Nov 23
Aston Villa 0-0 Man Utd: United Escape With Draw
United put on another disjointed away display as Aston Villa did their claim to the number four slot no harm with a credible draw at Villa Park. There is a lot to say in the post mortem analysis, so let’s get on with it.
It was always going to be hard following an international break which was as important as a comb for Wayne Rooney. The team hardly got together as a team prior to the game, in the words of Fergie. And in fact, part of his lineup was dictated by that disjointedness. So whilst the back four (O’Shea, Rio, Vidic, Evra) was a reasonable enough choice, the midfield had Ronaldo, Giggs, Carrick and Park. Nani, Anderson and Ronaldo had all returned from Brazil and it seemed unlikely that the boss was going to play all three in a midfield four, against a hardworking and well rested (relatively) Villa midfield trio of Petrov, Reo-Coker and Sidwell. Ronaldo, as I said in the preview, was always going to start, and so he did. Rooney and Tevez made up the front two.
I did however find the substitutions strange, and served as another illustration of why Ferguson is missing someone with a better tactical brain. But we’ll touch on that after this.
United were as dire as I’ve ever seen them all season. Passes went astray, moves broke down courtesy some lazy work or poor positioning of players, or some good work by the Villa players. Ronaldo did all he could do. But he needed help which he wasn’t getting. He ran as much as his travel weary legs could afford him, but after riding one double-teamed challenge after another something had to give. His sulking and frustrations for every challenge, while being cringeworthy to me, was understandable considering nothing is currently going his way. Of course, him gesturing to away fans and reminding them of his number one status was a little too desperate. Cristiano, you are much better than that mate. Surely, for a person who had the mental fortitude to rise above the bile following the 2006 WC fallout, this seems a little too brittle? In short, he was well snuffed out by the Villa defence, so credit where it was due.
Rooney and Tevez were clearly not working on yesterday’s evidence. Tevez seems a pale shadow of last season, and nothing remotely approaching his pre-season hunger and form. He was reduced to trying to win the ball in vain in his own half. Can’t seem to be able to buy a goal for himself even if his life depended on it. Park tried but didn’t help. Rooney — well, let’s just say that he seems either a little low on confidence or hasn’t returned to full fitness, yet.
The defence, however, was the saving grace, with EVDS and Vidic being exceptional. The crunching tackle by Vidic, contrary to what the commentators might make you believe, was not a penalty.
On to the tactics, and it was strange to see what Fergie was thinking when he sent Nani on for Tevez; throwing in a striker, who might spend more time in the business end, for someone who spent more time playing defensive midfield clearly made sense. Ronaldo could have been the Nani replacement, as he was limping whilst Anderson could have come on for Giggs, who was easily overrun. It’s the sort of strange substitutions that have been perplexing.
All said, it was a tough away game against a team, for all our excellent head-to-head record, that needs to be taken seriously. It was made doubly difficult following the international game and injuries. However, whilst I can accept a draw when the team gives their all, it leaves me asking questions about our ability to dig in under adversity and eke out a result. It was the sort of game where the side might have got all three points despite injuries.
It’s November, and it’s too early to call the season over. But December doesn’t get any easier with the distraction of the World Club Cup, and on a day when Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea drew, it has to be put down as a case of an opportunity gone amiss.
Related items from Red Rants:
- Aston Villa vs Man United: Preview
- Aston Villa v Manchester United: Preview/Match thread
- Aston Villa 0-2 Manchester United: Ronaldo and Rooney complete a late win
- Manchester United v Aston Villa Preview – Tougher than it looks
- Porto it is then…
Tags: Match Reports
November 23rd, 2008 at 14:11
Well said RR.
Yesterday was definitely an opportunity missed, but what was even more sad to see was the way we played. I wouldn’t have cared if we played well, and were kept out by Brad Friedel…However, I bet Brad himself must be shocked at what an easy evening he had…a cakewalk for him compared to recent outings against United.
November 23rd, 2008 at 14:13
Tevez needs to find last years form because im sure fergie will start having doubts about signing him…What is he now..i dont think u can call him a striker anymore…he has no striking ability right now. As for giggs playing from the start il never know
November 23rd, 2008 at 14:13
surely something’s missing in this year’s side.for all our possesion we don’t know how to play the final penetrating ball.to many passes go horizontally into the wings where the player is already marked and thus won’t be able to put a cross in.its become a steady pattern this year that teams play 5 in midfield against us and get all their men near the edge of the box and we can’t find a way through.as far as tevez’s poor form i believe fergie is himself to blame for this.at the start of the season when he was so confident and hungry fergie never gave him a single start.surely that would have an effect on any player especially you are the one who had the best pre season of all players.ronaldo did try very hard yesterday i felt but he was double teamed everytime.surprise for me was that EVDS looked pretty good.he handled crosses very well.and i agree with you totally with the fact that fergie needs someone with better tactical brains.more i see united play this season more i believe they’re not nearly as good as last 2 seasons.
November 23rd, 2008 at 14:20
Arsenal Lost, and Liverpool and Chelsea drew at HOME to teams who I think were 18th and 11th. We drew away to the 4th best team in the league.. If the matches had happened in a different order, We’d have draw first and then the other results had happened, we’d be saying it was a bloody good week, as we had by far the hardest game of the top 3.
We’ve only been beaten twice, and those were away to Liverpool and Arsenal. We’re playing badly, but I think if we’d had Fletcher in midfield instead of Giggs yesterday we’d have played a bit higher up the pitch and unlocked their defence.
Also, I doesn’t help that Park can’t shoot for dust and Rooney is intent on smashing his 100th in, not tapping it in.
Portugal are rubbish enough, fire Quieroz already so we can have him back!
November 23rd, 2008 at 14:27
Ronaldo is losing his bottle. He reckons he’s the first, second and third best player in the World… but Kaka, Robinho and Fabiano were all better than him during the week, leading to his petulance in Brazil. Yesterday he felt the need to repeatedly tell the home crowd he was number one, in what was a totally cringeworthy episode as he walked to the tunnel. Get a fucking grip, Ronnie. It’s embarrassing.
November 23rd, 2008 at 14:43
Not a penalty! perhaps not as it was against Man U, but actually it was a foul that lasted 20 yards and finished with a decent tackle as Gabby was pulled to the floor by his shirt, how you can watch the it and say its was not is beyond believe, other than that not a bad summary of the game, who is the number one player?
November 23rd, 2008 at 14:54
RR i beg t differ with you and doubt your tactical nous because of this statement…
“On to the tactics, and it was strange to see what Fergie was thinking when he sent Nani on for Tevez; throwing in a striker, who might spend more time in the business end, for someone who spent more time playing defensive midfield clearly made sense. Ronaldo could have been the Nani replacement, as he was limping whilst Anderson could have come on for Giggs, who was easily overrun. It’s the sort of strange substitutions that have been perplexing.”
Nani coming in for Tevez meant Ronaldo was going to go upfront along side Rooney and it didnt need a genius to see that Giggs was the best performer in our central midfield yesterday irrespective of his age and how some of us on this blog nolonger believe in his qualities.
I think it has become a natural bias for us fans against the lad that even when he puts in a profound perfomance, we always use him as a scapegoat when thigs dont go United’s way. For heaven’s sake, if all of us were watching the same match, had Park converted his chance for that through ball from Rooney or had Rooney himself converted the chance he got for the aerial pass from Carrick, i doubt if Villa would have kept 10 men behind the ball. Any of those chances converted would have opened them up, and who knows, may be more goals might have entered.
And for Carrick, what happened to his shooting skills? Everytime he gets at the edge of the box, he tries to look for that decisive, splitting killer pass when in actually sense he would have gone for goal himself. Such were the attributes that made Ssholes score 14 goals in the EPL per season from the middle of the park. And we all know that Carrick has that capability and can afford that, but why not give it a shot?
November 23rd, 2008 at 15:21
But after Ronaldo got taken off for Anderson, who was filling in as the second striker with Rooney? Giggs? I must say that was a God awful way of trying to score goals. I mean, come on!! We were on the offense then, trying to score goals and we dont put in two regular strikers? Giggs isnt a regular striker. Although Andy was good in the little time that he was out, there should have been supported by a regular striker. Welbeck should have been brought on.
And I certainly dont think Giggs was the star performer yesterday and I fully agree with RR. He was losing posessions, he was the weak link whenever we managed to put in a string of passes. On the whole, he should have been subbed for Andy, and Ronaldo for Welbeck after Ronnie was made to move in as second striker. For me, Ronaldo tried his best but then when you are amrkd by two – three guys and they are hell bent on parking your arse on the park, then I guess thats about as good as anyone can get. As for his gesture towards the crowd, yes it was slightly embarrasing. I think Ronaldo is a guy wih a swollen brain. Extremely arrogant. I heard Nereida Gallardo saying somewhere that he writes CR7 and the number 7 all over his house. What a prick man!! But still, he is a United player and prick or not he is bloody goddamn good. So I am behind him.
November 23rd, 2008 at 15:34
@Scott the Red: completely agree. Somehow he is immune from criticism though
it doesn’t matter how bad Ronaldo is when there are Rooneys, Parks and O’Sheas to be blamed. We don’t owe him jack shit. If anything he should be playing out of his skin week in week out to repay us for that shit during the Summer. Not proclaiming his brilliance to anyone who’ll listen. 10 years ago he’d have been outta here faster than you could say slave. All of these free-kicks that he takes from 40 yards out, I wish someone on the team had the bottle to put him in his place. Everyone’s too afraid he’ll leave for Madrid if we are mean to him. I say if he wants to be so childish then start treating him like a child
November 23rd, 2008 at 15:39
Liam, completely agree mate, he is treating us like his bitch and we shouldnt stand for it. Put him in his place and tell him if he dont like it then he can f**k off. I cant help but thinking maybe it wud have been better to just let him leave. I think all the crap with him in the summer has had an effect on the players and i dont think hes bothered about what we do anymore and just wants to leave.
November 23rd, 2008 at 15:47
I find it strange that in the last few matches Park spent more time in the penalty box than our strikers. Not sure if anyone agrees?
November 23rd, 2008 at 15:48
@Matthew:
Well if he does f**k off, let us see how many goals our “strikers” will score.he may be an arrogant prick, but he is definitely our best player (if not the best in the world) and it will take some miracle to replace him. Cut him some slack will you?
November 23rd, 2008 at 16:06
Vivek, the way i see it we could have replaced him with a couple of players. Now yes i admit he is our best player but if he sint happy then let him go, do u really want a player that only plays for us because he has to. From his sale we cud bring in 3 or 4 new players and strengthen the entire team whilst yes weakening 1 area. I mean put it this way, how many wingers in the world get more than 10 goals, not much. But if we brought in a new right winger like ribery or someone along those lines, we cud also invest in a midfielder in the centre who actually scores goals and that is the area where the other big 4 have an advantage over us. But still thats just me so i dunno what u all think.
November 23rd, 2008 at 16:13
Great post RR! I dont know whats happening, vut I believe we need to give it time. We are only three points of our pace this time last season, and look what happened! Keep the faith guys.
November 23rd, 2008 at 16:19
I would really like to see us bring in arshavin in january to help us on the wings. Park is a decent squad player but he is getting alot of games now so he is almost like a first team player and he is no where near good enough to play in the 1st team week in week out. Arshavin can switch wings with ronaldo and can also play as an attacking midfielder so i hope to see us make a bid for him. I know we are packed out in central midfield but we dont have a player apart from ronaldo who can even score 5 goals so we need some1 there.
November 23rd, 2008 at 16:24
@Matthew:
I agree with you in as much that if Real were ready to offer us the silly money being talked about, i.e 70m etc, and we had a replacement ready to go in the mould oF David Silva and/or Villa/Xavi, then we should have let him go. But we didnt, and he is still a United player. And even though he hasnt hit the highs of last season, he is still playing well IMO. Yesterday, he tried really hard, was out best attacking option but got absolutely no support whatsoever from Rooney, tevez and park. He was getting brutalized by the Villa defenders and the Villa fans were jeering him throughout. I agree he acted like a prat reacting to them, but hey he is human. How many times has Rooney gotten himself sent off in his Red Mist? What about Scholes against the pile last year? nani against westham? The whining is a part of his game, why cant we live with that, as long as he keeps performing on the pitch?
November 23rd, 2008 at 16:33
@Matthew:
Arshavin would be a great addition, but from what I can gather, he is an even bigger primadona than the Slave, and the investment would be a big risk. If the rumors about the Serb kids are true, then they might get the nod, but looking at Fergie’s recent tactics, the kids might end up playing second fiddle to Park and Giggs and eventually get snapped up by someone else.
November 23rd, 2008 at 16:53
Guys, lets not talk about all this stuff of how many wingers in the world who score 10 goals a season. Ask yourself how many wingers are given the freedom that Ronaldo is given? As a winger, you are suppossed to help your full back when you team losses possesion, Ronaldo is saved of that burden, he’s given the licence to always move upfront. And in any case lets remember that he’s a winger who’s always used as a support striker.
Ok, fact, he scores goals for us. But of all those how many are individual goals and how many has he scored because of individual brilliance from he’s team mates say Berba, i guess the latter are many. Now that shows he doesnt stand alone and therefore he should behave as though he’s an island.
All for all those saying the Welbecks should have come in instead of Giggs and blah blah. Do you think that those United kids are better than Wenger’s kids? People lets call a spade a spade, our kids cant fit in Wenger’s kids shoes, but do you know why Wenger’s kids are loosing? they lack experience and maturity. With a highly competitive and contancious game like yesterday’s, you dont want to se SAF make the proffesor’s mistakes and bring in kids whose tempers and frustration are going to explode after being suffocated by a determined Villa. And do you what? No you dont! We would even loose the 1 point we went home with.
November 23rd, 2008 at 16:59
Guys, lets not talk about all this stuff of how many wingers in the world who score 10 goals a season. Ask yourself, how many wingers are given the freedom that Ronaldo is given? As a winger, you are suppossed to help your full back in defending when youe team losses possession, Ronaldo is saved of that burden, he’s given the licence to always move upfront. And in any case lets remember that he’s a winger who’s always used as a support striker.
Ok, fact, he scores loads of goals for us. But out of all those goals, how many are individual goals, and how many has he scored because of individual brilliance from his team mates say Berba, i guess the latter are many. Now that shows he doesnt stand alone and therefore he should behave as though he’s an island.
And for all those saying that Welbeck should have come in for Giggs and blah blah. Do you think that those United kids are better than Wenger’s kids? People lets call a spade a spade, our kids cant fit in the shoes of Wenger’s kids, but do you know why Wenger’s kids are loosing? they lack experience and maturity. With a highly competitive and contancious game like yesterday’s, you dont want to se SAF make the proffesor’s mistakes and bring in kids whose tempers and frustration are going to explode after being suffocated by a determined Villa. And do you know what? No you dont! We would even loose the 1 point we went home with.
November 23rd, 2008 at 17:01
@Vivek: eh Rooney has been sent off the same amount of times for United as Ronaldo has. Only his was for 2 yellows and not a straight red. Rooney got sent off against Villareal and Ronaldo got sent off against Pompey.
November 23rd, 2008 at 17:08
@ edi. The difference with last season is that the team gave us something to smile about and the football we were playing and goals scored gave us belief. Not this time though. We look a pale shadow of last season. I am trying to keep faith but it keeps on weaning every week. I dont like getting encouragement when other teams drop points. I want the hope to come from ourselves and that includes playing football that makes us believe.doesnt matter that we are playing tough away fixtures.the team looks like its regressing and the development of both anderson and nani worries me a lot
November 23rd, 2008 at 17:16
@Jay Jay: that is also completely true. Last season Tevez and Rooney did all the donkey work and this season I’ve noticed that Nani only ever crosses it to Ronaldo. Rooney or somebody else could be clean through or in front of the defender the high ball/through pass only goes to 1 player
November 23rd, 2008 at 17:23
@Jay Jay: “Do you think that those United kids are better than Wenger’s kids? “
Are you serious? He has Vela, Wilshire, Ramsay and who else? We have Anderson, Possebon, the twins, Campbell and Welbeck. Dont fall into the media hype over the “young gunners” even Sites like Arseblog are admitting the young ones arent that good.
They might have above average youngsters, but our cream is way better than theres.
November 23rd, 2008 at 17:38
I agree Scott-the-Red and Liam.
Ronaldo’s behaviour is getting worse by the day. We all know he’s a spoilt brat, but that doesn’t mean we can excuse his behaviour yesterday. He seems desperate to prove he’s no:1 and now opposing players know that kicking him harder is only gonna make him lose control. I won’t be surprised if he gets a red card one of these days. Oh, and if it was Rooney who was talking back to the fans yesterday? There would be a truckload of people in here who would be screaming at him. All he had to do was kiss the badge at Goodison Park and people blame him for the 1-1 draw!
Bottomline: Just cos Ronaldo’s our most effective player currently doesn’t give him immunity in anyway. There’s absolutely no problem in slating him for acting this way.
November 23rd, 2008 at 17:49
My hopes are being squashed every fecking matchday! I can’t see much into the future.. but all that I can see now is “just a yellow lemon tree” in for us this year!!
@Jay Jay: Spare us the ignominy of comparison with Arsenal kids.
November 23rd, 2008 at 18:06
I really dont think that the manhcester united of last year would have drawn and i dont think that the cristiano ronaldo of last year would have made those gestures. when ronaldo has a bad day it seems like united jave a bad day. im sorry but it seems like manchester united have done what they have been threatening to do for 3 seasons – become a one man team.
November 23rd, 2008 at 18:19
@Liam:
Yes, the point is that both can act like spoilt brats, does not make any less of a player does it?
November 23rd, 2008 at 18:27
Look, I’m not in any way excusing Ronnie’s behaviour yesterday. He was way off line making those gestures, and he should be slated for that. But does that gesture mean he is not happy at United? Did he give out any interviews after the game that he wants to leave? His work ethic was fantastic yesterday, he just kept going even after being kicked around.
The point I’m trying to make is that slate his all you like for his off field excursions, but just the amount of hate directed here towards him brings to light a more deep lying hate that many United fans still harbor, that IMO is totally disproportionate to yesterday’s incident and I think that this is a fall out of the summer fiasco rather than just that incident yesterday
November 23rd, 2008 at 18:34
Let me chip in on the Ron debate. I do agree that he whines more as compared to last year and for me its irritating. I will never doubt his skills as a player but he’s behaviour for me this season is more irritating than it is terrible.being a superstar and saving our skin last season doesnt make him immune to criticism. people criticise rooney tevez and i think ron should also have his share.not just for the sake of it, its because his action deserve it.
November 23rd, 2008 at 18:39
Meant to say tolerable and not terrible
November 23rd, 2008 at 18:45
@Matthew: This is not football manager.
Ribery, yes we could get him, but only for 50million. He’s that important to Bayern – their best player and has perhaps the best personality I’ve ever seen in a football player. Basically you could say that Ribery is to Bayern what Ronaldo is to us.
And we actually don’t really need other players at other positions. We’ve got options everywhere on the pitch, only the fact is that SAF is reluctant to play his talented young reservists.
November 23rd, 2008 at 18:55
NicoQB, listen mate im not the kind of guy who is always saying sign him and sign him because we rarely guess right who we are getting anyway and i always tire when i hear people say we shud sign kaka, messi and the like. In some of my earlier messages i was getting sick of people saying buy kaka, so i recommended lesser players that im pretty sure no one else even mentioned like geovanni from hull and a couple of italians whom i rate. If i didnt state it i meant to, but what i meant was if we sold ronaldo i wud like to see ribery, i was not saying to sign him and have him as a 2nd choice as he would be now. The fact is when ronaldo leaves we need to replace him with a world class player, not a young player who will grow to be world class, but an already world class player and ribery fits that bill and wud be who i wanted all summer when i thought he wud leave.
November 23rd, 2008 at 19:54
yeah but the thing is I don’t think Ronaldo has been playing that well recently. The amount of times yesterday that he lost the ball was unreal. I mean is it so hard to pass the ball 5 yards to a teammate instead of running into 2 or 3 players? Also when he did try to pass it went straight to a Villa player. Also apart from the 2 free kicks against Stoke he was extremely wasteful. He has these types of games quite often and since most of our attacks go through him it brings the team down. It’s the same as when we had RVN
November 23rd, 2008 at 20:00
Fuck me what is this Fabiano is now a better player than Ronnie, and all our success has been down to a CQ?
We won a few cups without CQ and er Ronnie is still one if not the best player in the world, a point away against Villa is a decent result.
November 23rd, 2008 at 20:03
@Jay Jay:
Ok let me reply to your comment one by one:
1. Regarding my lack of tactical nous, there’s no need to doubt it. I don’t have any.
It probably explains why I have little else to do here other than engage in lazy chatter about tactics. So yes, I may not have the best tactical brain around. But, I do think I saw things were a little strange yesterday. More importantly I want to correct some other assumptions you made of me.
2. I didn’t make scape goats of any player in particular — if you read my article you’ll see that. But Ryan Giggs was distinctly average. And I don’t just slate Ryan Giggs for the heck of it. Again, if you read my posts from the past, you will notice that I don’t just slate any United player out of impulse. It’s just not in my nature. Giggs has had a few good games this season in central midfield but yesterday was not it. He needs two things right now: a genuine ball winner alongside him to do the running, and getting about 60-70′ on the clock before being subbed off for fresher legs — it’s his age, not a knock on his abilities.
3. Regarding Carrick’s shooting skills, when did he really have much to talk about? He’s score 7 goals for us since 2006. Enough said.
4. About bringing on Welbeck, I was referring to bringing him on instead of Tevez. What did we have to lose anyway? Tevez was getting nowhere near the area, and Friedel was hardly troubled.
5. Carrick or Giggs can function well when they have space. This can be afforded to them if they have someone like Hargreaves or Fletcher to do the running. Against a high work rate midfield three that Villa had, it wasn’t going to be easy.
November 23rd, 2008 at 20:04
@tinker: Totally agree. That was a penalty but it should have been whistled down even before it got in the box thus making it a free kick. How the referee could not see the blatant desperate shirt pulling by Vida is beyond me. In fact I am getting sick and tired of the League’s permissive policy of hands on a player or shirt pulling, especially in the box. It’s wrong and ruins the game.
November 23rd, 2008 at 20:08
Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Villa, Everton, Portsmouth and Blackburn away so far, City and Spurs still coming up. If United are still within six points by Christmas, we have a good shot at a third consecutive title. Despite this insane away schedule, I still feel we dropped too many points needlessly. We could have been tied or within striking distance of Chelsea and Liverpool with most of the tough away fixtures out of the way. If we’re not within striking distance by the end of January, I say it’s time to properly bleed some youngsters (and maybe a new winger). Throw them in the deep end and see if they swim. It’ll tell Fergie whether he can rely on the likes of Evans, the Da Silvas, Possebon and Welbeck to consistently provide quality cover next season or not. Foster (still a youngster in GK terms)especially needs a run of games as I don’t feel VDS has another season at the highest level in him. Fergie needs to find out if he’s ready to take over the number one spot and the only way to do that is to play him week in week out. Better find out during the second half of a PL campaign that’s as good as lost than at the start of the next one. Kuzasck is a great shot stopper and decent back up but I don’t think he commands his area well enough to be the first pick GK for a team like United.
As for yesterday, Chelsea and Liverpool gave United a golden opportunity to close the gap to six points with a game in hand and we failed to take it. I don’t think Fergie’s tactics were that bad to start the game. The only thing wrong IMO was Giggs in a two man central midfield. He simply doesn’t have the legs to keep up with a three man Villa midfield anymore. He was invisible for the majority of the game. I think Anderson got more touches on the ball than he did in the second half. This is not meant as a cheap shot, he will always be a legend and I think he still has a lot to offer to this team. Just not as a CMF in a two-man central midfield against a fairly strong team. Ronaldo tried but was obviously tired. Pointless friendlies months before significant games are bad enough, but whoever thought that it would be a good idea to fly halfway across the world for a meaningless midweek friendly is a complete and utter moron. There’s plenty of quality sides one or two hours away without the jetlag. Play them FFS. That being said, his behaviour after the game was ridiculous. Still, he’s the best player in the world (him and Messi are in a league of their own, I’m quietly hoping for a legendary rivalry in the years to come
, it’s easy to forget they should have their best years ahead of them) and if anyone can keep that massive ego of his somewhat in check it’s Fergie. Park had a good game, but he lacks the ability and creativity to be a regular starter. He has a lot of heart and a fantastic workrate and you need players like that in certain games, but yesterday wasn’t such a game. It was obvious that the primary focus of 10 Villa players was their defensive tasks. After last year’s thumping O’Neill had his team set up to keep a clean sheet. Fergie can’t predict that, but he can react to it. We had 63% possession but most of it in our own half. None of the substitutions made were an attempt to move the game further upfield. Anderson should have been brought on sooner which would have given Carrick more freedom to roam, Nani should have come in for either the injured Ronaldo or Park and Manucho or Welbeck for Tevez. Welbeck because his confidence is probably sky high right now or Manucho because it would have given us a physical presence in the box that could have made Nani’s crosses a lot more useful.
The quality is definitely there (even with the injuries in midfield), I just think we lost something when CQ left. I could be wrong, but Phelan doesn’t seem to complement Fergie the way CQ did. A new, tactically stronger number two would be pretty high on my list of priorities if I were Fergie. Someone who is also able to relate to the Latin players in the squad would be a nice added bonus.
November 23rd, 2008 at 20:11
And one word about Ronnie. I think, people are mixing up his attitude/big headedness with actual performance as a player. People are dismissing his contributions to United last season and attributing it to donkey work by Rooney and Tevez — all because of what happened in the summer. I have been extremely critical of Ronaldo’s attitude in the summer, and his recent behaviour, but I haven’t lost sight of him as a player. He is extremely valuable to us, although injury has not allowed him to have the impact that we were so used to from him.
Expectations of him playing “out of his skin” to atone for the summer is far too unrealistic. So what is “out of his skin” then, considering he scored 42 goals as a winger? 3 goals a game? Ridiculous.
It’s nice to see how people defend their favourite players with a passion, but yet, allow that favouritism to descend into partisanship with a — “my player is better than your favourite player” / “your favourite player plain sucks, and is not patch on mine”. This is the same club that plays in Red and White that we’re talking about, aren’t we?
November 23rd, 2008 at 20:15
Traverse good comment.
I am really angry to see so many idiotic fans going against Ronaldo. He is by far our best player, so can you just STFU!!! Without him we will become a mid table team. I have said many times, that players who perform should be given some space. Think about Contana. He had embarrassed us far too many times himself, but none of us remembers that and we hail him as “The King”. Haven’t you ever heard the “Nobody judges winners”.
On a game, poor performance and our 60 mil strike force is by far the most pathetic one in the EPL. I mean think about it, at least half of the teams in EPL have strikers, that we would have traded with ours and this two are by far the most expensive duet LOL. Just a laughing stock, is all I can say.
November 23rd, 2008 at 20:18
@Jay Jay: At least Wenger’s kids are being a fair chance to show what they have and establish themselves and build confidence. A fresh Welbeck would have been a smart move when Ronaldo came off. A young striker is not going to lose the game for us at 0-0. But he could have that one moment of luck or just the space that is created from fresh legs and youth to win the game for us. Fergie’s substitutions and the manner in which they were made are confusing and perplexing. Nani should have come on for Ronaldo and Anderson for Giggs while Welbeck should have replaced Tevez. Straight position for position instead of moving a limping and hurting Ronaldo inside. I think he risked Ronaldo’s health way too much after the 50th minute when he was clearly hurting. Mindless stuff considering we are totally screwed without him.
Fergie has become a mass of confusion this year and I am starting to slowly wonder if retirement isn’t a bad idea. He is managing with tactical ineptness and has shown a side of himself that is shocking. He is managing with caution and fear. Much more than the past. We were 11-0 at Villa Park in the past eleven years and we went in there and played a slow cautious defensive game. We still should have won it but the fact that we played the negative style in the process really is disturbing to me. In fact I have been highly critical of his tactics since last season’s loss at Stamford Bridge. Since then I have seen a chicken shit style of managing which has me fuming and confused. Yes we won the League and defeated Barca at the Nou Camp using the system and then hung on to beat Chelsea in Moscow but what we did the final month of the season was far from perfect and butt ugly. And nothing has changed since. Where did the fast free flowing attractive Samba football go? Where has the team’s confidence and arrogance gone? Instead we hang around wondering what is wrong with Ronaldo when he rightfully berates Villa fans who were abusing him. Why are we not supporting him more (He is #1) and question the Gaffer for his mistakes and brutal way of sacrificing his players for this negative and ultra defensive style that he seems to find so rewarding. I cannot fathom the 1994 or 1999 clubs ever falling into this style of play and literally boring us all to tears. What the fuck is wrong with you Fergie? Wake the fuck up!
November 23rd, 2008 at 20:19
@RDY: That mate is total rubbish, how do you know what relationship Fergie has with Phealan or what he had with CQ? And to relate with the Latin players WTF??? They are honoured to player for our club simple, if they need someone to relate to then they cn fuck off in my view. Fergie is the manager he makes the decisions, some right some wrong, I agree his subs are odd, and this my player is better than yours and we need CQ back or we fucked attitude is absolute shit, we won a few tophies without himm, who seems to use us an axes to better things, jeez have some faith boys, champions of England champions of Europe!!
November 23rd, 2008 at 20:20
PS: I don’t think a point away at Villa park is a bad result. Unless Arsenal significantly strenghten their central midfield and defense in January, I can see Villa knocking them out of the top four this season. They have a quality squad and a quality manager.
November 23rd, 2008 at 20:25
@antsBoy: Who was he showing the #1 sign to? Bloody abusive Villa fans. If Cantona had done that we would all be praising him because he was so beloved. But because of this pasty Summer Ronaldo cannot get a bloody break from the lot of you. A smile to the camera by Ronaldo is misconstrued as arrogant or insulting by all of you. Nothing he does is right. he scores a brilliant goal and all of you bitch about his lack of joy or his ignorance of the fans. All of you have some kind of grudge against him or you have become painfully unfair and judgmental. Or is it because you have all become so incredibly needy that a stranger making millions more than all of you just rubs you the wrong way if he has more of a problem showing humility? For God sakes, let him be. Lets not forget he is one of our own and the single most important reason why we are the European champions as well as two time running EPL champs. He is the straw that stirs the drink and he is getting no respect but above all, he is getting no love. Regarding last Summer, FORGIVE and FORGET. Ronaldo needs our support, not our continually nagging criticism over his personality defects. God we have all become a bunch judgmental housewives at a church luncheon. Pathetic.
November 23rd, 2008 at 20:28
@NicoQB: The only chance of getting Ribery would be if he was unhappy at Bayern and wanted to leave. And even then he has always stated his next destination would be Italy. Bayern loves him and he loves playing for Bayern. Besides, we don’t have the money to buy him. Not with our present ownership. Arshavin on the other hand can be had if the hierarchy at the club had the need vision and intelligence to realize that he is truly the missing link. But I now know they are clueless.
November 23rd, 2008 at 20:30
Stephen:
I never said we needed CQ specifically back or that it’s impossible to win trophies without him. As I said in my previous post, given the fixtures already behind us I don’t think we’re in that bad of a position for the title. I don’t think CQ is coming back unless he’s guaranteed the no.1 spot when Fergie retires and given his track record as head manager I don’t think that would be a good idea. The substitutions this season have been odd to say the least. Again, it’s just the opinion of a fan with absolutely no managerial experience, but I put it down to tactical reading during the game. Why else would you move a Ronaldo who obviously wasn’t playing at 100% to a position he’s not used to when you’ve got two perfectly fit, natural strikers sitting on the bench?
November 23rd, 2008 at 20:33
@RDY: 42 goals last seaon might be the awnser to that question, and Welbeck is 17 and has next to no experience.
November 23rd, 2008 at 20:36
@Orez: just like we were going to be a mid-table team without RVN to score our goals and Keane to lead us? The amazing Berbatov is going to be our lead the line striker isn’t he? I’m sure Manucho will step up and prove that he was better than Rooney all along
. But seriously I think we would be ok without Ronaldo if SAF signs the right replacement and doesn’t try to rebuild the side
November 23rd, 2008 at 20:36
@Grognard: While I do have a problem if people mix their assumptions about Ronaldo, the person, with Ronaldo, the player, what’s wrong in criticizing him for some clearly bird brained talk about how he’s the best in the world? Just because people share a different opinion of him as a person does not make it pathetic.
I love him as a player, but I think his attitude stinks. When Ronaldo reacts to the crowd he doesn’t win. He just confirms that that crowd have managed to rile him up. The only way players can shut a crowd up is by scoring/winning. If not, they are better served by ignoring fans.
November 23rd, 2008 at 20:39
@Red Ranter: Now that is all that I have been saying mate. I totally agree with you and the only difference between what I have been saying and how you so eloquently put things is my emotion and passion on the subject. People seem to forget how down I was on Ronaldo during the Summer. I was the one coining the term “he’s dead to me” and even now he is on my infamous “double secret probation”.
Therefore, it should be noted that my defense of him now must have some very serious validity considering my dislike for him just four months ago.
People need to separate their personal feelings of last Summer with the present play of Ronaldo. Putting unrealistic expectations upon him and asking him to change his entire personality as a sense of penance for his past sins is just wrong and unrealistically juvenile. So I totally agree with your statements. I just wish and pray that we all come to our senses soon before we make life so unlivable for the lad in Manchester that he demands a move to Spain to get away from all the unfair abuse. To not support and back him after Villa fans abused him is shameful and completely disappointing. We are betraying one of our own. Nobody came down on Cantona as bad for kicking a spectator and being suspended for a season. Ronaldo on the other hand is playing his heart out for us and he gets zero respect. love or appreciation. And it truly is exasperating at best.
November 23rd, 2008 at 20:40
@Red Ranter: The were calling him a lady boy cheat, I can understand his frustrations especially as Reo Coker and Sidwell were kicking lumps out of him all game.
November 23rd, 2008 at 20:40
@Liam: Signing an able replacement is easier said than done. But then, considering most of your posts, are centred around defending Rooney at any cost — justified or unjustified — I’ll give it a pass trying to convince you of Ronaldo’s importance as a player.
November 23rd, 2008 at 20:41
@Grognard: Calling Fergie clueless dor not signing Arshavin is a little harsh I would say.
November 23rd, 2008 at 20:46
@Grognard:
We disagree on a major point though: you think Ronaldo bigging up himself is justified, I don’t. Other than that as a player, he’s miles ahead of most in the world today — with which we agree.
However with your passionate defence of Ronaldo, I still find it hard to see you not feel any sort of empathy for those still holding a grudge. I mean your comments make it sound like you could never imagine having a grudge against him. I am just asking for a bit of perspective here — of understanding the feelings of those who may still harbour ill feelings over his personality.
November 23rd, 2008 at 20:47
True, but as I said, he was trying but was obviously not at the top of his game yesterday. Most of those 42 goals also came from a free role on the wing, cutting inside, not playing as a CF. You can’t just drop him in a position that doesn’t come natural to him (yet?) after a midweek roundtrip to South America and being roughed up the entire game by Villa and then expect him to save the day. He’s the best player in the world, but he’s not superman. Welbeck is still very young and Manucho is still very rough from what I hear, but I bet they would’ve weighed more on the Villa defense than Tevez (not to knock him, he’s quality, just zero confidence right now) had they come in for those last twenty minutes.
November 23rd, 2008 at 20:47
@Red Ranter: I don’t like his attitude either but I truly believe a lot of that stuff is said tongue and cheek and much of it is taken out of context. He is a confident lad and that arrogance motivates him and pushes him to play hard and improve. I for one welcome it if he makes us win. We are wrong to inflict our own personalities and personal demands on a player who has done so much for all of us. We are acting more spoilt than he is. Who are we to tell him how he should act? He more than pays us back with his performances. We need to lay off of him and get off his back over silliness. He hasn’t kicked at an opponent player, spit in anyone’s face or shown the finger to the OT faithful. So what exactly has he done wrong? Nothing other than pay for his mistake in the Summer. We have become a bitter, malingering and brutally unforgiving society where our hypocritical expectations of public persons has become an epidemic in extreme repression and socialist in nature. Let him be. He has passion and comes from a different culture and background than most of us. He has a right to express himself as he pleases without all of us berating him and placing judgment on him like we are a bunch of sinless saints. It’s a total joke and I for one am on a crusade to knock some common sense and fairness in our supporters and reestablish faith and fairness towards our finest player.
November 23rd, 2008 at 20:50
@Stephen: Let me make it clear. I didn’t think Rooney was particularly smart when he kissed his badge in Everton, and I certainly thought Ronaldo was immature when he showed the finger to Benfica fans when we got knocked out in that 05/06 CL campaign. Yesterday was no different either — more so following his interview about him being the bestestest thing since the invention of wheel.
I am not a fan of players reacting to fans in words/gestures. Especially when things aren’t going right. It’s shows up a player’s level of frustration at being out manoeuvered and gives the opposition a lift.
November 23rd, 2008 at 20:51
@Matthew: Oh alright, I didn’t get your point.
But what I meant was that Ribery is one player who would be near impossible to sign.
Considering I live in a french speaking country and get all french highlights, just before we signed Nani, I sincerely hoping that we could get Ribery. I was extremely disappointed that Fergie didn’t seem interested in Ribery, but in the end I grew to appreciate Nani. He’s no Ribery, especially considering how inconsistent he can be.
In the end I’ll settle for David Villa, should Ronnie leave. I’m not sure if there’s any chance of signing him, but I agree on the fact of signing a new winger, should Ronnie leacve, as wingers are one kind of player position we don’t have backup for in the reserves…
November 23rd, 2008 at 20:52
@RDY: A position that is not natural to him, is irelavent, he is a goal scoreer and that is a natural act, like a force of nature.
Manucho is not ready, he can control the ball further than I can kick it, and Welbeck has scored one goal, good goal but it could have also not gone in and gone high and wide, we should have left Tevez on, his confidence is low and now will be lower.
November 23rd, 2008 at 20:52
@Stephen: There you go. If they were screaming that to me I might be insane and frustrated enough after being physically mugged all night on the pitch to leap into the stands and show them how little of a ladyboy I am. He doesn’t need that shit. His gesture under the circumstances was fine. Hell, I wouldn’t have shown them that I was number one. I would flipped them the middle finger and told them to go fuck their mothers. And most of us would have done the same too. yet we demand so much from this boy and why? Because he had a moment of selfish greed and stupidity in the Summer that we just cannot leave him alone for. Yet we will be so upset if he refuses to extend his contract in the future and then we will wonder and be totally befuddled as to why he doesn’t want to stay with us. Liek we just welcomed him back with open arms and showed him the kind of love he would never find anywhere else. There is stupidity, and there’s being a total wanker.
November 23rd, 2008 at 20:54
@Grognard: If you are on a crusade good luck. But then aren’t you going to end up telling people how to behave and think? Shouldn’t we let others make up their mind for themselves, instead of telling them how to think?
This is my only question to you which instigated the whole debate with you yesterday in the first place. Respect for other people’s opinion regardless of the situation is what you’d want wouldn’t you? And now you brand those that bash him as total wankers. I think I am missing something.
November 23rd, 2008 at 20:54
@Red Ranter: Its called emotion mate, the Villa fans were really getting at him. I agree his comments in the week were embarassing, but lots of players gesture to fans once subbed, thats football ans passion.
November 23rd, 2008 at 20:57
@Stephen: Perhaps but that is what I feel. I am being honest and Fergie is looking more and more clueless or lacking the same passion and interest in the team that he has in the past. He is getting old and maybe he is finally starting to feel the fatigue of a long career in the game. He just seems to have lost a bit of his motivational game and intensity. And the fact that Arshavin is truly a great talent that is going to be available this January, the fact that he is not considering this player who is just what we need positionally and tactically, tells me that either he is wrong or he is totally tied financially. Sorry, but that is how I feel. I don’t really care id I’m being harsh. Everyone seems to be wasting so much energy berating our best player meanwhile, the Gaffer’s stupidity of late has not been questioned with nearly as much piss and vinegar. I say lets spread the criticism around more fairly and number one on my list right now is SAF.
November 23rd, 2008 at 20:57
@Stephen: As I said. Not a fan of such behaviour, unless it’s in kind — like scoring goals and such.
November 23rd, 2008 at 20:58
NicoQB, i know what u mean mate i was so pissed off when we missed out on ribery. I remember that summer i was so excited as we were linked with a move for him, mascherano and torres, man that wud have been so great but it was all just paper talk in the end. Oh well.
November 23rd, 2008 at 20:59
@Grognard: Arshavin is just not a Fergie signing is he? A 27 year old winger is just not the sort of player we go for, I feel a midfielder hardman is whats needed more.
November 23rd, 2008 at 21:00
@Red Ranter: We don’t want football to be serile or players showing no emotion, its already getting too much that way.
November 23rd, 2008 at 21:04
@Red Ranter: Perhaps I just have a different outlook on life with my most recent health problems mate. Life is too short to be fostering unrealistic and unjustified animosity towards a player who is still playing with your team and who is giving 100% effort. It’s unfair and it is completely unjustified. Hold grudges against those who truly harm you or who make your life truly miserable. To lay that kind of hate on a football player who is still playing his heart out for your team is truly pathetic to me and a complete enigma. No I can’t cut them some slack for their stubbornness and unfairness. It’s unjustified and it’s wrong. I don’t tolerate wrong. Hell my feelings towards Tevez, Anderson and most recently Fergie may be construed as wrong, and perhaps they are, but they come from my feeling about the game, not their personalities or their personal preferences. How Ronny acts is truly none of ours business. As long as he plays strong for us and cares about the team, I have no problem with him. The fact and most important element to consider here RR is that the boy mae a heartfelt apology 4 months ago for his poor judgment and mistakes regarding Real Madrid. And for those who decide they want to ignore that and carry a grudge, that’s fine do so, but don’t expect me to tolerate or not to throw it back in their collective faces because it’s bloody well wrong and and an injustice. Sorry but that is what I feel. How about a little loyalty towards Ronaldo for a change?
November 23rd, 2008 at 21:08
@Stephen: Haha true (like the force of nature analogy) but Villa was playing very close to their goal. He didn’t have the room to run at defenders like he usually does on the wing, and as I said, yesterday was definitely not Ronaldo’s night. He let the knocks from the defenders and taunts from the crowd get to him and it affected his game. I’m expecting him to put in one hell of a performance next week or against Villareal to make up for it. His bruised ego will make sure of that
.
I actually agree with you on Tevez, I probably wouldn’t have taken him off. I thought he was actually growing a bit in the game, nothing spectacular but the ball wasn’t jumping of his feet anymore and his (admittedly simple) passes were actually arriving. That being said, Fergie did sub him, I just thought it was a mistake to take of a striker for a winger and move a winger (no matter how good he is) into a striker position.
November 23rd, 2008 at 21:10
@RDY: I agree taking off a striker when you are trying to win a game is er well odd to say the least!!
November 23rd, 2008 at 21:10
u@Red Ranter: I understand he is an important player, he is the most important individual on the team. But individuals don’t win trophies, ask City and Liverpool. If he isn’t going to be part of a team effort then I think we’d be better off buying a top class Striker or attacking mid along with the winger to directly replace him. We would become more team oriented instead of just giving it to Ronaldo and hoping he’s having a good day
November 23rd, 2008 at 21:11
@Red Ranter: I don’t know, I personally felt an incredible rush of pride when Rooney kissed the badge in front of his pervious club’s supporters. It made me feel pride and exhilaration that he so loved our team that he put the sword to his previous club’s supporters. I wanted to hug him when he did that. Maybe I come from a different culture but those types of emotions are second nature in North America and they are often loved, not just tolerated. Honest to God, what the Hell is the big deal. Need I mention how many times baseball, football and hockey players have lifted the middle finger to opposing fans in North America? It’s no big deal. If anything it fuels rivalry which is a good thing. I’m sorry but I come from a culture where a rivalry is a form of war. Anything goes as long as violence is not included. It goes part and parcel with the emotions of the game. To cut off players attempts to show emotion without violence is just wrong and almost cruel.
I don’t get this fair play and PC mentality, sorry. He broke no rules, fouled nobody, threw nothing at anyone. He kissed his club badge. What a sin?
November 23rd, 2008 at 21:14
@Grognard: I agree he fucking cares which a lot of footballers these days don’t, I wouldn’t swap that for anything.
November 23rd, 2008 at 21:14
@Red Ranter: I’m just voicing n opinion and hoping to open up some people’s minds by looking at things from my perspective. How they proceed after that is up to them. At least I tried to make people see things differently and to be fair to the lad. After that there is nothing more I can do. If they still want to abuse him and be critical of him, that is their right. I just decided to be a voice of reason in this situation.
November 23rd, 2008 at 21:17
@Grognard: Fine. Tell them what you think about the player. But if you tell them how to think, then you open yourself a can of worms. If you’re prepared to then be told off harshly for what others might think to be wrong/unreasonable of you in future, then I don’t want a lecture on free speech. Deal?
November 23rd, 2008 at 21:20
@Grognard: and @Stephen: Yes, it’s a difference in culture/approach to sports, I suppose. I am not especially a fan of badge kissing. But again, whatever floats your boat. My argument has been framed based on what I think of player behaviour, and has been consistent. So I guess we agree to disagree here.
November 23rd, 2008 at 21:21
@johnsom33: johnson, i dont believe in media hype, but if you are to include Anderson in the kids, then i guess you shouldn’t forget talking about Walcot, Denilson, Hoyte and for God’s sake the Arse’s average age is 21 and our average age is 27 cant you compare and contrast.
Do you think Welbeck or Campbell is better than the likes of Guiseppi Rossi, Richardson, Luke Chadwick, David Bellion, for the youngsters and Juan Veron, Kleberson and Forlan for the old ones. But what we want from them is, do they have the mantle to compete and produce results under the pressure and competition in Man Utd.
I can assure you that 70% of the Arse’s started wont feature in Utd’s starting eleven not because they arent skilled but because SAF has been long in the game to know that it not skill all that wins matches and trophies but many other flavours that come with being out there in the dug out for some good number of years.
November 23rd, 2008 at 21:23
@Red Ranter: If people are wrong, it is the responsibility of others to attempt to correct them. And although that may seem holier than thou, I do believe that my words speak of justice and fairness and I will not apologize for trying to CONVINCE, not make people treat one of our own with more fairness and a bit of love. I am pleading here like Barrack Obama, not ordering and enforcing. It’s a crusade but it’s a just crusade and I challenge anyone to tell me that what I am saying is wrong. Trying to convince people to not be racist, or violent or careless is condoned in society. So what exactly am I doing that is so wrong when I am trying to convince supporter of our club to be more fair and just towards one of our own? Nothing. But how they take it and whet they do with my little sermons is up to them. I have done all I can do for Ronny. I just felt the lad needed a voice of support on this blog that I wasn’t reading. One that could put personal feelings about the player aside and be objective and fair towards him. And for that I again refuse to apologize for. You may think I am telling people how to think where in reality I am pleading with their moral compass and sense of fairness and objectivity to see things as they are or should be. Hell I’m the one who is always being accused of being negative and the harbinger of darkness. Here I am trying to open up people’s hearts and minds and trying to convince them to show some positiveness and love. I can’t win.
November 23rd, 2008 at 21:24
@Jay Jay: If you read the Arsenal blogs now, Hoyte and Denilson are very average players in comparison to Anderson.
November 23rd, 2008 at 21:26
@Red Ranter: So is Anderson at the moment.
November 23rd, 2008 at 21:28
@Stephen: Perhaps but 27 isn’t exactly senile and this team needs some experience with craftiness. Arshavin isn’t just a winger. He can play equally well across the midfield and can also play the supporting striker role. Some of his best games have been as an AMF. I think we need to be patient and see what happens to Hargreaves before we spend on a defensive midfielder. Personally I think our attack and linkage from defenders to attackers is in deep shite. We need attacking midfield players in the middle and one on the left side because Giggs and Park are not the answer and Nani has yet to blossom into the player we were counting on. Arshavin fills all those roles.
November 23rd, 2008 at 21:29
@Grognard: You can’t win? Yes you can!
But that’s the baggage that comes with being one of the most vocal and controversial commenters. You will be dissected, and I’m sure you are aware of that. It’s your cross to bear.
Pleading doesn’t come attached with the words “it’s pathetic” though. But I’ll let this lie. I am not entirely convinced but I hope you’re getting my point here.
November 23rd, 2008 at 21:30
@Stephen: He’s better than Denilson. My point is, that some of the Arsenal youngsters are given far too much credit than they really deserve.
November 23rd, 2008 at 21:30
@Grognard: I agree, but personally I think Hargo is finnished, I hope not because he is superb but thats me.
November 23rd, 2008 at 21:32
@Stephen: Too true. He cares and above all he delivers. Rooney may care, Tevez may care but do they deliver as regularly as he does? NO. In fact I kind of get perplexed at Tevez’ increasing frustration and dissatisfaction when he get subbed off. Sure it’s normal to feel unhappy but he is showing a resentment towards the boss there despite the fact that he played like shit. But nobody says anything about his bad attitude. Instead we carry a four month old grudge against our best player who busted his ass out there and got beat up trying to do his best. Just sickens me.
November 23rd, 2008 at 21:32
@Red Ranter: He wasn’t the other week, but I agree, Arsenal and Wenger as a manager is very overated.
November 23rd, 2008 at 21:34
@Stephen: Oh trust me mate. Even an average Anderson was better than Denilson. His lack of physicality in midfield is part of the reason why Cesc has been poor, and Arsenal in general are being bypassed so easily in midfield. He might turn out ok, but at the moment too much is being asked of him.
November 23rd, 2008 at 21:37
@Grognard: Good point, there are people who seem obsessed about how valued he is to us, £35m not for me, I still see Huntelaar would give us something we lack a natural goalscorer and in ganes like yesterday we need that option, and no Manucho certainly isn’t that option.
November 23rd, 2008 at 21:37
@Red Ranter: I’m offering them a different perspective and how thye should look at things. That’s not so blatantly telling them how to think. It’s offering them alternative ways of thinking. How they choose to think after I have tried to make them see things is completely up to them. I am not taking away their right mate. This is why I get frustrated with you because you just don’t seem to get it. Trying to get others to see something differently is not wrong. I’m not forcing them, I’m informing them. They have complete freedom to accept or deny my attempts to expand their thinking or outlook on the subject. As if that kind of thing isn’t being done to us 24/7 every day of our lives. Don’t buy this cell phone, but this one, that burger is not as good as this burger. All I am doing is selling a way of thinking that I think is right. I am not forcing it down anyones throat. They can choose to accept it or chuck it in the toilet. At least I made my pitch.
November 23rd, 2008 at 21:38
@Red Ranter: I agree certainly mate but is Anderson playing well, certainly not and hasn’t since last Xmas.
November 23rd, 2008 at 21:39
@Grognard: I understand. But I think we can do this over email.
November 23rd, 2008 at 21:39
@Red Ranter: Who has told me off? Nobody. Why? Because nothing I said was abrasive or wrong. I made my case and then they can disagree with me but there is no need to be rude or fight back harshly because I was not harsh with them despite what you may think. I was stating fact and with complete proof and honesty. I think I presented my case strongly with proper respect.
November 23rd, 2008 at 21:40
@Red Ranter: I have no problem with that.
November 23rd, 2008 at 21:41
@Red Ranter: I am not the biggest Anderson fan but he is far better than Hoyte and Denilson combined. Many of Arsenal’s young players in fact are vastly overrated.
November 23rd, 2008 at 21:44
@Red Ranter: I’m getting your point but then again I speak from the heart and I use my mind too so I will take what is dished out at me as long as it’s never personal. I have never ever had a problem with people disagreeing with me. It’s when they start throwing abuse or curses that get me upset. Pathetic is not that bad a word. Quite a lot views we all have can be pathetic. Hell I am quite often field with pathetic bias and sentiment that I fully admit. One just needs to be true to themselves to avoid taking things wrong.
November 23rd, 2008 at 21:47
@Stephen: You may be right mate, but adding a DMF this season is not what we are missing. We need artistry and vision in the middle of the park, not Claude Makelele. I fail to see how that kind of player will enhance our sputtering offense. We need an AMF who has vision, finesse, passing ability and can even score a goal. We need either Arshavin, Diego or Marin.
November 23rd, 2008 at 21:50
@Stephen: As you probably know, I love Huntelaar but would he truly help us more knowing that we have very few players who know how to service him. A great striker is only as good as the service he receives. Our problem I feel is in two spots in the midfield. AMF and LMF. Fix those problems and we are on our way.
November 23rd, 2008 at 21:52
@Grognard: I like Gourcuff but thats me, I agree but we lack a leader someone like Keane to get involved and rough someone like Fabregas up, like Hargo or what Anderson should do bt he doesn’t.
The midfield is so important and I agree some artistry wouldn’t go a miss.
November 23rd, 2008 at 21:54
@Grognard: i kind of agree with you about SAF. i was watching the gaffer’s pre-match press conference on MUTV and i was what the fuck is this guy saying!!
O’neal and his boys were already fearing and SAF goes and starts narrating how O’neal has done a good job at villa park and how villa is going to break into the top four and play in the champions league next month blah blah not forgetting how they are going to give his team a game to remember. i mean what happened to his mind games? couldnt he see that that was increasing villas morale instead of lowering their morale so that they are good for a beating.
November 23rd, 2008 at 21:55
@Grognard: He would have tuck the chance Rooney has yesterday away.
Carrick should be our string puller and he is playing well, and Ronnie, Scholes and Nani should also do that job, sometimes games ans seasons go down to such tight margins and a natural goal scorer would help improve those margins more in our favour.
November 23rd, 2008 at 22:08
@Red Ranter: am not one on one comparing Ando and Denilson i was saying that if we bring Ando in the list of our kids, then why not include denilson and the likes the other end as well.
Anyway talk of hype… who’s not hyped in England. Is Anderson the next Ronaldhino we were deceived to see. Look at the team we fielded in the carling cup at OT the other day, they hardly could beat a team of a bunch of part timers! what kids are those you call the future of United when Wigan was being taken for a week by a relatively young and inexperienced arsenal team.
November 23rd, 2008 at 22:09
Grognard mate im kinda caught in 2 minds. Firstly im agreeing with u and thinking yes an arshavin or diego is exactly what we need. But then im stopping and im thinking back to the games against the arsenals, liverpools and everton games and im remembering how we had no physical enforcer type player to just break down their attacks. We cannot afford nor fit in an attacking and a defensive midfielder as our midfield is already over packed so it has to be 1 or the other. But i can see where ur coming from as say we buy a diarra or even a gattuso and hargreaves gets back to full fitness then we have 2 defensive midfielders and still no midfielder apart from ronaldo who can even hit 5 goals or more. I really dunno mate, maybe we shud just wait til the summer and evaluate then but it does sound like arshavin will be snapped up b4 then so i dunno. I hear madrid want him to replace ruud even tho they r nothing alike and arshavin wud not be any sort of replacement for the dutch man. Maybe wait to the summer, give hargreaves his last chance. Any more injuries and hes gone and we can then invest in a gattuso type player. I really like diego too so for me him or arshavin are the players for me, but like i said im stuck in 2 minds. Against arsenal we had all the best attacking talent on show but lost because we lacked a roy keane type player. Would arshavin have made the big difference that rooney, ronaldo and berbatov couldnt. Would essien or keane have made a difference in that game, thats a massive yes so u can see it seems more of a choice between the 2. In the end tho its up 2 the boss so our opinion doesnt matter.
November 23rd, 2008 at 22:12
Interesting facts about this extraordinary weekend of EPL ..
1) Top ten teams dint register a win…
2) Top five teams dint manage to score a goal…
Some week..huh?
and we are filthing about our team and our best player…
November 23rd, 2008 at 22:21
@Stephen: Finally some common sense on the Quieroz a$$ lickers…reading some comments on this blog, you’d think all Fergie did was talk to the press and had absolutely no contact at all with the players and just left everything to CQ. I guess its the usual knee- jerk reactions from the drama queens, if we go on a winning run and lets say Queiroz comes back and for some reason(not his fault) we go on a slump, the same fans will probably do a 180 and blame the teams form on his return from coaching Portugal having a negative influence on the team.
@Jay Jay: If these kids of Wenger’s are sooo good and are the next footballing goods, surely with the way his team are playing, Wenger would be wise enough to play them??? For all the praises about the Arsenal kids, the “less talented” United kids have probably played more important games and got more time on the field.
November 23rd, 2008 at 22:44
Did anyone catch the Q&A session with Fergie and the fans???
November 23rd, 2008 at 23:07
Sorry, but Im really bored. Not only because of yesterdays result, but the whole week in general. If you also feel bored, please check out this goal made by me on FIFA 09. And feel free to check out my other strikes too.
November 23rd, 2008 at 23:09
@Matthew: It’s not like we gave up a total of ten goals against Liverpool, Everton and Arsenal. In fact three goals were total flukes. Where we struggled against those teams was on the offensive side of things. We never established our class in the opposing third of the pitch. I think the need for an enforcer in this day and age is rather overrated. I think the most important aspect to success is skill on the ball and vision. An enforcer may break the other teams attack down but it does not really help that much in getting us more goals. Only skill, vision and an offensive frame of mind will do that.
Other than Keane, Hargreaves and Essien most of these defensive midfielders bore the living crap out of me and limit a team’s attack to a one dimensional counter attack because they are incapable of contributing offensively. The few like Keane, Hargo, Essien, De Rossi and Senna who also have enough ability to contribute offensively are extremely rare. Usually it makes me feel like with DMFers we are playing more of a 5-3-2 because all they do is defend. To score goals we need more vision and more forward emphasis from the center of our midfield. Our defense has not been as good as last year but it’s far from broken too. What is broken is our offense unless Ronaldo is at the end of the ball. Ask yourself this question, where would we be had Ronaldo still been out of our starting lineup. I kid you not when I say our lack of offensive punch would have us in the area of 8th or 9th place. We are clueless about how to break down a defense away from home. I have to go back a long time to remember our offense looking so bad and lacking in imagination, creativity and finish. Perhaps the weeks before Cantona showed up. Fergie has shown far too much patience and cool in this matter and although we shouldn’t panic, some screaming and motivating is necessary and a few smart moves in January would be more than welcome. Move number one, bring Frazer Campbell back and play him before Tevez. Buying Tosic is a good idea but we do need more.
November 23rd, 2008 at 23:12
@Shyam: The problem of course is that while Chelsea and Liverpool never scored, they remain 8 points ahead of us while we scored no goals in a park where we have won 11 in a row. We blew a fantastic opportunity keep our championship hopes alive. And although they are not dead, I hate to think that we are lumped with the other top 3 teams who never scored. Problem is, I always believed we were better than them. I now have serious doubts.
November 23rd, 2008 at 23:15
@RedDevilEddy: Nice goal mate. I scored one like that with Huntelaar a few weeks back. Those kind of goals are sweet and they often make you wish the real game was as beautiful as it can often be in a video game. Instead the game is marred with negative thinking, cheating and brainless officiating.
November 23rd, 2008 at 23:23
@Grognard: Thanks!
If you look at the bottom of the screem you will se that the official actually was going to blow for a free-kick. Thank God he didn`t.
November 23rd, 2008 at 23:25
@Grognard: You may also look at my other goals. They are to the right of the video. Ive got some slick goals there, I tell ya!
November 23rd, 2008 at 23:39
@ Groggy : When i start to go back and analyse where it all went wrong leads to me that it all started going wrong from the summer….First of all we dint get whatever we wanted in the summer..It seems a left winger was a necessity..
In the way which i analyse the game..it seems to me that Park is more of a central player than a winger and his role in PSV was of a CAM..His ability was to hussle and always stick the leg or neck out to all the knock downs his fellow tall forward provided him…kind of like Robbie keane..So he never was a winger at the first place..
One more thing that went wrong is we clearly destroyed the player called Tevez..some may not agree with that…but i have to say it. I have seen him playing for other teams and clubs..His confidence is at an all time low now..A third striker at United is not a bad thing for a player like Tevez but the playing time and the playing tactics he were put in from September does compel me to say that our team management just blew his confidence away..i could not believe it was Tevez who was doing all that shite against Villa yesterday..I hope mgmt helps him regain his confidence and make him understand his role..or else he has to go way for his good and teams good…
Team management need to sort out some tactics and personnels in the winter transfer and may be try some of our youngsters inthe latter part of the season..Some things need to change at Old trafford…somethings are wrong and still dont see it changing….atleast not yet..
November 23rd, 2008 at 23:43
We miss Queiroz.
November 23rd, 2008 at 23:45
Has Tevez become the new Shevchenko?
November 23rd, 2008 at 23:57
Grognard, yes i do agree with what u say in the fact that without ronaldo we wud be a very average team. He is our main man, and where wud we be without him. I have said before that i think park is very limited and yes is a good squad player but he is getting in the team almost every week now, so in effect he is 1st team now and he is no where near good enough. If nani is judged not to be good enough then a new player should be brought in and i wud love that 2 be arshavin even tho i dont think he plays left wing (not sure correct me if im wrong). I would also like 2 see more or frazier campbell cos i feel he has something that none of the other strikers have so he wud br gr8 for us. He drags players out of position and gives space for others and this is an invaluable quality. I also wud love to see more of wellbeck and manucho too. If tev has to go then maybe its for the best cos from his body language he will never be happy being a sub and maybe thats the best he can hope for.
I love to watch barca and i consider them as my 2nd team and united r very similar to them in many aspects. One thing i love about them is despite being a great team they always blood their youngsters and now we have a great batch of players coming through i hope we give them their chance. Another thing about barca is their ball retention and passing. They never waste the ball and are so comfortable keeping possession. They can have the ball for 10 mins and not create something and not panic. We seem to panic too much at times and play long balls. How many times i saw o’shea do that was pathetic. Whilst i love united there are certain aspects where i just wish we were more like barca.
November 24th, 2008 at 0:07
What our team should look like 12 months from now:
Foster
Rafael Rio Vidic Evra
Ronaldo Carrick(Hargreaves?) Anderson Silva
Berbatov Campbell
That team is waay to good to lose any game.
November 24th, 2008 at 0:11
I meant “could”, not “should”.
But maybe it really should. On current form at least.
November 24th, 2008 at 2:48
@Shyam: I totally agree. Tevez has been badly mismanaged and it has played with his form and confidence. Park was never fast enough or skillful enough to be a major contributor to this team. I can think of 25 wingers in the Bundesliga alone that I rate higher than Park. Park was a way to make money in the Asian Licensing market and nothing more. He works hard and he does have his moments but they are few and far between. As for Tevez, it’s funny how he can play well for Argentina on Wednesday and be so terrible for us. Watching the Scotland game I was taken by how contained he was in terms of territorial responsibility. He also patrolled far closer to the box than he does for us. I just don’t know what Fergie is thinking.?????
November 24th, 2008 at 4:54
@Shyam: You are right on about Tevez, we have destroyed him. It is gonna hurt so bad when he moves on ad become a top player again.
@Jay Jay: Your right I forgot about about Walcott. He and Anderson are kids. But it doesnt change the fact that our youngsters are pushing for first team football, not just carling cup games. Apart from Ramsay,Wilshire and Walcott I wouldnt want any of them.
November 24th, 2008 at 6:50
@Jay Jay: I am pretty happy with the youth policy right now. I see the likes of Rafael and Fabio have an impact, alongside Evans and Possebon — not to mention Ben Foster. Even if two or three of them come through, I’d be glad. Arsenal’s much vaunted youth policy has been a failure because whatever the kids do in the Carling Cups, they seem to find life hard in the actual league. For every Fabregas and Clichy, they have an Alex Song, Diaby, and Hoyte. Arsenal have won fuck all in the past four years. So I don’t get your point about Arsenal’s youngsters taking teams apart in a low pressure Carling Cup environment. We need to find the right balance between youth and experience, and considering the way we fused young players like Rooney, Ronaldo (and Anderson/Nani) with older heads like Giggs, and Scholes — we haven’t done too badly. Surely, consecutive league titles and a champions league medal is testament to that success?
We don’t need to take teams apart in Carling Cup games to prove that we are getting young players through.
November 24th, 2008 at 7:46
giggs is now tired he should come on as a sub and fergie should start plying our youngsters since the experienced guys are not getting the results we are used to.
November 24th, 2008 at 8:11
Well written article RR.
I am in the same boat here; Fergie’s substitutions have appeared so strange to me too this season. Perhaps as U said, we need an assistant that can do some thinking. We faced the same problem even against Arse…
The Villa game was always gonna be a hard one, & I thought Fergie sh’ld have had Manucho on the bench(if not for his brilliance, atleast for the physical presence of the lad & aerial threat) We had too many corners go to waste.
RR …… I think its time Fergie begins bringing up Manucho (I just don’t see Tevez coming back to form soon) I like Tev but he’s just “off”.
the man looses every ball he gets.
November 24th, 2008 at 8:17
I for one believe we would have been a better team without Slavio the slave. I knew his crap personality would start to get on people’s nerves.I actually hope he fails to get the WPOTY award because never in my life have I seen a more classless,arrogant footballer. And yes I am a die hard United fan before anyone starts with their high horse inquisitions.
Anyway to the match then. Having said that about Slavio,I think he was one of our better players throughout the match and shame on the F.A. for letting the BPL become a fusion of Aussie rules rugby and taekwondo. Our game was pretty much disjointed understandably to some point.
However,SAF can’t claim fatigue as an excuse for his poor performance,like most of our players can. Once again his tactics were put in the balance and found wanting. Nani for Tevez was clearly not the right option. I think Rafael for O’Shea would have been a better sub;Nani for Ronaldo and Park for Anderson if he had to use all subs. Also,make the substitution early;not in the 86th minute.I think the main problem with Ferguson is that he is generally too cautious when on the road or playing big teams.We give too much respect to our opponents and decide to get serious when we have 8 minutes left in the game.
Tevez in my opinion was poor and the lack of confidence is very much evident. He is beginning to run around aimlessly.Like a headless chicken as some would say. He may be well on his way out of Old Trafford.However I don’t believe a player just loses his talent and abilities without some sort of severing of limbs. I think it’s simply a case of confidence or lack of it.Also it seems SAF has not properly described and defined his role as a striker or if he has then it’s the wrong definition.
Our defence was almost flawless but was put under immense pressure by the pace of the Villa attack and the porous display of our midfield.Carrick was largely subdued and was exposed in his failure to break up play consistently;but he was the main reason why we had a high possession count due to his retention qualities.Giggs played reasonably well and at least with him you know there will be an attempt to drive the team forward and not too many side and backward passes. But he failed to replicate Carrick’s retention display because he was constantly out muscled by the likes of Sidwell.That’s why the introduction of Anderson became inevitable though it came too late. Park as expected ,worked hard and tried to make things happen but his lack of penetration worked hard against him.He did win a number of free kicks which would have probably best utilised by any other team which is better disciplined at free kicks than Manchester United F.C.
Rooney played reasonably well in my opinion but his adrenalin fuelled rocket launch cost us the game. He made the right passes but together with Tevez,had to drop back often due to the lack of proper midfield supply.
All in all we played a very good team who are playing with so much confidence and have a lot of pace in their game after an internationals week. But we should still have won that game. We were the last of the Big Three to play on an unusual day,when all teams in the Big 3 played. The other two teams only managed to draw and both failed to score;what further motivation does an ambititous footballer require? We could have been 4 points behind Chelsea and with a game in hand but as usual we fluffed it when the door was wide open.
November 24th, 2008 at 9:59
@Jay wire: So we have a Big 3 now?? I thought it was either the Big 2 or the Big 4… who’s that third team in the big 3 though?? (i see neither Arse or Liverfool deserving a place above one another).
November 24th, 2008 at 10:37
Really late player ratings and thoughts:
EVDS – 8 – Came strong for crosses, saved a few decent shots and made one ‘wonder’ save across his body and held on, avoiding the inevitable tap in. Best performance I’ve seen from him this year. His distribution was also great, didn’t punt it, rolled it out and looked to get attack going again.
Vidic – 8 – Did very well, won everything in the air and could have scored. Probably should have walked for his foul on Agbonlahor though. Not sure what his options were, but he was v. lucky not to get a foul.
Rio – 8 – I’m sure he was playing, but as I didn’t see him much I assume he was controlling the Villa ‘attack’. Had a few forays into their half but always ended up running away before it came to anything.
Evra – 7 – Defensively didn’t have much to do, but also didn’t create many attacking opportunities which was a little surprising. Definitely would have liked to see him and Nani instead of Park.
Carrick – 7.5 – Would have had one of the assists of the season but for a shocking ‘finish’ from Rooney. Controlled the tempo of the game and provided a shield for the back 4. Didn’t put enough telling balls through for me, but that could be to do with the fact that one of his strikers seemed to be playing behind him…
Giggs – 6.5 – It was okay. Alright. Medium to well. Good enough for an Everton or City or the like, but not a CMF performance worthy of the double winning Champions of Europe. And I think that’s the problem.
Park – 6.5 – My advice if you’re a limited chance type player, who needs to make an impact to warrant his place: if you’re through on the goalie in a 0-0 match, maybe you should take a snap shot, instead of having a look around and giving the defense time to get back. Ran a lot but accomplished little. Nani should have been on earlier.
Ronaldo – 7 – Yes he tries hard, and is our best player, but he also got back into the ‘my back is broken’; ‘my ankle is broken’; ‘my leg is broken’ premadonna of yesteryear. The reason the crowd was giving him so much sh*t was because he kept laying on the ground for minutes at a time. And I’m being honest, some of the tackles were crunching but most were fair. It’s a tough sport. Also, if you’ve worked out the spineless ref isn’t going to give you the 10 yards you need to make your free kicks work, perhaps you should consider doing something else, instead of thumping it into the wall to try and make a point?
Tevez – 5.5 – What happened to you Apache?
Rooney – 6 – A very important miss. Not much else to talk about, though he had a couple of beautiful passes. Screaming to made a SS/AMF. Everyone on here is talking about missing that spark, well he’s the man for that, but if he never gets the ball he’s not going to accomplish anything is he?
Fergie – 5 – I thought the first half was great tactically, we owned them, and a few inches here and there and we would have had a lead. But didn’t adjust in the second half and his subs were absolutely mind-boggling. Plus everyone could see Ronnie was exhausted, but he didn’t’ come off til 10 mins left. I don’t understand the great man sometimes.
November 24th, 2008 at 10:53
@Beachryan: Good ratings. especially the point about Giggs.. not good enough in the center for us. He should be used as a sub against good teams such as Villa who also work their socks off. Against low end teams, he could start in the midfield. My personal opinion.
November 24th, 2008 at 11:24
@Beachryan: @Rahul: I agree boys, playing a 34 former winger speaks volumes about Fergie belief in Andy.
November 24th, 2008 at 11:28
@Stephen: I never thought of that angle, but yes, it is worrying if Andy is behind a 34 year old winger in Fergie’s list.
By the way.. whats the deal with the Tosic guy?? Have we signed him already?? or is it pending till he gets a permit and clears medical?? he is a left footer right?? And what if, Chelski sabotage our plans again by signing him for more money (a la Essien, Mikel)???
November 24th, 2008 at 11:29
Saturday’s match was bad but I’m worried about the evolution of this squad. When United has looked utterly sterile over the last 5 years it was usually down to the midfield. The team is looking increasingly sterile.
In accordance with lots of you, I believe that lack of movement and forcefulness in midfield is a problem against certain teams…teams with strong midfields.
If the best elements of the team are fit then the problems become minimised, but as soon as a few are knackered or misfiring then TEAM play dips dramatically. Like Saturday. Giggs and Carrick in midfield is a dreadful pick against Villa. IMHO
Which players in this squad are on an upward spiral, long term or short term?
VDS: Downwards
Rio and Vidic: Upwards
Neville: No comment
Brown: Upwards
Evra: Stagnant
We know the defence is good
Carrick: Upwards
Giggs: Downwards
Fletcher: Upwards
Park: Downwards
Hargreaves: Downwards it seems
Anderson: Stagnant
Scholes: Downwards
Park: Downwards
Nani: Stagnant, would be upwards if he played
Ronaldo: Stagnant, mentally downwards atm
Rooney: Downwards short term, long term…downwards? hmmm
Tevez: Downwards with United
Berbatov: stagnant
The rest is just speculation apart from Rafael and hopefully Possebon. I missed O’Shea…permanently stagnant but reliable and strong.
United don’t have an attacking midfielder who will shoot, has speed and a good engine. It’s looking like a game of handball. Giggs just doesn’t have any presence any more. Ditto Scholes. Anderson may never get there.
A replacement for Scholes is needed, there are too many safety players in this midfield. Is Arshavin the man?
November 24th, 2008 at 12:05
@ Magno – Good post, you’re absolutely spot on with development factors. It frustrates the life out of me. I don’t know who the resopnsiblity lies with either, is that the first team coach? Who is supposed to be developping and improving these guys?
I disagree slightly with a couple, I mean it’s hard to say Ronnie has gone backwards or stagnated, he’s still scoring like a machine and is our best player. I have no idea if Nani is getting any better cause I never see the damn player. I don’t think Ando has gone backwards, I just think people hyped him up too much.
I think the real challenge will be to keep these players until they’re 24/25. We just expect to much from them right away. They’re still really young, and will learn the more mental and attitude parts of the game with time.
November 24th, 2008 at 12:56
So I see Podolski looks to be available. I’ve always thought him quite an intelligent player that would fit well into our system. Straight replacement for tevez… ?
http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_4542183,00.html
November 24th, 2008 at 13:11
@Beachryan: I agree, it is hard to evaluate Ronaldo.
Thinking about it again I would say the regular players with the widest ‘potential’ for development are Anderson, Nani, Rooney and Ronaldo.
Rooney has so much dormant talent, Nani too, what if someone taught Anderson how to shoot? And Ronaldo…for someone so talented, his passing is woeful, in fact he doesn’t often pass, he reluctantly gives it to someone else…I’m not complaining, just saying he has the potential to be even better, enjoy the pass when the dribble isn’t on.
Unfortunately it seems like these ‘potentials’ may only be fully realised somewhere else, notably in Nani’s case.
November 24th, 2008 at 13:16
@Beachryan As much as Podolski is a good player I wouldnt go for him. I think we have enough strikers and Campbell is doing really well at tottenham. Yesterday he missed a header but his movement was brilliant for such a lad. I would rather recall Campbell to act as third striker rather than selling tevez then getting Podolski who wont really see much action.
November 24th, 2008 at 13:20
@Magno. That is why i feel we need a new tactician because from what I have seen of late, the current coaching staff isnt doing much and the percieved reluctance of Fergie to give Nani games
November 24th, 2008 at 13:29
I know its easier said than done but how about getting a development coach from the famed Partizan Belgrade.
November 24th, 2008 at 14:21
@magno: Calling Evra stagnent is a confusing term.. the only way he could be any better is if he was a foot taller. He is THE best left back in the world, we have the best central pairing in the world.
The fact that Neville is still captain and in the squad tells you everything you need to know about Fergie. He’s lost his bottle. How many players has Fergie got rid off when their time was up and thrown a youngster into he place? It usually works. Why is he so desperate to keep Neville?
November 24th, 2008 at 14:26
@ Traverse It gets even worse when you here about contract extension
November 24th, 2008 at 14:38
@Traverse: I think Evra is really good but I don’t see him getting much better, I could very easily be wrong though…he’s an excellent player and I hope he remains at the same level.
I think he’s peaked…I don’t think he is foul-smelling, dull or inactive
November 24th, 2008 at 14:41
The only answer I can come up with for Neville’s inclusion is that Fergie doesn’t think anyone else can be a ballsy enough captain. Which is depressing. Hargreaves would have been perfect for that, but who knows if/when he’ll be back. No one would listen to Fletch I fear, a few of the guys clearly don’t listen to Rio and Giggs is so soft spoken no one would hear him.
But I agree. If Beckham and Ruud were past it in Fergie’s eyes, how on earth can Gary still be around? Get him on as a coach or something, certainly, but not as a player…
November 24th, 2008 at 15:37
RONALDO is a disgraceful cheat. Fergie needs to give him a good shoeing and tell him who is bigger. Not impressed with RIO and VIDIC continual whingeing, whining and fouling. Does VIDIC really think we played with 10 men behind the ball? Come on, you’re better than this; surely?
November 24th, 2008 at 15:38
@Villavon:
November 24th, 2008 at 15:42
Maybe we should give our great captain a bit of respect, he has been a loyal servant for the club and we should remember that.
November 24th, 2008 at 16:00
Maybe he should learn to have a little bit more of respect for himself and the ref? Poor example of a captain.
November 24th, 2008 at 16:03
@Villavon: Fuck off mate, he wasn’t even playing on Saturday, and your last captain doesn’t even want to play for you, oh like your one before that.
November 24th, 2008 at 16:22
i watched the game sat in a pub in leeds (don’t ask) and just slowly sank into my seat. this team looks like a shadow of its former self… what ever happened to strength in depth? last season the reason why we did so well was because if the first teamers were injured then the next lot stepped up.. this year its like every game we play its played through mud, so slow compared to last year.
bring back CQ!
November 24th, 2008 at 16:29
@Will: If we all believe that if we bring back CQ we will suddenly turn our season back I think we are deluding ourselves.
Villa played for a draw which they got, and they are a decent side, we just need are big players to really start performing, which they are doing intermissantly which is not good enough, we also had a really good chance to score which we didn’t, if you don’t score you don’t win.
November 24th, 2008 at 16:31
Well, i’ve finally lost all my optimism with regards to the progression of our current squad. I believe Fergie promised us that we can only develop this season, yet by mid-November, the only movement i’ve witnessed is backwards.
Honestly, can anyone point to one or more members of our squad that has improved on last season? I think u’ll find it hard to. This can only be the fault of the coaching and technical staff. I reckon too much faith was put on the players skills and self-improvement by management, in the process, they were mismanaged/underdeveloped. They are all outstanding players and I believe more attention should be placed on them broadening and improving some of their less impressive skills. Maybe it’s a bad patch they’re going thru, but it is obvious that some of the basic skills like accurate passing, crossing, shooting and possesion play are not up to point.
Having said that, the lads have it in them and if Fergie decided to stop blowing their trumpets and focus on developing their skills and potential maybe they might become the team we all know they can be. How players like Nani, Rooney and Tevez still be at this point in their development is beyond me. Rooney can be a much better player, hell, we saw what a few days of training with Capello did for him, only to return to United and fall back into his old ways.
If that is not a clear indication of the technical/managerial complacency evident at United, I don’t know what is.
November 24th, 2008 at 16:43
@Red Ranter: What youth policy are talking about when we are getting players who are young but have already made their mark. Name any player from our current youth academy that we got before they were seen somewhere tomenting opponents, who? ofcourse it cant be rooney or ronaldo or nani or the twins or manucho or rossi and even anderson. All these were already good players when we signed them, some we polished and others we were about to kill their carriers!
trust me its between me and you Welbeck is going nowhere. its just the obsession SAF has got with kids from UK and the hype from the press but i dont see that kid as a future united striker. five years down the road when Campbell is 25 and Welbeck is 24, i’ll be asking you where they are and you can’t mention. Am not a prophet of doom but am speeking form past history and statistics.
November 24th, 2008 at 17:15
Stephen,
I think you need to get your facts right before you start resorting to foul mouthed rhetoric. He (RIO) did play, and don’t think he is an example of a good captain. BARRY was an outstanding example as a captain for years until he deluded himself that Liverpool would bring him great riches. His reward was to be stripped of his captaincy and dropped from the side.
FERDINAND is a whingeing fool, just like RONALDO. You’re becoming like Chelski, in that you start tumbling over your own shadow, bullying the ref, crying, making hand gestures. The MAN.U I remember, always rose above that. I wonder what kind of part time supporter you are stephen, who doesn’t even know what squad was put out. Apologies to real Manc supporters!
November 24th, 2008 at 17:16
@Gabriel: Mate that is very synical!!
Tevez was playing some of his best footballearly/pre season and Rooney was in form before Capello got hold of him. Nani last season showed great promise, and this season has not had a decent run of games.
We have been unlucky as a lot of the young players last season seeme dto be in and out of form at different times, this season they seenm to be at the same time. Plus Ronnie’s goals bailed us out s few times and this season he has struggled at times, simply because he has been injured and doesn’t seem to have fully recovered, also he has been kicked from pillor to post.
It is easy to blame CQ or Berba, but it is a long season and we will be challenging, look on the brightside we could support Arsenal!!
November 24th, 2008 at 17:21
@Villavon: I thought you were talking about Neville as I was.
I am a season ticket holder and have been for over ten years, so don’t call me a part time supporter, you voyeur, why don’t you support your own club rather than be a classic ABU and cruise on other club sites?
If Rio wasn’t a good captain why would he be England vice captain under Capello idiot? You are just bitter and need to move on, when was your last trophy league cup, and the way you are talking you probably weren’t alive then.
November 24th, 2008 at 17:31
Stephen,
Rather be a voyeur than an arrogant pleb. The idea of visiting other sites is to get a different angle, and perhaps more objective view of a game. Unfortunately, there will always be the narrow minded. You have taken my comments personally, this was not the intent.
I used to enjoy watching Man.U in previous seasons as I’m a football player and supporter. My point is, Man.U are a bigger club than to have pretentious smug upstarts like RONALDO, who IS tarnishing the good name of your club.
November 24th, 2008 at 17:58
Mate, I am looking on the brightside, only it seems the clubs technical and managerial incompetence is blocking the light.
Maybe it’s because we played at breakneck speed and relied on Ronnie’s goals(he does prefer to play at that speed) that I missed all these little defeciencies. Now our game is slowed down a bit, we are not capable of showing the technical grace of say Arsenal, Barcelona or (forgive me) Chelsea.
You just have to look at our games against those teams I mentioned, esp away from home. We usually get outplayed and ususally have to resort to very protective, defensive formations to cope with their superior posession play and technical skills on the ball. I mean, we also have ’strikers’ that can’t shoot or rather prefer not to stay in the penalty area. We have midfielders who can’t contribute anything worthwhile to attack, nevermind orchestrate the midfield ala deco, Xavi etc.
A club like United should be able to play proper possession football as well as build-up solid attacks without the opportunity of a counter. When was the last time you saw us pass around the ball, keeping possesion for more than a couple of minutes and maybe scoring at the end of that period? Probably none, which is why we have looked so limp this year, because with our game slowed down a bit, we cannot do this. Instead, we end up giving the ball back to the opposition either thru misplaced passes or aimless crosses and lumps from the defenders.
Also, players in the club right now seem undiscipined/unmentored with their footballing roles and skillset. This then leads to under-development, which we are seeing with a number of our potentials; Rooney, Tevez, Nani, Anderson etc. Look at Anderson, how hasn’t he been developed or trained to keep the ball down when he shoots it. How can two of our strikers be so ‘unclinical’ and afraid of the penalty area? How can we not be able to play ‘keep ball’ with the quality we have on the pitch? Again, look at Rooney and the little time he spent with Capello, always seemed to be in the right places and doing the right things.
It’s all to do with proper technical and managerial mentoring. The players are great, but not so great that they cannot work to improve their game. I believe we need to go back to the basic skills such as passing, shooting, possession play, crossing etc in order to play a more technical, possession oriented game. Most of the players are still young and can adapt to a new style, even if it is less adventurous then the breath-taking one we love to play.
November 24th, 2008 at 18:04
@Villavon: at no point was Rio our captain on Saturday. Get your facts right you idiot
November 24th, 2008 at 18:05
@ Gabriel: I cannot agree more.
November 24th, 2008 at 18:19
@ Gabriel – to be fair, we had something like 63% posession on Saturday. So our ‘keep ball’ skills are pretty good. It’s the creating chances bit that seems to be missing
November 24th, 2008 at 18:27
Villavon :
While I appreciate the fact that visitng other clubs sites will give you a perspective of their way of things, it is plain idiocy to come on to their site and call their best player an upstart or arrogant. Just go and ask Martin O Neill whether given a chance would he have Ronaldo in his team and then when he bounces about like a three year old girl who is just offered ice candy, you can come back with your tail back between your legs. Ronaldo is the best player in the world. The only other player who comes close is Messi.
Gareth Barry was sacked as captain. Thats how pathetic your captians for, atleast our Captain – Gary Neville now, hasnt had to face the ignominy of being confronted for wanking for a place at Scouseland. So there you go.
November 24th, 2008 at 18:33
And thanks for your concern. But no thanks, you dont need to be concerned about who is tarnishing the reputation of our club.
November 24th, 2008 at 18:47
@ Beachryan:
True, but most of it was in our own half or maybe the first ten yards into their half. Any further up the pitch than that and things went wrong. O’Neill kept his players on a very tight leash which is understandable after conceding eight goals against us last season. His team was set up well to absorb our usual lightning quick counter attacks. I only recall one instance where they dropped their guard a bit (Rooney trying to send Tevez through in the first half with a ball behind the defense, came up half a yard short) Fair play to them, but a team like United should be able to push a team further back if they’re dropping back that deep and allowing so much possession. We only had them with their backs against their own goal for a sustained period in the last ten minutes.
November 24th, 2008 at 18:56
@ RDY – Completely agree, just saying our ball posession isn’t hte problem, it’s what we do with it!
I’ve come to a conclusion, I won’t get negative until tomorrow night. If we travel to Spain to a tough (and small pitched) stadium and put in a great performance, then I’ll say it really is just players being injured/knackered/bedding in that has scuppered our fluency this year. If we head down there and play for a dour 0-0 draw, with Giggs the lone striker flanked by Tevez and Rooney out wide, with Fletcher, Anderson and Carrick in midfield, I’ll lose my cool and declare outrage.
Knowing that you’re reading this and care what I think Fergie, step carefully old man…
November 24th, 2008 at 19:00
@Beachryan: What I meant was the ability to draw out the opposition with our possession play and make them lose the ball like we seem to do against some other big teams. If we can do this, creating chances from midfeild will not be a problem. I mean, it’s all about balance btw breath-taking football and patient build-ups, right now, it seems we do not know how to do the latter and we are being found out big time. Either play 10 men behind the ball or play possesion football in midfield to stifle United, that’s how it goes.
Now that our game has slowed down a bit due to opposition knowing how to stifle us, we are being found wanting with respect to little areas of the game that matter. Our passing has been very eratic, our finishing has been poor, little or no useful crosses into the box, players out of position. All these come to light when we can’t play our rapid counter attack game and that’s what worries me. We need to work on being able to play with that technical prowess (purposeful, penetrating possession; accurate crossing, passing & shooting) that is needed to succeed in a slow-tempoed game. That is how we can cope with whatever team we face and not be afraid to match whatever they bring with what we have (e.g Barca last year).
Also, about our mismanagement of players. Why players like Rooney, Nani and now Tevez seem to be repeating their respectives mistakes over and over at United is beyond me. Not to talk about how most of them are repeatedly played out of position and in the process loosing the skills that matter and gaining nothing useful in return. It’s easy to blame the players, but if the staff cannot find a way to direct them on the right path then it’s not solely the player’s faults. Again, look at Rooney in the few games for Capello and Tevez against Scotland. We have the talent and I’m just worried that the staff are not doing the best job in developing/utilising them properly or to the maximum.
November 24th, 2008 at 19:05
Unitedunited :
I think you’re missing the point. Any team would want RONALDO in their team, what is disappointing is that he feels it necessary to cheat. MARADONNA was an exceptional player, but he was a cheat. He will always be remembered for his great footballing skills, but, this is seriously tarnished because he was/is still a fucking cheat. If he wasn’t so good then maybe you’d take the moral high ground.
November 24th, 2008 at 19:20
@ Villavon – I think you mistake Ronnie’s petulance for cheating. All credit to your team, they riled him, which was the game plan clearly, but if our game plan had been to kick out at Agbonlahor everytime he got the ball, you’d be a bit dissapointed too. I’m not saying every tackle was poor, most were perfectly legimitate. But still, everytime he went anywhere, the Villa players chopped him down, legally or otherwise. It’s no different from his usual treatment, but he was clearly tired and annoyed to start with, hence his rolling around. I don’t think he ever dove or tried to get someone booked, he just made a meal out of some of the challenges.
My question for you, as a Villa fan, were you dissapointed that your team didn’t come out to beat United, rather to contain them? Not really your style these days (though admittedly it worked)
November 24th, 2008 at 19:38
Beachryan,
Simulation is cheating. I was extremely pleased with our performance against arguably the best side in europe. It shows we’ve come a long way in a short space of time. Most of your possession seemed to be idling around the back four. We managed more shots on target, and VIDIC should have been off (not a pen though). I still hope you beat Chelsea to the title, as Liverpool’s bubble will burst before I open my prezzies.
November 24th, 2008 at 19:47
SAF is slowly but surely making a right pigs ear of our season, if Rafa Benitez had made the unneccesary changes that Fergie has made this season he would have got slaughtered. Can any one remember the last time we played the same team for two games in a row.
I stated two weeks ago Giggs in the middle offers little and Park offers little more than hard work. Then to compound matters he takes of Tevez, puts on Nani, leaves Giggs and Park on and moves Ronaldo up front, maybe Im wrong here but some of SAFs starting line ups and substitutions have staggered me this season causing our team to play like complete strangers and if he doesnt catch himself on he is going to wreck our our season.
Reo Coker bullied our centre mids until Anderson came on, why was he not on from the start and no one is going to tell me that Park is more dangerous than Nani and why does he keep taking Tevez off, he is slowly but surely destroying his confidence.
Not sure about anyone else, but SAF is definately not filling me with confidence.
November 24th, 2008 at 19:52
Prediction! tevez leaves us in jan
November 24th, 2008 at 20:00
@Beachryan: Few people on this blog if any are bigger Podolski fans than myself and on paper he looks to be a great fit to our team with the fact he can play the striker role, CF, or even LW role but he is not the answer. He is not a creator of goals. He like all other strikers, needs service and he also tends to wander outwards a bit too much like Roovez.
What we need is a midfielder in the center that is either a schemer with great offensive vision and ability or a Marco Senna or DeRossi type who can take command of the midfield with defensive presence and then is capable of transferring that over to the offense in a proper transition. After that, we need someone on the left side who has the imagination and speed to challenge defenders and is also capable of delivering a killer cross.
These two requirements aren’t that hard to figure out but it seems that the hierarchy at OT is clueless at present and have their heads stuck in the past. Or is that up their collective asses? It’s time for Fergie to admit the model is broken and it’s time to retool a bit and to admit failure when it comes to certain players and ideas. It’s time to cut some players lose as hard as that may seem and to sell some before their value disappears completely. In the case of Carlos Tevez, all we can do is let him go at season’s end because at present, the idea of spending over 20 million for him sounds like wild lunacy to me. I wouldn’t presently spend a plug nickel on him. The player has lost his form, confidence and at times I even see a little less desire and a lot of frustration and dissatisfaction in him. The longer this continues the greater a cancer he will be in training and in the dressing room. As for on the pitch during a game, he has completely lost it and I see no reason to play him over Welbeck and Manucho. In fact the first sign of business in January would be to get back Frazer Campbell. We do not need another high priced striker and Karim Benzema is nothing more than a pie dream fantasy. He is also worthlessly overrated piece of primadona crap who is a selfish player and who would never settle for a #3 striker role on this club. And since Berba is a fixture and Rooney won’t be benched for anything, that is exactly what he would end up being. Do you think he would want to come here and be our newest bench warmer? I don’t think so.
Buying a striker is not an option right now. I love guys like Huntelaar, Ibisivic, Vucinic, Podolski and a few others but I honestly believe that given a proper chance Campbell can make a great impression for us as can Welbeck and possibly even Manucho. Their time is now. We need to see what they have to offer or forever cut them loose. Fine Welbeck is still really young but he has already shown me that he is knocking on the door.
Manucho may or may not be the real deal but he is not a teen either. We need to see if he can play at the highest level. The same must be said for Rafael, Evans and Possebon as well as possibly Gibbson. I am all for starting Rafael 75% of the time as he is a super talent that gives our team an offensive boost and a Samba rhythm when he is out there. Sure he gets caught up field a bit but that will only improve with experience. Unlike Gary Neville who does not get caught upfield and is still beaten. Wes Brown is going to be out for several more weeks. Give Rafael the chance now and back him up with O’Shea. I am also open to seeing Ben Foster get more games in the Prem, not just the League Cup. Lets see if this guy is the heir to the throne or lets make a move ASAP for a great keeper who will take over the position in the future. EVDS has got to be the luckiest old keeper in the world because even when he is not at his best he still gets his share of clean sheets due to our great defense. Our defense has not been as good as last year but still, I think that is not what is hurting this team. Offensively we have no rhythm, no pace, no imagination and we play like frakken cowards afraid to lose or afraid to get hurt. Just once I would like to see a central midfielder try a through ball or chip in or around the 18 yard box with defenders in the way. Bottom line is that if there is no clear cut path for a pass, we are instructed to pass backwards and keep the ball. There is no dare or enterprise in our play.
Yesterday I was watching the useless MLS final in the US between New York and Columbus. Columbus actually have a highly imaginative and highly skilled attacking midfielder by the name of Guilermo, Barros Scelotto. Columbus won the game 3-2 and he assisted on all three goals. The third goal made me really notice because of his beautiful chip lob over a wall of defense on to the path of a player who scored. Now I am not advocating that this player is good enough to be our attacking midfielder. I mean he is in MSL for crying out loud. What I am saying is that he thinks and plays the way I would like to see Anderson and Carrick play in the middle for us. Use imagination and finesse, try things and keep trying them until they work. Playing like a bunch of chicken shits worried about the hair dryer is going to get us nowhere. I can see in my minds eye right now that kind of play being made by Cantona. He had the balls and the confidence to try something. Which is what my whole point is. This team plays with no arrogance, confidence and nerve. We play not to lose.
November 24th, 2008 at 20:12
anderson is our new keano. a big strong enforcer. its him.
November 24th, 2008 at 20:14
@Villavon: If you are calling me an arrogant pleb then look at yourself, you are slating one of our players who you say was captain, but was not, you are on a United site being all self righteous call me a part time fame when I have been to every home game this season plus to some away games, then call me a part time fan!!
Fuck me you are a good side so calm down, you are critizing our club and our players, grow up and support your team rather than just hate another, do you go on Chelsea sites and say the same about Terry? I bet you don’t, I am United until I die, I am well educated so do not come on this site and and speak to me in that way, go support your own club.
November 24th, 2008 at 20:21
@Gabriel: Mate I respect what you are saying but technical ability of Arsenal who have lost to Hull, Fulham, Citeh and Stoke Ok and Villa, who are a good side? What matters is fight, ability and belief and i hope we have all this season.
November 24th, 2008 at 20:27
Stephen,
I think you’ll find I’ve been quite praiseworthy of your club. Furthermore, if TERRY was a blatant cheat that rolled around the floor feigning injury, I would be on their site saying the same. 
You’ve got all your facts wrong AGAIN.
November 24th, 2008 at 20:40
@Stephen: Mate, those qualities you mentioned at the end of that comment is what Arsenal lack and that’s why they’re struggling this season. Look at what happened when they regained their belief and fight playing a timid United, we saw them at their best. Arsenal in their pomp (last season’s btw
) have proven they can score plenty against whatever kind of team is put in front of them. This is due to their technical abilities that enable them to play perfectly in closed tight games or open free-flowing ones. We can play in the latter, but it’s our ineptitude at the former that gets me worried.
We can’t play open, fast free-flowing football all the time and when this happens, we can’t seem to find any ways of creating chances or controlling proceedings. This is a major flaw in this team and the reason we see so many timid displays against Big teams that can play that controlled, patient build-up sort of way. Especially in Europe, where this is the forte of many a BIG teams (Barca anyone?). Like I said in my previous post, if you want to stifle United, play 10 men behind the ball or control possession in midfield and we are screwed(something we’ve seen a lot of this season).
November 24th, 2008 at 20:40
A Letter to Sir Alex Ferguson:
Dear Sir Alex;
Sorry to start this open letter to you this way but what the Hell has happened to you Boss? When did you become the ever cautious Jose Mourinho type and basically handcuff and limit your team by implementing such negative and uninspiring tactics and lineups? Has success and the thrill of ultimate victory blinded you on how you actually got there? You never got there playing like Jose Mourinho (except for that disgrace in Barcelona). You got there playing Alex Ferguson attacking football. Now at the age of 68 you have your legacy to protect and you are playing scared because you lack the courage to make the impact moves or just plainly simple, the rebuilding moves that will keep this team a contender far after you have left.
Your recent performance has left a lot to be desired sir. You have ignored the young on this team and over played the old and washed up. You continue to take your finest offensive assets and play them out of position or have them play roles that are against their better instincts and that eventually destroy their confidence and form. You put out lineups that are designed to minimize disaster rather than cause disaster to the opponent. You have lost your motivational strength as nobody on this team is playing hard, with passion or like they really care. Above all, the players do not look or seem like they are having any fun whatsoever out on the pitch. All of a sudden football looks like a beast of burden to previously happy faces like the ones that used to be on players like Rooney, Tevez, Ronaldo and Anderson. And nobody, not even Tevez is playing like he is trying to hold on to or win a starting job.
The team is going through the motions playing an antiquated and boring style of football and not showing itself as adaptable to anything else. We have become, soft, fat and predictable. The team has lost it’s edge and it’s hunger because the manager has lost his. Boy Moscow must have taken everything out in the old gaffer hasn’t it?. What happened to the head games when it comes to opposing managers and players? Instead we tell the world how much we fear, respect and admire Martin O’Neill and Aston Villa even though we have beaten them senseless for so many years. What happened to controversial comments designed to get into the other team’s psyche? Now all we get is your constant bitching to the referees where you constantly seem to get fined or banned from the touchline. Like thats going to make the difference and turn things around.
Sorry Fergy, I do love you, honest I do, but I have seriously started to question your hunger and your commitment over the last little while. And why shouldn’t I? Some might claim blasphemy or disloyalty, I think it is just to question your leaders when they aren’t doing their jobs well enough. Sure I am spoilt from success but living in Canada, there is a reason why I chose Manchester United to be the team I would support some 25 years ago. I chose them because of an attitude, commitment and style of play that promoted confidence, arrogance, winning and attacking football. This was before you came to OT Fergy. This was during a down time for the team. Still I picked them because I remember what I saw before and of course the history of the club with Busby’s Babes, Best, Law, Charlton and the rest. Also, I couldn’t choose Liverpool because I had good taste and because my taste was not in the septic tank like so many others that chose to smell and eat Scouse. God forbid.
Then you showed up Sir Alex and you build a juggernaut and a dynasty. I will never be more grateful to you for what you have done for me as a loyal long time supporter, but also what you have done for the world wide nation of Mancunia. You are a God but here is when I say that although I am a religious person, I have been known to question God and to even get down right pissed off with him. So if you are or you seem like a form of God to me, then you must prepare yourself for my tirade.
I am very very unhappy with you Sir. You have given me so much for over twenty years but now you have decided to disappoint and cut me off from my yearly fix which is not just United winning, but United playing attacking entertaining football. I’m seeing less and less of that stuff and it’s got me worried. Fergy, have you forsaken me and the rest of your loyal Mancunian followers? Have you decided you are tired of us and the whole thing? Because if you are, then perhaps it’s time to do the unmentionable. You know…….the R word. Perhaps I am asking too much and I am being unreasonable but I feel that we must look at it though. Perhaps it is time for another to have his chance to emerge as a God. Oh nobody will ever fill your shoes but the problem right now Sir, is you can’t even fill your own shoes. Not while your relaxed and carefree like there is nothing the matter. Me thinks your shoes today are giving you painful corns and blisters. Are they as swollen as your ego? Is your ego even swollen like it should be? You seem rather content and conservative of late. Similar to a fat cat that has gorged himself on Christmas leftovers. Just doesn’t want to get up and do much.
Sorry for this letter of tirade Sir Alex, but someone with balls has to stand up and challenge you or at least question you. Please do something positive for this team or hand over the reins to someone hungrier and more ambitious. Because as a loyal fan watching your team going through the motions and just basically stagnating is not what I want and certainly not what I am used to. Like I have said earlier, you have spoilt me Sir and for that I am grateful but I am also fearful. I am afraid of continuing in the way we are presently, I am afraid of life at OT after you are gone, but I am most afraid of our team taking a negative direction in it’s player purchasing, strategy and tactics and overall makeup. And for all of this to be happening on your watch, has got me angry, confused and bewildered. Either fix it Fergy or step back, get your tee time set at the local golf course and let someone else take over this great franchise. I for one have become sick of watching stale old bread get harder and harder. Oh and take Ryan Giggs, Paul Scholes and Gary Neville with you. That way you will have a good foursome at the old links.
Honestly ask yourself, if it’s actually worth the hassle at your age. If you don’t feel the hunger, desire and lack the heart for it anymore, then please do yourself a favor and make your wife’s day and step down. I have to admit that I am not as patient an individual as you are. I am also known for being rather drastic and negative in my feelings. Perhaps you will step up to the plate (a baseball term) and show people like me that you are still the man and that you still have the hunger, desire and ability to turn things around for this team. Not just in terms of wins, but in the way our team plays and the team you field on a game to game basis. You have stuck with the old guard for too long and you need to open your mind to the potential of a very young team. I’m not asking you to go all Wenger on us all. I’m just pleading with you to see the light and put some old boys out to pasture and give some others the needed time on the pitch to make the grade and develop. Your treatment of both Anderson and especially Nani has been disappointing to say the least. Ye sI know that they have not played particularly well but benching them and screwing with their heads and their confidence is not going to work. Do I have to be the one who tells you that today’s athlete is not the same in personality and motivation as the Mark Hughes, Paul Ince, Roy Keane and Bryan Robson types? And you will never ever find another ole Gunnar Solksjaer who will openly sacrifice a starting spot for the good of the team. Did you honestly expect a player of the caliber of Carlos Tevez to sit and pine away on the bench while you play Berbatov and Rooney. And to have the naiveties to believe that player like that would not only welcome that role, but that he would consider signing a new contract with the club, well, lets just say that I am at a loss. Am I so jaded by life and disappointed to believe that such lunacy is actually possible? And now rumors are circulating about your intentions, or should I say delusions about trying to buy Karim Benzema. Yes like that selfish git will welcome the Carlos Tevez role. And why do I assume that it will the role of #3 striker on the bench? Because you will not sit Berbatov down (for obvious reasons) but you are even more reluctant to sit your boy Rooney down. Your devotion and loyalty to this lad is commendable but even I have to wonder why you seem to think he is incapable of doing wrong? His last few games have been total rubbish but that makes no difference to you. Gerd Mueller, Pele or Karl-Heinze Rummenigge wouldn’t have been able to replace Rooney in your starting lineup. And there lies your problem Sir Alex. Stubborn and unable to make the necessary changes that ae needed due to your loyalty to the old guard and your insecurity against anyone without your backing or experience. And what I mean by your backing of course is players in your good books. Rooney, Giggs, Scholes and Ronaldo could go out and shoot ten people and they would always be in your good books. Poor Nani an Anderson as well as Tevez, well they are just annoying pests who need to be taught serious lessons. Sorry but that is how I see things in your present day regime.
I am begging you for change Sir Alex. Change your mantra now. Like many legendary coaches in other sports who eventually began to lose or find mediocrity appealing, the game may be passing you by sooner than you think. Wake up, sniff the coffee and make some youthful and bold decisions to make your club better. Regardless of whether the Glazers can afford a player or two, make the tactical and strategic changes to the team that will turn things around and please please please, change the attitude of this team. They all look like they are waiting for a funeral. Briong back the Samba and the fun to the squad. And if that means shaking up someheads or changing some hair styles with the blow dryer, then do so. Just do something instead of nothing. Which is exactly what you have been doing. It may not be panic time but then again, we are talking about Manchester United, not Newcastle United. Make me eat my words. Make me feel shame for challenging you. Above all Sir Alex, make me proud again and anxious to turn on the tele to watch my beloved United kick ass and take names. Make it so. Please don’t completely destroy the faith I have in you. And always remember Sir Alex, the Grognard is a wise old bastard too.
November 24th, 2008 at 20:46
@Beachryan: Yes it’s extremely easy to keep the ball when you are making safe back passes and and diagonal passes to players in safe positions. But when is someone going to try a great rough ball or work a smart 1,2 or lob a ball into the path of a player in the box? We play chicken shit football like the kind of football that Chelsea played under Mourinho. The difference is his team actually had the size and physical presence to break down defense and score more often.
November 24th, 2008 at 21:04
@Villavon: Does taking cards out of referees hands, bullying them and spitting on Carlos Tevez in ECF count?, muppet, does Petrov dive of course he does!.
Get a grip and fuck off, if you think Terry is a model professional then you are embarrassing yourself. Get a grip, you have a good side and take that chip off your shoulder.
November 24th, 2008 at 21:09
Also missing a vital England game against Crotia then playing 90mins for Chelsea the following weekend, he is a big time Charlie, and every proper fan knows it.
November 24th, 2008 at 21:12
@Gabriel: Mate we are a good side and will be Ok this season keep the faith.
November 24th, 2008 at 21:27
@Stephen: He mate, I disagree with his comments too but there is no need to tell him to fuck off. Just trying to keep things civil. Hope you don’t mind. I do know how you feel but there is no need to get nasty.
November 24th, 2008 at 21:29
@Grognard: I know mate but you know what it’s like.
November 24th, 2008 at 21:55
@Stephen: I do, trust me I do. But like RR was telling me yesterday, we can’t expect everyone to agree with us and or think like us. It would be nice though wouldn’t it?
Oh by the way, let me know what you think of my long letter to Fergie, if you can stomach reading a novel. I pleaded to him from the heart and from my increasing frustration.
November 24th, 2008 at 22:00
@Grognard: you blogger you
November 24th, 2008 at 22:04
@Grognard: Superb mate, just hate people calling me a “part time supporter” there is no need for that, then calling John Terry not A cheat then jeez!
Well thats me, still think the Ginger Prince has something to offer, though, he has something to offer but agree about Senna and De Rossi one or the other would offer a pressence and character to our midfield, something nasty which we miss. Hargo if fit would give us that and I believe your team is reflected via your midfield and we miss that at the moment.
Ps get Berba back, he is top draw and will prove it, and I love him!!
November 24th, 2008 at 22:13
Stephen,
Calm down. I have not said TERRY is a model professional. I also don’t agree with VIDIC’s assessment of the game, suggesting we played with 10 men behind the ball. Well thought out and insightful spiel GRONGARD.
November 24th, 2008 at 22:16
@Gabriel: Have to agree on the part that maybe the bacground staff are nmot doing their job.
did you notice the trend of United employing ex-players or friends of SAF as coaches/background staff – Tony Coton, Choccy McCliar, Fergie’s son as scout, even Ole…
On the one hand, I appreciate the fact that they care for a player’s career once his playing days are over, on the other I just wonder if the recruitment of supporting staff is not based on meritocracy…I mean, I suppose that there must be specific coaches working at specific aspects of the game (like shooting, defending, whatever…), but are they recruited on the basis of they being the best in the business or on the premise tha they’ve somehow had some affiliaton with United
I’m just thinking out loud, I may be wrong… But I know many managers who would demand that certain of their assistants follow them…
I guess we’ll only truly know when SAF finally retires…
November 24th, 2008 at 22:23
@Grognard: you are spot on about Benzema in my view, he is trying to force Tevez out to bring his dream boy Karim in, it is obvious to me, and personally I think he is actually right, Banzema is a good player but playing in the French league is a difficult gage, but I watched against us and he looked very sharp. Carlos is great wonderful attitude, but runs around like a headless chicken too much in my view, and for 35m, seems very expensive.
With regards to EVDS, G Red and Giggsy I am tooif not over loyal to the Golden generation, but they need to play, we are in some transisional period at the moment and I suppose we need to go backwards maybe to progress, show the boys some loyalty, rightly or probably and defintaly wrongly but at least Fergie gives these guys a chance, and I am afraid he will be proven wrong and in the long term we will progress, without the generation of great palyers who served out club so well.
November 24th, 2008 at 22:29
@Villavon: Mate I have no problems bout Villa, but calling me a part time supporter pisses me off, you are on a United site having a pop at a very popular player who plays for us, what do you expect? If I was on a Villa site calling Agbonalhor and Laursen names then I would expect the same, so don’t tell me to calm down and patronise me on a site which has nothing to do with you or your club.
No hard feelings but please see my views, good luck this season.
November 24th, 2008 at 22:31
@Stephen: My objection to benzema would be the lack of opportunity for welbeck and FC. campbell is already good enough for the first team, and dan just needs more time.
November 24th, 2008 at 22:36
@dan(u-ol): Agree mate, I was just saying Benzema is a good player and think maybe Campbell deserves a look at, but he is not a regular at Spurs with Bent and Roman whatshisname in front of him. I know he is young, but my worry is if he can’t command a first team place in front of those guys then he surely cant play for us. Welbeck looks a good player as well, but really young and feel maybe a lot of pressure on him, but you are right and both deserve a chance.
November 24th, 2008 at 22:47
@Stephen: he can and should. but the fact that he’s on loan makes spurs reluctant to play him. camp is better then both, trust me.
November 24th, 2008 at 22:51
@Villavon: What match were you watching??? No offense(I’m not saying theres anything wrong with it), but Villa played really defensively and yes they did play with 10men behind the player. It was almost like there were three Villa players marking just one United player, it almost looked like you guys had no desire to attack but all you wanted to do was keep us from scoring, yes it worked, but you can’t deny you guys parked the bus yesterday, which is quite different from what I expected from Villa, but oh well you got thrashed the times you’ve tried to be open, so I can’t blame O’Neil for trying something different.
November 24th, 2008 at 22:52
@dan(u-ol): You are probably right because the other two are shit!!
Campbell does seem to have something I must say, especially a really strong character which does seem to be stronger since he has gone on loan.
November 24th, 2008 at 23:15
@NicoQB: Rene Meulensteen?
November 25th, 2008 at 0:44
@Stephen: Don’t kid yourself. Campbell is good but Pavluchenko was a name I was shouting about before we went after Berbatov. He is an excellent striker with poacher capabilities too. Bent needs to get his time because to be honest, he has earned since the preseason. He has scored regularly and until he stops doing so, it would be tough for anyone to force him on the bench.
November 25th, 2008 at 1:23
@Stephen: Benzema is a good player but he is overrated. The French league may be defensive in nature but it’s below the Bundesliga in quality. Benzema does not look that great to me in the games I have watched. Far too much has been made of his goal against us. Hell I’ve seen guys in the Coca Cola Leagues score wonder goals like that too. He had his shot and he took it and sometimes they will actually go in. He has never shown me that kind of form since nor do I see anything to warrant calling him the the next Zidane. That’s just ridiculous when I read that. He is young, ambitious and arrogant. He also wants to play for either Real Madrid or Barcelona.
He has no interest in playing in England and especially Man Utd. So I’d like Fergie toplease tell me why the Hell he thinks he can first of all, convince him to come to United and fight for a starting place? Then tell me how he can convince him to come to Manchester when he has stated he does not like Northern England and has no interest in the English League? And finally, where he thinks he will find the 50 million it will take to buy him? While fully knowing the Glazers have been financially decimated by the economic downturn and the fact that their shirt sponsor AIG has almost gone nuts up? What the Hell is Fergie smoking?
Today’s player is arrogant and egotistical. None of them are about team first when they are born outside of the UK. People in the UK still have a blue collar work ethic and it spreads itself into the ethics and feeling of community which UK players seem to be born with. Most of them have no problem showing loyalty towards a club. Foreign players for me seem to have a mercenary outlook on the sport and playing in romantic and exotic locales with history and lots of fanatical support and money is more attractive to them. They like the warm weather too. A French player like Benzema who has North African roots is more apt to play in a climate and atmosphere that is more conducive to his cultural liking. The fact that a grumpy 68 year old Scotsman feels he can pull off a Ronaldo whenever he wants speaks of arrogance, overconfidence and delusion. Fergie got to Ronaldo at an age and at a time before other big clubs took him seriously enough. He was able to seduce the young man with promises and dreams. It was also fortunate that for a Portuguese lad, Ronaldo did grow up watching United play and like the team. Benzema on the other hand grew up loving Real Madrid and Juventus. Coincidentally two teams where his idol Zidane played. Benzema is in the drivers seat here. He will go where he wants to go, not where Lyon want to sell him or where Fergie envisions him going.
I get frustrated when we are linked to players who would never come to our team. United is a location many great players would go to, but not if you know they already prefer Spain or Italy. We have a better chance of getting Franck Ribery who is happy as a bear in honey at Bayern or Andrei Arshavin who has stated that United would be a team he would consider rather than constantly looking to buy players who don’t want to play for us or who don’t feel comfortable with the language, culture or climate. I’m just tired of these delusions of grandeur. Quite a few are just rumors but many of the links are true. Forget Senna, Silva, Villa Benzema and De Rossi. Great players but none of them have ever expressed an interest in coming here nor do they want to go to Chelsea or Man City. It’s not about the quality of the team or history. It’s about playing in a league for a team in a country of their choice. And in most cases that choice is Italy and Spain. It’s not impossible but highly unlikely. Above all, Fergie must be fooling himself if he feels the Glazer’s will dish out 50 million plus for a player of Benzema’s caliber. Not unless he starts dumping contracts like Scholes, Giggs, Neville etc. And Tevez is just a loan so there won’t be any money coming for him either.
I’m sorry but I just don’t see it and I would really like to be surprised by all this. Buy players we need, not extravagances that are not needed. Finally, go after the players who want to play for us, not players who even if they come here, look at this place as a stepping stone. It’s time for Fergie to wake up to the reality of the present day footballing market.
On top of all this, FIFA and UEFA are governing bodies that don’t act like friends of United. These people have powerful lobbyists and friends within clubs like Real Madrid that will fight for the Karim Benzema’s to never choose United. Berbatov was small potatoes when it comes to this stuff. The top Argentinian, Brazilian, Italian, Spanish and French stars have a certain appeal and interest that those organizations covet for their two favorite leagues, those being Spain and Italy. It’s hard to beat their vested interests. I may sound cynical and negative but realism is vital at this time for the club as well as these trying economic times. United isn’t even the richest club in Manchester anymore and Fergie does not have the pulling power he once had because everyone is very well aware that his days as manager are numbered and that the team’s ownership although seemingly stable, is not in the same category of teams like Man City, Chelsea, Madrid, Barcelona and the top Italian sides. Our present style of play and negative football is also not going to be a great selling point for many. If I’m Karim Benzema do I fashion coming to United so that I end up playing a roving role like Rooney or Tevez and even be demanded to play on the wing or as a defensive winger. That kind of lunacy only seems to be happening at OT. Yes we beat Barcelona with Rooney sacrificing himself, but will Benzema feel the same urge to sacrifice himself for the demands of a manager who is apt to try the most unrealistic or counter productive styles of play for his highly talented squad of players? I don’t think so.
November 25th, 2008 at 3:19
@Jay Jay: Possebon and the twins have never played senior club football before United. And I fail to see the difference in our youth policy and Arsenals. I will ask you again, apart from Cashley Cole, who has arsene developed?
November 25th, 2008 at 8:38
@johnsom33: Theo Walcott, Cesc Fabregas, Adebayour, Thierry Henry, to name a few. They were all nothing before Wenger got a hold of them.
November 25th, 2008 at 9:01
Arsene has also (re)developed William Gallas
!!! Mainly his leadership skills!
November 25th, 2008 at 10:45
@Grognard: I agree, Benzema would be a bad buy. As I mentioned a few days ago, Benzema has a very high opinion of himself, he isn’t, and will never be anything like Zidane. Zidane was always mature and of an exceptionally generous and humble nature.
When I say man, I don’t mean a brute, I mean someone who’s confident and mature, and doesn’t need telling what to do. Someone who orchestrates things, controls the other teams mind, not get vexed like Rooney does every week. We are in the age of the boy/man (grown men playing with there son’s video games) 
You talkin’ to me? 
Benzema wants to be the N0.1 player in the world and boils inside when he can’t play…he admits this, only now he’s learn’t to be a bit more subtle in his interviews. He’ll do well at Real.
Surely what United needs now is Uniting, a TEAM player, a somebody, not a wannabe. Where are the men in this squad Fergie?
To me Berbatov seems like a man, you sense see his mind working, teasing the other team, hopefully somebody can benefit from this.
Like the Grognard said yesterday, where’s that through ball, that improbable dink over the defense…keep the opposing defender’s minds working, keep them worried…the artist doesn’t know what he is about to do, but he knows what he wants to achieve. Berba actually said something like this for one of is goals at Spurs, he just improvised.
So I’m looking for an expert…with the Sheringham or the Cantona mindset(not position)…who can maximise a situation’s potential, get a corner, get a foul, wind the other team up, get a quick ball in, change(heaven forbid) your freekick routine…get in their mind.
November 25th, 2008 at 11:23
@magno: Basically you want the next Zidane (whoever that is, certainly ain’t Benzema) or the next Totti or the next Pirlo. Well dude, every team in the world is looking for that kinda player.
Unfortunately, I see no one ready-made for us to go and buy. The further thing is, we will never be able buy a ready made product like that even if there was one. The constant rains and the murky weather deters players with ’sunny’ dispositions. We have to spot the kid somewhere in the street (or in some junior academy in Europe), bring him here and develop them with the passion that Fergie shows for Rafael.
Maybe with Petrucci and Macheda we have a shot at developing them for the future, but they’re forward line anyways. For the midfield, I have no clue who or where that guy would come from (if at all he comes).
November 25th, 2008 at 11:28
Maybe, I’ve become very negative after our last few games!!!
November 25th, 2008 at 12:41
Interesting stuff in the news – 1. We’re looking to get a work permit for that 21 year old serbian winger, so that must actually be a real signing. 2. That Norwegian striker Moa’s club said no to a trial at United, which indicates Fergie really is looking to bostler the strike force. Doesn’t make good reading if you’re a Wellbeck/Campbell/Manucho/Tevez…
November 25th, 2008 at 12:59
@Rahul: Definitely not the Pirlo type, Zidane would be okay I suppose
Just some provocative mother who’s cunning and can score goals would do me.
November 25th, 2008 at 13:24
@magno: Any established boy you could point to, whom we should (hypothetically of course) buy?
November 25th, 2008 at 13:33
Cesc has been named as Arsenal captain. I somehow sense a resurrection now. Although they are bone bare with injuries. Everyone is so expectant. Honestly, I would like us to compete with Arsenal than Cheshit.
November 25th, 2008 at 13:42
@Grognard: Pos was harsh on Pavluchenko mate, and Ribery would be a dream.
November 25th, 2008 at 13:53
fERGIE needs to fuckin rest ronaldo today. I hate how regardless of the situation he starts for us. He’s played us all like bitches, us fans are way to forgetful/fickle when we want to be. This guy is a cunt. I said it 2 yrs ago n i say it agin, his ego will go some distance to create tensions in our squad. He beleives he is bigger than the team. He is a cunt. simple as that.
We dont need to win tonight, he was kicked bout the park on sat, sit the boy on the bence, please fergie. I can just see him getting frustrated again 2night n making a further mockery of himself.
Nani needs toplay 90 mins today other wise theres no point having him in the squad.
God knows what team Fergie will field tonight. Id really like to see Possebon being thrown in, see how he takes to Champs league action
November 25th, 2008 at 13:56
Ask Grognard, seriously he watches a lot of matches, I follow different stuff around the world but I avoid giving names, it would only make me look stoopid
I’ll be recording the Bordeaux match to see how Gourcuff(Milan loan, probably go back) does against Chelsea, he’s played well with Ribery in the French team, mature and stylish.
Possebon? One of the twins as attacking midfielder?…see, I made myself look stupid
I’d definitely swap Arshavin for Tevez right now, but I don’t know how he’d fit in personality wise.
I like Tevez but he’s lost it, which is really sad. If the team was working well as a unit he could maybe regain his confidence but I don’t see that happening.
Even a great player might turn out to be shite for United…I was so disappointed when things didn’t work out for Veron, obviously he wasn’t the right player.
November 25th, 2008 at 13:58
Last comment was for Rahul
November 25th, 2008 at 14:01
@magno: Aren’t you being a little fickle, surely saying things like “I like Tevez but he’s lost it” is a large sweeping statement, could he just be lacking confidence and out of form?
November 25th, 2008 at 14:02
@realred: Was he a cunt scoring 42 goals last season?!!!!!!?
November 25th, 2008 at 14:22
@realred: Cunt or no cunt, he was our best player last season, and he is our highest goal scorer. As Stephen said, no one pointed it out last season that he was a cunt when he banged in 42 precious ones. How has he created tension in the squad? By blowing kisses to Stoke fans? or by showing the number 1 sign to Villa fans?
We will have to trust Fergie on this one. He’ll know when Ronnie has created tensions in the team and he’ll know how and when to deal with that.
@magno: I’d love to see any Da Silva boy as an AMF. I play Rafael as AMF sometimes in FIFA 09 and it is a thriller. Possebon is a very different player, but equally special.
By the way.. I think the Villa game showed us a bit how we’ve begun to miss Count Berbatov.
November 25th, 2008 at 14:23
@Stephen: No, he was a cunt for scoring ‘only’ 42 goals last season
November 25th, 2008 at 14:29
@Gabriel: He did fuck all last season didn’t he?!
And only is it 9 this, so far, waste of space, the new Ralph Milne!!
God give me strength!!
November 25th, 2008 at 14:35
@Rahul: I think it’s not as much missing Berbatov, but having nobody who can do that role when he isn’t there.
Tevez and Rooney are essentially the same player. We had one way of attacking against Villa, and it didn’t work so we didn’t score. If we rtried lumping it up Laursen headed it halfway up the pitch, cause Roovez are midgets.
When it happened last season we got away with it because Ronaldo would score, but he still isn’t fully fit, and is trying too hard because he wants the Ballon’Dor so bad. It’s obviously playing on his mind.
We needed someone who could be a target man and hold the ball up against teams like villa who are good in the air…
November 25th, 2008 at 14:39
@Traverse: Missing his influence then..!
November 25th, 2008 at 14:41
@Rahul: He has only missed one game mate, and that was against Villa, who people seem to forget, aren’t bad.
November 25th, 2008 at 14:45
@Stephen: I know mate, just think if he was there, we’d have won. But then , that’s just dwelling upon ‘If’s’.
I so wanna see good football tonite!!
November 25th, 2008 at 14:49
The Squad tonight is gonna be interesting. Will Fergie go for the jugular and attack or will he opt for the ‘tortoise’ routine where we retreat into our shells and absorb unnecessary pressure? Based on this season’s performances, i’ll put money on the latter
Nani needs to play 90 mins today. Ronaldo needs to rest and Park should start. (Why we have just three wingers is still a mystery to me, esp with our packed schedule
). Rooney and Tevez need another run but please Fergie, tell them to position their wandering arses around the penalty area. We need a credible goal threat and when I see our strikers playing behind the central midfielders while we’re trying to build an attack, I don’t know how we plan to acheive such a threat.
Midfield is a tough one, Fletch is back now and we have Ando and Carrick pushing for a spot. Not to mention Possebon, Gibson and Giggsy. we’ll see what Fergie does on that one.
Actually, maybe we should play a 4-3-3!!
———– Foster ———-
Rafael — Rio — Vida — Evra
—– Fletcher —- Ando —-
———- Carrick ———-
— Tevez ———- Nani —
———– Rooney ———-
Subs: Kuxy, Evans, O’shea, Giggs, Park, Ronaldo, Manucho
I believe this is the best way to utilise our current players. We have a lot of fit and rested midfielders but not many attackers so why not play the game in midfield and actually attempt to control the midfield away from home against tough opposition. What do y’all think?
November 25th, 2008 at 14:50
@Rahul: We all do mate, the way Carlos played I think if I had but on a shirt we would have had a better chance!!
Carlos needs a game tonight it is so important, rest Ronnie for Sunday, gine Nani 90 mins, Anderson on the left side of midfield, worth a go surely?, Fletch and Carrick, Rafael at right fullback and lets tear them a new arsehole!!
November 25th, 2008 at 15:03
@Stephen: Fickle, moi! I want the lad to do well wherever he goes, he’s been badly treated. Let’s hope you’re right and he can turn it around.
November 25th, 2008 at 15:11
@magno: He needs games mate to build confidence, but my view Fergie has changed his mind and has lost interest in the boy.
November 25th, 2008 at 15:11
@Stephen:
It’s funny how the media tend to so easily sway people’s opinions. I swear, this whole Ronaldo hate originated when the media decided to play on his every comment and in the process paint him as an arrogant twat. Look at some of the misinterpreted comments:
Media quote: “I love to play in white”
Actual comment: “I love to play in white for Portugal but I love to play in Red for Manchester United”
Media quote: “I am the No1, No2 and No3 in the world”
Actual comment: When asked for who he would vote for 2nd and 3rd, says “No comment” but after more nagging, jokingly says “me for all of them”, making sure to say “just joke” afterwards, with everyone laughing it off.
All his actual comments during the summer paint a very different story to what the media potray and now some fans forget that he was one of the main reasons we claimed the double last year.
November 25th, 2008 at 15:49
There is no guarantee we would have won if Berbatov was playing. In the Arsenal game he was anonymous and he has hardly been prolific in the EPL this season getting his two goals against much weaker opposition.
Also with Count Berbatov playing every game before the Villa match we were still languishing eight points behind the leaders.
Personally I think if we had been able to play Anderson from the start assuming he was fully fit we would have created a lot more space for our forwards to operate.
Ronaldo was being forced to play a lot deeper than he usually does and that was mostly because their midfield was bullying ours. Anderson would not have let that happen.
Ferguson is right to back Ronaldo. He doesn’t let a bad game get him down or knock his confidence. I much prefer his reaction to Tevez’s who left the pitch whimpering.
If you believe the papers there is a hearing on Friday to decide if Tosic is getting a work permit. Ive tried to read up on him and most of the Serbians seem to think he is below United standards.
November 25th, 2008 at 16:15
@ Colver – cool I was going to ask if anyone had heard anything about Tosic. Seems a bit random to me. I don’t believe in YouTube, so had hoped someone could give some details, but I guess we don’t have too many watchers of the Serbian league!
@ Gabriel – I like the formation, though would switch Carrick and Ando around. Apparently Thomas is in goal, which is dissapointing for Foster (is he just rubbish in practice?!) I wouldn’t be surprised if Evans gets a run out for Rio, we don’t want to risk his back injury any more than necessary. I’m hoping we line up:
———–Foster———–
-Rafael-Evans-Vidic–Evra—
—–Carrick——Fletcher–
————Ando————
—-Nani————Tevez—
————Roon————
But I fear, knowing Fergie this season, we’re going to get:
———-Thomas————
–Raf–Rio—-Vidic—O’Shea-
——Carrick–Fletcher——
—Ronaldo————Park—
———Tevez–Rooney——-
November 25th, 2008 at 16:21
@Beachryan: Please not Park!!!!, I like him but not playing for us!!, what about the other lad comming with Tosic, Adem Ljajic? Anyone shed any light, little Kaka, sounds promising!!
November 25th, 2008 at 17:18
@Stephen: I hear he’s the better of the 2. There’s a thread on Redcafe.net discussing them.
November 25th, 2008 at 17:34
@Liam: Cheers mate.
November 25th, 2008 at 17:59
Hrm, this bit leads me to suspect its just gossip/agent talk: http://sport.setanta.com/en/Sport/Ne…jic-on-United/
Manchester United target Zoran Tosic has urged caution despite reports that The Red Devils have already applied for a work permit for the Partizan Belgrade winger.
Sir Alex Ferguson has identified Tosic as a possible long-term replacement for Ryan Giggs and a double deal has been set up to bring Adem Ljajic to Old Trafford as well, as previously revealed on setantasports.com.
Reports in England claim Ferguson will attend a meeting on Friday to hear if an £8 million move for Tosic can be processed as the 21-year-old requires a work permit. A panel, allegedly including Chris Waddle, will assess the case.
However, Tosic and Ljajic are only thinking of Partizan at present and are refusing to confirm the move is being pushed through.
“I don’t know anything about it,” said Tosic. “I heard about that on TV.
“My friends called me and told me to watch SOS Kanal [a Serbian TV station] and I was surprised.
“I really don’t think about a transfer to United. We will talk about this in the future.
“If this will happen, we will talk about me playing in England and playing in Ryan Giggs’s position but, until then, it doesn’t make sense to talk about it.
“The Premier League is the strongest league in Europe. The game is all about strength and aggression. The beauty of the game is not so important.”
Ljajic scored in the 5-1 win against OFK Belgrade at the weekend and also stressed nothing was concluded, despite already undergoing a trial at Old Trafford.
“I really don’t know anything about it,” said the 17-year-old. “Of course, I like the stories of me going to United, but the most important thing for me right now is Partizan.
“I concentrate only on the games and try to give my best for the team.”
If the players don’t even know, surely it’s not true ffs!
November 25th, 2008 at 18:25
@Beachryan: that page is gone now, hmm…
November 25th, 2008 at 18:35
watch, 3.45, hilarious.
November 25th, 2008 at 18:40
if nani does not play today, and park is playing over the poor lad, i will ultimately agree with the views of other people that he may be on his way to Spain, i can say there is only one player in this earth that has improved whilst being on the bench, and that’s OLE it won’t happen to nani, let the boy learn the game through his mistakes, he will get better. Who here honestly can say when park is on the ball you can foresee something happening as opposed to nani, nani can put a decent cross in and strike a venomous shot whereas park can not, all he does it harass an opposition player into mistakes, and that’s what a defender or a DM does not your winger
November 25th, 2008 at 18:47
the thought of park, rooney and tevez all starting turns my stomach.
Regular back 5
fletch carrick andy
rooney ronaldo nani
please.
November 25th, 2008 at 18:48
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=oH0XFSDPzzs&eurl=http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/2008/11/25/see-manchester-united-transfer-targets-zoran-tosic-and-adam-ljajic-in-action
3.45 shows a better understanding of the game…
November 25th, 2008 at 19:17
@Rahul: And you have a right to feel that way. Too many supporters like to suppress one’s anger or frustration towards the team because they see it as wrong or disloyal. Without getting in an argument with them, they are wrong. To question something is to care. Continue caring mate.
November 25th, 2008 at 19:18
@Beachryan: Perhaps someone can explain to me how we are able to or allowed to sign any player before January, Serbian, Norwegian or Martian for that matter?
November 25th, 2008 at 19:20
@Grognard: right, it is right to vent your frustrations and anger to your team-to an extent. saying something along the lines of we’re playing shit, and so and so player has no ability(you know who im talking about
) is okay to do. But if you cast your mind back a few months ago, when you vented your frustrations with nani, in an essay, that was uncalled for and wrong.
November 25th, 2008 at 19:23
@Grognard: You cant sign a player before january, but you can have an agreement to sign a player in january. you can get every thing set like you normally would do for a transfer, everything accept sign the player. Hope that helps.
November 25th, 2008 at 19:24
@Stephen: Ribery would be a dream as he is every bit as good as Ronaldo in my books and has become an incredible free kick taker in the last year as well as a fairly prolific scorer for a wide midfielder. His touches and tricks are far more inventive and breathtaking than Ronaldo’s and his vision for making the great pass in the box is only surpassed by one Riquelme. But Bayern would have to be paid a king’s ransom to even consider parting with him. The other problem is that Ribery is very happy with the team, has loved life in Munich and has made very close friendships with some of the stars of the team most notably Luca Toni and Miro Klose just to name a few. If the mountains could grow and the seas could part and get him to come to United, not only would we become incredibly good and entertaining, but it would probably free the team to consider letting Ronaldo finally go and then taking that money and really stocking the team with depth. Ribery is that bloody good.
November 25th, 2008 at 19:27
@Grognard: you are allowed to sign a player at any point in time during the course of a normal year, but it will not be completed until the transfer window is opened, it’s sort of like pre-ordering, you can buy it early and wait to receive the product
Remember that’s what we did with hargo anderson and nani last year?
November 25th, 2008 at 19:29
@ Gronard – Yeah like Dan said, you can put deals in place. Plus transfer windows don’t always exist in other leagues at the same time. I’m pretty sure when we signed Obi Mikel it was in the middle of the season, ditto Manucho. Personally I think this is all crap. Until I see it on manutd.com I’m not buying it.
I really really hope we put out a performance tonight. Fingers crossed. Oh and I want us to win 4-3, with Rossi netting a hat trick against us. I miss that boy. Used to watch the reserves just to see him. A modern day Del Piero…
November 25th, 2008 at 19:36
Team news?
November 25th, 2008 at 19:41
@magno: It really is amazing how a footballer can just lose it when a manager either plays him out of position, incorrectly or just benches him for a while. The heart and the mind are fragile and I find it amazing how a lifetime supply of skills and talent can just blow away in the wind.
When I was a teen I was a very talented pencil artist (although I could never make a pencil disappear like the Joker). I could draw anyone perfectly and I was also very adept at drawing caricatures of famous people. Then I turned 14 and went to high school and got involved in sports and girls and gave up my passion for drawing. I tried to pick up my lost passion in my mid twenties only to realize that I had totally lost the ability. I always assumed that it was a talent that was God given but I was wrong. Oh perhaps I could get it back if I worked hard at it and practiced but the fact that it didn’t just come back instantly shocked me. Point is that if you don’t use it, you lose it. Tevez has had to sit a lot and accept a role completely unfamiliar to him. And when he has played he has been asked to do unnatural things on the pitch that are neither his game nor his interest. I don’t blame Carlos for his loss of form and confidence. One man is to blame for that and it’s our increasing going into senility Manager Fergie.
So I’m sure he will start Tevez tonight and have him play the RWB position in a setup designed to come out of Spain with a 0-0 draw. No Ronaldo, no Berbatov and no EVDS, trust me, the Gaffer is not going to offer us anything entertaining or ambitious tonight. I almost don’t even want to watch the game for fear of wasting 2 hours of my life. No tonight he will enter another chapter in United’s quest to mediocrity by ordering his best 10 men behind the ball imitation since Derby last came to town.
And as for Calito, expect him to be subbed off for an Anderson in the 60th minute. Expect a start for Park and forget seeing Rafael. This is going to be a defensive stalemate mentality to steal that valuable point. Truthfully, a nice ass kicking by Villarreal may do more good for us and change the climate and mentality of the Boss than anything. The game hasn’t even started and I’m already disgusted with things. Thanks a lot Fergie for poisoning this entire season with your negativity and fear tactics. And I’m the one constantly attacked for being negative. Just once I’d like it if Fergie would shock me with an attacking game on the road.
November 25th, 2008 at 19:44
@Grognard: Even more than his playing skills (which are truly world class btw), the one aspect that makes me dig Ribery is his humbleness and his simplicity. The lad is a genuine top bloke, funny and all, whereas with Ronnie we are somewhat “constrained” to support the player…
November 25th, 2008 at 19:46
@Rahul: We’re missing a lot more than Count Berbatov mate. We’re missing the real Sir Alex Ferguson most of all. We’re missing Carlos Queiroz, we’re missing our youth and above all, we are missing team mission and style of play that has carried this team for 20 years.
November 25th, 2008 at 19:46
@Grognard: yep, your completely right. pre-season, tevez was in the form of his life, rooney didnt play a single match in preseason. when the season comes along, who does old red nose pick? guess.
this match is pissing me off as well. im sick of seeing park, and giggs, im sick to death of the sight of rooney and tevez. God, fergie needs to sought this out, either he gets CQ back, or he GTFO of united.
November 25th, 2008 at 19:47
@ Grognard – Totally agree with your pessismism, but not quite resigned to us failing yet. Let’s give Fergie a chance. He did say he was going to start Rafael, for example.
Probably best thing for the match would be an early Villareal goal. Team should be out soonish, will be able to tell more from that. But I guarantee we won’t be 442.
November 25th, 2008 at 19:50
@Stephen: Doesn’t it just get to you that it’s the foreign guy with attitude that gets picked on when things go bad? Never is there an attack of that nature against the real culprits of this mess. Instead lets attack our best player who is also working his ass off and getting hurt in the process. All because he made a mistake during the Summer and because he doesn’t act like a common Pleb and be more humble like the rest of making a dollar and change. Hopeless wannabe’s lashing out at a millionaire player who is not English. Gee, I never thought I would see that from the English
Bottom line, the Ronaldo bashing makes those who are bashing him look worse than he could ever look. Small, petty and oh so bitter. Quite sad really, don’t you think?
November 25th, 2008 at 19:51
@Beachryan: Hold your breath on rafael, fergies word means nothing when he says he is starting a player.
November 25th, 2008 at 19:52
don’t forget to post links for streams, please.
THANKS!
November 25th, 2008 at 19:54
@Traverse: Actually that is a valid point. If you are going to bring in a player like Berbatov and then alter your teams style of play, then realistically it would make sense to have a backup that can play a similar if not perfectly similar style to Berba. With Rooney we have Tevez and that is similar. Problem is, there aren’t that many players who play as similarly to Berba as one might think. He is truly a strange hybrid of styles. So therefore buying him was a risk as much as buying Cantona was. And lets face it, if one goes back, United did not play very well during those games and one entire season when Cantona was not available during his tenure with the club.
November 25th, 2008 at 19:55
*sigh* has anyone got team news
November 25th, 2008 at 19:56
@Rahul: Dream on mate. If we see good football tonight I may need to go to the hospital and get my heart checked. It’s not going to happen. The quality of play in late first round Champions League teams that look to have qualified is always poor. Add to that Ferguson’s negative tactics and we are in for a real bore fest.
November 25th, 2008 at 19:58
———Thomas——–
Oshea-Rio–Evans—Evra
—-Fletch–Carrick—-
——-Anderson——
–Ronaldo——-Nani–
——–Rooney——-
I stand corrected
November 25th, 2008 at 20:00
@Beachryan: like i said, no rafael…
November 25th, 2008 at 20:00
@colver: Lets not forget that he leads the EPL in assists. He’s much more than a goal scorer. In fact when it comes to goals he is no different than Cantona who never scored more than 18 in an EPL season and who averaged 14 in his United career. Yet he is the King. It’s the assists and the presence in the middle that makes the difference st a bonus. He makes everyone around him better by opening space and possibilities. If we added a Diego or Arshavin to that lot then we would truly be awesome.
November 25th, 2008 at 20:00
@Grognard: Interesting point you make, and I know where you’re coming from. I ‘used ‘ to be an artist, a creator of new things let’s say. If you have the talent you have to stimulate that, like a Ninja
Never rest on your laurels and just say, I’m the best. Every morning when you wake up you are nothing…you have to keep that thing going, improving.
It must be difficult in a team sport with a manager, it takes away your creativity to an extent, having to rely on others and to take their criticisms, but in another way a TEAM can create something amazing from the different styles together. The poor lambs…
November 25th, 2008 at 20:02
Anderson playing in the hole? Oooohhhhh that sounds good!
BTW if anybody would like an always-on (from whenever I have checked) decent stream for MUTV, here it is;
http://mutv.markenet.fr.cr/
Great for reserves games and pre-match stuff, plus lots a class replays when nothing else is on!
Anderson to score tonight! Come on the lads!
Peas out for now.
November 25th, 2008 at 20:02
Grognard, gotta say im agreeing with what ur saying about fergie. I hate to say things about this man cos he is like a God to this club but if u have gotta be honest maybe it would have been better if he and the legends (the likes of giggs, nev, edwin and scholes) had retired last year and some1 else come in. I have said it many times that i love watching barcelona and i consider ourselves and them very similar teams in the way they are run and things like that. The way i see it we are like how they were last year. They finished miles off the pace last year and now they got rid of the deadwood, have a new boss and r doing really well. Maybe its just me but i dont think we will win anything this year and i dont care what any of u say when u say its only early on, come off it theres no hunger in this team. I hate saying it but like what grognard said i can see us going for the draw today and fergie wud never have done that a few years ago. Maybe it was time to go last year. By the way i know its controversial so please dont shoot me down but its just what im starting to feel as this season is progressing.
November 25th, 2008 at 20:02
@Stephen: I’ll bloody guarantee you Park tonight. Written in stone.
November 25th, 2008 at 20:05
Oh, and for those who dont have ITV lol or more likely, Non-UK IPs and watch to watch online heres a stream, in-browser too.
http://www.ustream.tv/videoplayerpopup/channel/372091
Peas out :0)
November 25th, 2008 at 20:06
@Beachryan: This news will just warm the heart of our strongest Nani supporter Craig. By the way, where the Heck are you Craig? We’re missing your insight and wit bro.
November 25th, 2008 at 20:09
@m34ch: Thank you for the link! I was waiting for it! Love ya! *Not a gay moment*
Come on you reds!
November 25th, 2008 at 20:10
no tevez, this just confirms what i have been thinking since the day we bought berba, he will be leaving come the summer. I really hope tho that fergie gives frazier campbell a chance cos he wud be absolute quality believe me.
November 25th, 2008 at 20:12
@Evad from Manchester: No worries fella! Lets hope the boys turn up tonight, really hoping for Nani to have a blinder and Anderson to bag one!
Come on the Lads!
November 25th, 2008 at 20:12
@dan(u-ol): Perhaps but we are occasionally driven by our emotions. The big difference is that some players deserve a stiff dose of public displeasure where players like Ronaldo who play very well for us and give 100% don’t. If a player deserves our condemnation then fine, but not if they don’t. Last season when Nani got that stupid red card he deserved everything I gave him. It was a bonehead play and he cost the team three games without his presence. So I feel totally justified in my condemnation at the time. But I am fair and you will note that this year I have been a loud voice calling for more playing time for Nani. I didn’t hold a grudge but yet many are holding a grudge against our best player who continues to play exceedingly well for us and who is literally busting his ass out there for us. Now you tell me who is wrong here?
November 25th, 2008 at 20:13
@dan(u-ol): Yes it does, thanks. I was kind of thinking that but I wasn’t sure. Thanks again Dan my boy.
November 25th, 2008 at 20:18
@Beachryan: I would be totally shocked if he were to start Rafael for two reasons. Villarreal will come out and try to win and score in front of their home fans. Rafael’s one weakness right now is his defensive positioning. O’Shea would have been the way to go. Also, the less the Spanish media see of Rafael right now, the less seduction and tampering we can expect regarding him from the likes of Barca and especially Real Madrid in the near future. I hate advertising to those cunts what we have because they always seem to want our best young talent.
November 25th, 2008 at 20:20
@Beachryan: Well there you go, just what I expected. WAIT! What’s this Nani instead of Park? It’s official, Fergy reads Red Rants and he is tired of Grognard’s negative bashing. He want’s to prove the Grognard wrong. Bring it on Gaffer, bring it on.
November 25th, 2008 at 20:21
@Grognard: grog, that is the team, rafael is NOT starting.
in fairness to jonny, its more about us seeing rafael then him playing shite!
November 25th, 2008 at 20:25
@magno: This is why I used to be a pretty damned good golfer until my back made it impossible to play. I used to be a 7 handicap and pretty damned good but the reason I was good in golf was because it was an individualistic sport that allowed me to best use my imagination and god given ability. No coaches or teammates to bring me down. It was me vs the course. And I worked at it a lot until I got to the point where I had a dozen rounds in my life where I shot par or better on a course. Far from being Tiger or Jack but pretty decent considering I never had a coach and taught myself. In fact I received my own golf teaching certificate in university as part of my Physical Education minor. That is why I love golf. It’s all about me and I can only blame me if it goes wrong. Although some courses were to blame too of course.
November 25th, 2008 at 20:25
Man Utd: Kuszczak, O’Shea, Ferdinand, Evans, Evra, Ronaldo, Fletcher, Carrick, Nani, Anderson, Rooney.
Subs: Foster, Giggs, Park, Vidic, Rafael Da Silva, Gibson, Tevez.
Poor Tevez left out again but the line up makes sense. We have enough defensively in our team to stop them scoring and with Ronaldo, Rooney and Nani we have a three man spearhead that will have complete license to attack and give their defence hell!
Based on the selection I think I have worked something out. Fergie doesn’t rate Nani defensively so if we are going with 4-4-2 he balances Ronaldo who is very much a winger if not a forward with Park who is more of a midfielder. With 4-3-3 it doesn’t matter if Nani loses the ball when he bombs forward because we have three in midfield to mop up after him.
Similarly Fergie likes to balance Evra on one side with Brown or O’Shea on the other.
It is strange we seem to like to attack down one flank and keep things tight on the other flank.
November 25th, 2008 at 20:27
@Matthew: And just when we are getting in the mood to let him have it for tonight he springs some major surprises and fields a lineup that I am totally in agreement with. Now hopefully they play in a way that promotes attacking football. Fergie can occasionally be a real enigma.
November 25th, 2008 at 20:41
@m34ch: “Anderson playing in the hole? Oooohhhhh that sounds good!”
November 25th, 2008 at 20:47
LET THE GAMES BEGIN
COME ON YOU REDS
ANDERSON-SON SON.. YOU KNOW THE REST
November 25th, 2008 at 20:48
Haha Ronaldo starts off with a foul on Senna who earlier this week said Ronaldo was overrated!
November 25th, 2008 at 20:49
Grognard, yeah agree, i thought we were dead cert to see park, neville and giggs playing. Thank the lord we have decided against that.
November 25th, 2008 at 21:23
lately i have noticed that we seem to be lacking creativity. rooney just doenst seem to beable to beat a man one-on-one anymore.
i think we are lacking that creative midfield player. i have been hopeing that player was going to be anderson, but i am losing faith.
hope he proves me wrong….
November 25th, 2008 at 21:27
except for ronaldo!!damn that was close
November 25th, 2008 at 21:33
what on earth has happened to anderson- jesus christ.
hope he duznt take nani off, would be useless for the lad.
guess a draw is all we need anyhow
November 25th, 2008 at 21:34
Tevez supersub – written all over it lol
Anderson just cant buy a goal right now, come on son – you can do it!
November 25th, 2008 at 21:34
Well that was a definite candidate for the dullest 45 minutes of football ever…..
We need to play more aggressively, otherwise we might end up losing top spot in the group and end up playing Barca or Juve
on another note, is O’Shea the worst passer in football?
November 25th, 2008 at 21:39
@weezy: Agreed. I saw more creativity from the defensive minded Marco Senna in one half than i saw from Carrick and Anderson and Fletcher. I will say though that Anderson has worked his ass off but the boy has no finesse skill with the ball or any ability whatsoever when it comes to kicking for goal. His kicking for goal looks so foreign to him and he seems very uncoordinated in that area of his game.
Credit to Fergie for at least fielding a positive lineup. Many might think it would have been more positive had Tevez been out there, but not based on his present form. We are unlucky to not have a few goals. Both Ronaldo and Fletcher had great chances and I think Rooney scored on that borderline offside call. Villarreal has shown me very little so far and it appears that Senna may not return as he looked hurt just before the half. That save on Ronaldo is really bothering me because it would have gone down as a stunning goal of the year candidate had it gone in. Ronaldo is truly a fantastic talent and we are not only blessed for having him, we shoot be thanking our bloody stars for having him. He is our total offensive production. We are nothing without him.
November 25th, 2008 at 21:39
Anderson takes no risks around the box. He has just been standing there hoping the ball comes to him. He is just afraid to attack the ball. There were times when the ball is bobbling around the edge of the box and it’s there for the taking, but Anderson just stands off and lets the Villareal player run it out. That ’shot’ at the end of the half was atrocious
Complete snorefest btw
November 25th, 2008 at 21:41
@m34ch: Yes we will see Tevez eventually in the second half which for me means absolutely nothing positive or encouraging. I’d rather see rafael because O’Shea is a total pratt in the offensive third of the pitch.
November 25th, 2008 at 21:44
@Vivek: yeah 1 misplaced pass and he’s terrible
interesting stat I heard during the weekend: O’Shea 100% pass completion 30 out of 30. Terrible rate isn’t it 
November 25th, 2008 at 21:46
@Grognard: I really try to think of it as a positive, every chance he gets is a chance to kick ass – and we need him out there doing his Tevez best. I know wishful thinking, and I hear you – I’m just hopelessly awaiting the time we turn back into the team that played so well that night against Roma, I still buzz off watching that game.
Anyways, come on the lads, we know you can do it!
November 25th, 2008 at 21:53
@Liam:
100% pass completion for O’Shea
Just watch the highlights again, watch how many times he passes to Villareal players
November 25th, 2008 at 21:54
fuck this shit
November 25th, 2008 at 21:55
He wasnt the only culprit though, Carrick and Anderson were both guilty at times
November 25th, 2008 at 21:58
how many games suspended if you punch a ref
November 25th, 2008 at 22:10
@gator: none if you’re John “Feckin” Terry
November 25th, 2008 at 22:16
why wait until now to make changes
it’s just stupid
Aalborg scored as well
November 25th, 2008 at 22:19
where’s tevez gone? WTF?!
November 25th, 2008 at 22:19
what a shitty game
November 25th, 2008 at 22:19
can u imagine….still no Tevez? its an embarrasment. what a shot to his confidence, fergie has single handedly ruined the boy. hope some1 who will actualy use him comes in and saves him from this nightmare.
absolutely awful man managemnet from fergie, shockin
November 25th, 2008 at 22:23
how very interesting
November 25th, 2008 at 22:23
i mean common to fuck ferguson. gibson ahead of carlito!?
its plain embarrasing
November 25th, 2008 at 22:23
now get the fuck up and score
November 25th, 2008 at 22:23
Are we trying to hurt Tevez, like deeply? I don’t understand. Why hasn’t he come on? Darren Gibson?
November 25th, 2008 at 22:24
noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
November 25th, 2008 at 22:24
Come on boys, theyre 1 man down, lets Get Em!
November 25th, 2008 at 22:24
OMG FOR FUCK SAKE, I CANT BELEIVE MY EYES…….PARK??????????
November 25th, 2008 at 22:25
PARK! WTF!?? WHERE THE HELL IS TEVEZ?
November 25th, 2008 at 22:35
grognard, whats a goal, i cant seem to remember what a goal is…
November 25th, 2008 at 22:36
boooooooo
November 25th, 2008 at 22:37
Park in few mins did what nani didnt do , that was more than nothing
Nani = sucks he isnt even for the future he is just a wannabe. this sucks i cant believe how they played what a disgrace everyone was bitching at the other
November 25th, 2008 at 22:37
I think this is the end of the road for Tevez. Its again a case of Fergie’s putting his ego ahead of the team. I think he just wanted to humiliate tevez so much that he would ask for a transfer.
November 25th, 2008 at 22:37
Anyone else get déjà vu? That felt just like Saturday. Villa, Villarreal what’s the difference I suppose
November 25th, 2008 at 22:38
I cant fathom how Capdevila can even begin to argue against his red card challenge on Ronaldo. Then he has the nerve to suggest that Ronaldo made a meal of it. Capdevila can go to hell as far as Im concerned.
This brings up a reoccuring issue surrounding Ronaldo. Everyone is convinced he is a diver and a cheat. I will be the first to admit that when he is frustrated he will start to go down easily and look to the ref for help. But for the most part he is legitimaly chopped down. He is by the far the most kick player in the Premiership. But to call him a dicing cheat is not fair. Gerrad is a diving cheat, and he has proven it time and time again.
November 25th, 2008 at 22:39
o’sheas passing was terrible at best, do not think otherwise. now all you tevez lovers, funny how when berba doesn’t play, we dont score.
November 25th, 2008 at 22:39
@Liam:
5 more letters.
November 25th, 2008 at 22:39
Can’t seem to score a goal even if our life depended on it.
November 25th, 2008 at 22:40
well i thought it was a decent performance and a decent game
November 25th, 2008 at 22:40
@ROOOONEY: Back to bed for you please.
November 25th, 2008 at 22:42
where are all the rooney slaters eh??? When he has an decent game you all shut-up but when its simply average or below par everyone gets on his back.
November 25th, 2008 at 22:44
WTF is with the lame-ass substitutions? Gibson and Park? Villareal must have been shitting in their pants. And Tevez on in the 85th minute? I hope Tevez leaves the club. He doesn’t deserve this.
November 25th, 2008 at 22:44
A good result but Id have liked us to have created better chances but Villareal were set up to defend. When a team does that and is disciplined we always seem to struggle to break them down. We just do not seem to have that spark of creativity needed to unlock a packed defence.
If teams try and attack us we can still rip them apart on the counter attack but if they defend we are out of ideas. This worries me!
Nani was woeful. Kept losing the ball and giving away fouls when he tried to win it back. Never came close to doing any damage which we needed him to do with Rooney up there on his own.
November 25th, 2008 at 22:45
fUCK YOU SAF.
WHY DO THAT TO TEVEZ? You just cant justify it
another weak, disjointed performance though. rather dissapointing eh!?
im still a firm beleiver but andersons performances this season have been near abysmal. He’l def become a top player but he’s well short of the mark jst now! worryingly so?? He looks so hesitant all the time?
Nani tried but was quiet i guess. still think he needs game time to improve. theres no point holding him back further coz he needs to play now, learn from his mistakes n all that.
Again as i was saying earlier, why the fuck couldnt we have subbed Ronaldo after 50 mins or so? jst unnessacery keepin him on!? lets hope that knee aint too bad.
J.evans looks steady and i highly rate Gibbo. strong lad……id gladly see him replace “fans new favourite” Fletcher. tell you what i wont miss his weak style of play one bit.
November 25th, 2008 at 22:47
Geez, I can’t believe I blew off a date for that snoozefest.
I know Villareal parked the bus but why oh why can’t we play patient build-up and pass the ball properly. I mean, that’s the only way to beat teams that set up camp in their half. You’d think by now, given the amount of teams that have realised this is the best way to stifle United, we would have learned how to build-up play patiently, snuff out the opposition and find those killer passes.
Seriously, if I was a coach and my team where playing United, all I’ll tell my players to do is defend and park their arses in our half, at least then United won’t score. ARRRGGHH!!
WTF is up with our technical team. Is it that the players can’t slow the pace down and pass the ball around? or is it that the technical staff can’t instruct the players on how to do this. I seriously don’t know at this point, but what I do know is this style of play against us has been a recurring theme this season and unless we find a way around it, we are in for a lot more boring/lackluster draws.
November 25th, 2008 at 22:51
@realred: what a well thought out post…
November 25th, 2008 at 22:54
@OllieY: Agree, Rooney was the one player really up for the game today…
Ronaldo, was just in a foul mood today. He was once again earmarked as prime target for the Villareal tackles, yet I cringed everytime he seemed to be passing his nerves on his team mates for one or two stray passes…
Oh, and did anyone notice? Ando got two, yes two(!) shots on target today!
Where are we going?!
November 25th, 2008 at 23:00
im gonna sleep and rest my eyes now, before grognard gives his match report. Lord knows it will be a big one.
To sum up what my match report would off been, berbatov>roovez.
November 25th, 2008 at 23:01
Terrible substitutions again by SAf…
This game was just begging for Rafael… There was virtually no aerial threat from Villareal and Oshea was abysmal going forward.
I also thought that Tevez could have got on earlier, but still I would have preferred Welbeck.
And Giggs too could have got on. We know he can’t start, but I think the one moment he can prove to be decisive is when opposition players have tired legs.
Oh well.
Still, good marks for Kuzcak and Evans today.
November 25th, 2008 at 23:12
WOW! Wasn’t that just fun as Hell?
I am truly tired of being negative and angry at what I am seeing but Fergie isn’t giving much of a choice now is he. This game was another clueless display of plodding unoriginal and unimaginative football that reminds me of the kind of shite offered to the Prem league by teams like West Ham and Bolton. Total RUBBISHHHHHHH!
My list of observations for the game as follows;
1. Nani has become a static player who plays most of the game with his back to the opposing goal. Where is the speed, the running at opposing defenders, the cutting in and taking an occasional shot and my God, where have those crosses from last season gone? He looks slow and often gets himself caught between a rock and a hard place and then unlike Ronaldo, has no idea how to knock the ball off a defender for a corner or throw in. Most of the time he is dispossessed far too easily. Sorry Craig.
2. We are just awful when it comes to short and one touch passing in the attacking zone. Our 1,2’s are non existent and far too often passes are played where nobody is which means no verbal communication amongst the payers. This team really needs a mid field general.
3. PIG has got to make better long kicks. Quite often he forces them and he is not very accurate. He’s just giving the ball to the opposition. His throws are decent though.
4. Villarreal gave the central midfielders room in the first half to move forward and attack but Carrick and Fletcher chose to play slow diagonal passes or back pass in their oh so typical plodding manner. Anderson at least showed enterprise and ambition.
5. We should have scored two or three tonight because Villarreal played with no desire and intention of attack tonight. They were playing right into our hands and if we had the desire and tactical setup to take it to them, we could have. What am I saying? It would still have been 0-0.
6. Carrick is slow footed and slow to react in European football. He just seems to be over matched and plays on his heels always looking like he is playing up hill. Quite a few poor passes in the first half but he did deliver that one great long ball to Rooney that Wayne tried to destroy again like he did against Villa.
7. Ronaldo is not going to survive the remainder of the season. He is target number one and Public Enemey #1 when it comes to opposing teams and they are intentionally targeting him for special abuse. He had quite the welt on his knee after the vicious CaptheDevil tackle. He is a dead man walking. No referee or league seems to care about protecting the worlds best player. I bet if he was playing for Madrid action would be taken to protect him. Just my opinion.
8. The team at many points in the game but mostly in the second half seemed to be so static. At one point I counted six United players on the screen that were static and motionless when Carrick had the ball in midfield. A major departure from the team that beat Roma 7-1 I’d say.
9. Rooney was running hard all night and through the whole night I remember one long direct ball that was aimed at him that was even designed for him to chase down and take a shot. If you are going to play him up front and alone, then get him the ball or set him after some long speculative balls. He has a way of making something out of nothing in situations like that.
10. It is clear to me from tonight’s game that Cristiano Ronaldo is 100% of our offensive attack and emphasis. We are so one dimensional it is sickening to see. And I could see this happening not even last year but the year before. We are clueless at creating any kind of offensive chance where Ronaldo is not involved. Pretty sad and pathetic really, and above all becoming more easier to defend against.
11. I give Anderson credit for having a decent game and for taking 4 or 5 shots at goal. His first half shots were just embarrassingly bad but his second half shots were at least on goal. But he has to realize that he will beat no goalkeeper from 25 yards out with slow worm killers. At least he is trying to do the offensive minded thing. He was also the single midfielder in the game that dribbled and passed the ball forward all game.
12. Carlos Tevez? What the Hell was Fergie getting Carlito up in the 69th minute and then not using him until minute 86? Is that a message designed to completely piss of the Argentine? Enough with the negative head games Fergie. You’ve already destroyed the player’s confidence. There’s nothing more you can do to him. Instead you pull a boner and bring in Gibson and Park before him in a 0-0 game where the opposition had no intention of attacking in the last 15 minutes.
13. Capdevilla should be taken to the nearest swamp, shot and placed in cement shoes for his studs up foul on Ronaldo. He deserves Soprano’s style retribution and needs to sleep with the fishes. Fucking hack and classless Spanish cunt.
14. Park for Nani? When it is clear Ronaldo is hurting and should not have been playing in the first place. How desperate are you Fergie? You know you are shite without Cristiano and you even fear taking him off late in a game when he is clearly knackered and hurting. What are you thinking Boss.
15. Tevez shoukld have come on for Ronaldo and Park should never have come on if we had any intention of trying to steal a win. With Park on we lost all our shape and our play in the last ten minutes was just comical.
16. Like I said before the game began, it would end up 0-0 and that it would be two hours of my life I’d never get back. And I’m truly pissed. But we are through to the second round like true champions and boy do we look it eh!
November 25th, 2008 at 23:14
@OllieY: You please very easily mate.
November 25th, 2008 at 23:17
dan: what, as aposed to ” back to bed for you please?!”
November 25th, 2008 at 23:18
@OllieY: Ahem…… hello……. didn’t anyone see the two blatant dives by Rooney? If ronaldo did that, then all hell would’ve broken lose. Since it was Rooney, i guess nobody noticed it
November 25th, 2008 at 23:19
@realred: My God 20 years and 22 trophies later and it’s FUCK YOU SAF? Even I don’t go that far mate. I am pissed greatly at the Boss and I may be headhunting when it comes to his job but at no time would I be so crude and completely disrespectful to him. He has pissed us all off of late but I still love the man and appreciate all that he has done for us. My tirades are intended to ask questions of him and his tactics. I’d never tell him to go fuck himself. He deserves more respect from all of us than that. To question him and to dislike what he is doing is normal and it is right. To insult him and curse him is within your right mate, but I for one am calling you on it and I think you are wrong.
November 25th, 2008 at 23:19
Well at least the good thing is we are through now and probably as group winners so its not all bad.
November 25th, 2008 at 23:20
@Gabriel: Was that date a potential shagging event? If so you should shoot yourself.
November 25th, 2008 at 23:24
@NicoQB: I’m telling you right now that Ronaldo is feeling a lot of pressure to prove his worthiness as the world’s best player and he feels handcuffed by referees who are in no way or form respective of his ability or his right to proper protection. This is why he does the occasional dive. Because he gets fouled 9-10 times. He is being brutalized and mugged out there. Honestly, if I was him I would question why I bother even playing the game when the rules and officials cannot respect the beauty and artistry he brings to the game enough to protect him and players like him.
November 25th, 2008 at 23:26
@dan(u-ol): Thanks mate for pooing on my thunder.
November 25th, 2008 at 23:27
good job you aint the pope or nothin then aint it Grognard,
Call me out all you want but i stand firm by my previous statement.
I give the man more credit u can imagine having supported his team for the last 18yrs.
I now though am convinced he is holding back the development of our squad on a whole bunch of levels.
Any other top coach would do a better job in managing the squad in both a technical capacity as well as a personal one & for that reason i can justify my comment, at least to myself.
…….Id go some way calling you a hypocrit mr. Grognard….
Good night
November 25th, 2008 at 23:29
@Matthew: Tell me mate, does the team you saw play tonight look like a team you could see playing in the final in Rome in May? Who cares if they are through. We would have to be delusional to think that this team will make it to the semi-finals or even quarter-finals based on current form. I think we are just prolonging our eventual agony. This team is rubbish personified.
November 25th, 2008 at 23:34
@realred: Pal there is nothing hypocritical about what I said. Go ahead and criticize him to your heart’s content. He deserves it and you have earned the right to do so. You just don’t need to be crude about it. I mean telling Sir Alex Ferguson to FUCK OFF just doesn’t sit well with me. Telling him he is losing it or he has done a terrible job or has even gone senile sounds so much softer than telling the great man to f off. I’m not being hypocritical mate. I’m just a little more respective of a man who has brought me 20 years of joy and pride. He deserves better and more constructive criticism than that. So good night to you and don’t hold my comments to you against me. They are not meant maliciously or to offend you. They are just meant to make you reconsider your anger a little bit better.
November 25th, 2008 at 23:35
@Grognard:
probably u’kno.. it was the movies, My Best Friends’Girl. Was actually lloking for an excuse to blow that one off, can’t stand girly flicks. 
Speaking of things I can’t stand, watching United play this unimaginative, unmotivated and cowardly brand of football is high on my list. Geez, what happened to the United of the past two years. The cavalier team that always went for the jugular? Is Fergie getting too cautious with Old age? and worse, is the team replicating this cautiosness on the pitch? I don’t know, but we look very average and uniinspired nowadays and it’s gonna take a 180 by the team to convince me otherwise. Seriously Groggy, what is wrong with this team?
November 25th, 2008 at 23:39
well grog im sorry but im a passionate supporter. wasnt aware that this place was so closely regulated in terms of content?
let me ask you then fine sir, do you wish that i issue SAF a public appology??!
….somehow i dont think the big man himself would be too bothered with my opinion of him so i strongly feel you should care even less so!
sorry but what iv seen this season has deeply frustrated me
November 25th, 2008 at 23:39
Bleh, tepid performance, it wasn’t bad but was lacking goals. Oh well it gets us true and now we can field the kids against Aalborg at home which i think we should win.