Apr 20
Blackburn 1-1 Man Utd: Another Tevez Late Goal
Yes, it’s amazing how many important and late goals Carlos Tevez has got us this season. Yesterday was another such occasion where he chipped in with a crucial late goal that still keeps United in control of their own destiny.
The match report won’t be too comprehensive here but I’ll touch up on the main points.
What was surprising here, with all talk about United’s squad depth, was the way some of the players looked knackered. I don’t know whether it’s because of the way Blackburn took the game during the opening exchanges or if it was because they generally kicked us all over the park, or closed us down as the politically correct line would go.
Ronaldo who usually does show a lot of desire, even in games where he’s subdued, looked strangely uninterested except for the last 15 minutes — by which time every player seemed to come to life. Till then I can’t think of any player, save for Evra, and to some extent in the early stages, Tevez, who really gave a shit.
Now I am not accusing the players for slacking off. The problem with a bad performance with a full strength side prior to a Champions’ League tie against an opposition like Barcelona is that it exposes the flaws in the team that you really don’t want to reveal to your opponent. It could be viewed another way too — we could bounce back as the squad will be motivated, or that Anderson, Hargreaves, Rooney and EVDS will be fit for this encounter. See it as what you want, but Barcelona would be certainly interested.
That said, yesterday was a day where we needed someone to come on and change things up in central midfield in the second half — something we managed in previous games. Anderson and Hargreaves were sorely missed because their energy and bite would have perfectly complemented Michael Carrick’s passing range.
The first goal from Santa Cruz was due to something that has been rare this season: a defensive blunder. A misjudgment of a throw-in by Ferdinand, let Roque through to score his 20th of the season.
But then, we did little to prove that it was undeserved for Blackburn. Mark Hughes deployed Santa Cruz on the right to close down Evra and Giggs and Ronaldo and Nani or whoever chose to play there and he did a good job of it. It was the only toward the end where desperation sunk in and Rovers were pummelled. Anyway here’s a brief lowdown on some of the performances.
Scholes and Giggs were poor yesterday; Scholes more anonymous than Giggsy. Although, it was funny that it was Scholesy’s header that was turned in by Tevez. Nani’s arrival showed what we were missing on the left wing. Maybe Scholes might get more space against the less physical Barcelona, but I would rather start Nani in future. Giggs should be used to come on towards the end to use his experience. At the moment, we need people with energy and pace to avoid a repeat of last season, and hence I say it once again: Anderson, Hargreaves and Nani can provide us with that.
Rooney tried his best despite a knock to his hip but he was thwarted by Brad Friedel who somehow saves his best for games like these. Tevez showed all energy early on but faded out later on only to nick a goal late on. Carrick tried to be as positive as he could and he didn’t do too badly. But again, he usually does better when he’s afforded enough space. But he, and everyone in front of him, was closed out quite well. So it really didn’t make things too easy for him.
Tommy K looked uncertain with the crosses that were pumped in and his kicking still remains dodgy.
Nani and Evra were bright spots today, though. The left back bombed forward but lacked support and the winger gave the team the impetus it so badly needed. And his corners kicks were much better than Giggsy’s were, which eventually led to the goal.
So a draw leaves us needing to draw Chelsea and win at either of Wigan or West Ham to retain the title. So it’s all not so bad as it might seem. What we need to concentrate now on is Barcelona. Get in a decent performance at Camp Nou, and we can rest easy and think about Chelsea.
EDIT: Oh, and the referee was a right twat.
Related items from Red Rants:- Blackburn v Manchester United - Preview
- Rooney Out For A Month
- United Stroll Past Kyiv; They Also Hit Four Goals
- Manchester United Fixtures for the 07/08 Season
- Manchester United v Aston Villa Preview - Tougher than it looks
Tags: Match Reports
April 20th, 2008 at 12:53
what? there is a referee during the match? now that surprises me.
April 20th, 2008 at 13:08
Our midfielders should be all right because there has been rotated but my concern
is Rooney and Ronaldo, particularly the later, as they have played a lot of
football this year and they both looked knackered yesterday.
April 20th, 2008 at 13:16
I agree totally on the Hargreaves/Anderson/Nani comments RR. I think it would be a mistake to try and outpass Barca (and Arsenal for that matter). Play Carrick deep, flanked by Anderson and Hargreaves. These two can act as harriers to break up Barca’ rythem and hopefully give Carrick the time and space to pick up the pieces and pass at his leisure. Playing Scholes in there radically changes the nature of the formation. He lacks the legs to get up and down the field like Anderson/Hargreaves or the defensive ability of Carrick.
There are times and places where he can be played in that formation but I wouldn’t say Wednesday night is one of them (or Stamford Bridge). I would also play Nani as Barca’s full backs have looked less than convincing at times. It would be good to have two players that can really run at them and try and expose their fragility. To be honest though I would be genuinly surprised if Scholes and Giggs were both dropped.
On the game itself I would say it was not a case of physical fatigue, rather it was the natural nerves that come late in a championship challenge. I also think there may have been half an eye on Barca from some of the players. Regardless the main objective for some time has been to reach the Chelsea game with a three point buffer and that has been achieved, albeit with some difficulty
April 20th, 2008 at 14:22
Isint Santa Cruz the very player Grogy is screaming his heads for! Very good No. 9 who can score 8/10 times (as opposed to our Rooney’s 2/10!!!). He might be happy to be behind Rooney and Tevez (coz I cannot drop Tevez from the first team after his performances at the most crucial times so many times this year) and as United play 4 competitions, he will get 20-30 starts surely.
How lucky Blackburn have been. He just cost them 3.5m!!! How much did Saha cost us
April 20th, 2008 at 14:34
Whenever Anderson has not played for United they seem to lack energy in the middle of the park. Carrick and Scholes are fine passers of the ball but they’re both slow tempo, and can’t do the job Anderson or Hargreaves do in closing down and harrying the opposition (Anderson and Hargreaves are pretty good passers themselves).
My real concern is the poor form of Rooney in front of goal, and the continuing catalogue of missed chances. He failed to convert any of 3 one-on-ones with the keeper against Liverpool; he did the same against Arsenal; and with time running out with a one-on-one against Brad Friedel he again failed to convert. That could have been very costly but for Tevez’ late intervention.
So that’s about one goal from about 7 one-on-ones with the keeper in 3 out of the past 4 games. Even Capello this week has highlighted that this is a real problem. There’s a helluva lot of room for improvement. I’m hoping that if Rooney gets similar chances against Barcelona and Chelsea, that he scuffs one which doesn’t go where he intends it, it deceives the keeper and by fluke ends up in the back of the net.
A change of luck for Rooney could mean the difference between United winning “the double” or ending up empty-handed. You wonder if Ronaldo and Tevez can keep bailing United out? Rooney needs to do better.
Watch SAF buy a top draw striker in the summer. United should pay whatever it takes to secure Berbatov, and play Rooney primarliy as a second striker. Berbatov is super cool in front of goal and has an excellent first touch. Those are two ingredients that you find in all the really outstanding goal scorers from Jimmy Greaves (1960s) to Paolo Rossi (1980s) to the Brazilain Ronaldo in his prime. But I don’t see Spurs selling Berbatov to an EPL side. If Berbatov is going, I can more see Spurs pushing him in the direction of AC Milan, or Real Madrid than to United or Chelsea.
With an outstanding goal-scorer in addition to Cristiano Ronaldo, this United team has the potential to be the best that United has ever produced, and dominate Europe and the EPL for some years to come. The dream of dominating Europe is what keeps SAF motivated. It’s the one thing he’s failed to do. Get a class striker in the summer, and that dream could yet be realised.
April 20th, 2008 at 14:37
I think united this season could have been way better and higher if our form players played more.Nani could actually earn selection just because of his corners.Does anyone know how many goals weve scored because of them?and how many assists he has? everton,sunderland(sahas winner),spurs,blackburn are the ones i remember but he really can take them well.He is great defensively also,something giggs doesnt do.He wins the ball so many times and is aggressive in his search for the ball.He almost set up rooney aswell.He looks a different player to the one that joined.Against barca if giggs and scholes play we probably will lose.The pace of messi,henry,eto,dos santos,bojan will be too much for the old legs.Nani,anderson will be much more useful as the press far more.I think next season will be easier than this one as nani and anderson will be automatic starters.
April 20th, 2008 at 15:00
Against Barcelona, I would definitely start with Anderson and Hargreaves, if fit, with Scholes on the Bench. I would probably also start with Giggs rather that Nani. I would have Nani and Tevez on the bench, to be brought on early in the second half, if needed.
Explanations?
- Anderson and Hargreaves have energy and pace. United need to wrest control of the game in the middle of the park. These two will help United do just that. Carrick can keep the ball moving with neat passing triangle. If United are well in front and in control, Scholes could be brought on for the last 20 minutes to help retain possession with effective, simple passing.
- Giggs rather than Nani to begin with, because United will need to be calm and controlled early in the game. Giggs’ experience will help United do that. Nani can be held back for the first 50 to 60 minutes and then brought on to run at a tiring defence to maximum effect as United up the tempo.
- Tevez on the bench to begin with, because United need the extra man in midfield. Control the midfield, and United will go a long way to controlling the match.
Strategy?
United must go all out for a win. A 0-0 draw is bad result, because over 90 minutes you’d have to fancy Barcelona to score at Old Trafford. United need to score at least twice at the Nou Camp. Do that, and they’ll be half-way to Moscow by 10.00 pm on Wednesday night.
Prediction?
Barcelona 1 Man Utd 1.
Tie on a knife-edge for the return at Old Trafford. United likely to have some niggles and knocks for the second leg, because they have the little matter of a EPL title shoot-out with Chelsea at high noon on Saturday.
So United will have to play 3 of their toughest games of the season in just six days and travel to Spain, London and Manchester in that time. Exciting times.
April 20th, 2008 at 15:37
I found it strange how knackered they were, even though they probably had the longest break all season. Hopefully all guns blazing come wednesday. And did anybody else just know that Rooney wasn’t going to score the one on one yesterday?
April 20th, 2008 at 15:46
agree with comment #4. santa cruz has scored 20 goals for blackburn. imagine how many would he have scored if he was at united. he is agreat finisher
April 20th, 2008 at 15:54
I believe santa cruz was so cheap for blackburn because of longstanding injury problems during his time in germany. I do not think we really need another injury prone player.
Still Anderson and Hargreaves should be well rested and injury free for Wednesday which will give us some freshness where we need it most. Ronaldo will be fired up for Barcelona no doubt and this is the time we need him to raise his game and expose Barcelona’s defensive frailties.
I believe we’ll use a similar strategy to the first leg at Lyon. Play it safe, crowd the midfield, stick nani and tevez on the bench, and if we go a goal done put them both on in the last half hour to try and snatch an equaliser.
April 20th, 2008 at 16:40
before the striker argument comes up again, i would like to quote some stats about berbatov( one of the strikers fans want and dont care how much we pay for)
last season
league
apps 33
goals 12
domestic cup
apps 8
goals 4
uefa cup
apps 8
goals 7
total
49 apps
23 goals
seems great for your first season, basically 2:1 games to goal ratio
this season:
he’s had more or less exactly the same season, he’s scored more in the premier league, less in cup competitions,
total:
49 apps
23 goals
so is this the type of stiker you want(im not saying he has a bad record, this is more like an experiment)?
April 20th, 2008 at 16:49
Dan: I would say yes. I consider a 1 in 2 goal ratio good enough and he has shown he can perform in big games, is very creative and can lead the line well. He is also one of the few names mentioned with PL experience.
Conversely he is not exactly young, would be expensive and has a somewhat questionable attitude at times.
On balance, although not my absolute first choice, I would be happy if we got him.
April 20th, 2008 at 17:13
Hey all. This is my first post. I would like to say congrats to all who contribute to making this a great site for united supporters worldwide.
[JB] I have one major reservation as regards getting Berba. In the few games I have watched him play, he functions much like a second striker, a position which allows him to use his sublime first touches to split defenses and create chances for Robbie Keane and others. I would not say he is an ‘in-the-box’ player which is what the team really needs. I can picture him playing in the hole and slicing the opposing defense open with his first touch/pass, but who is going to be on the end of the through ball? Rooney or Tevez. Given that speed is not his greatest attribute, I don’t see him keeping up with Nani, Ronaldo and Rooney on a quick counter attack- meaning he’ll more often than not be playing the final ball rather than receiving it. How does this solve our lack of ruthlessness in front of goal?
April 20th, 2008 at 17:36
Rooney has got to be one of the worst finshers i have ever seen..he has a million miles to go before he can be considered a world class striker..
April 20th, 2008 at 17:39
what are the chances of signing man city players? im watching their match right now, and im quite impressed with bejani and williamson. what jya guys think it?
interesting stuff on berbatov.
April 20th, 2008 at 18:09
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-JAxzU9GQM
April 20th, 2008 at 19:25
JB Mate u are correct with Berba`s attitude . A lot of Hardcore footie fans claim that he only participates fully when they are on the winning side , Doesn’t drop back and defend etc .
Well on the attacking front i would say he would be AWESOME
Nothing more …
Well JB even i too think we wont start with Anderson Hargo Carrick all 3 matches . However if we do win in Barca we will go for the kill in Chelski thats for sure !
Barca defense is pathetic and the fouls they commit is horrendous . Yest against Espanyol they had 6 yellow cards .
I just read a stats that Barcelona have 61 yellow cards in 33 League matches .. Woah ! I think this will major factor taken into account !
April 20th, 2008 at 19:49
I like Berbatove the offensive threat but I hate Berbatov questionable work ethic and attitude. From an offensive point of view there is a lot of genius like Cantona in him. His imagination, first touch and finesse is second to none in the BPL. But he doesn’t track back and he is a selfish player only looking out for personal glory. Yes he would love to play for us and he might try very hard, but the first game you sit him down to give Tevez a start he will start crying. I cannot dislike the fact that a player desires to play every game, but Berbatov is not a team player and he is not a fan of any kind of rotation or rest policy. I personally think he would be a malcontent by Christmas.
Starting Rooney up front alone with 5 midfielders with Hargo Carrick and Anderson in the middle would be ideal against Barca and Chelsea. I would hold off playing Scholes until Wigan and then of course Fergie has made the fundamental error of promising to start him in the Champions League final. That could have dire consequences for us, and all for sentimental reasons. I don’t care if he missed the 999 final. His team won, that should be good enough. To risk a loss or slower tempo game for the sake of sentiment could backfire in our faces should we be fortunate enough to get by Barcelona. What do many of you think about Fergie’s decision to play Scholes in that game should we get there?
As for Santa Cruz; Trust me, he is not good enough to be a United player. He is Blackburn class and that is all. A decent striker but not United caliber. If he couldn’t make the grade at Bayern (when healthy) then he can’t make United. We need to buy a big name if only to keep a name like Huntelaar out of the grasp of Chelsea, Liverpool or Arsenal. I also think Spurs are about to spend big and become a contender. It would totally gut me to see the Dutchman play for any of those teams, especially Chelsea.
April 20th, 2008 at 19:58
Rick: When you watch Berba he seems to get very exasperated with his team mates. There are times when he is making runs or hitting passes and the rest of the Spurs players are just not as quick of thought or on the same wavelength as him. I know what you mean about his attitude, you wouldn’t exactly want him in the trenches with you but if he was with us he would at least be on the winning side fairly often
If for no other reason it would be nice to have him here to watch his first touch at work! Still the attitude is the big question.
HMM: Welcome to the blog! Not sure if you have been following any of the debates about new strikers but my position on it has been at odds with many of the other contributors. I don’t believe we need a ruthless finisher/18 yard box striker or whatever you want to call them. I think we need a striker who first and foremost is a good all round player, comfortable at leading the line and a good foil to Rooney. Goal scoring is a secondary priority in my eyes. I feel if you sort out the other things then the goals will come naturally.
Personally I’m concerned that there is a danger that a ruthless finisher causes you too funnel too much of your attacking play through him making the team too predictable.
On his position it’s a very good point you raise. There are times when he is used as the point man at Spurs, however lately he seems to have dropped into more of a support role. He is probably flexible enough, with the necessary attributes, to play either role to good effect. On his speed, yes he isn’t as fast as Rooney/Ronaldo/Nani, but then that is nothing to be ashamed about
He can shift himself at a reasonable speed, but I think it is easy to look at his rather languid style and think of him as slow.
Still as I said he wouldn’t be my first choice but I think he has enough going for him to make him a worthwhile purchase.
April 20th, 2008 at 20:02
Grognard; Re: Scholes, I was thinking about it and, well look how well he played against Liverpool the last time. He controlled the game against them and so although Fergie was stupid to promise him a place in the final, if we play Liverpool I think it wouldn’t be that much of a problem. And I agree about Santa Cruz, one good season proves nothing, just look at Benni McCarthy, he had one great season at Blackburn and everyone was saying Jose made a mistake by not taking him from Porto to Chelsea, now look at him. And about Berbatov; No, I don’t want him anywhere near us. I don’t care how good he is, he is not a goalscorer and he is lazy, I don’t like him at all, I didn’t even want him last season when he was a so-called ‘revelation’.
Dan; Grognard says they are not good enough finishers, which is true. And although they track back, which Grognard has already said is a great attribute for a striker to have, we need someone who will put the ball in the net as well.
April 20th, 2008 at 20:16
Hmm well that is true. But that is because it leaves no-one in the box once we break away and so that is quite frustrating, if we had Rooney or Tevez playing with another striker who doesn’t track back as much then it would be a better mix because at least one striker would be left up there.
JB; I never knew that you think we don’t need a fox in the box striker, probably because you haven’t really entered into the striker debate much recently, but who would you want as your first choice then if it is not Berbatov?
April 20th, 2008 at 20:19
Conor: On Cruz, while he may not be good enough to be a United starter week in week out, the extra pair of legs up front wouldn’t have gone amiss, especially for just £3.5m.
On the striker issue my first choices would be Benzema and then Eto’o. Unfortunately the noises from Lyon suggest that, best case scenario, Benzema is on the back burner for another year. As for Eto’o I had hoped the strife at Barca might force an opening for us. However the recent reports I have heard suggest that Eto’o is relatively safe regardless. Certainly if Henry, Ronaldinho and Deco all bite the dust the chances of get him are virtually nil.
Other than that there is no one really high profile (bar Berbatov) who I think fits what we are looking for. At that point I would be happy enough to get a mid range player in to act as back up.
April 20th, 2008 at 20:28
WoW!Interesting comments posted regarding Berbatov and Strikers
Well there are 2 things in offense which i find unique in Berbatov , one is his Lazy elegant Flicks and the other is his heading skills .. These 2 surely overpower his lack of extra pace and his defending skills . Well attitude is something we all Utd fans look for and i guess we find it less in him
. Having said that unless berbatov wants to leave i find no reason why Levy would want to sell him!
Conor mate , my choices would be :
Benzema ,Berbatov ,Mario Gomez ,Huntelaar ,Steven Fletcher , Luis Fabiano etc .
I think Benzema Super Mario and Steven Fletcher would take us to a whole new level
April 20th, 2008 at 20:30
JB; Yes well for £3.5m he would have been a great buy I’m sure, but now I’d think his price will have doubled at least, and he wouldn’t represent good value for money. Thats where Mark Hughes’ sense of adventure has paid off during his short career as manager of Blackburn; Bentley, Samba, Warnock, Santa Cruz and McCarthy were all risks but all paid off. I’m not saying they are United quality but what I mean is it shows he has a good eye for a bargain. And yeah I think the probability of getting either Benzema or Eto’o this summer is very low.
Rick; His heading ability isn’t that great! Last season he missed countless headers and only scored 2 headed goals, can’t remember where I read those stats but it did surprise me for someone of his height. And just out of curiosity would you be able to tell me about Steven Fletcher because I know hardly anything about him other than the fact Real Madrid want him.
April 20th, 2008 at 20:45
real also wanted dong
even though i dont think we need a striker, if we were to get one, my first(and only) choice would be david villa, to bad he wants to go to the arse.
April 20th, 2008 at 20:46
JB; At the risk of getting fire from you I have to disagree on what kind of striker you think we need. The one you define as a player that is good leading the line and is a perfect foil for Rooney we already have. It’s Tevez. What we need is what Conor correctly referred to as a “fox in the box” (Jose says; Conor…very nice.). A team lacking in multi-dimensional play would suffer from the problem of funneling the ball into a striker. Fortunately, we have players like Ronaldo, Nani and Rooney that are very creative and original in their own way and who can run at defenders and turn them inside out. We would not be so predictable. There are ties like yesterday where we needed the goal poacher who would set up shop inside the box, hold up the ball or head in a cross. When Tevez decided to move in, look what happened. We have become to conditioned to playing without a true striker and that leaves us susceptible to teams that defend with ten men behind the ball.
It’s very evident that we need that tall Luca Toni like presence in the box. We seem to play our free flowing attractive football against good teams while against mediocre teams we struggle a bit (especially on the road) because of their physicality and defense at all cost style. When we had RVN or before then when we had Yorke and Cole or even Hughes, we could break those teams down easier especially with Beckham or Giggs crosses, while struggling a bit more against the good clubs. Now a true striker would give us the needed balance and multiple options to adapt on the fly and not get caught flat footed like we were yesterday, especially in the first half. It would give us the option to play a continental style with dribbling and short interplay, play the liong ball and play the wide crossing British style. All avenues are covered.
I really find it hard to understand why many out there can not see this obvious strategic advantage as well as the obvious need for a true goal scorer. Lets not blame RVN for not getting enough trophies. We did win the BPL with him as well as an FA Cup and League Cup. Our squad was simply not as flexible, talented and deep as it is now. An RVN today would make us virtually unbeatable and give us a true triple threat up front.
April 20th, 2008 at 20:57
Dan; Real wanted Dong?! I never new that! Well as Athletic Bilbao are currently beating Valencia the chances of getting Villa are getting bigger by the minute
They are only 2 points away from the relegation zone so he will definitely move. And since Liverpool probably won’t be able to stump up the cash to get him because of behind the scenes problems and Arsene Wenger just doesn’t like buying established players, we have a good chance of getting him don’t you think? It’s a 3 way tug of war between Real, Chelsea and us, and if we win the Champions League that would always help 
And JB; I understand your apprehension regarding buying another RVN because we may just funnel the ball straight to him like we did with RVN, I actually did think that for a while too, but don’t you think our team has evolved a lot since then? If we ever got a striker such as Huntelaar I still think that our other players would interchange and play just like they do now, just with someone to finish it off.
April 20th, 2008 at 21:01
One thing I will say in Berbatov’s defense is that before Cantona came to United he was a washout and a malcontent in both France and at Leeds. More often than not, Fergie has a way of bringing out the best in trouble makers but he also tires of them if they keep that attitude up. Berbatov is not my first choice but failing to get Huntelaar or Gomez, I would certainly be happy with his presence because he truly is a super talent and actually fits the criteria that JB prefers without lacking the skills to be a goal poacher too. I don’t think we have a hope regarding Villa or Benzema. Fabiano and Fletcher I don’t rank as high.
I would be willing to take a chance on Lukas Podolski or Jan Schlaudraff both of Bayern Munich. Podolski is a super young talent that still needs maturing and experience to reach his potential. He is fine for the National team but he can’t get a regualr place for Bayern because of Toni and Klose. He has expressed a wish to leave and I think he would be just the kind of striker that can play multiple styles as well as even the wing. He has a lethal left foot and his heading has really improved. Under the guidance of Fergie I think he could become our Adebayor. Schlaudraff is also very talent and is capable of playing strike, wing or AMF. He has a lot of promise but is in an unfortunate situation at Bayern. He too has asked to leave. He would be an ideal 3rd striker where Poldi would be an ideal co striker with Rooney or Tevez.
April 20th, 2008 at 21:04
Well i watch the replay of Hibs matches just for him
.
Highly talented boy, left footed, big, strong and decent pace . His off the ball work and his contribution to defense immense . Great maturity at the age of 20 and scores goals in all manners !
April 20th, 2008 at 21:08
well sorry i should say ‘linked’ to madrid.
April 20th, 2008 at 21:11
Dan: In defence of Fletcher, at least he is not liekly to be a purchase driven by Madrid’s markeing department! I can’t see them looking to expand their merchandising into Scotland
Grognard: Look at the history of SAF’s title winning teams. How many RVN/Huntelaar “fox in the box” style strikers have there been in the title winning teams? Cole was never particuarly clinical, Yorke was a link man and Hughes was a scorer of great goals rather than a great goalscorer. Anyway I’ve had the argument previously several times and my view is the striker we need is a better (and fit) version of Saha.
At any rate what are we all still arguing over a striker for? It will leave us with nothing to talk about after the end of the season
April 20th, 2008 at 21:11
Rick; Sounds like a good player then. But what is his goal scoring ratio like? And is good enough to start for us now?
Grognard; I think we actually have quite a good chance of signing Villa, a better chance than of signing Berbatov. And Podolski probably would represent good value for money but he is nothing like Adebayor so why do you make that comparison? And was it not you who said as Klinsmann is a big fan of his he might just stay for another year to see how things work out?
Dan; Hmmm you’re right, “Dong, who was also linked with Real Madrid and Inter Milan, emerged as the cream of a crop of youngsters sent by China’s top clubs to England for trials in August.” but since he can’t even get into our reserves it shows everyone was just planning on using him as a marketing tool.
April 20th, 2008 at 21:19
Conor: My arguement is that I would rather have a better player than a better goal scorer. I don’t buy into this argument that Rooney/Huntelaar/Ronaldo/Nani necessarily equals more goals than Rooney/Saha or Tevez/Ronaldo/Nani. Hell it’s not even as if the strikers I’m suggesting couldn’t hit a barn door! I would just rather trade in a superior goal ratio for other attributes.
And yes the team has involved. But the evolution is not only due to player’s personnal development but to the types of guys we had in the team. One of the most succesful eras in the clubs history had Andy Cole leading the line and he wasn’t exactly a fox in the box.
April 20th, 2008 at 21:26
Andy Cole wasn’t exactly a fox in the box? Second top goal scorer over the years in the Premiership suggests otherwise. And your point makes sense, I just see Gomez as a better player than Berbatov, all things taken into account.
April 20th, 2008 at 21:27
JB; We don’t need a better player. We have plenty of them. We do need a player who makes goal scoring a more simplified discipline though.
Conor; I wasn’t comparing Podolski with Adebayor in skill set and style of play. Only in the fact that he would be a developmental project for Fergie like Adebayor was for Wenger. They are totally different types of strikers, that’s for sure. Actualy, a better comparison now that i think of it would be Van Persie. And he was a project to.
April 20th, 2008 at 21:29
JB; I agree with you about there being too much talk about prospective striker signings. But, I think that just strengthens my point that everyone believes we definitely need a striker or two to make the club better, no matter what style of striker it is.
April 20th, 2008 at 21:42
Ok, I’ve got a question for everyone who wants a “fox in the box” type of player. Why?
I understand that we need another striker, but why are so many people in favour of a Huntelaar or Toni at Old Trafford? I’m sure they are great players who would get many goals for us, but part of their play neccessarily involves waiting on the offside line rather than being involved with our complex buildup play. Ever since the effects of Ruud’s departure were made so brilliantly obvious I’ve thought that an orthodox striker is just an extra man who isn’t going to be running out of midfield. Clearly ruud is a legend, but we are a better team without him. There are players who can bring an athletic and dynamic apporach to the forward situation, players who can get involved but aren’t going to be in the centrecircle for half the game like Rooney and Tevez. Admittedly I am thinking mostly of Aguero, who I have championed a few times over here.
But back to my original question. Why do those of you who think we do think that we need another Ruud? How many games a season would this player get? Where would this leave Rooney and Tevez?
April 20th, 2008 at 21:50
Conor: Cole was definitely not a fox in the box. In his United career he never hit the mythical 20 goal mark in the league, seemingly the key point for predators. He was never particularly clinical for us, although he wasn’t as bad in that respect as some liked to make him out to be at the time. We got a goal scorer from Newcastle and turned him into a good all rounder.
Grognard: I think everyone bar Dan thinks we need a new striker
To be honest I would be happy enough to get anyone half decent in over the summer.
April 20th, 2008 at 22:14
I think this whole ’striker’ situation is a result of Rooney having a very below-par season (in terms of goals). Honestly, I think he’s been just plain unlucky the last couple of games..he’s been doing almost everything right, but the ball just doesn’t go in, or the goalkeepers just love stopping his shots. If you look at this season, it’s been a combination of Ronnie having almost everything go his way, and Rooney quite the opposite. Imagine next season if this situation reverses, would we then be asking Fergie to sign a winger?
April 20th, 2008 at 22:26
Michael; United are not going to pay the minimum 40 to 50 Mil that it’s going to cost to get Aguero. Secondly you ask why we need a striker? You answered the question yourself as well, read the numerous posts I have written to answer your question. “To get many goals for us”. To many fans like yourself get easily seduced by beautiful football but you quite often forget that the object of the game is to score goals. The easier the better. My all time favorite goal scorer was Gerd Mueller. I cannot recall him ever scoring a really beautiful goal but he scored a goal a game. The best comparison to his style of play today is Pipo Inzaghi of Milan. Just a great player at poaching goals and beating the off side trap. When teams put ten defenders behind the ball, we need a true striker. The skill and finesse players have a hard time breaking through that kind of setup.
As for how many games a player like Ruud would get? As many as possible. Tevez would get enough starts spelling guys off when they need rest but he is best utilized late in games when teams are tired because of his terrier like style of play which is suited for short spurts as opposed to 90 minutes. He could become another Solksjaer.
JB; At this point I would settle for Peter Crouch or Dirk Kuyt because i’m desperate for some forward depth. Hang on! What the Hell am I saying? Strike that last comment.
April 20th, 2008 at 22:33
I don’t know I have heard worse ideas in my time than Crouch! You can strike Kuyt all day long though
April 20th, 2008 at 23:45
Fergie
“When I leave there has to be continuity and we have built towards that with a squad that can stay together for a long time.
“Apart from Gary Neville, Paul Scholes and Ryan Giggs the ages of this squad are good.
“That gives us stability and these players gather the experience to be replacing the Giggsys and Scholesys in the future.
http://www.tribalfootball.com/article.php?id=88846
Giggs - Nani
Scholes - Ando, Carrick
Neville - ?
This is probably an indication that Fergie is looking at the RB position in the Summer and a future Neville replacement.
April 21st, 2008 at 0:01
The perfect RB except for the price - Daniel Alves.
I can just imagine Alves at Right back and Evra at Left back supporting Ronaldo and Nani and we have already seen how lethal our left wing can be with Evra’s terrorising runs. Even though he’s priced at £25mill I would hate for him to end up at Chelsea and he would fit in well with the Portuguese speaking set up.
http://goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=665901
April 21st, 2008 at 0:43
Holy shit rsg!!! If we manage to land Alves and one of Huntelaar/Villa/Berbatov/Gomez (for around a combined total of £50m) they might as well hand us the Premier League and Champions League trophies for the next five years there and then!! (not forgetting the FA and Carling Cups!)
But seriously, although Alves is an excellent player and is at a good age too (24), I think he might just be one of those mercenaries who might leave again, for R.Madrid presumably, after a couple of years. Also, I do not think that he is that sound defensively, certainly not as much as Evra is on the left flank, and his positional sense also sometimes leaves much to be desired, which may leave us exposed, but then again, he’s Brazilian, so what do you expect!
April 21st, 2008 at 0:49
I think people get a little over seduced by the idea of Alves because of his offensive capabilities however, defensively he is not the greatest as like Alan Hutton he is prone to being caught up field. As we are fine offensively anyway, I am looking more for a quality RB who can maintain our defensive prowess yet be an offensive upgrade to Brown. Tough to do. Lahm would have been perfect but I don’t see him leaving Bayern. A good short term choice until we can find a more permanent choice is Willy Sagnol. He wants out of Bayern and could be bought on the cheap. A tremendous young talent who is also stuck behind Lahm at Munich is Christian Lell. Very good defensively and makes great runs and crosses. Bosingwa I don’t know enough about. I’d also try to go after Beletti at Chelsi because he is getting the royal shaft over there as he is a quality RB. Rafinha at Schalke is also an outstanding RB.
April 21st, 2008 at 2:51
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/sport/football.html?in_article_id=560909&in_page_id=1779
April 21st, 2008 at 3:42
Again caught in the great striker debate!
I am surprised that in so many posts while people have whole heartedly criticized Scholsey and Giggs theres still not one about Rooney’s miss(es) and his behavior in the entire game. This match brought about the difference in quality between Tevez and Rooney! Rooney contrived about every possible way to get himself sent off (while ppl have been mouthing off the ref for not awarding penalties, nobody has said thanks to him to only “yellow card” our super boy for that idiotic challenge from behind that was two footed as well as intentional that warranted a straight red! He was arguing and mouthing off the official all the time and its a miracle he wasnt sent off (remember Mascherano!). It was such a stupid thing to do in such a crunch game. On the other hand Tevez worked tirelessly, and kept trying even when things seemed not going united way and managed to score the leveler. Rooney could well have cost us the league (had the ref been bit more strict he wud have been sent off in the first half itself!)
And to all the people hung-ho about bringing berba/hunter/benzema where is the place in the lineup for such a player? a top class young striker is not going to sit on bench (nor will tevez and rooney). there is no team on earth that has 3 world class young strikers. At most you can have two only. At the age of 22-23 you fight for a place in national side to play in euros and world cups. no way anybody would accept the bench role. so if hunter/berba comes one of rooney/tevez will have to be benched and he’ll leave! and we’ll be back to RvN days! but i dont understand why we should chuck out a succcessful player (tevez - for me he has been outstanding this season, much much better than rooney and has scored so many winners. he merits place in the team ahead of anybody else) and bring in another one (who might or might not be successful).
In the end, If there was an year of experimentation, I think it was this one. Next year will be more settled side so I dont frankly expect major changes in the side. And there should be none in my opinion. If you ask me I think only thing lacking in this side is a world class high-scoiring AMF (unless anderson can prove me wrong, I dont see any goal scoring threat from this position in our team and that is a real worry). And also that we should definitely give chances to some youngsters from the academy/reserves. There is a tradition and history associated with this club and that has to be maintained. That was hallmark of the great Sir Matt, and that was hallmark of the great Sir Alex in the past. If we win the championship this year then definitely lets have some more players from the ranks come in (they cant be so bad. they are at united!) if we dont promote youngsters in the first team then a time will come when we’ll simply have no top younglings want to join our academy. Success is important but should not be at the cost of traditions for that is what this great club is all about!
April 21st, 2008 at 5:30
Jos; Boy I tell you, if it was I writing these very words about Rooney, there would a fatwah out for my head. It seems that people are less tolerant of some and more tolerant of others on this site even if they say the same thing. Still, Jos you bring up a lot of very valid points about the Wayner. He definitely deserved a red card for his moment of stupidity although he was being roughed up throughout the game in the typical Blackburn style. And in the typical Rob Styles fashion, the referee decided to ignore those fouls. Fortunately he saw the better side of prudence and ignored Wayne’s momentary brain drain. I think he knew that the importance of the game would have unleashed Darth Fergie on him.
Wayne is not a poor finisher. He is a streaky finisher. He can go through a spell of 10 games and score 10 goals and most of his clear chances go in. Then he will go 10 games and score 1 goal and every imaginable element of bad luck like posts and the foot of goalkeepers keeps the ball out. And yes there are times where his finishing is careless. Yesterday two of his best chances came after he injured his ribs or side. So in fairness I think we should get off his back for the game. Lets see what he does over two legs against Barca and at the Bridge. Lets never forget the other great things he does for us on the pitch. He is a multi-dimensional player and we are very lucky to have him because he truly is a world class talent.
And as for his lack of discipline on Saturday, he has improved his temperament considerably this year so I am willing to let his tackle and whining slide. The game was so important and he was obviously very psyched up for the match.
You say we should not make any changes for next year. Are you serious? A top of the league club should never stand pat. Our opposition is presently planning to spend big bucks to overtake us next year and in Chelsea’s case, they are only 3 points behind. To feel that we can overcome them, Arsenal and Liverpool next year with the same squad is just far too optimistic and naive. No sir, we must buy and we must buy big. Buy a top line RB, striker and even possibly a couple more midfielders like Veloso and Moutinho. Why not? United’s aim is to be Kings of Europe. Would be kings never take themselves for granted and always think ahead of themselves and into the future. Changes are needed as we still have improving to do.
Your thought regarding tradition and graduating players from the reserves pretty well died at the beginning of the new millennium. Big money and the Bosman rule created a climate in Europe for a free for all in international transfers. Their is big money involved in winning a league and qualifying as well as winning the Champions League. This was not the case even ten years ago and certainly not during the Sir Matt Busby era. If we did team building like that we would be in the same shape as Sunderland and Wigan for God’s sake. Remember that the big clubs also have big tv money as well as incredible money coming in from licensing, especially abroad. The money affords these clubs to think outside the box and thus go for high priced foreign talent. The fact that you can only sign up local talent also ties the hands of United reserves and developmental policy. No, they need to go abroad to sign young players like Ronaldo, Nani and Anderson because that kind of talent lives nowhere around the Manchester area. United have still been much better than the other big three when it comes to finding young UK talent.
Let me end Jos by saying that I am in agreement with you 50%. Rooney and not Tevez is the reason I am demanding and begging United to buy a quality striker. We should take the pressure off of him to be our goal scoring striker. He is a second striker who is much more of a creator and is good for 15 goals in a BPL season when fully healthy. He is not that sniper 20+ goals man that we really need.
April 21st, 2008 at 5:44
I’m not sure how much validity there is in this rumor but I have seen it on several sources. Apparently United are keen on signing Milan holding midfield genius Gennaro Gattuso. He is 30 but he still runs like he is 25 and he is the bulldog and physical presence this team is lacking. We really need a player with some bite to him in the midfield. Add him with Hargreaves in a 4-2-3-1 or 4-2-2-2 and we would be pretty hard to score on and be greater than we already are on the counter.
April 21st, 2008 at 7:20
Hello,
I am a Barcelona fan.
Is Van der sar injured? I didn’t see him in the match, he was not on the bench too. I do agree with most of you that Anderson is your biggest weapon. Will brown start as full back at Nou Camp. He looks like the biggest weakness in your defense. Barcelona can look to exploit that (only if Rijkaard decides to use Iniesta at the front left instead of Henry).
April 21st, 2008 at 7:22
grogs
)
heres another alternative (thanks to my super brain
I say we add just one player and see how everything changes:
The player is Rafael Van der Vaart!
We play a super attacking 4-3-3. Here are the player positions (first teamers and backups)
GK: VDS, foster, Kuzie (or his replacement like Ochoa as I am not too convinced with him)
RB: Neville (he is the captain, will play if fit), Brown, OH to deputise in emergencies
LB: Evra, Silvestre, JOS (pun intended
CBs: Rio, Vidic, Brown, Pique, JOS
Midfield trio: VDV in an AMF role (carrick as cover), duo of anderson/OH/carrick behind him. Sell Fletch as he deserves more first team action than what he gets here. He is good enough for any team outside of Big 4. Scholsey can cover for any of these three in extreme eventualities
Front three: Ron/Roon/Tevez (Nani,Giggs(in that order) as cover for Ronaldo/Tevez, Saha to cover for Roon/Tevez in case of injuries (hehe, how I wish), Manucho/Welbeck/Park to cover for striker injuries)
This squad can very well play any of the other formations as well. I guess this would be pretty strong in Europe especially (with 1 DMF, 1 holding-cum-attacking mid in andy and 1 great AMF in VDV + our new BCL trio at the front!
In the league we should definitely give more chances to players from the youth team.
Basically my philosophy is to have more attacking options (from the midfield) than what we have. I have zero confidence on Anderson/OH/Carrick/Scholes on their ability to provide us any significant number of goals in a season.
April 21st, 2008 at 7:31
Pique/Veloso at RB and gomez as striker
April 21st, 2008 at 7:37
If we get Gattuso, I’ll start supporting Arsenal (ok, I’m only joking, who cares anyway). He’s not a footballer. He’s a destroyer and a joke. I totally hate his style. The only thing he does is bullying the opposition midfielders to get the ball and pass it to Pirlo.
April 21st, 2008 at 7:58
guys + grog….how abt Kanoute or Luis Fabiano? grog, are u english?
April 21st, 2008 at 8:43
Shopping list:
1 tall striker who won’t sulk on the bench
1 right back who is fast and hard, preferably tall too (not too many tall players in the first team for corners)
Keeping a team identity shouldn’t be overlooked, that’s one of the things which make Manchester United great
April 21st, 2008 at 9:01
@Rajan: VDS will be hopefully back for midweek. Noone except him and Fergie knows as of now.
I think based on this season’s performances, we’d rather stick to Brown at RB than get in someone like Alves or Lahm. Not to touch the wage structure and the fact that now its unlikely that a RB will be bought since Brown is being paid as high as a first teamer, what Brown adds to our defence is something different. Physicality. Alves is too far stuck upfield and will get killed in the EPL. Lahm, for me, is too lightweight. We can see Evra getting dwarved and pushed around. We can’t have that happening on both flanks. Brown kicks, pushes, hits and that is really helpful againt physical sides like Bolton.
As far as the striker situation. Im a big Valencia fans and I watch thier games everyweek. This is what i’ve noticed about Villa:
Strengths:
1. Excellent at leading line.
2. Decent at holding up the ball
3. Can come back and is very good at getting involved in the build up play. I guess as far as the discussion i’ve read so far, this seem to be the most important moot point.
4. Has good team ethic and spirit. Even when chips are down, he doesn’t disappear from the match.
5. Devillish Free Kicks
6. Good enough but not explosive pace
7. Most importantly, CLINICAL
Weaknesses
1. Doesn’t head the ball due to his height.
2. WILL NOT sit on the bench. Highly ambitious and like playing matches week in week out.
3. We may have to bid adieu to either Tevez or Rooney to accomodate him
As far as Huntelaar goes, I don’t know why people call him one dimensional. From what I could notice fron the silly broadcasts of Eredivisie on the tele, he is quite good at build up as well. He’s definately not a RVN at that. I’ve been impressed bu his dutch performances as well.
For me the order should be:
Villa, Huntelaar,Berbatov, Benzema… I’ve never seen Gomez play, so I won’t comment.
April 21st, 2008 at 9:07
[Grognard]
I doubt there is a concerted effort by all to put you down, but I think the right choice of words can seduce even the best into nodding in the affirmative, even if someone is clearly talking crap.
Words are such potent weapons. Use them right and you’ll soar.
Sorry for such a generic comment, just felt like writing this pseudo-intellectual tripe.
April 21st, 2008 at 9:33
I am not to sure at Lahm as a RB although he is a right footed left back, but has anyone that watches the German league or followed his career seen him at right back for a continuous period. I remember from the World cup that he played on the left and would cut inside the opposition penalty area because he was naturally right footed and that was his biggest attacking threat. He may not do the same so well on the right and from our LB and RB’s it great to see the width that Evra brings to our play.
April 21st, 2008 at 9:36
I know it’s a theme of the season to critisize Rooney’s finishing (I’ve done it myself countless times, and agree something needs to change in his head/luck) but I think it’s worth mentioning Tevez is a pretty rubbish finisher too. He has indeed got us some late and important goals, but he is wasteful when given an opportunity. Look at Saturday - rooney squared it to him about 5 yards out early in the game and not only did he not put it on target he actually mishit and it went backwards towards the penalty spot. Later, when everyone thought Ronaldo had been fouled (credit to styles for his one good decision of the mathc, wasn’t a pen) the ball trickled through again about 5 yards out and he hit it stragiht at Friedel.
My point is that we lack a clinical finisher. Maybe that’s not a problem though. Put it in perspective - we’re still one of the best teams on Earth, if not the best. I know we should always strive for improvment, but maybe we just don’t want a new forward. Either because fergie has faith in Rooney (and to be honest, I think with an intense summer ofjust him, VDS and Solsjkaer could do it) or because we don’t want a target man. The times we’ve lost this season have been because the whole team wasn’t firing, not just the front men. I just don’t want usto change our whole setup to accomodate someone new.
April 21st, 2008 at 9:37
RR; I never said there was. My comment was a joke due to the fact that I do spark responses against my views, thats all.
April 21st, 2008 at 9:49
Kienu; I’m Canadian but I speak English, I think….
James f; Sounds like you are not a Gattuso fan but I think that would change if he committed his atrocities on our opposition on our behalf. He is the Keane replacement we have always craved. I would love to see him to play for us for a season or two. If I’m correct his wife is Scottish and so playing in the north of England close to Scottish family and roots may actually appeal to him. We need his grit and muscle in the middle. He’s an enforcer and we have to many pretty boys on our team that need a little protection. Players will think twice about messing with our stars much like they did when Keano was out there. And his rough style never kept Milan from playing a more attractive style.
RSG; I watch every Bayern Munich match as well as a lot of Germany matches. Lahm has played the majority of his games this year at RWB because of the acquisition of Marcel Jansen at LWB for Bayern as well as his promotion to that spot for Germany as well. Jansen has had a few injuries this season and that has forced Lahm to play at LWB on occasion and then Lell plays RWB.Lahm is highly dependable and although he is right footed, he is more than decent at crossing with his left as well. And no he doesn’t cut in as much from the right side but his crossing is excellent and his pace and dribbling on the right wing is exceptional. He also marks very well and does not let wingers cross balls in easily.
April 21st, 2008 at 10:03
This is quite funny
http://www.tribalfootball.com/article.php?id=88926
April 21st, 2008 at 13:39
Grognard - Lahm seems like a 2 in 1, the perfect RB who will be able to cover Evra at LB as well if required… and at a much more reasonable price for a fullback as Alves would probably expect crazy wage figures with the attention he’s getting and Evra is yet to sign a contract extension. Lahm should fit in well and feel comfortable having already played alongside Hargreaves but it looks like Bayern Munich and Klinsmann really want to hang on to him.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/sport/football.html?in_article_id=516954&in_page_id=1779
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/09042008/58/bundesliga-lahm-stay-2009.html
April 21st, 2008 at 18:30
rsg; You are right mate. I don’t see Bayern or Klinsy parting with Lahm. Had it not been for Klinsmann taking over at season’s end, I would have given us a 75% chance of getting him thanks to his close friendship with Hargo. But he is very close to Klinsmann and it appears Klinsmann’s plans are to get as many of the national side’s regulars to play for Bayern.
He’s already getting Borowski to move over next season and now the talk is replacing either Lucio or Demichelis with Mertesacker. All these team Germany players on Bayern will make it very difficult to get him as well, they will be in the Champions League next season too.
April 21st, 2008 at 23:04
redrant can you give me a responce, did you hear that clown doyle on the guardian podcast who loves ronaldo so much he continues to snipe at tevez and rooney saying when ronaldo does not score tevez and rooney do not score when it matters, well tevez has scored goals against liverpool at the kop late goals against spurs blackburn got united 17 goals that is 5 pts out of those games, rooney gives united the spark upfront and nani has delieverd so many crosses and scored vital goals.