Oct 23
Dynamo Kyiv vs Manchester United: Preview
Morning one and all. Today we face Dynamo Kyiv, the Ukranian Champions, in our Champions’ League group fixture. Must be exciting, eh?
It must be exciting, wouldn’t it? All United games have to be exciting. Something about it being the United way and all that. But then we are wasting a little time talking about things that are old hat and not the thing at hand. So let’s get down to talking about the game, shall we?
Today’s match preview may not be too long. If it were, I wouldn’t have much new to say, because I previewed a fair bit on yesterday’s post. (Read it if you haven’t) Especially read the comment thread for that post. Some insightful discussion on Fergie’s tactics are in full view. You are, of course, free to contribute there.
While we wondered about what tactic would suit us in the game against Kyiv, the manager admitted that he was faced with a tactical dilemma; to play the Tevez-Rooney combo, or go with a three-man midfield, thus sacrificing one of the strikers.
To be honest, none of us can really point out to our best starting XI, unlike last season where, the XI players picked themselves. But if SAF decided to go with a 4-5-1/4-3-3, we could have Scholes, Fletcher and Anderson at the centre and have Ronaldo, Rooney and Nani in attack. Alternatively, we could also play Tevez on the left, Ron on the right and Rooney in the middle; Tevez had played quite well for West Ham on the left last season. So, in all honesty, it is worth a try. Of course, the boss could revert to type and play Giggs on the left and Ronaldo on the right.
A 4-4-2 against Kyiv looks unlikely, although it will be welcome. But the best news, however, is that Vidic will play. This should allow the boss to play Anderson, as he would feel more secure at the back. Fletcher would do a decent job of mopping up in the midfield, breaking up play, with his industriousness, and hopefully, we can see Anderson do well today in a much freer role.
And I take this moment to digress ever so slightly by talking a bit about our young loanees. While in reserve level football, most of us might know that Danny Wellbeck scored 4 goals in a 7-0 rout of West Bromwich, it is also nice to hear that Frazier Campbell marked his debut for Championship side Hull with a brace. From reports, it seems his pace was too much to handle for the hapless defenders of Barnsley. Hmm… quite interesting, indeed.
Meanwhile, Darron Gibson played in a 0-0 draw for Wolves in his first game. Lee Martin scored on his debut for Plymouth. We will try to keep a watch on these players and bring updates, as and when we learn about them.
Back to the match of the day, though, it is time to stick our neck and predict the result (and scoreline) for the day. So here it is…
Prediction: 2-0 to United (Rooney, Ronaldo to score.)
Your comments, before and during the match, welcome.
Related items from Red Rants:- United Stroll Past Kyiv; They Also Hit Four Goals
- Man Utd vs Dynamo Kyiv: Preview
- Vidic Returns For Kiev | SAF’s Plan Sounds A Little Dodgy
- History Beckons As United Discover Their Group
- Man Utd v Everton: Preview
Tags: Game Preview
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:24
with recent results i would day 3-1 or 3-2 to united with rooney ronaldo to score and someone else eho you wouldnt expect to score.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:41
4-0
Rooney, Ronaldo, Vidic, Tevez
October 23rd, 2007 at 13:11
rooney tevez
nani anderson flecher ronaldo
evra vidic rio brown
evs
this line up should do the job.
UNITED can always score more goals than opposition.
October 23rd, 2007 at 13:51
Just read on BBC no Rebrov tonight…that should bode well for us - have seen him play for Ukraine and isn’t a bad player at all.
Imagine we’ll start 4-5-1 with Rooney at the top, and if things are tight revert to a 4-4-2 in the last 20 minutes. Annoying, but if we can guarantee a point, means we only really need to win 1 more of our home matches, so I can understand hte logic.
October 23rd, 2007 at 14:24
paul scholes is out .read it at manutd.com
October 23rd, 2007 at 14:28
1-2 to united, Kiev’s a tough place to get a result in,
but they are not really setting the stage on fire in Champion’s
league lately. 2 years back I might have predicted a 1-1.
But Sir Alex will be happy with a 1-1 this time around too.
October 23rd, 2007 at 14:39
jus read in the official site that scholes aint playing. thats def a big blow.
October 23rd, 2007 at 14:39
scholes is injured
October 23rd, 2007 at 14:57
UNCOOL no Scholes.
October 23rd, 2007 at 15:03
Well that gives Fergie a decision…no Scholes. No Carrick, No Hargo. My guess is he goes back to the O’Shea and Giggs pairing that worked pretty well at the end of the 05/06 season. However its worth noting Giggs had something resembling a first touch and final ball then, something he seems to have abandoned this term. I expect a central midfield 3 with giggs at the top of Fletch and O’Shea, with the possible introduction of Anderson if things need spicing up.
October 23rd, 2007 at 15:20
United will field a strong team but he will be conservative. An ugly or slim victory in this case will suffice.
October 23rd, 2007 at 15:53
I also see an ugly victory (I hope not).
Because this is an European away game, come hell or high water, we MUST play 451.
October 23rd, 2007 at 16:17
History has told us that the game will end 0-0. Why screw with history? I believe that all of our team’s attacking charm and and ability is confiscated at their customs gate at the airport. British clubs play the way a rudderless Bismarck navigates whenever they travel beyond the Iron Curtain. Perhaps the wall has come down but English teams react to Russia like an outed British spy in Moscow during the Cold War. Seeking a safe house. I just don’t get it.
October 23rd, 2007 at 17:15
it is rather sad. we should attack. these are not the days of the great kiev teams. the side is mediocre at best now.
October 23rd, 2007 at 18:14
what channel is the match on, on TVU/sopcast? i can watch it on television but i want to try this system out ahead of the borough game, i clicked on the atchull match chaneel but all im seeing is some norwiegn sunday league thingm, is it on a particliur channel. sorry in advance for spelling, i feel like spelling like an idiot.
October 23rd, 2007 at 18:19
Oh no!how i dread european away games!i really do not want to see o shea and fletcher.1 is forced but not both.and please NOT giggs in the middle.451 is just terrible .it makes easy games hard,good players play shite and is boring to watch. what annoys me is when with this formation we go a goal down and fergie immediately reverts to my beloved 442 to get a goal.what does this show?how stubborn some people are!still great.we should not play defensive against these inferior sides.play our game after all we are thrashing teams.why destroy the fluency?
October 23rd, 2007 at 18:58
OFFICIAL> so we are going with 4-4-2, anderson and oshea in midfield, giggsy and ronnie on the wings, tevez, rooney, and the usual back four , lets go red devils!! good game everyone
October 23rd, 2007 at 19:00
its a 4-4-2, with our reguler team in their reguler places apart from in the centre ofcourse, o’shea and anderson teaming up. i woulda fancyed pique in the centre than o’shea as he has proven to be a top quality defensive mid last season.
October 23rd, 2007 at 19:16
Dan: I’ve told you before and so have others, go to www.myp2p.eu and browse the matches to find out what channel is showing it.
On the formation, don’t be particularly surprised if Giggs tucks in centrally and Ronaldo pushes forward to form a 4-3-3.
Finally Grognard what pile of garbage are you spouting about the Iron Curtain. English teams have a good record against Eastern European teams, honestly less of the hyperbole please. Only an excellent CSKA Moscow team has posed much of a threat from Eastern Europe in recent years.
October 23rd, 2007 at 20:05
Evra injured during warm up(do i smell a French connection??)..Flecther coming to midfield and O’Shea goes to left back..Starting lineup still looks dangerous but have a look at the bench…we have Simmo,Eagles,Nani,Pique,Evans,Kuszack and Evra(was injured after final 16 declaration)…Other than Rooney and Tevez no strikers!!..The void left by Solksjaer is glaring right now and i am amused to hear that Fergie reaffirmed there are not going to be any more recruits in Winter transfer window…
October 23rd, 2007 at 20:07
1-0 United 10th min…Ferdinand!!!
October 23rd, 2007 at 21:44
4-2 in the end..pity ronaldo didn’t get his hat-trick..
p/s: arsecunt 7-0 win against slavia
October 23rd, 2007 at 21:55
def wasnt tevezs best, anderson put on a performance and almost scored to, 12 goals in 3 games is nice, way to many wasted opportunity tho.
October 23rd, 2007 at 22:03
Scratch my earlier comment in the other post, Kiev are a bunch of mugs.
October 23rd, 2007 at 22:09
JB; You know mate I have always respected your opinions even if I don’t agree with them all.
You have earned that respect from me because you are a smart contributor who uses knowledge and logic in your arguments. I therefore find it a little off putting when you regard my posts as garbage. I take the time and the effort to put my thoughts down so that I can share them with United fans like you. You certainly don’t have to agree with me but what you should do is realize that despite what you might think, I actually have a brain to and I do have my own opinions. My experience over the years watching this game tells me that you are in no position to be insulting my thoughts. Disagree with them yes, insult them NO. I somehow expected more from you. And English teams do not have a good record against Eastern Block teams when they play over there. Not too many historic wins in my memory. Just a lot of 0-0 and 1-1 games with a few close wins and losses.
October 23rd, 2007 at 22:27
I don’t know who was more impressive tonight, Arsenal for putting seven behind a weak Slava Prague side or United scoring an easy 4-2 win in very hostile conditions deep in the Ukraine?
One thing is clearly evident from today’s matches. Easter Block teams are nothing more than complete and total shite and don’t belong in such a prestigious competition. I for one do not believe that just because you are some kind of chanpion from a pretender league that you should be competing against the best teams of England, Germany, Spain, France, Italy etc.
What should be done is the creation of a second tier competition of Champions from smaller or less successful countries. Really folks watching Arsenal just play with tossers like Slava was a disgrace. And if one really wants to hear it, if United actually had their “A GAME” working they not only would have scored 7 or 8 goals tonight but they would never allowed two goals against from such a bunch of wankers.
Tonight was a big relief and I’m glad the boys recognized that they were playing pathetic competition and decided to attack them. Arsenal on the other hand were bloody well frightening tonight. Their pace and beautiful one touch passing was really impressive. What a great game from both Fabregas and Walcott. We do play them very soon and we better patch up the lapses on defense and the lack of focus from van der Saar better be a one time occurance. His lack of form tonight reminds me of his lack of form for most of last year. Even Almunia made two big stops when they were needed tonight. Edwin has been good this season but this game did worry me. Still, more positives came out of the game than negatives. Hell, we scored four goals on the road in the Champions League and we have discovered a new goal scoring god in Rio Ferdinand. Have a Guinness on me!
October 23rd, 2007 at 23:00
grognard, you post about jb, it, it just seems a bit a pansy and slightly homo, my friend is a pherepist who is great with people who’s ready to come out the closet, i think i should e-mail his address to you.
October 23rd, 2007 at 23:27
Apologies for the crude dismissal of your earlier post Grognard and my apologies for any offence caused, that was certainly not my intent. Garbage was too strong/an inappropriate word to use but I still do not agree with your comments. Now a quick analysis of English teams record versus eastern European teams has revealed the following (warning the figures may not be completely right as I could have missed a match somewhere but they are close enough to illustrate the point).
Since the 2000/01 (including results up to this evening) season English teams have met Eastern European teams 40 times in the Uefa CL proper and in 3rd round qualifiers for the competition. Overall English teams boast an extremely healthy 77.5% win ratio. However what is more interesting is the lack in discrepancy between away and home records. Home win ration stands at 80% with away wins at a surprisingly high 75%. Given that the away win ratio for the CL this year is 42.5% and typically floats below the mid 40 mark, a figure of 75% is an impressive, despite the quality of the opposition.
Spanish clubs in the same time period played Eastern European teams 34 times with an away win ratio just shy of 50%. So I wouldn’t say English clubs have any particular problem with the Iron Curtain trips other than any difficulties usually occurring on away trips in Europe.
As for a second tier competition, it is a no go for two reasons. Firstly the car crash that is the Uefa Cup will scare lesser nations off and the CL as it is, is too big a money spinner for all involved.
Dan: People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones; after all you’re the one with the ‘pherepist’.
October 24th, 2007 at 2:30
dan; before you advise others learn how to spell. Pherapist? You can’t even call that a typo because the “T” key is nowhere near the “P” key. I don’t need to hide in any closet thank you but I know of somebody who should leave his cell and go back to school. Grow up pal OK! I was responding to a comment JB made. Sorry you felt left out. And you talk about me being in the closet. Thilly boy!
October 24th, 2007 at 2:48
JB; Apology accepted and thanks. Perhaps I overreacted but that is the nature of e-mail. If you said that to my face I probably would have taken it with the satirical intent that it was given. Anyway, water under the bridge. Your research is great but perhaps I should clarify the fact that when I talk about English clashes with Eastern Block teams, I am referring to just away games and above all, I was going back to the early seventies. I’ve been a passionate follower of the old European Cup, UEFA Cup and the now defunct Cup Winners Cups. I remember many a tie back then that were always hard fought battles. And for good reason. Back then the Eastern Block teams were all solid sides who never lost players to the West due to money. Jeez! I remember when Poland and Russia were soccer powers.
I grant you your argument since 2000 but then again, the matchups haven’t always been fair considering the changing financial face of the game. Still, more often than not, English teams have a problem playing in these hostile environments where the travel, culture shock, poor playing fields, weather and bad food can be a very good equalizer. Todays matches involving both English sides has shown how far down the toilet those once proud Eastern clubs have been flushed. It wasn’t just that they were bad bad, but the lack of passion and desire on their part was appalling.
I certainly hope United tighten their defense up for future CL clashes and especially the upcoming game against Arsenal. I am not a Gunners fan but I recorded their win today because it was not just a goal scoring treat but a primer on how to attack with pace, movement off the ball and one touch passing. Did you catch that game? Walcott was great but I must admit that Fabregas has become quite the player. A contrast to that is watching how uninspired slow and lethargic Ronaldinho looked against Rangers. I’m sure the rumors that Fergie is looking to try again to acquire him are false but just in case, FERGIE DON’T DO IT. He’s a bum!
October 24th, 2007 at 9:08
man it was late at night, i couldnt be botherd to spell since i was half asleep, i just found your comment really funny. thilly boy lol.
October 24th, 2007 at 9:43
hahaha whats more entertaining, the comments or the match??
October 24th, 2007 at 11:40
Did not expect the victory to be such big. Good game. Lucky thing Anderson performed! If not with Scholes out, we are in big trouble. Anyway, Glory Glory Man Utd!
October 24th, 2007 at 13:02
im not a physio, but cartredge(lol) damage is something that can take months to heal right, SAF said that was scholes’ injury
October 24th, 2007 at 14:29
I’m surprised at the lack of “wow’s” for Anderson???
I think our new little midfield genius played brilliantly. To keep things in perspective, he had to take over Scholes’ ‘creative’ role and did it brilliantly. Coupled to this the fact tht he does not need ‘covering’ in the defending department…damn!!!
I say it again, give him a couple of seasons and he will be much better than Fabregas can ever dream of being.
Yes, I know its early days, but, damn… I can see why SAF splashed all that money for him. (Long Live Fergie!!! - I promise I will never question your judgement again).
On a second note, I am glad I was wrong regarding this game. We actually played attacking football.
At the rate we are starting to gell now, if I were a Arsenal or Liverpool supporter, I would definitely be scared shit. Our team looks amazing going forward, and solid at the back. Then again we always looked amazing going forward (just failed to score goals “those years” when we grinded out 1-0 wins).
I would like to know, What is the general consensus lately regarding Anderson?
October 24th, 2007 at 14:56
i think anderson is coming along, his confidence is growing, yesterday he started running at defenders, and wasnt afraid of the ball, a few more games and maybe we can see him in a better form. from what i saw of him in portugal, was that he can run with ball better than almighty ronaldo, so we have to wait and see.
October 24th, 2007 at 14:59
Is Scholes Injury that serious? OH MY GAWD!
October 24th, 2007 at 15:18
Dan, you mean to say he can really dribble better than Ronaldo?
Damn I seem to love this guy more and more.
I dunno, it seems like I’m developing some sort of obsession over Anderson?!?!
I almost seem to like him more than Tevez. Strange.
October 24th, 2007 at 15:28
i know what you mean, when united signed nani and anderson, everyone was going gaga over nani, while i was amazed at anderson, i even said forget about nani, anderson is the one we should look at, anderson’s skill in dribling is def on par with ronaldo and can be better but i already belive he’s a better dribler than ronaldo(when on form)
October 24th, 2007 at 15:38
Anderson was good, not great. His offensive runs and especially his passes were fine especially that beautiful through ball to our player that was followed by the penalty call. That was sublime. His weakness was not knowing when to slow things a bit and wait for reinforcements before continuing attacks. This inpatients occasionally caught us on our heals as Kiev were more than willing to attack us. Scholes on the other hand slows the game down too often and kills more counterattacks than he creates. In past years Scholes would have made that beautiful ball into space that led to the penalty. This year he would have offered up a back pass. There is a right time and a wrong time when slowing down the tempo of a match. Anderson will learn that. Then his skills will be magnified. He has great potential but I wouldn’t be singing his praises just yet. He’s got a lot to learn. And although he is a good dribbler, he has not shown me that he is in the same league as Ronaldo yet.
October 24th, 2007 at 15:48
karl, ever since the 2005 u-17 world cup, ive has an obsession over anderson, just look at my youtube page nothing but anderson videos, and some other ones too, this guy will be ret, and u i agree with groognards last post, he does need to know when to slow down and speed up, but hes only 19, time will tell
October 24th, 2007 at 15:50
Karl, although I am enthused as you I would like to remind you that Arsenal won 7-0 yesterday so it is we who should also be scared. They looked bloody well awesome and they didn’t give up 2 goals nor did they give the opposition 2 chances to score in the game. We were great on the road in a very hostile environment so many positives should be taken from that. Still Arsenal I feel is the real deal and should be respected and feared. If their is any flaw in our attack it is the fact that we waste far too many great opportunities and that on occasion we lack the killer instinct to not just finish an opponent off, but totally demoralize them. Again I submit, Arsenal did that. They also made the most of their chances. We need to improve our finishing percentage in order to be able to truly finish an opponent off. Yesterday, a cheap penalty helped us but we still only won by two.
Kiev will probably work on their game before they play us in two weeks so it may be harder to beat them again by scoring 3 or more goals. A SHITE! NO! We should offer them up a good sound beating at Old Trafford similar to the one Roma received last season. But with already 9 points in the bag , I doubt Fergie will field his best team and he may play it even more cautious knowing that we coughed up two goals in the first leg. We can only hope for an old fashioned whipping.
October 24th, 2007 at 16:12
honestly, i was JUST about to bring up that point about our much lauded defence taking two naps during the game. both conceded goals were gifts and shouldnt be happening to a team that boasts the best defence in england.
HOPEFULLY, it isnt gonna stick. but since ferdinand(who is still a great asset to the club) has had a history of napping in games. im honestly worried. maybe it wont stick…… maybe it wont stick… i hope i hope
anderson was good in the game, better than nani’s performances when he started. andy > nani at the moment i feel. and central midfielders are more dynamic and have higher requisites as they control and dictate the game. andy did a pretty good job. but as everyone knows, he can improve and has potential. just happy we are not crippled with regards to creativity as we ought to be with scholes, carrick and hargreves out.
anyway about arsenal. any neutral and rational football fan would know that they have mad skills and are in stunning form. an unbeaten start to the season…. but no big four clashes have occured for them. hopefully, man utd will bring them down a peg or two.
pace and creativity…but lacking steel…. a frightening combination none the less. but we seen these kinda teams get beat before. mostly by united.
pray guys… just pray our form goes from strength to strength
and we win…..
October 24th, 2007 at 16:34
Off the topic for a bit. What do all of you think of this Berbatov/Jol rift that seems to have been stoked even more by Berby’s reluctance to come on to the pitch on Monday? I am reading all over the net in many media articles claiming that now is the time for United to pounce and bring Berbatov to Old Trafford. Personally, I have been a big fan of Berbatov in the past but if what I hear is right, I have lost all respect for the man and feel he would be the last thing United need in the dressing room. To refuse not once but twice to go on as a substitute and then only go on after he was ordered a third time. Man thats just not kosher in my book. Only a selfish and very childish player would do that to his manager and his team.
If he did that to Fergie he would get the boot thrown at him in front of all the fans as well, multiple blow dryers would be instantly in use. Fergie would also have the tosser personally escorted to the airport for a quick and final one way flight out of town.
The question I bring up to all of you is this; DO WE NEED A STRIKER LIKE THAT ON OUR TEAM?
I think he would be a cancer and a bookend for Mr Cripple in the Minds Eye Saha. Both of them could feed off each others negative vibes, which would not take long to spread in the locker room should United go through a bad spell of form.
It is clear to me anyway that United are in preparation to incorporate a 4-3-3 formation in the future. They need a central striker with two semi wing/strikers operating just in front of the main guy in the front and middle. This is the only way to allow playing time to Tevez and Rooney while spending bucks to buy a big striker which would improve our aerial game and our presence inside the 18 yard box. We are playing fine now but we would be completely awesome in that very offensive formation. With a midfield consisting of Ronaldo and Nani on the corners and our holding man Hargreaves in the middle, I think that this formation could work. Then again, I am still a traditionalist and the emergence of Anderson will probably lead Fergie to keep things as they are or use a 4-5-1 formation with the two wide midfielders playing more like wingers. I guess you could even call that 4-3-3. The emergence of Tevez as a solid partner to Rooney has given us less incentive to buy a big name striker like a Berbatov.
What we need is two cheaper and much younger prodigy-like forwards who we can use as subs and who can build on their experience and develop with time. This is why the one real mistake Fergie has made was letting Rossi go. We need to find the Bojan’s, Messi’s and Aguero’s of the world who are not already on big cubs and bring a few to Old Trafford. The younger Tevez was a good start but he is still too young to contribute to the big club. Players round the age of Anderson or around 20-21 would be ideal. Throw out some names people.
October 24th, 2007 at 17:27
nope the players around 18-20 and the really gifted and talented 17 year olds. i think thats what saf is doing, just that its 17 year olds, tribulbullshit reports say that saf is keeping tabs on athletico bilbo(thats how you say it right?) teens
October 24th, 2007 at 18:59
Fergie will always be looking for 17 to 20 year olds but he needs to look between 20-22 to find somebody who can be a super sub and and start once in a while. He also has to have potential to improve and fight for more playing time with the starting eleven. A young Solksjaer would be so ideal. I tell you I was really impressed with Arsenal’s young Dane Niklas Bendtner. He’s just what the doctor ordered. Someone like that or even better, a Walcott clone. Theo looks to be finally coming in to his own and he looked very comfortable playing the forward position as opposed to his traditional wing placement. Man Arsenal has some super youth. Say what you want about Wenger but that man and his scouts know how to find young talent. Especially the kind that isn’t always on the Real or Barcelona radars.
And dan, if SAF is keeping tabs on the youth program at Atletic Bilboa, he should also check out Atletico Madrid. They are responsible for a lot of great talent like Torres and now Aguero as well as many others. Sporting Lisbon is great for midfielders but as we all know, Portugal has not produced an out and out striker of world class quality since Eusebio. In fact, their best striker plays on the wing. A chap named Ronaldo.
October 24th, 2007 at 20:42
lol a chap named ronaldo but isee what you mean now and i agree, campbell has 1 of best goalscoring records ive seen in ages albeit second division sides, 2 goals on his tigers debut, and brandy is highly-rated, dont forget andy can play as a striker.
October 24th, 2007 at 20:46
I think some of the Arsenal youngsters do well because they are almost signed out of nowhere and so there are no expectations etc (bar Walcott). SAF on the other hand buys young players, i.e Nani and Anderson, who are already good and so we have to cash out.
Grognard, with regards to the Berbatov thing, I hope SAF sees through him. I think we can sign better players too. I’d like to see a young van Nistelrooy type player come in. Ideas anyone?
Bilbao are renowned for bringing through youth players and so if these rumours have any truth in them, it is definitely good news.
October 24th, 2007 at 21:31
If we can find our future forwards through our own youth system than that is great but England very rarely ever turns out great forward talent. We are great when it comes to defenders and defensive minded midfielders. Occasionally a Joe Cole or a Rooney, Owen, Scholes, Beckham and Shearer shows up. But it’s the Ledley King’s, Terry’s, and Neville’s that seem to be coming up the youth systems in England. Therefore, if we are to find flair, search abroad or rape West Ham’s youth system, which is far superior to everyone else.
October 24th, 2007 at 22:05
search abroad or rape West Ham’s youth system, which is far superior to everyone else
They were good at one point of time. Now with the Icelandic millions, that system of theirs could very well be shelved. They were partly responsible for inflation of player prices this season: they were the first one to offer 16 million for Darren Bent.
October 24th, 2007 at 22:08
Sorry people for not bringing out a match report. Shame I couldn’t catch the match thanks to some pressing personal work. I will get a mini report out based on the extended highlights that I managed to catch, other wise, this comment thread seems good enough to give others an idea how well or not we played.
Here’s the link to the 11 minute clip btw: Click
I must admit, Anderson had a stormer of a game. Three passes, especially, were outrageous. *Sigh* I missed the game.
October 25th, 2007 at 1:03
Red Ranter; I am going by two recent sources regarding West Ham youth factory. Sky Sports pre-game story on West Ham and an article that read I believe in the Guardian online that stated the same. Before you lambaste me for every frakken thing I say, consider the fact that I don’t live in England or even on the European continent. I get my information strictly from tv and the internet. I’m sure you living in England that puts you in a better place to get the real skinny on what’s happening. You have other sources and here things from people in the know all the time. All I can do is talk about things that I read or observe. It’s not like I pulled out that fact from a bloody hat you know.
October 25th, 2007 at 1:21
Betfair Kid; You are asking if I haveany ideas on young talent available? The best one available in my humble opinion is Huntelaar of Ajax. He’s a little more established but h is a goal scoring machine and the closest thing to van Nistelrooy. Alves is a possibility too but as far as what’s out there, God only knows. Someone who blew me away in the Under 20’s World Cup and who dominated in his short debut for Bayern is an attacking midfielder/forward named Toni Kroos. This kid can do it all. He scored plenty of goals in that tournament too. He would be more of a Walcott type but with superior skills in passing and finishing. His crossing looks outstanding too as he provided two crosses that went for goals in his ten minute debut for Bayern. He is only 17 and so he is just what the doctor ordered.
There are two problems however. United and the EPL in general has a problem with German players (which confuses the hell out of me since they are perfectly suited to the British game and because they are far superior to a lot of the crap that’s bought from France, Holland and Africa) so I don’t see United or anybody else going after him until he becomes the heir apparent to Ballack. The other problem is that Bayern Munich would be complete utter wankers to ever let him go.
South America is probably where we should go because United has really incorporated the Latin American style and flair that is very prominent with many of their existing players.
I personally like Argentinian players more than Brazilians because they play more within a team system than young Brazilians like Kerlon. Less of a learning curve but a touch less Samba flair. Portuguese are also great but like I stated in an earlier post, their lone quality striker is a right winger presently plying his trade at Manchester United.
October 25th, 2007 at 1:29
yea anderson’s second half was amazing running down balls running at defenders using alot of flair and he was soooo close to getting on the score sheet. Only problem was like evryone has said control the ball slow the pace of the game and play keep away with a 2 goal lead you can do some of that and not piss off the fans and manage the game tempo better but I will definitely be getting an anderson kit in the future.
we did benefit from a close penalty and they lost one when vida got beat and dragged the guy down but we dominated most of the game.
Arsenal played slavia praha and got 7 so what we got 7 off roma last yr which is much harder. i think Sparta Praha is a better team out of czech i guess they didnt make the cut this year? I saw them beat hearts in Scotland then get the draw in Prague durring UEFA cup last yr they are a good side that has seen the likes of Cech, Nedved, and Rosicky off to bigger clubs. but czech should be central europe not eastern block.
October 25th, 2007 at 1:38
…….any news on scholesy/ Evra??
October 25th, 2007 at 1:53
[Grognard]
You are being a bit too unfair on me. I did not try to lambaste you. My statement on West Ham was a little flippant, I admit. I was trying to say that the future for their youth system does not augur well. My statement was an opinion, and I am really sorry if it came across as rude. (I still wonder if I sounded a little rude) I was trying to be gentle. *Sigh* I guess I have to apologize, even though I didn’t mean it and get on with life.
And I don’t live in England. I live on the same side of the Atlantic as you, in the US although I am not American. I thought I had mentioned this earlier. Any way, we can start over again.
Once again, I just mildly disagreed with you, and if that’s a problem with you, it’s alright with me. I’ll stay away from discussions. Cheers.
October 25th, 2007 at 3:47
No problem Red Ranter. E-mails and posts are quite often difficult in terms of interpreting intent. What might sound like good old fashioned banter between friends at a pub can come across as rude or condescending on line. To be honest I totally forgot that you were living on this side of the Atlantic. Early Alzheimer’s I guess. And please don’t stay away from discussions. I honestly don’t mind it when anyone disagrees with me. I just hate it when they can’t back their disagreement up or if they are rude or worse, just plain old mean spirited. I don’t consider myself overly sensitive but I have to be honest that this blog although very interesting has been an experience for me. A lot of inpatient, bitter and quite intolerant individuals who demand that you think and conform to their way of thinking. Christ! You would think most of them were staffers of the Bush Administration. Although quite a few of them are great to read and converse with, there are those (and they will remain nameless) that make me just shake my head with frustration. Keep up the good work with the blog and please keep up your rants. I’ll know better next time that even if you strongly word your disagreements with some of my comments, that you are not intending it in a rude manner. For the sake of good old fashioned ranting, lets hope we can agree to disagree on more things to do with footy and Man Utd. Thanks for clearing things up on the West Ham comment.
October 25th, 2007 at 4:01
Gator; Yes we beat Roma 7-1 last year and they were better than the opponents that Arsenal beat. But keep in mind that this year we only beat Roma 1-0 and actually deserved to lose that game. Much can change in a year. I personally don’t think Arsenal are as good as we are but they are young and cocky and may not know any better. The way they pass the ball with quick little passes and one touch passes they have the class and quality to seriously give us problems if we play the shite defense we played against Kiev.
Also, people talk about their weakness in goal. Well, Almunia hardly gets tested. Their defense is very hard to crack of late. On the flip side, van der Saar is once again showing signs of cracking like he did last season. And it’s happening again after he has come back from an injury. This is a sign of age and that explains Fergie’s renewed interest in Iker Casillas. Although we haven’t given up many goals this season I must admit that there are times where we look a little shaky on defense. What we have had this year that we haven’t had for quite a while despite our success is good old fashioned luck and the benefit of doubt from the referees in the box. We don’t get that many penalties awarded, but we certainly have dodged numerous bullets so far. Just ask Nemanja Vidic.
October 25th, 2007 at 4:16
i think,united will play 442 and 4231 system.
teams like ac milan and bercelona can exploite the gaps
of a 442.so for europe,4231 is wellsuited. about anderson,
well,he can play as a wingback too.he and ronaldo could
learn some tricks from each other.
I can’t understand one thing,how can Bercelona find
those kids?why don’t united go for those south american talents?
Grognard,you are fighting everyone at the moment.when you are
cornered,you say you didnt mean that but you meant that(?)…..
October 25th, 2007 at 5:56
I think Arsenal havent been tested at all. Their defence is still suspect I really believe. Somebody needs to pressurize them. The reason for Arsenal’s form is the good form of players like Hleb and Adebayor which are the form players of Arsenal. Otherwise their system and play is always the same as always but they didnt win everything in past years .. They struggled a bit to go past Bolton lately.. The Prague team was no better than Derby’s imo. Really pathetic, I saw one half.
As regards to EDVS, I think we can safely put our trust in him for now. Anyways by when are Scholes, Carrick and Hargo expected back?? we need at least one of them for Arsenal match (preferably Hargo). A midfield of Anderson and Hargreaves would be a bit risky for now but very exciting.
Caution is the only fear I have now about us!
October 25th, 2007 at 7:10
Sunny; No I didn’t. And everyone is fighting me. At least I have an opinion. This seems to disturb some of you. Especially if you don’t agree with what I have to say. Besides, this blog is called RED RANTS. So let me rant. For crying out loud, I’m entitled to my opinion without getting insulted over it. I have a right to feel a little defensive. I don’t mind people disagreeing with me, I just don’t think they have to be nasty. So stop with the accusations. Like you would know what the hell is going on in my mind? Whatever!!!!
October 25th, 2007 at 7:25
Bestie you are right about Arsenal. Up to now they have had a free ride. They need stiffer competition. If they show cracks I believe it will be on the defensive side because they like to attack even more than United. I do have to agree with you about Hleb and Adebayor. They are playing well but Adebayor hasn’t scored for a while. The real fire starter is Fabregas and van Persie. The latter will be missing though when we play them so that’s a bit of a relief. I think they may have discovered a new position for the multi-talented Walcott though. He looked very dangerous and very composed as central forward playing the old Henry position on the left. More of that kind of play will force Adebayor to the bench as a sub.
EDVS is still better than most goalkeepers even when he is at 50%. However his standards are high and to see him struggle makes me feel a little uneasy. I guess we can be thankful that we aren’t the team with Paul Robinson.
As for Hargreaves, I have almost forgotten that we actually purchased the guy from Bayern. It almost feels like he has been playing abroad. Scholes and Carrick are good for nothing but slowing games down to a crawl and in Scholes case, he has really perfected the subtle art of the back pass. Personally I want Hargo back ASAP and to the bench with the other two. I’ll take my chances with the creative and energetic Anderson. At least he tracks back and works hard. His passes remind me of Paul Scholes vintage 1999. They actually have pace and move forward. WOW! I say throw caution to the wind with Anderson and Nani. They are good enough to play now and will only grow with game experience rather than sitting and watching. Arsenal struggled last year because Wenger believed in that theory too. Play the young kids and they will make mistakes, but they will learn. Arsenal are reaping the rewards of that vision and foresight. Experience is probably more necessary in the Champions league. In the EPL it’s a marathon and we can risk playing the new kids more. Remember that we are benefiting from the play of a great Ronaldo because he got to play a lot when he was 17.
October 25th, 2007 at 8:13
“I think they may have discovered a new position for the multi-talented Walcott though”. Grognard that was ALWAYS going to be his position, Wenger just didn’t play him upfront until he thought he was ready, but he is and always was a striker. And I have no doubt thyat at the moment we have the better team than them, and we’ll beat Arsenal. Unfortunately the way the dippers’ are going it looks like Arsenal will beat them and so they’ll only be 1 point behind with a game in hand…
October 25th, 2007 at 8:42
Grognard - how do you see EVDS struggling atm? I don’t think you can blaim him for any of the goals conceded against Kiev… and certainly not the one against Villa.
The first against Kiev was Ronaldo’s fault, since he didn’t stay at his post. The second was a very good strike from a player, who got all the space he needed for the effort.
I think you’re partly right about Scholes. He does slow the game at times, but he also often puts the ball, where there’s space. We miss some of his through passes from his earlier days, though. Today he’s more the player to find players for crosses and around the area - players who then make the next devastating passing move. But overall it’s Scholes’ job to get the ball to where the space is, and I don’t see anyone better at doing this than him.
Nani and Anderson surely look much more comfortable now than a month ago, which is great. But we saw against Kiev, what Giggs is still capable of, and I hope his performance in that game will be the start of a good run for him.
I think we should try not to be overly critical of this team, since they have won, apart from the indifferent Carling CUp, 10 straight games now. There will always be room for improvement, but I’m happy as long as our team does it just a little bit better than the opposition. And we also have to keep in mind the many many injuries, we’ve had. Atm I count around 8 players out, and winning 10 games in a row with that many injuries is quite amazing imo.
October 25th, 2007 at 8:44
Yes, I would also love to throw caution to wind and put in Anderson and Nani straight in against Arsenal.. but the problem is that these days the league has become such that you cant even afford to lose one match unlike earlier when teams used to gear up a bit later. So fewer risks are taken and this leads to lesser of putting in of youngsters. In fact, I was surprised to see Anderson start even against Aston Villa. Hopefully we throw most of the caution to wind, but one or two wiser heads in the team I wont mind. The point is even Anderson hasnt been tested fully yet. He can create and he can destroy but there is always a danger of being run-over by midfields like those of Arsenal. Scholes has the experience of a central midfielder unlike Anderson, who I suppose ( I may be wrong) has never played regularly as a CMF. I think Grog you too are really anxious to see how we perform against bigger teams this season. I for one want us to dominate the world and not be counted as ‘lucky’ as many ppl called us last season. I want us to play our natural game and attack mercilessly but yes there has to be element of caution a well, So i hope SAF gets the balance right this time around. But I still feel the team can gel better and the best is yet to come, so I would not be really expecting too much other than 100% committment and a burning desire to win from our players. I am feeling somehow this time around Tevez will play a crucial part in that match.
Red Ranter, sorry for starting Arsenal-United preview so early
If you dont mind telling, where do you study in US? and What would you like to be our midfield against Arsenal assuming the whole squad is fit?
One thing I am happy this year is that Tevez will force SAF in to playing our natural 4-4-2 like he did against Kiev.
October 25th, 2007 at 10:13
tevez will force him eh?
as long as he’s healthy. . yeah
October 25th, 2007 at 10:30
left wing or in the hole is andersons natrua postion, but he can play left back as well, but he has only once for gremio
October 25th, 2007 at 13:41
Grognard, from what I have seen on youtube (not that it gives a brilliant perspective) that Kroos does look very good. In fact, the whole German U17 side does.
Don’t think there is much truth in these rumours but if true, Fergie seems to be lining up a replacement for EDVS; Iker Casillas?
Saying that, we’re being linked with pretty much everyone at the moment - including about 5 atletico bilbao players on one site.
I know what is being said about Scholes and Anderson. I’d like to see Anderson playing more games because I think that consistent starts in the first team helped Ronaldo. I think it is right to get a balance though, and wouldn’t want Scholesy completely out of the team. A rotation between Anderson and Scholes, Nani and Giggs would work well I think.
October 25th, 2007 at 13:50
Redranter: quick question, what smilies can we get on our posts? It might help to put some of the comments into context at times (ie get across if you are being sarcastic, flippant etc).
October 25th, 2007 at 15:03
after talking to my best mate, a big gunners fan i think arsenal are fairly seceptiple to hard running and pressure in their own half. they seem to have multiple options which allow them to play this free flowing football,meaning that they play very simple passing football. never hitting hard or 50/50 passes but they the simple ball which is allowed by hard running. if we are able to pressurise the ball player, we would be able to shut out their ability to wait for the simple ball, to nulify their choice of simple options. in their own hlf as mentioned earlier in the post they are very vulnerable against hard working forwards and they lack height in their defence. rooney and tevez meet the first requirements, and agains set pieces i think our height could trouble arsenal.
with regards to anderson really enjoyed a player in the red shirt that looks to slick thorugh delicious through balls to our hard working strikers, and plays to their strength of being stronger and more determined to win the ball than the defenders. i just wished that he would grow in a bit of confidence and really take it up to a defence by running at them and be willing to really take them on with a bit of ‘ronaldino’ styled flair that we saw earlier in his career. but im sure time will tell and we will se this ability.
i also like grognards idea of following more south americans. their flair would and does really work in euyrope, particularly argentinans who seem more applicable in europe compared to brazilians (as a whole). i can definitely envison a united that is playing with a real south american stlye of play.
ps red ranter i enjoy your input into discussion threads, and i dont think thats what grognard meant.
October 25th, 2007 at 16:07
Its interesting now in the midfield engine round - pick two out of Scholes, Hargreaves, Anderson, Fletcher and Carrick! Any two of those would work…..
Future looks good there also with Gibson looking promising!
Anyone remember Park Ji Sung?! Almost the fogotten man since he has been injured, anyone know when he is due back?
October 25th, 2007 at 18:54
Betfair; The problem with EVDS is that he is quite often found napping a split second and so his reflexes and response time are just slow enough on his dives to make a difference. That is why he was beaten by long balls so much last season. He is also not always positioned as well as he should be on crosses. Don’t get me wrong, he is a great keeper but he set his own high standard and I don’t think he is living up to it. He was sharp early this year but yet again, he has come back from an injury and he looks a little bit out of focus.
Anderson and Nani need to be played as much as possible but this does not mean that we have no room or do not see the value of Giggs and Scholes. They are still very valuable players with loads of experience. Still, they are on the downside of brilliant careers. They will need to make more time for the new kids on the block who are better, faster and more talented at this point.
Arsenal can be beat and it’s their youth and grade B goalkeeping that will do it. I disagree mildly with Sam about their defense being vulnerable to the aerial game. Both Toure and Gallas are world class central defenders and great leapers. Arsenal’s beautiful short passing can be nullified by a good press but that is fatiguing. They also need to be physical with the Arsenal skill players like Fabregas Rosicky etc. Make them feel our presence and they should wilt. They do not have the grit and experience to beat United in a long campaign. However, they have en exceptional manager (even though I hate the bugger) and they can definitely beat United at the Emirates on class and raw youthful enthusiasm. Are they gritty enough to beat us in a long marathon that is the EPL? I don’t think so.
And heaven help them if Fabregas goes down. He is their engine. I honestly cannot see them or anyone for that matter beating United for the title. We are deep in talent (except striker) and we have too much class and experience to fold.
October 27th, 2007 at 13:37
grognard i agree that both toure and gallas are great centre backs, but i think against vidic and ferdinand and cristiano and so on they will be vulneable off the set piece as they concede a reasonable amount of height. they arent a very physically strong side compared to some of the other premiership teams and we are more than able to hold our own. thus i think at the back they will be reasonably vulnerable to any set pieces around the box.