Mar 17
Few Thoughts on the Derby Win
This wouldn’t be a full fledged match report like the ones in the past; I couldn’t quite recover from the flu that kept me down, hence the lack of a report on Sunday. I did watch the match though, and since plenty has already been talked about in the comments, I will keep this short.
United moved top of the table after the win over Derby, and stayed there courtesy Arsenal’s inability to beat Middlesborough and goal difference; the Gooners seem to be on a poor run in the league dropping eight points in their last four games. However the scoreline would have surprised many as everyone was braced for a massacre at Pride Park following a 6-1 thrashing at Stamford Bridge in midweek.
The Rams appeared rejuvenated and for a big part of the game appeared the better team. Anyway here are some thoughts I had about Saturday.
- United’s display wasn’t too encouraging. Well, we know it is the time when teams start tiring and relegation threatened sides start playing out of their skin, but over the past few games we are seeing a little slacking in the performance of certain players. Maybe it’s more a mental thing? I don’t know, but yesterday’s performance should serve as a cautionary tale for the games to come; Bolton have beaten us, and will fight for their lives, and Liverpool are the in-form team at the moment.
- The striking department has been a little profligate. Ronaldo was used as a striker and it may yet be another confirmation that Fergie believes he’s a better bet upfront than Saha. But then Saha’s injury situation and Tevez’s fatigue may have forced his hand. While it is positive of us to think that we are creating chances, it’s also galling to see the number of chances fluffed. It’s an affliction that’s proved to be Arsenal’s undoing in the past (and also Liverpool) and we would do well to take our chances to avoid slip-ups. The season will be decided against the lesser opposition and we must never take them lightly.
- We need Rio and Vidic at the centre. Allowing Derby to go one-on-one with the keeper, twice, is unforgivable if we have Champions’ League and Premier League aspirations. A fast, attacking team, like Roma, could easily cause havoc if we don’t have both our first choice defenders. Rio and Vidic are the yin and yang. Rio’s pace, assurance on the ball and reading of the game complements the uncompromising nature of Vidic’s game, his aerial presence and crunching tackles. We need both of them at the centre, and while we got out of jail against Derby, we couldn’t be so lucky against half a decent opposition.
- Ben Foster’s debut. A great debut for the lad. I really feel so happy for him. He didn’t seem to show too many nerves, and those two saves he made would have done a lot for his confidence. Fergie had said earlier that he wasn’t too worried about having to field Foster in goal and he showed why he is among the more promising English ‘keepers — a dying breed, I can assure you. He may need a little working on his kicking, and while it will be status quo once EVDS returns, a start would have given the young ‘keeper belief to fight for a permanent starting place in the side in the future.
We still have a long way to go. This season will go quite some distance, and it will be a three-horse race, with Chelsea looking increasingly ominous and a bigger threat than Arsenal. So fasten your seat belts, it’s going to be one hell of a ride!
Related items from Red Rants:- Derby County v Man Utd: Preview
- Some More Thoughts Ahead of the Scouse Trip
- Rants Returns to Regular Service
- Man Utd vs Derby County: Preview
- Reds Warm Up for Anfield, With Derby Win
Tags: Match Reports
March 17th, 2008 at 7:57
foster is awesome…I have little doubt he will go on to become the no.1. moreover, his kicking and long throws are usually great too.
March 17th, 2008 at 8:00
if Liverpool get a good result against us on sunday it could well be a 4 horse race… I’m concerned at the moment that we aren’t taking our chances but I guesse everyones thae same. Bolton should be a succesful game because we make so many chances but… Liverpool is a completley different story and hopefully we can get 3 points but I would be happy with a draw due to there form… Hopefully Saha starts against Bolton and Giggs is left out of the Liverpool game. The Liverpool game will be about keeping possesion and while Giggs wasnt the only culprit for giving it away at the weekend he was indeed not good enough for this end of the season
March 17th, 2008 at 8:56
Happy with a draw against Liverpool at Old Trafford? Pleaseeee… With Fergie’s record against Benitez, we can expect a triumph.
Giggs should be used as an impact substitute as his intelligence and technique are still great but does not have the stamina to keep going for 90 minutes.
March 17th, 2008 at 8:57
My comments about Ronaldo: I have a theory that Ronaldo is the cause of Man Utd’s lack lustre display in front of goal. And as all theories go, they are usually wrong…
Did anyone remember at the start of the game, Scholes and Giggs had a couple of good chances from cutbacks from the right wing, but Ronaldo was not the provider with any of them? (Park and O’Shea were the ones that provided the crosses).
The problem I think with Ronaldo is that when he gets the ball, his first intention is usually to look for an opening for himself, rather than a quick pass to a team mate to get the ball moving. Most of the time, he is looking to beat the defender, and so holds up the ball too long. There were a couple of instances when he got the ball, and I saw Giggs, Rooney, Scholes, Saha flooding into the box but no cross came quickly enough. No wonder then that he had 7-8 chances compared to the main striker, Rooney, with only 1-2 chances.
Please, this is not a criticism of Ronaldo’s talent and ability, and neither am I saying that he NEVER passes or creates chances. I just think that in terms of decision-making in certain situations, he could have done better.
It was indeed a good debut by Foster. It’s the first time I saw him play and besides a few bad kicks, which I put down to early jitters, he looks really good. But then again, goalkeepers should be judged over a few seasons, so it’s still early days. (Anyone remember Tim Howard’s first season?)
March 17th, 2008 at 8:57
I don’t care how the Pool have been playing, we have the indian sign over them, and Rooney will be on fire that day for sure. Torres did nothing against us at Anfield, and if Rio and Vid are fit to play, he will be kept quiet. It could be another Arsenal cup score, how great would that be. We are due for a change of luck, and our chances must start to go in soon. Let’s hope it’s in these 3 home games coming up. The fans need to be in loud voice for these matches, to ROAR us home all the way now to our next premiership trophy win. Shame on us if we are outsung by the scousers. Fergie play without a strong holding midfield player in the L’pool game, and we will get done - sorry everyone but thats my opinion, we need a very strong midfield for the run in.
March 17th, 2008 at 9:00
dude are you serious, us be afraid of the scouse, you need to take a look at the note book lol.
March 17th, 2008 at 9:27
I don’t think mc is suggesting fear 4 the pile but more like logical respect.Lack of respect by the new Rotator caused a poor display by the team on saturday.And i agree a holding midfielder is needed vs pool and i think every other game.And it should be Hargo imo.Why coz he’s the best we have.And pliz a more consistent mid partnership.There’s no fatigue in mid coz the new Rotator has been changing the mid every week
March 17th, 2008 at 9:49
A lot of people seem 2 be vs Anderson now and i won’t be surprised if he becomes the new scapegoat.The culprit is Fergie and his tech team.UCL tactics are so negative and becoz the team is not built in the mould of chelsea or juventus the players are not used 2 ultra defensive tactics they don’t perform well.And yes as i have always said,ronnie is killing the strikers with his ULTRA HIGH selfishness and didn’t even bother 2 acknowledge rooney 4 assist.I watched his celebration closely.I just wish rooney would also be selfish and do a ronaldo “I’ll do it all myself thank u”.But we all knw he’s not built 4 selfishness
March 17th, 2008 at 10:19
Guys, don’t get carried away. Before the Derby game there were some 7-goal predictions on this blog and we all saw what happened (I’m not ashamed to say that I reached the ceiling at home when Ronaldo scored, something I don’t usually do). Assuming that we get past Bolton, which won’t be easy, the Liverpool game will be a lot different, since they’re on a high. Of course we shouldn’t be afraid of them or satisfied with a draw, but it won’t be a walk in the park either. I’d like to see Hargo and Carrick in midfield for the Liverpool game, but SAF knows better.
Also, is it my idea or was Rooney a better player after Saha entered the pitch against Derby?
March 17th, 2008 at 10:20
not you too RR? Liverpool are the in-form team my fkn arse…
March 17th, 2008 at 10:32
phew… quite a pressure i had that saturday afternoon. However to all SAF’s yes men i beg to diagree with you today. How do you play five people in the midfield against a team like Derby. No, no way thats un forvigable SAF.
Yet again this issue of playing Ronaldo as a half nine, i really see it not working. For the majority of the many goals the guy’s scored, he was playing on the wings. then why play him in the centre. Indeed only managed to score and play better when when Carrick and Saha came on for Scholes and Park meaning he had to switch to number Seven. All of you saw how dangerous the crosses he brought in were.
Lastly, i guest Redd75 has some gist in his point. Ever since Ronaldo started that high scoring, he no longer thinks about creating goals for the other fellas. this ofcourse depicted by a solitary three assists in all competitions. now thats alarming for a winger coz last season he had 19 assists in all competitions 16 coming in the league. He now a days gets a ball and instead of passing to someone in a scoring position, he prefers to pass to someone off the target who can in turn pass to him, for him to shoot.That aint bad but it denies the team more scoring opportunities and hence more goals. Pay attention to his play in the last third, you’ll concur with me.
Otherwise the boy still remains our key player and our ticking arm of the clock, yet more our heart beat.
Bring them on Bolton.
March 17th, 2008 at 11:51
seems lyk i am the only person who has some positives after the match, i’d accept those 1-0 wins from now on till the last fixture, its results like this that make the difference,rem beating fulham last season 2-1 though before the game everyone was overconfident that we will win, but we had to dig out for a result,,that game changed our season,,and watch this space, the 1nil against derby will prove to be a big diff when the day for judgment comes..
March 17th, 2008 at 11:54
Fuck Bolton!
Sunday is the day!!
We have those history retarded twats damn close !!!
One more step close to the magic number 18 titles !!!!
No more moronic chants abt the titles they have won !!!!!
Lets Rip the Scouse Bastards off !!!!!!!!!!!
(Anderson THE GOD !)
March 17th, 2008 at 11:56
It’s obvious that we still miss the last piece of the puzzle.I mean the tap-ins plus the simple-in-box finishing plus the aerial threat.I mean we miss the big lad in the box.We really miss something like Ruuuud or Adebayor (WHAT A PLAYER).
We didn’t keep Rossi with us and we re buying Tevez.We didn’t need a short shadow striker - playmaker cause we already had two of them (Rooney + Rossi -who by the way is a vital player for Villareal- ).But we made a great mistake , selling Rossi for Tevez and not for … I don’t know for who. That’s SAF’s job and he knows we can’t have Adebayor.
Although tevez scores crucial goals and is a very special dribbler-passer he is not the consistent threat.He also gets tired very easily.All his special things are the same in Rooney.Plus Rooney is a greater player cause of his physical powers.
Derby and teams-defenders like this-these shits should be a clear 4-0.AT LEAST.A big guy should help us.That’s my point.
Of course there’s a second disadvantage here. Rooney doesn’t offer as much asw he can in that position and games in Europe ,especially those away, are a nightmare for him and the team.
March 17th, 2008 at 12:01
The only season anderson isnt playin as good as he was is because of scholesys return.He was a constant starter early on.That allowed him to gain confidence and form.Scholes came in and he was out.Played on the left wing and in a more attacking position a few times.he was also on the bench for a long time.He didnt deserve to be dropped but he was.It would probably take him a few games to get his form back so he needs to start more games now.Hes been our best midfielder this year and we need his form back.
March 17th, 2008 at 12:04
I meant reason anderson…And ronaldo doesnt deserve no blame.31 goals and counting
March 17th, 2008 at 12:14
Anybody remember the Fulham away game??? No Rooney, No Ronaldo, No Anderson, until the last 30 mins and 3 goals up. I thought the lads that played gave a much better performance than the team at Derby yesterday. MORE AS A TEAM, with no big shots for an hour. I am not advocating the big boys are always at fault, but I agree with those who have said that Ronnie could cost us with his ball hogging and poor effort at providing assists - GREEDY boy!. But the lad wants the golden boot, so probably a bit obsessed with getting goals. How many of you will be happy though if our run in is affected by Ronnie’s thirst for personal glory?. Fergie should re-enforce the team work ethic to all the players. I love Ronnie though, and everyone else who gives their all in the red shirt - come on you mighty reds.
March 17th, 2008 at 13:48
u sound quite an idiot craig.. theres nothing wrong with going for personal glory and more goals. ronaldo does it coz he has the confidence (which the likes of rooney and saha sadly lack now). if it wasnt for ronaldo we’ll be even below liverpool now!
it is nowhere written that wingers shud not score goals or they cannot grow into striker roles. a certain henry comes to my mind who started as a winger but was terribly good as a striker as well! ronaldo can follow the same path and i wont bitch about it if he does. frankly rooney sucks big time as a striker, he fluffs more chances than anyone… he looks more suitable for the scholey role.. maybe next season we’ll see some role changes… but we shud not forget that this is a pretty young team (4 new players added this season) it takes time for players to completely gel with each other.. maybe next season we’ll see best of the likes of anderson and nani…
And I’m so proud of ronaldo’s record! I dont give two hoots if he provides no assists from now on but scores in every game! given our excellent defense, that wud be enough for us to win the league.
March 17th, 2008 at 13:51
But if ronaldo is played upfront what do you want him to do?he put in a good cross for saha yesterday but saha didnt reach for it.He tried to play in rooney but the pass didnt work.
March 17th, 2008 at 14:52
Jos - Do you call everybody idiots who don’t agree with you???. Read my post again PLEASE!. I didn’t say there is anything wrong with going for personal glory, just going for personal glory if it effects results at the end of the day. If you feel that Ronnie never puts his personal goal scoring at the detriment of the rest of the team - then that’s your opinion, and I will respect it without calling you an idiot or any other name. People were mentioning that Ronnie was not providing enough assists, and wanting to score himself when others are in better positions. I didn’t say that Ronnie shouldn’t be selfish, I was just asking if you could all accept it if it affected our title prosepcts - thats all?. I was also just giving a reason for Ronnie as to why he might be wanting to shoot more himself, because of the chance of the Golden boot - I didn’t say that was wrong!!!. People need to digest and try to see what people are actually saying instead of getting on their high horse - RANT OVER LOL.
March 17th, 2008 at 15:37
I think I agree with craig and redd75. We play more like a team without ronaldo in the side. However, in situations like Derby where we just cant find an opening anywhere, a little bit of brilliance is needed, and at the moment, only Ronaldo seems to be providing that.
Tevez needs to put up an awesome awesome display against Liverpool, and Rooney has GOT TO score against Bolton and Liverpool to get his confidence back before the faceoff against Roma.
March 17th, 2008 at 16:04
Mihir - I hope you don’t think I’m saying that Ronnie shouldn’t be in the team though - God forbid!. I just meant that we need our great players to be reminded now and again to remember the team ethic too. But like you so rightly say, Ronnie seems to be providing the genius at present. I agree with you about Roon and Tev - I hope they hit form and sizzle again in the Bolton, L’pool and Roma games.
March 17th, 2008 at 16:28
Redd75; I hope you are aware that on Saturday Ronaldo was not playing his usual position but was playing the striker position in a 4-4-2 setup. His job in that setup is not to be passing and crossing but to find space and when he does, SHOOT. In other games where he has started as a wide midfielder or winger I would agree with your points but not when he has been penciled in as a striker. Nobody ever expected crosses and passes from Ruud van Nistelrooy. Be happy he is selfish right now because in most games he is the one getting the goals. Setting up Rooney these days has proven to be fruitless. Tevez only occasionally shows up in the 18 yard box so the two combined never really have the nose for goals. At least Ronaldo has the scent and I for one say the more the merrier. Also, to those who think his celebrations are selfish I say, I agree but who cares. That is a cultural thing and he is expressing his Portuguese ego in the best way he knows. If this strokes his confidence we should be thankful. Confidence….Now thats something Rooney has been looking for for quite a while. Perhaps if he had a little more of the chip he had on his shoulder when he first showed up then he would do better. People forget some of his early celebrations bordering on arrogant. Lets not cut the head off the golden goose for fear she won’t be laying any more golden eggs.
March 17th, 2008 at 17:00
SAF needs to drop giggs from the starting line-up faster than a whore’s knickers. foster was great.
March 17th, 2008 at 17:10
Grognard: Have you forgotten his celebrations at Everton last season. I’d say the chip was still there after that
March 17th, 2008 at 18:32
I can’t believe what I read. People say Ronaldo is selfish and all. YES!!HE IS…and because of that we were able to score. Did anyone of you thought that Goggs, Scholes or rooney were going to score. In your dreams. We had a really shity game and I know this was said million times, but I will repeat it. O’Shea and Giggs were disgrace and Scholes and Anderson nonexistant, Don’t even want to mention Rooney and after all this SAF subs Park our 2nd best player on the pitch???
People always ask “Which is our best central partnership?” How about “Which are our best wingers?” and the answer is Ronaldo, Nani, Park and Giggs. Giggs is a legend and one of the best players ever played in EPL, but my greatest friend is the Truth…and don’t even make me to start on Rooney. He needs to play at least 3 good games, for me to get back my faith in him.
March 17th, 2008 at 18:58
guys, are you disappointed by the performance or are you disappointed that all your hype went to waste and it was not a romp like expected?
March 17th, 2008 at 20:00
Q. Why did Rafa Benitez go to Argos?
A. It’s the only place he could pick up Premier Points…..
March 17th, 2008 at 23:11
Dan; YES & YES to both of your questions.
Taron; Pretty harsh but coming from me that is mild praise. Ronaldo is selfish and thank God for that because the rest of the group couldn’t hit the side of a barn door from two feet. You go with what got you to the dance. Ronaldo is the horse for the course and I’m willing to ride him to a DOUBLE.
March 17th, 2008 at 23:20
[Grognard]
“…and I’m willing to ride him to the double.”
Heh! Read out of context, it gave me some other ideas.
March 18th, 2008 at 3:39
“He’s brilliant, Ronaldo, isn’t he?” [Derby County boss] Paul Jewell said to a nodding audience. “You can’t man-mark him because he starts off up front, drifts wide, comes into the hole. He’s six-foot-two, brave as a lion, strong as an ox and quick as lightning. If he was good looking you’d say he has everything.”
March 18th, 2008 at 7:01
There are too many people getting too nervous too soon!
You always have to dig out a result or two on the run in. It’s about the points and nothing else.
I 100% agree with Red Ranter…Rio and Vidic for every game from here on in, no exceptions.
Nani definitely before Giggs in all big games.
Fergie needs to get the centre midfield right. Nobody can agree on who should be first choice and I think all the chopping and changing lately has given rise to a couple of flat performances.
Other than that there’s nothing wrong with our form, most of the squad are fit, we’ve scored more
and conceded less than any other team in the PL and we’re favourites for both the PL and the CL(and the bookies are no mugs).
Hold your nerve while we get the job done.
March 18th, 2008 at 8:57
Ungrateful fucks!ronaldo has been manutd this season and last.if his is not the assist,then the assist ball comes from him.he is the one who drives the team foward.if our strikers are firing blanks,who supplies them?
dont even mention his celebrations.what next,the colour of his underwear?people are different but be glad he is scoring otherwise who else would?rooney?
March 18th, 2008 at 9:02
It was not so much where Ronaldo plays as part of the formation, but what he does at certain positions with the ball that I was concerned. If he was in a clear goal-scoring opportunity in front of goal, he should be taking shots, no doubt about that.
My point was more when he wasn’t in such good positions, such as out wide with two defenders closing in. In such situations, it is arguable that it may be better to release the ball a bit quicker and keep the ball moving and defenses off-balance. And it could be that because of this, the other players are not able to get into the game as much as they should.
After his suspension in the early part of the season, we played 4 games without Ronaldo (excluding Carling Cup and the dead rubber against Roma). We beat Villa 4-1, Lost to Bolton 0-1, Beat Arsenal 4-0 and Beat Fulham 3-1. I did recall that there was a bit more flow to our game in those three wins, and the overall team play was much better.
Of course, it is also arguable that Ronaldo would have won that game against Bolton had he played.
Ronaldo is an immense, immense talent and it’s a joy to watch him play and he’ll no doubt be in my first XI for any game. His goals have certainly been priceless and have won us more games than I learnt to count at school.
However, I think that with better decision-making and by trying to bring other team mates more into the game, the team as a whole will be a lot better.
March 18th, 2008 at 9:32
Agree with u RED75… The kid is 21, and has improved every year..
Imagine him at 25?
March 18th, 2008 at 17:04
It’s tough to turn the greed button off when you are scoring goals. Right now he is the only one scoring goals and so I believe he has had a mandate from Fergie to fire away regardless. Also, to check before shooting for other alternatives sounds nice but that little delay may have taken away his goals this weekend. Besides, who is he going to pass to that knows anything about scoring goals? Yah Yah I know we have Rooney and Tevez. My point exactly. Personally speaking if West Ham is expecting to 35 Mil for Tevez I say send him back to them. He’s a fine little player who can score big goals but I like a forward who can score lots of goals and who like to live in the box, not avoid it. Seriously, does anybody out there feel that Tevez is worth 35 mil? We’re stuck with Rooney who I believe will get out of his slumo eventually. Then United must pair him up a true striker. This will bring out the old Rooney I believe.
March 18th, 2008 at 17:25
I agree with Grognard that if Ronaldo decided to pass to either Tevez or rooney instead of shoot from anywhere, more likely than not Tevez or Rooney would just pass it striaght back to him so really until someone else starts getting a bit of form Ronaldo should keep doing what he’s doing. And Grognard £35m? I’m sure you found that from some stupid tabloid newspaper who in turn got it straight out of their arses.
It’s more likely to be around the same price we paid for Hargreaves, which seems like a fair deal don’t you think? Although if we’re buying Tevez at the expense of another better striker then I agree, Tevez isn’t worth it.
March 19th, 2008 at 5:53
When it comes to reading all the stuff that comes out, I don’t know what is trust worthy anymore. There are just so many sources and many of them just repeat the other guy. JEEZ!!!
Regardless, your last statement is exactly right. Buy Tevez but don’t pay the kind of money that could easily have gotten us Huntelaar, Gomez etc.