Jul 15
Ferguson’s comments on transfers, and he’s not stupid
This post was long overdue, but for some reason we never got around to posting this.
It has become a matter of common knowledge by now that Ferguson has made comments that our business is done for the summer.
“It’s the end of our business, so forget all these stories about who we’re supposed to be getting.”
That’s what he said to sum up his thoughts on our business in the current transfer window. The crux of what he said lay here:
“Everywhere in England and in Europe the players’ values have shot sky high. I don’t think any of the (big money) transfers that you see happening are realistic but for some reason the market seems to have caught fire this summer. It is a very unusual summer and difficult to get value because of that. It’s always been the case that Manchester United have to pay a bit extra. But this summer we were not prepared to do that because we have got some very good young players. There didn’t need to be a kneejerk reaction to losing Cristiano Ronaldo. We did very well to keep him for six years. He wanted to go, and we allowed him to do that. We shouldn’t panic because one or two players are leaving. I think we have a very, very good squad with good young players in all positions.”
Firstly there are two things regarding United’s business that have impressed me this summer:
1. We’ve looked to do business with clubs without dragging our feet or making too much fuss. We told Madrid to take it or leave it, or something to that effect. [Personally, I suspect it is the result of groundwork last year which forced Madrid's hand. But it's obvious there has been thought put to Ronaldo's departure, based on that premise.] We were firm in our dealings regarding Benzema, and considering he went public with his preference for Madrid over United, there is really no point in crying over the Benzema transfer.
We monitored Valencia throughout last season, presumably, as a replacement for Ronaldo. Whether he stacks up to Ronaldo or not, is open to debate. The main point is that United were looking for a winger with the knowledge that Ronaldo will be leaving. According to Wigan owner Dave Whelan, Ferguson had seen Valencia play ‘practically every match’ last season. If a player can force Ferguson to monitor him so feverishly then, I have to give the player the benefit of doubt. It’s impossible to anyway find a direct replacement for Ronaldo; no one, bar Messi, comes close to him.
2. The second thing that impressed me about United’s transfer activity is that Ferguson seemed determined to get a striker and a couple of attackers that he rated at the least, well before pre-season got underway. Even while we were locked in negotiations with Benzema he had a plan B in the form of Michael Owen. Now, I must say I was underwhelmed at his choice of a fall-back option, and I made those emotions known not too long ago. I would have preferred someone like Huntelaar but, going by the details of the deal with Owen, we know we are paying for what we’d get from him. The question of how big a gamble the Owen deal represents, will be apparent when the season gets underway, or based on his pre-season at the club. But that’s besides the point I’ve been making here. His three signings were made before the pre-season, and it’s quite possible Ferguson rates team chemistry the key towards rebuilding the side.
The first point made, regarding not dragging our feet over contract negotiations, segues into another interesting example. One of Douglas Costa. When I came across this article by a Brazilian football broadcaster/pundit, questioning if United are being conned over Douglas Costa, (link via Unitedrant) I felt there may be some truth over Ferguson’s comments about inflated prices instead of the obvious “he’s trying to bluff the market into submission” reaction.
Of course, Ferguson could go ahead and splurge. But on whom? There is Aguero, but with Berbatov and Rooney, that’s asking for a tactical nightmare trying to fit first teamers at once. Playing Aguero wide forces us to waste him on the flanks whilst playing Rooney out wide to accommodate Aguero is unacceptable in a season where most people expect him to be played in a central role; Rooney himself made numerous references on that count. The only player I could think of is Huntelaar. But my contention is our problem area is in central midfield, and not in attack.
But let us return to the point of immense controversy. Ferguson’s comments, that our business is complete, has been met with a lot of backlash, some measured, some angry, some hysterical. There are also those in the in-Fergie-we-trust camp. It has divided opinion widely, but none of the backlash even compares to Ferguson’s sale of van Nistelrooy in the summer of 2006. Even then, Ferguson tested waters briefly, as the Carling Cup win in the 05/06 would testify, with great success.
Ferguson tactically altered United last season, which forced Ronaldo into a more orthodox role of a winger. The system was to accommodate Berbatov, and possibly, ensure a new winger could slot into that position more easily than getting a wide attacker to play, what we shall call, “the Ronaldos role.” Hence Valencia. The only thing that system lacked was for a midfielder who could dominate, move forward into the box and contribute to the goal tally (in the role of the Scholes of old, and Frank Lampard). Berbatov needs more players to go forward to support him, and it is quite possibly the main question mark over the current squad.
I am not particularly big on statistics, but I find it necessary to provide some data of our top four goal scorers in the 2005/06 season, versus the 06/07. I will also list the top four goal scorers of last season for some perspective. (stats are for all competitions)
In 05/06 goals scored:
Ruud van Nistelrooy: 24
Wayne Rooney: 19
Louis Saha: 15
Cristiano Ronaldo: 12
In 06/07 goals scored:
Cristiano Ronaldo: 23
Wayne Rooney: 23
Louis Saha: 13
Ole Gunnar Solskjaer: 10
In 08/09 goals scored:
Cristiano Ronaldo: 25
Wayne Rooney: 17 20
Carlos Tevez: 15
Dimitar Berbatov: 14
Stats source: Soccernet
The comparison between 05/06 and 06/07 is fairly instructive in that one player notably, in Cristiano Ronaldo, stepped up significantly to score 23 goals. Berbatov who’s averaged about 22 goals for Spurs, could conceivably step up in his second season at United while Rooney, injury notwithstanding, could even perhaps step up if the side is built around him. Both those projections are not a major leap of faith if one thinks about it. Back in 2006/07 we had an ‘old codger’ in Solskjaer step up to the plate to share the goal scoring burden, this season that onus falls on Michael Owen. Again, even assuming he’s injury prone, it’s not entirely a major leap to expect 10 goals from Owen. The rest would have to be made up by Valencia et al. This system can fail however on one count, and that is what I’ve already mentioned — we need a central midfielder capable of chipping in with goals. Despite this we still have a first XI good enough to mix it with the best.
We may not win the title this time. But with this side we cannot conceivably finish out of the top four, as a lot of the naysayers would have it. In all these years since the Premier League’s inception we haven’t done it. Not even when we had a train-wreck of a midfield in 05/06, manned by John O’Shea and Giggs. I see no chance of that happening this time either.
Liverpool are likely to lose Alonso to Madrid. Barring a right back, they haven’t addressed their problem areas yet. Speculation abounds over their lynch pin, Mascherano. Chelsea have made a top signing in Zhirkov and will be a threat for sure next season. But Terry’s possible departure for Man City could well put a spanner in their works, not to mention, the question marks over Ancelotti’s abilities in a league foreign to him. Arsenal are in the lookout for their elusive defensive midfielder, and although their first XI could challenge anyone, their depth remains questionable.
Of course, we speculate, we doubt and, as concerned fans, it’s a natural reaction following the departure of the greatest star of our generation. But once again, the constant that remains and matters, and is arguably the envy of all clubs, is Ferguson. He may have mellowed a bit, but he hasn’t lost the ability to rebuild and mould sides. There hasn’t been an instance where he hasn’t bounced back. And the evidence of time, makes it a very, very important factor to consider in our speculation. Despite his successes in Europe, he may have never really made it his own. But he sure knows how to win the league. He may never be known as a tactical genius; I never considered him one, and to this day I question a lot of his tactical decisions, but, I never doubt his ability to coax and cajole the best out of the men at his disposal; I haven’t seen much, in all these years, to make me think otherwise.
The key to some of Ferguson’s success is his ability to not be swayed by emotion that we fans get caught up in. It divorces him from the emotions that could bring many men down. He has known one way to satisfy us fans, and that is by doing things his way, even things that haven’t been always popular. His pointed remark in the conference was a case in point, “I can only placate fans one way and that’s by not being stupid.”
We won the league last season, but the hurt and humiliation at Barcelona’s hands resonates more. SAF has often used failure to fire him up. Perhaps we may not challenge for the title. Perhaps we will only have a Carling Cup to show for all this bluster. Maybe we will graft our way after all. But the day I would really start worrying about United would be the day Ferguson departs. I will have the odd concern; perhaps criticising him for a bird-brained substitution. But worry is reserved for far greater potential pitfalls than anything I could foresee this summer.
Related items from Red Rants:
- Globally Red
- Commenting Policy
- What Did We Learn from Deadline Day Transfers
- United Continue In Rich Vein, But Ferguson’s Rallying Call is Misplaced
- Gill on City and Ronaldo
Tags: Opinions/Columns
July 15th, 2009 at 7:52
Before i read this, its worth noting that rooney in fact got 20 goals in all competitions.
July 15th, 2009 at 8:10
@Dan:
You’re right and Ronaldo scored 26 but these extra goals (I think?) were in the WCC which we won’t be competing in this year.
July 15th, 2009 at 8:15
An excellent post, agree with every part except of course the Huntelaar one, he’s not good enough for United.
July 15th, 2009 at 8:15
And you should worry about the day Fergie retires because according to him, it’s not that far off. All the more reason why his present conservative approach perplexes me. He’s putting his faith on a lot of garlic sausage when what we need is Filet Mignon.
July 15th, 2009 at 8:16
@Zae: Like you would know right?
July 15th, 2009 at 8:18
nicely put there.
In Fergie We Trust.
July 15th, 2009 at 8:23
I still remain to be convinced about Owen.It still smacks of desperation and I wish I knew what really went on regarding the Tevez saga.
July 15th, 2009 at 8:23
@Grognard: Gentle on a new commenter. Don’t scare them away yet.
They knoweth not what they talketh about!
July 15th, 2009 at 8:28
@Grognard: Will worry when it happens. Even if we have an outstanding squad I will worry the day he leaves.
July 15th, 2009 at 8:39
I cant help thinking about the Barcelona game, when both Ferguson and Phelan were absolutely tactically clueless.
July 15th, 2009 at 8:51
It’s in the nature of fans to do and say stupid things – that’s why they’re called fans – managers who say and do stupid things are called pundits.
July 15th, 2009 at 9:08
Perhaps SAF, who has stated that he will retire not too long from now, is putting his faith in the new batch of youngsters to build them up before he leaves. So by the time he retires, United will still be in good stead. Who knows what his plans are
July 15th, 2009 at 9:15
last two seasons Ronaldo didn’t play as a winger he played as a second striker supporting from the flanks thats why he was always near the opposition box and why he didn’t track back, we had one winger throughout the whole season in our starting eleven and that is JS Park and because he is more of defensive than attacking we were cautious and boring, the only player who could have solved the problem is NANI, but he lost the ball frequently whenever he played or tried to shoot. i hope next season he’ll get better, even though he will start he’ll have to fight for a starting position. Owen will play more than we expect him to, however he will be treated cautiously, (one game a week just like giggs and scholes) and Rooney position will depend on Owen starting..
——–GK
RB CB CB LB
—DMF DMF
W ———-(valencia)
—-SS SS —-(berba and rooney) / (berba and nani)
——FW ——-(owen) / (rooney)
these are my expectations,, what do think guys?
July 15th, 2009 at 9:33
“We won the league last season, but the hurt and humiliation at Barcelona’s hands resonates more.”
Human nature. If we hadn’t won anything for twenty years they’d still be picking most of us off the ceiling. Very difficult to see perspective when you’re so successful, but again, just another reason why Fergie is so great.
July 15th, 2009 at 9:38
@The Kid: Why what would have you done?, Fergie made tactical changes at halftime bringing on a striker for a midfield player which was the right thing to do, then we threw on another striker which again was the right thing to do, we lost the final becuase the players played poorly simple.
July 15th, 2009 at 10:11
@Stephen: carrick with his broken toe and anderson with his broken ability to play football…. that and evra fucking up more times than i care to remember… and ronaldo being a selfish twat.
can you tell im still not over that defeat?
July 15th, 2009 at 10:12
RR well put and AMEN to that… now its over to the battle of RR and the Optimists against Grog and the legion of doom
July 15th, 2009 at 10:14
@Grognard: theres a reason stuttgart are chasing him and not us…
July 15th, 2009 at 10:14
@Will: Don’t forget a half fit Ferdinand who had the mobility of an elephant.
July 15th, 2009 at 10:16
@Chino: i swear after the last game of the premierleague season Fergie said he could carry on for another 5 years… his departure doesn’t seem totally imminent… which is more than i can say for Alonso.
July 15th, 2009 at 10:17
@Stephen: damn straight. i still say a fully fit Evans would have done a better job that night.
July 15th, 2009 at 10:18
Sorry rr but for me SAF is the gretest manager of all time, he is second to nobody and the the stats prove that. He is a tactical genius and he does get emotional, but thats just what i think makes him great. I think United fans have every right to be optimistic for the coming season, soon people will see losing Ronaldo will just make us stronger one way or the other. I dont know why though there is always a grim feeling on this website its not even realistic at times, its just plain and simple depressing
July 15th, 2009 at 10:19
@Julio: ….its called grognard
July 15th, 2009 at 10:22
yeh true lol gorgnard is it pretty miserable isnt he?? The legion of doom WTF!!!!
July 15th, 2009 at 10:24
Downing is going to Villa…….does this mean Ashley Young will be sold?
July 15th, 2009 at 10:26
@Will: You hit the nail on the head mate, a fully fit Evans would have got somewhat closer to Messi for the second goal.
July 15th, 2009 at 10:29
@Cyclops-Red: We are not buying anyone else this summer, so if he is not to us.
July 15th, 2009 at 10:31
@Cyclops-Red: perhaps not. wasn’t the biggest criticism of Villa last season the fact they had no squad depth, which meant young players like Abonglahor and Young had to play week-in week-out. if they bring in another good english winger it provides cover and keeps both young and downing fresh. I don’t think we’ll move for Young, why would we have bought Valencia and Obertan.. we would surely have to get rid of a winger first.
July 15th, 2009 at 10:33
@Will: We have Tosic, Park, Nani, Obertan, Valencia and Rooney has been er known to frequent the left flank every now and again, and Fergie has stated no more signings.
July 15th, 2009 at 10:33
@ stephen: man city are willing for beckham…
July 15th, 2009 at 10:33
@Stephen:
Fergie doe have a fetish for wingers, don’t forget
Seriously, I wonder if he may go to Arsenal or Liverpool.
July 15th, 2009 at 10:34
£25 million for Adebayor! Sparky has more money than sense. At least we’re not the ones being over-charged for players this year. Wenger must be loving it. £18 million profit, that must be a new arsenal record.
July 15th, 2009 at 10:35
@Will:
Yeah, you’re probably right.
July 15th, 2009 at 10:35
@Cyclops-Red: or chelsea.
July 15th, 2009 at 10:37
@ grognard : that stupid zidane has told that ribery is better than ronaldo…..is he mad…
does is he really know that ronaldo is even far superior than him also…
July 15th, 2009 at 10:38
@owen: You are probably right mate, and he has stated he would consider an English team, sounds very sensible.
July 15th, 2009 at 10:39
@Will: They have Malouda, Cole and Zhirkov can’t see that happening.
July 15th, 2009 at 10:41
man city with de zong,ireland and barry in the mid field
robinho,tevez,cruz,adebayor,wrightphillipsin attack…
they r going to be the top goal scoring team..( hope they will concede a lot more)
July 15th, 2009 at 10:41
@owen: surely its just part of his job as ‘real madrid chief propaganda and pursuasion minister’ you need a fecking huge ego to play for madrid…. ZZ is just building scarfaces up to Real level.
July 15th, 2009 at 10:43
@ will : zidane is so much depressed bcoz due to the lad named ronaldo,people have forgotten him only after 3-4 yrs of retirement
July 15th, 2009 at 10:45
@redranter ..
I am a hard core fergie fan .. Mind u he is the greatest manager the sports might ever see .Hopefully he never retires !!!!
More than next season we have a major decision to take ,
Are we trying to replace Ronaldo by bringing in youngsters or
Are we building a team which might just need a tactical push when he retires .
If it is the former then we have no worries becos we will improve our performance as a team and win !
However if its the latter then we have something to worry about !
We all believe in talents like Ljajic Wellbeck Macheda Petrucci Fabio Rafael etc. to do very well !
We believe in them mainly becos of SAF ! There is no other manager like Fergie or Wenger who can bring out the talents in players , i mean world class talents like them !
We are potentially looking at a maximum of 2 yr time window , where we expect likes of Foster, Wellbeck, Rafael, Macheda, Pettruci etc.
(if fergie does retire after 2 seasons). Mind u we are trying to replace 4 world class legends of Manchester United in the next 2 seasons. The likes of VDS, Scholes, Giggs & Neville.
Replacing Keane, Beckham, Nistelrooy etc. was something only fergie can do. So fergie also has the added pressure of not only replacing Ronaldo or delivering results but also building the team for future.
The best example is AC Milan , they have so many world class title winning legends above 33+ , they have no idea where to start off . They still are not even close to top 6 epl side.
Many worry about life without Ronaldo or Tevez .. Nah they are just players whom SAF raised.
The worrying part for me is life without SAF !
Hopefully that day never comes !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
July 15th, 2009 at 10:47
@owen: how could anyone forget him… especially after the way he bowed out.
I really sick of Tevez now… You’ve got your stupid amount of money. you’ve got your sky blue bench to sit on. now please shut the fuck up. if you concentrated more on scoring goals then you might have less time to bitch about your former clubs… another sign of him being highly unprofessional.
July 15th, 2009 at 10:51
@Will: I agree and the same about Ronaldo, we can’t keep harping back to two players who simply did not want to play for us.
If we start slow next season which we genuinely do, people will harp back to selling these two or letting one go, you cannot keep a player like Ronaldo any longer at the club becuase he would be a bad influence and with the Elephant man we never had control over him, and for good riddance.
July 15th, 2009 at 10:54
Also the best thing about yesterdays over exitement at the Wastelands was watching it on Sky Sports and seeing that greedy fucker Joorabchin nearly getting hit in the face with a TV camera
July 15th, 2009 at 11:30
@Rick: Great post.Many fans headed by the one i will not name have predicted doom already on the basis of losing Ronaldo and Tevez. I hope they know that individuals dont win you the league but the squad does.I know it is hard to replace Ronaldo even with two Messis but no one or two players can be bigger than the club.
The Barcelona final should have taught us a lesson that team work and good preparation rather than superstars win games.Straight from being humiliated by chelsea to go through by poor officiation,we had cruised past Arsenal and looked set to defend the title.On paper,man for man we were superior.The outcome?
I dont know whether fans remember the last time we bought a superstar.We have always made our own stars.If you buy a striker from spain for high money he can either be a Torres or a Morrientes,from holland,either a RVN or a Kezman,from France,either a thierry or a cisse,Italy,he could be a zola or Chevchenko so really.midfielders could turn out to be Verons and Klebersons its a two sided coin.my point is we should have faith in the manager and scouts whose 24/7 job is football.Hell,Wenger did not sign young Ronaldo because he did not think he scored goals,and look what he became.
My last point is for fans not to be hypocrites.You are mad that Rossi left,Pique too,fergie does not give them a chance,but when it presents itself,there is near revolt why he is not signing Ribery,Aguero,Benzema,and the real reject Huntelar who in his late twenties has not done anything significant in his career apart from his Ajax record which kezman betters.
looking forward to saturday
July 15th, 2009 at 11:43
@donibrasco: hell id bite your hand off for 2 messi’s for one ronaldo. but good point about football being a squad game now rather than having one set of 11… as villa proved last season.
July 15th, 2009 at 11:48
Well said donibrasco, Agreed this I think will be one of the most interesting seasons…Man City have adebayor now?lol wow…and watching Real will be fun too
July 15th, 2009 at 11:50
What immediately strikes me from those stats is one thing. In each season RR mentioned four players broke double figures. Next season we only have three players capable of doing that: Berbatov, Rooney and Owen (dependent on fitness).
Also our top three strikers usually manage 60 goals between them. I am not so sure Berbatov, Rooney and Owen will manage that.
Even if they did there is still the question of who will be our fourth goalscorer and will he break double figures?
The difference is that we no longer have a goalscoring midfielder. In the last five years that player has been Ronaldo. A rarity: a winger who scores goals. Before Ronaldo, Scholes would chip in with ten to fifteeen goals a season and Giggs would score a good number as well.
Look at our midfield today: Nani, Carrick, Fletcher/Anderson, Valencia
None of those players would come close to double figures. Nani has the best chance but only if he recaptures the form he displayed 2007/8.
And that is the real problem. Fergie tried to replace Ronaldo who has averaged 25 goals a season with Valencia….a player who has scored like three goals a season.
Fergie’s figures do not add up without the signing of a goalscoring midfielder who can chip in 10-15 goals a season.
July 15th, 2009 at 12:01
@donibrasco: Great post.
July 15th, 2009 at 12:08
Nice article, and I agree completely. I think this is a rebuilding year and that Fergie will deliver one final great team before retiring.
I think it’s good that we’re being prudent with the money from the Ronaldo transfer. Nani, Anderson and Berbatov were all brought in for considerable fees. I have a feeling this will be a make or break season for the three of them (and probably Foster too). It would be insane to just toss out some £60 million worth of investment without giving them a chance to prove themselves while playing games week in week out. We don’t have a rich sugar daddy enabling us to play FM in real life.
In recent years, we’ve also been bringing in talented youngsters from all over the place. I don’t see Fergie undoing all this work for instant glory. The likes of Wellbeck and Macheda still need time to develop, but they need minutes playing with the senior team to take that next step. If they don’t get opportunities, we could very well see a repeat of the Rossi and Pique situations.
In the long term, this is for the best in my opinion. There are obvious risks to this approach, we may “struggle” (relative to the succes we’ve grown accustomed to) this season but, if necessary, we’ll be able to spend much more wisely next summer after seeing this post-Ronaldo team get a proper run-out. I feel we’re in a very similar situation to the year when Ince, Kanchelskis and Hughes left. Or the year when we let RVN go and only brought in Carrick. No one, including many fans, gave us a chance then either. I’m not saying this year will automatically be a repeat of those years, but this team definitely deserves a shot at it. At the very least, Fergie has proven himself more than enough over the years to be allowed to take that chance.
July 15th, 2009 at 12:13
@colver: I think if Nani is first choice for the season, he could get 12 goals. Will he be having a go from free kicks? We all know he can shoot from distance with power and accuracy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQE0rwcqM1I&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2tiuWWOoyg&feature=related
If he gets the chance he should get, he is the one midfielder who undeniably has the talent to score 10+ a season.
July 15th, 2009 at 12:49
did anyone read David Gill’s interview on manutd.com ? he said he was sure there would be “player activity” during his time in asia. Fergie smokescreen?
July 15th, 2009 at 13:07
@United legend:
He said “I’m sure there will be some player activity” while the team is in Asia. I think this is ambiguous because it could mean we may sell players not necessarily buy.
July 15th, 2009 at 13:10
Ferguson quotes:
“We still got a month left – no we got two months left before the deadline and everything is possible.” (Link)
If people actually bothered to listen to what the guy had to say instead of reading the ever so trustworthy media outlets, they would have called Ferguson’s bluff.
July 15th, 2009 at 13:30
no we r not going to sign anyone till january
July 15th, 2009 at 13:39
@owen: I can’t see why we would buy in Jan and not now, for me we will only buy in Jan if we have to.
July 15th, 2009 at 13:46
@Andrei: Also, I’ve watched the video a few times.. Fergie says ‘I think that concludes our business….’ He might have well have said ‘the future, only god knows!’. In January when we signed Tosic and Ljajic, Fergie said ‘We wont be signing any more players. We’re done.’ There’s a big difference between that and saying I think we’re done, and then talking down transfer fees, making it very clear we aren’t going to be ripped off. Why else tell the Benzema story? I’ll eat a selection of hats if we don’t sign anyone before the end of the window. Fergie will get itchy fingers looking at his wallet with £80mil poking out of it.
July 15th, 2009 at 13:49
@Traverse:
Would you even eat that tea cosy that Tevez was wearing
July 15th, 2009 at 13:57
To all ranters on the blog read if you lot of time in your life:
I was offline for last 4-5 days and could not read through all the comments over week end. But, when I came back on Tuesday and logged in to blog I was shocked to see so many comments waiting unread by me so it took more than a day for me to get a hang of all the comment I literally went through more than 700 comments in last 24 hrs as and when time permits. So, now you can imagine what must be the state of the mental health I must be in.
(can’t decide where to go hence on the fence)… By the way to GROG and Madchester UTD very impressive CV so much so I would like to keep myself hidden even though mine is not that bad. 
Anyway, I was definitely amazed with the way last few days have gone on this blog a mean fights all over the place. First it was Steve and Dan with all the non sense from Dan and Mr. Eddy himself jumping into the matter before our Big Daddy RR finishing the matter by banning Steve from blog which I felt was inevitable. Then it was our very own GROGY and RR himself. I mean the blog has been on fire since then and to add to that Gaffer did that press conference which literally divided the house in Three. 1 was GROGY and company so called Doom Merchant holder 2nd was the Optimist gang headed by Madchester UTD (not sure of spelling) and RR himself with his latest 1700 good read and other and third was Eddy
Anyway, the point is why am I writing all this and trying to overtake RR in his 1700+ words speech. The simple reason is I want to jump in this debate, hot topic of life after Ronaldo, Fergi press conference and off course Glazers and all if possible….
To begin with I will like to put some point in front of all here. The important thing here is we all are debating about the future which is kind of unknown to all of us. I mean in my financial term if I want to put its like saying that I know where this equity market will take me given what has happened in last one month or specified period. I mean no one can say that because this has happened so this will surely happen. So I don’t buy into your arguments Grog and all Doom merchants Team (here on wards whenever I will say ‘YOU’ or ‘Grog’ it will mean the team as a whole) where you have mentioned like you are sure this will happen and that might have happen and all. So, while I accept your point that while debating you should prove your point by evidence and quotes it not always case that you can do so and say this will lead us to this. So, no matter what ever the examples you give you are basing them on few assumptions.
1. Many times you say that Michael Owen he will end up in hospital so we are short on striker sorry with all due respect to your CV you are not Medical experts nor you are a Doctor that is treating him to say that he will end up in bed at hospital so for me that is an assumption.
2. You have strong views about Berba and you say that because you people are ready to hive him off for the ‘Kun’. But, for me that is most premature thing that we can ever think of. As all of you and me know what all things he brings to the team and he is man who has played as a lead personnel in most of teams he played including international and then suddenly one you ask him to play second fiddle to Ronaldo (which wasn’t wrong but..) it must affect his performance. So, we all agree on this point that he needs to be given the time and support that bring best out him and his best is definitely not questionable in terms of quality. In fact I agree with someone said that Kun might not fit in not because of his lack of adaptibility but may be because of the bcoz of wrong handling on the part of gaffer (ala Veron). So, then kiss those 45 million in dustbin.
3. Next points you all people make out is about buying players all big name players. To tell you all who feels that market is inflated by Fergi that this is utter rubbish. A person with excess liquidity can only inflate the market so a buyer who is ready to pay over the top for the commodity can only inflate the Market and here in this case do I need to point out who is the buyer??? I mean Red Devils never had so much cash forget about the inflation by Manchester. In fact Manchester and AC has helped stabilize the market by not going out with cash they have with them.
4. The thing that we all need to understand that after you sell the player of Ronaldo’s caliber you normally end up rebuilding the team. It’s a rebuilding process which can be processed by blooding the youngsters in or buying the superstar packages like Kun or Ribery etc. But, then the point is what will we do next year when the buying will become even bigger need as 4 people (oldies) will leave. If we panic buy players at an inflated prices due excess liquidity by REAL MADRID then where will we get cash to buy 4-5 players next term same time.
So, I am not saying that everything is so nice and all. In fact I agree we are light in CM dept but at the same time I am definitely not on the side of Doom Merchants because we still have unproven diamonds which we can shape. I mean for god’s sake please give time to talent like NANI and Anderson (Craig and Eddy I want your support now
). I know they are in team for 2 yrs but please put more responsibility and then see whether they bottle down or shine up like a pure gold. Same goes for other talent Kiko, Welnack and all.
All I am trying to say it’s easy to criticize specially after what has happened in last few days but to stay calm and think about the situation is necessary. I mean if that was the first reaction or instinctive reaction by you all then fine but if it’s the reaction then you need to check the other side of the coin as well.
Sorry, for all of you who have read this in full as I made you read something in excess of 1200+ words. But I had no other way around as I found all the Negativity on the blog OTT. So, if you ask me am I all fired up for the season may not be as I am also tentative about the whole thing but I am definitely not a part of Doom Merchants. So I will also join EDDy on the fence
Sorry RR for the lengthy post but I just wanted to show some people that Debating does not necessarily means the putting own points but sometimes it can proving other people wrong with conviction as well
July 15th, 2009 at 13:59
@Traverse: Love the reference. I would also like to be reminded of a summer where Ferguson did not say ‘that concludes our business’ and then went on to sign more players.
Round-up:
2004 – signed Alan Smith and Gaby Henize and said that he was done – deadline day comes and so does Rooney.
2006 – signs Michael Carrick and says that the squad is good enough and there will be no more additions. True that, but he fought for Hargo the rest of that summer and Marco Senna got tired of waiting for United to offer him a contract.
2007 – Nani, Anderson and Hargreaves come and we were apparently done, but then we get Tevez.
Point is, every summer he claims that he is done and will not buy any more players but he usually ends up dipping into his wallet.
July 15th, 2009 at 13:59
He seems to be dampening down the fan’s expectations as well as sending out a message that we are not prepared to be ripped off.
July 15th, 2009 at 14:03
Quote from Santon:
“Ronaldo? He didn’t scare me. I felt worse when I did my high school exams.”
July 15th, 2009 at 14:50
‘Ape’bayor to mancity!?!
WTF, City might actually displace arsenal off the 4th place and be in champions league next season.. That’ll signal the end of Wenger 
July 15th, 2009 at 14:58
Shame about Eckersly, solid young defender, very versatile too. Much better than Rafael defensively. Completely understand his reasons for leaving though.
July 15th, 2009 at 14:59
@Merlinus: I don’t think they’ll miss him. Eduardo will score more than Adebayour. He had one good season 2 years ago. Also, Citeh are going to have quite the harmonious dressing room there! Robinho, Tevez, Adebayour, Bellamy…… they might as well just sign Barton and El Hadji Diouf and start their own MMA league
Still no centre backs I see… but when Terry finally turns them down they’ll go and get Lescott.
July 15th, 2009 at 15:01
@Sir Red: It will be interesting to see what compensation we get for him, more money for the Glaziers to throw into their vaults.
July 15th, 2009 at 15:01
@Merlinus: How they are going to accommodate all the strikers, I don’t know. And I thought Sparky might be the one to take over the reins at OT one day (before he joined City). Glad thats not going to happen any time soon
July 15th, 2009 at 15:29
i am really eager for the season to start and more to watch the progress of man utd and man city this season
July 15th, 2009 at 15:30
talking about man utd bred young defenders here is another who has left united
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/jul/15/richard-eckersley-manchester-united-burnley
July 15th, 2009 at 15:42
@vanderberg: Looking at it from Eckerlsey’s point of view, he is 5th choice and this way will get to play first team Premiership football. Can’t really complain. Good luck to him.
July 15th, 2009 at 15:46
@Traverse: I still have a funny feeling Terry might sign for Shitty, he has been awfully quiet on the matter.
July 15th, 2009 at 15:47
@vanderberg: To be honest, I don’t think he stood a chance to displace any of our full-backs. Rafael is two years younger and better than Eck while displacing Evra (whatever people might say) would be a tough task for anybody in the world.
July 15th, 2009 at 15:54
@Andrei: Rafael is better going forward but defensively Eckersley is certianly better, but the way the modern game is Rafael probably has the bigger future.
July 15th, 2009 at 16:39
@Red Ranter: Yes you are right. Sorry about that RR. I indeed should know better but like Craig is with Nani, my boy id the Hunter and I protect him like a fierce lioness protects her cub.
July 15th, 2009 at 16:42
Gibson has signed a new 3 year deal. Interesting…. very interesting.
http://www.manutd.com/default.sps?pagegid={F9E570E6-407E-44BC-800F-4A3110258114}&newsid=6636290
United’s new goalscoring midfielder ?
July 15th, 2009 at 16:47
@Red Ranter: The problem though is we should not worry about the day Fergie retires, but we should start now and Fergie should start putting supports in the foundation for that day. By not spending and bringing in great players whop are young and can be leaders of the team six or more years down the line, he leaves us open to problems when his heir takes over. Also, Fergie himself has betrayed his own ambitions. Absolutely obsessed with winning one or two more European crowns and yet he has sabotaged that chance in my opinion by not strengthening the squad against the high end European opposition.
Oh sure we are good enough to win our group, but I really worry about how far we can progress once we get into the knockout rounds. I sincerely do not believe our team right now is good enough to beat the last three teams we faced in last years tournament. Not impossible but highly improbable. Lets not forget who we have lost and what he meant to us in this competition. Who do we have that will strike for 30 yards against Porto under big pressure on the road to secure victory? I cannot help but worry.
July 15th, 2009 at 16:49
@The Kid: As much as that was true, I also think the preparation for the team from a psychological point of view was all wrong. The team was in a defensive and caution first mode as well, they were just lethargic and lacking any real drive or energy. It’s almost like the extra time off hurt them more than had they all played the week before. I’m not sure that can be blamed on Fergie and Phelan.
July 15th, 2009 at 16:54
@Chino: From the day Ronaldo arrived to the day he finally lived up to his potential was 4 years mate. Most of the kids we have are nowhere near as good as he was and Fergie does not have four years to wait for youg kids to mature and be great. He has two years to win with them and then we hope and pray he rethinks his retirement plans again. He may but I somehow doubt it this time because this is a tough and gruelling job for any man. But for a 70 year old man, it’s got to be massive. Still, I know it’s the single thing that keeps him young and alive because he loves it so.
So I pray that come the two years, he scuttles his retirement plans yet again. I may be overly critical of him at times but I truly love and respect the man and know that he is truly irreplaceable. I’d rather have Fergie around to get mad at and frustrated with than somebody who is clearly not in his league or class.
July 15th, 2009 at 16:55
@Devilinho: It really was only that last few games where he played as a striker. He has always played as a winger but his style could not be contained or defined by that position. How great was he? Very few players under Fergie have had the complete freedom to go and do whatever they wanted on the pitch. Even Cantona never had that kind of freedom.
July 15th, 2009 at 17:01
@Will: I think Ronaldo was the only player that showed up that night. He wasn’t selfish, he just put the club on his shoulders and clearly had 3 of the 4 best chances for us to score in the entire game. Blame our other heroes for taking the nigh off and forcing Ronaldo to be a little selfish in order to make something happen. We were beyond awful that night. That was clearly the worst loss we have suffered in 4 or five years. It wasn’t the score, it was the methodical and embarrassing way Barca put us in their back pocket and the fact we never had an answer for them because our midfield was woeful and our defenders started to show fatigue and poor form at the worst of times. Few forget what a great game EVDS had in goal for us. Realistically the game should have been 4-1 or 5-1. It was that bad.
July 15th, 2009 at 17:04
@Will: Lets not forget Arsenal and Spurs. In the end he will end up at Arsenal because his ambition will dictate that. Stuttgart wanted him because they are a good team that lost great striker in Mario Gomez. There is no shame in a team from Germany going after him. If United don’t want him it’s not because he lacks quality. It’s because he clearly doesn’t fit Fergie’s requirements style wise. The player is world class and the best poacher out there.
July 15th, 2009 at 17:07
@Will: It was an off the cuff statement where he basically said you never know, if he still has his health and is feeling well, you never. There was no firm commitment on this and his wife still has a say in this as she is deserving of his time and efforts to finally be devoted entirely to her. If he stays past 70, i will be very surprised. Especially since the glazer’s are doing everything in their power to financially restrict his opportunities to truly improve this club. And on that statement, you nor nobody else can convince me otherwise.
July 15th, 2009 at 17:09
@Stephen: Ferdinand wasn’t the culprit who made the two big mistakes that cost us. Evra was guilty on both goals and Vidic was also to blame on the first. Rio was not great but he was solid. Evra was caught out of position and upfield on the first and he gave the ball away blindly and stupidly on the second that led to the cross where Messi headed it in. I blame the Skinned Sausage for everything.
July 15th, 2009 at 17:15
@Julio: Fergie is the greatest manager by far but he is no tactical genius. Rarely do United win on tactics alone. That is the forte of guys like Capello, Mourinho, Hitzfeld, Wenger etc. Where Fergie succeeds is through his keen eye for talent, his preparation both physically and mentally of the team and above all, his man management. And ironically, it’s been his man management that has come most into question of late. The Tevez affair and his lack of strictness towards Ronaldo I think hurt the club. Still from a career standpoint those are his strongest traits. He is not tactically exceptional and the European final is proof positive of that.
July 15th, 2009 at 17:16
@Will: Thanks mate, greatly appreciated. Nice as always.
July 15th, 2009 at 17:21
@Julio: I’m not miserable mate, I just speak from the heart and I have my eyes completely open and am not blinded by faith and naive thought. If you cannot respect that or tolerate that, I could give a fucking rats ass. I’m tired of the fucking abuse I get from some of you part timers who show up once in a blue moon to insult me yet you don’t have a common or interesting thought to offer amongst you. So sit on your damn fence and have fun putting down somebody who actually has a pulse and gives a damn about team and doesn’t hide his feelings or his thoughts whether they are right or wrong. So sod off. There are plenty of blogs out there that deal in Man Utd ass kissing and conformity. Why don’t you take your right wing ass to one of them and let those who believe in freedom of speech and expression live here at Red Rants. Nothing I can tolerate less than intolerance.
July 15th, 2009 at 17:21
@Julio: Umm, if you want to resort to calling names then you’re not welcome.
@Will: Now why would you want to bait someone?
July 15th, 2009 at 17:23
@Julio: He’s the greatest manager of all time, but like all great managers he has his strong and weak points. Tactical acumen isn’t his greatest asset. His strength is motivational ability and man management.
July 15th, 2009 at 17:24
@Stephen: It’s not a funny feeling anymore. I think there’s a greater chance he’ll sign for Citeh than stay at Chelsea
July 15th, 2009 at 17:24
@Grognard: Your black, cold, dead heart
July 15th, 2009 at 17:28
@Red Ranter: Have you seen the footage on skysportsnews of him at the sponsorship unveiling. He looked worried. England’s Brave John Terry © nervous as a virgin.
July 15th, 2009 at 17:32
@owen: Zidane is the Anti-Christ. Like Platini, I hated him as a player and thought he was way overrated and as a kiss ass lackey who hangs around Madrid like one of those beasties that cling on to sharks, he is a parasite who does their evil bidding. He firmly has the ears and minds of French players like Ribery and Benzema and there is nothing we can do about that. Our ambassador is too old and too unknown by this new generation. And unfortunately we have few former legendary players that we can sick on players to help convince them to come here.
I have said for years that the best ambassador we could have that could get in the ear of players and help them choose United would be Cantona. He is retired and unlike Bruce, Sparky, Beckham, Keane and a few others, he is not tied to another club as a player or manager. He would be free to be sent to speak to players and convince them of United’s greatness. He is French yet United and Fergie never thought hey, lets have the King go speak to Benzema or Ribery. He probably still never had the stroke with his countrymen as Zidane had, but still, we need him for this kind of work.
Madrid doesn’t miss a thing when it comes to PR and seduction. Just look at how they unveil their new players and look at how we unveil ours. They go overboard but they also do this not for the fans, but to make the player feel it is special to be signed by Real Madrid. United is to dry and boring because they are treated like a corporation and a brand designed to do one thing, facilitate the Glazer families interests and not the fans or players.
Also, as much as I love Sir Bobby Charlton and Bryan Robson, they are not good enough in the eyes of young player s to convince anyone to sign for us. We need a player that young players can still remember growing up and watching.
July 15th, 2009 at 17:34
Gary Neville alleged to have introduced Mickey Owen to Danny Welbeck at Carrington thus: “This is Danny. He’s 18 and HE’S won the league.”
July 15th, 2009 at 17:36
@owen: Too early to tell. Too many players from different backgrounds and no guarantees that they can blend well with each other and play good harmonious football. I am not convinced Sparky is the kind of manager who has the necessary skills to turn this team into a cohesive well oiled machine. And lets not forget, they are pretty woeful in the back and lack good defensive midfielder.
July 15th, 2009 at 17:53
@donibrasco: “The Barcelona final should have taught us a lesson that team work and good preparation rather than superstars win games.”
Mate, are you insinuating that Barcelona didn’t win because of their superstars raising their game for the big occasion? Tactics and hard work are great but never underestimate the skill and class of the Barcelona players and what their influence on the game did to us. They didn’t just out work us or tactically out coach us. No mate, they completely outclassed us.
July 15th, 2009 at 17:57
@donibrasco: Huntelaar is 25 and not in his late 20’s. And to say he has done nothing is just showing your total lack of knowledge of the player. Unless you know something about a player, try to keep your views on them to a more even leveled opinion. He averages almost a goal a game in in the Dutch league, a goal every other game for his country and he score in 8 of 10 starts he had for Madrid before Ramos played the race card and sided with Raul by playing his friend Higuain. Once the move was made, Real’s winning streak of ten games ended and they choked the rest of the season away. I think Huntelaar had a lot to do with their ten game winning streak.
July 15th, 2009 at 18:01
@Traverse: When we talk of midfielders chipping in goals mate, we are talking about central midfielders, not wingers. I agree about Nani by the way. Question is, will Fergie give him the chance or are we going to have to tolerate Park again.
July 15th, 2009 at 18:03
@Andrei: I think we all realize that there is a possibility of a buy or two but certainly I do not think they will be significant big money purchases. And if indeed we are planning on buying still, then Fergie should not go out and lie to us all. Bluff or no bluff, he deflated a lot of loyal die hard fans with his statements. That was showing us no consideration whatsoever.
July 15th, 2009 at 18:24
@Grognard: I don’t, Vida was at fault for the first and Rio was not fit enough to play in such a game, Evra seems to be the whipping boy somewhat recently I still like the lad but he lost form no doubt after the Carling Cup final but form is tempory and all that.
July 15th, 2009 at 18:28
@Red Ranter: Chelsea want Terry to put in a transfer request so he is seen as the villian not the club, which is understandable as it is a good move for both parties in my view, great money for a player who has a dodgey back and him purely for the fiancial side.
July 15th, 2009 at 18:31
@ grognard : wat is the problem with ustat despite one of the best record ever, no stars r willing to come…
July 15th, 2009 at 18:34
terry is not going anywhere…
its final
July 15th, 2009 at 18:36
@owen: The issue is if he wants to go, Chelsea will cash in especially if the bid gets to around £40m and Shitty offer hin £280k a week, he will want to leave.
July 15th, 2009 at 18:42
It is occasionally illuminating to indicate who was taking the penalties in any one season. Same goes for free kicks. Apparently Ronaldo scored 5 of each last season. Obviously the penalty free kick taker has a boost to their stats – especially if it is the same person for both.
July 15th, 2009 at 18:42
@ stephen : no mate, its not going to happen at any cost
July 15th, 2009 at 18:44
@owen: Why do you think that bro?
July 15th, 2009 at 18:48
@Onkar: First off mate, you brought up a lot of valid points and I am not upset f you do not buy into my mantra and support the Doom Merchants. Let me address some of your points and criticisms of my way of thinking as well as of yours if may.
1. A lot of my argument is based on speculation but it is also based on speculation that comes from years of knowledge and examples I bring from out of this sport as well as others. For example I brought up the trading of Wayne Gretzky in hockey and the season long injury to Tom Brady in American football and how those incidents, completely derailed those great teams they played for. Also, speculation based on cold hard evidence from the past. It is not a reach to speculate that the chances of Owen getting injured are high and that Hargreaves may never return. Nothing would make me happier than to be proven wrong on both. It’s also speculation based on hard evidence and the obvious drop in quality to assume that losing Ronaldo and even Tevez has weakened our team greatly because frankly the replacements do not add up in quality to those two players.
2. It is not unreasonable to assume that this team is not going to be as good based on cold hard evidence. We were overly reliant on the best player in the world and his goals will be missed. He scored many great goals in open play but his striking of the ball in free kicks and in penalties will surely be missed. And I really don’t see anyone on the team that claim that throne right now. Last year with Ronaldo and Tevez in tow we lacked attacking consistency and we scored for us a paltry 68 goals in the Prem. For Manchester United that is not good. Not when a sad bunch like Liverpool can score over 80. Now we have lost the 23 goals scored by those two players in the EPL alone and lets not forget that last year was an off year for both players but especially Ronaldo. What we are truly losing is a player who is close to25 goals in an EPL season and 40 overall and Tevez is generally good for over 12 EPL goals and close to 20 when played properly and fairly. How do we exceed 68 goals while having lost 23 from last season and who knows how many more from the future? Can Owen and Valencia make up that total with added production from both Rooney and Berba? I think not.
3. I too believe Berbatov is a better player than he showed this year and I came out and said that Ronaldo was a key reason for his poor play. Ronaldo and him did not mesh on the pitch at all. Berba should be better but he in no way is a better player all round and with the potential of as big an impact as a player like Kun Aguero would have been. Aguero is arguably in the top 5 players in the world and definitely in the top 10. Anybody capable of judging a player could see that, if they took a clear look and watched enough games.
4. There is nothing wrong with me stating that we should have gone after a star player. I never claimed we should go after star player’s. It was not unreasonable to think that after getting 80 million for Ronaldo and having already had 20 million for transfers before, that we should buy one big name in the 50 to 50 million dollar bracket to be our main replacement for Ronaldo. The fans deserved that and the fact is there was a player out there that was good enough and who would have been a loyal United palyer. The fact we never went after him and instead wasted time on Benzema who was never ever going to happen has rightfully made me think that we were sold a royal con job and that we were never really in the market to spend more than our originally allotted 20 million. Nothing wrong with assumptions when som amny pieces of a puzzle seem to fit.
5. The Glazer’s are behind this entire mess and I believe that with my entire soul. That debt is not an assumption, it’s a reality and 80 million goes an awful long way in helping to reduce it. Why else would Fergie conform to this conservative approach knowing full well that the team is not going to be better and that he only has a few more years left and the driving ambition for more European glory. It makes no sense to not buy a player or players that would make the post Ronaldo era not a rebuilding job but a natural transition.
6. When you are as big a team, as successful a team as rich a team as United, you cannot afford to sacrifice seasons to “rebuild”. What you do is retool. Rebuilding usually means rtelying on lesser and more unproven players and allowing yourself time to get better player or watch younger players mature. We do not have that luxury even though management has thrust it upon us. We are the reigning league champs and the finalists in Europe. For us to have to sacrifice just because we lost a great talent is not right and not practical. Ronadlo could have been replace using 80 million with two to three world class players. My choices were Aguero, Huntelaar and Hernanes or Melo or Yaya Toure. All these players were available and any two or three could have been bought. Even if two of them were bought, we would have filled gaping holes in our team and i would have looked forward to our upcoming season of transition. Instead, we patched up gaping holes with inadequate and highly suspect signings and never filled gaping holes in our team like central midfield and an aging goalkeeper. Sorry but for me, Foster is not the answer.
7. There is no proof that the players we presently have will get much better and help fill the gaps. Our central midfield is not going to get better. I am convinced without a shadow of doubt that Anderson is a king sized dud. Fletcher had a good year and in my opinion that was his peak. Carrick is over used and asked to tdo too many things and his lack of pace and quickness hurts us against more advanced teams. Scholes and Giggs are ready for the retirement home and other than a good leg, Gibson does not have the quality or skill yet, to make a real difference. We needed a box to box midfielder badly and a player who could not only take charge of the midfield, but intimidate, command and attack as well. We don’t have that player and I have serious doubts over hargreaves ever playing again.
8. Finally, there is nothing wrong with speculation and assumption as long as you can back it up with data and evidence that supports that assumption. That is how crimes are solved and many business and political decisions are made every day. There is no way that anyone can substantiate the myth that with our present squad, we will be able to be better than last years squad having lost the best player in the world. To think that is complete and utter folly. If that makes me negative and a harbinger of darkness and doom, it’s only people like you and others who labeled me that and believe it. I for one believe I am more of a realist and a person who does not get tied up with loyalty, sentimentality and blind faith. Speculation is blindly believing that Fergie will always do well because of his past. Need i bring up the names of great coaches in other sports as well as footy who had the game finally pass them by when they got to a certain age. Landry, Lombardi, Knoll, Shula, Bowman, Sather, Stengel, Lasorda, Goram Erickson, Menotti, Scolari etc etc. All great managers all managers who peaked and had a fall. Ferguson will never suffer a great fall but the present financial atmosphere at Old Trafford is not helping him with his future legacy.
July 15th, 2009 at 18:53
@Traverse: I don’t blame the lad one bit. His chances of beating out Brown and Rafael are slim to none. He had to do what was right for him because he is a quality prospect that will be held back.
July 15th, 2009 at 18:53
kenyon gave the statement…
more over , terry has aLWAYS tried to show tat he is for chelsea by blood…
so he must go by his reputation
July 15th, 2009 at 18:54
@Grognard: Doesn’t matter who chips in, as long as someone does!
July 15th, 2009 at 19:00
@owen: Kenyon is a liar we all know that, remember “I have the greatest job in the World” statement also he could be distancing himself from Chelsea “selling” him, forcing Terry to submit a transfer request, obviously this is just me specualting but he has not come out and say he wants to stay has he?
July 15th, 2009 at 19:00
@Stephen: Go back and watch the game mate. On the replay from behind the first goal, take a look at where Evra was and how hard he was trying to get back. Woefully out of position and jogging back. Vida was forced to play the role of RB and move wide and that allowed Eto’o to nutmeg him and embarrass him. He takes the brunt of the blame but Evra created the calamitous situation to begin with. The second goal is entirely 100% his fault because a terrible blind giveaway pass that led to the cross. Now please give me the instances where Rio was to blame for any goals and for sure goal chances. He was far from Rio on that night but for me, he was still better than Evans. I’m backing up my claims with cold hard evidence. What have got to offer in that regards. Just a feeling but based on what? Seriously?
July 15th, 2009 at 19:01
@owen: I don’t understand your question mate?
July 15th, 2009 at 19:03
@owen: Last week I said Terry was going nowhere and if it’s confirmed it just proves yet again that one of my “assumptions” is right.
July 15th, 2009 at 19:04
@ grognard : mate u cant really blame the defenders on that day…
in the way barca was playing,having possession and creating chances, it was always going to get some goals…
July 15th, 2009 at 19:06
@Traverse: Chipping in will not be enough. You cannot chip in and hope to cover the loss of goals and influence that player or players had on a game and a season. Can’t be done with our present squad. We never upgraded in the most needy places.
July 15th, 2009 at 19:10
@Grognard: As I remember it Anderson did not track Iniesta back Evra pushed and was out of position, Iniesta passed to Eto’o walked past Vidic with ease and scored you could blame all three but Evra was least to blame in my view.
Second goal Evra was at his left back spot the ball got knocked out none of the midfield shut the crosser doen and Messi walked between O’Shes and Rio, can’e see how that was remotely Evra’s fault.
July 15th, 2009 at 19:30
@Grog
Mate you single out players in that game everyone played bad except for ronaldo. Yes anderson didnt track back, yes evra was out of position for the second goal but it was also ferdinand wasnt marking him tightly and oshea wasnt as tight on messi aswell. But no one has said giggs was bloody invisible and rooney aswell. It was just the fact that barca outclassed us, and they had more class in the team.
July 15th, 2009 at 19:37
@owen: A good point but it was two basic and vital defensive errors that gave them their two goals, not the dominance they had over us but two mistakes. So yes I can blame Evra and poor Vida for the loss, even though had they not made those errors in theory we still deserved to lose. But then in theory, Barcelona deserved a bloody right ass kicking at Stamford Bridge and they came out of there with a tie thanks to the one chance they had on goal all game. So dominance in a game means nothing unless you score.
July 15th, 2009 at 19:41
@Anthony Los: Ferdinand did not make any mistakes in the goals. A perfect cross for the second was indefensible and was brought on by Evra not only being out of shape but more importantly by him carelessly giving the ball away to a dangerous player who created the cross for Messi’s goal. The first goal was both Vida and Evra’s fault and had nothing to do with Anderson or the midfield tracking back and certainly had nothing to do with Rio as he was marking another player. So I fail to see how Rio played any part in the two goals that killed us off. Rio was not to blame at all for that game and to say goes against hard video evidence to the contrary.
July 15th, 2009 at 19:44
I think Anderson was to blame for the first goal to let Iniesta free in the first place.
July 15th, 2009 at 19:45
@Stephen: Evra had no place being where he was with Barclona having possession of the ball. Blaming Anderson is not the right thing to do here. Blame the culprit who didn’t do his job and was directly involved in the play by his absence and by his poor pass in the second goal. From the sound of it, you would have preferred our midfielders live and breath inside our box protecting the inadequacies of our defenders. That would have been sweet. I don’t think I have ever seen United play ten men behind the ball before. No, I wanted our midfielders to have more grit and more energy not to mention ambition in the attacking zone rather than carelessly send long direct balls out of our zone and forcing us to lose possession to a team like Barca.
July 15th, 2009 at 19:47
@Red Ranter: He had a part to play mate but lets face it, a LB is not paid to be caught so far out of position since he was not involved with th play previous to the turnover and to casually jog back while Vida is confronted by the wily Eto’o was asking a lot of a central defender to handle by himself. Sorry but Evra is 50% to blame, Vidic 40% and Anderson just 10%. That goal was the responsibility of the LB position to prevent.
July 15th, 2009 at 19:48
@Grognard: You can, and we will. Don’t worry. Be happy.
July 15th, 2009 at 19:50
@Grognard: I don’t agree mate, but where is the fun in that
July 15th, 2009 at 19:54
@Grognard: Look evra tried to clear it out but it went to xavi. Xavi wasnt closed down, he was allowed to travel more than a couple paces to set him self for the cross and carrick who was infront of xavi shld have closed him down not evra. Evra was doing his job marking eto’o on his side.
July 15th, 2009 at 19:54
NEWSFLASH FERGIE
According to goal.com Hernanes would be available for 10 million euros. If so we need to hijack AC Milan’s bid and bring the guy to Old Trafford because he would add some much needed quality to our midfield and at 10 million euros it is hardly much of a gamble if he doesn’t adapt to the EPL
July 15th, 2009 at 19:59
@colver: I stopped reading at goal.com
July 15th, 2009 at 20:10
UMM, RR Grognard is name calling and he has done it numerously what you going to do about it???
July 15th, 2009 at 20:13
Grognard ma man I rate that passion bro, I think we should just go marching down to OT and give those right wing guys a peice of your mind I agree mate united and our golden years are soon to demise and we should do something about it, something drastic!!!! like write letters lol, no but seriously stop being so angry mate yes you have a soul and yes you Love United but isnt that why we are all here so if you really believe what your saying grog then why dont you just stop creating moral panic and instead do somthing about it
July 15th, 2009 at 20:35
@Julio: I deal with him accordingly, and he’s had his share of stick from me. Never gives you the right to call names, however. You started it unprovoked. You have no justification.
July 15th, 2009 at 20:46
@Red Ranter: i wasn’t ‘baiting’ anyone… i apologise if it seemed like it. but you must admit that it is daft for anyone be it me or anyone else to predict that this will be a doom and gloom year.. just as it is stupid for anyone to say we are going to win every piece of silver we’re in for… without even a pre-season ball being kicked… i can’t wait for the pre-season tour, but the real show will be against valencia if they still have villa and silva, this will give us an early indication to what our season will look like.
July 15th, 2009 at 20:49
ussain bolt is our fan and a bit disappointed over ronaldo’s departure
July 15th, 2009 at 20:51
That game against Barca seems to stay in everybody’s mind rather than the multiple trophies that we were able to win. 9 times out of 10 we wouldn’t have played as bad as that night.
Europe can wait for a while 
Winning a league title after Ronaldo’s departure would be a very very good achievement. Making sure that we lead Liverpool in number of titles would be the icing on the cake
July 15th, 2009 at 20:52
@owen: why not get Bolt then
July 15th, 2009 at 20:54
@fuzzy: getting back Owen Hargreaves would be a huge bonus
July 15th, 2009 at 21:02
Haha, a Canadian site confused us with citeh and Adebayor… at least for the title of the article, anyway.
Link
July 15th, 2009 at 21:15
@TurkishRED: Saw that too!
For a second I thought WTF?
July 15th, 2009 at 21:18
July 15th, 2009 at 21:27
@Stephen: sorry steve we lost the final because the team that started wasnt good enough! tevez should of stated with his relentless pressure, berba should of played with his technical ability and ronaldo should of played on the wing, because wherever he plays he can get into the box and score, he can cut and penetrate defences from wide, whereas he isnt as effective up top, and the biggest mistake was rooney out wide, he is no god there, its CLEAR for all to see,and therefore he cant support the striker, whereas ronnie could of suppoted rooney, but fergie set up tp stifle as dunphy said, and thats ridiclus considering the players we had, so it wasnt the players fault when thy were playing a game they dont know
July 15th, 2009 at 21:29
@Dan:
That would be classic stuff if he did say it!
July 15th, 2009 at 21:44
@Traverse: Gibson… A bit of a mystery this one. Everytime he plays I feel like I want to say what an underwhelming central midfielder he is… and then he comes up with a goal.
He doesn’t look spectacular in any area of play, and that’s including Fletcher (who nonetheless transforms into the scottish Makelele, but only for big matches, mind).
I have much higher hopes for Matthew James – academy player of the year last season if i’m not mistaken. Would be a shame if Gibson’s presence is detrimental to James, who also has goals in him.
July 15th, 2009 at 21:45
@jamie lee:
I think Tevez is a Judas by his actions but I would be interested in what really went on. I am still concerned about Owen(his goalscoring has been in decline for 5 years) but I will support him and hope he scores 17+ goals.
July 15th, 2009 at 21:52
@Cyclops-Red: hes been at newcaslte for 4 years, not even ronaldo could do well there haha
July 15th, 2009 at 21:54
@NicoQB: ya gibson is so average its not even funny!
July 15th, 2009 at 21:58
@fuzzy: man every body knows utd are kings of the prem, but we are the underacheivers of europe, so i have to disagree with u about europe waiting, how long do u want to wait? till liverpool get 6? barca add another or till real drift further apart that we,ll never cathch them! COME ON! WE should of beat barca last season and would of if we attacked them, now im not sure when we will gwt to another final!! WAIT???
July 15th, 2009 at 22:11
@jamie lee: I agree with nico that james is better, but i dont agree with you saying he is average. Hes not world class, but hes better then fletcher at his age.
July 15th, 2009 at 22:16
@Dan: sorry man but fleth is in another league and gibson doesnt have the energy to become as good as him, he,s another liam miller
July 15th, 2009 at 22:25
@jamie lee: As i said, at his age
It means gibson is better then fletcher, when fletcher was gibsons age.
July 15th, 2009 at 22:33
@jamie lee: other than the fact that when we signed Liam Miller he was already older than Gibson is now
When Fletcher was Gibson’s age he was meant to be ‘rubbish’ too. Also what does ‘he doesn’t have the energy’ mean? Not had enough Lucozade Sport? Gibson is a good player, not great by any stretch of the imagination but I guarantee if he was at Everton or Villa you wouldn’t be saying he is in another league. Gibson is a better goalscorer than Fletcher, is arguably a better passer and as he gets older, will bulk up more and become better in the tackle. I notice people don’t criticise people like Lampard and Iniesta for not running around like a headless chicken and while they ARE in a different league to Fletcher (and all our CMs bar Carrick) it’s not something that’s vital for a CM.
July 15th, 2009 at 22:42
@Liam: Carrick – not in the same league as Lampard or Iniesta. Really.
Fletcher must be loved because of his commitment but Gibson has shown nothing but goals whenever he played. I know that might sounds slightly idiotic but take the Hull game as an example – he scored a goal and was rubbish in every other part of the game.
July 15th, 2009 at 22:58
@Dan: Hey! I always rated Fletch higher when he was in his youth. I have this kind of hunch that his true game, a mix of Carrick like passing and Scholes like game dictating which he showed in his early games, was shunted as a result of Fergie’s tinkering with him on the right and the need for a DM. Fletcher has come good, but I thought he had potential for greater things.
And no, by no means is Gibson rubbish, but I thought that he loses possesion a bit too easily, coupled with the fact that he takes around five distance pot shots per game. Thankfully, one usually rattles the onion bag.
And I agree with jamie lee, there is a distinctive “averageness” about Gibson. Hope he proves me wrong.
July 15th, 2009 at 23:18
@Liam: yes they are in a different league to fletcher, but they dont need to run around as the are technically gifted and let the ball do the work for them, as in fletch hes a workhores, whereas IMO gibsom isnt as gifted as the likes of lamps, and doesnt have the ENERGY as in workrate to make up for what he lacks in the fletcher does! maaybe im wrong but i just dont see gibson making it
July 16th, 2009 at 0:08
If Anderson has a chance of making it at United, I would think that Gibson would too. The lad’s still young, give him a few more years and I think he’ll be a good player.
July 16th, 2009 at 0:15
@Sir Red: and on what basis is ur opion besed on? anderson has been a utd regular for the last two seasons, gibson is only a bit part player
July 16th, 2009 at 0:34
@jamie lee: I’m not saying that Gibbo is better than Anderson, what I meant is that both are young midfielders who show potential. On that basis, I think the Irishman has a chance, the same way Anderson has been given a chance to establish himself in the squad. Sorry if my post mis-led you, English is not my first language.
July 16th, 2009 at 1:21
@Julio: When did I name call?
July 16th, 2009 at 1:27
@Doomed: I live in Canada mate. Honestly, if i lived in Manchester I am mad enough to have started a protest against the Glazer’s and I would have referred to Fergie as their corporate puppet. But there is nothing much I can do here in Canada. Down the road a bit I am considering starting a blog for more hard core fans and people who are not afraid to rock the boat a bit and who don’t conform to the status quo. But that’s a ways away. Glad to have your support mate. Doomed for life!
July 16th, 2009 at 2:45
One for Grognard…
Don’t let your hopes get too high though.
July 16th, 2009 at 3:34
@NicoQB: If Evra (crappy as you people say he is) leaves, he will be missed more than Ronaldo…
I say that because there are absolutely no left-backs left in the world.
July 16th, 2009 at 3:51
@jamie lee: And you base this is on what? The two full games you have watched Gibson play? He’s still akid for crying out loud. Give him some time to mature. At his age he is way farther ahead than Fletcher was at the same age. Anfd he’s got a lethal foot that can add so much to our game. Fletcher doesn’t have that. Time and patience and certainly the amount of times ha has played is not enough for the most hardened expert to make that kind of a judgment. Sounds like a bit of bias to me.
July 16th, 2009 at 3:52
@Dan: Totally agree with that Dan my boy. Great observation. By the way, have you recovered from the Steve assault?
Hope you are over that because I know it upset you greatly.
July 16th, 2009 at 3:55
@NicoQB: A nice fantasy but I wouldn’t bank on it.
July 16th, 2009 at 3:58
@Andrei: It would devastate me if Evra left. Who would I have to berate and spew venom at. I need the Skinned Sausage just for my stress relief. He’s rubbish and I love him for it. And you are right, there are very few great LB’s out there and the ones that are great like Lahm, are not for sale. I still think Fabio will come good by season’s end and steal the spot form the little French Sausage.
July 16th, 2009 at 4:07
@fuzzy: It depends on where you want to set your watermark, mate. Mine moves higher every time we win a trophy. It always has to get better, there’s satisfaction in settling for anything less!!
July 16th, 2009 at 4:19
@Redrich: Correction.
It depends on where you want to set your watermark, mate. Mine moves higher every time we win a trophy. It always has to get better, there’s no satisfaction in settling for anything less!
July 16th, 2009 at 4:25
I was just reading where Roma’s manager Spaghetti was complimenting United on their approach this transfer season. He seems to agree with Fergie that we should not fall prey to escalating transfer prices. And what prey tell has Roma won in the last decade with their dime store tactics?
The problem as I see it though is that sounds all high and noble of them to stand pat and not to get seduced but the problem is that if they don’t pay the money for a Ribery, Aguero, Huntelaar, Young etc, then somebody else will. So in the end their stubbornness and unwillingness to bufge hasn’t helped them one bit meanwhile their competitors have gotten stronger. You snooze you lose is the motto and in my opinion, we have been snoozing big time. Yes prices have gone up for stars but we are in serious need of some real quality players and to do nothing for the sake of principle is just folly. That’s my opinion. Now feel free to butcher me as you all seem to take pleasure in it lately.
Sad thing is I’m only saying what most of your inner hearts are telling you but you don’t want to admit to it.
July 16th, 2009 at 4:30
@NicoQB: Yeah, I thought Fletcher had good potential, earlier in his career. He has a fine appetite for getting stuck in, and can have the knack of being in the right place at the right time. What lets him down is his close control! He is very clumsy when charging in on the ball, and that’s the difference between his good performances and his bad ones.
I could be wrong, but I would doubt there will be that much improvement this late on, but who knows??
July 16th, 2009 at 4:49
@Grognard: This whole idea of the transfer market being inflated, was perpetrated by the 80m we got for Ronaldo.
SAF has the gall to then turn around and cite the idea that “there’s very little value left in the market”. Well no shit, mate!! You got your marbles, did a little tap dance, turned the table, and led everyone down the garden path, just like a modern day “Pied Piper”.
This guy could sell a Ice Cube to an Eskimo!!
The fact that we traded Ronaldo for a healthier bank balance is the one fact that remains true. No matter what he says!!
July 16th, 2009 at 5:12
Excellent finally some1 agrees with me on this situation,its really an alarming rate our midfield are pretty average in the creative department..AS i say this before,it is not about winning it this season its about bonding and getting the system right for our players this season which is truly important..
July 16th, 2009 at 5:48
@Grognard: First of all I never labeled you with that doom merchant and all. In fact, i wasn’t even around when that name has been labeled and you accepted it too. So, when you are saying that people like me labeled you haven’t check you facts on that. I said there has been grouping that has happened on the blog one side you and your supporters (or should i say people who think alike you) who are called Doom Merchants. But, it wasn’t me who did it
) and Kroenke are finding it difficult to get control over it but ours was a PLC so relatively freely transferable. The day we got listed we shot ourselves in the foot. We enjoyed the advantages now we are suffering the disadvantages. MAy be forever. You can complain as a fan but can’t change it.
I agree with most of the points you said but still i will tell you a simple thing that Cold evidences may not always help in speculation as you feel. Just to tell you that you gave me few examples of players whos careers have been ended due to long injuries now i will to point out something. Do you follow tennis buddy? I mean do you know a player called Mark Philliposis? He was literally on wheel chairs once (and i mean wheel chairs) and what did he do? He followed up that injury and time on wheelchair with an apearence on Center Court in Wimbeldon Final only to loose unfortunately. I mean this clearly shows that speculation can always go wrong no matter how many cold facts you have and what intelligent and experiance you have. All you can say that there is more probability of of we are having a doom season then a good season thats all.
Secondly you did not address on thing which pointed out that what will be the situation when you will have 4 players retired and someone like gibson who makes the nos might have left by next season how will you buy 5 players to replace it.
My point is simple i am not saying that everything is great and rosy that why i said i will seat on the Fence on this one but the point is we may need better rebuilding next season then what we are required today. And next year it will be rebuilding and not retooling. So, you may need to have the cash next season as well.
I am sure given the situation of debt and all we will surely not have cash next season if we buy big but if we are content with what we have we may get answer within the team or we may have more probability of having bigger cash handout next season.
As for Glazers issue i am definitely not going to comment on it with same venom like you did. As for me if you ask its the worst thing that has happened for Man UTD club and fan but if you think from business point of view these kind LBO (Leveraged Buyouts) always happens. Where good or bad depends on how you are associated with it.
And to tell you frankly the day Man UTD Listed itself and there were several investor who had fare share but not enough share of ownership it made itself vulnerable to hostile take over and see the result.
I mean look at Arsenal because it closely held club the people like Usmanov (spelling
And honestly Bro i will not say Glazers were wrong. They did what any businessman will do. We have to remember they are Business mans and not fans and fanatics like us. And unfortunately today we also have to accept that ‘Football is more of Business then Entertainment’.
So unfortunately live it bro… I know difficult but….
July 16th, 2009 at 6:26
@Redrich: That’s exactly what I’ve been squawking about but nobody seems to get the hypocrisy in the whole thing. Although to be fair, Milan got an awful lot of money for Kaka just before the Ronaldo deal and sorry but Kaka is no longer worth half that amount.
Insane times my friend, insane times.
July 16th, 2009 at 6:53
@Onkar: Mate, at no time did I accuse you of labeling me. The labeling happened days before you arrived. Yes you brought up the Doom Merchants thing but trust me, the title isn’t nearly as insulting as the idea I am some fascist psycho that wants to destroy everything Man Utd stands for. I just want them to win and to continue their commitment to excellence. I do not think that this summer they have done that. They make 80 million pounds unloading the greatest player in the world and then come up with lame assed excuses as to why they won’t spend any of that loot on quality players. Hypocrites the whole lot of them. And above all, cone men. I’m on to them, so they will never snow me. I know just what’s behind their lack of spending. Liars and cheaters and disrespectful to the millions of loyal fans who contribute to their coffers every year. They have become a corporate snake and an unfriendly PR monster. They don’t give a rats ass about their supporters and they expect us to sit back and tolerate their fall from grace.
As far as injuries go mate, I go with the odds. Your example of the tennis player is one in ten thousand. I’m happy dor the bloke but the grim reality is there are some injuries that have a very low percentage of succesful return. Rotator cuffs in baseball are 50/50, ACL’s in American football are around 40% successful comebacks and tendinitis that requires surgery, which is what Hargo has, has got a very bad success rate. It usually occurs to arms and especially to baseball pitchers and football quarterbacks but it is relatively rare in knees. The few times I have heard of it, it has forced a few hockey players I know to retire.
Owen Hargreaves is my favorite United player and he is also a fellow Canadian and so there is nothing I would like to see more than his successful return. But I reserve the right to be pessimistic about this because to be honest, if all had gone right with his surgeries, he should have been training with the club right now.
Just because you may need four players or so to replace the older ones who will be phased out next season does not mean that you have to wait until next season to buy the replacements. The right players may be available right now and won’t be next year. And if you think the prices have escalated out of control this summer, wait until next summer when it’s a World Cup year. It will be nuts. Right now we could get Ribery, Young or Silva to replace Giggs or Hernanes or Toure to replace Scholes. And now was the time to go after EVDS’s replacement as keepers like Adler, Neuer, Boruc, Akinfeev, Buffon and Casillas will be priced higher after the World Cup. You go after the players now, not next year.
And finally the Glazer’s are dead wrong. They have created the debt and the mess they are in. They also have many means at their disposal to help pay for it. Tickets, Special boxes, TV revenue, Licensing merchandise, revenues from cup competitions and playing in Europe and corporate sponsorship brings in tremendous money every year. The one thing that should always be off limits to them is the revenue that comes to the team from the sale of players. That money should always go to the buying of players and to player development. On top of that, the owners should also reward the team for it’s quality and excellence by allocating additional funds every year for player purchases. We made 80 million for Ronaldo, 6 million for Campbell and 3 million for Eckersley. That’s 89 million and the Glazer’s should have topped that off with another 20 to 30 million based on the size and quality of our club. That’s well over 100 million to spend and we have spent 19 million. A total disgrace and a total con job. Basically it is obvious mate, the 80 million for Ronaldo went into the bank and all we spent was the 20 million allocated to us for players. So in theory we should have 9 million left to buy somebody else. That is an incredibly sad state of affairs and has literally shot this team directly in the foot. And you all will see what comes of this, trust me.
I have no choice but to live with it. But never assume that I will conform to it and take it up the ass like so many have. I will fight and bitch and I have a truck load of I told yo so’s waiting for the right time to spring it on all of you.
July 16th, 2009 at 8:10
ferguson has done what every other manager out there has refused to do, he has said no to spending huge on players not worth the bucks, i can honestly only put three players above 50 mil,kaka, cr7 n messi. the rest just average 30 mil at best, that goes for ribery and benzema too.Ever since madrid bought cr7, every club that gets wind of united or madrid wanting their player immediately pushes the price up to ridiculous proportions in order to get a piece of the large cake even if the player they are selling isn’t worth half of what they asking.
July 16th, 2009 at 8:42
@Grognard: Actually the Knee tendonitis takes a long time to heal. The tissue when it gets thickened prevents the growth of blood vessels hence delaying the healing. The surgery opens up the tendon tissue allowing healing to take place. So Knee tendonitis is a bio-mechanical problem. However successful the surgery was, Hargo will have to rest his knee appropriately for better healing. Any Bio-mechanical problem will remain no matter what the surgery was.
But let’s hope he comes back so that we can atleast get him ready for the big matches because once he is there on the pitch he is like a wounded tiger.
The come back of Ronaldo ( fat one) was pretty amazing from the tendon rupture. So lets hope we’ll get to see Hargo soon.
July 16th, 2009 at 9:03
@Grognard: At no point mate i said what Glazers has done is right. I am only saying that what they are doing is Business. The mess as you have said regd debt is nothing but the leveraged buy out (LBO) which was made possible because our own mistakes which we committed in past like listing the entity on the exchange when it not having any one dominating share holder.
See bro the issue is because at the time of takeover we were listed and we did not have strong and single largest majority share holder with considerable shareholding say 60-70 percentages of total it made possible for him to take it over. As it was listed it was freely transferable and there were few other things as well.
Now why am i putting these things as well. Am I supporting Glazers??? Not on this earth it is going to happen…. But, what i am trying to do is a simple thing try and be objective and try and understand the difference between the Business man and the fanatics. That’s all. So all the voices against Glazers I am not the one to shout about it.
As far as few people say that the money earned from players should go to players again. I have only one problem in this in the Football BUSINESS along with stadium, training grounds and few other facilities what are the things that can be considered as your assets. None. Only other thing that can be considered as an asset is players who are there with club and have been there on the long term contract.
Now, the matter of the fact is once you considered player as one of the asset that club has remember one thing that the moment you take up some loan which is secured that has some charge on your asset you have to make sure that if you liquidate some asset then you are apying of some portion of your long term secured debt. Or else it will create the unnecessary burden on the remaining assets of the club.
The classic example of the same thing is Arsenal they are literally selling an established players every season. Not because they don’t need them because they understand that debts are an issue. now the argument is what have they won in last 4 yrs. I agree nothing but at least they have given themselves the opportunity of winning by sustaining at this level. If they would have not taken the correct care they could have end the way Leeds UTD has. I mean they tried what you are saying being aggressive on the back of successful year and what they end up with. Now they can’t win anything even a match forget about trophies.
So, the point is when you are selling your asset sometime the proceeding can be rather should be utilized to fund debt. Because its about surviving first and then winning.
Here i am not supporting the Glazers but what i am saying in todays situation this is thing that we can and should have done.
And what all you said about other sources they revenue source they are normally utilized to pay interest first and then pay principal amount if possible. So, I am not saying that you are wrong may the fan is correct if he voiced the concern and frustration but here the problem is that you are acting more like fanatic and not fan.
So, all i am saying what they are may not be right in short term but to sustain in longer term you have to do it or else you will perish like Leeds has.
Here, please make a note of one point mate you can’t keep on bitching about the glazers did this, they put debts on and all. The fact is they already have done what a business man wanted to do. So, now we have move and accept the reality or else if don’t take care in present the then we may not even survive in future due to crippling under the debts. So, then there will be no future forget about future being bright….
July 16th, 2009 at 9:23
@Scorp: It’s also known to be a chronic problem and many who suffer from it have the problem reoccur regularly. It’s like athletes who suffer from chronic muscle pulls. The former great running back of the Dallas Cowboys Emmitt Smith suffered from chronic hamstring pulls and in the end he said it almost forced him to retire 4 or 5 years before he ever did. He found wearing woman’s nylons seemed to keep it under control and thus lengthen his career.
I myself suffered from elbow tendinitis back in my youth because I was a pitcher and I also played quarterback in pickup games with my friends. When the tendinitis flared up it literally took months for it to calm down. A friend of mine had elbow surgery for his but even after that it still bothered him but not as badly. For Hargo to require surgery on both his legs is a serious problem because one uses their legs to walk and function daily, where as one never puts that kind of strain on their arms unless they are playing sports or doing something very grueling. I am not optimistic about this but I sure hope I am wrong he’s too good a player and also vital to our future.
July 16th, 2009 at 9:36
@Onkar: Sorry mate, I don’t follow you. I have been involved in all kinds of business over the yuears and have dealt with CEO’s both as a government official and as an IT recruiter. I also had my own business and I know how businesses function and i also recognize when ownership has bitten of more than they can chew. A business like a sports team needs segregation. The player and on filed side of the business needs to be separated from the corporate number crunching side. No matter what kind of things a restaurant has to worry about in order to survive, key to it’s success is leaving the kitchen manager in charge to hire the staff and to designing and maintain the menu as well as the food costs. At no time does upper management interfere with this or the whole thing falls apart. They must let the kitchen operate with separation from the rest of the operation.
United make a lot of money. The Glazer do not need to nor should they ever mess with the revenues produced from player transactions. These transactions are the lifeblood of a team and are the most vital aspects of the team’s on field performance and potential. To strip a team of 80 million after they sell the best player in the world is reprehensible as it guarantees a poorer product and a fall from grace. If indeed the money went to the team’s accountant, we have a very serious problem on our hands and it’s vital that somebody step up and buy the team and get these fuckers from Florida out of Manchester ASAP. On the other hand, if the money is available to Fergie and he hasn’t spent it for the reason’s he’s given, it’s time for the old man to retire because if there is nothing I can’t stand more it’s a skinflint who manages a football team. I hate frugal thinking at a time when aggressive action needs to be taken. I like managers to emulate General George Patton, not Field Marshall Montgomery. Carpe Diem.
July 16th, 2009 at 9:39
@jamie lee: That is total rubbish mate I am afriad, that side which was not good enough transed Arsenal over two legs, always easy to criticize after the event, most people believed the side Fergie put out was the right one, and after ten minutes it looked that way, when things were going wrong at half time he changed it, the players have to take the responbility for playing poorly.
July 16th, 2009 at 9:41
@Onkar: There is no reason to think they can’t handle the debt because United’s yearly revenues are second only to Madrid. Therefore the money is coming in and they can reduce the debt every year. But in order to maintain those profits, we need to win trophies and reach finals. I am not sure what being thrifty is going to accomplish because it will prevent us from reaching those goals and thus lessen the team’s overall profits. Basically, you need to spend money to make money. Business 101 mate.
July 16th, 2009 at 9:50
@Grognard: Bro.. Thats where i totally agree with you. That’s why i said that i am in no way supporting the Glazers. That can’t happen on this earth. And i don’t disrespect the kinda experiance you have. I was just trying to put a light on one thing that whatever happens due to economic condition and the amount of debts we have no other option but to use those proceedings for our survival and that why I pointed out the relationship with Arsenal. And there methodology in recent years. The reason for it like you have pointed out
“i also recognize when ownership has bitten of more than they can chew.”
So, as i said its not about whats right and whats wrong anymore its about the whats needed to be done today to survive simple….
As far as some other ownership goes we really need it badly because even after the best phase in last few years that we had winning wise we could shade even a single pound due to repricing of debt then we are in huge huge trouble. So, i hope something should happen otherwise its trouble…
July 16th, 2009 at 9:57
@Grognard: I agree bro that we are generating enough revenue to service debts right now.. But, as far as i know the repricing of most of debts has taken amount back to square one. As due to economic situation the debts have been repriced at higher cost.So, afetr the best period as well we haven’t paid any principal amount effectively which is the worry for me. See the thing is simple that we are servicing the debts not paying them of today. That is we are paying the Interest amount and can’t pay principal and that is the trouble….
That’s why i totally agree that we need to kick these People from Florida out of Manchester…
July 16th, 2009 at 10:10
Just check this link…
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_5435790,00.html
Mr. Gill is not rulling out any more transfer….
What ya say????
July 16th, 2009 at 10:31
@Onkar: Player activity could also mean loan,sell
@Grognard: Yes our business model is based on servicing our debt from our turnover every year, hence it is imperative that we should have continued success. But we were being ripped off for the prices that we were being asked. Ofcourse we started it by selling Ronaldo for 80million but only becasue Real were ready to part with that much amount of money.
I think the 80 million went directly into the Glazer’s pocket. Either that or Fergie is actually delaying his transfer activity to see if the kids have it in them to fill in the shoes of the ‘old guard’. Either way we can do no worse than Arsenal atleast this year who are themselves trying to raise some cash by issuing new rights.
Finish in the top 2, quarters of CL, I think should be a realistic target.Anything more than that I’ll never hear you bashing Fergie again
July 16th, 2009 at 10:57
@Grognard: Mate Ribery will not be sold this season and an agreement similar to Ronaldo has probably been set already with Real, the club he wants to play for.
Young in my view is overrated, and would be very expensive, Silva wants to stay in Spain and is very light weight and might struggle in the Premiership also we also have 5 wingers at the club already and that is not including Giggs.
Hernanes would I agree be a good signing but Toure has signed a new contract and Barca and realistically why would he want to leave?
This is EVDS’s last season but Foster has just signed a new contract and Fergie will give him a chance this season to claim that jersey and if he doesn’t then Ok we will have to buy a new keeper, but Foster deserves a chance.
July 16th, 2009 at 10:59
I think Fergie is behind this decision to stall on player signings. We were willing to spend £30 million on Benzema before it became clear he’d move to Real Madrid. So there was theoretically £50 million available of which we have spent £20 million. Before that the money was also there to complete the Tevez deal.
So there is definitely £20-30 million available if Fergie wanted it. This isn’t Liverpool. The owners aren’t suddenly going to deny us funds. I’ve been impressed by the Glazers. We’ve spent a good amount of money…and yes we have been ripped off every single time!!! But that is life.
If anyone should be talking about value for money it is the Glazers’ not Fergie. Fergie is his own man and wouldn’t speak on the behalf of the owners without making it clear.
The truth is that Fergie when it comes to new signings cannot see beyond a few of his favourites who have caught his eye over the years. Rather than widen his net and look for value he gets ripped off. With £20-30 million we could easily strengthen our midfield but Fergie is out of ideas.
July 16th, 2009 at 11:39
@colver:
I haven’t been impressed with the Glazers.
They claim that they have improved the financial performance of the club which statistically is true but the main increases in revenue have come from;
a) increase in ticket sales (doesn’t take a financial genius to do this)
b) increased revenue from Pay TV which they did not negotiate under the PL’s collective agreement.
If you look at our net transfer spend since the takeover then we have spent on average £5m per year(if you factor in Ronaldo’s sale)
Assuming Ronaldo’s money is spent then this becomes £17m per year.
This is very similar to when we were a Plc operating with less revenue.
July 16th, 2009 at 11:55
@Cyclops-Red: The Glazers are going to pretty much clear off the whole debt when in 2 years Nike’s lease on the Old Trafford Megastore is up. I think the current deal was signed at £400mil for a 10 year lease in 2001. This will be up for renewal in 2011. I’d imagine we’ll negotiate a much bigger package. Somewhere around the £750mil for 10 years mark. Completely wipe off the debt, using our own money.
Irritating as fuck from our point of view, that money could have been spent updating Old Trafford, buying players, bringing ticket prices down. From their point of view they’ll end up owning United and debt free without spending a dollar.
July 16th, 2009 at 12:19
@Traverse:
Good point, but I was just commenting on the Glazers handling of the “business” so far. I think there are other areas that can be used to reduce the debt. I’ve been trying to do some research recently and it appears we have a land&property portfolio worth £300m around the Old Trafford and Trafford Park area. This area could be ripe for redevelopment over the next few years.
July 16th, 2009 at 13:01
p
July 16th, 2009 at 13:05
The touring party has been announced as being Van Der Sar, Kuszczak, Foster, Evans, Evra, Ferdinand, Neville, Brown, O’Shea, F.Da Silva, Nani, Tosic, Fletcher, Anderson, Gibson, Scholes, Carrick, Giggs, Owen, Berbatov, Macheda and Rooney.
What team selection would people like to see on Saturday?
July 16th, 2009 at 13:08
@Grognard: Exactly we have the cash now so why be timid to dish it out even though thats the sensible thing to do but we are not in a position to be sensible. I have to say fergie is doing a smart thing but it could backfire because by the time his opinion of inflation in the market has gone down all the players are going to be gone.
July 16th, 2009 at 13:15
Well Grognard you name called Zidane and Evra, and some sounded very offensive to me???
July 16th, 2009 at 13:22
VDS
?? Ferdinand Evans Evra
Nani Carrick Ando Tosic
Owen Roon
Subs on Fabio 4 Evra; Gibbo 4 Carrick; Either Macheda or Berba 4 owen
July 16th, 2009 at 13:24
@Julio: Stop crying about it, he didnt direct it at u
July 16th, 2009 at 13:27
Can anyone explain what this is all about…..
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1199950/Adebayors-agents-turn-United-City-balk-wage-demands.html
I just lost my thinking, head and commonsense everything… I mean Adebayor to Man UTD
July 16th, 2009 at 13:27
@Julio: Read the comments policy and then get back to me. If insults at players is offensive to you, this blog is not for you. Time to move on to other blogs.
July 16th, 2009 at 13:34
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/2009/07/16/ash-the-cash-united-115875-21523205/
is this true
July 16th, 2009 at 13:47
@Anthony Los: They’ve been going on in the papers about young on an almost daily basis, i wasnt too sure at first if there was any truth in it but the more you think about it, it could be true. Downing is strictly a left winger and unless they moved young to the right which would also result in them dropping the impressive milner to the bench or to RB position which i think overall would weaken their team so i wonder if they would do all this just for downing unless they had the intention of selling young altogether.
On the other hand though downing is injured for a few months and even when he returned to fitness you would be taking about xmas til he was back to full fitness, so why would they sell young when downing is injured anyway.
Its a two way thing i guess from their point of view, they may see £20+ million as too good to turn down and theres no doubting from our clubs view he is good to play here, imo he is the best winger in the prem.
Thing is we have signed 2 wingers already this summer, we have about 6 now and i just dont see us going out and getting another one. Shame really cos i think he is made for us and would have been a perfect new number 7 imo.
July 16th, 2009 at 13:49
@GaitherAnt: is Rafael injured? Was looking forward to seeing Valencia and Obertan
July 16th, 2009 at 13:52
@Matt: Young is probably the most overrated player in the league. He is a good mid-table-top 7 player but nowhere near world class.
July 16th, 2009 at 13:57
@Redrich: You are absolutely spot on! I have been saying this for weeks now. While 80 million pounds for Ronaldo was good business for Ronaldo, there is no way he was worth that much, therefore Sir Alex only game impetus to other clubs for demanding such high tranfer fees for their players. The pot calling the kettle…
July 16th, 2009 at 14:04
@Matt: cheers man. Yea me too i think he wld have been our ideal 7 cause he really could improve into the new ggis
July 16th, 2009 at 14:06
@Richmond Red:
I think we sold him too cheaply. £80m plus Huntelaar would have been a fairer price.
July 16th, 2009 at 14:07
@Liam: what r u on about, he has the most successful crosses in the league (goals scored from them ect.) and isnt that the main job for wingers. He scores goals (almost 10 in the league ) and he had 9 asists (league). So mate you can’t say he is overrated because he blatantly isnt
July 16th, 2009 at 14:09
@GaitherAnt: Where is Valencia and Vidic?
July 16th, 2009 at 14:11
@Stephen: no mate the team that thrashed arsenal was the one we put out in the first leg, we played 442 and attacked relentlessly, and good of won by 3 or 4, the second leg we put out 451 or 433,and arsenal were in control for the first 7 mins as we decided to play a dangerous game, the counter, and it wasnt till young gibbs made a terrible MISTAKE for our first goal that we gained control, the arsenal heads went down from there and made it easy for us! i would love to know who thinks we put out the right team against barca cause i dont no anyone who does
July 16th, 2009 at 14:13
How come we are not taking Park for Asia tour ?
July 16th, 2009 at 14:35
@jamie lee: What would have happened if we had scored early on against Barca when we have all the game? If’s and buts becuase no one knows, tactics did not loose us the final, the players we poor one the night and did not perform.
July 16th, 2009 at 14:36
@Scorp: cause he’s bollocks or he is injured
July 16th, 2009 at 14:43
@Cyclops-Red: Yeah we spent like £50mil acquiring the freight train depot behind the north stand and a whole bunch of surrounding land. There’s a tonne of money to be made redeveloping it and turning it into god knows what.
July 16th, 2009 at 14:46
@Stephen: ur the one going on about ifs and buts, im telling u facts, i dont disagree that the players played poorly, rooney inperticular, howver tactics had a major emphisas on the way we played, players out of postion ie rooney, and the team set up to defend ie park, we were all over the place, can u honestly tell me if ronnie was on the wing and rooney up top with tevez, we would of played so poor?
July 16th, 2009 at 14:46
@Richmond Red: Vidic just had a kid. Valencia was playing with Ecuador until about 2 weeks ago, so he’s probably on a beach getting.. a tan?
July 16th, 2009 at 14:54
@jamie lee: Mate I can’t tell you that and neither can you, that formation has worked in the past alas I am not a fan of it but it has worked.
It was 11 against 11 mate, Rio, Vida, Evra all played poorly they were set in their normal roles.
Carrick, Giggs and Anderson were set up in their well not all natural with regards to Giggs but were all poor.
Ronaldo played superbly at the Emerites and was probably our best performer and he was put up their to run at Pique and Toure and caused problems early on, Rooney was played in a position I am keen to see him but has played their nemerous times and was poor, Park played in his usual position and was poor, so in my view well played poorly.
July 16th, 2009 at 14:58
ashley young and valencia on the wings provide breath taking crosses for our forward line, it will be like the good old days of becks and giggs, it worked then, so it can work now, the pace of our game will be so much quicker too
July 16th, 2009 at 15:04
@Liam: Alot of people say young is over rated but tbh i never understand that logic. Lets put it this way, who else in the league on the left or right is better than him? Lets look at the top 4 selection of wingers first:
Certaonly park, tosic, valencia and obertan arent whilst nani does have potential to be better but isnt yet.
Chelsea have zhirkov whos a talent but we dont know how he will be over here, joe cole is always injured and for me too much of a show pony who hasnt produced for years, malouda is just terrible and kalou is the same.
Kuyt at liverpool is more a workhorse nothing special and riera is hot and cold.
At arsenal nasri is decent, walcott is good but not as good as young. For me the only other winger in the same class as young is arshavin and looking throughout the rest of the league i cant see another stand out winger to rival those 2.
Definitely young is not world class but hes defo one of the best if not joint best with arshavin who for me are both the stand out wingers in the english prem.
July 16th, 2009 at 15:07
@Stephen: ya but what im saying is u cannot sit back and let barca play, which is what we done, that was tactic, and what is the point of having the best english striker in the game if we,re to play him wide TO DEFEND, and ronaaldo would of caused more problems on the wing, because he can cut in and move out wide, while rooney moved around in the middle, this would of caused more problems for barca and put them under pressure, and regardng giggs and park playing in normal postions and playing poor, the fact is managers bad decision too pick them ahead of the talented berba, (who i dont like btw) and the ebergetic tevez, it was inevetable that we were to play poorly, besides referring to another comment of yours how we thrashed arsenal with this system, they are no where near the same league as BARCA, so fergie has got to take the blame, losing was one thing but losing the way we did, that just hurt, because when u fight and lose its ok, but we said here just fucking make us look ridicalus
July 16th, 2009 at 15:08
@jamie lee: Young is right footed and very right footed so him playing wide left would not provide that many balls into the box, that is obviously in a 4-4-2 system or there abouts.
July 16th, 2009 at 15:15
@Matt: matt i have to agree with u about young and people saying he is over rated, i myself think he is infact under rated, and i believe the reason for this is people have forgoten about the typical winger and his role, we have been spoilt with the likes of ronnie, messi, arshavin, etc, they forget that a winger needs to beat a man, cross the ball and have pace, everything young has, ok he cant cut in and score 35yarders or dominate like ronaldo, but if he came to us he would have to, all he,d have to do is do his job without excess baggage, and he does that well!!!
he is not a GREAT player, but neither was beckham, albeit different types, but i think he,d fit in with us in a 442 penetrating attack minded team, plus he,s english, 10 years ago fergie would definetly have bought him
July 16th, 2009 at 15:15
@Matt: well put
July 16th, 2009 at 15:17
@jamie lee: I to a degree don’t disagree, Fergie has to take the blame for the defeat with the players because when any side loooses the manager has to take the wrap.
The point I was making was that Barca played with a midield three of Busquets, Xavi and Iniesta if we went with two in there, lets say Anderson and Carrick we would have put ourselves under great pressure, going with the three was cautious but sensible.
Rooney was in there to protect an off form Evra against Messi whick Ok was not attacking but logical and Park was doing the same for O’Shea who is a natural right back against Henry.
I can see Fergie’s logic, and he changed it at half time and put Tevez on, this in turn did not work, you can pla any system in the world but if the players don’t turn up on the night that is irrelavent you play poorly against a top team and you loose, but Fergie was playing the safe game but that was understanable and as I say hindsight it is easy to have a go at him, but when Tevez came on we played no better, likewise when we have Berba on as well, the players let us down
July 16th, 2009 at 15:18
@Stephen: well he plays well out wide LEFT for villa, so y wouldnt he do it well for us? with his pace he could beat his man, turn and cross with his right, who else is out there that we can get? whats ur opinion on the system for next season?
July 16th, 2009 at 15:18
@Stephen: if you go on youtube when he got his pfa young player of the year it says he has the most successful crosses in the league and it is from the left side because thats where he played all season long and he didn’t drift wide on the right hand side
July 16th, 2009 at 15:23
@Stephen: by the time tevez came on we were run ragged and a goal down, not much changed as rooney was still out wide, and safe is never that good of an idea in football, we are manchester united we fight and we attack, we do not play safe, and it wouldnt of mattered about there extra midfielder cause it wouldnt of been long for one of them dropping back to help out cause we would of had them under pressure, lets agree to disagree!
July 16th, 2009 at 15:26
jamie lee i agree with you. Barca posed little threat on the flanks with Alves out and Messi played centrally. If we had Ronaldo on the wing and Rooney up front we could have given their defence more work to do. Instead we tried to go through the middle which failed miserably because that is where Barca are strong.
I really doubt Young is coming to us. There is no way he is worth £25 million or whatever Villa are asking.
I also ask everyone who is going to be on the end of these amazing crosses? We have two midgets and a Bulgarian who doesn’t want to ruin his hairband by heading the ball the few times a match he actually makes it into the box.
If there is any value to buying Young it is for his ability to cut inside and his pace which would fit nicely into our counter attacking style.
July 16th, 2009 at 15:30
@jamie lee: I think personally we will go for a 4-4-1-1 sort of formation but Fergie to my annoyance does not settle with a stable set up does he!
I like Young but he is a right footer playing wide left and he is very right footed so he will keep having to switched back onto his right, which being realistic Nani could do, or Obertan or we play Tosic.
We have Nani, Park, Obertan and Valencia who are right footed if we were to buy a winger ideally he would be a left footer, for me ideally Ribery but that won’t happen Robben who is superb and avaiable, I know he has had his injuries but he has a knew personal trainer now and looks fit, but I am a real Drenthe fan and he would take to the Premiership like a duck to water.
July 16th, 2009 at 15:30
For the 4-4-2 Formation, i made a line up that includes the players ages, (some have either nov or oct next to it which means their birthday is in november or october) and other details underneath. If you look at our defensive line, even though you need an experienced defense it is getting old. Our centre mids are too. Carrick 28 and Hargreaves 28. Any thoughts on this
Van Der Sar (38)oct
Brown(29)Oct/Rafa(19)/O’shea(28) Ferdinand(30)Nov Vid(27)Oct Evra(28)
Valencia (24) Carrick(28)/Fletch(25) Hargo(28)/Ando(21) Nani(22)Nov/Park(28)/Obertan(20)
Berba(28)/Owen(29) Rooney(23)Oct
Expected to step up next Season: Macheda, Welbeck, Tosic, Gibbson, Evans
Hot Prospects: Tosic,Welbeck, Macheda, Fabio, Gibbo, Petrucci, De Laet, Evans, Ljajic, Possebon(Loan)
Replace: Giggs(35) , Scholes(34), Neville(34, VDS (38)
Positions that need Strengthening: CM(Hernanes), LM(Young), CF(Hunter)
July 16th, 2009 at 15:31
@jamie lee: Ha ha or meet down the pub for a few ales so we can really discuss it!
July 16th, 2009 at 16:44
@Stephen: You do know ribery is right footed, right?
Nani has good quality in his crosses like young, but young is far more positive and direct and has more pace to burn. I like that. Also, like nani, he doesn’t have to check back onto his right all the time. He can cut in or go down the line and is better playing down the left for this reason. It is harder for defenders to anticipate what he will do. Perhaps obertan can do all this too(wishful thinking). I’ve not seen him play.
July 16th, 2009 at 16:53
@tevez: Yes mate obviously, but he is an exceptional player similar to Ronnie who can do almost everything and get away with playing out left but badly put I must say, I was trying to compare that with Ashley Young
Then go to my more sensible options 
July 16th, 2009 at 17:21
@Grognard: and the dutch hahaha
July 16th, 2009 at 17:41
@Onkar: If our debt is being treated like paying the bare minimum on a standard credit card, the debt will never go away and in fact may even increase as interest rates go. Therefore, we the fans of Manchester United and the many fans who live in Manchester and surrounding areas need to get active and make a stance. It’s us or the Glazer’s. These ass clowns need to be forcefully escorted to the airport on a one way flight back to Florida. I absolutely get sick when I think of the Arab consortium’s who bought Man City and are about to buy Pompey having incredible financial backing and freedom and the second biggest club in the world is struggling to just get buy. I even feel sorry for the Dippers who have to put up with yet more incompetent American ownership because frankly they are to big a club to have to suffer that kind of indignity. Hang on, what am I saying, they are scouser dogs, they deserve it.
It’s time to stand tall against the Glazer’s and this debt because it is severely crippling this club’s attempt to compete with the other giants of the game who have far more stable ownership. Enough is enough.
Manchester United is being run like a dime store and so many of us are accepting this without a fight. We are bigger and better than this and we the fans deserve a lot better and more respect than we have received this summer. Over 100 million to spend and they bought sweet fuck all. Instead they increase ticket prices, my tv cable package for Setanta Canada has gone up and only a small percentage of that money has gone towards players and none has gone to reducing prices for tickets or merchandise to appease the fans. Read this article to get another similar perspective on a group of fans that feel like I do. Unfortunately, we are in the minority because there are too many who have too naive a faith in the gaffer and thus won’t wake up and smell the coffee.
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/manchester_united/s/1126426_uniteds_100m_question
July 16th, 2009 at 17:46
@Scorp: We will do no worse than Arsenal? Is that what it has come to mate? We are not Arsenal, we are Manchester United. We don’t settle for 4th and rant about how happy we are to have made it in to the Champions League. We win our league and then we try to win the Champions League. We are bred to win, not just compete and settle. This is why I am so disturbed with the current state of affairs and why I am bloody well pissed off with all the apathetic attitudes who seem to think we are just as good or better. Anything but first is unacceptable. We shouldn’t be trying to rebuild, we should be trying to retool. There is a major difference there mate.
I remember at times like these my High schools fight motto. United should borrow it. “Second to none.” And they should stop thinking like second in my opinion.
July 16th, 2009 at 17:51
@Stephen: I agree with you on most of that. I know we would never go after Ribery and Silva but I still think Young would be a good signing because I do not feel Fergie has the proper amount of faith in Nani. I also think Villa’s capture of Downing may be a precursor to something. O’Neill says he is a direct replacement for Barry but they don’t play that position and I think Sidwell is that replacement. I think he is a replacement for Young. Now the question is, is Young coming to United? I too think he is overrated and lacks the stamina for a long season but he is still good enough for me and he would not be burned out here as he was at Villa because we have ample backups to rest him enough. He was bloody awesome in the first half last season before fatigue got the better of him.
July 16th, 2009 at 17:52
@Grognard: That is a good article and I agree whole heart with it, if the money is noe being out laid on players then it should go cack to the fans, as usual we get nothing.
Season tickets have YET again gone up this season, like we all expected it to but nobody thought we would get the windfall we have, we all expected Ronaldo to go but not for £80m or £80m cash posibley over at least 4 years, they turn away an average of 5000 fans per game and they know they can to a degree charge what the hell they like.
Chelsea, Arsenal and Wigan have announced price freezes for next season, while Bolton, Manchester City, West Ham, Sunderland, Everton and Blackburn have confirmed they are cutting prices, how is that fair we are in a reccession and the real true fan on the street is being RAPED for more cash to pay off the loan, we are treating loke cash cows for them and and to me it is blatant exploitation.
July 16th, 2009 at 17:55
@Traverse: Sounds like a get out of jail card for them and they have done nothing to earn it. All the more reason why they have no businees stealing that 80 million that we should be putting back into players.
July 16th, 2009 at 17:56
@Grognard: I agree mate I must say, it will be intersting to see his stance on Nani early on, if he plays him from the outset then great, but if not then maybe Young or Drenthe should have been bought because the jury is out on Tosic, Obertan for me is a punt somewhat and will need time at best, and please not Rooney out wide.
July 16th, 2009 at 17:59
@Anthony Los: Exactly. These inflationary cycles don’t repair themselves in a year. It makes several years and expect the prices for high end player sot sky rocket yet again after next year’s World Cup. Fergie cannot be so naive to not know this but yet, he seems to be acting like that. Bottom line is he has let all of us down, even those who have such blind faith in him. He’s human and he does make mistakes. And this year may end being his biggest. If I’m wrong fine, I make my share of mistakes and I will fess up to them, but somehow this time, I don’t think I’m wrong. Time will tell.
July 16th, 2009 at 18:02
@Julio: You can call any player anything you want mate. What is forbidden on this site is calling each other names. Christ, I have called players and managers far worse names than that and frankly it’s my right and privilege to do so in a free speaking society. They are not immune to insults or cat calls. They get paid millions to perform and when they don’t they will hear the insults. Get real mate,
July 16th, 2009 at 18:05
@Liam: I think Young is overrated too but I also think he is better than you think. Villa’s small squad puts a lot of wear and tear on all their starters and Young played world class football last year in the first half before wearing down due to fatigue in the second half. With our depth, he would stay a lot fresher for much longer. He’s known for providing great service into forwards and our forwards will need that service if they are to make up the goals we have lost.
July 16th, 2009 at 18:07
@Grognard: I cited Arsenal not to match their ambitions but in fact I wrote that the lower bound of our club’s ambitions should be what Arsenal right now are. I wrote that to allay your fears that we might finish out side top four and since I expect Arsenal to finish fourth again,I’m sure we’ll be fighting for a top 2 finish.
Also to quote a line from the movie Top Gun “There are no points for second place”.
I’m keen to see how Fabio will pan out, I would like Fergie to give him some game time at least on the left mid. The 50 odd minutes that he played against Spurs was enough to convince me that he is top talent who has better allround game than Rafael.
July 16th, 2009 at 18:08
@Cyclops-Red: The fact that we never put the gun to Real’s head and demanded a player or two back as well as say 60 million will always bother me. They were so desperate to get him that we should have been a lot smarter and Savvy. Bare minimum we should have taken them for 60 million and taken Huntelaar and Sneijder off their hands.
July 16th, 2009 at 18:10
@Anthony Los: And lets not forget, I do not think Villa is that great up front so I think his assist totals would drastically increase with us. Rooney, Berba and Owen are a big upgrade over Villa’s strike force.
July 16th, 2009 at 18:12
@Scorp: It would be better to play him in his more comfortable position of left back, Evra’s form after the league cup final was poor and he might be able to force his way into the first team that way, I would rather us play Nani and have a look at Tosic and Obertan rather play another right footer who is a left back in midfield, if that makes sense!
July 16th, 2009 at 18:12
@jamie lee: Tactics had everything to do with the loss. We never went out to win that game but we went out to try not to lose it. That mentality alone is a recipe to failure. No way in Hell do I sit down a Berbatov or a Tevez in Champions League final and play a Park and Anderson instead of them. Fine just Park for Tevez or Berba would have made things seem different and given the boys a little bit more courage and more options up front.
July 16th, 2009 at 18:16
@gator: Unlike Michael Caine, I tolerate the Dutch. It’s the Italians I can’t tolerate.
July 16th, 2009 at 18:17
@Stephen: I meant in the pre-season mate,to just give him some game time, to make him feel comfortable in the squad. I read some where that he is a shy lad,an introvert and would take more time to gel with the other guys in the dressing room as opposed to Rafael who is just dynamic as he showed us this time last year in his first match, he is not scared of a big occasion.
July 16th, 2009 at 18:18
@Stephen: They offer us an inferior product and increase the price of tickets. In my business experience that is a recipe for failure. Are United fans that stupid or is it they need United like a drug addict needs a fix? Unable to resist even if they want to and even if they are insulted to their faces.
July 16th, 2009 at 18:18
@Scorp: Wouldn’t it be better playing him then in his natural position rather than one alien to him?
July 16th, 2009 at 18:19
@Stephen: Drenthe would have been an outstanding signing as he is versatile like Zhirkov and can play LB, LWB LMF and LW.
July 16th, 2009 at 18:22
@Grognard: Also tickets purchased last year should be reduced because of the mid-season cut in VAT has effectively meant supporters have felt no benefit, other than with their cup purchases which is another rip off, the Glazers are abusing the fact that they are in a monopoly position which in turn is taking advantage of the fan on the street.
July 16th, 2009 at 18:23
@Scorp: Right now nobody is going to convince me we are better than both Chelsea and liverpool. Are we better than Arsenal? Not if Rosicky comes back healty and they get Huntelaar. They to have a suspect midfield and their back four and goal keeping is suspect but players like Arshavin, Fabregas, Nasri and Huntelaar are all world class. And they should score goals like they are going out of style while we struggle to get goals due to inadequate service. If we were to get Young then perhaps we could nip in for third. Man, Ronaldo is so irreplaceable, we should never had allowed him to go without a great and expensive contingency plan. We are royally screwed.
July 16th, 2009 at 18:25
@Stephen: It’s your typical unethical and sleazy American business model. The Glazer’s are royal cunts. I fucking hate the bastards.
July 16th, 2009 at 18:32
@Stephen: he did play at left mid in the reserves right. I agree he has to play left back and push Evra for that slot,thats his natural position.There was no competition for left-back last season.
July 16th, 2009 at 18:46
@Grognard: I definitely think we have a better squad than Arsenal. We have a better defense,a better goal keeper, a better mid-field bar Cesc, we have a better attack with Rooney,Berba and Owen. Arshavin is better than any of our wingers, I’ll give Arsenal that. Also there is a big if regarding Huntelaar’s transfer and it is going to be his first season.
We have a better squad than Liverpool and Arsenal. Liverpool might have a better first team mid-field but they can’t play with that team for an entire season. We definitely have a better squad and that should help us.
July 16th, 2009 at 19:07
@Grognard:
When the odious Peter Kenyon offerred Beckham to Madrid for a paltry £25m the normally strait laced Perez rolled around with laughter in disbelief. He even tried to negotiate the price down. This image still haunts and irks me.
July 16th, 2009 at 19:25
To Madschester United
You don’t come to manchester United and not have high expectations of you. Anderson has not scored a goal in TWO years, he only runs at full pace with the ball, and has proved incapable of dictating the tempo of a game. I like Nani, I was just illustrating the point that Man Utd have no seasoned goalscorer from the middle of the park.
Aguero may not be Ronaldo 2.0, but he clearly has all the attributes to become one of the top players in the world. And if we are so eager to demand 80 million for our best player (who happened to be the best player in the world), we cannot consider 40 million for a mecurial talent, who actually wants to play for us, and has all the potential to develop into the best player in world football too much. If the money were coming out of pocket, then yes, I’d be on the side of caution. But i rather we invest that money in a player than handing it over so willingly to the glazers as seemed to have happened.
SAF says he doesnt want to overspend, yet layed out 18 million on a player not worth more than 12, if that. He lied to the fans, yet again, in saying we reinvest the money in the team. The squad is overrated. We struggled for goals last season and struggled against teams Liverpool were mopping the floor with in the latter part of the season. When teams went at our defence we often crumbled and lucked out that many strikers in the EPL are poor finishers. Are we a crap team? Of course not, but we’re not as good as we think.
Many people thought Ronaldo would develop into a great player, maybe not this great, but an excellent player nonetheless. He was on the radar of every major team in europe, so it’s not as though he was an unknown quantity. Teams had been scouting him for years and Obertan from what i’ve seen is decent, but no Ronaldo in the making. And let’s not forget, for every Ronaldo, there has been a djemba.
So I’m not being gloomy, I’m looking back at the past season and making my judgment from that. I HOPE i’m wrong and I am a fan of the team no matter what happens, but i am not one for empty optimism.
July 16th, 2009 at 19:51
If we ended the summer signing a mid who is more aggressive and faster than carrick i would be happy because we have the right blend of good vision/passing in carrick and good pace and power in who ever that wld be
any good and realistic suggestions????
July 16th, 2009 at 20:15
@Grognard: It is available for players. Fergie doesn’t want to spend it. Well, he does, but not as much as the other clubs are asking. If the Glazers have said to Fergie that he could have it to spend, we would bloody well know about it by now, because he’d have resigned. I’m sure Fergie made it very clear he would only sanction the Ronaldo transfer if he was given the money to invest. We already tried to spend £30mil on Benzema…. so the money is there.
July 16th, 2009 at 20:33
*couldn’t
July 16th, 2009 at 20:53
Good Ron-ron!
July 16th, 2009 at 20:55
@Traverse: Im with you on that. I think that fergi just doesnt want to shoot his wad(100+mil) now when teams are jacking the price. He has the luxury of using this season to see good or see off some of our youth and will be the last yr for his golden oldies. and next yr he will have the cash (125+mil) to “rebuild” the team one last time.
I think it is a wise decision. Truthfully he has lucked into it and gets one more chance to make a whole new team. that amount of money can buy a great team if he spends wisely.
though i hold reservations about the glazers and the debt i have to think that fergi would have left if the money were gone to interest payments. I think that this means that we will get to enjoy a good few mor years of SAF at united. if the glazers were dismantling his team in his supposed last two years then i would bet on him leaving. with this cash he sees an opportunity to have one more go at building a team.
I for one cant wait for this season to see who will make the cut ando, nani, welly, kiko,evans, the twins, valincia and oberton ect… all have a chance to save us some money at their positions and as we see the swansong of nevil,vds,gigs, and scholes you know that we will splash cash on class next yr where needed.
I would love to see aguero and silva right now but not at the expense of nani and roony.
July 16th, 2009 at 20:56
One argie I still love!
Fancy him?
July 16th, 2009 at 21:04
@NicoQB: Yea i fancy him, i find his facial hair turns me on.
Oh, you meant fancy him as a player! Well, over the years i think its fair to say fergie doesnt buy the same player twice, much like me and having me time with another women but thats another story
I dont want him, the only mid fielders i want at united are de rossi or cana. If it isnt any of these two i dont want them.
Fergie wouldnt buy him back anyway.
July 16th, 2009 at 21:20
@Dan: funny how footballers are always compared to women! It seems many of them are likely to fuck you over, but you still love them!
I know there’s next to nought xchance of him coming back, but by god he’s a classy player when he plays well.
I divived about both Cana and DeRossi – All aspects of Cana’s game are not held in high reagrd except for drive and tackling. Maybe just what we needed, but would we want a genuinely average player but for his steel? DeRossi is a bit the same stiry, except that I don’t know much about him except of his habit of missing crucial penalties!
No really, quality Defensive Midfield Generals are a rare breed nowadays…
July 16th, 2009 at 21:35
@NicoQB: How can you say de rossi is average if you “dont know much about him”
De rossi is a bloody god, and i would wank to my self dry if we ever got him! i generally prefer De rossi to essien, essien is one the best midfielders in the world, top 3 certainly, but something about him rubs me the wrong way, while de rossi rubs me, the right way
July 16th, 2009 at 21:41
@Dan: Ooooh!!! Rubs you the right way? How sexy!
July 16th, 2009 at 21:50
Shock Announcement
Grognard has positive thought:
Well I have to say that the more I read and the more i piece things together the more i am convinced that United will make a move for Ashley Young. Especially now that young has been quoted as saying he would prefer a move to United over rivals Chelsea. DUH! No shit Sherlock. Why would he want to go to Chelsea and compete with Zhirkov and Malouda.
If United indeed are going to make a move for Young, it was helped by the signing of Downing as his direct replacement. I could see United going for him and it would not surprise me if they traded a player or two. I would be upset by this but I also could see the possibility of Villa getting Nani in return or some other player or possibly getting a player like Welbeck or Macheda on loan. We shall see. Nevertheless, I have sneaky suspicion this deal will happen before the season begins. United need a top player to service these forwards with crosses and passes. Young fits that bill perfectly. And if we were to go after this player or Hernanes, I would definitely call of the dogs although I still think the summer spending would not be adequate.
July 16th, 2009 at 21:51
@Dan: I know it’s none of my business, but I must question your sexual orientation. Far too much references to the male organs/genitalia for my liking, lately.
July 16th, 2009 at 21:56
@Scorp: I think we are a better and more well rounded team but from an attacking point of view, we are not as good right now as Arsenal. Yes our keeper and our defense is superior but as long as a team has an Arshavin and Fabregas as well as a Rosicky, Nasri etc, they will be able to provide service to the strikers as well as score themselves.
Face it, they have more world class players than us at the skill positions. And if they indeed get Huntelaar, then they will be awesome offensively. I still think that van Persie, Eduardo and Bendtner are a pretty good strike force. Their Achilles heel is their CB’s and their totally useless goalkeeper who I rate as the worst keeper in Europe. Honestly, I think he is that bad. The good thing for Arsenal though is their attack can help hide some of their defensive deficiencies and they will not struggle for goals. Now if we were to get Ashley Young like the rumors suggest, then yes, I would pick us for third, but no way do I see us finishing first after losing Ronaldo and Tevez.
July 16th, 2009 at 22:03
@Cyclops-Red: The Beckham thing will always be a blackmark in my books and it was the first time I questioned Fergie. He let his personal feelings and biases literally force out a player who was great for us and who bled for the team. I couldn’t care less about his wife and his personal life. As I saw it, it never interfered with his professionalism and desire to play the game.
And before Beckham I had to swallow the fact that Fergie admittedly blundered by letting go of Jaap Stam. After Beckham he got into it with Roy Keane, another big mistake considering how important Keane was to us as a leader, and the final straw was his terrible treatment of van Nistelrooy after RVN had a training ground argument with perfect and never in trouble Ronaldo. He had to embarrass RVN and bench him for the Carling Cup final and thne played head games with him until he virtually gave him to Real. Tough shite to tolerate. Fergie has his favorites and they seem to be able to get away with murder and then he has hid doghouse gang which can’t seem to get a fair shale from him. Although I personally wanted Tevez gone because he is not good enough, I do believe him over Fergie. I just wished he would just shut up about it and move on. Fergie says he texted him many times. I doubt Fergie even has a Blackberry and knows how to use it yet alone text anyone.. Old codgers are not into modern forms of communication. I think he is full of it.
July 16th, 2009 at 22:09
@Roge9: Beautiful mate, just beautiful. If I was in the same room with you I would give you a big kiss and a hug and I’m not even gay. You said it beautifully. It amazes me how not too many can see things from our point of view. What we are saying is not intended to be gloomy, it’s intended as a realistic analysis of the situation. It is looking gloomy and what i hate is the misinformation and lies that are being fed to us like we are all naive little pillocks with shite for brains.
I don’t buy that crap they are feeding and your reasoning over why would should go for Aguero is dead on. Fergie is a massive hypocrite. He is most responsible for elevating the prices in the current market. So before he condemns everyone for that, he should look himself in the mirror. A classic case of the pot calling the kettle black I think.
July 16th, 2009 at 22:11
@Anthony Los: That central midfield position is the one position more than anything else that I wanted addressed this summer. We have no defensive grit and pace and no play maker who can score the odd goal and service our forwards. It’s recipe to disaster having to live with another season of the slow footed Carrick being teamed up with the average Fletcher, the old and slowing Scholes and Giggs and the way to useless Anderson.
July 16th, 2009 at 22:14
@Traverse: You know nothing about what goes on behind the closed doors at Old Trafford mate. You have no idea what exactly has happened to the money because United do not feel any of us are obligated to know. We may have the money for players but Fergie has gone cheap and senile or the glazer’s have indeed pocketed and plan to use it for their debt payment. None of us are privy to that information so all we can do is speculate based on the little evidence at hand.
July 16th, 2009 at 22:16
@gator: No player that comes here will ever jeopardize Rooney’s role in the team. As for Nani, hell, Park is higher up the ladder than him right now. Aguero coming would not hurt either player.
July 16th, 2009 at 22:20
@Dan: De Rossi is a great player but unfortunately he is not interested in a move to England and Fergie doesn’t know he exists. And I would personally love a shock move for Veron although I know that wouldn’t happen. The way we play now would finally be the perfect fit for him where back when he first arrived, we played fast wide old school English football. Veron is far more awesome with continental Italian style of play and pace. He was a classy player and the kind of play maker we are real need of.
July 16th, 2009 at 22:31
Villa got Downing. My mind, hope and belief now goes to the fact that United will buy Ashley Young. Oh please Fergie, please! I beg you. If you get Ashely Young the things Ill do will make Dans thoughts about De Rossi look like the most heterosexual thoughts in the whole universe!
July 16th, 2009 at 22:32
Buy Ashley Young!
July 16th, 2009 at 22:32
Please Fergie, buy Ashley Young!
July 16th, 2009 at 22:33
Please, oh please Merciful lord, make thy apprentice Sir Alex Ferguson concetrate on buying Ashley Young!!!
July 16th, 2009 at 22:45
@Grognard: And neither do you! If your entire argument is ‘you don’t know what’s going on’, then you don’t either!
Fergie has given us the evidence…. He is still the manager, he bid £30mil for Benzema.
July 16th, 2009 at 22:50
@RedDevilEddy:
Where’ve you been?
July 16th, 2009 at 22:55
@Grognard: grog, where did ash say he prefers united?
is the source reliable?
cheers
July 16th, 2009 at 22:57
@Cyclops-Red: Ive been out with a couple of my friends as well as just chilling by the beach. Will be leaving for holidays soon, but wanna finish my Aguero vid first.
July 16th, 2009 at 23:01
@Red Ranter:
July 16th, 2009 at 23:43
who is the most likely person to join man utd this summer?
July 17th, 2009 at 0:06
@Grognard: with berba and ron in the team he was sacrificed to the left last season. and i think that aguero is so class that one of them will be wasted on the wing.
Grog You have probably seen aguero more than i recently. would he be wasted wide? I just see him as a like 4 like with ronny but preferring the second striker role. i think we may give our youngsters a chance to be great then spend (this years cash, the 80, and next yrs cash= abt 125-140) on a new look including aguero and …?…
young would be nice, dont give them nani though. give them oberton or loan them someone
July 17th, 2009 at 0:10
I would love to get CQ back as well after/when they fail in the world cup.
Iknow he traded us off TWICE but i think he is worth a go and tell him he can have a yr or two guaranteed when fergi leaves. if he doesnt produce bounce his ass. but we could have used him in fergis ear in rome might not have helped but i dont think Phlem is helping at all.
July 17th, 2009 at 0:12
I think we have class players that let ronaldo do everything because he could. and if given a push and made to perform w/o him they will. if not we can replace them but i think we should give them a chance.
July 17th, 2009 at 0:18
@Anthony Los: … “The Invisible Man”
July 17th, 2009 at 0:24
@Redrich: haha i hope not
July 17th, 2009 at 0:27
@Traverse: We made a last ditch, half hearted attempt at a player that had no intention of playing for us!!
In a sense we did the same with Tevez, knowing full well he’d already made up his mind. (cunt that he is!!)
It’s clearly a show for us peons to absorb ourselves in and was never meant as a move that had any intent to secure him!!
July 17th, 2009 at 0:31
@Traverse: I didn’t say I knew what was going on. I did say that hypothesis on everything is based on the evidence at hand and common sense speculation. So stop putting words in my mouth and accusing me of something I’m not guilty of.
July 17th, 2009 at 0:34
@gator: I see our situation now as being near identical to the one in 2006/07 season. That season the players stepped up and whilst i cant say im exactly pleased with the squad we have right now i do have faith that they too will do a job because for me we have a better team now than we did in 06/07.
If the players like berbatov, nani and anderson do not step up then they we have to say sorry and goodbye and replace them. For me i think this year will definitely be a transitional season but i see next season involving a possible complete clear out. Lets say we expect schols, neville and edwin to definitely retire next season, with the likes of the 3 i mentioned above with hargreaves on what you might call their last strike which you could say a final season of unimpressive displays could result in them being sent packing.
Thats about 7 possible players we could see on their way out next season and they will need to be replaced or the youngsters we have will step up replace them. This for me is why we arent buying much this season, give the fosters, tosics, nanis, andos, their chance and see how they do, if they dont produce then we know we need more players coming in. Saving money with next season in mind isnt the best thing to do imo but thats what i feel they are doing assuming the money has been saved and not spent on debts. Next season could prove to be more crucial than this one, and fergie will look with next season in mind like a good manager will do, that for me is my only explanation as to why we arent spending big this season. Hopefully the youngsters can perform cos they could save us a hell of a lot of dough.
July 17th, 2009 at 0:36
@Anthony Los: The usual iffy suspects like Tribal Football and Goal.
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/manchester_united/s/1126426_uniteds_100m_question
July 17th, 2009 at 0:36
@gator: Rooney played out wide at the end of the year for a few games. What about the rest of the season? Hardly sacrificed, was he? We played 4-4-2 last year consistently, except for the big games where we went from negative, unambitious 4-4-2 to ultra-negative 4-5-1. Rooney played up front all season, with berbatov as a strike partner and ronaldo on the right side of midfield. Sure, ronaldo is granted freedom from that position, but park and the centre midfield were the equalizers for that. The idea that rooney had to play out wide to accomodate ronaldo, or that he had to track back to cover for ronnie, is bullshit.
July 17th, 2009 at 0:36
@Matt: agree
July 17th, 2009 at 0:36
@Grognard: That’s right mate, it’s “circumstantial evidence”. Which in my book, rates better than pure fantasy!!
July 17th, 2009 at 0:38
fucking teves hahaha
anyone see this, better yet anyone BELIEVE THIS
July 17th, 2009 at 0:46
@gator: Yeah, they offered to make he “ball boy”.
You remember when he made that tackle with his head?? ……. well, …..???
July 17th, 2009 at 0:49
@Redrich: the boy should shut the fuck up and be happy someone is paying him. if he keeps this up he will eventually have to produce something.
July 17th, 2009 at 0:56
@gator: I know, but he’s such a fucking money pit too.
The dough West Ham paid him, and had to pay Sheffield Utd, what we paid him and that little jerk, handler he has, and now what Citeh has forked out.
The little cunt should be traded on the stock market!!
July 17th, 2009 at 1:02
@Grognard: Wouldn’t common sense dictate that we have the money to spend and were prepared to spend on tevez and benzema, rather than us going in for these players because we knew they would not be signing in an attempt to give the impression that the money was there and fergie was genuinely trying to bring high-value players in while the money went straight in the glazers’ pockets and we had no real intention of making more signings?
July 17th, 2009 at 1:02
@Grognard: What evidence are you basing your revelations on? I’m basing mine on the evidence that the manager has been bidding on players (£30mil Benzema, his own words), the press release from the Glazers saying the £80mil is all Fergie’s about 2 days after we sold him… the first time that ‘MUST’ supporters group started this nonsense.
I’d be quite happy to accept what you are saying, if there were any grain of truth or evidence in it, and I’ve seen nothing to suggest there is.
July 17th, 2009 at 1:24
@tevez: Rooney needs to play along side a big target guy. With the focus taken off of him by one or both of the central defenders, Rooney will just take the scraps and end up with 20+ every year!!
July 17th, 2009 at 1:27
good article red ranter!
why is fergie npt looking at wesley snejider he’s in his mid 20’s about to come into the peak of his career! he is a very good creative midfielder who is willing to put %110 effort in and would also chip in with a nice amount of goals from open play and set pieces! he can play across the whole of midfield which we all no sir alex apreciates going off the praise he had for o’shea today! he would also come at a reasonable price as he is surplus to requirements at madrid! i would also love to see us bring in douglas costa at the right price as i think he would be the idol replacement for ronaldo EVENTUALLY and would also fit in with some of are future stars as we have a number of players from his homeland such as rafael fabio possebon dodo and anderson! he is also at the right age where he can grow with the current crop of future united stars nani, macheda, petrucci, masscari tosic, ljajic, gibson, wellbeck, evans, evandro brandao, cleverly, rhys brown, corey evans and morrison!
July 17th, 2009 at 2:35
@gator: No it’s true. Real were looking to fill the position of dressing room and latrine custodian but in the end Tevez was under qualified.
July 17th, 2009 at 2:37
@Redrich: I feel the best type of player rooney could play with would be someone who stays right on the shoulder of the last defender, with pace and intelligent and well-timed runs. With a player like that stretching the defense, a bigger gap is created between the opposition midfield and defense for rooney to exploit. He would find himself with more time and space, and the other attacker gives him a great option for a killer pass. I would also encourage runners from midfield, using two wide men who are willing runners from deep with good, penetrative movement. This would give rooney plenty of options and the opportunity to really put that superior footballing brain of his to good use.
I also feel this would be a better player for him to play with now than a van nistelrooy type player. As i see it, rooney, although still possessing plenty of pace, has lost part of the explosive spark in his game. He is not as positive and direct as he once was and i no longer see him running at and beating players like he could do when he was younger and when his partnership with van nistelrooy was at it’s peak. His footballing brain is as good as ever, but for me he can’t near-single-handedly carry the burden anymore when it comes to taking defenders out of the game. He won’t be as effective with a player who is only interested in putting the finishing touches on an attack.
July 17th, 2009 at 2:38
@tevez: Thats what I said last week. Fergie is not stupid. He knew he zero chance of signing either player so he put offers out there to make it look like we were ambitious but he knew these were two players that would never sign for us for different reason. We have been conned for quite a while now which explains why Fergie is always attracted to players who are not attracted to United but are to Madrid. This way he can talk the talk but not have to walk the walk.
July 17th, 2009 at 2:46
@Traverse: God you seem to want to believe everything you read and everything that comes out of OT like it’s some kind of gospel. Learn to read between the lines mate. Analyze events and look at all the angles. My previous reply to tevez explains what I feel was going on with both Benzema and Carlos Tevez. United and it’s hierarchy are master manipulators and they are a very unscrupulous and unethical corporate entity in regards to the way they deal with the fans who pay out all the money.
As for evidence, I have given many examples over things I have read and observed for days now and I’m not about to go back and start copying and pasting. If you are so interested, then go back and read all my entries. Frankly I am tired of this whole summer transfer season and I’m tired of United lying to us through their teeth. Christ, you don’t have to believe mate. Just go with the status quo and buy into all the BS being fed to you. What do I know? I’m just offering my opinion on things whether I am right or wrong. That’s for you to judge. Based on your faith and trust in the corporation, I know where I stand so I don’t really feel like fighting a losing battle because I have better things to do. So just ignore what i have to say if you don’t care for it or don’t agree with it. I have debated this thing for days now at great length and to frank, I’m fed up with it.
July 17th, 2009 at 2:47
@Redrich: I believe that requires a Huntelaar.
July 17th, 2009 at 2:48
@tevez: When Rooney is marked, he has a hard time taking on and beating a big defender, he is often forced to the outside! But when he seizes upon the the loose ball, he’s deadly. IMO one of the best in the game today!
July 17th, 2009 at 2:49
@Grognard: You misunderstood what i said. Do you really think we are going to a lot of trouble to make it appear that we are ambitious when we aren’t? That we put in bids for players because we knew they would come to nothing? It just seems a bit fantastical. Don’t you think it is more realistic and likely that we put in bids for these players because we were genuinely interested in signing them? And therefore the money is available?
July 17th, 2009 at 3:00
@Grognard: Well yeah, him or even Eto’o would do the trick for Rooney! I wonder how long it’s gonna take for him to figure out his career is stifled here. Then he’ll be off to Madrid too.
I think I’m seeing a pattern here!!
July 17th, 2009 at 3:10
@Redrich: To be honest, against an organised team even if he played with another striker who would play right up against the defenders and occupy the centre halves, he would still have to escape the shackles of an anchoring midfield player. So whether he played right up front on his own, with another player or dropped off of another player, he will be marked against any worthwhile opponents. He will always be marked, and it is up to him to lose his man. Or did i just completely misunderstand your point?
July 17th, 2009 at 3:11
@Grognard: I agree with you Grogs, you make a good good point. If prices are inflated by Real Madrid’s slurge, they will be next year in a World Cup summer. But I guess they will have to assess the situation and spend money then.
I don’t understand the sentiment Europeans make about debt, the club is leveraged. I mean you guys forget that the club is fully private. Only the Liability and Glazer Equity. It is a principle in business(at least in American philosophy) to have some leveraging to better manage exposure to risk, so as long as the debt is serviced well its really fine.
I was really unhappy when the Glazer took over because at that point Manchester United was a good public firm with no long-term debt, so if we needed the money we can easily leverage to expand. The Glazers however seem to be shrewd enough. They have expanded the stadium, and left the football management to the best manager I will see in my lifetime(Fergie if I must spell it out). But the British culture does not understand the leveraging, and still can’t grasp the fact that Manchester United is corporation and a brand and it functions as capitalist entity. The fans are a market loved only to the extent that they generate revenue and profit and remain loyal.
July 17th, 2009 at 3:32
@tevez: My point is, that Rooney is not a big guy, a strong guy, yes. When he is playing as the lead striker he does not have the bulk to beat a central defender and thus his whipper-snap reactions do not have the opportunity to flourish. If he can pick up the ball and run toward goal, or if he is offered the half chance in the box, he is second to none!!
July 17th, 2009 at 3:42
@Abu: I guess most of us fans could give a flyer about that mate. Your points are well taken, but when you watch a United game, are you really weighing up the profits, the losses, and whether they have an appropriate amount of leverage with their debt??
Most of us just want to see them win the game, because after it’s a game and it takes us away from all that stuff!!
July 17th, 2009 at 4:14
@Redrich: Yeah you are right Red, but its picking up. I mean If you go to the Newcastle webpage on http://www.4thegame.com(my main site for PL news, gossip and stats) all you see is takeover speculation. The boardroom and the business aspect is slowly becoming a spectacle in itself….AND I like watching. I support Man Utd not only because they are a good team to watch but for the culture instilled. I like Fergie’s no non-sense we don’t let 24 year old prima donnas tell us how to do business. I like the structural nature of his squad, where Arsenal are sophisticated artists, we are gritty soldiers. I like hearing a stadium expansion is in the works. I love knowing AON Financial is giving us a shitload of their advertising dollars. its just as exciting as Berbatov’s spin in the box last season, or Ronaldo’s back heel flick nutmeg the season before. I don’t play FIFA or Pro Evolution Soccer anymore, i retired….to Football Manager.
July 17th, 2009 at 4:29
@Abu: OK!. but you are truly apart from me on this point. If we are now to discuss the ins and outs of United’s financial dealings and not the pertinent aspects of transfers, team selection, tactics, player performance, player behavior, I just don’t think I’d give a hoot to post commens here.
This is an escape, and not a necessity, and the more that it doesn’t remind of the former, the less I see it as the latter!!
July 17th, 2009 at 4:47
@Redrich: I’m an MBA and I don’t work so this is my job! lol
July 17th, 2009 at 4:53
@tevez: Possible but I’m a conspiracy freak.
Seriously though mate, I have worked with corporations and with government for many years and I have seen things you wouldn’t believe. Nothing would surprise me because I have seen far worse.
July 17th, 2009 at 4:58
@Abu: Sounds pretty cold doesn’t it? But it’s 100% true. Brits have a hard time wrapping their minds around the American business model. Rule number of of American business, use the pyramid system. Rule two, never use your own money, and third, never reward your customers more than you have to.
July 17th, 2009 at 5:14
I think Owen and Macheda can both contribute 10 goals a pop, Berbatov can reach 20 with more playing time, and Rooney is good for 25.
The good news is the airtight defense has been kept in tack, the bad news is the wheels came off a sputtering offense
July 17th, 2009 at 6:14
United team were to stay at the Ritz, target of Indonesian bombing: Click Throws the Indonesian leg of tour in doubt.
July 17th, 2009 at 7:44
@Elliott: I think Rooney can score 40 goals and Berbatov can score 35 and Macheda and Welbeck can contribute 15 each and Owen will get 20. I think I think I think.
Sorry mate but your predictions are hilarious because they are so far from the possible. Macheda will not play enough to get 10 goals, and why would Berbatov score 20 goals when he struggled so last year? Rooney could get 25 goals in all competitions but I really believe that we should expect 25 from Rooney 15 from Berbatov, 12 from Owen and 4 from Macheda and Welbeck each. That’s 60 goals in all competitions. Bring that down to 35 to 40 for just the EPL. I would be willing to increase their totals if we were to get a player like Ashley Young who could provide great service. Then I would add 12 goals to that EPL total. I just think everyone is just to optimistic and I don’t know why because we have made no improvements to the midfield and last year they hardly scored any goals and are not great at servicing the forwards on a consistent level. So why should i believe that all of a sudden a magic wand is going to turn our midfield into Xvi and Iniesta and our forwards all go crazy? It’s madness. We’re just not that good.
July 17th, 2009 at 8:29
@Grognard: Grog Bro… Don’t consider me as one of those who say with some sort of blind faith that ‘In SAF we Trust’ and all. I am definitely not one of those…
I mean see i am a sports man in my own life. Don’t know weather you know about CRICKET or not but being an India i played lot of it at different levels of competitions before coming into Finance Sector. So, i always believe that you as good as you were in your last match…
And last match we all know what happened… Terrible display…
So, i won’t say i am believe in gaffer and all. By now, you must have realized that i don’t give lot importance to past records and cold evidence as well. So, please just because i am having what i can say a healthy conversation don’t generalized me into category of those muppets….
Anyway, i think we can move on with this point now… As we can agree to disagree on this isn’t it???
But, one thing i promise bro that if there is revolt against the Glazers in Man UTD i will the first one to do what ever i can to kick them out…
By the way, i was kinda confused with this Abu DHABI consortium i mean they own Man Shitty now they are doing Pompey I mean don’t you think it can be a case Conflict of Interest.. I mean if both of them are owned by the same group of people then who can guarantee the results if there matches..
I mean think of the hypothetical scenario if on last day of the season Shitty needs a win to qualify for europe (which won’t happen but still) and they are playing Pompey then Shitty wins. Can any one guarantee that result was a fair play..
I mean IF its the same group then don’t you think they should not be allowed as its clear case of conflict of interest…
July 17th, 2009 at 10:20
We have signed a Senegalese striker from Norway
July 17th, 2009 at 10:34
@Scorp: yeah – http://tinyurl.com/mdiouf
July 17th, 2009 at 10:51
@fuzzy: His last name scares me
. Hopefully not going down the Manucho road again.
July 17th, 2009 at 21:04
@Grognard: glad u agree mate, it should of been a different story all together, fergie just doesnt trust his players in europe, sad really!@Grognard:
July 20th, 2009 at 8:07
July 22nd, 2009 at 4:20
@Grognard. Hey you say this and that about american business methods, i too have worked with multi million pound corps from there and etc and yes it is a dirty business, but i can’t fully agree with yor claim.
Perhaps the Glazers are different and like your describing due to their cultural reasons or own developed methods however for the most part i find americans to be somewhat theatrical in business.
Imagine if you will a balloon – that is them. they inflate something to look like it is the best thing in the world, sure they will add the latest bells and whistles but on the inside it may be hollow.
I doubt they can do that to our beloved club though, for 1 us the fans wouldnt allow it and secondly with all these arab investors in the epl they can’t inflate and pop the balloon because they would not be allowed to inflate for starters. Also the glazers being of jewish ancestry makes their competition with arabs all the more competative i should imagine.
I want to believe i can trust SAF and hell even the Glazers not to let the club down and buy one class player before the window closes due to past records.
Look at all the windows of late, rooney very late buy, berba very very late one, bitch tevez again later and later.
My point is the tension is the glazers and SAF theatre trick, last second buys make the fans excited, it makes opposition under estimate, it adds competition in team, and sell shirts!
About SAF retirement plans for future i say bring in cantona as fergie’s understudy. but this little devil in me says ole might already be he’s understudy! super sub to super boss??? more shocking things have happened i.e owen!! lol
About the team, omg fletcher suprises me sometimes yes, but i think he is the weakest player in our reguler set of players he reminds me of a duck playing like crouch. whenever he get the ball i know 9/10 he will be disposessed.
As for nani and ando, ando will improve this season in big way, but nani needs to really work hard and stop thinking he can do what ronny can, and stop being greedy.
Up front we do not need anyone i think, as i want to see kiko break in to our set of strikers, but wellbeck needs to build he’s strengh as i find him too weak to compete on regular bases.
The biggest concern for me is VDS, he is going to retire and honestly he’s age showed in second half of league last season. i do not trust foster to be no.1 as i see him like carrol or howard, he will have one good season and after a small slip up just fail. that will cause our defence to get nervous and make mistakes through lack of trust.
but none the less lets see what happens, its not over untill its over!!!!!!
P.S. for all those saying wannabe city is a danger, please! they lost their friendly by 2 plus look at real all that money and still fails to dominate! same with chelsea renieri spent spent spent and still done nothing! our major competitors are easily chelsea, liverpool and probably a underdog like villa or everton!
July 29th, 2009 at 14:10
Ronaldo is a good player but he is not the best as Manchester United was set the main priority on him tactically….
Next season, Rooney definetly will dominate EPL and even the world football…
I bet Rooney will be world footballer one days…
It is true that manchester united always buy player with expensive price because everybodys think that MU was rich…. It is good for ferguson not do the stupid trading like Chelsea and Mnachester City…..
Bravo Ferguson!