Feb 01

Hell is…being dominated by Charlie Adam

Tag: Match Reports @ 5:36 pm

1176230-24138164-640-360Hell is a place that’s often been described, though it has never been seen. A cold, windy and rainy afternoon in Stoke, however, would gain a rather large consensus if the description of hell was to be put up to public vote.

Everything is quintessentially awful about Stoke. Their fans, their manager, the horrible football they insist to practise, their players and their horrendous wind-swept ground, where footballers and fans are at the elements’ mercy, with sudden gusts of wind making play almost impossible.

None of those things, however, can claim the accolade for worst thing on display at the Britannia today, for that award can have one recipient, and one recipient only: Manchester United Football Club.

Quite how United continue to produce such dismal performances remains a mystery, for even the greatest ineptitude concedes occasional breaks to quality and optimism, but United are relentless in their pursuit for mind-boggling uselessness and fading standards.

Granted, bad luck can be blamed losing Jonny Evans and Phil Jones in the space of 40 minutes and having the match officiated by a referee of quite remarkable incompetence and, at a push, even for Michael Carrick’s deflection that led to Stoke’s opener but, ultimately, winners build their own good luck.

And winners, United are not.

Not on the pitch, where another dismal performance saw them surrender to Stoke, a side they had beaten in 11 of their last 12 meetings, for the first time since Boxing Day 1984, and nor off it, where the club’s failure to strengthen the squad in the January’s transfer window beyond Juan Mata’s arrival looks to be already delivering its damning verdict.

The Spaniard started alongside Ashley Young and Wayne Rooney in support of Robin Van Persie in what was supposed to be a rather modern 4-2-3-1, before it quickly became apparent that United were, in fact, reverting to the 4-4-2 of old with Mata, one of the game’s best attacking midfielders, exiled on the wing.

With Michael Carrick and Tom Cleverley unable to produce anything resembling some momentum, United quickly settled into their own customary and predictable football, a game so pedestrian that other teams could defend blindfolded, such is the predictability of United’s movement up-front.

Trying to batter down a wall by headbutting it might seem like an act of bravery, but after countless knocks to the head other strategies might have to be employed, particularly as the wall shows no signs of buckling.

Alas, United kept hoofing forward which, given the atrocious weather conditions, made the whole game look very 1980s, not less because of United’s poor performance, which became even worse as Michael Carrick was forced to replace Phil Jones at the back, with Danny Welbeck coming on and Rooney dropping deep in midfield.

United had already lost Evans to injury, with Rafael coming on in his place as Chris Smalling switched to centre-back, the positive signs he had displayed against Cardiff nothing but a long distant memory in a game throughout which the United defender looked as solid as a house built on bread crumbles.

With Stoke 1-0 ahead thanks to Charlie Adam’s deflected free-kick, United’s troubles were momentarily eased straight away in the second half as Robin Van Persie guided Juan Mata’s brilliant lofted pass beyond Asmir Begovic, before Adam produced the best goal he’s ever scored, or will indeed score in his next three lives, to put Stoke 2-1 up.

The hosts could have increased their advantage, with Marko Arnautovic losing Smalling before firing just wide, while Oussama Assaidi forced David De Gea into an excellent save, while United, five offensive players on the pitch at the same time, continued their procession of wide passes and aimless crosses, worth of a footballing funeral.

Hernandez replaced Van Persie, a pointless substitution given that the Mexican is far from being a creative player, but nothing changed, as United continued to pile men in the box to no avail, before Tom Cleverley opted to sky an excellent chance in the dying minutes, after Begovic had deflected Rooney’s free-kick against the post.

These squad’s limits are there for all to be seen but, unfortunately, the ones who keep ignoring them are the same that should be working to rectifying them.

We came, we hoofed it, we lost. And we’re awfully poor.

Dan


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Tags: Match Reports

135 Responses to “Hell is…being dominated by Charlie Adam”

  • Deluded Dave Moyes Fan Club

    Buy your next Manchester United DVD in the Mega store….Watch guest stars ‘The Muppets’ starring as the owners….Chris Smalling stars as the ‘give away man’….Patrice Evra as ‘the lost total interest man’ ….Cleverley plays the role of ‘team clown’….The plot…’How adversity can be turned into a farce’……..Play Wellbeck in midfield….(what must Fletcher think of that.)…..Rooney knows the saga….Mata….played where he is not as effective…(A Dithering Dave Speciality)……but quite a few firsts achieved…Stoke win…their first in the Premiership against us……Mark Hughes….first ex player to beat us as a manager….But enough of the good news,,,SAF says they will not sack Moyes….that we can still win it…..Should the scousers beat West Brom….we will be 9 points behind them…..My point is this ….should we have bought Mangala, Astori, Reus,Kroos, Drexler, Messi and Ronaldo……All planned signings for the summer according to the Boards PR team…..or propaganda as those of us who know better……Total respect to Charlton’s playing career and SAF’s record……..but even if we got all those players in the summer…..Moyes would still have us finish 8th….The Nightmare continues……with another disjointed team performance…. another inept, inconsistent bunch of crap….and more Whinging from Moyes at the end…..More crap about ‘chances’ missed and bad luck….MOYES THEY HAVE LOST THE WINNING EDGE AND THAT IS DOWN TO YOU…..
    Reply

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  • United winners are NOT. Well said, Dan. Stoke for God’s sake!

  • tonymontanna4united

    Moyes: “We played well today, I don’t know what I have to do to win. We should have won, it was a good performance.”

    He’s had us down as playing well every fucking defeat we’ve had, and it’s been 6 in our last 8 so obviously we’re not playing that well are we Davey :roll:

    There was also this little nugget from his post match press conference:
    “It was our downfall we didn’t score from chances, but must have got to the byline eight, nine times.”

    Fuck me, if he has really said that then I’m genuinely speechless.
    I mean we can all see that getting it out wide is his one and only game plan, but to actually come out with this BS publically is just flabbergasting.
    If he genuinely thinks running down the flanks equates to chances and good football then I’m sorry, he’s had enough time, I’d be giving him his p45 tonight before he can bring this team down anymore.

  • joke just joke but i tell you what by time Moyes is finished with this club it would take 15 years to get back what we lost

  • Good analysis Dan. I just don’t see things getting any better until Moyes is gone. Moyes is a square peg in a round hole at Utd, and worse, he’s doing his best to make the players the same.

  • Utterly disgusted – Been doing my absolute best to stay positive and support the decisions of the club, board and hate to say it, manager…and there I go, getting my spirits pummeled again. Atrocious display of tactics, we got beat by their midfield because Tom Cleverley was busy preparing himself for his real role http://www.featurepics.com/FI/Thumb300/20070702/Dancing-GMO-Chicken-Seated-Oven-369163.jpg and a lack of a real enforcer to hold up the ball. Don’t blame the players – blame management for not dealing with the shortcomings and the manager for constantly playing people out of position. Why doesn’t anyone on the coaching staff look at statistics and then decide who plays?? Oh right – that is probably a bit too much work for the type of salaries they get. We’ll be lucky to finish in 7th this year at this rate…

  • Well that was a monumental screw-up!!! I am blisteringly furious. Ranting time.

    WARNING: EXPLICIT CONTENT BELOW!

    How the fucking fuck fuck is Stoke a football team in the Premier League. They are fucking neanderthals made up of the dregs of Liverpool and Man City and that douche-bag Adams needs his knees capped for being a complete fuck-bag and scoring two goals to add insult to literal injury. We lost against the chubby retard from back of the bus in parts because we allowed them to push us over like pussies and our only half-neanderthal Jones got injured by Stoke’s wrecking crew, which left us weak on the field. Only Rafael showed guts when confronting fuck-face Adams.

    Now, on to the idiot Moyes. Over the last two years we have learned a couple things:
    1) Going to Stoke means we will get pushed, shoved, and kicked. Expect at least one injury.
    2) Smalling at RB is shit!
    3) Cleverley is shit!
    4) Young is shit!
    What does baby-genius Moyes do? He decides to play all of them at once. Whoopti-fucking-doo-da!! How do you expect a positive result with Young and Cleverley on the pitch at the same fucking time!!! With Moyes resting his illogical faith in Young and Cleverley, we are still in the game. Then Jones get cocked up and what does Moyes do?? Brings on Welbeck and shifts him out wide, shifts Rooney to midfield and fucks with the entire team formation, leaving a void up front from Rooney’s departure. Why was Fletcher not put in instead of Welbeck?? Why would you (besides changing the fucking lineup every single game!) re-shuffle the team during a game like that?!?!? Ok, Mata and RvP manage to overcome our addiction to extra wide play and through a central pass equalize early in 2nd half. Did Moyes notice that Mata in the center can actually create fucking chances with the ball and support!!!! NO! The Scottish Boy-Wonder keeps watching United try to go out wide on every fucking opportunity with the ball. Rest of the half we manage to avoid any meaningful chances from wide play and the only interesting opportunities comes from central play with Mata as the fulcrum. However, the loss of Rooney from up front (as he defends corners and tracks back) leaves us toothless. What a great tactic!!!

    Congratulations, Moyes, you know how to fuck up on command. If in need of a goal, surely Clevelery is the man “who cannot hit a barn-door when standing in fucking front of it”, but he is an English National team player so surely he is of United quality. Congratu-fucking-lations. Playing the nitwit Cleverley instead of practically anyone who was shipped out of United (barring Anderson) is the move of a fucking lunatic. How was Januzaj benched over Cleverley?? Welbeck was piss poor all game and cannot handle competition from RvP and Rooney… did he manage a single quality touch on the ball?

    Can’t wait until next game when we try some new-age formation of Lunacy that Moyes read on RedRants.com or Managing Football Clubs for Dummies. Sunderland and Stoke have shown how easily we get beaten, I could do better than Moyes right now. In fact, having no manager right now would be better.

    Gimme another game and show that Moyes is not fucking blind to the quality we have with Mata center and Januzaj, Rooney, Kagawa, Chicharito, or RvP in support. EVERYONE can see it… Moyes is blind. I am angry.

    Liverpool win. Everton come from behind. Tottenham draw. Chelsea and City will take points off each other and Moyes cannot muster enough Oomph to bring player up a notch. We lost the golden chance to stay relevant this season. Fuck me!

    I have nothing left for Moyes. One more league loss this season and I completely chant for him to get the hell out of here. I fear it will come sooner rather than later…I wonder when Fergie gives up on him…

    • @Opti: That’s a really emotionally charged post. I understand your frustration. I’ve been calling for Moyes’ head since December but sadly I get called plastic for doing so.
      Honestly I don’t think Moyes should be that happy that we signed Mata. If the team continues to fail, it’s only going to build more pressure on him and expose him for the tactically inept, clueless man he is. I’m feeling Moyes’ days are at the club are numbered.

      • @Bull: I am sorry, but my emotions could not be left out. I am not the Saint of Jaywire who can separate his emotions from his analysis. If I didn’t have my kids watching the game with me, I would have smashed my living room… so furious. Thank you RedRants for being my outlet today… I needed it! Watching Zaha’s assists just set me off… and reading Moyes’ comments just blew me up…

    • @Opti: It shouldn’t suprise anybody that this clown puts at least 2 of the most useless players at the club on the pitch at the same time (CLeverley, Young, Valencia). But his biggest mistake is contiuously playing to holding midfielders (regardless of who they are) and asking them to sit in our own half all game. Nobody up in support of the front 2 at all, even at 1-0 or 2-1 down. Shambles

    • If were even remotely open to playing through the middle – then why bench Kagawa (pre-Mata) or sign mata?…these guys make a living linking up with strikers and all you really need is service from the guys behind him – ie getting the ball from the defense into midfield through an enforcer who can pass, no not Carrick. But no, let’s have young out wide who can’t dodge a parked car and TC#23 who can’t hold up the ball, make a pass further than 6 yards and falls over the minute he sniffs someone around him. – can’t wait till Olympiakos rip us apart in the chmps league…and what happens next? let’s see – players get disgruntled, marquee signings avoid us like the plague and exits become abundant…ARGH..somebody do something to stop the bleeding NOW!!!

      • @Nate: @Sean: If Olympiakos rips us apart that would be hilarious and a massive achievment for Olympiakos. Believe me, I live in Greece, greek league sucks and so does Olympiakos. They have two good players (Mitroglou who was bought by Fulham and the goalkeeper) but the rest of the team sucks, especially their defense and CM. And even Mitroglou is not ready for EPL. If it is for Moyes to leave, then I would be glad to see us losing from them.

        • @Warzycha: Isn’t Olympiakos’ goalkeeper Roy Carroll? The buffoon who competed with Tim Howard for United’s #1? The buffoon who gave up a goal against Tottenham from midfield (but was saved by inept refereeing)?

          If he is the best at Olympiakos AND we lose, I will lose it…

        • @Warzycha: Their goalkeeper is Roberto (Jimenez) and he kept them alive in many Champions League matches, till Mitroglou got clear chances and bagged them in with ease and confidence. That’s all what Olympiakos is.

    • @Opti:

      Top Top post.

      I thought i was the only one about to blow my lid. One more loss this season (which will happen – to play Man C, Arsewipes, Scousers, everton, Newcastle ….haha!) its embarrassing isnt it!! And i too will be calling for this prick to leave.

      Give him Messi, ROnaldo and Neymar and we’d still go for a one nil win.

      He is a dinosaur of a manager. Fergie got this HORRIBLY wrong. Worst and possibly the most catastrophic decision he has ever ever made.

      Trouble is, there is now no one on that board i would trust to get in the right man. SAF is living in the 1970′s. Football is a truelly global game now. Managers come and go. If players are good enough from the youth they will play.

      i am genuinely worried that this situation is only going to get worse.

  • “I don’t know what we have to do to win.”
    — David Moyes after losing to Stoke. Taken out of context, but just as damning. If you are asking this question in public, what are you wondering about in private.

    Moyes has lost it. Game over.

  • We are a shambles….I’d love to see the numpties (REDRICH BEING NUMBER 1) I was arguing with the other day defend todays performance. THIS IS NOT THE PLAYERS FAULT!!! MOYES IS USELESS!!! That squad, with the exception of Cleverley, Valencia and Young, are easily good enough to beat the likes of Stoke, Swansea, Cardiff, West Brom, etc etc…but we are getting dominated by them because of the ineptitude of Moyes. Sitting back, trying not to lose, rather than going out to try and win is the cause of the problems. I said Mata wouldn’t be on the ball enough today in Moyes’ system. We are a shambles and it’s the fans that keep trying to give diplomatic holier-than-though supportive statements that are just as much to blame as anything than else. Moyes isn’t good enough, never will be. Simple….and just to point out another thing I was lambasted for re me saying Zaha should’ve been given his chance over Young and Valencia….he had a blinder for Cardiff today and got an assist within 8 mins of being on the pitch so stick that up your “Moyes sees him everyday in training so knows better than you” pipes and smoke it.

  • “Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win” – Sun Tzu, The Art of War.
    It is looking more and more likely that we have replaced the former with the latter

  • Sooooo, we can all agree that buying ONLY Mata was a disaster?

    Because its almost like this side has huge gaping holes, and Mata closed none of them, and all the positions we absolutely needed, we didn’t get.

    And can we agree no corner is going to be turned?

    And last of all, that no miracle is going to happen in summer.

    • @Ben:
      “Sooooo, we can all agree that buying ONLY Mata was a disaster?”
      — No it was not a disaster. His record-smashing transfer was the best way to put a measure on Moyes’ performance. He has now spend 60 million pounds and is in 7th (or 8th) with near-zero chance of Top 4. In anyone’s book that is a manager under pressure. He has come much closer to the axe due to Mata signing, so a “disaster” I do not call Mata, unless you are Moyes :(

      The rest I agree with, unless Moyes switches the next game and learns instantly… CENTRAL FOOTBALL, QUICK LINK-UP PLAY. Wide-play is obsolete today, and idiotic with Kagawa and Mata in the team.

    • @Ben: maybe we just bought mata to show nike that we going to buy class players so we can get a better deal with them or with adidas

    • @Ben: Can we all agree that hiring Moyes was a disaster?
      Thats the disaster that really matters.
      Different manager = better results.

  • The most up to date article. I urge you to read it. Do so, every problem is in there. Moyes is all of Fergie’s problems repeating. And just remember how Fergie was unable to adapt into 433 and 4231 tactics. He was funny the first years he tried to do so.

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1279039-man-uniteds-decline-how-united-have-regressed-tactically-since-queiroz#sthash.7LIDU24c.dpuf

    • @Warzycha: I read the article. Brilliant!

      • @Karl: Almost all my thoughts in just one article. I only disagree that 6-1 loss by City shows lack of defensive organisation. It was just a fucking great moment for City and massive loss for United because the players lost their composure in the last minutes of the game and instead of scoring they kept being beaten all over the pitch.

    • @Warzycha: I have been saying the exact thing since two years before that very article. I cannot begin to let you understand the crap I got from guys like Redrich and Grognard. I’m not some celestial geinus. No. I’m a massive fan of football and tactics are my daily meals. It’s very difficult for an average fan to get the implications of tactics because the average fan watches almost exclusively,their own team. I watch so much football I should honestly get paid for the enthusiasm. I watch,in nearly every week,at least a game in the Bundesliga,La Liga,Serie A and EPL. I sit down to watch teams like Schalke and Wolfsburg go head to head. I watch Napoli and Genoa,I can watch Real Sociedad vs Espanyol. I have done this for many years and there has been a telling distinction since 2009. The whole football world has been playing in a certain direction and Manchester United all by ourselves have completely taken our own path in solitude. In fact,we have time travelled in a most spectacular way back to the very early 90s. The purchase of Valencia was one of the final steps to complete this cycle. Followed by Ashley Young and completed in perfection by the fatalistic hiring of David Moyes for the next 6 years to comfortably take United into 2020 as masters of by that time 80s football.

      My biggest fear is this; it is going to take a miraculous turn of fateful events for United to escape from this very very deep nightmare. I hate being right in things like this. I would have loved it if I was talking about Chelsea and Mourinho,the two football entities I just can’t stand,but these are damning but accurate reports of Manchester United. There’s nothing joyful for me there. But I said it at the very beginning of the season. The way Kagawa is integrated into this team would be the defining moment for David Moyes. I said it back in September and most of October when Kagawa was struggling with Moyes’ tactics and instructions that no matter who we buy,Moyes has to go. Now he did himself no favors by buying Mata because he is going to be the one that exposes him in the most glaring way. I’m amazed at how people can doubt the talents of a player voted the Bundesliga’s Best Player in the season prior to his arrival. This is a guy who outperformed players like Ribery,Robben,Lewandowski,Schweinsteiger over a full season and was so devastating in his first season in Germany,that he would declare before derbies that he would score at least two goals and actually do it. For a player coming straight into the Bundesliga and straight into the first team of Dortmund,from a Second Division team in freakin Japan to achieve all that is a witness to incredible levels of confidence and ability. In all honesty,even if he would have struggled in England,just how low can that get to the point when you are behind a fit Valencia and Ashley Young? All this just shows a serious level of denial with most United fans. We are rubbish technically and have been for a great many years and we should be banned forthwith from employing talented modern day players by FIFA and FIFPro until we fix our technical crisis. Berbatov is not to blame,Nani is not to blame,Kagawa is not blame and in a few weeks I’m pretty sure I’m going to be defending Mata when the GGMU fanatics start calling him useless and questioning why Mourinho let him go so easily.

      Moyes is still rubbish and that’s a fact

      • @Jay Wire: I’ve been saying in this blog during summer 2013 (I appear mostly on transfer periods) that if you want Rooney away you must have a massive change in your CM and firstly get rid of Carrick. The reason? We have no ball winning midfielder, we have no box to box midfielder and because of these facts, all the team has to move around the static Carrick (which didn’t happen the year and wont’ happen under Moyes) so as the ball can keep moving and Carrick’s accurate passes can be received with ease. The only one player constantly moving, was Rooney. … that’s what I said in summer 2013.

        And we come to December where everybody said “let’s try Rooney closer to midfield”. NO! FUCK NO! That was the excuse people used when they wanted to shoot him out of the team. People said “he doesn’t score goals”. Yes, you fucking cunt! Cause he comes even behind the mid-line so as to build an attack and he is all alone! He runs till he dies in every game, so he has no clear mind or fresh legs upfront and his fat won’t help.

        That’s what I was saying back then and that’s what happened in December.

        Then, January came in and I tried to speak again in this blog. I made this comment, which was close to the opinions I expressed during summer.
        http://redrants.com/adnan-and-dat-guy-to-the-rescue/comment-page-1/#comment-273079

        Look what everyone else says since we bought Mata. That we should stop overlapping and wide play and change to a 4-2-3-1.
        BUT, that’s what we could do by using Kagawa in the supposed No.10 role!!!! Even before Mata we DID have the creative and mobile players. It’s just that we don’t have the coaches!!!

        P.S. : Mata lifts the ball over defenders and behind defenders. Kagawa is even more modern than this. Mata has some classic no.10 qualities. Kagawa needs a formation where attackers move all the time.
        P.s.2: I know you understand me cause since you came back and started commenting I saw a person with a footballing mind. Even if you are not that capable with the ball to your feet, you understand the game.

        • @Warzycha: Yes. We have the modern attacking players that should most definitely play EVERYDAY ahead of Ashley Young and Valencia. But those two are the stars of THE MOYES SHOW. His most potent weapons. I keep saying and I never tire of it. Kagawa (Bundesliga POtY),Rooney,RvP,Mata and even Nani for crying out loud,are or more accurately,the last 4,the most creative EPL players in the last 3 or 4 seasons. At his best,before injury,Nani was joint top with David Silva as the two most creative(chances created,assists and accurate passes in attacking areas)players in the league. Then came RvP at Arsenal,who was the assist king in the league in his final season. Rooney was in the top 5. Mata topped the most creative player list last season I believe. Clearly,if you have even 3 of those players in one team,there should be no way any other team in the league could create as much as you. Also it’s clear that these are the players your team should be centred around fr
          om day 1. Simple. Kagawa,Rooney Van Persie as a combo do not scream “CROSS,CROSS,CROSS”. Even the most casual follower of football is aware of that. So just how clueless is Moyes? Well 100% of each and every person that has posted a comment on this page is more than capable of coming up with an infinitely better line up and better tactics than Moyes. That’s how clueless

      • @Jay Wire:”that he would declare before derbies that he would score at least two goals and actually do it”
        Now that’s the Cantona’ish arrogance that I’m looking for. He made a similiar statement here…”just give me the ball. I’ll make things happen”.

        THAT is what we need and ahould have built the team around. I doubt he will make statements like that anytime soon? :(
        Pity…likely to go down as another player whose career we wrecked.

  • Sack David Moyes at whatever cost, it will be money will spent in the long term. Whoever gave him a 5 year contract, Fergie or Woddward, think of the club rather than your own ego. Manchester United will always be bigger than you, be a man, admit a mistake and let’s all move on.
    #Moyesout

    • tonymontanna4united

      @Stephen: Unfortunately Stephen, it seems there are indeed some people who do genuinely think of themselves as bigger than the club.
      I remember just last season an article was posted on here about Fergie becoming just that.
      Myself, Moscow and the like said it then, that Fergie had indeed become bigger than the club, and there was going to be a whole host of problems to come because of that.
      And now unfortunately we see some of them coming home to roost.
      I get the feeling with Fergie still pulling the strings that even if he did come to the conclusion that Moyes isn’t cut out for this club, he’d still give Moyes his vote of confidence even at the expense of our on field fortunes, just so he wouldn’t have to admit he made a cock up picking him in the first place.
      It’s a sad state of affairs, but as Moscow says below, I believe this is only the beginning.
      We’ve got atleast another 18 months of this to come from Moyes, and christ knows how much longer to rebuild and get back to where we were from there.
      It took us 20 years to finally get back to where we belonged before we got Fergie, it’s taken the scousers about the same to start looking a decent side again.
      Don’t bet against it taking us that long too if Fergie keeps putting himself above the club and making what could be a short term transition easily remedied into a long term terminal decline.

  • Signing Juan Mata barely covers the huge cracks that are evident in our team.We still lack that killer instinct SAF took with him,we still sit with a manager who does’nt know his backside from his brains and we still have a squad full of ageing and inept players.It’s crystal clear that Evra isn’t the players he used to be,he let us down today by not marking his man tight enough and delivering poor final balls.Young,what the hell is there to say about a waste of precious money and space.A total loser he is!Lord Cleverley needs to go at the end of the season.All the hype surrounding him was unfounded.He offers nothing to United except mediocrity.i’ve been calling for the return of Shawcross for some time now,hopefully his performance today justifies my opinion.Moyes’ head is still stuck in the dark ages.No amount of money given to him will change that.A dissapointing day at the office for United.

    • @Everton: It was all Fergie’s idea. Coming back to 442 and 4411 wide tactics was Fergie’s idea after Queiroz left. Buying Owen, Valencia and Berbatov were Fergie’s ideas. Hiring Moyes was Fergie’s idea. Young as a winger is Fergie’s idea.

      If we miss Fergie? We do. But that’s because he built a team that can win his way, no other’s way in this fucking planet.

  • The_Philosopher

    I think it is obvious that David Moyes is out of his depth.

    The only reason one would give him more time is because you believe that this manager has it in him to produce better. And given more time and resources he would not only turn it around but would actually bring excellence to the club.

    David Moyes has proved beyond a shadow of doubt that 4-4-2 is all he knows and therefore is too limited to the manager of an elite football club like Manchester United.

    Not sacking David Moyes now can only result in more suffering.

    No serious observer can look at this situation and see a genuine Manchester United manager in David Moyes.

    Moyes Out!!!

  • So Moyes doesn’t know what we have to do to win:
    Step 1) Have more shots on goal than opponent tends to help (6 vs 4 today)
    Step 2) Utilize corners and set pieces more effectively (10 corners today, no chances created)
    Step 3) Don’t play Cleverley or Young.

    That should get us 75% of the way.

    • @Opti: stoke also had 18 fouls to our 7..

      can we get a proper hardman in this team please. feking adam kicked clevers in the face and is he smashed next time he touches the ball? no he takes it down and launches another goal…

      PLAY FUCKING FLETCHER

      • @gator: NO!!!! We need people who can keep the ball and know how to use it….it’s not the 1960′s anymore. Charlie Adam is you’re hardman type and he’s sh1t. He only looked good today because of Moyes’ ineptitude.

        • @Dragon: that is what carrick does and it doesn’t work if players can just push him off the ball. i don’t know what cleverly does anymore :cry: i had high hopes for that kid

  • If you’re looking for a crumb of comfort, look away now.

    We are not even half way on the downward spiral of doom. Sure, we’re midtable and breaking records left, right and centre but believe me when I say these are still the good days. We still have our Champions League status intact by a cotton thread, the brand is retaining its sponsors and we can boast players like Rooney, Mata, RVP and DDG.

    Here is what’s going to happen if Ferguson, Charlton, Moyes and co. are not removed. First, we will miss out on a top 4 place and suffer the ignominy of cancelling our pre-season tour for Europa League qualifiers in the middle of summer. We’ll watch the World Cup, then suffer humiliation in the transfer market as the players who we could have signed turn us down because they don’t want to suffer the same fate as players like Kagawa and Mata, because we don’t play on the biggest stage, because we don’t put our money (or anything else for that matter) where our mouth is and because we’re not even the best destination in Manchester, let alone Europe. I don’t even think Moyes needs 6 years to complete his sick and twisted ‘transition’, when the fans turn on the club and sponsors start pulling out, the vultures will come to feast on our corpse. The Glazers will be chief among them as they mercilessly asset strip and sell off the club, capitalist style (I hope Fergie enjoys that, the Govan champagne socialist that he is) and the media won’t be holding back either. There will be some ugly scenes, so get ready for that.

    As for today’s match, I watched a car crash happening in +90 mins slow motion. Let’s be honest, our fate was sealed when Welbeck replaced Phil Jones, Rooney moved into defensive midfield and Carrick partnered Smalling at centre half 8-O I have to say though, it was wonderful to see Mata feed RVP for that clinical finish, a sequence that we should saviour as a rare treat every now and then. Like a bad dream, I can only remember fragments, but yeah… Charlie Adam dominated Manchester United. I don’t even have the energy to elaborate on that, but I brought myself to listen to what Moyes had to say and he did not disappoint:

    “I don’t know what we have to do to win.”

    :-x :-x :(

    • @Moscow: While it may seem impossible to beat your assessment for doom,I have an even bleaker image of things to come than that and I still find it very optimistic. It’s very hard for me to be honest. Very,very hard. I wish sincerely,I had always been a casual fan who has the luxury of delusion because they have no idea how the rest of the football world is operating. You just go about believing this is just a rough patch,hopefully we get Gundogan and Toni Kroos in the summer(insert fantastical first XI diagrams)and we get the treble after beating the crap out of top teams(take that Barca for Rome and Wembley). I was one of the only people desperate to see Ferguson go because he had been taking us backwards technically every year. But he had his qualities I guess. He could keep RvP free scoring even with crossing football. He had that intangible motivational quality which was not good enough unfortunately against the very top teams because they rely on player quality and technical innovation in ascending order. But his tutelage was enough for us to keep simple 30 year records intact against the rubbish teams like Stoke. A loss to Norwich was possible but extremely catastrophic in Fergie’s days. It was unacceptable and Norwich would celebrate for a lifetime and engrave such a victory in their pathetic history of irrelevance. But then came this David MOyes from the depths of the Wilderness of Mediocrity. I really hoped Ferguson’s resignation would usher in a new era of hope for United. A new innovative manager I believed,would initiate the process for United’s modernisation which would gradually lead to a restructuring from the youth set up,right up to the first team. This would lead to a development of an actual football philosophy instead of this buy Kagawa,Young,Carrick,Jones,Valencia,Chicharito,RVP,Berbatov. Randomly recruited players with no complimentary attributes who are randomly thrown onto the pitch in batches of eleven,every week to cross and receive crosses all day. No technical leadership,direction or philosophy. No hope

      • @Jay Wire:

        This team is stone dead. There is nothing to build on. The soundtrack of this season is the sickening sound of a body hitting the floor.

        And it’s not going to get better. There will be no summer miracle. There will be no corner turned. For the forseeable future, this team is finished.

        The biggest problem, is this mentality that we can’t and shouldn’t make big changes. Everything in baby steps. Baby steps tactically. Baby steps bringing in new players. Everything in tiny, fruitless, mindlessly conservative baby steps.

        Did I hear people talking about a Moyes revolution??????

        My gawd….

        What this club needs is a fire like the one that destroyed Rome, to rebuild completely, to rebuild this team in every aspect. This team is dead. Build a new one. That’s the only option. Rebuild it from every angle. Why the fuck…. are we trying to fit players into a system that is not working at all??? We’re committed tactically to a system that is shit, that scares no one, that is utterly backwards. But that cleansing fire, the clears the deadwood for new life, it won’t come, and this team is finished.

        • @Ben: its not the team thats dead. Its our football philosopy thats dead. Thats why we need a managerial change before we can attempt any rebuilds.

  • Some of the most successful people in the world have the biggest egoes, they have enermous self belief and when they are wrong they will do everything to prove they are right. Alex Ferguson falls in this category! for 4 to 5 seasons under him the whole world knew united had a midfield problem but he disagreed and was determined to prove the world wrong, so season after season that part of the team got worse and worse but he was a genuis he won trophies even went to cl finals with teams that did NOT have midfield ( applaud). So in a way he proved critics wrong but as we all can see he definatly was more wrong than right, after him the cracks got even bigger and now the midfield needs NOT JUST ONE OR TWO players but a COMPLETE revamp. I say all that to say Ferguson’s big ego and self belief will never sack Moyes he has to be proven right even if it means fucking up the club in the long run

    • @Sean: Yes, and he went on head to head against Barcelona, with Carrick and Giggs against Xavi – Iniesta. And in 2009 he had Carrick Anderson Giggs head to head against Xavi – Iniesta – Busquets. Fun to watch, right? And we got beat hard cause instead of playing defensively, Fergie thought : why defend, we are faster, we can keep the ball better. …which never was the case for our players against Xavi – Iniesta.
      And still, he wouldn’t buy a midfielder. A midfield with no interchanging and no defenders. A midfield around a static Carrick and co. Sad. Just sad.

  • I just have to say this MOYES IS A BIG FOOL.
    I have never seen a player that continuously gets himself injured like Phil donkey Jones. The way he moves on the pitch is so awkward that I expect him to get injured whenever he goes for a tackle or arial battle. In short he looks awkward in a football kit.

    • @slowshow: thats why I said playing him in midfield like we do lately will be catastrophic for him. He’s too wild for that. He reminds a lot of Allan Smith when converted to midfield role. He WILL get injured a lot unless we start grooming him properly for CB (with priper coaching).

  • @Jay Wire

    is a genuis tho

    @Warzycha:

    Yea in 2009 he tried to blame anderson for the lost but the truth was carrick supposed to control our midfield dictating the game and that but we all know he doesnt like pressure so he kept giving the ball over and over again hec he did not even want the ball that night and that season was giggs first in CM/AM but against a top team like Barcelona he was lost, all those factors combined contributed to Ando flopping that night. Then at Wembley Ferguson was like yea we know what went wrong last time (he still doesnt know) we are ready we have practice our tactics against the RESERVES lol practice vs reserves to face Barcelona okay, 15 mns in the game 1 nil down Giggs is already tired pushed him on the left three lungs Park moved central ran all night chasing shadows poor lad, But the funniest moment about that night was the duel between Valancia and Abidal lmao the few times Toni V got to touch the ball controlled it looked around to see what he’s gonna do next everytime he looked down the ball would be gone i will never forget how at one point he looked around opened his arms as if to say wtf happening here lol (mate great players always know what to do before they even receive the ball just ask Paul Scholes). Morning after that humiliation Ferguson told us about how the club will work toward getting on Barcelona’s level bought young (wrong direction) promoted Clevs ( i was excited bout that till i found out against Ajax at OT that he was limited) anyway since then united have gone even more backward and with Moyes its even more fucked up.

    ps in his book Ferguson dissed Wenger suggesting that arsenal have lots of midfielders who are all creatives and play the same. This is how you know he never came near understanding how to build a team to match Barcelona

    • @Sean: Fergie has one talent in unlimited amount : getting people to do what he wants, whatever this is, whatever the cost. He is totally committed and makes other people around him be committed. That’s what made him top manager.

      The reason Fergie was choosing Giggs and Scholes over new players or academy players was that they were true soldiers. No matter what, they would do what he said. He trusted them more than anyone else. Whenever somebody would disagree with him (becks, ruud, keane, rooney) he would make him suffer and make him leave the team. He couldn’t take any risks, as he did with Veron (that must have hurt him so much). So, he chose his teams like this : first my true soldiers, my treble winners, then my favorites and last but not least, all the others. And that’s a short story about how we never replaced Keane-Scholes duo. We really never did. Only Carrick made it but he was all alone. It was the consequence of hierarchy and no risk approach. Two values of a willy old person.

      This willy old person made it to CHL finals, two times. But you know you can’t beat Xavi-Iniesta going head to head, playing attacking football with midfielders like ours. The alternative to passing and attacking is lungs and defensive teamwork. Carrick + Giggs + Ando (2009) would never beat them. Same goes for Carrick + Giggs + Rooney (2011 final). So, the story with our midfield is connected with our European medals.

      As for Clev : The only reason we need Cleverley is because of CHL rules. (number of home grown players in the squad we register). He can be fourth or fifth CM choice, but never second or third.

  • There is ultimately one man responsible for our current shambles – SAF:

    He promised to leave his successor a team equipped to challenge for the next 5 years.

    He promised us there was no value in the market but not to worry, we had a squad as good as ’99

    He promised us that the Glazers were great owners.

    He told us we should get behind his choice of next manager,(otherwise he’d be made to look a fool).

    And, he told us the world was flat :lol: … the list goes on.

    In reality, since we were humbled by Barca, we have for the most part bought mediocrity, hired mediocrity and promoted mediocrity from the youth team.

    The chickens are well and truly coming home to roost.

  • Well today my boiling point reached the red crisis level and my head went all Chernobyl. Too all who know and remember me on this blog you will remember that I left rather abruptly just at the beginning of the season due to differences with the moderator of this blog as well as the matter of having insulted the frail sensibilities of some members due to my specific style of negative prose. I don’t care to dig up old nonsense so I am back to take part in this blog due to the interesting and volatile banter that is presently permeating from here. Like a vulture hovering over a dead carcass, I have occasionally looked in on the blog and have noticed many more negative comments showing up about our beloved club, David Moyes, Fergie, the Glazer’s etc, than ever before. Well welcome to my world. I know it stinks but as many of you know, I was predicting this kind of thing well before David Moyes took over the managing duties.

    Four years ago to be exact I began to see the sore fester and become cancerous. The day Ronaldo was sold and the club did very little to properly replace him while the Glazer’s stuffed their greedy pockets and continued to allow the debt to hang over this club like the Ancient Mariner’s albatross was the beginning of the end.

    From that point on I bitched and whined and cried wolf claiming that United were headed for Hades. The Glazer’s were raping and pillaging the club and not putting very much money towards buying world class talent so that we could compete with the Manchester City’s, Chelsea’s, Real Madrid’s, Barcelona’s and Bayern Munich’s of the world. 2009-10 for me was the beginning of what today looks like the devolution of Manchester United. 2007-08 was when we reached our peak. When we won the Premier League and the Champions League while also possessing the best player in the world and a great core of young players and veterans that all played well together thanks to Fergie, but mostly to the clubs real tactical coordinator of the time, Carlos Queiroz. Queiroz may not have build a solid resume for himself as a manager but as a coach and tactician, there were few better. Fergie relied on his brilliance as he kept the club up with all the new schemes and tactical nuances that were entering the modern game. In many ways we still played Fergie’s old school football but we were also adaptable and capable of changing our style, pace and shape on the move without skipping a beat.
    Then Queiroz left for Real Madrid and Mike Phelan took over. Many of you know or remember my views of Phelan. I considered him a complete muppet tactically and still do but compared to the clown act presently assisting David Moyes with squad preparation and tactics, I now consider Phelan as well as Rene Meulensteen bloody savants. Neither were in the same stratosphere or calibre as Queiroz but in hindsight, they weren’t completely useless. Welcome then the Three Musketeers Stooges, Steve Round, Jimmy Lumsden and Phil Neville. And like the Musketeers, the club was missing a D’artagnan so Moyes brought along his own goalkeeper coach Chris Woods. Gone were Phelan, Meulensteen and for me most disturbing was the exit of goalkeeper coach Luke Steele who had worked wonders with David De Gea and who also had a very strong friendship and bond with United’s #1 keeper.

    Suffice it to say the total overhaul of backroom staff has been a disaster for United. Fergie’s staff may have been old school and rather antiquated but they got the job done for the most part as well as understanding their manager’s requirements from game to game. Fergie himself was never a tactical genius but he was and always be the greatest man manager of all time and his presence on the pitch ensured that United were one point ahead of the opposition even before the kickoff. Opposing managers, opposing players, referees all respected him, feared him and were intimidated by him. Because of this, he got way more out of his side and less from the opponent. Referees feared his wrath and because of that we had more breaks and calls go our way and Fergie Time became a hard born tradition on game day. All that is gone now.
    Like I said earlier, the demise began in 2009-10. We lost Ronaldo and replaced him with Antonio Valencia. Our team got older and more set in the Fergie way. The club had become over dependent on Wayne Rooney, Ryan Giggs and Paul Scholes. Fergie was reluctant to really go out and buy big or to change the club’s style or dynamic while being reluctant to address our central midfield needs. It was clear after getting thrashed in two straight Champions League finals by Barcelona that Fergie was not only set in his ways, but his stubborn sense of denial continued to blind him to the glaring weaknesses that were becoming evident on the pitch as well as behind the scenes. His key players were getting old and in the case of Rooney, unhappy. His coaching staff had no miracle cure or clue on how to go about beating clubs of the calibre of Barcelona or Bayern. Above all, it seemed from mine and many others perspective, that the club would not under any circumstances spend more than 30 to 35 million on players per year. Paltry in this day and age when the best players are going for higher than 60 million. And if you never spent the money one year, it didn’t carry over to the next. Then another crushing blow occurred last season when David Gill announced his resignation. Now I didn’t love Gill as I accused him of being a puppet of the Glazer’s many times. However, not in dispute was his reputation in the game and his ability to negotiate successfully with clubs to get players. I knew properly replacing him was going to be just as tough as finding Fergie’s replacement.

    Like many I cried and I bitched about the evil Glazer’s and to this day I blame them for a lot of what is happening and will happen. But few are willing or able to point a finger of blame at perhaps the guiltiest party among them all, Sir Alex Ferguson. Yes I am guilty of being a blasphemous prick by saying this but Fergie’s stubbornness and unwillingness to change, to adapt to the modern game while making the necessary changes to the squad to ensure long term success for his successor is at the root cause of what is happening now.

    Many will react and say that last year we won the League by eleven points. The harsh reality for anyone still wearing blinders is that we never won the league, our competitors gifted it to us. Fergie saw that the top competition was doing little to improve while suffering internal turmoil and his only goal before retiring was to win the league one more time and go out a winner while avenging the events of the final day of the previous season. He knew that a quick fix by the name of Robin van Persie was the answer to his needs. A 30 year old star who was good value for what Fergie wanted, to further stamp his authority and solidify his legacy with one more triumph. Meanwhile City, Chelsea and Arsenal all had their own troubles. None of them were really going to threaten a disciplined, experienced Ferguson run team over a long season. Europe was never a realistic goal because Fergie knew that Barca, Bayern and Madrid could not be beat. He was right. So it was all or nothing for another Premier League run.

    I knew as soon as Mourinho returned to Chelsea and Pellegrini showed up at City that the joy ride I had been on for the past twenty years was going to come to a screeching end. Then Arsenal signed Ozil and our new manager and Edward Woodward turned the summer into an absurd farce with their idiotic, naive and amateur hour attempt to lure two Barcelona stars who never in their wildest dreams ever entertained the concept of plying their trade for a David Moyes run Manchester United. The confidence game doubling as a clown act continued as we were linked with player after player that we had no chance of signing yet doing nothing to get players that did want to sign with us. At the end of it all Moyes had to settle for a last minute desperation move named Marouane Fellaini. He had all summer yet the only player willing to come to United was one of his former players at Everton. Fucking sad and a precursor for what was to come. That’s what happens when your manager hasn’t got the pedigree to attract the world’s elite. Don’t be fooled by the Mata buy. Mata was desperate to play so that he could be considered for Spain’s World Cup team. Otherwise I doubt he would have signed with United

    Fergie chose David Moyes, not the Glazer’s. Sure the Glazer’s probably never wanted an ego and big spender like Mourinho but I doubt they were all that impressed with Moyes resume. Fergie wanted him for a number of reasons. First he wanted to protect his legacy and the last thing he wanted is for the best coaches in the game (be it Mourinho or Guardiola) game to come to United and turn everything upside down and deconstruct everything he had built. Mourinho’s ego is immense and there is no way he would tolerate this present squad and their style of play. Guardiola has gone to Treble winning Bayern Munich and completely changed the way they play as well as messing with the makeup of their squad with key additions and tweaks to the positions. You see that is what confident self assured managers do. They don’t live in the past and they have no time to respect the outgoing manager and maintain the status quo. They are independent thinkers and they do things their way. Well Fergie was not going to have any of that, even if he was chummy with both men.

    Fergie wanted a quiet, humble yes man to come in, bring in some new ideas but overall, maintain the status quo and ensure that his presence never overshadowed that of the outgoing manager. Fergie’s ego and bias dictated that a Scotsman would replace him and a man who was deeply rooted in the British game and not the continental one. One with old school values and old school thinking. All this never guaranteed success for United. What it did do was guarantee Fergie’s legacy and that his aura and presence would always be felt. Fergie knew that fans and the media were fickle and that if the new manager brought with him instance success and a personality to boot, Fergie’s legacy and deeds would fade away in the distance with Sir Matt and Sir Bobby. So ultimately, Fergie’s last contribution was a selfish one designed to guarantee his greatness and force all of us to never be able to forget him simply because the new manager was set up to fail and was not up for the job to begin with.

    That’s just my opinion and five months ago I would have been berated and insulted for my comments. In fact I was and my statements left me with no other choice but to depart. Today though I join the largest choir in the world. The Fans of Man Utd Bleeding Hearts Club Band. And the legion of miserable supporters grows with every loss. And like the Grim Fucking Reaper I am back to remind all of you that I said this would happen. I predicted it and I’d like to say I told you so, but unfortunately the present pain and humiliation I feel somehow makes it all seem worthless. Almost as worthless as our club, the manager, his staff and especially the owner who now get what I was saying years ago about destroying the brand by not spending and thus destroying the gravy train they depended on.

    Moyes out, his coaching staff out, Glazer’s out and don’t even get me started on the squad. If it were up to me the only players who would survive my purge are Mata, Januzaj, RVP and Chicharito. The rest are either overrated, too old or just plain rubbish. This club requires a major overhaul and I seriously believe we will see it happen. Moyes and the Glazer’s have in half a season as well as last summer’s transfer window done so much harm to the allure and brand of Manchester United that only new ownership with a world class manager in place can even attempt to repair the damage. How many world class players will want to come next summer to play for a declining club who is out of the Champions League and who has David Moyes as manager? I said this the day he was hired because I knew in my heart that this was going to turn out bad. But even I, the King of Negatosis never expected it to get this bad. United being outclassed by Charlie Adam was the final straw for me. Manchester United RIP. Despite the club, I hope you are all doing well. Now I go back into hibernation singing my favourite song “I Wanna Be Like Juergen Klopp”.

    • @Grognard: You never did say how you think about Cleverly, Smalling and Kamikaze Phil :) ,but perhaps you’re right, the bomb needs to be dropped on everyone.
      The full range of what I have spoken about over the past 5 years is now coming home to roost.
      I don’t care about Moyes or his Everton cronies, they are irrelevant to the fact that we have a team assembled from cheap headliners and underachieving youngsters.
      Ronaldo left with a huge bounty and this fucking club pocketed the money and bought Valencia. The table was set then and we are still trying to serve the same old leftovers that are clearly not up to the task.
      I do think that that Moyes will try to spend some of the Glazer money on better players and that, if allowed to happen, will make a difference.
      I do feel sorry for his situation and do wonder how many more of the losses he can sustain. He was never my first choice, but then a new manager was never as important as new players from my perspective.

      I hope you can carry on here, because I’m just about done with the mob mentality that has taken over this blog.
      The best commentator is the one that can fire the most venom at Moyes, so it seems.

      Good to hear from you mate!

      • @Redrich: Red, your kind words are always appreciated. To be honest, today’s result just about gave me an embolism. It was the final straw. I had stayed away from the blog a long while and really wasn’t planning on returning because I wanted to show some restraint and humility and not return spewing venom and telling everyone I told you so.

        But this team no longer just frustrates me or disappoints. No, instead the club bloody well angers me. I am infuriated by the sheer epic incompetence that trickles from the top down like an overflowing toilet. I could no longer stay silent. I need to vent my spleen. For almost 40 years I have shared a love affair with this club that is so many thousands of miles away from my home. I now feel like I wished I lived on the moon due to shame and embarrassment I feel.

        I’m never considered myself a fair weather fan but then again I have never been no for having masochistic tendencies nor loyally following losers or cellar dwellers. And that is exactly where this club is headed unless drastic measures are taken.

        No other sports franchise in the world tolerate this kind of fall from grace and not sack their manager, coaching staff and clean house with many players etc etc. But Fergie demands we stick by our new manager. Well with all due respect to the great man, UP YOURS FERGIE! Fergie, You retired and I admire, appreciate and respect everything you’ve done for the club but passing it off to this incompetent muppet from your neighborhood leaves me cold and empty and makes me want to treat you like the wife who betrayed me with another man. You up and left and your parting gift to us was DAVID FUCKING MOYES? For 25 years you gave us access to the penthouse and now that you have left you force us into the outhouse. You mad sure that all of us would be stuck in reverse and always look back to you instead of moving forward with a Jose Mourinho or some other qualified and brilliant manager to latch onto. Well played.

        That Red is just what I feel and how angry I am with Fergie for allowing his arrogance and feeling of protectionism of his legacy to cloud his thinking and saddle Mancunia with this band of bozos from Merseyside. Betrayal and abandonment is what we all should feel. But then again, read Fergie’s book. He is an expert at throwing many who loyally worked hard for him under the bus. Why should we fans get any better. Our reward now is to watch him in the stands at Old Trafford circling Moyes with his eyes like an old vulture waiting to pick his bones dry. I knew this day would come. It sucks to be a United fan but when it’s in your blood, there’s not much one can do about it. :( :( :( :cry: :cry:

      • @Redrich: Strange, you were giving us the Billy Big Bollocks in previous threads for being ‘Moyes haters’ but it seems that latest defeat has changed your tune. What went wrong eh Rich? :oops: :oops: :oops:

      • @Redrich: I like Phil Jones but I do not feel he is starting material right now. I do not fancy Smalling or Cleverley at all as they are amongst a large group of players who are simply not United class. That list comprises of Lindegaard, Fabio, Rafael, Evans, Smalling, Buttner, Cleverley, Fellaini, Young and Welbeck. All these player would go if I were in charge but I am also realistic to know that this will not happen. Players like Rio, Vidic, Giggs, Evra and Fletcher have reached their expiry date. Great servants but well past their prime. Then you have Kagawa, Nani, Valencia, De Gea who are all talented but who seem to be stagnating in a

      • @Redrich: Oops! hit submit by accident. I was saying that Kagawa, De Gea, Valencia and Nani are talented players who have not performed. I’d keep them and would hope a new manager with a plan could get the best out of them. Then there is Wayne Rooney. Clearly a gifted player but I feel he is a cancer to this team with his unhealthy and selfish threats to always want to leave while always complaining about how he is used. If it were up to me I would have sold him abroad two years ago. That leaves Mata, RVP, Januzaj and Chicharito to build around. I love those four players and would love to see how much more a great manager could get out of them.

        Realistically though, I see Kagawa going back to Germany, Nani to Italy. I then see Rafael, Buttner, Rio, Giggs, and Young leaving in the summer. Obviously Giggsy will retire and so too will Rio unless he fashions one more challenge for another club. Bottom line is we need to bring in the kind of player that has edge, confidence and world class talent. Easier said than done.

    • @Grognard:

      I want to apologize by the way. I know you didn’t specifically name me, but I’m going to go ahead and apologize.

      I was about as wrong as it was possible to be. I’ll list some of the, albeit many, things I have been wrong about:

      1) Assumed that Moyes would understand the nature of the challenge, and buy for needed positions
      2) That even failing number 1 on this list, this was a championship squad which would worst case scenario end 4th, even without reinforcements
      3) This was not one I aired on the blog, since i was already losing faith… but that knowing the massive failings in the summer window, that come January we would CERTAINLY buy….

      ugh…. okay, I don’t want to list more.

      Oh, that Fellaini was the piece we were missing in midfield (I may have just thrown up a little saying that)….

      Wow….

      Again, I apologize profusely for the aggressive, angry reaction towards those who predicted doom.

      I could not have been more wrong.

      The correct amount of criticism and alarm warranted by this squad right now is… all of it. There is not too much. All of the panic, all of the anger heading into this season that so many had, you guys were totally right, I was totally wrong.

      By the way, I am very sorry that you were right. I imagine this is cold comfort.

      • @Ben: Don’t sweat it. I have been wrong about things too. I actually thought Fellaini would work out even though I still expected the club to suffer. I hated the selection of Moyes but after the Charity Shield I wanted to support him and felt like we all needed to give him a fair chance. Many of us are guilty of wishful thinking but the fact is that this club has the same players from last year. Last year we won the league,even though the competition was not as good. I never expected us to win it again but I sure as Hell never wanted to believe my own worst case scenario either.

        We can be wrong mate and that’s fine because we aren’t in charge of the club. What is not fine is those who are in charge of the club and our former manager all were wrong in appointing this man to manage this great club because frankly, he wasn’t qualified to do so. Ten mediocre years at Everton is simply not good enough and so I am not some kind of savant for having predicted this doom. Frankly, it was written in stone the day Fergie decided his legacy was more important than the continued success and growth of this great club. It’s tough for all of us to take and to stomach.

        I have a bad taste n my mouth because the biggest prediction I made was that Moyes lack of pedigree and success was going to turn off many world class players from signing with us. I was proven right even before the season started. Right then I knew we were in big trouble because I just knew that many of our players were not going to respond well to Moyes’ 4-4-2 old school football. Yes we got Mata but lets face, it he was desperate to get out of Chelsea. Lets see how lucky we get signing a Kroos, Reus, Gundogan etc come this summer. All those players want success, silverware and the Champions League. Right now I think we are being optimistic about the Europa League.

    • @Grognard: Welcome back.You truly are the voice of reason on this forum.I confess that i was one of the blinded masses who fell dead square into this vile trap of mediocrity that is now Manchester united’s supposed future.i bought into the ‘Moyes is the future’ stock.in fact, i invested everything i had and now i am dead broke.I am miserable when i even think about how poorly our beloved club is performing at such a consistent basis.Never before have i witnessed such a rapid decline at a football club and never did i suspect that it would occur at United.You are right,the season after we sold Ronaldo was the beggining of the end.Owen and Valencia were poor replacements for Ronaldo and Tevez.I know many fans hated Carlos, but he was a hell of a lot better than an injury plagued,over the hill michael owen.The question now truly is,who the hell would want to come to a club that looks destined to scrap for a Europa League playing spot next season?Its a sad state of affairs.The Glazers need to wake up and see the situation for what it is.A ticking time bomb.May man United endure this wretched plague of sorrow we now live through.

      • @Everton: Sad thing is I actually believed this demise would happen under Fergie for the past few years. Not as bad as this but still, I didn’t like what Fergie was doing with the club tactically. I hated the way he was playing players like Rooney out of position and I thought we resembled a cautious, boring and overly conservative team, not the Manchester United of 1994, 1999 or 2008. Gone was the free flowing fast paced attacking and fearlessness. But hey, he had to lower our expectations and he had a club that on paper and on the pitch was not that good and not even close to the best clubs he managed in the past. He had to use that boring style of football to conceal the rot that was happening within.

        The Glazer’s unwillingness to really open up their pocket books was evident and he could not replace Ronaldo and Tevez with a player or players with the money received from their sale. Instead he had to settle for one maybe two players a year that would cost no more than 30 million and worst of all, he had to hold on to useless gits like Anderson, Nani, Young, Cleverley, Evans, Fabio, and others even though they were not of the caliber necessary to beat the likes of Barcelona, Madrid and Bayern. Fergie always seemed content with his team as he knew that with his man management skills, they were just good enough to win the league. Well now we are paying for those five years of neglect and stupidity. Now the great name and brand known as Manchester United is badly tarnished and no longer has the allure and reputation Fergie worked so hard to hold on to. Fergie and the Glazer’s are equally to blame because they all did nothing to avoid this disaster. Meanwhile fans like myself and others on and off this blog were warning everyone that this day would come. And now that it has come, I so wished I was dead wrong and would rather have been teased over my stupidity.

    • @Grognard: Welcome back old buddy! Good to hear from you again.

      I am almost out of Moyes’ Kool-Aid… after which I can only see a future of doom & gloom. I hope this is not the case, but the facts are coming in every week and the patterns are hard to ignore…

      • @Opti: It’s nice to be back and connect with you and others. How long it will be for is anyone’s guess. Tough days for all us fans and we all need to support each other through this trying period. A trying time that will not end until the ownership changes and a new manager and staff with new ideas and a grand strategy for the future and not the 20th century take over. For four years I cried anarchy against this regime. Now fans are taking it on the chin badly but I still see no anarchy. Loyal to the end for many. I too am loyal but I am also loudly angry full of displeasure. If I were a season ticket holder I’d take my remaining tickets, wipe my ass with them and mail them back to the Glazer’s. They deserve no better. Sorry for the disturbing image. :-P

    • @Grognard: Before I attempt to read your “book”, I just want to extend a Heartily Welcome Back!
      So glad you you came back. Missed you.

      • @Karl: Thanks Karl. And it’s not a book, just a novella. :wink: :wink: :-D

        • @Grognard: Just finished the novel (what can I say, I’m a slow reader :) ). Has all the qualities of a best seller, except for the hollywood ending where they live happily ever after.

          I’m in a way glad that we are falling astronomically fast. Never been one of long drawn-out episodes. At least this way, it will focus people’s attention on the fact that all is not well and the problem needs to be addressed sooner rather than later. No way Moyes is gonna see out his contract. Not even if he gets someone like Queros in. His personality is not strong enough. Nah, his days are numbered. I think he will be out by mid next season.

          For anyone thinking we will be fighting for 4th position…that’s wishful thinking. We will be lucky to stay in the top half (this season and next).

          All is not lost though. The worse we get (quickly), the better our chances of recovery once we get a good “strong” manager and technical staff. The Glazers will be forced to invest to turn things around. To them it will be simple economic mathematics. Maybe we’ll be lucky and some sheik will take it as his pet project to turn things around. All depends though on how quickly and spectacularly we can hit rock-bottom.

        • tonymontanna4united

          @Grognard: Good to have you back mate. It’s good to have you around the place once again.
          Hopefully your stay will be longer than your last.

    • Welcome back Grog!!! Is this the time when you calmly look around, summon your strengths and utter the words “I’ve been telling you that this was gonna happen for the past five years”?

      • @Dan: Thanks Dan. Yes it seems that way. My reason for returning is that I feel I need you guys to help me through this period. As a fan I need other like minded supporters of United to help give me strength and also give me a shoulder to cry on while allowing me to voice my displeasure.

        People don’t know me as the humble type but it really has never been my goal and ambition to be put in the position of telling everyone who has doubted my words and warnings over the years, that I was right. In fact I would have loved nothing more than for members to really tell me off due to the clubs great success. Unfortunately I was very sure of this scenario panning out exactly as it has. Many can blame Moyes and he deserves much of the blame but lets not forget that my warnings have been offered for going on four and one half years now. For the guiltiest culprits for this club’s present state are none other than the Glazer’s as well as…….yes, Sir Alex himself.

        It’s easy for many to give Fergie a free get out of jail card regarding this situation considering his tenure and legacy at the club, but I feel he was very negligent with this club in his last five years in charge. He never bought enough good talent, bought a lot of rubbish, stuck with old players and poor players for far too long, supported the owners when every sensible person out there knew better and could see all the warning signs and above all, never did enough to put together a club that any incoming manager could work with. Instead he sat with the same players who he knew were limited in skill and value and hired a manager he knew would not surpass his success even short term.

        The Glazer’s and Fergie have done the impossible. Their short term greedy and selfish natures have left the team in tatters and the brand in pieces. Recently we relinquished our position as second richest club. Not long ago we were the richest. Now we are number three and sliding. Nobody is buying Fellaini shirts and our allure has hit an all time low since the beginning of the Premier League. The only solution is to find new owners who will invest a lot of time and money to bring United back to the top of the mountain. Sack Moyes and his staff and release or sell at least a half dozen players while spending a fortune on talent that will once again have people turning their heads like they did in 2008. This has to happen soon before we slide into oblivion. Many are hoping for at least a Champions League position. Dream on!!!!! Even with Mata on the team and RVP and Rooney back, we have no chance because our defense is a joke and because Moyes is tactically inept and a poor manager who simply bit off more than he could chew. But like I said, the real blame cannot fall entirely on him. The guilty parties know who they are.

    • @Grognard: If Fergie’s idea was to get in a “humble yes man….. who would maintain the status quo” then his plan was thrown out on day one wasn’t it? Virtually the whole of Fergie’s backroom staff was fired. Now Moyes is in the process of getting rid of all the deadwood which Fergie either didn’t recognise as such or didn’t have the wherewithal to replace adequately. The Glazers must also be ruing the sudden discontinuance of the Fergie legacy as they are now having to come up with some real cash to replace the deadwood. At least, in a middling outcome, if the club gets shot of Moyes after two seasons due to lack of success, his successor, whoever the hell that might be, could have a reasonably decent squad to work with.

  • moyes is clueless he admits, I don’t see why people are questioning matas ability he has two assists.the problem is playing him wide, look at what happened to kagawa, the same shit different player, why loan out zaha and leave cleverly in the team.bringing welbeck in to play as a wide man yet we have Valencia, januzaj.playing mata as a number seven instead of ten, even when rooney is a number eight.talk about clueless its ryt on.

    • @shiks: United are too set in their way tactically. They live in the 70′s. Every great team in football, Barcelona, Bayern, Madrid, City, Arsenal, Dortmund and Chelsea have gone to a tighter continental style while mixing in a bit of wide play to keep defenses honest. Ribery, Ronaldo, Silva, Cazorla, Walcott, Robben, Bale etc are all wide players who spend more and more of their time cutting in and playing a narrow game. United however, still play the way they did when Fergie took over the club.

      We are tactically antiquated and naive. Wide is nice but it is our only tactic. That is the single solitary reason why Fergie did nothing to find quality central midfielders in his last four years in charge. He was obsessed with wingers. He believed in outflanking defenses rather than punching through them with either power, skill or finesse. That worked in the Prem because until very recent, half the teams were minnows who just parked the bus. That’s no longer the case. Most teams now, even the newly promoted like to attack and are playing the ball narrow with more passing and ball control. We have been left behind because we are unwilling to change and adapt. And even if we were, is David Moyes the man who is capable of implementing strategies to counter the likes of Guardiola, Ancelotti, Pellefrini, Mourinho and Wenger? I don’t think so. United needs to wake up and get out of the 20th century.

  • I see that a lot has been written here. There are things I agree with, but there are also things I just don’t buy. I’ll number them here:

    1. Glazers are the problem. Well, simply put-no, they are not. Not any more. Yes, they caused debt. We all know what happened. But under Glazers, this club is richer than ever. We’re just about to sign the best kit deal. Real Madrid earns 30 million a year from their kit sponsor-we’re going to double that. Investment in players, you say. Let’s see: 2011-60 million (De Gea, Jones, Young). Summer after that-45 million (Kagawa, RVP, Powell). Winter after that-Zaha, 15 million. Summer after that-Fellaini, 27 million. And now Mata-40 million. All together (give or take a few million)-170 million in 2.5 years. Even with the selling of Ronaldo-it’s a substantial investment, on par with the biggest English and European clubs. As for players bought-well, managers are responsible for picking the players-executive negotiate the technicalities and Glazers fork out money. End of story.

    2. All this is Fergie’s fault. Not true. Simply not true. You may talk about transition, bad opposition, turmoil at Chelsea, City, Arsenal…over and over-but Fergie still managed to not win, but DOMINATE the Premier League, with this very team minus Fellaini and Mata, mere six months ago. How did he do that? Well, doing precisely what Moyes can’t do-beating lesser opposition over and over. Notching 25 wins in 30 games. Routinely beating all Stokes, West Broms, Cardiffs, Southamptons, Evertons and Newcastles of this world. As for the Europe-you seem to forgot the Real Madrid games. You seem to forgot that United was (as admitted by Madrid’s manager) by far the better team, and that referee virtually gifted Real the win with the ridiculous Nani red card. We scored two goals, hit the woodwork thrice in two games, and created much more chances than Madrid. All this, with supposedly weak midfield and holey squad. Which brings me to the point number three.

    3. Midfield. It’s bad, it’s horrendous, we haven’t signed a decent midfielder for six years, and so on, and so forth. Again, not true. The best midfielder of the league last season-Michael Carrick. Tom Cleverley-his performances last year earned him England caps (competition for that: Lampard, Gerrard, Carrick, Parker, Wilshere…). Phil Jones-was capable of completely shutting down Gareth Bale and Christiano Ronaldo from the DMF position. He put the Golden Ball winner in his pocket and zipped it. That holey, mediocre, trash midfield dominated the league-bar the away game vs City (which we won), we had better possession than any other opponent, in any other game. We scored three goals per game-large majority of them through the middle (remember the bad season Nani, Young and Valencia had). Ok, this midfield is not on par with Barcelona and Bayern-but rubbish, mediocre, incapable of anything useful-hell no.

    4. Team. Weaker than before. Not true. We managed to hold Rooney, we bought Fellaini, Januzaj bursted into first team, and now Mata. We have much, much stronger team than last year, and that’s a fact.

    Having said all this, it’s time to name the main culprit-and that is, undoubtedly David Moyes. Let’s number the reasons again:

    1. Tactical ineptitude. Our play is totally disorganized and dependent from the wingers-why? Because Moyes wants us to cross and play long balls. No flexibility-his tactics (or rather, lack of) are same against Sunderland and against Chelsea. Give ball to Carrick or Cleverley, make them pass sideways to the winger, cross, cross cross. When under pressure-give ball to the defender, let him catapult it in the air to Rooney and/or RVP. Brian Clough said-If God wanted to play football in midair, he would have put the pitch in the sky. How very true-and how very inept of Moyes not to get that. It’s not problem that our game is bad-for example, we did play well against Stoke. The players really gave their best. THe problem is, our game is soooooo predictable. What was Fergie’s most admirable feature-apart from man-management, unpredictability. He wasn’t a tactical genius-but you never knew what tactics he was going to utilize. Moyes is the opposite-whomever he plays, the game’s always going to be the same. He’s totally incompetent to use technically gifted players like Mata, Kagawa and Januzaj who like to hold to the ball and pass it instead of kicking it in the air. His knowledge about the game is stuck somewhere in the 80s, when Alan Durban was considered a good manager and Terry Butcher a world class defender. That simply does not work any more, not even against Stoke City.

    2. Mentality. Moyes is a loser. Period. More precisely-a small timer. Ideal to lead some wee club where midtable finish or Europa League is reason for celebration-utterly incompetent to lead a big club. His rigidity, his tendency to diminish expectations, his stupid, almost laughable wish to defend 1:0 and 2:1 leads instead of scoring two goals more and finishing the opposition off-all that reveals us an overcautious, cowardly losing mentality. There’s no courage, no wish to take the risk, no win at all costs-he just comes, sulks at the bench, shake hands with the opposing manager and goes. A picture of incompetence and fear if there ever was one.

    3. Man-management. Complete bullshit. He had temerity to say, in public, that the players aren’t good enough to win Champions League. He had temerity to say that about players who already won that, and played in the final two more times. He chased Zaha out of the club. His sucking up to every Rooney’s whim lose him every respect in the dressing room-Ferdinand, Giggs, Evra, Vidic are treating him as a clown, and deservedly so. He’s not capable of explaining them what to to, where to go, he just sticks to his “system” which brings us defeat after defeat after defeat. No authority, no “hairdryer”, no genuine wish to change things-just a frightened, clueless middle-aged man who doesn’t know what hit him.

    Therefore, the main and only solution to our problems-sacking Moyes. Bringing a competent manager who already trained a big team and who knows what he should do and how to deal with pressure. Because I’m sick and tired of listening how the team is no good-not true. Simply not true. 2010-this team dominated Bayern. 2013-this team dominated Real Madrid. 2011-we played CL final. 2011, 2013-PL trophies. All this with WORSE team than we have now. All this with “horrendous” “mediocre” midfield. No way, Pedro. We’re a good team, with good players-incompetent manager MADE us mediocre.

    I think Moyes is actually a good man. I really, sincerely wish him all the best in his life. But he’s NOT the man for this job. And the sooner he gets his incompetent and clueless self out of our bench, the better.

    • Glazers are no longer the problem? Haha, do me a favour. They’ve always been the problem. Since day 1.

      • @Dan: At the same time, they didn’t blow £70 million players we don’t know how to use or fit into the team’s tactical gameplan (if we even have one).

      • @Dan: I see where MoyesOut is coming from. The Glazer rot that festered as large debt payments and lack of investment immediately after Ronaldo’s departure is effectively gone. Debt today is well-managed (about 20M/year), significant investments have been made into squad (whether wise is Manager’s territory), and large strides have been made to improve finances of United (i.e. sponsor money is off the charts). The economic long-term outlook of United is healthy, even if United misses out on the 45M from Champions League next season. So I can understand why the Glazer’s do not need to be the focus of attention. I highly doubt they would have hired Moyes in a “free” market.

        The Glazers are creeps and leeched off of United, but have a strong desired to make United competitive on the pitch: they own shares, so they lose when United’s value drops, which it has done in the last 8 months. Annually we have a profit of more than 40 (not counting Champions league) and have 80 million in cash reserves . That’s enough to compete with anyone in footballing world.

        These are all FACTS, not beliefs, so there is no real use in arguing about United’s finances. They are much healthier than our recent results.

        Get rid of Moyes first (if he loses another game!), then bring in top manager with a record of winning actual trophies (not mid-table positions). Let’s see if United can compete again… I think United can easily sustain the Fergie-success… just don’t believe Moyes is the right man.

        • @Opti: We can blame the Glazer’s a lot mate but lets face it, this same squad won the league last season playing better football. Our club does not create enough chances, our defense is not organized and tight, our finishing lacks precision and focus and our pace and movement off the ball is often non-existent. That all falls on the lap of one man, David Moyes. A man capable of running a small fast food kiosk but completely unqualified to run a four star restaurant.

        • I don’t care if the debts are manageable. £600m that could have been invested on players have been syphoned out of the club. That’s the beginning and the end of it. As for the Glazers being interested about on-pitch results, that’s not necessarily true either, as the brand will continue to generate money for another couple of seasons until shit really hits the fan. Only a couple of barren seasons leading to sponsorships drying up would see them losing money, particularly as the shares are the last thing they worry about given how much money they’ve made so far.

      • @Dan: Well put. Now all of a sudden they are willing to open their purse strings because they are in panic mode. Their neglect of the club on the pitch and reliance on the Mirror Man Fergie has finally caught up with them. They just thought they could sit back and watch the money roll in while fully believing that this club would always win no matter what. Now they are in desperation mode as their pot of gold is beginning to dwindle and it is no longer magically replenishing itself. The brand has taken a worldwide hit as nobody is buying United anymore. They thought buying like misers could continue indefinitely but I for one knew that as soon as Fergie left, reality would offer up a swift kick in the asses of each and every Glazer.

        Now they want to buy players but now is too late. The damage is done. The club has a numpty in charge and the club’s declining value and position in the standings has made it almost impossible to positively go out next summer and attract the world’s elite players. Even Ronaldo who was unhappy at Madrid knew better than to return to his beloved United while Moyes was their deconstructing things. United will fail miserably next season trying to get world class players to come to United when we will not be in the Champions League and while David Moyes and his cronies continue to offer up uninspired and antiquated strategies and tactics. We had Mourinho if we wanted but we passed on that. Guardiola was smart enough to say no before he was even asked while choosing the ambitious and mega spending Bayern instead. Klopp would rather stay with the financially modest Dortmund than waste his time and ability trying to keep United above water while Team Glazer are still in charge. And the beat goes on.

        We are stuck with Moyes because under the present regime, which manager worth his price i n gold would touch us? Neil Warnock anyone?

        • @Grognard:

          Sorry, but what are you talking about? You seem to easily forget things. You say that Glazers only invested now, when they “hit the panic mode”? What about last summer? 45 million investment. What about summer before that? 60 million investment. Glazers smashed United’s transfer record twice (Berbatov, Mata). They invested 170 million in two and a half years.

          Two years ago we were the best team in England by far, and the second best team in Europe (only Barcelona was better than us, we were better than everybody else). With this same players. And now someone is convincing me these players are bad. Sorry, but I don’t buy that.

          Players stayed the same (plus there were substantial strengthening-Fellaini and Mata), club stayed the same, only manager changed-and we’re suddenly fighting for an Europa League spot. Who’s to blame? The new manager, of course.

          I concur with Opti-If our footballing side were as good as our commercial/financial side, we would be sitting pretty in the 1st place at the PL table.

      • @Dan: They invested 70 million in the squad and got us the best sponsorship deals. What more do you want from them? Under their tenure, we won CL, played two finals and also won the league several times.

        The only mistake Glazers and Fergie made in the last three years was hiring Moyes. How come all these PL and CL winning players suddenly became mediocre? Did Glazers make them mediocre? Not for one moment. They’re playing mediocre football because they’re being managed by mediocre, overly conservative and tactically obsolete manager.

        • Under the Glazers we have also lost £600m. They didn’t invest a single penny, the £70m we spent was money the club would have generated anyway.

        • The_Philosopher

          @MoyesOut: I’m with you all the way MoyesOut.

          David Moyes is the biggest problem at Man Utd not the Glazers.

          I’m not a fan of the Glazers but they are a much smaller evil than David Moyes.

          David Moyes will do more damage to this club than the Glazers.

  • What bothers me is when people make excuses for Moyes and the whole club is buying it. Blame the players. Blame Sir Alex. Blame the Glazers. But give Moyes a chance-after all Ferguson took ages to win his first title!

    The truth is that Moyes is a loser. Happy at a blue collar club like Everton where there are no real expectations. Able to play simple football based on physical presence, aerial ability and hard work. But completely lost at a club like ours with intelligent players like Van Persie, Kagawa, Nani and Carrick. And watch him destroy Juan Mata. Instead he tries to build a team around Cleverley, Young, Valencia, Rooney and Phil Jones all of whom with the exception of Rooney would be right at home at Everton (although they probably wouldn’t get a game). And I highly suspect his training methods are probably the reason our senior players are persistently injured and look like they’ve aged ten years.

    But in my eyes his biggest fault is that he is incapable of commanding the respect and fear of the players. For me that was Ferguson’s greatest attribute. His ability to make his teams believe and want to win more than the opposition and have the courage and desire to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.

    We saw time and time at Everton the way Moyes would bottle the games that really mattered (and unfortunately at Manchester United every game matters). And the pattern is repeating here.

    • tonymontanna4united

      @colver: It’s a case of all of them being culpable really imo.

      The Glazers have for years under invested in the club (our net spend the last 5 years is as much as fucking Stoke), and this has led to our squad lacking quality (albeit I struggle to believe anyone who claims this side is worse than the likes of Liverpool, Everton and apparently Newcastle, Swansea, Sunderland and now Stoke :roll: ).

      Fergie is to blame for wasting alot of what funds we did have on absolute garbage (bebe, tosic, obertan, young), letting our best young talent leave in Pogba because he couldn’t look past Scholes and Giggs, and leaving Moyes with a fucking train wreck of a midfield.
      Picking his successor and staying on at the club in a Directors role despite claims for years that he wouldn’t, is another screw up on his part.

      And finally the players are to blame for playing like shite all season, because it’s obvious they are so much better than this, even if they do have an idiot of a manager in charge of them.

      So it’s a combination of all of them really, but at the end of the day Moyes is the manager, he’s the one whose so far had £65m to spend to address the holes in the squad, he’s the one in charge of the players and getting the most out of them, raising morale and getting them to play to their best, and he’s the one who needs to be the leader right now and inspire some confidence and show he’s the right man for the job.
      So far he’s done none of that, and looks more and more out of his depth as each game goes by.

      So I agree. The excuse making and the calls for more time is wearing thin.
      Moyes deserves every bit of criticism he is getting, and really does need to be shown the door now before he make things even worse.
      But let’s not act like Moyes is alone in creating the shit that we currently find ourselves in, because he isn’t.

      • @tonymontanna4united: I believe this article that Wharzycha posted pretty much explains explains everything from a non-RedRants perspective.

        http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1279039-man-uniteds-decline-how-united-have-regressed-tactically-since-queiroz#sthash.7LIDU24c.dpuf

        We’ve all been saying or wanting the same thing essentially, just from different perspectives because we all could see and sense that something went amiss. We just could never really pinpoint it. Because of our differing perspectives and bias, we ended up arguing…over the same thing.

        I think we can all agree:
        1. The club needs to replace – a lot of – players
        2. The club needs to change our outdated tactics
        3. There were insufficient investment in the club – especially since the record- breaking Ronaldo departure
        4. Fergie did not invest wisely with the funds he did have available
        5. Our regression started during Fergie’s last few years’ tenure
        6. Moyes is out of his depth and doomed for failure. The longer he stays, the greater the failure.
        …and then the point that causes division…
        7. Our rebuild needs to start at management level, not player level.

        • tonymontanna4united

          @Karl: Well said Karl.
          On points, 2, 5 & 7, it makes the reasoning to go for someone “cut from Ferguson’s cloth” (still cringe at that comment) sound all the more fucking stupid.
          There was never going to be another Fergie, and truth be told even with Fergie our last few years we looked like a club that had grown tired, a bit lazy and predictable in every aspect.
          What we really needed was someone completely different to Fergie, who would have come in, not obsessed with keeping things the “united way”, wouldn’t have been afraid to rip things up, in some cases start things from scratch, and bring us into the 21st century.
          You look at some of the other successful clubs in europe today and how many of them are teams who go with people who bring stability, keep things the same, are cut from the same cloth as their previous choices?
          The likes of Barca and Bayern are always changing managers who keep bringing in new and fresh ideas to build on the foundations at the club, (eg Van Gaal at Bayern 3/4 years back).
          Stability is overrated in football.
          There are more successful clubs out there who change managers every 2-5 years than there are successful clubs who stick to the same manager for 10+ years, and it’s not hard to see why.

      • @tonymontanna4united:

        Our net spend in last 5 years-139 million.

        Bayern Munich net spend in last 5 years-125 million.

        Under-invested? Don’t think so.

        • @MoyesOut: Very misleading. 139 DIVIDED BY 5 works out 27 Million a year. Pales in comparison to the money Barca spent for Neymar, what Madrid spent on Ronaldo, Bale, what Bayern spent on Gotze, Lewandowski, Thiago, what City have spent the past three years, what Chelsea have spent and the money thrown out by PSG and Monaco the past few years. Tottenham may prove the point that spending over 100 million in one year doesn’t guarantee success but at least they gave it a try and at least they spent the money they got from Bale on players. Quite different to the missing 70 million that came to United from Madrid. Fact is our owners are nothing more than extortionists who now are ready spend serious money for world stars because all of a sudden the money faucet has run dry and only drops are coming out. The brand has taken a hit and nobody wants to buy United merchandise or use United in the adverts. To be big you have to spend big. Hell, we have become Liverpool, New3castle and other mid table pretenders who spend a little here and there but not enough to keep up with the big boys. Like we could ever dish out the cash it would take to get a Ronaldo, Messie, Falcao, Gotze etc.

    • @colver: As I said, Moyes prefers “production workers” as opposed to “skilled workers”.

      Brawns over Brains.

      • @Karl: Karl, I wouldn’t have a problem with that if that worked. Jose Mourinho prefers brawns over brains too-and it works. Well, most of the time.

        Problem is-there is not a shade of organization in the team. Our defending is comical, our midfield static, our attack cut off. Game after game after game. I followed Juan Mata vs Swansea and Stoke. He was available at the middle of the pitch at least 5-6 times per game, free as a bird. But our defender decided to play long ball.

        Michael Carrick was renowned for his excellent through balls from the deep. What does he do now? He passes sideways. Why. Because someone (and we all know who) told him to give ball to the wing.

        Under Ferguson, Ashley Young was allowed to cut inside and shoot. Whenever he does that, he scores a brilliant goal. But under Moyes-no. He has to hug the touchline and cross. Same goes for Valencia and the fullbacks.

        Of course, long balls were allowed under Fergie too. But not for everybody-we all know who was allowed to play long balls. Carrick,Scholes and Rooney. And that was it. And it worked, because these are guys who know how to pass long and who know how to PLAY THROUGH THE MIDDLE. Remember RVP-s goal against Villa and Rooney’s brilliant assist. That was Manchester United last year. Good counterattacks, play through the middle and utilization of our attacking force. Granted, we were sometimes shaky defensively-but we always managed to outscore opponents.

        David Moyes has even more chance to play attacking football, as he has more talented attacking-minded and creative players at his disposal. Mata, Januzaj, Rooney, Persie, Kagawa. Don’t tell me there’s no creativity in that team. Why Valencia has to play every game. Why not Mata, Rooney and Januzaj behind RVP? Sure, we would be shaky defensively-but we’d be playing attacking, creative, exciting football and we’d be capable to beat any team-just like we were last year. But no-with Moyes it’s caution above all else, long balls and defending 1:0 leads. Badly.

        I think Moyes actually made a wrong career choice. He would have been an excellent rugby coach. His methods are very suitable for rugby. For modern football-alas, they’re not.

    • @colver: Well put. I blame the Glazer’s, Fergie as well as Moyes and his coaching stooges. Moyes was hired buy Fergie though. As inept and as unqualified as he is, we need to blame the man who hired him. The Glazer’s allowed this ship to slowly rot and allow water for years. They sold Ronaldo and did nothing to help the club on the pitch recover from that loss. Every year we would gamble on a player or two but never really spent the kind of money for another Ronaldo. Our failure to get Lucas Moura is an example of our naive and ridiculous transfer and wage policies that were in place and forced a talent like that to choose PSG instead. Those same restrictions had lose out on Ballack, Sneijder, Hazard, Mata (the first time), Aguero, Silva, Ozil, Thiago etc etc. Our only success was buying players like RVP and Berbatov who when they signed were closing in on 30. Clearly our ambition was short term and restrained to 1/3 the total being spent by the other big clubs. There in-lies the root of our problem.

      Had we bought more quality players, let go of useless gits like Anderson, Young, Evra etc and kept the club rich with blue chip talent, then our situation would not be so grave. Even if Moyes still failed with his naivete and lack of man management and tactical skills, at least we would still have had a foundation of great talent to build with and the change of manager would springboard us back to the top and into contention with the best. But instead we have an inept manager who has an overrated and relatively pedestrian club that are sinking faster than the Titanic. Ironically, the Titanic had owners who cut corners by buying cheap rivets and steel, not securing water proof decks properly, having enough life boats and hiring a captain who was literally asleep at the wheel. They ignored all the warnings. I think you all get the analogy.

  • at this difficult time we all need to get behind david moyes……………………and push him out!!!

  • With Liverpool’s fortunate draw against West Brom, United’s sliver of a chance to make 4th just became a sliver of a chance.

    At the current pace, 4th place will need around 74 points total. That means United have to get about 2.4 points per game… which has been Man City’s pace all season. This means one simple thing: the margin of error is exactly the size of a sliver…

    NO ROOM FOR FUCKING ERRORS, MOYES!!!! GET IT RIGHT, NOW!!! :evil: :evil:

    • tonymontanna4united

      @Opti: I think top 4 is gone regardless now tbh Opti.
      7 points isn’t too grand a total to overcome I agree, and tbh I do think Liverpool will run out of puff before the season is done, but with Moyes in charge I just don’t see us being able to go on the sort of run we would need to overcome that deficit.
      Since September 14th apart from the weekend we beat Arsenal, our highest league position has been 5th. Other than that we’ve been 9th-6th pretty much consistently all season.
      In the top 7 somewhere will be where we’ll finish, and not much better I’m afraid.

      • @tonymontanna4united: Unless we start peppering teams with shots and chances, I expect us to fall even more. Mata is here while RVP and Rooney are back but I am not seeing a large enough increase of chances created. We also have no killer instinct. We go up 1-0 early and basically do nothing else all game. Our defense is not good enough where we can be satisfied scoring one goal a game. That is why I question whether we can even finish 5th, 6th or 7th. We probably will but I would not be surprised if we slid further down simply because I feel Moyes has lost the dressing room. I think the players have tuned him out and when that happens, all the talent in the world won’t help.

        • NotamassivefanoftheGlazers!

          @Grognard:
          “I feel Moyes has lost the dressing room. I think the players have tuned him out and when that happens, all the talent in the world won’t help.”
          If true, and looking at the insepid performances I don’t doubt it then what do you perceive happening? Cheaper/quicker to replace the manager than a whole squad.

        • @Grognard:
          NotamassivefanoftheGlazers! Obviously the solution starts with sacking Moyes and that alone might galvanize the squad and motivate them for a last second run to the Champions League. Buying players has to wait until the summer but even then the World Cup distraction and delay could scupper our plans. Picking the right long term manager and giving him the kind of money to make a big statement is the only thing that will interest the biggest talent.

          If we lose out on the Champions League we will be pressed to try to finish 4th next season before the big names consider us again, unless a manager of the caliber of Klopp, Mourinho or Guardiola gets hired. And last I heard, none of them are available or interested. So if we get rid of Moyes, who takes over? My prediction……………….SIR ALEX FERGUSON. For a year or two until a Klopp or some new emerging super manager gets interested. Right now only Fergie himself is capable of stopping the bleeding and the slide. And despite all he has done for the club, he owes us all a year in order to make up for his worst signing of all time, Mr. David Moyes.

    • @Opti: And realistically, can you see this present squad with this manager maintaining that pace when they can’t even guarantee their games at home anymore? It’s over mate. Too many teams to vault over in order to gain that position. Liverpool has issues but they at least play with confidence and attack. They create numerous chances in a game. So does Tottenham. We do not create enough chances and the few chances we do give up end up in goals because our keeper is too overrated and to inept. When was the last time De Gea made a big world class save that really mattered? I used to be high on the kid but he reminds me of Ben Foster. A keeper who excels when he faces a lot of shots but who lacks the concentration and focus when he has little to do. As poor as we have been, it’s not like we give up many chances. Had De Gea just stopped 30% of the goals he has conceded this season, we would be 9 points better than we are.

      I do not see enough criticism directed at our keeper. His season last year seems to have bought him a free pass this year. Fact is he has sucked. After watching the performance of Marshall yesterday for Cardiff, I wonder if most our troubles cannot be hung on a keeper that lives by the motto “Thou Shalt Pass”.

      • @Grognard: Probabilistically, realistically, and other -ically’s, I cannot see it. But it is a POSSIBLE scenario, so I will not rule out that the Spirits of Busby and 1999 somehow infect our players who then grab the games by the scruff of their necks and win the majority of the games from now on. However, one more loss and another Liverpool win will make it impossible I fear.

        I believe in United, not Moyes.

      • @Grognard: your last point on De Gea is interesting. In the beginning of the season he was saving our skin pretty much every game to keep us in it. He made on enormous error against Sunderland, which Chicharito corrected.

        With the rotations in defense/midfield around DDG, I will give him a smaller part of the blame for any lack of success this season. He also has 0 competition as Lindegaard is never used, so perhaps DDG isn’t as motivated as in past seasons.

        • @Opti: Possibly. But the fact remains, he has made fewer world class big saves this year than he made in any 5 game stretch last season. And that howler against Sunderland was just painful to watch.

  • Glazers aren’t going anywhere, Woodward isn’t going anywhere, and Moyes is not going anywhere. Bare minimum, 2 years of freefall under Moyes. Then bare minimum another 2 years of rebuilding before any type of competition(this would be predicated on the Glazers picking a qualified manager and giving him carte blanche), which won’t happen.

    I say the team is dead, and I think that’s pretty undeniably true. Nothing can force the Glazers out. Moyes can be forced out, sure, but only after reducing this team to ashes, he’ll get 2 years for sure.

    Nothing that any fan says will change any of that. 0 Fans could attend every game at old trafford, and it wouldn’t matter one bit. Glazers are here to stay.

    And they won’t bring in the Manager we need. They won’t spend the money we need. It’s not football philosophy that is killing this club. It’s the refusal to make changes that have to be made.

    And that attitude isn’t going to change, because it comes from the Glazers, and they are going nowhere.

    This club is dead.

    • @Ben: Couldn’t agree with you more. Denial is a river that runs right through Old Trafford. Like Victorian England and old aristocracy, they rebel stubbornly to progress and change.

  • Grognard,

    I really don’t get your comment. 138/5=27.5. So what? If we do the math with Bayern-125/5=25.

    We didn’t do well last summer-that’s true. But year before that we spent 115 million. We were the biggest spenders in the league this January.

    And more important-spending or no spending, we had winning machine of a team. Yes, even in Europe. Let me remind you of the team that reached CL final 2.5 years ago: VDS, Fabio-Ferdinand-Vidic-Evra; Valencia-Carrick-Giggs-Nani, Rooney-Chicharito.

    We have all that players now (ok, except Fabio), plus: RVP, Mata, Fellaini, Januzaj. First three players costed 95 million. When you see this numbers, you really can’t talk about underinvestment.

    Even the team last year, with guys like Vidic, Ferdinand, Evra and Giggs older, was able to dominate the league, and don’t forget how we went out in Europe-Real Madrid played with 12 players against our ten lads. Even with ten players, we created 4 clear cut chances in 20 minutes against Madrid.

    And now you want to convince me players capable of that are bad, and that under-investment is our problem? Sorry, but I can’t accept that as valid explanation.

    It’s true that Fergie was able to motivate lads to do their very best-after all, it’s Fergie, the best ever, we’re talking about here. But still-motivating a team to do very best is a crucial part of the job of any manager. If he’s not able to do that, he’s usually shown the door.

    I actually pity Moyes. He’s a good, decent, likeable bloke who really tries. It’s visible that he is genuinely shaken by bad results. But the sad true is-he doesn’t know how to get things right. He’s simply not capable to lead a big club. He’s making bad decisions, which bring bad results, which bring more bad decisions under pressure-vicious cycle. I say, let’s cut both his and our misery and sack him. He’ll be able to find the job in a smaller club which is more suitable for him, and we’ll be able to hire an experienced winner of a manager and be back to our winning ways.

    Let me speak very frankly: if someone offers me this deal: United will not buy players in the summer, but will hire, for example, Heynckess as a manager-I’d accept that without a shadow of a doubt.

    • How much of that money was spent on central midfielders?

      Okay.

      So case closed right?

      I mean, if we spent 500 million on strikers, wingers, and number 10′s, surely we could agree, that investment, was still an issue, since required positions are not being filled.

      We have strikers. RVP was a great addition, but we have good strikers. If we had a midfield, and didn’t have to play Rooney as a pseudo-midfielder(no no no no no, just no), then we’d be doing fantastic as to strikers. That doesn’t count as squad investment. That’s a waste.

      We have Kagawa to sit behind the striker. If we ever let him play there, we would get truly great performances out of him. Januzaj plays well on the wings, but again, he’s a player that would be well used directly behind the striker, and it’s where he’s said he wants to play and feels best. That’s players to sit behind the striker, both of them excellent. Buying Mata is not investment in the squad, it’s buying upgrading a position that we don’t need upgraded, because even the players that would be well used in this position, never are played there. So again, not investment, just pissing away of money.

      In positions where we have badly needed investment, it has not happened.

      • @Ben: very true and has been discussed when mata was purchased. only explanation is that we are planning on putting vidal and kroos behind a attacking 4 of any of our many adnan roony mata rvp kagowa nani…

        otherwise the purchase of mata was boneheaded.

        the tactics have to change. and our midfielders have to improve

        defense has to improve. we could use a whole new back 4 tbh with evra vida and ferdi set to leave that’s not even cutting deep.

        hope feli comes back soon with something to prove we need all the help we can get.

    • @MoyesOut: First of all you and I seem to be in agreement other than you harping on the spending. Your numbers are mythical as United spend very little per season compared to the big clubs who will spend over 50 or 60 million to get a superstar. All I know is if there is a superstar out there that is valued at over 60 million, only Barca, Madrid, PSG, Monaco and City will have the audacity and the deep pockets to get him. United cap themselves and are a mid range spender. That would be fine if we only needed one player per year but we need four or five players and now we may even need more. RB, CB, LB, CDM, MF and RAM are immediate needs. At least we got the CAM out of the way with Mata. A backup keeper who can play would also be nice. That’s a lot of changes and that’s because of years of neglect and poor buys spending small for players who were just not United class. If things continue as they are, it won’t be long
      before many forget what “United Class” actually signifies.

      • @Grognard:

        Who’s the superstar in the City team? Nobody. No superstars, but they still manage to play exciting attacking football. Why? Because they have a progressively thinking manager.

        Who’s the superstar in Chelsea? Mourinho, and only Mourinho. Who’s the superstar in Arsenal? Ozil, granted, but they didn’t invest a penny before bringing him.

        At United, we’ve got three players, Rooney, RVP, Mata, that were consistently in the top5 players of the PL last three years. All these players were bought under Glazer’s regime.

        If we compare our net spending and City’s net spending in the last three years, the difference is maybe 20 million in City’s favour. Not so crucial a difference.

        The point is-as RVP’s, Berbatov’s, Mata’s and Fellaini’s transfer show, the money was always, and still is, available. Even Fergie said so. Moyes said so too. Woodward said so too. And the players are coming. We managed to recruit the best player of a direct rival with Mata transfer. If that’s not a genuine transfer coup, I don’t know what that is.

        The only thing we have to do is to play to our strengths. And our strength is in attack. Play Mata, Rooney and Januzaj/Kagawa together, press, dribble, attack and shoot. Play football, not rugby. If Moyes does that, I’ll forgive him everything. But he’ll never do that because 1. He’s a small timer. 2. He doesn’t know how.

        • @MoyesOut: I agree, the money was there available…Fergie/Moyes invested foolish.

        • @MoyesOut: Are you joking? Toure, Silva, Negredo, Kompany and especially Aguero are all superstars. Then they have six or seven others that are very good and much much better than United’s second tier.

          As for Chelsea, well Hazard, Oscar, Willian, are very very good but I agree that Mourinho is the key ingredient there. He gets the very best out of what he has to work with. Moyes has little to work with and he even gets less out of them. NUFF SAID!!!!

    • @MoyesOut: “I actually pity Moyes. He’s a good, decent, likeable bloke who really tries.”

      A former baseball manager (Leo Durocher) once coined a phrase that has become legendary in North America for both sports and business. Some even use in life. “NICE GUYS FINISH LAST”. Fergie was not a nice guy. In fact he was a major ass to many. But he knew how to win and was cutthroat about how he went about it. To coin an other great quote from the legend of American football Vince Lombardi, “WINNING ISN’T EVERYTHING, IT’S THE ONLY THING”.

      Mate, I’m a United fan and I’m spoiled rotten when it comes to winning. At this stage in my life and as a fan of United, losing is not tolerable nor is it even an option. MOYES OUT…… NOW!…..

  • Moyes will definitely be given money to spend. But what is the point if he doesn’t know how to use the players he signs and gives no consideration to how they are going to fit with the tactics he intends to play?

    Lets face it Moyes is not the manager who is going to move us away from a 4-4-2 (or rather 4-4-1-1)

    So what is he doing signing Mata when we have Rooney playing behind the striker and Kagawa adequate back up and Powell looking promising for the future and Januzaj able to do a job there as well? While Mata is more versatile than Kagawa and will do a job out wide which is almost certainly going to be his new position whenever Rooney is fit if there weren’t any decent central midfielders available in January we should have brought in a young exciting winger. Young and Valencia are fine as bench warmers but if we are going to play 90s football we at least need two world class wingers.

    Playing footballers in their natural positions is a basic enough concept for even Moyes to understand. Yet we continue to play Jones as a central midfielder, Smalling as a right back, Kagawa as a winger and most likely Mata as a winger because Rooney isn’t going to let someone like Moyes shove him out wide and Van Persie isn’t going to sit on the bench.

    That being said and disregarding speculation about who will can bring in in the summer this is how I’d save our season:

    For the rest of the season I’d play Nani until he comes good with Januzaj on the other wing. It is nonsensical to bench Januzaj.

    I’d actually rather we play Mata in central midfield in much the same way as we converted Scholes and Giggs into central midfielders and play him alongside either Fellaini or Fletcher who will make up for Mata’s lack of defence.

    I’d rather play Valencia as cover for Rafael and end this failed experiment of playing Smalling at right back.

    And since we persist in traditional wing play at least have two strikers in the box to get on the end of crosses. Rooney has shown he is more than capable of getting on the end of crosses and is surprisingly good in the air and Van Persie can do the same. All it takes is for the manager to tell them to play higher up the pitch.

    So my team would be:

    De Gea-Rafael/Valencia, Smalling, Evans/Vidic, Evra-Nani, Fellaini/Fletcher, Mata, Januzaj-RVP, Rooney

    No complicated tactics or fancy football required. Surely even Moyes can handle this?

    • @colver: He will still trust Valencia and Young. See the reason below. You almost said it. As long as he the defense stands in front of our box, we will continue to need wingers who can defend. If he takes the risk to move defnders upfront and press all over the pitch, then we need a mix of technical and energetic players.

      The question is : do we have the coaches to change tactics, to blend the new ideas in the team? Emphatic NO.

    • @colver: Even if he gets money to spend, good luck being able to convince the best players to come to United if we aren’t in the Champions League. The brand and allure this club used to carry like a chip on their shoulder has suddenly been knocked off. Now we are only going to be able to attract second tier talent in the summer. Mata was a fortunate purchase because he was desperate for playing time so that he could make the World Cup with Spain. That scenario only comes up in January of a World Cup or EURO year.

  • three things

    1. Big players go to small teams. Especially if the teams have a vision, a champions league plan. But money is respected more than vision nowadays. So yes, we have the champions league vision, not the coaches to do so and not the hefty budget that man city and chelsea have.

    2. There are two crucial areas in modern football that must be attacked. The one is between the CB and the full back. The other is between the full back and the line. Both of them are attacked off the ball and on the ball. Look closely how defenses become 6 – 2 – 2. For example, Smalling closes inside and Valencia is the player that becomes a right full back. So Valencia marks the opposite winger or the full back that attacks the line. When attackin, either you got wingers closing in or wingers go by the line, those are the areas that are being attacked. Remember young’s last goal. He closed in , attackin the area between CB and full back.

    We did well under fergie ‘s last years, defending those areas, and pretty average when attacking those areas. Rafael is the best in helping to attack these areas and Evra is quality too. Smalling and Jones are shit in this task and buttner is shit anyways..
    But under Moyes, who is supposed to play overlapping tactics, we can’t defend those areas. It’s awful. And we really aren’t better in attacking those areas.

    It’s a mystery to me why an overlapping tactician can’t train his players to attack those areas.
    My conclusion is that this fact is one more added to the others that show we have bad coaches. I mean, really bad coaches.

    3. This is modern football when you have a defensive line just in front of the box. Barcelona use different tactics, they press high upfront and the defenders are standing near the middle of the pitch. Completely different tactics.

    The above tactics, 6-2-2 when defending, need hardworking wingers. That’s why we see stupid young all the time and valencia of course. If we are to play really modern football, we need two quick CBs (Jones!!!) and some pretty good technicians upfront, such as mata, januzaj etc., or very energetic players who can press all ninety minutes, such as welbeck.

    I think there will never be a team able to play both of these tactics in a high level. Barcelona, if they continue as they play, will always be lesser in the air and in defending , whilst mourinho’s teams will always be strong in the air and will have the luizaos and the ivanovics needed to stop the iniestas.

  • clearly we need to play 3-7-0

  • Hey Groggy (Van the Man), how r u doing bro??? Great to see you Back. I really missed you on here, becoz U,me and Tony were amonst the only few who were berating about this fall. And when it eventually came none of us were here… though I was regularly checking on here was not commenting too often. And i was womdering where have u been and how r u doing. Thought u r having tine out and away from United misery and enjoying the Shining Sun of Bayern Munich with some of the Best Talent along with one of Best Manager on show. But no u r back as we r real and the Original Doom Merchants on here right??? Anyway on work… will catch up later…. hope to see u here till next you have another fight with Red, or Colvet or Ben or Jaywire or Tony or Me or Best yet Ian and u r out of here… :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:

    • @Onkar: Nice to be back mate. I too have missed the banter with guys like you and several others. Tough times for our beloved club. Yes I do have the other club to fall back on as well but my heart is very much at Old Trafford. Waitng for the hammer to fall on Moyes and then hopefully the end of the Glazer regime will follow. Wishful thinking I guess. Just watched Chelsea manhandle City and I was fuming that Fergie and the clowns in charge never had the smarts to hire that man. That was a master class by Chelsea and if they had any luck and some better finishing the game would have ended 5-1 or 6-1. 1-0 humbled City. I’m jealous of Chelsea because instead we have a clown like Moyes deconstructing the greatest dynasty in British football history. At least I had a great time watching the Super Bowl. Love my Patriots but the Seahawks are close second. That was the definition of AWESOME. :)

  • Apologies for Messes up Spellings… typing on Phone is cumbersome… :oops: :mrgreen:

  • @Dan
    I have a challenge for you…

    Perhaps you can refresh the article from bleachreports posted by warchyca and the one posted by someone recently regarding the finacial state of MUFC where they highlighted the impact that Fergie had in stabilising MUFC finances, and write an article for us to disect. I th8nk those 2 articles goes a long way to explain our current situation. It gives us the BIG picture.

    I don’t want to butter you up, but you are one of the best article writers and I am sure you can put it into proper perspective.

    • Will look into it mate, cheers for the suggestion.

      • @Dan:

        Dan,

        I am replying to your previous post, because I can’t do that there.

        I know the club lost 600 million because of the takeover. That’s why I dislike the Glazers, and I believe I share that dislike with every United fan.

        But, give credit where credit is due. Glazers way of dealing with the financial and commercial side of affairs brought HUGE benefits to this club. And no, we wouldn’t have had 70 million to spend if there hadn’t been their way of business in place. That sum would have been considerable less.

        I repeat, we can blame Glazers for many things, especially in the first 4-5 years of their tenure. However, they’re thinking progressively and doing excellent job nowadays. If only we had manager with similar, progressive mindset (we had him until 6 months ago), most of problems would be solved.

  • And as I noticed that a lot of people are posting formations, here is mine:

    …………………………De Gea…………………………….
    …Rafael…….Smalling……………….Jones……………Evra…
    ……………………….Fellaini…………………………….
    …Januzaj…….Rooney………………….Mata…………Young….
    …………………………RVP……………………………….

    Attacking mindset, developing youth in defence, pressing, wingers capable of cutting inside and shooting, and creativity in the center of the field. Of course, Kagawa should also be prominent here, rotating with Rooney, Mata and RVP, and playing instead of Mata in the Champions League.

    I sincerely think that this team can score three goals against every other team in the world.

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