Jul 23
Fergie Comes Around On Rooney
Alex Ferguson, according to a story on the Guardian today, admitted that Rooney’s real position is through the middle either upfront or just behind.
On first glance it may appear like an admission of past mistakes but it could also mean that he’s fairly confident about snaring Berbatov from Spurs.
That Rooney’s not a wide man comes as no surprise. We all have seen how we can’t quite see the best of him when he’s away from the centre of the action. He will give his all when deployed anywhere. But his best position is and will always be in the hole behind the target man. Thankfully, Fergie seems to understand this:
“I think Wayne’s best position is through the middle, either the front role or tucking in just behind,” Ferguson said. “He is aggressive, has good pace and the courage to go in the box. There’s no reason why he can’t get a good supply of goals. But he may have benefited by having someone with more experience with him. That always happens with young strikers. We have to define Wayne’s role better.
Ferguson stressing on the need for defining a role for Rooney reveals what he may have been thinking about him all along. He has done this previously, when he declared Alan Smith to be the next Roy Keane, deploying him in midfield. It was ill-advised and although Smudger was forced out of his central midfield position due to a horrific injury, Fergie realised he couldn’t let his experiment last any longer and bought Michael Carrick.
We did buy a lot of players last summer and with Saha staying injured, he had little choice but to declare Rooney as the next target man. It was credit to our fluid system (and Ronaldo’s ability to give us that aerial strength when the situation demanded) that we didn’t really have to deal with the lack of a target man. But there were plenty of frustrating moments where crosses were whipped and the ball was crying to be put into the net — either headed or toe-poked. And there were other occasions when we would break forward but both our strikers would be in our own half. Tevez and Rooney have dovetailed perfectly for us, but sometimes they seem to have too much hunger to want the ball that they forget their core competencies. It’s not a knock on their respective abilities, but rather, their hunger to contribute for the team’s cause every which way sometimes works against them. Which is why the likes of Berbatov (or even an injury free Saha) prove to be much better options to have.
Back to Rooney though, it is about time he was asked to play behind someone who knows where the back of the net is and is not in direct competition with Wayne. It will take the pressure off Rooney. Even last season, whilst Ronaldo was banging them in, Rooney somehow felt the need to try something cute or over do his finishing. He continues to have seasons better than previous ones, as Scott suggested in his post yesterday, but we are yet to see that marquee season from him where he really breaks away from his shackles (or whatever that is holding him back) and makes the world sit up and take notice.
Till that day, we would sound like scousers proclaiming this to be Wayne Rooney’s season. (That said, I now shudder having compared ourselves with our friends from Merseyside.)
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Those wondering where my match report for the Orlando Pirates went, well, there wasn’t any because I couldn’t watch the game — thanks to work. If you want the official report, it’s here which, if you read without knowledge of the scoreline, you might be forgiven for thinking that we handed them a thumping. I think I’d rather read from one of the blogs, like this one — complete with player ratings.
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Finally, don’t forget to join our fantasy football league, with prizes (for the winners, of course).
Related items from Red Rants:
- Manchester United vs Sporting Lisbon: point to prove for Fergie
- Man Utd v Barcelona: Preview
- Inter v Man Utd: Preview
- Man Utd v West Ham: Preview
- Spurs, Levy, Ferguson and Berbatov
Tags: Manchester United News
Opti (541)
RedDevilEddy (459)
Stephen (454)
Craig Mc (344)
Moscow is my heaven (272)
Rooney and United need a big season out of him. He does need to play off a big target man, which will allow him to drop deep and try to influence the game more, without the responsibility of getting on the end of the play which he sets up.
I wish he would stop tracking back in his own half and committing silly fouls in doing so, but you gotta love him for it.
But he does really need to stop having silly spats with other players and referee’s it sometimes looks like he is a yellow/red card waiting to happen, if you does that like dare I say Paul ince did I think he will be a better player as his talent will flourish. I am not saying take that agression away from him, but to channel into his football.
I hope we get Berbatov as it would be great for the team and Wazza. But Fergie does seem to be hanging his hat on him and if he doesn’t get him I can’t see him lining up a plan B, lets say Huntelaar which is worrying.
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Wonder if this means we won’t be signing Tevez permanently. Bummer imo. Although Tevez has been used on the left in Argentina games.
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Yeah mAN! Rooney on his proper position?! sounds like trouble for the rest of the EPL, well, the lucky slave bastard wouldnt have to score 42 and be glorified about it. its Roo’s time to bask in glory!
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Teves could be part of an attacking trio with Roo and Berba, but i see him more of an impact sub, we’ll see!
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Cannot see Tevez as a super sub. He is to good to be on the subs bench. Me thinks a move to Spain or Italy will be on the cards. Will be interesting to see how SAF rotates 3 top 1st team quality strikers if and when Berba arrives.
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@phoenix red: Unfortunately SAF didn’t say that Rooney’s best position is in the hole. He said it was in the centre, either in the hole OR up top. (Coupled with his comments about the 23 being strong enough already) it seems as though we’re being prepared in case no new striker is signed.
On a positive note. If Utd. do get Berba, I’d rather see a 4-2-3-1 than a 4-4-1-1. This would allow Berba, Roo, Ron, and Tevez to play at once, if SAF thinks it is required.
I don’t think we need to worry about losing Tevez either. In a 4-2-3-1 he can play on the left, he can replace Rooney in the hole, or he can replace Berbatov up top. There will definitely be games for Tevez even if Berba comes. Though I too think he is the prime candidate to replace Ole as the super sub.
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Well, that Rooney’s favored position is the hole behind the main striker is not news. When we do get Berbatov, what would be interesting to see is how Berbatov can also reach those high levels of work ethic that was characteristic of the Rooney/Tevez combo. Tevez and Rooney challenged every ball, put defenders under immense pressure, and fell real deep most times to help the back four. Now it remains to be seen how Fergie will get the best of both worlds from Rooney in particular, and the attack in general. Aside from lighting the EPL with goals last season, we were so stingy in giving some away. Is it possible to play a three pronged attack with Tevez, Rooney and Berbatov? I think so yes. Reason is Tevez would add the Scholes factor, giving Rooney his free berth behind Berbatov – which unfortunately He (Rooney) will kindly refuse in some instances – albeit forcing the ungrateful Ronaldo to work a lot harder. Against tougher opposition though, it might not be entirely conceivable. Let’s see:
VDS
Brown/Rio/Vidic/Evra
Hargo/Carrick/Tevez/Ronaldo
Rooney
Berbatov
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@ WhiteY that side is good but a little attack minded, you can’t play Berbatov(if we get him that is not a done deal yet I will addd) Tevez, Rooney and Ronaldo, we would get killed on the counter. Berbatov is not in the side for his work ethic, more for his height, and touch you can’t compare Tevz, Rooney to Berbatov, they are completly different players.
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Im pissed about Sir Alex playing a weak team everytime he comes to South Africa. For Once could he just play a first team and thrash pirates or chiefs…Really missing some Portuguese flair.
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@Stephen: Last thing I am trying to do is compare Tevez and Rooney to Berbatov. I have highlighted their combined ball winning effects and grit to the “apparent” laziness of incoming Berbatov. My point is, if Fergie intends to play Rooney in the hole behind the main striker and at the same time incorporate Berbatov to be that striker, then it remains to be seen how we can get the best of both worlds(a very potent attck, yet not immune to defencive duties and grit). Do you see my point? If Rooney were to be played in aforementioned position, are we trusting Berbatov or who ever is incoming for that matter to show enough strength and grit in assuming temporary defensive duties, thus sharing that workload that Rooney quite so naturally likes to take on himself? I am saying that reasons for our outstanding successes last season are connected to Tevez’s and Rooney’s work ethic and energy while at the same time putting in their share of goals. We all know Fergie wants Rooney playing of an experienced striker in the season upcoming, so aside from my excitement at the possibility of Berbatov joining us, I hope our attack will still be retain its work ethic in tracking back when needed.
True, the team I put up will run into difficulties when countered, that’s why I mentioned that the team might not be reasonable against bigger opposition. But lets say we play a Chelsea, a game which would really help our cause overall if we could nick in some goals, the gaffer could play around that formation I think. Tevez can be employed in a three man midfield occasionally bursting forward. I know he played center midfield roles for Boca back in the day.
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Fergie has not admitted anything
.
He has repeated a stance which he has had for a while – rooney is a forward and is great both up top or behind a striker. He did not say rooney is best when played off another forward and he did not say anything about making mistakes in the past.
‘We have to define wayne’s role better’ – he’s said this before too, that he needs to decide whether rooney will play up top or in behind, but there is still no indication that he believes rooney is stronger as a second striker or that he played him out of position last season.
Rooney himself has not indicated that his best position is in the hole. The main striker role was new for him last season but he said he enjoyed it more than he thought he would and that he himself did not really know what his best position is.
I don’t really care which position he ends up playing, as i’m satisfied he will be a key player for us in either position. Play him up top with tevez behind. Great. Play him off berbatov. Great. As a main striker, he provides a good long option trying to get in behind a defense. He also puts himself about and gives centre halves a hard time. As a second striker, he is excellent with his passing and working out situations and options. He is good at bringing others into the game and providing a killer pass. I feel he would be good playing off a forward who’s always looking to beat the offside trap, someone with genuine pace and good movement like torres or villa. Berbatov is a class act but he plays with his back to goal. A striker who plays on the shoulder would be more complimentary to rooney’s abilities when he’s played in the hole.
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@Stephen: Certainly the 4 could play together against weaker sides without fear of getting killed on the counter; and WhiteY is also correct that the 4 could be played even against heavyweights when scoring is an absolute priority (e.g., the second leg of a CL tie when we’re behind on goal difference). Moreover, playing more of a 4-2-3-1 with Hargreaves and Carrick as DMs protecting the back 4 would also limit any susceptibility to the counter IMHO.
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@WhiteY: Would you feel better if I tweaked the formation thus?
VDS
Brown/Rio/Vidic/Evra
Hargreaves Carrick
Ronaldo Rooney Tevez
Berbatov
What I want to get across in a nutshell is that, sometimes it will simply be irrational leaving Tevez on the bench, because the said improvement in Rooney’s play may never be achieved with Berbatov as the top man.
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@Stephen: Oops, comment #13 was meant for you.@Eric the Red: You see my point, regardless of Fergie’s new romance with Rooney which we have to respect; unfortunately, playing the boy out of position was highly successful. Just think of our champion’s league games, pointer of course is the Barca game at Camp Nou.
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@Stephen: Rooney and tevez could quite comfortably play in midfield and they would work their arses off. Defensively, they would be willing to help out and they have great energy levels so they could all play in the one team and we would not suffer defensively.
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@ Whitey/Eric the Red, I think it would be great to watch, but feel that it leaves us too exposed, Carrick is not the best tackler, great on the the ball a la Pirlo, but for me we would need and extra midfielder in there, an Anderson or Scholes.
VDS
Brown/Nev Rio Vids Evra
Hargo/Scholes/Anderson or Carrick
Ronaldo/Tevez Rooney
Berbatov
i think that would be more sensible or 4-4–1-1 with Rooney or Tevez off Berbatov.
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@WhiteY: A question: in your comment #14, are you disagreeing with anything I’ve said. I ask only because in my #6 and #12 I say pretty much the same as you including the formation you propose in #13. So, just curious/puzzled?
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@ Tevez, why would we play a centre forward in midfield when we have ample cover in that position already?
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The only way that formation i.e Berbatov on top , Tev, Roo , Ron behind, will work is if Utd get a attacking RB. Neville is past it and Brown is great at defense but not so hot going forward. Pity Alves was sold.
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@Just1n: So you really think he’s past it huh? I know you saw him live against Chiefs, but was he that bad? Also are you sure you can dismiss his value based on that evidence. Just curious is all, because I haven’t been able to watch one pre-season match in its entirety so far, and would like to know what the people who watched him live think of him.
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@Just1n: Give him a break, he has been out for 18 months give him a chance re gain fitness!!
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Red ranter: Yeah he looked rusty but that’s to be expected. I have no doubt that Gary will be able to contribute this season but he is 33 and the legs are not getting any younger, therefore he’s ability to bomb forward to support Ronnie (or whoever will be playing on the right next season) is not as great as it was say 2 years ago.
When I say he is past it I don’t advocate dumping him, I just cannot see him playing week in and week out in a 4-2-3-1 formation that requires hard running full backs to support a front 4 of Berba, Tev, Roo, and Ronnie. That was my original point. If we are going to play these players regularly then Neville won’t work in that formation as he does not have the engine anymore imo.
Stephen: Don’t worry mate, i will defo give Neville a break. He is a legend, but unfortunately he won’t be involved in all the games and i think it’s hell of unfair on Wes , who has done fantastic in that position.
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@Stephen: We wouldn’t, i was just emphasising that rooney and tevez would not shirk their defensive responsibilities and thus we would not be exploited defensively.
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I read the Ferguson article regarding Rooney yesterday and I was ecstatic as well as encouraged. However, let us not forget the reasons for Ferguson playing him out of position. It was due to injuries or just plain negative tactics to prevent a team like Barcelona from attacking. Adding Berbatov will add the depth that’s needed up front but I still feel Fergie will be tempted at times to move Rooney wide as he does his job and doesn’t complain. I especially see that happening until Ronaldo returns. Nani will also miss the first two games of the season so Fergie may find a need to move him wide right from the start.
Nevertheless, I am confident that Rooney will play a more central and comfortable strikers or CF/SS role this season and thus, I picked him on my fantasy team. I’m expecting at least 10 more goals from him in all competitions. I think he will work very well with Berbatov. If in fact we end up signing the Bulgarian Cantona.
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Brown is very limited. It’s fair that he is replaced by a far better player.
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I agree 4-2-3-1 is the way to get the best out of Rooney. But for that we need Berbatov up top and its not looking likely. It would be like Portugal’s system except unlike them we’d have a decent striker. Rooney could play Deco’s role. Of course the problem is we’d need some serious bite in central midfield so our preferred partnership of Scholes and Carrick would not cut it.
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@Grognard: Rooney played the central striker role last season, excluding a few games like the barcelona tie.
We may start the season with the crappy 4-3-3/4-5-1 formation to deal with injuries with rooney probably asked to play out wide, yes. Another option would be to play hargreaves right midfield for the first few games.
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@ Tevez do not agree in your views about Wes mate, I have been a harsh critic of him but he gives us evrything, he cares about the club and that is more important to me than a better Johnny foreigner who is only here for the money.
Regarding Rooney are you saying that in the words of Harry Rednapp that he could ” do a job for us there” if needed? if so I agree.
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I agree with the general consensus on Rooney’s future upcoming role increasing and him becoming “the force he always had the potential to be”. Although having him play deeper would take away much of the defensive role he has taken recently. His quality of play has undoubtedly increased over the last 12 months as he was forced to play a game he was not initially suited for. Now he will have the opportunity to utilize exactly those skills which were recently honed. I doubt anyone in the league can really be ready to see the full potential of a star who up till now has been sitting in the shadows of Ronaldo. It will be very exciting to see if Rooney can take advantage of this opportunity.
Some have mentioned Berba joining and playing, but I don’t think it necessary, Rooney down the mid tucked right behind tevez, with Anderson and Nani on wings, we have an excellent defensive and mid-field core, what we need is confident strikers.
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@Stephen: If the foreigner is a better player then i would prefer the foreigner. Anyway, we have neville so it wasn’t a foreigner that i was talking about.
I think rooney could definitely fill in if required. I would rather see him play centre mid than in a wide midfield position. However, my point was that you said a team with berbatov, tevez, rooney and ronaldo would leave us open defensively and my point was that if rooney or tevez were asked to play deeper then i don’t think it would be detrimental to united defensively, as both are willing to pull their weight.
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What Ferguson says is that we should be careful not to use Rooney as a utility man, just because he does the job without complaining. Rooney is the best overall talent in the squad, and therefore he’s used in many different positions. I think, SAF knows that Rooney is reaching an age, where, if we should get everything out of his talent in his best posision, he needs to play there more. The good thing for younger players about playing in different positions (if they have the ability and will) is that they learn so much more about the game.
But now is the time to send all that knowledge into the front line in Rooney’s best position, which is just behind Berbatov
Believe me that Rooney is the real deal, and even though he may loose his temper on occasion, I don’t think it’s anything to worry about. I’d much rather have him look frustrated than not.
And all the talk about him maturing… well he’s still only 22 (23 in October), so of course he’s got a lot to learn, which is only a positive thing. Imagine him in 3-4 years, when he’s learned even more. He’s probably the smartest player in the squad, and with his knowledge of the game, he’ll become lethal (even more) if he’s played in his best position from this season. SAF has always known this, but unfortunately he’s had no consistant player for Rooney to play behind because of Saha’s injuries. With Berbatov he’ll get that, and we’ll see him make his clever runs around the bulgarian.
I for one cannot wait to see him in that role.
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And I forgot: If Rooney for once has an injury free season, there’s no limit to the impact he can have. Having him and Ronaldo in the same team is truly a blessing, at least in terms of football, because they are simply a level better than the rest.
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@ Tevez I tkink we agree to disagree with regards to Wes, all I am saying is that the best team wins things not the best players, personally I love Wes and think he was superb last season.
I know what you are saying but I think there is no need to, Fergie will never play that system. I believe it would leave us open as they are good at tracking back, but are not midfielders, who we have a decent creative bunch who don’t just sit they set up play as well.
You need more than 2 midfielders in football today as sides hold onto the ball too much, and we would need to sit deeper and hit on the counter, that is how we play exciting football but also sensible football.
It is also a bit England to try and get all your best players in your starting 11 and we know how bad that has worked out!
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rooney for me is more than over rated.he is a good player but nothing more.if you all trust sir alex.can he take all these years to find a good position for a world class star?he knows it,we know it.
it is not bad tactics that he misses all those one on ones,that he chips when he has to shoot,that he tries so hartd in vain.classy players did not use alot of energy and less of brain.
look at ronaldo.he does everything minus losing his head.figo,zidane,ronaldo,messi,rvn,all did their work minus that heart on sleave bullshit.
i know every player is judjed on his own but we can agree that next season will close and we shall stil be debating rooneys best position.
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@ donibrasco The lad is 22 and has rarely played behind a target man, so give the lad a break. He has played out wide a lot which is not is position, he is a classic number 10 and should be played as one, then we can really judge him, he still got 18 goals last season which is not bad considering he misses a lot of chances!!
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@Tomas: Rooney is very intelligent, but i still think scholes is the most intelligent player in the squad. In the premiership, actually. The closest to him is either rooney or fabregas.
@Rafski United: I don’t see rooney playing in behind tevez as tevez seems to struggle in this role. He is fairly ineffective when asked to play a main striker role. I don’t know why. His strength on the ball should have proved effective when playing on the last line and taking the ball into his feet. His hold up play should be fantastic but the role just doesn’t suit him.
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@Stephen: Yes i agree. I don’t think fergie will play that formation either. I don’t think defending would be a problem because of rooney and tevez’s work ethic, but i would still not play the formation because it means playing these players out of position when there are other players who are suited to these roles.
Mind you, in my opinion rooney could easily play centre midfield and not look out of place. In doing so, you would take away that little bit extra he gives up front though, which is why i would not encourage it.
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@tevez: Rooney’s central striker role was very liberal indeed. In fact Tevez played that role far more than Rooney as Wayne spent a lot of the season looking for weeds on the sidelines. And even when he played the lone striker role, we all know he is not at his best there. He needs a partner up front who he can play off of and who will spend a lot more time in the middle and in the box. And I agree with you about Hargreaves possibly playing on the right side or even Park. Hope Hargo’s knee is alright by then.
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@tevez I agree we would miss his aggression through the middle. Mind you how many cards do you think he would pick up in the centre of midfield, he probably be suspended for half the season!!
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@Rafski United: Rooney down the midle tucked just behind Tevez doesn’t work against the many teams that pack their defense with 10 men behind the ball. Tevez is not an out and out striker. He’s more like Rooney. For Rooney to once again flourish, he needs and authentic striker who lives in and around the box and can hold the ball up when needed. Berbatov will be that man. He’s also a better passer with greater vision than Tevez so besides scoring his share of goals, he will help create more chances for Rooney and others.
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@tevez: Yeah that might be right, I don’t know. All I know is that they are both very intelligent players.
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@Stephen: Much has been made about Rooney’s temperament of late but he actually did a fairly good job of reigning himself in last year. Still loads of improvement is needed but like Pele said a few months back, if he would stop tracking back so much and trying to win every ball and stopped running so hard, his dander would not get so fired up once he is fouled. He needs to expend less energy in areas where he is not needed and this alone will calm him down. That extra effort turns him into an adrenaline junkie and he has a hard time calming himself down. This leads to temper and confrontation. I’m surprised Fergie has not drilled this in him over the years. Even more so, he has him playing roles that bring the bad out in him more. Some times less is best.
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@donibrasco: That’s pure bs.
SAF hasn’t struggled to find his best position… he’s played him out of position on purpose in lack of other options or because it was needed (especially in Europe) due to tactical reasons. He may miss some sitters, but if he played in his best position, he’d get more used to them and probably increase his effectiveness.
And saying that Rooney uses less of his brain than those other players is utter nonsense. He’s our best assist player,which takes brain, and he creates a lot of space for others to run into, which also takes a lot of football intelligense. It’s about reading the movement of the defense and the runs of the attacking players. Rooney is second to none in that.
I suggest, you look at his stats from his time at our club. You’ll see the impact he has, it’s quite amazing.
In fact, I’ll claim that players like Rooney are harder to loose than players like Messi or Ronaldo, because you’ll never win anything with 11 Ronaldos, but you’ll certainly have a chance with 11 Rooneys, because they’d all play with their heart on sleaves.
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@ Grog, I completly agree with you mate, I suppose fergie has now does not want to loose that agressive side to his game, because he has that even when he is not playing well he can be affective, thats why I rate him so high.
He does need to work on his game, but he is young and I also agree he needs to wait for the ball to come to him rather than go looking for it so often. With he and Berbatov in tandem next season should be very exciting!
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@Grognard: I’m fairly certian that SAF has tried to teach Rooney anger management, but with some players, the aggression just can’t be kept down, until they mature naturally. And Rooney certainly fits that bill. He’s his own man on the pitch, and he’d so into the games that he forgets everything he’s been told.
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I don’t think many people realize just how fantastic the Tevez and Rooney partnership can be! Both players are 95 minute runners, from the start had a natural dual understanding of the type of game they want to play. They showed this a few times in the season when Rooney would shift a bit more in the middle. I agree that till now Rooney behind Tevez has not worked perfectly, but with a few games under the belt, more opportunities to play side by side, things can work out better.
On the Berba move, I am not against this possible deal, but I find utilizing the players we have more important than signing a new player. Although the general feeling at OT would be fantastic when tying up a deal with a player who has publicly stated his intent and yearning for club, the cost would be a bit high for his age. I think he is talented, but is he Man Utd material?
What is up with Tevez Jr.?
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Just found the site. I was looking for something with depth and humour and I think at last I found it. Great read and I look forward to all the next rants.
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@Tomas: Beautifully said Tomas!
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Grog, this one’s for you!
I just hope he stays fit just to be able to hear more of this!
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