Oct 27
Barnsley vs Manchester United: Preview
You’re only as good as your last game and following eleven without defeat, Sunday proved something of a wake-up call. United certainly need to up the ante and fortunately they won’t have to wait very long to attempt to put things right. A little over 50 hours to be precise as a trip to Barnsley in the Carling Cup will hopefully lift spirits, if ever so slightly, following the depressing result at Anfield.
It’s been eleven years since we last visited Oakwell where Andy Cole and Teddy Sheringham were on target in a 2-0 win. You may or may not be aware that the current Barnsley manager, Mark Robins, once scored a winning goal against Nottingham Forest for United back in 1990 that is widely believed to have saved Sir Alex Ferguson’s bacon at Old Trafford. He certainly hasn’t looked back since.
You would expect that Ferguson is bound to make a plethora of changes for the tie although he should stop short of picking an entirely different eleven to Sunday. Ben Foster or Tomasz Kuszczak will replace Edwin van der Sar in goal and the back four should definitely see starts for both Wes Brown and Jonny Evans. Gary Neville or Rafael could feature at right-back while Fabio may replace Patrice Evra on the left-hand-side of defence despite his red card in the third round against Wolves.
Following Gabriel Obertan’s return from injury, it has been confirmed that he will make his first appearance for the first team. Darron Gibson should definitely vacate a central midfield slot and Darren Fletcher could come in alongside him having missed out in recent weeks through injury.
Magnus Eikrem will be desperate to show what he is all about following a string of polished performances for Ole Gunnar Solskjaer’s second string although one would suspect he will only make the bench. With Obertan expected to start on the right, Nani or Zoran Tosic will most likely be selected on the left.
With Wayne Rooney, Michael Owen and Dimitar Berbatov all involved against Liverpool, Federico Macheda and Danny Welbeck could be given the chance to impress up top. After a lively debut in the previous round, expect Josh King to appear later on in the game as an impact sub too.
Speaking prior to the match on Tuesday evening, Ferguson has challenged the Reds to prove their credentials by recovering from the defeat to Liverpool.
“Part of the challenge is to get over disappointments,” he said.
“Last season we lost at home 4-1 to Liverpool which was a travesty but we went on to win the league.”
While Sir Alex may be directing his comments more specifically at those who are to be involved against Blackburn this coming weekend, a result against Barnsley will be the first step in the right direction before the vitally important visit of Sam Allardyce’s side. The critics have already surfaced once again despite 10 wins from our previous 12 although anything but a victory against Barnsley and the knives will be sharpened even further.
So what exactly stands in the way of United and a safe passage to the quarter-finals of a competition that has served us so well in recent times? Well Barnsley are struggling in the Championship where they currently sit in 20th place, four points above the relegation spots. Having put together a decent run at the beginning of October, the south Yorkshire club have lost their last two on the spin.
Despite their relatively poor league standing, the Tykes put on an impressive show to knock Burnley out in the last round of the Carling Cup and watch out for Daniel Bogdanovic, the Maltese striker who has scored four goals in eight for Barnsley so far this season.
Prediction: 3-0 United
RoM is running a liveblog
Related items from Red Rants:
- Obertan to make United debut
- Man Utd v Everton: Preview
- Dynamo Kyiv vs Manchester United: Preview
- Manchester United 2006/2007 Season Review
- The Manchester United Pledge
Tags: Game Preview
October 27th, 2009 at 9:09
Part of the reasons why Arsenal has a good team is the philosophy of football the manager believes in.They bring players and give them time to perfect their roles and even when they are losing,their game is a beauty to watch.
I dont care how many youngsters we field against this crap team because,contrary to what everyone believes,the manager no longer gives kids a chance. He did it once with the class of 92 and that was it.He has kept us watching the dinosaurs that are neville,scholes and giggs,in an era they are unfamiliar with.
I don’t know why people still consider Rooney a good player.He came up as a young fast,and powerful striker with a wicked shot in an era where defenders were not that big but now he cant hustle anyone,has lost pace and no longer shoots.Apart from the usual’he brings something more to the team’phalacy what is he good at anymore?
October 27th, 2009 at 9:18
@donibrasco: And Arsenal have gone 5 years without a trophy. There is pointing out deficiencies, and there is going to the extent of believing the grass on the other side is greener. Arsenal fans would swap positions with us in a second. Let’s not get too ahead of ourselves.
October 27th, 2009 at 9:22
It is nice to see MU put efforts on younger player so that they have some place to show their ability.
October 27th, 2009 at 9:27
@donibrasco: Red Ranter is correct, Why can’t we think that may be academy isn’t producing the kind of people who can come into the first team and make impact, thats why we are looking to buy players, may be its more difficult for youngsters now as the stakes are very high for the manager to allow them to learn from mistakes.
October 27th, 2009 at 9:28
@donibrasco: Our kids have a much better chance of making it at united or in the premier league then arsenal. Want proof?
Phil Bardsley (Sunderland)
Fraizer Campbell (Sunderland)
Kieran Richardson (Sunderland)
David Healy (Sunderland)
Danny Higginbotham (Stoke City)
Danny Pugh (Stoke City)
Ryan Shawcross (Stoke City)
Michael Tonge (Stoke City)
Richard Eckersley (Burnley)
Chris Eagles (Burnley)
Phil Neville (Everton)
Sylvan Ebanks-Blake (Wolves)
David Jones (Wolves)
Paul McShane (Hull City)
Jonathan Spectre (West Ham)
Danny Webber (Portsmouth)
All play in the league.
October 27th, 2009 at 9:28
@Red Ranter: Does anyone knows who is bradcasting the matches in Asia? As i waited for long time (for last round matches) but the usual channels weren’t showing the match.
October 27th, 2009 at 9:33
I mean it was about the last round…
October 27th, 2009 at 9:36
@despicable: Sorry, I’ve no clue. You’re asking the wrong person.
October 27th, 2009 at 9:37
Has anyone seen the last watford match, As i saw both Tom cleverly and cathcart play very well also the guy from Arsenal was awesome i think his name was Henri Lansbury and he scored 2 goals and were assisted by cleverly.
October 27th, 2009 at 9:38
@Red Ranter: Its Ok.
October 27th, 2009 at 9:40
@despicable: Also i can see cathcart doing so well, may be if we keep him at watford for a full season he may become same as Evans and can be very helpful as he always plays there.
October 27th, 2009 at 9:44
@Dan: And i more thing to be seen is that lately, its our kids who develop later in some other clubs, and we usually have to depend on buying players, We have bought many youngsters from around the world, Hopefully this may work out and we can sustain the need of premiership with no more buys…
October 27th, 2009 at 10:26
My ideal team for this evening:
————-Foster———–
-De Laet–Evans–Brown–Fabio-
——-Gibson—Anderson——
-Obertan—————Nani—
———Welbeck-Macheda——
Obviously there’s very little experience there, but I’m somewhat in the sink or swim mentality. A bench of Park, Neville, Valencia, Ferdinand, and one of our senior strikers can balance it out if needed.
October 27th, 2009 at 10:29
goodnight! Zzzz….
October 27th, 2009 at 11:35
Id agree Dan that our kids do end up playing somewhere in the Premier League, but I do not think it is anything to be proud of that we produce players good enough to play for Sunderland or Burnley or Stoke City. The only kids that have broken through to our first team since the Beckham generation are Fletcher and Evans. You can talk about Rooney and Ronaldo but considering we paid double figure transfer fees they do not count. Yes we do seem to have a promising next generation (mostly imported from overseas like Arsenal do) but the jury is still out on these players and until they break into the first team they cannot be considered successes.
Like I said in the other thread I really believe that if the kids are good enough they will break into the first team sooner rather than later. With a few exceptions like Pique and Rossi (for whom the issue was really that they weren’t a perfect fit for the Premier League) all the kids who failed to make the grade at United turned into mediocre players at other clubs. These players didn’t turn into world beaters as soon as they got regular games for another club. If they had the potential to be world beaters they would have broken into the team. The season is long enough and there are enough competitions that virtually all our squad get chances to impress. The onus is on players to take them.
October 27th, 2009 at 11:43
@colver:” The only kids that have broken through to our first team since the Beckham generation are Fletcher and Evans”
Sorry mate i stopped reading there. Brown, o’shea, fletcher, evans, welbeck, are all players that have broken into our team from are own ranks, but that isnt even my point in this case. Our youth and reserves right now are much, much better then the youths and reserves of the last decade. I would go as far to say that these batch of youngsters are more talented then the class of 95.
October 27th, 2009 at 12:34
@Dan: In terms of sheer talent, probably not, none of our youths have the level of talent a young Giggs, Scholes or Beckham had, but in quantity, we probably have more “gifted” players in numbers as opposed to the class of ‘95…
But then again Keith Gillespie looked rather good then…
October 27th, 2009 at 12:37
well tbh arsenal’s current reserve side is on a different level altogether..some of those guys are just a joy to watch and i cant wait to see em in action ag em scousers tomorrow….but brasco , the problem with wenger is that he always gets his team selection wrong in the premeirship and that’s the reason they’re trophyless.a rosicky , fabregas , nasri , song midefield with van persie and arshavin upfront can probably destroy any team.
As for us , i really don’t care about what happend on sunday.When it’s the big 4 , you probably expect the home side to just shade it cuz the refs just succumb to pressure and that’s exactly what happened . neither do i care about today’s game.all i’m looking forward to is seeing our line-up against rovers.Some players really need to be benched.Dunno why most of you diss nani though .he might be a shadow of ronnie but he’s one of those impact players who can create something out of nothing.I think we’ll see a much stronger and more urgent side from now on.But the chav game leaves me a little doubtful in predicitng a long unbeaten run.why? cuz chavs are home and something similar to sunday can be expected
October 27th, 2009 at 13:25
@despicable: If you are from India Sub Continent then I think TEN Sports has the telecast rights. The match is scheduled to kick off midnight 01.15 Indian time and 00.45 Pakistan Standard time… Not sure about your zone though!!!1
October 27th, 2009 at 13:40
@colver: People have been pining about Rossi, but even he is not looking world class. He’s proved to be quite good, but he’s not even considered to be in the top five strikers in Spain, so the view that Rossi would have eventually turned good is a myth imho.
Pique was always slow.
So, I do think that some of our current youths are to be reckoned with., maybe even more than those twoabove as they are more physically adapted to our league.
October 27th, 2009 at 13:41
I know what this team lacks.
Some serious bonding between the players.
October 27th, 2009 at 14:29
My line up…
Kuzczack
De Leat Brown C.Evans Fabio
Obertan James Gibson Tosic
Macheda Welbeck
Ehh… No place for King and Eikrem.
October 27th, 2009 at 15:22
Games like this is the only time scholes should be suiting up, this is about his level now.
As for comparing our setup with arsenal we are obviously better because we actually produce results. Sure arsenal play champagne football, but when the going gets tough arsenal get going and fold like a cheap suit.
I think people expect to much out of the reserves. For a club like United which is one of the top in the world, the chance of a academy player becoming a first team fixture are extremely poor.
October 27th, 2009 at 16:18
http://www.redcafe.net/f7/make-premier-league-best-get-leeds-newcastle-back-273331/
Reads like something Grognard would have written…
The reaction is… interesting!
October 27th, 2009 at 16:27
@NicoQB: Yeah that’s Stan Collymore and he was just slammed today on Pies.
In principle, it’s the safest system for clubs to remain solvent and profitable in the long term. However, it’s logistically impossible to implement because England does not have a franchise model + college system.
October 27th, 2009 at 17:06
@Red Ranter: I didn’t know it was Collymore until reading the comments…
so
When reading it I was wondering since when did Grog write on the cafe?
Anyway, I’m a firm believer in the merits of relegation/promotion. The minnows often are the ones who bring something else in place of the usual big four and mid-table relative predictability.
Phil Brown. Jimmy Bullard. Rory Delap…
October 27th, 2009 at 17:09
Sorry Dan I forgot about O’Shea and Brown. But I wouldn’t say Welbeck is a first team player even though he still has a good chance of making it at United. But the list is still fairly small and I would hope many more of the current crop of youngsters breaks through but only time will tell
Id agree with NicoQB that none of the four players Brown, O’Shea, Fletcher and Evans have anything near the quality that Beckham, Giggs and Scholes showed from an early age.
Id also agree with him that we were right to let Pique and Rossi go although we sold them way too cheaply.
So the fact stands that we have failed to produce any world class players from within our own ranks since Beckham and Scholes.
Maybe the next generation will be different and I have high hopes for the likes of Ljajic, Obertan, Pogba, the twins, De Laet and Macheda. But ultimately at this stage they just have potential and all of them are a few years at least of becoming regular first team players. So definitely for the future rather than providing any competition for our first team squad this year.
As for Welbeck I do not really know what to make of him. He is still very gawky and he is not the prolific striker we need with Berbatov and Rooney misfiring. I think Macheda has a better chance of breaking through even though he is a lot less skillful than Welbeck, simply because Macheda is a natural finisher and that is what this team is crying out for. But Macheda has looked very very very ordinary in the games since those substitute appearances last season and he is a few years away from breaking through.
So I think we either have to put up with mediocrity for a few years and wait to see if any of the youngsters break through. Alternatively and this is the view I support, we should buy a few world class players taking the view that if the youngsters are good enough it doesn’t matter that they will face a lot of competition from the existing first teamers.
Because to be honest you don’t have to be very good to force yourself into a team featuring the likes of Carrick, Valencia, an ageing Giggs and Scholes, and a disappointing Nani and Anderson.
October 27th, 2009 at 17:47
If you want a scary analysis, I was just thinking about how our first XI lines up versus the other ‘big 4′. Below I’ve listed my first 4 choices for each position:
Keeper: Cech (only because VDS is old); VDS; Reina; Almunia
RB: Sagna; Aurelio; Ivanovic; O’Shea (where are the good ones?)
CB1: Rio; JT; Agger; Gallas
CB2: Vida; Carvalho; Vermhaalen; Carragher
LB: Cole; Evra; Clichy; Some pool player
LMF: Arshavin; Malouda; Nani; Rieira
RMF: Cole; Kuyt; Valencia; Diaby
CMF1: Fabregas; Lampard; Macherano; Fletcher
CMF2: Essien; Gerrard; Song; Carrick
CF1: Drogba; Torres; Rooney; RVP
CF2: Anelka; Berbatov; Eduardo; Ngogogogogo
Anyway, by my count, only our CB pairing would be in the best top four XI, and they’ve both been found wanting this season. Is it a case of our best players not performing, or has Fergie just not build a good first XI?
Alternatively, look at Chelsea’s first XI, and shudder:
————-Cech—————-
-Ivan-JT-Carvalho—Cole-
———–Essien—————
—Lampard—-Ballack—–
————J.Cole————–
—-Anelka—Droba———-
That’s some serious quality. And yes it’ll fade and if they can’t sign anyone they’re screwed, but is anyone else surprised at how lacking our current best team is?
October 27th, 2009 at 17:48
@NicoQB: Single table system could be implemented in a sport that’s predominantly played in only one nation. But is doomed to failure otherwise because it involves wage caps etc which would have to be implemented across the globe. Otherwise if the Premiership implemented wage caps, players might move to Spain in search of better pay days — something that’s already bound to happen with the high taxes in England.
Single table system with parity among teams is good if football is played only in England as the dominant de facto league (like gridiron). But it’s not so it will not work.
October 27th, 2009 at 18:10
@Red Ranter: gridi-what?
For me the single most important factor which makes single table system impossible is the existence of league clubs in lower divisions all aspiring to play one day in the premiership. Denying them that would be insulting and effectively hammering the last nail in the idea as to why we call it the people’s game (even if we know that corporate mentality has taken over, blah blah…)
October 27th, 2009 at 18:15
Why would anyone even discuss something brought up by Stan Collymore? It’s an insult to one’s intelligence to even try to apply logic to the man.
October 27th, 2009 at 18:54
@Beachryan: I thought it was funny in the first place.
Back to matters at hand…
Obertan to score a quadruple for his debut.
October 27th, 2009 at 19:16
Still no squad news…apparently Brown, Neville and Scholes will feature, which surprises me. Ginger Ninja on 2 days rest?
October 27th, 2009 at 19:32
He plays on the left, he plays on the RIIIIIIIIIGHT, that boy valencia, makes your team look shite!
October 27th, 2009 at 19:37
@Dan: So when you make a claim like that, show us how many Arsenal castoffs play in the Prem? I rather doubt that none of them made it, while only United has successful castoffs dying on the bench with the bottom feeders. Also, Wenger keeps most of his good ones even if he doesn’t play them. I hate to say this Dan but most of the players you mentioned are total rubbish. My mother is good enough to play for Stoke, Burnley, Hull City and Wolves. And every team in the Prem develops players for the bottom feeders. Not exactly an glowing example of our youth development now is it? How many have made the big club or are playing for top 8 clubs or top clubs in Europe? Pique
and a few others maybe.
We have quite a few promising lads right now as United have spent a lot of money getting some really good teens to come here from other countries but our development of local talent still sucks as it does for most clubs simply because 99/100 British lads under 20 suck due to the old school coaching they have been receiving for generations now. I wouldn’t sign an under 19 English lad over a German, Italian, Brazilian, Spanish, Portuguese, Serbian, Argentine, French lad etc if my life depended on it as a manager. You won’t find any of them even on my Football Manager teams. For all the talk about Walcott, Ramsey and Wilshire, I have yet to see an ounce of evidence that tells me they are worth shite. Sorry mate but I am just offering my opinion, not trying to piss you off, although i probably have anyway.
October 27th, 2009 at 19:47
@Dan: I agree there but it’s because we have gone international in our method. As long as we are allowed to poach players from italy and France and Brazil etc, we will continue to have moderate success at developing potential star players. This is terrible news for English lads trying to make the grade with our club but that’s just the way it goes. It’s like watching that Useless reality show about kids trying to make it on to Chelsea. They are all British and frankly, they suck in comparison to many many kids who come from the continent or from Brazil or Argentina. It’s not because they don’t have the talent or potential, it’s because England is stuck in reverse when it comes to their training and development of young players. Antiquated fundamentals, and skill training and of course old style 4-4-2 is taught and how to cross and offer the long direct ball. Fortunately United and Arsenal are leagues ahead of most of these other teams in developing young players because they bring in foreign youth, have foreign coaches and teach foreign systems and tactics, training methods and fundamentals etc. So United and Arsenal always will have a chance of developing better talent than the rest. Only negative if you want to see it that way, is they will have more success with foreign kids over local ones. I wished it wasn’t so but it’s the way it appears right now.
October 27th, 2009 at 20:19
@NicoQB: The man makes complete and total sense as a true revisionist but the voices that will comment on something like that are always just the ignorant ones that are scared of change and piss on reform. And I’ll bet most of them are from places like Watford, Reading and Hull. Who cares what a bunch toothless drunk bastards think? The day will come when money, business and common sense will force the FA and English football to clean up house and bring in reform.
Society in the western world as we speak is trying very hard these days to destroy the middle class and go back to a period where we are like Ancient Rome when their were the Patricians (the HAVE’S) and the Plebs (the HAVE NOTS). Greed, money and social position in the work place created a wide separation between these two classes. I see this as a moving trend today and it is also going to happen in football. It’s inevitable. Why? Because football is a money sport operated and organized by the greedy few with all the money. And who do they sell their product too, the PLebs. Funny thing about the Plebs by the way. They have very little in comparison to the rich money grubbing owners of these teams, but they like to support winners and top clubs, so they pay to watch Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool. They like quality and it;s also a case of more Plebs living in those municipalities that forces the conditions to be what they are.
The writer of the article makes so much sense with his argument. He is not trying to destroy football or is he trying to be elitist. He just realizes that football in it’s present configuration will eventually fail as the cracks have started to grow. Already there is an exodus of great foreign talent that is leaving England for other countries. The tax system is an excuse only. Sure it hurts but Christ, these are millionaires for crying out loud. The taxman is not going to force them into starving or homelessness. No the reason they are leaving is the poor state of the British game and the quality of competition in the Premiere League which is rapidly disintegrating due to the tactics and dirtiness of the lower end teams who do whatever they can to contend and survive. They set up shop, park the bus, bore elite players and teams to death with their cowardly and direct tactics and foul great players into long stays in the hospital in order to survive. Ronaldo himself has said that the quality of Spanish football is a delight compared to England because he is not being mercilessly hacked down every time he gets the ball. That is why great players want to leave.
So how do you get rid of this problem? First thing is you try to make the Premiere League just big enough to sustain quality teams with strong support, and large enough stadiums to be financially solid. Create very strict regulations for becoming an owner of a club. No debtors like the Glazer’s, no penny pinching paupers like Mike Ashley need apply. Only solid financially backed ownership groups with the capital and the commitment to take on the job. Cities like Newcastle and and Leeds deserve to have a team in the Prem. They are large cities with a very large support base but have been bogged down and almost destroyed by terrible ownership and lack of proper and realistic ambition. Put in the right hands these teams could prosper financially and in turn their football would improve greatly.
I’m sorry but the writer of the article is very correct in his belief that teams like Hull and Reading do not belong in the Prem. Regardless of the city’s size, their stadiums and footballing background is not big enough to sustain a prem league team for a long and hopefully successful run. 99% of all teams that are promoted are here for a short time, not a long time. And that at it’s core is the big problem with the structure of football. Stability can never be achieved when the threat of relegation is constantly nagging a team that might be bad but that needs time to rebuild. The trap door must be bolted shut once and for all. Force teams to produce attacking and winning football in order to survive or offer my one and only compromise. Allow relegation of two teams every five seasons based on a cumulative record of ineptitude. If a team goes five season without any improvement, then the message is clear, their owners are pocketing the money and not putting it into the team. Then punish them by relegating them. But at least five years of security would allow most bottom table teams time to build into contenders. It never required Brian Clough that long but then again, he was kind of special now wasn’t he?
Yes I agree with the article and I couldn’t give a rat’s ass about the negative feedback. Change and reform takes brave committed men who turn their back to criticism. Look at Obama. A man committed to change and reform and you do not hear the liberal left supporters in the majority nearly as much as you hear the pompous, greedy corrupt and evil ass holes from the right put down his every move. So kudos the gentleman for writing a well thought out and brilliant post promoting reform in order to save the game we love most from becoming a second Coca Cola League 1 version 1.1.
October 27th, 2009 at 20:20
@Red Ranter: I cannot believe that I am in agreement with an ex player I used to despise, but yes I am in awful agreement with Stan the Man. YUK, makes me feel all dirty and Scouser inside.
October 27th, 2009 at 20:22
Man Utd
* 12 Foster
* 02 Neville
* 06 Brown
* 20 Fabio Da Silva
* 21 Rafael Da Silva
* 23 Evans
* 08 Anderson
* 07 Owen
* 19 Welbeck
* 26 Obertan
* 27 Macheda
Substitutes
* 40 Amos,
* 22 O’Shea,
* 30 De Laet,
* 14 Tosic,
* 31 Corry Evans,
* 41 King,
* 43 James
October 27th, 2009 at 20:24
foster
rafiel brown evens nevil
fabio anderson oberton
owen macheda welly
October 27th, 2009 at 20:25
Fucking neville again!ahead of de laet. Why does fergie hinder the growth of players?? Its enough of neville
October 27th, 2009 at 20:25
Not long left until kick off now lads. Can’t wait to see Obertan play. Very impressed with him in the reserve games that I have seen. Great pace,trickery and also confident using both feet. Also De laet who should be playing in the first team ahead of o’shea in my opinion. Hopefully Fabio can last a full game without getting injured as he is quality going forward!
October 27th, 2009 at 20:26
foster
nevil brown evans fabio
____rafiel__anderson
oberton____________Welly
_____owen
___________macheda
maby?
October 27th, 2009 at 20:26
@gator: MUTV saying its set up like this
Foster
Nev Brown Evans Fabio
Obertan Anderson Rafael Welbeck
Macheda Owen
October 27th, 2009 at 20:30
@Traverse: looks good maby rafael will be a revelation in mid field
October 27th, 2009 at 20:30
If foster is at goal….expect 1 or 2 silly mistakes…..
but I predict whatever the team thats chosen today will put on a good show…..BIG win today……United 4:0 or 4:1
October 27th, 2009 at 20:33
@Red Ranter: Sorry RR but that is rubbish. Look at the North American sports models that have success even if there is wage caps. The NFL succeeds in every city (even in these tough economic times) because the stadiums are all big, the tv package is evenly distributed and because each team has a large base to draw from. Sure they have no competition in other countries but when you create something that looks good, smells good and tastes good, the others will want to come. Taxes be damned, foreigners came in droves when the Prem League was formed. They will come again because from a marketing point of view and from a glamourous point of view the English game sells big time around the world. It’s Man Utd who is the single strongest and best selling brand in the world, not Madrid, not Barca, not Milan, not Juventus or Bayern etc.
The world loves England and a large part of that marketing base that promotes the prem and throws money at it is English speaking so as long as the league is financially healthy and all the teams are healthy, the salary caps will be so high as not to worry about too many foreign teams. If anything, the new system would be so successful in it’s implementation and organization as to force other league throughout the globe to copy it. It takes vision and a plan and not fear and conservatism to ever make the world a better place. The same goes for football. As long as you have solid ownership, the right number of team and large enough stadiums in large enough cities, the beautiful game will never fail in the country it was born.
October 27th, 2009 at 20:35
Neville over de laet = Bullshit!
October 27th, 2009 at 20:40
@Traverse: Macheda – Owen partnership?
That looks so wrong!
No creativity whatsoever up front.
I hope to god I’m wrong.
And Rafael in midfield? P.Neville was limited in midfield and let’s not even talk about O’shea.
Fergie, wtf?
October 27th, 2009 at 20:40
@NicoQB: Ah boo hoo hoo. Some people need to know their place in society. Same goes to some cities, towns villages and football teams. Delusions of grandeur is not an impressive trait to me. Small communities with small teams and small money need to know their place and know that they have their own league and that’s where they will be. Enough said. There are hundreds of medium sized cities in North America that have second tier leagues in hockey, baseball etc. The people come out to see them and they know that they will never be promoted. But the people still come out to see them play because the teams are structured as to be farm systems for the bigger cities therefore you get to see the young players developing and for the fans, well they come out to watch because that’s the only game in town. A city of 250,000 has no business trying to compete with a city of over a million. Its not financially or even socially acceptable. It’s folly and it is a joke. The larger city has more money to draw from and thus the team will always be more successful under proper management. It’s about practicality. This is big business we are talking about, not a romance novel where the peasant gets the rich girl and goes off into the sunset. Lets grab some realistic perspective here. The present structure may not fail immediately but it is heading that way as long a s bigger money comes in to buy the bigger clubs.
October 27th, 2009 at 20:47
It’s official, I’m not as hard core a fan as many of you. The fact that so many of you give a fuck about a useless Carling Cup game truly amazes me. I can’t be bothered to watch Fergie meddle with the young kids. Watch him zap the life force and energy out of them like the Grim Reaper and have them play tactics that will turn them off from playing the game and cause them to ask the question “I stopped chasing skirts for this?”.
October 27th, 2009 at 20:52
1-0 well done danny my son!
October 27th, 2009 at 20:57
If Anderson can consistently take consistently take corners like that he should take them now permantly..that was van persie like…thats why arsenal score so many from set pieces…
October 27th, 2009 at 21:11
@Grognard: The English speaking world (and Asia) loves England. Single table system will work if there is no competition from other countries. I’m sorry, but if you think single window will work for a game that is truly global, I’m sorry, but it’s rubbish.
My reasons are not because it I think about lower clubs deserving a shot at the title. But because it’s logistically impractical when there is so much competition from outside leagues. The north American system works because there’s just zero competition. Also the US market is big enough to make NFL, NBA, MLB work as compared to the Japanese/Dominican Republic/Cuban markets. You cannot compare north American sports with football because you are not comparing like for like.
October 27th, 2009 at 21:19
obertan has some jets
October 27th, 2009 at 21:24
any live streams?
October 27th, 2009 at 21:27
Obertan looks very classy. Very composed on the ball, great pace, some trickery and his final ball isn’t bad either. You can tell he is something special by the way Barnsley are giving him the Ronaldo treatment of fouling him every time he gets the ball. Now if only Obertan could take free kicks!
October 27th, 2009 at 21:33
Gary Neville is head and shoulders above every player on the pitch
as the worst.
October 27th, 2009 at 21:37
@colver: He’s quality, that lad.
October 27th, 2009 at 21:42
Obertan> Nani
October 27th, 2009 at 21:49
@Red Ranter: Marketing will always make England a go to destination for foreign players and if you cannot see that, then sorry mate. I addressed your concerns and brought up valid arguments against them, yet you just repeated yourself. I gave reasons why it would work and why lower teams belong in lower divisions. It’s all about money and the growth of teams with money as opposed to the lack of growth of teams without. Foreign players are mercenary in nature and will come to a league that has prestige, theat is elitist and that is marketed all over the world. English is the international language and has more clout and pull all over the world than Spanish or Italian. Sure we may always lose out more often than not on Argentines and Brazilians but there are many more countries who produce great players who would love to comes to England if they knew the quality of football was high and positively entertaining as opposed to oppressively dull and destructive as it is fast becoming. There is no competition if you weed out the competition by creating a product that is so great it can’t help but create allure. Right now there is no allure or motivation to come play in England for even any of the major clubs. Arsenal is brat factory, Liverpool has no money and is a city where one with good taste and scruples would rather avoid at all costs, Chelsea is an old, bland and very negative environment and a team that promotes old footballers, not great ones, and United play negative, dull football and have owners who are cheap and who do not invest in player development at the rate they should. And you wonder why a lot of the targets like Benzema and others don’t want to play in England? The mentality has to change and that starts at the bottom by getting rid of the hacks and peasants. Clean the game up and make it more competitive and more attack oriented. Get rid of the peasants who dress up in the uniforms of referees and start training qualified men not old accountants to call the games properly. Get rid of the negativity and the fear factor of relegation that cripples so many teams and destroys the aesthetic and quality of the games. What is it about common sense change and reform that you don’t get? Honestly it’s the same lack of vision and fear of change that has half the Us follow the Republicans down the evil path of their own destruction. I hate the status quo if it isn’t working and in football’s case, if it isn’t entertaining and attractive. I am a consumer and the Premier League product being offered this year is an absolute joke. If you cannot see this and you cannot see the need for reform and drastic reform, then I can’t help you. Just sit back and enjoy mate.
October 27th, 2009 at 21:49
@Taehr: say whaaaa???
Obertan has been good so far. What I like is the urgency he brings plus the chaos he causes for opposing defenders; what a winger is supoosed to do. Nani stops the ball mid-run/dribble way too much, which is funny because you would think he is stopping to look for a pass but he’s stopping to think about a useless dribble that usually never comes off. 
At the end of the day, it’s competition and i hope that can motivate both of them to perform better. 
October 27th, 2009 at 21:49
First 45:
Fergie must be having a huge man-crush (or is it boy crush) on the Da Silva twins. How else can we explain the fielding of a RB in CM? Especially when there are perfectly capable youths whose natural positions are CM.
What about Darron Gibson? Matt James (youth player of the year last season)? Eikrem has been earning rave reviews recently.
Frankly Barnsley bossed the midfield after the first 10 min of United domination. Anderson was disappointing in his distribution and Rafael clearly lacks positioning fundamentals for a midfield, but he tries to make up with his enthusiasm.
But basically everytime we moved the ball upfield, we did so by passing through the wings.
I missed Welbeck goal as I was trying to silence my barking dog (bitch really)
But he was playing like a demon early on.
Obertan looked fazed by the occasion early on, but gradually got in the game.
And as I predicted, Macheda-Owen brings no creativity. Welbeck being a bit more creative, he would have been ideal up front.
Frankly disappointed with Fergie’s tactical meddling.
I’ve got an idea: Why not play players in their natural positions?
October 27th, 2009 at 21:52
I knew it! I knew it! I knew I had seen Mark Robbins somewhere before. He played for FC Copenhagen when I lived in Copenhagen and I remember going to their games and watching this “short foreigner” play and he scored a a lot of goals in a few matches… oh good old times!
October 27th, 2009 at 21:52
@Grognard: I am all for reform. You are not advocating reform. You are asking for upheaval. There is a big difference. I can give very valid reasons why a single table system is not a practical solution, and I’ll do that later in the evening.
October 27th, 2009 at 21:55
Who are those who feel the kids should get opportunities to play more on the first team? I’d ask them all to kindly shut the fuck up. Our youth is average at best and clearly not ready for prime time. Welbeck is a joke with the intelligence of a mule’s behind. Anderson can’t even elevate his game against Barnsley, Macheda has found a new calling, that of illusionist as he can disappear better than Houdini. Only Obertan predictably deserves to be given a chance on the first team. And Foster, my god, I have a new nickname for him. I call him the “King of Comedy”. He no longer makes me mad. He only makes me laugh. Poor Michael Owen still can’t get any service because even at this level we have no midfield. Are we playing 5-2-3. Where is our midfield. Our defenders are the only ones who have the ball and they keep pumping out direct balls because they have no midfielder who has a clue or the energy to get open. And enough already with the fucking back passes. United have turned this boring aspect of the game into a fucking art form. WHAT JOKE!
October 27th, 2009 at 22:02
anderson to tosic with a close chance nice curling effort missed the top corner by inches
October 27th, 2009 at 22:02
Mo7!
October 27th, 2009 at 22:03
OWENNNNNN
October 27th, 2009 at 22:03
@Grognard: geez Grog, if watching United is such torture for you, why persist?? If United only make you bored, mad or depressed, why even bother? I know this is a rant site, but you must be a massochist to continue watching when you are obviously not enjoying. Why not take off the crtical lenses and enjoy a game of football mate… as I write, Owen scores!!
that should cheer you up Grog 
October 27th, 2009 at 22:06
our away support!!!
singing “Michael Owen is a red… He hates scousers”
October 27th, 2009 at 22:06
this should have been the squad that faced liverpool last weekend
October 27th, 2009 at 22:07
nevil sees red
October 27th, 2009 at 22:10
delat on for owen
nevils red for a follow threw after he won the ball?
October 27th, 2009 at 22:12
Even the refs want to get rid of nev
October 27th, 2009 at 22:15
we are playing shit defense but they suck
October 27th, 2009 at 22:18
@Grognard: haha He was running away from his goal…that made me laugh, yea I dont pay much attention to his errors no more…
October 27th, 2009 at 22:18
rafael being hacked down every time he takes the ball and ando is not playing great but a little better than carrik v pool
October 27th, 2009 at 22:23
foster keeping us in the game
October 27th, 2009 at 22:23
super save from Foster!!!
This guy is turning into a regular Gomez with his alternating flashes of brilliance and comedy 
October 27th, 2009 at 22:23
World class from foster there.
October 27th, 2009 at 22:27
October 27th, 2009 at 22:28
one of the twins get a yellow after a dive from bardsly
October 27th, 2009 at 22:31
@Gabriel: I ask myself the same thing every day mate. But like you, I’m an addict. But I just hate buying low grade cocaine, which is what we are all being served if you want a harsh analogy.
October 27th, 2009 at 22:33
@Dan: That was truly a great save and impressive how he held onto the ball. So that is one skill out of 10 that he has. How about his distribution tonight Dan, no comments on how world class that is?
October 27th, 2009 at 22:34
we still are not receiving fair play from the ref yet. how long will fergis ban last
October 27th, 2009 at 22:37
Neville and Scholes are showing us just how poor our leadership has become. Neville getting a red while captaining the youngsters and trying to show leadership and direction is just unforgivable. It was a tad harsh but he got the ball and then left the studs up and that unfortunately is not just a no no, but incredibly cynical and stupid as well. And the kids are then supposed to be expected to learn from him?
Very disappointed and unimpressed today mate. Not a good sign for the future although there were some good young lads that never had a chance today like king, Pogba, Gibson and Ekram. Welbeck is a total waste and in hindsight, we should have kept Campbell over him. That boy has no desire and nothing between the ears despite having some skill.
October 27th, 2009 at 22:37
Few observations from the game:
1. our much-vaunted youth team isnt all that great. Kiko, Danny, and even Obertan all look like they are learning to walk. Rafael and Fabio are too impetuous to yet be first team regulars. Even Ritchie De Laet is making schoolboy errors.
2. Ben Foster is seriously shit. His kicking is the worst I have seen from any keeper, his decision making is piss poor. The only saving grace is his agility and the ability to make reflex saves.
October 27th, 2009 at 22:38
@Grognard:
fair enough… it’s just that United has always been some kind of stress-relief medicine for me and as soon as I start being overly critical and angry at watching them, it defeats the purpose.
October 27th, 2009 at 22:39
@gator: Studs stayed up mate and he had plenty of time after getting the ball to bring them down. It was dirty and cynical.
October 27th, 2009 at 22:42
@Gabriel: United stress relief medicine Gabriel – yeah they certainly have a SEDATIVE effect
.
October 27th, 2009 at 22:42
@Gabriel: Then maybe they should start playing a lot better and take away that stress as opposed to making it worse. You hit the nail on the head there with that statement mate. Football is an entertainment and if we aren’t being entertained and our stress is not being alleviated but only increased, then somebody is not doing his job properly. Fergie, his tactics, his poor selection of players and the team’s suspect financial status is all leading us to higher stress and less joy. And i should blame myself for this? I don’t think so.
October 27th, 2009 at 22:42
October 27th, 2009 at 22:45
@CraigMc: True, if one is really tired but is having a hard time falling asleep, I don’t suggest sleeping pills. I suggest they record United games and play them back when they need to find some snooze time. It works like a charm. What’s really bad though is when you just wake up from 7 hours of sleep to watch United play on a Saturday and within twenty minutes of the game having started, you find yourself fast asleep again.
October 27th, 2009 at 22:45
Neville dismissal aside they was not a lot of great quality on display..it isn’t any surprise they occupy the bottom half of the championship..Owen’s quality is still there..Obertan didn’t really get a lot of the ball and Anderson played well if not spectacularly..i liked Tosic’s display..one attribute he showcased today and in the reserves was his close ball control and he did it with finess..i think he’s adjusting to the physicality of the english game and with time he should do well, to be fair we played with a one man midfeild and five across the back so we were playing a bit too defensive
October 27th, 2009 at 22:45
If that’s all we got – the Lord help us, cos we are DONE!. Barnsley missed sitter after sitter tonight!
October 27th, 2009 at 22:45
@Vivek: 1) Bloody hell. Do you expect immidiate world class stars? Does the word POTENTIAL mean anything to you? Thats one of the sillies comments ive seen in a while
2) Fostes kicking was fine. You are making something out of nothing for the sake of it. Dont, mess, with, FOSTER
October 27th, 2009 at 22:47
@Dan:
“You’re right grognard. Foster out.” My God, did I read this correctly Dan? I am enlarging this to 75 times bigger, copying and printing this out and then I am going to have it framed above my desk. It is a day of celebration indeed. 
October 27th, 2009 at 22:48
well if some of you want to feel a little bit better, watch the madrid game now, they down 3-0
October 27th, 2009 at 22:48
@Grognard:
– zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
October 27th, 2009 at 22:49
@Grognard: If you read the comment, you would know i was making a joke about the invaders running onto the pitch and scoring
You’re never right on foster grognard.
October 27th, 2009 at 22:49
@Dan: Ah now you have me all confused. You just said out with Foster and now it’s don’t mess with Foster? AHHHHHHH my
head hurts.
October 27th, 2009 at 22:49
@ROOOOONEY: Was Ronnie playing though???
October 27th, 2009 at 22:50
@Dan: Then learn how to write better because that is what I got from your comment.
And I’m never right on Foster? Go get your head examined mate. You and the two other blokes in all of England that agree with you.
October 27th, 2009 at 22:52
uhh no, they would be winning if he was.
October 27th, 2009 at 22:52
@Dan: I’m beginning to think Grog is more and more right about Foster – he does do some mighty dithering Dan! He has to take loads of time in the area to take his kick – and when he is presssured he cannot but kick a few yards
.
October 27th, 2009 at 22:53
Why was Rafael in midfield? I don’t understand Fergie at times. Foster did well tonight, I think one of the main reasons for him being so erratic in the league games was that he never expected to start so many matches this season. Now he’s comfortable being number 2 again.
Macheda did well as a lone striker I thought. I would have liked to have seen Matty James come on for Rafael and show us what he can do but bah, Fergie insists on weird tactics.
October 27th, 2009 at 22:53
@ROOOOONEY:
– thought as much! Are they a one man team then?
October 27th, 2009 at 22:55
@Dan: WHAT!!!??
October 27th, 2009 at 22:55
@Grognard: Did you even watch the game? If you did you would have understood the comment. If you didnt, then…
October 27th, 2009 at 22:55
@Sir Red: Rafael in MF and was really poor I thought, but you should know Sir Red SAF’s great penchant for bollocks-ing up with square pegs, round holes syndrome!
October 27th, 2009 at 22:56
duh is my answer
October 27th, 2009 at 22:56
@Taehr:
Im actually lost for words. Did any of you watch the game?
October 27th, 2009 at 22:57
@CraigMc: Quite the opposite in my opinion. Better then scholes.
October 27th, 2009 at 22:59
Obertan with a bit more fitness will be a super player…he loses the ball rarely and has good movement…Rafael in midfield was a joke just shows how crap barnsley are. Macheda and Welbeck are VERY overrated although I do think Macheda in the first team is much better due to the chances he gets. Owen needs to start a few games in a row now. Great goal. Our only striker capable of that. De laet was shocking today but I like him.Gary Nev out for 3 games isnt that bad though
October 27th, 2009 at 23:03
@Dan: Ahhh I get it…You shocked me there. He had a good actually brilliant save but the rest was a joke…was he running of the pitch at one point??and his kicks were wow…
October 27th, 2009 at 23:05
@Sir Red: Fergie has become one of the most infuriating managers when it comes to selection. A right back in midfield???that was crazy!…And im sure scholes and the rest of his favourites will be in the team this weekend
October 27th, 2009 at 23:09
@Taehr: Sometimes, i just dont get the comments on this site. Some of them, if they were made on respected forums, they’d just be laughed at. This is in general taehr, im not targeting you.
But seriously, welbeck was a stand out player in the first half, and was taken of early in the second. Macheda wasnt bad either. Tell me why they are over-rated? And what did delaet do wrong? Other then when he lost the ball within the first few minuted of his appearance, he didnt have a lot to do.
October 27th, 2009 at 23:10
@Taehr: His kicks were absolutely fine. Nothing would be made of the kicking today had it been van der sar or adler.
This is out right bullying
October 27th, 2009 at 23:11
@CraigMc: @Grognard:
Fergie does tend to annoy sometimes, that’s true. Never more than his awful selection and tactics; it’s like he has this inflappable belief that as far as there are 11 players on the pitch, irregardless of their positioning, they will perform, after all, they play for United. 
Good example is today, what was all that about?? Rafael in CMF? Where was Gibbo?.. his persistence with playing Welbeck on the wings? The dude is no Henry (altho, I hope he turns out to be
).. there’s so many more, even his stubborness to alter his tactics when they’re not going right, but we keep winning, at least most of the time, so i’m not complaining.
What I would like is if we can bring in a technical coach that can teach these kids how to control and move the ball around like the scholes of yester-year or the current Barca/Arsenal teams. At least even if it takes a couple of years, we know we won’t be totally screwed when these kids step up to the first team.
October 27th, 2009 at 23:12
@RMJ: You need corrective lenses mate.
Obertan was one of our better players, Anderson with a more than a year and a half of premiership experience could not boss the midfield, and Tosic was rather uninvolved except for two or three actions.
October 27th, 2009 at 23:14
@Gabriel: Gibsons injured.
And if giggs put in the performance rafael did, nothing would be made of it. Rafael had a great game.
October 27th, 2009 at 23:16
@Dan:Welbeck was very good in the first half, especially early on.
Macheda on the other hand was poor in the first half, but played well in the second, especially in the last 20 min.
De Laet, as much as I loved him in his previous appearances, was poor. The three times he tried to foray forward with the ball, he was dispossessed and one of his back passes was dangerous and caused foster to make a dodgy clearance.
October 27th, 2009 at 23:18
Tosic appeared to be the only player capable of keeping the ball and completing a pass…
October 27th, 2009 at 23:26
@Dan: I never said or insinuated he had a bad game there, it’s just not his natural position. I just mentioned it to stress my point on Fergie’s erratic team selection and tactics. However, he did perform well as did the rest of the kids and it was a shame that the ref harshly sent off Red Nev, else we might have probabaly gotten another goal or two; the momentum was building.
October 27th, 2009 at 23:26
@Dan: About Rafael, no I don’t think he was especially good. Just average imho. He was mediocre in terms of distribution and availability to provide a passing solution. These are midfield fundamentals that no makeshift defender-come-midfielder can learn in a day or two.
He did hustle and bustle and harried the Barnsley midfield and attack, but a central midfielder should also be able to put a foot on the ball, slow down the pace of the game of accelerate it, spread the ball around.
THe central midfield failed to do this as every time we moved the ball forward, we did it through the wings. But what’s even more damning in this, is that while its forgivable for RAfael to make such a performance, Anderson has no excuse on his part.
The scoreline is really flattering for us. We scored on a set piece early on, and on a moment of individual brilliance. Barnsley had way more dangerous opportunities but were wasteful in their finishing.
October 27th, 2009 at 23:28
@Dan: HE got skinned to easily, its the first time hes looked a bit shaky coz before he was very solid. Macheda looks to slow and he didnt do anything the whole game in my opinion. But like I said with better players around him I think he could do better
October 27th, 2009 at 23:30
When I mean overated and Im talking about welbeck here, he just seems to have no strength and just generally and ordinary player. He probably is better upfront and hes only 18 soo
October 27th, 2009 at 23:32
@Elliott: Tosic finally looked like he has some strength
October 27th, 2009 at 23:38
@Dan: His kicks were almost grass level. Ok maybe we played way too many backpasses but damn. But great save though
But the real star today was Gabriel Obertan!! Yes hes better than Ronaldo after 1 game against Barnsley!but seriously he did everthing right. This was his 3rd or 4 th game after 3 months and his first real match. HE was quick and he showed what nani dont, the ability to keep the ball. I truly hope hes on the bench on sat. Knowing fergie though we will next see him in the quarter final
His touch is silky and you can see he went to Clairefontaine because he looks to much like henry.
Please Fergie enough of Park and the rest. This is a ronaldo like winger!
October 27th, 2009 at 23:40
@NicoQB: dude, that style of play has unfortunately become ingrained in the skulls of United players, whenever they play for the first team. Our central midfielders play way too deep. Carrick, Scholes, Anderson.. the lot. Even Giggs who was the exception has began playing too deep as well. What Fergie fails to realise is we don’t have that player anymore, u’kno, Ronaldo, who could occupy the opposition defence so much that they didn’t even have the numbers to attack us.
We need more drive from midfield, the kind of drive that we had against liverpool when we went 1-0 down; all of a sudden, Giggs and Carrick realised where the liverpool 18-yard box was. Why do we always invite pressure?? Why not try it the other way ’round? Press them into submission. Fergie has taken the continental model a bit too far in my opinion and it has hurt our game; but hey, we keep winning
, so he almost has no reason to alter it. 
October 27th, 2009 at 23:55
@Gabriel: To press the opposition into submission we need:
Actual central midfielders by trade with the legs and lungs to do it. that leaves us with
Fletch – yep
Carrick – so-so
Scholes – no way
Giggs – not really
Hargreaves – yes, but ask the physio first
Anderson – should be able to, but has no football brain
So that’s why was disappointed as to Fergie’s decisoin to play Fabio there, when maybe there are the James, the Corry Evans, the Gibsons…
October 28th, 2009 at 0:01
@Gabriel: And at the end of the day its the manager’s responsibilty to ask players to press the opposition or make sure we can play this way.
When the problem is tactical, the fault for me should lay on the manager’s shoulder, not the players.
October 28th, 2009 at 0:08
Anderson, 2 assists today…
BTW, Obertan looks mint!
Didnt expect that, at all!
October 28th, 2009 at 0:13
@Footy4Eddy: One good set piece delivery, but the other is just an innocuous pass which ended up being an assist after some bit of exquisite skill from Owen.
October 28th, 2009 at 0:16
One thing nobody mentioned.
Brown was excellent.
Looked like a fit and confident Rio, the way he kept possesion and was unhurried when on the ball.
His chant is one of our best and he deserves to be a starter in front of Rio based on recent form.
MotM
October 28th, 2009 at 0:38
@CraigMc: There was that one time in the first half that I woke the hole building up when I screamed “Just kick the fucking ball already”. It’s not all that delaying and BS he does makes the ball get to a United player at the end. The guy is hopelessly stupid and uncoordinated.
October 28th, 2009 at 0:40
@Sir Red: Not only did he feel he needed to give Neville playing time, but by sitting most of the starters, it is important to have a leader out there to direct things and to calm the troops down. Nothing like experience. So then he goes out and plays like a muppet and then gets red carded in a manner that was totally childish and highly unprofessional. Studs up after he got the ball is no excuse for any professional footballer.
October 28th, 2009 at 0:41
@Dan: I did watch the game and I still don’t understand WTF you said. So there.
October 28th, 2009 at 0:42
@Dan: You are never lost for words mate, your words just don’t always make much sense is all.
I am kidding by the way so don’t blow a gasket OK. 
October 28th, 2009 at 0:44
@Dan: Dan, you are better than Scholes.
October 28th, 2009 at 0:45
@Grognard: I think he was referring to those clowny Barnsley fans running on the pitch and scoring, and joked that Foster should have still saved it. And since he didn’t save, he sarcastically commented that you were right and Foster should be out. It was a joke.
Did I get that right Dan?
October 28th, 2009 at 0:56
@Dan: Welbeck was dallying on the ball too much, selfish with the ball and stupid in his decision making. The kind of marking he received when he scored would have allowed even Anderson to score. A muppet would have scored on that freebee. You are clearly incapable of looking at things with any objectivity when it comes to the young player in the organization. They are all Gods and we must all concede too that even when the proof is that much the opposite. Stop confronting everyone who doesn’t share your minority opinions because frankly mate, you are wrong more often than you are right. You know a lot about these young players but you have no objectivity when they do not perform on the big stage. Instead you mother them and protect the like a ridiculous she wolf. Your a opinion has been noted…..many times, now let others offer there’s in peace without you coming down on them like Mother Hen.
We get it, you love the young players. Just don’t expect all of us to go all gushy over the mediocre performances and then listen to you build their mediocre performances to something greater than they were. Macheda and Welbeck were totally useless tonight but it didn’t help that they had no midfield whatsoever to provide them with any service. Still, that did stop Owen from having a fine game because his class and experience showed. Now if you have a problem with that, fine, just keep from spewing insults and calling us stupid for thinking such blasphemy. It’s not even about you correcting us and calling us idiots for not agreeing with you. It’s that you are so obviously wrong on some any levels. Your faith and believe in Fosters speaks volumes of where you stand how reliable and unbiased your opinions are. Now take a big breath and thinkup something really mean nasty and wity to say about my love for Germans.
October 28th, 2009 at 0:58
@Gabriel: That was Fergie’s response to Rinus Michels and Dutch “Total Football” Look up the definition and you’ll know what i mean. Fergie must thinkhe has a team full of Cruyff’s, Neeskens’ and Krol’s.
October 28th, 2009 at 1:05
@Gabriel: I just finished a fascinating book titled “Inverting the Pyramid” which is a master class on the history of tactics in football. When you read this book, you will realize just how pedestrian Fergie is tactically and how much of a tinkerer he is as opposed to a genius. His tactics are nothing more than a mish mash of other styles and concepts mixed together with British old school tactics because those are the only ones he truly understands. His success over the years can be attributed solely to his man management and motivational attributes. In that he is second to none. Had he had a clue about tactics like Mourinho or Capello or Hitzfeld, he would never have lost a game as manager (A slight exaggeration of course). Check the book out if you get the chance.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Inverting-Pyramid-History-Football-Tactics/dp/0752889958
October 28th, 2009 at 1:07
@NicoQB: Obertan was quite good but lacks the stamina right now. He also needs to work on his distribution at full speed which was poor. But I saw some talent there and I think he could be good with more time and experience and better fitness..
October 28th, 2009 at 1:09
@Dan: Rafael was just OK mate. He was far from poor but he was also far from great. Just a bit of an overreaction from you I’d say. Take a poll and ask the members how many thought he was great today? Then ask them all if they are stupid and or blind?
October 28th, 2009 at 1:13
@NicoQB: Brown is always excellent. I take it for granted and unfortunately, Ferguson still prefers the incredibly inferior O’Shea to Wes, which I for one will never understand. I still think it goes back to his demand for more money at the end of 2007/08. Since then he has been in the dog house regardless of his supposed injuries. Wes is a fantastic defender.
October 28th, 2009 at 1:14
@Red Ranter: I didn’t get it mate because it was very vague. I watched the game but got up for 5 minutes to go into the kitchen and must have missed that because I don’t remember it.
October 28th, 2009 at 2:19
@NicoQB: Absolutely disagree, Brown was tentative and indecisive for most of his challenges, and made some poor and rash decisions when under pressure.
He will never win his job back with performances like this!!
October 28th, 2009 at 2:23
@Elliott: Him and Obertan and Macheda were making arguments for first team selection!!
October 28th, 2009 at 2:33
as predicted we won, there wasnt going to be any other result, but who cares about the league cup anyway? we dont thats for sure!! will we ever see another game where rafeal plays in cm??? and yet again owen scores when he is given enough match time, but in contrast owen playing tonight probally means the poor sod doest start at the weekend AGAIN, because fergie is so fucking stubborn that he thinks mircles will happen over night and our miss fit of berba and rooney will gel…… BUT heres the thing our best striker is michael owen, yet because of his age and the fact he didnt cost 30mil he isnt regarded as a first teamer in fergies eyes!!!! and thats a shame cuz its just a waste of talent!
im not so keen on putting roney in midfield but without a proper playmaker would anyone consider it a could idea? at least he would push up the pitch andd support our strike force….
vds
oshea BROWN vidic evra
valencia fletcher anderson
berba
rooney owen
ANYONE THINK THATS A GOOD TEAM, SWITHCH ROONEY AND BERBA AROUND AND LEAVE OWEN RIGHT UP TOP
October 28th, 2009 at 2:36
@Grognard: Obertan is much larger that I thought, and seems to have a physical advantage over his defender. I would gamble that this guy has potential. Hope he can win a place in the team.
October 28th, 2009 at 3:34
@Redrich: Obertan is much larger that I thought
October 28th, 2009 at 3:35
It amazed me how similar this team played in the MF to our first team!! Overall very chaotic, but definitely playing with a defensive mind rather than pushing forward. In a way that helped us tonight, but philosophically, this is a poor choice if we are to score goals!!
October 28th, 2009 at 3:36
@Red Ranter: I’m observant, but not that observant!!
October 28th, 2009 at 4:06
@jamie lee: I guess once in a while I have my issues with SAF, but his contributions certainly don’t directly represent what ails this team right now.
) and to blame him will just throw a large blanket over all the problems that suffers this team!!
He’s a convenient whipping boy (if I could use this term without incurring suggestive critique.
It suggests to me that if he was replaced then it would right the ship and put us firmly back on course. Our midfield players would suddenly learn how make accurate passes, and out strikers would, overnight, become dead-eyed demons that bury every op they get!!
SAF has been the ideal of football management, he’s achieved every possible pinnacle there is at the club level, he’s guided us and spoiled us for over 20 great years, and he still remains a vital figure amongst his peers.
To me there’s not only an element of unfairness to us trying to nail him, but also a huge streak of ignorance!
After all it’s just not logical!!
October 28th, 2009 at 4:09
@Redrich: My concern is his stamina and his ability to stay healthy. Injuries have followed his early career. I’m also not sure of his passing ability as I saw some very easy passing options got to pot today because he failed to get the ball to the player. A couple of them were late when I think he was physically too tired but still, although I tend to agree with you, my jury is still out for a bit.
October 28th, 2009 at 4:25
@Grognard: Well yeah, it was a first look and anything could happen in the future.
I liked his liveliness and persistence, and as I said, he seems to have a physical edge over his defender. With some polishing he could be the real deal!!
October 28th, 2009 at 5:15
@Redrich GROGNARD’S NEW WORLD ORDER (A fantasy realization of the the future of Manchester United if he was in charge:
Sir Alex Ferguson leaving Man Utd would create chaos and incredible failure unless his successor is granted the tools (money) to rebuild the team. I think that there are too many players on this team that are not matching expectations and I think that wholesale changes are need over the period of three years to get this team back on course. So imagine For the sake of argument, that a regime change was to happen. What would the new leader of the team do with the present squad of players at hand?
For the sake of argument and some old fashioned fun, imagine that in that change of leadership, Grognard was put in charge, who are the players he would keep and who would be gone before he started to rebuild the team? In my not so humble opinion, these are the players that must be weeded out by 2012. EVDS, Foster, Kuszczak, Rio, Evra, Neville, Scholes, Giggs, Anderson, Nani, Park, Berbatov, Owen. A lot of one time great players on that list and a lot of young players who haven’t quite made their expected mark as well. I have spared some obvious names like O’Shea and Brown because I see them as valuable role players.
At present, this team is caught between two extremes. We have too many players that are just too old and finished and we have too many young players that are just not good enough or simply not ready yet. Where are those players in the middle who hold it all together? This team is lacking a large enough “middle class”. Players between 23-29 who can be stars and who can lead by experience and skill but are not too old that they show signs of slowing down or breaking down like Rio is starting to do. We have Vidic, Evra, Carrick, Fletcher, Valencia, Rooney and Berba and the mysterious ghost Owen Hargreaves. Some are great but not performing, others are showing signs of inconsistency and others just seem like their best is beyond them like Carrick and Evra.
I honestly do not like the shape and makeup of this club. SO, if life was presently like a marathon session of playing Football Manager and I was allowed by our corrupt owners to build my team with a specific and realistic budget very few of our squad would ever be selected by me based on present form and what the future holds. Guarantees for me as major players in my plans would be Vidic, Hargreaves (out of Canadian loyalty and love), Nani (simply because I like him), Rooney and amazingly now, I would select also select Fletcher. The rest unfortunately would be gone. Not because they all stink. Some do. Those who stink in my mind are Foster, Neville, Evra, Anderson, Scholes and Park. Neville and Scholes were once great but they stink now due to old age and signs of senility in their game. The others are just not very good. Evra has declined badly over the past two seasons and although he looked better early this season, he has once again reverted to being the infamous “Skinned Sausage” again. I’ll skin his sausage.
It’s no secret what I think of Anderson, Foster and Park. They simply sicken me. I cannot tolerate talentless footballers on the team I love. They are simply not United class. Before this team is to improve either before Fergie retires or after, there is going to have to be a major purge.
I’m reminded now of Stalins systematical rounding up of the White Party candidates during the Russian Revolution in 1917. His party of course were the Reds (Symbolic isn’t it) and in order to rule in his way, he had to get rid of his enemies. In my fantasy world and with my Football Manager version of United I would become Stalin or even better, Sulla from back in the days of Ancient Rome and create my “Black List”. You’ve already seen the names. Some others were close to making it but were spared. Those on the list have been crucified and are lining the Appian Way (Road leading in and out of Rome where the enemies would be crucified and line the way like trees) in my highly imaginative heavy handed and vindictive cyber fantasy world. I am a fearless leader and a ruthless one and the cleansing was necessary for a better Manchester United.
So now that I have trimmed the chaff and worthless refuse from our books and our roster, what now? Well now the first call of action is to have Mike Phelan publicly fired and forced to wear a Liverpool shirt and eat Scouse with his hands tied behind his back. Then he would join the rest of the castoffs. Now the job of finding a successor to take over for both the retired Fergie and the MIA Phelan. My pick for an assistant. I son’t know off hand who that would be, but just to piss of Dan, I’ll make sure he is German.
Now for the team. I like a number of the young players like Pogba, Ljajic, the Twins, Evans, Gibson, Ekhram and a few others. But they are not ready. Evans is very close but honestly, is he a future Rio or Vidic? I personally don’t think so. As for Welbeck and Macheda, they are both on double secret probation. I need to see more piss n vinegar out of both of them. Right now they are just jogging along and moping as well. I noticed Macheda hanging his head a lot today and Welbeck jogged around like he hadn’t a concern in the world. Frankly I don’t like their attitude so I order them to have 25 lashes. As for Zoran Tosic? He’s a tosser, be gone with him. Shrimp!.
Now I won’t waste any more of your time calling off the players I most want to come to United. There are many who are needed after such a purge. Although this is fantasy, I am not going to be completely unrealistic here. Names like Messi, Kaka, Ronaldo, Iniesta, Xavi etc are off limits. I am only going after players I believe can be bought and players who I feel would not only like to play for United, but would fit in well with the system. What is that system I plan using? Refer to Barcelona FC to find out. Attack, attack, attack and just in case that’s not enough….ATTACK. Offensively I want to unleash Hell. But in order for me to do this I need to be sure that i can count on my defense as much as possible. Therefore the signing of either Manuel Neuer or Rene Adler is number on my list followed by a CB to replace the aging and ailing Rio.
Now I go after the Gourcuff’s, Aguero’s, Ozil’s, Silva’s etc that i need to build my team. As for British players? If there are nay good ones available, then i’ll consider them, but I really, I’m not that desperate.
So there you have it. Now don’t you all wish my fantasy was real life? OK OK, stop witht he abuse, I was only ranting.
October 28th, 2009 at 5:17
@Redrich: Apparently from what RR is alluding, his football skill was not the only thing that……………caught your eye?
October 28th, 2009 at 7:16
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October 28th, 2009 at 7:25
@Grognard: Sir Alex Ferguson leaving Man Utd would create chaos and incredible failure unless his succe…. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
: Sir Alex Ferguson leaving Man Utd would create chaos and incredible failure unl….zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz 
Sir Alex Ferguson leaving Man Utd would create cha…zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Goodnight all. 
October 28th, 2009 at 8:08
@[OPTI]Madschester United: Piss off!
If you bothered to read further before you dozed off with your bad case of ADD, you would have realized that the whole thing was a joke.
October 28th, 2009 at 8:45
@Grognard: I stopped reading when I read “I have spared some obvious names like O’Shea and Brown because I see them as valuable role players.” Then because I have so little respect for my self I started reading again.
October 28th, 2009 at 8:48
@Grognard: telling some one to piss off aint to nice even if you do the fake thing a put a smiley face after it. Just a thought but how do you get time to study the performance and be a such a super fan if you spend most of the game typing really long posts on here.
October 28th, 2009 at 8:54
Has Fergie lost it. I know we won but what was that team selection all about. Is it possible that we the human race can lose it so quickly. One minute you are the greatest manager of a generation collecting league titles and battling with the best in Europe and the next you are lay on your back pissing all over your self declaring a Da Silva twin to be the next Roy Keane.
October 28th, 2009 at 10:02
@Red Ranter: YES!
October 28th, 2009 at 10:09
@Dan…
1) Potential can only take you so far. If you want to see potential, go see the Arsenal youth squad. Most of them are technically far superior to our kids.
2) Foster’s distribution is extremely poor, and thats a fact. Just compare Foster and VDS on goal kicks and clearances. While VDS tries to find a United player, sometimes playing it short, sometimes going long, Foster’s only aim seems to be to kick the ball as hard as possible without giving it any direction. Just count how many times the ball went straight out of play from goal kicks. And under pressure he simply crumbles while clearing. Watch how coolly VDS cleared the ball after an awkwards lob by Rio on the weekend and contrast that to Foster’s shambolic efforts at clearing when being closed down.
October 28th, 2009 at 11:02
Player ratings:
Foster – 7.0 – Yes his kicking was a bit shoddy, yes he almost slipped and fell and yes he probably isn’t going to be our number 1, but if his name wasn’t Ben Foster we’d all be perfectly happy with that performance. And it was a truly world class save that kept us 2-0 up at a crucial time. I’d rather a goal keeper who can do that then kick straight.
Neville – 0.0 – Great demonstration about professional mentality there Gary. Really showed our younger lads leadership, composure and discipline. Tit.
Brown – 6.0 – Was alright, but got skinned twice for the two shots on Foster towards the end, both times going in full blooded and not touching ball or man, allowing them in behind. Also, we lost just about every single header played in to their forwards. I thought Wes was supposed to be good in the air?
Evans – 6.0 – Similarly, we gave 17 shots to Barnsley. Seriously?
Fabio – 6.0 – Got caught upfield a good number of times, but does have the speed to recover. Against Championship teams. Also seems to not realise that Ben Foster is left footed, and hence should have back passes played to that side.
Anderson – 7.0 – Not quite as dominating as I’d hope against lower league opposition, but still controlled the game, both offensively and defensively. Had to work extremely hard as his other midfield partner didn’t really get positioning.
Rafael – 6.5 – Great first touch, good ability, great hair – but not a CMF. Fergie, wtf?! I’m hoping Gibson is injured…but where’s Matty James? You know, the reserve CMF? Also looked worryingly exhausted by about the 70th minute.
Welbeck – 6.5 – Looked okay to me. Nothing too special. Dead easy goal, should have put in Owen on two occasions. Looks a bit too arrogant, but hopefully he’ll come good.
Obertan – 7.5 – Really solid debut, am quietly excited. His head is also enormous. I mean, how strong must his neck be?
Macheda – 7.0 – Displayed some really tidy touches, but was generally starved of service. Also didn’t get his head near any fo the goal kicks that kept coming his way, not sure why that was. Maintained great possession towards the end when we needed to relieve pressure on our back 4.
Owen – 7.5 – Probably our best player. Not just the goal, but his movement and guile was head and shoulders above everyone else on the pitch. Which it should be at that level.
Tosic – 7.0 – Was I the only one who thought he looked really good? I don’t think he lost possession once, had some mazy dribbles and a superb turn and curler which was almost goal of the season stuff. Always played the right ball too. Watching him just made me wonder what the hell he has to do to get a match in the real team.
Fergie – 6.5 – I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt that all of the other first team midfielders were injured, and that he wanted to be aggressive. Not his fault Neville is an idiot.
October 28th, 2009 at 11:55
@Beachryan: about the central defenders..we had only one genuine CM and they bypassed that so its a bit unfair to say they didn’t play well..no you weren’t the only one who thought Tosic looked good..he has been like this for the reserves as well..the ball sticks to him like glue..i think he needs like Obertan to get a couple of games..maybe against the minnows or some home games against in the CL where Fergie loves to rotate?..the lad has like you said seems to have adapted to the physical aspects of the game..lets hope he can solve some of our problems on the left side of our team
October 28th, 2009 at 12:12
Valencia (the club) might be foced to sell both their David’s…
http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_5656862,00.html
Anyone else think we should put in a bid for the pair, maybe throw in Berba and Carrick as part of the deal….
October 28th, 2009 at 12:54
I’d trade Villa for Berbatov in a heartbeat, but I don’t see it happening. Villa desperately wanted to go to Madrid this summer, I’m still shocked he didn’t end up there. He’s repeated time and again that he doesn’t want to leave Spain, and I can’t seem him happy in Manchester. Not all quality players would pick United as a destination I’m afraid.
My creative mind wonders if there isn’t some kind of Villa to Mardid Benzema to United with Gourcuff and Blanc sometime next year possiblity…
October 28th, 2009 at 12:58
@Vivek: The English papers are reporting this morning that we’re going to use the Ronaldo money on both of them. That would be fucking brilliant. Which means it’s unlikely.
October 28th, 2009 at 13:34
will we use silva as a defensive midfielder and villa as a winger too?!
October 28th, 2009 at 13:41
@ Traverse…
Ah….I can just see the day when United have Villa, Rooney, Silva, Valencia, Hargo and Anderson/Fletch/Llaijac as the front 6…Well I can dream can’t I?
October 28th, 2009 at 13:42
Oh and Roberto Martinez has denied making the quotes against SAF. Surprise surprise, AS make some sh*t up. Is it too much to hope that the LMA sue them?
October 28th, 2009 at 15:19
@ROOOOONEY:
It was great humor mate…. I had a great laugh when I read it….. As it is the way Man UTD plays now a days pure joy is difficult to get…. But you did provide it……
Great humor… But, I wonder how will they react to it????
October 28th, 2009 at 15:22
@Beachryan: Not even Big Sam thinks he’s going to be the next United manager!!! It’s so mental you would have to make it up!
And a strike force of Rooney Villa Berbatov Owen would be the strongest since the treble.
Valencia Hargreaves Carrick Silva has a nice balance to it too…
October 28th, 2009 at 16:43
@Redrich: @Redrich: Agree about Brown. Most people around seem to praise his performance, but to me his was shoddy. The way he turned his back on the Barnsley striker when Foster made that one great save was simply schoolboy-defending and rather shocking. He has looked poor in most of his cameos this fall, and I believe there is a good reason Ferguson doesn’t plunge him back in the right-back position.
Saying that I see no good reason putting Rafael in central midfield so what do I know.
October 28th, 2009 at 17:09
@Vivek: 1) Utter bullshit. Arsenals youth squad is no better then ours, and if anything, over-rated.
2)If a goalkeeper kicks it long, it doesnt matter what goalkeeper in the world it is, whom ever they’re kicking it to will always be 50/50. Hes not going to pass it short if the defenders are being marked either. You lot are just finding anything to pick at in his game.
October 28th, 2009 at 17:09
@redtan: You are a newbie on this site. I have been here for three years and am very established. I’d suggest you know your damn role and stop acting like the moderator of this blog which you certainly are not. And your critique of my comments is fine if you disagree with my ideas but a major rule on here is to never get personal. I told someone to piss off because they got personal and insulted my efforts. Disagree with me, fine. Debate me, fine. Just don’t personally insult me. If you have a problem with my posts mate, i suggest you ignore them and move on. Nobody is forcing you to read them.
October 28th, 2009 at 17:12
@Dan: Dan I’d normally apologize for misreading your post but I’m sorry, it just meant no sense to me and I took it for something else. You have to stop being so vague. I saw the game and missed the moment you are talking about. What about those who never saw the game at all and who read your comment. What are they supposed to think? I hope you see my point.
October 28th, 2009 at 17:14
@Vivek: It’s the confusion and dilly dallying that he does even before he kicks the ball that drives me up the wall. And it’s got to be perfectly positioned for his right foot or he can’t kick it. He is beyond useless, he’s the King of Comedy.
October 28th, 2009 at 17:20
@Beachryan: Sorry mate it has nothing to do with his name being Ben Foster. Giving him a 7 for all those technical and mental mistakes is borderline ludicrous. He made one incredible save and even that does not warrant him a 7. Some on here may automatically give him a fail just because his name is Ben Foster, I on the other hand pride myself on being fair. I do not like him as a keeper but I do not have anything against Ben the person. He sickens me as a goalkeeper but as a person, I know nothing about him. So if I was to rate his performance yesterday, I would have given him a 5 because of all his awkward moments with the ball and his terrible distribution and how often he let crosses into the 8 yard box go without even trying for one. He made that one fantastic save but that could not save him from a failing grade despite not having given up a goal. But seriously, if Barnsley’s forwards had an ounce of talent, they would have put five behind him yesterday as he was clearly beaten on a number of shots that went wide or high.
October 28th, 2009 at 17:22
@Vivek: Yes like any Spanish club would be interested in a lead footed English kid. How many English players are playing in Spain at the moment? And you forget that Carrick and Berba make a lot of money. Money Valencia hasn’t got to spend on players.
October 28th, 2009 at 17:24
@Grognard: And nobody is forcing you to read his, or even reply. You are not in charge here, stop acting like it. You put people off of reading the blog.
October 28th, 2009 at 17:25
@Grognard: Nope, i dont see your point at all. If they didnt see the game, they would clearly see i was talking about events during the game, and if they had brain, they wouldnt comment until they’ve seen what i was talking about.
October 28th, 2009 at 17:25
@Beachryan: Villa will end up in Barcelona because this is probably Henry’s last season with the club. A natural move would be to partner him up with Messi and the Bitch. And the only other team I could see possibly getting him would be Chelsea but that is a slim on eat best. As for Silva, I have no idea. I’d love to see him here but I do not think we have two coins to rub together as I feel the Glazer’s are sucking the lifeblood out of the club.
October 28th, 2009 at 17:27
@ROOOOONEY: And I think Fergie has considered trying both of them at left back and DMF as well.
Seriously though, why would either want to come here? They watch the tv, they see our games and the style of football we are playing. Many of us cannot stomach watching the team play, do you think two highly talented and offensive minded Spaniards would want to come to a team that plays like that?
October 28th, 2009 at 17:27
@Grognard: Hes left footed
Guess your expert analysis failed to see this.
October 28th, 2009 at 17:29
@Traverse: That last line, hes not the only one. There are a few on here that just make me wonder sometimes.
October 28th, 2009 at 17:32
@Vivek: You had me salivating until you added the name Anderson to that list. What is it about Anderson fans? What is it about Anderson that turns all of you on so much? He is the dullest, most exasperatingly frustrating player I have ever watched. Not an ounce of genuine talent with no finesse on the ball or the kind of skills necessary for an attacking midfielder. All he is good at is sticking his fat ass out to shield the ball from opponents. To pass to the left side, he has to do a 180 degree turn in order to be able to accomplish that because he has no right foot whatsoever. And he’s dumb as nails with no football sense. What is it about Anderson? Seriously, I don’t get it.
October 28th, 2009 at 17:35
@Traverse: Villa is a great player but he is very close to 30. I wouldn’t touch him because we would only have a few years of top play from him if a miracle occurred and he actually wanted to come here.
October 28th, 2009 at 17:37
@Dan: The problem with Foster kicking it long is it’s never 50/50 mate, it’s usually 5/95 against us.
And what about all the crap that happens just before he kicks the ball. He is annoying as Hell and he’s also getting on his defenders nerves I noticed.
October 28th, 2009 at 17:39
@Traverse: I’m just sticking up for myself mate. If people come on this blog to debate or to comment on football, that is fine with me. But if they come on just to insult me and get away with it, well that’s not going to get by me. If you have a problem with me, take it up with Red Ranter. Otherwise, mind your own business.
October 28th, 2009 at 17:40
@Dan: If you ignore the foster bashing it will go away. People get tired of arguing with themselves.
October 28th, 2009 at 17:41
@Dan: It’s all about the use of English on the Internet mate. Your comment was vague to me. I read it as something else entirely because I never saw the moment you were “vaguely” referring to. I’m not asking for an apology or for your understanding mate. I’m clearly making my case for why I didn’t get it. So live with it OK.
October 28th, 2009 at 17:43
@Grognard: He said its rude to tell someone to shut up, which it is. Thats hardly insulting you.
October 28th, 2009 at 17:45
@Grognard: You were never going to get an apology from me anyway
It wasnt at all vague if you had seen it. Simple as.
October 28th, 2009 at 17:48
@Dan: Mate, he told to piss off because someone made a snide rude comment at him in the first place. He wasn’t being rude in the first place.
October 28th, 2009 at 17:50
@Dan: Care to name names??
October 28th, 2009 at 17:51
@Dan: …and you give a flyer about that kind of stuff!!
October 28th, 2009 at 17:52
@Grognard: @Dan: There is no need for apology from either side here. I hadn’t seen the match but I’d heard of the incident because it was pointed to by a mate. But if I hadn’t seen anything I wouldn’t have read too much into Dan’s comment because I would know he was describing some event in the match as it went on. Most people leave vague comments during a match because it’s understood others who are following the game would get it. So let’s stop talking about this now before it gets too silly.
October 28th, 2009 at 19:00
@ Grognard – Two thoughts on Foster last night:
1. Why does he get so many more backpasses than other keepers (seriously it was almost 1 every minute in the first half for a spell. I think the fact that his clearances was so prominent in the match speaks more of our defenses’ utter inability to bypass the midfield, and the midfields utter inability to pass it to the forwards.
2. He also claimed every cross that came near him, made a decent tip round the post and kept a clean sheet against 17 attempts. Fine, I’ll reduce it to a 6.5, but that’s what I want from a keeper
October 28th, 2009 at 19:12
@Beachryan: But he should be able clear it still no matter how many he gets. Its a basic required skill for a keeper to clear the ball. He cant. In preseason the backpass went under his foot against that Malaysian team. We like to keep possesion and backpassing to a keeper how ever irritating happens. What we dont need is clearances that land at the feet of players inviting pressure. Fergie will get tired of foster soon. His only ability is reaction and thats not good enough for this club.
October 28th, 2009 at 20:04
@Taehr: Yes, lets use a pre-season game, that happened to be his first game in months, to back up your argument. Great idea!
Fact is, a clearance is clearing the ball out the box, foster did that.
October 28th, 2009 at 21:47
As others have said United thrives on retaining possession, when the ball is layed back to the keeper, they need to have confidence either we’ll keep the ball or punt it into an area to give one of our players a chance, not punt it low and risk it going straight back to the opposition inviting pressure back. There is such a thing as a poor clearance. Foster last night looked like he wasn’t happy getting all those back passes, he wanted none of it. That isn’t a good sign.
As for Rafael in the middle when I first saw the line up before the game I thought he was going to play right wing and Obertan in the middle ahead of Anderson, that seemed to make more sense. From what I hear, Gibson was injured (why he didn’t play). As for the other reserves, my guess is that those aren’t players SAF thinks are going to play first team games this season. Rafael needed a competitive match and has more of a chance than any of the other reserves to play regular first team games, Game wise tactically it wasn’t right but, maybe right for what he wants for Rafael.
We got lucky that Barnsley were poor at finishing or we would have been under a lot of pressure. The win though helps us going into this weekend. A good win against Rover to build up our confidence for a pivotal game the week after.
Lets not forget Barnsley has done well last couple of years against our top rivals. So give the kids some credit for winning.
October 28th, 2009 at 22:04
@Dan: Jesus H Christ man, I wasn’t asking for an apology. I just made the comment that I didn’t understand you post, that’s all. Stop being so defensive and if I disagree with your comments, take it like a man. If I misunderstand your comments then kindly enlighten me and move on. Instead of this childish head bashing you seem to want to get into with me whenever I give a negative critique to one of you wonder boys.
October 28th, 2009 at 22:05
@Dan: WTF are you talking about?
October 28th, 2009 at 22:09
@Red Ranter: I wasn’t asking for any kind of apology RR, and I made that clear. But I also was not going to apologize due to the vagueness of his statement and how easily it could be misunderstood or misconstrued. It was him coming back at me that made a mountain out of a mole hill. It’s yet again and problem of touchy nerves on his part due to his illness called Fosteritis.
A joke by the way. Similar to illness I suffer form which is Huntelaarosis and Riquelme Syndrome.
October 28th, 2009 at 22:14
@Beachryan: It’s not just this game mate, but it’s just so much more noticeable with Foster because he is dallying about with ball and rearranging his position and footwork so that he can kick the ball. The lad is just so unsure of himself in this area of the game as he is when it comes to charging out for dangerous crosses or corners. EVDS is not perfect by no means but he handles back passes like it’s nobody’s business and distributes the ball quickly and fluidly without monstrous delays and moments of stress. And his long balls are 50/50 where Fosters are never……and I mean never at one of our players or even close to one of our players. It’s just an unforced giveaway in my books. There are teams that don’t even use the long kick very often because they feel it is a low percentage play and just a free giveaway. I tend to agree. When I am playing FIFA, I rarely if ever use it because I have no faith in it no matter who the keeper is or if the target man is Peter Crouch like in height.
And he allowed so many free headers in side the 8 yard box last night I was screaming at the tv. Were you watching the same game mate?
October 28th, 2009 at 22:17
@Dan: WAH WAH WAH! Enough already. Stop being such a baby or I’ll get RR to send you an officially approved and licensed Grognard soother.
October 28th, 2009 at 22:22
On the more positive side of things, check this out. And I thought we were bad. Jeez, we are super human compared to this lot right now.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2009/oct/28/real-madrid-alcoron-copa-del-rey
October 28th, 2009 at 22:33
@Grognard: Funny enough they call them “Dummies” in the UK!
October 28th, 2009 at 23:02
@Dan: Clearing the ball at grass height? Is that what you say is a good clearance?
And Yea only foster needs loads of games to enable him to control and clear the ball. He needs loads of match practice for that difficult task.
Anyway hel never be number one so I dunno why I bother.
The Arsenal liverpool game showed yet again how many good young players arsenal have. On Ramsey someone fucked up seriously because he is special. Anderson and him are quite far apart. His passing and dribbling is good. Arsenal have loads of good youngsters. I think ours are more likely to break through. Obertan, fabio esp
October 28th, 2009 at 23:08
@Taehr: I stopped reading after your first line. You obviously never saw the game if you think all his clearances were “grass” height.
October 28th, 2009 at 23:09
@Taehr: De laet has a far better chance of making it at left back then fabio. Fabio is more of a winger then left back.
October 28th, 2009 at 23:29
@Grognard: Mate, he’s had enough grief over Foster already. Ben Foster is a touchy subject for him as much as Huntelaar/Ballack is for you and Nani is for Craig. We are all for free expression here, but sometimes it wouldn’t kill us to stay off this subject (or baiting, for that matter) — in the interest of general debate on this board.
October 29th, 2009 at 2:07
@Anders: Yeah, I’ve rated Brown poorly in most of his appearances this season. It’s gonna be a tough road for him to win his spot back now, with competition coming all over the place. When he gets his opportunity, he needs to make better use of it!!
October 29th, 2009 at 2:26
@Shimo: When I look at how we play when building an attack, it amazes me at how erratic and uncontrolled our play is!! And when pressure is put on us, it all becomes so much more exacerbated.
There seems to be little methodology in our build up, save to say, a need to move forward!!
October 29th, 2009 at 3:32
@Redrich: Seriously?
October 29th, 2009 at 3:36
@Taehr: Don’t get me started on Ramsey. When I think of how we could have had him but gave him the worst sales pitch in history (sicked Gary Neville on him to give him a tour of OT) while Wenger flew him and his parents to Switzerland to wine and dine them and them have them watch a EURO game in a box seat with him. Now I may be easily seduced but which one would you pick, wine and food in Zurich or a chat and walk with Franck Ribery’s long lost older brother?
October 29th, 2009 at 3:42
@Red Ranter: Mate I didn’t start it. Somebody else brings up Fooster’s bad habits and then Dan gets all bent out of shape and it starts. Then I get all fed up with the BS he is spouting because Foster is a true ass clown of epic proportions but this guy refuses to get it. As for Huntelaar and Ballack, I am defending world class players with a proven pedigree, not some Watford reject who has a hard time kicking a round ball without line it up like a pool shot. If he can’t take the heat, he should bloody well shut the fuck up when it comes to defending already. He has nothing to defend, that;s the absurd thing about it. I agree, it’s a tired bloody farce and I am sick and tired of people bringing Foster up because it just brings out the worst in Dan and then my nerves get all shot because i cannot tolerate complete utter stupidity masquerading for loyalty and knowledge. Some people need to grow up.
October 29th, 2009 at 4:52
@Grognard: Yeah I was alittle confused about them using Neville. At the very least send giggs. it actually didnt matter , because fergie basicaly went out of his way to show ramsey he didnt care wether he joined the club or not.
October 29th, 2009 at 5:42
@Red Ranter: “Piss off”, “Snide rude comment”… Is it that time of the month?? If you paid attention to the time stamp on the comment, you would know that it was VERY late in my time zone – hence me going to bed coincided with me scrolling the blog —
From what I understand about smilies they are graphical and
looks like someone who just woke up from dozing off. Hence I used them to convey the feeling of me dozing off and finally going to bed with a “Goodnight all 
” (which I hardly find of negative connotation). My efforts of producing a late-night joke were misinterpreted by Grognard and yourself. For this, I apologize.
RR, I think you are feeding Grognard’s ego with all this protection when he has his hizzy fits. His response to me and redtan were out of proportion (per usual).
@Grognard: Grognard, until RR gives you the reins of redrants.com you are merely a pawn like the rest of us. Your opinions are EQUAL to all other opinions – even Dan’s stubborn pro-foster view. I think it is time you come back from your high clouds and find your place on this blog – amongst the rest of us.
I have been super busy with work and will likely not come back here until 24+ hours from now, so bear with my lack of responses.
October 29th, 2009 at 6:22
@Grognard: Yes you didn’t start it, but sometimes someone can perpetuate it. Let me spell it out for you:
This comment (ie, @Dan: ) was addressed to Taehr. But you butted in with this: WAH WAH WAH! Enough already. Stop being such a baby or I’ll get RR to send you an officially approved and licensed Grognard soother.
You can call it a joke, but it makes him out to be a child throwing his toys out of the pram. We all know what you think of Foster, and the several times you’ve told Dan to get his head examined etc. So why another cutting remark? Sometimes jokes won’t be taken in the right spirit.
Also regarding this comment of yours:
As for Huntelaar and Ballack, I am defending world class players with a proven pedigree, not some Watford reject who has a hard time kicking a round ball without line it up like a pool shot
It’s not about someone defending a world class player or a pub player. Both people must be given enough space to be able to defend them without being talked down. And both you and Dan have had your history of talking down to one another. If Dan defends Foster let him. If you don’t like it, and everyone knows that you don’t, just bite your tongue and let him defend it to whoever he is defending him with. Is that so much to ask?
October 29th, 2009 at 6:29
@[OPTI]Madschester United: That smiley intends to convey shock. Not waking up from slumber. And I think almost everyone would interpret that smiley as a “shock” smiley. Which was completely out of place and made no sense really. I’ve read that comment again, and it still does not fit in with your interpretation. It still looks like you couldn’t be arsed to read his comment. Which I think is snide enough for anyone to be pissed off with it.
Secondly regarding feeding Grognard’s ego, I’ve been accused of targeting Grognard by Grognard himself, as much as I’ve been accused of favouring him. So go figure. I won’t read much into that. I’ll go with what I think is right according to the situation.
FYI, just now I was asking people to give Dan a break, and I am expending my precious energy and time to explain the situation to people who would care to hear. So give me a break before you go off on your conspiracy theories.
October 29th, 2009 at 7:12
@[OPTI]Madschester United: You apologize for your comments and I accept you apology knowing that it was meant in jest, but your response to me now is actually even more hurtful. I do not consider myself some kind of uberlord on this site and I don not live like Zeus above the clouds and shoot lightning bolts on those who annoy me although the thought of such power does stimulate my senses to say the least.
It bothers me what you are saying because it upsets me that you would think of me ion that way. I am not the person you think I am and so your opinion of me is wrong and your insinuations that I like to be in charge or in control are very very wrong. And Red Ranter does not protect me like you think. He has come down on me many times and has not supported me on numerous squabbles that i have had with members, so kindly get off his back. As far as apologies go mate, you owe him a big one for those comments. Very untrue to say the least. As for me, well I’ll just go on but I will know that in the back of your mind, you really do not have a very favorable opinion about me and thats too bad, because I have nothing against you.
October 29th, 2009 at 7:14
@Red Ranter: Fine RR, I get your point. Still, I can only tolerate so much childishness. Perhaps I was wrong in perpetuating it but he has been told a long time ago to let this fucking Foster thing go and he won’t stop. Perhaps the problem needs to be stopped at the source. I’m not the only one who is sick and tired of the Foster suck ass crap. The reason it continues to boil is that Foster continues to annoy many of our members whenever he plays. Unless the one supporter of Foster sucks it up and learns to ignore the abuse, it will never stop. I get involved only after my patience is challenged and i can no longer take the kids stuff.
October 29th, 2009 at 7:21
@Red Ranter: Regardless of what you say, this is my definition of
.
Shock in my book involves movement of the mouth at least… but it is a moot point to discuss.
Regarding conspiracy theories, there are too many to count.
Goodnight
October 29th, 2009 at 10:25
Watched Liverpool v Arsenal in the cup, and it really got me thinking. What is our identity? As I tried to make clear the other day, I don’t believe we have anywhere near the best first XI in the prem (probably the 3rd/4th if I’m honest) and Fergie has never been the best tactically (flukes like Chelsea last season aside). So how are we so successful? What is the ‘United Way?’
Arsenal play like Barca: small passing triangles very close together combined with superb technique and close control, basically wriggle their way through teams
Chelsea outmuscle and wear down their opponents with pure atheleticism
Liverpool bore their opponents to death and have the best striker in the world
I have no idea what we do. We play a 442 with deep lying central midfielders. We don’t get loads of crosses in, and our strikers aren’t very good at getting on the end of them anyway. We have one winger who hugs the touch line and never comes infield, and we almost never actually play the other winger, opting for a striker (Welbeck) or a midfielder (Park/Giggs) who don’t have pace and can’t whip crosses in. We don’t play one touch very often. We don’t hoof it very often.
Basically, I think we’re in a whole pile of crap, and it’s the 442 that some people have been begging for. It just doesn’t work at the moment. Maybe with a full season of it we’ll improve, but at the moment we’re conceding more than last year and scoring less. When we played a 442 in the late 90’s, our CMFs would take turns getting forward to offer penetrating runs into the box. Now they don’t. Plus with Yorke and Cole we had two strikers that could lead the line and get to crosses.
I fear Fergie has equipped us with personnel that aren’t suited to playing 442, but for some reason is desperate to stick to it. And I can’t see how it’s going to suddenly start working.
It hurts me to say it, but for the benefit of the team, I think we need to shift to a 4-2-3-1, and sacrifice good ole Rooney outwide:
—–Carrick–Fletcher——
–Giggs-Berbatov-Rooney—–
———-Owen————–
The middle three could obviously move around, with Owen leading the line and getting in behind. I trust Rooney and Giggs to offer support defensively when needed but hopefully with our midfield never getting into the opponents final third they wouldn’t have to do much.
Anyway, does anyone see us being able to actually manage a 442?
October 29th, 2009 at 10:29
I’m going to agree with Dan. I’ve never seen such one dimensional viewpoints in my life. Foster was crap as usual even though noone can actually come up with a reason why. Some of the reactions are zombie like. I’m pretty sure had it been Foster in goal at Liverpool he’d have been blamed and bashed for the goals we conceded. How is his kicking atrocious? What is he supposed to kick the football up to Juninho or Xabi Alonso’s standards? Poor midfield showing by Anderson. Can ppl not even consider a few things before such conclusions. How about the fact that he had a partner who was pretty much confused as to why he was playing in that position. To work in midfield you need to have a partner at 100% who is well aware of what his job is and can actually execute it. How do you “boss” a midfield when you playing in tandem with an inexperienced right back? Do you need to be a rocket scientist to figure that out? What of the simple fact that we played the rest of the game with 10 men. You still expect this team which has never played together to just blitz Barnsley like they are not even a team worth talking about. Can they not be seen to be on the same level of the recently promoted Burnley who beat us? What of Ferguson’s always baffling and counterproductive tactics and positioning? Under the circumstances we should actually be applauding these youngsters because quite frankly they might as well have been playing with blindfolds with those stupid tactics. To be honest I think Ole should be allowed to coach the Carling Cup matches so he can simply play his own youngsters with his own sane system. Was it necessary to have Neville play? No. Was it logical to play Rafael in midfield? A big NO. I’m actually impressed by these youngsters because they are being defeated by the manager but still come up with the results. This is the 2nd game that they have won with wierd and stupid tactics and playing with ten men. And all the intelligent posters here can say is these young players are useless. Did you watch Real Madrid play a 3rd division team and being massacred 4 nil? With mainly 1st team players. Give these kids a break if you are so one dimensional in your views on football.
October 29th, 2009 at 11:18
@Grognard: You know what, you are the most hypocritical person on this blog. My god, if anyone made that sort of post about you, we wouldnt hear the end of it. You’d be bitching for days. Do you ever just stop and think about what your posting?
And huntelaar is not world class, he warmed the bench at madrid, and is warming it again at milan, with no goals what so ever.
October 29th, 2009 at 11:42
@Beachryan: Very valid points indeed, just to elaborate a little. I am actually a lover of 4-4-2, I think it leads to good football with a nice balance between defence and attack. The problem is , our personnel do not suit the system. You see with the previous crop of players you had exactly what was required to play the system. Two wingers in that og Giggs and Beckham, not wingers but with very different qualities, and then most importantly you had good target men up front.Guys who could actually head the football. And Keane used to hold and scholes was our play maker and got the odd goal too which was required. Now with our current set of players, most of them do fit the profile for this system, since the manager is so keen on it, he needs to adapt it slightly9Just a thought. Our forwards clearly cant head the ball even if it struck them on the head. So our wingers need to play the ball to feet, just not hit and hope crosses. What our team lacks is a ball carrying midfielder, someone who can actually make the midfield runs. You dead on when you say we play with deep lying midfielders and thats fine but only when you have an outlet(Ronaldo), so you see we still lack that player in midfield. Maybe Adam or Possebon in the future but now we will be stuck with holding midfielders.(Hargo, Fletcher, Anderson, the whole lot of them). With regard to formation(still love 4-4-2) we might be able to play 4-3-1-2. Use all three of our defensive midfielders, and in front of them play Rooney/Berbatov with two strikers(Owen/Rooney/Berbatov depending on who wants to sit in the hole), now this might seem too attacking and against Uniteds way of play which is width, but this might work. Of course Owen will flourish with this system which plays through the middle and occassional width from the full backs. Sounds crazy, but then again it wil be beautiful.
October 29th, 2009 at 13:54
Apologies for the poor grammer, hope it made sense!
October 29th, 2009 at 16:43
@[OPTI]Madschester United: The problem here mate is that your interpretation of the smiley is not the same as 99.9% of the rest of the world. Smiley’s are a universal language unto themselves with strict definitions. The one you chose is universally known as “Shock”, not Mr. Bean. So please understand that i completely misunderstood your e-mail to me because of what you wrote but also because the smiley’s you added didn’t make any sense to me. It’s not a big deal and am fine with everything and if you were just joking no apology is even needed, but I just wanted to make it clear to you, I read the post differently than how you intended it. Anyway, lets move on to other things shall we.
October 29th, 2009 at 16:45
@[OPTI]Madschester United: I too should let you know that I use this smiley a lot
and it gets me in trouble with Red Ranter as he has a different understanding of it’s meaning than me. So I do see your point, believe me.
October 29th, 2009 at 17:02
@Beachryan: Arsenal play like Barca but are not Barca. We learned that the hard way late last season. As for what we platy, I can tell you exactly what we play. It’s a hybrid of the Italian and English games. Fergie has borrowed heavily from AC MIlan’s old playbook and it especially shows when we are in Europe (barring the Rome debacle last May). But in England we use it but are prone to try to incorporate a little more speed and more direct balls as a mix. The Milan system basically consists of two central midfielders who play way back and defend and two wingers who player higher up and cut in a lot as play makers while the strikers weave and spend very little time acting like central strikers. It works when you have the talent and the legs to pull it off, but when the talent isn’t there or cannot conform to the system, and the legs start feeling the age, it shows up badly. Four years ago when Pirlo, Kaka, Inzaghi and a lot of those Milan players were young and quick enough, it worked well. But look at Milan now. Older, slower and sucking wind. Why? Because like us, they are losing the midfield battle. The only midfield battle they have won all year was against the one team that has no midfield because they are all trying to be strikers and that’s Real Madrid.
This is all bad enough when Fergie borrows from somebody, but then his own tactical ineptitude has forced him to treat the game like a recipe for Milanese meat sauce and to throw some of his own spices into this Milanese concoction. His own British beliefs and tactical staples have been included which is his propensity for the long ball at times. Watch Serie A, you rarely see a direct ball. The ball is played on the ground and possession is 9/10 of the law. Well Fergie believes that but he still likes to avoid his midfield as much as possible and quite often gets his keepers or defenders to bypass the midfield and just punt long direct balls to the strikers or wingers. This was very evident against Liverpool and Barnsley this week. And above all, he has fallen in love with the worst tactic of all footballing tactics, the perpetual backpass. When in jeopardy, back pass is his motto. Our club has no bite because our club takes no chances on attack. When unsure, back pass. Man we play rubbish football these days. It wouldn’t be so bad if the Boss still had it when it comes to his superior motivational skills and man management, but even there, i seriously am having doubts about him. We are 1-0 down to liverpool in the 80th minute and he is seen chewing his gum and sitting on his hands while Rafa is on the touchline screaming and gesturing orders to his troops. Fergie could stand to read a little about Julius Caesar and George Patton, and less from the bible of armchair generals around the world. He needs to show more commitment and passion towards his players if he want s them to show it on the pitch. To me United look more and more like a cold corporate entity these as opposed to a football club. Thats all that concerns Man Utd these day’s their corporate brand.
October 29th, 2009 at 17:14
@Dan: Stop your crying already. Is that all you are capable of mate. Enough. Your insults mean nothing to me because they sound like the rants of a 4 year old. It’s hard to take a 4 year old seriously when he calls you a hypocrite because all he does is cry all day long and bitch about his food and his toys. I couldn’t give a rats ass what you think of Huntelaar because I regard your opinion as seriously biased and based on vengeance and bitterness. Fact is your replies sound childish. Truly, I’m tired of you and your Foster butt fuckathon. The guy sucks supremely and you will never ever see this because you have this strange and bent loyalty to the young payers of this team that for me seems a little creepy. So rotate on that Danny boy and kindly keep your insults and jibes to yourself. Insults don’t hurt me much anymore Dan, stupidity of others does. Give this topic a bloody rest already and we can go back to being friendly and cordial to one another, or at least civil. But you just can’t let it go now can you? RR tells me to leave you alone and yet you come back with the hypocrisy bit. You just don’t get it do you?
October 29th, 2009 at 17:22
@Beachryan: 4-2-3-1 would work mate but it still needs a player with the class to produce goals. When we used it last year against Arsenal away, we scored 3 goals but we also had Ronaldo as the one up front. Owen is no longer prolific enough, Berbatov is a hopeless case with us and Rooney is fine on the left side, I agree. We still need that goal scorer and we still need one of those five midfielders to become a play maker, a person who will continually look for Owen and anyone else. Instead, we look to back pass all day long. This club plays without vision or imagination. Rarely do we see players around the box work subtle 1,2’s or back passes other than Berbatov. And when he performs them, others are usually asleep to his thinking. Tactics are one thing mate, but this team needs greater motivation and a above all, it needs a serious injection of world class talent to help it get over the post Ronaldo blues.
October 29th, 2009 at 17:27
How long have I been away?! Seems this place cant live without me, fights all over the place!
Oh well…
Im gonna have my say on things in a short time.
October 29th, 2009 at 17:45
@Grognard: Now mate, this is not a comment directed to only this post. Its about your theory all together. Now this is not a critism of your philosophy(If you can call it that), but rather a wake up call. Most people would rather hope for the best and live the bad. Its the cycle of life. If you dont believe or hope to get the best, then what the fuck is the point of living. If none of us expect United to win anything this year, then what the fuck is the reason to follow the team? Makes no sense to me, especially as the ONE THING, if you are ever going to learn one thing as a United fan, its to always believe and enver give up. The line says itself, We`ll never die! So most people would rather not hope or expect the worst, as it doesnt help them a lot. You say it yourself, I expect the worst so I can get a pleasent surprise when we win. Well, suit yourself, but most people dont look at it that way. And besides, even though thats your theory you always get mad when we lose. You are all doom and gloom, and when stuff are bad you have every right to be pessimistic. But when things are actually great, or in situations when people should hope for the best and take Obamas catchphrase into account, you should hope for the best and believe that it will happen. Makes you happier, and even though your experience is vital and you may not think of it the way we do as you have been through many things and lived through waaaaaay more than me, you should still hope for the best. Sometimes it looks like you hope the bad is gonna happen, which may piss off a lot of people. Now I dont care too much myself about that, but other people may take offence of that and that itself creates discussions and make you controversial. Just saying mate.
October 29th, 2009 at 18:24
@Grognard: You know what, there is so, so much i could say about you, you’re posts, your personality. You are massively flawed, you think you are always right, you think your opinion means more then anybody elses, you cry like a bitch when someone says the slightest thing to you, then you will say things a lot lot worst, like insulting their intelligence, as if to say your mind is a gift from the gods. Then when we complain, you call us children. You are one fucked person, do you know that?
You are not above anyone on this site, despite what you believe. And im not the only one that thinks this. You are a good person, but you are massively flawed, and these are some home truths that you may or may not have known.
October 29th, 2009 at 18:28
@Footy4Eddy: Eddy forgive me for saying this but you are what 16 or 17 now. I have followed United for more than twice your lifetime and I followed them when they had become complete shite in the 80’s before Fergie. You only know United during Fergie’s regime so it makes total sense for you to be all positive and to expect everything to be super, but I remember the bad times and I was alive and aware of the truly dreadful times when the team was actually relegated back in the 73/74. I became a hard core fan just two seasons after that. I have been with the team through the good and the bad and i have seen the club endure slumps as well.
My problem with the club now is the realization that Fergie has reached the end of the line with this present group of players and that he has also reached the end of his success as a manager. It’s time for a regime change, and not just the manager, but the ownership of the club must change for this club to ever feel the power to maintain it’s domination of the English game. A massive debt and a yearly transfer kitty of 20 million is not going to do a damn thing for United and it’s important for you and other like minded individuals to realize this. The club is in massive trouble and it’s important to come to grips with that reality. We make a lot of money but it’s as if the money made then goes through a paper shredder thanks to the Glazer’s. Theat family of ass clowns has forced Fergie to put up with things as they are and have literally tied his hands behind his back when it comes to making the moves necessary to improve this club.
And lets not leave Ferguson blameless in all this. He has plenty to answer for but my loyalty to him and trust still remains even though I have massive doubts. I feel that if only he was given the money to buy the players he needs to restructure the club, then we would be alright. But that has not yet happened and I seriously doubt it will under the Glazers. I’ve been around a long time mate so please grant me the right to brood and whine as I feel like doing. Frankly, after 35 years I have earned that right. I have seen the ups and the downs and i am desperate to not see the downs again, Ron Atkinson be damned. I want united to get their house in order and stop being nothing more than a corporate whore. Start caring about the fans again and about producing the kind of product we all want to see. It’s not just about winning at united, it’s about winning with style. The day we left that motto behind was the day things started to go pear shaped for the club on the pitch. I’d rather lose 3-4 than lose 0-1 with no great scoring chances. We lost to liverpool in a massive game and created one great scoring chance all afternoon. That is not the United I have grown up to know over the past 35 years. It’s time to put the fans first again and entertainment back into the product.
October 29th, 2009 at 18:30
@Dan: Sticks and stones little man, sticks and stones. And trust me, you do not want me to define who you are. Now go back to your crib and play with your toys.
October 29th, 2009 at 18:44
I just saw the juventus-sampdoria game. And Diego is one special player. Deco is a poor man’s diego! We do not have anyone with that range of passing, intent to attack and vision. Some of his through balls and lobs to the wide players coming into the box just make you think about what we’re missing as a team.
October 29th, 2009 at 18:47
@Grognard: And there you go again. Despite what you may think, you are not above me or anyone on this blog. The only child i see is you. Funny considering your age.
October 29th, 2009 at 19:03
cunts!
http://picasaweb.google.com/bildani/UntitledAlbum#5398083537687487842
October 29th, 2009 at 19:04
Are we really discussing the interpretation of smileys??
October 29th, 2009 at 19:18
@Dan: Well excuse me then as I am a little too busy playing with my Lego set and Transformers to sit here and argue with you. Bye bye.
October 29th, 2009 at 19:26
@Dan: yes they do play in the league, but none of them play for united. so the stakes are to high for them for united’s first team.
October 29th, 2009 at 19:55
@Grognard: I don’t know why… But I have a feeling that this 4-3-2-1 will work MUCH better…….
EVDS
Rafael/Brown Ferdinand Vidic Evra
Hargreaves/Fletcher Anderson/Carrick
Valencia Rooney/Giggs Nani
Berba/Owen
Just your thoughts… Because this would be the system we played in 06/07 when we won the first title and by far in my view played the sexiest football ever….
Tell me of your thoughts.. Because I know this would work as we are basically just replacing Ronaldo with Valencia.. And I know it’s a difference but still….
Either this… Or a 4-2-4 would be sexy as well…
October 29th, 2009 at 20:17
@Grognard: …and what is tactics anyway? I remember watching Dowie on the touch line making signs to his players and all the commentators were wondering what he was doing! the next week, they were the same dumb a**es shouting how tactical Mour was while he was using the same signs giving instructions to his players.
Grog, why stub yo’self in the back, you blame United for playing negative football which falls straight to SAF and then try to measure his tactical acumen using the most negative football manager i’ve seen in football history? Yo kidding me! It was roumoured that CQ was the man behind the formations and tactics of United, not so? …what has achieved without SAF? You talk of Capello, same boring and negative football year after year, has he added anything to the 3 lions? Time will tell, a man who likes 4-5-1 as satan likes hell!
From the few good teams that play the so called entertaining football that i’ve seen, its not tactics that made them prosper. it was their phylosophy: attack attack attack. If you have technically gifted players, the only task is to teach them how to keep the ball and let them enjoy themselves, there’s no way how their opponent is going to have a go at them when he’s never in possession of the ball, “Rome rings into my mind” and that was the foundation of total football.
October 29th, 2009 at 20:38
@Darth Red Diablo: The reason it has a chance to work is that it forces them to have to play creatively in the center of midfield. All those bodies just behind the striker has to create something. Then again, not if Anderson, Scholes or Park are involved.
October 29th, 2009 at 20:44
@Jay Jay: And tell me, do United look like they are enjoying themselves? Do they look like they are attacking attacking attacking? Too many of us are living in the past when the game was more entertaining. The bottom line today is the result, not the entertainment value. The dollar value means more to teams and the managers as well as the job security from securing points for the team means more to these people than winning over the fans by playing champagne football. There are negative coaches out there but some are seen as being negative when in fact they really aren’t. Mourinho just wants his team to be organized and cautious but his teams do nothing but attack. Watch Inter sometime and you will see a team that likes to attack and that usually gets a lot of chances in a game. United only get a lot of chances against minnows, and then only at home. We keep the ball but we do not have fun playing the game. We waste valuable time making nothing more than back passes and playing with extreme caution these days and at a snails pace. This is anti football
October 29th, 2009 at 21:15
@Jay Jay: I’m assuming you feel that our players are technically great? Well for some time they havn’t been able to hold onto the ball, pass it properly, tackle or shoot that well. Maybe some tactics could come in useful. They certainly would have against liverpool!
October 29th, 2009 at 21:26
@Grognard: Mate, you have every right to be pessimistic. I fucking told us to practicall change our whole team after our defeat to Liverpool, and Im personally getting sick of the way we play. Our two games against CSKA and Liverpool were discustingly cowardice, its not how I like it. Im a fighter, my heroes when I was younger were Keane, Smudge(
) and Gary Neville in his prime. And its not only the players like Berbatov, Carrick, Oshea and Scholes who seem like they dont fucking give a shit, its the tactics as well. We seem more afraid to lose than willing to win, and for me that is a loser tactic. Its annoying, and it drives me crazy! 
However, my point was that sometimes people want to hope and believe the best. The bad things come from experience and from just living life.
Thats why we should hope, believe that this team will come good. It may give a false hope of something that is already lost, but you should be allowed to silenty believe that everything is possible in your mind. Hell, Im a United fan! Born and bred, raised like one! Ive learnt many lessons by supporting United, but there is always one thing that stands out. That is that we never give in, we never think its over and We never die! 
You have all right to be pessimstic, but it annoyed me when last week you replied to my comment about everything going right by practicaly saying I was living in a fantasy world and should open my fucking eyes. If I wanna be optimistic, let me be. If some other guy, take Dan in this instance, thinks Foster is going to become a great goalkeeper, and is so stubborn about it, let it be. Its not your valid right to tell everybody their opinion is wrong just because its different to yours. I personally think Ballack is a wank, you like him. I love Andy, and think he is gonna be a top class player. If I believe so, let me believe it and dont come with statements that crush my opinion. You may not notice it, but when you come out strongly towards another persons opinion you may crush his confidence. Opinions are what make a person, crush their opinion and you crush them. Think about that before you make a comment which may crush everyones belief…
October 29th, 2009 at 21:34
Wow! I come to what seems to be a series of interminably tedious verbal fisticuffs. As it is I’m in a ridiculously bad mood because some cunt thought it would be cool to break my 2 month old car window into smithereens.
All for nothing really. All he must have seen is a stray aux cable sticking from my car’s music system and thought there might be a GPS/ipod in it. That’s $500 down the drain in repairs. 
I hope you all have managed to end your squabbles and move on, because right now I can’t give two shits about your personal problems. Sorry, if I come across as rude, but give me time before I return to my senses.
October 29th, 2009 at 21:39
@Red Ranter: Its arite mate, thats fucked! Dunno exactly how insurance works, but have you got it?
October 29th, 2009 at 21:42
@Footy4Eddy: I do. Despite the insurance I have to blow $500. The insurance will cover costs over and above $500. Damages include scratches to my door (it’s a shiny new black car, so it’s worse), an attempt to pry something open adjacent to my window, and small (but visible) tears on my leather seat due to the glass.
October 29th, 2009 at 21:46
@Grognard: If Huntelaar is world class ,then Foster is world’s best….
October 29th, 2009 at 21:50
@owen: Erm… oh kaay(?!)
October 29th, 2009 at 21:54
@Red Ranter: That sucks man. But sounds like a nice car, congrats on that at least. Must be getting a lot of ladies?
eh? eh? 
October 29th, 2009 at 21:56
@owen: There are many better strikers than Hunterlaar. But there are also many better keepers than Foster. There are also many worse strikers than Huntelaar. And there are worse keepers than Foster.
October 29th, 2009 at 22:27
o@Red Ranter: That happened to my brother last year. Thats a shit load of money you have to pay out…
October 29th, 2009 at 22:56
@Red Ranter:
A shiny black car?
Well, no wonder!
http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=40783
October 29th, 2009 at 23:21
@NicoQB: We’re not talking about road accidents here. More like vandalism.
October 29th, 2009 at 23:38
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GNgwKpxVYo&feature=sub
Fergie, Fergie sign him up!
October 30th, 2009 at 5:20
@Footy4Eddy: Listen mate, you have every right to feel and act the way you want but please remember that on a rant site people will have differing opinions and that will quite often cause one to call the other one wrong without trying to make it a personal indictment. I have to be honest and say that your optimism is not something I share but know this, even if I disagree with it, I fully respect it and that’s the key point to all of this. I disagree with many on this site and most of them I have nothing but respect for. There are a select few who I will not name that are hopeless and annoying but even them, I like but I honestly have a harder time respecting. Still, you reap what you sew and so if I want to be liked, it is important for me to feel the same about others or I should get off the blog. Lately I a have been called flawed, full of myself and that I consider myself above everyone else. This is so not true. But am I too apologize if I am intelligent and if I do know myself. Quite often I have been wrongfully accused of being something I am not on this site simply because I have the courage of my convictions and because I know my subject matter. So if I disagree with you on something, it’s because I feel I know a lot about it. If you do not hear a peep from me, it’s because I do not feel qualified to speak on the topic. So I am very cool with you mate and I have much respect for you always (provided you don’t go on another drunk rant like a couple of weeks ago.
). Life and experience has taught me much and so I try often to offer some of my accumulated wisdom. I’m glad there are those like you who appreciate and respect that. 
And Ballack is a wank…..but he is my wank.
October 30th, 2009 at 5:23
@Red Ranter: Don’t you have insurance mate? That kind of thing should be covered. I had a similar thing happen four year ago to me and I got the window replaced and 75% of the value of my stereo system (had to show them the receipt).
October 30th, 2009 at 5:25
@Red Ranter: Jeez mate, I’d look around for a better insurance company. It should be no more than a 15% or 20% deductible no matter what the price is over $500.00.
October 30th, 2009 at 5:25
@owen: Yah whatever.
October 30th, 2009 at 5:28
@Footy4Eddy: Whose a worse keeper than Foster? I’ve even begrudgingly elevated Almunia above him recently, and I never thought anybody could be worse than him.
October 30th, 2009 at 5:29
@Red Ranter: Vandalism is covered by your insurance too mate, or at least it better be.
October 30th, 2009 at 5:31
@Footy4Eddy: I’m just upset that Foster once again screwed up and when that was an easy stop. That’s what happens when you dilly dally around too much. It forces teams to bring in the 12th man.
October 30th, 2009 at 6:11
@Grognard: Well the company would pay anything over $500. The remaining would be covered by me.
October 30th, 2009 at 6:57
@Red Ranter: That’s a crappy insurance company mate. But then again it is the US so that really shouldn’t surprise me. That’s a tough break mate. If it was me I’d be kicking asses and taking names. I can imagine how you feel.
October 30th, 2009 at 7:31
New post up, and it has some amusing stuff from Ferguson.
October 30th, 2009 at 7:31
We forget to mention that the players we love are the most jacks of all trades.Can anyone tell me whether Rooney is a striker,or just a player on the pitch?
October 30th, 2009 at 7:33
@donibrasco: Another Rooney post from you! What’s up with you and Rooney?