Jun 20
Breaking down the United-Tevez-Kia tug of war
So it has come to pass. Manchester United have announced that Carlos Tevez has decided to reject United’s offer to make his loan move permanent. Here’s the statement:
Following contact received from Carlos Tevez’s advisors last night, in advance of the deadline the Club set for concluding negotiations, Manchester United announces that Carlos will not be signing a new contract with the Club. The Club agreed to pay the option price of £25.5m and offered Carlos a five-year contract which would have made him one of its highest paid players. Disappointingly however, his advisors informed the Club that, despite the success he has enjoyed during one of the Club’s most successful periods, he does not wish to continue playing for Manchester United. The Club would like to thank Carlos for his services over the last two seasons and wishes him good luck for the future.
As drab as official statements usually go, it does confirm the word going around that United did indeed offer the option price of £25.5m for Tevez. It confirms that our option price was £25.5m. That price, since it was known by the club for a while now, was clearly excessive in my opinion — which is why David Gill was perhaps hoping, over time, to haggle with Kia Joorabchian to bring his price down.
Now, there is a valid case to be made about the treatment meted out by the club towards Tevez. But, whilst Tevez gave everything he could on the pitch, his attitude off it needed to be questioned. I understood his frustration at being marginalised at the club by Fergie upon Berbatov’s arrival, and excused him when he went public about it in a radio interview in South America, back in December. I was willing to understand his point of view when he again did it in February/March. But he kept doing this as the season wound up towards its closing stages; his reaction upon scoring the goal against City; him playing the victim card using the massive fan support as a stick to beat the club with made me wonder what he’s really upto.
What shocked me was the willingness of the fans to boo Ferguson when he substituted Tevez, and even drown out the manager’s address to the crowd. What the hell were they thinking?
Following the Tevez deal cancellation announcement, Kia Joorabchian clarified his side of things:
“When Man United made their offer about ten days ago, for the first time in two years, we never went back to them to ask about money. We just asked for some time to think about it. Obviously they have had two years to think about it and Carlos had to make a decision based on his family. Just to make it clear, this has been Carlos’ decision. Nobody else would make this decision for him. We didn’t actually reject the offer. Manchester United have ruled themselves out of the running. We actually asked for more time and if they could not give that we would have to walk away. He wants time to digest it and to know which club would suit him because now he is committing the next five years of his future.”
Now this makes little sense to me. Joorabchian said that Tevez needed more time to think this over. But, ironically, it was Tevez who went public on two things:
1. that he always wanted to stay at United, and it was United that didn’t seem to want him. He in fact said that he’d sign up in a flash had they offered him a deal, not too long ago.
2. that he ruled out Spain and feels settled in England, and liked the fact that his daughter feels happy growing up in England.
Kia’s suggestion seems to contradict these two points because it makes it seem like Tevez actually feels the need for time to decide between United and City, when it doesn’t even involve moving house. He says he needed time to figure out which team would suit him. But is there even a choice to be made between City and United? Sure, he’ll get more starts in City, but would it meet his ambition right now?
He says his close relationship with the fans meant that he wouldn’t go to Liverpool, but Kia also mentioned Chelsea as an option. Now a Chelsea move wouldn’t infuriate United fans as much as had he moved to Liverpool, but they still are a title rival and to me, that would certainly disappoint. City, not being a threat at present wouldn’t present the same challenge. Also I doubt he can be assured of starts even in Chelsea, something that’s been a thorny issue for him at United.
But leave all that aside. Joorabchian goes on to add:
“If it was, let’s say, Wayne Rooney’s contract finishing six months before, or Cristiano Ronaldo’s contract finishing six months before, would they have tried to secure their services a bit sooner? He has that little bit of a feeling that maybe he wasn’t the most wanted person at United. Rightly or wrongly, that’s how he feels.”
Now regarding Wayne Rooney and Ronaldo there is a major difference. Regardless of who the player is, if the club owned the player, they are never going to let his contract run down. In Tevez’s case, we never owned him, so it wasn’t a bad idea to see how he performs over the season to ensure he’s worth his asking price.
It now hits me, and shocks me that United actually offered £25.5m and Tevez might have actually accepted it. This is over the £9m that it cost to bring him to the club on loan. Tevez is a really good player, but certainly not world class, which is what those sums of money dictate. My mind boggles if I think about how we would have bought a striker that might do a lot of running and grafting but isn’t really a better player than Rooney or Ronaldo. And for a striker that demands such transfer fees, he would have to score a lot of goals to justify it.
I find it sad it had to end like this. But I can’t say I’m too sad to see him go. I would have found it hard to wrap my head around overpaying for a good player. I am actually glad United showed some urgency in enforcing the strict deadline to show that they need to resolve this issue before sorting out the squad for the next season.
Here’s hoping for the same decisiveness whilst dipping into the transfer market.
On Tevez, we sincerely wish him the best of luck, as long as he doesn’t score against us. (It’s nice to see he had the good sense to reject the cesspool; we’ll grant him that.)
Related items from Red Rants:
- Hargreaves Move Confirmed – Breaking News
- Manutd.com: Reds Announce Tevez Capture
- Manchester United Sign Tevez?
- High Court Comes to Tevez’s Rescue
- Breaking News: United accept 80m Ronaldo bid
Tags: Manchester United News · Manchester United Players
June 20th, 2009 at 22:37
Now that Tevez is gone I hope we see some transfer activity by United, I dont want rumors or other clubs presidents linking their players to our club I want solid deals with big name players.
I prefer Benzema or Huntelaar as our new striker, Huntelaar seems the better easier option since we can cut from the 80 mill for Ronaldo and sign him for free, but Benzema is my personal choice.
And what I also want is to give Nani and Tosic their chances to shine, we dont to buy anyone to replace Ronaldo I think we already have not 1 but 2 already signed.
Another thing, Im a big fan of Ashley Young so if we should buy a winger I prefer Young.
June 20th, 2009 at 22:38
Like liverpool can afford him lol, i agree about the urgency part, i think the club had a deadline so that they dont waste time on waiting for a striker that is good enough, we have other problems to solve like replacing ronaldo’s goals and our midfield and tevez isnt the answer to any of those.
June 20th, 2009 at 22:40
benzema benzema benzema bleh blah bloh, you guys think this is a playstation game where the player you buy sits there and says nothing and feels nothing.
June 20th, 2009 at 22:41
Another thing I forgot to add is I really wanted David Villa as our new striker but doesnt seem likely for a lot of reasons so Im not naming him as someone we can actually get.
June 20th, 2009 at 22:42
http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/sport/371557/Cristiano-Ronaldo-confesses-I-decided-to-quit-United-a-year-ago.html
June 20th, 2009 at 22:50
@ROOOOONEY: So much for the people who retorted that his attitude this season was because he was frustrated with his form and not because he was tired of being at United. If that is to be believed, he’s probably the first human who told a lie to his own face. He interviewed himself and said he was happy here, when he had already made up his mind to quit last year.
June 20th, 2009 at 22:50
@ROOOOONEY: Truthfully? No.
June 20th, 2009 at 22:52
I understand carlito’s sentiments. It’s true that if it were Rooney or Ronaldo, they would have sorted it out long ago. Hell, Ronaldo had 3 or 4 more years on his contract and they were already busy renegotiating terms. If managment wanted him, they should have acted sooner.
Alas, he is gone now. Lets continue.
Why do people under the illusion that Benzema is the answer to our problems? The same way they believed Berbatov will be an immediate hit?
Anyone coming in will need time to settle in (like the 1.5 years that Berbatov requires).
While we’re on this topic of transfers, why do people think that Torres is so great? His goalscoring record is no different than Carlitos.
I say, rather the devil you know than the one you don’t.
Lets give our kids a chance, and for fuck sake, give Nani a proper chance like we gave Ronaldo in the beginning.
June 20th, 2009 at 22:52
@Rd: I think it’s a combination of both. His mind was already in Madrid. He had some niggling injuries in the early part of the year, but his ego and drive to succeed ensured he finished the season strongly.
Of course he lied, but then what do we expect? That he declare last summer he would leave United at the end of the following season?
June 20th, 2009 at 22:53
Off the topic for a second. Honest to God, I refuse to watch one game from next year’s World Cup if FIFA plans on allowing the South Africans to annoy us all with the sound of the incessant and maddening vuvuzela horn that they keep blowing. It sounds like a swarm of bees are stuck and fighting to get out of your tv. It can drive you mad. Fuck the cultural tolerance, that thing has to be banned. I don’t know what it says about a culture that can’t go watch a sporting event without acting like a bunch of ass clowns? It’s a football match not a jazz festival. JEEZ!
June 20th, 2009 at 22:56
I for one have made my case and my peace regarding Ronaldo and for Tevez as well. I say lets just move on, wish them well and get on to the more important stories that are gripping our team, who replaces them. I for one am suffering from Ronaldoitis and an inflammation known as Tevez Elbow.
June 20th, 2009 at 22:56
@Rd: In response to a post of yours on the previous thread:
“Fergie probably needed to know quickly where United stood with the Tevez transfer so he knows how to plan his summer spending”
This is what bothers me. Why did Fergie have to ‘know where United stood’ before he can plan his summer spending? He should have had it planned long ago. Waiting till the last on a player that you supposedly ‘wanted’ does not convey much confidence in ‘his plan’. I have a feeling we will end up with some panic buys.
June 20th, 2009 at 22:57
@Red Ranter: No, I mean that youtube video of him interviewing himself which he said he was staying(sorry I can’t find it now, I guess its been deleted). It was towards the end of the season. Why would he do that when he knew he was leaving, it wasn’t even the press interviewing him, he did a spoof interviewing himself and lied that he was staying when he could have just skipped that part altogether. Really can’t figure out how his mind works.
June 20th, 2009 at 23:00
@Karl:
Torres for
current English club: 57 apps 38 goals (.667)
national team: 65apps 22 goals
Tevez
current English club: 63apps 19 goals (.3)
national team: 50apps 8 goals
I’m not even going to debate on their “similar” records.
June 20th, 2009 at 23:01
@Grognard:
1. I for one like the vuvuzela sounds. It’s uniquely African. I can guarentee you that is you were to attend one game in the stadium, you will go out and get one, just like me
It really gives off a bee or mosquito effect.
2. I know you’ve made peace, but I have to bring it up…Do you still feel the same about defending Ronaldo even though he played ‘half-heartedly’ for us, admitting his mind was made up long ago, and his heart was during his ‘off-form’ period already set on Madrid?
3. Just wanted to remark that during the South Africa vs Spain game, I was really much more impressed with Pienaar as a CAM than what I was with the ‘worldclass’ Xavi.
June 20th, 2009 at 23:01
@Rd: “Really can’t figure out how his mind works.“
Which explains his act really.
He’s a specimen.
June 20th, 2009 at 23:02
@Karl: So he knows whether he’d need to buy a new striker or not if Tevez leaves? because he and Gill decided it would be best to sort out Tevez’s transfer at the close season Thats what I meant by wanting to know where United stood. If we panic buy, it’d be because of the price inflation of all our targets with clubs knowing how much we have now, not because Fergie didn’t plan his summer well.
One thing is for sure though, no matter how this summer goes, Fergie just can’t win.
June 20th, 2009 at 23:03
@Red Ranter: Remember that most of Tevez’ appearances was as sub.
Thing is, it is not really Tevez I’m concerned about when comparing the two. Just trying to illustrate a point that he is overrated.
June 20th, 2009 at 23:06
@Rd: Still does not quite explain it. They should have know in advance already. They should have known what to do when Ronaldo leaves. Inflated prices are also their own fault. They could have made an agreement with Madrid to keep things silent. United was in the driving seat with the deal. They fucked up there.
June 20th, 2009 at 23:07
http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/sport/371228/Nemanja-Vidics-pound1m-a-year-rise-Manchester-United-secure-Serbian-defender.html
he deserves it and moreeeeee
June 20th, 2009 at 23:12
I for one will stop talking about or even think of Ronaldo and Tevez, they moved on and so will I.
Now, we need a striker so who will it be?
June 20th, 2009 at 23:14
@Karl: You are trying to illustrate the point he’s overrated by just saying he’s overrated. That is not an illustration.
I say he’s not overrated, and his goal record, technical attributes etc are far superior to Tevez. He perfectly deserves his rating. In fact, I felt Tevez was overrated, and going by the 25.5m offered by United for Tevez and the 26m spent on Torres by Liverpool, I think I’m right on this one.
June 20th, 2009 at 23:16
@Karl: How do they know that Tevez would reject them? And whether or not United were in the driving seat, you can’t really believe that the deal for the world transfer record could have stayed under the radar, it would have leaked anyway and even if it didn’t, the press would speculate as everyone had known Ronaldo was gonna cost between £60-80m anyway, no one was just sure if RM were crazy enough to pay that.
Look, you’ve seem to make up your mind that United are being run by incompetent people. I’ll leave you at it.
June 20th, 2009 at 23:17
@ROOOOONEY: Thats shocking, I can’t believe he’s on £50,000. He deserves almost double that.
June 20th, 2009 at 23:20
@Red Ranter: Torres had 17 goals. Hell, even Rooney renowned for not being clinical does better.
I think I used the wrong person to illustrate the point. Not because they have a similiar goal-scoring ability imo, but just because of the mixed emotions of United fans on Tevez.
As far as I know, Torres has never achieved 30 goals per season. How clinical is he really?
June 20th, 2009 at 23:23
@Karl: OK first off, the vuluzela is an abomination for tv and it’s viewers. It’s sounds terrible. I couldn’t give a rats ass about 70,000 horn blowing idiots in the stadium. I am more concerned about the millions of tv viewers around the world who have to be subjected to a culturally Neanaderthal pastime while trying to watch a game. Nothing you can ever say or do will ever change my mind on that and if I was at a game and they were driving me crazy with that, I’d be getting into fights breaking the bloody things.
Regarding Ronaldo, yes I still feel the same. Only a total fool would think that anything had really changed. That whole masquerade that was cooked up last off season to save face was designed to keep fans content and not constantly harping on Ronaldo’s play because they would use the excuse of his leaving as the reason for a poor performance. To Ronaldo’s credit, I think he actually played quite well considering his personal distractions and focus were off, his long layoff and recover from injury and his lack of match fitness for the first dozen or so games. After that, he seemed pretty damned good because he was still playing for his own ego and reputation. I do still feel the same way because he did what he did, after 6 seasons with the club. We won everything with him and can really ask no more from him if his heart is calling him to go elsewhere.
And finally, I am not a fan of Penis head Pienaar. Just hate him and his stupid hair styles. And he isn’t fit to shine Xavi’s shoes nor wash his car. I also do not make such a bold judgment about two players based on one game.
June 20th, 2009 at 23:23
@Rd: The press would have speculated, and that is exactly what it would have been. Speculations. At least it would have given them time to find suitable replacements without the fear of the price being hiked due to the Ronaldo transfer.
It’s not as if they’ve never lied to the public or fans before
I’m sorry if it sounds demeaning or negative, but I do believe that our management could become much, much more competent.
June 20th, 2009 at 23:24
@Karl: You should really look at goals per game. A ratio of .5 is considered good for a good striker. And his is about .67. Very good if you ask me. Torres also spent half of last season injured. If he scored 30 goals despite that, then we are talking about superhuman goal scoring.
June 20th, 2009 at 23:27
All I know is I’d have him here in a heartbeat if he wasn’t already infected with the Liverpool virus. He’d be awesome at United along Rooney and I rate him REALLY highly. TWICE the player Tevez is imo, better goal scorer than Rooney, but the latter is more complete and a better player. Downside is he seems to be injury prone(at least last season).
June 20th, 2009 at 23:27
Also, I think Ronaldo is really two human beings in one body.
And for those who don’t get it, I am only joking.
He is actually ten humans plus a martian in one body.
June 20th, 2009 at 23:29
@Karl: Yes but like I said everyone knew there was a minimum price Ronaldo would leave for, so the selling clubs would still have known we had lots of money on our hands either way.
June 20th, 2009 at 23:32
@Grognard: I said that in that particular game Pienaar performed better than Xavi. Not a bold statement by any means, just an observation.
Re the vuvuzelas… In this case, I would say, screw the TV audiences. They can always go to the stadiums.
There is huge debate over banning the vuvuzela. I personally think that it gives the stadium (whether we like it or not), an African flavour. something uniquely African. It is a defining element (even though many people might not like it) that distinguishes African football from those in other countries. Much like traditional African music vs Western ‘Art’ music. It might not be to everyone’s liking, but I feel we should respect it because it is part of a culture. And, once you get used to it, kinda cool
Perhaps you should try blowing one during an Ice hockey game
June 20th, 2009 at 23:32
@Red Ranter: One of those ten humans is a really, really metrosexual dude who wears flowers in his hat and tight short shorts
June 20th, 2009 at 23:32
@Red Ranter: I can’t believe you said that!
. Ronaldo didn’t have to lie and pretend undying love for Manchester, his home, his heart. FFS RR, all he had to do whenever asked any questions, was to smile and say nothing! I think I liked it better when he said “ONly God knows the future.” At least that wasn’t a LIE!
June 20th, 2009 at 23:34
@Rd: Not if we kept on denying the ‘rumours’. Besides, I would have expected them to have the replacements tied up like with Nani and Anderson.
June 20th, 2009 at 23:35
I was kinda expecting this to happen… I had a feeling that Tevez might have stayed, but it wasnt expected or hoped for.
Ive just gotta thank him for all he has done for us, and now we can look ontot eh future. Like we always have done! Tevez is not in the category fo Ruud, Becks, Solskjaer, and definately not Cantona, but we have lost two seriously vital players this summer. Both Ronaldo and Tevez have been incredibly influencal in our two latest titles, and we wont have either come next August. It could prove to be catastrophic, but something tells me its all gonna turn out just fine. Fergie has proven me wrong time and time and time again, and so has United. 
All I know is that we have a hugely interesting summer ahead of us! 
June 20th, 2009 at 23:36
@Red Ranter: He’s a flaky Portuguese git. He’s immature, uneducated and basically a street urchin who made it big. Doesn’t the name Maradona remind you of him? Some people cannot deal with fame and success with much dignity or class. Some need it act brash, egotistical and cocky in order to legitimize their position in life because they frankly lack the intellect and social upbringing to compare or compete with. So they compete by showcasing their skill as footballers, being petulant and egotistical about it and then strutting about town hoping people notice them for what they are now, and not where they come from.
Anytime you see a celebrity that looks or acts like an ass clown, just consider where they come from and you will get answer as to why they are who they are. Humility is not a part of their DNA because it brings them back down to Earth and reminds them of when they didn’t have two slices of bread to make a dirt sandwich out of. I have always hated actors because 95% of them are all scum of the Earth. Street urchins that have made it big. Truly deserving and decent people who make it big do not constantly thrive for attention and act like idiots when in public. Above all, good well balanced and properly brought up individuals rarely lapse into self destructive habits that eventually destroy them.
Maradona was once a young naive and likable kid scooped out of poverty and the Buenos Aires ghetto who eventually gree such an arrogance and ego that he imploded through drug use, over eating self abuse and criminal behavior. Why? Because he never had the value system and upbringing from an early age to prevent that kind of self destruction. Because he never had the education to allow himself the common sense and knowledge that would have hopefully steered him in the right direction. Education and upbringing is not a guarantee for humility and success, but it certainly helps. Poor Ronaldo is just dumb as nails. He is ignorant to the real things that matter and he does not know any better. So he hides behind his cockiness and petulance like a scared little boy, so wanting to be loved and understood. Trust me, when a player says he loves to be booed, he means the exact opposite. I just hope that the pressure at Madrid doesn’t turn him to drugs for answers.
June 20th, 2009 at 23:37
@Red Ranter: This is a lesson to me…Never believe a word you hear in the media…from Anyone!
Fuck, I’ll miss the human that provided all the step-overs. Made watching the game exciting. I hope Nani can provide that. He came to us with that promise. Here’s to hoping he can deliver.
June 20th, 2009 at 23:41
@Karl: United HAD made a deal with Calderon, no matter how much United are denying it. That is why Calderon is taking the credit for the Ronaldo move coming to fruition. It is also why SAF could emphatically say after all that warfare last summer, that “with a certainty it is over, done with, and Ronaldo’s staying.” He had sorted it with Ronnie and his agent and Real Madrid for this summer. That is why SAF was saying just recently, “Ronaldo was always going.” I mean come on, it doesn’t take Inspector fucking Cluedo now does it? What threatened the deal, was that Real Madrid voted in a new president, and nobody knew whether he would still want the deal.
June 20th, 2009 at 23:42
@Red Ranter: Torres is a God. Easily among the top five footballers in the world and so you are correct. Comparing Torres to Tevez would be like comparing Rooney to Dave Kitson.
June 20th, 2009 at 23:44
@Craig Mc: Point is that they should have played it the way they did the Calderon issue. That is, if they are really afraid of prices being hiked due to the transfer. They shot themselves in the foot.
June 20th, 2009 at 23:45
@Karl: Torres was injured for most of the season. Missed many games and played many games injured or started on the bench because of the injuries. And he still scored 17 goals. How about we look at last year when he scored over 30 goals in all competitions and 23 in the EPL? So how on Earth does that compare well to Tevez?
Tevez is shit in comparison
June 20th, 2009 at 23:46
@Rd: Christ, if I were United I’d take 65 million and offer it right now for Torres and see if Liverpool blinks. I’d go as high as 70 million because he’s not that far behind Kaka or even Messi and Ronaldo. He has qualities none of them have.
June 20th, 2009 at 23:47
@Craig Mc: i think you are right but why have we not purchased a replacement yet? you would think saf knowing all year that we would have brought in a replacement before everyone knew we had an extra 80m in our pocket. maby we arent going to see a big purchase this year at all. and we are going to blood in the youngsters. thats fine unless we are playing shite come january and have to make rash purchases to try and salvage the season.
just give us silva, aguaro and a young brazillian or two and call it done.
June 20th, 2009 at 23:48
@Grognard: Everybody is entitled to their own opinion I suppose. In my opinion, Torres is overrated. I’m sorry, but I don’t fall for the “if he’s Spanish, he’s God, I mean Good” stuff.
Rooney to me is better. And, Rooney is not even renowned for goal-scoring.
June 20th, 2009 at 23:50
@Karl: I don’t give a rats ass about African flavor mate. I am trying to watch a soccer match I am paying for on pay tv. And sorry to burst your bubble but tv revenue throughout the world, the millions of us poor souls watching from homes or from pubs amounts to be a Hell of a lot more important than the relatively few in the stadium who do not understand how those contraptions sound to millions around the world? Ban them and ban them now. One compromise, allow them for South African only games. That’s basically three games and we never have to hear them again.
June 20th, 2009 at 23:52
@Karl: “if he’s Spanish, he’s God, I mean Good”
Who the hell said that over here?
Most of arguments here have revolved around cold hard facts, ie, the goal scoring record you questioned in comparison to Tevez. There is no need for anyone to bring such an outlandish argument (of him being Spanish) to defend him. So to those of us who don’t argue that way, please bring a better response than that.
June 20th, 2009 at 23:54
I also watched the game on tv tonight and it did not bother me at all.
I actually do give a rats ass about African flavour.
June 20th, 2009 at 23:54
We have to sign benzema…forget the others like aguero(another midget). Benzema is the closest player to torres and thats the type of player we need quick,powerful and a finisher.Yea hes arrogant but so what?I think its a good thing if channeled nicely. He might not go through droghts like Rooney. And if he leaves for real in 3 years? thankyou for the goals and the money!Hunterlaar too slow,will disappear and not a big game player like benny would be. A winger we defo need aswell
June 20th, 2009 at 23:55
@gator: David Gill said today that United will have the players they are bringing in by end of July, so we will obviously be bringing some in. My main arguement has been all along Gator, that when SAF knew Ronnie was going, that we should have had alternative plans already established. Anyway, with a new president coming into Madrid, United couldn’t say with certainty that he would still want the deal that was made last summer, or try and buy themselves out of it with the 26 million cancel clause. The dirty was done, UNited and Real M just didn’t want to admit it to the fans at the time. When Calderon was charged for fraud etc in his dealings at Real M, then nobody knew what was going to happen I suspect.
June 20th, 2009 at 23:56
@Red Ranter: What I meant was the current hype surrounding Torres, Xavi, Iniesta, and the whole Barca team for that matter.
Not meant as a political or racial remark.
June 20th, 2009 at 23:57
@Craig Mc: Actually we had alternative plans. Although the alternatives they had in mind might sadden you, considering Ferguson had spent a big chunk of the season scouting Antonio Valencia (according to Whelan).
June 20th, 2009 at 23:57
Now we are in a position where we can choose between two different roads. Both have a chance of perfection, both a chance of failiure. We can choose between relying on the players we already have, the youth. The other is opting for new talent, players like Aguero, Benzema, Silva etc.
Youth: Tevez and Ronaldo have moved on. While we have an option of replacing them with top talent, we may do what we did in the 1950`ies, 1990`ies and to some effect these last years. I wasnt alive in 1954, so I cunno much about what the transition was like day-by-day those days. But I remember what happend when Kanchelskis, Hughes, Ince and Parker left. They were replaced by Scholes, Beckham, Butt and the Nevilles. Can we do that again? We have seen on many occasions this season that the kids can become world beaters. Macheda, Welbeck, Rafael, Gibson… Maybe only on a few occasions, but they are still very young so they wont perform perfectly each game. A part of me wishes that United will replace Ronaldo with Welbeck, Tevez with Macheda, Scholes with Anderson, Giggs with Nani and Neville with Rafael. Anderson, Rafael and Nani have already proven that they are good enough to be part of the first team. Welbeck and Macheda have also showed it, though on fewer occasions. But they have the talent, I have massive belief in them. Kiko we know is a really good striker, and may become one of the worlds best in some years if we give him the chance to improve. Welbeck is also a very good striker, but Fergie has used him on the wing more often than not. Against Hull, Everton, Spurs and Derby, Danny was used as a right or left winger. Has Fergie made him the natural succesor to Ronaldo, transformed him into a winger? He is tall, has good skill, has the finishing, and is quick. Balance, Strenght and decision making will come with age, and he already tried to do that Ronaldo celebration(but failed miserably
). Do I think these guys are good enough for United? Maybe. They are young, and they will improve. United are known for giving youngsters chances, and this season most of them have. Winners of teh Carling Cup, Semis of the FAC and made their mark on the Premier League(Villa, Sunderland, Stoke, Hull).
Then there is also buying new players, but I feel we have gone through the pros and nons of that before. So I wont go further into that. I will just finish with saying that I believe our team may look like this next season:
VDS
Brown Rio Vidic Evra
Nani Carrick Anderson Welbeck
Rooney Berbatov
subs: Foster, Rafael, Evans, Gibson, Fletcher, Park, Macheda
Still, I hope we buy at least one good winger and an incredible striker. Wether Benzema, Aguero or Villa, doesnt matter right now! We just need to fix the situation we are in, because we have parted with two really good players before July has even arrived. So I excpet changes to be made, great changes!
June 20th, 2009 at 23:57
@Karl: “Perhaps you should try blowing one during an Ice hockey game”.
Interesting story from 1972. Canadians have a stupid horn that some like to blow. When Canada played the epic 8 game Canada/Russia 1972 Summit series, about a couple thousand Canadian fans traveled with the team to Moscow for the four games there. One of the fans was a hippy who brought his horn along to blow to his heart’s content. He eventually blew it so often that he got on the nerves of Russian police and he was arrested, beaten, stripped, had his his long hair shaved off and anally probed to see if they could find drugs. He was interrogated and even tortured for hours before he was released and immediately sent to Canada.
Now I am not Russian nor am I that much of an asshole or cruel bastard but if one bloody horn can piss off people like that, can you imagine how 70,000 of them would piss off those thousands of visitors from thew rest of the world visiting Africa to watch the World Cup and have to be subjected to such an annoying noise that it makes them physically sick. And to think that we have to put up with it on tv where it sounds even worse, well trust me, FIFA will not allow it for the World Cup. I guarantee it. They are more concerned with tv rights and ratings. Thats where the real money is.
June 20th, 2009 at 23:58
@Craig Mc: What would have happened if the deal with the new president fell through? Would it have been a bad thing to keep hold of Ronaldo at OT?
I don’t buy that as an excuse.
June 20th, 2009 at 23:59
@Karl:
Hype is cyclical.
But if you want to argue Torres v Tevez, which is why this debate started in the first place, then I’ve made my points above. And that statement you made seemed out of place in it. Which was why I was confused.
June 21st, 2009 at 0:02
@Karl: If you know anything about me mate, you know that I am no fan of anything Spanish. So if I come out and make a declaration about a Spanish player that is positive, and a Liverpool player at that, then trust me, it must be true because I hate everything about Spain in regards to football and much of their land and culture. And that is my opinion so for those out there who are Spanish and feel hard hit and offended, by all means, make fun of Greece or Canada. I don’t really care. Torres is a God, whether you want to believe it or not mate. And most football pundits out there will back me up. And finally, regarding Rooney, he is not just a goal scorer. He’s a lot more than that.
June 21st, 2009 at 0:02
@Grognard: Interesting story.
What about alternatives? How about deadening that frequency of sound out for tv broadcasting? With modern technology that is very much a possibility I think.
June 21st, 2009 at 0:02
Grog…you always talk bout players not being soft and what not but here you are complaining about the sound of intruments that symbolise the african spirit? it has nothing to do with the game on the pitch. This is an AFRICAN world cup not a european or american so we will see african traditions.It might be a bit or in ur case very irritating but deal you will have to deal with it mate its only sounds!
June 21st, 2009 at 0:04
Please tell me that we are not going to be suffering this bloody Ronnie/Tevez soap opera all summer. They are GONE, and I don’t want to hear everyone just going over same old things again and again. The sooner we get away from it all, the sooner that other fans will stop trying to go on to us about it. I just shrug my shoulders. We will see how we do without them. You know what, I will laugh my arse off if we succeed big time this season, after everyone, including United fans with shaking knees, keep telling us we are going to win nothing.
June 21st, 2009 at 0:04
@Karl: Perhaps you should get the audio on your tv fixed. It’s obviously not working.
June 21st, 2009 at 0:05
@Craig Mc: By the end of July. So in other words another bunch of Berbatovs who haven’t had the pre season training period with the club to help get them acclimated and comfortable. Smart!
June 21st, 2009 at 0:07
@Karl: I don’t think it would have been a bad thing to be honest, but we couldn’t do much about it, because he would have still been under contract. And one thing you can’t say about Ronnie, is that he wouldn’t have given his all for the cause. If nothing else he is a true professional and a winner. The other side, which we hated, we couldn’t do anything about that
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June 21st, 2009 at 0:07
@Karl: That would sound awful mate. How about deadening the South African fans who use the horns instead.
June 21st, 2009 at 0:08
@Red Ranter: I explained in my other post (#25) that perhaps I used the wrong person in Tevez to illustrate my point. That is why I mentioned Rooney afterwards.
@Grognard: As I mentioned in #51 , not meant as a racial or political remark. Just commenting on the hype.
For exapmple “we have a crap midfield” and “Barca have the best midfield because of Xavi and Iniesta”. That’s bull.
June 21st, 2009 at 0:08
@Craig Mc: “Only God knows…” should go down in history as the most annoying quote ever. Many years down the line, an old man would tell the tale of the all knowing God, to his grand children, and upon hearing that tale, the children would get up and chop off the head of the old man and feed it to a crocodile for telling him such a tale, and that act will be done without a hint of remorse.
June 21st, 2009 at 0:09
@Grognard: Live with it Grog, or to avoid a nervous breakdown and straightjacket, run the water in that big tub of yours and sit in it with the ladies with the big boobs
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June 21st, 2009 at 0:10
@Karl: Ok there is a much better case for a debate in order to compare Rooney and Torres, but I’d say they complement each other much better as a pair than Rooney and Berbatov.
And Rooney’s had his own share of hype — you’re talking of the British press here.
He is the golden boy of England, so in terms of hype, he’s comparable to Torres.
June 21st, 2009 at 0:10
@Red Ranter: What??? Hey I believe in the good Lord, so don’t knock it RR
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June 21st, 2009 at 0:11
@Grognard: Nah…I say keep the vuvuzelas. Like Taer said, it’s an African World Cup. It is different to the European, Asian and South American World Cups.
I think that it’s like wine. An acquired taste.
June 21st, 2009 at 0:11
@Taehr: I don’t care. GOT IT. I don’t care about South Africa’s World Cup. Like the rest of the planet, they need to get in line and conform to standards of conduct and responsibility while at games. Their country is going to be involved in probably only three games and so we must allow for their cultural bad habits to be inflicted during a Germany vs Italy match? FUCK NO! As I see it they are bloody lucky they are getting this World Cup and so they either get in line and conform, or they can sod off. I’m sure South African culture is deep enough and passionate enough that they can survive during a match with out blowing horns like a bunch of ass clowns.
June 21st, 2009 at 0:13
@Craig Mc: God I hope not Bro. I made my peace, now I want to move on. And Christ, Tevez isn’t even worth the sweat. At least Ronaldo was the best player on the planet.
June 21st, 2009 at 0:14
@Taehr: You tell him mate, you tell him
. Nothing wrong with the african ways of expression and spirit at their football matches. Is very waring on the ears though mate.
June 21st, 2009 at 0:14
@Karl: Our midfield is utter and total crap compared to Barcelona’s. Is that any clearer for you, or do you need to watch the CL final again and see it with your own eyes? There is such a thing as being a loyal and devoted fan, then there is such a thing a being a blindly naive fan too.
June 21st, 2009 at 0:15
@Red Ranter: I still think he’s overrated, but perhaps I speak with a little bias. I simply hate anything from Liverpool. If you compare goal-scoring, then I would say Drogba is also a better striker than Torres.
June 21st, 2009 at 0:16
@Grognard: You want African to become like Europeans? Is that what you’re saying?
June 21st, 2009 at 0:18
@Karl: South African’s are not one dimensional idiots. They do not live by or absolutely depend on a stupid horn in order for them to express themselves and offer us a piece of their culture at World Cup time. How about if they show the rest of the world some love and respect and give our ears a rest from something they may like but clearly the rest of the world doesn’t, or it wouldn’t be such an issue in the news and Internet.
June 21st, 2009 at 0:18
@Grognard: That was ONE game. We outsmarted Chelsea (who outsmarted Barca). We outsmarted Arsenal, we outsmarted all our CL competitors. We have one off day and now we’re utter crap?
I admit, we could do with reinforcements in midfield, but to say we’re utter crap is a bit over the top imo.
June 21st, 2009 at 0:19
@Karl: Ah the truth comes out. I thought so.
June 21st, 2009 at 0:20
@Karl: NO. I want them to stop blowing their fucking horns like dumb fucking zombies and watch the fucking football match like the rest of the fucking planet.
June 21st, 2009 at 0:21
The funny thing about the vuvuzela is, I haven’t seen it in use in cricket or rugby matches played in South Africa. It seems to be a football only thing over there, which could mean it’s not quite a sports cultural thing per se over there.
June 21st, 2009 at 0:22
Grog, Eto’s lawyer Masellas, is saying Eto is coming to England, and 3 clubs have bid the 20 million Barca asking price – Man Utd, Man City, and L’Pool. Marsellas says L’pool cannot afford him really, and onlt Man Utd and Man City are fighting it out.
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June 21st, 2009 at 0:23
@Karl: Our midfield is pedestrian, slow and a pile of dog shit when compared to the world class players in Barcelona’s midfield. How bad are they? Just wait and see if Fergie cannot properly find a player or two to replace Ronaldo. Without Ronaldo, we are a fight or sixth place team. That’s how useless the midfield is. Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, Barcelona and the two Milan’s all have better midfields than us. Where we win is we have the best back three in the world and Evra as well as having had Ronaldo up front.
June 21st, 2009 at 0:24
@Craig Mc: I don’t want Eto’o. He may be a good finisher, but he’s another midget that can’t head the ball.
June 21st, 2009 at 0:24
@Grognard: I am South African. I am not one dimensional. My spirit is African. I think it is time the world show Africa some respect.
To most, African culture is difficult to understand, because they don’t care to understand it. To say Africa need to conform I don’t believe is right.
June 21st, 2009 at 0:26
@Craig Mc: I don’t think so mate. I see him possibly going to City or to Italy. United will not pay the wages he is demanding which are ridiculous. And what’s he, the tenth forward we are supposedly going after. Has it really come to this with United? We are becoming a laughing stock.
June 21st, 2009 at 0:26
@Grognard: I agree that we will be a bit lacking without Ronaldo. Any team will be. But I don’t think we’re crap. Besides, Ronaldo played as a forward, not in midfield. I honestly believe we can cope.
June 21st, 2009 at 0:26
And another developing story with a quote, although I am always sceptical of the Daily Star: Hargo is expected to report along with the rest of the squad. Apparently he might be back sooner. It’s only just out, so let’s see how this story plays out. I’m not getting too carried away yet.
June 21st, 2009 at 0:29
Guys, It’s getting late, I would like to discuss further, but I think I need to get some sleep.
June 21st, 2009 at 0:30
@Karl: Perhaps as a South African you should learn to read my Canadian English and you will know that Inever called South African’s one dimensional. I challenged themas a people to prove to the world that they are not by putting the horns away and finding a more natural way of cheering the teams on. This is the World Cup, yes they must conform for the good of the tournament and for the respect they musst pay to the whole world. The horns are poor behavior that is annoying to other people throughout the world. Respect our rights to watch the games without being subjected to that crap. As for South Africa and it’s people, other than the horns and what used to be Apartheid, I have nothing negative to say, so don’t get started in making this a racist or nationalistic issue. It’s a football tolerance issue.
June 21st, 2009 at 0:31
@Red Ranter: I love Hargo but I’ll believe it when I see it.
June 21st, 2009 at 0:31
@Red Ranter: Don’t shoot the messenger mate
. I’m only telling you what Eto’s lawyer is saying 
. When did Fergie ever concern himself with what the fans think before he brings in players?
June 21st, 2009 at 0:32
@Karl: I never said Ronaldo played in the midfield, I said he played “up front” and was the main reason with our back four for our success.
June 21st, 2009 at 0:35
@Grognard: Well his LAWYER is saying UNited and City have are fighting for him, and he will be coming to England. Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo time will tell!
June 21st, 2009 at 0:36
@Red Ranter: that would be a massive plus mate, we really missed him at times last season.
June 21st, 2009 at 0:40
@Grognard: I disagree.
As I mentioned, you can take the same example of African music vs Western ‘Art’ music. This difference came up as part of my studies.
If western art music, you are expected to sit quietly in a theatre and appreciate the music. It is considered bad manners to speak or even move around during a performance. The experience becomes a performer / listener experience. With african music, you are expected to engage with the music. It is a acceptable to join in and dance during a performance. There is no performer / listener experience, but a “us” experience.
Neither of the cultures are wrong in their practice of music, but they are different. Both presents a different experience to people. It is this difference that needs to be respected.
Africa is by nature a joyfull, “noisy” nation. By blowing on the horns, supporters feel that they engage in the game more. It is something that has been done for years. To South Africans it is very ‘natural’. I don’t feel it is right to stop if because westerners don’t like it. Especially not if it is on African soil.
June 21st, 2009 at 0:42
@Fred The Red: He is supposedly coming back to report for training with the others, but will not be ready he says until October to actually be totally ready. If he manages it, it will be better than January I guess. IF though
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June 21st, 2009 at 0:43
@Karl: I thought you had bade us all good night mate
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June 21st, 2009 at 0:46
@Craig Mc: I know.
I suppose its a matter of I can’t leave the battlefield in the middle of the war.
Seriously though, I’m off.
June 21st, 2009 at 0:51
@Grognard: “culturally Neanaderthal pastime,” “..idots in a stadium.” Condescend much Grog?
June 21st, 2009 at 0:54
There is an article in the independent about Tevez. They are saying that David Gill have the Tevez team a deadline of Friday midnight or the offer was off. There was no confirmation before the deadline, and David Gill telephoned Joorabchian this morning and told him it was over, and this shocked and surprised Tevez. Makes me wonder if his slave owner told Tevez he had a deadline. Otherwise why was Tevez surprised to hear United had pulled the plug.
June 21st, 2009 at 1:02
@Red Ranter: Wasn’t shooting you, unless you want to grab the gun and shoot yourself.
All I was saying is I don’t want Eto’o, ie., sharing my opinion of him. 
June 21st, 2009 at 1:03
@Craig Mc: I wouldnt swap a fully fit Hargreaves for any other holding midfeider in the world, a class act.
June 21st, 2009 at 1:08
@Fred The Red: I love Owen Hargreaves Fred
, when fit he is all action super MF, the glue to hold out team together. I hope is operations are successful, because he loves football, and the guy is a winner.
June 21st, 2009 at 1:10
@Fred The Red: Fred another one in the Owen Hargo kindred spirit is Wes Brown. I love Wes Brown too, he is IMMENSE Fred. What’s your opinion of Wes?
June 21st, 2009 at 1:14
@Red Ranter: I do see what you mean, we need a POWERFUL presence in the penalty area, and I mean a powerful presence! The other thing they are continually reporting is that Lacombe is encouraging United now in their bid for Benzema, but could it be that SAF is bidding for BOTH Benzema and Eto’o? That would be a real shock if he is!
June 21st, 2009 at 1:31
I know this is reopening old wounds, but I still think I must link to one of the greatest articles I’ve read on the Ronaldo saga. It’s all the more interesting considering it’s by an Arsenal fan. I don’t necessarily agree with parts of it, but overall, it’s just brilliantly written.
Warning: It is a longish article.
June 21st, 2009 at 1:32
@Craig Mc: good solid player who was also missed last season, another one who I would have liked to have played against Barca in the final coz next to Vida he is the hardest player at the club and with both him and hargo missing last season at times we were a bit nice. If he was a bit better going forward he would be a smasher.
June 21st, 2009 at 1:48
@Red Ranter: Cmon RR, I dont know what time it is over there mate but its 1.40 in the morning over here and half of my brain is asleep and the other half is trying to join it, so trying to process something as philosophical as that Ronaldo piece was like trying to wash your face with sandpaper.
June 21st, 2009 at 1:55
@Craig Mc: I have a gut feeling that United have already been in contact with either Lyon, Benzema or both, their chairman said that a club had contacted him over Benzema but that he had managed to hold them off from going further, but he also recognised that Real Madrid were about to cause a chain reaction that could sweep Benzema to United, now why would he mention United whenever many clubs are being linked to him unless he knows something we dont.
June 21st, 2009 at 2:01
@Craig Mc: I know I mentioned this before but a French journo was on Talksport Radio 3 or 4 days ago and he seemed to think that Benzema joining United was a strong possibilty.
June 21st, 2009 at 2:03
@Fred The Red: Real men wash their face with sandpaper!!
June 21st, 2009 at 2:06
@Fred The Red: Sorry mate. I should have qualified that comment by saying read it only if you have time. It is a pretty long piece.
June 21st, 2009 at 2:14
@Fred The Red: I think it’s a probability that Benzema will sign for United. Him and Valencia. So when you think about the team with those two additions, the big, big hole is CMF.
Without question, this need, and the dilemma of who, is our biggest challenge over the next 6 weeks.
Lets all focus!!!
June 21st, 2009 at 2:15
@Redrich: I say convert Berbatov to a playmaking central midfielder.
June 21st, 2009 at 2:20
@Red Ranter: Is he any good in goal???
June 21st, 2009 at 2:34
I’d like to float the question – How happy is Ballack at Chelsea??
Just a thought!!
June 21st, 2009 at 2:41
@Redrich: as much as its unwise to pin your hopes on someone fighting a chronic injury, i think a fully fit Hargreaves would go along way in solving that problem, lets hope the above article on him is true.
June 21st, 2009 at 2:47
@Redrich: The closest thing to the type of ball winning midfielder that we need is Toulalon of Lyon, I dont know what his current situation is but I know he was strongly linked with Bayern Munich a few months ago, maybe Grognard would be able to enlighten us.
June 21st, 2009 at 2:50
@Fred The Red: Fred, Hargreaves coming back would be a huge plus, but even if we have him at some point before Xmas, another enforcer type CMF will be vital to our new, more conventional, line-up.
We need to win the 50/50 ball going forward so that our outside and central attackers get a crack at the whip!!
June 21st, 2009 at 2:59
@Fred The Red: To be honest, I’ve not heard of him, so Grogs input would be good.
June 21st, 2009 at 3:32
@Redrich: hes your typical French water carrier as big Eric used to call them, neat and tidy on the ball, unspectacular going forward, but very dogged and determined defensively, played well if my memory serves me right against us in the Champions League the season before last. Arsenal and Chelsea were both linked to him in the past, but more recently it has been Bayern although they are about to sign Anatoliy Tymoschuk from Zenit who does a similar job.
June 21st, 2009 at 3:32
Screw Tevez. Little coward hiding behind Kia.
I would rather have a Ronaldo playing half-strength than a 100% Tevez. We will miss Ronaldo. I already am. I still hope Madrid collapse under their weak defence.
June 21st, 2009 at 4:03
@Fred The Red: Fred, I can’t believe your still going, mate. I’m a sporadic insomniac, but your doing double duty here, my friend.
Anycase I checked out Toulalon, but the big thing is that he also plays for Lyon. Without some very creative wangling, I’m not sure we could do a raid of this magnitude on a club like this!
Maybe a player swap and big cash, who knows!
June 21st, 2009 at 7:43
@Red Ranter:
Brilliant article. Kinda puts a new spin on the Ronaldo saga..
on another note, we have lost ~40 goals a season in Tevez and Ronaldo, and Fergie is still holidaying. anyone else getting nervous??
June 21st, 2009 at 9:06
Concerning the vuvezela discussion going on in here, I think it’s perfectly fine that its being used. After all the match is happening in Africa, you would expect some African flavour right?
Look at cricket for example. Fans from the Indian sub-continent are the noisiest ever and come to the game with drums, trumpets and what not. It adds to the occasion. Nobody ever complains about it too. Now I know in stadiums like the Lords there is a ban on the items you can take into the ground, but that’s England so they have a right to put the rules on their own stadium. In Kolkata nobody would ever dream of saying something like that for fear of getting assaulted!
So, let the game be played in the spirit of it’s hosting nation. Vuvuzelas? Trumpets? Drums? Anything is fine as long as it does not affect the players. I don’t think any other nationality can question its usage. It would be like the Africans complaining that vuvuzelas be brought into every EPL match then!
June 21st, 2009 at 9:11
@Roge9: As much as I can.
June 21st, 2009 at 9:15
@Redrich: Totally agree with that mate. We need to find an CMF badly.
June 21st, 2009 at 9:17
@Red Ranter: See now that’s a good idea as I have suggested that in the past about both Berba or Rooney. Both have the finesse and vision to be AMF’s and succeed.
June 21st, 2009 at 9:20
@Redrich: He just signed a year extension. I personally will never understand that because Lampard has kept him down and has kept him from playing his natural AMF position. Last year he was stuck playing far back in almost an DMF position and it really hurt his offensive numbers badly. He’s also 31 or 32 now so even I who consider him my favorite player have to say no way in Hell. That ship sailed 4 years ago as far as I’m concerned.
June 21st, 2009 at 9:24
@Fred The Red: No tthatmuch. I don’t follow the French league much but I do know he is a quality player but sounds like a player more suited for Arsenal. My two favorite targets would be Hernanes from Brazil and Felipe Melo, also from Brazil but playing currently for Fiorentina. Hernanes is the more all round talent being a box to box Essien type with great skills but I like Melo’s style and attitude. He is a you ng and mean Vieira type and just the kind of muscle we needed in that CL final as he would have given Xavi and Iniesta a piece of his mind and made them think twice every time they had the ball. He is really a mean player but not a dirty one. Failing to get either of those two, I’d more than settle for Yaya Toure or even Keita from Brazil.
June 21st, 2009 at 9:27
@Fred The Red: Tymoschuk has been signed by Bayern mid way through last season. Tymoschuk is also a great DMF but he is too old for United to be interested in him. I follow Bayern very close and I honestly do not recall any serious link between Bayern and Toulalon. However, it could have happened.
June 21st, 2009 at 9:32
@antsBoy: I have more than a right to question it’s use when it produces an unbearable buzz through a tv set that make one have to turn down the sound to watch a football match. Trust me, it’s gone for the World Cup. FIFA is not going to risk alienating millions of fans around the world or millions of dollars of advertising because advertisers are concerned that fans like myself are going to turn down their volume or even possibly not watch because of the annoying sounds. The most annoying pastime I have ever come across in 40 years of watching sports throughout the world. Also may be the dumbest.
June 21st, 2009 at 9:38
“But Torres says Liverpool will challenge Chelsea and Manchester United, despite not having the same financial clout as their rivals. He also wants to stay at Liverpool and get close to the legendary status of Kenny Dalglish and Robbie Fowler.“
Question, who is Kenny DOGLEASH and what the frak is a Robbie Fowler? Not exactly aspiring to greatness in my books. If I were him I’d want to be more like Stan Collymore.
:) Simple mindedness from a player with apparently a simple mind. Wouldn’t I want to be thought of as another George Best or Eric Cantona or Denis Law instead? 
June 21st, 2009 at 9:39
two outs, no ins, if this was baseball, the next one better be a home run or i might just…… i dont even know what i would do….
June 21st, 2009 at 10:18
So we are 10 days away from the transfer window opening, not a single signing, and our best player is set to leave(ronaldo that is).
Right now, i wouldnt mind if perez was our Chief executive, at least he gets what thte team wants/needs, and has a way with words obviously if he can get the likes of milan to sell kaka, a former world player of the year, to be sold for a mere £56mil, when city had to bid £100mil and still flopped
Im not a happy red right now.
June 21st, 2009 at 10:23
http://www.teamtalk.com/football/story/0,16368,1778_5394014,00.html
Ronaldo talking more BS about his “respect” for Fergie and the number 7 shirt. Who is he trying to fool?
June 21st, 2009 at 10:28
http://www.setanta.com/uk/Articles/Football/2009/06/21/Prem-United-source-on-Benzema/gnid-57735/
I hate midleading headlines
Benzema heading to United – report
by Laurent Picard , 21 June 2009
A source close to Manchester United has claimed that Karim Benzema is at the top of Sir Alex Ferguson’s list.
June 21st, 2009 at 10:55
@Aymen: I respect what he is saying here. He is not mouthing off about SAF or the club. Unlike mard arse and gobshite Tevez and his team. If Ronnie keeps up his respect for our club and Manager, I will be OK with that. Although it is very hard to believe anything, that anybody says in football anymore.
June 21st, 2009 at 11:02
@Vivek: NO – just keep the faith mate!
June 21st, 2009 at 11:49
Grognard if you believe the Sun Arsenal are tabling a £15 million bid for Melo. I really want us to go for him too. You look at his disciplinary record and you see he has all the makings of another Keane or Viera. No-one would mess with him and that would give room for Carrick to operate.He has leapfrogged Anderson into the Brazilian team, was a revelation in Serie A and has people like Mourinho interested in him, and being Brazilian would fit nicely into our Portuguese speaking club.
I don’t buy the rumours about Hargreaves coming back for good. That sort of injury doesn’t just miraculously get better.
I hope we wrap up the Valencia deal. Not really United quality but would be a useful team player and is better in defence than Nani and better in attack than Park so would be a nice balanced player to have in our new look team.
Then it would be just a matter of finding a third striker who offers something a little different to Rooney and Berbatov. Et’oo would fit the bill but I get the feeling he is just in it for the money and will go to City if anywhere. Huntelaar would be an interesting option but I do not think he is on Fergie’s radar.
I think Benzema is the best option. Lyon have basically said they will sell if the price is right. Madrid are out of the running because they are after Villa. We can outbid Barcelona.
Yes Benzema would probably piss off to Real Madrid after three years or so. But we could sell him for a profit and by that time Welbeck or Macheda would be ready to challenge for a first team place. Benzema is a tosser but he would want to prove himself at Manchester United and a bit of selfishness in a striker isnt a bad thing.
So my transfer business would be:
Valencia £15 million
Melo £15 million
Benzema £35 million
Any money left over Id look into spending on a keeper because Foster is too injury prone to be relied on as our Number One.
June 21st, 2009 at 11:53
@Grognard: Re the Vuvuzela: I am an African, living in South Africa. The Vuvuzela is our way of cheering our team, the African teams. You wont get it on the Cricket or Rugby matches because of the racial devides you get here-I am sorry to say but the truth is Cricket and Rugby are “whites only” sports and we only get the soccer. Taking the Vuvuzala away is like asking the dippers to never sing “you never wank alone or something like that”. We would rather FIFA take the World Cup away from us than take our Africanness out of us.
June 21st, 2009 at 11:55
@colver: Right, so you think we should sign a player because he gets loads of cards
I know, lets sign joey barton
June 21st, 2009 at 12:18
@Craig Mc: Ronnie is just saying what he thinks the fans want to hear. He’s a lying ass bitch. I for one is no longer interested in what he have to say. He’s been lying to us since after our CL triumph.
I just wonder that with Benzema signing:
1. Who will sit on the bench? Benzema, Rooney or Berbatov?
2. If we play 3 in attack, where will Rooney play? Out wide?
3. If Benzema plays up top, where will Berbatov play? Out wide?
4. How long will we give them to settle?
June 21st, 2009 at 12:29
@Dan lol I was thinking the same thing!
All these Benzema reports are giving me hope .I thought we had zero chance of signing him but now im optimistic. Fergie does fancy him as a player though and I do too. Him and rooney would be good and hes a proper striker…arrogant,confident and selfish and ability
June 21st, 2009 at 12:33
Karl…
Benzema=our torres
1.I think it will be Rotation depending on the game,fitness,form but to ans I would say berbatov
2.Benzema..he can play there
3.Berbatov wont play wide rooney or benny will
4.They will click instantly
June 21st, 2009 at 13:08
@Craig Mc: The guy just needs to shut up and stop patronizing us fans. He’s provoked us enough over the last 12 months and enough is enough. If he respects Fergie as much as he says, then he would have acted with dignity during his time at the club. He disrespected the history of the number 7 shirt and all those that have worn it before him. Yes he performed amazing feats on the field, but he never showed the love and compassion that Beckham, Cantona and Best showed towards the club. Everything that comes out of his mouth is just BS. He’s apologizing for the whole furore when he knew all along what he was trying to do- engineer a move to Madrid. This “apology” is just an attempt to rub salt into the wounds of the United fans. I can guarantee you we won’t hear Tevez saying anything negative towards the fans.
June 21st, 2009 at 13:32
http://www.people.co.uk/sport/football/tm_headline=man-utd-fury-over-claim-fans-hero-carlos-tevez-was-hung-out-to-dr%26method=full%26objectid=21459204%26siteid=93463-name_page.html
So much for the theory that evil Manchester United didn’t give poor wee Tevez enough time to mull over the offer.
June 21st, 2009 at 13:38
@Red Ranter: I sooo want to believe that, but October is still too late. I hope he somehow makes it back at the beginning of the season.
June 21st, 2009 at 14:24
Dan he gets cards because he is an aggressive player who isn’t afraid to get stuck in. He is also a damn good player. We need some aggression in our midfield because Fletcher and Carrick are too soft. Comparing him to Barton is unfair because Barton is just psychotic.
June 21st, 2009 at 14:39
@colver: itd not unfair in the slightest, joey barton is aggressive, so should he play for united> NO!, because hes not good enough. Like i give shit who arsene wanker is linked with, hes won shit all for 5 years now!
Cattermole, barton, guthrie, nolan, andrews, davies, all in your face players that like to get booked, none of them good enough for united.
Your argument has no weight to it.
June 21st, 2009 at 14:53
@Rd: I’d rather we aired on the side of caution and wait until October so he is 100% fighting fit.
June 21st, 2009 at 14:53
Dan my argument is he is aggressive AND good enough to play for United. As for Wenger he’s got a good eye for central midfielders: Fabregas, Gilberto Silva, Flamini, Viera. All signed by him and good players. I see aggression as a virtue if it is controlled and directed. Our current midfield just let Barca walk all over them without even putting up a fight. Someone like Keane would have never allowed that to happen. OK Melo is nowhere near as good as Keane but he has some of Keane’s qualities and I believe he is an improvement on the likes of Anderson and Fletcher.
I think if your central midfielders aren’t getting any cards at all it is because they are not getting stuck in enough. The nature of the game is that if you make some challenges you will occasionally get carded. Im not advocating wild crazy tackles or pointless confrontations like the guys you mentioned are guilty of. But Melo isn’t like that.
Of course you would rather put all our hopes in Ljajic who should still be in school, and Gibson who despite his advanced age is still incredibly average.
June 21st, 2009 at 14:56
@colver: Because a year out of football and 2 major operations = getting better miraculously
June 21st, 2009 at 15:20
@colver: Right i quote, “You look at his disciplinary record and you see he has all the makings of another Keane or Viera. No-one would mess with him and that would give room for Carrick to operate.” you never said anything about him being a good player, you just said he gets loads of cards which means he must be as good as viera or keane
Owen hargreaves has never gotten a red card in his career, he was apart of CL winning side. I guess that proves your theory of getting reds and yellows make you a better player as complete and utter bollocks!
And i would much rather put my faith in ljajic and gibson, at least i know what id be getting, not some idiot who likes to get himself booked.
FYI, ljajic is a winger/second striker, that can play CAM, not a CM/CDM. Shows how much you know about the lad.
June 21st, 2009 at 15:22
@Traverse: dont pay him any attention, this guy breathes bollocks of the highest testicle.
June 21st, 2009 at 16:23
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/manchester_united/s/1121791_fergie_closes_in_on_benzema
So they say we’re “closing in” on benzema, setanta say hes “heading to united,” but neither article give concrete evidence that we’ve even put a bid in let alone close to signing him
June 21st, 2009 at 16:35
http://rescindedred.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/foto_606.jpg
http://www.nypost.com/seven/07092008/photos/news008a.jpg
El bruno?
June 21st, 2009 at 17:16
How can United prevail with such a shitty midfield? It’s all well and good to imagine getting a striker getting 30 goals but then that is a very uneducated opinion. If the Barcelona crapfest teached us anything it’s that a ambivalent midfield is the way to go.
An efficient midfield will break open any defences and good service will ensure that even a Benny McCarthy would manage 15 goals per season. To be the best, you have to compare with the best. Scholes, Carrick, Park or Giggs are not (or no longer) world class quality. To aspire to be the best, you need a Gerrard (Liverpool), Lampard (Chelsea), Iniesta (Barcelona), Kakà or Ronaldo (Real Madrid). It is as simple as that.
And I don’t want to hear bollock’s shit about Valencia. Another project. Sorry Fergie but you won’t have the time to rebuilt a Ronaldo. This is why I was so dissapointed the Ronaldo deal didn’t include Sjeider. That is midfield quality.
As for the Benzema lovers, sorry to break it down to you but while he’s clearly talented, getting 20 goals in Ligue 1 is hardly an accomplishment worthy of being hailed our very own Torres. Forget that crap. As far as I’m concerned, Berbatov is today a better striker than Benzema.
The fans were played for fools with the Ronaldo business. When you pay the prices you pay to go at Old Trafford, you pay to see the best talent available. Let’s see what Sir Alex Ferguson has up his sleeves. At this point, the tickets prices won’t go down because Ronaldo’s gone.
Midfield, for Christ’s sake, is the priority.
June 21st, 2009 at 17:36
@Karl: I think I already made my point and I even offered a very valid compromise. Let the African nation go crazy blowing their brains out with the vuluzeula when South Africa plays but they must remain silent for all the other games. It’s fair and allows the nation to participate and cheer the way they feel like doing so for their own team. However, if I am watching Germany playing Italy or England vs Japan, I do not feel that it is fair to those nations and the millions of viewers tuning into those games having to be overdosed on South African traditions like the vuluzuela which for me is nothing more than a utensil for annoyance. FIFA has already come out and said they will be banning it from the World Cup so I am not alone here in my disgust for the thing. South Africa will just have to learn how to be “joyful” in other ways. I’m sure they will come up with something that doesn’t great on the ears and nerves like that ridiculous and childish noise maker. May I suggest clapping and cheering for starters.
June 21st, 2009 at 17:48
@Craig Mc: Well said. He’s saying all the right things as well as taking the blame for the way this year long transfer mess took place by placing the blame on his shoulders. I accept his reasons for leaving and also appreciate what he said about Fergie and the United fans and their support for him. I especially love the fact he said he would never play for another English club other than United. This may not seem like a big deal but you never know what could happen in Madrid. I think the Madrid move will end up coming back to haunt him. I think he will see the dirty side and ugly side of football and he will regret the day he decided to make the move to Real. It’s not just that he won’t win anything substantial with them, it’s that he will end up in the middle of all the controversies between the club and media and the manager and player. Their new manager and Ronny will end up like another Riquelme affair, but for different reasons. Riquleme was gifted but lazy. Ronaldo is gifted but selfish and egotistical. Eventually something will give. I seriously believe that Ronaldo will regret the day he left United. It may not happen but I really believe it will. Real Madrid is nothing close to having a stable career and balanced life. In northern England he had that. If he thought the English media was bad, now he has been dropped into the shark tank with a bloody nose.
June 21st, 2009 at 17:52
@colver: That just confirms why I have a lot of respect for Wenger when it comes to judging talent. Don’t get me wrong, I hate Arsenal and the Voyeur but he knows his talent. Melo is fantastic in terms of his intensity, range and ability to command respect and intimidate. He’s also no slouch on the ball. It’s too bad Fergie does not notice this young man because he is another Vieira, of that I am convinced. But I will fall short of comparing him to Keano. Nobody but nobody can ever compare to Keane and Cantona.
I would also like us to go after wither Douglas Costa or Alex Sanchez and would die for Hernanes
June 21st, 2009 at 18:02
@Man-U-Cho: Well I’m sorry for you mate but football is a billion dollar plus a year business with many more countries participating than just South Africa. I have mentioned earlier that my compromise to the controversy is to allow the vuluzuela for the South African games only. That could be three games for sure and up to seven if we suffer from delusions of grandeur. I feel this is more than fair. It does not handcuff South Africa from cheering on their team in their traditionally irritating way. Other than that, Germans, Italians, English, Dutch, Brazilians etc should not have to be subjected to the irritating habits of South Africa. South Africa is a beautiful and culturally rich countyry. My best friend has roots from there so I am far from being racially or culturally insensitive here. I am saying that the South African football fans use a devise to cheer for their team that is highly distracting and annoying to visitors and to millions if not billions watching the World Cup on tv. All we want to do is watch a football match, not be subjected to a swarm of bees making noise in our tv sets. So please understand the technical problems this devise causes. It emanates a noise that is highly offensive to the ears and mind and because of that and because of the potential of FIFA losing millions in advertising revenue as well as millions of viewers, the thing has to go. Sometimes life isn’t fair. But I think South Africa can show the world many other forms of cultural quality and togetherness and they will realize that they do not need the noise of a plastic horn to make their case around the world.
June 21st, 2009 at 18:17
i m from argentina but i love united! i am surprise by carlito’s answer. But they treated him ver bad… Gill is a business man , he dont know nothing about football. I m from river but i think tevez is the only profesional player that play with the heart, and you lost it… naaa or you are stupid or you dont know nothing . (sorry for my english)
June 21st, 2009 at 18:58
@Grognard: Grognard, other than this post, I am not going to argue with you on this anymore. I don’t see why I should try to convince you of what I would term ‘cultural intolerance’. (Before you get upset, please note, I am not calling you a racist by any means. I know you’re not.). This is a matter that we would have to take up with FIFA.
As Man-U-Cho said, FIFA can rather take away the World Cup than expect us to betray our Africanism. Should they ban the vuvuzela, I for one will smuggle one into the stadium. On a side note, I already have very little respect for FIFA (and Sepp Blatter in particular) for the way they immorally robbed SA of WC2006.
If people are worried about ‘their teams’ being subjected to this “traditionally irritating” athmosphere, then perhaps they should consider filling the stadiums themselves to ensure that there are no Africans there. Btw, it is not only in SA that you get this. Have you ever been to a game on the continent? If you think the vuvuzela is intimidating, wait till you here the drums.
Football in Africa is different from football in any other part of the world. I admire every African team that manages to qualify for the World Cup. You have no idea what they had to go through to get there. In Africa, football is much more than just a billion dollar sport.
FIFA should also learn, billion dollar industry or not, you don’t go into someone else’s house and tell them how to live their lives in their house.
In cricket and rugby, vuvuzelas don’t feature as much, but brass-bands and trumpets do. How come no one has complained about that? Not all football fans can afford trumpets.
“Other than that, Germans, Italians, English, Dutch, Brazilians etc should not have to be subjected to the irritating habits of South Africa”
(Political statement) – For years, Africans have been subjected to the irritating habits of “European” nations. We had to learn to bear and Respect it. Why can’t they?
“So please understand the technical problems this devise causes”
Africa has been broadcasting football for years without experiencing any technical difficulties with this device. There were no related technical problems reported during the CAF cup that we hosted. I don’t know where you get that impression.
You will do youself a massive favour by visiting SA yourself. It is a beautiful country with beautiful people, and will ensure you a beautifully rich cultural experience. Try to understand the culture before you pass judgement. This is something that someone cannot convey to you (not even a best friend). You have to experience it.
“But I think South Africa can show the world many other forms of cultural quality and togetherness and they will realize that they do not need the noise of a plastic horn to make their case around the world.”
We don’t have to show the world jack. To keep things into perspective, where have you ever heard of a country that gained its independance through mere singing? That was what the ’struggle’ was all about. I think that is more than enough to ‘make a case around the world’.
June 21st, 2009 at 19:04
@Fred The Red: Toulalan is actually the real-life model of none other than Splinter Cell’s Sam Fisher.
Seriously though, I never was too impressed at the lad. He’s a good DM, but he seems slow and and overly cautious in everything he does. He’ll bring next to zero contribution in offense, so for a DM, I would expect him to be bloody world class at his job, of which I’m not even sure.
Essien, Makelele, Gattuso he isn’t…
June 21st, 2009 at 19:14
@Karl: I think brass bands and trumpets are infinitely less annoying to the human ear than something that’s not too different from the buzzing of bees.
I won’t pass any judgement on this, but you just have to read the comments on this post, to see how this issue completely divide opinion. You have for and against in equal numbers which probably means both points of view can be fairly genuine. Don’t read the main article, I think the author doesn’t go the right way in making his point.
June 21st, 2009 at 19:15
@Zauberlehrling: Agree midfield is the part of our team that looks very average, can we really say our strikers are so bad. No we cant, our goal keeper is in need of replacements but is pretty solid on the whole, the defence is top class, and the strikers are still world class. Why can nobody who goes on about buying benzema think we need some midfielders first.
If your being honest we need a goal scoring midfielder and a defensive general, a complete change of our midfield is needed, sadly fergie has his favourites there though and he wont for a second think of bringin in players to start over his carricks, scholes, giggs and fletchers cos they are his favourites.
A midfielder should be our first signing, forget benzema, forget valencia, fergie take your fingers from up your ass, open your eyes and bring someone in there, cos im telling you our midfield is looking so bad if spurs end up getting a robben in their team their midfield will look better than ours. Robben, modric, palacios and lennon or park, fletcher, carrick and valencia, i know which midfield i would prefer and it aint ours.
But oh well im not the manager, sure lets buy benzema and when hes on 6 goals by xmas and people are shaking their heads wondering why he aint scoring, just think maybe its not the strikers but cos of our crappy midfield and our lack of a player like a sniejder.
June 21st, 2009 at 19:15
Just reading this thread and saw the debate about zuzukele or whatever the South African trumpets are called. Funny, 4 days back I thought about menioning this here but never got to do it.
In Mauritius, supersport gives us plenty of opportunity to watch SA football, but I have to say I’ve never caught on to a single footbball match mainly because of the trumpet blowing. It is utterly frustrating and while its good to respect culture and all, I say that this doesn’t bode well for the forthcoming World Cup. Maybe the oganisers do not want to tinkle with such sensitive things, but my guess is that the trumpet playing can ultimately severely affect the broadcasting audiences.
Fifa, and the SA organisers I’m sure wouldnt want the WC to end up being a semi-flop because of it.
June 21st, 2009 at 19:18
@Karl: While we are at it, lets ban popcorn from cinemas cause its annoying having to people leaving kernels behind which get stuck in the threads of my shoes.
lets also ban the whistling against players who the home crowd doesnt like, cause its annoying and i cant tell when the ref’s whistle is actually being blown
also, lets ban annoying opposition fans just cause their singing is drowning out our singing… lets ban everything annoying! woohoo!
or maybe we should just ban the concept of personal and cultural freedom… im no african, but i am also not sepp blatter….
personally tho, i am on your side in this
June 21st, 2009 at 19:26
@Red Ranter: Just want to comment on this before I read the article.
“I think brass bands and trumpets are infinitely less annoying to the human ear than something that’s not too different from the buzzing of bees.”
I am a musician. I have heard many trumpets and brass bands that are Very annoying to the human ear. How can the buzzing of bees be so annoying to the human ear? It is nature. I agree that it can be annoying to the person due to experiences, but not to the human ear.
I made an experience once going to Caprivi at the Zambezi river. When we performed ‘western art music’, the locals did not really enjoy it, and found it also somewhat annoying at times. They had a complete turnaround when we started playing drums and singing African folk music. The point I’m trying to make is that the annoyance is based on cultural differences.
But, as I said. I’m not going to elaborate on this anymore. Re-reading my post(s), I already seem like a political activist. For this, I want to apologise to you and all the bloggers.
June 21st, 2009 at 19:28
@Karl: Well said Karl. Call me biast, as a Ghanaian, but I dont see any wrong in it.
June 21st, 2009 at 19:33
@Grognard: I totally agree about Hernanes, he would be a sweet aquisition. SAF should have snapped him up instead of Anderson, but that’s just 20/20 hindsight.
My big concern is that he has not played in Europe yet, and that could effect his creative style, and his cultural well-being. He would certainly be a good gamble for around 15m.
June 21st, 2009 at 19:38
@Karl: There is nothing wrong with political activism, and you have nothing to apologize for.
It’s your opinion to state, but don’t expect anyone to agree with it!!
June 21st, 2009 at 19:45
@Redrich: Thanks Redrich. I was feeling a bit guilty about it.
You’re right. I think deep down inside, I expect the ‘against’ party to agree with it. Like you said, I need to realise it is just my opinion.
Thanks Edwin.
June 21st, 2009 at 20:05
To Matt:
Of course, midfield is the biggest hole we have. Since SAF obviously knew Ronaldo would depart, I think the buying of Berbatov was in prevision of this reconstruction. Last year was irrelevant as far as Berbatov’s buying goes. I remember SAF saying people didn’t fully appreciate the Bulgarian’s ability to link with the midfield. Maybe this is all part of the new United Fergie envisions. Who knows?
The problem of that logic is: you have no midfield to link with! I full agree that we need an attacking midfielder (which makes it even more frustrating Sneijder was not included in the Ronaldo deal.) There are others but the teams having them are reluctant to let them go or you’ll end up overpaying.
The goaltending needs to be adressed, of course, but I can’t help but think this is going to be a transitional season. That can’t please SAF since his reign is about to end and he obviously wants to win another league championship to put those ‘poolers to rest.
All we can do is wait.
June 21st, 2009 at 20:14
Whats everyones opinion on Luis Fabiano and pirlo joining us?? Luis fabiano wouldnt mind playing 2nd fiddle to berbatov and rooney (i would imagine
) and by the time mechada and wellbeck had matured hed be gone. Pirlo mught be for sale if milan are looking to restructure there midfield with the sale of kaka. Hes better than carrick and Fletcher and is the world class cm we need imo.
June 21st, 2009 at 20:17
brazil is owning italy its not even a contest
June 21st, 2009 at 20:27
RedRanter could I please refer you to comment 156 on this thread a completely personal attack by Dan on me. I am completely sick of him being so rude whenever he disagrees with a comment I make. I just about have put up with him misrepresenting my arguments all this year and making sarcastic comments, snide remarks and his infamous eye rolling smiley. But comment 156 is just taking it way too far.
June 21st, 2009 at 20:37
Brazil making light work of Italy here, its embarassing to call those folks “world champions”. Hoping for a more balanced second half
June 21st, 2009 at 20:53
@Bute: Tevez behaviour has not been professional AT ALL. He has been whining continuallt to the press, criticising the way the club does things, and the Manager who has proved in the top managers in the world. Moaning about being disrespected, but he was the one disrespecting the club and manager through the press. Complaining about sitting on the bench, yest he played as many games as other strikers here, with the exception of Ronaldo, and lets face it Ronaldo is in a totally different class to Tevez, a much higher class. Tevez got the offer he has been crying about like a baby, and is slowly but surely turning the fans, who were very much on his side, AGAINST him now. You say he is the most professional footballer, yet true professionals don’t behave like he did, running to the media every few minutes. He is Joorabchian’s slave, and always will be!
June 21st, 2009 at 21:05
@Craig Mc: for someone who finds it “very difficult” to say things in english, he sure did say alot tho
June 21st, 2009 at 21:12
@Aymen: I don’t see anything negatiove in what is coming out of Ronaldo’s mouth towards the fans, in fact he is saying the Man Utd fans helped him during the horrible time following the world cup! Also Ronaldo didn’t PRETEND at all from the beginning that he eventually wanted to go to Madrid, so don’t know what you are on about mate!
As for Tevez not calling the fans, you mean those Rent a Mob misguided United Tevez fans, who BOO-ED Sir Alex, and ruined and interrupted his PL victory speech. I suppose you are one of those fans who believed that Tevez is not going to Looserpool out of respect for United fans? Like anybody believes that – he is not going to Looserpool because they didn’t have the money to meet his demands – greedy lil GIT. Sorry mate, no offense to you, but you will not get me supporting Tevez in view of his bad mouthing OUR club and Manager thru all the media channels.
In case you think I am biased to Ronaldo, well you should go back thru some of the threads on this board to find the truth. I will always feel though that as a football Ronaldo gave us some extraordinary football and goals out of this world. He far, far, more than Tevez won things for this club, and gave us 6 really good footballing years. The other side of Ronaldo though, I hate!
June 21st, 2009 at 21:19
@colver: Colver I agree with you mate. We need a no nonsense player, who will go in hard to win the ball. Roy Keane was a feckin nutcase a lot of the time, and so was Viera, but teams need players like them. So if this guy is a good in the tackle, and aggresive as a Keane or Viera, then I am all for going in for him. We need a MF General, to let the fancy dan MF’s know they are in a game
.
June 21st, 2009 at 21:21
@Karl: Ronnie has NO reason to say those things now though mate, has he? So I’m inclined to give the benefit of the doubt.
June 21st, 2009 at 21:29
@Karl: All the networks are not complaining about technical problems mate. They are complaining about not having the technology to mute out that sound and still have ambient sound from the stadium which adds to atmosphere. Be careful when you call be people intolerant. Sure you aren’t calling me racist but if I don’t allow somebody to piss in my back yard, is that me being intolerant. I fail to see how blowing a stupid horn in the game and having that banned for the sake of the millions of viewers of the great game all over the globe is being intolerant. Perhaps you are the one being inconsiderate and intolerant of us and not understanding that your noise maker is rubbing most of us including FIFA and tv the wrong way. I refuse to allow you or any other person to turn the use of a noise maker as a cultural icon and definite element of your society. It isn’t and to feel the necessity to drown us with that crap is very insensitive of your culture towards the rest of us. I equate it to the intolerance I have to the smell of feces and curry. It’s got no place in sports when it ruins the experience for the majority. Use them to your heart’s desire when South Africa is playing but when they are not respect the rest of the worlds right to be spared their awful noise. What a thing to take pride in? Incredible?
Personally, I can’t handle and tolerate the world’s hooligan problem more than this because at least they can be segregated and separated from the rest of us.
June 21st, 2009 at 21:29
FFS, we have had the Ronaldo/Tevez soap opera long running fued, surely we don’t need the African Trumpets/Bugles one
. The World cup is in Africa, and they have their own way of enjoying the game on the terraces. If you don’t want to HEAR the deafening musical instrument/chanting & singing African style, turn the feckin sound down on your TV etc. The Africa world cup will be very colourful to say the least, and I will enjoy the spirit of it, no matter what! 
June 21st, 2009 at 21:31
@Karl:
““Other than that, Germans, Italians, English, Dutch, Brazilians etc should not have to be subjected to the irritating habits of South Africa”
(Political statement) – For years, Africans have been subjected to the irritating habits of “European” nations. We had to learn to bear and Respect it. Why can’t they?”
Like what? We beating the shit out of your pathetic excuse of a football team.
June 21st, 2009 at 21:33
@Grognard: Not nice Grog Bro, not nice
.
June 21st, 2009 at 21:33
@NicoQB: Does that make him stealthy and a killing machine? And wait till you see the new Sam Fischer in the next game. He’s going rogue and taking the gloves off. This time he is kicking ass like Keano.
June 21st, 2009 at 21:35
@NicoQB: FIFA has already come out and said they would ban it’s use. I hope for the sake of South Africa alone, they are allowed to use it for their games. In a sense it is a home field advantage and they need it to get out of their group.
June 21st, 2009 at 21:36
@Wink: Lets ban Wink for his annoying sarcasm.
June 21st, 2009 at 21:38
@colver: Thanks for pointing that out. You’re right. The next time I see another such unreasonable attack by Dan on you I will certainly take action.
@Dan: — I don’t have to spell it out now, do I?
June 21st, 2009 at 21:40
FIFA will ban them. Money is at stake, they aren’t THAT stupid.
June 21st, 2009 at 21:43
@Redrich: The one argument that really gets to me mate when people make it is the old he’’s never played in Europe or he’s never played in England argument. I have news for you. Before they took the big step across the Atlantic, Maradona, Ronaldo, Kaka, Romario, Crespo, and hundreds more great South American players made the big move and they all did just fine. A great footballer is a great footballer. Football is not rocket science. All it’s technical idiosyncrasies are not impossible for a largely uneducated core of players to pick up and execute. So I’m sorry but I do not buy that argument. Sure there is a little period of adjustment to language and culture but a player would have to be completely brain dead or retarded to not grasp the differences and styles of play and adjust. If that argument had any validity behind it, all those great players should never have made their move to Europe as they were all guaranteed failure. But we know differently now don’t we?
June 21st, 2009 at 21:45
@Karl: Mate, you don’t have to apologize to me. I watched the Brazil-Italy game as well as the USA-Egypt game and I didn’t find it as annoying. But I can see why people may find it annoying going by the way it’s sparked debate all over.
Personally, I wouldn’t want to barge into what has always been a tournament that was meant to showcase Africa and its culture. I wouldn’t call on a ban on the vuvuzela, but let me tell you one thing — the constant buzzing, neither goes up nor down whether one scores a goal or not. It doesn’t give the vibe of the match dynamic. However, it’s not a total impediment for me personally. I can live with it.
June 21st, 2009 at 21:50
@ROOOOONEY: Italy right now is where Germany was in 2003. Rock bottom. Their league is a shambles, their national team has depended on the old guard for too long and the young talent coming up for the most part is turning heads. I actually predicted their demise in 2004 because I felt it was only a matter of time before the over saturation of foreign players into Serie A was going to affect their overall national product. It’s happened to Germany and England but it has yet to hit Spain as hard, but that’s coming too. Unless new rules regarding the amount of foreign players per team in individual countries is curtailed, national teams in Europe will suffer.
Italy won the last World Cup because they were benefiting from their last golden age of player development all reaching the right age to make them win. Now they are too old and other than a few really young stars like Macheda and Petrucci and Bolatelli, they have nothing to really be enthusiastic about. And I for one couldn’t be happier because I have been the loudest voice of all when I have claimed that everything that is ugly, dirty and negative about the game of football, got it’s start in Italy. Are you reading this Fergie. Get the hint.
June 21st, 2009 at 21:54
@Grognard: Not everyone adjusts to the English game. The PL is as tough as they come when it comes to competition and the physicality of its play. A skill player from S.America will not get the same time on the ball and will not be protected from rough play by the referees. So in this sense I feel it’s worth considering.
But as I said, he’s an amazing talent, and at around 15m, he would be a very good bet!!
June 21st, 2009 at 22:00
As an addition to the vuvuzela debate, there is a very good article on the vuvuzela, and other noise making instruments used in football on the excellent Pitch Invasion site. If anyone’s interested in reading articles about the evolution of football fan culture, this is for you.
June 21st, 2009 at 22:07
They were invented 10 years ago for Chinese women’s basketball. African heritage my arse. They are a drone, not a musical instrument. Anyone playing one has no interest in the actual football. It was English heritage to smash up France with patio furniture (a history much longer than 10 years), but everyone else found it very annoying and FIFA made us stop. This is no different, infact, it’s probably worse. At least we watched the match first!
June 21st, 2009 at 22:25
@Traverse: Playing a trumpet and hooliganism are not aligned on the same degree of public annoyance!!
June 21st, 2009 at 23:13
for the midfield i never really watched a match where de rossi impressed, but melo today was eye catching, if we dont snatch him this year he will be out of reach with everyone trying to tempt him.
June 21st, 2009 at 23:42
@Redrich: Yeah, one of them is on a much smaller scale, and doesn’t ruin the enjoyment of a football game. The other is a plastic Chinese instrument.
June 21st, 2009 at 23:50
Don’t get me wrong, I’m neither against instruments at football, or African heritage. South Africans can bring all the Shekeres, Koras, Mandolutes and Kalimbas they like. Anything with more than one note, or is a percussion instrument.
But to be honest, we all know the World Cup tickets are going to be priced out of the range of the average South African by the hive mind of FIFA and their sponsors….
June 21st, 2009 at 23:53
Also, this from the internet..
“An unnamed English Premier League club has been bought by a member of the ruling family in the United Arab Emirates, according to the WAM news agency.”
I hope it’s us
June 22nd, 2009 at 0:24
Also, in possibly Benzema related news, Lyon have made a bid for PSG striker Guillaume Hoarau….
June 22nd, 2009 at 1:44
@Craig Mc: yea im thinking that we may have had the 26m clause so we could buy someone early and then if the deal went south… we would still be able to afford the player. but no one came. maby cuz of the prez shit? idk?
fingers crossed hargo makes it back we need him bad.
with him back and brown back our gk will have an easier job this season.
I seriously would like to see us blood welbeck and kiko this year and with the addition of valencia and some of the young Brazilian mfs weve been linked to for cover… we still have a great team
evs
brown,vida,ferd,evra
nani,hargo/fletch,ando/carrick,valincia
roony,berba
but what if we’re getting benzema is berba going to be the “link to the midfield” are we putting him in a diamond like
evs
brown,vida,ferd,evra
hargo
nani/park,valincia/wellbeck(trading out for def and offensive prowess)
berba
benz,roon
looks good but does berba move enough to be a cm?
i would go for david silva or aguero before benzema but he is class.
June 22nd, 2009 at 2:53
@Traverse: Bad news.
Just like Bayern do in the Bundesliga, Lyon always get the best players of Ligue 1 just before they get known across footballing fans and media.
I’ve been mentioning Hoarau as the next great striker to come from Ligue 1 for some time now. Wouldn’t surprise me if in two years Chelsea comes knocking on with a 30 million cheque at the ready. An United getting interested but late as always…
Damn I should be working as a scout.
June 22nd, 2009 at 4:04
@Karl: You and Grog both have good points, but SA does have an obligation to the world seeing that they are hosting a World event. If you competed for and were awarded the right to host a party, and over 50% of your guest were vegetarians or simply detested the taste of the meat, would you serve only meat? Unless an asshole, probably not.
Its a fair compromise to allow the vuluzela at SA games, but ban them from other matches if that’s the wish of a majority of the attending audience.
The players, too, who already have to contend with assimulating to the weather should have a voice. Many teams have complained that is distracting and does nothing for the atmosphere, so why should they be subject to it unless they are playing against SA,?
I’m more concerned with Africa successfully hosting its first World Cup than I am with offending a nation over horns. It would be petty of SA to make this an explosive issue. The country certainly does not need attention for the wrong reasons. frankly, it’s a small sacrifice to make for the honor of hosting the biggest sporting event on the planet.
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:10
@Roge9: The spotlight has apparently focused itself on the example of the attending fans and their propensity to blow horns. I grew up in a culture that found it difficult to except anything other than the prevailing trend of crowd misbehavior!
While compromise is certainly an option, the idea of this, in any way, being an detraction from the 2010 event itself , has a tinge of elitism attached to it. We, the all knowing gods of the footballing northern hemisphere, have parlayed and determined that the blowing of the V-horn hurts our pink little ears and could indeed, jeopardize our languid enjoyment of the 2010 WC.
If I was SA’n or part of the organising committee, I’d be blowing my horn too, and saying to FIFA, “we’ll do it the way we’ve always done it!”. And when they say you wont get the WC again I’d simply reply with the example of England 1966 – 2018(maybe).
When I first came to the US I didn’t like the barrel organ introducing the next batter, but I got over it too!!
However, if the Zulu’s start rattling their spears against their shields at half time, that would do it for me!!
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:41
@Roge9: But hes 25, thats a striker hitting his prime.
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:51
Don’t worry lads. United will surprise all of us with a big signing. I wouldn’t want to mention any names but i am pretty sure SAF has got the player he wanted already in his mind. Patience..
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:12
New post up. I’m off to bed. Good night/morning/afternoon/evening wherever you all are.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:19
I went to Old Trafford not too long ago. As this was a Sunday, I really were looking forward to have a relaxing afternoon, after a very difficult week at work, and the fact that is a real expensive experience to watch a game at OT for me. All I wanted to do was to watch a game, eat my prawn sandwiches and politely clap whenever United scored a goal. But, alas, can you imagine my frustrations due to my annoyance with the constant singing and barging of some uncultured ‘drunk’ supporters? I think they were more focused on having a sing-off with the opposition supporters in the stadium that I’m sure they were not even interested in the game. At the end of that game, I had a headache of such magnituted from these constant noises, that I swore I would never ever go to a live game again. Why can’t these noisy, uncultured supporters be more considerate? Why can’t they take a cue from the good natured golf supporters?
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:24
Another twist in BENZEMA story…
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11667_5395123,00.html
Apparently his agent is saying that he is staying put with LYON for another year….
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:32
damn, I haven’t been here in ages..
I know he’s 27, (and thus against the over-26 “rule”) but what do you all think of Zlatan Ibrahimovic? can he and Berbatov play together up front?
The only reason I bring this up, is because Rooney finally said at the end of the season that he’d rather play in the hole behind the strikers, but SAF kept fucking playing him wide (I never got that). It’s a ballsy move to make, but i see it possibly working out.
I see mainly two advantages to this.
1. Ibrahimovic and Berbatov are both 27-8 ish.
Never mind the fact that they’re both fairly skilled at linking up play as well as 20+ goal scorers, these two players will be at their peak for the next 2-4 years, just in time for them to transition with Welbeck, Mecheda, Pettruci etc. who are all still 17-18 year olds. IMO, they’d be in the mold of Ole and Sherringham, except they’d be starting the majority of the games.
beyond that.. come on, the potential beautiful football that those two players teamed up would produce?? mouth-watering.
2. We’ll finally play Rooney in the “Gerrard/Lapmard” role that he’s been supposed to play but hasn’t ever since Rudd left.
Imagine the following lineup..
———————GK————————
——————Back Four——————–
-Nani——–Carrick/Hargo—/Hargo/Anderson–
——————Rooney———————
—-Berba——————Ibra—————
Not only does this strengthen our midfield by having Rooney as an ACM, but it’s also easy to revert to a traditional 4-4-2 by subbing off one of Berba/Rooney/Ibra and bringing on a wide player.
Mind you, for me, this 4-3-1-2 probably only works well if you have overlapping attacking defenders like Rafael and Evra giving the extra width, and I’d only be comfortable with them overlapping if we have players like Hargreaves, Anderson, Fletcher, Park, and even Rooney who can cover for them if neccessary.
—–
Suddenly, the midfield goes from a weakness to a strength, with 3 midfield slots to fill with Carrick, Anderson, Nani, and Hargreaves (not to mention Park and Fletcher… or Giggsy and Scholes for that matter) we have a fairly talented, industrious midfield.
Of course, this is all meaningless drivel if Zlatan Ibrahimovic is/turns out to be shite..
but enough from me, what say you all?
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:35
@Karl: golf supporters are annoying haha
I mean.. who has the time to actually go and watch golf? do they pay to see it? I have no idea
June 22nd, 2009 at 15:32
@Redrich: Elitism hs nothing to do with it. The v-horn produces an annoying sound;this wouldnt be an issue if it didnt. And when I came to America, I hated baseball….I continune to hate it, so you know what i do? I avoid it like a plague, similar to what many people will end up doing over a horn.
June 22nd, 2009 at 18:45
@Karl: Thank God we millions watching the game couldn’t hear how they annoying they were at OT. Can you imagine that kind of noise grating on the nerves coming out of your tv set? It’s like every other stadium in Europe, Asia and North and South America, 99% of the planet react and cheer like fans at Old Trafford. Just ban them all from the stands. God knows they have to be as abusive and as ignorant as a spec of the world population who continue to blow noise from a horn using their mouths when really, they should all insert it up their asses.
Sorry mate for being harsh but your point has absolutely no validity at all as the noise of people singing is like music to the ears of billions around the world and cannot be compared unfavorably to the sound of a blasted instrument that sounds like a swarm of bees attacking one dangly bits. This has nothing to do with culture, it has to do with something that is just annoying and abrasive to the masses. Live with it. Somehow I think South Africa will survive without it and will continue to grow as a people and a culture. I think your case for it is a bit over the top and over dramatic.