Sep 28
Fletcher has the right ideas
Darren Fletcher after having more or less established himself at the heart of United’s midfield reveals he wants to be known more than just a destroyer.
Fletcher’s defensive abilities and energy in the middle of the park has been apparent for most United fans even in the tail end of last season, but the Scot feels there are still areas that need improving.
“I don’t want to be pigeonholed as a destroyer,” Fletcher told the Sunday Telegraph.
“The whole idea is to become an all-round midfielder, who can pass the ball, score goals and get the team going.
“I can be a destroyer when we don’t have the ball and set a high tempo and be the trigger. When we don’t have possession, I’m thinking, ‘right, I’m going to be the first one to press and win it back’.”
I’ve been calling out for a dynamic midfielder who can both destroy play, as well as turn defence into attack by bombing forward, and it’s fantastic to see Fletcher recognize that. Players make the transition from average to good to great by recognising flaws in their game such as this one, and improving upon that. Fletcher is 25 and is yet to reach his peak if he continues to improve. So, hopefully, when Hargreaves eventually returns from his layoff, he can form a formidable partnership at the heart of our midfield especially useful in away European games.
He also talks about the change in the side following Ronaldo’s departure: “The manager has pointed out that Ronaldo has gone and that is a huge goal difference that we need to fill. As players, we all have to rise to the challenge.
“Ronaldo was good for us, but a lot of players sacrificed themselves for Cristiano too. In a lot of games, I’d be asked to play in central midfield but, whenever he went forward, I’d have to get out to the right to cover him.
“Maybe, now we have got back to 4-4-2, where everybody drops back as a four, it gives the midfielders more opportunity to bomb forward.
“I’d like to think I can get double figures this season because, in this team, you are always likely to get chances if you can get into the box.”
Fletcher got two in the Manchester derby, and if this is not a one-off from him, his contribution will go a long way towards spreading the goals around the side — which is, needless to say, very critical following the loss of Ronaldo.
Related items from Red Rants:
- The Soccerlens Forum
- United win easy, questions on Evans and Rossi
- Thoughts on the Aalborg win and reactions
- Brief Comment on Comments
- Oh Well, Let’s Throw the Kitchen Sink at United
Tags: News Snippets
September 28th, 2009 at 9:27
Love the Fletch. If he can continue developping and at a decent shot to his game, we really could be set for a first XI 5 year mainstay. Home grown, of course. Would never, ever have guessed that this time 3 years ago.
Which leads me onto observations from Saturday…
1. Paul Scholes is still the best midfielder in the country if you give him time on the ball. Everyone knows this, and yet Stoke, with an extra man in midfield, didn’t press him. Are they stupid? The Ginger Ninja can spray passes with an accuracy that is just terrifying.
2. Paul Scholes, even in a match like that, still could have been sent off. His first challenge was definitely a yellow, and he could done for deliberate handball. Would ahve been harsh, but I wouldn’t have been surprised. How can one player be so smart and stupid at the same time?
3. Surely Ryan Giggs is the ultimate super-sub? For 30 minutes he can operate at 100%, and if we could just work out a successful brain transplant, we could stick him in Nani’s body and have another 10 years of goodness.
4. Which would be easy, because at present there is a big gaping hole where Nani’s grey matter is supposed to be. My lord, how stupid is the lad? Stoke’s defense = 6′5″. Wayne Rooney = 3′2″. Hence chipped, lofted crosses are pretty f*cking useless.
5. Valencia is crap. There. I’ve said it. He might get better. But as of today, he’s just not very good. He lacks a first touch, which is pretty important. Hopefully he can be taught.
6. Berbatov scored. If Mickey Owen had scored that goal people would talk about movement, awareness, the uncanny knack of being in the right place and all that. To me it just did what it does when people say that, masked a pretty crap performance.
7. We’re a very good football team. To dominate possesion, and reduce Stoke to virtually no chances was a serious footballing feat. They are a very good team at home, very hard to play against but we made it looks reasonably easy. I’m encouraged to end by that fact.
8. Ben Foster played in goal. Didn’t matter, but at least he didn’t screw up. And the realisation that the criteria for judging him is ‘not having screwed up’ has pushed me over the edge. He’s not good enough. January buy please.
9. Why didn’t Fergie pull Scholes for Anderson? Scholes was barely running at the end, we’re up 2-0 and there’s always a chance of a red. Clearly SAF doesn’t trust the silly-haired one.
10. Are our young strikers actually going to get first team action? Macheda surely would have been a good option up front towards the end? He can’t be tired, had an aborted run-out midweek. If Fergie is serious about blooding them, this is surely as good a chance as any? Remember we’re one injury from them being very, very important.
September 28th, 2009 at 10:01
When giggs came in and worked miracle’s and did what nani had been unable to do for the entire 60 minutes he was on the pitch, i felt sorry for nani. Giggs made it look really easy to break down stoke’s defense I was a bit perplexed. Why did nani struggle so much against them. At 36 giggs shouldn’t be able to out perform nani,I just can’t put my fingers to where the problem lies with nani, his inconsistency just baffles me.Maybe he’s trying too much to be like ronaldo, maybe he seeks to much self glory because I see him try to shoot too many times in a match where a layoff or a pass would be better.
, even lennon got better so there is still hope for nani.
But he has alot of skills and he will eventually get better, hopefully
September 28th, 2009 at 10:28
Fletcherinho is showing early signs of potential greatness. He scored two goals against City,his pass to Rooney against Spurs and his pass to Giggs against Stoke show that he has more to his game than a mere defensive midfielder. If Hargreaves ever makes it back then centre mdfield is looking strong. Now for wide midfield, we need David Silva.
September 28th, 2009 at 10:41
Anderson+Fletcher=Match made in heaven.
*Whats up with the smilies being other places?
September 28th, 2009 at 10:53
What the fuck is up with this side now RR, everything is out of control!!!
September 28th, 2009 at 12:29
@Beachryan
Said what i wanted to say, only wayyyy better!! Hahaha!
September 28th, 2009 at 15:51
@Footy4Eddy: What is?
September 28th, 2009 at 17:57
@Beachryan: On Paul Sholes. I think he’s earned himself a rep with the refs now and it will be hard for him to overcome it. I actually thought his yellow was a tad harsh, and in fact a similar tackle by a Stoke player toward the end of the game was just called for a foul, with no card being issued.
How do you tell a CMF’er to ease up with the challenges for 50/50 balls?? It would negate the idea of winning possession in the opponents half.
At his age, it would be difficult to learn a new tackling technique, but he does need to disguise his efforts better, so that it doesn’t look like he’s trying to break someones leg every time he slides in!!
September 28th, 2009 at 18:00
@Red Ranter: You’ve changed some things on the site. Perhaps you should spell them out mate.
Not much going on, huh??
September 28th, 2009 at 18:09
@Footy4Eddy: I think you’ll see that on Wednesday!!
Should be a good game and I think Wolfsburg will have a go at us!!
September 28th, 2009 at 18:17
@ Redrich – Scholes’ approach to tackling seems to be ‘if the ball is on the other side of the player, I’ll just go through the player’. It’s just stupid, and a red mist moment every time. Usually they’re not even in important areas of the pitch!
While I do think he’s singled out a bit, he deserved his yellow on Saturday. Didn’t deserve the second against Spurs mind…
September 28th, 2009 at 18:21
Re: Wednesday, any bets we go for the traditional European approach? I can see it being:
————Foster———–
-Neville–Evans–Vida–Evra–
——Anderson-Carrick——-
————Giggs———–
—-Park———-Valencia–
————Rooney———-
Frustrating as it is, Fergie will probably go conservative. And I’ll end up yelling at the TV screen at the pointlessness of having Park on there
September 28th, 2009 at 18:28
@Redrich: Ah yes. Sorry bout that. Not intentional actually. I upgraded the backend software but apparently it has changed things on the site unexpectedly. I was planning on changing some stuff on the front end, minor tweaks, but nothing intentional has really happened on the front end. But yeah, now it would seem the reply button has moved to the bottom of every comment when you mouse over it.
September 28th, 2009 at 18:40
@Beachryan: I agree with that lineup mostly although I think we’ll go 4-3-3 with Rooney, Berbatov (no Park) and Giggs up front. It’s not that conservative, really, and can be adapted on the pitch easily to a 4-4-2 if required.
September 28th, 2009 at 19:06
@Redrich: Owen will be starting on wednesday mate
September 28th, 2009 at 19:45
My team for wednesday:
Foster
O’shea
Ferdinand
Vidic
Evra
Valencia
fletcher
carrick(last fucking chance!)
Giggs
Rooney
Owen
September 28th, 2009 at 19:50
@Dan: Neville instead of Oshea and Evans instead of Ferdinand, mate
September 29th, 2009 at 0:28
Where is everyone?
September 29th, 2009 at 1:56
@Beachryan:
The problem(s) with Nani is that he thinks he is the heir to Ronaldo’s throne. He thinks that he has Ronaldo’s skills since he is playing in his former position. Nani needs to realize that he has to be his own player and not try to copy Ronaldo, because that is not realistic nor possible. It’s frustrating to watch Nani bring the ball up then take it on his left foot (like Ronnie did) and blast it 20 yards over (not like Ronnie did). SAF needs to tell him to open his eyes and play team-football and use his brain…
After Foster, Nani is the player that frustrates me the most.
September 29th, 2009 at 2:31
@Lars: What brain??
September 29th, 2009 at 3:08
@Lars: Seriously though, I think the lad is a showman and he wants to impress the likes of RM, Barca etc. for future consideration.
He could well have people pushing him in this direction, but I doubt it. He wants to be a hot-dog, but United needs a solid winger that can just put in a decent ball occasionally.
If he could just learn the fundamentals and perform them regularly, all the nifty nips and tucks would be appreciated so much more!!
September 29th, 2009 at 4:06
@Lars: Nani is his own man but he is sooooo little and has soooo much to prove that it is getting to his head. I am giving him and Valethia this season to get rid of selfishness and poor decision-making (call me optimistic
).
I am looking forward to the game wednesday and hope to see a 442 with rooney feeding berba.
-X-
Oshea-Vidic-Ferdinand-Evra
Nani-Fletcher-Anderson-Giggs
——-Rooney——-
—-Berba————
With X being a sheet of ply-wood as I find it our current best option in goal — could not help it!
September 29th, 2009 at 4:43
This weeks Champions League game will be a testing one on our defence…And, by defence i mean Foster…Dzeko and Grafite are the Yorke/Cole combo of Die Bundesliga.
Team:
Foster
Oshea-Vida-Rio-Evra
Valencia-Fletcher-Scholes-Giggs
Rooney-Owen
Score: 3-2 United
September 29th, 2009 at 5:22
@spizzy: It’s got to do with the fact that Giggs is a genius and Nani with all his talent still has shit for brains. Never underestimate intelligence and composure.
September 29th, 2009 at 5:23
@Cyclops-Red: Early signs? Christ mate, he has been around for ages. Honestly, it’s about time he rewarded his manager and the fans with the faith they have shown in him.
September 29th, 2009 at 5:29
@Red Ranter: I for one have no problem with it RR and as long as it works, it seems perfectly fine with me. Actually, ever since I have moved from using Firefox to Safari the site works much better for me now and never hangs or freezes after I make a reply or when I scroll down like it used to before. And finally I get to see my little Cantona avatar too. So I’m as happy as bread dipped in jam.
September 29th, 2009 at 5:32
@Redrich: Wolfsburg isn’t really a wide threat so playing park for me is really not necessary. Their left fullback is decent at crossing balls into the box but still, it’s not their overall MO.
Giggs has to play with Fletcher and I have a feeling that Fergie may throw in Anderson hoping that he injects some energy. I still think Carrick is in Fergie’s doghouse and he has done little to get out of it. Berbatov will start due to his immense experience of playing in Germany against German teams that play a very technical game. I also think we will see Gary Neville on the right side.
September 29th, 2009 at 5:35
@owen: Of all the times to start Berbatov, it would be in Germany because of his experience having played there and his understanding of their style of play. So NO, I seriously doubt we will see Owen start.
September 29th, 2009 at 6:17
@Dan: Last fucking chance for Carrick? Jeez, the guy has been a pretty dependable if unspectacular midfielder for four years yet you are willing to throw him on the slag heap but you continue your vigil of support for that muppet Ben Foster? Go figure!
September 29th, 2009 at 8:07
RR.. where is the reply button..? i can’t see it even at the end of the comment box.. HELP!!!
September 29th, 2009 at 8:33
@Merlinus: It’s at the bottom right once your mouse passes over the individual’s post you want to reply to.
September 29th, 2009 at 8:45
@Grognard and RR and Merlinus Even I am not able to see it…. Not able to see smilies as well… Please HELP………
September 29th, 2009 at 9:26
@GrOgNaRd: StIlL i’M uNaBlE tO sEe It
September 29th, 2009 at 9:29
@Merlinus: Guys, may be its your browser…
What browser you using? Try firefox/chrome/safari… Or may be, clearing cache might help…
September 29th, 2009 at 9:32
@AndyCR7:
Maybe… As I am using IE 6.0. I am in the office right now. Don’t have access to any other browser but IE. I will check it later though from my place…
September 29th, 2009 at 11:23
I don’t know if you guys have seen this before… but today I came across this…
September 29th, 2009 at 12:12
So Owen and Park look set to miss out, as neither was able to train today: http://www.manutd.com/default.sps?pagegid={F9E570E6-407E-44BC-800F-4A3110258114}&newsid=6640509
Dissapointing about Owen, he definitely should be fine having had a good rest since the Carling Cup. A bit worrying that.
Given the above, looks to me like it’ll be:
————–Foster—————
—Gary—Rio—-Vida——–Evans-
———Ando—–Carrick———-
–Valencia—————-Giggsy—
————Roon-a-Berb————
September 29th, 2009 at 12:45
I have to say that European nights of late have really been a let down. We always play the same cautious defensive tactics trying to sneak a goal. At least in the past Ronaldo always provided entertainment value as well as the occasional wonder goal but now there is little to look forward to.
I pray to God Fergie goes with a 4-4-2 so at least Rooney gets to play centrally and provide that spark we’ve missed since Ronaldo went.
From a spectators perspective I hope Giggs plays because with Ronaldo gone he has turned into our most exciting player! But I worry we are overusing Giggs and he will burn out
September 29th, 2009 at 16:56
@Onkar: What kind of browser are you using mate? I don’t see the smiley’s when I open up Firefox but when I open up Safari I see them. I do see the reply button flash on both browsers though. As you pass over and individuals post, look for the reply button to flash at the bottom right hand corner of that post. If it’s not showing up I do not know what to tell you mate, sorry. If you are using Internet Explorer that maybe the reason. It’s a Microsoft product and thus the Devil’s spawn.
September 29th, 2009 at 16:57
@Merlinus: Read my reply to Onkar #32. That’s all I can tell you mate.
September 29th, 2009 at 16:58
@AndyCR7: I’d love to see Fergie do that in real life.
September 29th, 2009 at 17:01
@Beachryan: I would think Fletcher’s presence would be needed in a game like this to disrupt the midfield supply lines to both Dzeko and Grafite. I don’t care if he played on the weekend, he has boundless energy and he can be sat down in the weekend fixture to come. This is a Champions League game after all and he is needed. Why would I start either Carrick or especially Anderson over him?
September 29th, 2009 at 17:04
@colver: The group stage of the CL is the single dullest thing on the football calender all year. God, it amazes me that UEFA continue to parade this boring format to the masses.
Every team plays with super caution and is more than content with a draw up until the final 6th round when a win is needed to ensure a place. 0-0 and 1-1 are so common as is 1-0. It’s a joke.
September 29th, 2009 at 17:13
It seems to show up for me on Firefox/Safari (both, on Windows and Mac.) I suggest you clean up your cache and reload the page. It could take a while sometimes based on page load time and your speed.
September 29th, 2009 at 17:48
@Grognard: Yeah I think Wolfsburg has adopted a 4-3-3 since Martins joined them. Kind of like Barca’s approach, but more straight ahead.
Could be an interesting game and I’d like to us match them with that lineup.
September 29th, 2009 at 18:01
Good lord, if Martins is against Red Nev, the ball over the top will be a lethal weapon!
@ Grognard – I would agree we should probably use Fletch, just figured he might get a rest. Guess we’ll see.
The importance of the game shouldn’t be underestimated. If we win, we realistically only have to win one more home game and we’re through.
September 29th, 2009 at 19:35
@Grognard: you need to see them tear giants apart and you’ll know how a threat they are.
trust me, the rate at which Rio and Ben are making mistakes at the moment, we better get scared. those two chaps(Graffite n Dzeko) upfront are a great deal.
September 29th, 2009 at 19:35
Fifa 10 suck balls!!!
Patrice Evra: the game is the shit!
September 29th, 2009 at 19:36
Mourihno the snag, just made a 1 all draw with Rubin who???????
Someone finish it up for me…
September 29th, 2009 at 19:45
Gourcuff at his best… and Chamakh showing how crap a finisher he is…
September 29th, 2009 at 20:00
@NicoQB: You know, I think I must make a separate post for it.
September 29th, 2009 at 20:23
The only problem I have with the new format is you can’t reply to post on iPhone.
September 29th, 2009 at 20:25
@grognard how do you rate wolfsburgs manager from last year? Why did he leave, and are they as potent without him?
September 29th, 2009 at 20:25
Ha ha ha lol the Scouse are 2-0 down to Fiorentina lol
September 29th, 2009 at 20:26
that Olympiakos keeper Antonios Nikopolidis is a monster…at 43 he is single handedly keeping Arsenal from scoring…
September 29th, 2009 at 20:49
As for tomorrow, i think its suicide if Gary Neville is playing, love him to bits, but not for this level, in his current form. Gary has redefined the “skinned sausage” moniker.
Dzeko and Graffite are a handful, we’ll need our back 4 to put in a decent shift. My team
Foster
O Shea Rio Vidic Evra
Valencia Fletcher Giggs Nani Berba Rooney
we’re at home, lets do another Roma pls,
Attack, Attack, Attack!
September 29th, 2009 at 20:54
@Red Ranter: Please do!
September 29th, 2009 at 21:07
@Grognard: What faith did the the fans’ have??
September 29th, 2009 at 21:34
@Grognard: I have to agree with Cyclops. The manager deserves to be rewarded for his faith, but the fans? Gimme a break. He was the most reviled player on the United team sheet. People said a lot of bad things about him, as how he’s in the side just because he’s a Scot etc. I think Fletcher’s come good despite the lack of faith shown by most fans rather than because of our faith. He is one player who doesn’t really owe much to most United fans. He’s just a top man, who’s maintained his humility and honesty and worked his way up.
September 29th, 2009 at 21:44
Vidic>de laet> neville> liverpools defence
September 29th, 2009 at 22:30
@ Dan, i thought of including De Laet in my preferred starting lineup, but opted for the experience of O Shea instead. De Laet is a monster tackler, this lad will do well.
September 29th, 2009 at 22:33
@Phoenix Red: Hes a vidic on the wing with better ball control is how id describe him. I agree, experience is needed, that said, De laet shat all over valencia, and last time i checked, valencia>wolfsburg.
But O’shea i feel should get the nod tomorrow.
September 29th, 2009 at 22:55
@NicoQB:
September 29th, 2009 at 22:59
@Phoenix Red: Had my Liverpool-fan mate over to watch the game, and I lolled the whole time because he went on complaining about everything possible!!!
From Lucas being the worst player ever, to how Insua sucks, how their defence is terrible, how Voronin is the most stupid footballer you will ever see, how Benitez is stupid to play Aurelio as CM and sub Babel, and so on… 
Its nice to have a mate like that, liking a rival team and actually managing to stay unbiased at times. Of course he is biased, but who isnt? He is cool, should let him come over more often! 
September 29th, 2009 at 23:01
@Dan: Lucas < Bag of Shit
September 29th, 2009 at 23:11
Not much going on these days… Everything has cooled since the City win. United related that is, as I see there is very little talk here. And I dont count Foster bashing as talk, its just rubbish in my opinion to brand a keeper just 6 games into his United career as either “horrible” or “absolutely fucking immense!”. Give the lad time, thats all Im saying.
So fucking little is going on…
On Thursday FIFA 10 is out!!!
Gonna game it to death the first day! 
Ive got some squad ratings for United, take a look:
Rio: 86
Vidic: 88
Evra: 82
Valencia: 80
Fletcher: 79
Carrick: 84
Scholes: 84
Anderson: 80
Nani: 79
Rooney: 87
Berbatov: 85
Giggs: 83
Owen: 79
Ive got some more, but these are the most vital ones in my opinion… How the fuck can Fletch only be 79?!?!?!!?
Well, they do have some shit ratings at times. But thats just a travesty! Naaah, at least I figured out how the Viritual Pro GameFace works! 
It looks immense, and those of you with Xbox Live or PS3 Live should defo make your own accounts on eafootballworld.com. The gameface is probably one of the best things in the game, its gonna be so fucking amazing! 
Just gotta find a recent picture of me that fits the bill, so far my face looks blown up and just unnatural! 
Gonna work on that tomorrow…
September 29th, 2009 at 23:15
@Johnsom33: Well Felix Magath is an excellent manager. A real disciplinarian who demands complete loyalty and does not deal well with ego’s. He had great success at Bayern and got sacked because some of the superstars didn’t like his rotation system and his demands on them to defend as well as attack. I’m sure Munich are really regretting sacking him and hiring Klinsmann who didn’t exactly work out. Magath’s record speaks for itself. Everywhere he has managed he has won. Last year he accomplished a minor miracle. He took a footballing minnow and guided them to the Bundesliga title by getting the absolute maximum from all his players and by helping Edin Dzeko finally emerge as a scoring talent. I still cannot believe Wolfsburg won the title. Anyway, Magath is the real deal and although Schalke have not been great so far this season, neither was Wolfsburg at this stage last year. Their second half was from another universe as I believe they only lost once after the winter break. I don’t think he will repeat with Schalke because I do not think he has the attacking threats he had with Wolfsburg. But he has a solid defensive team with what I feel is the best goalkeeper on the planet presently, and that includes Casillas and Buffon.
September 29th, 2009 at 23:19
FIFA 10 ratings for United. Xbox 360 and PS3 only(as far as I know).
VDS: 83
Oshea: 80
Rio: 86
Vidic: 88
Evra: 82
Valencia: 80
Fletcher: 79
Carrick: 84
Nani: 79
Berbatov: 85
Rooney: 87
Foster: 77
Evans: 76
Rafael: 76
Owen: 79
Park: 80
Scholes: 84
Giggs: 83
Neville: 76
Anderson: 80
Macheda: 74
Brown: 78
Tosic: 75
Hargreaves: 82
Welbeck: 73
Fabio: 72
Kuzzy: 73
Gibson: 72
Obertan: 68
De Laet: 66
Cathcart: 65
Eikrem: 62
Thoughts please?
September 29th, 2009 at 23:19
@Cyclops-Red: Many fans believed he would be a very decent player and would be consistent. Well ha has been that but now he has stepped it up to even greater heights than what the fans expected and i am sure even over what Fergie expected too. Then again I think the Gaffer knew what he had all along.
September 29th, 2009 at 23:22
@Red Ranter: I don’t know RR. He wasn’t everyone’s cup of tea but i rarely remember out and out criticism directed at him the way Anderson, Foster and Berbatov get. I think he was just seen as a good player but far from anything spectacular. He was accepted in the same vein as O’Shea because he did his job well but without any frills. But now he has really emerged into an outstanding two way player who is making us all take notice. Sure there were those who hated his every move in the past but I do not think it was a loud majority by any means. I for one am very critical of certain players but I do not recall having really been vocally loud against Fletcher. No I didn’t want him as a regular starter but I never felt scared that he was out there unlike the way Anderson made me feel playing the same position.
September 29th, 2009 at 23:24
Just to prove why 79 is too little for Fletcher… Well, best way is probably to tell you that Lucas, of all people, is 78.
Fletcher: 79
Lucas: 78
Ehhhhh…………………………. Epic fail?
September 29th, 2009 at 23:26
@Phoenix Red: I really like De Laet a lot and I feel he has the tools to be the starting RB for the club. But in truth, none of us really know enough about him based on a few appearances and what he does with the reserves. We need to see much more of him before we anoint him as the fullback position’s Vidic. I just think we should be a little cautious when praising him too much before he has really accomplished anything.
September 29th, 2009 at 23:28
@Footy4Eddy: It’s time to convince him that his future as a fan should be with the Red Devils not the forlorn hope that is known as the Red Scouse.
September 29th, 2009 at 23:30
@Footy4Eddy: I think that is really being hard on all bags of shit. How about Foster>Bag of shit instead?
September 29th, 2009 at 23:34
@Grognard: I said he was one of the most reviled.There were threads dedicated towards mocking him. I remember that quite vividly. Fans have poor memories. Players like Anderson and Berbatov have polarising opinions — you have those that are complete loyalists and those that are not. However, if you asked about Fletcher 2-3 years ago, no one would have argued if we were to have sold him. The fans that had faith in him even 2 years ago were in the minority.
The common refrain this season unanimously has been: “Fletcher has become the most important player for us” followed by this: “who would have thought of that not too long ago”. Almost 99.99% of the commentary on Fletcher has been that. Says a lot about how he was never really rated.
Whereas if Anderson/Foster/Berbatov come good, you will see about a 50% of bloggers and commenters coming out and saying: “See, I told you so.” That didn’t happen with Fletcher.
Fletcher has unexpectedly emerged.
September 29th, 2009 at 23:35
@Footy4Eddy: When they put those ratings together they obviously were basing it on last season and based on last year Fletcher is no better than an 80. Maybe they will change it before the release and actual printing/pressing date for the game. I still feel that Berbatov and Scholes are too high. No striker who can’t score goals should ever get a rating that high. And Scholes, I wouldn’t give Scholes an 80 at this stage in his career. I also would rate Giggs higher based on the fact he is still great and he is coming off his PFA award season. Vidic is 88 which is fine but so help me I will drive over to EA personally and reign havoc on them if they rated John Terry higher.
September 29th, 2009 at 23:39
@Footy4Eddy: Scholes
, Foster a 77? 
More like a 57 in my books. 
De Laet is to unknown by the bozo’s at EA or i would give him at least a 75. EVDS also deserves higher than 83. I wonder what Messi and Ronaldo are this year?
September 29th, 2009 at 23:40
@Grognard: No way, man.
Fletcher was bashed and criticised and very unfairly.
Anderson for instance, does not receive 1/10th the amount of bashing that Fletcher did 3 to 4 years ago.
In the collective mind of fans he was reviled much in the way that a Foster is nowadays, except that he was exempted from day-in day-out criticism as his appearances were only occasional.
@Footy4Eddy: Park at 80 is just marketing, and you know it! To be fair, nowadays Fletcher is only truly appreciated at his just value by United fans. General football media still think he’s somewhat of an odd fish in our star studded team. Maybe that’s because he has such a bland appearance.
September 29th, 2009 at 23:42
@Footy4Eddy: That is a joke. I actually can live with Fletcher at 79 because I can tweak him up to 81 or 82 without much trouble but Lucas is a useless git that should be getting what they gave De Laet.
From what I recall when I last talked to my friend who works over at EA, most of the programmers were fans of Liverpool, Barcelona and Arsenal. I guess that will make Almunia a 90 and Messi a 99 this season. 
September 29th, 2009 at 23:43
@NicoQB: Even Foster has a fairly even split among fans – despite the majority opinion on this particular blog. Maybe the City game has made it 70% against and 30$ for Foster. But the vast majority of United fans couldn’t be bothered if Fletch did well or not. So in my opinion he doesn’t really ‘owe’ us. Fletcher’s improvement has been a bonus no one really expected but for Ferguson and the coaching staff. Those people deserve the real credit.
September 29th, 2009 at 23:44
@Red Ranter: I’ll take your word for it mate. I do not scour the other forums so you would know better than me, but i always had the impression that he was thought of as alright but not as a starter. I stand corrected.
September 29th, 2009 at 23:45
@Red Ranter: Easy to gloat afterwards, but I was in the small minority that supported him!
But I admit that I didn’t see him originally as a Makelele-type of enforcer, more like a Scholes or Keane type passing/controlling midfielder.
September 29th, 2009 at 23:46
@Grognard: Thank you. I consider it my personal victory to have convinced you.
Now I must pat myself on the back for a good day’s work.
September 29th, 2009 at 23:47
@NicoQB: Which is odd, because he was supposed to have been a Beckham-type player.
September 29th, 2009 at 23:47
@NicoQB: I suppose that is why I never noticed it, because he didn’t play so often and thus wasn’t getting the day to day bashing that I and others have been dishing out to Foster. I for one have never had a major problem with him as a role player but I never in my wildest dreams expected him to emerge into a Roy Keane lite. Right now I would have to struggle seriously to select another DMF over him. Essien and my love and loyalty for Hargreaves are the only choices. He has been that bloody good. It’s still so early in the season though that I hope and pray he keeps it up and that it isn’t just a short hot streak of form he is in.
September 29th, 2009 at 23:49
@Red Ranter: I agree, but my point was that the bile directed at Fletcher was much in the same vein as that directed presently at Foster, even if Foster does have his own supporters.
September 29th, 2009 at 23:50
@Red Ranter: Hey mate there are those who would still vote for George W Bush too. Never underestimate the stupidity of some people.
September 29th, 2009 at 23:51
@Red Ranter: OK just for that you have me feeling suicidal. Had I known you would get your jollies from it I would have thought twice.
When I’m wrong I’m wrong. So relish this victory because you know how incredibly rare it will be. 
September 29th, 2009 at 23:53
@NicoQB: The big difference is that Foster deserves the bile he has been getting and possibly even more.
September 29th, 2009 at 23:54
@Red Ranter:
@Red Ranter: Fletcher? Beckham type? Nahhh.
3-4 years ago he was played mostly on the right, but Centre midfield was always his true position. I know as I remember an article in Manchester United Maganzine (I think its called Insdie United now) about him back when he was still a youth prospect of 16 or 17.
Fergie, and this is one of his major flaws, often plays players out of position and sometimes ends up dimming some aspects of their game.
Mr. Anderson will know everything about that!
September 29th, 2009 at 23:55
@Grognard: I think Bush is a rock star in comparison, I wouldn’t be surprised considering the ridiculously high ratings nutjobs like Glenn Beck get.
The world never fails to amaze.
September 29th, 2009 at 23:58
@Grognard: I won’t get into any argument about Foster with you!
I will be vindicated or I will stand corrected, but I know better!
September 30th, 2009 at 0:40
Well wait a minute here. It’s 7/8 games in and we’re already proclaiming Fletcher the new Beckham.
I guess it’s ok to go OTT when it’s positive but completely taboo when it’s negative.
Fletcher has played out of his boots so far and for that I’m loving him: But some more time please, before we bestow him with all these titles of greatness!
September 30th, 2009 at 1:06
@Redrich: No. You wait a minute there and read what was written.
What was said above was he was supposed to have been the new Beckham when he started his United career on the right wing. He is certainly not the new Beckham. And nor is he the next Keane/Essien. Not yet at least.
September 30th, 2009 at 1:16
@Red Ranter: And you think Bush is a rock star, too. I sometimes wonder about you, mate!
September 30th, 2009 at 1:47
@NicoQB: Although SAF will put players in uncomfortable positions, the measure of his commitment to the overall team effort shines through, and is shown by the success he has achieved for the team and us as fans.
The players that never succeed at OT in his reign, are those that ignore, this principal, and while they could be very good players (RVN, Staam, Beckham eg.), he is willing to sacrifice their talent for the overall good of the team!
September 30th, 2009 at 1:52
@Redrich: That was the point. Fletcher was never deemed to be the new Beckham, and he will never be!
September 30th, 2009 at 1:55
@Red Ranter: He actually started his united career in the centre of midfield, played once in a while there too. But he was soon shifted on the right as Fergie was experimenting with him and Solksjaer before Ronaldo was even bought.
September 30th, 2009 at 2:06
@Redrich: Hmm, never heard of the phrase tongue in cheek, eh?
September 30th, 2009 at 2:10
@NicoQB: The Beckham comparison was a poor choice by me to sieze on.
However I felt that with the season so young, the Fletcher mania should be tempered a little until the lad puts together a sustained period of good performances.
We did see some glimpses of this last season, and a sporadic game here or there throughout his career: But nothing sustained to make us think he’s gonna be great for us.
So far he has been suprising, plesently so, too!
September 30th, 2009 at 2:11
@NicoQB: Well, this article, dated July 28, 2000 would disagree with you: link He’s being viewed as a winger throughout.
September 30th, 2009 at 2:14
@Red Ranter: You haven’t, that surprises me too!
September 30th, 2009 at 2:18
@Redrich: I dont’ really agree with this. Stam and RVN were played in their most effective positions and were successes at least at individual level.
Beckham, even though his original position was in the centre of midfield, learnt very early the position od Right midfield, and had such a sweet foot and great stamina that h efared exceedingly well at this position. THat’s not to say that he would have failed in the centre, I believe he would have done just as well but by the time he gave the position a shot he had already mastered the position of right midfielder, so he was always bound to pale in comparison.
But the thing about players not performing well after leaving /United is just a myth imho.
McGrath won POTY at Aston Villa, Forlan is right now one of the best strikers in the world, even Poborski ended up being a legend at Porto (I think). RVN performed very well at Madrid, but he himself sees that he did a mistake in leaving, not because of he doesn’t play as good as he did at United, but rather becausehe knows that he will never relive those halcyon days where he was the main man of the team.
I think the reason people think players fail after leaving united is because
1) in truth the player wasn’t really good enough, e.g. Beillion, Miller, Taibi; or
2) the person had trouble coming to grips with life in england and his performances ended up suffering – Poborski, Veron, even nearly Vidic!
3) plain bad luck (e.g. through injuries) or lack of chances to appear in the team – Beardsley, Forlan
Also it is a recognised fact for the most part that by not playing players in their natural position, they tend to lose effectiveness. Veron was an example, and it seems that Anderson will follow suit… Gibson has also been very disappointing when played on the right, just as Fletcher was in a way.
September 30th, 2009 at 2:27
Right. There’s been a tweak in the theme. I’ll be looking to post breaking news, updates, links, short posts etc in this format. These posts will appear formatted differently on the front page to differentiate between longer, more opinion oriented posts. Anyway, feed back appreciated. Although I will be sticking with this kind of a format, by and large for newsy-linksy posts.
September 30th, 2009 at 2:30
@Red Ranter: What the heck does an espn dated of 2000(!) know about football?
Kidding, but I’m 100% sure (and I don’t make these kind of statements very often) that Fletcher was always a Centre Midfield by trade. I’m pretty sure he mentioned it.
The journalsit there just wanted to sex up his article by making sweet comparisons with Beckham, and made the parallel between an up and coming young united fan. Nowhere its mentioned that Fletcher actually plays on the right, or has the same footballing style as him. Its just what the writer of the article would want you to believe.
But the article did comfort me in one thing I always thought about Fletcher is that he was technically very good in his early United days, and somewhere along the line this aspect of his game was dimmed when his blood and guts character became his bread and butter.
September 30th, 2009 at 2:33
@NicoQB: ESPN’s soccer articles, back in the day, used to be written entirely by Brits.
September 30th, 2009 at 2:34
@NicoQB: My point was that, SAF, regardless of the talent, wants players to perform his way. It gives him control of how the team plays and the results of that control, speak for themselves.
The 3 examples I used were of players that did not heed his word, and they were let go.
Their talents were still obvious to see, and they did go on to perform well for other teams, but SAF insistence on control made them expendable.
And so his tendency to play players in positions that does not immediately reap rewards, is not so much a “major flaw”, but an insistence that has created his success!!
September 30th, 2009 at 3:07
@Red Ranter: Why the need for the change? Certainly doesn’t give the front page any more impact but seems fine to me.
I’m not sure I ever differentiated between one type of post or another. If I wanted to comment, I would comment anyway!!
September 30th, 2009 at 3:37
@Redrich: This format helps me have short posts just to post links/news etc and look cleaner on the front page. Otherwise you will have a headline with big font, yet a tiny article. It’s got more to do with the cosmetic look on the main page on the site than anything else.
September 30th, 2009 at 3:46
@Red Ranter: So do we still just comment to the last post or should/can we comment to 2 or three simultaneously??
September 30th, 2009 at 4:25
@Redrich: You can comment on ant post you like. The only time I tell people to move on to newer posts is when there are far too many comments on a post that slows a page down.
September 30th, 2009 at 5:43
@Red Ranter: The ratings that clown and Bill O’Reilly get are nothing compared to what the Liberal side like Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow get. There will always be enough nut jobs out there to support the crazy’s like Beck as there will be a lot of nut jobs out there who will believe with every fiber of their being that Ben Foster will be the second coming of Gordon Banks too. And I have no problem calling them nut jobs because that is exactly what they are even if they have the right to express their opinion. I call a spade a spade. As you know from the past RR, I have serious problems tolerating stupidity (unless it’s my own), so forgive me on this one.
By the way, I comments you on the new look and approach. It makes the blog more current looking and more dynamic, not to mention functional. Well done.
September 30th, 2009 at 5:47
@NicoQB: Sorry mate but on Fioster you know diddly squat. Sorry. But I won’t hold that one against you. We all have our guilty pleasures and have made our poor choices in life. You choose footballing numptees to idoloze, for me it’s women who will destroy one’s soul. Such is life.
September 30th, 2009 at 5:49
@Redrich: That’s what I was trying to allude to earlier. That no matter how fantastic Fletch has been, it’s been 7 games and he got off to great start (although not as great as this season) last year. Based on form he has been a Keane lite, but lets see how long he can continue with it or if it’s a permanent thing.
September 30th, 2009 at 5:52
@Red Ranter: I called his present form right now Keane Lite and that I would take only Essien over him based on that current form. But i do want to emphasize that I also did warn everyone to be more cautious before anointing him to the throne because the season was still in it’s infancy. I just want to make that clear because I am on no level a true bandwagon jumper as I need to see more greatness from him. On the Foster scene however, i have seen enough. Ship him off to Iceland on the next ice breaker.
September 30th, 2009 at 5:53
@NicoQB: No, that label is being held for Gibson.
September 30th, 2009 at 5:57
@Redrich: Absolutely agree with you Red. He has been phenomenal up to now but it is only seven games into the year. The one really encouraging thing to consider is that he has tremendous stamina and energy and is less likely to burn out from fatigue. Then again, he has never been used as much as he is going to be used this year. We’ll have to see how he handles the Carrick role of starter while Michael vegges out on the bench demanding a transfer by Christmas.
September 30th, 2009 at 5:59
@Red Ranter: I think it’s a great way to handle the numerous stories and angles that are going on and keeping posts and threads on topic more. Again, well done mate.
September 30th, 2009 at 6:03
@Red Ranter: This is why I think it’s a good idea. To keep the site from slowing down. I remember at times when we have gone over 500 or more posts on a thread and the site would just go into sloth mode. This might take some getting used to by some because they are programmed to think one way, but I think once everyone is used to the new look and understand the reasoning behind it, they will move on as if nothing has changed. After all, we are United fans here and not Scouser supporters. We are expected to have more of an IQ and understand subtle changes better than your average Liverpudlian.
September 30th, 2009 at 6:30
@Red Ranter: Yeah.. Its give good new look to it…
But, I am still not able to see reply button.. 
(Maybe because my browser.. 
)… But at least I am seeing the smileys…. 
September 30th, 2009 at 6:35
See, when Man UTD plays well we may take whole week to reach 500 but, when its a rubbish Man UTD performence we reach that marks in a day or two isn’t it???
Incredible… Of course its all about Ranting….
September 30th, 2009 at 6:43
@Grognard: To be honest I’m getting increasingly tired of Olbermann and Chris Mathews too. You see, they are sort of the other extreme and lose objectivity for the sake of counterbalancing Fox News. I am sick of the bias on news channels when we’re supposed to be watching objective analysis. The most sense on politics these days come, oddly enough, on The Daily Show (Jon Stewart) and the Colbert Report.
As for calling those who back Ben Foster stupid, well, you’ve opened a can of worms for yourself, because you could open yourself to a lot of criticism. It’s quite possible others might genuinely think they are calling a spade a spade by returning the compliments to you too. My advice: play your cards carefully.
There is virtue in strictly following the policy of respecting opinions — even if it means you want to strike the person on the head at heart. 
September 30th, 2009 at 7:29
@Red Ranter: The ONLY news worthy of the title News, is the infamous News Hour with Jim Lehrer on PBS (Public broadcast). This is seriously the only show left on TV that displays the power of investigative journalism and critical thinking.
September 30th, 2009 at 9:19
@Onkar: That’s very true, it’s debating and generally disagreeing with each other that makes a thread go over 500 replies. When we play well we are all in agreement and once the love fest is over, it’s on to other things. That’s perfectly normal and common nature. I still prefer the debates as long as they do not become heated arguments. Agreeing on everything is good because it means the team is playing well but it is boring in terms of debate and overall blogging and conversation, don’t you think?
September 30th, 2009 at 9:35
@Red Ranter: Very true and very good point on Ben Foster. I need to learn to control myself when it comes to tolerating what I see as stubborn stupidity and naiveté. The problem here is that even more than usual, I really believe 110% that I am right on him. So in regards to a can of worms, I am also setting myself up for a mighty deluge of abuse shoulf he turn out to be a great keeper. Yeah right! And goats have wings.
As for MSNBC, I have never been a strong Matthews fan but I truly love Olbermann. I’m sorry RR but he calls it as it is. The man smells of righteousness and honesty and he has constantly and continuously dished out cold solid proof on the noise and corruption of the right wing and especially Cluster Fox News or Fixed New, as he so smartly refers to them. The man has integrity and has scruples and his special comments remind me so much of Edward R Murrow who was well before your time. I love the man and his show is a staple for me every night when I am eating dinner. I to love the Dailey Show but Colbert I find funny at times but generally his format and style for me is annoying. Another hero of mine although I do not share his atheist views is Bill Maher. Maher is the closest thing you will ever find to my personality, sense of humor, cynicism and ability to rationalize. I’m dead serious. Two friends of mine often tell me that Ia remind them of Maher in regards to my personality and wit. For me he just makes so much sense.
As you know I absolutely hate the right wing and i find them and most Republicans dead from the heart up as well as selfish, greedy and evil. Now I need to ask you who I find to be one of the nicest, fairest and most liberal sounding people I know why you don’t care for Olbermann? Seriously mate, is living in Hickville Texas starting to rub off on you. That’s Dubya country and they seriously are a state that is sick in the head.
Sorry for the political rant but lets face it, until tomorrow, there isn’t much footy to discuss. Cheers mate.
Oh and by the way, if you want a quick tip on a sure fire way to pick up women anywhere but in Texas, buy one of these shirts. I can’t get enough of how many women are showing the old Grognard attention and chatting up with him since he bought and started to wear that shirt. Chicks dig the shirt.
http://www.imaginegate.com/super-obama-comic-con-alex-ross-tshirt.html
September 30th, 2009 at 9:37
@[OPTI]Madschester United: I agree with you as it is neutral and completely professional and it steal makes most Republicans look like the evil ass clowns that they are. But my fave is still Olbermann. That man is one of my true heroes.
September 30th, 2009 at 10:08
@Grognard: I don’t hate Olbermann – I actually like him, but some of his over the top antics annoys me. I love Bill Maher too. I’m not very religious as such, although that doesn’t mean I don’t have morals and ethics — they are completely different if you get my drift.
Right now, Glenn Beck makes O’Reilly look the voice of reason. He’s quite easily the most detestable talking-head ever. Little wonder he shares the same initials as George Bush.
I could go on about my political views but I guess it will be long winded, out of place, and people will just get bored
Maybe email is a better option.
September 30th, 2009 at 12:23
@Grognard : Agreed… We are just natural fighters…. I mean we like to debate.. Debate hard… And till the skin of teath is ripped off… I will debate…
Agreed.. Sometime its nice to disagree….
September 30th, 2009 at 17:41
@Red Ranter: Truly, because I have the greatest respect and admiration for you mate (despite our occasional disagreements on here), I am relieved to hear you say that. Up until 3 or 4 years ago I never really cared if somebody was a liberal or conservative. In fact, I used to work for a conservative provincial minister back in Alberta in the 80’s as my leaning back then were different and dare I say a little warped and naive. I eventually woke up to the realities of the world and I thank the George Bush regime for finally setting me straight on all this. Such evil corruption I have never seen so close to my door. I was shocked every week with how many terrible, vile, evil and reprehensible things Dick Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bush and his cronies would perform. It all really started with that corruption over who won the first election back in 2000. Anyway, suffice it to say I have been shocked and appalled at what has become of America, a country I used to not only admire, but wanted to live in.
Glen Beck, what a piece of work. This little insignificant misuse of egg ad sperm reminds me of David Dukes and your typical redneck white supremacist type. In fact I even remember writing into CNN a few years back and condemning them for having hired this man to spew his hate and narrow minded fear agenda on their second channel. It seems like anyone can have a show now if he has the agenda and the balls to make an ass of himself or to spew uneducated ignorant garbage, as long as he gets the ratings. Which says a lot about the dwindling and declining quality of news journalism over the past twenty years. News journalists still have a lot to accomplish before they become the Van Gogh’s of sleaze and tabloidism that the English and Spanish football media has elevated itself to.
Anyway, I’m glad you aren’t against Olbermann. Yes he can be a little over the top and there are times I do believe he makes a mountain out of a mole hill but in general, the man has ethics and respect for the rights of man, maintaining the common decency and ethics that the constitution demands of Americans.
The only time I have ever gotten pissed off with him brought out the conservative in me. It’s when he so condemned Roger Clemens for supposedly taking steroids and then lying about it. This was so unlike Olbermann for two reasons. Like myself, he was known and acknowledged as a major Clemens and Yankees fan and secondly, it was not like him to condemn anyone unless there was 100% irrefutable proof that linked Clemens to steroid use. To this day I have yet to see the irrefutable proof that links him to this. Hersay and innuendo as well as lies to congress by a weasel and scumbag who was trying to cop a deal to stay out of prison for having sold and injected many ball players in the past. All of whom had evidence and a paper trail proving their guilt. All of them except one Roger Clemens. The greatest pitcher of the modern era who was famous for his hard work, Navy Seal workout regiment and dedication to the game. Not a player who cheated and looked for the easy way out. Yes I show bias here because Clemens is truly one of my heroes and I do not want to believe in his guilt, but mostly because nothing has ever been presented to me or to the world that points to his undeniable guilt. But the media loves to condemn in their new kangaroo court of public opinion. Yet another reason why I hate journalists today and the one thing that I would love to tell Keith Olbermann off for.
The only thing that I cannot handle about Roger Clemens is that I do believe he is a Republican and that he had all the conservatives on his side in Congress while my beloved Democrats were quick to be rude and ruthless towards him when he was giving his testimony. Amazing how they would hang this man out to dry just out of political expediency and to get one over on their counterparts. Anyway, sorry once again for going on about something that is not about footy, but this was directed to you only. Obviously I am passionate about the issues and about what is going on, and it is clear you are too. Glad to hear you are a Bill Maher fan too. Although I am religious, I am not a church goer and do not believe in organized religion as I think it’s a sham and American’s have also shown why religion and politics should never mix too. Anyway, Maher lets them have it and I just love it because frankly, they all deserve it. And I never apologize for being long winded.
September 30th, 2009 at 17:59
@Onkar: I agree. This community here on Red Rants is a special little group where we all get along for the most part but where we all know each other pretty well and are comfortable with each other’s differences simply because over time, we have come to know what makes the other tick.
For example, I often have disagreements with Craig and Dan where we can get pretty nasty with each other. Well I cannot speak for them but I will say that i have the utmost respect for both of them and that i like them despite the fact that I quite often disagree and even get pissed off with heir views and ideas, as I’m sure they do with me as well. It’s hard to establish that kind of respect and understanding on a lot of other blogs that are either too big and too cold and lacking of community atmosphere. Quite often Red Rants has the feel of the boys meeting at the local pub after a long day of work and just sitting around drinking and talking United and footy. On other blogs you get the feeling that you are just another brick in the wall and one of many people who are overlooked and not remembered. Why contribute to a site that is so large and so cold that you are never really remembered or acknowledged? For me it’s like writing your name and a crude comment in a public washroom. What’s the point. who cares and who will read it? That is why I only participate in one football blog and it’s right here. I have established myself here and the community that resides on it is well known and very familiar to me.
I feel comfortable amongst all of you and that is important. Above all, I feel welcome, appreciated and respected (by most of you at least). You cannot put a price on that. And although I have often had my arguments and disagreements with Red Ranter, I have nothing but the utmost respect for him because he is the reason for this. He has designed and maintained a truly classy blog that for me is head and heels above the others because of it’s intimate sense of community and real feel of comfort and efficiency. This blog is not too big but it’s not to small either. And over the few years I have been on it, the bullies, thought police and control freaks have left out of frustration and out of the fact that their kind of attitude is not tolerated in a real community oriented blog. I wish a lot of the other blogs were maintained and run like that. Instead they are infested with hate mongers, intolerant ass clowns and undesirables who live to make other people uncomfortable or defensive due to their own insecurities and needs to vent their vile frustrations. RR doesn’t stand for that and he stands by his own laws that he has created and that we all seem to adhere to for the most part. That’s why debating and arguing on this blog is actually a privilege.