Nov 05
Celtic v Man Utd: Preview
First of all let me thank the majority of Americans for making a good decision. Hope’s now in the air. So, I suppose, when I wake up tomorrow, I’ll see my taxes halve, and my gas bills cut down a notch.
Oh.
Anyway, good to see a President who sounds intelligent. But enough of the political commentary for now. On to the game…
Ben Foster looks certain to start today, as Ferguson hails him as a future England No. 1. We’ve all seen the much talked about promise — and his performance for Watford could attest to his obvious talent — but we can only judge him when he gets more games for us. Today is one such day. Patience is a virtue for ‘keepers and, with Fergie ruling out any loan moves for Foster and Kuszczak amid talk of EVDS extending his contract by another year, they will need loads of it.
Neville didn’t travel and so didn’t Brown, who’s wretched luck continues this season. Rafael da Silva is the obvious beneficiary as he’ll gladly take up the right back slot. One hopes he’ll continue his education there.
Considering the Arsenal game in the weekend, and our comfortable position in our group, Fergie looks certain to ring in a slew of changes to ensure his key personnel remain fresh. It remains to be see who would be given a rest. Tevez might surely get a look in. Carrick could start as he continues to approach match sharpness, while it is possible Darren Fletcher might get to play considering it’s a Scottish side we’re up against. Although, given his ‘big-game’ credentials, the boss might choose to rest him for the work that lies ahead against the Gooners. He’ll have a fair bit of yardage to cover at the Emirates. This could mean Anderson gets another start today.
Fergie would be tempted to rest Ronaldo too. But expect the Portuguese international to do some last minute convincing to be on the starting XI sheet.
I suppose Fergie won’t tinker too much with his team, but I do expect a very tight game.
Predictions: 2-1 to United. But only just.
Related items from Red Rants:- Man Utd v Celtic: Preview
- Man Utd v Stoke: Preview
- Man Utd v Everton: Preview
- Man Utd v Spurs match thread
- Porto it is then…
Tags: Game Preview · UEFA Champions' League
November 5th, 2008 at 9:58
That’s a good preview, although i think even the team which will be fielded will have enough to prove to themselves, to keep themselves away from complacency.
I would like to see them continue the winning habit and rest players after finishing game early.( surely not the way we did against HULL ).
And Just hope few more injuries at Emirates to make things easier…
November 5th, 2008 at 10:01
And yesterday we saw from ROMA, proper italian defence + counter attacking football,
I just hoped that Roma and liverpool showed that Scolari isn’t that good as we expected. I think removing the two wide players was the biggest mistake he did. So Lack of European Experience does count.. hope he keeps the losing habit intact..
November 5th, 2008 at 10:01
I feel this is a game we should win even if its by the narrowest of margins(1-0). I expect celtic to be fired up for this game and raise their game and this should also be the case with united. We need to be 100% focused in the entire match and avoid those complacent showing that we have seen in some games in the season. I do hope Foster starts this game, I was really impressed with his performance against last season and hopes he does the same tonight. What about Tevez, I do hope he gets a fair amount of minutes on the pitch. At this rate I really fear that frustration will get the better of him, imapct negatively his game and ultimately move on from the theatre of dreams. So 2-1 to united, Evra the goal machine to score a brace
November 5th, 2008 at 10:03
Is Fabio still injured? I expected EVRA to get Rest too..
November 5th, 2008 at 10:05
Really EVRA… he can provide two Assists but scoring… i think he is not calm enough to do that. Anyways the game depends on the team fielded by SAF.
I hope Tevez gets a good run to get his confidence back.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:06
@ Despicable. I was about to ask the same question but i think if he has recovered he will most likely feature against QPR in the Carling cup
November 5th, 2008 at 10:07
@Nelsen: Is the news of Operation of Hargreaves true? Will he miss the next 6 months. Season over for poor chap..
November 5th, 2008 at 10:12
I seriously believe if we win at Emirates then this season’s EPL is ours. 5 points down with game in hand, Also Considering the fact that all other big 3 to visit Old trafford. So no big away games to worry about. This will be our season if we can do it at emirates..
November 5th, 2008 at 10:15
Despicable Am not quite sure about the operation bit. I read an article in goal.com saying that he was going to see a specialist in Leicester to find a lasting solution. stuff like that but in my opinion I hope it is true.Id rather he does the operation to improve his chances of playing in more games than using injections that dont give us any concrete solutions. So its sad yes but I think its a sacrifice we can make.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:17
ya that’s a good solution but in absence of scholes it can hurt us in big european nights espcially away, if we have to play at say bernebau or nou camp etc, We need grit at the middle of park and experience of having done that before…
November 5th, 2008 at 10:47
Despicable
The problem with many teams playing in europe is to be conservative in away games and All out the blocks in home games thus the need of a defensive midfielder in the quality of Hargo. We seem to hold back and hope to pounce on the break and also score from set pieces. And even at home we do still some one like him to break opponents play and make sure they dont score against us or put much pressure on the back four. This two eeeer…… lets say mentality that we have accustomed ourselves to creates a problem when Hargreaves is missing because they are an integral part of of the plan to stiffle midfield by use of a gritty player. I think we do already have a solution in our hands and thats Carrick. He knows how to trap the ball and above all has an eye for a pass and it showed against hull city.
November 5th, 2008 at 11:27
Latest on Hargo. seems the club is yet to decide whether he will go under the knife or not. ManU web link
November 5th, 2008 at 11:29
I expect us to play a weakened side. Not a weak side, but not our strongest either. I hope Berba, Rio, Ronaldo and Evra gets a rest. We need them to be fresh for Saturday. It will be a physical game, and we have to be strong on the counter and free-kicks. I just have a feeling that will see a penalty tonight. Team prediction:
Foster
Rafael Evans Vidic Oshea
Nani Carrick Fletcher Giggs Park
Tevez
score prediction: 2-0 to United. Tevez and Oshea(!) to score.
COME ON YOU REDS!!!
November 5th, 2008 at 11:31
@Nelson Otieno: It also says that Wes could be out for a couple of weeks. That is bad…
November 5th, 2008 at 12:01
unleash the slave today fergy..the boy is on fire..
November 5th, 2008 at 12:13
@Red Devil Who would you fancy to play at right back against arsenal Oshea, G Neville or Rafael?
November 5th, 2008 at 12:30
heres an idea… start slave at right back
but really, gonna be a tough game tonight.. but at least its on tv… i don’t know why but the last match i managed to actually watch live was west brom! crazy, lets hope we see some goals tonight.. come on foster!
November 5th, 2008 at 13:28
looking forward to seeing Foster in goal, and Raphael should be alright at RB, just the sort of experience the boy needs. would like to see 4-4-2
Foster
Raphael, Rio, Vidic, Evra
Ronaldo, Carrick, Fletch, Nani
Rooney, Teves
moving to last seasons 4-3-3, with Slave and Roovez in attack, give Berba a rest, give Teves a run out, maybe have John O Shea in for Evra?
Prediction 2-1 to us
November 5th, 2008 at 13:47
There is no doubt in my mind that Ronaldo will start. The boy has not been playing all summer and needs games. He’s also the only player in our team I’d rely on for goals and I think Celtic will get a goal so we’ll need a couple to win.
Phoenix Red that would be close to my favoured line up. I’d possibly put Park on for Nani for his European experience and because he hasn’t been playing recently.
November 5th, 2008 at 13:51
I think Fergie should give our defence a good thought. I firmly believe that we are not able to reproduce last years excellent form because of his tinkering. So this game will be ideal in a way to test our defence, since I suppose itll be a snooze fest anyway.
November 5th, 2008 at 15:41
Damn Cant this day end any faster. Am really bored
November 5th, 2008 at 16:11
@Nelson Otieno: I think Gaz is gonna play on saturday. I think the team against Arsenal will be:
VDS
Neville Rio Vidic Evra
Ronaldo Carrick Fletcher Anderson Nani
Berbatov
We should play a 4-5-1 against Arsenal cause we need to hammer them in midfield. And with Adebayor missing 3 weeks, we should be okey.
November 5th, 2008 at 16:25
Lets give Left Back Pat a rest tonight as he will need to be at his quickest on saturday, and O’shea has more than enough in his locker to handle whatever Celtic throw at him.
November 5th, 2008 at 16:26
@RedDevilEddy: I like that lineup for Saturday, but I just don’t think it will ever happen. No way the boss leaves out Rooney for that one. (even if he doesn’t deserve it…)
November 5th, 2008 at 16:44
hey, anyone here ever thought of rafael actually being fabio at times? I thought of this when rafael curled a shot with his left foot which was well saved by the goalkeeper. Haha juz a thought though.. really look forward to the day when the twins play together. tonight will be a close match, but we’ll prevail! 3-0 to Mighty United!
November 5th, 2008 at 18:13
@mk theyre both right footed…fabio was the top scorer for Brazil at the youth world cup recently…
apparently he cuts in from the left and scores a lot…don’t know how much width he’d provide on the left…He’s more of a Zambrotta type player…
Rest left back Pat for tonight and give Johnny O Shea a start me thinks..
Fletcher and Anderson in midfield….Giggs and Ronaldo…Tevez and Rooney…Berba gets a rest…Evans and Vida at the Back…
November 5th, 2008 at 19:25
Where is everyone? JB with the lineup? Bueller? Bueller?
November 5th, 2008 at 19:28
Yesterday was one of the longest days of my life. For thos of you who arent American and/or Obama supporters, it was like watching Ronaldo place the ball down for a penalty kick, taking his few steps back, starting his stutter step then hesitating for THE ENTIRE DAY. you know most likely that it is going in, but the anticipation kills you.
Needless to say I am a very happy person today, but moving on to the football. I think this is going to be a draw or a loss for us because our eyes are on defeating Arsenal on the weekend. I am worried about this game because I think Arsenal are a wounded animal right now trapped in a corner. This game is massive for them, and for their fans. I feel we need to put them away early, the longer the game goes on the more they will start to believe. A blowout like the FA cup game last year could be the final nail in the coffin for them. As Keegan put it “I would absolutely luv it, if we beat them!”
November 5th, 2008 at 19:31
@Nelson Otieno: Neville will start against Arsenal. Bank on it.
November 5th, 2008 at 19:42
@johnsom33: Like I said in a late post yesterday, Obama’s victory was so great that it was for me the second biggest event of this century. The first was United winning the Champions League against the hated Chelski. And trust me, my priorities are right. The world can go to Hell in a hand basket but as long as United win trophies, life is worth living.
Truthfully, Obama’s victory had me in tears. Tears of joy and tears of bloody relief. In January the world will finally be rid of tyranny, fascist American rule and complete incompetent stupidity. I will say it again for emphasis and because of my utter joy. The Death Star has been destroyed and the One Ring has been thrown back in to it’s burning Hell pit inside Mount Doom.
Hopefully Obama will bring peace and sanity back to America and the world and allow all of us to recover from our economic problems also. A great day to be alive for all of us, not just Americans. Not because a black man is President in the US, that’s great but because a man of intelligence, proper temperament and reason will be running the United States for at least four more years (I’ll bet on eight with anyone).
November 5th, 2008 at 19:48
Evening Chaps and Chapettes.
Really looking forward to tonight game - hope its a classic European Cup tie with goals, drama and hopefully Andersons first goal!
http://www.ustream.tv/videoplayerpopup/channel/343147
In-browser stream for those who might require it. Come on the lads!
Peas out.
November 5th, 2008 at 19:55
Lineup
Foster
Rio
Vidic
JOS
Rafael
Carrick
Nani
Fletcher
Ronaldo
Giggs
Tevez
November 5th, 2008 at 19:55
Line-up
GK: Foster
RB: Rafael
CB: Vidic
CB: Rio
LB: Oshea
RM: Ronaldo
CM: Fletcher
CM: Carrick
LM: Nani
ST: Tevez
ST: Giggs
subs: PIG, Evra, Anderson, Berbatov, Rooney, Park, Evans
November 5th, 2008 at 20:00
no, 5 in midfield, NO. bring back Carlos!
November 5th, 2008 at 20:27
Should be more than enough to get the win
November 5th, 2008 at 20:35
Interesting line up.happy foster is starting.cmon u reds
November 5th, 2008 at 20:48
OK. Why on Earth isnt Celtic Park included in Fifa 09? I mean magnificent Stadium. And ITS 5 STAR!
November 5th, 2008 at 20:52
@m34ch: Thank you for the link.
November 5th, 2008 at 20:54
no strikers… Carrick and Giggs ar our furthest forward players on the early attacks. With this lineup Celtic could get something. We are going to rely heavily on Ronaldo in this game
November 5th, 2008 at 21:01
UHm…
November 5th, 2008 at 21:03
nice goal. VDS would have done better. Foster way too far off his line
November 5th, 2008 at 21:06
why do we let him shoot from 30-40 yards out!!!
November 5th, 2008 at 21:07
celtic are well up for this game, United need to match their intensity.
November 5th, 2008 at 21:19
Oshea to equalise… you heard it here first.
November 5th, 2008 at 21:20
So, I know I’m not a manager, but why are playing with no one up front?
Classy finish though, have to appreciate that.
November 5th, 2008 at 21:27
@johnsom33: no Fergie won’t give him the free role that he excels in. He’s spending all of his time at LB ffs
November 5th, 2008 at 21:30
Anyone else think we sound a bit blunt up front?
November 5th, 2008 at 21:32
@Liam: Nonsense, Oshea goes where he wants, not even fergie can tell him what to do…
Oshea better than ronaldo!
November 5th, 2008 at 21:36
What a half!! Barely time to take a breath, i love it!! The ref is fucking clueless as per usual. How was that not a foul on Carrick as he was trying to make his Maradona run?
November 5th, 2008 at 21:36
Poor half. Only half chances. I hate to be negative but at this rate I fear we may be thrashed.
November 5th, 2008 at 21:37
giggs off
berba on
November 5th, 2008 at 21:37
@Liam: I would say maybe Evs does better also but only because he is a good three or four inches taller. I would say the blame lies with the outfield players on that for letting Celtic win three headers in a row leading up to it, and for Rio not closing him down fast enough….
Other than that, what a match!!
November 5th, 2008 at 21:38
@Drew Vader: it was fletcher.
November 5th, 2008 at 21:38
@edwin: Thrashed? you cant be serious
November 5th, 2008 at 21:40
@dan(u-ol): I thought Fletch could have done better on closing down the guy who got the assist and flicked it on to the dude who scored, but then I thought it was Rio that didn’t close down the goal scorer fast enough. Maybe not thought. We’ll see once they get the halftime replays up
November 5th, 2008 at 21:42
So glad I didn’t travel to see this feckin circus. I wouldn’t blame Villareal or Alborg for thinking Fergie wants to gift this game to Celtic, with this team he has put out. Rafeal looks like a kid playing on the local park, he is so exposed. Carrick doesn’t know where the feck he is. Tev is running around again in feckin circles. Nani is so out of this game with O’Shea playing left back. O my God, well the right team are winning do far.
November 5th, 2008 at 21:42
@Evad from Manchester: No worries fella, lets hope we see a goal or two!
Come on the lads!
November 5th, 2008 at 21:44
Fosters at fault theres no need to be that far off your line…rafael must learn when to tackle
November 5th, 2008 at 21:44
Uuuh guys, I’ve only watched the last 10min of the first half and thought we were utterly clueless. Tevez looks like the anti-Berbatov: all energy, yet horrendous decision making; where Beba is languid and gets most of his decisions right.
So, who were our better players in the first half? How did Giggs fare upfront?
November 5th, 2008 at 21:45
I just love it when we play a 4-2-4-0 formation. Perhaps somebody should tell Tevez to stay up front and in the middle a bit more rather than roam the pitch ala Rooney. I really hate that part of both player’s game. We need a forward presence in this game and sitting both Berbatov and Rooney was a big mistake. You know we suck when our best chances of the game have come from our two central defenders.
Tevez, Nani, Carrick, and Giggs have been invisible and are playing confused football. Nobody seemss to know what the other will do. Once again Nani’s crosses are disappointing me and his first touch and break from an opponent has been slow and awkward. Carrick has been invisible until he made an impressive run near the end of the half that should have ended up as a free kick. Tevez has been anonymous in the the box and his two shots outside of the box were horrible. And Giggs looks slow and indecisive. He should have been on the end of that late low cross from Nani. He was too slow to react and to get to that ball which was Nani’s one bright moment in the game so far (sorry about that Craig).
The single beacon of light and positive play has been Rafael. Great attacking instincts and he has done his job well. Ronaldo has been ok but he needs the rest to play better to help him get more space. And McDonald’s goal was sublime. No blame to Foster on that one although he has looked rather nervous out there. Understandable I guess. Still, I say buy Rene Adler. Hope the boys show up for the second half. Expect Rooney to enter soon.
November 5th, 2008 at 21:46
Good game, but we are getting fooking killed out there. We need some inspiration and some drive. Giggs has been terrible. Even Silvestre can do a better job than him right now!
Anderson is needed, without him we can twin this game. I say: Giggs and Carrick off. Anderson and Rooney in!
November 5th, 2008 at 21:47
@NicoQB: Good point. It’s all about decision making and Tevez has got it all wrong. Berba would have laid off a good pass or touch to someone for a good shot because I personally feel the opportunities have been there. It’s United’s poor decision making and execution that have limited the shots on goal.
November 5th, 2008 at 21:48
@Liam: You’re being sarcastic, I presume
November 5th, 2008 at 21:48
@Craig Mc: Just what I was thinking
@Drew Vader: Ok, not thrashed, beaten perhaps
November 5th, 2008 at 21:48
@Grognard: i actually think carrick and nani have been good…
November 5th, 2008 at 21:48
i think in regards to our goal it was poor defending especially by young rafael who had a a torrid first half i thought…he completely missed his marker on that one..
November 5th, 2008 at 21:49
United to win 2-1. Berbatov and Ronaldo to score!
He has been terrible! Hopefuly he will do justice and give us a penalty. He shouldnt have blown off for half time when we got the corner. We have been dangerous on those.
Yeey, Berba is on!
COME ON YOU BLUES!!!
P.S. The Norwegian commentators are actually praising the ref!
November 5th, 2008 at 21:50
@Craig Mc: This was a real concessional of a lineup. Very defeatist with only Tevez up front. Just a joke and you can just see that he was doing is pal a favor by giving him a chance to get in the UEFA Cup. Probably not the case but it makes you think what the Hell was Fergie thinking? Still, I should know to never question the Boss. He knows best right?
November 5th, 2008 at 21:51
Ummm kinda confused by this substitution but whatever…..
What has Nani done to deserve getting yanked. And it might be harsh, but what has Giggs done to deserve staying on? And now, what does this do to our formation? Giggs was playing as a second striker and Nani on the wing, so we take off the winger and put on a striker? Ooookkkk
November 5th, 2008 at 21:52
@RedDevil: Once again Fergie the master tactician strikes again. Giggs has always been embarassing wehn playing as a forward. I think he can actually play well as LM (not LW - winger, mind you) orr CM against weak opposition. But playing him as striker is just invting trouble.
November 5th, 2008 at 21:52
@Grognard: Grog, I agree with you. Nani only seems to play well with Evra, because O’Shea is no help to him, and expected him to chase mislaid balls. I don’t agree about Rafael, he is lousy defending tonight, so exposed SO FAR, and he is worse than Nani at getting past the last defender and getting any kind of ball into the area. Sorry mate. If that’s our MF this season, God help us.
November 5th, 2008 at 21:54
Vidic should have done better with his chance.Tevez needs a striking partner cause giggs is not helping him.midfield looks strong with carrick .
Berbatov on for Nani.Nani should have been allowed to continue and giggs should have been taken off.
November 5th, 2008 at 22:10
The corner which was cleared of the line by maloney was actually over the line from the angle i saw.united are keeping hell of the ball but seen to lack the final touch.
Rooney should come on for giggs.
November 5th, 2008 at 22:10
When I saw Tevez playin up front on his own I knew this was just asking for trouble! Tevez is NOT a centre-forward, just like Rooney is not! He does’nt have the goalscoring instincts to be a poacher either. And I agree with the other commenteres: I’d rather have seen Giggsy hauled off instead of Nani, who would provide more energy as the match progresses.
November 5th, 2008 at 22:14
Noooo…Left back Pat has come on for Rafael! Save him for L’Arse!
When is the Roonster going to come on??! We look so toothless in attack! Why won’t the goddamn ball JUST GO IN???!!!
November 5th, 2008 at 22:14
O’Shea finally starting to embrace the free role
November 5th, 2008 at 22:15
oh!!! come the fuck on!!!
November 5th, 2008 at 22:17
Rooney time. SAF wants the win, after all.
November 5th, 2008 at 22:25
Celtic should get a bloody parking fine sometime soon; their bus has been in front of their goal for the entire 2nd half!
November 5th, 2008 at 22:29
@Nino: Well that should get the bus moving!!
November 5th, 2008 at 22:30
YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA GIGGGGGGGGGGGGGSYYYYYYYYYYY!!!
November 5th, 2008 at 22:30
Ronaldo is back! What a shot!
November 5th, 2008 at 22:36
hmm looking at the score in the other game I would have preferred Celtic to win. I really wanted them to go through and considering their luck they’ll probably draw AC in the UEFA cup. Oh well, they blew it themselves by taking off all of their scoring threats
November 5th, 2008 at 22:38
clanger by Boruc saved face in what was a poor performance btw
November 5th, 2008 at 22:39
@Liam: And lose our unbeaten record in the CL in the process? We haven’t lost in this competition since being battered at the San Siro in 06-07, and long may it continue!
November 5th, 2008 at 22:39
Sorry. But there was no Freakin Killer Ball Today!
November 5th, 2008 at 22:40
too bad berba couldnt snatch the victory at the last second.
Tevez needs a goal in the worst way…
November 5th, 2008 at 22:41
OK. Has Del Piero gotten a Enemity with Madrid? Losers! hahaha
November 5th, 2008 at 22:44
And here was I bashing Giggs for one of his worst performances in his United career. I still think he sucked,but he saved us a point. Good ol` Giggsy!
We could have won it with Berba in the last minute, but Im pleased with a draw. We were the team chasin the whole game and in the end Celtic were playing 7-3-0. Its difficult to score on a team that plays that way. And remember- Cletic have only lost to one team at Celtic Park(which I must say is an amazing stadium!) and that is Barca. Its a good result. But we have to get a better result vs le Arse, who drew 0-0 with Fenerbache.
November 5th, 2008 at 22:45
Celtic looked like a very average Premiership team. Hull would hav whooped their sorry asses!
Today Fergie was just lplain wrong with his team selection. Tinkering a bit with your line up is fine, but did you guys realise he just made at least 5 major changes from our most settled team to date. No wonder there was no chemistry in the 1st half.
Anyhow, anyone still warranting that Tevez justifies a 20M price tag?
November 5th, 2008 at 22:50
worst performance by tevez i have ever seen, he has left his first touch on the bench which i certainly hope he enjoys sitting on! cant say he is worth the £30million for his permanent contract based on what we have seen tonight, or this season so far
otherwise a gud recovery from a match they shud hav won
November 5th, 2008 at 22:51
@NicoQB: You’re being a bit harsh on Carlitos there mate, he was played out of position tonight. I would still pull out all the stops to sign the lad. He’s a gem!
November 5th, 2008 at 23:10
Good clearance by Berba at the end! Oh well, it’s still early days yet.
November 5th, 2008 at 23:11
@Nino: ok. 20m for a player who can’t score right now, even less make an assist
Last season Rooney was doing all the donkey work as shown by his assists stats. Now that he’s decided to be a bit more selfish, and the Roovez not featuring much, I’m not surprised that its the apache who’s paying the price. He should really stick to pklaying up front and try to score to regain his confidence. But in any case he’s still far from justifying the investment…
November 5th, 2008 at 23:14
BERBA!!!!!! How could you miss that gift?
How we never won that game by three or four the way Celtic played us is beyond me? We were total rubbish. Our first touches on the ball anywhere near their box was just bloody atrocious. Had we had even good control on half of those opportunities we would have scored four tonight.
We dodged a bullet and although Giggs scored the goal in opportunistic fashion, Ronaldo’s shot was brilliant with it’s swerve. It handcuffed Boruc. So many things to talk about. Here are my main observations of what I consider to be a very poor offensive display from United.
1. The starting lineup was a joke and Fergie basically conceded the first half by playing only Tevez up front and not offering speed from fullbacks on both sides of the pitch. No target man up front was ludicrous.
2. Once again our crossing was just awful. Forgwet the first half when it was trashy but late in the second half players were getting open only to have terrible crosses go over their heads or not get there in the first place. Most noticeable in this is how poor Nani’s crossing was. He is supposed to be our best crosser and this season he just isn’t delivering.
3. Still on Nani. Besides his poor crossing, he seems to be hesitating too much and his first touch and initial burst to get away from defenders has been poor and slow. He is making smarter decisions right now but he still isn’t making things happen. I’ll be patient with the lad because I know he has the talent but I’m afraid Fergie’s head games have backfired and ruined the lad.
4. Why was Rafael taken off? He was the best player in the match and gave the team width and attacking options. Yes bring Evra on but get rid of O’Shea. We were 1-0 down. No need to protect the back when Celtic were not attacking and had only one man up front. Evra and Rafael forging upwards and linking up with Ronaldo and Giggs would have given us more option and speed. I will this though, Evra was just total shite when he came on. Yes he missed a great opportunity but his first touch and ball control had just alluded him for this game. His concentration and focus was very poor under the circumstances. It’s obvious to me he is favoring an injury and it’s throwing him off his game.
5. We really put Celtic to the rack in the second half but we never played with the kind of pace when breaking out of our own end. Not much you can do but be patient and pass it around when they have ten men behind the ball, but when breaking out they kept on delaying and playing too safe.
6. When we need a goal badly we should be linking Evra with Ronaldo on the left side. It gives us more speed, creativity and allows Ronaldo to cut in for a shot while also allowing Evra to overlap more.
7. We lack intensity and composure over the ball in the attacking third of the pitch. First touches look more like pinball rebounds and we take too long in decision making. Shoot or pass? How many shots were blocked tonight? Must have been a dozen.
8. Tevez was totally pissed to come off and although he played a better second half, he was total rubbish. He is not even getting a smell on goal and I wonder if he will even score a goal this season. His confidence is at an all time low and he seems to be unhappy with everything and especially with Fergie. We all must send our condolences to him and wish him well because he is through at United. No way will they pay that kind of money for someone who isn’t scoring, and who isn’t happy with his role.
Yesterday I was offering my feelings on Hoffenheim and a trio of great players they have. Best of all is Ibisevic. Scoring over a goal a game and leading the Bundesliga while also showing great speed and goal scoring instinct. I said we should go after him and today rumors circulating that United have inquired about him but have been told he is not for sale. Well of course he is not for sale right now. Hoffenheim has a chance to stun the footballing world by winning the Bundesliga title. Unlike Hull City, they are the real deal because they are attack oriented and have the talent to back it up. But I would continue trying to buy him after the season is over. For me he is a better alternative to Carlos Tevez who clearly has lost his form, confidence and possibly his desire to stay.
9. Carrick was rubbish today. I have noticed over the years he has been here that Michael Carrick’s game does not suit playing against teams that put 10 men behind the ball. All of a sudden his great passing abilities go on vacation and he becomes ultra conservative and overly cautious. He needs to become more aggressive and move upfield a bit more in situation like tonight.
10. We seem to lack intensity and killer instinct. It’s bad enough when we are 1-0 up but we showed little urgency in the first half when we went down. It took the entrance of Berbatov to give us a little more flair and desire in the second half. Also, this team needs to concentrate greatly on finishing and striking the ball while in training sessions. Our finishing all season has been sub par. Too many easy chances tonight that went south.
We dodged a bullet and managed a valuable point but overall I give our team a 4-10 as they lacked in so many areas. Nothing has been clinched here and we need to secure first in the group. Better focus, intensity and concentration is needed and less carelessness.
November 5th, 2008 at 23:16
@Craig Mc: Well I would hope that Nani was better than Rafael at getting by the last defender and getting the ball in. He’s a winger/LMF where Rafael is only a RB. And I think Rafael recovered well and dispossessed players of the ball very well tonight. He is so quick and has great control on the ball.
November 5th, 2008 at 23:19
@james f: Ah James, Ronaldo was back a few weeks ago considering he had two straight two goal games. I just wished he would stop hitting the wall on his free kicks. What’s with that?
November 5th, 2008 at 23:20
@Liam: It wasn’t a clanger by Boruc. He did very well to stop that incredibly hard and swerving shot. He just got the bad break on the rebound as it went right to Giggsy. Thankfully.
November 5th, 2008 at 23:21
rafael best player in the match??? are u takin the piss mate
instrumental in giving away their goal and generally over awed by the whole occasion definitly in the first half
gave away stupid fouls as well, not bad gettin forward, still better than neville imo
November 5th, 2008 at 23:22
@NicoQB: Right now Carlos is a lame duck striker the way George W. Bush is a lame duck President. Trust me, he’s gone.
November 5th, 2008 at 23:24
@Romo: No mate but you certainly can piss off with your comment.
November 5th, 2008 at 23:25
@NicoQB: Form is temporary, class is permanent! And Tevez is class! He might not be our best or first choice forward but he’s an extremely handy player to have in the squad and come off the bench; his knack for vital goals is a commodity that is definitely worth £20m IMO. So many late, crucial goals (19 in total) kept us on course for that historic double last season, and he also kept his nerve in the shoot-out in Moscow as our first penalty taker. That’s the kind of footballer you want in your team!
I’m surprised you’ve overlooked his contribution to the team’s success in his short tenure with us, and I personally would sign him purely on the basis of what he did for us last year.
It’s not his fault that Berbatov cost such a hefty sum and hence has to be played if fit is it? You can be rest assured, however, that whether Carlitos is in the team or not, when he plays in that red shirt he’ll give it nothing less that 110%, and that’s all that matters for me.
November 5th, 2008 at 23:28
November 5th, 2008 at 23:29
i missed the game, was one of my mates leavers party and we all decided to watch arsenal since he is an arsenal fan so can anyone summarise the game for me please
November 5th, 2008 at 23:33
@NicoQB: Also I just wanted to say that the ONLY way I would be happy to see Carlos Tevez leave us is if we signed his younger compatriot Sergio Aguero as a replacement! Or even Messi
November 5th, 2008 at 23:39
@Craig Mc: You’re going a bit OTT there mate with ur rant. A draw with Celtic at Parkhead is not the end of the world! In fact, I think it’s quite creditable, given their fantastic home record. Many European giants have been slaughtered there in the past, such as Milan, Juve and ourselves.
As for doubting the Boss, I think Fergie made the right decision resting players for the game on Saturday. Right now, making up ground in the Prem is far more important in my opinion. The fact of the matter is that we know we WILL qualify for the CL knockout round, so does it really matter if we have to wait another game or two to do so?
November 5th, 2008 at 23:42
@Nino: I second that. I want Tevez to stay, but I think he has become to obsessed about scoring. He has to get a good performance under his belt or his play is only gonna get worse.
November 5th, 2008 at 23:43
@Craig Mc: Spot on there mate about SAFs team selections. Giggs in the middle, whats that all about, then he takes Nani off and then puts Giggs out wide.
He should have started with Berbatov and Tevez and kept Nani on the wing, won the game and then make changes.
November 5th, 2008 at 23:48
@Nino: Nino mate, Tevez was through on goal so many times tonight, he got away from the defenders, but he either fall over at the vital moments, made passes that fell short of his intended target, or took pot shots that woefully missed. I don’t know what is wrong with him, but he has a head problem, because he feels Fergie has ruined his normal game. He said he had talked about it with the Argentine manager. Therefore he is doing his own game (he thinks), but he does not fit into ours anymore, Soooooooooooo - he is looking more and more an underachiever and risky business. Sad, because I love Tev. I do think it’s a mind thing with him though, and that can hinder a persons game greatly, fatally sometimes.
November 5th, 2008 at 23:52
@Fred The Red: Fred, I agree with you wholeheartedly. If Fergie’s team selections and tactics are confusing us fans, what the heck must they be doing to the players. Everyone seemed to be so confused in the first half
.
November 5th, 2008 at 23:58
@Craig Mc: OK Tevez was shit tonight, granted, but you can’t blame the lad if he’s been in and out of the team all season, and hence lacks match practice. You can’t also blame him if he tries harder that normal when he plays because he knows he isn’t gonna get many opportunities to shine and so has to grab his chances when he can. And finally, you can’t blame him if he’s played out of position as an orthodox centre forward, which everyone knows is not his favoured position.
November 6th, 2008 at 0:01
@Nino: Yes to me it does matter Nino. Have you watched our last few games mate?. Some of Fergie’s decision making and substitutions have left us very vulnerable, and I don’t see rhyme or reason to many of them. Still, Fergie is sacrosanct you know, that he is always right, and so far this season, I don’t think he has got it right yet - sorry if that offends you mate, but that’s just my opinion.
November 6th, 2008 at 0:05
@Nino: Nino, I am not blaming Tev, read my post again, I have said that it is a mind thing with him. That he has got it into his head, that Fergie has played him out of position, and it has affected the way he plays his game, and he fears his game for Argentina is suffering as well. Those are his words not mine, and personally I don’t think he has all that much skill to his game - sorry. I do believe he can get vital goals at vital times, like somebody said, and that he is a combatant, a bloody good one. But his head needs sorting, what else is messing up his game so badly. If somebody else has a clearer idea, I’d love to hear it - ok mate?.
November 6th, 2008 at 0:13
Am I the only who thinks Fergie keeps playing Tevez out of pity or just so he can get games? The Rooney- Berbatov was going on well, whether Tevez wants to leave or not because he doesn’t get games is his problem. He has done nothing so far to prove he’ll work well with Berbatov.
But I’m not bothered, we only need one more point from Villareal away and Aalborg at home to go through, so no real fuss.
November 6th, 2008 at 0:14
@Craig Mc: SAFs team selections have been doing my head in for years, He has a bad habit of putting square pegs in round holes
November 6th, 2008 at 0:16
@Craig Mc: Actually he’s come out and denied those quotes, saying he was happy and his game was going well. Weird that you chose to believe those quotes when they were from sh!te sources and you were quick to dismiss Nani’s rumoured happines when they were from the same sh!te tabloids as Tevez’s quotes…I just don’t get it
November 6th, 2008 at 0:17
@Craig Mc: Craig, we get this every year mate. People like you and others who doubt SAF and reckon he’s going senile, only to end up with egg on their faces as the Master proves them wrong in the end. I remember after the Barca game at Camp Nou last season, a whole host of people on this blog tore Fergie to shreds for playing a defensive line up etc. Its funny how those same people weren’t complaining after we beat them and got to the final. You have to bear in mind that Fergie now has to find a way to accomodate FOUR top class forwards in his team (which I think is the main cause of this tinkering). No mean feat!
Having said that, I was bamboozled by Fergie playing Tevez and Giggs up front tonight. Fair enough if he wants to rest Roonatov, but I personally would have had a strong physical presence up front i.e Ronaldo, and Tevez playing off him, with Giggs and Nani on the wing. He made a mistake with his line-up and tactics tonight (he is only human after all!) but had the presence of mind to rectify the situation and bring on Rooney and Berbatov.
November 6th, 2008 at 0:24
@Fred The Red: Mate I don’t want to start any aggro with you or Craig MC, but have those team selections over the years by any chance resulted in trophy after trophy ending up in the Old Trafford cabinet?
November 6th, 2008 at 0:30
@Nino: Heh, would you be happy if Carlton Palmer played for us on the basis he gave 110% to us?
Ok Tevez was ok in his first season, but for me I still think that even then he did not participate enough in the flow of the attack, by that I mean that he does not fit in seamlessly. For e.g. when Nani is on song, we can see that he’s made for this team (which right noe unfortunately is not too often).
I’ll always admire Tevez’s grit, passion and commitment, but by jove, is his decision making horrendous! What good it is to be commited to the team if you always go for the glory shot? This season he nearly always went for the shot arround the box instead of trying to pass open up the defence. I can’t fault Ronaldo or Rooney for going for personal glory because we all know that they have god gifted talent to actually pull out the shot or cause a dangerous rebound (as shown verily with Ronnie’s sidewinder tonight, though I’d just hope he’d quit taking free kicks already)
On a side note in genral I would also wish Anderson to stop shooting from distance, for obvious reasons, but would welcome a few more occasional pot shots from Carrick: he scored around 10 goal per season back at Spurs, had a good shot from distance - as AS Roma can attest…
November 6th, 2008 at 0:36
@Nino: I think its a bad result because Celtic was such pushovers. They were very poor and we should have struck at least 3 past them.
No really I stand by what I said about Hull, they would have thrashed Celtic.
And andone more thought about Tevez, two words : Alan Smith
November 6th, 2008 at 0:41
@NicoQB: I do not understand your logic in comparing Tevez to a waste of space such as Palmer, who isn’t even fit to lace the boots of our kids side. While you’re at it, I might as well ask you: would you also compare Rooney, who also gives it 110%, to Palmer then??
I think ur mixing up Tevez with Nani. Nani is the greedy bugger who always goes for the glory shots and has horrendous decision making. I rarely saw Tevez hit 30-yard screamers last year, except that belter against West Ham, which you have to admit was unstoppable! I disagree with your point that he doesn’t fit in, as IMO Tevez linked up very well with Rooney (an example would be Boro at home last year) and Ronaldo (Brum at home last year). When Carlitos scores a late leveller to save our ass this season, or hits a priceless winner or away goal, I would very much like to see where all the fickle haters on this blog will be!
November 6th, 2008 at 0:45
@Nino: Well I for one was a bit miffed about how we played in the CL last season as SAF clearly privileged a defensive stance. It worked out in the end, but we could have just as much lost to Barca. Remember that Barca was nowhere near being vintage Barca. Plus for a good part of the CL final we were outplayed by Chelski. That’s why I’ve got a hunch we don’t receive the credit we are due because we showed much better football in the Premiership.
Anyways, everybody knows that tactically Fergie, is let’s put it mildly, merely “just capable”. The fact remains hwever that he remains the greatest man manager in modern football and just knows how to instill the winning craving culture in his players, and that’s what makes the man.
November 6th, 2008 at 0:50
@Nino: Nino, your mixing hate up with people having an opinion
.
November 6th, 2008 at 0:52
@Nino: I was just being rethorical, mate!
Just a simile.
Sometimes a player, for all his good intentions, may not be what the team needs. On the otherend of the spectrum, you get a player who may be a bit of a maverick in his team, but somehow makes the game tick. cough slave cough.. I’m sure there must be plenty of other examples in other teams as well..
Of course the ideal scenario would be to have both: a great player feeling completely at home in the club environment , 20legend, for example…
November 6th, 2008 at 0:53
@Nino: Nino, thats not a fair assessment, because over the last seasons Fergie has had CQ and others before that who were good tacticians. That always help win trophy’s.
November 6th, 2008 at 0:59
@Grognard: Hmm I’m sure if RR was here he’d tell you that that was a bit unwarranted…
November 6th, 2008 at 1:00
@Nino: Your wrong in your assumption there Nino. No United fan is calling Fergie senile FFS, that came from Calderon
. Nevertheless, NO some of us didn’t enjoy the way United fans played in the Nou camp or at OT against Barca, just as we haven’t enjoyed the way we have played in quite a few of our games this season. Hey we pays our money, and stand on the terraces home and away, so if we are bored shitless, or frustrated to the point of commiting hari bloddy kari sometimes, at the way we are (or better put are not playing), then it is our prerogative to be able to voice our opinions. You may not agree with them, and that’s fine with me, because that is what debating is all about DIFFERENCES of opinion. Yet I am not one who believes that Fergie is so sacrosanct, that we can’t say if we feel things are not quite right. Fergie himself has plenty of negative things to say himself, sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo 
.
November 6th, 2008 at 1:04
@Nino: Ok mate, don’t let these musings get to you, the name of the site is redrants, after all.
Me I’m off to bed. Nighty night, all…
November 6th, 2008 at 1:07
@Rd: They weren’t from the same source though. Tevez was in our national press, several papers, following an interview HE gave to the Argentine media. Tevez never denied that he had said he believed he was being too unselfish, and that Fergie had played him in positions that had affected his game, and that he needed to be more selfish. What Tevez denied was that he wasn’t unhappy at United, and that he wanted to stay with the club. Nani as yet has never said that, and I personally saw Nani’s interview on mutv, so I know what he said
.
November 6th, 2008 at 1:07
OK NicoQB & Craig, I think I’m gonna have to call it a day. Let’s just agree to disagree!
I respect both your opinions on Tevez and Fregie but no way do I agree with them. Although I do feel Tevez is unfairly being picked on as a scapegoat for the teams failings in front of goal. hence my staunch support for him. Why is no one picking on Slave Boy or Rooney? They’re just as culpable of missing shots as Tevez right? Tevez will never be the egotistical player that Ronaldo is, but he is a special, unique player in his own right, and I think people need to appreciate that a bit more!
Peace out hombres!
November 6th, 2008 at 1:08
@NicoQB:
, solid mate.
November 6th, 2008 at 1:12
@Nino: Nino mate, I respect your differing opinions too, as I already said
. I understand your support of Tev, you love the lad, and there’s nothing wrong with your support for him. You know that I have said my piece on Ronnie and Roon when I thought they had flaws too. Also I don’t dislike Tev or have a downer on him. I mentioned his good points as well as his bad, always have. You just keep covering his back mate, that’s great, and its what I do with Nani 
.
November 6th, 2008 at 1:40
@Craig Mc: I’ll assume in the same interview, he said he wasn’t up to form and wasn’t happy with his game at the moment, if thats the interview you’re referring to, then yes, he did come out and deny that he never mentioned a single word to the media, nothing about his game declining and whether he was happy here or not. So I’ll have to disagree with you that he said those things.
@Grognard: Whats wrong with his comments, though I’ll admit like 99% of the users on this blog, he magnified the problem bigger than it really is, but yes Rafael was in o way the best player on the pitch, I’d put Vidic, Fletcher and Carrick(yes i disagree that he was sh!te), ahead of him. I don’t agree he was the cause of their goal, but yes he dived in a lot and gave away unnecessary free- kicks, he indeeed had a bad 1st half, i don’t know if it was because he was awed by the atmosphere or not, but no i wouldn’t start him in place of Neville. He’s post was certainly not worthy of your reply imo.
And 4 out of 10 considering we had 74% possession versus a team who decides to prk the bus even in their own ground? Not a class performance by any means, but 4 is harsh.
@Craig Mc: I never thought McClaren was a good tactician, but we won the treble whilst he was assistant and i fail the believe he was key to our tactics. Honestly the way everyone talks about Fergie’s tactics, you’d think he wasn’t fit to manage a championship side.
November 6th, 2008 at 1:43
@RedDevilEddy: If he was obsessed with scoring I think he would spend a lot more time in scoring positions. His problem is he is obsessed with playing every position on the field. He needs to slow down a bit and center his attention on the 18 yard box and trying to score by getting in goal poaching positions. Berbatov was unlucky today because he almost had what looked to be three sure goals. All because he was in great scoring positions. No guarantees but at least if you are in those positions, your chances increase far greater than taking speculative shots from outside the box.
November 6th, 2008 at 1:49
@NicoQB: “are u takin a piss mate” is an insult to me pal so don’t go speaking for RR when you seem to ignore the reason for my reply. His comment was rude and insulting to me and I told him what he could do with it. I have no problem with you so stop acting like the police.
November 6th, 2008 at 1:51
@Rd: I did not take kindly to that comment “are u takin a piss mate”. I found it rude and incredibly unfriendly. I have no problem if he disagrees with my take on Rafael’s performance (even if he is wrong). Just disagree with me in a polite manner. And 4/10 is what they deserve considering the way Celtic played.
November 6th, 2008 at 1:55
What a game!!!
That was probably the best CL match on show tonight. Celtic played terrifically well in the first half, asserted themselves on the game, with a little help from us btw. The second half was a different story, we should have gotten a win. We put so much pressure on them in their own home, it was like we were at OT.
Interesting line-up and subs, but Giggs prolonged stay on the pitch paid off, so can’t really complain. Berbatov missed a golden opportunity but I’m happy with the way we controlled the game in the 2nd half and attacked relentlessly. If the Roon and Berbatov were on for longer, we’d have won that match by 2 or more goals. At least they were rested for saturday’s big clash. If we carry on this attacking onus into that game, along with the Roonatov, we should get a victory at the Emirates.
November 6th, 2008 at 2:29
@Grognard: “Are you taking the piss mate” usually means “are you having a laugh”. Typically one wouldn’t read too much into it as it’s an oft used expression in the UK.
But you feel insulted by it, well then each one to his own.
November 6th, 2008 at 2:37
@Red Ranter: I’m not from England mate. Where I’m coming from that sounds like I’m full of piss. I hate local slang on the worldwide web.
November 6th, 2008 at 2:42
@Nino: I am pro Fergie, and just because I point out a few problems with him does not mean that I dislike him.
He is arguably the best manager of all time, has a great football ethos, loves creative and invenvtive footballers and He will definately be a hard act to follow.
Domestically, the problems that I pointed out do not have a great bearing on our sucess or failure coz our players are simply a class above most of our rivals, but in Europe were the top teams are more evenly matched in terms of quality, his lack of tactical acumen shows itself. His record in Europe considering some of the players at his disposal has not been good enough in my opinion and his ability to watch a game and make changes when needed sometimes looks like it has been born out of hope rather than calculation and this my freind is the only big chink in his armour
November 6th, 2008 at 3:43
I wouldn’t say Rafael was the best player on the pitch. After all he made the mistake that led to the Celtic goal and I remember an occasion where he had all the time in the world to make a cross and couldn’t clear the first defender. He also made a horrific tackle. I admire his attacking intent but defensively he has a lot of work to do.
The tactics were horrific. If you are going to play Tevez at least play him alongside Rooney or Berbatov. It was 4-6-0. Were we playing for a draw? We got penetration on the flanks but had no-one to cross to. I do not remember a single clearcut chance created in the first half and in the second half it was mostly long distance potshots.
The only time we looked like scoring was set pieces when we got players like Vidic into the box.
Celtic showed that if you put 10 men behind the ball against us and do not make any major defensive errors you have a good chance of getting a result because for all our possession we did not threaten. We need a solid tactic for beating teams that play like that.
November 6th, 2008 at 3:53
Last night only showed that Ronaldo is the major driving force for us going forward and i have no doubt about that.Worked Really hard through out the match.Ronaldo should stay here for the seasons to come cause finding an able replacement for him might be quite difficult for us if he leaves.messi might have the flair element but no way near as powerful in air as ronaldo.the only way i see ronaldo to leave is for rooney to develop into an out and out striker(which might not happen in the next 2 seasons considering his mental weakness) so if anyone can suggest an able replacement please suggest.
November 6th, 2008 at 4:02
@(Manutd Forever - how do you do the @comment links?)
Ronaldo = speed + technique + aerial + set pieces + flair + creativity + strength + selfishness + good looks.
There is NO ONE like Ronaldo… He is the complete footballer - perhaps ever (Klinsmann? Pele? Maradona?).
The best we could get would be Aguero and an improved version of Nani
November 6th, 2008 at 4:06
I thought Berbatov was surplus to requirement as his transfer came through at a mind-numbing 30+ million quid. BUT, my oh my, did he turn me over. He is a very special footballer and a joy to behold. He has been great or done great in every game I have seen this season (5-6 games).
With Adebayor out this saturday along with Persie and Fabregas playing below standards, I hope Fergie goes for the jugular and we have another 4-0 thrashing party.
November 6th, 2008 at 4:20
Sorry about the spamming, but I have started grad school for my PhD and am swamped 24/7 so I get to read comments late at night.
Regarding Tevez, he will get playing time and rebuild his form once FA cup and league cup starts again, just like Saha did in 2005-06 when Rutgerus Johannes Martinus van Nistelrooij was our golden boy.
With time and matches you will all see that Tevez is quality and worth 20 million. Whether he wants to be 3rd wheel at Utd and fight for his place every week is up for him to decide.
Goodnight
November 6th, 2008 at 4:34
@Grognard: I know you are not from England, but I am giving you sense of context is all. I didn’t tell you to not get offended. This site gets people from all over the world and a majority do come from the UK. So, from time to time, people would drop in phrases that’s not offensive to their usage but may be so to others without their knowledge.
And while taking the piss may be local slang, it has percolated the world wide web to forums and the like.
As I said, I wasn’t telling you to not get offended, but saying that there is a good chance that he didn’t say it with malice. You are right to feel offended because you didn’t know.
November 6th, 2008 at 4:50
@Red Ranter: I know what you mean RR but I was just stating the point that people on the web should realize that their local slang could be taken out of context and misinterpreted and therefore, they should be careful about what they say. Me included. I often laugh when I hear a bloke say this player is the shit. What?
That’s a compliment but from where I am and from my generation it is an insult and to be fair, it sounds like an insult. I mean to call someone the shit is considered complimentary. This hiphop talk is really such rubbish. Oh that dude is the bomb. Again, from where I am from that means a person has failed miserably. H has bombed. To others it means he is super human. Go figure. I wish the English speaking part of the world would one day begin to speak English again.
Oh yeah and if you call somebody a mate here in Canada, that means you are sleeping with them. More food for thought.
November 6th, 2008 at 5:44
@MADSCHSter united:don’t get what u mean by @comment links.
Aguero might be good but how about podolski and schweinsteiger both would probablAY COST half of ronaldo and are quite good too.
November 6th, 2008 at 5:47
So much negativity from you grognard… its really quite frustrating because i would tend for the “bounce back” mentality, but you are entitled to your opinions…
Oh, today i concluded…. the Roovez works because of the Roo and not the Vez. Both players may prefer to play from deep off the last man, but definately Rooney is the smarter player and better at playing with Ronaldo and Berbatov. I think that these three are the Trinity, as it were…
the Roovez-Ronaldo Trinity worked because of the Double Rs i reckon… maybe fergie should consider keeping the Ronaldo Rooney pairing and subbing in Tevez for Berba when we need energy… but it seems to me the axis of the team would be the two Rs…
anyway, i agree with alot of you guys on the fact that the team was set up to play like shit… but damn fletcher was not having any of it… i reckon he has been our most consistant player in the season thus far…
Fletcher is da bomb! (good)
Ronaldo is the shit! (good)
Rooney can be the shit! (good)
Tevez was shit today, but i hope he can beat the shit (Bad but hopeful)
Rafael bombed today, but can be da bomb! (bad then good)
English isnt that hard…
November 6th, 2008 at 8:02
I miss Ruud….
I miss Ruuud
I miss Ruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuud
November 6th, 2008 at 8:05
RR and the Grog are always referring to specific posts via use of @. Like:
@Grognard
and then they get a link from the post they are referrring to.
but when I do @ command, I just get it as text.
How do I set up the post reference?
November 6th, 2008 at 8:07
@Grognard
Do they do it using link command? Or is there a trick command that easily does comment reference?
November 6th, 2008 at 8:14
@bond: How can you miss Ruud. He is uneccasarry!
@Madschester United: To leave a reply you see the sign next to. RedDevilEddy says: press that one and you have left a reply. For the links, you see a black box over the smiley faces. Open it and press link, but in the adress and mark the word that its supposed to be.
November 6th, 2008 at 8:18
@Manutd forever
I think schweinsteiger is quality but does not posses the speed that marks united’s game. Podolski, I have not watched enough to comment upon.
Good ideas though.
Nonetheless, Ronaldo >> EVERYONE else.
November 6th, 2008 at 8:21
@reddevileddy
considering the possesion and amount of chance we create,we need a predator…thats what Berbtv is supposed to do…but unfortunately he plays outside the box…and the last chance
…
that could make a difference in drawing porto or Juventus
November 6th, 2008 at 9:09
On retrospect, scoring against a 5-5-0 and then a 7-3-0 setup is difficult indeed. So I’m kinda okay with the draw.
Giggs was a liability yesterday in midfield, despite the goal. I can understand that Anderson was being saved for the Arsenal game. But… Might I ask why Park was kept on the bench??
November 6th, 2008 at 9:11
@Wink: Deal with it mate. Life isn’t always a bowl of cherries and I call things as I see them. I don’t need to apologize for that now do I?
November 6th, 2008 at 9:13
@Wink: Yes English is indeed not that hard. Try using it sometime.
It’s dam bomb
November 6th, 2008 at 9:17
@bond: Berbatov had three great chances to score last night and it happened within the eight yard box. He spends plenty of time inside the box. He just isn’t always receiving the best service in there.
November 6th, 2008 at 9:22
Tevez was disapointing yesterday but is a battler to say the least. I thought overall we had a great second half and Ben Foster looks to me to be the long term replacement for VDS even though he let a great shot in and didnt have to much to deal with, his composure especially with those kicks and his posession play was assuring.
Tevez if given the last 20 mins will score on saturday, mark my words. While I mentioned he was dissapointing I think Nani was more so and that may have been why Tevez was having to come deep to recover posession.
November 6th, 2008 at 9:49
Don’t get why everyone is upset - Celtic are no pushovers at home, and played some of the most effective defense I’ve ever seen. Their closing and commitment (for the full 90!) was an incredible testament to their desire and fitness, which surprised me given the relative ease of the SPL.
Credit where it’s due, that was a wonder goal from McDonald (though where our RB was I have no idea) and then they stuck to their task. No team would find it easy to score against them when they play like that. The number of times we had good chances only to be blocked by a diving challenge were uncountable.
From our side, ratings:
Foster - 7 - Wasn’t at fault for the goal, made one good save I can recall and did well coming for corners/crosses, even one that the Celtic player clearly tried to punch.
Rafael - 5 - Was overwhelmed in the first half, poor positionally and had some pretty terrible challenges. Seems to go to ground a bit easy. Offensively wasn’t as good when denied space, which is to be expected. Still raw and hopefully will learn.
Rio - 7.5 - No real mistakes and started getting forward in the second half well.
Vidic - 7.5 - Solid game, looked back to his best. Won every tussle in the air with a big CF. Distribution wasn’t as bad as usual.
O’Shea - 6.5 - Just not useful going forward. His first touch was poor and passing only okay, which often slowed us down. To be fair everytime he came up the pitch he and Nani would have 4 defenders on them, so could just be that. Seems slow.
Carrick - 7.5 - No idea why someone above was knocking him, he was a class act. Some of his one touch passes were out of this world, and with both feet. His role was to sit back and provide cover, and spray passes about and he did it to perfection.
Fletcher - 7 - Worked really hard and ensured we’d be under no pressure defensively in the second half. Tried a bunch of 1-2s but none came off due to the sheer number of Celtic bodies in the way. Pretty good game I thought.
Nani - 7 - No idea why he was taken off. Delivered some good looking crosses as always, and also did some covering.
Ronaldo - 8.5 - This was an incredibly important performance from Ronnie. Not only did he offer our biggest threat going forward, he always get his head up in tough circumstances, and showed real grit given the way he was being kicked. Also in about the 86th minute saw something I thought I’d never see - him chasing back into our half to win back a ball lost by a teammate.
Tevez - 5.5 - Pretty tough environment to get your one chance to shine. Regardless, he didn’t. If you’re the lone striker, you shouldn’t spend half the match on the halfway line.
Giggs - 6 - Fine he scored, but other than that offered absolutely nothing. Doesn’t work in that formation at all.
Fergie - 4 - Really poor team selection. Scraped a respectable point, but we could have won tonight with a better approach. Better win on Saturday, because we sacrificed tonight’s result for it.
November 6th, 2008 at 9:54
Berbatov had a good game yesterday barring a few stray passes. Agree the service to him wasn’t noteworthy, except the last one from Ronaldo, and even then it was quite a difficult one to convert.
November 6th, 2008 at 9:58
i thought Ronaldo was the best player on the pitch.
November 6th, 2008 at 10:00
@Beachryan: O’Shea & Giggs would get lower ratings from me, the rest are pretty much spot on.
Also, Rafael improved a lot after his first 20 mins which were a horror show. He made some good interceptions, couple of great crosses at least, some good runs, and looked like a fighter. His defending should improve over time, as experience would improve his positional sense.
November 6th, 2008 at 10:06
@Madschester United: you get the comment reference link by clicking the gray color arrow that appears next to “AndyCR7 says: [arrow]“…
November 6th, 2008 at 10:18
@bond: When was Berbatov signed as a predator?
November 6th, 2008 at 10:33
All this negativity is killing me.
Yes we were all over them and we couldn’t break them down until the pressure told and Giggsy equalised.
My first reaction is if you can’t win don’t lose. And I’d rather we got a draw than suffer a defeat like last time.
I don’t think the starting line up helped much, I didn’t like Ronaldo constandtly moaning (The Incredible Sulk), and I can’t believe Berbatov missed that chance. We paid £30 million for Berbatov and the miss was just unforgivable. Couldn’t believe it!
And Grognard your assessment of Raphael I couldn’t disagree more. Yes he was lively in attack but his defending was shocking. The whole team looked rocked by the atmosphere of the place and I think Raphael was affected more than most.
I do not tare the United team apart just because we have drawn in Europe.
We are still in the Champions League and still in the hunt for the Premiership. Let’s not be fickle.
On a side not the Celtic fans must be commended and it really just puts the Old Trafdford faithful to shame. I was listening to Talk Sport before the Hull City game on and apparently Stoke City have the loudest fans with an average level of over 100 decibels in the ground. United were very close to the worst with 60 decibels. Says it all really.
Why can’t United fans make that kinda noise? At the start of the game when “You’ll Never Walk Alone” was played and then turned off and the fans sung the rest of it was amazing. What a reception that was and a way to start the game. Why can’t United sing “We’ll Never Die” at the beginning of the game like that?
I will probably be verbally battered for that comment but respect where it is due. Celtic fans showed us how it should be done. They were brilliant at Old Trafford and brilliant at Celtic Park.
November 6th, 2008 at 10:33
Rafael reminds me of Evra when he first joined us. I’m confident he ( and his brother) will come good!
In the cold light of day a draw at Celtic isn’t a horrific result, especially as Villareal could only manage a draw against Aalborg.
Ronaldo was different class last night. Pretty much ALL of our penetration came through him and every time he had the ball he made something happen. What a talent.
November 6th, 2008 at 10:34
Nani seems to playing well with evra and fergie made a mistake by not playing evra and Nani together.o’shea should be used more in central positions rather than wide because of the pace required at wife positions which he completely seems to lack.
Without Nani our crossing suffers much like last night when our crosses struggled to get past even the first celtic defender.
November 6th, 2008 at 10:37
PS despite his goal Giggs was totally carried by the team and rarely touched the ball in the second half?
Love him as I do, it’s sad for me to see his career coming to an end in this way.
Having said that he will score a screamer now against Arsenal, rolling back the years… here’s hoping!
November 6th, 2008 at 11:03
@Grognard: Am not convinced…i think he plays most of the time behind rooney….while am satisfied with his overall Linkup play , am concerned abt his positioning….he is evrywhere just like rooney/Tevez…dats not what we needed right ?
November 6th, 2008 at 11:14
In my last post Instead of wife it should have wide.fault of the dictionary i use on my phone.
November 6th, 2008 at 11:44
Does this date ring any bells?
This is the day Alex Ferguson took over as manager of our beloved football club. I’d like to thank him for all the memories, and the excellence that he brought to Manchester United FC (we were a football club back then!) and of course his continuing tenure.
since Fergie took over this is his /our honours list:
First Division Champions:(2)
1988, 92
Prem League Champions:(10)
1993,94,96,97,99,2000,01,03,07,08 Runners up; 95,98,06
FA Cup:(5)
90,94,96,99,04 Runners Up;95,05,07
League Cup:(2)
92,06 Runners Up; 91,94,03
Charity/Community Shield:(8)
90,93,94,96,97,03,07,08 Runners Up;98,99,2000,01,04
Champions League:(2)
1999,2008
Cup Winners Cup:(1)
1991
What a record! We should celebrate the great man and what he’s done for us. Hey RR, how about a post just for Fergie? As a kid United were a good cup team but nowhere near Liverpool in the League, as we get ever closer to their haul of European and League titles, we have one man to thank for it,
Thanks Alex, I hope you enjoy a bottle or 2! of your favourite claret today, you deserve it
And you definitely knocked Liverpool off their perch
November 6th, 2008 at 11:46
November 6th, 2008 at 11:51
I meant to say when i was a kid, btw. I started following United in 1974, i was 5 then! How i suffered! The last 22 years more than made up for it!
November 6th, 2008 at 12:13
@Red Ranter: how about it then RR? a post dedicated to Fergie?
November 6th, 2008 at 12:25
Celtic played well last night.even though they might have been battered from us but their off ball movement and defending was quite well.BUT against the current crop of united players most of the teams are happy to even get away with a point against us.gordon strachan was also quite happy with a point.With that amount of possession united could have won but celtic’s defense and lack of final touch or the final ball from us.was just missing .
November 6th, 2008 at 12:51
@AlphaRS: You started your post with “All this negativity is killing me.” And then went on to say ” Let’s not be fickle.” In between those quotes you said, “We paid £30 million for Berbatov and the miss was just unforgivable. Couldn’t believe it!”
Er that was an amalgamation of all your points, so don’t start having a pop at Grognard, has he is entilted to his, more insightful view.
November 6th, 2008 at 13:08
http://www.goal.com/en/articolo.aspx?contenutoid=950269
a not so scouse-biased article.
November 6th, 2008 at 13:19
Excuse me for misprint
I just gave us 2 titles we didn’t win!
Should have read:
First Division Runners Up(2):
1988,92
November 6th, 2008 at 13:44
@phoenix red: Feck me Phoenix Bro, I never took you for a ‘don’t touch Fergie he’s sacrosanct’ CHEERLEADER
. But hey, each to his own. RR, ffs please don’t give us a sickly article ‘back slapping’ Fergie, he gets all that stuff from us lads on the terraces - thank you 
. This site is not the feckin oscars surely, its a rant blog Phoenix, and nobody is exempt from aftermatch RANTING, sorry mate.
November 6th, 2008 at 13:48
@JAy:
, I know what you mean about Giggsy, he can’t do what he has done in the past, but what a servant he’s been eh?.
November 6th, 2008 at 13:50
@Manutd forever: How wise you are Bro, we see eye to eye on Evra/Nani combination, they are good together
.
November 6th, 2008 at 13:56
@Craig Mc: Your man has had better games, but Celtic could not deal with his corners, I hope Fergie sticks with him for Saturday, but I have a horrible feeling he is going to go with Park, he seems to sometimes look for an excuse not to play Nani.
November 6th, 2008 at 14:00
Yeah, why do people now want Berba do be a finisher/goal poacher like Ruud? I’d rather have a few doses of magic even if he does miss the odd chances.
I remember seeing Berba miss quite a few “easy” chances for Spurs too. But that wasn’t why we bought him, i.e for tap-ins. He lifts our game to a whole new level.
In the end, we can’ blame Berba for not winning yesterday..it was a chance out of nothing because the defenders messed up, and it was an instinctive strike. Some go in, most don’t. I’ll happily take a draw provided we win at the Emirates.
November 6th, 2008 at 14:03
@AlphaRS: Alpha mate, Celtic fans are nearly ALL Scots/Irish fans from their local community, very few sandwich brigade I believe. So is Old Trafford were filled with only Salford Reds, the Manchester gang, the OT crew, and all local folk, you would know what passion was mate, because in the days of the Stretford End choir, the atmosphere was feckin electric, and louder than loud Bro. As for Stoke being the loudest, of course
, it will seem like that, because the old smaller compact grounds resonate more sound and echo. United’s ground is so feckin big now, the crowd gets lost in it. United board didn’t give a fuck about United fans when the did their rebuilding, because they FAILED to care like L’pool cared about tradition of keeping the KOP, and we lost the Streety end choir, who used to FILL the air with songs the whole bloody match. Fergie complains about the funeral atmosphere sometimes, but he didn’t CARE to support the fans who fought for preservation of the Stretty end. Or the board didn’t anyway 
.
November 6th, 2008 at 14:05
And why do people have so many problems with Fergie’s team selection? In the circumstances, it was one of the best teams he could have put out. Berba and Rooney have been playing non-stop for the past few weeks, this was the ONLY game he could have give them a break as well as give Tevez all the time he needs (though he didn’t do much to convince Fergie he deserves it). The game at the Emirates is 10x more important than the game at Parkhead. If we lose, it is DEFINITELY a big blow to our title chances as well as the fact that it gives Arsenal just the boost they need. Look at how pumped up (and lucky) Liverpool have been since their win over us!
November 6th, 2008 at 14:11
@Stephen: I think Nani knows that Stephen, and that is why I believe if it continues, he will be OFF. Park is a hard worker, but he is always pushed over every tackle
.
November 6th, 2008 at 14:14
@Craig Mc: He is the Ying to Nani’s Yang, hard working but has absolutly no quality, not saying Nani doesn’t work because he does, but Park is industrious.
November 6th, 2008 at 14:28
@Grognard: Grog says, “if you call somebody a mate here in Canada, that means you are SLEEPING with him”.
, Grog, that would mean I have slept with almost everybody I talk too 
, what a WHORE I am eh? 
. Don’t tell the GF though will you?. No wonder I am always FATIGUED 
.
November 6th, 2008 at 14:32
@Stephen:
, I imagine you are industrious at your job, but if you were falling on your arse all the time, wouldn’t everyone want you evicted? 
. No wonder he is called Park, his arse is so often Park-ed on the turf 
. O dear, was that lame or what?. 
.
November 6th, 2008 at 14:39
@Manutd forever: I want Zaki, I want Zaki, I want Zaki
.
November 6th, 2008 at 14:42
@Fred The Red: Bravo Fred, could not have said it better myself
.
November 6th, 2008 at 14:45
Boy, i’m still riding the euphoria from last night’s game
It was simply awesome, we didn’t get a win, but was it entertaining!! We had pace, directness, hunger and desire, none more so than Ronaldo. The lad was a man on a mission!! I’m glad to see him returning to his best and also gradually abandoning his whiny kid routine. He was kicked numerous times last night, but he rarely went to ground and that’s good to see. He seems to be enjoying his football more and long may it continue 
This weekend is gonna be another thriller, gonna bite my nails thru to the skin
the general consensus seems to be we’re gauranteed a victory, but I gaurantee Arsene and his gunners will be up for it and I expect a very open, box-to-box match. Hopefully, we can show the same hunger and attacking drive as last night at the emirates. If we do, along with the Roonatov, I promise y’all we’ll score 2 or more goals against the Arse. 
November 6th, 2008 at 14:49
@Rd: Tevez DID talk to the Argentina media, they had direct quotes from him. Anyway, we agree to differ Rd, thats sits ok with me Bro.
.
November 6th, 2008 at 15:05
@Stephen:
I was being sarcastic with my comment about Berbatov and was not having a pop at anybody. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion and that is why we are on a blog. I have an opinon and I air it. So does everybody else. But if you wish me to keep my opinions to myself because they are less insightful than others then apologies please skip my posts.
@Craig Mc:
You make some very good points. I sit in the East Stand and the atmosphere isn’t very good. And yet I do sing alot but it’s a shame everybody isn’t committed to making noise!
Whatever the reasons are why we haven’t got that at Old Trafford I wish we did have that atmosphere because I think some of the players were shaken by it.
November 6th, 2008 at 15:10
Anyone else think the Celtic fans performance of You’ll Never Walk Alone before kick off was pretty awe-inspiring? (Although I couldn’t help but chuckle at the audible Scottish accent on “Alone”). Why don’t we have an Anthem to intimidate our foes and put courage into the hearts of our own players?
November 6th, 2008 at 15:12
I know that many of us like Zaki And he is a class too but even if he is signed then Tevez will probably leave and even after that there is no surety that Zaki would be a first choice striker and will play for continuation in matches as rooney and berba seems to clear choice for SAF right now.also Zaki will take time to gel with the our strikers whereas Tevez is already pretty good at it (remember the goal against boro last season and)and i think he needs time with berba.According to me Tevez really needs gametime(probably 2-3 games in a row) and with rooney or berba(SAF is giving him his gametime with giggs which is frustating him and all of us) play him once every 2 games and you will see the difference . United currently need a solid anchor man in the middle who can allow our attackers more freedom someone like ENGElaar?
what do u all think about Engelaar?
November 6th, 2008 at 15:13
@AlphaRS: I must have mis read your sarcasm then.
@Craig Mc: Park in my view is an average player playing in a great team, with no quality.
November 6th, 2008 at 15:13
DOes aNyOne Know, whether Sagna is injured for saturday match.
November 6th, 2008 at 15:13
I know that many of us like Zaki And he is great striker too but even if he is signed then Tevez will probably leave and even after that there is no surety that Zaki would be a first choice striker and will play for continuation in matches as rooney and berba seems to clear choice for SAF right now.also Zaki will take time to gel with the our strikers whereas Tevez is already pretty good at it (remember the goal against boro last season and)and i think he needs time with berba.According to me Tevez really needs gametime(probably 2-3 games in a row) and with rooney or berba(SAF is giving him his gametime with giggs which is frustating him and all of us) play him once every 2 games and you will see the difference . United currently need a solid anchor man in the middle who can allow our attackers more freedom someone like ENGElaar?
what do u all think about Engelaar?
November 6th, 2008 at 15:14
@Craig Mc:I know that many of us like Zaki And he is great striker too but even if he is signed then Tevez will probably leave and even after that there is no surety that Zaki would be a first choice striker and will play for continuation in matches as rooney and berba seems to clear choice for SAF right now.also Zaki will take time to gel with the our strikers whereas Tevez is already pretty good at it (remember the goal against boro last season and)and i think he needs time with berba.According to me Tevez really needs gametime(probably 2-3 games in a row) and with rooney or berba(SAF is giving him his gametime with giggs which is frustating him and all of us) play him once every 2 games and you will see the difference . United currently need a solid anchor man in the middle who can allow our attackers more freedom someone like ENGElaar?
what do u all think about Engelaar?
November 6th, 2008 at 15:20
@JAy: The one time I was fortunate enuff to go to OT, the atmosphere was really tepid. Although it was against Derby and I sat a couple of meters from the dug-out, I expected at least some cheering, but there was none. How I wish I sat at the stretford end, those geezers were cheering all thru the match.
It probably has to do with all the non-regulars at the stadium. We are a global club, and get multitudes of tourists and even neutral fans attending matches at OT. Maybe they should make two sections for the regular fans, like another stretford end opposite to the present one, then the singing can be more widespread thru the ground.
November 6th, 2008 at 15:23
@Craig Mc: my intention was not a back slapping exercise, its just, as an ardent United fan, i think credit given where its due. I’ve supported our club through thick and thin and i’m old enough to remember the not so glory days.
This is the greatest manager I’ve seen in my lifetime, does his service not mean anything to you? So make it critical or whatever? 
BTW I’m not a blinkered fan, if i dont agree with what Fergie is doing, I’ll say it. Generally i’m not afraid to express myself, no matter what the consequences. My post has nothing to do with last nights match,(didn’t see it/ working 
) just todays date. I would hope that other United fans could recognise this and acknowledge it 
Am i asking too much? 
Initially i wasn’t a big fan of Fergie,(he practically sacked all the irish{heavy drinkers!} players) it took awhile but i changed my mind.
Today is the 22nd anniversary of his arrival. So you dont want any United fans to acknowledge or celebrate his achievements? Why not FFS?
November 6th, 2008 at 15:29
Sorry for sending it 3 times but phone’s pretty cramped up and as i live in india the network does not help either so don’t be surprised to see my same comments more than once.REALLY SOrry BUT CAN’t Help it.
November 6th, 2008 at 15:32
Park was pretty good pre-injury. He doesn’t just work hard, his positional sense was class and his short passing was great. Never a good finisher or great crosser, but a useful presence.
I think we should just go at Arsenal. Try to exploit their current frailities. I’m worried one of us gonna get sent off because of Wenger’s latest whinings, but if we get in their face they’re going to be in trouble with that midfield. I can’t decide whether to go with an approach similar to the one we took at Chelsea, or to go all out ala the FA Cup last season. Given their current frailities, might be best to go big:
———–VDS———
-Gary-Rio—Vidic–Evra-
—-Carrick-Anderson—
-Ronaldo———Nani–
—-Rooney–Berba——
With a view to replace Nani with Fletcher if we go up, and shift to a more packed midfield to deal with their passing. Danger with that formation is that we’re open, but the advantage is we’ll definitely peg back their runners, and can be awesome on the break.
Am gutted as I have lunch plans…3rd straight L’arse game I’ve missed.
November 6th, 2008 at 15:34
@Beachryan: Lunch plans what!?!?!?!?
Good team though mate.
November 6th, 2008 at 15:36
@phoenix red: Phoenix
sorry Bro, I missed the thrust of your post. I didn’t realise it was 22 years anniversary of Fergie’s arrival at OT. Course this day should be celebrated. I thought you were going on about people who had opinions about Fergie’s team selections and tactical nous, substitutions etc. So great apologies mate, and I WILL of course be only too happy to celebrate THIS anniversary day with you 
.
November 6th, 2008 at 15:36
@phoenix red: We recognise mate
Fergie’s a legend!!! I can’t still picture United without him 
he’s the only manager that has been in charge of United since i began suporting them… that’s just extraordinary!! 
I reckon the lads should give him an annivesary present by trashing the Arse on saturday, that would be near perfect.
It would have been perfect if they defeated the hoops at Celtic park last night, i’m sure that’ll have made Fergie giddy with joy. 
November 6th, 2008 at 15:45
@Manutd forever: But Zaki didn’t take time to settle with the Wigan players, he was away scoring almost immediately, so it seems. I think he knows where the goals are, and is always making good scoring positions, and space to shoot in tight games. Perhaps it is a little early to judge, but what I have seen he is a great player. Its his first season, and only a few games into it, but the big boys are after him behind the scenes I understand
.
November 6th, 2008 at 15:45
@Beachryan: Great formation mate!!! I was contemplating about Fletch gettin a look in, but with carrick getting back in form and Ando already rested, ur midfield combo is just right. Shame Brown is injured, I really prefer him to any of our other options at RB.
Berba, Rooney and Ronaldo are gonna be charged up for this match; Berba for his last-minute miss against Celtic, Rooney for his 100th club career goal and Ronaldo for his 100th United career goal.
We’re gonna destroy those kids 
hope silvestre plays, maybe he would do us a favour and stick one in the arsenal net, eh? 
November 6th, 2008 at 16:20
Happy anniversary Fergie from the FA, they just charged you with improper conduct towards ref Mike Dean following the Hull game
. Also Silvestre may have a broken nose according to reports, never rains but it pours eh?.
November 6th, 2008 at 16:27
@AlphaRS: I agree mate. You only have to look at our atmosphere on CL match nights at OT, pretty awesome. This is because they are usually midweek games, and therefore a lot of people don’t travel obviously, SO the locals are in en masse. Local support en masse, means RAUCOUS, BAWDY entertainment, as Celtic fans came in for at OT. We need our designated singing sections back IN FULL, and preferably leaders of the on terrace singing. MUTV is there to be used to get the fans to respond to encouragements, but it needs someone with time on their hands to organise the whole singing thing
.
November 6th, 2008 at 17:44
@Craig Mc: The atmosphere on evening games is still decent at Ot, the problem for me is lack of 3pm KO’s on a Saturday.
November 6th, 2008 at 17:44
@Craig Mc: i knew there was crossed wires in there somewhere
i’ve been left scratching my head too wondering, wrt his tactics, selections and substitutions. Then after calling his wisdom into question last year, we win the double! So i’m not so quick off the mark with critism anymore, well what the fuck do i know anyway?
to quote a former manager, one of the many Fergie has seen come and go 
BTW i missed last nights game due to work
Thats a personal thing, i dont expect any of the rest of you to ease up when you percieve that there’s somat amiss, nor should you! Its all about love anyway, and i fucking love what Fergie has brought to our club, the players, the silverware, the winning attitude and above all the football, it will be a sad day indeed when he leaves us. Before that though, can we win another 4 titles, and another 4 european cups, and laugh at those scouse bastards who dont know where the perch is anymore!!
As far as the FA is concerned, they can Fuck Off, what have they ever done for us anyway? Fuckin Hypocrites! Am a bit worried about Fergies’ touchline ban though
@Gabriel: “i’d love it, just love it, if we beat them”
In Fergie We Trust
November 6th, 2008 at 18:59
@phoenix red: And his reward for 22 years of magic is he has been charged for misconduct by the FA for letting that muppet who reffed the game on Saturday have it.
November 6th, 2008 at 19:09
@Craig Mc: That would be an accusation only if you lived in Canada mate.
It’s funny but I find that I use that term more and more outside of my home and I do occasionally get funny looks from people. Oh they know what it means because it’s not like we are oblivious to English culture here, but they are also so Americanized that some look at it as a bit of a sexual threat. But then again our neighbors to the south have had George Bush as President for eight years so stupidity and ignorance runs rampant down there and it occasionally filters through over the 49th Parallel too. 
November 6th, 2008 at 19:10
@Craig Mc: I hope the GF does not read your posts here for her daily dose of humor or you are totally fucked.
November 6th, 2008 at 19:12
@Craig Mc: I want Ibisevic, I want Ibisevic, I want Ibisevic!!!!!!!!
November 6th, 2008 at 19:30
@RedDevilEddy: Thanks for the tip!
@phoenix red: Bloody hell, Fergie is legend!
Arsenal is going to be demolished this weekend. We need to show NO MERCY to these kids. We need to be physical and lethal up front and we will win 4+-1.
November 6th, 2008 at 19:33
@Grognard: Groggy! You gotta play Gears Of War 2! Of my God. This time the boss is FREAKIN Scary!
November 6th, 2008 at 19:50
I am still wondering what had Tevez had done wrong to be left out like this from the team. Tevez was our best player in our pre season and initial games where everyone said that he and Rooney is going to be the most dangerous striking pair in the world..With Ronaldo it would be a scary attack..Suddenly he is out of form, he is shite, he is a non worthy luxurious asset we have…
2-3 years back he was one of the dangerous players in the world who was compared to as a successor to Maradona…he scored goals and beautiful ones in Brazil and Argentina…He started slow but blend nicely into English football and jeez was such an important member of the team last term who played a big part in that fluid attack we had..
I pity for the player who is full of passion and desire which depicts Manchester United…its sad to see him unrecognized like this..He deserve more..
November 6th, 2008 at 19:54
This game with Arsenal is going to be a defining game for both teams this season. For Arsenal who already have lost three times it really is do or die. With four losses and three or four teams ahead of them it will be almost impossible to win the title. They would pretty well have to go undefeated the rest of the way for a chance. And we know from their youth, inexperience and lack of quality at some key positions (ie; DMF) that the chances of that happening are slim and none.
For United the game is also vital. Sure they can lose it and not lose their chance on winning the title but they to are in a position where they will be chasing two clubs who are just not dropping too many points and who are incredibly tough at home too. Arsenal is coming into the game in poor form. They lost in the EPL and had a 0-0 draw in the CL. They are ripe for the picking. We should go in there and beat them by 2-0 or 3-1 but lets face it, we are not playing well right now either. Our defensive game has sprung some leaks and offensively we still have not fired on all cylinders and we continually screw up either by doing too much in the attacking end or by finishing like a third rate team. We need to be more clinical and we also need to finally get all players playing from the same page in the book.
This year’s squad has shown major weaknesses where last year’s didn’t after the first month of the season passed. Berbatov has been a great purchase but we still have problems getting him the ball whether from a wide position or through the middle. On the other hand he has set up a number of goals for teammates. It’s time the favor was returned. Rooney was really hot for a while and it seems that he is in one of his cycles again because he hasn’t scored in the last three games he has played. No major panic but his streakiness is very frustrating considering Tevez has been a no show all season long. I honestly believed his energy and desire would make him a great super sub but his ego and pride has not been able to deal with this change. If you go back to the Summer I predicted that there would be a possibility of this happening. That one of two things would happen. That Tevez was going to be the second coming of Solksjaer or that he would sulk and withdraw and become selfish and bitter which would lead to his eventual departure at season’s end. Well I’m here to say that Carlito may be gone in January if United can find a good #3 striker or if they feel Manucho or Welbeck are up for the job. Tevez is working hard but he seems to be doing what he wants and has long lost the desire to follow SAF’s team instructions. He doesn’t like his backup role and he feels that Fergy has ruined his game. The same game that scored almost 20 goals last season. Perhaps he has a point because lets face it, Fergie has done things with Wayne Rooney that none of us agreed with and we questioned on many many occasions.
So what now? We go to the Emirates with a fairly healthy team while Arsenal are a little bruised and battered. They are lacking confidence but of course they will turn the heat and intensity up for this one. Wenger will have them ready and prepared to play a great game against us. I am worried. Why? For the reasons above and for the biggest reason of all. This team is not showing the intensity and desire of past teams and their concentration and focus has been sub par all season long. Add to that Fergie’s Rafa-like rotations and negative and slow first half tactics on the road and I truly fear what may happen.
United have done tremendously well considering the brutal first half schedule but they also have had no breaks from front runners Chelsea and Liverpool. Both those teams have dropped very few points. Yes our schedule will be easier in the second half but we cannot afford to fall 7 to 10 points behind the leaders and then expect them to drop that many points. We have much more room for error than Arsenal but lets face it, we know historically over the past five seasons that Chelsea just do not lose many games. I fully expect Liverpool to eventually implode, but Chelsea have continued to win with half their team injured and in the infirmary. That’s very impressive. We on the other hand are missing Paul Scholes and Hargo. Not much bad luck for us and yet, we cannot seem to get our “A” game fully functioning. Berbatov has been wonderful but the transition involving him has not always been smooth and it’s taken Ronaldo time to get fit and sharp and his free kicks are still sucking big time. I think we really miss Hargo. He added stability to our defensive and containment game while also adding a little offensive punch too. Come Jnauary, we need to look at either one of two things. A winger if Nani does not come around or a DMF genius who will take over for Hargo.
As for the game on Saturday, we should beat them but I will go on record and say that we will lose. We always suck after a CL game when we have to play the following weekend on the road. Had we played well enough on Wednesday to allow Berbatov, Evra and Rooney a full game’s rest maybe would fare better, but we didn’t. Sorry for my negativity but I am getting a little tired of us going to the Emirates and Stamford Bridge and never come out with a win when in my heart and soul I know we are the better team. And once again we will go there at a time when the opponent is vulnerable and Fergie’s ultra cautious approach will cost us. Look for Park to start. Final score, Arsenal 2 Man Utd 1. We will be great for the first 20 minutes and then we will will fall into our shell. We may even have the lead but I feel we will lose. Wenger will have his boys ready for Fergie’s chicken shit road tactics. I love Fergie but he has a team that should never play defensively, and yet we so often do. Yesterday’s first half was such a perfect example of chicken shit tactics against a team that had it’s top two strikers missing due to injury. So what does Fergie do, he starts Tevez up front all by himself.
November 6th, 2008 at 20:01
@Red Diablo: I have never been a big fan of Gears. Personally it looks depressing as Hell and I hate the way the characters are drawn to look like steroid injected super freaks. I mean the movie will probably cast members from the WWE to star in it. I much prefer Halo 3. My idea of a great game requires a little more thinking and exploring. I absolutely love “Mass Effect” and “Assassin’s Creed”. Those are tremendous games with far superior story lines and require much more thinking and exploration and far less carnage. Also, I am staying away from Gears this time because of my health. My heart is still recovering from my years of abuse and neglect and I need to stay away from such stressful games that don’t give you a break, but that are always hectic and intense. Gears is too much in my face for me to handle that stress right now. I am looking forward to buying Tom Clancy’s End War tomorrow. Military strategy and tactics in a WWIII scenario. All voice activated commands too. Now that is ground breaking stuff. Check the game out online. You might be impressed. Truthfully, I am pretty tired and bored of 3D shooters. Have fun with Gears. Those fucking Locusts!!
November 6th, 2008 at 20:24
@Grognard: I too have a sneaky feeling about this weekend. Lets all hope it goes well
P.S Once people start talking about games I cant help myself. I get the feeling you dont like COD, but this is a hell of a trailer nonetheless. Enjoy
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/42425.html
November 6th, 2008 at 20:56
Hey guys, a poll for you:
Who is better, Ronnie slave or this guy?
I’m especially interested in the “younger” posters here on redrants. I have a hunch they might not have seen this guy play at his peak…
November 6th, 2008 at 20:59
This one’s not too bad also…
Frightening pace
November 6th, 2008 at 21:16
@NicoQB: Sorry But. This One Outshines them all!
November 6th, 2008 at 21:35
I cannot imagine us buying in January unless it is wrapping up the Tevez deal or buying a replacement. Really Tevez seems to be the odd man out. Berbatov and Rooney are much more creative players and Tevez isn’t exactly a prolific goalscorer. I think we really need someone prolific who can come on when our other players are firing blanks.
Who are these Hoffenheim guys?
November 6th, 2008 at 21:51
@Red Diablo: Of course, Georgie Best wears his name perfectly.
But hey, all three were one a million, but i just wanted to know objectively who you’d choose between Ronnie right now and the other guy at his peak.
November 6th, 2008 at 21:59
@NicoQB: The slave and I say that with Giggs my favorite United player of the modern era. At his absolute peak Giggs could have been the best player in the world. Just look at his demolition jobs of Porto, Deportivo and Juventus back in the day. That said he was never able to recreate that form on a long term, consistent basis.
Ronaldo on the other hand has shown a higher overall level of performance over the past two seasons than Giggs has managed. On a given day there isn’t much in it but over the course of a season Ronaldo takes it easily.
November 6th, 2008 at 22:05
@edi: Actually I am a hard core COD fan. But the Pacific Theater of WW2 has never fascinated me like the European one. Besides, there are too many WW2 shooters out there. I’m still having fun with the latest Brothers in Arms game.
November 6th, 2008 at 22:22
@Grognard: Yeah I love COD too. Played every single one. Own all but two. WAW looks intense though, for my money, its gonna match COD4. (Bold I know)
I got BIA too! the solo missions annoy me though. They should make a Bastogne one. (You know, like ‘Band Of Brothers’……)
November 6th, 2008 at 22:51
@NicoQB:
Great tribute to Giggs who to me on his day was world class and is a utd legend without doubt.
I think Ronaldo has more to his game than Giggs. He is a better finisher, better in the air (ironic after wed nte) can find himself in better goal scoring positions and isnt as one footed as Giggs.
That said, dribbling, when Giggs was at the top of his game was a good as Ronaldo if not better. I remember watching Giggs and when he set off on a run I used to be on the edge of my seat everytime shouting at the TV “GO ON GIGGSY” it was fantastic to watch. A slippery wee fecker who used to scare the shit out of defenders. FA cup goal against Arsenal was a classic example and one years ago I think it was aginst QPR when about 2 or 3 defenders ended up on the arses and Giggs put the ball in the back of the net. Fucking brilliant!
Another thing about Giggs dribbling over Ronaldo is that when Giggs was fouled or tackle and they were lunged in at him he rode the tackle and carried on. Ronaldo the majority of the time will go down at the slightest contact. I hate making comparisons but watching george best and Ryan Giggs the comparions are amazing.
Also with Giggs his tackling is brilliant. I know he doesnt do alot of it but when he tackles a player they are always the cleanest classiest tackles where he just whisks the ball away from the opponents feet. Fantastic!
Thing with Giggs as well is he’s got the head for the game. He may have lost the pace and his seasons are definately numbered. But he has lost his electric pace for a good few seasons now but he still has what it takes up stairs to cut the mustard at the highest level. Same kinda style as Teddy Sheringham. Will Ronaldo be able to adapt when the time comes for him.
Most importantly for me he is utd through and through. There was never any doubt from the first time he kicked a ball for utd that he would be looking away to another team.
Put all that together and you see the silverware the man has won. Has over taken Alan Hansens record for league titles what 2 3 seasons ago now.
Do you think Ronaldo will have as much silverware as Giggsy when he finishes.
November 6th, 2008 at 22:57
@JB: I agree with what you say a bout Giggs lack of consistency. Its just a crying shame that he always seemed to be nagged with injuries, especially during what was supposed to be the peak years of his career.
And Giggs like Rooney at the time can take a fair few games before regaining his world class form.
That an Italian team of the time when Italy was supposedly the best league was ready to break the bank for what was it 15million when 3 million was still considered expensive says it all…
Personally I would still take the inconsistent Giggs over Ronaldo. Because Giggs was so much more of a team player.
And he was hands down a better dribbler - less fancy tricks but so much penetration.
Even at his peak he could take a fair few games before finding his form. I wonder what would happen if we were struck with an winger injury crisis! I’d give an FA cup victory just to see that old Ryan Giggs weave his magic!!
November 6th, 2008 at 22:59
Giggsy in his prime and in full flight was a thing of athletic beauty, wish he was 24 again, but if you take the best of Giggys strengths and cross them with Ronaldos, you would end up with George Best, frightening thought.
November 6th, 2008 at 23:03
@Fred The Red:
Testimony to George Best’s brilliance where you take 2 unbelievable players of the modern game put their strengths together and you get george best.
What he footballer he was.
November 6th, 2008 at 23:05
@NicoQB: I agree, better dribbler, more of a team player, probably a superior football brain but then again Ronaldo can come up with approximately 100 goals and assists in two seasons. Giggs has nothing on that I’m afraid.
November 6th, 2008 at 23:07
@NicoQB: Nico Bro, you take inconsistant Giggsy then, I’ll take 42 goal Ronnie anyday
.
November 6th, 2008 at 23:07
@colver: Tevez scored 19 goals last season…how can u say thats not prolific?! If you read my posts earlier on in this thread, you’ll see that I spent a large part of yesterday evening sticking up for my homeboy Carlitos against an large witchhunt against him on this site, so read my posts to see why I think he is vital to the team.
November 6th, 2008 at 23:13
@scoop: Yes mate, Bestie was an absolute geniuos of a player and in my opinion arguably the most naturally talented footballer ever to play the game, but some people would say that I am biased coz he and his family lived 2 miles up the road from me in East Belfast.
November 6th, 2008 at 23:14
@scoop: True, true… Ronaldo is perhaps the most complete attacking player I’ve ever seen. If he wanted he could also be a great passer and crosser of the ball but I think he’s much too selfish for that!
On the other hand, Giggs’ crossing sometimes could be questioned. But watching him single handedly destroy entire defences was the equivalent of a footballing orgasm. I’ll never root for Ronny the way I’ve done for Giggs. Cantona was a genius on the ball, and inspired everyone at United with his game ethos and leadership, but from a purely footballing point of view I’m tempted to rate Giggs as a better player!
I wonder if he’ll go into management as others have done before.. Apparently he’s already done his badges…
Del Piero: “This is embarrassing to say but I have cried twice in my life watching football players, the 1st was Roberto Baggio, the 2nd was Ryan Giggs”
November 6th, 2008 at 23:15
@JB: JB, Ronnie beats everybody at OT in the most important area of all - PERSONAL DRIVE. He is driven to excel. Because of this, he puts many UNited players to shame, because he keeps himself in tip top shape, and works harder than anybody at his game. Besty had genious, but he destroyed himself, and stole from the fans a God given fantastic talent, from which he could have mesmorised fans for many years. In his era, nobody came close to him, but he did not look after himself or his body
. Ronnie has a different mentality. N. Ireland fans were robbed of what may have been the gaining of a world cup, because Besty let himself and everybody else down. Yet Besty had the right name, because HE TRULY was the BEST 
.
November 6th, 2008 at 23:19
@NicoQB Giggsy better than Cantona -
, no feckin way Bro. Cantona could affect a game far more CONSISTENTLY than Giggsy, even when Giggsy was at his best. There’s no contest, Cantona is King.
November 6th, 2008 at 23:23
@Craig Mc: I agree Bestie did not not reach his full potential coz of his lifestyle, which is why I said he was the most naturally talented player instead of the most sucessful, if Bestie had looked after himself like Ronaldo then there would not have been a debate about who was the best player of all time.
November 6th, 2008 at 23:25
@Nino: 19 goals is far from prolific considering he played almost 50 games in all. It’s certainly not bad but it’s far from prolific. Ronaldo’s 42 goals is the true definition of prolific. What RVN used to do with us is prolific. Scoring a goal every four games is not prolific. Sorry.
November 6th, 2008 at 23:26
@Craig Mc: Touche Bro. Cantona is definitely the King. Long Live the King!!
November 6th, 2008 at 23:26
@Grognard:
, I’ll fight you Grog. Lets give them both a trial at United, and I bet Zaki comes out on top - and if he doesn’t, I’ll get your Christmas present to bruise you real bad 
. Zaki, Zaki, Zaki. I do LOVE players whose names end with an I 
, Nani, Zaki. Bring him in. Please everyone submit any great players you know, whose name end with the letter i, because I am going to start my own team, and whip everyone’s arses 
.
November 6th, 2008 at 23:32
@Fred The Red:
No way mate my mums from Ravenhill ave and my Granda used to teach George Best in Sunday school class at Ravenhill Presby church. Granda always said he was the most polite quietest young fella’s he ever had the pleasure of teaching.
George’s sisters would always be telling mum and my aunts about how our George was playing for Man Utd and our George was doing this and doing that.
Small world. Great wee part of the world the woodstock and the Creagh Rd
November 6th, 2008 at 23:42
@Grognard: It seems that we have differing definitions of the term ‘prolific’. For me, my definition of ‘prolific’ would also relate to the position a player occupied on the pitch. For example, a defender who scores 10 goals in a season would be prolific in my book, but perhaps not in yours if you are just looking at raw figures. (The closest example to the above hypothetical scenario I can think of is William Gallas, who I notice does seem to get on the scoresheet regularly for L’Arse and probably averages 5-6 goals a season).
So considering Tevez is not an out-and-out striker a la RVN, I think his tally is great and he fulfils the role of a 20-goal a season striker that every (successful!) team needs to have. If someone like Del Piero, Raul or Kaka (who all play the support striker role that Tevez plays) scored 20 goals in a season they would be rightfully lauded too, but Tevez does not seem to get the credit he deserves. I remember one season (I think it was 2004/05) - Tevez was crowned as the most prolific striker in world soccer…so go figure
November 6th, 2008 at 23:44
@NicoQB:
Yeah some of those testimonies from legends of the game about Giggs are unbelievable just goes to show. Powerful words from Del Piero.
I have to say though mate about being better than Cantona footballing wise is a big statement not so sure about that one but to watch on his day was gripping stuff.
As great as Ronaldo is he has never got me as excited as I used to get watching Giggs streaking down the wing. You could almost smell the shit running down the defenders lgs as Giggs ran at them.
I guess if he has done his badges then he must be thinking about coaching. I’d say there will be a job at utd for him anyway if he wanted in some capacity kinda like ole. Hope he does stay on it will be a sad day if he moves on from OT
November 6th, 2008 at 23:49
@Grognard: Actually considering we’ve only conceded 2goals more than we had by this time last season and this time last season we’ve only played the smaller teams and hadn’t played most of our bogey teams, i don’t see this “defensive leak” everyone is complaining about.
@AlphaRS:
@Craig Mc: I’ll have to agree with Craig here, yes I haven’t forgotten Giggsy running down the wings with his speed and dribbling, but I’d still rate King Eric above him
@phoenix red: Thats 29 honours in 22years. Yes I’d have really liked a post dedicated to this, we really don’t know what we’ve got in Fergie and by the time he leaves probably at the end of next season, I really think thats when some fans will really appreciate what we’ve got in SAF.
@AlphaRS: I agree with the whiny over- negative part. I’m not sure if you were at the game, but most reds I’ve talked to who were there said the so-called Celtic atmosphere is a myth and it wasn’t even that good. Brilliant @ OT??? Maybe, but we definitely still unsung them
@Beachryan: Fairest ratings I’ve seen so far, i can’t believe someone thought Carrick didn’t play well.
November 6th, 2008 at 23:58
@Craig Mc: Haha, it all comes down to consistency does it…
Just yesterday I was moaning about how Tevez and Hargreaves can be inconsistent. But my point here is that there is absolutely no doubt that when Giggs is playing at his peak he is better than any player you can think of, and that includes Cantona at his peak. (most united players acknoledged that)
If we go into statistics we’ll see that Cantona had a good scoring ratio, but we should remember the fact that he scored many penalties during his time. Not dissing him, of course, but only noting that Giggs never needed penalties to have very good statistics for a winger.
Of course that’s where the comparison makes Ronnie’s stats even more unreal….
November 7th, 2008 at 0:18
Just a quick question i have 2 ask, is gattuso getting any games at milan or r ambrosini and flamini now ahead of him in the pecking order. People who regularly read my posts will know that i feel we need another defensive midfield 2 be the enforcer in the team and whilst hargreaves does do that when he is fit i feel he may become saha mkII. If we made our interest known in gattuso i reckon he wud jump at the chance as he has regulalrly stated his desire to play in england. Could be worth a try in jan if hes not getting regular action huh?
November 7th, 2008 at 0:43
@scoop: Small world indeed mate, I live in Bloomfeild and I can see the Cregagh flats beside Besties old house from my bedroom window
November 7th, 2008 at 1:26
Hullo Nelson Otieno and Mr. Muhozi!!!
I know you guys are brazilian or at least understand portuguese if I’m not mistaken… Would you do me a favor and translate this for me, or else you could give me a vague idea what the story lie behind the words? I’ve done a guitar chord transcription of a song I don’t even understand a single word of… too much time on my hands 
No céu da minha rua
Da Alfama não chama,
Nem prende as intenções.
Às vezes nem a lua
Lá mora, embora
Lá chegue em seus clarões
Mutilados a telhados
Que se abraçam fraternais
E o céu da minha rua
A lua, recua
Limita-se aos beirais
Com Alfama céu não rima
Porque sempre o céu é pouco
Quando olhamos lá pra cima.
Mas o céu não nega o troco
Cá embaixo a quem se estima
Vai daí ser voz corrente
Que na Alfama toda a gente
Traz o céu no coração
É feliz por natureza
Ninguém pede mais riqueza
Que saúde, amor e pão!
November 7th, 2008 at 2:02
@Craig Mc: I’ve got nothing against Zaki. If anything he has proven he can play in the EPL, but Ibisevic is a great player and his pace as well as his poaching ability is a great combination. Tevez is just not a poacher. And really, he doesn’t have great pace although he has quick feet. Short stubby legs don’t do it for me as a striker. I’d welcome Zaki over Tevez but then again, I’d put out the red carpet for Huntelaar or Ibisevic.
November 7th, 2008 at 2:04
@Nino: The point is Tevez is a striker whether you like to admit it or not. He is not a winger nor is he a midfielder. Even as a CF he is not prolific enough. Ronaldo is a winger for God’s sake and he scored 42 goals. Is there a word that takes prolific and multiplies it by ten?
November 7th, 2008 at 2:07
@Rd: Brown isnot playing regualarly and not playing well enough. Rio has been good but has had a few howler games and Evra has been a little lax in his defensive duties this season. Add to that no Hargo and no Carrick until now and also no Scholes to settle us down and yes, we are struggling defensively. Also, EVDS has not played that well this season. It’s not a major struggle but it is there. Perhaps if our offense was clicking better and not botching up so many chances, then we might not even care about giving up the odd goal.
November 7th, 2008 at 3:01
how tall is Foster? i think EVDS is taller right? Perhaps Edwin could have saved that Celtic goal with his height and jump? Also, lets sign Zaki! the new MU supersub!
November 7th, 2008 at 3:04
is Football manager 2009 out? or the pirated version is out?
November 7th, 2008 at 3:10
@Grognard: Grog, you, me and practically every other United supporter out there knows that what Slave Boy did last season was a one-off (only time will prove otherwise), so I can’t believe that you would use something like that as a yardstick to measure how prolific a forward should be.
November 7th, 2008 at 3:11
watsup people? sell tevez and buy ZAKI!!!!
November 7th, 2008 at 3:13
foster is short! EVDS would had saved that celtic goal with his height and jump!
November 7th, 2008 at 3:21
@Nino: It doesn’t matter if he did it once or half a dozen times. Based on last season he was prolific. That’s not to say he will always be prolific. RVN has always been proliofic, Alan Shearer, Gerd Mueller, Pele are a few historic names who were prolific their entire careers. Guys who scored an average of at least 20 goals a season in just their domestic leagues alone. Not 19 total goals in every competition. Hell Frank Lampard and other midfielders like Steve Gerrard and others have had seasons where they scored that many goals in all competitions. Hardly a great endorsement for a striker.
November 7th, 2008 at 3:44
@Grognard: Yes it does not look stable as last season, but its not leaky like you said and for the fact that we could be missing Scholes, Hargreaves, EVDS not being solid, Evra being lax, etc and not be a lot far worse then we are last season considering the fixtures is obviously very good.
November 7th, 2008 at 6:28
@Grognard: Grog
That would mean even your love Berbatov has never been prolific! He is also a 30m pound striker!!!
He has a grand total of 1 goal in the league so far playing for us… same as Tevez!
Has he scored 20 goals a season in EPL yet?
November 7th, 2008 at 9:52
Consistent strikers are incredibly hard to come by. The Shearers/Henrys/Ruuds of this world are incredibly valuable - they just stick the ball in. For all of our great play, we’re not particularly lethal, especially if you compare us with our opponents. I mean, how many times do you watch a match, adn United absolutely dominate, yet come out 1-1 or 2-1. I bet our shots on target to goals ratio is the highest in the league.
And I can’t work out why that is. rooney/tevez are technically very gifted players, but they’re just not quality at taking that split second to breath and place their shots. It almost defies belief.
This talk of Ronaldo…I honestly believe that he will be the best player of his generation. Not because of last season, or because of his tricks and flicks - but because of his drive. Beckham was always said to be the hardest trainer at United, but apparently he had nothing on Ronaldo. Just look at him, and keep in mind he wasn’t able to run for 2 months in the summer. I just don’t see what else you could want from a forward player. He is tall, great in the air, strong on the ball (when he learns to keep his feet) one of hte best dribblers in the world, lightning quick, has one of hte best shots in football…the world really is his oyster, so to speak. The one part of his game he’d need to develop if he has a long career is his ‘back to goal’ play which is non-existant at the moment.
This season he’s on track to do another 40 odd goals, and he’s not even got 1 free kick over a wall yet
November 7th, 2008 at 10:16
http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=946144
battle for the new scholes eh….
November 7th, 2008 at 10:22
@Beachryan: But the problem is there is a trade off which people tend to ignore. If you take out a technically gifted player and replace him with a poacher you will probably end up with a better goal to shot ratio. But will you create as many chances overall, will the poacher cause you to concentrate too many of your attacks through him and do you end up easier for the opposition to mark. Look at our record since SAF started. How many bona fida poachers were regular first teams starters? Hughes, Yorke, Cole, Rooney, Cantona, Tevez, Saha? Not a prolific poacher amongst them. Then we have RVN, goal poacher extraordinaire. So out of 10 league titles we won one (maybe two if you count the year in the mid 90s that Solskjaer started very frequently) with a goal poacher.
November 7th, 2008 at 10:26
@jos: Berbatov actually has been prolific by the definition (20 goals a season in league alone). In Bayern Lev., he scored 20 & 21 goals a season respectively in the Bundesliga alone, before his transfer to Spurs.
As for being prolific for us, please hold your breath. He will be.
November 7th, 2008 at 11:11
@Nino: Nino Bro, that ‘Slave boy’, (which by the way you should just quit calling him that, because its offensive to true slave boys of this world), we would be Fucked without him this year so far. Ronnie our outstanding player in the Celtic game, look how we were playing before he came back from injury. We were shite.
November 7th, 2008 at 11:12
@Rahul: Yes but not in EPL and not for last 3 years!
Tevez was most prolific scorer once in the world, playing for Corintians (or whatever that team is called in Brazil) and won 3 times South American Player of the year all before turning 22.
November 7th, 2008 at 11:19
I am the biggest Ronaldo sceptic in the World, but his performance on Wednesday, was a really brave performance from the lad, Celtic players were getting into him which as far as I am concerned is part of football, (take note Arsenal fans) and he kept comming back for more, thats why he is the best player in World, talent coupled with bravery, he reminded me a bit our late great Georgie Wednesday night.
November 7th, 2008 at 11:20
And Nino Bro, I mean EVEN shite-r than we are now for the usual one half of our games
. United players should only be payed for half a match, because that’s all they turn up for 
.
November 7th, 2008 at 11:28
@JB: i agree with the thrust of your point, Cole was a poacher at the barcodes, but he learned to adapt and play the United Way, which basically meant drop a little deeper and get involved in the last stage of the build up, whereas with Newcastle he got the ball handed to him on a plate in the box by mostly Beardsley.With us he went through a transition period and became a better all round player, and his game improved
November 7th, 2008 at 11:32
@Craig Mc: i wonder would that sort out these rich boys, if you took away some of their comforts
do half the job, get half the pay, sounds fair to me. Might even knock a bit off the Glasers loan 
November 7th, 2008 at 11:33
I meant Glazers, our fav window men!
November 7th, 2008 at 11:40
@jos: same for Tevez: Yes but not in EPL and not for last 3 years!
See its relative from league to league and then again from team to team. Setups,styles of play, physicality, tactics etc change with every transition of team/league. And that affects the ‘prolific’ part.
November 7th, 2008 at 11:49
@Craig Mc: Craig bro, I would exclude Ronaldo from the pay-cut.
I would extend Giggs’ pay cut, pay him zilch for the Hull city match, and only for 1 minute for the Celtic match (ok.. I’ll throw in the goal bonus, make that 2 mins pay). He was shit for the rest of the time.
November 7th, 2008 at 11:51
@Rahul: You can’t blame Giggsy, the formation of him off Tevez was completly wrong, blame Fergie.
November 7th, 2008 at 12:00
@Rahul: Well theres hardly any point in this prolific war! With Rooney Tevez Ronaldo attack we won the golden double last season with all of them scoring some very very crucial goals! This year the manager is clearly favoring a Rooney Berba Ronaldo attack. Lets see what we win this year.
By the way, Liverpool had a very prolific forward in Torres but they won nothing!
November 7th, 2008 at 12:10
I know it’s an argument that can go on forever, but I still believe that today’s United team with RVN instead of Tevez/Berbatov up front would be a better team. We didn’t win trophies with him but the rest of the squad was much lower quality. And he stilled bagged goals for fun. Againt Celtic we got in probably 15 decent crosses, and not one was met by a United player. I almost wonder what hte point of having good wingers is when Tevez/Giggs are no where to be seen in the box. Anyway, moot point, he’s gone (sniff) and we have what we have.
I say start Tevez and Rooney on Saturday, with a view to replace one of them in the second half with Berba. Or throw everyone and start Manucho, and see how good he is in the air against a pretty poor aerial defense. I just have a terrible feeling about this match, can’t shake it. Similar to Everton one, but worse, so I really think we’re going to lose. Other than Ronnie at Celtic and Rooney 4 matches ago, we just haven’ tlooked up for it. Hopefully the boys’ll prove me wrong, but I still doubt it
November 7th, 2008 at 12:17
@Beachryan: Are you sure, Manucho instead of Berbatov????!!!
How was the side when RVN was playing lower quality?
November 7th, 2008 at 12:36
All you statiticians on here
, could any of you tell me is this present group of United players have ever beaten Arsenal at their place. I know we have led one or two games, but I don’t think these present players have won one down at Highbury/Emirates. Please can someone prove me wrong, I’d like that in this case 
.
November 7th, 2008 at 12:39
@Rahul:
, yeah mate, Giggsy was poor, poor, poor 
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November 7th, 2008 at 12:39
@Craig Mc: I was at highbury when we last won therw, Ronnie and O’Shea, Keane and Viera, classic.
November 7th, 2008 at 12:42
The Celtic players are saying apparently, that they have NEVER had to defend so long, and so furiously, as they had to against Man United at their place
. Not in the first half they didn’t!. Mark Wilson saying they have never been so shattered after a game 
.
November 7th, 2008 at 12:42
@Beachryan: If anything we had a smashing team in early 2000s (at RvN’s time) Schoes and keane at that time were much better than any midfield combo of last year’s team. giggsy was 5-6 years younger and better as well. Are Park/Nani the same level as younger giggsy? We just lacked a top class goalie then (and I still believe we dont have one! VDS is good but just good - not world class or anything)
November 7th, 2008 at 12:44
@Stephen: Yeah but Stphen Bro, that was not THIS present bunch of players though, I am talking about post Keane, like last 4 or 5 seasons
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November 7th, 2008 at 12:47
@Craig Mc: I know mate, just remanising!! !Will be there tomorrow the GF and I, then shopping afterwards!!
And if Manucho replaces Berba, I will have a heart attack, sorry can’t get over that!!
November 7th, 2008 at 12:47
@phoenix red:
, half pay would wake some of them the feck up for sure Bro 
.
November 7th, 2008 at 13:11
@Beachryan:
“I still believe that today’s United team with RVN instead of Tevez/Berbatov up front would be a better team”
If that was the case then why did SAF sell RVN and since then has made no move for that kind of striker. Huntelaar would have been an obvious choice but he was never really seriously considered.
November 7th, 2008 at 13:14
@jos: uh… “VDS good but just good”???? Just because we bought him from Fulham?? They shelled out a bucketload for him dude, 7 million quid (that too in 2001). I beg to differ.
Here is an extract from his CV:
* Eredivisie: 1993–94, 1994–95, 1995–96, 1997–98
* KNVB Cup: 1992–93, 1997–98, 1998–99
* UEFA Champions League: 1994–95
* UEFA Cup: 1992
* UEFA Super Cup: 1995
* Intercontinental Cup: 1995
* UEFA Intertoto Cup: 1999
* UEFA Intertoto Cup: 2002
* Premier League: 2006–07, 2007–08
* Football League Cup: 2005–06
* FA Community Shield: 2007, 2008
* UEFA Champions League: 2007–08
* Best European Goalkeeper: 1995
* Dutch Football Goalkeeper of the Year: 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997
* Dutch Golden Shoe: 1998
* UEFA Euro 2008 Team of the Tournament.
November 7th, 2008 at 13:18
@Craig Mc: Last win was at Highbury, the 4-2. We have led in both games we have played at the Emirates only to be pegged back late on.
@Beachryan: RVN may have scored goals for fun but the overall goal return for the team fell, even in 2001-3 when the team was still in excellent shape.
November 7th, 2008 at 13:20
@jos: I agree with the first point you make. To have Scholes & Keane in midfield, plus younger-than-now Giggs was divine.
November 7th, 2008 at 13:30
Jaap Stam, David Beckham, Juan Veron I know he didn’t settle but he was class.
November 7th, 2008 at 14:09
@Rahul: what has all this to do with how VDS is now? His best years were probably 10 yrs back.
Look at UCL final. Cech made at least 3 world class saves to keep chelsea in the game (otherwise it would have been 3-1 at half time). VDS didnt make any save of note in the all the game (except in penalties where he won it for us thanks largely to JT)
November 7th, 2008 at 14:35
Guys lets get some perspective, if we win tomorrow and our game in hand we will have knocked Arsenal out the the Premier league race, so it is down to three teams to compete for the title.
We have played well this season but Ronnie has been injured and is now regaining form, so has Carrick, Hargreaves and Scholes.
We have signed Berbatov and he had no pre season and was lacking in fitness, we have been adjusting to his style and also his form which is now starting to bloom.
We have played Chelsea and Liverpol away, if we beat Arsenal we have played all the big four away from home getting 4 points out of a posible 9, so not great but certainly not bad.
We are notoriously slow starters, and well certainly get better this season ans in spells some of our football has been spellbinding.
Berbatov regardless of what some people say about him has been a joy to watch this season, his touch, and the way he creates space for himself is as good as anyone in the world, and he will get a lot better.
Raphael has played, and has been really exciting, and a real prospect, as was Possebon against Borough.
I know it is frustrating, I am sometimes the biggest moaner, but we are Ok and our form will improve, I know we have only played for the most part this season in the first half of games, but Fergie knows that and will get it sorted.
Come on guys lets keep the faith, in Fergie we trust!!
November 7th, 2008 at 14:56
@ Jos/Stephen - In his first full season, Ruud had Becks adn Scholes and all that, scored 44 goals and we won the prem.
Second season he played with Djembax2, Kleberson, Fortune, Bellion, O’Shea, Fletcher and we were without Rio for most of the season. Yes sometimes when they were fit Keano and Scholes were in the middle, but our flanks were rubbish and that was in Giggs weird getting up to 30 time period, when he wasn’t very effective at all. Ronaldo was completely raw and ineffective, and had a terrible blonde thing in his hair
It was also the year Arsenal went undefeated, so yeah we won bugger all.
In the third season the team was arguably a bit better, but Ruud was injured for half of it, and we were pretty rubbish overall, getting thoroughly thumped to the title by Chelsea and only getting 77 points.
Anyway, my point is, I would still love to see us with a finisher. I think berbatov is a wonderful player to watch, and am very much enjoying his blossoming relationship with Rooney, but there are times you need someone to stick the ball in the net. Ronaldo is our go to man for that right now, but if he leaves I can really see dark days without a proper forward.
November 7th, 2008 at 15:04
@Beachryan: I think our play has evolved since then, we were more static then and a. Our game is more about movement and pace and interchanging of positions, you have also to give Rooney and Berba time to develop an understanding and that will and is happening.
Also he has scored 23 goals in the last 2 seasons for Spurs, who well gave up after the league cup win, last season!
November 7th, 2008 at 15:09
@Beachryan: In RVN’s first full season we had Becks, Scholes etc and we did NOT win the league
November 7th, 2008 at 16:29
@Craig Mc: Mate, Crissy R referred to himself as a ’slave’ during the summer, I never called him that, so I’m just going with the flow bro. It’s gonna stick though, and it’s not going to go away until he’s done his chores to the best of his ability
Seriously, he is an awesome player to watch when he is in full flight (he shouldn’t be too far away from hitting last seasons heights now) but he’s got a bit of work to do to win the support back after the summer. He’s definitely going the right way about it though, judging from the Celtic match.
November 7th, 2008 at 16:40
@Craig Mc: Craig mate, you should get Fillipo Inzaghi for your team them. Pair him up with Zaki and the opposition net should be bursting all the time! Should also answer most peoples call for a goal poacher extraordinaire on here, especially as Inzaghi is deemed to have been ‘born offside’, according to a certain Scottish football manager (I forgot his name sorry!).
November 7th, 2008 at 16:41
Just read that Fletch is a doubt for tomorrow.
That aint good… Hoepfully Andy and Carrick do well tomorrow. It will be an important game for both teams. Liverpool face WBA and Chelski face another team( 
), so we should win to keep up. A draw is not good enough for us! 
We need to win, we need to ruin Arsenals confidence to the ground and we need to give players like Rooney and Andy their confidence back. Anybody else think we are gonna humiliate Arsenal tomorrow? I wil go for a 2-0 win ala Roma away in 2008 style.
November 7th, 2008 at 16:45
@RedDevilEddy: Rooney’s confidence back? He is bursting with confidence.
November 7th, 2008 at 16:46
Bugger: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/7690267.stm
@ JB - Apologies, you’re right that was his second. His first was when we finished third I think, behind Pool (!)
Anyway, what’s wrong with Fletch? was that the ankle knock he took in the first half against Celtic?
November 7th, 2008 at 16:49
@Craig Mc: Now that I think about it, if you really wanted a dream team with players whose names end in the letter ‘I’, you should go and manage the Italian national team!
Inzaghi, Camoranesi, Maldini, Chiellini, De Rossi, Totti…and going further back in time, Baresi, Albertini, Comandini, Rossi….names off the top of my head lol…the list is endless!!
November 7th, 2008 at 16:53
Bugger: http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_4467050,00.html
Speaking of Ruud…he’s gonna be with Dr. Steadman too while Hargo is there. Small world.
November 7th, 2008 at 16:53
@Stephen: Not in the last games. He suffered at Goodison and against Hull. Oh, and when I mean Rooney getting his confidence back, I mean scoring a goal or two again.
November 7th, 2008 at 17:00
@Beachryan: He really is turning into Sahagreaves.
November 7th, 2008 at 17:05
@Stephen: He really is. I feel for the fella. He is a great player, but he hasnt had the luck he has needed the last year or so. I wonder when(and if!) this problem is gonna end…
November 7th, 2008 at 17:07
@RedDevilEddy: It does sound ominous mate I must say, good player and a good lad too.
November 7th, 2008 at 17:21
I cannot agree when someone say Tevez is not pacy…Well let me put it this way, He is not one of the fastest player in the world but is not slow either..
He still has quick feet and cleverness and can keep up with other players like Rooney,Ronaldo and Nani in case of a fast counterattack..He has proved this last year…There is a big misconception in the European football world that striker means who scores 30-40 goals a season..They come in all forms…Some are poachers whose creativeness,vision and passing ability is lesser…Some are clever and quick feeted who do score goals and create goals for others…we need all of them in one team…A team really cannot stay with poachers alone in the front line..
and God’s sake we dont need every striker in our team to score 40 goals …not realistic goal to set for any team..
November 7th, 2008 at 17:49
@Nino JB, was that 4-2 win with these present players though, or when Keane etc were still here?.
.
November 7th, 2008 at 17:52
@Nino: Those are some pretty mean players Bro, and Inzhagi and Zaki, Nani and Ronaldi and Roon-i - I just changed their names by deed pole, will do it for me
.
November 7th, 2008 at 17:55
@Stephen: Stephen, I so hope you won’t be disappointed tomorrow, but a draw I believe is the most we can hope for. If we manage to go ahead in the game, somehow like with Chelski they always manage to pull back. We are total rubbish at holding on to a one nil lead in big away games
.
November 7th, 2008 at 18:01
@Shyam: Well said mate! You hear that Grognard!! Not all strikers have to smash in 30+ goals a season…Tevez contributes in his own way, which I am satistfied with.
November 7th, 2008 at 18:02
@Craig Mc: We never can do it can we?, we start off playing like Brazil, then try and sit on it like Chelsea, then up playing like Bolton!!
Early start tomorrow, ahh better be easy on the wine ce soir, plus shopping in the big smoke, coupled with dinner at an expensive Italian restaurant, should be a real credit crunch bonanza!!
November 7th, 2008 at 18:05
@Fred The Red: That one sentence is awesome, and makes perfect sense. Best ever.
Nicely said Fred The Red, I’m slightly annoyed I didn’t come up with that!
Peas out.
November 7th, 2008 at 18:55
@jos: No Berbatov is not prolific. That is why Huntelaar was my first choice. Still I understood well enough that Berbatov would still score an adequate number of goals but that he would directly and indirectly assist on many many more. Still, once he get settled away and totally comfortable with his teammates, he will score at a greater pace than Tevez did last year. Above all, he will make and has made Wayne Rooney a better player who contributes more to the team offensively than he did when he was partnered with Tevez.
November 7th, 2008 at 18:57
The only thing wrong with our attack is that we have three strikers who have lost their scoring touch at the same time.
I think Berbatov and Rooney should be our regular pairing and given games to develop. At the moment Berbatov tends to play behind Rooney which is the wrong way around.
Tevez I think is like Veron. An amazing player who just does not really fit our team. He needs regular games not occasional substitute appearances. At West Ham it took him a lot of games till he started scoring and when he did he didn’t stop.
We do very well without a main striker and Berbatov isn’t really that guy and neither is Tevez. But I think a Plan B would be nice. An old fashioned centre forward who you could throw on and know that if he got half a chance he would score even if the rest of our team cannot hit the net to save their lives.
November 7th, 2008 at 19:00
@Craig Mc: It was three or four years ago I believe that we beat them at Highbury 4-2 after falling behind 0-2 and storming back in the second half with a brace from Ronny and a career goal from O’Shea.
November 7th, 2008 at 19:10
@scoop: It is clear that RVN would not fit our present specifications. He needs a Beckham like player to cross balls into him and benefits from a more traditional 4-4-2 style. He has done well in Spain despite playing a more continental attack and attacking from the middle but his age would clearly have been an issue in the faster and more frenetic EPL. I loved him to pieces but he is yesterday’s news and he does not offer us as many options as Berbatov does. Give Berbatov a break and a chance to show his full potential to us. So far he has been great but he will only get better and better as he gets more accustomed to our style and to his teammates. He has so much class and skill and he so fits our team perfectly that even I have to concede he was a better choice than my favorite Huntelaar (exactly like RVN). Never forget that he will never score like RVN. Nobody and especially Fergie expected that. He does not replace RVN. Instead, he replaces Eric Cantona. A player who can play high or low, hold the ball up, pass with style, finesse and imagination and also score goals by being in the right place at the right time. He’s good for between 15 to 20 EPL goals a season but he will be directly involved in setting up another 20 to 25 with his vision, positioning and passing. Just be a little patient. Our problems right now have nothing to do with him. Although he as well as the rest of the team need to work on their finishing as they all lack sharpness right now except for maybe Rooney.
November 7th, 2008 at 19:18
@RedDevilEddy: It’s got nothing to do with luck. Hargo was completely mistreated by United. Two things, if he was injured and suffering from this tendinitis then he should not have been bought and secondly, since he was bought, they should have done the right thing from the start and give him surgery instead of having live with this chronic problem. For all the nasty things I have said about Saha in the past, I can’t help but wonder if his injuries were misdiagnosed or poorly dealt with which caused chronic and reoccurring reactions to limit his usefulness to the club. Fergie wanted the player to basically work for his money and he delayed proper medical attention instead. I could be wrong but I believe that the Hargo situation has been poorly handled. Surgery should have been performed last year at this time. Instead, they fielded him game after game until the tendinitis just became more and more acute. And now we all pay for that greedy use of him. That’s how much winning the CL a second time meant to the Boss.
November 7th, 2008 at 19:21
@Shyam: He has quickness and his feet are quick but he does not have pace. He cannot be a defender one on one by outrunning him and getting around him. Part of the problem is he has such short legs. Hell when he has the ball it looks like a beach ball at his feet. That’s not insulting the player mate, that’s calling it as it is. He’s not Leo Messi.
November 7th, 2008 at 19:22
@Craig Mc: Ronaldo, O’Shea, Rooney, Evra, Rio, Fletcher, Giggs were all with the team on that day mate.
November 7th, 2008 at 19:28
Stop Slagging the Count please!!! Goal poacher or not (weren’t those tap-ins against Celtic at OT??), prolific or not, he fits our play and has done us good. He will continue doing so.
@Stephen: If we keep going like that.. starting like Brazil and ending up like Bolton bro…. it’s gonna be embarrassing real soon.
November 7th, 2008 at 19:35
@Nino: And I’m happy for you mate. At least with Berbatov I will get a similar number of goals but five times the assists that Tevez provided with his hard to control and finesse-less passes. I like Tevez but I’ll be honest, he has not been a favorite of mine and his present attitude has not endeared me to him one little bit.
November 7th, 2008 at 19:41
@Stephen: Lets not forget one thing. With all our criticism (and some of it is well deserving) we must not forget the team we are slagging happens to be the league champions two years running and the defending European Champions. For all their problems, they are pretty damned good yet many of us make them out to be Bolton Blunderers. Yes they need to clear up some things but in the end, I have confidence in Fergie to get us to or very near the promise land. In Fergie We Trust!
November 7th, 2008 at 19:58
@Grognard: I don’t think he has been mistreated by United. I mean, his tendinitis injury wasn’t chronic before he was transferred and at such early stages, most tendinitis problems can be treated conservatively without the need for surgery. This is why we took the risk of buying him regardless of his injury and treated the problem the best way the doctors saw fit. Surgery is always a last resort action, and is usually for those who have a sustained or debilitating pain for about 7-12 months (which is probably the case now).
Besides, after the two-year courting of Hargreaves, how unfair and irresponsible will Fergie have been, if after the discovery of this problem and Hargreaves’ pleas to leave Bayern, decided not to take the risk and left him there? That’s something Fergie will never have done to a player that he wanted and who actually wanted to be at United.
About him playing, that’s the only way to make sure the treatments were successful. If he had pains prior to the matches, he didn’t play, but when he didn’t have any, he did. Obviously, as it has turned out to be chronic, surgery is now probably the best scenario.
It is easy to say that we could have done this earlier, but if there was a chance that normal treatment as opposed to surgery could work, the doctors, the club and the player will choose normal treatment everytime. Surgery is always a last resort.
November 7th, 2008 at 20:11
@Grognard: OK mate I see we are not going to agree, but let me say this, that instead of pinning all the blame on Tevez for not scoring enough goals, I feel we should also criticise the midfield players for not scoring enough goals too.
Last year, we had 42+18+19 = 79 goals from the front axis of Ronaldo, Rooney & Tevez respectively. So thats 79 out of (I am purely assuming) around 110 goals scored by just three players. So that means that 30 goals were scored by the other 20 or so players in the first team (excluding goalies). So thats 1.5 goals a season on average from everyone else in the squad, which is frankly pathetic!!
I would love to see the likes of Carrick, Park, Nani (and ESPECIALLY YOU MR ANDERSON!!) follow Fletcher’s example and get on target more often this year. Chelski have players from all over contributing to the goal scored column this season; the likes of Belletti and Bosingwa are getting in on the act for them, and I feel we are WAAAAY too dependent on our front players as goal sources (especially the slave). The only reason we get away with this is because they are SOOOO DAMN GOOD BABY!!
November 7th, 2008 at 20:11
@Grognard: Evra? No Grog, sorry but you are a little off track. Im a big fan of stats and I remember all United games from 2004 very well. We played Arsenal in February 2005, Evra signed for us in 2006. And the score went: 1-0, Vieira. 1-1, Giggs. 2-1, Bergkamp. 2-2, Ronaldo. 3-2, Ronaldo. 4-2, Oshea.
And about Hargreaves, its of cource a little unlucky. United have treated this problem in the worng way, but of cource if you injured for almost a year, tehn it has to do with bad luck!
November 7th, 2008 at 20:19
A side note to SAF: whenever Anderson is playing next and we get a penalty, PLEASE PLEASE let him take it PLEASE! It’ll do him the world of good to get off the mark for us, and as we saw in Moscow, he certainly knows a thing or two about hitting the target from 12 yards out! Otherwise this will get more ridiculous than when Forlan took nearly a whole season to score his first goal for us!
November 7th, 2008 at 20:26
About this Tevez debate, I do feel sort of caught in two planes, zé emotional and zé pragmatic. Emotionally, I would love Tevez to stay at United forever, his tenacity and passion for the game is everything United ask for in their players, not to mention his knack for the last minute goals. He is definitely United material, and has the ability to strive in our style of play.
Pragmatically, Tevez, given his price tag, the ego that comes with his obvious talent and his few shortcomings might not be best for United. We have Berba and Rooney who actually offer more in terms of attack, vision and creativity. If we were to add another striker to that mix, I would want someone on a similar wavelength, but one who will also sit his arse in the box. Tevez just doesn’t fit that bill despite all his many talents. The longer we watch him play beside Rooney or Berba, the more you will realise this. He too will realise this and will eventually grow frustrated at sitting regularly on the bench as a result of this shortcoming.
I might be mistaken, as in Brazil, he was prolific and was always in and around the penalty area, but in England, he has failed to replicate this habit or his prolific form infront of goal. If we are gonna spend the reported £30mil on any player, I say we get a young prodigiously talented winger, another midfielder, or Benzema(if he wants to come). Some say Benzema is overrated, but I believe he has all the qualities needed to strive better at United, and might even push Rooney gradually out of the 1st eleven if he gets here. He is tall, can hold up play, very clinical(both head and feet), pacy, can stay in the box and most importantly, shares Rooney and Berba’s vision and creativity. If he wants to come, I think he will be the right fit for our striking arsenal.
November 7th, 2008 at 21:08
@Craig Mc: The team on the night was Carroll, Neville, Ferdinand, Silvestre, Heinze
Fletcher, Keane, Scholes, Ronaldo, Rooney, Giggs. Brown, Saha and O’Shea were the subs.
So out of the 14 players involved 9 are still involved in the current team.
November 7th, 2008 at 21:14
@Gabriel: Chronic tendinitis has only two solutions my friend. Retirement or surgery. Again, this was diagnosed as a potentially chronic problem by Bayern doctors after the World Cup. Bayern obviously did not want to operate on him once he made it known that he wanted to go to United. They probably refused to sell him at that point due to the injury and were probably buying time so that he could recover. At that time a sale could go through where they would not be blamed for dumping damaged goods on to us. Once we got him a properly trained surgeon or even trainer would have recognized the symptoms as they do all the time in baseball and in hockey where cases of tendinitis are common place. They didn’t and that responsibility falls upon them. So protect them all you want Gabriel. Fact is they misdiagnosed the severity of his problem and never acted quickly enough to operate and possibly keep it from getting worse. Instead he played 2/3 of a season and probably worsened the situation. Now the question is will surgery even work?
November 7th, 2008 at 21:18
@JB: And Silly got sent off for headbutting Ljunberg!
How times change…
November 7th, 2008 at 21:19
@Nino: OK stop right there Nino. At no time did I pin any blame on Tevez for our problems. Actually it’s pretty hard to blame him for anything since he hardly plays. Our problem was no Ronaldo for a long time and then a Ronaldo that was out of shape for several games. After that we also had no Carrick for even longer and no Hargo and now no Scholes. Our central midfield is not up to par. The left side of our midfield is inconsistent and that puts more coverage and pressure on the right side with Ronaldo. Nani, Park and Giggs have not done the job. Right now I really think the Queiroz factor or lack of it is what is hurting the team. His tactical influence and his influence on Nani and Anderson have been missed greatly. Anderson and the entire midfield have to play better and contribute more to our offense.
November 7th, 2008 at 21:21
@RedDevilEddy: What about Evra, I never said he scored but I do believe he was with the team then. Maybe not as a starter but with us nonetheless. I remember the game well. In fact I have it recorded in my library. It was a very sweet victory indeed.
November 7th, 2008 at 21:22
A nice view on why Tevez should stay Tevez
November 7th, 2008 at 21:28
@Grognard: Firstly, I don’t think it was diagnosed as chronic before he was transferred as it will have been all over the press. Like you said, it was ‘potentially’ chronic and hence the preferred course of treatment will have been injections and adequate rest. That is what the doctors will have suggested as surgery is always a last resort as to when normal treatment doesn’t work.
I mean, he has been seeing specialists for some time now and they all recommended the same course of action; injections. You mean to say they were not acting in the best interest? If normal treatment did not seem viable then, i’m sure he would have had surgery, but as it obviously did, that was the action taken. I don’t for one second believe that the club, doctors or the player himself will have taken the risk of aggravating the problem just so he could play for some parts of the season.
November 7th, 2008 at 21:28
Latest form gulde
Last six W D L F A T
Man Utd 5 1 0 15 4 16
Chelsea 5 0 1 17 1 15
Liverpool 5 0 1 11 6 15
Hull 4 0 2 10 8 12
Aston Villa 3 1 2 9 7 10
Stoke 3 0 3 6 9 9
Arsenal 2 2 2 12 10 8
Everton 2 2 2 6 8 8
Middlesbrough 2 2 2 5 8 8
Newcastle 2 2 2 10 9 8
Portsmouth 2 2 2 6 5 8
Bolton 2 1 3 5 6 7
Tottenham 2 1 3 9 10 7
West Brom 2 1 3 5 11 7
Blackburn 1 3 2 7 9 6
Wigan 2 0 4 6 12 6
Fulham 1 2 3 4 5 5
Sunderland 1 2 3 4 10 5
Man City 1 1 4 8 11 4
West Ham 1 1 4 4 10 4
Quit whining and start supporting, United fans are spoilt, simple as.
Phoenix Red, tell them about the dark days durind the eighties when we were rubbish, cmon boys, enjoy being at the the top coz some of us remember when we werent.
November 7th, 2008 at 21:48
@RedDevilEddy: No you’re right, Evra signed in 2005/06 and the 4-2 was in 2004/05. The Highbury game in 2005/06 was a pretty drab 0-0 around Xmas IIRC.
P.S. If you are going to head butt somebody take a look at Silvestre, none of this half assed stuff Nani got up to last season
November 7th, 2008 at 22:35
@Fred The Red: What???? quit whinning and ranting, its our way of life, theres always something to rant about. Seriously, reading some comments, its almost as if, we fans WANT something to be wrong, its like any little problem with the team is almost magnified as if its relegation for us.
November 7th, 2008 at 22:40
If you love classic rock, or if like me you love David Bowie, you’ll absolutely love this!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDMsNtsaTQo&feature=related
The guy also does plenty of other fakes. I truly laughed my ass off! Of course it would help to have a small knowledge of rock and pop. Check the Beatles one for instance…
November 7th, 2008 at 22:42
@Rd: O give over please
. I want a RANT competition after the Arsenal match, any of you BOna fide United faithful UP FOR IT. The rest of you can stay asleep if you like 
.
November 7th, 2008 at 22:44
@Craig Mc: Your competition will be screwed if we win though
November 7th, 2008 at 22:45
.@Grognard: Grog Bro, Nani does do the job when he plays with Evra
.
November 7th, 2008 at 22:47
@JB: JB, I’m not anticipating that though, we aint done that at the Emirates with this bunch of players, we might go ahead, but sure as feck we will gift them an equaliser
.
November 7th, 2008 at 22:50
@JB: Mmmmm ok Bro, didn’t see this post from you. Maybe we might do it then, I’m not terribly optimistic though, but I hope as always
.
November 7th, 2008 at 22:52
@Craig Mc: Well you could cover yourself and just go for the biggest knee jerk reaction competiton
I’ll put mine in early, Rooney is better than Maradona 
November 7th, 2008 at 23:17
@Grognard: I will bet 5,000,000 euros that Evra didnt play for us in February 2005 when United won 4-2 at Highbury. I remember the game quite well too, and I can promise you that Evra wasnt in the team. Are you sure you aint talking about the bore 0-0 draw in 2006?
May the Champions win!!! 
Hopefully we will win by 2 goals tomorrow too. Good night everybody, when I wake up tomorrow Im gonna be happy. Its Arsenal vs United time. Its speed vs speed. Its Ronaldo vs Clichy, Berba vs Toure, Rio vs Bendtner and Evra vs some kid. And its Champions vs Losers!
November 7th, 2008 at 23:27
@Gabriel: Benzema’s vision is pretty woeful. He involves himself in the build-up play well but the fact that he makes wrong decisions when he goes for passes every other pass tells you he has pretty poor vision in all honesty. He said just last month that he wants to go to Madrid or Barcelona anyway so he’s not coming here.
About Tevez, he’s never been a clinical player. He scored 57 goals in 88 games in South America, but that’s not overly prolific for the South AMerican league’s. He’s fine as he is and after playing here for I’m sure he’ll continue to improve his finishing with us. He’s also proven he can forge a partnership with Rooney, and the signs looked promising against Celtic for forging a partnership with Berbatov, so we don’t need to buy someone else instead.
Tevez, Berbatov and Rooney are all very different players.
November 7th, 2008 at 23:32
Oh and before I forget, HAPPY BIRTHDAY RIO!!!
May United(and yourself) give us all a great present tomorrow! CHAMPIONS!!!
Fook Arsenal, fuck W(ank)er, fuck playing-well-sometimes-but-never-winning-any-trophies, and fook all the Arsenal fans that only remind you of when they beat you some 4-5 years ago. Dont remember the 6-1, 4-0 or 3-0? Then wait for tomorrow, that will give you guys a buring memory of how it feels to be dominated!
Just so you guys know, to me beating Arsenal means more than beating City, Chelksi, Pool or even Barcelona. Not because I think they are a great team, but there are about 100 Arsenal fans at my school. And theres only 10-20 United fans so… I have a real fight on my hands if we lose. They have still not stopped saying: “Hey, remember when we beat you 2-1 when you were leading after 85 minutes?” I just answer: “Yeah I do! But do you remember when we beat you 6-1? Nah, youve probably been an Arsenal for about 3 years, havent you? Fooking fake-fan! Well, at least you should remember when we beat you 4-0? That definantely wasnt a long time ago!”
UNITED `TILL I DIE!
November 7th, 2008 at 23:39
@Craig Mc: A great player does not need that kind of support to make his mark. That just speaks volumes of his limited effect if he needs Evra to make his game operate well. Ronaldo doesn’t need anyone else. Nani has a lot of potential but he is not there yet. In fact lets be honest, he has regressed. Fergie’s lack of confidence as well as the Queiroz departure have affected him greatly.
November 7th, 2008 at 23:40
I may be overly confident, but I really give a fuck! I had to run like a fucking scouser after watching the result after a United vs Pool game last night. Those Arsenal fans are not gonna forgive me for what I said. And that punch I gave their so called “leader”? Im gonna feel that on Monday. But fuck it, if we win its worth it! To see his face after bitching about how they went unbeaten in 2006 and 2007(seriously, WTF? Know your history dude!), and then getting humiliated when I and even the other Arse`s were telling him that he was wrong, that they only lost one game last season(again, WHAT THE FUCK!??), and that experience is unecassary!!!! SHIT! I just couldnt stand him. I had to hit him, but with his crew there I couldnt go for it like I should. One hit on his jaw and s threat and I was running like Torres does when he sees Rio(
)! Win tomorrow lads and no-one will even think about talking to me. 
The embarrasment is huge to them, and with the massacre coming up I dont think any of them are brave enough to come to school…. 
November 7th, 2008 at 23:42
@RedDevilEddy: JESUS CHRIST ALREADY! Big deal if he did or he didn’t.
Was I really making an argument over his playing. Brown was on the roster and so was Neville but I never mentioned them. So crucify for crying out loud. Big frakken deal! It’s amazing how some of you will harp on little crap and facts like correcting somebody is vital or the planet will stop rotating around the Sun. Evra was not the issue anyway. the game was and the fact that 9 players who are with us today were on that team. Enough said mate! 
November 7th, 2008 at 23:43
If you wanna have a slight clue about what the Arsenal fans are thinking about tomorrows game, then here is a read. I tell ya, I would loov it if we beat them, loov it! And I would loove it even more if we massacered them…..
November 7th, 2008 at 23:44
@Grognard: Chill man!
I didnt mean to make it a big deal, I just said he didnt play. Thats all! 
What I care about is him playing tomorrow!
November 7th, 2008 at 23:51
Heres me during my vacation in Toronto earlier this year.
No, seriously! 
November 7th, 2008 at 23:55
@Grognard: We cool mate?
November 8th, 2008 at 0:09
Seriously gotta sleep now. Talk to ya guys tomorrow. Before the massacre….
November 8th, 2008 at 0:56
@RedDevilEddy: Yes we are cool. I wasn’t that upset even though I used large case letters to emphasize to show a little frustration that Evra was nothing to concern yourself about. We’re cool mate.
November 8th, 2008 at 0:59
@NicoQB: You see,thing with Giggs is his footballing brain. That’s what separates him from players like Slave,Quaresma and the Robinhos of this world.You look @ players like Del Piero(one of my personal favs),Totti,Deco,Ronaldinho and Zidane and you see players who were or are artists and inventors.They don’t think outside the box,like say ,Wayne Rooney ,they are already out of the box. That is why when shifted to a more central position in 2006,we saw some of the most jaw dropping and inspired through passes and off the ball movement from the Welsh wizard.
People like to give their two cents worth of opinions and they are just that:two cents and worth nothing more. “Giggs is through and is rubbish.” If you look back @ the 06-07 season,Giggs was unbelievable and was rightly voted the 4th best (I think) best player in the league.His playmaking support striker role was breathtaking to witness and he was lauded from all corners. He had already lost his best pace by then but there were no complaints. Now that we have so many midfielders and with the recruitment of Nani,he has become worse than dispensable. SAF was forced to play him on the wings again where pace is a primary strength. He obviously faltered,but due to the about turn that SAF had taken.
However , I think the worst had to be the amount and grade of abuse that came from the unforgiving and ridiculously expectant quarters of our fan base. That in my opinion,is what brings players down. I said it in Rooney’s case and I said when some idiots booed Giggs in a match , i think against, Birmingham City and some rather uninformed fans blamed him for all our problems on MUTV. That is what makes players lose confidence in their abilities,and I think thats was part of the issue with Giggs.
This season SAF says he wants to play Giggs in a more central role,and true to his word he has done that. Looked what happened in the games he played there. Think Aalborg. He was almost flawless. Does anyone else notice that he is dribbling more and taking shots and being quite inventive and industrious. Like Rooney he seems to be getting his confidence back and playing with a certain level of swagger.
Apologies for the lengthy post, but I get agitated when players I like are praised or attacked.
Viva Roovez
November 8th, 2008 at 1:29
@Gabriel: I do understand some of the frustrations with Tevez. But to me it seems he may actually be right when he says the English Premiership demands that a player loses his flair and skill to adapt . Or you can be like the Slave and simply neglect all or most defensive duties that are assigned to the 21st century EPL player. Whilst at Boca Juniors and Corinthians,he was the equivalent of Aguero. He got so many goals for his teams it made the likes of Raul pale in comparison. His skill was top drawer and his shot lethal.
So what happened really? Simple. People always give me a hard time when I say that the EPL is still an undeveloped league lacking in style and technique.Its the only major league where shameless and cowardly defensive football AKA ‘parking the bus’,is termed “disciplined and brave” football by the likes of Tyler. This league puts all emphasis on ‘take no prisoners ‘ tackling and aggression. The terms ’skillful and inventive’ are rarely applied. Synonymous, with players like Slave and Robinho is “showboating”.
Against this background, were tracking back seems to apply more to centre forwards than midfielders, Carlitos came to England. He obviously had to forgo a significant part of his offensive tools in order to adapt. Tbh I think Arsenal or the Primera Liga in Spain would have suited him better. That’s just my opinion. Let him play the way he is used to and you will see the true Tevez coming up. I think it’s the same with players like Anderson. They have been shackled by the work ethic of the EPL and have to be less adventurous in order to be successful.
Viva Roovez
November 8th, 2008 at 2:47
@Grognard: You’ll see how good he is when he moves to Spain, that’s all I’m saying Bro.
November 8th, 2008 at 2:50
@JB:
, Rooney better than Maradona, you mean the presently retired Maradona of course, not the world’s best Maradona of old - right?.
November 8th, 2008 at 4:08
@Jay wire: Yah, I mean look at all the skill and flair Ronaldo and Berbatov have lost. That’s a bunch of BS. He’s just not that great a goal scorer and at the highest level he never has been. Go back to Brazil or Argentina Carlito where you can bag 20 goals but as far as England, Spain or Italy are concerned, you are good for 12 to 15 in each of those domestic leagues as a starter. Not bad but certainly not ground breaking. In England defenders are better and faster and clearly they have caught up with him and now he wants out because he can’t hack it on the bench. BOO FUCKING HOO.
Excuses will get him nowhere.
November 8th, 2008 at 4:12
@Craig Mc: He better be. Spain’s defending is far inferior to that of the EPL. Bottom line is that the EPL is the top league in the World and he isn’t making his mark while playing for the best club in the World. Some players just can’t handle the pressure. Perhaps he would be greater with another team but I would hate to lose him because who the Hell is going to control your temper tantrums, crying and bitching?
Bottom line is that Craig cannot live without his little Nani. Now go to the GF and play with her soother a bit. He’s not gone yet. Hell who knows, he could end up being EPL player of the year in two years. We just don’t really know. 
November 8th, 2008 at 5:19