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	<title>Comments on: Heinze loses arbitration for Liverpool move, what&#8217;s next for him and United?</title>
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		<title>By: Grognard</title>
		<link>http://redrants.com/heinze-loses-arbitration-for-liverpool-move-whats-next-for-him-and-united/comment-page-1/#comment-3372</link>
		<dc:creator>Grognard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2007 16:16:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>JB:

I hate to say I was right but I guess I was.  Apparently Real Madrid has agreed on a the fee for Heinze.  Soccer 365 from the US reports the following;

&quot;Real Madrid have agree a fee with Manchester United for Gabriel Heinze, according to reports in Spain.  Marca claims that a fee of around 12 million Euros (just over Â£8m) has been agreed between the two clubs for the Argentine left-back, who has been prevented from joining Liverpool.  It is thought United are happy to sell him to a club outside of the Premier League and so it could be up to Heinze whether he wants to return to Spain.  The Argentine is apparently planning an appeal against the Premier League ruling which denies him the chance to join Liverpool.  He could be faced with a tough decision - take the exit route to Madrid or pin all his hopes on an appeal that could fail and see him stuck at United.&quot;

Hopefully this turns out to be true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JB:</p>
<p>I hate to say I was right but I guess I was.  Apparently Real Madrid has agreed on a the fee for Heinze.  Soccer 365 from the US reports the following;</p>
<p>&#8220;Real Madrid have agree a fee with Manchester United for Gabriel Heinze, according to reports in Spain.  Marca claims that a fee of around 12 million Euros (just over Â£8m) has been agreed between the two clubs for the Argentine left-back, who has been prevented from joining Liverpool.  It is thought United are happy to sell him to a club outside of the Premier League and so it could be up to Heinze whether he wants to return to Spain.  The Argentine is apparently planning an appeal against the Premier League ruling which denies him the chance to join Liverpool.  He could be faced with a tough decision &#8211; take the exit route to Madrid or pin all his hopes on an appeal that could fail and see him stuck at United.&#8221;</p>
<p>Hopefully this turns out to be true.</p>
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		<title>By: JB</title>
		<link>http://redrants.com/heinze-loses-arbitration-for-liverpool-move-whats-next-for-him-and-united/comment-page-1/#comment-3371</link>
		<dc:creator>JB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2007 16:15:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Grognard
Fair point some of the criticisms were harsh, but they were more to illustrate a point rather than to compare him to a pub player! I do not mean he is a Division 2 level player but his lack of composure in possession/passing was evident when compared to his team mates.  On a number of occasions (Celtic away sticks out) he was the weak point in the team when in possession and it served to provide opponents a weak point when marking/pressing.  This is what I mean when referring to technical deficiencies. I would also say that he is prone to being dragged out of position paticulary at CB (although the same is true of Evra).

In terms of attacking, towards the tail end of the season in a number of games Ronaldo was being double marked when on the wings.  During these games (particularly Milan and Chelsea) there was a distinct lack of support from the full backs.  Now I would expect this off Brown and Oâ€™Shea (square pegs in round holes) but not Heinze.  This is where Evra (and G Nev) being absent hit us hard.

As for the world cup I donâ€™t particularly object to his actions, but there was a certain disregard to his long term recovery making it difficult to have any sympathy for Heinze.  Similarly I fail to see any particular level of loyalty from Heinze to the club.  Be careful not to confuse committed playing style with loyalty.  I fail to see how the club has mistreated him.  He came back unfit from the world cup, when he regained fitness he was rotated with Evra (who played superbly until Liverpool away), played in the 2 league games against Chelsea, the FA Cup Final and most of the critical CL games. He was then told if he wished to leave he could for a reasonable fee as long as it was abroad. We had a league to win he can hardly expect to be played in preference to Evra just to facilitate his recovery. Just casting my eye over last years line ups he still played a fair few times before the turn of the year.

Sorry for the long winded reply and if I came across as bitter but this particular issue has annoyed me.

PS: Just to show what I know Madrid are being heavily linked with an Â£8m bid in the Spanish press!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grognard<br />
Fair point some of the criticisms were harsh, but they were more to illustrate a point rather than to compare him to a pub player! I do not mean he is a Division 2 level player but his lack of composure in possession/passing was evident when compared to his team mates.  On a number of occasions (Celtic away sticks out) he was the weak point in the team when in possession and it served to provide opponents a weak point when marking/pressing.  This is what I mean when referring to technical deficiencies. I would also say that he is prone to being dragged out of position paticulary at CB (although the same is true of Evra).</p>
<p>In terms of attacking, towards the tail end of the season in a number of games Ronaldo was being double marked when on the wings.  During these games (particularly Milan and Chelsea) there was a distinct lack of support from the full backs.  Now I would expect this off Brown and Oâ€™Shea (square pegs in round holes) but not Heinze.  This is where Evra (and G Nev) being absent hit us hard.</p>
<p>As for the world cup I donâ€™t particularly object to his actions, but there was a certain disregard to his long term recovery making it difficult to have any sympathy for Heinze.  Similarly I fail to see any particular level of loyalty from Heinze to the club.  Be careful not to confuse committed playing style with loyalty.  I fail to see how the club has mistreated him.  He came back unfit from the world cup, when he regained fitness he was rotated with Evra (who played superbly until Liverpool away), played in the 2 league games against Chelsea, the FA Cup Final and most of the critical CL games. He was then told if he wished to leave he could for a reasonable fee as long as it was abroad. We had a league to win he can hardly expect to be played in preference to Evra just to facilitate his recovery. Just casting my eye over last years line ups he still played a fair few times before the turn of the year.</p>
<p>Sorry for the long winded reply and if I came across as bitter but this particular issue has annoyed me.</p>
<p>PS: Just to show what I know Madrid are being heavily linked with an Â£8m bid in the Spanish press!</p>
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		<title>By: Grognard</title>
		<link>http://redrants.com/heinze-loses-arbitration-for-liverpool-move-whats-next-for-him-and-united/comment-page-1/#comment-3368</link>
		<dc:creator>Grognard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2007 15:37:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>JB:

I agree that today&#039;s fullback needs to be more attack minded  but the problem here is that Heinze is attack minded.  He just doesn&#039;t do it quite the same way Evra does.  Two distinctly different styles.  And his passing and long crossing is far better than pub standard, come on mate!!  As for using Man Utd resources to prepare for the World Cup, well I cannot really blame him for that.  I think most world class players would have done the same.  Certainly Rooney did.  That&#039;s not showing disloyalty, that&#039;s taking advantage of what&#039;s available.  You talk about technical deficiencies like he belongs in Division 2.  Up until the Brazil game he was in the top three Argentine player of the tournament.  There were no technical deficiencies evident.  Brazil played a physical and very surprising game in the Final and he as well as the whole team were exposed as a team.  They were over confident and that arrogance caused the defensive breakdowns.  His only real flaw other than pace is his occasional mental breakdown (aka Rio Ferdinand).  When Rio performs one, nobody says anything, and his mental gaffs are far more frequent.  No JB, although I do agree with some of your points, you won&#039;t succeed in souring me over Heinze on his abilities.  You&#039;re just being bitter I&#039;m afraid.  The man turned scoundrel and betrayed the club, and for that we should be angry.  However, I think the way the club rewarded his  original loyalty was pretty poor.  He should never have lost his position to Evra.  In fact the only way he could get back into physical shape and form was to be played more often.  Instead he languished on the bench.  Yet Argentina, arguably in the top three national sides on the planet felt he was not only capable of playing for them, but they used him  at CB and LB.  I am elated that United was victorious in the league&#039;s ruling and now I hope they can ship him off.  Perhaps the top two or three clubs in both Italy and Spain have cooled off due to all this nonsense but the second tier teams as well as Lyon seem interested.  United should take what they are offering and get rid of this public relations nightmare.  For me it&#039;s a shame he acted so poorly at the end and that the team soured on him before he could be 100% again.  I think both parties are to blame in this mess but Heinze deserves what received at the end.  To want to go to Liverfool was just unforgivable.  And just so you are clear on this, I do like Evra and feel he is a good player.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JB:</p>
<p>I agree that today&#8217;s fullback needs to be more attack minded  but the problem here is that Heinze is attack minded.  He just doesn&#8217;t do it quite the same way Evra does.  Two distinctly different styles.  And his passing and long crossing is far better than pub standard, come on mate!!  As for using Man Utd resources to prepare for the World Cup, well I cannot really blame him for that.  I think most world class players would have done the same.  Certainly Rooney did.  That&#8217;s not showing disloyalty, that&#8217;s taking advantage of what&#8217;s available.  You talk about technical deficiencies like he belongs in Division 2.  Up until the Brazil game he was in the top three Argentine player of the tournament.  There were no technical deficiencies evident.  Brazil played a physical and very surprising game in the Final and he as well as the whole team were exposed as a team.  They were over confident and that arrogance caused the defensive breakdowns.  His only real flaw other than pace is his occasional mental breakdown (aka Rio Ferdinand).  When Rio performs one, nobody says anything, and his mental gaffs are far more frequent.  No JB, although I do agree with some of your points, you won&#8217;t succeed in souring me over Heinze on his abilities.  You&#8217;re just being bitter I&#8217;m afraid.  The man turned scoundrel and betrayed the club, and for that we should be angry.  However, I think the way the club rewarded his  original loyalty was pretty poor.  He should never have lost his position to Evra.  In fact the only way he could get back into physical shape and form was to be played more often.  Instead he languished on the bench.  Yet Argentina, arguably in the top three national sides on the planet felt he was not only capable of playing for them, but they used him  at CB and LB.  I am elated that United was victorious in the league&#8217;s ruling and now I hope they can ship him off.  Perhaps the top two or three clubs in both Italy and Spain have cooled off due to all this nonsense but the second tier teams as well as Lyon seem interested.  United should take what they are offering and get rid of this public relations nightmare.  For me it&#8217;s a shame he acted so poorly at the end and that the team soured on him before he could be 100% again.  I think both parties are to blame in this mess but Heinze deserves what received at the end.  To want to go to Liverfool was just unforgivable.  And just so you are clear on this, I do like Evra and feel he is a good player.</p>
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		<title>By: JB</title>
		<link>http://redrants.com/heinze-loses-arbitration-for-liverpool-move-whats-next-for-him-and-united/comment-page-1/#comment-3352</link>
		<dc:creator>JB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2007 10:32:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Grognard, I think we will have to agree to disagree. I think the modern game and our own style demands major contributions offensively from full backs, something I do not think Heinze can provide. I haven&#039;t forgotten his performances in his first season, particularly a goal on his debut, some excellent defensive displays (including that tackle at Liverpool) and a key role in the O&#039;Shea goal at Highbury in the 4-2.  Yet that was 3 years ago, a long time in the football world. Personally I can&#039;t fathom what you see in his long passing and crossing which at best is one step above pub standard.  

Interest from top clubs in Spain and Italy appears to be lower than suggested. Neither Barca nor Real seem to particularly care and none of the Italian clubs have stumped up a fairly modest transfer fee in the current climate. His performance in the Copa maybe a misnomer given the vast superiority Argentina enjoyed over their opponents, except in the final where Heinze was turned inside out. I agree that his injury takes signifigant time to recover from, the thing that sticks is that he used OUR time and resources with the sole aim of being ready for the World Cup with scant regards for the next club season.

IMO the fans (including myself) and the press mistook a good, committed player for a world class one in his first year failing to recognise a number of glaring technical deficiencies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grognard, I think we will have to agree to disagree. I think the modern game and our own style demands major contributions offensively from full backs, something I do not think Heinze can provide. I haven&#8217;t forgotten his performances in his first season, particularly a goal on his debut, some excellent defensive displays (including that tackle at Liverpool) and a key role in the O&#8217;Shea goal at Highbury in the 4-2.  Yet that was 3 years ago, a long time in the football world. Personally I can&#8217;t fathom what you see in his long passing and crossing which at best is one step above pub standard.  </p>
<p>Interest from top clubs in Spain and Italy appears to be lower than suggested. Neither Barca nor Real seem to particularly care and none of the Italian clubs have stumped up a fairly modest transfer fee in the current climate. His performance in the Copa maybe a misnomer given the vast superiority Argentina enjoyed over their opponents, except in the final where Heinze was turned inside out. I agree that his injury takes signifigant time to recover from, the thing that sticks is that he used OUR time and resources with the sole aim of being ready for the World Cup with scant regards for the next club season.</p>
<p>IMO the fans (including myself) and the press mistook a good, committed player for a world class one in his first year failing to recognise a number of glaring technical deficiencies.</p>
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		<title>By: Nino</title>
		<link>http://redrants.com/heinze-loses-arbitration-for-liverpool-move-whats-next-for-him-and-united/comment-page-1/#comment-3350</link>
		<dc:creator>Nino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2007 10:23:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Ahmed, you state that Heinze can still buy out his contract and go to Liverpool, but I thought that the deadline for him to buy out his contract expired in May, at the end of last season?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ahmed, you state that Heinze can still buy out his contract and go to Liverpool, but I thought that the deadline for him to buy out his contract expired in May, at the end of last season?</p>
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		<title>By: manutd jaluo</title>
		<link>http://redrants.com/heinze-loses-arbitration-for-liverpool-move-whats-next-for-him-and-united/comment-page-1/#comment-3343</link>
		<dc:creator>manutd jaluo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2007 09:49:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>saha will def. give the fire power we&#039;ve been missing upfront, and whats all this am reading bout heinze should stay, i think patience has run out from every1 including saf..i don see him picking him anytym soon..and evra is far much better than heinze.for the pro heinze,get last years video and see how he costed the team e&#039;g both milan games</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>saha will def. give the fire power we&#8217;ve been missing upfront, and whats all this am reading bout heinze should stay, i think patience has run out from every1 including saf..i don see him picking him anytym soon..and evra is far much better than heinze.for the pro heinze,get last years video and see how he costed the team e&#8217;g both milan games</p>
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		<title>By: karl</title>
		<link>http://redrants.com/heinze-loses-arbitration-for-liverpool-move-whats-next-for-him-and-united/comment-page-1/#comment-3337</link>
		<dc:creator>karl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2007 09:24:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think that if Louis Saha plays, it will be a good omen to signal the end of our &#039;bad luck&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that if Louis Saha plays, it will be a good omen to signal the end of our &#8216;bad luck&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: united 4 eva</title>
		<link>http://redrants.com/heinze-loses-arbitration-for-liverpool-move-whats-next-for-him-and-united/comment-page-1/#comment-3336</link>
		<dc:creator>united 4 eva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2007 08:57:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Louis Saha will answer Manchester United&#039;s strike-force problems by returning to action against Tottenham on Sunday following knee problems. (The Sun)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Louis Saha will answer Manchester United&#8217;s strike-force problems by returning to action against Tottenham on Sunday following knee problems. (The Sun)</p>
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		<title>By: nelson otieno</title>
		<link>http://redrants.com/heinze-loses-arbitration-for-liverpool-move-whats-next-for-him-and-united/comment-page-1/#comment-3335</link>
		<dc:creator>nelson otieno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2007 07:59:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>sell him and get the money to buy a new striker.heinze is not in the right state of mind to play with united again. Juve were staying put and this is their chance to take him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sell him and get the money to buy a new striker.heinze is not in the right state of mind to play with united again. Juve were staying put and this is their chance to take him.</p>
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		<title>By: karl</title>
		<link>http://redrants.com/heinze-loses-arbitration-for-liverpool-move-whats-next-for-him-and-united/comment-page-1/#comment-3334</link>
		<dc:creator>karl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2007 07:54:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>This Henize to Real rumour is interesting.

I am very pissed of with Heinze. not because of &#039;wanting to move&#039;, but for &#039;wanting to move to Liverpool&#039;.
Even though I am emotional over this, I still believe it will not be a bad thing to keep him. He is better than Evra. Don&#039;t now however if he will be able to withstand the annoyance from the fans?

What I find strange is that during the time, NO OTHER OFFERS WERE RECIEVED... why is that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This Henize to Real rumour is interesting.</p>
<p>I am very pissed of with Heinze. not because of &#8216;wanting to move&#8217;, but for &#8216;wanting to move to Liverpool&#8217;.<br />
Even though I am emotional over this, I still believe it will not be a bad thing to keep him. He is better than Evra. Don&#8217;t now however if he will be able to withstand the annoyance from the fans?</p>
<p>What I find strange is that during the time, NO OTHER OFFERS WERE RECIEVED&#8230; why is that?</p>
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