Mar 01
Fulham v Man Utd: Preview
It’s Fulham today and United would look to put goals past the Cottagers and ensure the all important three points. Arsenal will be playing Villa at the same time.
So let’s get our preview in as soon as we can as we lead you up to the match.
Not much in the way of team news really, apart from Giggs missing out with a calf injury. However, iron-man Vidic is fit and it’s good to know that his limping around in the Newcastle game was nothing to be worried about — iron-man, that he is. While still on injuries, Easter Island Head is looking to return to the side soon. It’s a good thing that Evra has been relatively injury free and Silly has been out for a long time. He’s a decent squad player, but he’s also been a disaster waiting to happen. Anyway, we always respect our players, and we’ll do so to EIH too.
Meanwhile, there has been no mention of Neville picking up another injury. So I will knock on every splinter of wood in my house and keep my fingers crossed on this one. As an aside, would too much wood-knocking and finger-crossing cross out each other and jinx Neville? We’ll have to wait and see. So watch this space as we keep you updated with more on the Neviller’s anatomy.
On the team composition, we’d expect our ‘fab-four’ at the back with Nani and Ronaldo on the wings. I say Ronaldo because SAF may not take any games lightly from now on. He will play Ronaldo in Fulham, and he will play him against Lyon, in midweek. And Anderson and Carrick would play in central midfield. Scholes and Hargreaves (although I am uneasy about that combination) would play in midweek. Right, so that’s enough sticking-my-neck-out material penned for the day.
About our front two, I am not as certain. Rooney and Tevez is as good as any strike partnerships go but there is a possibility that a fit-looking (or fit-sounding?) Saha might be in the mix somewhere. SAF may have the temptation to play Rooney and Saha for this one. It’s just my hunch — betting people, mind, it’s rather unreliable, that hunch of mine.
About the pre-match banter forced on the managers (and on us) by the kind folk at Sky and Setanta, there has been some talk about SAF’s admiration for Roy Hodgson’s accumulated frequent flier miles and how his constant shifting from one club/country to another may have found favour with airline companies.
Oh well, it’s time for me to stick my neck out once more and give my all important prediction.
Prediction: 2-0 to United — Ronaldo and Rooney to score.
The frequent flier miles and finding favour with airline companies bit was made up by me, in case some of you hadn’t noticed.
Related items from Red Rants:- Porto it is then…
- Rooney Out For A Month
- Man Utd v Stoke: Preview
- Man Utd v Everton: Preview
- Man Utd v Spurs match thread
Tags: Game Preview
March 1st, 2008 at 11:00
RR its really hard not to predict a high score, esp aft how the team has been playing in the last matches,,so my prediction will be 4-1, thats if fulham try really hard, they will get that 1 goal..
saha might get the node ahead of tevez, considering the way saf has been talking bout him the whole week, have you noticed for once in a long time saha has been making headlines..
cant wait to see nani terrorising defences again and of course,,ronnie and rooney to shine,,,anderson should get his 1st goal
March 1st, 2008 at 11:00
I see this weekend being a curcial one. United will win 2-1 today with a brace from Saha… yup you read correctly!
Arsenal v A.Villa will be a close thought draw
while Chelsea will beat West Ham comfortably…
March 1st, 2008 at 11:43
so strongest side today then? if we do then im sorry but i see another 5 goals for us, and wether fulham scores or not doesnt matter.
March 1st, 2008 at 12:13
the side i would play is
vds
fab 4
ronny
scholes
andy
nani
rooney
welbeck
then on wednesday/tuesday
i would play
vds
fab 4
carrick hargreaves andy
ronny rooney nani
March 1st, 2008 at 13:21
ronny wont play fergie will save him for europe, tevez n rooney up front for me.
March 1st, 2008 at 13:51
My team for today:
VDS
Brown Rio Vida Oshea
Ronaldo Carrick Andy Nani
Rooney Saha
subs:
PIG Evra Owen Scholes Tevez
United to win 2-0 thanks to goals from Ronaldo and Saha. I would play Sheasy cause Fulham are a great “air-team”. And Saha cause Tevez deserves a rest; he should play on tuesday.
Dan- I doubt Welbeck will play when we have Saha, Rooney and Tevez fit. I would be shocked if he even was on the bench.
March 1st, 2008 at 13:52
Dan: Why are you so eager to play Welbeck? The lad hasn’t even appeared as a sub yet.
March 1st, 2008 at 14:04
JB, you gonna show the team news as soon as you get em?
March 1st, 2008 at 14:10
exactly, he hasn’t, and the only way i see him playing is if he plays now or at derby.
March 1st, 2008 at 14:12
great player sheringham, sad yet glad to see him hang up his boots.
March 1st, 2008 at 14:13
RedDevil: Will do, should have them in an hour or so!
Dan: Well your teams don’t have Tevez or Saha starting against Lyon, so we might as well play one of them today. I know Derby and Fulham are the easiest games left this season, but I wouldn’t count on today being enough of a walk in a park that we can blood Welbeck.
March 1st, 2008 at 14:21
thats true, and we need rooney in the team so yea ok welbeck out and saha in but im still hoping for a bench role
March 1st, 2008 at 14:39
http://www.tribalfootball.com/article.php?id=81106
bloody ‘ell, we should probably take this with heaps of salt.
March 1st, 2008 at 14:47
That Moggi gut is lyin! Ronaldo wouldnt have signed for them. If he means this summer I am REALLY surpirsed, but if it was last summer(2006) it wouldnt be big news.
March 1st, 2008 at 15:11
GK: VDS
RB: O’Shea
CB: Ferdinand
CB: Brown
LB: Evra
RM: Park
CM: Scholes
CM: Hargreaves
LM: Nani
CF: Tevez
CF: Saha
Subs: PIG, Pique, Anderson, Ronaldo, Rooney
March 1st, 2008 at 15:15
Given the reference to Salas and Cassano I would assume Moggi is talking about the period around 2001. This would be when Ronaldo first began to move through the ranks in the Sporting Lisbon youth/reserve teams IIRC. Talk about a quote out of context
March 1st, 2008 at 15:15
I dont know if I am pleased with the team. Its some good changes and some bad. Ronaldo and Rooney should have started, but I think Fergie is saving them for Lyon. Not pleased to see Park and Owen start, but the others are fine.
BTW; you got Fulhams team there JB?
March 1st, 2008 at 15:19
Fulham Team:
Niemi
Stalteri
Hughes
Hangeland
Konchesky
Johnson
Murphy
Bullard
Volz
Davies
McBride
March 1st, 2008 at 15:23
We should be able to beat them with our team! I still predict 2-0 to United; Saha and Scholes to score.
March 1st, 2008 at 15:39
no no no, where is rooney? rooney must come on half time for saha.
March 1st, 2008 at 15:39
I think that scholes will have to prove himself if he wants to recapture his place in the starting lineup against Lyon.
Lets see if he has the capability of mastering the midfield
March 1st, 2008 at 15:42
apparently its a 4-3-3 with park, saha and tevez up front (according to soccernet)
this should be interesting
and, worst comes to worst we’ve got 3 match-killers on the bench
March 1st, 2008 at 15:42
hmmm… dont like this side. hopefully we get the 3 points stll without to much panic…
March 1st, 2008 at 15:46
nah, if its 4-3-3 then park will be left centre, hargo, centre and scholes right centre with saha in the middle and tevez and nani interchangeable.
March 1st, 2008 at 16:02
any possible streams? doesnt seem that the channelsurfing one works
March 1st, 2008 at 16:04
Game TIME!! WHOO!! GLORY GLORY!!
March 1st, 2008 at 16:07
Saha!!! What a ball!
March 1st, 2008 at 16:17
THATS WHY WE BOUGHT HARGO!!!!
March 1st, 2008 at 16:17
and a new free kick taker was born!!!
March 1st, 2008 at 16:17
OWEN!!!!! YEAH GET IN THERE!!!
March 1st, 2008 at 16:17
goal .bloody brilliant owen bloody brilliant
March 1st, 2008 at 16:18
We shall not be moved!
March 1st, 2008 at 16:19
For streaming, http://www.myp2p.eu I’m streaming in class. Its great, get SopCast.
March 1st, 2008 at 16:29
villa up 1-0….woo hooo…
March 1st, 2008 at 16:30
arsenal losing yipeee
March 1st, 2008 at 16:32
villa beating arsenal 1-0 senderos og
March 1st, 2008 at 16:47
THREE LUNG PARK!!!!
March 1st, 2008 at 16:48
Scholes is majestic today. 0-2
March 1st, 2008 at 16:48
Who crossed the ball,no paul scholes is it?Yea who said scholes was finished?
March 1st, 2008 at 16:51
Scholes can still play,giggs no.
March 1st, 2008 at 16:52
Lampard Sent off crazy game in West Ham…
March 1st, 2008 at 16:54
heck with the way things are going i wouldnt be suprised if vds scored, firts hargo, then PJS, wow.
March 1st, 2008 at 17:02
and then there was 1… when is andy going to score, he is the only summer signing not to…
March 1st, 2008 at 17:04
Can the score at Emirates stay as it is, please?
March 1st, 2008 at 17:08
A couple of observations on the first half. After all my negative talk regarding Paul Scholes the good lord has decided to punish me and make me eat my words…..for today at least. Scholes has looked very good in the first half. Still, it is Fulham and I never said that he was a bad player. He has been a great player for 13 years and so there will be moments of brilliance from him.
Secondly, I have to question the wisdom of Fergie to sit down both Rooney and Ronaldo during a must win away fixture. Foolish I feel but he is coming up smelling like roses right now. Sometimes you just have to show your team you have confidence in them.
How about that Hargreaves free kick and also his dogged defending this half? I have been claiming for months ow that he should get more cracks at free kicks, especially the short range ones as he has a beautiful bending finesses free kick in his arsenal. Great to see his first goal. Finally, Fulham is just crap. The BPL should be reduced to 16 teams as there are too many teams like this that are just rubbish.
March 1st, 2008 at 17:10
4 or 5 pls! arse loosing! oh yes! nani,scholes and saha to score. come on the reds!
March 1st, 2008 at 17:18
Grognard, it seems that all United players are especially focusing on your comments. No offence but I think it’s time for you to start ranting about Wayne Rooney, so that he starts scoring for fun…
I repeat: no offence! Just a joke.
March 1st, 2008 at 17:54
comfortable 3-0 win
March 1st, 2008 at 17:56
Fuck arsenal scored in the last min
March 1st, 2008 at 17:56
CRRRRAAAAAPPPPPP arsenal equalised…
March 1st, 2008 at 17:58
a comfortable win! I did wonder at times why VDS was coming out and completley missing crosses when he had his defense to deal with things… maybe he was bored?
Real shame Arsenal got a last minute equaliser but we are so close now…
Oh and poor Newcastle haha, can we have Alan Smith back?
March 1st, 2008 at 17:58
heartbreak….how do they always manage to score in the last minute of the game…arseholes…neways…clearly the confidence is flowing in Manchester than in London..good MU quality football on display today…
March 1st, 2008 at 18:07
1 point away. Gutted Arsenal scored in the last minute but hey im sure all of you would have taken a draw for arsenal at the start of the game. it is still 2 points dropped, AND no win in 4 now for arsenal
March 1st, 2008 at 18:10
im thinking, is it not better us being a point behind then it is being top only on GD? there would be less pressure on the arse, now, being a point behind, they are nervous and the pressure is on them, more pressure=more mistakes which= more goals conceded.
March 1st, 2008 at 18:11
We got the best attack record back. Let’s go. Fuck the Arse, what’s one point? We still have to face them right? Confident performance, wonderful man management. Beautiful stuff. No complaints!!
March 1st, 2008 at 18:27
More tinkering from Fergie but out squad has so much quality we can beat lower table sides with only half our full team. That bodes well for the rest of the season as we’ll avoid a situation like Milan where our players were too tired to compete.
March 1st, 2008 at 19:17
I just looked at our results this season, and this is only Uniteds second game this season that we score only 3 goals! The other one was against Spurs in FA Cup. And Three different scorers too(!), that is amazing. Only one point behind now, wehave a great chance of winning our trophy…THE PREMIER LEAGUE!
March 1st, 2008 at 19:18
James F; You know I was having the same thought. If I wasn’t sure of this I’d say old Scholesy and Park both are avid readers of REDRANTS. All my negative comments about their play seemed to have motivated the heck out of them today. So I’ll take the credit thank you very much. Grognard is the Man of the Match for his interesting and very successful motivational techniques.
Now back to planet Earth. This was a very good performance by the side minus many starters.
They proved they could play most of the game without Rooney and Ronaldo but lets remember, it was only Fulham. With that said, certain players stepped up and performed very well. Therefore, here are my match ratings for the day. 1-10 with 10 meaning Superb.
van der Sar – 6/10 – Never really got tested but had some moments of stupidity where he punched out a ball he could easily have caught and also being caught out a few times.
O’Shea – 8/10 – Not much else you can ask from this player. Put him anywhere and he turns in a workmanlike performance. Unspectacular but very very steady and sure of himself.
Brown – 7/10 – Unspectacular but very sure and did a good job of marking as well as clearing the ball.
Rio – 7/10 – Rio is Rio. Steady as a rock and leading the way. Never had much to do although he made a few poor clearances that never cost us.
Evra – 7/10 – Nice runs down the line but he still cannot cross a ball. Defended well and never let anybody get past him or cross a meaningful ball into the box.
Park – 8/10 – Always has a lot of energy but today his first touch didn’t betray him like in the past. His header was a nice surprise. He looks to be match fit finally which is a bonus.
Scholes – 9/10 – OK OK he was the man of the match and showed everyone what has been missing for a season now. His willingness to attack and go forward. He sent more long balls that met their target today than he has in his last 15 games combined. He was also unlucky with some stupid fouls being called against him as he was aggressive today. Nice ball in to Park for goal number 2. Now can he do it two games in a row? He can’t start every game but every now and then some of the old magic shows. Again, lets not forget that this was Fulham he exploited.
Hargreaves – 8/10 – A very professional and competent display of marking and transition to offense. His free kick goal only strengthens my argument that he should take all the short free kicks for the team because he is that good at it. A sublime goal and a great effort all game long.
Nani – 8/10 – Made a meal of Stalteri all day. He is really coming in to his own and the confidence and beautiful dribbling is now more evident than ever. Imagine what kind of a player he will be in two seasons.
Tevez – 6/10 – Always works hard but he just is invisible at times without Rooney to play off of. Never really inspired today and missed a gimme header setup by Saha.
Saha – 7/10 – Perhaps many will think that I have given Louis a high grade but he worked hard and was good on the ball. Setup Tevez with what should have been a goal and trapped some long balls sent to him beautifully. Only thing that is missing is his finishing which was poor and the fact that he still needs to find himself more in the box. His effort was good and promising though.
Rooney – 6/10 – Not much time to really impose himself on the game but he worked hard as usual and found space. His first touch betrayed every time though.
Ronaldo – 6-10 – Like Rooney not much time to do much. Was nimble but I’m not so big a fan of his more central role these days. I like him wide and cutting in. He seems too goal hungry trying a few speculative long shots where a pass to another was the smarter play.
Anderson – ???? – Just not enough time to judge.
A good performance and a bright show for players who needed to show us more. Robnaldo and Rooney got some rest and Vidic and Giggs should be ready for Tuesday. Now if only Arsenal would know their damned role and lose a game they deserve to lose. They have been unbelievable in the BPL. They just don’t lose games. All those single points from draws may hurt us at the end because we gave away some games completely this season. Now lets finish of Lyon.
March 1st, 2008 at 20:17
Ferguson remarked: ‘I see it was the 95th minute of their usual seven minutes’ injury time.’
hahaha i agree but we have nicked a couple this season as well.
March 1st, 2008 at 21:30
Anybody noticed that for 20min our play was poor at the start of the second half?
I know i’m fickle, but there wasn’t much possession play at that time.
Didn’t watch the 1st half though. Guess I lost most of the entertainment.
March 1st, 2008 at 21:51
Ok lets not get ahead of ourselves here. Hargreaves scoring one freekick doesn’t just write off 18m worth of transfer fees and if he was so solid in defense where was he when Murphy had that great shot that VDS came to the rescue on. Scholes played exactly the same as he has all season with only one difference, he was playing the ball forward as soon as he got it instead of sideways and backwards. It was also nice to see him making forward runs. In no way is he past it but he has to stay in a forward mindset and not just hold up play but create and drive the team forward. Let’s hope he can keep it up.
March 1st, 2008 at 22:23
sorry please stop, you proved my point, hargreaves got forward more and murphy almost scored, and to be honest carrick cost 18mil and he only proved his worth recently, hargreaves has played a big part in are defence not conceding goals, wow, you complain when he gets back, you complain when he gets forward, he scored a blimmin free-kick(which ronny wouldn’t) yet he can do no good, get your head out your ass and face the fact that he is a world class player and your just fickle. Fuck sake.
March 1st, 2008 at 22:36
You know what,we shouldnt even be fighting for our league title.Our squad is far superior to arsenals.They are going to play the same squad till the end of the season.It doesnt work and it will show.Does anyone else notice rooneys touch,cause to me it just isnt right.Scholes looked back to his technical best.I knew he would get it.Scholes is class…
March 1st, 2008 at 22:38
Now im blank about the lyon game.Carricks on form,scholes looks good,hargo too.Andys been brilliant.No idea.
March 1st, 2008 at 22:48
DAN; Regarding Hargreaves, well said mate. The lad is world class and some pillocks out there need to wake up and smell the coffee. Where was he when Murphy had his shot? Jeez Liam he can’t frakken cover everyone at the same time. Perhaps you should point your finger at someone else for missing Murphy.
Big question for Tuesday. Who starts between Scholes, Anderson and Carrick as well as Nani and Giggs? I’m pretty sure Hargo will start. It is a CL game and that was what he was bought for. Nani is just in too good a form to be sat down in favor of Giggsy and the same goes for Carrick. But how do you sit down Mr. Anderson?
Scholes played well but Carrick deserves that start
March 1st, 2008 at 23:32
Grognard,I think fergie will go for experience.scholes will definately start
March 1st, 2008 at 23:34
it will be a 4-3-3 with hargo andy and carrick in the centre, saf wont put down hargo because of his expirence, andy hasn’t played a full match if i remember correctly for last few games and carrick didn’t have any involvement at all today, scholes played a full 90 minutes so i expect him on the bench, nani is just to good to be put on the bench, he truly is the a spawn of a gay couple, the trickery of ronaldo and the crossing of beckham, if rooney would just get his ‘touch’ back, we would be scoring goals against teams like milan at san siro for fun!
March 1st, 2008 at 23:48
Dan: I’m sorry but despite a recent improvement in form Hargreaves has yet to come anywhere near to justifying his £18m fee. He has, IMO, done less than Carrick had done at the corresponding time last season. And you are calling someone else fickle, the words pot, kettle and black spring to mind.
March 2nd, 2008 at 0:53
JB; Carrick wasn’t fighting a lingering injury for all of last season so your comparison is very unfair. Give Hargo the time to truly get acclimated to the BPL as well as fully fit and you will eat your words.
March 2nd, 2008 at 1:18
[Dan]
You tend to jump the gun a little too soon, don’t you? Give all players a little more time before judging them.
[JB]
And comparing him to Carrick is still premature in my opinion. I was impressed by him in the big games especially when he played alongside Anderson against Liverpool and Arsenal. But then, Fletcher and Smith had blinders in midfield against a marauding Chelsea in the 05/06 season. So I’ll keep my judgment to the tail end of the season.
The midfield combination is still a big talking point, and I think it will be so till the end of this season. In a way, it would be nice if SAF figures out which pairs of midfielders would work. If he gets two pairs (preferably distinct ones — like Carrick/Anderson and Hargo/Scholes, for example) then he could comfortably rotate them. It’s still a happy headache and signs that we have a squad with players getting themselves into title winning form.
March 2nd, 2008 at 1:19
What words will I eat, that Hargreaves has not performed the way he can to date? Because he hasn’t, injuries or no injuries. So far he has performed just about adequately, no more. I’m fully aware of his capabilities and was a supporter of the signing of him. If you cast you mind back I was (and am as part of a 3 with Anderson) a big advocate of a Carrick/Hargreaves central midfield. However that doesn’t mean that I haven’t been under whelmed by his performances so far. Thankfully there have been signs of improvement recently, let us hope he continues on that track.
I think we will be better placed to truly judge him next season with (hopefully) a full pre season behind him and time to adapt fully. I hoped he would be able to get used to United and the English game a bit quicker (his biggest problem seems to be holding on to the ball for too long, a big issue in a team built around doing everything at great speed) but any player from a foreign league should get at least a seasons grace in that regard.
As for the injury last yeat, whilst it was a bad one, it wasn’t a broken leg a la Eduardo/Smith. There definitely shouldn’t be lingering after effects more than a year after it, especially considering some of the CL performances he was putting in the second half of last season for Bayern. Regardless however, there are a number of our players who have been suffering from the after effects of injuries this season, who have been cut a lot less slack than Hargreaves has got.
March 2nd, 2008 at 1:28
I think we might have a go at Lyon with 4-4-2. Let’s face it, 0-0 is not a common scoreline for us so we really have to win the game and we’re going to do that by attacking not playing cagily and hoping we hit them on the break or make something out of a set piece. Lyon do not have a great defence so we can outscore them and if they score through a lucky break or a piece of magic from ben arfa or benzema then we are more than capable of scoreing two or more.
March 2nd, 2008 at 1:28
[JB]
About the cutting less slack bit with regards to other players, I think Saha has got all the patience in the world, Carrick/Scholes had a bit of an unfair treatment but then it was not as if the league was new to them. Hargo hasn’t had the luxury of settling into a rhythm because of his injuries. However, it must be said that he actually put in some dominant performances in the early part of the season when he played. Notably against City in August (although we lost that game) I know it’s not a very good metric but he did win the fans’ player of the year award for August despite making 2 appearances. It’s an indication that he hasn’t done too badly. But yes, it is still premature to judge him.
March 2nd, 2008 at 1:29
RR: The comparison I was making was that if Carrick hadn’t justified his £18m fee at this stage of last season with his perfomances, then there is no way Hargreaves has this year. Now there may be reasons for this, such as injuries, but that is all part of the overall package and just can’t be discounted when judging a player’s contribution.
March 2nd, 2008 at 1:47
Injuries have to be taken in to consideration when evaluating a player’s contribution against the money that was spent on him. Also, although Hargo’s injury was not as serious as Smith’s or Eduado’s, he does have the lingering problem of tendinitis in the knee which if you’ve ever suffered from tendinitis, is a total bitch to live with let alone play with. I agree that a full off season and a good pre-season will probably brig out his best next season. Still, I think he’s pretty damned good right now.
March 2nd, 2008 at 9:47
Goal scorers:
1 Cristiano RONALDO 29
2 Carlos TEVEZ 15
3 Wayne ROONEY 13
4 Louis SAHA 5
5 NANI 3
6 Ryan GIGGS 3
7 Rio FERDINAND 3
8 Darren FLETCHER 2
9 Gerard PIQUÉ 2
10 Paul SCHOLES 1
11 Nemanja VIDIC 1
12 Michael CARRICK 1
13 Owen HARGREAVES 1
14 Ji-sung PARK 1
15 Own goals 2(Gallas and Davies.)
Since the start of February, four United players have scored their first goal of the season. Those players are: Fletcher(2), Carrick, Park and Hargreaves. And if you look back and see that the last time a player scored his first goal of the season was back in October(Pique), I find this amazing! This seems to be the time when most players score their first goal of the season. Now its time for Anderson, Evra, Oshea and Brown! In that order
March 2nd, 2008 at 11:11
Red Devil- I was just thinking about that point myself! However, if you think about it, it isn’t that remarkable, as we have been resting many of our first team players recently, so the onus has been on others to score.
March 2nd, 2008 at 11:21
The best moment was that cross from Ronaldo!!
He loves that move… Only does it a couple of times in a season.
March 2nd, 2008 at 11:45
sorry i have really bad memory, i can only remember giggs scoring 1 goal…
March 2nd, 2008 at 13:35
Hargreaves may be English but he’s played all his life in Germany. It is a different league and all players are entitled to a season to adjust to the pace of the English game. His true value I believe will be in Europe as he’s got loads of Champions League experience.
March 2nd, 2008 at 14:04
Yea same here dan,the deflected goal against villa…
March 2nd, 2008 at 15:29
Giggs scored in the community shield against Chelsea, and he also scored in the 4-1 win over Derby, as well as that Villa goal.
March 2nd, 2008 at 16:08
MoYa- that cross from Ronaldo is called a Rabona!
March 2nd, 2008 at 16:36
community shield really shouldnt count for anything.
March 2nd, 2008 at 16:38
I think it should Dan! Its a trophy you can win and its against a top side.
March 2nd, 2008 at 16:39
In that case…if we win the treble this year it will actually be a quadruple!
March 2nd, 2008 at 16:44
Yeah, thats right Sam. I had actually forgotten that! When we won the CS, my first thought was that if we could collect every trophy possible this season we would win five trophies! Were out of the Carling Cup, but we can still win the quadruple. I hope we will.
March 2nd, 2008 at 16:59
Oh please, we are not Liverpool, we don’t count fake tin pot trophies like the CS or European Super Cup!!
March 2nd, 2008 at 17:35
The Charity Shield and the League Cup are nothing more than paper weights at OT. Let the sorry buggers at other lesser cubs scurry ike starving rabbits to possess such rubbish. For me they mean absolutely nothing. In fact any trophy that is won without putting out ones best eleven is total crap. My question to all of you is what trophy matter the most to you, is it the League or the European Cup? For me it’s the League because the CL has turned into an unattractive boring battle of wits and negative tactics. Any competition that involves Italians is bound to be political and boring as well. This is not an indictment against Italy itself, but it’s negative and unattractive style and method of football.
March 2nd, 2008 at 17:54
it would have to be the FA cup, its where even little teams can compete and say there one of the best, the CL to say we are the best Europe. what happened to the fifa club world cup?
March 2nd, 2008 at 18:48
The Fifa Club World cup still happens every year, but its still as worthless as the Carling Cup or Community Shield really. I think that I prefer to win the League again, because we know that if we win the League we’ll have won it in style, compared to the Champions League when we are a completely different team and in truth most of the time we are boring, which is why it suits Liverpool and AC milan so much
March 2nd, 2008 at 18:58
Premier League over everything!
March 2nd, 2008 at 19:16
Nah,I didnt experience 1999 so for me its the champs league.The leagues great but to be champions of europe is something else.Btw,negative tactics is part of football.We should play our game.
March 2nd, 2008 at 19:25
But Taehr in the Champions League we don’t play our game, thats the point. Only in the home games are we slightly similar, but in the Champions League every little mistake is punished with a much greater consequence so we’re too wary of being solid the whole way through the team that we don’t play the great attacking football we all love, although this season in the group stages we were more exciting than usual so who knows, but the Premier League is still a more exciting competition for the most part.
March 2nd, 2008 at 19:25
The league is probably a bigger accolade than the Champions League, especially now that so many quality players are coming to England.
However, it all depends on circumstances, and for United at this juncture I would prefer the Champions League (as compared to Liverpool, who would undoubtedly prefer the league, for example)
Our domination of the past 15 years is not reflected in European success, and for those of you who say you prefer the league, can you honestly say that, for you, the feeling when we won the league, say, in 2000 (ie for the second time in a row like it would be this year) was better than that of winning the CL in 99? That was a special feeling, Taehr, you are right, you need to experience it, and the rest of us crave experiencing it again. I think we have the squad to do it this time.
March 2nd, 2008 at 19:35
EPL for me too, but CL is not that bad, so it’s 2nd place for me. The braging rights from CL are huge
March 2nd, 2008 at 19:49
All 3… And why not? However we may play, we have the talent and the team to win all 3.
March 2nd, 2008 at 20:38
If fergie wasnt scared to play 4-4-2 we probably would do much better.What gets on my nerves is when we go a goal down we immediately switch to 4-4-2 to get back into the game.Like last year against benfica and against lyon.If 4-4-2 gets us goals then why not start with it.I think fergie looks to the opposing teams too much instead of focussing on our own talented players.
March 2nd, 2008 at 20:38
Any link for the fulham goals?
March 2nd, 2008 at 20:47
what age are you taehr?
March 2nd, 2008 at 22:18
Taher: To be frank a basic 4-4-2 formation is somewhat antiquated in modern European football. The formation and the attack, attack, attack approach was badly exposed in the 99/00 and 00/01 seasons by Madrid and Munich respectively. Just because we have botched a number of CL campaigns playing a more cautious system does not make it the wrong choice.
SAF first deployed a European system over a long term in 01/02. In that season it would have seen us to a CL final if it hadn’t been for a truck load of missed chances against Leverkusen. It would also have probably seen us to the finals the next year if we hadn’t had the misfortune of meeting the Madrid galactio era at their peak. After that until last season we were, simply put, not good enough to progress in Europe regardless of the formation used.
Look at the recent finals, Milan won playing a 4-3-2-1 last year, Barca a 4-3-3 the year before. Prior to that Liverpool were torn apart in the first half of the 2005 final in a 4-4-2 and only got back into the match after switching to a 3-5-2. Porto won in 2004 playing a 4-3-1-2 as did Milan the year before. You have to go back to Madrid in 2002 to find a team that played in something resembling a 4-4-2 and even then it was probably closer to a diamond formation.
March 3rd, 2008 at 0:46
Yakubu is a beast. We should have picked him up in the summer.
March 3rd, 2008 at 1:39
4-4-2 used to destroy European opposition back in the 70s and 80’s with the big successes of Liverpool, Nottingham Forest and Aston Villa. Seven trophies in and around a decade was phenomenal and Europes best clubs were terrified of playing the grinding English sides. Somewhere down the line things changed after England was banned for several years from the competition after the Rome disaster. Europe caught up and figured out how to beat the 4-4-2. Even so, it took an additional ten years before Fergie and others figured it out. It doesn’t work anymore because it leaves us vulnerable in the midfield. We can score from it but defensively we take our chances.
Fergie knows what he’s doing but it is not attractive to watch. The Cl is a disgraceful tournament to watch and it makes me sick to listen to those who think it is exciting. The only thing exciting is the idea of a team getting knocked out in the knockout stages. The group stage does not work and there are far too many teams and unworthy teams from tosser nations who don’t belong in the tourney.
The tourney may have prestige but it lacks in class and drama. It’s too political and all the drama queens, poor referees and negative tactics come out of the woodwork to make it a spectacle of rubbish. Most of this garbage originates from Italy and some from Spain. The two most dominant nations in the tourney’s history. A major overhaul in the rules regulations and criteria for the tourney needs to be made by UEFA. Good luck!!! I badly want to see United win the trophy for many reasons. First off it would be great for the team, city, country and for Fergie. Finally, it would help Ronaldo win the World Player of the Year award he was robbed of because of 3 good games Ricky Kaka had in the CL. As far as I’m concerned nothing beats the long struggle, drama and suspense, not to mention the quality of the Premiere League. Now if only we could get better referees and linesmen.
March 3rd, 2008 at 3:07
UCL is what we need 2 win this year.but even if we do CR7 won’t win
WPOTY coz its an award reserved 4 Milan,Madrid,Barca and Juventus
players.The premise of attack can still work in UCL if combined
with due caution and based mainly on counter-attack.Andrsn and OH should
start coz of balance of defensive and offensive attributes with a
dash of sensible energy
March 3rd, 2008 at 10:08
hey… i would like to ask for comments about Park? it seems the Asian guy is always under-rated or not talked much about, no matter how hard he works to justify himself. And if you watch the games he plays in carefully, you will realise that most footballers tend to “bully” him on the field. Even the referee wouldn’t make some calls that were really obvious. Am i wrong in saying this? your comments pls.
MAN U to win on tues! woot~!
March 3rd, 2008 at 10:17
What happened last year against AC Milan showed us all that form comes before formation if you want to win the UCL. SAF knows that very well now, and it seems that we are in much better shape this year. Injuries permitting, we’ll go all the way.
But we want the EPL too and that’s why I pray that Arsenal eliminate AC Milan this year, otherwise they’ll only have EPL to focus on.
March 3rd, 2008 at 12:12
Grognard: That is extremely harsh on the Champions League. It has its problems but it is hardly the disgrace you make it out to be. While the group stage mightn’t be the best invention in the world the tournament does produce its share of exciting football matches. The gripes about political interference in the CL are generally blown out of all proportion. As for the refereeing, it is no worse than in any other major tournament/league. I would also like to say that whilst I prefer my 4-3 matches, I can also enjoy a good bout of tactical battling and matching of wits (which is different from pitting two ten man defenses against each other).
Tactics tend to be a cyclical thing. You argue that it is riddled with negative tactics, yet the Premiership is only coming out of a rut of 4-5-1, defensive football in the last 18 months, whilst International football is currently a fairly turgid affair. Negative tactics are not an exclusively CL issue. The problem tends to be magnified with the preponderance of matches pitting top teams against each other. Look at the league matches between the top sides in England, they often end up cancelling each other out and it ends up a challenge at to who can grind out a result better (see ourselves versus Liverpool for example).
At any rate we faced two Italian teams last year and neither were 10 men defensive walls, they both went out there and played some good football (with varying degrees of success). It should also be noted that the finalists in 2006 were both expansive teams, with an eye on goal scoring first and foremost.
March 3rd, 2008 at 17:51
JB; You are making your case by pointing to a handful of CL matches that were exciting and thrilling. Overall though the league is brought down by too many unworthy teams playing 4-5-1 at home trying to scrape a point in the first round. The first round is the big culprit and it has to go. As for Italian sides, they do open up a bit once you get out of the group stage. Still they play the game like chess, slow and oh so plodding. Nothing against chess, I just don’t like it on the pitch.
As for the Prem, it’s not perfect either. Too many teams and too many teams playing 4-5-1 or 4-6-0 even at home. The good news is that good teams like United still find ways to break clubs like that down most of the time. Breaking down a quality side like Porto or Lyon when they play 4-5-1 can really be dull though.
What I would like to see is fewer teams in both. The Prem would be absolute Utopia if it wen down to 18 teams and 34 games while the CL needs to go back to a strictly home and away knockout formula that awards points for goals both away and home. I don’t mind a great 0-0 or 1-0 classic but too many of the games resemble watching bland white bread go stale on the kitchen table. I want to see the offensive explosion shown from the 70’s style of Total Football exhibited by clubs from Holland and Germany. Lots of goals and a lot of unpredictability. The game was fast, skillful and the tactics were positive. Above all their weren’t as much theatrics and drama queens ruining the games. All teams, even the poor ones felt an obligation to try to score and above all, entertain. Back then Germany, Holland and England ruled the roost because they were the only nations that could consistently supply attacking and talented teams to the tourney. Spain and Italy struggled because of their dull, slow and negative approach to the game. Between 1970 and 1985 German teams won 4 CL’s, Dutch won 4 and England won 7. Yes Aston Villa and Notts Forest weren’t exciting to watch but they still represented a league that played a positive brand of football. Sometimes one can learn from the past. If only. I know, I know, I’m dreaming.
March 3rd, 2008 at 18:39
[Grognard]
Well, then, by that logic, Chelsea-Liverpool matches must be outlawed for the good of the world. I see nothing awe inspiring with the kind of fare they dish out.
Reducing the league to 18? Maybe you could then remove Derby and Fulham. But you will still have the likes of Middlesbrough, Bolton, Sunderland (who at the moment are awful) to contend with. And the games between the big four (Arsenal-United aside) are always played against the back drop of caution, fear and respect for the other side.
It is the same when Real Madrid play Milan. The best sides always show caution against worthy opposition. But the CL has proved to be a better competition, because of the quality of players on offer. Nevermind the dire displays in the knockout rounds. It’s proved to be UEFA’s crown jewel without doubt.
March 3rd, 2008 at 23:58
The higher the competition the more stifling the coaching and tactics become. The CL is infested with Rafa types. Chess players who get a high on moving pawns around the board or toy soldiers on a map board. The problem is that they are not fans of the game. They destroy it with negativity and logical choices designed to not just neutralize the opponent but in turn their own teams. Rafa is the king of this kind of shite and that is why he does well in the CL. SORRY MATE BUT THAT’S NOT FOOTBALL! Go back to the days of Beckenbauer, Muller, Cruyff, Neeskens, Keegan and Rummenigge. The game was more wide open and a 1-0 game quite often felt like 4-3 game. Sure there would be poor defensive matches then too, but not like today. Back then 4-3-3 was the norm and the three up front were true forwards, not one striker up the middle and two wingers/midfielders playing wide and slightly in front of the central midfielders.
As for the Prem, two less crappy teams would go a long way to improve the quality of the league. Less games means more importance per match also. Personally I would love the Prem to be like Scotland, with only 12 teams. But that won’t happen ever. I just want to see the game go back to what it was. More open and more entertaining instead of 15 guys clogging up the midfield.
March 4th, 2008 at 0:26
Highly unlikely that you would see a better league with 2 less teams. The stakes are just too high and teams are afraid to lose. It’s these situations where I feel the Spanish League is a lot more technical and any team can beat any other — and not by clogging the midfield. There are many situations where you see lower rung teams play the better ones off the park. Case in point, Atletico Madrid (the perennial underachievers) just outplayed barca off the park with a 4-2 win.
March 4th, 2008 at 0:45
I’m sorry Grognard but what you refer to is a natural development of the game. You may not like it, I may not like it, but there is nothing you can do about. The increased money in the game, the superior organisation of teams and improved physicality of players has all come together to encourage an increasingly defensive style of play. Changing the CL to a solely knock out format doesn’t do anything to impact on the key contributing factors in this shift. I also disagree with this notion that the CL is infested with negative managers. The CL has no bigger problem with turgid managers than any major domestic league or international competition has.
As for the PL issue, you argue that reducing the league to 18 teams increases the importance of each match. Fair point, but since the stakes are even higher, will that in turn not cause the strugglers to become even more desperate to avoid defeat and exacerbate the problem. I fail to see how the SPL is an appealing advert for a 12 team league and that isn’t even taking into account the logistical disaster zone that is the split league format.
March 4th, 2008 at 4:53
JB; The money involved in the CL now makes teams and their managers very negative. Getting a positive result like 0-0 draw means they live to play another day. 25 or 30 years ago lesser teams were just happy to compete. They never played with delusions of grandeur and although there was an occasional upset, they played to win by trying to outscore their opponent. Today they play not to give up goals and if they are lucky to get to the knockout round then they play the same way and hope for a shootout. It makes for awful football.
Still, I do disagree with you. The game has evolved and we cannot go back. That is why retro, nostalgia etc is such a craze in pop culture. Because many people like me don’t like the present status quo. In order to make the games better and not what you refer to in your last post, we need to reward the scoring of goals by offering incentives to do so. I would be so brave as to offer an extra point for every goal over 2 and subtract points to both clubs for goalless draws. Yes it’s radical and it’s just ideas I am throwing out there but the game is somewhat broken. It is too dependant on finances and antiquated rules that reward defense over offense. The game should do whatever to promote goal scoring and more open play with less fouling, diving, acting and gamesmanship designed to infuriate the fans.
March 4th, 2008 at 10:05
You are right that the money involved in the CL can make managers defensive in the group stages. However as I said earlier it isn’t a CL exclusive issue. The Premiership has the exact same problem in that regards, so it is a bit unfair to hammer the CL for it.
As for the changes in the points scoring for goals, it’s a nice idea in theory, but not one I would go for. I am not a big fan of fiddling with sports basic rules to try and make it more exciting, it makes the whole thing seem hollower to me. I am a big Formula One fan but I hate the constant twiddling about with rules in an effort to make the sport more appealing.
If it isn’t a sweeping generalization, may it be a case of a culture clash? Europeans always have seemed more content with low scoring in sporting activities in comparison to North Americans. I like plenty of goals, but if loads of games were ending up 3-2, 4-3 etc, it would lessen the appeal for me and cheapen the value of the ‘real’ classic games.
March 4th, 2008 at 18:15
The money and the prestige with winning in the CL is immense. That at to the pressure to win or move forward at all costs. This creates caution and negativity. Yes other leagues have it but football and it’s governing powers need to correct the problem, especially in it’s largest and most prestigious international tournaments like the CL, World Cup, and European Championships. In South America where the money is not as big the problem is not as widespread. They still try to score goals over there. The last Copa for example was a goal feast.
I too like and appreciate a good and tense low scoring battle. But not if it is so stifling and negative that you can see it go on forever without a goal. In North America the game of pro hockey was suffering from the very same negative problems I have been mentioning. For 12 years the game was getting faster, bigger but harder to score and many of the talented players were no longer able show off their skills because of the increased physicality as well as the defensive systems in place, especially one designed to stop fast flowing breakouts known as the Neutral Zone Trap. Add to this goaltender equipment that was so large that it took away space for players to shoot at goal. Over the last three years the NHL and hockey in general have worked hard to get rid of a lot of these negative influences in the game. Rule changes in penalties, equipment restrictions and style of play have been introduced and they have helped, but more is still needed. Football needs a lot of fixing up to. Give the game back to the Messi’s, Ronaldo’s, Ronaldinho’s and Riquelme’s, and not the Rafa’s, Terry’s and bottom feeder managers who will set up 10 men in their box to defend at all costs. The game is riddled with cowardice. I say this as a North American and so your comment on culture clash is very valid. But what or who is to say that North American demands for bravery and an offensive approach to sports is wrong. I’d rather watch a World Cup final like 1966, 1970, 1974 and 1986 rather than 1990, 1994 and 2006, Need I mention the problem with the history of the European Cup and all its 1-0 finals. Free the game up again so that it’s beauty flourishes.