Jun 05
The Defensive Dilemma
Jonny Evans has returned to United after a successful loan stint at Sunderland. Reports have it that the reasoning behind that move would be to fight for a place for himself at the centre of defence during the course of the next season and the season after that.
All this comes with the possibility (if not already confirmed) of Pique also returning to OT next season to fight for a place in the centre of defence.
This leaves us with a happy problem, and leaves the boss in an enviable situation where he can decide how to handle such extremely promising talents who have progressed very well (probably quicker than many thought, at least with Evans).
As we know, the centre of our defence is well settled, with Vidic and Ferdinand complementing each other superbly. Brown remains an able replacement for either of them while we do have Silvestre (who despite his faults can play as a decent centre-back), Heinze and O’Shea who can all deputize at that position. While the quality of this back up, besides Brown, could be questionable, they had given us decent performances last season that carried us through during times of injury to our first choice centrebacks.
However, it is critical for a club of our stature, if we are to be challenging on all fronts, to have quality in our reserves. Something we hope to get from Pique and Evans. Pique has progressed well for Zaragoza, playing regularly at the centre. He’s also chipped in with a few goals. I have managed to see a bit of him in the La Liga and liked the way his season has shaped up. He seemed composed for a lad as young as him and also seemed at ease dealing with aerial balls. Something the tall Catalan defender will see more of, in the EPL.
I couldn’t catch much of Evans, although I have read rave reviews about him all over. But Sunderland had one of the better defences in last season’s Championship winning side and with him at the heart of the defence he sure would have done some good work there. Before belittling his performances with the excuse that he played in a lower division, let us not forget that he’s just 19 years of age.
Now the problem that we will have next season is how to give these two young guys a good run out without unsettling our defensive pairing that is certain to start with Vidic and Rio (barring injuries). More importantly will they get the nod ahead of Silvestre, or O’Shea or Brown? And if so, then which of the two will get preference?
I believe Brown would be expected to feature more on the right side as Neville’s fitness seems questionable. A fit Neville would certainly start, but with the wear and tear that age brings into a person, be prepared for more injuries to our older players this season. That leaves us with Silvestre, Pique and Evans to contend with. Silvestre (although more of a left back) seems adamant to stay on and win the manager’s confidence. Personally, his presence in the centre of defence gives me the heebie-jeebies, although the team management still think his presence in United’s setup worthwhile.
But then wouldn’t we be denying our youth more playing time due to the presence of some average player, when these young players might show more improvements if given a longer run in the side?
Or should we farm out one of them on a short term loan within the Premiership to see how they fare in the league, so that we are certain of their quality in our league?
I would have actually wanted Evans to stay on in Sunderland at least for another 6 months to see how he does in the Premiership. Pique with his La Liga experience seems more ready to make the natural progression to the physical demands of the EPL.
And I would certainly want to see Mikael Silvestre sold. O’Shea is a much more versatile back up in my opinion.
What do you guys think?
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I’m with you Red Ranter.
A back up back four of Brown/O’shea-Pique-Evans-Heinze/Oshea would be ideal. I want Mikey gone!
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Yes, this season United Defender is the best in EPL, with 4 of them as a choice from players opponent in EPL. Good to see that our youngster ready for first team player. That what Manchester United all about, to give chance for youngster as they are capable enough, I can see Heinze, Silvestre, even Wes Brown is leaving.O’Shea is a good player I think, because he can score very important goal for us this season.
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i agree.Personally i would like heinze to stay and silvestre to go but on the other hand i don’t know if heinze wants 2 stay.He has already shown he wants to play in spain as he has held talks with Real Madrid and hearing his comments abt moving to real or barca. Silvestre on the other hand seems more commited 2 the club as he wants 2 stay and fight for his place.but pique evans and rossi should definitely be back.They r hugely talented and they’ll be great backups sp. when we r challenging on all fronts.i also think we should definitely get a new striker who is proven on the european stage.last season we struggled 2 score away from home in the champions league.
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Let’s not forget that when we won the treble, not only did we have a healthy rotation of 4 top-notch strikers, but I remember us having 4 very reliable defenders in Stam, Johnsen, Berg & May to rotate when necessary as well. I like the idea of young Evans and Pique being bled into this squad gradually, it’s not like they’re going to be first teamers right now. Besides, it’s a LONG season and Ferdinand-Vidic can’t play all those games.
Brown & Pique are able replacements at righback should Neville be injured or rested, while O’Shea is a utility player able to fill in across the back four or in central midfield (which I doubt we have much need for now
It always makes me nervous watching Silvestre play in central defense :S, so I had to sell any defender, it would be him, and not Heinze (I hope!). O’Shea can fill in here too if need be.
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Ooopsss…in my last post, I meant to say “…remember us having 4 very reliable CENTRAL defenders…”
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Lets assume that one defender will be sold. I hope it will be Silvestre but it might be Heinze.
Silvestre
We will be left with
1) Rio
2) Vidic
3) Gary
4) Evra
5) Pique
6) Evans
7) Brown
9) OShea.
The contenders for the left back:
1) Gary Neville
2) Pique (Will be given chances in cups and against weaker oppositions or when Gary is injured)
3) Brown (Will be given chances in cups and against weaker oppositions or when Gary is injured)
4) OShea (Will always be a sub and might never start)
5) Owen Hargreaves (Might not be used here)
The contenders for the right back: (It would be sad
, but Heinze seems to be leaving)
1) Patrice Evra (Similar to Gary, but might play a little more)
2) Silvestre (Similar to Brown, but might play a little less)
3) Evans (Similar to Pique. Evans plays this role for his country)
4) OShea (Will be a sub and might never start)
The contenders for the central defender:
1) Rio
2) Vidic
3) Pique
4) Evans
5) Brown
6) Silvestre
7) OShea
I guess it is important for Pique and Evans to be playing together because, they were together for some point in the reserves, and they need to be together to build that chemistry. I am sorry to say this but I prefer giving these kids more chances than Brown (Yes, I am looking forward for the future and I am not a big fan of buying players. If we dont give these kids a chance now, they will leave to some other club and we need to buy in future.)
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ManUtd.com piece on Evans to get a chance next season.
Rio-Vidic-Evans-Pique for center-back, Brown/Neville for right back, Heinze/Evra for left back. O’Shea the all-purpose utility man. Silvestre – you’re the weakest link mate.
Actually, I’d pair Evans with Ferdinand and Pique with Vidic. I dunno, they’ll do well together but I’d prefer having a senior partner alongside them.
And Brown should be starting at right-back for England tonight, hopefully. He’s better in that position than Carragher or any midfielder slotted in there, unless you are going to put Gerrard there and I don’t think McClaren has the chops to do that.
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I agree with Ahmed, although not exactly the same comparatively, but I too see Evans more like a Vidic, and Pique more of a Ferdinand. Hence, I’d pair Evans with Ferdinand and Pique with Vidic in some of the ‘easier’ matches, just for the youngsters to gain much needed experience and confidence. Very keen on seeing those 2 play, and play well at that.
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Wouldn’t Brown be ahead of both Pique and Evans for central defense – I think so. Brown finished the season very strongly, and I’m sure he’ll start tonight.
Pique and Evans will play in all Carling Cup matches of course, and they’ll get games in the FA Cup as well. Plus if Neville is rested/injured and Brown is needed in central, Pique will get games in the league on the right back. Evans, from what I’ve read, can play pretty much all 4 positions in the back, which makes him a great utility man… and improves his chances of getting games.
I also think the recalling of both these young lads means goodbye to Heinze I’m afraid… and for a lame price as well.
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Real pitty about Heinze though. Its rumoured that he might be moving for about 5mil. That will be a REAL bargain for any team (if you keep in perspective how much we paid for Rio – not comparing him to Rio, just to state how much a defender can be sold for). To me that is just as upsetting as him leaving.
If my memory serves me correct, then Paul Ince (at 7mil) was the only decent “out-transfer” that ManU conducted. All the other players were sold at ridiculous prices (Beckham, Ruud, Stam – have we ever received all our money for him from Parma?, Veron, Cruyff, Butt, Neville, Cole, Yorke, etc, etc, etc). Hope the Glazers can change this.
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Karl,
the reason we don’t get good prices are:
1) We’re not a selling club, so we don’t sell players in their prime
2) The players who ARE sold in their prime have fallen out with Fergie, so they’re are thrown out of the airlock as quickly as possible.
Becks went for 25m, right?
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yes, but still…
Becks was in his prime. As the most valuable face in world football, 25 was a real steal – Real made the money back in image rights incentives alone.
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this has been on my mind for a while. how to manage all these players, so they all get their required needs. for me silvestre ( who i do like) is excess and can be sold. heinze, yes i do love the unbreakable argie, just looked a little unsure for my liking. but then again he has been injured and was thrown in the deep end. in saying that i would be upset if he left but i do think that it is time to bleed our new generation. with brown and oshea being as versitile as they are and with pique and evans also adding a touch of versitlity to our back four i think we have adamant cover. unless the unthinkable happens again, like last season…who saw that coming?!? if it was possible i would hope that heinze repays the clubs support by having one more season with united just to provide experience to the youngsters and to just make the transition slightly less stressful for the new faces. i do agree with karl. man utd really dont do themselves any favours when selling ie ruud. yes i know with issues with SAF but think how much more united could have recieved had he been sold at the end of this season with a host of top european clubs looking for quality proven strikers.
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Becks was in his prime indeed, but in SAF’s doghouse, and their falling out led to a quick sale. I too thought we’d more than the 25 million we sold him for.
If Heinze is sold, then we just have to trust in SAF’s judgement. He is usually right with his decision on selling his players. Perhaps there is something he knows that we don’t? Besides, there has been almost no player to come back and haunt United for departing with him so far. It would be sad to see Heinze go, he’s one of my favourite players, but life goes on with Man Utd. We’ll adapt.
I must also agree that Brown is of course ahead of Evans and Pique in the backup central defender department, but I don’t think it’s by much. If Neville is rested, and Ferdinand or Vidic is in the same game, I’d expect Pique or Evans to fill in at rightback and Brown at centreback first.
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i agree that mikey’s presence on the pitch also makes me nervous, i guess if he stays on he’ll be mainly playing L back, as heinze is leaving. i guess 1 more season warming the benches can’t hurt. just hope evra stays injury free (fingers crossed / knock on wood).
about the kids, haven’t really seen them play but definitely will, defenders are hard to scout on youtube, u have to watch the whole match and get the feel for them.
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As I said, having either one of Pique and Evans makes more sense because that would be much more of a win-win situation. I know the reports of Evans being given more chances in the United setup this season, but loaning him out for say half of the season would give him more of a chance and that would also enable Pique to step in for Rio and Vidic.
In case of a long time injury to our first choice pair, we could always recall Evans.
[Sharath Ciddu]
I believe you got the left and the righ back slots mixed up
[Tomas]
I would like to see Pique and Evans pushed ahead of Brown in central defense purely because that is the only way you are going to see more of them play next season. I see Brown being used more as a right back.
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I think Evans and Pique have a real chance at Old Trafford. However, they know the hierarchy and will be made to be content with playing Pre-season, FA Cup and Carling Cup games. There is nothing wrong with that either. Hopefully, the new Silva twins will get a few carling cup games at full back too.
Heinze is leaving. It is sad but inevitable. He lacks pace. La Liga will suit him more and he’s 29. I would take the money and wish him well. I would use Evra at left back . I would sell Silvestre. I think Brown is a better centre-back than right back. I would be tempted to use Pique as cover at right back (he did well there in the CL) and Evans as cover as left back (as he often does for his country). I suspect we maysell Bardsley, although I rate him quite highly…
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How come there’s so little mention of Simpson so far? He’s a specialist RB and he and Evans were half of Sunderland’s defence in the second half of the season. Took more time to settle in compared to Evans but developed a good partnership with Carlos Edwards on the right.
From all accounts, he hasn’t fared too badly himself and provides an offensive threat too.
I do think Heinze will leave. It’s a pity but I’d love it if Evans and Pique were given a chance to break into the first team.
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I really don’t think we need to keep a few of these guys around. With Pique and Evans first-team-ready, I think we can afford to dump at least Silvestre and Brown and probably Heinze. As far as right back goes, we’ve had Fletcher and O’Shea fill in there when Neville’s been out, but I would like to see Kieran Lee get some first team experience. The same goes for Craig Cathcart. I love how SAF has established his defense around Rio and Vidic, but now I think it’s time to get the rest of the back four in place for the next few years. If I were Fergie, I would bring in Simpson or Bardsley to be Neville’s understudy for the year, while Cathcart and Lee are out on loan and gaining experience. I know that Pique and Evans aren’t as versatile as Silvestre, Evans, or Heinze, but I think having them at OT will give us cover enough to sell those three. Plus, with the three midfielders we brought in and Park coming back from injury, O’Shea and Fletcher will more likely be needed to provide cover on the backline, rather than the midfield.
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