with this back in 1998? Is it too much for me to ask him to go back and do it like he used to do it. He has gone soft and has mellowed too much. These players need a good kick in the backside I think. Honestly, when I talk like this I have to pinch myself to realize that I am talking about my beloved and immortal Manchester United and not a bunch of chumps from White Hart Lane. Reminds me of the old saying “Something smells in the state of Denmark”
November 9th, 2008 at 10:14
@RedDevilEddy: Simply put mate, Anderson is not what I want starting in midfield for United. He’s fine but he’s far from fantastic. I want someone who is fantastic and Jose Mourinho does not play midfield. Anderson is an average player. It’s been a year since he played his first game and he still hasn’t scored a bloody goal. That is ridiculous. With Scholes and Hargo in hospital beds how in Gods name are we supposed to compete with Chelsea’s, Liverpool’s, Arsenal’s and Barcelona’s stacked midfields? We are one short step from being totally eliminated from the EPL and I will say right now that our team has no chance against teams like Barca, Bayern and even Chelsea and Liverpool in the CL. We are crap and not playing up tour lofty standards. Anderson is not the major problem but he is holding a position up that should belong to a better player. Fergie needs to buy an attacking midfielder and a winger to either compete with Nani or to take his job. If he cannot see this than I have nothing more to say on this. After all there those many fans who will say Fergie knows a Hell of a lot more than Grognard. And they are probably right. But lately I have to say, I’m not so sure anymore. Perhaps the Grognard does have some wisdom. God knows I’ve been right before. But I have also been wrong too. I pray Fergie can prove me wrong again, but somehow I doubt it this time.
Nice try in changing my mind on Anderson but the only person who will be able to do that is Anderson himself. And time is running out on him and Nani.
November 9th, 2008 at 10:33
@Grognard:
“I want someone who is fantastic and Jose Mourinho does not play midfield.”
Bloody loved that mate! But you have to remember that Anderson is very young. Until Rafael came on yesterday he was the youngest player on the pitch, but he still controlled the game. I realy dont know what more you want from him? Is it him scoring goals and getting into positions? Because if that is the case I see where you come from. But it just doesnt look like his job. When United put crosses in the box, most of the time its the two strikers and teh two wingers that are in there. Except for when Fletch play.
For the midfield issue, I think what have made us lost so many games to the “top 4″ this season is simple. We have played with a 4-4-2(except for first half at Anfield, until Carrick got injured).
Last season away games:
Liverpool: 4-4-2. United: 4-4-2. result: 0-1
Arsenal: 4-4-2. United: 4-4-2. result: 2-2
Chelski: 4-5-1. United 4-5-1. result: 2-1(on a penalty that shouldnt be)
This season away games:
Liverpool: 4-5-1. United: 4-3-3(switch to 4-4-2 in second half). result: 2-1.
Chelski: 4-5-1. United: 4-4-2. Result: 1-1.
Arsenal: 4-5-1. United: 4-4-2. Result: 2-1.
Last season we matched our opponents in midfield. This season we have been run over. Fergie should use the succesful 4-5-1 more often as it did vs Liverpool, Roma, Barcelona and Lyon last season. We have the midfielders to control every game. But when we are 2 against 3 we will suffer. Fergie should play Carrick, Anderson and Hargreaves(Fletch when Hargo isnt fit) more often. USE THAT FORMATION!!!
November 9th, 2008 at 10:40
@Grognard: What has gone wrong with this team? Since the season started we have only seen one performance that can joy us. And that is against Blackburn away. The only game this season that we have won both halves. That is a travesty! Of 11 games, we have only won both halves once. WTF???
The hunger of the team has gone. Anderson, Rafael and Ronaldo are actually the only players that are performing like United quality. Neville thinks he is Ronaldinho and has started to shoot from 20 yards in every game. DUDE!? that aint your job old man! We are inconsistent and that is the major worry. We need to pick ourselves up. If this game wasnt a warning sign for our boys, then I dont know what will be… 
November 9th, 2008 at 11:54
@RedDevilEddy: hold up, less than 24 hours ago you were prophecying a United Massacre. Now the team has only had performance worthy of yout praise. So please tell me how we go from massacre potential to this game is a warning sign?
November 9th, 2008 at 13:38
I think alot of our problems this year are because of problems off the pitch. The main one for me being that the tactics r all wrong and the players r not fired up. Alot of this is down to the choice of the assistant. For the life of me i have no idea why we didnt try to appoint some1 like michael laudrup who was available, the boca manager (dont know his name) etc. Phelan was a hasty appointment and 1 that i feel is wrong. Grognard said in 1 of his posts that he wants the players to play with heart like cantona did in his playing days. Well, what about appointing cantona in some capacity. Maybe not tactically but he will improve our hunger and confidence and i doubt his tactics can be as bad as they r now. If not then whats wrong with ole or some1 like that. Put it this way, if we keep our staff as it is then our season is over.
November 9th, 2008 at 13:48
@johnsom33: Well, United have played badly for some time now. Even the game against West Brom was bad. We may have scored 4 goals, but our ability to play in 90 minutes is something that we have lacked since the CL final in May. United are known for coming back strongly. I knew it was gonna be a tough game yesterday, but that was only if we conceded the first goal, which we did. We were unfortunate, cause we had enough chances to be up by 2 or 3 goals by Nasris first. I think the team is brilliant, we can beat anybody. But that is not the team Fergie plays right now. I am a little worried cause I think he wants Neville to be captain. I know that it inst just me that thinks this, but Neville has proved absolutely nothing to become our right-back, certanly not our captain! He keeps playing Park like a CDM, not a winger. So why place him there in the first place? VDS is losing it and so is Giggs. Our team looks like they are playing for nothing more than a practice, and its not just yesterdays game, but the whole season in general. We just dont seem to care! And I feel Berba is being used in the wrong manner. Either Rooney should work on his finishing, or Berba should be our player that plays furthest up the field. If we used that team as it should be to play on their strenght, Rooney behind Berba, Park and Ronaldo cutting in and Neville not taking 30-yard shots, then we might have been fine. Fergie needs to find out how this team can play on their strenghts! Neville and Giggs cant be starters anymore. Foster should get more games. Park should be sold. Berba should have at least 1/5 of the teams shot in a game. If Fergie keeps playing this team as it is now, we will be in severe trouble.
November 9th, 2008 at 14:26
grognard, i generally want to know what you want in a midfielder and winger. anderson has everything you would want in a midfielder apart from goals. so because he has one flaw, hes average? no offence grogy but you are a goal whore. anderson controlled the game yesterday, and if he cant score goals so be it. i would take anderson over lampard and gerrard anyday of the week, thats not me looking at it with red tinted glasses, thats me looking at the whole package. he brings much energy to our midfield, that no other CM can. he is an excellent passer, runner and has a lot of strength for a small guy. He doesnt get goals, okay, but everything else you would want in a midfielder he hasnt, he is almost the complete package, 90% there. He just needs goals.
and wingers, well i think nani is a pretty good winger, he has the skills of ronaldo and the crossing of beckham, he just needs to improve his decision making, which compared to last season, has improved tremendously.
November 9th, 2008 at 14:39
some people here quoted me a whole long list of VDS achievements when I pointed out he is not a great keeper anymore (see comments on previous post). Its time we had a better keeper (and Kuszack and Foster are NOT the answers as both are pretty much unproven at the top level and can cost us the odd very important game) We need a keeper of the class of Cech, Buffon or Casillas.
Secondly we need a world class midfielder out there! We dont have anybody who can be labeled world class right now in the mid! OH is out for too long and we dont know if he will be able to make a successful comeback, Scholes is old, Fletch,Ando,Carrick are all club level only. There is nobody in Lampard/Deco/Ballack/Fabregas/Gerrard class. There is so much pressure on our forwards to score for wins, most of all on Ronaldo as he is the ONLY credible goal scoring threat in our side. I think these two positions are the most vital to fill right now.
And I dont know why people want any more DMFs??? Ando,Fletch,Carrick,Scholes all do this job… Who is the attacking guy in the mid right now??? If teams manage to stifle Rooney,Ronaldo,Berba than we cant score simply!!!
November 9th, 2008 at 14:43
@jos: every time anderson has played fabregas in his career, he has made hi look like a bitch. fabregas is not world class, vastly over-rated.
and foster spent a full season on loan at watford where he really got his name on the map.
November 9th, 2008 at 15:00
@jos: I wouldn’t say Foster and Kuszcy aren’t up to it, they’ve never been given a run of games in which to prove their credemtials. Personally, I think one of them will be VDS’s heir. Fergie just needs to let the oldguard be and give the young ‘uns more chances to prove themselves.
I agree about the fact we need an attacking mid. I talked about this in a previous post. All our current midfielders are either central or defensive. We have no midfielder which can playmake further up the pitch and chip in with a few goals like the Scholes of old. That is an area where the team is lacking and Fergie has tried to play Giggs in that position, but it hasn’t really worked out as well as we would like. All this midfield general stuff, Carrick, Fletch, Hargo, Rodrigo and Ando can do that, but we lack a potent attacking threat thru the middle.
Another area where I feel we need reinforcements is in the wings. As of now, we only have two competent wingers; Ronaldo and Nani. That is simply not enuff. Ronaldo can’t play every game for us and neither can Nani… maybe that why SAF reportedly tried to buy Silva during the summer, who knows, but we need cover in that department. A young, pacy winger who can beat players, cross the ball and place a shot on target would be my pick.
November 9th, 2008 at 15:07
@dan(u-ol): man yet fabregas created that second goal for Nasri (it was, as they say, served on the plate for him) yesterday. I didnt see Anderson create any goal for us!!!
Last season too in the same game Fabregas created a goal. And I didnt see Anderson create anything in that game. He managed to contain Febregas as you say but still Fabregas is so good that he created two goals for Gunners in two games (last year and this year)!
Foster has played for Watford but not for a club like Utd or in Europe. If he was good enough he would be playing ahead of VDS who is playing like shit right now!!!
November 9th, 2008 at 15:16
@jos: fabregas was only given the opportunity because of the heroics of neville. look at the replay and see who is to blame.
its as clear as daylight that saf prefers playing old guard players with experience rather thetn the younger players who are clearly better. foster IS better then vds, but vds has “experience” experience that costs us more often then not.
November 9th, 2008 at 15:28
@dan(u-ol): Dan, thank you. I agree with everything you said. We both love Anderson to bones and we two thgether have the force to prove Grognard wrong.
Anderson is a complete midfielder and I would take him over everyone! LONG LIVE ANDERSON!!! 
November 9th, 2008 at 16:02
@RedDevilEddy:
November 9th, 2008 at 16:12
whats that we shoulda bought huntelaar? he’s banging them in again for ajax this season.
i cant really see the point in having a go at fergy, you did the same early last season and we won the prem and the champs and every1 shut the fack up. but as usual its all started again. the team didnt play great no, but we dominated arsenal at the emirates and i can’t believe we didnt leave with a win or at least a draw. on another day ronaldo woulda scored the sitter, clichy woulda scored an og, we had a gazillion chances.
im sure some of you were watching a different game to me? targeting park, he did exactly what fergy woulda have told him to do and he did it well. he didnt ask him to go out and be like ronaldo, he was there for a purpose away at the emirates. anderson was good bar his shooting, he shields the ball so well. for me carrick was off his game, he couldnt pass a ball forwards that game was so frustrating to watch.
berbatov is an immense player, and i disagree about the attack being less versatile with him. he drops deep he’s always on the right when ronaldo isn’t. he rarely lose the ball, great touch awareness etc but hes not that goal scorer ala huntelaar who i was raving for us to buy instead of berba.
November 9th, 2008 at 16:31
@dan(u-ol):
November 9th, 2008 at 16:42
I quit!
November 9th, 2008 at 16:52
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/ikillsuckers247/andersonskillug3.gif
Do I have to say more?
November 9th, 2008 at 16:56
@RedDevilEddy: thats the second time he’s done that!
November 9th, 2008 at 17:04
@dan(u-ol): And it will be many more.
November 9th, 2008 at 17:06
@jos: ” I didnt see Anderson create any goal for us!!!”
That was because our forwards were fucked up!
For starters, he gifted Berba a beutiful opportunity, which, instead of shooting, our 30m pund striker passed the ball in the penalty area to Ronaldo, who passed to Rooney, who completely missed. It’s not Anderson’s fault that all 3 of them squandered his beautiful pass.
I ask again, with Rooney, Berba, Tevez, Ronaldo and Nani ahead of him, why is it so vital for him to score goals? We don’t need an attacking mid, we have plenty. What we do need is for our forwards to do what they’re getting paid millions to do.
November 9th, 2008 at 17:11
@Grognard: Eliminated from the EPL? Like relegated? I’m not sure if thats what you mean, if it is, then wow, take a chill pill
November 9th, 2008 at 17:21
@Grognard: Bayern? Is this the same Bayern that are on the same amount of points as us in a considerably weaker league and are 4 points behind TSG Hoffenheim, all the while with a worse goal difference?
@Rd: He means we won’t win the league.
Panic!!!!
Fuck’s sake like we were always up against it seeing as there’s only been three teams to have ever won three titles in a ro. (I think that’s right)
November 9th, 2008 at 17:29
@Karl: So ok our forwards are so fucked up this season!
Last season the trio of Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez scored about 80 goals between them. Now can you tell me how many assists Anderson had in whole of the season when our attackers scored 80 goals? We all know for sure he scored a grand total of ZERO goals whole year!
He must be the least scoring/assisting midfielder on earth really!
November 9th, 2008 at 17:35
@jos: Jos.
2007-09: Anderson 0 goals, 7 assists in all competitions, but 3rd or 4th last United player on the ball before a goal 23 times. Good enough for ya?
November 9th, 2008 at 17:45
People criticise Anderson for the same reason that I criticise Berbatov. It’s not their fault really. I find it hard to believe that we were a ‘complete team’ last season with the major advantage of being young. Yet, now it seems to some that we need to buy some more players?!?!? That too is not the answer. We don’t need anyone. We need to sort our shit out. Unfortunately, there’s only one man that can do that. And, for as long as he choose to ignore it, we will continue to be entertained by abysmal performances like yesterday.
November 9th, 2008 at 17:49
You guys seems like my wife…
“someone pissed me off at work – let’s go shopping?”
November 9th, 2008 at 18:03
@Karl:
November 9th, 2008 at 18:30
Why all the criticism leveled at Anderson??? He is not an attacking mid, his displays have shown us that much. He is a combative, creative center mid. Heck, that’s the position he plays for Brazil. I reckon all these confusion started with our pre-conceptions of him on his arrival to United.
As far as i’m concerned, Ando has played excellently as a center mid and that is the position that suits his strengths. He is strong, can retain/recover the ball, agile and can pick out good passes; all qualities that make an excellent center mid. He however, cannot score, make productive runs into the area or playmake in and around the penalty area; all qualities needed by an attacking mid. He is young, and if need be, could be developed into a more attacking midfielder, but he doesn’t have some of the vital qualities required for that position, hence he is occupying the position best suited for him.
It’s also not a case of him being restricted to the position he is given by the team, if he was a true attacking mid, those qualities would have shone thru at least a couple of times. Anderson, to me, is a more combative Xavi. If he slowed his game down a bit, he could pick out even better passes and maybe be more composed when he shoots at goal.
I reckon we should all give up on this dream of him being our Ronaldinho or Lampard because that’s not his style. He is playing well in a position that suits him; a central one. The fact remains, United do not have a true Attacking midfielder, that’s why Fergie has tried to deploy Giggsy in that position.
November 9th, 2008 at 18:44
Fuck us All! Whatever you do. We Cant do a fickle about what happens at MUFC. Sorey guys! Just wish Fergie had an account on RR!
November 9th, 2008 at 19:00
@Gabriel: Grognards never been caught up in the hype about Anderson, same for JB.
They both have serious worries about him.
Which seems fair enough considering his two biggest flaws are the two most important things in a centre mid – stamina and the ability to know when to slow the game down and play the easy pass.
November 9th, 2008 at 19:06
@dan(u-ol): Dan, Anybody who would take Anderson over Gerrard or Lampard isn’t worth an explanation.
Why? Because mate, you just don’t get it. It’s not just about goals, although a goal or two would be nice. 
You’ve been rather quiet of late mate. Good to hear from you, even if I disagree with your comment.
November 9th, 2008 at 19:10
@Red Diablo: Maybe I can in the future. Who knows, I may be a United player before he retires.
November 9th, 2008 at 19:13
@Conor: Fair enough, but I reckon that’s due to his youthful exuberance. Like I said, if he just slowed his game down a bit, he would perform on a whole new level. This is the kinda advice he should be receiving from the United staff.
When he played for Brazil in the Olympics, his game was slowed a bit and he did a great job in midfield, even scoring a goal. 
What do you reckon about this midfield issue?? Do you think we need a defensive midfielder or an attacking one. I reckon we have enough midfielders who could play well defensively but none really that can play well further up the pitch. They all lack that control, penetration and composure needed for that position, except maybe Carrick (who has actually become our present defensive mid).
November 9th, 2008 at 19:13
@dan(u-ol): And Dan, even Craig I’m sure would be honest enough to say that Nani is not in Beckham’s league when it comes to crossing and is he in the same universe with Ronaldo skill wise? I don’t think so. Only Messi and Kaka are in that elite company.
Get serious mate. Your bias is showing a little to much and you are losing your sense of realistic perspective. It’s fine to like a player but to defend him as a star when he is totally average is just convoluted.
November 9th, 2008 at 19:14
Guys, if you could buy any xbox 360 game right now, what would it be? Except for FIFA 09, Call of Duty 4 or PES 09.
November 9th, 2008 at 19:18
@RedDevilEddy: You would need the Armies of Gondor and the Riders of Rohan as well as a strong wizard to force me into a corner and force prove me wrong. It’s not going to happen and you know why? Because I’m not wrong. Let Anderson prove me wrong. So far he hasn’t. That’s all I’m going to say on that matter.
November 9th, 2008 at 19:18
@Gabriel: I really dont think we need an attacking midfielder. Why play an unproven 4-1-3-2 just for fun? United play with two midfielders that can attack if nessasary, ut spend most of their time sitting just in front of the defense. And we use two wingers that go into the box and 2 strikers that move absolutely everywhere in and around the 18-yard box. So we dont need an attacking mid, if we do it will mess up our game.
November 9th, 2008 at 19:20
@rica: Now there is a comment I can really agree with. Yes indeed Berbatov is a great player and he’s not to blame for our problems, but yes Huntelaar would have been the better choice because he is much more of a goal scorer. I commend you on that insight.
November 9th, 2008 at 19:21
@Grognard: I am not here to prove you wrong. Everybody have their own opinion and I respect that. I just say my feelings about one player and you do, and I see where you stand. Thats fine with me. Some people like Park, some like Nani. Some people like Hargreaves, some like Anderson. Some like Rooney, some like Tevez. Thats how it goes. Its against my policy to even try to prove you wrong, I am just here to write my opinions.
And I think Anderson is a complete midfielder. 
November 9th, 2008 at 19:22
@RedDevilEddy: It’s getting a bit tired mate, really.
November 9th, 2008 at 19:24
@Rd: I meant out of first place contention. Far from being relegated so perhaps it’s you who should take the chill pill mate. Talk about misunderstanding and overreaction. United couldn’t get relegated even if they tried to.
November 9th, 2008 at 19:27
Scholes, Neville, Giggs and EVDS have given us great service and all of them for different reasons will go down as legends, and last season SAF was right to use them while some of the younger ones cut thier teeth, but now he has to be ruthless and seriously restrict thier game time coz all this chopping and changing is preventing our team from growing and maturing properly and this is were the inconsistency is coming from and in my opinion we played our best football whenever Scholes, Carrick and Park were injured leaving us with Hargreaves and Anderson in the centre.
Now Im not saying that Ando and Hargo are the best partnership, but SAF had to play them which allowed them to develope a bit of an understanding and consistency in thier game which not one of our centre mids have been able to reproduce since.
In my opinion Nani and Anderson are at a stage in thier development were they need to be starting most matches to enable them to mature and progress at the proper rate and this simply is not happening at the moment coz the problems that people are pointing out in thier play will develope with experience. Take Fabregas for example, many people thought that Wenger was a bit too hasty selling Viera, but he knew that Fabregas needed the chance to grow and Viera would have hindered this so Viera was off and Fabregas has progressed well since then. And another thing, during the first year of Vieras departure many people criticized Fabregas for the same thing that Anderson is currently getting criticized for, lack of goals, which Fabregas has since added to his game.
Anderson has this in his locker, its up to SAF to utilise it and bring it out.
As for Nani, its clear that the kid has bags of ability, but he needs to learn the game mentally and this only happens by playing and it must be frustrating for him to watch Park run himself into the ground whilst producing nothing offensively or watching Rooney play out wide and prodruce very little, can you imagine what it must be doing for his confidence, SAF just baffles me sometimes.
Now for those of you who are not fans of Anderson and Nani, your opinions may be right, but it would be nice for these kids to at least be given the proper chance to show case thier talents, and having played football at a reasonable level myself, in my opinion thats not happening at OT at the minute.
And dont forget, Nani destroyed Arsenal at OT last season, why was he not on instead of Park yesterday, the problems that Nasri gave us could have been matched by Nani,
November 9th, 2008 at 19:30
@Conor: Bayern have played very well in the Champions League and they are now playing well in the Bundesliga too. They needed time to get adjusted to Klinsmann’s new regime and style of play. They also have waited to get Toni back and Ribery is also healthy and contributing again. Today they beat a good team in Schalke on the road. So your argument doesn’t really wash with me. They only have Hoffenheim to beat in the Bundesliga, not Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal.
And sorry if my views offend you. What I have to say has nothing to do with panic. It’s got to do with reality. And if you doubt what i have to say that is fine. I’m not insulting your intelligence and optimistic opinion or outlook. Fell free to disagree with mine but don’t think for a minute that I decide anything in my mind on panic and stupidity.
November 9th, 2008 at 19:31
@Gabriel: I think we need neither, our midfield’s spot on right now. Once Scholes leaves I’m not sure what we’ll do, because I can’t see any like for like replacements for him now(not in his prime, but in his 06-08 state) but Anderson and Carrick have the makings of a good partnership and I’d be happy with that in the long run as long as Anderson does adjust his game a bit.
Stamina will come with time, decision-making will come with time and the ability to slow the game down will come with experience. Who better to learn from than Scholes and Carrick at doing that?
November 9th, 2008 at 19:37
@RedDevilEddy: Not really. Messi had 4 assists in the game yesterday. Seven for an entire season with no goals and medium ability on defense doesn’t light my fire. I want a world class attacking midfielder at that position. If you are willing to settle for oatmeal while I prefer steak, well that’s your business mate. Perhaps you should have higher aspirations for your team and demand more. You sound like John McCain talking about Joe the Plummer. Your requirements are pretty blue collar for a team that plays white collar football. Again sorry for the frankness mate, but I call things as I see them. The fact you seem to love mediocrity is fine but don’t think you can sell folks like myself on that economy car. I want a Mercedes at that position, not a Ford.
November 9th, 2008 at 19:38
@RedDevilEddy: Well, that system worked because we had a certain Cristiano Ronaldo. He is the key to that system working. That system focuses around him and our two central midfieders didn’t have to do much attacking because we had a quartet of attackers who move around freely and did it themselves. We didn’t notice the attacking impotence of our midfield because of the four in attack. Fergie is trying to change this reliance on ronnie and that is one of the reasons he bought Berba.
Remember early this season when Ronaldo was out and we were struggling to get goals? That was because we changed our system and had no attacking threat thru the middle of the park. That flaw was then obvious for everyone to see. When we do not play our fluid attack around Ronaldo and opt for a standard approach, our midfield fail to come up with the goods, why? Because we have no true attacking midfielder.
Why do you think Fergie has tried to play Giggsy in that position? Or do you think Goggs is playing as a central midfield player? We can’t rely on Ronaldo always being our focal point of attack, we have to adopt new systems, and without an attacking midfielder, those systems are pretty much useless. So far, Giggs has played well in this attacking position, but it is not his natural position and we need a player that is versed in this position and can contribute more positively than negatively when deployed there.
November 9th, 2008 at 19:40
@Karl: Karl, why do you get so frustrated? This is a rant site for crying out loud. We rant because we either love or hate something. If you are looking for a total love in go to United’s official site where everything is perfect and rosy and your senses are not offended. Jeez, why can’t we all just be a little more tolerant of opposing views?
November 9th, 2008 at 19:42
@Grognard: Seriously, this shit is getting boring.
Like I said earlier, you have your opinions and I have mine. Lets settle with that and see what the future brings! Okey?
November 9th, 2008 at 19:49
@Gabriel: I am long past the Ronaldinho comparison mate. In fact I have a real chuckle about it when I think about it. Anderson is a decent player. He’s just not what we need to help this team be a better team and more dynamic. To quote the Godfather, “It’s not personal, it’s business.” I have nothing against Anderson other than his hair cut. In fact I love his desire, dribbling skills and ability to protect the ball. What I don’t like is his complete ineptness at scoring goals, his inconsistent passing and his overall inconsistency and ability to fade out of a game. In fact, he faded out of site completely in the last third of last season. He is young and he can improve a lot I’m sure but United cannot waste a vital position and wait for that. We are defending EPL and European champions. We need world class at that position and we don’t have that with Anderson, Scholes, Giggs or anyone else. That is my point. It’s not about putting Anderson down even though he is clearly not up to United’s requirements. It’s about getting a player capable of making a truly major contribution similar to a Ballack, Lampard, Gerrard, Riquelme, Deco, van der Vaart, Fabregas etc. Now honestly mate, how can you possibly put Anderson in the same company as those world class players? You can’t. And that’s all I’m saying. Without putting him down I am saying we need a world class player at that position, not international class. The bridge in class is major.
November 9th, 2008 at 19:51
@Red Diablo: If this blog had any clout at Old Trafford I’d be working as #2 and not Mike Phelan. And we would be better off cause I can give a screaming good motivational speech. And my mother has even more tactical and strategic sense than Phelan.
And we would be saying goodbye to Scholes, Giggs and Neville too.
November 9th, 2008 at 19:51
@Grognard: The fact that they’re 4th in the league, behind 3 considerably worse teams doesn’t wash with you?
We’ve had our injuries too, so using the Ribery and Toni excuse doesn’t work.
You could make an argument that we’ve struggled to adapt without Querioz in our team as well.
The fact is Bayern are a worse team than Manchester United and have proven so this season, no matter where the source of their problems have come from.
It was a joke Grognard, you’re seeming particularly unhappy today. Can’t you just embrace the fact that we watched a wonderful match yesterday and played some great football rather than focus on how poor we were in some aspects?
November 9th, 2008 at 19:56
@Conor: Too true. Finesse and controlling the pace and flow of a game is vital at that position. Just think Paul Scholes circa 1999/2002. He was a master at it. Today he is too slow and rather negative but in his hey day he was a special attacking midfielder. Anderson plays like he’s got the gas pedal stuck at 120 MPH. Nobody can create the finesse passes and lobs or even take the patience to strike a ball solidly when they are constantly gassing themselves out. Thanks for bringing that up mate.
November 9th, 2008 at 19:58
@RedDevilEddy: Just do yourself a favor, don’t run around at full speed like a chicken with his head cut off and do one major thing. Practice shooting where you actually hit the net. Good luck with that.
November 9th, 2008 at 20:05
@Gabriel: Either would be nice but in my not so humble opinion this team needs a schemer. An attacking midfielder with extreme vision, imagination and the ability to pass, change pace and and finesse his way around while being able to score a goal when the opportunity arises. Hell, I’d settle for a left winger who can do that like Franck Ribery. But an AMF would be sweet And as much as I like young players like Marco Marin, Sotiris Ninis, and others, I still would prefer an experienced player because this team has no time to tinker with youth at such an important position. Anderson is our youth, Scholes and Giggs are too old to play that role so we need someone who is 24+ in age who has a pedigree and credentials as a world class AMF. Hard to find because teams do not like to sell these players and we aren’t like Chelsea or Man City where we can say price is no object.
November 9th, 2008 at 20:08
There you go….someone at last said it …Robson on Berbatov
I dont say Berbatov is the only problem or Anderson or anyone else…Team MUFC has lost their hunger and desire that took us to the top of Europe last time…Last year Tevez had to prove at a bigger stage..Rooney and Tevez had to prove they can play together…Ronaldo had to prove he is the best player in the planet..Nani,Hargo and Andy have to prove their worth…This time around i dont see any desire from anyone..our only purchase Berbatov has such a “so laid back” attitude which i dont think is inspiring anyone..
Now personally, lot of ppl talking about purchasing poacher type strikers and creative midfielders etc…what you ppl dont know is we have the most balanced squad in Europe….The thing is how the managment find the right tactics for them..
We have to admit that we dont have any Fabregas or Gerrard or Lampard in our team who will provide goals from midfield but we have Ronaldo , a winger who scored 42 goals…agile,clever,battling and ever willing runners in Rooney and tevez..We have a laid back,clever and more classy one in Berbatov…and we have good hustle and bustle midfielders in Fletcher,Andy and Park…vision and passing range of Carrick and Giggs and strong defense and good backup for that..
I think i have to say we need to try the following tactics…
VDS (whom i should think be replaced by Foster/Kuszack)
Brown/Rafael/Neville – Rio/Evans – Vidic/O’shea – Evra/Fabio
Carrick/Giggs/Scholes- Fletcher/Andy/Hargo
Ronaldo/Nani-Rooney-Tevez/Park
Berbatov/Manucho
This look like a foolish idea…but this is something we need right now…We need the 3 behind Berbatov to make the runs(coz i dont see Berbatov doing that much) and allow Berbatov’s touch and vision to pick them up..The new system can be replaced by 4-4-2 but Rooney-Tevez have to play upfront…
Some here is so obsessed with “clazzy” Berbatov that they are finding hard to admit that we are missing Tevez’s desire upfront which would certainly will instill the same to all other players around him…..
November 9th, 2008 at 20:08
@RedDevilEddy: That’s easy mate. Gears of War 2 but my personal favorite right now is Tom Clancy’s End War. Voice activated recognition when giving your units orders is really cool. Unless you already have one, buy the version with the head set. Cool game.
November 9th, 2008 at 20:16
@RedDevilEddy: Fair enough mate but you said and I quote, “We both love Anderson to bones and we two together have the force to prove Grognard wrong.” Now how am I supposed to interpret there is nothing wrong with what i am saying and that you aren’t determined to prove me wrong when you use terms like together you will prove me wrong? Seriously, I get a laugh from the whole thing but I never got the impression that you were going to settle with my view and that you were going to fight like Hell to change my mind. Just remember, Luke Skywalker doesn’t have the FORCE to prove me wrong. Nice try anyway.
November 9th, 2008 at 20:21
@Conor: From the sound of it mate, it sounds like you drink your coffee black and refuse to use salt or pepper in your food. You please far too easily in my books. But that’s fine. You are certainly welcome to your opinion on the team. If you can’t see it as broken than no stranger on a blog is going to have the power to change your mind. I sincerely hope you prove us all wrong. But truthfully, I seriously doubt it.
November 9th, 2008 at 20:23
@RedDevilEddy: On that we can definitely agree upon.
November 9th, 2008 at 20:27
@Conor: Sorry Conor but don’t assume what kind of mood I’m in. First off I disagree about Bayern and all I have to say is look at their lineup and then look where they will be at the end of the year. They are very good. As for yesterday’s game, we played like shit and were total garbage to boot. If that effort and style of play turns your crank then all the power to you mate. I have higher expectations than that to be sure.
November 9th, 2008 at 20:28
@Grognard: Heh, you Canadian’s and all your crazy sayings. Coffee tastes of piss, I stay well away from it.
I can see problems, but it’s depressing to focus on them if I can have absolutely no input into trying to fix them.
I think the problems are much more minute too, but that’s besides the point.
November 9th, 2008 at 20:31
@Shyam: Is Rooney’s desire up front not the same or even better than Tevez’? No what we need is goals and we get absolutely nothing from Tevez. Cheap thrills mean little. I want substance and Berbatov offers far more substance and far less frills than Carlito. If you can’t see that mate, I have no cure for your ills.
November 9th, 2008 at 20:33
@Grognard: I thought you were a new man Grognard, that’s what I’d been told. You’re still too easily upset judging from all of these ‘ :rolleyes: ‘ smilies and the tone of your posts.
And for the life of me I still can’t understand why you’re like this, on an internet forum in particular.
November 9th, 2008 at 20:35
@Conor: That’s far too mature an outlook mate. Of course you and I cannot do anything about it but we can rant on a blog with like minded individuals who share the same interest. Consider RedRants a fantasy collection of Manchester United’s fictional Board of Directors. And just play along that what you say does matter. It’s so much more fun that way. And by the way, is their anything more boring and overrated on this planet than tea? That should get some of you Brits, Scots, Welsh and Irish up in arms a bit.
