Jul 23
Fergie Comes Around On Rooney
Alex Ferguson, according to a story on the Guardian today, admitted that Rooney’s real position is through the middle either upfront or just behind.
On first glance it may appear like an admission of past mistakes but it could also mean that he’s fairly confident about snaring Berbatov from Spurs.
That Rooney’s not a wide man comes as no surprise. We all have seen how we can’t quite see the best of him when he’s away from the centre of the action. He will give his all when deployed anywhere. But his best position is and will always be in the hole behind the target man. Thankfully, Fergie seems to understand this:
“I think Wayne’s best position is through the middle, either the front role or tucking in just behind,” Ferguson said. “He is aggressive, has good pace and the courage to go in the box. There’s no reason why he can’t get a good supply of goals. But he may have benefited by having someone with more experience with him. That always happens with young strikers. We have to define Wayne’s role better.
Ferguson stressing on the need for defining a role for Rooney reveals what he may have been thinking about him all along. He has done this previously, when he declared Alan Smith to be the next Roy Keane, deploying him in midfield. It was ill-advised and although Smudger was forced out of his central midfield position due to a horrific injury, Fergie realised he couldn’t let his experiment last any longer and bought Michael Carrick.
We did buy a lot of players last summer and with Saha staying injured, he had little choice but to declare Rooney as the next target man. It was credit to our fluid system (and Ronaldo’s ability to give us that aerial strength when the situation demanded) that we didn’t really have to deal with the lack of a target man. But there were plenty of frustrating moments where crosses were whipped and the ball was crying to be put into the net — either headed or toe-poked. And there were other occasions when we would break forward but both our strikers would be in our own half. Tevez and Rooney have dovetailed perfectly for us, but sometimes they seem to have too much hunger to want the ball that they forget their core competencies. It’s not a knock on their respective abilities, but rather, their hunger to contribute for the team’s cause every which way sometimes works against them. Which is why the likes of Berbatov (or even an injury free Saha) prove to be much better options to have.
Back to Rooney though, it is about time he was asked to play behind someone who knows where the back of the net is and is not in direct competition with Wayne. It will take the pressure off Rooney. Even last season, whilst Ronaldo was banging them in, Rooney somehow felt the need to try something cute or over do his finishing. He continues to have seasons better than previous ones, as Scott suggested in his post yesterday, but we are yet to see that marquee season from him where he really breaks away from his shackles (or whatever that is holding him back) and makes the world sit up and take notice.
Till that day, we would sound like scousers proclaiming this to be Wayne Rooney’s season. (That said, I now shudder having compared ourselves with our friends from Merseyside.)
* * *
Those wondering where my match report for the Orlando Pirates went, well, there wasn’t any because I couldn’t watch the game — thanks to work. If you want the official report, it’s here which, if you read without knowledge of the scoreline, you might be forgiven for thinking that we handed them a thumping. I think I’d rather read from one of the blogs, like this one — complete with player ratings.
* * *
Finally, don’t forget to join our fantasy football league, with prizes (for the winners, of course).
Related items from Red Rants:
- Man Utd v Barcelona: Preview
- Manchester United vs Sporting Lisbon: point to prove for Fergie
- Inter v Man Utd: Preview
- Spurs, Levy, Ferguson and Berbatov
- Barclona v Man Utd: Preview
Tags: Opinions/Columns
July 23rd, 2008 at 10:36
Rooney and United need a big season out of him. He does need to play off a big target man, which will allow him to drop deep and try to influence the game more, without the responsibility of getting on the end of the play which he sets up.
I wish he would stop tracking back in his own half and committing silly fouls in doing so, but you gotta love him for it.
But he does really need to stop having silly spats with other players and referee’s it sometimes looks like he is a yellow/red card waiting to happen, if you does that like dare I say Paul ince did I think he will be a better player as his talent will flourish. I am not saying take that agression away from him, but to channel into his football.
I hope we get Berbatov as it would be great for the team and Wazza. But Fergie does seem to be hanging his hat on him and if he doesn’t get him I can’t see him lining up a plan B, lets say Huntelaar which is worrying.
July 23rd, 2008 at 12:18
July 23rd, 2008 at 12:19
Wonder if this means we won’t be signing Tevez permanently. Bummer imo. Although Tevez has been used on the left in Argentina games.
July 23rd, 2008 at 12:50
Yeah mAN! Rooney on his proper position?! sounds like trouble for the rest of the EPL, well, the lucky slave bastard wouldnt have to score 42 and be glorified about it. its Roo’s time to bask in glory!
July 23rd, 2008 at 13:03
Teves could be part of an attacking trio with Roo and Berba, but i see him more of an impact sub, we’ll see!
July 23rd, 2008 at 13:20
Cannot see Tevez as a super sub. He is to good to be on the subs bench. Me thinks a move to Spain or Italy will be on the cards. Will be interesting to see how SAF rotates 3 top 1st team quality strikers if and when Berba arrives.
July 23rd, 2008 at 13:23
@phoenix red: Unfortunately SAF didn’t say that Rooney’s best position is in the hole. He said it was in the centre, either in the hole OR up top. (Coupled with his comments about the 23 being strong enough already) it seems as though we’re being prepared in case no new striker is signed.
On a positive note. If Utd. do get Berba, I’d rather see a 4-2-3-1 than a 4-4-1-1. This would allow Berba, Roo, Ron, and Tevez to play at once, if SAF thinks it is required.
I don’t think we need to worry about losing Tevez either. In a 4-2-3-1 he can play on the left, he can replace Rooney in the hole, or he can replace Berbatov up top. There will definitely be games for Tevez even if Berba comes. Though I too think he is the prime candidate to replace Ole as the super sub.
July 23rd, 2008 at 13:47
Well, that Rooney’s favored position is the hole behind the main striker is not news. When we do get Berbatov, what would be interesting to see is how Berbatov can also reach those high levels of work ethic that was characteristic of the Rooney/Tevez combo. Tevez and Rooney challenged every ball, put defenders under immense pressure, and fell real deep most times to help the back four. Now it remains to be seen how Fergie will get the best of both worlds from Rooney in particular, and the attack in general. Aside from lighting the EPL with goals last season, we were so stingy in giving some away. Is it possible to play a three pronged attack with Tevez, Rooney and Berbatov? I think so yes. Reason is Tevez would add the Scholes factor, giving Rooney his free berth behind Berbatov – which unfortunately He (Rooney) will kindly refuse in some instances – albeit forcing the ungrateful Ronaldo to work a lot harder. Against tougher opposition though, it might not be entirely conceivable. Let’s see:
VDS
Brown/Rio/Vidic/Evra
Hargo/Carrick/Tevez/Ronaldo
Rooney
Berbatov
July 23rd, 2008 at 14:08
@ WhiteY that side is good but a little attack minded, you can’t play Berbatov(if we get him that is not a done deal yet I will addd) Tevez, Rooney and Ronaldo, we would get killed on the counter. Berbatov is not in the side for his work ethic, more for his height, and touch you can’t compare Tevz, Rooney to Berbatov, they are completly different players.
July 23rd, 2008 at 14:49
Im pissed about Sir Alex playing a weak team everytime he comes to South Africa. For Once could he just play a first team and thrash pirates or chiefs…Really missing some Portuguese flair.
July 23rd, 2008 at 14:51
@Stephen: Last thing I am trying to do is compare Tevez and Rooney to Berbatov. I have highlighted their combined ball winning effects and grit to the “apparent” laziness of incoming Berbatov. My point is, if Fergie intends to play Rooney in the hole behind the main striker and at the same time incorporate Berbatov to be that striker, then it remains to be seen how we can get the best of both worlds(a very potent attck, yet not immune to defencive duties and grit). Do you see my point? If Rooney were to be played in aforementioned position, are we trusting Berbatov or who ever is incoming for that matter to show enough strength and grit in assuming temporary defensive duties, thus sharing that workload that Rooney quite so naturally likes to take on himself? I am saying that reasons for our outstanding successes last season are connected to Tevez’s and Rooney’s work ethic and energy while at the same time putting in their share of goals. We all know Fergie wants Rooney playing of an experienced striker in the season upcoming, so aside from my excitement at the possibility of Berbatov joining us, I hope our attack will still be retain its work ethic in tracking back when needed.
True, the team I put up will run into difficulties when countered, that’s why I mentioned that the team might not be reasonable against bigger opposition. But lets say we play a Chelsea, a game which would really help our cause overall if we could nick in some goals, the gaffer could play around that formation I think. Tevez can be employed in a three man midfield occasionally bursting forward. I know he played center midfield roles for Boca back in the day.
July 23rd, 2008 at 14:52
Fergie has not admitted anything
.
He has repeated a stance which he has had for a while – rooney is a forward and is great both up top or behind a striker. He did not say rooney is best when played off another forward and he did not say anything about making mistakes in the past.
‘We have to define wayne’s role better’ – he’s said this before too, that he needs to decide whether rooney will play up top or in behind, but there is still no indication that he believes rooney is stronger as a second striker or that he played him out of position last season.
Rooney himself has not indicated that his best position is in the hole. The main striker role was new for him last season but he said he enjoyed it more than he thought he would and that he himself did not really know what his best position is.
I don’t really care which position he ends up playing, as i’m satisfied he will be a key player for us in either position. Play him up top with tevez behind. Great. Play him off berbatov. Great. As a main striker, he provides a good long option trying to get in behind a defense. He also puts himself about and gives centre halves a hard time. As a second striker, he is excellent with his passing and working out situations and options. He is good at bringing others into the game and providing a killer pass. I feel he would be good playing off a forward who’s always looking to beat the offside trap, someone with genuine pace and good movement like torres or villa. Berbatov is a class act but he plays with his back to goal. A striker who plays on the shoulder would be more complimentary to rooney’s abilities when he’s played in the hole.
July 23rd, 2008 at 14:58
@Stephen: Certainly the 4 could play together against weaker sides without fear of getting killed on the counter; and WhiteY is also correct that the 4 could be played even against heavyweights when scoring is an absolute priority (e.g., the second leg of a CL tie when we’re behind on goal difference). Moreover, playing more of a 4-2-3-1 with Hargreaves and Carrick as DMs protecting the back 4 would also limit any susceptibility to the counter IMHO.
July 23rd, 2008 at 14:58
@WhiteY: Would you feel better if I tweaked the formation thus?
VDS
Brown/Rio/Vidic/Evra
Hargreaves Carrick
Ronaldo Rooney Tevez
Berbatov
What I want to get across in a nutshell is that, sometimes it will simply be irrational leaving Tevez on the bench, because the said improvement in Rooney’s play may never be achieved with Berbatov as the top man.
July 23rd, 2008 at 15:04
@Stephen: Oops, comment #13 was meant for you.@Eric the Red: You see my point, regardless of Fergie’s new romance with Rooney which we have to respect; unfortunately, playing the boy out of position was highly successful. Just think of our champion’s league games, pointer of course is the Barca game at Camp Nou.
July 23rd, 2008 at 15:16
@Stephen: Rooney and tevez could quite comfortably play in midfield and they would work their arses off. Defensively, they would be willing to help out and they have great energy levels so they could all play in the one team and we would not suffer defensively.
July 23rd, 2008 at 15:18
@ Whitey/Eric the Red, I think it would be great to watch, but feel that it leaves us too exposed, Carrick is not the best tackler, great on the the ball a la Pirlo, but for me we would need and extra midfielder in there, an Anderson or Scholes.
VDS
Brown/Nev Rio Vids Evra
Hargo/Scholes/Anderson or Carrick
Ronaldo/Tevez Rooney
Berbatov
i think that would be more sensible or 4-4–1-1 with Rooney or Tevez off Berbatov.
July 23rd, 2008 at 15:24
@WhiteY: A question: in your comment #14, are you disagreeing with anything I’ve said. I ask only because in my #6 and #12 I say pretty much the same as you including the formation you propose in #13. So, just curious/puzzled?
July 23rd, 2008 at 15:55
@ Tevez, why would we play a centre forward in midfield when we have ample cover in that position already?
July 23rd, 2008 at 15:57
The only way that formation i.e Berbatov on top , Tev, Roo , Ron behind, will work is if Utd get a attacking RB. Neville is past it and Brown is great at defense but not so hot going forward. Pity Alves was sold.
July 23rd, 2008 at 16:07
@Just1n: So you really think he’s past it huh? I know you saw him live against Chiefs, but was he that bad? Also are you sure you can dismiss his value based on that evidence. Just curious is all, because I haven’t been able to watch one pre-season match in its entirety so far, and would like to know what the people who watched him live think of him.
July 23rd, 2008 at 16:14
@Just1n: Give him a break, he has been out for 18 months give him a chance re gain fitness!!
July 23rd, 2008 at 16:29
Red ranter: Yeah he looked rusty but that’s to be expected. I have no doubt that Gary will be able to contribute this season but he is 33 and the legs are not getting any younger, therefore he’s ability to bomb forward to support Ronnie (or whoever will be playing on the right next season) is not as great as it was say 2 years ago.
When I say he is past it I don’t advocate dumping him, I just cannot see him playing week in and week out in a 4-2-3-1 formation that requires hard running full backs to support a front 4 of Berba, Tev, Roo, and Ronnie. That was my original point. If we are going to play these players regularly then Neville won’t work in that formation as he does not have the engine anymore imo.
Stephen: Don’t worry mate, i will defo give Neville a break. He is a legend, but unfortunately he won’t be involved in all the games and i think it’s hell of unfair on Wes , who has done fantastic in that position.
July 23rd, 2008 at 16:42
@Stephen: We wouldn’t, i was just emphasising that rooney and tevez would not shirk their defensive responsibilities and thus we would not be exploited defensively.
July 23rd, 2008 at 16:44
I read the Ferguson article regarding Rooney yesterday and I was ecstatic as well as encouraged. However, let us not forget the reasons for Ferguson playing him out of position. It was due to injuries or just plain negative tactics to prevent a team like Barcelona from attacking. Adding Berbatov will add the depth that’s needed up front but I still feel Fergie will be tempted at times to move Rooney wide as he does his job and doesn’t complain. I especially see that happening until Ronaldo returns. Nani will also miss the first two games of the season so Fergie may find a need to move him wide right from the start.
Nevertheless, I am confident that Rooney will play a more central and comfortable strikers or CF/SS role this season and thus, I picked him on my fantasy team. I’m expecting at least 10 more goals from him in all competitions. I think he will work very well with Berbatov. If in fact we end up signing the Bulgarian Cantona.
July 23rd, 2008 at 16:46
Brown is very limited. It’s fair that he is replaced by a far better player.
July 23rd, 2008 at 16:47
I agree 4-2-3-1 is the way to get the best out of Rooney. But for that we need Berbatov up top and its not looking likely. It would be like Portugal’s system except unlike them we’d have a decent striker. Rooney could play Deco’s role. Of course the problem is we’d need some serious bite in central midfield so our preferred partnership of Scholes and Carrick would not cut it.
July 23rd, 2008 at 16:56
@Grognard: Rooney played the central striker role last season, excluding a few games like the barcelona tie.
We may start the season with the crappy 4-3-3/4-5-1 formation to deal with injuries with rooney probably asked to play out wide, yes. Another option would be to play hargreaves right midfield for the first few games.
July 23rd, 2008 at 17:00
@ Tevez do not agree in your views about Wes mate, I have been a harsh critic of him but he gives us evrything, he cares about the club and that is more important to me than a better Johnny foreigner who is only here for the money.
Regarding Rooney are you saying that in the words of Harry Rednapp that he could ” do a job for us there” if needed? if so I agree.
July 23rd, 2008 at 17:07
I agree with the general consensus on Rooney’s future upcoming role increasing and him becoming “the force he always had the potential to be”. Although having him play deeper would take away much of the defensive role he has taken recently. His quality of play has undoubtedly increased over the last 12 months as he was forced to play a game he was not initially suited for. Now he will have the opportunity to utilize exactly those skills which were recently honed. I doubt anyone in the league can really be ready to see the full potential of a star who up till now has been sitting in the shadows of Ronaldo. It will be very exciting to see if Rooney can take advantage of this opportunity.
Some have mentioned Berba joining and playing, but I don’t think it necessary, Rooney down the mid tucked right behind tevez, with Anderson and Nani on wings, we have an excellent defensive and mid-field core, what we need is confident strikers.
July 23rd, 2008 at 17:15
@Stephen: If the foreigner is a better player then i would prefer the foreigner. Anyway, we have neville so it wasn’t a foreigner that i was talking about.
I think rooney could definitely fill in if required. I would rather see him play centre mid than in a wide midfield position. However, my point was that you said a team with berbatov, tevez, rooney and ronaldo would leave us open defensively and my point was that if rooney or tevez were asked to play deeper then i don’t think it would be detrimental to united defensively, as both are willing to pull their weight.
July 23rd, 2008 at 17:18
What Ferguson says is that we should be careful not to use Rooney as a utility man, just because he does the job without complaining. Rooney is the best overall talent in the squad, and therefore he’s used in many different positions. I think, SAF knows that Rooney is reaching an age, where, if we should get everything out of his talent in his best posision, he needs to play there more. The good thing for younger players about playing in different positions (if they have the ability and will) is that they learn so much more about the game.
But now is the time to send all that knowledge into the front line in Rooney’s best position, which is just behind Berbatov
Believe me that Rooney is the real deal, and even though he may loose his temper on occasion, I don’t think it’s anything to worry about. I’d much rather have him look frustrated than not.
And all the talk about him maturing… well he’s still only 22 (23 in October), so of course he’s got a lot to learn, which is only a positive thing. Imagine him in 3-4 years, when he’s learned even more. He’s probably the smartest player in the squad, and with his knowledge of the game, he’ll become lethal (even more) if he’s played in his best position from this season. SAF has always known this, but unfortunately he’s had no consistant player for Rooney to play behind because of Saha’s injuries. With Berbatov he’ll get that, and we’ll see him make his clever runs around the bulgarian.
I for one cannot wait to see him in that role.
July 23rd, 2008 at 17:21
And I forgot: If Rooney for once has an injury free season, there’s no limit to the impact he can have. Having him and Ronaldo in the same team is truly a blessing, at least in terms of football, because they are simply a level better than the rest.
July 23rd, 2008 at 17:25
@ Tevez I tkink we agree to disagree with regards to Wes, all I am saying is that the best team wins things not the best players, personally I love Wes and think he was superb last season.
I know what you are saying but I think there is no need to, Fergie will never play that system. I believe it would leave us open as they are good at tracking back, but are not midfielders, who we have a decent creative bunch who don’t just sit they set up play as well.
You need more than 2 midfielders in football today as sides hold onto the ball too much, and we would need to sit deeper and hit on the counter, that is how we play exciting football but also sensible football.
It is also a bit England to try and get all your best players in your starting 11 and we know how bad that has worked out!
July 23rd, 2008 at 17:34
rooney for me is more than over rated.he is a good player but nothing more.if you all trust sir alex.can he take all these years to find a good position for a world class star?he knows it,we know it.
it is not bad tactics that he misses all those one on ones,that he chips when he has to shoot,that he tries so hartd in vain.classy players did not use alot of energy and less of brain.
look at ronaldo.he does everything minus losing his head.figo,zidane,ronaldo,messi,rvn,all did their work minus that heart on sleave bullshit.
i know every player is judjed on his own but we can agree that next season will close and we shall stil be debating rooneys best position.
July 23rd, 2008 at 17:41
@ donibrasco The lad is 22 and has rarely played behind a target man, so give the lad a break. He has played out wide a lot which is not is position, he is a classic number 10 and should be played as one, then we can really judge him, he still got 18 goals last season which is not bad considering he misses a lot of chances!!
July 23rd, 2008 at 17:42
@Tomas: Rooney is very intelligent, but i still think scholes is the most intelligent player in the squad. In the premiership, actually. The closest to him is either rooney or fabregas.
@Rafski United: I don’t see rooney playing in behind tevez as tevez seems to struggle in this role. He is fairly ineffective when asked to play a main striker role. I don’t know why. His strength on the ball should have proved effective when playing on the last line and taking the ball into his feet. His hold up play should be fantastic but the role just doesn’t suit him.
July 23rd, 2008 at 17:55
@Stephen: Yes i agree. I don’t think fergie will play that formation either. I don’t think defending would be a problem because of rooney and tevez’s work ethic, but i would still not play the formation because it means playing these players out of position when there are other players who are suited to these roles.
Mind you, in my opinion rooney could easily play centre midfield and not look out of place. In doing so, you would take away that little bit extra he gives up front though, which is why i would not encourage it.
July 23rd, 2008 at 17:57
@tevez: Rooney’s central striker role was very liberal indeed. In fact Tevez played that role far more than Rooney as Wayne spent a lot of the season looking for weeds on the sidelines. And even when he played the lone striker role, we all know he is not at his best there. He needs a partner up front who he can play off of and who will spend a lot more time in the middle and in the box. And I agree with you about Hargreaves possibly playing on the right side or even Park. Hope Hargo’s knee is alright by then.
July 23rd, 2008 at 17:57
@tevez I agree we would miss his aggression through the middle. Mind you how many cards do you think he would pick up in the centre of midfield, he probably be suspended for half the season!!
July 23rd, 2008 at 18:00
@Rafski United: Rooney down the midle tucked just behind Tevez doesn’t work against the many teams that pack their defense with 10 men behind the ball. Tevez is not an out and out striker. He’s more like Rooney. For Rooney to once again flourish, he needs and authentic striker who lives in and around the box and can hold the ball up when needed. Berbatov will be that man. He’s also a better passer with greater vision than Tevez so besides scoring his share of goals, he will help create more chances for Rooney and others.
July 23rd, 2008 at 18:01
@tevez: Yeah that might be right, I don’t know. All I know is that they are both very intelligent players.
July 23rd, 2008 at 18:06
@Stephen: Much has been made about Rooney’s temperament of late but he actually did a fairly good job of reigning himself in last year. Still loads of improvement is needed but like Pele said a few months back, if he would stop tracking back so much and trying to win every ball and stopped running so hard, his dander would not get so fired up once he is fouled. He needs to expend less energy in areas where he is not needed and this alone will calm him down. That extra effort turns him into an adrenaline junkie and he has a hard time calming himself down. This leads to temper and confrontation. I’m surprised Fergie has not drilled this in him over the years. Even more so, he has him playing roles that bring the bad out in him more. Some times less is best.
July 23rd, 2008 at 18:08
@donibrasco: That’s pure bs.
SAF hasn’t struggled to find his best position… he’s played him out of position on purpose in lack of other options or because it was needed (especially in Europe) due to tactical reasons. He may miss some sitters, but if he played in his best position, he’d get more used to them and probably increase his effectiveness.
And saying that Rooney uses less of his brain than those other players is utter nonsense. He’s our best assist player,which takes brain, and he creates a lot of space for others to run into, which also takes a lot of football intelligense. It’s about reading the movement of the defense and the runs of the attacking players. Rooney is second to none in that.
I suggest, you look at his stats from his time at our club. You’ll see the impact he has, it’s quite amazing.
In fact, I’ll claim that players like Rooney are harder to loose than players like Messi or Ronaldo, because you’ll never win anything with 11 Ronaldos, but you’ll certainly have a chance with 11 Rooneys, because they’d all play with their heart on sleaves.
July 23rd, 2008 at 18:10
@ Grog, I completly agree with you mate, I suppose fergie has now does not want to loose that agressive side to his game, because he has that even when he is not playing well he can be affective, thats why I rate him so high.
He does need to work on his game, but he is young and I also agree he needs to wait for the ball to come to him rather than go looking for it so often. With he and Berbatov in tandem next season should be very exciting!
July 23rd, 2008 at 18:11
@Grognard: I’m fairly certian that SAF has tried to teach Rooney anger management, but with some players, the aggression just can’t be kept down, until they mature naturally. And Rooney certainly fits that bill. He’s his own man on the pitch, and he’d so into the games that he forgets everything he’s been told.
July 23rd, 2008 at 18:20
I don’t think many people realize just how fantastic the Tevez and Rooney partnership can be! Both players are 95 minute runners, from the start had a natural dual understanding of the type of game they want to play. They showed this a few times in the season when Rooney would shift a bit more in the middle. I agree that till now Rooney behind Tevez has not worked perfectly, but with a few games under the belt, more opportunities to play side by side, things can work out better.
On the Berba move, I am not against this possible deal, but I find utilizing the players we have more important than signing a new player. Although the general feeling at OT would be fantastic when tying up a deal with a player who has publicly stated his intent and yearning for club, the cost would be a bit high for his age. I think he is talented, but is he Man Utd material?
What is up with Tevez Jr.?
July 23rd, 2008 at 18:28
Just found the site. I was looking for something with depth and humour and I think at last I found it. Great read and I look forward to all the next rants.
July 23rd, 2008 at 19:00
@Tomas: Beautifully said Tomas!
July 23rd, 2008 at 19:04
Grog, this one’s for you!
I just hope he stays fit just to be able to hear more of this!
July 23rd, 2008 at 19:15
I disagree. For the majority of the season we played 4-4-2/4-4-1-1 with tevez playing in a withdrawn role and rooney on the shoulder. This is not a lone striker role. I consider that to be a rooney-tevez strike partnership. Rooney provided a long option and he done it well. I cannot remember once during the season where rooney was meant to be playing through the middle and he spent a large period of time out on a wing. I can’t remember him hugging a touchline. He made intelligent runs into space. Spaces in a back line are often found in between a centre half and a full back, and it is here that most strikers who play on the last man will look to be played through. That is good movement. A main striker who plays with their back to goal, often tall and strong but who lack enough pace to worry defenders would be more disciplined. They are less mobile and as such it is not their game to move about and exploit gaps in a team’s defense. I understand that this is your preferred style for a main striker, someone with more of a presence about them, but that does not mean rooney’s style is wrong or ineffective. Other strikers such as eto’o or villa use a style closer to rooney’s than a huntelaar or van nistelrooy. They are still two of the best strikers in the world. Henry is one of the greatest players to play in the premiership and yet he rarely seemed eager to get in the box. A big target man/goal poacher is not necessarily the most effective for a main striker.
I think rooney is effective as a main striker because he makes those intelligent runs and provides the likes of scholes, carrick and tevez with a great option. This is evident in the fact that rooney missed so many one on ones last season. Yes, he did miss, but he continually made more chances and for that he had to be making the right runs. He needs to work on taking his chances. If he was more composed, it would become harder for fans to argue about holding him in the same bracket as villa, eto’o, torres,etc.
July 23rd, 2008 at 19:17
I’ve been watching a lot of moscow celebration vids on youtube… and many are excellent! It seems the fans have found the time to upload them videos.
Especially look for fans’ reactions videos, like this one, where they completely lose it in the sitting room in front of the telly while friends look on amused! Well I guess most of us congaed around on that day..
July 23rd, 2008 at 19:18
For grognard, btw
July 23rd, 2008 at 22:51
Rooney and Tevez do make a very good partnership. You only have to look at some of our highlights to see that (my particular favourites are the goal against Boro when Rooney back heeled to Tevez to slot into or the whole second half against Wigan). Its just that after Rooney came back from injury in November they were rarely played as a front 2 after that. Ferguson preferred to leave Tevez as an impact sub. We didnt hammer as many teams in the second half of the season(ie win by 3 or 4 goals) as we did in the first half of the season when Rooney, Tevez and Ronaldo was our strike force.
What we need is not a 20m plus striker who will kick up a fuss everytime he’s left on the bench. What we need is as close of a version of Ole as we can find. Somebody cheap who can do a job coming off the bench. If we are going for a big striker we should go for Eto’o. I know he is a bit unstable upstairs but I think he would be perfect for our style and would probably cost less than Berba. It would really be a shame if he went to play in Uzbekistan
July 23rd, 2008 at 22:56
@Liam: So you don’t want an expensive striker that would kick up a fuss if left on the bench, but you would like to have Eto’o, who’s an expensive striker that would kick up a fuss if left on the bench?
July 23rd, 2008 at 23:14
@Stephen: The thing to remember about Rooney is he still is only 22 or 23 I believe. That’s so incredible when you think he seems like he has played for us forever. His best years won’t come for another 2 or 3 years so he has lots of room to grow and improve. Deal with his temperament and you will solve the puzzle for all that is wrong with his game. Calm him down and do as you say, teach him to wait for a ball instead of always chasing it, and he will be untouchable. Right now he is thinking like a defensive American football player who is trained to go where his man or the ball is going. Patience and a calmer demeanor will make many of us forget Ronaldo, because on his day, Rooney can be just as great. He just went off the rails a bit the past couple of years and Fergie admitted that part of the blame is his. I’m expecting big things from Wayne but he better stop smoking too.
July 23rd, 2008 at 23:20
@Tomas: There is a way and I have used it in coaching high school basketball as well as US style football. It’s called sitting him on the bench until he can prove to me he is thinking about the team and not himself. It’s pure selfishness and arrogance to constantly go above and beyond what is expected of you. Especially when you endanger the success of the team by picking up yellow and red cards. He needs to know that this kind of effort although admirable in intent, is undesirable in the overall team concept. He is hurting his team with his temper more than he is helping them. Sitting him on the bench when he least expects and letting him know this will continue unless he gets his emotions in line. Does Fergie have the guts to do it? You bet he does but up to now he hasn’t. To be fair to the boss, games today are all so vital there are rarely any times in the year you can sacrifice a top player just to teach him a valuable lesson. But if forced to, Fergie will. Especially if he has some insurance with the addition of Berbatov. I also think that Berbatov’s intelligent and often effortless style of play may rub off on Rooney and show him that running full boar after opponents is not the only way to succeed as a forward.
July 23rd, 2008 at 23:24
@Nico QB: Sweet. Thanks Nico. Love that Hargo. And if my wife was still around, I’d let him shag her. I’m wondering though, when are the fans going to write a song for the Grognard. Sure there may be a lot of hate lyrics but it would be fun nevertheless.
July 23rd, 2008 at 23:28
@tevez: I don’t dislike the Rooney Tevez partnership but I am honest when I say I see more negatives than positives. That doesn’t discount the fact that at times last year they were magical together. Still, Berbatov with Rooney or Berbatov with Tevez has the potential for a lot more because of Berbatov’s ability to hold up the ball, distribute the ball with vision and finesses and his ability to create magical moments and chances through one touch football. He’s not Cantona, but he is similar to him in many ways. He will make Rooney and Tevez better players.
July 24th, 2008 at 0:49
@Red Ranter: Well RedRanter, Rafa has the answer for you! Buy 4 more RBs (ok counting Simmo, make that 3) and we’re set to make the treble this time!
July 24th, 2008 at 1:32
I’m noticing that Ronaldo has himself another girlfriend and once again it’s a model. His nightlife and sex life is starting to get out of hand and it’s only a matter of time before Fergie awakens to it and does to him what he did to Beckham. Beckham was married to one woman and although he started to act like a fashion plate and celebrity, he never lived in the fast lane like Ronaldo. Ronny dumps a woman and has a new one within a week. He’s also obviously attracted to air headed gold digging fashionista’s and that spells bad news.
Now honestly, I don’t want to accuse Fergie of being a hypocrite because I love the man but explain to me why Beckham’s lifestyle was so unsatisfactory and unpalatable to him but Ronaldo’s orgies, girlfriends every other week and posh Hollywood style nightlife seems to go unnoticed by the Boss? I have to say that Beckham was treated unfairly and was uncermoniously booted out of OT for far less than what Ronaldo has gotten away with. My question is simply why? Why the double standards Fergie? I don’t see Beckham with tons of girls and ones that are posing on the beach topless. I see a married man with children living in luxury and enjoying himself as he should. I just don’t get why Ronaldo is being treated with such kid gloves, while Beckham who was the consummate team player had cleats kicked at him and was benched for numerous games. Ronaldo on the other hand will get what kind of punishment?
July 24th, 2008 at 1:51
@Grognard:
There is no double standard here. Ronaldo never missed training citing his personal life as an issue. Ferguson still maintains that Becks wasn’t fair to his team mates:
In 2000, Beckham was given permission to miss training to look after his son Brooklyn, who had gastroenteritis, but Ferguson was furious when Victoria Beckham was photographed at a London Fashion Week event on the same night, claiming that Beckham would have been able to train if Victoria had looked after Brooklyn that day. He responded by fining Beckham the maximum amount that was permitted (two weeks’ wages – then £50,000) and dropping him for a crucial match against United’s rivals Leeds United. He later criticised Beckham for this in his autobiography, claiming he had not been “fair to his team mates”
[Source Wikipedia]
Ferguson doesn’t have problems with players having fun because he can tell if they are getting carried away and are not focused on their job.
In a recent interview when asked which of his players were of the smarter kind, he said that Cristiano was one of them. We may hate him for what he’s done, but we can’t escape the fact that to satisfy his ego as a footballer, he drives himself to succeed whether in training or on the pitch. And I believe Fergie recognizes this.
And you said you see Beckham as a married man enjoying life as “he should”. It is not upto us to decide how he should enjoy his life. That’s upto him. As long as it doesn’t affect his football I don’t give a damn and that’s why Fergie also doesn’t seem to.
If Ronaldo starts skipping training because he needed a foot massage from an exotic woman, then I’d be interested to know how Fergie reacts.
July 24th, 2008 at 2:29
Three top strikers is perfectly reasonable. There are games when the Rooney/Tevez partnership will be just what the doctor ordered, others where Berbatov/Rooney will make sense. Rooney ALWAYS gets injured for a month or so each season and in that case we’ll have Berbatov/Tevez. Moreover I still think there are questions over Tevez’s fitness and I do not see him playing two games a week. Playing him in rotation will help us get the best out of him.
The problem last year was that we only had two recognised strikers so were forced to use Ronaldo as the third striker. That worked really well but Ronaldo is a winger and does more damage there.
I also find it strange Ferguson is so tolerant of Ronaldo’s partying. I mean if you believe the tabloids he’s had seven girlfriends within the space of a year not to mention the hookers and the one night stands we probably do not hear about. It seems a far cry from the stable family life Ferguson advocates for the rest of his players.
Really though Im not too worried. For Ronaldo these are obviously trophy girlfriends and despite going through seven or so girls (excluding hookers) in a year it doesn’t seem to be affecting his game in the slightest. Maybe it will catch up with him later in life but by that time ill sure he’ll be at Real and it will be in our interests that he fades Best/Ronaldinho style!
July 24th, 2008 at 2:52
Tevez is tireless. He has spent the last two summers on international duty and yet his industry on the pitch is still evident. Considering his playing style, he has performed remarkably without a break for three seasons. He could be forgiven for being fatigued near the end of the last two seasons, but he was still so influential. He was the catalyst for the west ham revival at the business end of the season two years ago. What about the barcelona away game last season? How much running did he do? He certainly didn’t look tired then. He looked sharp and strong near the end of a long, hard season in a big, big game. He has had a full rest this summer, so he comes back raring to go and probably hasn’t felt this good for a few years. If you have doubts about player’s fitness, it shouldn’t be tevez’s.
July 24th, 2008 at 3:06
@tevez: You would defend him, wouldn’t you? After all you call yourself Tevez.
Seriously though, I agree with you regarding his stamina. I expect a lot from him this season with the break he’s had.
July 24th, 2008 at 3:14
@Tomas: ok stop right there, you’ll never win anything with 11 ronaldo’s? didnt we just win the League and europe with 1 Ronaldo? Yes football is a team game and no one man wins games by himself, but wether you like it or not our team was built around Ronaldo. I understand that everyone hate ronaldo now, and that is fair and reasonable. the man has proved himself to be a first class cunt, but you cant deny the impact he has on the field. Donibrasco is right, Rooney is a very good player and one of the top in the League, but he is not in the upper echelon of players like Ronaldo, messi…yet(and I stress yet, i realize he is still young)
July 24th, 2008 at 3:36
In that article that was posted the other day from the Mirror I noticed that it said Ronaldo’s crew drank bottle after bottle of alchohol, but Ronaldo didnt have a sip. I think that speaks volumes about his priority’s. It shows he takes good care of his body, and doesnt want to let his off the pitch antics affect his football. as far as shagging any one in sight? thats cool as long as he straps up, cause im sure STD’s have never helped anyones footballing.
July 24th, 2008 at 4:22
IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO WIN WITH 11 RONALDOS
Simply because he wouldnt be able to make Edwin like saves or make a good defensive partnership like Vida and Rio or become Evra or even Brown, a lot of people pin us winning the double on Ronaldo but the reality is without our back five Ronaldo would be just another top scorer whose team won nothing out of their season.
July 24th, 2008 at 5:19
@Red Ranter: Well thanks for that background information RR. I was not aware of those incidents as back then that kind of news was harder to find here in Canada than usual. I do have a different opinion of the situation although I still feel that how a family deals with their sick child is nobody’s business. Missing a practice to attend to a sick child is no big deal. Perhaps Posh could not get out of the event she had to go to as it was part of her Spice Girls contract. Lets not forget that she too has a professional career. Is it more important than a practice? I won’t be the judge but I think Fergie made a big deal out of it. If he had found Beckham out partying or at that gala event, then Yes throw the book at him. I make no bones about being a Beckham fan and maybe I am a little bitter over how he was literally booted out of OT. For me I saw no lack of professionalism or focus on the pitch and although I agree with you about Ronaldo’s professionalism and attitude on the pitch, I still feel that he is being treated like a teacher’s pet. It seems he can do no wrong….even when he clearly does wrong. I just don’t get Fergie’s total devotion and love for this guy. I even think some of his on field antics that are often selfish and rude in nature are not punished. Nothing sticks to him. From now on he will be known as the TEFLON RON.
July 24th, 2008 at 7:03
@johnsom33: I’m actually one of the few people, who doesn’t hate Ronaldo in here, I think, so that’s not why, I make this claim.
Players like Ronaldo are the ones who add that extra spice, but that wouldn’t matter, if you didn’t have someone doing all the running. I’m not talking about Ronaldo and Rooney specifically, but their breed of style and attitude.
If you honestly think that 11 skillplayers will win you anything, I believe, your knowledge of the game needs an upgrade. If a team of 11 Rooney’s and 11 Ronaldo’s met, the Rooney’s would squash the Ronaldo’s, simply due to effort and heart.
But having one Ronaldo can be more lethal than having one Rooney, because there is room for a player with his qualities, when the rest of the team works as hard as the players here do.
I’m not discrediting Ronaldo, because I think he’s awesome. And I think, he played a major part in us winning the double. I’m not so sure that our game is built around him, as for instance Barcelona built their game around Ronaldinho. A lot of Ronaldo’s goals come from clever runs into and positioning in the area… simply his game intelligence. It’s not like we desperately need to give him the ball, he just often gets it due to the way he moves. Ronaldinho stayed on the left and ALWAYS received the ball out there, which is a different way of building the play around a single player.
July 24th, 2008 at 7:39
@Grognard: The “sitting-Rooney-on-the-bench” bit is absolute nonsense imo.
Neither he nor the team would benefit from that. It’s just a matter of him being that way, and he will mature with age. It’s a natural development. I do agree that it can be necessary to install some form of aid or discipline for some players, but Rooney is certainly not in the catagory of players needing that. He’s feisty, yes, and he does get bookings. He’s never red carded, and all though he could have had one or two for some of his tackles, it hasn’t happened. I couldn’t care less, if he receives a booking 5 times a season because of his temper.
Ferguson believes Rooney’s aggression and heart is so important to the team that he wouldn’t be without it. Of course, Ferguson can’t condone all of the tackles, because some of them endanger the health of players. It’s a fine line, but Rooney animates the rest of the team for success, and Ferguson has stated this quite a few times. This animation might lessen, if his aggression lessens. Unfortunately with the aggression comes a few bad tackels and a foul mouth, but there are certainly worse players than Rooney. I for one would be very disappointed, if Ferguson benched Rooney, and I would also be disappointed, if he didn’t bench him with the many important matches as reason. He should be kept on the field because of his desire, aggression and will to win.
July 24th, 2008 at 16:36
@Tomas: Sorry Tomas but I disagree with you. The boy is great need of discipline and he needs to not only reign in his over exuberance but his work rate too. He expends far too much unnecessary energy and that often puts him on the boil. Then he either makes a bad tackle, loses his temper or he makes a meal of a great opportunity because he has lost his focus and concentration. I have coached boys who are exactly like that. Trust me, he is not so special and so unique as you may think. What he has and why folks like you turn the other cheek is desire and talent. If he wasn’t so well liked for these traits, all those extra and often dirty sides of his game would not be welcome at all. Then you would have an Alan Smith. In order to be a great goal scoring striker, you need to be composed and in total control of your body and emotions. Rooney needs to learn that there are specific moments where he should be giving his all and that isn’t all the time. His heart and aggression is important to the team. It just needs to be channeled and controlled properly. That will limit the bad habits, but it will improve his offensive game by leaps and bounds.
July 24th, 2008 at 17:07
@Grognard: As I wrote, he will mature, but it won’t come sooner by benching him. I simply don’t believe that. It will come naturally to him, when he gets older and wiser.
I don’t disagree with you that he needs to channel his energy differently sometimes, I just believe it to be a natural development that can’t be hastened by punishing him, because it lies so deeply in him. Forcing him to think too much about it could make him loose focus on the things, he’s good at already.
And the reason I like Rooney is not so much his talent (even though it is phenomenal imo)… it’s his aggression and desire. And I don’t think, you can seperate his desire from those tackles. They may come out of frustration, but frustration comes out of desire to win and be your best, not from tiredness. Yes they may come, when he’s tired, but if he was tired and not had the desire, he wouldn’t make the tackles.
That means that you have to accept the tackles, if you accept his desire. I accept the tackles and can’t wait for him to mature his way out of making them, because it will only make him even better, as long as it doesn’t mean him losing the desire as well.
July 24th, 2008 at 18:25
@johnsom33: Well johnsom, the fact that his dad was an alcoholic i think nailed in him the message to be careful when it comes to alcohol perhaps?
Certainly when it comes to women he’s not as careful!
July 24th, 2008 at 18:50