Jul 23
Glazers defend Ferguson, and United’s Asian Invasion
This has been a topic I had been meaning to touch upon for a while but haven’t until now.
Tim Rich, who seems to be The Guardian’s man accompanying the United travelling party, has been doing his share of sending postcards from the far-east. Topics covered in his daily dispatches range from describing the boredom of our poor, grossly overpaid, footballers [boo, hoo. The players have exhausted their stockpile of DVDs and can't get out of their hotel rooms. How are they ever going to survive? Cue: an idea for network executives for a pilot of 'I'm a Premier League footballer, get me out of this claustrophobic, yet plush hotel room'] to pointing us towards the 1.2 million South Korean owners of Manchester United credit cards, for the 98247th time.
But in between the humdrum that is expected of these pre-season travel diaries, comes two interesting pieces, one about comments from the Glazer camp, and another on United’s commercial interests in Asia.
The Glazer family comments [rather the comments of his spokesman] have already been out for a while now; blogs [it's been briefly touched upon here], and mainstream media outlets in general have already been talking about it for over two days.
Tehsin Nayani, the spokesman defended Ferguson’s spending. He made it clear that the manager has £60m to spend. Some of it is quite interesting, and mildly [well, if you look closely, grossly] ironic; well get to it in a bit:
The manager has a significant amount of money to invest if he wants to. The delay has been because the manager has not been able to locate the players he believes fit the Manchester United mindset -– players who are motivated to play for United. You don’t want mercenaries and you don’t want to pay over the odds for players not willing to give their all for the club.”
If, for a moment, you stand back and decide to not read in between the lines and not second-guess, it could possibly point towards Ferguson learning from the Ronaldo and Tevez experience. Granted, both players’ cases could be debated either way, but Ferguson seems to be in a mindset of identifying players would gladly sign for United. Of course, this logic falls flat in the face of our attempts to sign Benzema, who clearly had his head turned towards the Iberian peninsula.
But it’s hard to imagine the manager not finding anyone of reasonable quality who’d be glad to wear the Red shirt. I am certainly behind Ferguson’s decisions, based on how he’s managed to come out well in face of criticism. I am willing to give him the benefit of doubt, because he has so clearly earned that right from fans. But I do scratch my head, at times, at some of the very good defensive midfielders and attackers we have actually let slip.
But the under-26 policy, this theory of not buying ‘mercenaries’ [of course, the irony bit was, these comments were made during a money spinning tour of the far-east, signing deals left, right and centre] all explain, sort of, the mindset Ferguson has adopted this summer. He sees the inflation of prices brought about by Real Madrid and Man City as far from ideal situations to dip into the market. [As an aside, some fans have blamed Ferguson for accepting a fee of £80m, hence causing an explosion of transfer fees in the market -- which I find absolutely ridiculous. If Ferguson had a choice, he wouldn't sell Ronaldo. Imagine the outrage from the same set of fans had he told Madrid that he'll sell him at a lower price, so that this act of philanthropy on his part wouldn't inflate the market. ]
Obertan, Mame Biram Diouf and Owen were bought for a combined fee of about £10m; Valencia at £17m. So a further £60m budget means Ferguson was handed a £90m war chest. I am not going to judge these signings till I see them in action in the season, but, for what it’s worth, this summer we’ve learned a lot more about our transfer strategy than we ever have in the Glazer era.
* * *
I’ve grumbled along at how almost every conceivable European powerhouse is busy scurrying about in sunny California, or sweltering Dallas or, umm, (I don’t know the weather) Baltimore, selling shirts, and playing some football in front of packed houses, yet, Manchester United somehow manage to stay away from the soccer-fuss here in Stateside. I can understand why United see Asia as the bigger market. Apparently they are looking at billion-strong India next year. Conquer China and India, and you’ll have over a third of the world’s market covered. With rumours of Manchester United cafes in India, that would be the next frontier indeed. I am still puzzled that a club as commercially savvy as United would choose to consciously ignore the American market when there has been a sea change in the general perception of the game in the US.
Perhaps, Tim Rich and Dominic Fifield (the Guardian’s US pre-season correspondent) should do a joint piece on the merits of touring one continent over the other.
Meanwhile the club continue to rake in the dough, with football being incidental for now. At least, until they return to Munich for the friendlies against more serious opposition.
Related items from Red Rants:
- Glazers: Manchester United is not for sale
- Media Avalanche of Glazer-Debt Stories Gathers Pace
- links for 2010-01-19
- The Glazer Financial Breakdown
- United’s Road to Recovery Just Around the Corner
Tags: Daily Roundup · Opinions/Columns
July 23rd, 2009 at 8:01
Well ok, so Fergie has been handed the 90 mil, but considering 80 of those were earned by selling Cris Ron, does it mean Fergie is given 10 million every season in which we don’t sell a player? Are we below the level of Sunderland now in the transfer market?
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want us to be a Madrid, but the owners could at least show the manager a bit more decency and 15 mil extra quid?
July 23rd, 2009 at 8:03
@RedRanter, in the link you posted on Facebook,
here’s a quote from it explaining briefly why they don’t push too much for the US
“Despite United’s links with Nike, based in Seattle, they have found it a difficult market to break and have no immediate plans to return.”
if there is a sea change, looks like the other big clubs are pushing it this year, so instead of competing directly, they’re taking the lucrative “low hanging fruit” in other areas with not much competition basically.
Good article mate.
July 23rd, 2009 at 8:17
Good Post RR. And i totally agree with you on the point of Inflation. I mean i have been debating with Grog on this for a while now. As we all know that, one of the most important reason for inflation can be excess liquidity in the market. If a person is ready to buy a commodity at a absurd price and allowing the seller to earn Supernormal return then why on earth will he deny that. Specially, when that commodity is itching to get consumed by that buyer.
I mean the matter is very simple Gaffer had no option but to accept that. If RM would have not come up with such mad amount of money the markets would have not been the way they are today. In fact, i will claim that MU and AC have helped to calm the market down to some extent. Just imagine the state of the market it could have been if MU and AC together would have put another what GBP 150 mn approx in the market.
So i totally agree that Gaffer can’t be held responsible for the kinda we are witnessing.
July 23rd, 2009 at 8:19
Even i am feeling amazed with the fact that he is not finding the players who are ready play in United RED. I mean he should refer to posts from GROGY on our blog and he will come to know at least 10 players who will play for United RED…
July 23rd, 2009 at 8:51
Agree to a certain extent that we are being careful in the market. In fact Milan also seems to not wanna go out and spend Kaka’s money. OR they need it for their books. But i dont agree with the fact that Fergie has not been able to find a single big signing willing to join the Club. I dont think we have seriously tried to get Aguero who might be worth the amount being quoted. Hell, we played 32 for Berba ( am not a big fan really and still think he aint gonna improve this year) so we might as well pay the Aguero amount OR we could have upped the amount for Benzema. Imagine a situation where Rooney (hopefully never) is out injured, we have NO ONE upfront who can make up for the loss of Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez. We will probably struggle to score against the likes of Bolton, Fulham, Stoke in such a scenario! I dont think Berba/Owen or Berba/Kiko are good enough.
July 23rd, 2009 at 9:01
@ Godzilla
“Imagine a situation where Rooney (hopefully never) is out injured, we have NO ONE upfront who can make up for the loss of Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez.”
Two words for ya mate, Ryan Giggs!
He played thru the middle quite oft last season, and in the hole, where Roon plays for England, against Inter Milan. If at all Rooney is out again this December (his annual ritual) Giggsy could do a mean job…
July 23rd, 2009 at 10:05
What worries me is that it seems that without the Ronaldo sale it seems we would have had zero to spend in the transfer market this year. This is despite having two of our best back to back seasons on field.
July 23rd, 2009 at 10:11
We do not need any new players for gods sake.We already have a large squad of mainly promising players willing to take their chance,and come to think about it,there are not too many stars available at present no wonder the transfer fees are sky high.
All we need is a good coach and a good mentality especially approaching big games and we will be fine.We keep hearing of chelseas and liverpools midfield being way ahead but for three years they have won nothing and are not getting any younger.
I would rather we save the money for when we need it.When we see a star that can improve the team tremendously.The Ronaldo issue,well no one can replace ronaldo but we need more teamwork,strikers to stay up and stop mad running around in the name of ‘working hard for the team’ whioch i call covering the inadequacies.
July 23rd, 2009 at 10:14
@godzilla: Unfortunately it does not matter what u think! What matters is what the gaffer thinks and he thinks the likes of Owen and Macheda are good enough!
Its most likely a transition year so lot of positives to look forward to. How will Nani and Ando come up (will they be able to deliver), can hargo return, can Gibson step up and become Gerrard II, can Macheda/Welbeck do enough to make Fergie not go out in market again etc etc. I am really really excited about this season, even more than last season. We have got rid of some good deadwood (Ron and Tevez) and now is the time to rebuild and show our faith in youngsters…
July 23rd, 2009 at 10:45
@jos: i do agree with you i think fergie wants to try out the kids in the same way as with the class of 99 so maybe we might fail horribly but then again we might unearth some gems its all about IF n BUTS so we all can just wait n watch n then HANG fergie or parade him around as the best that he is….
July 23rd, 2009 at 11:05
The Glazer representitave said that the interest on the debt is £45M. Our operating profit is £80M. We pay the interest and buy players and then the coffers are empty.
They make claims about United being in a strong financial position, but how the hell are we going to pay back the debt? We cant continue to pay interest.
I swear to god I will never be able to grasp and make sense of the Americans business models. They just do things differently.
July 23rd, 2009 at 11:10
Can someone please explain how we going to rid the debt and start making profits?
July 23rd, 2009 at 11:40
Jeez, rumours spreading about Maradona having some job with Portsmouth. Talk of Aguero going there. I think I’m going mad.
July 23rd, 2009 at 12:35
I just came across a news bit regarding the David Trezeguet. I was wondering what is it about the man. I mean the man has awesome record a goal in every 2 matches almost. So I was wondering one thing…. I found few people talking about we need 4 strikers as we are going back to the route of 99 then who will be the fourth striker who can come to us and still will be happy to get substituted or a part of the rotation system.
Then Why not him??? He is available for mere GBP 4-5 mn if sources are right and he will kinda Sheringham of this team like it was in 99.
I know there will be many who may come and bash my thinking or question intelligence, as I also received lot of bashing when, I suggested last time that we need to sign a striker who is in his late 20’s or early 30’s like we did with Henrik Larson. But, see now after OWEN is in every one is trying to find +ve out of it!!!
So, I won’t mind any bashing but, still I would maintain we can at least have check on him that’s all!!!
July 23rd, 2009 at 12:37
@Cyclops-Red: Don’t worry the day Maradona would come to Portsmouth it will go into relegation with all its money. And if at all ‘Kun’ is going to Portsmouth after relegation he say Fuck off to that druggist cheat and will take a Route to Man UTD (at least hope..)
July 23rd, 2009 at 13:11
This, this just had to be posted. From redcafe of course:
Liverpudlian Rhapsody (to the tune of Bohemian Rhapsody)
Is this our Stevie?
Captain of LFC?
Arrested in Southport
All caught on CCTV.
Open “The Sun”
It’s there on Page One, you’ll see.
I’m just a Scouser
I need some help
Because I’m Huyton-born, Huyton-bred
Once a Blue, now a Red.
Whatever the truth is, it doesn’t really matter to me.
[Piano: Dumm di dum dum, dumm di dum dum]
Rafa! It’s Stevie here.
I’ve just t*watted a DJ
And they’ve taken him away.
Rafa, we were four points clear
But now I fear we’ll throw it all away!
Rafa! Ooooooooooh.
Didn’t mean to make you sigh
If I’m not back in time to play at Preston Tinker on, tinker on, my career is all in tatters….
[Piano: Dum di dum di dum, dum di dum di dum]
Too late! It’s Walton Jail.
I don’t think that I can cope
I can’t bend down for the soap.
Goodbye everybody – I’ve got to go
Gotta leave the Kop behind and face the Bench.
Rafa! Ooooooooooo! (Anyway the sh*it blows) I don’t want to go to jail I sometimes wish I’d never joined Liverpoo-ool!
[Piano, guitar and stuff]
I see a little silhouetto of Hamman
There’s ,more dosh, there’s more dosh if I sign for Man City But joining such a sh*ite team is very very frightening to me
Calling Barry
(It’s Rick Parry)
Calling Barry
(It’s Rick Parry)
Calling Barry! He’s Magnific-o-o-o-o
I’m just a poor boy from a Scouse family He’s just a poor boy from a Scouse family Spare him his job says Co-Coach Sammy Lee
Piano: Tinkle, tinkle tinkle
Easy come easy go! Will you let me go?
It’s me, La!
No! We will not let you go! Let him go!
It’s me, La!
No! We will not let you go! Let him go!
No no no no no no!
Rafa! Sammy! Rafa! Sammy! Rafa! Sammy! Get me out!
A Big House con has a shower set aside for me! For meee!
For meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
[Big Guitar Riff]
So you think you can say my career’s in decline!
So you think you can suggest my kids are not mine!
Oh DJ! Can’t do this to me DJ!
Just gotta get out! Just gotta get right outta here!
[More guitar and then the slow bit]
My career is now in tatters
Anyone can see
Nothing really matters! Nothing really matters to me!
July 23rd, 2009 at 13:11
@Natzca: Nike isn’t based out of Seattle, your prolly thinking about Microsoft. Nike world HQ’s is in Beaverton, Oregon which is a suburb of Portland
July 23rd, 2009 at 13:20
@Ishaq: By signing a new 10 year lease on our club shop with Nike for about £600mil in 2011.
July 23rd, 2009 at 13:22
@Ishaq: The American buisness model is to avoid using your own money at all cost. Saddle the company with debt, then cook the books to make investkrs think they are printing money. Then sell it to some other greedy man who will do the same thing. They will do this until someone is left with the bill, who won’t be able to pay it…
July 23rd, 2009 at 13:22
@Ishaq: Arab trillionaires.
July 23rd, 2009 at 13:22
@Dan: Rhapsody
Absolutely Amazing
July 23rd, 2009 at 13:29
Why cant the Glazers sacrifice that American football team of theirs?
July 23rd, 2009 at 13:33
@Ishaq: Because they actually enjoy American football. United is purely buisness to them.
July 23rd, 2009 at 13:38
@Ishaq: Dont be so naive.
Why would the glazers let go of one of their major assets? they get money from united and football, why take away one and invest everything into as something as association football? Imagine if they had bought leeds! it would be madness for them, great for us, but poor fot them.
Further more, why would an american sell a club he owns in americas top sport, for something english?
July 23rd, 2009 at 13:43
Fuck the Glazers! Does the bloody debt not sit on their shoulders? How do they wake up every morning knowing that they are barely meeting the interest payments.
July 23rd, 2009 at 13:47
Because the worst case scenario is ; they start failing to make payments, they sell to a wealthy oil man. It’s a win win situation. If they sign the contracts they need they’ll end up owning United with no debt without spending a cent of their money. If they don’t they sell it and still haven’t spent a cent.
July 23rd, 2009 at 13:50
@Dan
If all they care about is money then Im pretty sure United would be making them truckloads of money if we wernt using half the operating profit on interest payments. Sell the American team, clear the debt, start making real profits, and in 15 years they would have enough to buy TWO American teams.
July 23rd, 2009 at 13:55
@Ishaq: If malcom glazer is alive for the next 15 years id be surprised
July 23rd, 2009 at 14:00
@Dan:
July 23rd, 2009 at 14:14
In order to continue in the same vein of financial “health” (by which I mean not crumbling under our enormous debt) we have to continue to reach at least the semi finals of the champions league and successfully defend our league crown EVERY single year. If either our revenue stream decline or our status as champions, things can go very wrong, very quickly. The Asian market can be fickle and are always more receptive to Champions than runners up and teams with big name players etc. I see no great star appeal in our squad other than Rooney, which will hurt our marketability in the long run. Furthermore, negative changes in marketability will be geninunely complicated by their notorious counterfeit merchandise practice, which is similar to walking into a store and stealing a shirt or buying from an unaffliated third party. This problem is of greater concern because it is more pervasive and much more attractive in a recession, so i feel that it will contribute to a decrease in liquidity.
July 23rd, 2009 at 14:19
@Roge9: exactly, which is very unreasonable to think we will do that whilst we are semi re building our squad.
July 23rd, 2009 at 14:29
@Roge9: What about Park’s appeal in the Asia market, that must be a marketing man’s dream?
July 23rd, 2009 at 14:30
@Roge9: Did you not see how mad they went for Michael Owen in Asia? Or most of the players for that matter. 100,000 people chanting Ben Foster’s name when he was the first out of the tunnel to warm up before the first match… 100,000 people going crazy for our backup keeper. With the move into India next year our profits will only increase.
The Glazers are American, yet keep their team away from America. The obvious reason is that they see how little football matters there. Why should they fly us out to America to fight for a small amount of potential fans, where there are 2 billion possible people in Asia and India for us to aim at. Taking us to America would be nothing more than a vanity project… ‘look at what we bought’. It isn’t good business.
As far as owners go, if we imagine they bought the club with their own money they have been the perfect owners.
They’ve stayed away, left the people who know the club to run the club, invested in the stadium, make good money available for transfers, increased operating profits and sorted out bigger better sponsorship contracts across the board.
That’s better than Abramovich or Gillette & Hicks who have done so much to undermine managers and team affairs and talk nonsense to the press. I’m coming across like a massive Glazer fan or something, I’m not. I wasn’t happy when they took over, and if a Saudi Billionaire came in tomorrow I would love it, but the fact remains…. we could have done a lot worse.
All this because of a bloody racehorse!
July 23rd, 2009 at 14:53
Saw United v Celtic in Philly a few years back, lincoln financial field was absolutely packed. One of the coolest experiences of my life: getting keano’s autograph at practice before the game.
July 23rd, 2009 at 15:22
@Traverse: Spot on mate. It is so very amusing how people get on here and philosophize just how bad things are run at United when the only truth to the matter is that they are all speculating-bottom line is no one truly knows how things are run and how the debt is being taken care of.
July 23rd, 2009 at 15:30
@Traverse: as owners they are OK, not great. Great owners don’t saddle clubs with heavy debts that are not in the process of being paid off. The debt has to become smaller and the owners should be fans of the club. At least Chelsea knows that Abramovich will not run from the club when things go sour – because he is a fan. I still hate both Glazers and Abramovich.
July 23rd, 2009 at 15:32
@[OPTI]Madschester United: should be a fan? like mike ashley you mean
July 23rd, 2009 at 15:39
@Dan:
July 23rd, 2009 at 15:49
@[OPTI]Madschester United: Abramovich isn’t a fan, Chelsea is a play thing for him and when he gets bored he will walk away.
July 23rd, 2009 at 15:57
Yeah…United haven’t been Stateside since was it Ruud’s first preseason.
July 23rd, 2009 at 16:26
@Stephen: Park is popular primarily in South Korean: identity marketing. In more populous countries like Indonesia and China, he’s not as popular… so I’ve heard from my friends who live there
July 23rd, 2009 at 16:33
Remembe Forlan’s miss? That was superb…
July 23rd, 2009 at 16:34
@Traverse: my post was predicated on the fact that we are current champions of england and european runners up, so our visibility and relevance in the football world is at a peak. I dont think we would or can command the same attention unless we continue our excellence, and i feel it will take some time before this team win anything. With what Madrid have done, they are going to poach a significant slice of that market from under us. They have no choice but to market aggressively, and if they manage to dominate as their talent laden teams appears capable of, it could stall us or at least diminish any inroads we’ve made. I feel most of Asia, sad to say, are glory hunters and follow the trophies. If we fail to win any, which is possible, our popularity, marketability and fan base will fluctate accordingly.
July 23rd, 2009 at 16:35
@ Roge9 – Which raises the important question – where is Dong!?
July 23rd, 2009 at 16:36
@[OPTI]Madschester United: Nobody knows that. One more divorce and he is ruined! Ken Bates will be back, walking around the stadium with a bucket of coins shouting ’save the bridge’. Our results on the pitch have not been hampered since the Glazers took over, and as long as the boss is happy, I am happy.
July 23rd, 2009 at 16:39
@Roge9: That’s only if Madrid start winning things. That is not guaranteed. Are they any less likely to concede 4 or 5 goals a match in the Champs League this season? They might score one or two more, but they have no defence.
July 23rd, 2009 at 16:40
@Traverse: If i remember correctly, from reports I read in the past, they did invest some of their own money… about some 200 million or so. They couldn’t have secured the risky hedge funds and loans they did without demonstrating some degree of faith, though small by comparison.
July 23rd, 2009 at 16:43
@Beachryan: In a toilet can, where he belongs
July 23rd, 2009 at 16:49
@Traverse: well I did mention that as a caveat, but they seem poised for success. And whereas Ronaldo never tracks back, Kaka doesn’t mind doing the little things. L. Diarra will provide excellent cover for the defense to allow others to express their attacking whims. And keep in mind, this Madrid team has enough talent to keep the ball for extended periods, not barcelona-esque, but in Pellegrini they have a coach who tactically disciplined.
July 23rd, 2009 at 17:22
I think fergie is biding his time until players of the right catergory emerge.
I think Owen will prove to be a suprisingly shrewd piece of business and he’s right not to invest in mercinaries.
July 23rd, 2009 at 17:38
@Roge9: and fired by christmas!
July 23rd, 2009 at 18:12
No doubt our marketing strategy in Asia will eventually reap reward but this could be 10,15,or 20 years down the line. From purely a cynical, commercial view wouldn’t 5 million die hard fans from North America be worth more than 100 million fans from Asia in the short to medium term?
July 23rd, 2009 at 18:17
@Traverse:
July 23rd, 2009 at 18:22
@Traverse: he’ll survive at least a year.
July 23rd, 2009 at 19:24
@Cyclops-Red: I don’t know what long term strategy you’re talking about. Asia remains big both short and long term. For instance, we went to Saudi Arabia in December that net us £1m. But the actual idea of that trip was to sign a deal with Saudi Telecom which net United a cool £9m. Similar deals have been signed in India, China and the Far East. It was reported that the deals we signed this year in Asia alone will net us £80m. So it’s not just long term but short term as well.
However I personally think we are underestimating the US market. True, we found it hard in the past. Even last year when Chelsea played in Qwest field at Seattle, they attracted only about 25,000 fans. This year it was packed to the rafters at 67k. Every single pre-season game this year in the US has been jam packed — 67k attendance in Seattle, 81k in Pasadena & 70k tickets (sold out) for this Friday in Baltimore.
Last year’s Euros, this year’s Confederations cup, ESPN’s entry into serious football coverage by signing deals to show La Liga and Bundesliga this year leading up to next year’s World Cup, all make the American market a serious proposition for United.
In short, while I think United’s ambitions in Asia are justified, I think they should be viewing the US as well with equal seriousness.
July 23rd, 2009 at 19:40
@redranter
I was just looking at our current revenue £257m.
£100m comes from tickets/corporate at OT
£90m comes from Domestic TV/CL money
which leaves 67m from other sources ie sponsorship/endorsements
The Asian market certainly reaps rewards in the short (and strategically long term) but I am merely questioning whether 5 million die hard fans lets say spending 50 dollars per head bringing in an extra 250 million dollars p.a would be achievable.
July 23rd, 2009 at 20:41
@Red Ranter:
Sorry forgot to press the link
July 23rd, 2009 at 20:50
in RR’s article it says we spent a combined fee at 10 mil for obertan, diouf and owen. If obertan was 3 and owen was free, diouf cost us 7 million pounds!!! thats a lot of money (obviously nothing compared to other transfers but still) for god sakes lets hope he is good!
July 23rd, 2009 at 20:50
@Red Ranter: I understand what your saying. But i have come to a conclusion that united are playing it safe with asia rather then USA.
Like you said, its only this year they’re are starting sell out games, and show matches from different leagues across europe. They are only at the beginning of their development. Whether they carry on with this after the world cup is up to them, this football craze in america you’ve been talking about, could just be the flavour of the month for them, and i think UTD recognise this, and would rather play it safe and venture asia, rather then go to america where its still “raw” if you know what i mean.
NFL is still bigger then soccer in america, and the glazers would know this first hand.
July 23rd, 2009 at 20:53
@Anthony Los: TBH, we dont know how much we paid for diouf. Just like valencia, its undisclosed, the prices quoted can be all over the place, and really, the only people you can trust are sky and manutd.com obviously.
July 23rd, 2009 at 20:58
@Anthony Los: American’s consume luxuries (read: football jerseys, scarves, etc..) just not DURING a recession. Asia is better for now. Later, go to the US.
We also have Tamba Bay Buccaneers as our gateway to America… same colors even. That is, if Glazers stick around.
I say next year we will do US+Asia tour (2+3 games) 3 weeks total. Just my guess.
July 23rd, 2009 at 21:01
@[OPTI]Madschester United: Nah, not until after the world cup minimum(I know the tour would be after the next world cup, but directly afterwards, we need to see if the americans truly embraced it first before making commitments we might regret later).
Tbh, to me it would be more logical to wait after the next EUROS, thats when we will see if they are well and truly bonkers for soccer.
July 23rd, 2009 at 21:08
@Ishaq: someone on here last week said that the lease of the united mega store was coming up for renewal and the estimates were in the area of a pending 700m gbp bid from nike.
maybe someone else can link it.
July 23rd, 2009 at 21:15
@Traverse: agree with that man im not a fan of theirs but am a fan of both of their teams.
and they have done good so far with united. they say we have 60 ish+ out of the 80 from ronny. they are talking a good game we will see if we need to spend if everyone is silling.
July 23rd, 2009 at 21:19
@Dan: Actually it hasn’t been a flavour of the month. Soccer has grown exponentially ever since Fox Soccer Channel was launched about 3 years ago. But the reach of FSC was limited due to cable packages.
ESPN is not the first network to cover the Bundesliga or La Liga. Why this is significant however is because it reaches 1/3rd of the US population, and has actually started giving a damn about soccer. I’ve always maintained that soccer didn’t catch up in America because the major media companies did not want it to succeed — this is because of the way football is designed, the lack of commercial breaks is a nightmare for advertisers. But with the increase in ratings of some of the matches (better than hockey and baseball btw), and the fact that John Skipper (VP at ESPN) is a big soccer fan, ESPN has started to give a fuck about it here. There is far too much ignorance in the British press about Americans and soccer. Most of the stereotypes that were true about it, maybe 5 years ago, and are no longer true. And that sort of attitude of the British press over soccer in America has filtered down to the vast majority of the English public, such as yourself. Can’t blame you really.
I have myself been cynical of Americans understanding the sport in the past, but over the past three years of observing the way it’s evolved I have come to recognise its unmistakeable rise. And even ignorant ESPN hacks are struggling to dismiss the sport.
Regarding United’s strategy, I have no problem with them prioritising Asia, but I don’t want them to completely ignore the US either.
July 23rd, 2009 at 21:19
@Traverse: and the asia thing man, United is already all over the place in the states they probably have the most US fans of the premier league. then probably the other top 4. Barca is big here too but i think madrid is off everyone radar. and with the juggernaut that is the emerging middle class in asia teams are dumb not to be there as much as possible. kids in the us dont wear jerseys that much anymore, much less kits from european soccer teams. but in china and india especially i can see a ton of sales and new fans as well.
July 23rd, 2009 at 21:28
@Red Ranter: I understand what your saying, i do, but do you not agree that it is better for united to be 100% sure of the USA, like they are of asia, before they head over there?
Im sure the US is in their minds, if what you say is true, but right at this current time, based on recent history and the recession, it is far more safe to play with asia and sell a few shirts, then go into new territory.
Its an unnecessary risk going to america right now, when we know asia is right to the east of us.
July 23rd, 2009 at 21:30
If we had a fucking clue we would fuck off to the middle east, and hope some rich arab likes enough to buy us for a mindfuck amount of money!
July 23rd, 2009 at 21:42
@Red Ranter: I think they have the US they are easily the most famous in the states and like you say the major media getting on board will be beneficial our trophies as of late and actually ronaldo over the past few years has raised our profile here.
No one knows anything about fake madrid and i hope the galactic-hoes flop so it stays like that here.
i could see us riding on our success to sell United to the US market for now and if next year we end up like chelsa liverpool and madrid did this year(with sweet fek all) then we can come over to the states and do some pr work. I think barca are our competition in the states.
July 23rd, 2009 at 21:47
we even have a song about how famous we are so we endear ourselves with the self confident bravado that makes us Americans so arrogant.
were the famous Man United and were going to win the league.
its just like a southern rap song im rich, famous, and going to win everything, and you cant stop us. Americans love that shit.
July 23rd, 2009 at 21:50
@Dan: I am not saying United should not go to Asia. But from reports it seems like they’ve given up on the US, which troubles me.
And, the US is not a risk, trust me. Recession or no recession, if Chelsea and Milan can attract gates of 81k, then we will only be better.
July 23rd, 2009 at 21:52
@gator: Barcelona are especially more popular in the Hispanic dominated areas like Florida, for instance. They actually came close to funding Miami FC, didn’t they?
July 23rd, 2009 at 22:13
@Red Ranter: yea i was a fan of the mutiny way back when haha
im in north florida and the Hispanic pop is not as prevalent as in central and south fla but i see lots of messi barca and arg kits but i still see cr7 and number/nameless United shirts more and on more than just Hispanics. hopfully we wont loose that to the glactic-hoes. Hopfully ando will become the worlds darling this year and we will be good. haha i can dream right.
i see spl shirts here too rangers celtic mainly big scottish pop in north fla.
July 23rd, 2009 at 23:05
Summer+Rain=Fucked up holiday break for Eddy…
July 24th, 2009 at 2:35
@Red Ranter: @Red Ranter: Actracting 80,000+ people in a stadium… ok fine and well. But does that necessarily mean that this will reflect in tv ratings of Premier league and CL matches?
Will the average american be fascinated to the point of buying merchandising?
Will the sports appeal average caucasian american – not limited to the latino commuinty?
Again – no guarantee for me, it is still a niche. If the questions above are applied to an asian population the answer to all is a resounding yes.
As a matter of fact its good that other big european teams are actually testing the waters for us. If the response is positive on the long run – if for instance Chelsea gains more American fans as a result of a successful North American tour – which I doubt – then I’m sure we’ll have some sort of plan to tour The U.S soon.
July 24th, 2009 at 5:39
@Red Ranter: One more thing along with the Soccer on ESPN i would like to point out is the consumption economy that they have. I know that there Economy is in bit of bother but still they are consumption based and they are the largest which can only result in large chunk of revenue. Moreover, being an Indian i can really vouch on one thing that in India and Asia as whole the pirated market is very high. So, not necessarily the T Shirts which you see the Indian or Asians are wearing are oriniginal from NIKE stores. This piracy will also play big part. I mean just to give you an idea here in Mumbai (Bombay) if i want to buy the Original Branded Man UTD T Shirt from NIKE outlet it would cost me around Rs. 2000 – 2500. But, if I am buying the copy of it from some local shop which looks absolutely alike then it would cost me around Rs 200.
So, what i feel in this regard also I think it is worth cracking the US market while maintaning the leadership in ASIA which we already have. Because, at the Americans will always be able to outconsume the Asians due just the way there Economy has set up.
July 24th, 2009 at 5:43
@gator: T Shirt which you see An Indian and Chinese wearing may not necessarily be Original NIKE branded. So, even though it may large in numbers it may eventually not add to NIKE’s and effectively our revenue…
July 24th, 2009 at 7:54
@godzilla, I dont see why people seem so keen on aguero, he had a poor season last time out, and he’s a midget,he more suited to the gooners who play alot of passing football than united who play along the wings or play long passes from the back.He wouldnt cut it against many defenders in the epl.
July 24th, 2009 at 7:57
Where is Grog by the way??? Any clue why has he gone missing
July 24th, 2009 at 8:44
If you can’t watch second FC Seoul – vs Manchester United match on tv you can try live streams, they will be available 5 – 10 minutes before match starts.
July 24th, 2009 at 9:25
@radzio: What is the time telecast will start???
July 24th, 2009 at 9:26
@NicoQB: I agree “soccer” isn’t exactly popular in the States and and will never be due to their own interest in their own sports, which is understandable.
LA Galaxy’s last game had an attendance of 18,013, the capacity is 27,000, the average gate in the Championship is 17,881, with the draw of Beckham who is struggling with the MLS and you will never get a better name and brand than Becks.
July 24th, 2009 at 9:40
Glazers and united have a way around fans.We are not going to sign merceneries?Well am sorry but in the modern game everyone is a mercenery.look at the money they earn its criminal,and while we are at it didnt we just sign Owen?Left his love Liverpool for money,went to Newcastle and sucked the club dry,finally at Pools arch rivals now thats a mercenery.
On a more realistic point,we judge the glazers in a way i will not call mature.Whe United became a PLC,we expected a takeover any time and when it happened,we were surprised?We are not financial experts and even when it was still owned by the Magnier and his friend,the profits still went to the owners and not the fans.
Since the glazers came,they have backed the manager and we have had alot of success due to their good way of running the club;non intervention.We dont expect to buy superstars every window just because there is money th spend and fans want to see a new squad brought in,and when was the last time we bought a superstar?We make our own and iam seing Macheda and Gibson exceeding expectations this season.
There are no stars available now thats why their price is very high.Can you imagine Benzema at that price?
July 24th, 2009 at 9:52
SWP-ireland-Barry-Petrov
Adebayor-Robinho.
Wouldnt logic suggest that this would be citys front 6?
Or will it be robinho on the wing…
July 24th, 2009 at 10:01
@donibrasco: This precisely what i once put on the forum. The day we turned into a PLC with no one influential owner having say 60 or more per cent share we became vulnerable for take overs. I mean that is what happens in normal business as well.
Secondly, to all the people who feel that Glazers have buaght this club for nothing i would like to pose 1 question for own understanding…
That If I am not wrong the club at the time of takeover was valued at GBP 800 mn. And the amount of debt that was laden on the MUFC was GBP 660 mn. So, can I safely say that the difference amount has come from the pockets Glazers??? Or was there any other arrangement???
And if it has come from the Glazers pocket why people always say that they have invested none or they got club for nothing???
July 24th, 2009 at 10:03
@Dan: For me Robinho will go to wings and Ade will be partnered by Santa CRUZ.. More over that brings us to the question that what about the Nigel De Long. I mean he is a decent player.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:11
@Onkar:
I think they’ve put in £275m, not sure but this seems the difference.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:12
@Onkar: Santa cruz will probably start ahead of him, he was immense under hughes at blackburn.
He did score less then tevez last season, but thats in a lot less games.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:22
@Cyclops-Red: So then it confirms my point that people who grossly undermine them by saying they have put nothing, they will get club for nothing are totally wrong. I mean if i go by say GBP 250 mn and debts are around say GBP 600 mn then MUFC is currently having Debt to Equity Ratio of around 2.4 times. Which is perfectly fine. I mean we all know that there are so many businesses which has D/E of more than that. And they run perfectly well. And at the end of the we fan always forget that for Glazers it is nothing but the business. For us its our religion but for them its just a business and I think as of now they are doing it well enough. (Still i won’t mind any billionaire child hood Man UTD fan coming and taking it over…
….)
For people who are not sure of Debt repayment… It will start only in 2014 and will end in 2017 in four installment. And, i am damn sure by then Glazers will make some arrangement of refinancing probably by selling some part of the shareholding at very high valuation. Till then all we need to do is debt servicing that is interest payment without defaulting on it.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:23
@Onkar:
I don’t know but probably 1h before match starts
July 24th, 2009 at 10:25
@Dan: But did you notice one thing bro that what ever logic we are trying to fit in that ugly faced traitor TEVEZ can’t seem to find a place in the starting line…
By the way check this out… Cool statement from David Gill regd TEVEZ…
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/manchester_united/s/1127875_gill_takes_swipe_at_tevez
July 24th, 2009 at 10:26
@radzio: Yup bro… But unfortunately I am unaware of the match timing itself. My meaning what is GMT when match will start.. Sorry for confusing you with the word telecast…
July 24th, 2009 at 10:30
Here we go again..
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_5451104,00.html
Red Neville is injured again… I mean i think he should call it a time now because he is doing nothing but increasing the wage bill for the club…
July 24th, 2009 at 10:32
@Onkar: Have a little respect mate, ” increasing the wage bill for the club” This guy is a United legend.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:39
@Onkar:
The best business model is the one the losers at Eastlands have
July 24th, 2009 at 10:42
@Stephen: I know bro… I just got bit to money minded as was talking to much money and economics in my previous comments if you have seen. So, that was kinda hangover of those comment where i thought of just money and nothing else. I totally agree with even i a also respect him as much as you do so..
Hey RedNev if you are reading .. Then please accept my apologies for being Rude.
But, the point here is its kinda getting frustrating at injury level. I mean these people are absolute legends and they should retire like that. They should leave by them self before people are pushing them that’s all. Because, that will hurt me more than anything else. I mean believe me mate when some mediocre player passes RedNev in the wings and he tries to play catch it hurt me more than anything else to see him having trouble to handle some ordinary players. And that’s where the anguish come from….
July 24th, 2009 at 10:44
@Cyclops-Red: They are lucky enough… NO trophies… But lost of money… And all the mercenaries…. = Manchester Shitty
July 24th, 2009 at 10:52
@Onkar:
I do agree mate, I wish he would bow out gracefully also, but he still does hate scousers!!!
July 24th, 2009 at 11:04
@Stephen:
Absolutely agree mate… That why we all love him isn’t???
July 24th, 2009 at 11:09
@Onkar: We do mate, the celebration against the Dippers when Rio scored in 06 was superb mate a joy to watch!
July 24th, 2009 at 11:11
@Stephen: Yeah it was…
July 24th, 2009 at 11:14
What time does the game start?
July 24th, 2009 at 11:36
PIG
O’shea
Brown
Rio
Evra
Fletcher
carrick
anderson
Giggs
Rooney
Macheda.
Thats official. I want this to be our formation next season, with berba playing behind owen and rooney, like giggs is today. Fuck valencia, he can sit on the bench ala Nani!
July 24th, 2009 at 11:47
How Improtant is it to You that we Service Our Debt?
.If, hypothetically, the Glazers came out and said “We won’t be making any big money signings for the next 3 years in order to help us significantly reduce our debt” how would you feel about this?
Out of added interest, If I could guarantee you the following things, would you take it?
1. We would go through a 3 year period of transition where we don’t win the League or the Champions League, but we win the FA Cup.
2. Ticket Prices would fall each year
3. During this transition 2 Youth Players would emerge as World Class, but only in the 3rd season
4. Liverpool don’t win the League during this time frame but City do
5. By the 4th year the club is financially stable and almost completely free of debt.
6. No famous, established names sign for the club and our policy is almost identical to this summer in scope each season.
7. At the end of the Forth Season we win the League & European Cup
If I offered you that as a guarantee, would you take it?
I would…
July 24th, 2009 at 11:48
I’m hoping we line up like this, and not a 442 (with Fletch and Giggs wide):
————-PIG————
–O’shea-Rio—Brown–Evra–
—–Carrick—-Fletcher—-
———–Anderson———
————Giggsy———-
——Roon——-Macheda—-
If we do, here we go…Ando to score! There, I’ve cursed this match
Interesting that Fergie will have played Roon/Berb; Macheda/Owen; Macheda/Roon…persumably sunday will be Berba/Owen…
July 24th, 2009 at 11:50
@ Dan – we couldn’t servie the debt in that short a time. It’s just massive. Would take 10 odd years of pumping any profits into it
July 24th, 2009 at 11:51
@Dan: One change an bro…
Objection on point four… Liverpool as well as City don’t win any competition in this time frame.. Then i will happily grab it…
July 24th, 2009 at 11:57
@Beachryan: thats not the point mate, just imagine it was possible.
And btw, it wouldnt take 10 years.
July 24th, 2009 at 12:02
@Beachryan: Actually, debt servicing and repayment are two different thing even if they looks similar…
Debt servicing means paying the cost of borrowed funds aka.. Interest or finance charges… And debt repayment means repaying the principal amount as a whole or in part…
As far as I know United have opted to repay debts i.e. paying off principal in the later years of the tenure that is from 2014-2017 in 4 installments of GBP 75 mn, 150 mn, 150 mn, 150 mn (if i am right).
There will be some change in that as, the debt revaluation keep will keep on happening depending prevailing market conditions and interest rates ala LIBOR.
So, as far as debt servicing is concerned we can surely and easily do it from our operating profit but, for debt REPAYMENT Glazers will have to resort refinancing may be by way of selling some portion of there shareholding at a very high premium….
July 24th, 2009 at 12:03
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Bruce is in for cana!
Its ok brucey, after a season of him tearing the premier league down, we’ll take him off your hands
July 24th, 2009 at 12:04
aguero maybe had a below par season but whatever i have seen of him, he can get the goals we are looking for. higher priority will still go for a DM and a GK. I am amazed many people actually think VDS and Foster are good enough together for the coming season. we need a good strong GK today.
July 24th, 2009 at 12:11
@Beachryan: No problems with your formation mate… But the issue would be that we will be very narrow and lot pressure will have to be taken by our full backs as they are the once to provide the width that we are normally known for…
Then in that case i would like to have Brown over O Shea and Evra should get his best form back…. May i say it will be kinda formation where in we will use our FB as more like Wing Backs…
But, one things for sure mate that it will bring the best out of Rooney, Berba and Owen Trio… And for me its worth a try….
July 24th, 2009 at 12:12
@Beachryan: But still, I am not sure of Ando scoring a goal in open play….
..
July 24th, 2009 at 12:16
For anyone who’s looking for a link:
http://atdhe.net/8130/watch-seoul-fc-vs-manchester-united
July 24th, 2009 at 12:20
@m34ch: Thanks a lot bro…. Great help…
July 24th, 2009 at 12:21
@Onkar: No worries pal.
July 24th, 2009 at 12:36
where was ferdinand for that goal???
July 24th, 2009 at 12:38
Was a great cross though for their goal to be fair.
July 24th, 2009 at 12:43
Now that was an even better cross! Get in there!!!
July 24th, 2009 at 12:44
ROONEY!!!!!
You scouse basterd!!! 
Lovely header and a great cross from O’sheazy!! 
July 24th, 2009 at 12:45
The crowd love little Mickey btw!! he’s gettin as much cheers as Park!!
July 24th, 2009 at 12:46
Sheasy just bent it like Becks!
Great header there Wayne, awsome goal.
Wes has been fucking immense!!!
July 24th, 2009 at 12:48
Have to say, O’shea is an outstanding Sideback. He always gets forward, gets great balls in and is strong defensively. Just like Fletch, I feel all he needed was some consistent game time. He would prove useful again this season.
July 24th, 2009 at 12:51
I hope they cut to Park and he is caught picking boogers
July 24th, 2009 at 12:51
That was a mixture of rooneys head and shoulder
July 24th, 2009 at 12:54
Well done Wes, you have been awsome!
What a miss he has been last season…
Brown for DM?
July 24th, 2009 at 12:59
COME OON!!!!! WHY DID WE CONCEDE B4 HALF TIME
July 24th, 2009 at 13:00
Whatte….
OFFSIDE!!!
July 24th, 2009 at 13:00
GET OWEN ON!!!
July 24th, 2009 at 13:01
Evra as usual, napping at LB!!
Wonder if he was fantasising about Park there 
geez…
July 24th, 2009 at 13:01
@Anthony Los: Because the linesman is a scouser…
July 24th, 2009 at 13:01
What a shit half! Our entire midfield have played shit! I cant think of anything good our midfield has done in this game!
July 24th, 2009 at 13:02
Rooney scores with his shoulder/poorly ear! lol
Dejan again for Seoul! He’s having a good game for them. We look a wee bit off the pace today, bring on the second half! I’m just happy to be watching United again – those long summer weeks sans football really do drag. Come on the lads!
July 24th, 2009 at 13:04
Formation’s all over the place…. Who’s playing where?? I don’t know!!! Who’s the holding player?? Who are on the wings?? The only United players that can come out that half with any credit are Brown, Wayne and Sheazy.
July 24th, 2009 at 13:06
@Gabriel: There are no wingers in this formation! its 4-3-1-2!
July 24th, 2009 at 13:06
Bring Owen and Nani on!
July 24th, 2009 at 13:07
@Dan: More like 4-1/1/1/1-1-1
July 24th, 2009 at 13:08
@RedDevilEddy:
July 24th, 2009 at 13:11
@Dan: I know, but that midfield trio or quartet (including Giggs) are all over the place. IMO, Carrick should hang back, Ando the left sided centre mid and Fletch the right sided one, with giggs supporting Roon and Macheda. Evra and Sheazy should support as they have been doing. Right now, we have no shape, which is why the opposition are tearing thru our ranks.
July 24th, 2009 at 13:12
Everybody but Wazza, Brown, Rio and Sheasy have been playing quite bad… Carrick and Kiko have been invisible, Fletcher has had some horrible touches, Andy has made some realy stupid decisions(Why the fuck is he doing keepy-uppies right inside our half?!
), Giggs` positioning has actually been confusing, like what the fuck is he playing?!, and Evra again shows us why Fabio should be given more chances next season. PIG has made some good saves, but his communication must be shit! On both goals he hasnt helped his defence in picking players, but Im gonna be fair and say he has made some good saves.
July 24th, 2009 at 13:19
@Onkar: He is in hospital, after meeting Steven Gerrard in a local pub…
July 24th, 2009 at 13:24
What happens if it ends in a draw? Its a trophy up for grabs, so one team has to win… Extra time, penalties?
July 24th, 2009 at 13:26
Owen on for rooney please.
Aslo, nani for anderson, tosic for giggs, and 4-4-2 please.
July 24th, 2009 at 13:29
So anyway, a man who along with 6 of his friends, admitted delivering 3 uppercuts to a man his friend had already elbowed in the face was delivered a verdict of not guilty by the Liverpool fans…oh sorry jury that were on duty when there was video evidence of him doing it.
July 24th, 2009 at 13:31
Get in there!!!! Kiko!
July 24th, 2009 at 13:32
MACHEDA!!!
Get in son!!! 
Gonna be a top striker, that lad!! 
beatiful ball by Rooney, btw 
July 24th, 2009 at 13:33
KIKOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
July 24th, 2009 at 13:36
Those fans are crazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!
Park-love!
July 24th, 2009 at 13:39
BERBATOV!!!!
July 24th, 2009 at 13:39
Gibson>Ronaldo
July 24th, 2009 at 13:39
Bloody hellmans! Cracking header from Berba! Belting match.
July 24th, 2009 at 13:40
Great cross, great header, great goal!
July 24th, 2009 at 13:40
perfect header from Berby!!
hopefully, that’s the beginning of a lot more for United this season 
July 24th, 2009 at 13:41
@Dan: Gibson>Gerrard
July 24th, 2009 at 13:42
@Gabriel:
Who needs the Huuuunter?
We’ve got Macheeeeda
Who needs the Huuuunter?
We’ve got Macheeeeda!
July 24th, 2009 at 13:43
@Traverse: Macheda>huntelaar>torres
July 24th, 2009 at 13:44
Gibson had been immense on this tour!
His season maybe?
July 24th, 2009 at 13:47
Gibson at it again!
July 24th, 2009 at 13:47
i swear the lad is on viagra or something!
July 24th, 2009 at 13:48
Excpect many of the women in the stands to get pregnant if Park actually scores. Orgams-orgy?
July 24th, 2009 at 13:50
Berba had a bad touch
July 24th, 2009 at 13:50
@Dan: Gibson>>>>>>>Essien
Or maybe Essien was so desperate to leave Chelski and join United that he got an operation to look like Gibson and then killed Darren!
THAT IS ESSIEN!!!
July 24th, 2009 at 13:52
I bet the reason all those female fans are screaming is because they watched the video where Ronaldo became jealous of Parks dick…
July 24th, 2009 at 13:53
@RedDevilEddy:
July 24th, 2009 at 13:55
@RedDevilEddy:
July 24th, 2009 at 13:56
@Traverse:
July 24th, 2009 at 13:58
@Dan:
July 24th, 2009 at 14:01
@RedDevilEddy: @Gabriel: @Onkar: @Dan:
July 24th, 2009 at 14:03
@Stephen:
July 24th, 2009 at 14:04
@Stephen:
I thought i would change something at least… 
July 24th, 2009 at 14:06
@Onkar: COMBO BREAKER!!!
July 24th, 2009 at 14:06
Park did little ZZ there… Did you all see that????
July 24th, 2009 at 14:07
@Johnsom33: sorry bout the late reply, just saw your post. I was just quoting what was from the article.
July 24th, 2009 at 14:08
anyone notice we’ve been scoring a lot more from crosses this (pre)season? A sign of thing to come? New approach without ronaldo?
July 24th, 2009 at 14:08
@Onkar: Park>Ronaldo+Messi+Zidane
July 24th, 2009 at 14:09
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
Owen didnt score! hes fucking shit now!
July 24th, 2009 at 14:10
MOTM, Gibson.
July 24th, 2009 at 14:10
Owen didnt score in this game!!!
Expect the press to come out saying Owen was a waste of money.
(Yeah, I know he was free but the abu is stupid…
)
July 24th, 2009 at 14:12
@Dan: Sometimes the equal mindset of us two scares even the most knowledgable…
July 24th, 2009 at 14:14
Great pre-season game, the first I’ve seen all the way through this year so cool beans
Can’t wait for the Prem to start now!!
Nice to see Park get some fanatical love out there too!
July 24th, 2009 at 14:15
@Dan: HAHAHAHAHA i was saying the exact same thing
July 24th, 2009 at 14:16
@RedDevilEddy: We could be black and white twins
July 24th, 2009 at 14:19
@Dan:
Maybe we are?!
July 24th, 2009 at 14:25
@Onkar: Gary Neville is a great servant to the club, but your right. At this point he is a waste of wages. He has zero left in the tank, and he is taking opportunity’s away from younger players. Giggs and scholes might be able to stagger thru 1 more season but Neville is truly finished. Do us all a favor and call it a career, he should have one hell of a testimonial tho!
July 24th, 2009 at 14:36
Macheda>Benzema
July 24th, 2009 at 15:40
@Cyclops-Red: Macheda>Ronaldo
July 24th, 2009 at 15:43
Anyone else tired of anderson? When he is on form, hes the best young prospect in the world imho, but when hes not, hes only as good Djemba-Djemba tbh.
July 24th, 2009 at 17:25
@Dan: +1
July 24th, 2009 at 17:45
Alot of people were mad at SAF for not goIng all out on Ramsey, but I’m not one of them. I’m glad his priority was in securing macheda and petrucci. So far Ramsey looks to be a fantastic English prospect, but Macheda looks to be a great World prospect. I admit I sometimes question saf but I’m with him 100% on his valuation of Ramsey. He made the right decision. It’s Ramsey who fucked up in choosing arsenal. There he will get games but he won’t win anything. At united youngsters get a chance to play, but they also get the chance to win silverware. I just hope all the youngster saw the way united thrashed arsenal in the Semi’s and saw the true gulf in class betwen the 2 clubs.
July 24th, 2009 at 17:53
@Johnsom33: Hes not getting games at Le’Arse though.
Plus Ra’vel Morrison>ramsey
July 24th, 2009 at 17:55
@Johnsom33:
I’m really encouraged by Macheda. He just looks really comfortable in a United shirt. I hope I’m not tempting fate but I think he can really make it.
July 24th, 2009 at 17:58
I reckon SAF will turn welbeck into an english ronaldo, if he can improve his crossing, hes not far away now is he!
July 24th, 2009 at 19:01
@Dan: In so many ways danny reminds me of thierry henry, only difference is i think like you said danny will be turned from a striker to a winger, and thierry was the other way round. Only thing is he would have a lot of competition on the wings, maybe even more than he would in the strikers position. Obertan, valencia, park, nani, tosic, all play on the wing but yes if he has the talent to play there which i think he does he will outshine them and prove he is better than them. I would definitely love to see a united team in a few years where the main core of the team have come from the youth team, or been bought as a 16 y/o.
Players like foster, rafael, fabio, evans, petrucci, welbeck, macheda definitely have potential and it would be excellent to see us in a few years with a strong squad of players who have come through our reserves and most importantly love and would bleed united red, this is just a dream right now but thats why ive felt for a few years its time to give the youngsters a chance and see what they can do, who knows we may save a pack we would have spent on established stars.
July 24th, 2009 at 19:27
@Dan: +1.
July 24th, 2009 at 19:33
Im really starting to like that Gibson lad… Promising, but also a good footballer already. He can cross and pass, and boy can he shoot!
And with Fergie showing that much faith in him, I think he has a really big future. He has scored 3 goals already, and may I say they were all crackers. Thats looking away from his reserve league blasters and pre-season games against the likes of Peterbrough and Soton in the past.
Foster
Rafael Evans De Laet Fabio
Gibson Anderson Petrucci
Welbeck Macheda Rooney
???
July 24th, 2009 at 19:43
@Matt: In my opinion, just like if it came down to ronaldo and rooney, if it came down to Macheda or Welbeck, im picking welbeck everytime. Macheda is a talent, no doubt, but danny is more talented, and i wont be like others who judge by the name and goals.
Our youth is excellent at the moment, and i strongly doubt that we will be signing £30-40mil players anytime soon(unless we need a quick replacemnet)
July 24th, 2009 at 19:53
@RedDevilEddy: that team would get 5th.
Put diouf in, it would win the league. 4 goals per game, FUCK!
July 24th, 2009 at 19:53
@RedDevilEddy: You forgot the C-C-C-C-C-C’s
Great commments there. Good match put the regular commentors in great spirits. I hope we’ll have a few more of such games in the tour, shame that there as only one match in South Korea though.
@Matt: Of all these players, I thnik Obertan might just be the most promising as he’s very very gifted and is actually a natural marauding winger. Has attitude problems though it seems.
July 24th, 2009 at 19:55
@Dan: He should at least score 150 goals next season.
July 24th, 2009 at 20:04
Enjoy the pre-season guys but do not read too much into it! Loads of youngsters do well in the pre-season….it means very little as the standard of opposition is lower than the average side you meet in the Carling Cup.
July 24th, 2009 at 20:10
Must say, I haven’t got the chance to see much of the pre-season friendlies bar some highlight reels, but I have been impressed with Gibson of late. He appears to be the energetic midfielder we need who can chip in with about 10 goals a season — he may not be the best passer in the world, but Frank Lampard isn’t either and, like him or not, everyone knows how important he is for Chelsea.
July 24th, 2009 at 20:24
@Red Ranter: Great point on Gibbo, the lad looks like he’s got some temperament and composure too which hopefully will see him come good at United. Tis nice to see the younglings come through.
July 24th, 2009 at 20:40
@colver: Normally i would agree, but i think its fair to say FC soul of korea are better then Derby county or QPR!
July 24th, 2009 at 20:42
@Red Ranter: I think hes a great passer. Hes the one that threaded the ball through for Owens first goal remember, im not saying 1 good pass makes you a decent passer, but he isnt a bad passer of the ball at all.
July 24th, 2009 at 21:58
@Dan: Just wondering about this Ra’vel Morrison kid you talk about sometimes. Ive heard some good things bout him but i was hopeing you could give me the low down on him please?
July 24th, 2009 at 22:10
Gibson is sure doing everything right to silence his critics, me included!
One thing I’d like him to do more often though, is to take his time on the ball, and allow his team mates to position themselves and be some sort of midfield maestro. I also have the same gripe about a few of our other CMs, Carrick and Fletch notably, but I guess I’ve been spoilt by Keane and Scholes.
Still, good for the boy.
July 24th, 2009 at 22:17
@DRed: Youtube speaks louder than words.
July 24th, 2009 at 22:23
@DRed: I last remember reading that he was in jail. Yep in jail. Google it.
July 24th, 2009 at 22:26
@NicoQB: Cheers buddy, nice one
The kid does look a talent i have to say.
July 24th, 2009 at 22:31
@mike: Dear jesus wats the kid playing at. Seems to have all the talent in the world and then goes and tries his best to fuk it up
July 24th, 2009 at 22:54
Watched all of todays match and most of the previous 2. Heres my 2cents.
As a few have said i was very impressed with gibbo even if he was mainly playing out of position on the wing – but as the gaffer has said and done before he plays young players in multiple positions to educate them in the team dynamic and to show their strengths/weaknesses. Gibbo is also a big strong player suitable for that CM role take no prisoners type ala Keano – and for the rep.ire the Trap has been playing him regularly even without a regular 1st team spot at utd
Anderson seems to have gone off the boil alot – since about halfway thru last season. his passing and decision making is terrible, but we should remember he is still very young.
What are we to do about Nani? No doubt talented and skilled but again io feel like he has a point to prove, often trying one stepover too far when the simple pass would do.
Tosic looked promising comfortable on the ball good range of passing and some great crossing – wnat to see more – big competition for the wide berth with valencia/tosic/wellbeck/nani/park etc dont forget anderson played alot as a winger previously too.
Defence need to tighten up – i know its early but theres been far too many goals against so far. Glad to see Wes back – he looked forminable today very quick strong good decision making.
Owen looks sharp – very sharp. Early days yet of course but his positioning and range of passing has been great so far.
Cant wait to see more of the new boys against better oppo in the forthcoming munich cup.
Soz for long post – gotta lot to say lol
July 25th, 2009 at 1:59
Cana signs for Sunderland.
Good. If he turns out good, we’ll be able to afford him.
July 25th, 2009 at 9:50
Glad Cana signed for Brucey, means we can buy him if he turns out great. I felt we should have bought him right away, cause there is nothing I love more than hard-tackling moinsters in the middle of the pitch.
Well, when they are fair that is. 
Gives me great hope den, hihi 
July 25th, 2009 at 12:09
guyz in this blog seem as undecided and bipolar as that rapper “the game”.
Last week i was reading comments on how gibbo was shi*te,couldn’t compete and wasn’t man united material, now he’s the next essien, he has a bright future bla,bla bla.Could you people just make up your mind and rant consistently. Anyone who din’t know gibo would think united has two of the.
July 25th, 2009 at 12:35
@spizzy: First, speak english.
Second, when we were comparing him to essien, it was a joke.
Third, who the hell are you to tell us what to do? Go back to you hole if you have nothing constructive to say, please.
July 25th, 2009 at 13:14
@Dan, stop being such a woman,i din’t address it to you.
Two if i wasn’t speaking english how the hell did you understand what i was saying.
Three since you are the master of constructiveness write your own blog so we CANNOT add to it.
July 25th, 2009 at 13:37
@spizzy: Or, i could stay on this blog, and you can crawl back to your hole mmmk spazzy. Good.
July 25th, 2009 at 13:40
@Dan: Atleast his second message was legible, if nothing else…..
July 25th, 2009 at 15:53
From what i’ve seen of gibson last year there was nothing special. He has got a great shot but he did fuck all tackling for a midfielder (no one else did come to think of it) and his passing was average. Hav’nt seen any of the pre-season friendlies though so maybe he has improved. Although in saying that I would really like to see him improve because he is more of a keane mould midfielder which we definitely need.
July 25th, 2009 at 16:02
Last season Gibson was incredibly average. But with young players sometimes all it takes is a good pre-season followed by some first team chances to break into the first team. Midfield is the weakest area of our team and if Hargreaves continues to struggle with injuries and Anderson continues to disappoint then Gibson could well get the chance to impress next season.
Macheda probably will get more action than Welbeck because while a lot of his game is undeveloped he does have the physical strength and the eye for goal that means he can make an impact while he plays. Welbeck undoubtedly has a lot more potential but the times I saw him played he looked a bit gawky, lacking in composure especially on the ball and goal shy. He needs a season on loan to iron those things out.
Personally Im excited about Obertan. I think he could be a real hit. He broke into the first team very young at Bordeaux and while he regressed last season, I think we are the club to help him get back on track and progress. He has the ability it is just about finding that consistency and we can help him with that. It is a shame he couldn’t join us on the pre-season.
July 25th, 2009 at 16:15
@spizzy: @DutchMatrix: Yep, there is such a concept, mysterious and unfathomable as it may sound to spizzy, known as improvement.
I echo the thoughts of Dutchmatrix as to his tackling and other contribution as a midfielder other than the odd goal last season.
July 25th, 2009 at 16:17
@colver: Ditto here mate, for all you said.
July 25th, 2009 at 16:41
@spizzy: You are confusing the blog for individuals. A blog will have people expressing different opinions. Your point would really make sense if specific individuals said negative things about him only to suddenly go back on it in a knee-jerk way.
July 25th, 2009 at 18:33
@Ishaq
In the NFL, every team is sure of making a profit due to this revenue sharing deal they have in place. Also, the NFL is the most lucrative sporting league in the world, so why would the Glazers get rid of their piggy bank?
July 25th, 2009 at 19:18
I’m terrified about Europe next season. Much of our success in recent years has come from abandoning 4-4-2 and going with a cautious approach based on defence first and using the pace of our forward line to hit teams on the break. Ronaldo was a HUGE part of that. It was also a major reason why Berbatov got so little game time in Europe….he just didn’t fit into our European tactics which relied on playing a lone striker with pace up front.
I can see Fergie going with a 4-4-1-1 with Berbatov in the hole behind Rooney. But that would lead to our central midfield getting exposed by the best teams.
There is also the option of playing Rooney as a lone striker and going with a 4-5-1/4-3-3. Rooney is more effective in that position than out wide-but you are still not getting the best out of him. I suppose you’d flank him with Valencia and Park/Nani. But really you are not going to get much goals from that formation because Rooney is the only goal threat whereas before teams had to keep Rooney and Ronaldo quiet.
That is why I think we need a powerhouse midfielder. Because our current team is so much better suited to a 4-4-2
July 25th, 2009 at 19:56
@colver: I personally think too much credit is being given to our abondoning the 4-4-2 and playing for the counter for our success in Europe.
We are as strong, or arguably less strong than other great United teams in attack, but our defence is definitely better. But another factor that should be taken into account is the decline of Italian and German teams (and other nearly Spanish teams such as Valencia) while English teams have progressed.
At the end of the day, if a team is strong enough it’ll achieve in europe.
But we defintely need the powerhouse midfielder, unless Fletch brings his A-game against the best teams, which he usually does.
July 25th, 2009 at 20:51
@colver: In the 4-4-1-1 you descrieb, it’d be easy for Rooney to drop off and help midfield when needed. He’ll probably do that anyway. My biggest problem with Europe is Fergie being scared of everyone else’s plans and systems, and not just playing our way and making the opposition adapt.
July 25th, 2009 at 22:43
:rolls:
July 25th, 2009 at 23:09
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1202142/Manchester-City-1-United-0-Fergie-rattled-Tevez-jibe-brands-City-stupid-arrogant.html#ixzz0MIiG2HSx
Fergies stinging attack on city, and a dirty argentine. I especially liked thte last line,
Go fergie
July 25th, 2009 at 23:27
@Dan:
Now thats laying it down to those bitter,deluded,bluenosed bastards.
I can’t believe the bile still coming out of that filthy mouth of Tevez.
I think he is already realising he has made a big mistake.
July 25th, 2009 at 23:27
@Dan: Dat man iz a GENIOUS!!!
Go Fergie! 
July 25th, 2009 at 23:52
@Dan: Loved the last few paragraphs. Nani will be better, Berbatov…
Let’s hope he gives them enough playing time to prove im right!
July 25th, 2009 at 23:55
Chelsea looking good. Beating the two Milans in just about a week.
Once again our main title rivals me thinks.
July 26th, 2009 at 0:19
Fergie’s going ballistic
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/fighting-talk-from-fergie-in-red-corner-1761442.html
July 26th, 2009 at 0:38
@NicoQB: Yeah certainly looks that way, the thing i saw looking at the highlights and reading in the papers is it looks like they are changing their formation slightly.
Looks like lampard is being deployed behind drogba and anelka with essien and an other in the midfield 2, looks like the formation they will be using from now on to me.
Another thing that impressed me was the drogba goals he scored in the 2 games. Both of the goals were absolute thunderbolts, they were just excellent shots that were unstoppable and went straight into the top corner. Just seeing those goals got me thinking, who in our team would be prepared to shoot from that range.
Just seems to me that over the last 2 seasons we have been similar to arsenal, almost trying to pass the ball into the net at times and sometimes in a tight game watching chelsea someone will just have a shot from range and it will go in and be the difference between 1 and 3 points. Think essien 1-1 06/07 season against arsenal just to mention one.
Ronaldo used to always try his luck from distance, and whilst many times they will go into the stands think, arsenal free kick goal from 40 yards out, think porto, just looking at our team now i just dont see anyone else in our team having a go like ronnie used to and like how people like drogba are doing now.
Rooney would try his luck in the past but he doesnt seem to take them as much, maybe this season he will be let off the leash and will take a few shots from distance.
This isnt a major criticm of the team btw, indeed most of the time the shots will just go miles over but sometimes in a tight game you just need someone to have a shot from distance and from our team right now apart from maybe rooney i dont see berba, carrick, fletch, valencia etc taking these long shots and maybe just maybe the way how at times we want to walk the ball into the net may cost us.
July 26th, 2009 at 0:55
Another part of the interview Fergie once again promises to play Rooney through the middle. He says this every season and I hope he is finally going to keep his word.
We have enough wingers and while none of them are really United quality yet (we’ve been spoilt with the likes of Giggs, Ronaldo etc) the only way they are going to have a chance to get to that standard is if they get lots and lots of games.
July 26th, 2009 at 1:40
Cheers gang. Just thought I’d check in with a few comments. I’ve been quiet of late because I’ve been involved in my big move. It’s been a killer. Too much stuff and too much crap to throw away. The penalty one pays for being a collector and pack rat. The last week has been absolute killer and hasn’t given me any time to sit back and check out Red Rants and see how the boys are doing.
Not much happening really. Again I can’t say I was impressed with the team’s result vs the Koreans. But I know it isn’t a true measure of the squad. Good to see Kiko doing well and I am very encouraged by young Gibson. Could be the making of a new Beckham. Remember Becks wasn’t a right sided midfielder when he started either and if Gibby can deliver crosses and balls into the box like he has been doing, he could become a real revelation. To bad that overrated pile of slop Valencia will keep him on the bench. Valencia is not a bad little player but for me, he’s just not United class.
Good to see Macheda playing well but I still feel that Welbeck is the more talented of the two. Yes I could be wrong but I am with Dan on this one. I also think that once Macheda turns 20 or 21 he will be dying to return to Italy where Welbeck is United thru and thru. Only time will tell.
Finally, thank god for EVDS. Without him we would be up Shit Creek without a paddle. Foster and Pig are just awful and have given the term “clown shoes” a new meaning.
So that’s all from me until next Thursday or Friday. Once I am in the new place and settled in I shall return with my cloud of darkness and gloom of doom to entertain, frustrate, irritate and confuse and occasionally cause the odd chuckle. Until then cheers mates and remember……UNITED FOR LIFE!
July 26th, 2009 at 2:05
@Matt: Us trying to pass the ball into the net? Nah, we’ve been over reliant on counter attack.
I’ve been crying out for the return of possession football.
As for scoring from distance, Carrick, Gibson and Nani are some players actually having the skill to score from range, but I think the priority the coming season will be to find a footballing system fitting the players we are going to use, namely Rooney in the center, and accomodating more traditional wingers.
But I do agree about us lacking the threat that Ronaldo posed as he could score from the least amount of space afforded to him.