Mar 27
International roundup and a link fest
The distraction that was the international break is over and, hopefully, there aren’t any injury worries. I must apologise for not giving you your daily fix of United news yesterday, thanks to my laptop’s AC adapter conking out. This post is from a borrowed computer, so I can’t be long. Hence today will be more of a link post. The good part though, will be that I will try to update this post through the day, as and when I gain access to a system for even few minutes.
My brand new AC adapter should be in tomorrow to give a new lease of life to my currently comatose laptop. So regular service should resume by then. So here we go with interesting links for the day:
- Old news, but Anderson is, indeed, loving life at United — in case people were wondering. I couldn’t find links to his performance (for Brazil) yesterday. Anyone who could post something would be greatly commended for their efforts.Update: Some words of praise from Dunga, for Anderson and Pato.
- Rooney remained isolated up top, while Fabio Capello was happy despite defeat to France. Is it a realization that little could be done with a side shorn of anything resembling creativity? Actually, anything other than lumping hopeful balls to players who aren’t known for their heading ability.
- ‘Wounded’ Terry wants armband back — and they say it’s a team game. Update: And as an aside, here’s a good rant on Terry.
- Skipper Neville, in typical Neville style, gives his forthright thoughts on his chances of making it back to the side this season — here’s a hint, it’s not very good.
- Michael Barnes out on month’s loan. [via Ahmed]
- Mikel’s documents found to be forged. How does it concern us, you ask? Well, it could force us to pay back some of the £ 12 million back to Chelsea
That’s it for now, I think. Hopefully when I find the time, and a computer, I will add to these links.
Keep checking back and, of course, ranting.
Related items from Red Rants:
- Possebon Loan ‘Cancelled’; Returns to United?
- An Interesting Monday Roundup
- Brief International Roundup + Berbatov’s Fitness Regime
- Quiet Monday Roundup
- Giggs and Brown to Remain Reds | Ex-Reds Clash | Wenger Threat | Takeovers And Other Such Nonsense
Tags: Daily Roundup
March 27th, 2008 at 9:51
Selected John Terry quotes:
“If they don’t want an England captain fighting for England in every way possible, fighting to win the ball and come out of the tackle, fighting for the cause, then that’s down to them to make that decision.
“If Mr Capello wants someone who is going to go out there, desperate to win and to do everything it takes, then I’ll be his right choice. If not, that’s down to him to make the decision.â€
Is it me or is Mr Terry insinuating that no other England captain, including Rio, fights hard and is desparate to win?
“I want to keep that armband,†Terry said. “I am really passionate about it. It means so much to me, to my family. Mr Capello is a clever man and a great manager and he’ll give it to the right person.â€
Says it all, doesn’t it? I say, give the captaincy to John Terry for the sake of his family…
March 27th, 2008 at 11:02
Who cares about Terry Red75,
He is just a sook like every one of his chelsea team mates.
Personally, i’d prefer a Non United Captain. But as it is.. I think Rio would be a perfect choice for Captain.
March 27th, 2008 at 12:55
They should give Terry the armband and make evryone happy (I do not suppose Rio’s family will be hurt too much – they might be reasonable people) because no matter who is captain, England are still not going to win anything in the near future – as much as we all want them to.
March 27th, 2008 at 13:53
Did anyone catch Sky’s interview of Rio’s dad before the game? He was so chuffed about his son being captain. I’d hazard a guess that it meant a lot to Rio’s family as well.
March 27th, 2008 at 14:16
Michael Barnes out on loan, and out of the club by the end of the season.
Oh, and a short rant on JT’s strop.
Worryingly though, no signs of the Brown saga resolving itself.
March 27th, 2008 at 14:23
Anderson came on as a secondhalf sub and played well enuf to earn the praise of his manager. he was constantly jeered by those good4nothin ARSE… fans. but his ability to keep calm under all the abuse is what impressed Coach Dunga.
March 27th, 2008 at 15:50
How, in a country that produces so many fine football players, is England so thoroughly unable to produce strikers of any merit? Watching you guys in the world cup was absolutely tragic. Your offense pretty much consisted of watching Frank Lampard hit shots 30 feet over the crossbar, sulk, turn and walk away. England is phenomenal in the middle of the field and in defense, but you have a striker, Rooney, who can’t score and you are without a definitive No. 1 goaltender(by definitive I mean good). At this rate the USA will win their first world cup before England wins its second. I kid, England, I kid.
March 27th, 2008 at 16:12
Even though Brazil scored from a mistake, it was Andersons 50-yard pass that made them get nervous. He got the assist!
March 27th, 2008 at 18:24
Did anyone else catch the comeback by the Dutch against Austria? 3-0 down in 35min, and then come back to win 4-3!
And who is the hero? Klaas-Jan Huntelaar!! 2 goals and 1 assist.
SAF better take notice and sign this guy, you can say all you want about the Dutch league, but this guy produces in every game he plays in.
March 27th, 2008 at 18:32
Patrick; You are actually overrate the ability of England players, especially their forwards. Face it, England have only a handful of players that one could consider international class, yet alone world class. Rio, Gerrard and Joe Cole are world class talents. Rooney used to be but not anymore. Terry, Lampard, Beckham also used to be but are not anymore. Bottom line is that the older players have declined and no new players in the English game have stepped up in the way the Agerro’s, Messi’s, Huntelaar’s, Fabregas’s, Ronaldo’s, Benzema’s, Nani’s, Pato’s, Gomez’s and Bojan’s have for their respected countries. Every major footballing nation has some youth or players in their low 20’s who are beginning to really assert themselves in their or other domestic leagues.
England for the most part have a handful of decent players but no budding or current young players who are world class talents. This is what it takes to be a top international power. You need to be able to refresh a national program with enthusiastic and very talented young players. Is Carrick, Bentley, Agbondalhor, Ashley Young, Micah Richards, Theo Wolcott, etc the answer to England’s woes? I don’t think so.
The other big problem is that none of those players mentioned above other than Walcott and our own Carrick play for the “Big 4″. Part of developing to be an international and world class player is training, growing up with, learning from and playing with such talent as well as top quality managers with international experience. Just playing against this kind of talent only helps so much. England’s continued quality in the international tournaments is dependent on the quality development of promising home grown talent. This will not happen playing for Wigan, Aston Villa, Middlesbrough, Derby, West Ham and 15 of 20 BPL teams. I consider Spurs above the rest. These teams try but they don’t have the finances or the depth in talent to succeed at the top level consistently. Their coaches and managers are mostly not savvy enough or technically proficient enough to acknowledge the needs of special players. Also, their negative and out dated tactics offer limited learning to young players and also smother any creativity they may have.
Many things have to be done to resurrect England back in to world prominence, but the BPL and the Big 4 will have none of that. They are all money hungry and devoted to winning at all costs and may the local development be damned. Does Chris Eagles, Danny Welbeck, Danny Simpson and others on the reserve team at United really have a chance of making the main squad as a regular starter? They all have great talent but United will always find a European or South American player who can do more and do it now. Signing Anderson, Nani, teenage twins from Brazil and going after the Manucho’s of the world is just proof positive that the territorial rules governing the signing of players in England is keeping many of them from ever making it or being signed on by big clubs, and thus getting a chance to learn from true footballing masters. If I was a young player, I’d rather learn the Arsenal or Man Utd way rather than the style and limited imagination that it takes to be a player for Wigan, Birmingham or Bolton. England and it’s major domestic league is to blame for it’s own country’s fall and demise on the international scene. The have traded in national team success and growth for Champions League glory for a select few domestic league teams. Being a Man Utd fan as well as a supporter of Team Germany, I shouldn’t care, but I do. Other than when they play Germany, I always want and wish for England to do better. I may be Canadian but if I had a chance to live anywhere it would be in England because I love and respect everything about the country. It’s a shame more Englishman who have the power to change things for the better don’t feel the same way. This is why as a country your media as well as the fans make mountains out of mole hills when you do something well.
My God I’ll never forget the the way your country felt and reacted to the 5-1 victory you had against Germany in 2001. BIG FRAKKEN DEAL! As I recall, England had an early exit out of the World Cup the following year while Germany made the final. You guys make so much out of nothing. A friendly win over Switzerland feels like another country winning the 3rd place match at a major tourney. Lowered Expectations mixed with a dose of delusions of grandeur. It speaks volumes for the England team over the past 15 years. Since that Germany game in 2001 Germany have retooled their team and have brought on many new players with great ability and a new style, outlook and mentality that has rejuvenated the nations interest in their national program. England still have players from that 2001 team playing for them and just before Capello took over, you had even more. Quite funny. You live in the past and yet you have nothing to look up to from the past except a world title won 42 bloody years ago. Get over it and move on. Sorry for ranting and getting a bit off topic but England’s football program is so broken, I have serious doubts whether Capello can save it.
March 27th, 2008 at 19:05
Now that really gets up my feckin nose Grognard!!!!. Lets wait until the qualifying tournament for the next world cup – ‘cos I would put my life on it England will qualify. And don’t tell me to dream on, cos unlike what you accused me of yesterday, I AM A PATRIOT, and I believe you will see magic and new blood in the England camp in next few years. You just keep on loving the krouts mate, and we will just bide our time and wait and see. I mean really – you got me fired up now Grognard LOL.
March 27th, 2008 at 20:44
Grognard, some good points raised, but ultimately I think you fall well short.
England do have world-class players, and to limit these to Joe Cole, Rio, and Gerrard is foolish. Players such as Rooney, Lampard, Terry are consistently among the top performers in the Premier League- the best league in the world, especially on the basis of the CL; despite your truthful words that English clubs prefer foreigners, England is pretty much the only good footballing country in the world that retains the vast majority of its players within its league. And before you come back with your “they’re all at the bottom 15 clubs of the league” you’re neglecting those, and there are many, that aren’t.
The captains of United, Chelsea, and Liverpool are all English. At those three clubs note also Michael Carrick, Owen Hargreaves, Paul Scholes, Wesley Brown, Rio Ferdinand, Joe cole, ashley cole, wayne bridge, frank lampard, shaun wright phillips, Wayne Rooney, peter crouch, jamie carragher, ben foster, doubtless others who I forget, and many young players- danny simpson and our boys, the likes of scott sinclair at chelsea etc.
The very fact that carrick, lennon, wright-phillips, ashley young, agbonlahor etc couldnt get near the team last night is a testament to how good our players our. The fact that the pathetic scouse carragher felt the need to sulk and retire from international football because even with a defensive crisis he couldnt get in the team shows a similar point.
I’m not saying there isn’t a problem with English football. In fact, my words exacerbate the problem further. If we have such good players, why are we so shite? I believe the last few managers have been bad. And lets not put too much on yesterday’s defeat- France are a good team, and Rooney up front on his own will never get too much joy out of Gallas and Thuram. We do need a better big striker, granted. But other than that we should be pretty much covered in terms of positions. The problem lies deeper. And I, for one, have no idea what it is.
March 27th, 2008 at 20:51
grognard im saying this in the kindess regard, please be quiet on this subject.
March 27th, 2008 at 23:57
england only retain their english players because no other country wants them. ONE player of the england squad has a career outside of england. That says it all doesnt it? while the south americans, africans, other european countries produce talent, time and time again…
The problem with England are;
1. The fans- they put pressure on the england team and make a mockery of their own players in some cases. like when the time david bentley was booed. THERE WAS NO NEED.
2. the media- The media grab little stories and like grognard said, OVERHYPES englands “achievements”
3. there is no consistency, apart from being consistently shit!
4.no teamwork, since when was the last time you saw a nice one-two which leads to a goal?
5.OVER RELIANCE on certain players eg, David Beckham, Wayne Rooney and how they were blamed for englands cup exits
There are so many areas in which needs to be improved, one man alone cannot achieve.
March 28th, 2008 at 0:54
Craig; I’m just so concerned that you have such a low opinion or value on your life. If they don’t qualify based on the group they are in, they should be put on the wall and all shot except for the United contingent which will be forced to do push ups, and 50 laps around the track.
March 28th, 2008 at 1:00
And Craig, it’s KRAUTS, not krouts. If you are going to be politically incorrect, at least spell the derogatory term correctly. That’s just not cricket. I got you all fired up. Good! Now go to the training ground and show the England lot what it looks like to be fired up, passionate and a real patriot. It may just rub off on them. And if so, I’m glad I was of service. In the mean time enjoy watch my wonderful krauts destroy the competition at EURO 08. Christ, it will be like playing home games. If we can avoid Italy, then it is theirs. Italy is Germany’s bogie side. All of Europe and south America is England’s bogie. Perhaps that’s mean, but I call it as i see it. Talk about delusions of grandeur. English should talk the talk not when and if England do something positive, but when.
March 28th, 2008 at 1:11
There are a number of major problems with the English national team and I feel Grognard and Chris have hit on quite a few of them. However I feel the main reason for England’s current problems is a deep rooted cultural issue, prevalent all the way down to grass roots football.
What do people in England normally prefer, the blood and thunder and last ditch tackles of Terry and Carragher or the calm and composure of Ferdinand and Woodgate? Do they prefer the Hollywood players like Gerrard and Lampard or the dependable, consistent passers like Carrick, Barry and Scholes. There is a glaring deficiency in the technical ability of England players. They are nervous in possession and scared to show for the ball. They are often too eager to make pointless forward runs when they should be dropping into space to give the man on the ball options and fail to see the value of steady passing rhythm.
Essentially, with the ball at their feet, they are often no match for their continental counterparts. What is more alarming is that the likes of Croatia, Macedonia and Paraguay have shown themselves to more comfortable on the ball than England in recent times.
We are fortunate to have a selection of England’s best in that regards (Carrick, Rooney, Rio and Scholes) and elsewhere at club level in Europe the issue is diluted by foreign players. Gerrard’s failings can be counterbalanced by Alonso and Mascherano, Lampard’s by Makelele, Essien and Ballack etc. Concentrate too many English players of low technical ability together and the result is less effective than it should be in theory, given the quality of players available.
How do you solve it, I don’t know. It requires a change in the win at all costs attitude that is so prevalent in younger levels of football and a complete overhaul of training techniques. One thing is for certain, it is not a short term fix and all Capello can do is make the best of a bad job.
March 28th, 2008 at 1:21
Dan; I’m responding in the kindest manner I know. Sorry but I must decline. I have as much a right to make my views known. Perhaps the lack of outside views and fresh new wave ideas is why England’s team and it’s development is in such shite. Relax and go have a Guinness and stop overreacting over nothing more than somebody’s views about bloody football. I doubt you are a hooligan so stop veiling threats of anger. Respect my views. You don’t have to agree with them. Contrary to what you my think, England is my second favorite international football side and so how they do matters to me. I’m just not so bloody sensitive that I cannot handle some criticism over my team. Get a grip already, JEEZ!
March 28th, 2008 at 1:37
JB; I really like your point about English players lacking the technical ability and continental smarts to play the game at the highest level.
Sorry Sam but you are looking at the glass half full I’m afraid. The reason there are no English player playing abroad and only a handful of great ones have ever gone is because they are not technically efficient enough to handle the continental game. Stop wearing blinders. Most English players are crap in comparison to Italian, French, German, Dutch, Spanish and Portuguese. Come on already! You think that the EPL is the greatest league in the world? Based on it’s British talent? four clubs make the EPL, and all the EPL offers Europe is what those four teams give. They have the big money to do it. The Italian and Spanish leagues as well as even the German and French are far superior and ultimately more competitive from top to bottom. Perhaps their top 4 aren’t as good but the rest are more than a match for England’s remaining wannabes and bottom feeders. Get your head out of the sand. You’ve got more than just a few bad coaches, you have as JB expressed so well, a CULTURAL problem that is deep rooted and with many bad roots affecting the growth of the product. A mass overhaul similar to the one started by Juergen Klinsmann with Germany’s national side is necessary. It will take years but sometimes it has to start at the very top, because if they aren’t willing to change and incorporate new ways of thinking, than how are the little folk supposed to do so. Capello has the right ideas and he needs time and all the resources he wants. Perhaps then and only then will mild success filter downwards into the traing, coaching and development of youth.
March 28th, 2008 at 3:46
bollox to england,
“we are the mighty red army, the pride of the north
we hate the scousers, and the cockneys of course
and leeds”
March 28th, 2008 at 5:01
@grognard Beg to differ : England do have a pool of talent but what they were lacking was a manager who can handle the ego of star players and they have it now in Capello. he shud nt be afraid to axe players if they dont play well and am sure he will do that. rooney is not a lone striker and we united fans know it better….rooney – gerard – Rio – terry – joe cole can compete with a ronaldo – quaresma – nani – maniche …So lets wait till capello open his arsenal….adn then comment on it …last but not least medias and fans overrate many players and the pressure is mounting on such so called big players..lets understand walcott is a kid and he is yet to mature….so the fans and media do have a role in england current pathetic situation
March 28th, 2008 at 5:37
BOND; “So lets wait till capello open his arsenal”. If you consider an arsenal to be a few sticks and a sock filled with manure. I love that all you guys love to blame the poor managers as if they are the ones with all the mistakes. The game is not just tactics and strategy. At the end of the day the players have to come out on to the pitch and just play. Problem is England don’t have the horses for the race and the sooner many of you realize this, the sooner Capello and the FA can move towards correcting the problem. English players are not good enough and they have not been good enough for 30 years. They need to learn more of the subtle technical aspects of the game to truly elevate their games. But then again, the coaches are idiots to (you are correct) and all they know how to teach is 10 men behind the ball, the long ball and crossing.
March 28th, 2008 at 7:26
I wud agree to one point …English clubs and country play long ball game..some body from deep defense give a very long ball to the strikers and if they have the ability to get they can or its gone…this is a shit way of playing….We united play this, Arsenal adn chelsea play this…only exception is the liverpool in europe adnd i belive thats the reason behind their successful run in europe..hows cappello tactics ? am sure its going to be negative tactics…but still he is a winner and he will make it…am not saying they are gona win the WC but they will surely do better ..
March 28th, 2008 at 7:41
Actually Bond, I’d disagree with you over Man Utd and Arsenal playing the long ball a lot. They much more prefer the ground passing game ever since Beckham left for Madrid. The type of players they have now has encouraged Fergie to play a more continental style. That is not to say they never play the long ball, but if you compare them from the early 90′ to now, there is no competition. As for Capello, he is Italian so he stresses organization, short passing , possession and defense first. He probably would prefer a 4-2-3-1 formation if he had the proper type players to succeed in it. I’m not sure he has. The funny thing is that England would be a much better team if Scholes came back and if Carrick also was first choice. Even though he is old and even I am questioning his ability to be consistent anymore, Scholes would offer all the missing ingredients for them in the midfield. Scholes would have been a great player in Italy because his style so suited their style. Carrick is a similar to Scholes but his passing is so exquisite and he can surprise with the occasional long ball gem.
Will Capello eventually see the light and make Carrick a long term regular?
March 28th, 2008 at 10:49
Wow, lots of big criticism coming out at the old English squad here! I think people forget what a fine line seperates victory and loss in international football. To berate the English squad is a little unfair IMO, and also a bit biased. You can quote history all you want, and do I agree there seems to be a lack of belief in the England camp, but putting down comments like our players aren’t technically gifted and can’t pass is just rubbish.
Look at England’s actual record, particularly before McClaren took over. Never really got blown out, consistently won, qualified for everything and got knocked out against very good teams in very tense matches. Think back to the last Euro, a referee with balls gives Sol Campbell his goal despite the dirty diving Portuguese keeper and maybe we don’t have this dicussion.
To say that a midfield of Cole, Lampard, Beckham and Hargo or Gerrard can’t pass a football as well as anyone is just crap. And if they’d had that midfield in their last few qualifiers maybe they woudl have made it through, but their squad was in tatters for a few of those matches.
On Weds we saw more or less England’s first XI in the first half, and while they didn’t create loads of chances, I thought for a good 30 minute spell they completely outplayed the French squad, at home, with tidy, posession football. If you’re so critical of England, where’s the anger at Portugal (lost to Greece) or Holland (scraped by against a weak Austrian team).
It’s a myth that England are world beaters. But it’s no less a myth that they’re not a very, very talented first team. And for the first time in 2 years they have a coach that might be able to get them somewhere. Be a bit more optimistic!!!
March 28th, 2008 at 11:28
I want to start by saying I have always been a fan of England
I personaly blame the managers and to some point Gerrard
He is a piece of crap player, I dont like him at all, he is one of the most overrated players Ive ever seen, but thats my opinion anyway.
And the manager of England seems to always pick him in the starting XI when there are many others who deserve to play in his place.
I also blame the bias and the extent of rivalries between english teams that it affects theyre team work in the England shirt making them play like crap together.
Having said all that I hope Capello fixes these problems because English players have the potential to compete for world cups and Euros but it needs a little hard work.
March 28th, 2008 at 11:31
Grognard – Yup to a certain extent Arsenal doesnt play ! but if you say we dont play it then i may not agree with that..as most of our play goes in that way unless we steal the ball from the opponents and then attack or in case of counter attack… how many times times this seasn we have seen Rio adn Vidic giving long balls to roony …as long as we get 3 points we need not be bothered abt it ! on capellos formation 4231 england has gotr the right players but it depends on Capello whether he needs to go with them or not….u can have the CF as crouch / Ashton / Defoe / Owen and the 3 as rooney – gerard – joecole….then 2 u gotta carrick,hargo,barry…so he has the players….
March 28th, 2008 at 12:09
hmmm, Grognard i agree with you via the issue of the English making a mole hill out of notjing btu again i disagree with you when it comes to the issue of wprld class. I mean what rationale do you use to call someone world class. For the 20 years i’ve watched and supported soccer, its the press that makes one world class. If they the press woke up one morning and called you a world class fan “that’s if it exists” the next day you’ll be refered to as a world “class fan” till you die!
in supplement Grognard, let the english press bother themselves not in the day to day running of soccer, then their team will perfome well. They always overhype their players and end up expecting much out of them yet they are middiocres for God’s sake with exception of the united players.
the fact that you give birth to a son doesnt mean you’ll always be better than him. Football was invented by the English but that doeant mean they’ll be the masters at it. They should try to erase that in their minds and think positive. Infact football was inveted in England and mastered in Brazil.
March 28th, 2008 at 13:00
For the first time im in agreememt with grognard.England is simply a poor team.Englishmen will not take such a comment lying down but its a fact.The technical abilities of the players is pretty much zero.Epl is the worst ito quality.Majority of clubs are branded heroic when they come 2 OT and play 11 defenders and force a draw.Watch other leagues and u’ll see why they are better.Blame the coaches all u want but the team he has 2 work with is rubbish.I hope england won’t qualify 4 2010 WC because they will bore people 2 comatose levels.Long balls and idiotic football with no creativity.What rubbish
March 28th, 2008 at 13:43
Grognard, (and Chris) I have taken my head out of the sand, taken off my blinkers, and tried looking at the glass half empty, but I still disagree with you. The fact is, people can have a difference of opinion.
Your response that English players are “not technically efficient enough” to play abroad is untrue. Look how desperate Bayern were to keep Hargreaves, who can’t even get into our first team at the moment. Beckham, once he got a kick up the arse, is widely regarded as having been the key factor in Real’s title winning resurgence last season- this when he was past his best. I know you accept there are a few exceptions, but the reason why there are only a few is because other players want to stay in England, not because continental clubs don’t want them, as Chris suggests. Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney, etc have all been courted on numerous occasions by the big Spanish/ Italian teams, and so have many other players from smaller clubs, who haven’t left because of money, in the main. The English league is the richest, that doesn’t automatically mean it is the best, but it explains why English players generally stay here, despite facing competition from imports.
My second point is on the Premier league. I still think it is better than any other league. It doesn’t just stand on four teams, either, though you do raise a good point there, and this season especially we seem to have an incredibly weak tail (Derby, Fulham, Birmingham etc)- mind you United lost to Bolton, scraped past Derby and Birmingham, Birmingham held Arsenal twice, etc. But I admit the bottom clubs in Spain etc are better than this. HOWEVER, I would argue that as a whole the EPL is better. As an example, take our beloved Diego Forlan. Aside from a few endearing moments, such as making the Scousers cry, he was appalling for us, and just couldn’t cope with English defences. For Villareal, and now Atletico Madrid, he is a star, banging in the goals all over the place. Again, I know this is merely an example, and you’d do well to point to players like Gravesen and Heinze who went the other way. But Gravesen was an Everton player who went to Real Madrid. A ludicrous signing at the time, and he was never going to make a huge impression with Zidane etc around. He did, though, do okay. Heinze, this season. He’s had a bit of an attitude problem and a sulk, of the “I want to be at Anfield” kind. We can discount people with attitude problems.
I enjoy it with my head out of the sand- I get to see things that much clearer!
March 28th, 2008 at 14:08
Grognard, if you want to get personal and correct peoples typos, perhaps you should take a look at your grammatical errors sometimes. Anyway, like I said, some of you ‘gobshites’ on this forum, might be eating your words by the time the world cup comes around. So I will reserve my further comments until then. I have FAITH in England, and believe we will come good. That’s my opinion, and posters on here who are full of verbal diarrhoea, will not change my mind. So you just go on supporting the KRAUTS, which terminology by the way, is no more pollitically incorrect, than is that of the Australians calling all us Brits ‘pommies’!. We don’t get all offended about it though, we are not that petty.
Anyway, nobody can prophesy the future outcome of teams in the next world cup tournament, so we wait and see. Maybe you will have the last laugh, maybe not!. I am English, I am a passionate patriot, I may have a lot of things I’d like to say about Our football team, BUT I REFUSE TO KICK THEM WHILE THEY ARE SO DOWN. Come on England, don’t listen to all the knockers, JUST DO IT LADS. Still think your ok though Grognard, but your opinions aren’t sacrosanct your know mate!.
March 28th, 2008 at 14:22
Sam – Well thought out post mate – I agree, you got some very good reasoning there!.
March 28th, 2008 at 14:54
Jay Wire – A poor team? Please. I’ll have to leave it to the next year to see if I’m correct, but I believe now we have an actual football manager, rather than FA’s media led idiot, you’ll see a dramatic difference in our record. Which, incidentally isn’t as bad as poeple make out.
As for the prem being crap compared to other leagues…wow..just wow. You’d of thought with all that silky skill and technique there’d be more than 1 italian, 1 spanish and 1 german team left in the CL wouldn’t you? Or this time last year? Oh. Thought so.
March 28th, 2008 at 15:01
Oh and in worse news, Fletcher buggerd his knee for Scotland and will miss about 6 weeks. Fortunately we do hvae a lot of depth in that department, but annoying nonetheless.
After seeing his display for England, do you think Fergie is going to consider Hargo a bit more in the run in…?
March 28th, 2008 at 17:06
a match fit foster
brown
rio
terry
bridge(cole cant cross to save his life)
hargo
carrick
gerrard
rooney
lampard/cole
ashton/crouch
that should be the english team, thats if we stick with 4-2-3-1.
March 28th, 2008 at 17:28
Dan, although that team does look like a good team, it doesn’t fit into a ‘fluid’ 4-2-3-1, which I assume that is. If it’s a rigid 4-2-3-1 then Gerrard and Lampard would be out of position, but then if its fluid Ashton or Crouch don’t have great movement which counteracts the fluidity, plus Lampard and Gerrard still wouldn’t really be used to that formation, and it wouldn’t suit them. I’d swap Gerrard with Bentley(even though he’s not international class, at least definitely not yet) and then definitely have Joe Cole, both of these players and Rooney would make it much more fluid. But then that means you’re leaving out Gerrard and Lampard, which I doubt Capello would ever do. And although Cole can’t cross, hardly any of your players can head, and Cole is a much better defender than Bridge.
March 28th, 2008 at 17:54
Sam; Are you honestly going to take credit for Owen Hargreaves too. Jeez! Talk about desperation. Owen Hargreaves is a born Canadian who at the age of 16 signed a contract with German giants Bayern Munich. He was developed by and played for Bayern up until this year. His parents were from England and so he decided he wanted to play for England because Canada as we all know, is football shite. All his technical ability is German grown so in fact, he is more German in his play than he will ever be English. That is why he was so outstanding in the World Cup and why Man Utd wanted him so badly. And the reason he has not been able to get in to the first team as regularly is that he has developed a chronic knee tendon problem that doesn’t allow him to play all the time and that has hindered his play. Hopefully a big rest in the summer will cure him of this problem for next year. And the EPL is a weak league. THe minnows will always knock of a giant on occasion because no matter how good you are, it is very difficult to defeat a team playing ten men in their own box. One chance occasionally goes their way and you have a 1-0 upset. But how many times have English minnows actually given the Big 4 a good thrashing 3-0. 4-0 3-1 etc? Never is the answer. They don’t have the talent or technical imagination to do such damage. In Spain, Italy and Germany poor teams occasionally beat good teams in that manner because at least in their home park, they are forced to play attacking football which on the day may surprise a big club that is going through the motions or fatigued. Two weeks ago I watched my Bayern team get totally humiliated 2-0 by Rostcok. The score actually was complimentary because Rostock played very well and deserved 1 or 2 more goals. This happens in a balanced league. look at the talent that Nayern have, yet they have not run away with anything partly because they have had problems beating lower clubs away from home. But then, so have Hamburg, Bremen and Schalke. Barcelona and Real Madrid have been beaten by minnows on more than one occasion this year, and not the English way either.
Bottom line is that 12 of the 20 British teams in the EPL and the rest of the divisions below play a rubbish antiquated style of football that doesn’t cut it on the world stage. Diego Forlan couldn’t deal with the pressure at United and the old style of footy we were playing then. He is more comfortable with the continental style where the ball is played slowly through the middle. He would probably do better for us today than 5 years ago, as Fergie has adapted the club’s style of play. So although your head may not be in the sand, you are looking at things through rose colored glasses. Thats ok though, you certainly have that right and I do wish I could agree with you but my experience and knowledge from watching all the leagues I mentioned tells me that I am right. But then again, that’s for others to debate.
Please don’t take the head in the sand comment to seriously, it was not meant in an insulting manner, yet you did mention it twice so I think you may have taken it that way. No offense was meant by it other than pointing out a little nativity on your part when regarding the technical merits and quality of the EPL in comparison to it’s Euro counterparts.
March 28th, 2008 at 18:04
Beachryan; I made a point that the reason there are four EPL clubs left in the Champions Leeague is because all 4 clubs are loaded with all star foreign talent. So try not to give the English and the EPL too much credit for that. And where was this lack of modesty 4 or 5 years ago when it was either Spanish or Italian teams every year for the past 20 seasons?
Craig, Stop hiding from your racist remark. Krauts is offensive even to a non German like me. I’m fine with your patriotic-like passion and your allegiance but how dare you put me down for my allegiance to a country other than the one you cheer for? And I don’t like name calling and being referred to as a “GOBSHITE”, so Piss off! With that said, no hard feelings as of this moment and lets keep it civil in the future. We all have a right to disagree but lets at least respect the other poster’s as being as equally intelligent if not more so than us.
March 28th, 2008 at 18:24
Why should Erikson be blamed 4 useless players.He came 2 england after winning serie A with a non-traditional champs team.You give him a gung-ho midfielder ie Gerrard 2 be the creative heartbeat of the team and wingers whose gameplan is to cross “into the area” at all costs and players who only know the 442.Btw epl is the only league where the top 4 are a reg trademark with a 99 year lease renewable every season.All top clubs are managed by foreigners and the crap ones by englishmen which shows that its the english mentality which is junk
March 28th, 2008 at 18:27
Grognard, like I said, what you and the rest of the pollitically correct brigade consider racist, I don’t. The Brits were called ‘Limeys’ by the Americans and Canadians, and ‘pommies’ by the Australians. We do not get offended. I have German friends, and call them sour – Krauts, and they are okay with it – as I am when they, in jesting, call us Brits names. People in Britain are sick of political correctness which is ruining our country. Anyway mate, I don’t want to get into trouble with the administrators of this forum, for getting into political debates, that is not what this forum is for. So I will not get into this any further.
I would like you to re-read my post, and tell me where I have put you down for supporting Germany Grognard. Because it doesn’t matter to me who you or others support. If that is what you read from my post, then that wasn’t the intent of it. I was just saying you go on supporting the Germans, and nothing more sinister than that. Like I said, you are a red hot debator, and there is nothing wrong with that. You tell me not to get personal, and that after you accusing me of racism – something of a dichotomy there don’t you think.
England for the next world cup anybody???????. I jest not – lol. I am the eternal optimist!.
March 28th, 2008 at 18:41
Grognard: I thought I saw the rose tinted glasses coming! Don’t worry, I didn’t take the head in the sand thing badly, just, as an English student, I saw an opportunity for a bit of fun with it…As I do with this- “a little nativity” on my part?! I assure you, my thoughts are far from the Christmas story! (Don’t worry, I do know you meant naivety, I’m not going to get hung up about a typo.)
Fair enough over Hargreaves, but he is still an English player. Also, I accept the point about the bottom clubs being worse in England elsewhere- I did admit that earlier, and the bit you took issue with was a point I just mentioned on the side. Let’s not forget, though, that it is far harder for a smaller club to beat, convincingly, teams like United, Arsenal, Chelsea than the big sides in Germany. No offence, I can see you’re a big Bayern fan, but they’re not in the same league (at the moment, showed especially by their being in the UEFA cup) as the big English sides. I don’t think Rostock would beat United 2-0, whilst deserving more. Then again, I may be wrong. Another point I’d like to make here is the UEFA cup this season. Fair enough, no English sides left now. But Spurs and Everton were both extremely unlucky to go out. And, lest we forget, Bolton (and please don’t just say ‘they play boring football’) beat Atletico Madrid, who’re pretty high up in Spain.
March 28th, 2008 at 18:46
A few months ago, someone says how much he hates England and that he doesnt give a shit what England team does. But now… wow.. suddenyly has so much to say how improve the same shit that he doesnt care.
March 28th, 2008 at 18:51
Oh and also, since you declare an emphatic “Never” to the result of the big four losing 3-1 (yes, that was one of the examples you gave, and is the same margin of defeat as your Bayern match), I’d like reply with an equally emphatic “Well, Sometimes- even this season”.
Reading 3-1 Liverpool
Sorry, know I’m being picky, it just had to be said, if only for another laugh at the dippers.
March 28th, 2008 at 20:21
im sorry grognard but i remember you saying you were living/from canada and now your saying you support germany? which 1 is it?
March 28th, 2008 at 20:36
Sam you bringing up Hargreaves and Beckham as examples of success stories outside England is interesting because when you take their backgrounds into consideration..Hargreaves was originally based in Canada and granted he has done well in the Bundesliga, his performance since coming to us has been less than whats expected of him as some may or may not agree. And Becks for all his great passing is sometimes more similar to a continental player and he covered up his lack of movement with ball with his crossing when he was with us.
Coming back to the cultural issue, i dont believe a mass overhaul is going to occur anytime soon and more realistically the pace of the English game is what has drawn a lot of the leagues popularity and a direct change from that would not be as helpful as it is made out to be. Also a lot of very skilled english players get fadded out namely because of the current manner the league is played. But I belive the influx of foreign players have only increased the need for technicality. Successful teams like us, chelsea, pool, everton,gunners, villa ,to some extent spurs, Birgiham city and portsmouth play much better passing games than they did last couple of seasons…all have lead to the rise of a crop of english midfielders who are more similar to their continental counterparts. I think its high time capello turn to players such as carrick, barry, o’hara(spurs), johnson etc who like to play along the ground than over their heads in national games
March 28th, 2008 at 20:40
Guys – we need a new topic
March 28th, 2008 at 20:58
Craig; “I was just saying you go on supporting the Germans, and nothing more sinister than that.” Sorry Craig but this was your quote; “So you just go on supporting the KRAUTS. If you have read most of my posts over the past six months you will have known that I above all am not politically correct. There is a difference between politically correct and racially insensitive. You are hiding behind your “kraut” friends when you think that does not offend a German who happens to not be your friend. If I knew you well and you called me a Greaser because I’m Greek, I’d deck you before you got the e and the r out. But seriously though Craig, it’s not that big a deal. Just be a little more racially sensitive. As for the rest of the politically correct stuff, other than making fun of one’s handicaps, all is fair, so knock yourself out. That of course does not count for references to Liverpool fans as Scousers, or Arsenal fans as Gooners. That’s all fair because lets face it, we really hate those bastards and they are all total frakken shite..
March 28th, 2008 at 21:04
wow and now you say your greek, you should keep your story solid and straight like are defence.
March 28th, 2008 at 21:05
Dan; I have explained before that although I am from Canada, I have been a Germany and to lesser degree supporter of Greece all for most of my life. My heritage is Greek and so there is loyalty there but my heart is with Germany because my first exposure to the game was watching Germany defeat the mighty Dutch in the World cup Final of 1974. I then went to Greece on vacation and was surprised to know that my two cousins supported Bayern Munich and were big Subutteo players. Suffice to say, they opened up a new world for me as I fell in love with football. My favorite players were the Beckenbauer’s, Mueller’s, Maier’s, Breitner’s, etc. As a young kid, their play and style just captured my imagination and thus was born an unbreakable bond with Bayern and Germany. To my father’s chagrin I might add. He like most of your fathers or grandfathers fought against the German’s in WW2, so he was not to pleased with my choice for favorite teams. Then again his favorite team was Brazil so that was a bit hypocritical don’t you think? Anyway, there you have it.
March 28th, 2008 at 21:06
Ahmed; I agree, we need a new topic so rather than just mentioning that mate, come up with one.
March 28th, 2008 at 21:10
I really don’t get your remarks Dan. I am a Greek/Canadian who was born in Canada and who supports Germany, Manchester United and Bayern Munich. Am I supposed to be pigeon holed into some stereotypical model of football and racial purity? I am Canadian and my favorite teams are the Canadian “wankers” national side and the Vancouver “bleeping toossers” Whitecaps. Am I supposed to limit my allegiance to one border and one language? Jeez Louise!
March 28th, 2008 at 21:14
To be fair Grognard, it is fairly typical behaviour (in Europe anyway) to give your national team your allegiance no matter how inept they are. Not to say theres anything wrong with your choices, they just might seem unusual to some.
March 28th, 2008 at 21:19
done, and match preview will be up tomorrow morning as well (seeing that we have an evening kickoff)
btw, anyone seen this and this? I know we have our problems, but quite often they are nothing compared to what other clubs are going through.
Would you take our debt over Liverpool’s current ownership crisis? Hmmm…
Or you guys could try explaining why Carrick talks so much to the press
March 28th, 2008 at 21:22
well not to be rude, but i learnt that you support 1 club( and should be your home town but that doesnt really matter) and your country it does not matter how crap your country is you still support them during the highs and lows. there is a term for you grognard and thats glory-hunter, im not saying you are one, but others might.
March 28th, 2008 at 21:32
[Dan]
That depends mate. What would be a better question is this: If United, by some quirk of fate (heaven forbid), get relegated would Grognard or any of you still support the team. There is nothing wrong in choosing to start supporting a team, but would you continue to support it through the worst of times? That’s the question. And it is a valid question to ask a fan. Just like fans expect commitment from players shouldn’t a fan reciprocate a similar emotion?
What do you think, Grognard?
March 28th, 2008 at 21:38
i would be extremely pissed and would be screaming swear words for days, but yes i would scrape through and still support them. Touch wood.
March 28th, 2008 at 21:39
Again, there is not compulsion that one must support one’s own country’s sport team, although more often than not, one tends to emotionally connect with one’s country. It’s in the mental make up. It is however all upto the individual to choose to support his team. That said, one can’t expect another person to support his own country and take the moral high ground.
A fan can even change allegiances to which team he supports — after all it’s his own free will — but that would call into question his own opinions he forms on the game because they may lose credibility in front of other fellow fans. Because if he changes teams like he changes his clothes, he’s really not too passionate about the game.
March 28th, 2008 at 21:48
Grognard, I don’t want a full scale fight with you mate, but my aunt lived in Germany for two years, and we all spent quite a bit of time visiting there. We always teased the Germans about being sour-krauts, and nobody was offended. I suppose it depends on the spirit you say things. As for going about decking people for saying something you believe is racist or offensive, you will be decking a lot of people mate!. You DID say it was politically incorrect calling somebody a kraut, but hey I’m tired of this whole thing now. So say what you like, and think what you like about it, you won’t be getting and further response from me.
Come on England, remember the 3 Lions on your shirt, and get roaring. We are with you all the way, well some of us anyway.
Ahmed, sorry mate, I am glad of any new threads you put up – thank you.
March 28th, 2008 at 22:10
Craig; I’ve got no problem with you mate. so just relax OK. Nobody is going to be decking anybody. And yes it does depend on the spirit that one says things. However, that does not always come through online, now does it? Still, no hard feelings and lets just forget about the misunderstanding.
As for you Dan; your post #54 bloody well offends me greatly mate and you should know better. Red Ranter put it best so I will leave it at that. Still, you have a real attitude and way of thinking which you feel others are obligated to conform to. I may be opinionated but I do not ever bully people into feeling that it is my way or the highway. I’ll just debate them. You hit on very personal and unnecessary areas and it was way out of line. I especially don’t limit my allegiance to my original surroundings as that is a very narrow and unworldly view of things. It’s being narrow minded and territorial. I’m Canadian and we generally don’t think that way, unless we talk about hockey. So that is our cross to bare.
March 28th, 2008 at 22:31
[Grognard]
But how about the answer to the question? Let me put it to you again: Since you are a self professed elitist as far as sport goes, if United were to be relegated or say finish outside the top four (or midtable) would you turn your back on them and head over to some other side?
March 28th, 2008 at 23:08
oh come on, i say my opinion and im bullying you? wow. you put your views across and you dont care because its “my opinion” so it entitles you to say anything but when i put my view across(and a fair view at that) im bullying you. im sorry but i cant see you supporting united if we got relegated at all which in my opinion(sounds doesn’t it?) does not make you a proper through and through fan, i mean if you cant support your own country because there crap, how are you going to face the embarrassment alone of being relegated or mid tabled? Do not say im bullying you or trying to be rude or im out of line. because its “my opinion”
March 28th, 2008 at 23:31
this whole debate about whether one should support a local team or not is pointless. For starters, it assumes that football is by definition territorial, which is a bit like saying that you should only eat what they serve in the shitty restaurant down the street and not go out to a better place that’s a couple of blocks away.
Territorialism imposes unnecessary restrictions and an artificial divide between fans of a same team. It’s a divisive tactic used to create the same type of arguments that we’re getting here.
Get over it. You don’t only become fans because you grow up with a team. If there’s no football team around you, you end up following someone else.
oh, and Dan…
im sorry but i cant see you supporting united if we got relegated at all which in my opinion(sounds doesn’t it?) does not make you a proper through and through fan, i mean if you cant support your own country because there crap, how are you going to face the embarrassment alone of being relegated or mid tabled?
That doesn’t make sense. The first part is fine, but that’s your opinion, and probably wrong (but Grog can confirm that, so let’s leave that bit to him). The second part is ridiculous though, and I’m assuming that’s your supporting argument.
You are assuming that nationalism is equal to being a true fan – again, the whole territorial thing again. Historically, nationalism / territorialism has been used by politicians to create social divides and muster people for war. The social bonds build through ideology (religion, freedom of speech, etc etc) and bonds build through community (tribal bonds) are far older and often stronger than contrived territorial bonds.
Grog could hold United closer to his heart than he holds the Canadian football team, and that attachment alone will see him follow through the hard times as well as rejoice in the good times.
There’s more to life than just living in the same town as your favourite club, you know.
March 29th, 2008 at 2:56
Thank you Ahmed. Very well said.
Red Ranter, I will always be a fan of Manchester United, Bayern Munich and Germany, even if they all hit rock bottom. Fortunately they all are very strong organizations so I can’t sse that happening in my lifetime, but you never know. Football allegiance for me is not the flavor of the day thing.
As for Canada, they have never really been on the football map and are well below even being referred to even as a minnow. As far as footy goes, they are irrelevant. Besides, Canada doesn’t care about football unless it’s Canadian or American. Hockey is the sport of passion here and that is the sport that brings out the nutters who play the patriot card and rant on about territorial rubbish and just voice their bitter and angry words at those who don’t want to hear them. Know anyone by that on this site? I could name a few.
As for Dan the Man; you have issues mate. I may be a bit of shit disturber but you are just blatantly abrasive and rude. In the past I have read your posts and agreed numerous times with your views. Yet you will take every chance to let me have it about mine. That’s fine but I also think there is obviously something about, where I’m’ from, what I like etc, that pisses you right off. The fact is you can’t formulate a thought or articulate an argument with me or others without sounding like a bloody hooligan whose drunk at the neighborhood pub.
Sorry Red Ranter but this needs to be said. Yes you are a bully. Not to me but to others on this site. Quite often you make solid points but then they are followed with asinine rude remarks just to make the impact a little bit stronger. GROW UP and stop lashing out like a school boy denied his toys. Eat some ethnic food once in a while and also take a trip and visit a place thats farther than your local pub. You might actually see and learn something different. Perhaps this comes as a bit harsh and I’M VERY SORRY that I’m off the topic of football, but this site would be more interesting if some of the posters didn’t call others names, stereotype them and pigeonhole them into categories for their own comfort and amusement. And to steal a quote from a movie I love, “Now how do you like them apples?”
March 29th, 2008 at 7:20
not to mention that it (this love-fest between passionate readers who forget that they’re on the same side) turns off the less regular readers and prevents them from becoming a part of the club (notice how everyone backs off when this type of conversation starts)…
match preview coming in a bit, hold your horses till then guys
March 29th, 2008 at 16:00
Just about the kind of intelligent remarks I expected. I’ll say theis much for you Dan, at least you are predictably consistent. WOW! Now go back to your crib asnd play with your rattle and blanky.