Apr 24
Barcelona 0-0 Manchester United – Much better than last season
Red Rants had some problems in the last 10 hours or so – first our server was under maintenance for a looonnnggg time (they picked one hell of a time to do maintenance), and then there was a problem with our database that didn’t allow people to post comments. Both problems are resolved now, and I thank you for your patience and hope that you haven’t migrated somewhere else in the meantime.
We will be shifting servers in the near future to avoid any such future problems.
Ok, back to the match itself. In case you haven’t seen the game, I suggest finding a place to download it and watch it again, or trying to catch a replay on TV. My hangover prevents me from going play by play over last night’s events, although to the teams’ credit I managed to go through the whole game without sleeping (as opposed to the shit on a stick affair at Anfield when I dozed off 10 minutes into the game). If you’re pressed for time, read the beeb’s report or guardian’s minute-by-minute coverage.
What I DO want to discuss though, is the nature of United’s performance and what that holds for the coming days (both the Chelsea game and the second leg at Old Trafford).
United played quite well for their standards
Remember, we’re not Liverpool or Chelsea – we didn’t have the players in midfield or upfront to hussle and play ‘direct’ football. Some of you might disagree, but comparing United’s performance to Liverpool’s last year would be unfair for two reasons – one, the different styles of play, and two, the fact that Barcelona gave away that game last season with some shocking defending.
Instead, we were on the backfoot throughout, with Barcelona controlling the midfield through possession and their much better use of it. The crowd was a factor as well (in motivating the home side) and I hope United fans heed Fergie’s request to create a special atmosphere in the return leg to urge their team on.
We’re not Arsenal either – our game is usually played on a higher tempo with less emphasis on the short passes (although they’re still there). Arsenal might have done better against Barcelona, but that’s as much to do with psychology (they’ve done well away in Europe in recent years, United haven’t) as with their style of play (remember Villareal away in the 05/06 season? shambles…).
But the most important (and for me, positive) thing is that this side played a lot better against an arguably more dangerous side (in terms of attacking talent across the pitch) than it did last year away in the Champions League semifinals. There’s a lot of talk about how United should win this and play like that but at the end of the day, this was a bunch of kids who’ve shown considerable maturity in standing up to a strong team and come away without being embarrassed. United learned their lessons from last season and it showed in the way priority was given to closing down attacks and defending as a team.
That penalty
The penalty, without a doubt, changed the game. If it had gone in, there was always going to be more goals in it – a score draw or a 2-1 to either side was quite possible then because it would have given United more confidence and given Barcelona the added incentive to go forward and attack.
Ferguson said that perhaps the penalty came too early for United and Ronaldo was caught a bit unprepared. I find that true to an extent – the pressure got to Ronaldo and it might not have gotten to him if the pen had been in, say, the 10th minute. As things were, it was a surreal moment and too good to be true to be given a penalty in the first minute in a Champions League semifinal at the Camp Nou.
Ronaldo missed (for the record I think with his European experience Hargo should have taken it, but hindsight is 20/20 and you’d have bet the house on Ronny scoring from a pen against Barca), and both teams were cautious after that. Barcelona focused more on possession and control than outright attack, and United, aware that they had rustled up a nest of bees, were cautious and focused on nullifying Barcelona’s threat as opposed to doing any serious foraging up front by themselves.
United did have a strong shout for a second penalty around the 29th minute, but that wasn’t given. Can’t say much about that, except that Ronny would have tried again and I’d still bank on him putting that one away. Should we now throw a strop and say we were denied clear-cut scoring chances by a referee? Nah, we’re not going to berate the ref. Unfortunately, this happens when you rely on single individuals to referee high-pressure games where something as obvious as home crowd pressure (not to mention the fact that it’s harder to give a second penalty than it is to give the first one) can influence the ref’s decisions. As Fergie said, you don’t expect to get one penalty at Camp Nou so to get a second there was no chance. At least that’s better put than doubting the integrity of the referee, which surprisingly hasn’t earned Rafa Benitez any fine up till now…
Team selection
Unfortunately Vidic was ill but Wes Brown did a good job as his replacement. Brown is a confidence player and he grew into his added responsibilities yesterday. He’s a great asset to have in the squad with his experience, loyalty and defensive abilities. Sure, he’s not a natural right-back, but of all the center-backs playing at right-back for the top four this season, who’d you back? Exactly…
Ferguson held back Nani and Anderson for the next two games, and when you think about it, this time around we have players we can rely on to freshen things up and still win games for us. Come Stamford Bridge, I would expect at least one of these 2 to get a starting role. Strength in depth, coupled with maturity and experience, gives us a much better chance of progress this season than it did last season.
Park, Scholes and Carrick played an important role in ‘getting the job done’ without making too many mistakes. EVDS put the defence under pressure a bit with a few erratic clearances but was otherwise solid. Hargo had a decent game as well and hopefully he’ll be in midfield for the return leg alongside Anderson to provide the team with some added bite. It was also interesting to see United play Rooney on the wing because it was a testament to Fergie’s flexibility and that of his players as well. How many strikers do you know who, despite being first-choice for their team, will willingly take on a defensive role in midfield?
Looking forward
It’s Stamford Bridge and then back to Old Trafford for the next 2 parts of the ‘most important time of our season’. We could lose against Chelsea and still win the Premier League, but because of the lack of an away goal we now need to beat Barcelona at OT.
And if we can beat Real Madrid 4-3, and AC Milan 3-2 – I see no reason why United can’t win again against top European opposition at the Theatre of Dreams. We’re good enough to win the next two games, and at the very least I think we’ll pick up a point at Stamford Bridge and progress to the Champions League final to play … Chelsea … in Moscow.
Over to you.
Related items from Red Rants:
- Manchester United vs. Barcelona: Champions League Final Live Blog
- United Close Out U.S. Tour With Barcelona Rematch
- Barclona v Man Utd: Preview
- A disgruntled fan’s views on the Barca game
- AC Milan v Barcelona – Champions League Quarter Final Preview
Tags: Match Reports · UEFA Champions' League
Opti (541)
RedDevilEddy (459)
Stephen (454)
Craig Mc (344)
Moscow is my heaven (272)
come on people the added incentive old trafford is gonna be deafening i’m ready for one the best games in modern history!
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[Utsav]
Agree with points. 1, 2, and 5!
Especially 5…I think the first goal at OT (2nd leg) is super crucial. I don’t think SAF is going to go all out at OT, although he says so now. He knows it’s better to be solid and get a goal than try to be desperate from the start. We all know how Kaka almost won Milan the game last year all by himself. True, we nicked it in the end, but dyu expect things to go our way all the time? I reckon the match at OT will be the ‘game of the season’ – I can either see a win for us, or a 3-3 draw.
Also, I was disgusted with Ron yesterday, not for missing the penalty but for acting like such a spoilt kid afterwards. It’s as if he knows the whole world’s eyes are on him, and that makes him a bit more proud and haughty on the night. Stop whining for every foul mate and don’t wave your hands at your teammates all the time! He better be true to his word and get us the winning goal at OT.
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(D Game)
You’re correct about Betis. But you need to realise that the game you refer to is a stand alone league match. If it were the CL final, we would’ve given a proper go. Also, its a valid point that you need to beat the best teams to win the CL.. and so we will at OT…
Its a 2 legged game. Its half time and its 0-0. Plus its at OT now. Not that bad a scenario, eh?
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Gotta love Ronaldo promising to score next week at Old Trafford. Give him points for courage, but he’s setting himself up for a world of hurt should Barca pull it off. I think Man. U. should take the 0-0 and run with it; it’s a good result considering Barca owned the run of play for the most part.
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ronaldo must not take free kicks and penalties from now…like that to hargo or tevez! scholes must not start! but if based on current scenario and trend….wif andy rested, he will start at chelski and then scholes will start again on wed! bugger!
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Excellent defensive performance/disgraceful attacking performance would be my summary of the game. 35% of possession for supposedly the best team in Europe was humiliating. Fair enough, Barca, as the home team, would be expected to dominate posseission but you would expect something a lot closer like 55:45 in favour of Barca.
Stating the obvious I know, but a special mention to Rio who was a colossus in defence once again, and Brown and Evra, who had blinders next to him. SAF’s attacking tactics were eccentric to say the least; what with Ronaldo and Rooney swapping jobs for the night, and playing Tevez in no mans land, where all three tried their best to play the Invisible Man (with great success I might add).
0-0 is a good result, considering the performance, but I agree with the people who say that this has the potential to come back and bite us on the backside. Who remembers when we played Barca’s rivals Real Madrid the year after the Treble? We drew 0-0 at the Bernabeu in the first leg and everyone was hailing it as a brilliant result and installing us as hot favourites to progress. What happened next? We proceeded to let Madrid kill us on the counter at OT and race into a 0-3 lead, eventually losing 2-3. Not saying that will happen this time round, but Barca have the same kind of quality as that Madrid side to do something similar. You don’t even need to go that far back in time actually; even this season Milan secured a goalless draw as the Emirates and we all know what happened next……
Having said that though, with our fantastic home record in this competition, I fully expect us to beat Barca at OT and progress to the final, expecially if that man Anderson starts. It’ll be a nervy game, but I think we’ll edge it 2-1 in the 2nd leg.
PS Kienu, I think that’s a tad harsh. Ronaldo is still the man for penalties! Though Hargo should be 2nd choice penalty taker.
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Wat are you talking about Kienu ‘ronaldo must not take free kicks and penalties from now’ he missed 1
pen and suddenly he shouldn’t take them anymore!!! He is one of the best penalty takers in the world
and his free kicks aren’t the worst. Ronaldo should take free kicks from long range and Hargo from
short but Ronaldo should definately still take pens.
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ok we got a point away in the nou camp, but how?
Our brilliant defence? Barca’s lack of penitration in the final third? our free flowing attack minded style of play? NOT!
From a football fans point of view, lastnight was attrocious, United treated the ball like something from the middle ages black death period, all we needed was a bell ringer shouting “plague plague unclean unclean”
What the fuck happened to attack attack attack? Is this the way we want to progress through competitions? like a boring Arsenal from the nineties? liverpool in the eighties/today? chelsea today?
We are UNITED, a club that prides itself on the way we play football, we have honour, pride and confidence in our abilities, at least i thought so. Can you imagine Duncan Edwards, Bobby Charlton, Harry Gregg or Denis Viollet not getting at least one shot on goal on target in the second half? Yes, they defended like a team but also attacked in numbers too.
Surely in this year of all years, we owe it to the memory of those greats who perished in Munich, to play with conviction and style. Bottom line is that the Barca team were there for the taking, we could have beaten them easily and taken it really handy in OT next week. But hey its only half time, and we’re gonna stuff them next week and all will be forgotten, or will it?
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Lahm contract negotiations break down, his manager says he will probably leave in the summer
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Since it took a long time and effort to write it I am posting my game and player reviews on this post because of the fact that site went down for a time yesterday and because it looks like everybody has moved on to this one.
Well this game ended pretty well like I predicted. I thought both sides would be good for one goal a piece but as it turned out, 0-0 was not that far off from what I felt would be the final score. Where to start? This game has positives and negatives for United. Let me start by eating crow once again regarding the selection of Paul Scholes. Every time the Ginger Ninja starts to look over the hill, he comes back and proves me wrong with a great defensive performance tonight. The team played a fantastic game of zone defense and really soaked up the pressure well. Not once did I feel that Barca had a true scoring chance. All they had all evening is a number of half chances and speculative efforts. Had Ronaldo scored on his woeful penalty attempt, I think the game would have opened up a bit.
United’s game plan was perfect even though it wasn’t pretty or adventurous. A game like this requires more caution and courage in defense. The lads really played hard. Offensively they looked flat footed all evening and they were unable to string any passes together because they lacked that jump and the fact that Barca played a predictable press. After the first five minutes it was clear to me that Barca would have over 60% of the possession. United were terrible in counterattacks. They just couldn’t get into a higher gear and their passes and lack of imagination was stunning to watch. Yet, this was a very positive result. You have to love our chances back at OT. The away goal would have been sweet but I cannot believe that we are not going to beat them at OT, no matter how good they might be. They couldn’t get the job done against us tonight in front of a very loud pro Barca crowd. Their only chance at OT is if they catch us on the counter when we are attacking. With players like Messi, that’s possible but I think unlikely.
The three things that bothered me the most in this case were as follows;
1. Ronaldo has to stop crying after every foul that isn’t called in his favor. Enough already. Be a man and take it. It’s causing him to lose his focus and referees are not calling them on him not so much because of his diving, but because of his attitude towards them.
2. Wayne Rooney should have been scratched for this game. Not only was he unfit and totally useless, but playing him in a position like RMF behind Ronaldo wasn’t only neutralizing his skills, but incredibly stupid on Fergie’s part. What was the point? Park or Nani could have played that role with more success.
3. Not playing Anderson from the start was a mistake even though the result favors us. His pace and urgency may have helped on counters as well as helped us kick our game up an extra gear.
PLAYER RATINGS! PLAYER RATINGS! PARTY TIME EXCELLENT ….WELL;
EVDS 7.5/10 – Very solid game and made a few steady if unspectacular saves. Was well positioned all game but he did make a few poor clearances in the first half. Never looked like he would be beaten.
HARGREAVES 7.5/10 – Predictably never had the offensive influence in the game due to the pressure of the opponent but he defended like a true vet and like he has played that position all his life. How many threats can any of you remember that came from his side. It was clear they were going to pick on Evra instead. Good calm clearances all game long.
RIO 7/10 – At times he was magnificant but he was also slppy a few times on back passes and a few clearances that could have hurt us if it weren’t for Barca’s inability to take advantage of the gaffs. He commanded the high balls in the area and he never let anybody get behind us.
BROWN 7.5/10 – Very surprisingly strong performance. He looked calm and reserved and never made a wrong touch. Also made some good tackles and backed up Rio and Evra very well.
EVRA 8/10 – Was outstanding defensively. He had a massive job against Messi but did a decent job neutralizing him in the penalty area. Messi made some nice plays and moves but he never really got any shots on goal and his play making was off form thanks to the pressure and quality marking as well as tackling of the little Frenchman. His defensive game has really improved over the past 18 months.
ROONEY 4/10 – And trust me, I’m being kind. In all the years I have watched Rooney play, I have never seen him play so poorly or be so anonymous on the pitch. Clearly the lad was hurting but that doesn’t take away from the fact that he was tactically positioned poorly and that he did absolutely nothing when the ball was at his feet. No running and causing havoc. It was awful. I felt I was in a time warp and I was watching Rooney play at the age of 45. If he’s not better for Chelsea, sit him down.
CARRICK 5/10 – Carrick had a very poor game. Constantly made poor tackles drawing fouls, his passes were terrible and players were getting around him easily. His one great opportunity to lay in a pass to Ronaldo for a tap in goal was wasted when he uncharacteristically decided to take a crack with his left foot. We all no the result. A simple pass to any of three open targets in the 6 yard box would have given us a 1-0 win. Very disappointing performance.
SCHOLES 8/10 – For me he was the man of the match. His defensive play and surprisingly strong running and energy saved our bacon numerous times. Quite often it was he bailing out Carrick or Rooney from their poor touches or defensive errors. And he never laid off one poor pass all night considering Barca were using a press. He looked really young and energized tonight. The tactics and formation never really allowed him to do much offensively but boy did he do his job.
PARK 5/10 – Why was he out there? He clearly is not suited to a game where possession is important. Yes he works hard but most of the time nothing ever comes out of his effort. His passing was poor and he looked out of it quite a bit tonight.
RONALDO 6/10 – A poor game by his standards. He ran hard when he had the ball but quite often he was caught standing and looking at the play rather than sprinting to an opening. He was preoccupied with the referee all night long and he seems to get taken out of a game early if he is tackled harshly. Zambrotta should have received two yellows for all the poor and rough tackles on him. Still, he was nowhere to be found and his passes were terrible. And where was he for a shot or two. His free kicks were also useless.
TEVEZ 4/10 – Has just been cast as the lead in the new version of “The Invisbible Man†He was worse than Rooney because there was nothing physically wrong with him. Incredibly disappointing performance in a Spanish speaking city against his Argentine teammate Messi. I expected a heroic effort from him. Instead what I got was confirmation of everything I have said about him in the past. He is not good enough to start regularly for Manchester United. Doesn’t have the physical presence the ball holding skills to be a top line striker. He’s much better in short bursts late in a game but it was clear he didn’t have it today or Fergie would not have taken him off too after subbing Rooney off earlier. That was a clear statement from the Gaffer that he knew he was out of juice.
NANI 5/10 – Did nothing with his 20 minutes.
GIGGS – Not enough time to do much.
FERGIE 7/10 – Mixed result for the Gaffer. Tactically he got the game right as to what we had to do to keep Barca from scoring. Where he got things wrong was where he had Rooney play and why he had him and Park start.
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phoenix red: a point? This isn’t the Premiership, you know. What happened was we didn’t get the beating we got in the San Siro last year.
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fair enough, just got a bit lost on the rant, you know the point i was making though!
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Kienu, Ronaldo is one of the best penalty takers around at the moment, Hargo and Tevez don’t have the composure or the ability that Ronaldo has from the spot. Scholes was our second best player, behind Evra, so I don’t see why you want him dropped. Anderson is out of form and Scholes is our best passer in the team, if we are trying to keep possession then he should definitely have Scholes playing, Anderson rushes things too much.
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Got to agree with Conor, one penalty miss doesn’t get Ronaldo sacked from those duties. Scholes was great lastnight, played like his life depended on it, more of the same please Paul. Brown, Evra, Ferdinand and Hargo all deserve a mention for superb defending.
Michael,so thats alright then, we didn’t get beaten, they might not beat us next week but still get through. This years team is quite different to last years, we might win the european cup this year!
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there are 2 main observations that can be gained from last nights match.
1, defensively we were by and large outstanding, denying Barca any real opportunities of note and the team must be applauded for this.
2, going forward we were crap with a capital c and I lay the blame for this firmly at SAFs door. for a start we had a centre forward playing right wing and a right winger playing centre forward, the term square pegs in round holes comes to mind.
Added to this we had Park starting in the biggest game of the season when in reality the boy seriously lacks the quality to make a major impact at this level, especially when some one like Nani is fit and available.
Also the Carrick / Scholes partnership lacks energy and bite and opposing teams can dominate us to easily when they are together like last night and the Arsenal game.
Anderson can do everything that these 2 can do and also provide energy, pace,strength and the abillity to join in the attack which begs the question, why did he not start the game.
All in all, a draw is a decent result and I believe we have the players to beat Barca at home, my biggest concern is SAFs ability to select the right players to make the system work coz if he picks the same players next week that he did last night I would really be worried.
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Phoenix
We’ve not lost a match or drawn 11 consecutive times. that must tell you something. It is them that’ll have to grit their teeth and fight to go through.
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[Everyone]
Park was selected for his defensive abilities more than anything else. there, you must admit, he is better than all the other options we had…
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we’ve all been down this nerve racking track before. Our team doesn’t make it easy on us.
Yes, at the Theatre of Dreams our record is very impressive and long may it last! This is cup football, where form books get torn up! I hope that Fergie’s gamble pays off, many of us have questioned the master before and had to eat their words, me included!
The antidote to lastnight would be a fine attacking,free flowing performance from the lads in OT next week, with a 2-0 win.
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we have just to take care of chelski in the bridge before that, i’m sure we can win playing the UNITED WAY, come on you RED DEVILS!
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kienu man!
ronaldo put the penalty in the net in that super crucial game vs Arsenal (that too when he had to take it again). Yesterday too he would have put it 10/10 times if allowed again! There is no player in the world who doesnt miss penalties!
ronaldo has scored lots of very crucial penalties already (in WC and for united). The law of averages demanded a miss or two sometime (and that has happened). Hopefully he’ll be back to his best sooner than later.
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grognard,
you an anderson fan now mate? =)
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I understand the tactics…using Rooney and Park to track back and prevent their full backs bombing down the wings. Ideally we would have used Hargreaves as a right midfielder and played Rooney up top with Ronaldo but we needed Hargreaves at right back to allow Brown to play centre with Rio.
Really the main problem was that Tevez just wasn’t supporting Ronaldo adequately showing his limitations as a player. I believe the system would have worked if Rooney had been supporting Ronaldo and we’d been able to stick Fletcher or Hargreaves on the right. Then we would have been able to break more effectively rather than having to heave long balls in Ronaldo’s path only for him to be taken out by three Barcelona players.
Still one penalty, a couple of denied penalties and a gilt edged opportunity for Carrick to provide a tap in is pretty good. Barca only got the one clearcut chance, the rest were potshots from outside the penalty area
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people raving scholes for a great great defensive performance…scholes is an attacking midfielder and his job is to ensure that we show some attacking intent…he didn’t do his job and its been a similar story over the last couple of games..he defended well sure but it was quiet obvious to everyone that Barca’s attack buildup was quiet slow..enough time for our worst tackler in our team to pull it off…Anderson has to start in OT and move Hargreaves to midfeild as well….what i dont get is the impression people have that we played for a draw…we started of with our strongest attacking lineup possible..two strikers, attacking right back…a two man midfield ahead of our 3 man which we play consistently against top flight opponents…it seems to me that fergie while keeping Barcas slower paced game in mind decided to go for it, and nearly got away with it with the penalty but ended up on the backfoot instead and aimed for a counterattack game till the end
as for tevez, it doesn’t help when a striker has to drop back very deep to get the ball and start a move regularly for any sort of attack to start…..
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RMJ: Scholes’ job yesterday was not to provide us with attacking intent. He was put on to doa defensive job and he did it, without even getting booked. Well done,I say. Our lack of ability in forming counter attacks when we had the chances can be blamed on Rooney, Tevez and Park for the most part. They did their defensive jobs well, but every time Ronaldo burst away he had to go wide and then there was noone in an advanced position for him to give the ball to.
I feel that a player like Anderson (although not on current form) or at least a three man midfield would have provided us with more mobility, but still we got a decent draw. Evertone is praising Brown but I have to admit Ididn’t think that much ofhim. He wasn’t awful, but lost the ball cheaply a number of times and was caught out of position more than once. I agree with everyone that Ronaldo should keep taking our penalties, and I agree with SAF that it was too early in the game and he hadn’t settled yet. I honestly felt he was one of our better players
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RMJ: You can start with 10 strikers on the pitch but that still doesn’t make a side attacking if you tell them not to cross the half way line. We had two full backs who didn’t bother with overlapping runs, two wingers who acted as auxiliary full backs, a striker who who spent more time in CM than up front and two CM’s who rarely moved from their posts right infront of the backline.
If the intention from SAF was to use an attacking set up then the performance (offensively) was even worse than it first looked.
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Utsav; Please mate. At no time have I ever said that Tevez was not good enough to play in the BPL. He is more than good enough. He just isn’t the answer for our starting eleven at United. He would be a very good player for most teams in the league as he showed that with West Ham and even with us. And you are so sure to say that he is more suited for Spain yet his worst game of the year was at Barcelona. I’m not sure about that. I still think he would be a great super sub for us, although I admit he would be a very expensive super sub.
Regarding Ronaldo’s penalty taking. There isn’t a player alive who can go 100% against goalkeepers over and extended period of time. The law of averages says so. Ronaldo is an outstanding penalty taker and very good under pressure. He is elusive and decisive as well as, always hitting the ball with authority. In my opinion his miss was due to having to take it so early in the game. Always a tough thing because you are not even mentally in the game yet or truly warmed up.
RMJ; Oh please! Scholes job is to do whatever Fergie asks him to do on a giving day and under a specific circumstance. The game plan was simple. Defend at all costs and choke their midfield in our third of the box. Scholes and the team did it beautifully. Previous to that game he was very poor but not because of game plan, but because of poor execution and drifting out of the game. I have been one of Scholes biggest critics on this site, but I won’t let you put him down like that without defending him when he deserves praise for his performance.
Scholes was massive for us yesterday, end of story.
Fred the Red; I agree with all your points mate except I still feel that Scholes played very well. I too think the Scholes/Carrick partnership is limited.
Colver; Good analysis mate. I totally agree.
Primachenko; Contrary to what you and other might think I have always been an Anderson fan. He is currently limited in what he can offer us but the skills that he does have can be very useful in the right games and situations. He just needs to improve his stamina, and offensive game around the box. Once that happens, he could become an awsome talent. But he is not there yet.
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Grognard, I agree with you about Scholes, I was thinking more about Anderson instead of Carrick, switching Rooney and Ronaldo and playing Nani instead of Park.
This would have allowed us to play the same system, which worked a treat defensively, and also would have given us more of a threat on the couter attack.
The system SAF used last night I have no problem with, the players that he used and how he used them I do have problems with.
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Fred: taking out Park, putting Ronaldo on the wing and not playing Carrick would have taken away a huge part of our defensive capabilities.
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Fred: In addition the Scholes/Anderson partnership has not worked very well since the first two games it was used in. Regardless though we might as well of played him instead of Tevez yesterday.
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Michael, I agree that Ronaldo can be a bit lazy at tracking back so you you might have a point there but Anderson is definately a better defender than Carrick and Nani is at least as good as Park at defending and 10 times better going forward, in fact Nanis willingness to track back and work hard for the team has been a pleasant surprise to me.
The only weakening that I can see is possibly CR7 not tracking back.
We might lose a little defensively, but we would gain a lot going forward which wasnt so important last night coz we got a decent result but next week will be vital.
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JB, can you really say that with certainty, theyve only played a few matches together as a pairing, the other times Anderson played slightly advanced which is not what Im talking about. No matter what happened in the past matches the Scholes/Carrick paring has serious limitations that could cost us.
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Maybe they have only played only a few matches togther but they don’t strike me as a natural partnership. I remember quite a few people on here giving off stink the last couple of times the pairing was used. And you raise a good point yourself, do you send a virtually completely untested CM partnership in for the biggest game of the season?
Still even if a Carrick/Scholes pairing has limitations (and I agree, last night was not the night to be using that particular selection) it doesn’t mean a Scholes/Anderson one is the right choice. Two wrongs don’t make a right. It still confuses me that we changed from our staple diet of a three man CM right before a CL semi at the Nou Camp.
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Nani is willing but lacks the physical nature of Park. To out it bluntly, Park can hustle a team and Nani can’t. Plus, Nani could have easily been taken by the ocassion had he started (he was pretty anonymous while one). Carrick is far stronger defensively than Anderson. He doesn’t play the fast, physical game, admittedly, but he is great at cleaning up the ball and is normally assured in possession. Anderson’s tackling still leaves much to be desired, and he lacks the European experience that Carrick has (even if one season is the difference). While Scholes/Carrick has limitations and I much prefer us to play a three amn midfield, I think Carrick looks a far stronger player when forced to look after Scholes and provide possession and support. He did it fairly well last night. I’m in agreement with you that if I were Fergie I’d have set up to attack, or at least play high up the pitch for the counter, but that is to forget how strong Barca are on the counter too. We could still get shredded apart at Old Trafford. Barca’s form may not be the best but they are capable of motivating themselves for games like this, especially at home.
Our next two games will define our season. If we can hand out the batterings we are capable of giving Chelsea and Barcelona then we should have the confidence to go on and on. Perhaps SAF shouldn’t have played Rooney last night; the injury was clearly still affecting him. As I said before though, I think we are still in a great position and I don’t think Chelsea or Barca are good enough or confident enough to beat us. Everything hinges on the next week.
Oh and JB: agreed, there’s not really a good reason for us to have played 442 yesterday. It was an odd choice, and I think that an extra man in the middle would have vastly improved our ball retention.
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in other news, tribalfootball( the most reliable footy site one the website today) reports that carlosQ is building his own academy in Portugal, and is going to be linked with man utd, thats great if true, we will have 2 academies, unlike other teams, and would have twice as much success rate( which is still extremely low).
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Michael, we will have to agree to disagree on the Park vs Nani bebate and if you really pushed me to choose our best centre mid pairing for a team like Barca it would be Anderson and Hargreaves not Anderson and Scholes, although I quite like the idea of playing all three together with Hargreaves patrolling in front of the back four, Nani and Ronaldo as the wide men and Rooney up front giving us a 4 5 1 or 4 3 3 or whatever you want to call it formation coz last night wasnt quite a 4 4 2 line up nor was it a 4 5 1, it was somewhere in between which is why I think it was so inneffective going forward.
I believe this formation would allow us to play with greater ball retention in midfield and also provide the players with the ability to break forward to join Rooney at the pace required to cause them problems
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Although I understand why Fergie chose the tactics he did yesterday, I still feel that it sends a message to the rest of Europe of insecurity and lack of confidence. Brazil has rarely changed the way they play with their attacking nature and flamboyance to accommodate a cautious approach bordering on cowardice. There are those who will say that yesterdays performance was a brave footballing version of the Alamo. It worked but it also sent a very negative and discouraging message to the football world that when it is crunch time, negative and boring tactics that lack imagination and adventure is going to be the norm. It’s disturbing because Fergie himself has always been a proponent of attacking football. I think he is so determined to win a second CL that he is contradicting his normal tendencies and instincts. What I loved about the 98-99 team was their stubbornness to play defensive negative football. They were always on the attack. You don’t beat Juve 3-2 in Torino by playing the way we did yesterday.
It really is a shame that you have to play a negative and totally crappy style of football to get a result. And that is what has always been the problem with the Champions League. Too much is at stake and thus courage is always sacrificed unless you are Liverpool and you are 3-0 down at halftime. Then you can throw all your defensive caution out the window and sometimes you get lucky.
We have never been a good team when it comes to ball retention on the road in the CL. We honestly show the opposition, na matter who far too much respect in my opinion. But we are getting the results. Lets face it, we do not have the attacking midfielder who can link the defense with the attackers and we certainly don’t have the kind of quality strikers who can hold up a ball, turn and strike for goal or to get up high and head a cross. We are limited with a team that is slow of foot in the center of midfield. This makes it impossible to retain the ball when the opposition plays a press defense. This is why we have to have an old fashioned striker who is capable of going after a long ball or a cross. Bringing the ball up through the middle and with slow short passes isn’t always an option.
Finally, playing players when they are too hurt to contribute or playing them woefully out of position is not my idea of sending a positive mention to your fans, your team or the footballing world. And yet despite himself, Fergie gets a decent result because we are absolutely an awesome defensive team. Even with Ronaldo though, I think our offense is overrated and very one dimensional. Only with Hargreaves in the lineup to we ever even show another side to our game. These technical limitations need to be addressed. It’s irritating to think the opposition has very little preparations to do to defend against our attack in road games. All they have to do is figure out a way to beat our defense. We need to work very hard on our flat footed counter attacking game.
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Grognard, Im not saying that you are wrong but I think that the flat footed performances that you talk about could be a symptom of bad tactics and not utilising the squads full capabilities rather than a lack of potential in the current squad, although I do think the addition of a proper no 9 would greatly enhance our attacking options.
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Grognard; I have three things which I disagree with in your last comment:
1. Brazil rarely change the way they play with their attacking nature and flamboyance to accommodate a cautious approach bordering on cowardice? Have you seen the way they play recently, it is all based around a quick counter attacking team with a very solid defensive minded back 7.
2. It seems you are criticising SAF for playing Rooney while he was injured, yet you constantly call for players to play through the pain barrier. Rooney’s performance should show why they should not try and play through the pain, that and they are all “pussys”
3. We are one of the best counter attacking teams in Europe when we are on top form, but we have been on a bad run of form recently and the way our team was set up wasn’t exactly set up for counter attacking as our wingers were defending, Tevez was basically marking Yaya Toure and Ronaldo had to do everything by himself. The idea of quick counter attacking football shows the need for a Saha type striker rather than a Huntelaar, I know you will disagree but Saha was perfect for this style of play, Huntelaar is not.
Also, I realise that quite a few people are criticising Ronaldo’s performance as a lone striker and I just wanted to give my two pence on the topic. I think it is all a bit harsh on Ronaldo, he was playing as a lone striker doing a Saha type role. I blame SAF for this, because he, and other delusional fans, have this weird idea that because Ronnie has strength, pace, finishing ability and heading ability he can be a striker. It takes a lot more than this, it means playing with your back to goal for nearly the whole match, bringing others into play and generally being a target man. Ronaldo hasn’t yet learnt how to do that yet and he probably never will, that’s not where his strengths lie. He does his best work running from deep and from the wings at the defence, his physique leads people to believe he can lead the line but I just don’t think so.
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I’m afraid you’re right about bad tactics Fred. And I’m affraid for United that Ferg is saying they will go all out and attack. He can’t be serious. This may be gamesmanship. If I were Ferg I’d focus on not giving up the away goal yet trying to get Cristiano into positions to work his magic. This is the game where Vidic and Rio need to shut the door and The Best Player in the World needs to provide a moment of magic.
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Good news! Vidic is fit for Chelsea. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/article3811410.ece
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Best Player; SAF said that in the build up to the game at the Nou Camp, so it is very likely that it is just gamesmanship. Just out of curiosity who do you support?
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Best Player, the balance between defence and attack is a tricky one that SAF has always struggled to get right in the big CL games, its the one flaw on his CV, but I hope he finds the way on tues night coz to bomb forward could leave us open, but to totally sit back like last night would invite too much pressure.
Sometimes I believe that if you cant find that balance and implement it upon the team then you are better sticking to what your good at and in our case, thats attacking.
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gtognard i assume you have yet to watch a recent match of the joke which has become brasi, sure dunga has won us the copa america, but his tactics are too negative and defensive for mine and brasils liking, however it gets the job done, and as long as dunga is manager i will have to swallow my pride and accept what we have become as a team
now on to yesterdays game, im surprised i have any nails left after spending the entire time wondering when were going to change our midfield, we gave away too many needless fouls, which could have cost us worse than that penalty mix, im too tired to talk sbout the match further, but i shudder at the tought of ferige playing like this again for the rest of the season,
anyways im off to watch the yankees i hope they can make it four in a row
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[RedDevil]
No quotes in the article saying he’ll be fit. We’ll wait till we hear something for sure. Plus he’s had gastro-entiritis which isn’t quite easily recoverable considering you’ll need a ton of fluids as a footballer.
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I’m a neutral from Canada – The Land Without Football – until Toronto FC arrived that is. Used to play pro here – such as it was. Supported United for a long while but then drifted when their defense sucked. But now United has Vidic ! And Ferdinand has matured! And Evra is a gem. I have many United friends. I am a fan of the beautiful game and have been mightily impressed by United this year. A fine, fine team. But I regret not watching enough spanish football this season because Barca really controlled that last match. I’m worried for United. It’s very important that the second leg is at home. The home crowd and a big goal from CR7 could be enough to get to Moscow…
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My 0-0 prediction was correct! I think considering it was a poor game from our point of view that result is fantastic. We’ll score at home, the key is gonna be keeping the clean sheet – in other words stopping Messi.
Anyone see when Sky Sports went to the half time break the showed the clip of Ronaldo missing the penalty whilst playing the song ‘im only human’. It made me cringe so much I was almost sick, what were they thinking?!!
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Conor; Two points. First to use the current Brazil tactics against an argument that was based on 60 years of historical play is pretty weak. Secondly, Rooney means an awful lot to our team and gives his very best all the time. His desire to play and to come back quickly from injury never puts his character in question. On the other hand the only other player I have criticized in the way you claim has been none other than the human injury machine Louis Saha. My frustration over his domino style injuries has reached it’s zenith. I don’t think risking the second best attacker on our side by playing him and then playing him in a manner that made him virtually useless was wise. He needed time to rest his injury. Nani or Anderson could have done the job he did and with a lot more force seeing as he was moving at 60%.
Also Conor, you obviously don’t watch Ajax very often because Huntelaar is a very good striker on counter attacks and has great movement. He offers so much more than Saha that’s it’s laughable to even debate the issue. You clearly are judging Huntelaar based on the fact that you think he is a carbon copy of RVN. He’s not. He’s got a lot more to his game than just hovering around in the box.
Mr Muhozi; Yes Brazil are a negative joke right now and Dunga is living on borrowed time. But lets not forget what that team has done for 60 years. That far outweighs this very short and dare I say temporary malaise in the Brazilian camp.
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Haven’t been here for a while maybe two whole days. I won’t even bother reading all the posts but I just wanted to get mine in. I did see that one post talking shit about Scholes. I’m sorry but Scholes was our best player out there. Park did well also Evra was a beast, and the defence showed its brilliance. I do have to say though I didn’t like Hargreaves at RB not that he wasn’t capable but I want to see him run all over not attempting to clear from the corner flag with his back to the center circle.
I was disappointed by the goose egg and I was so scared Barca had so much possession and we were were just absorbing wave after wave. That rope-a-dope reference was spot on. Lets see how we handle Chelse.
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So much staff said couldn’t even read them all. Seems to me that most of you are disapointed just like me with the way we played. I don’t think that the result is bad, but neither it’s good. People say that the OT game will be different and tend to disagree. We already saw that strong teams can outplay us even in our backyard (Arsenal). I undestand SAF’s dicision to play deffencivly, but it was much more then that. It seemed that we were trying to protect an advantage. Ronaldo and the deffence had good game, but the rest were worse then average…our passing, well I don’t even want to talk about it or rather there was no passing…
Chelski game is next and we can’t loose.
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I think SAF played Ronaldo Rooney Tevez and Park as our attacking 4 so that we can play fast counter-attack because these 4 are probably the fastest in our team and he also put Scholes and Carrick as CMs because they are both good at crossing and passing and are decent at defence BUT barca forced their possesion game on us plus I think the missed penalty was the reason we played like crap because it was a blow to our confidince well anyway I think we got the better result and hopefully we will win at OT.
About cheslea, I have a feeling we will win and I dont have an explanation to why I just feel lucky thats all so lets hope we win, break their home record and become champions, that will probably give us a boost of confidince when we play barca at home as champions by then they would have been 100% out of the their title race maybe Im too optimistic.
I saw Bayern X Zinit first half and I have a few observations first of all Lahm is great at RB and I dont know why people say hes short but is he shorter than brown I didnt think he is he might be but not by much Id think, and Schwiensteiger is really good I dont know who here said it would be better to buy an AMF if that happens he would be great, didnt like podolski though he isnt quick enough for our build up or counter attack and he lost possesion too much.
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