Feb 04
Glazers, Gill, Some Red Knights and Lots of Lies
One more phrase I wanted to add to the title [but thought it would make it too long and unwieldy] was ‘some perspective’. The Times reports that Manchester United’s bonds are among the worst performing in a ‘benign’ market.
But more distressing was David Gill’s comments, earlier this week, calling United fans’ protests ‘ridiculous’.
Here’s a sample:
“I would appeal to the fans to be sensible and get behind the team,” he said. “We are a very well-run club and given what’s happening at other clubs, people should be proud of what’s happening at Manchester United. It [a protest] serves no purpose and it won’t change a thing. [Milan] will be a tough game and we can’t afford for the fans not to be there. Let’s not have ridiculous protests of that nature.”
Now for a person who gets paid over a million pounds a year it’s only expected that he would toe the party line. However, to show utter disdain, treating a decision taken by the supporters (with much deliberation) like it never really mattered, shows a complete lack of understanding of ground realities. What makes this shocking is he was opposed to the takeover in 2005.
Gill hasn’t been alone in this. Ferguson expressed similar sentiments a week back.
This, however, brings up a wider concern for United fans (and football fans in general): how does one really succeed in overthrowing a regime bent upon sucking the life blood out of the club, first and foremost, and then worry about on-field success almost as an afterthought? The official line trotted out will obviously point to a period of sustained success since the Glazer takeover. But supporters were opposed to the takeover when it happened back then and now — success or not. Where other fans embraced foreign ownership from day one (refer: Liverpool), United fans — the vast majority — have vehemently opposed the takeover. Once the hostile takeover happened, it gave most of us little choice but to give them the benefit of the doubt — the alternative being to sit grumbling along as United swept all that was before us on the pitch. And for a while the murmurs died down to a whimper.
Success can do that.
Things have changed now, and I wouldn’t want to go into how this happened, because that part has been done to death over the course of this season. The protests — the green and gold campaign — have grown out organically and caught every United fan’s fancy: this is, by the way, a wonderful thing that must be celebrated. The protest planned ahead of the Milan game is obviously a stand against the Glazers, not the team. Even a half-wit, who chances upon back pages of broadsheets in England, would get that much. How hard is it for someone supposedly astute as David Gill to grasp this?
But setting aside David Gill’s comments, where do these protests leave us now? Nowhere really. We as fans can voice our displeasure, scream at the top of our voices, unfurl LUHG banners, at the risk of getting frisked away by stewards, but the status quo will remain for a while at least. Fans under single ownership like the Glazer regime have little leverage until they decide to vote with their feet. But that would go against the grain of being a supporter. The principle is to support the team regardless of the goings on in the board room. Everyone giving up season tickets [hypothetically assuming it would create the first series of semi-populated Old Trafford matches in the league next season] would be counter-productive to the team we so love.
Voting with our feet is a cliched and idealistic solution simply because football is an addiction. The owners know fully well that fans put up with a lot of shit to support their club. No one in their right minds would put up with so much exploitation in any other sphere of life. It’s what make this a unique situation. Indeed, every fan has a tipping point, when he realizes he’s had enough of this. I know a lot of United fans who have already given up their season tickets after being OT regulars for over 20 years. But would a league title at the end of this season, wash over this new-found enthusiasm among fans to protest against the ownership? We’ll need to wait till May for that.
But what of a supporter-backed buyout of the club? This is once again tricky because, regardless of the money supporters raise to buy out the club, [which, by the way, is a tall ask considering its value] how much more does one have to put into the running of the club? How well can one trust the new representatives [presumably elected by supporters] to efficiently run the club? Ok, don’t answer that: supporters love the club, surely they’ll run it well, no? Well, then refer to Barcelona, Real Madrid, Valencia — all victims of fiscal mismanagement throughout their history; all supporter-run. I don’t mean to pour cold water over this endeavour, mind. My personal opinion: supporter-run football clubs would work if the club is not in debt after a buyout. And I honestly hope this solution somehow works out for us [magically, I would presume].
Finally we come to the idea of the ‘Red Knights’ mooted lately, which is really a mysterious consortium of ‘United fans’ who want to buy out our club from the Glazers. One of them is the owner of Bet Fred, a betting company, and he is supposedly a United fan.
Now I won’t have a problem with this kind of a takeover if I am convinced they will run United as well a business as (or better than) the Glazers, without sucking the amount of money the Glazers did. But these people are investors at the end of the day. I am not prepared to believe they won’t look for a sizeable return on investment.
In our efforts to drive the Glazers away we should be really careful to whom we handover the ownership. Which is why a proper understanding of the plans of future investors need to be calmly heard out. New owners — who are not the Glazers — don’t automatically translate into brilliant owners; refer Portsmouth. Which is why I would ask all supporter associations [if you are all reading this] to investigate the background of any other potential investors to ensure they have the best interests of the club at heart to the extent that:
1. yes, they might have a profit motive, but they won’t saddle the club with unmanageably large debts;
2. they would reinvest a bulk of the profits (if not all) back into the squad.
But despite all this, it’s ridiculously hard to judge intent of ownership. And it’s even more difficult to dislodge an existing ownership.
Supporters of most Premier League clubs these days, sadly, are stuck between a ditch and a dirty puddle where owners continue to spray muck on their faces [in the form of annually increased ticket prices] without a semblance of accountability. And despite media and public sentiment more sympathetic to these paying supporters, there’s very little one can ultimately do in the face of privately owned establishments other than hope they get sold to someone more understanding. Small mercies…
Some good reads:
United Rant: 10 Point Plan to Oust Glazers and Lies, Damn Lies, and David Gill
Related items from Red Rants:
- David Gill gets top role
- David Gill’s “Out of Context” Cop-Out
- United plan an Evil Empire of Online Domination
- Manchester United Travel To Wigan Amidst Latest Takeover Rumors
- Glazers: Manchester United is not for sale
Tags: Manchester United News
Opti (541)
RedDevilEddy (459)
Stephen (454)
Craig Mc (344)
Moscow is my heaven (272)
@Scotjimland: Remember that there are a lot of readers on here that do not speak English as their first language. When native speakers have trouble getting some sense out of what you write, imagine the struggle we’re going through to make sense of it.
I tried to read your first post because I like to know everyones opinion, but seriusly I gave up halfway trough because I could not make any sense of it.
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@Scotjimland: Maybe, but the wind is heading Glazers way
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@Redrich: I am furious with them. Richard Caborn (Minister for Sport), Richard Scudamore (Premier League Chief Executive) and Brian Barwick (FA Chief Executive) all have questions to answer. They sat down and met with the Glazer curse before the take over and chowed down on their remeasuring smiles, and nodded furiously to whatever they were told.
At no point did anyone seem to ask where the money was coming from! If they had asked then they would have either found out they are borrowing £700million and then moving it to the clubs books and it should have been blocked. How these people managed to pass the fit and proper persons test is beyond me.
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@Scotjimland: Hmm that’s funny, another poster just said they have trouble reading your posts. Maybe the problem isn’t with me…
I find it funny that when your responding to me about this, you actually take your time and write complete words, sentences and thoughts. Read your last two posts directed at me, then scroll up and read the others you posted… Notice the difference?
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Capello has fired John Terry. Whose next for captain… Rio? Rooney?
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Fabio Capello’s statement says that when he picked Terry as Captain he picked a vice captain and a 3rd choice. There are no reasons to change. To me that would make Rio Ferdinand England Captain, and Steven Gerrard Vice Captain.
That would also mean we have appointed our first black permanent captain. Good job England!
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Just what I thought, just what he deserved
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It’s perfect news for me, as an England supporter who would hate the image of Mr Chelsea lifting the World Cup in June.
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@Traverse: I think for Englands part, it’s much better to have Ro as the England captain. Unlike Terry, he actually has experience lifting a World Cup.
And for a United player to do it in June as well, magnificent! 
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@Scotjimland: Well you are going to have to get used to it mate. I will say whatever comes to my mind and if it’s negative, well so be it. As you know this blog is for everyone and it’s not a positive points only blog like some out there. I speak the truth and I speak honestly. I am not always right but I do feel I am sincere with with my feelings and thoughts. Whether I am positive enough for you is not really a concern for me. No disrespect to you mate, but I am here to voice my feelings on United. When United offer me nothing but positives to talk about, believe me, I will be nothing but. But right now there are negatives as well as positives. Our team is playing better on the pitch but financially, the club is going through a very bad time. To not talk about the Glazer’s influence and black mark on this team would be doing a disservice to all who care about the team. I am not the kind who believes in the see nothing, hear nothing, say nothing mantra that many who follow the team support. So either get used to my comments mate, or just ignore them. It’s up to you as to which way you go.
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@Scotjimland: See , you just don’t get it mate. Several people on this blog have already complained to you about your writing style and you still ignore their wishes and concerns. This blog is not like a lot of those “other” blogs which allow the lowest form of life on them to create havoc and chaos. This blog is not just for passionate United fans, it’s for intelligent ones too. We here discuss the issues and joke a round but we do so by respecting each other in the process and we do so with the best English we can muster. Some come from countries where English is not the first language and frankly, they are far easier to understand than you.
Mate (not M8, which personally gets on my nerves) I’m sure you are capable of of writing proper English. You are a Scot and although I find some Scots like Fergie a little hard to understand at times, they are certainly all capable of reading and writing the Queen’s English, I’m sure. Why not try to accommodate the masses here who wouldn’t mind reading your posts and getting to know you better without making it a real chore to go through your post and without you replying back with a backhanded defiant comment and attitude. I know for a fact that Red Ranter has also warned you and voiced his concern over your lack of writing etiquette on this blog. So frankly, that warning alone tells me mate that you should think twice about whether you are going to do things your way or conform to the proper standard on this blog.
You talk about offering a positive nature, humor and a cutting edge. Well honestly, I have seen very little of it because your comments are not legible nor coherent. Secondly, adding code, slang and Gaelic to the proceedings isn’t helping your cause. I would prescribe to KISS. “Keep it simple Scotty). Try to write proper English and then maybe more of us will agree with your humor and cutting edge thinking. Right now I cannot say I agree with you or disagree with the way you are thinking because I cannot understand your writing. So either conform to the masses on this blog mate, or “Tough Tits” on you. Seriously, all of see enough wise cracking smart asses in our everyday lives. We do not need them showing up with their dude comments and slang on here. You are a devoted fan of United? Then learn to talk to other fans with respect and proper communicative etiquette as this is not the XBOX Live live chat room or gaming forum.
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@Johnsom33: Personally mate, his problem is the problem with many young people on the Internet today. They have created this lazy slang lingo to communicate yet they do not realize the the majority of the world does not communicate like that. I mean how lazy is a person who cannot find the split second to write the word “mate” but has to abbreviate it with “m8″? This kind of gibberish has always been a pet peeve with me as is being called “dude” by some of the younger people out there. I am older and perhaps a bit square, but I do not believe that communicating properly should be compromised because of certain people’s lack of proper English skills or their plain modern day pop culture induced laziness which has butchered our native tongue. Just drives me crazy. I also hate guys who come on here and text of an iPhone or cell phone because they offer little other than abbreviations and frustration to those of us who communicate properly. Look at how much I write and the fact I can type a long paragraph in no time at all. I am not a trained typist but I still remember the rules of English as they were taught to me and I take pride in proper grammar and spelling for the most part.
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@Traverse: It looks like Rio is the man. I’m happy for Rio but then again, I think Rooney for me was the right choice. He is the present and the future for England as well as his club and he has a way of leading by example. Rio for me has declined a lot in the past year and his injuries make his place uncertain come World Cup time. I personally think a more solid pick due to availability and dependability was Rooney, Gerrard or Lampard. Hell, if he was to start more, I’d be more than happy to give the armband back to Beckham who wore it with pride and carried himself with dignity.
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@Grognard:
I hope you feel better for getting all that out of your system.Oddly I read it fully, digest it, but wont take it on board.I am my own Man, I have my own style wether you like it or not.
M8 he may not even travel, and probably will play if he does at best a cameo role.
The Boss of this Blog, rapped my knuckles the other nite for Language problem’s.I accepted that, with grace.You however have to tell me some 6 hours later to” fuck off” in your mature debate form.Makes sense eh!.
Grog in the short time I have enjoyed this Blog I have witnessed you head bashing a few lads,Traverse,Craig Obertan etc etc.If you call that mature and reasonable debate then fuck me pink, I must not be in the real world.
M8 when you discuss football you are much more worthwhile reading rather than acting like a School teacher, playground bully.I sorta imagine you as a young child having your pencil case stolen and never quite got over it.
On too your point regards David Beckham as England captain.
Bye the way I dont own a X box.
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@NorwegianDevil: M8 if you care to join the blog you might gleen more.Snipers from afar is not the way for me.Have the courage to explain what you do not or did not understand.I will enlarge happily.IN English French Gaelic.Jokin The boss( As in RR )has told me and everyone else to communicate in English. On this blog I will toe the English only line.
Tell me please what do you think of our chances against Pompey? I see Kanu is back at Fratton park, that’s a serious threat
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@Traverse: I hope so. M8 i tried your link when you posted it, I wanted to join in, its a Blank page with A anti Glazer banner point 38.Hope you dont find that difficult to understand.
The problem I think on here, RR puts up some great links, some lad’s just dont take the time or effort to read them, but are happy too fire off there views. End off Rant. away to Boozer to get Jaked, opps Pissed
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@Scotjimland: Frankly what was wrong with your first post was that there was no red line through your post. Word for word I understood everything (Even the slang), but because it lacked any form of coherence it was very hard to understand without making a considerable effort.
I’m also sure that if my language skills were worse than they are I would not have been able to make any sense out of your post even if I tried.
The reason I pointed it out was not as much for my own benefit but for followers of this blog that are not as fluent in their second or third language as I am.
If you keep writing as you are now I have no problems with you what so ever.
Over to lighter topics.
if we do not (as SAF so eloquntly put it) batter them I will be seriously pissed of. If you compare our current form agaist that of Pompey then it should be a no brainer. 4-1 “m8″.
The only way I can see them treathening us is if they play Kanu
Oh and btw “m8″. I’ve been following this blog almost from the beginning so I cared to join this blog a long time ago.
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@Grognard: Using a phone is no excuse. 90% of my post come from my iPhone. Now I don’t have perfect grammar or puncuation, but my post are readable.
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@Johnsom33: Not that i care to correct you, yer a Eedjit.( Idiot) The word you try to say I think, is Punctuation.
Leave it m8 u made your point, you wanna be a cheer leader type character.
Re read, The moderators links. Then read mine. Kosher mean’s ok. Buggers muddle, dreadfull mess.
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@NorwgianDevil: red line? What do you mean. I cross it all the time. And RR lets me do it, SO FAR. What I was trying to convey its just total confusion. I am not stupid. I read all links to various sites, blah blah.
M8 some lads Alledged financial experts say all is good at the club, some say it’s gonna go pear. M8 I am just a simple Scots lad.I dont like to read financial crap, but I do. That was the Samaratain joke. Just breaks my heart, reading that shite. Everybody needs a glimmer of hope. That’s why I hold the Players in huge esteem, during this very shit awfull time.
AYE laddie we gotta Baterrrrrr them( Pompey) and hope Arsenal Baterrrrrr, the Chelschavs
Nothing will change my view, never, we can do this lads.19 league titles, 12 in my life time. As u typed No brainer!
Come on you reds
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@Scotjimland: First off, I never told you to fuck off. If you are too immature to take some constructive criticism, then that is not my concern. As for rapping people’s knuckles, Craig and I have been friends on this blog for over three years. We had a disagreement and that was that. Who are you to come on here and make it out to be something it isn’t. Mind your own business mate. Red Ranter has warned you and rapped your knuckles, I have complained to you, Red Rich has, Johnson has and others yet you want to beat to your own drummer.
Talk about being thick. Go ahead “m8″. Let it fly and lets just see how long it will be before RR reaches his boiling point and deletes you for good. Personally speaking, no skin off my teeth because frankly, I am still trying to figure out if you actually offer anything substantial to this blog in regards to debate or theories? So far I see a lot of gibberish, verbal diarrhea and Gaelic poetry which means sweet fuck all to me. As I see it, your neck is in the noose. Whether you want to swing from it is up to you.
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@Johnsom33: That’s because you are not lazy and obsessed with shortcuts and abbreviations that make sense only to the lazy kind of deadheads that use them. Compliments to you for not falling into that trap mate. It honestly drives me nuts the way some people have turned texting and the Internet into an alien language that’s not from this planet. Sometimes I think I am reading things from Middle Earth.
Seriously though, can you imagine the kind of extra effort it takes to type “mate” as opposed to “m8″? What, it must take at least a couple extra minutes of a person’s time eh?
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@Scotjimland: “So far”. Exactly. Don’t be too surprised in the near future if you do not get a rude awakening. The issue hear “m8″ is that if you actually offered something entertaining, intelligent and tangible to this blog, he might be willing to reconsider deleting you. Instead, you snub your nose at him and people like me who are basically telling you to smarten up and therefore, I really do not see you having a long tenure on this blog, unless you wake the frak up and quickly.
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United’s flag is deepest red,
It shrouded all our Munich dead,
Before their limbs grew stiff and cold,
Their heart’s blood dyed it’s ev’ry fold.
Then raise United’s banner high,
Beneath it’s shade we’ll live and die,
So keep the faith and never fear,
We’ll keep the Red Flag flying here.
We’ll never die, we’ll never die,
We’ll never die, we’ll never die,
We’ll keep the Red flag flying high,
Because Man United will never die.
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Whispa m8s, its not important. All i think in my heart and soul just wishing for a Great WIN. Com on you Reds. did i wind up a loser. comon feel the Noise at OT.
As i told you, stick to football comments. re run yer comments.DO U understand a network. PMSL
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@Traverse: WELL SAID. hang our heads and bow.
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@Scotjimland: Look I’ve had enough. Please write coherently — ie. spend a little time reading your own comment before you hit submit. In comment #64 where you responded to Grognard, you actually wrote a series of sentences that I could understand. So it’s not like you are incapable of doing so.
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@Traverse: A date we’ll remember forever.
Hopefully we can hammer Pompey in remembrance and celebration of those lives lost!!
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With this kind of game against Pompey, everything is in our favor. EVERYTHING. I know anything can happen in football but it won’t stop me from having very high expectations as this is a great chance to boost our goal difference. I want at least a 3 or 4 goal-margin victory when all’s said and done but I especially want to see goals early in the game, so at least 2-0 by half time.
I want us to play with such hunger that there is absolutely NO chance of having to make excuses after the game if we even come close to dropping points. I absolutely hate excuses in football (AKA Rafa). We can’t leave anything up to chance, because that is exactly what the opposition (Portsmouth and others) will be looking for.
I hope SAF doesn’t use 4-5-1 like he had been recently, but I suppose I don’t really care as long as we win handily. He’ll probably use some fringe players (to keep up with his seemingly random team selection) as this game isn’t the hardest of games are there are harder games coming up that merit a rest for some of the first team. (However, we did have a full week or so in between matches.)
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@Scotjimland: First I’m a follower now I’m a cheerleader. Do you care to explain?
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@Johnsom33: Leave him alone, and perhaps he’ll go away!!
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bottoms up post 77.
I promise to behave soon, maybe when i am dead or 19.
Soz RR, I cant stop laughing
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thats me . off to kipper, aka bed
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@Red Ranter: RR, this guy is obviously playing interference with your Blog. He’s disrupting most of the conversation with inane chatter and unreadable drivel – and apparently, he’s getting a big kick out of doing it!!
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@Scotjimland: Well good luck on that. That’s your last post on here. Good bye son.
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@Redrich: It’s quite evident now in his latest post. He won’t trouble again. The great Stalin purge is in effect.
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@Red Ranter:
Thank you, comrade!!
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This will be an interesting fixture. Portsmouth will park the bus, and this will be a very different test from City and Arsenal. It will not be an open game and instead we will have to break them down. On current form you would expect a goal or two from Rooney so we should have no problem.
What we want to do is build some momentum. We need a long run that takes us past Milan, puts pressure on Chelsea to slip up, and if that happens who knows what could happen!
We are not the best team in Europe anymore, and probably not the best team in the league either.
However on our day we can still beat anyone, and in players like Rooney, Nani and Giggs we have matchwinners….while our defence is still strong.
The real question is whether our players can continue to rise to the occasion.
Interestingly so far this season we have done better in the big matches than last season. Hopefully that trend will continue. Although I wonder how we will survive the knockout stages of the Champions League without Ronaldo. Rooney has yet to transfer his blistering domestic form to Europe, and this is something he will have to do if we are to have a chance.
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@TurkishRED: @colver: I think the interesting factor in this game is the formation we play.
Does SAF go back to the 4-4-2 just because we are playing a weak team or does he continue with the 4-5-1, that’s been so successful for him lately??
For me, the 4-5-1 is more efficient. We’re using our full compliment of outfielders (which happens to be MF heavy) and not try to pair Rooney with the lesser skills of our remaining forwards. (Berbatov; low energy, offers little to our power/fast break efforts. Owen; little left in the way of clinical finishing. Macheda; too green around the gills to be a factor.)
If we only have one good forward, then so be it. Lets fill the rest of the side will those willing and able to bring us success and put the whole idea of dual strikers on hold until we have,…. at least 2 decent strikers!
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@Red Ranter: Thank god he’s gone. I’ll admit I took a few shots at him, but more than one person asked him to write coherently. He refused to change his ways and now he is gone.
It’s funny because I’ve been posting on here for 2-3 years and I notice people pop up on here and post alot, but it’s never sustained. Either they are booted or they just fade away, but the regulars stay consistent.
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@Redrich: 4-5-1 is pretty pointless against a team who will be playing 1 striker. It’s better to play 2 strikers for penetration purposes… we’ll need a sly Berbatov flick to unlock both a 10 man defence, followed by the floodgates. I’d go with:
VDS
Rafael Vidic Evans Fabio
Valencia Carrick Anderson Nani
Rooney Berbatov
If Ando is still on Leper Island, then Fletch or maybe even Gibson.
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@Traverse: I disagree, the pressure that a 5 man MF will put on a “parked bus” is much greater than the efforts of 2 CMF and PERHAPS the participation of a motivated 2nd striker.
With Nani being so effective of the right, this would be a great game to blood Valencia in a more central role. Here try this:-
PIG
Rafael-Vidic-Evans-Evra
Park-Fletcher-Carrick-Valencia-Nani
Rooney.
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Rio as the new England Captain. What you think – good or bad??
The motivating factor alone has to gob-slap him into the belief that he now has to perform to that high standard. But beyond that, he must think that a straight-and-narrow life style is requisite in maintaining his new heights.
Good for Rio, good for England, good for United!!
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@Traverse: SWEEEEEET!
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@Scotjimland: You should dress up like an American female high school cheerleader because that’s what you sound like.
All this rah rah shite is awfully boring. Haven’t you got something more interesting to contribute other than the cheering section?
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Damn, it’s early!
I see you guys have been busy on this site while I was away, lots of stuff happend. Scot got banned for the way he writes?
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@Johnsom33: What? The guy is very confusing mate.
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@Redrich: I think we need divine intervention for that by the name of Red Ranter. Seriously, RR needs to look at this guy and ask himself if this guy is worth the trouble and if he actually contributes an ounce of interesting content to the blog or just diarrhea?
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@Traverse: Respect bro, respect. Pure genious! Even though I wasn’t alive when it all happend, I can feel and understand the pain which occured because of their death. RIP Busby Babes, never forgotten!
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@Red Ranter: Good riddance to bad rubbish. Well done mate. Not an easy thing to do in most cases I’m sure but I have a feeling that deep inside, you kind of enjoyed terminating him.
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