Nov 05
Celtic v Man Utd: Preview
First of all let me thank the majority of Americans for making a good decision. Hope’s now in the air. So, I suppose, when I wake up tomorrow, I’ll see my taxes halve, and my gas bills cut down a notch.
Oh.
Anyway, good to see a President who sounds intelligent. But enough of the political commentary for now. On to the game…
Ben Foster looks certain to start today, as Ferguson hails him as a future England No. 1. We’ve all seen the much talked about promise — and his performance for Watford could attest to his obvious talent — but we can only judge him when he gets more games for us. Today is one such day. Patience is a virtue for ‘keepers and, with Fergie ruling out any loan moves for Foster and Kuszczak amid talk of EVDS extending his contract by another year, they will need loads of it.
Neville didn’t travel and so didn’t Brown, who’s wretched luck continues this season. Rafael da Silva is the obvious beneficiary as he’ll gladly take up the right back slot. One hopes he’ll continue his education there.
Considering the Arsenal game in the weekend, and our comfortable position in our group, Fergie looks certain to ring in a slew of changes to ensure his key personnel remain fresh. It remains to be see who would be given a rest. Tevez might surely get a look in. Carrick could start as he continues to approach match sharpness, while it is possible Darren Fletcher might get to play considering it’s a Scottish side we’re up against. Although, given his ‘big-game’ credentials, the boss might choose to rest him for the work that lies ahead against the Gooners. He’ll have a fair bit of yardage to cover at the Emirates. This could mean Anderson gets another start today.
Fergie would be tempted to rest Ronaldo too. But expect the Portuguese international to do some last minute convincing to be on the starting XI sheet.
I suppose Fergie won’t tinker too much with his team, but I do expect a very tight game.
Predictions: 2-1 to United. But only just.
Related items from Red Rants:
- Man Utd v Stoke: Preview
- Man Utd v Celtic: Preview
- Man Utd v Everton: Preview
- Man Utd v Spurs match thread
- Rooney Out For A Month
Tags: UEFA Champions' League
Opti (541)
RedDevilEddy (459)
Stephen (454)
Craig Mc (344)
Moscow is my heaven (272)
@Beachryan: I think our play has evolved since then, we were more static then and a. Our game is more about movement and pace and interchanging of positions, you have also to give Rooney and Berba time to develop an understanding and that will and is happening.
Also he has scored 23 goals in the last 2 seasons for Spurs, who well gave up after the league cup win, last season!
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@Beachryan: In RVN’s first full season we had Becks, Scholes etc and we did NOT win the league
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@Craig Mc: Mate, Crissy R referred to himself as a ‘slave’ during the summer, I never called him that, so I’m just going with the flow bro. It’s gonna stick though, and it’s not going to go away until he’s done his chores to the best of his ability
Seriously, he is an awesome player to watch when he is in full flight (he shouldn’t be too far away from hitting last seasons heights now) but he’s got a bit of work to do to win the support back after the summer. He’s definitely going the right way about it though, judging from the Celtic match.
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@Craig Mc: Craig mate, you should get Fillipo Inzaghi for your team them. Pair him up with Zaki and the opposition net should be bursting all the time! Should also answer most peoples call for a goal poacher extraordinaire on here, especially as Inzaghi is deemed to have been ‘born offside’, according to a certain Scottish football manager (I forgot his name sorry!).
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Just read that Fletch is a doubt for tomorrow.
That aint good… Hoepfully Andy and Carrick do well tomorrow. It will be an important game for both teams. Liverpool face WBA and Chelski face another team( 
), so we should win to keep up. A draw is not good enough for us! 
We need to win, we need to ruin Arsenals confidence to the ground and we need to give players like Rooney and Andy their confidence back. Anybody else think we are gonna humiliate Arsenal tomorrow? I wil go for a 2-0 win ala Roma away in 2008 style.
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@RedDevilEddy: Rooney’s confidence back? He is bursting with confidence.
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Bugger: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/7690267.stm
@ JB – Apologies, you’re right that was his second. His first was when we finished third I think, behind Pool (!)
Anyway, what’s wrong with Fletch? was that the ankle knock he took in the first half against Celtic?
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@Craig Mc: Now that I think about it, if you really wanted a dream team with players whose names end in the letter ‘I’, you should go and manage the Italian national team!
Inzaghi, Camoranesi, Maldini, Chiellini, De Rossi, Totti…and going further back in time, Baresi, Albertini, Comandini, Rossi….names off the top of my head lol…the list is endless!!
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Bugger: http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_4467050,00.html
Speaking of Ruud…he’s gonna be with Dr. Steadman too while Hargo is there. Small world.
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@Stephen: Not in the last games. He suffered at Goodison and against Hull. Oh, and when I mean Rooney getting his confidence back, I mean scoring a goal or two again.
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@Beachryan: He really is turning into Sahagreaves.
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@Stephen: He really is. I feel for the fella. He is a great player, but he hasnt had the luck he has needed the last year or so. I wonder when(and if!) this problem is gonna end…
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@RedDevilEddy: It does sound ominous mate I must say, good player and a good lad too.
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I cannot agree when someone say Tevez is not pacy…Well let me put it this way, He is not one of the fastest player in the world but is not slow either..
He still has quick feet and cleverness and can keep up with other players like Rooney,Ronaldo and Nani in case of a fast counterattack..He has proved this last year…There is a big misconception in the European football world that striker means who scores 30-40 goals a season..They come in all forms…Some are poachers whose creativeness,vision and passing ability is lesser…Some are clever and quick feeted who do score goals and create goals for others…we need all of them in one team…A team really cannot stay with poachers alone in the front line..
and God’s sake we dont need every striker in our team to score 40 goals …not realistic goal to set for any team..
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@Nino JB, was that 4-2 win with these present players though, or when Keane etc were still here?.
.
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@Nino: Those are some pretty mean players Bro, and Inzhagi and Zaki, Nani and Ronaldi and Roon-i – I just changed their names by deed pole, will do it for me
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@Stephen: Stephen, I so hope you won’t be disappointed tomorrow, but a draw I believe is the most we can hope for. If we manage to go ahead in the game, somehow like with Chelski they always manage to pull back. We are total rubbish at holding on to a one nil lead in big away games
.
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@Shyam: Well said mate! You hear that Grognard!! Not all strikers have to smash in 30+ goals a season…Tevez contributes in his own way, which I am satistfied with.
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@Craig Mc: We never can do it can we?, we start off playing like Brazil, then try and sit on it like Chelsea, then up playing like Bolton!!
Early start tomorrow, ahh better be easy on the wine ce soir, plus shopping in the big smoke, coupled with dinner at an expensive Italian restaurant, should be a real credit crunch bonanza!!
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@Fred The Red: That one sentence is awesome, and makes perfect sense. Best ever.
Nicely said Fred The Red, I’m slightly annoyed I didn’t come up with that!
Peas out.
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@jos: No Berbatov is not prolific. That is why Huntelaar was my first choice. Still I understood well enough that Berbatov would still score an adequate number of goals but that he would directly and indirectly assist on many many more. Still, once he get settled away and totally comfortable with his teammates, he will score at a greater pace than Tevez did last year. Above all, he will make and has made Wayne Rooney a better player who contributes more to the team offensively than he did when he was partnered with Tevez.
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The only thing wrong with our attack is that we have three strikers who have lost their scoring touch at the same time.
I think Berbatov and Rooney should be our regular pairing and given games to develop. At the moment Berbatov tends to play behind Rooney which is the wrong way around.
Tevez I think is like Veron. An amazing player who just does not really fit our team. He needs regular games not occasional substitute appearances. At West Ham it took him a lot of games till he started scoring and when he did he didn’t stop.
We do very well without a main striker and Berbatov isn’t really that guy and neither is Tevez. But I think a Plan B would be nice. An old fashioned centre forward who you could throw on and know that if he got half a chance he would score even if the rest of our team cannot hit the net to save their lives.
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@Craig Mc: It was three or four years ago I believe that we beat them at Highbury 4-2 after falling behind 0-2 and storming back in the second half with a brace from Ronny and a career goal from O’Shea.
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@scoop: It is clear that RVN would not fit our present specifications. He needs a Beckham like player to cross balls into him and benefits from a more traditional 4-4-2 style. He has done well in Spain despite playing a more continental attack and attacking from the middle but his age would clearly have been an issue in the faster and more frenetic EPL. I loved him to pieces but he is yesterday’s news and he does not offer us as many options as Berbatov does. Give Berbatov a break and a chance to show his full potential to us. So far he has been great but he will only get better and better as he gets more accustomed to our style and to his teammates. He has so much class and skill and he so fits our team perfectly that even I have to concede he was a better choice than my favorite Huntelaar (exactly like RVN). Never forget that he will never score like RVN. Nobody and especially Fergie expected that. He does not replace RVN. Instead, he replaces Eric Cantona. A player who can play high or low, hold the ball up, pass with style, finesse and imagination and also score goals by being in the right place at the right time. He’s good for between 15 to 20 EPL goals a season but he will be directly involved in setting up another 20 to 25 with his vision, positioning and passing. Just be a little patient. Our problems right now have nothing to do with him. Although he as well as the rest of the team need to work on their finishing as they all lack sharpness right now except for maybe Rooney.
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@RedDevilEddy: It’s got nothing to do with luck. Hargo was completely mistreated by United. Two things, if he was injured and suffering from this tendinitis then he should not have been bought and secondly, since he was bought, they should have done the right thing from the start and give him surgery instead of having live with this chronic problem. For all the nasty things I have said about Saha in the past, I can’t help but wonder if his injuries were misdiagnosed or poorly dealt with which caused chronic and reoccurring reactions to limit his usefulness to the club. Fergie wanted the player to basically work for his money and he delayed proper medical attention instead. I could be wrong but I believe that the Hargo situation has been poorly handled. Surgery should have been performed last year at this time. Instead, they fielded him game after game until the tendinitis just became more and more acute. And now we all pay for that greedy use of him. That’s how much winning the CL a second time meant to the Boss.
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@Shyam: He has quickness and his feet are quick but he does not have pace. He cannot be a defender one on one by outrunning him and getting around him. Part of the problem is he has such short legs. Hell when he has the ball it looks like a beach ball at his feet. That’s not insulting the player mate, that’s calling it as it is. He’s not Leo Messi.
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@Craig Mc: Ronaldo, O’Shea, Rooney, Evra, Rio, Fletcher, Giggs were all with the team on that day mate.
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Stop Slagging the Count please!!! Goal poacher or not (weren’t those tap-ins against Celtic at OT??), prolific or not, he fits our play and has done us good. He will continue doing so.
@Stephen: If we keep going like that.. starting like Brazil and ending up like Bolton bro…. it’s gonna be embarrassing real soon.
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@Nino: And I’m happy for you mate. At least with Berbatov I will get a similar number of goals but five times the assists that Tevez provided with his hard to control and finesse-less passes. I like Tevez but I’ll be honest, he has not been a favorite of mine and his present attitude has not endeared me to him one little bit.
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@Stephen: Lets not forget one thing. With all our criticism (and some of it is well deserving) we must not forget the team we are slagging happens to be the league champions two years running and the defending European Champions. For all their problems, they are pretty damned good yet many of us make them out to be Bolton Blunderers. Yes they need to clear up some things but in the end, I have confidence in Fergie to get us to or very near the promise land. In Fergie We Trust!
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@Grognard: I don’t think he has been mistreated by United. I mean, his tendinitis injury wasn’t chronic before he was transferred and at such early stages, most tendinitis problems can be treated conservatively without the need for surgery. This is why we took the risk of buying him regardless of his injury and treated the problem the best way the doctors saw fit. Surgery is always a last resort action, and is usually for those who have a sustained or debilitating pain for about 7-12 months (which is probably the case now).
Besides, after the two-year courting of Hargreaves, how unfair and irresponsible will Fergie have been, if after the discovery of this problem and Hargreaves’ pleas to leave Bayern, decided not to take the risk and left him there? That’s something Fergie will never have done to a player that he wanted and who actually wanted to be at United.
About him playing, that’s the only way to make sure the treatments were successful. If he had pains prior to the matches, he didn’t play, but when he didn’t have any, he did. Obviously, as it has turned out to be chronic, surgery is now probably the best scenario.
It is easy to say that we could have done this earlier, but if there was a chance that normal treatment as opposed to surgery could work, the doctors, the club and the player will choose normal treatment everytime. Surgery is always a last resort.
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@Grognard: OK mate I see we are not going to agree, but let me say this, that instead of pinning all the blame on Tevez for not scoring enough goals, I feel we should also criticise the midfield players for not scoring enough goals too.
Last year, we had 42+18+19 = 79 goals from the front axis of Ronaldo, Rooney & Tevez respectively. So thats 79 out of (I am purely assuming) around 110 goals scored by just three players. So that means that 30 goals were scored by the other 20 or so players in the first team (excluding goalies). So thats 1.5 goals a season on average from everyone else in the squad, which is frankly pathetic!!
I would love to see the likes of Carrick, Park, Nani (and ESPECIALLY YOU MR ANDERSON!!) follow Fletcher’s example and get on target more often this year. Chelski have players from all over contributing to the goal scored column this season; the likes of Belletti and Bosingwa are getting in on the act for them, and I feel we are WAAAAY too dependent on our front players as goal sources (especially the slave). The only reason we get away with this is because they are SOOOO DAMN GOOD BABY!!
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@Grognard: Evra? No Grog, sorry but you are a little off track. Im a big fan of stats and I remember all United games from 2004 very well. We played Arsenal in February 2005, Evra signed for us in 2006. And the score went: 1-0, Vieira. 1-1, Giggs. 2-1, Bergkamp. 2-2, Ronaldo. 3-2, Ronaldo. 4-2, Oshea.
And about Hargreaves, its of cource a little unlucky. United have treated this problem in the worng way, but of cource if you injured for almost a year, tehn it has to do with bad luck!
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A side note to SAF: whenever Anderson is playing next and we get a penalty, PLEASE PLEASE let him take it PLEASE! It’ll do him the world of good to get off the mark for us, and as we saw in Moscow, he certainly knows a thing or two about hitting the target from 12 yards out! Otherwise this will get more ridiculous than when Forlan took nearly a whole season to score his first goal for us!
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About this Tevez debate, I do feel sort of caught in two planes, zé emotional and zé pragmatic. Emotionally, I would love Tevez to stay at United forever, his tenacity and passion for the game is everything United ask for in their players, not to mention his knack for the last minute goals. He is definitely United material, and has the ability to strive in our style of play.
Pragmatically, Tevez, given his price tag, the ego that comes with his obvious talent and his few shortcomings might not be best for United. We have Berba and Rooney who actually offer more in terms of attack, vision and creativity. If we were to add another striker to that mix, I would want someone on a similar wavelength, but one who will also sit his arse in the box. Tevez just doesn’t fit that bill despite all his many talents. The longer we watch him play beside Rooney or Berba, the more you will realise this. He too will realise this and will eventually grow frustrated at sitting regularly on the bench as a result of this shortcoming.
I might be mistaken, as in Brazil, he was prolific and was always in and around the penalty area, but in England, he has failed to replicate this habit or his prolific form infront of goal. If we are gonna spend the reported £30mil on any player, I say we get a young prodigiously talented winger, another midfielder, or Benzema(if he wants to come). Some say Benzema is overrated, but I believe he has all the qualities needed to strive better at United, and might even push Rooney gradually out of the 1st eleven if he gets here. He is tall, can hold up play, very clinical(both head and feet), pacy, can stay in the box and most importantly, shares Rooney and Berba’s vision and creativity. If he wants to come, I think he will be the right fit for our striking arsenal.
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@Craig Mc: The team on the night was Carroll, Neville, Ferdinand, Silvestre, Heinze
Fletcher, Keane, Scholes, Ronaldo, Rooney, Giggs. Brown, Saha and O’Shea were the subs.
So out of the 14 players involved 9 are still involved in the current team.
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@Gabriel: Chronic tendinitis has only two solutions my friend. Retirement or surgery. Again, this was diagnosed as a potentially chronic problem by Bayern doctors after the World Cup. Bayern obviously did not want to operate on him once he made it known that he wanted to go to United. They probably refused to sell him at that point due to the injury and were probably buying time so that he could recover. At that time a sale could go through where they would not be blamed for dumping damaged goods on to us. Once we got him a properly trained surgeon or even trainer would have recognized the symptoms as they do all the time in baseball and in hockey where cases of tendinitis are common place. They didn’t and that responsibility falls upon them. So protect them all you want Gabriel. Fact is they misdiagnosed the severity of his problem and never acted quickly enough to operate and possibly keep it from getting worse. Instead he played 2/3 of a season and probably worsened the situation. Now the question is will surgery even work?
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@JB: And Silly got sent off for headbutting Ljunberg!
How times change…
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@Nino: OK stop right there Nino. At no time did I pin any blame on Tevez for our problems. Actually it’s pretty hard to blame him for anything since he hardly plays. Our problem was no Ronaldo for a long time and then a Ronaldo that was out of shape for several games. After that we also had no Carrick for even longer and no Hargo and now no Scholes. Our central midfield is not up to par. The left side of our midfield is inconsistent and that puts more coverage and pressure on the right side with Ronaldo. Nani, Park and Giggs have not done the job. Right now I really think the Queiroz factor or lack of it is what is hurting the team. His tactical influence and his influence on Nani and Anderson have been missed greatly. Anderson and the entire midfield have to play better and contribute more to our offense.
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@RedDevilEddy: What about Evra, I never said he scored but I do believe he was with the team then. Maybe not as a starter but with us nonetheless. I remember the game well. In fact I have it recorded in my library. It was a very sweet victory indeed.
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A nice view on why Tevez should stay Tevez
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@Grognard: Firstly, I don’t think it was diagnosed as chronic before he was transferred as it will have been all over the press. Like you said, it was ‘potentially’ chronic and hence the preferred course of treatment will have been injections and adequate rest. That is what the doctors will have suggested as surgery is always a last resort as to when normal treatment doesn’t work.
I mean, he has been seeing specialists for some time now and they all recommended the same course of action; injections. You mean to say they were not acting in the best interest? If normal treatment did not seem viable then, i’m sure he would have had surgery, but as it obviously did, that was the action taken. I don’t for one second believe that the club, doctors or the player himself will have taken the risk of aggravating the problem just so he could play for some parts of the season.
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Latest form gulde
Last six W D L F A T
Man Utd 5 1 0 15 4 16
Chelsea 5 0 1 17 1 15
Liverpool 5 0 1 11 6 15
Hull 4 0 2 10 8 12
Aston Villa 3 1 2 9 7 10
Stoke 3 0 3 6 9 9
Arsenal 2 2 2 12 10 8
Everton 2 2 2 6 8 8
Middlesbrough 2 2 2 5 8 8
Newcastle 2 2 2 10 9 8
Portsmouth 2 2 2 6 5 8
Bolton 2 1 3 5 6 7
Tottenham 2 1 3 9 10 7
West Brom 2 1 3 5 11 7
Blackburn 1 3 2 7 9 6
Wigan 2 0 4 6 12 6
Fulham 1 2 3 4 5 5
Sunderland 1 2 3 4 10 5
Man City 1 1 4 8 11 4
West Ham 1 1 4 4 10 4
Quit whining and start supporting, United fans are spoilt, simple as.
Phoenix Red, tell them about the dark days durind the eighties when we were rubbish, cmon boys, enjoy being at the the top coz some of us remember when we werent.
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@RedDevilEddy: No you’re right, Evra signed in 2005/06 and the 4-2 was in 2004/05. The Highbury game in 2005/06 was a pretty drab 0-0 around Xmas IIRC.
P.S. If you are going to head butt somebody take a look at Silvestre, none of this half assed stuff Nani got up to last season
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@Fred The Red: What???? quit whinning and ranting, its our way of life, theres always something to rant about. Seriously, reading some comments, its almost as if, we fans WANT something to be wrong, its like any little problem with the team is almost magnified as if its relegation for us.
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If you love classic rock, or if like me you love David Bowie, you’ll absolutely love this!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDMsNtsaTQo&feature=related
The guy also does plenty of other fakes. I truly laughed my ass off! Of course it would help to have a small knowledge of rock and pop. Check the Beatles one for instance…
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@Rd: O give over please
. I want a RANT competition after the Arsenal match, any of you BOna fide United faithful UP FOR IT. The rest of you can stay asleep if you like 
.
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@Craig Mc: Your competition will be screwed if we win though
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.@Grognard: Grog Bro, Nani does do the job when he plays with Evra
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@JB: JB, I’m not anticipating that though, we aint done that at the Emirates with this bunch of players, we might go ahead, but sure as feck we will gift them an equaliser
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