Jun 20
Breaking down the United-Tevez-Kia tug of war
So it has come to pass. Manchester United have announced that Carlos Tevez has decided to reject United’s offer to make his loan move permanent. Here’s the statement:
Following contact received from Carlos Tevez’s advisors last night, in advance of the deadline the Club set for concluding negotiations, Manchester United announces that Carlos will not be signing a new contract with the Club. The Club agreed to pay the option price of £25.5m and offered Carlos a five-year contract which would have made him one of its highest paid players. Disappointingly however, his advisors informed the Club that, despite the success he has enjoyed during one of the Club’s most successful periods, he does not wish to continue playing for Manchester United. The Club would like to thank Carlos for his services over the last two seasons and wishes him good luck for the future.
As drab as official statements usually go, it does confirm the word going around that United did indeed offer the option price of £25.5m for Tevez. It confirms that our option price was £25.5m. That price, since it was known by the club for a while now, was clearly excessive in my opinion — which is why David Gill was perhaps hoping, over time, to haggle with Kia Joorabchian to bring his price down.
Now, there is a valid case to be made about the treatment meted out by the club towards Tevez. But, whilst Tevez gave everything he could on the pitch, his attitude off it needed to be questioned. I understood his frustration at being marginalised at the club by Fergie upon Berbatov’s arrival, and excused him when he went public about it in a radio interview in South America, back in December. I was willing to understand his point of view when he again did it in February/March. But he kept doing this as the season wound up towards its closing stages; his reaction upon scoring the goal against City; him playing the victim card using the massive fan support as a stick to beat the club with made me wonder what he’s really upto.
What shocked me was the willingness of the fans to boo Ferguson when he substituted Tevez, and even drown out the manager’s address to the crowd. What the hell were they thinking?
Following the Tevez deal cancellation announcement, Kia Joorabchian clarified his side of things:
“When Man United made their offer about ten days ago, for the first time in two years, we never went back to them to ask about money. We just asked for some time to think about it. Obviously they have had two years to think about it and Carlos had to make a decision based on his family. Just to make it clear, this has been Carlos’ decision. Nobody else would make this decision for him. We didn’t actually reject the offer. Manchester United have ruled themselves out of the running. We actually asked for more time and if they could not give that we would have to walk away. He wants time to digest it and to know which club would suit him because now he is committing the next five years of his future.”
Now this makes little sense to me. Joorabchian said that Tevez needed more time to think this over. But, ironically, it was Tevez who went public on two things:
1. that he always wanted to stay at United, and it was United that didn’t seem to want him. He in fact said that he’d sign up in a flash had they offered him a deal, not too long ago.
2. that he ruled out Spain and feels settled in England, and liked the fact that his daughter feels happy growing up in England.
Kia’s suggestion seems to contradict these two points because it makes it seem like Tevez actually feels the need for time to decide between United and City, when it doesn’t even involve moving house. He says he needed time to figure out which team would suit him. But is there even a choice to be made between City and United? Sure, he’ll get more starts in City, but would it meet his ambition right now?
He says his close relationship with the fans meant that he wouldn’t go to Liverpool, but Kia also mentioned Chelsea as an option. Now a Chelsea move wouldn’t infuriate United fans as much as had he moved to Liverpool, but they still are a title rival and to me, that would certainly disappoint. City, not being a threat at present wouldn’t present the same challenge. Also I doubt he can be assured of starts even in Chelsea, something that’s been a thorny issue for him at United.
But leave all that aside. Joorabchian goes on to add:
“If it was, let’s say, Wayne Rooney’s contract finishing six months before, or Cristiano Ronaldo’s contract finishing six months before, would they have tried to secure their services a bit sooner? He has that little bit of a feeling that maybe he wasn’t the most wanted person at United. Rightly or wrongly, that’s how he feels.”
Now regarding Wayne Rooney and Ronaldo there is a major difference. Regardless of who the player is, if the club owned the player, they are never going to let his contract run down. In Tevez’s case, we never owned him, so it wasn’t a bad idea to see how he performs over the season to ensure he’s worth his asking price.
It now hits me, and shocks me that United actually offered £25.5m and Tevez might have actually accepted it. This is over the £9m that it cost to bring him to the club on loan. Tevez is a really good player, but certainly not world class, which is what those sums of money dictate. My mind boggles if I think about how we would have bought a striker that might do a lot of running and grafting but isn’t really a better player than Rooney or Ronaldo. And for a striker that demands such transfer fees, he would have to score a lot of goals to justify it.
I find it sad it had to end like this. But I can’t say I’m too sad to see him go. I would have found it hard to wrap my head around overpaying for a good player. I am actually glad United showed some urgency in enforcing the strict deadline to show that they need to resolve this issue before sorting out the squad for the next season.
Here’s hoping for the same decisiveness whilst dipping into the transfer market.
On Tevez, we sincerely wish him the best of luck, as long as he doesn’t score against us. (It’s nice to see he had the good sense to reject the cesspool; we’ll grant him that.)
Related items from Red Rants:
- Twists Galore as Tevez Saga Continues
- Manutd.com: Reds Announce Tevez Capture
- Manchester United Sign Tevez?
- High Court Comes to Tevez’s Rescue
- Tevez Update: Is a Solution Finally In Sight?
Tags: Manchester United News · Manchester United Players
Opti (541)
RedDevilEddy (459)
Stephen (454)
Craig Mc (344)
Moscow is my heaven (272)
@colver: itd not unfair in the slightest, joey barton is aggressive, so should he play for united> NO!, because hes not good enough. Like i give shit who arsene wanker is linked with, hes won shit all for 5 years now!
Cattermole, barton, guthrie, nolan, andrews, davies, all in your face players that like to get booked, none of them good enough for united.
Your argument has no weight to it.
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@Rd: I’d rather we aired on the side of caution and wait until October so he is 100% fighting fit.
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Dan my argument is he is aggressive AND good enough to play for United. As for Wenger he’s got a good eye for central midfielders: Fabregas, Gilberto Silva, Flamini, Viera. All signed by him and good players. I see aggression as a virtue if it is controlled and directed. Our current midfield just let Barca walk all over them without even putting up a fight. Someone like Keane would have never allowed that to happen. OK Melo is nowhere near as good as Keane but he has some of Keane’s qualities and I believe he is an improvement on the likes of Anderson and Fletcher.
I think if your central midfielders aren’t getting any cards at all it is because they are not getting stuck in enough. The nature of the game is that if you make some challenges you will occasionally get carded. Im not advocating wild crazy tackles or pointless confrontations like the guys you mentioned are guilty of. But Melo isn’t like that.
Of course you would rather put all our hopes in Ljajic who should still be in school, and Gibson who despite his advanced age is still incredibly average.
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@colver: Because a year out of football and 2 major operations = getting better miraculously
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@colver: Right i quote, “You look at his disciplinary record and you see he has all the makings of another Keane or Viera. No-one would mess with him and that would give room for Carrick to operate.” you never said anything about him being a good player, you just said he gets loads of cards which means he must be as good as viera or keane
Owen hargreaves has never gotten a red card in his career, he was apart of CL winning side. I guess that proves your theory of getting reds and yellows make you a better player as complete and utter bollocks!
And i would much rather put my faith in ljajic and gibson, at least i know what id be getting, not some idiot who likes to get himself booked.
FYI, ljajic is a winger/second striker, that can play CAM, not a CM/CDM. Shows how much you know about the lad.
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@Traverse: dont pay him any attention, this guy breathes bollocks of the highest testicle.
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http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/manchester_united/s/1121791_fergie_closes_in_on_benzema
So they say we’re “closing in” on benzema, setanta say hes “heading to united,” but neither article give concrete evidence that we’ve even put a bid in let alone close to signing him
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http://rescindedred.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/foto_606.jpg
http://www.nypost.com/seven/07092008/photos/news008a.jpg
El bruno?
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How can United prevail with such a shitty midfield? It’s all well and good to imagine getting a striker getting 30 goals but then that is a very uneducated opinion. If the Barcelona crapfest teached us anything it’s that a ambivalent midfield is the way to go.
An efficient midfield will break open any defences and good service will ensure that even a Benny McCarthy would manage 15 goals per season. To be the best, you have to compare with the best. Scholes, Carrick, Park or Giggs are not (or no longer) world class quality. To aspire to be the best, you need a Gerrard (Liverpool), Lampard (Chelsea), Iniesta (Barcelona), Kakà or Ronaldo (Real Madrid). It is as simple as that.
And I don’t want to hear bollock’s shit about Valencia. Another project. Sorry Fergie but you won’t have the time to rebuilt a Ronaldo. This is why I was so dissapointed the Ronaldo deal didn’t include Sjeider. That is midfield quality.
As for the Benzema lovers, sorry to break it down to you but while he’s clearly talented, getting 20 goals in Ligue 1 is hardly an accomplishment worthy of being hailed our very own Torres. Forget that crap. As far as I’m concerned, Berbatov is today a better striker than Benzema.
The fans were played for fools with the Ronaldo business. When you pay the prices you pay to go at Old Trafford, you pay to see the best talent available. Let’s see what Sir Alex Ferguson has up his sleeves. At this point, the tickets prices won’t go down because Ronaldo’s gone.
Midfield, for Christ’s sake, is the priority.
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@Karl: I think I already made my point and I even offered a very valid compromise. Let the African nation go crazy blowing their brains out with the vuluzeula when South Africa plays but they must remain silent for all the other games. It’s fair and allows the nation to participate and cheer the way they feel like doing so for their own team. However, if I am watching Germany playing Italy or England vs Japan, I do not feel that it is fair to those nations and the millions of viewers tuning into those games having to be overdosed on South African traditions like the vuluzuela which for me is nothing more than a utensil for annoyance. FIFA has already come out and said they will be banning it from the World Cup so I am not alone here in my disgust for the thing. South Africa will just have to learn how to be “joyful” in other ways. I’m sure they will come up with something that doesn’t great on the ears and nerves like that ridiculous and childish noise maker. May I suggest clapping and cheering for starters.
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@Craig Mc: Well said. He’s saying all the right things as well as taking the blame for the way this year long transfer mess took place by placing the blame on his shoulders. I accept his reasons for leaving and also appreciate what he said about Fergie and the United fans and their support for him. I especially love the fact he said he would never play for another English club other than United. This may not seem like a big deal but you never know what could happen in Madrid. I think the Madrid move will end up coming back to haunt him. I think he will see the dirty side and ugly side of football and he will regret the day he decided to make the move to Real. It’s not just that he won’t win anything substantial with them, it’s that he will end up in the middle of all the controversies between the club and media and the manager and player. Their new manager and Ronny will end up like another Riquelme affair, but for different reasons. Riquleme was gifted but lazy. Ronaldo is gifted but selfish and egotistical. Eventually something will give. I seriously believe that Ronaldo will regret the day he left United. It may not happen but I really believe it will. Real Madrid is nothing close to having a stable career and balanced life. In northern England he had that. If he thought the English media was bad, now he has been dropped into the shark tank with a bloody nose.
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@colver: That just confirms why I have a lot of respect for Wenger when it comes to judging talent. Don’t get me wrong, I hate Arsenal and the Voyeur but he knows his talent. Melo is fantastic in terms of his intensity, range and ability to command respect and intimidate. He’s also no slouch on the ball. It’s too bad Fergie does not notice this young man because he is another Vieira, of that I am convinced. But I will fall short of comparing him to Keano. Nobody but nobody can ever compare to Keane and Cantona.
I would also like us to go after wither Douglas Costa or Alex Sanchez and would die for Hernanes
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@Man-U-Cho: Well I’m sorry for you mate but football is a billion dollar plus a year business with many more countries participating than just South Africa. I have mentioned earlier that my compromise to the controversy is to allow the vuluzuela for the South African games only. That could be three games for sure and up to seven if we suffer from delusions of grandeur. I feel this is more than fair. It does not handcuff South Africa from cheering on their team in their traditionally irritating way. Other than that, Germans, Italians, English, Dutch, Brazilians etc should not have to be subjected to the irritating habits of South Africa. South Africa is a beautiful and culturally rich countyry. My best friend has roots from there so I am far from being racially or culturally insensitive here. I am saying that the South African football fans use a devise to cheer for their team that is highly distracting and annoying to visitors and to millions if not billions watching the World Cup on tv. All we want to do is watch a football match, not be subjected to a swarm of bees making noise in our tv sets. So please understand the technical problems this devise causes. It emanates a noise that is highly offensive to the ears and mind and because of that and because of the potential of FIFA losing millions in advertising revenue as well as millions of viewers, the thing has to go. Sometimes life isn’t fair. But I think South Africa can show the world many other forms of cultural quality and togetherness and they will realize that they do not need the noise of a plastic horn to make their case around the world.
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i m from argentina but i love united! i am surprise by carlito’s answer. But they treated him ver bad… Gill is a business man , he dont know nothing about football. I m from river but i think tevez is the only profesional player that play with the heart, and you lost it… naaa or you are stupid or you dont know nothing . (sorry for my english)
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@Grognard: Grognard, other than this post, I am not going to argue with you on this anymore. I don’t see why I should try to convince you of what I would term ‘cultural intolerance’. (Before you get upset, please note, I am not calling you a racist by any means. I know you’re not.). This is a matter that we would have to take up with FIFA.
As Man-U-Cho said, FIFA can rather take away the World Cup than expect us to betray our Africanism. Should they ban the vuvuzela, I for one will smuggle one into the stadium. On a side note, I already have very little respect for FIFA (and Sepp Blatter in particular) for the way they immorally robbed SA of WC2006.
If people are worried about ‘their teams’ being subjected to this “traditionally irritating” athmosphere, then perhaps they should consider filling the stadiums themselves to ensure that there are no Africans there. Btw, it is not only in SA that you get this. Have you ever been to a game on the continent? If you think the vuvuzela is intimidating, wait till you here the drums.
Football in Africa is different from football in any other part of the world. I admire every African team that manages to qualify for the World Cup. You have no idea what they had to go through to get there. In Africa, football is much more than just a billion dollar sport.
FIFA should also learn, billion dollar industry or not, you don’t go into someone else’s house and tell them how to live their lives in their house.
In cricket and rugby, vuvuzelas don’t feature as much, but brass-bands and trumpets do. How come no one has complained about that? Not all football fans can afford trumpets.
“Other than that, Germans, Italians, English, Dutch, Brazilians etc should not have to be subjected to the irritating habits of South Africa”
(Political statement) – For years, Africans have been subjected to the irritating habits of “European” nations. We had to learn to bear and Respect it. Why can’t they?
“So please understand the technical problems this devise causes”
Africa has been broadcasting football for years without experiencing any technical difficulties with this device. There were no related technical problems reported during the CAF cup that we hosted. I don’t know where you get that impression.
You will do youself a massive favour by visiting SA yourself. It is a beautiful country with beautiful people, and will ensure you a beautifully rich cultural experience. Try to understand the culture before you pass judgement. This is something that someone cannot convey to you (not even a best friend). You have to experience it.
“But I think South Africa can show the world many other forms of cultural quality and togetherness and they will realize that they do not need the noise of a plastic horn to make their case around the world.”
We don’t have to show the world jack. To keep things into perspective, where have you ever heard of a country that gained its independance through mere singing? That was what the ‘struggle’ was all about. I think that is more than enough to ‘make a case around the world’.
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@Fred The Red: Toulalan is actually the real-life model of none other than Splinter Cell’s Sam Fisher.
Seriously though, I never was too impressed at the lad. He’s a good DM, but he seems slow and and overly cautious in everything he does. He’ll bring next to zero contribution in offense, so for a DM, I would expect him to be bloody world class at his job, of which I’m not even sure.
Essien, Makelele, Gattuso he isn’t…
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@Karl: I think brass bands and trumpets are infinitely less annoying to the human ear than something that’s not too different from the buzzing of bees.
I won’t pass any judgement on this, but you just have to read the comments on this post, to see how this issue completely divide opinion. You have for and against in equal numbers which probably means both points of view can be fairly genuine. Don’t read the main article, I think the author doesn’t go the right way in making his point.
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@Zauberlehrling: Agree midfield is the part of our team that looks very average, can we really say our strikers are so bad. No we cant, our goal keeper is in need of replacements but is pretty solid on the whole, the defence is top class, and the strikers are still world class. Why can nobody who goes on about buying benzema think we need some midfielders first.
If your being honest we need a goal scoring midfielder and a defensive general, a complete change of our midfield is needed, sadly fergie has his favourites there though and he wont for a second think of bringin in players to start over his carricks, scholes, giggs and fletchers cos they are his favourites.
A midfielder should be our first signing, forget benzema, forget valencia, fergie take your fingers from up your ass, open your eyes and bring someone in there, cos im telling you our midfield is looking so bad if spurs end up getting a robben in their team their midfield will look better than ours. Robben, modric, palacios and lennon or park, fletcher, carrick and valencia, i know which midfield i would prefer and it aint ours.
But oh well im not the manager, sure lets buy benzema and when hes on 6 goals by xmas and people are shaking their heads wondering why he aint scoring, just think maybe its not the strikers but cos of our crappy midfield and our lack of a player like a sniejder.
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Just reading this thread and saw the debate about zuzukele or whatever the South African trumpets are called. Funny, 4 days back I thought about menioning this here but never got to do it.
In Mauritius, supersport gives us plenty of opportunity to watch SA football, but I have to say I’ve never caught on to a single footbball match mainly because of the trumpet blowing. It is utterly frustrating and while its good to respect culture and all, I say that this doesn’t bode well for the forthcoming World Cup. Maybe the oganisers do not want to tinkle with such sensitive things, but my guess is that the trumpet playing can ultimately severely affect the broadcasting audiences.
Fifa, and the SA organisers I’m sure wouldnt want the WC to end up being a semi-flop because of it.
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@Karl: While we are at it, lets ban popcorn from cinemas cause its annoying having to people leaving kernels behind which get stuck in the threads of my shoes.
lets also ban the whistling against players who the home crowd doesnt like, cause its annoying and i cant tell when the ref’s whistle is actually being blown
also, lets ban annoying opposition fans just cause their singing is drowning out our singing… lets ban everything annoying! woohoo!
or maybe we should just ban the concept of personal and cultural freedom… im no african, but i am also not sepp blatter….
personally tho, i am on your side in this
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@Red Ranter: Just want to comment on this before I read the article.
“I think brass bands and trumpets are infinitely less annoying to the human ear than something that’s not too different from the buzzing of bees.”
I am a musician. I have heard many trumpets and brass bands that are Very annoying to the human ear. How can the buzzing of bees be so annoying to the human ear? It is nature. I agree that it can be annoying to the person due to experiences, but not to the human ear.
I made an experience once going to Caprivi at the Zambezi river. When we performed ‘western art music’, the locals did not really enjoy it, and found it also somewhat annoying at times. They had a complete turnaround when we started playing drums and singing African folk music. The point I’m trying to make is that the annoyance is based on cultural differences.
But, as I said. I’m not going to elaborate on this anymore. Re-reading my post(s), I already seem like a political activist. For this, I want to apologise to you and all the bloggers.
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@Karl: Well said Karl. Call me biast, as a Ghanaian, but I dont see any wrong in it.
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@Grognard: I totally agree about Hernanes, he would be a sweet aquisition. SAF should have snapped him up instead of Anderson, but that’s just 20/20 hindsight.
My big concern is that he has not played in Europe yet, and that could effect his creative style, and his cultural well-being. He would certainly be a good gamble for around 15m.
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@Karl: There is nothing wrong with political activism, and you have nothing to apologize for.
It’s your opinion to state, but don’t expect anyone to agree with it!!
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@Redrich: Thanks Redrich. I was feeling a bit guilty about it.
You’re right. I think deep down inside, I expect the ‘against’ party to agree with it. Like you said, I need to realise it is just my opinion.
Thanks Edwin.
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To Matt:
Of course, midfield is the biggest hole we have. Since SAF obviously knew Ronaldo would depart, I think the buying of Berbatov was in prevision of this reconstruction. Last year was irrelevant as far as Berbatov’s buying goes. I remember SAF saying people didn’t fully appreciate the Bulgarian’s ability to link with the midfield. Maybe this is all part of the new United Fergie envisions. Who knows?
The problem of that logic is: you have no midfield to link with! I full agree that we need an attacking midfielder (which makes it even more frustrating Sneijder was not included in the Ronaldo deal.) There are others but the teams having them are reluctant to let them go or you’ll end up overpaying.
The goaltending needs to be adressed, of course, but I can’t help but think this is going to be a transitional season. That can’t please SAF since his reign is about to end and he obviously wants to win another league championship to put those ‘poolers to rest.
All we can do is wait.
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Whats everyones opinion on Luis Fabiano and pirlo joining us?? Luis fabiano wouldnt mind playing 2nd fiddle to berbatov and rooney (i would imagine
) and by the time mechada and wellbeck had matured hed be gone. Pirlo mught be for sale if milan are looking to restructure there midfield with the sale of kaka. Hes better than carrick and Fletcher and is the world class cm we need imo.
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brazil is owning italy its not even a contest
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RedRanter could I please refer you to comment 156 on this thread a completely personal attack by Dan on me. I am completely sick of him being so rude whenever he disagrees with a comment I make. I just about have put up with him misrepresenting my arguments all this year and making sarcastic comments, snide remarks and his infamous eye rolling smiley. But comment 156 is just taking it way too far.
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Brazil making light work of Italy here, its embarassing to call those folks “world champions”. Hoping for a more balanced second half
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@Bute: Tevez behaviour has not been professional AT ALL. He has been whining continuallt to the press, criticising the way the club does things, and the Manager who has proved in the top managers in the world. Moaning about being disrespected, but he was the one disrespecting the club and manager through the press. Complaining about sitting on the bench, yest he played as many games as other strikers here, with the exception of Ronaldo, and lets face it Ronaldo is in a totally different class to Tevez, a much higher class. Tevez got the offer he has been crying about like a baby, and is slowly but surely turning the fans, who were very much on his side, AGAINST him now. You say he is the most professional footballer, yet true professionals don’t behave like he did, running to the media every few minutes. He is Joorabchian’s slave, and always will be!
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@Craig Mc: for someone who finds it “very difficult” to say things in english, he sure did say alot tho
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@Aymen: I don’t see anything negatiove in what is coming out of Ronaldo’s mouth towards the fans, in fact he is saying the Man Utd fans helped him during the horrible time following the world cup! Also Ronaldo didn’t PRETEND at all from the beginning that he eventually wanted to go to Madrid, so don’t know what you are on about mate!
As for Tevez not calling the fans, you mean those Rent a Mob misguided United Tevez fans, who BOO-ED Sir Alex, and ruined and interrupted his PL victory speech. I suppose you are one of those fans who believed that Tevez is not going to Looserpool out of respect for United fans? Like anybody believes that – he is not going to Looserpool because they didn’t have the money to meet his demands – greedy lil GIT. Sorry mate, no offense to you, but you will not get me supporting Tevez in view of his bad mouthing OUR club and Manager thru all the media channels.
In case you think I am biased to Ronaldo, well you should go back thru some of the threads on this board to find the truth. I will always feel though that as a football Ronaldo gave us some extraordinary football and goals out of this world. He far, far, more than Tevez won things for this club, and gave us 6 really good footballing years. The other side of Ronaldo though, I hate!
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@colver: Colver I agree with you mate. We need a no nonsense player, who will go in hard to win the ball. Roy Keane was a feckin nutcase a lot of the time, and so was Viera, but teams need players like them. So if this guy is a good in the tackle, and aggresive as a Keane or Viera, then I am all for going in for him. We need a MF General, to let the fancy dan MF’s know they are in a game
.
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@Karl: Ronnie has NO reason to say those things now though mate, has he? So I’m inclined to give the benefit of the doubt.
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@Karl: All the networks are not complaining about technical problems mate. They are complaining about not having the technology to mute out that sound and still have ambient sound from the stadium which adds to atmosphere. Be careful when you call be people intolerant. Sure you aren’t calling me racist but if I don’t allow somebody to piss in my back yard, is that me being intolerant. I fail to see how blowing a stupid horn in the game and having that banned for the sake of the millions of viewers of the great game all over the globe is being intolerant. Perhaps you are the one being inconsiderate and intolerant of us and not understanding that your noise maker is rubbing most of us including FIFA and tv the wrong way. I refuse to allow you or any other person to turn the use of a noise maker as a cultural icon and definite element of your society. It isn’t and to feel the necessity to drown us with that crap is very insensitive of your culture towards the rest of us. I equate it to the intolerance I have to the smell of feces and curry. It’s got no place in sports when it ruins the experience for the majority. Use them to your heart’s desire when South Africa is playing but when they are not respect the rest of the worlds right to be spared their awful noise. What a thing to take pride in? Incredible?
Personally, I can’t handle and tolerate the world’s hooligan problem more than this because at least they can be segregated and separated from the rest of us.
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FFS, we have had the Ronaldo/Tevez soap opera long running fued, surely we don’t need the African Trumpets/Bugles one
. The World cup is in Africa, and they have their own way of enjoying the game on the terraces. If you don’t want to HEAR the deafening musical instrument/chanting & singing African style, turn the feckin sound down on your TV etc. The Africa world cup will be very colourful to say the least, and I will enjoy the spirit of it, no matter what! 
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@Karl:
““Other than that, Germans, Italians, English, Dutch, Brazilians etc should not have to be subjected to the irritating habits of South Africa”
(Political statement) – For years, Africans have been subjected to the irritating habits of “European” nations. We had to learn to bear and Respect it. Why can’t they?”
Like what? We beating the shit out of your pathetic excuse of a football team.
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@Grognard: Not nice Grog Bro, not nice
.
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@NicoQB: Does that make him stealthy and a killing machine? And wait till you see the new Sam Fischer in the next game. He’s going rogue and taking the gloves off. This time he is kicking ass like Keano.
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@NicoQB: FIFA has already come out and said they would ban it’s use. I hope for the sake of South Africa alone, they are allowed to use it for their games. In a sense it is a home field advantage and they need it to get out of their group.
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@Wink: Lets ban Wink for his annoying sarcasm.
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@colver: Thanks for pointing that out. You’re right. The next time I see another such unreasonable attack by Dan on you I will certainly take action.
@Dan: — I don’t have to spell it out now, do I?
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FIFA will ban them. Money is at stake, they aren’t THAT stupid.
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@Redrich: The one argument that really gets to me mate when people make it is the old he”s never played in Europe or he’s never played in England argument. I have news for you. Before they took the big step across the Atlantic, Maradona, Ronaldo, Kaka, Romario, Crespo, and hundreds more great South American players made the big move and they all did just fine. A great footballer is a great footballer. Football is not rocket science. All it’s technical idiosyncrasies are not impossible for a largely uneducated core of players to pick up and execute. So I’m sorry but I do not buy that argument. Sure there is a little period of adjustment to language and culture but a player would have to be completely brain dead or retarded to not grasp the differences and styles of play and adjust. If that argument had any validity behind it, all those great players should never have made their move to Europe as they were all guaranteed failure. But we know differently now don’t we?
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@Karl: Mate, you don’t have to apologize to me. I watched the Brazil-Italy game as well as the USA-Egypt game and I didn’t find it as annoying. But I can see why people may find it annoying going by the way it’s sparked debate all over.
Personally, I wouldn’t want to barge into what has always been a tournament that was meant to showcase Africa and its culture. I wouldn’t call on a ban on the vuvuzela, but let me tell you one thing — the constant buzzing, neither goes up nor down whether one scores a goal or not. It doesn’t give the vibe of the match dynamic. However, it’s not a total impediment for me personally. I can live with it.
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@ROOOOONEY: Italy right now is where Germany was in 2003. Rock bottom. Their league is a shambles, their national team has depended on the old guard for too long and the young talent coming up for the most part is turning heads. I actually predicted their demise in 2004 because I felt it was only a matter of time before the over saturation of foreign players into Serie A was going to affect their overall national product. It’s happened to Germany and England but it has yet to hit Spain as hard, but that’s coming too. Unless new rules regarding the amount of foreign players per team in individual countries is curtailed, national teams in Europe will suffer.
Italy won the last World Cup because they were benefiting from their last golden age of player development all reaching the right age to make them win. Now they are too old and other than a few really young stars like Macheda and Petrucci and Bolatelli, they have nothing to really be enthusiastic about. And I for one couldn’t be happier because I have been the loudest voice of all when I have claimed that everything that is ugly, dirty and negative about the game of football, got it’s start in Italy. Are you reading this Fergie. Get the hint.
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@Grognard: Not everyone adjusts to the English game. The PL is as tough as they come when it comes to competition and the physicality of its play. A skill player from S.America will not get the same time on the ball and will not be protected from rough play by the referees. So in this sense I feel it’s worth considering.
But as I said, he’s an amazing talent, and at around 15m, he would be a very good bet!!
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As an addition to the vuvuzela debate, there is a very good article on the vuvuzela, and other noise making instruments used in football on the excellent Pitch Invasion site. If anyone’s interested in reading articles about the evolution of football fan culture, this is for you.
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They were invented 10 years ago for Chinese women’s basketball. African heritage my arse. They are a drone, not a musical instrument. Anyone playing one has no interest in the actual football. It was English heritage to smash up France with patio furniture (a history much longer than 10 years), but everyone else found it very annoying and FIFA made us stop. This is no different, infact, it’s probably worse. At least we watched the match first!
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