Aug 21
Heinze loses arbitration for Liverpool move, what’s next for him and United?
As you must know by now, Gabriel Heinze has lost his bid to join Liverpool (more over at Soccerlens).
It puts him in a very difficult situation now as there’s barely a chance for him to win the appeal for his Liverpool move, and there is little time left to negotiate a move elsewhere.
Many Manchester United fans have turned on Heinze during this whole process (not surprisingly), and would be glad to see his back. While that’s an emotional response and not necessarily the best thing for the team (Heinze is our best left-back), it’s a valid concern that his actions (and especially the fact that he wanted to go to Liverpool of all teams) will have driven a wedge between him and the other players and apart from the stick he will get from the fans, there’s little doubt that he’ll definitely remain 2nd or 3rd choice now.
So what to do?
I don’t think he wants to go to France (that’ll be a step backwards for him), and unless a opportunity comes from La Liga or Serie A, or unless he buys out his remaining contract and heads over to Liverpool, there’s a good possibility that Heinze might stay at Manchester United, at least till January.
What do you guys think? What should Ferguson do with Heinze? Forgive him and give him a second chance, or have him taken out, bagged and dumped in a dark alley tonight?
Related items from Red Rants:
- Why Heinze Won’t Go to Liverpool
- Decision To Be Made On Heinze… Today!
- Heinze Has Gotten On My Nerves
- Why Moving to Liverpool Won’t Help Heinze
- Heinze Set to Leave OT
Tags: Manchester United News · Manchester United Players · Manchester United Transfer News & Rumours
August 21st, 2007 at 14:59
yep im turning this into an evra vs heinze, evra is better than heinze.
August 21st, 2007 at 15:03
If we sell him to raise money for a new striker.sell him.if not keep him.
August 21st, 2007 at 15:09
Keep him for what?
August 21st, 2007 at 15:14
After all this!!
You know what, I am stilled god damn baffled, why in the hell did he want join loserfool!
It makes me sick as a fan to see loserfool win, but how can a player change his alliance.
He needs to come out, say like man where his heart is!!
Though morally what he did was wrong and he will get what he deseverves and fergie will give him the treatment no doubt!!!
August 21st, 2007 at 15:14
No way is Evra a better defender than Heinze. The thought alone should get you shot. I agree with Ahmed – Heinze is our best left back. The best Utd has had since Dennis Irwin. If Sir Alex cannot offload him b4 the transfer window shuts he should remain a intergral part of our squad. Fans are fickle, a couple of supreme performances from Gaby and this mess will be forgotten until we can offload him in Jan or next season. Remember Rio the traitor, the Glazers, these had the fans up in arms but at the end of the day whatever the gaff decides i for one trust him.
August 21st, 2007 at 15:21
As a scouser this is a fantastic laugh. Heinze, a top international, wants to go to LFC despite Ferguson begging him for loyalty. You’ve now got a player who wants away, you can’t really play him. He costs you thousands every week unless you sell him abroad at a reduced fee. Never mind the warning to other players that Utd’s word is worth nothing. Brilliant! Thanks Gabby see you at Anfield eventually.
August 21st, 2007 at 15:27
Forgive him for he not knowest what he is doing
August 21st, 2007 at 15:35
Heinze has never been the player he was since the bad injury and i would be happy to get our money back for him. Evra looked very good up until injuries in April and was keeping Heinze out of the side on merit. However i do feel that we need some left sided defensive cover and we should have taken Baines when we had the chance.
August 21st, 2007 at 15:35
Heinze is a valuable member of our squad, and in many games I’d prefer him to playing Evra. He should definitely be given his chance to play. I also think he’ll be important in helping his compatriot Tevez settle in at Old Trafford
August 21st, 2007 at 15:38
I see the scousers are already on a first name basis with Gabby!
This is worse than I first thought!
August 21st, 2007 at 15:39
I do not understand Uniteds position on this (exept emotionally). They have a player they do not want. Gabby was fair to them not to buy out his contract at £4,5 M because of an aggrement, that United has broken. Seems like United gets a disrupted troop, loose the player (propably to Liverpool anyway) in January or May, when he can buy out his contract and they loose their good reputation for being honest and upfront with their players. Something I forgot?
August 21st, 2007 at 15:40
I’m like Harry. I am totally at a loss as to why he had this attitude
of wanting to leave at all costs.
Was it money?
Was he scared of Evra taking his job?
Why would he be any less scared of Riise at Liverpool?
There didn’t seem to be a problem with Ferguson. Indeed he was made
Captain at the end of the season.
During Copa America Ferguson kept saying if it wasn’t for his agent
there wouldn’t be a problem. well he got that a bit wrong!!
August 21st, 2007 at 15:42
Gabby is a class act (so much better than Mickie). We need the cover and options at left back that he will always give us. And don’t forget he did get us out of trouble with some awesome displays in the centre of defence at the back end of last season when Rio and Vidic were injured. Lets bury the hatchet and get on with winning a few games.
August 21st, 2007 at 16:03
i say we let him rot he deserves it but of course if we can get any money out of it lets do so, but not to liverpool definitely.
August 21st, 2007 at 16:05
bootiful game i read what you said how badly do you think heinze’s presence wld affect team spirit well if it cld get really bad then yeah he shld go haha
August 21st, 2007 at 16:08
I’m with a few others, fans are indeed a fickle bunch (look at spurs! WTF?!) and if he puts his heart on his sleeve for a couple matches, plays well and then comes out afterwards and says it was all a mistake and he’s sorry, I think he’d maybe remain.
Our biggest problem is that we do not have a viable, premier league quality backup left back. And that’s no way to head into a long campaign. If we sell him, we need to use the money on another LB, unless I’ve missed one of hte reserves who can step up? Is it John O’Shea’s new position?
August 21st, 2007 at 16:41
I can’t believe what I’m reading.
Alligence and Loyalty from a football player?
All football players are interested in is making money.
Heinze the traitor is no different and should be lynched.
August 21st, 2007 at 16:54
17. Do you believe it was all about money. I seriously doubt it. Im sure the Spanish contingent and maybe a certain Mr Mascherano maybe influenced his decision. At the end of the day he cannot move to Pool. So he can move to Franch in the next week or he can fight for his place in the team. Gaby is a fighter so im sure we will see him in Utd red again cos its really pointless haveing your best left back rotting in the reserves as it will do nothing for morale of the team. Thats my 2 cents worth….
August 21st, 2007 at 17:02
Ah the mists in my crystal ball are clearing, I see a spring defensive injury crisis and 2 games a week needing to be played to stay in contention for silverware but oh no Gabby cant manfully step into the gap because we lynched him due to a ancient, outdated view of morals and loyalty . No instead I see before me………..a make shift. Is it Fletcher ? O’Shea ? Hargreaves? Who cares were buggered.
Get real
If he wasn’t class we wouldn’t be bothered about him going to the scouse
Re-negotiate, clear the air and get on with it.
August 21st, 2007 at 17:10
Well I used to rate him.But now he can rot in the reserves or sell him.Last season he was an absolute crap and now he wanted to leave for Criplepool(they’ll never walk again)is sickening.Fergie said he had plans for him and that he was training,so I don’t know what will happen to him.As a fan I don’t want him at United…period.
August 21st, 2007 at 17:27
seing evra lately too much even i had my change of mind
defence wise heinze>evra
overall for the team Evra >>>> Heinze
And if he’ll be back and even if he starts playing good ( idoubt he’ll get enough chances) then also fans will give him some stick for sure and by the time he earns respect he’ll be too old to carry on so its better he moves out for himself as for the club i’ll be happy to have a top flight cover anyday fuck the fans and the stick he can handle it and ronny might help him as well
August 21st, 2007 at 17:31
For sure heinze is a better defender than evra, but the guy is a twat!!
If you guys watched the asia tour, good old pat is real nice guy! Good for team morale!!
But if evra is not good enough and heinze is a twat, throw Evans in to the equation.
August 21st, 2007 at 17:49
To the few who are baffled as to why Gabby wanted to join Liverfool, the answer is quite simple.
1. He wanted to play first team football and Benitez promised him that.
2. He liked the team atmosphere and Spanish element at Assfield.
3. He had no chance of joining Chelsea so joining Livertool would allow him his childish revenge on Fergie for not playing him.
4. What the Hell does he care about rivalries, he’s Argentinian. In his mind Argentines shouldn’t even be walking on UK soil, yet alone playing.
5. He’s a disloyal, underappreciated total tosser who despite his ability, finds incredible ways to make a fool of himself. A total ASSCLOWN.
I actually must say I was a Gabby Heinze fan as I felt and still do that he is twice the player Evra is. Evra has more pace and that’s it. Gabby is superior in every other skill discipline. Still, he quite often had concentration lapses ala Rio style. I thought he played magnificently at the Copa and it’s a shame Fergie cannot see that he should have been first choice. Lets not forget what he was like two seasons ago when he was voted team MVP. Last year he struggled a bit to find his fitness and his form in a very demanding position. In that I am fair to him. As for his attitude of late, I think it comes from extreme frustration and the pride he has found once again because of the Copa. It confirmed to him that he is first team material on any team in the world and that Fergie has betrayed him in his mind. So where ever he goes I bid him good luck and farewell. I also add this comment “GOOD RIDDANCE TO BAD RUBBISH!” Whether you have been treated right or wrong, you stick by Fergie and your teammates. This loyalty maintains calm and serenity in the dressing room and training ground. He was lacking in this area big time.
August 21st, 2007 at 18:34
Heinze may be a better DEFENDER but he is NOT a better left back. We are a team who play best with width and guys like neville and evra can provide that – heinze has lost a lot since his injuries and is NOT the same player he was
August 21st, 2007 at 20:06
I think we should sell him and buy someone else… Chillieni would be perfect!!
August 21st, 2007 at 20:29
maybe we should keep him.. ferguson did say he had a role with us ddt he?
August 21st, 2007 at 20:48
Shaheen, with all due respect mate, Evra is not a better left back than Heinze. His marking is poorer, his tackling is almost non existent at times, he lacks the physicality to play the game hard in his own half and he is awful in the air and marking in the box. Yes he gives the team better width and pace down the left side but Heinze drives longer balls better, and is an adequate if unspectacular crosser. His tenacity has always been very good. Other than pace Evra beats him out in loyalty only. And I guess that is all that SAF is looking for. The type of injury He suffered two years ago takes a long time to recover from. Watching him at this year’s Copa tournament convinced me of his improved health and form. And lets face it, if you are good enough to play for a national football giant like Argentina, I think that almost certainly makes you good enough to play for club side or to be higher up in the pecking order to Patrice Evra. I really feel both parties were wrong here. United treated Gabby with little loyalty and patience after his return, and in turn Gabby through the shite right back in their faces. I am relieved that United won the league decision though and I hope they can sell him to Spain or Italy and get some money for a striker. I also think that Leighton Baines or Gareth Bale should have been much more of a priority for United if they knew that Heinze had no future at the club. Sylvestre although not terrible, is not my answer for depth in that area.
August 22nd, 2007 at 0:24
Grognard, did you watch Heinze at all last year. His positioning was poor, he was regularly skinned by average wingers, his aerial ability was moderate at best, whilst his ability in possession and distribution was an absolute disgrace. I also think your description of his crossing as adequate is generous. He got more than enough loyalty from the club, being allowed to recuperate in Spain, he played more games than Evra last season and was picked ahead of him in the FA Cup Final (a ludicrous decision in retrospect) and given the captains armband in the final league games instead of Brown.
I can count the number of performance when he played to his proper level last season on one hand. His highlights included losing his marker to allow Chelsea to equalise at OT, selling Vidic short to give Milan a critical second goal in the San Siro, looking like a rabbit caught in headlights against Sheff Utd at home (where he and Brown gave one of the worst defensive displays I have had the pleasure of witnessing) along with giving the ball away more times than I care to remember over the season.
His ONLY loyalty is to his country which has been a detriment to the club on a number of occasions. His presence at the Olympics meant he was unavailable at the start of his first season (when we were suffering with a lack of defenders). Three summers of consecutive International football was likely a contributing factor in his knee ligament damage. Finally, rushing his recovery to make the world cup compromised his fitness last season, effectively ruling him out for the first 2 months. I can see no reason why the man deserves any sympathy or loyalty, nor has he any justification for thinking he should start ahead of Evra.
August 22nd, 2007 at 0:40
@ S. Wainwright & Hill:
United have not gone back on thier word, or broken any agreements. If that was the case they would have lost the arbitration hearing. Even a scouser should have deduced that from the hearing’s conclusion. Just to refresh this is what they said-
(From BBC) The arbitration panel’s verdict read: “The Premier League Board-appointed panel have heard submissions of evidence from both parties and has ruled to dismiss the player’s case.
“The hearing concluded that nature and intention of the disputed 13 June 2007 letter, especially when taken in context of verbal discussions and Manchester United FC’s transfer policy, was unambiguous in that it envisages only an international transfer.
“Furthermore, the hearing finds the letter constitutes an ‘agreement to agree’ and did not create an obligation or binding agreement for the club to transfer the player to any particular club.”
See, it’s quite simple really. They player was told he could move, but only to a club that was suitable to both parties. I’m sure if Lyon was suiteable to Heinze he would have been on a plane a while ago. But it’s not, (as mentioned in a previous post going back to France would be seen as a step down) and as per said ‘agreement’ he stays.
At no time has anyone from United say that Gabby wasn’t wanted. It was he who didn’t want to fight for first team position. EVERYONE has to impress for first team football. Even our Golden Boy Ronnie has said he still fights for his postion week in/week out.
But I digress, I can see why you are trying to make your points (as detached from reality as they are). If had Risse as my left back I would be longing for Heinze’s quality as well.
August 22nd, 2007 at 0:49
@ other Red Devils:
I tend to agree with Red or Dead’s comments 13 & 19. I feel much more confident with Heinze on the squad than our other options.
Silvestre was very static going forward in the Reading game. I don’t think I saw him send any long balls to the other side. Most of his passes were short and unimaginative.
August 22nd, 2007 at 1:17
I think he shouldn´t be forgiven… we got many problems at the moment and forgiving him will be a sign of weakness… something like “we had no other choice”… too bad though he has been behaving like bastard, I loved him…
August 22nd, 2007 at 3:08
JB: Yes I did watch him play last year and yes, he did have some rough outings. However, I also have posted in the past that he was coming off a serious injury that takes a lot of time to get better and even longer for him to find his form. His performance at the Copa in a super serious and high pressure tournament only justifies my faith in him. He was outstanding. The reason top clubs in Italy and Spain have shown interest is because they see what I see and they forgive his lack of form and excuse it based on the circumstances. Do not misunderstand, I have no problem with Evra and I am very upset with Heinze for his lack of loyalty and Judas like ambitions. Nevertheless, I will be fair and I see much more in the player. Some injuries take time to recover from. Do not forget the quality of play he showed a few years back when he was voted by fans as team MVP. That is how he looked at the Copa. I would take Heinze’s defending over Evra’s pace and width anytime. His long passes and crosses more than make up for his lack of pace and width. It’s a shame things turned out the way they did. Fergie is a great manager and motivator but he has had a history of badly mistreating and casting out some of Manchester United’s finest legends. Beckham, van Nistelrooy and Keane are just the most obvious examples. His mind games and team exclusions created feelings amongst these players where changing teams was the only recourse due to their feelings of under appreciation and betrayal. I will say this though, at least none of those players showed disloyalty by wanting to sign for LiverFool. For that Heinze will never be forgiven.
August 22nd, 2007 at 8:00
This is an interesting article by Goal.com..tho i wonder if it can be taken seriously
August 22nd, 2007 at 8:54
This Henize to Real rumour is interesting.
I am very pissed of with Heinze. not because of ‘wanting to move’, but for ‘wanting to move to Liverpool’.
Even though I am emotional over this, I still believe it will not be a bad thing to keep him. He is better than Evra. Don’t now however if he will be able to withstand the annoyance from the fans?
What I find strange is that during the time, NO OTHER OFFERS WERE RECIEVED… why is that?
August 22nd, 2007 at 8:59
sell him and get the money to buy a new striker.heinze is not in the right state of mind to play with united again. Juve were staying put and this is their chance to take him.
August 22nd, 2007 at 9:57
Louis Saha will answer Manchester United’s strike-force problems by returning to action against Tottenham on Sunday following knee problems. (The Sun)
August 22nd, 2007 at 10:24
I think that if Louis Saha plays, it will be a good omen to signal the end of our ‘bad luck’
August 22nd, 2007 at 10:49
saha will def. give the fire power we’ve been missing upfront, and whats all this am reading bout heinze should stay, i think patience has run out from every1 including saf..i don see him picking him anytym soon..and evra is far much better than heinze.for the pro heinze,get last years video and see how he costed the team e’g both milan games
August 22nd, 2007 at 11:23
Ahmed, you state that Heinze can still buy out his contract and go to Liverpool, but I thought that the deadline for him to buy out his contract expired in May, at the end of last season?
August 22nd, 2007 at 11:32
Grognard, I think we will have to agree to disagree. I think the modern game and our own style demands major contributions offensively from full backs, something I do not think Heinze can provide. I haven’t forgotten his performances in his first season, particularly a goal on his debut, some excellent defensive displays (including that tackle at Liverpool) and a key role in the O’Shea goal at Highbury in the 4-2. Yet that was 3 years ago, a long time in the football world. Personally I can’t fathom what you see in his long passing and crossing which at best is one step above pub standard.
Interest from top clubs in Spain and Italy appears to be lower than suggested. Neither Barca nor Real seem to particularly care and none of the Italian clubs have stumped up a fairly modest transfer fee in the current climate. His performance in the Copa maybe a misnomer given the vast superiority Argentina enjoyed over their opponents, except in the final where Heinze was turned inside out. I agree that his injury takes signifigant time to recover from, the thing that sticks is that he used OUR time and resources with the sole aim of being ready for the World Cup with scant regards for the next club season.
IMO the fans (including myself) and the press mistook a good, committed player for a world class one in his first year failing to recognise a number of glaring technical deficiencies.
August 22nd, 2007 at 16:37
JB:
I agree that today’s fullback needs to be more attack minded but the problem here is that Heinze is attack minded. He just doesn’t do it quite the same way Evra does. Two distinctly different styles. And his passing and long crossing is far better than pub standard, come on mate!! As for using Man Utd resources to prepare for the World Cup, well I cannot really blame him for that. I think most world class players would have done the same. Certainly Rooney did. That’s not showing disloyalty, that’s taking advantage of what’s available. You talk about technical deficiencies like he belongs in Division 2. Up until the Brazil game he was in the top three Argentine player of the tournament. There were no technical deficiencies evident. Brazil played a physical and very surprising game in the Final and he as well as the whole team were exposed as a team. They were over confident and that arrogance caused the defensive breakdowns. His only real flaw other than pace is his occasional mental breakdown (aka Rio Ferdinand). When Rio performs one, nobody says anything, and his mental gaffs are far more frequent. No JB, although I do agree with some of your points, you won’t succeed in souring me over Heinze on his abilities. You’re just being bitter I’m afraid. The man turned scoundrel and betrayed the club, and for that we should be angry. However, I think the way the club rewarded his original loyalty was pretty poor. He should never have lost his position to Evra. In fact the only way he could get back into physical shape and form was to be played more often. Instead he languished on the bench. Yet Argentina, arguably in the top three national sides on the planet felt he was not only capable of playing for them, but they used him at CB and LB. I am elated that United was victorious in the league’s ruling and now I hope they can ship him off. Perhaps the top two or three clubs in both Italy and Spain have cooled off due to all this nonsense but the second tier teams as well as Lyon seem interested. United should take what they are offering and get rid of this public relations nightmare. For me it’s a shame he acted so poorly at the end and that the team soured on him before he could be 100% again. I think both parties are to blame in this mess but Heinze deserves what received at the end. To want to go to Liverfool was just unforgivable. And just so you are clear on this, I do like Evra and feel he is a good player.
August 22nd, 2007 at 17:15
Grognard
Fair point some of the criticisms were harsh, but they were more to illustrate a point rather than to compare him to a pub player! I do not mean he is a Division 2 level player but his lack of composure in possession/passing was evident when compared to his team mates. On a number of occasions (Celtic away sticks out) he was the weak point in the team when in possession and it served to provide opponents a weak point when marking/pressing. This is what I mean when referring to technical deficiencies. I would also say that he is prone to being dragged out of position paticulary at CB (although the same is true of Evra).
In terms of attacking, towards the tail end of the season in a number of games Ronaldo was being double marked when on the wings. During these games (particularly Milan and Chelsea) there was a distinct lack of support from the full backs. Now I would expect this off Brown and O’Shea (square pegs in round holes) but not Heinze. This is where Evra (and G Nev) being absent hit us hard.
As for the world cup I don’t particularly object to his actions, but there was a certain disregard to his long term recovery making it difficult to have any sympathy for Heinze. Similarly I fail to see any particular level of loyalty from Heinze to the club. Be careful not to confuse committed playing style with loyalty. I fail to see how the club has mistreated him. He came back unfit from the world cup, when he regained fitness he was rotated with Evra (who played superbly until Liverpool away), played in the 2 league games against Chelsea, the FA Cup Final and most of the critical CL games. He was then told if he wished to leave he could for a reasonable fee as long as it was abroad. We had a league to win he can hardly expect to be played in preference to Evra just to facilitate his recovery. Just casting my eye over last years line ups he still played a fair few times before the turn of the year.
Sorry for the long winded reply and if I came across as bitter but this particular issue has annoyed me.
PS: Just to show what I know Madrid are being heavily linked with an £8m bid in the Spanish press!
August 22nd, 2007 at 17:16
JB:
I hate to say I was right but I guess I was. Apparently Real Madrid has agreed on a the fee for Heinze. Soccer 365 from the US reports the following;
“Real Madrid have agree a fee with Manchester United for Gabriel Heinze, according to reports in Spain. Marca claims that a fee of around 12 million Euros (just over £8m) has been agreed between the two clubs for the Argentine left-back, who has been prevented from joining Liverpool. It is thought United are happy to sell him to a club outside of the Premier League and so it could be up to Heinze whether he wants to return to Spain. The Argentine is apparently planning an appeal against the Premier League ruling which denies him the chance to join Liverpool. He could be faced with a tough decision – take the exit route to Madrid or pin all his hopes on an appeal that could fail and see him stuck at United.”
Hopefully this turns out to be true.