Jul 24
Irresponsible Media Stir Up Another Storm
Various media outlets, including the Guardian, have run up headlines like ‘Tevez: Let Ronaldo go to Real’ or ‘Ronaldo should be allowed to go to Real - Tevez’.
Here is what the actual quotes look like, in English (considering these have been translated from Spanish, surely):
“It is clear he is a very important player for us but this is a personal decision, which is up to him only. I understand Cristiano. Every footballer wants to pay at Real Madrid. I also think that everyone wants to play for Manchester United but, if what he seeks is something else, that should be respected. I have not talked to him but, when these things happen, neither side feels good.”
Pray, tell me how this is anything but a diplomatic reply to a question that’s been asked ad infinitum throughout the summer? Yes, one must respect a player’s wishes. And United have not slagged Ronaldo for expressing his interests. [They have just respectfully told him that he's going nowhere, at least for now -- but that's besides the point.] I just don’t see where Tevez says United must let Ronaldo go.
Tevez’s quotes are not even remotely earth shattering. They are the usual, ‘this is a personal decision, it’s upto him, club X is a good club but so is my club blah blah … the only way to settle this is by a deathmatch in a cage‘ you get the drift.
If anything, it is surprising to see a diplomatic reply from a player who runs like a terrier on the field (one who also turned up at a Boca Juniors press conference in a Manchester United shirt).
Whilst this sort of word twisting is not particularly new, it is extremely annoying to see a player like Tevez, who has been going about his business quietly, get dragged into a controversy of not his creating.
Mr. Mark Ogden (the man who ran the story on the Guardian), shame on you — and your editor.
Related items from Red Rants:- Tevez for £32m? Tevez Quotes Denied + Kaizer Chiefs Friendly
- United 4-0 Wigan: The Goals Are Coming!
- Twists Galore as Tevez Saga Continues
- An Open Letter to England Fans
- Lull After the Storm
Tags: Opinions/Columns
July 24th, 2008 at 8:31
spot on - every word
they really need to grow up, these idiots
July 24th, 2008 at 9:12
not only that, but the article was in AS, which the Guardian failed to mention.
July 24th, 2008 at 9:31
frackin british media, instead of them trying to support and praise the English and European champions, they are busy aiding Platini and Blatter’s plans to bring down English football starting with ManUtd. Not one positive story has been printed about United since we won the double, heck, we were not even allowed to parade our trophies. It’s sad, it’s like the English don’t enjoy success, maybe that’s why we suck at sports!!!
July 24th, 2008 at 9:43
Totally irresponsible. It’s more than likely going to irritate the fans as SAF will know it’s BS. Anything to sell tabloids these days.
July 24th, 2008 at 9:57
Sorry to be a pedant but Carlitos wore the United shirt at a Corinthians press conference
July 24th, 2008 at 10:02
i have just seen that berbatov can go to ac milan or barca for 25mil but united have to pay 30mil if that is true we should go after huntelaar
July 24th, 2008 at 10:07
You guys need 2 see this..!
That boy really has lost his mind..!
http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/2008/07/football_fashio_14.html
July 24th, 2008 at 10:31
Tevez only said what Red Ranter has been saying, ie let him go…
July 24th, 2008 at 10:33
I’m going to disagree with you here, RR. I don’t think Tevez was totally neutral in his reply. “A personal decision which is up to him only” and “if what he seeks is something else, that should be respected” says nothing about Ronaldo’s contractual obligation to the club. I can understand how those words could be construed as somewhat sympathetic to CR, though I agree that the media has made too much of it.
July 24th, 2008 at 10:36
Truthfully I would have liked him to back the club like Michael Carrick, who said why would anyone want to leave United rather than, “Every footballer wants to pay at Real Madrid” a little naive I would say considering what has been happening for the past two months.
July 24th, 2008 at 10:44
But what about the websites including this one run by RR who has openly posted “let him go”. Isn’t that irresponsible too? We’ve already seen the rise of the numpties at a recent reserve game…
July 24th, 2008 at 10:46
This is just symptomatic of the media reacting to what has been a really slow and boring close season by anyone’s standards. Makes me really pleased that I’m almost as big a cricket fan, so I have something interesting
to get me through to August 16.
This, by the way, is really bad news. With Ronaldo already injured and Hargreaves doubtful, Park was one of the few players in the squad who could genuinely provide us with width. Fingers crossed that Fergie’s optimism is not misplaced with either.
July 24th, 2008 at 11:39
You know, I don’t really blame anyone on this one. Firstly, I kind of support Carlos’ view, and also view him as the kind of honest character who would have no problem expressing his opinion. I mean, there’s no reason to keep Ronaldo if he wants to leave, what annoys me isn’t that he wants to go, but the way he’s behaved.
And the media act in their own best interest - to sell papers. So of course its worth reporting, because it’s both relevant and people care.
The real blame lies at the feet of two parties: Mr I can’t commit to anything but please ask me because I like the limelight Ronaldo and all of those buying the papers.
July 24th, 2008 at 12:18
On another tangent, I found this story at the times on wage bills. It shows just how much Chelski are taking the piss.
£40m more! Jesus Christ, that’s depressing. And totally outrageous - sometimes you need cold hard numbers to emphasise just how silly things have become.
It’s a worrying state of affairs when the second biggest wage-payer can see merit in a salary cap. And it makes me feel sorry for Arsenal, albeit in a slightly condescending way.
July 24th, 2008 at 12:19
football.editor@guardianunlimited.co.uk
I think a few emails to the above address might be in order to point out the inaccuracies in their journalism….
July 24th, 2008 at 12:42
Well this could all be a ploy from Carlito, saying every player wants to sign for Real, posibly trying to scare United to sign him on a permanent deal.
July 24th, 2008 at 13:41
can anyone please tell me where the fuck Manucho is??
He was meant to be with the pre season squad?
July 24th, 2008 at 14:04
Fuck those media assholes. I pray that august 31st 11.59 pm reaches soon. As for ronaldo i am really sick of this story and it never goes away does it. I hope we shall boo him every single match or if he shows up at OT.
As for transfers, i think ferguson is really going to push up our youth players rather than sign new players. I think its the reason why we arent signing.
July 24th, 2008 at 14:13
@James Ryddel: The media have involved themselves in twisting of words given by a player. There is nothing irresponsible about stating an opinion about a player, which was what I did. And if you’ve read my stance on Ronaldo clearly, I am not advocating selling Ronaldo. And even if I did, it would be my opinion which leads me to ask how is having an opinion, different from yours, considered irresponsible?
July 24th, 2008 at 14:14
Why would Tevez even say this shite
July 24th, 2008 at 14:51
Possebon on his way to join the squad fo the final to games in Africa !!!(along with Cathcart and some other player)…. great news, can’t wait to see him in the senior squad!!
Also.. a little off topic.. but i would like to know how you guys feel about Roy Keane since he became sunderland manager… i loved the guy so much when he was playing for us but lately i feel he’s been a bit of a hypocrite… last year he mentioned the managers he respected in the EPL, and none of them were SAF, and worst of all, he left the club after criticizing some of our players saying they didnt have the heart he expected. Fair enough but why would he then go signing the same knid of players he hates??? Richardson, Yorke, and now we hear he wants to sign Chimbonda (the worst kind of player that exists) to a 55K a week contract as well as Kaboul…
July 24th, 2008 at 14:56
He has turned into a bit of a rent a quote I must say, and I am certainly not convinced of him as a premiership manager, I don’t think he ever had a problem with Yorkie though.
I loved him as a player and was in Turin on that great night and he was superb, will never forget that performance I will always love him.
July 24th, 2008 at 15:28
@B: link, i cant get on the united website for some reason…
July 24th, 2008 at 15:33
Any United fan who boos Ronaldo is every bit as bad as Ronaldo has been over the last few weeks. Booing one of your own would be a clueless and classless act and any so called Red should be ashamed of himself for doing so.
July 24th, 2008 at 15:38
The Tevez quotes annoy me too. I’d have much rather he said something like “Manchester United are the best club in the world and I do not understand why anyone would want to play anywhere else”
But I reckon Tevez is unsure of his position at the club and sees Real as a possible destination himself so is avoiding stirring things up
July 24th, 2008 at 15:45
Regarding being irresponsible. RR don’t you see the blatant hypocrisy of your posting? You have given your opinion that Ronaldo should be sold, which as you say you are entitled to do. However, when someone else, ie the Guardian reports that Tevez has done likewise then you go off on one, when you’ve already advocated selling Ronaldo, in doing so pissing petrol of the anti Ronaldo fire storm….And let’s be clear, forget the Guardian headline, or as you put this ‘twisting words’ Tevez is saying the player should be allowed to join Madrid.
Some fans will take more notice of a fan site than a newspaper site and so we all have a duty to be responsible.
How embarrassing will it actually be when our own so called fans start booing Ronaldo? We will be a laughing stock.
July 24th, 2008 at 15:54
@James Ryddel:
You have given your opinion that Ronaldo should be sold, which as you say you are entitled to do
Which is where you are wrong. I haven’t advocated Ronaldo to be sold. I have been disappointed with his attitude toward the fans. But I have not advocated selling Ronaldo. All I have said is that United hold the upper hand whatever happens to Ronaldo.
And I don’t condone those who went with the slave Ronaldo banners. But at the same time there is no rule book that says you can’t boo a player even though I personally won’t do it.
July 24th, 2008 at 16:14
Only a complete muppet would boo their own players.
July 24th, 2008 at 16:16
@James Ryddel: I doubt that many OT fans will be booing CR - it is simply not something that Utd fans do (generally speaking). For evidence of this check out the post over at the Republik of Mancunia. However, no longer singing Viva Ronaldo is definitely in order.
July 24th, 2008 at 16:18
well, that bastard is stirring up news to trouble united’s morale. well, he cant turn united apart.
July 24th, 2008 at 16:19
And again, where is the hypocrisy in it?
– I never advocated selling Ronaldo although I don’t have the respect I used to have for him.
– I really saw the headline as an attempt to twist what Tevez said. The fact is, this was reportage, not a column. Tevez suggests that Ronaldo’s opinion be respected if he so desires to do what he wants to do. It was not an assertion where he says “United, sell Ronaldo”.
– What has my opinion on Ronaldo have to do with looking at an article and analyzing what I think to be right? If I am wrong it will be suggested in the comments, as you yourself have done so.
I have no ulterior motives here. I don’t respect Ronaldo the person. But I know Ronaldo the player is still a key component of our team. If anything I have suggested that Fergie start planning and grooming a replacement as to prepare for the eventual departure of Ronaldo (perhaps next season?) I really don’t know where you got the “RR is in the sell Ronaldo bandwagon” from.
July 24th, 2008 at 16:21
@James Ryddel: Honestly I don’t think United fans will boo Ronaldo. But as Eric said there will be fewer songs sung early on.
July 24th, 2008 at 16:24
@James Ryddel: Only a complete muppet would win the champions league and the toughest league in europe and then think moving to Real Madrid is a good idea!
July 24th, 2008 at 16:45
RR - regarding your own position. You seem to be somewhat sitting on the fence then, by that I mean you’ll happily accept whatever happens? And yes, we know that you’re not happy with Ronaldo, but who is?
You also appear to be happy to allow anti Ronaldo feelings to spread via your site, because as you say fans can if they so wish boo our own stars. Further to which fans arguing with each other isn’t a good thing and I can see some bad things happening once the season starts…especially if our fans boo Ronaldo.
My own view is that United need to retain Ronaldo at all costs - which is the same view as Fergie’s, we should all respect his wishes on this one, after all he knows better than the rest of us.
It is getting tiresome though and the sooner this matter is resolved the better.
July 24th, 2008 at 16:51
@James Ryddel: To be accurate, I am not happy with the way things have gone over the summer. I am really hurt and disappointed with the way he’s handled the situation. I trust the decision of the management and Ferguson over the handling of Ronaldo is how I’d want to put it. Ferguson has dumped many players, so if he really wants to hold on to Ronaldo then he must surely have a bloody good reason for it.
But regarding fomenting anti-Ronaldo feelings via my site, what happens in the comments section i.e., the opinions of the other commenters is not my responsibility as long as they don’t violate my comments policy. Anyone can talk anything about United even if I completely disagree with what he says as long as there are no personal attacks on other fellow commenters.
Once a community grows on a site, I can’t go about on a rampage as a moral police trying to kick any dissenter out of my site. That’s not why this was setup and that is against my belief in free speech.
July 24th, 2008 at 16:51
Ngog completes move to Anfield
Check this out: one of the brightest young talents in French football” and “lightening quick”, although Ngog, the cousin of the former Newcastle defender Jean-Alain Boumsong,
And the kicker:
managed just one goal in 18 matches for PSG last season
July 24th, 2008 at 16:52
@James Ryddel, this site is called RED RANTS mate and everyone is entitled to their opinion.
July 24th, 2008 at 16:55
@James Ryddel:
I think you’ll find that the freedom to express your opinion, no matter how controversial, is one of the things that draws most people to this site and retains them as regular posters.
Jesus, what sort of cotton wool-padded world do you live in? Should we all just listen to what Fergie says and chant it to each other like it was gospel?
Edit: or you’re just a troll, and I’ve just given you exactly the response you’re looking for.
July 24th, 2008 at 17:01
@Stephen: To be honest, I think, James’ point was about me needing to be more responsible about what I post in the main blog content. Whilst I do attempt to be responsible and I thank him for giving constructive criticism (even though I disagreed with what he perceived as my hypocrisy) everyone is free to do as they please on the comments as long as there no personal attacks, as you said.
July 24th, 2008 at 17:05
@Penguin: Penguin, I am pretty sure James is not a troll. He himself runs a very very good Manchester United blog (Link) and I don’t think his intentions are malicious.
July 24th, 2008 at 17:09
@ Red Ranter, I was just protecting your honour Sir!
July 24th, 2008 at 17:15
I’m sorry RR but I am going to be awfully predictable here and disagree with your take as well. The bottom line is what he said was WRONG. And those comments are attributed to him with quotation marks. As bad and as sleazy as the media is, they are very careful when it comes to direct quotes. The one thing they hate is is being sued over misquoting somebody. Theories, rumors and conjecture are fine and they are free to blacken somebody’s name with that garbage because there are no quotes involved. But when you place quotation marks on something somebody said, you are immediately liable.
Tevez is not showing a great deal of disrespect to Manchester United but he is showing an ignorance of the rules, of contractual agreements and above all, he is aligning himself with a player who is not looking out for the best interests of Manchester United. You cannot go out and say things like “if what he seeks is something else, that should be respected.” and “Every footballer wants to pay at Real Madrid. I also think that everyone wants to play for Manchester United.” Those are loony toon quotes. Why should Ronaldo be respected for wanting to break a five year contract? Why should he be respected for placing the team in unneeded turmoil and stress after a victory that should have been savored instead of quickly forgotten? And how is it possible that every player wants to play for Real Madrid and Manchester United. Obviously that is a ridiculous generalization and also incredibly false. I am sure there are many players who would rather die than to play for either of those two teams. Not every Spanish or Portuguese speaking player in the World thinks of Real. Many grow up loving Barcelona, Atletico or even some Italian clubs. Certainly not every English player loves United. Many brought up in Liverpool or London for example would think twice if United came a calling. And then there are thousands of players throughout the world who may support or love other teams. Contrary to what many might think, the world does not revolve around Real Madrid and Manchester United. That’s so simplistic and also very insulting to many players who have grown up hating these teams both on the pitch as well as off.
Tevez may actually be very loyal to United but there is a desire in him I believe for other parts of the football world but at present, nobody is knocking on his door. Could this statement actually be an invitation to Real Madrid to possibly come and knock on his door? By not insulting them and putting them down for their sleazy efforts to get Ronaldo, he has shown them that he is an avid admirer of their style on and off the pitch and while not officially stepping on United’s toes, he is indicating his future interest as well. After all, he has no contract with United and is really not that hard to get I believe. The fact that he wears United jersey’s to press conferences in Argentina means nothing to me. I’m sure he loves playing for us but I’m sure he is a mercenary like most of the Latino brigade around the planet. For them Real or Barcelona are the top of the mountain and mercenary thought will always exist up to the time they are lucky enough to sign with either team. I’m truly a little disappointed with his stance. What we need is more of our foreign contingent putting down Real and pleading to Ronaldo to wake up and smell the coffee. Ask him why would anyone want to leave the best club in the world? And certainly not tell him that it is everyone’s dream to play for Real Fucking Putrid Madrid. It’s bad enough that Calderon has been able to get many Real players to say the same things, but for United players to say to Ronaldo it’s fine to want out of a contract and to want to go to Real like it’s some form of Utopian Heaven on Earth, well that’s just sick and twisted. BOLLOCKS!
July 24th, 2008 at 17:18
@Red Ranter: Fair enough, I just didn’t see where his argument was going.
July 24th, 2008 at 17:18
@Stephen: No problem mate. I was just giving you some context for the discussion I was having with James.
And I agreed with you regarding speaking your mind in the comments section .
July 24th, 2008 at 17:21
I don’t mind being called a Troll, I’ve been called a lot worse, far worse in fact.
I’ve also probably been following United for a lot longer than anyone on this site, first game late 60s. During this period the number of times I’ve heard our fans booing our own players can be counted on one hand, it’s never clever and almost always ends in tears of sorts.
It seriously piss*s me off to learn than some supporters are so upset with Ronaldo that they could turn against him - this after all he’s done for United.
We have to accept that he is not from Gorton, Salford or Oldham - so as sure as we can expect rain in Manchester any time soon Ronaldo was always going to want to play in Spain for Madrid or Barcelona at some point in the future and yes I completely agree that the way Ronaldo has handled this is all very wrong. But as fans we should be more mature about Ronaldo and his background, we need to be collectively a bit more understanding and we be big enough to forgive him for his shortcomings this summer.
July 24th, 2008 at 17:24
James Ryddel; Only a complete Muppet would tell others how they should react and how they should cheer? You have no quota on loyalty and you have no right to think for us. If I want to boo his fucking socks off, I will and I won’t have the likes of you telling me I’m not a Manchester United fan. How dare you. What nerve! Get over yourself mate.
July 24th, 2008 at 17:32
@Red Ranter: Why is it important that you be more responsible by what you post on as a main blog comment? Why, is there a supreme code of ethics an independent blogger needs to follow just because he is on the Internet? I think you have the right to post whatever you want RR, except when it becomes illegal. In the overall scheme of things you and thousands of bloggers like you are little fish in a very big pond. It’s not your moral obligation to tow any kind of politically correct line or have a stance that falls in line with that kind of movement. Be yourself and post whatever you feel like posting mate. Your loyal members will always be there and your blog will continue to grow because it’s the best United blog out there. See what I mean about the thought police? There’s a fucking Right wing Republican on every bloody corner of every bloody street trying to tell us all how to think and what we can and cannot do. Ridiculous!
Just be yourself, but I’m sure I don’t even have to say that to you.
July 24th, 2008 at 17:33
@ James Ryddel, I am a season ticket holder and won’t boo him, but he needs to know he has treating the fans badly this summer, we need to stand up to this ponce.
His attitude of I will score a couple of goals and all will be well in my view is not acceptable.
He will never be a legend @ OT and we as fans should not let him off the hook quite so easily. I will as I say not boo him, but I will never cheer him, hopefully my silence will be deafening, but knowing him with his thick skin he will be too obsessed about himself and not the fans.
July 24th, 2008 at 17:42
@James Ryddel:
Apologies for calling you a troll - my mistake. But having followed RR’s link to your blog, I have a couple of points to make to you:
1. Reading your post of 14 July, this not booing Ronaldo is clearly a pet point of yours. Fair enough, as I said everyone’s entitled to their view. But I don’t know how popular you’re going to make yourself by making this a crusade against all United supporters who post on blogs, and I don’t know what you’ll achieve other than riling people.
2. In that post, you say “Here’s a question for any numpties out there. Who knows best, Ferguson and the United players like Rio or the boo boys and **** stirring websites? Answers on a postcard…”
But the headlines on other posts around that one are:
“Is Berbatov really the right striker for United?”
“Is Berbatov really worth £10m more than Samuel Eto’o?”
Does that not qualify as questioning Fergie? And why shouldn’t we question Fergie, he doesn’t get it right all the time - nobody does.
July 24th, 2008 at 17:49
@James Ryddel: Years following the team does not make you any better a fan than somebody who just became a fan yesterday. All it does is give you more knowledge on the team’s history and how it has evolved. I for one am not a big fan of old boy’s networks who feel that they have a privilege or right greater than others to enjoy a given thing. Sorry, but that does not make you more of a fan. And if you get pissed off over how some of us feel about Ronaldo, I just have one word of advice for you mate, get over it. That’s life. We don’t all eat the same cereal in the morning and read the same paper. Perhaps many of us put more value on loyalty and honoring a contract than you do. “After all he’s done for us”? Yes, he single handedly destroyed two months out of every Manchester United fan’s life by ruining our celebration over the Double. Double’s don’t happen every year and especially ones that include the Champions League. To not allow us to enjoy and savor that moment was callous and low on his part. But what was even lower was his unforgivable behavior and disrespect to all fans and especially to his teammates and Fergie most of all. If you and some others cannot see that, that’s fine. You have the right and freedom to think as you please. Why? Because you are not under contract to me or anybody else who may then tell you what you can and cannot say in public. I’m not form Gorton, Salford or Oldham neither but that has not kept me from being loyal for 25 years. Loyalty is not entirely territorial. We live in highly advanced electronic communication age and so allegiance isn’t tied down to territories anymore.. And I don’t have a multi-million dollar contract that pays me to stay loyal. Stop protecting spoilt, immature and irresponsible players who have the world as their oyster and cannot respect the institutions or the laws that gave them all this power, as well as the freedom to turn their backs on all those who made them. Give me a break.
July 24th, 2008 at 17:59
I agree with James’s point, well at least part of it. The part that we should retain Ronaldo at all costs. I guess what I also agree is that RR is the person in charge of this blog and I believe many people will listen to you and when you say that you don’t have problem with other people booing our own players, that doesn’t sit well with me. I mean we all agree that booing our own is a shameless act, so if anyone does it they should be critisized. Ronaldo gave us 2 great years and I hope he will give us 2 more, but this will not happen if our own goes against him. He already recieves enough hate from the opposition.
July 24th, 2008 at 18:00
On to something different. Remember all my bitching for weeks and weeks about Fergie taking his sweet old time to buy a player. Well it appears his procrastination just may end up biting him in the ass. Tottenham are so pissed off with Fergie they are going to sell him to Milan or Barca instead. And this will happen because they are selling him for less and because when it comes to the end of the day, Berbatov just wants out of Tottenham. He will gladly OK any deal to go to such prestigious clubs. I said two weeks ago that he should just knuckle under and pay the 30 million they wanted. Instead he low balled them and then allowed the media to fuck Levy’s head around enough that now their is tremendous animosity between the two clubs. I can honestly say that now, I do not believe we will end up with Berbatov. We aren’t competing with him against Man City or Liverpool, we are up against Milan and Barca. Financially and historically strong opponents. On top of that, we are playing in an unfair game where their price is lower than our price and that Levy doesn’t even want to sell to us also makes it very unlikely that it will happen.
For me this may have a silver lining attached to it. It may mean that Fergie will have to settle for my fist choice Klass Jan Huntelaar after all. But knowledge that Berbatov is gone will force Ajax to play hard ball with us and his price will go up and Fergie will not want to pay it. I have a very bad feeling about this.
July 24th, 2008 at 18:07
@Orez: Simply put, RR is just stating that we all have a mind of our own and he is respecting all our rights to choose for ourselves and not to be dictated to by others who feel it their mission in life to tell us how to act and think. Mind your own business and stop telling others what they should or should not do mate. I for one will boo loudly but don’t worry. I doubt you, James or Ronaldo will be able to hear me all the way from Canada. And no, WE all don’t agree that booing our own is a shameless act. What is a shameless act is players wanting to break contracts and players who show fans no respect while snubbing their noses at us.
He made his bed, now he can lye in it. Apparently some of you would like to cuddle up next to the Judas. Whatever floats your boat I guess. 
July 24th, 2008 at 18:33
@Grognard:
grog, whats so sacrosanct about a contract with a private organisation like utd? its not a contract with God is it?
In todays world thousands of people are fired very unceremoniously so often. my own boss got fired after 2 years of working his ass off (and being one of the best performers in the organisation) just like that!!! Its a world where everyones looking for their own interests. Surely Ronaldo has a contract but it can definitely be broken. Ronaldo (or whosoever) just need to pay the right price!!!
July 24th, 2008 at 18:47
@Grognard: I have only recently begun posting here but have read this site almost since its beginnings and I have noticed that this ‘real fan’ business almost always gets your hackles up. I’m just wondering whether the term is as pernicious as you feel it is. I’ve noticed that usually the term doesn’t mark a difference in how much one loves the club but it marks a difference in one’s attitude as a fan and it typically denotes a cultural difference between those born and bred in and around Manchester and those who are not. Those from Manchester have been raised in a culture where booing one’s own is simply not on. We North Americans for whatever reason (likely a socio-political one relating to the fact that the entirty of our culture has been dominated by capitalism) feel that purchasing something comes with certain rights, so that purchasing a ticket or a shirt gives us the right to treat players as we see fit. As a Yankee fan you are certainly aware of this. I am certainly not trying to dissuade you of your opinion or trying to tell you how to think or whether or not you should boo Ronaldo. That is entirely your perogative. I am just wondering if this whole ‘real fan’ thing is such a big deal. Feel free to rant and bash me at your leisure.
Cheers, mate!
July 24th, 2008 at 19:12
@Grognard: You are missing the point about responsibility. It is to not stoop down to the Tribal Football BS that typically infests Newsnow. That was basically what James was on about (I think). And that point was directed at me. I clarified my stand with him.
Everyone:
I appreciate your support but I think I can handle remarks directed at me. Thanks nonetheless.
July 24th, 2008 at 19:54
I got a reply from the sports editor of the guardian…
——-
I expect “if what he seeks is something else, that should be respected” is the extract that prompted the headline you disapprove of. It seems fine to me and I have a real bugbear about misleading headlines, wherever they appear.
——-
that quote equals let ronaldo go?
July 24th, 2008 at 20:20
Even Tevez gets diplomatic to avoid all these media-generated problems, but then media has their own way of presenting things. Like you once wrote a heading which had ‘Scholes interview’ but the post didn’t, these are the little tricks that media perform to attract visitors.
July 24th, 2008 at 20:30
@Aravind: That was not a trick, it was a mistake which I admitted and changed the title to Scholes Article. (you can have a look at those comments again)
In this case it’s not. It’s a trick that’s all.
July 24th, 2008 at 20:37
@Orez: When I say that I don’t have a problem with others booing Ronaldo I mean that while it may not be acceptable to me personally (as in, I won’t boo a United player) I won’t impose it on others or expect other people to act in a way I deem acceptable. It’s my opinion and I will share my opinion with others but won’t impose it on them so as to force them to believe my way of thinking. The internet is full of people from different walks of life that I may not even understand their cultural leanings. So I would disagree with them and leave it at that.
July 24th, 2008 at 20:41
Yo RedRanter- You heard anything about our boy Manucho??
Where the hell is he?! Am i the only person that cares?!
July 24th, 2008 at 20:59
@jos: It’s legal and it’s binding in a court of law. Enough said. We are dealing in millions of dollars of money here. If you can’t understand that, I can’t help you.
July 24th, 2008 at 21:05
@jos: Did your boss work with a contract in place? If so, he was let go but paid for up to the end of the contract. If he did something to get himself fired, that’s a different story. And your Boss is small fry in this world when you compare him to the million dollar salaries of professional athletes. We can’t have athletes running around and playing musical chairs with teams during every post season. How are teams supposed to set themselves up and operate under that kind of crap? Pro sports has to run itself under some very strict socialist guidelines in order to survive and to be fair. Players have to agree to this going in or they can find another line of work that will permit them the freedom they want. It’s the small price a player pays for incredible wealth and stardom. My heart really bleeds for them. Honestly!
July 24th, 2008 at 21:24
@Eric the Red: Eric a fan is a fan no matter where they come from or how close they are to their team’s home stadium. I have watched many games from OT where our so called loyal and proximate following of fans have indeed booed players unmercifully. Names of players that come to mind are Saha (he deserves it), Andy Cole, Barthez, Bosnic, Taibi, Silvestre, Alan Smith, and even Rio received a fair booing when he was stalling on a contract. Heck, I’ve even Giggs and Scholes heard the boo birds last year during periods where they weren’t playing well. It’s a fan’s right to boo. They pay their money whether it be tickets, cable tv, or licensed merchandise. They have the right and no group of fans can say to them no you can’t. I do agree that being brought up ion different cultures makes a big difference. In North America if a pitcher gives up 8 runs in an inning and is taken out of the game, he will definitely receive boos before he reaches the dugout. In US football, a quarterback has a miserable day passing and throws 4 or 5 interceptions, he can expect a rude response. That’s just the nature of the business. You get paid the big bucks to perform and entertain the fans. If you suck or if you show signs of disrespect, or lack of loyalty, you will hear it. Americans and Cnadians have a thing about loyalty. We demand it. While you are under contract for the team you play, you are expected to give 100% and never ever complain about your situation or act the way Ronaldo has. And for the most part, players do exactly that. There are exceptions but it usually is a player who is not being used and who believes the best years of his career arew being wasted on the bench. Then in that case, I’m even more sympathetic. What power do fans have. Fans support and reaction dates back to the Roman Empire and the Gladiatorial games that were played in the Coliseum or venues like that all over the empire. Back then they were not known as supporters or fans. They were known as the MOB. They were very loyal but also very unforgiving and sadistic. Thumbs up you live, thumbs down you died. I think we have evolved considerably since then so I don’t think voicing our displeasure by booing a rich spoilt bastard like Ronaldo is out of line. He needs a good dose of humility. He needs to know his role and he needs to know that in the overall scheme of things, he doesn’t answer to Fergie, he answers to all of us. We pay his salary through the profits that the Glazers make through our participation. I’m just a poor Pleb. If I pay my hard earned 50 pounds to go see a game and my team decides to take the day off and stink the joint out, I have a right to voice my displeasure as I would if I went to a restaurant and ordered a steak rare and it came to me well done. Supporters make this sport, not the players or the managers. Without us, they play in schoolyards with no money involved.
And there is absolutely nothing wrong with what you say and so no bashing is necessary. You argument is valid I just don’t see things the same way. So no problem from me mate. Cheers.
July 24th, 2008 at 21:32
@Grognard: Dont pretend like they owe you their lives though, because without them, you’d be left with nothing to play with. And watching an empty stadium. Stop sounding so deserving.
July 24th, 2008 at 21:38
Grognard, completely agree with with you mate on the subject of the ronaldo situation. I feel he has made a mockery of our great club and has definitely taken the shine off our great achievements. He has belittled our club making us look second rate compared to Real, even though anybody with half a brain can see that they are second rate compared to us. Whilst he has not said anything, don’t you think his silence speaks volumes. The crap that comes out of his mouth, always saying we will see what the future holds. I do not know if i want him back again. He has everything but seems to want more. If he wants to join the shitty has been club in spain then tell him to f off. He will not achieve anything there and the manager at Barca (a team i have a great respect for) will be back winning titles making madrid look second class. If he wants that then fine.
On other news i just wanted to say that it seems that Grognard is a very clever person and seems to know alot about the football teams and players across the world. I believe you said that you watched alot of foreign footie especially in germany (correct me if im wrong). I just wanted to know if there are any wingers out there that you recommend as i think we need a new right winger regardless of the ronalod saga. We have nani suspended and plays on the left wing anyway, park injured, ronaldo out (or sold) meaning we would have to rely on fletcher to play for the first few months of the season assuming we keep ronaldo that is. I would be worried facing the likes of liverpool and the chavs playing with fletcher there. I view signing a right winger as more important than singing a striker. What are your views?
July 24th, 2008 at 21:56
@Red Ranter: Ohh.. I didn’t notice the corrected article.
Just wanted to tell one more thing man.. RR taking time to load for 2 days now, the comments section especially. No problem with the internet speed in general. RR and ‘101 gr8 goals’ taking time to load.
July 24th, 2008 at 22:18
@Aravind: Don’t know what the problem may be — it seems to be ok for me. Will see what can be done about it.
July 24th, 2008 at 22:29
@Comma: Owing their lives? Aren’t we being a little melodramatic here. These are bloody millionaires that feed themselves with silver spoons and sunbathe in front of their pools. Damn rights they owe us something. They owe us a 100% effort every time they play and they owe us commitment through the contract they sign. After that contract if they choose to leave, I have no problem or any hard feelings whatsoever. As long as they are Manchester United property by law, they better adhere to those rules and regulations and respect the club and supporters of the that team.
July 24th, 2008 at 22:36
@Grognard: Well you can discount AC Milan from that list. They are a club in financial trouble and Berbatov is not going to go to a club which plays in the UEFA cup next season. Spurs do as well. As for as Barcelona are concerned Guardiola has guaranteed Henry that he would start up front so I don’t think Berbatov would like to end up in the bench there. He wants to come to Utd and I believe Spurs cannot force the issue on Berbatov….. So don’t lose hope yet……
July 24th, 2008 at 22:43
@Matthew: We should be worried about the future with Fergie standing pat and players falling like flies to injuries. There are several wingers out there that are good stop gap measures to help us through our injuries but I would rather we bought a few young ones instead and bleed them a little. My favorite ones right now are Marko Marin of Borussia Moenchngladbach and Sotiris Ninis of Panathinaikos in Greece. Alex Sanchez of River Plate is probably the best one out there. Three players who are supremely skilled and ahead of schedule in their development. They are all very young as well and have many great years ahead. Other wingers I like are not available although I would still consider Quaresma. I haven’t heard if he signed with anybody yet. If so disregard that last comment. I know Fergie looks for speed and dribbling skill. They would be the best bet.
And thanks for the kind praise. Considering how much mud is slung in my direction, it’s always great to find someone who agrees with me sometimes and above all, just gets it.
July 24th, 2008 at 22:45
@Krishnan: Very valid points. I tis true that the final say lyes with Berbatov and going to a team that not only has a place for him in the starting 11, but also plays in the CL is vital. Still, don’t discount the allure that a club like Milan can have for a player. But good points nevertheless so yes, it does make me feel better. Thanks.
July 24th, 2008 at 23:00
Grog
Personally, I strongly disagree with your stance on booing players. I can’t see how booing a pitcher as he is walking to the dugout helps at all. He’ll know he’s had a stinker, so why do the fans need to tell him that? I think that if the fans only cheer players when they are playing well, and boo them when they are not, they aren’t showing the players any loyalty, and are being rather fickle, so why should the players show loyalty if the fans turn on them just like that *clicks fingers*?
If you want to boo, then that’s your choice, and I know that there are several others who have made the same choice, however I’d be disappointed to see our own fans lower ourselves to booing players. I think what would hit Ronaldo hardest is complete silence. You, several times on this blog, have said that he “is dead” to you, correct? So why show him the recognition? Ronaldo thrives on attention, don’t give him attention, and he’ll be brought down a peg or two. That is my view on the situation, but hey, it’s your right to boo if you want, just don’t expect me to join in with you.
July 24th, 2008 at 23:34
Grognard, have you seen anything of henri saivet, he is meant to be good. Or another player closer to home who i keep hearing about is a lad called john fleck at rangers. Just wanted to know if you have seen them play and if they are any good.
July 24th, 2008 at 23:58
I’m glad someone wrote about this. I saw the headline and thought “Oh great” then you read what he said and are left wondering what the big deal was all about.
July 25th, 2008 at 0:12
@Grognard: I kinda agree with this, does everyone actually see Levy still selling Berbatov to us after all the hot air he’s blown? Also there was a thread on redcafe with the transcript of Fergie’s full interview with Ian Ladyman in South Africa, in the article, when asked about his so-called “mystery signing”, Fergie says we’ve given up. I don’t know if he really means that or not, but i have to say that our chances of getting Berbatov are really slim.
July 25th, 2008 at 0:41
@Rd: I think it all depends on how serious Liverpool are in getting Keane. If they abandon, and they’ve just signed a striker and have no money, it’s not a massive blow for Spurs to keep Keane and get £25 million for Berba.
Don’t get me wrong, loosing Berbatov is a blow. But only loosing one of their top men and the money they’d get for him will help their rebuilding greatly.
I’ve admired Robbie Keane since his Wolves days, and if he doesn’t get his move he will stay and give his all every match. He’ll score goals, do a forward roll and all will likely be forgotten. The same thing will happen with Ronaldo with us, sans the acrobatics.
Berbatov doesn’t strike me as that sort of player however. He is a big grumpy grump. He’ll just stink the place out in training, on the bench, on the pitch and anywhere else he can grump to.
July 25th, 2008 at 0:52
@AlexOfMancunia: Who cares if the player gets the raspberries from the crowd. if he stunk up the joint he deserves what he gets. It’s only booing for crying out loud. I’m not saying tie him and waterboard or torture him. Fans have a right to show their displeasure at both players and coaches if the team is playing poorly and or somebody is showing a lack of team loyalty. Just because you boo and show some displeasure, doesn’t mean you hate or want the player dead. Grab some perspective for crying out loud. It’s only booing. Have of all professional wrestlers deal with it all the time. And they get it far worse than other athletes. What’s next, we can’t boo the opposition because it may hurt their feelings and because we are not being gracious hosts? And how is complete silence any better than good hardy booing. Silence and whistling is what Russians in the former Soviet Union used to do when their Red Army teams would stink at home. It was eerie and rather cold. Booing is passionate and makes a true statement of intent and displeasure. It’s only noise and so I think you and others are making much more out of it than there really is. Fans cheer and fans boo, that’s normal. And i see no written rule that says I cannot show my displeasure at my team or at a player if he deserves it. Booing Ryan Giggs after he has given us over 15 years of loyal service and never ever desired a move. Booing a disloyal, childish and two faced greedy Ronaldo somehow doesn’t really bother me that much. I’m urging all United fans to give him a good hardy welcome by booing the socks right off of him. Let him have it. He deserves it. And then afterwards, if his attitude improves and he pledges his next four years to United, i am all for cheering him and giving him flowers and standing ovations. I reward accordingly. And yes he is dead to me but my boos will be loud enough to wake the dead. I am not a Ingmar Bergman fan. I’m not a big fan of silence. I believe in noise and chaos. No war was ever one with silence. And don’t say the Cold War because that wasn’t really a war. Let the bastard have it and let him learn that he can’t assume to get away with murder and still have the majority of fans love him and respect him. For me he will have to earn that respect back. I will never love him again the way a fan loves a player because I now know more than ever what a total shit bag he is. But at least he can gain some respect and appreciation for his efforts if he repents and changes his attitude. I wouldn’t keep my fingers crossed on that one. Ronaldo doesn’t give a rats ass about you, me or any other fans in Manchester or Madrid for that matter. All he cares about is Ronaldo. He can SOD OFF!
And you are more than welcome to cheer him all you want. I respect but disagree with your view on this as you do with mine. And that’s OK.
I promise not to boo you as long as you don’t give me the silent treatment.
July 25th, 2008 at 0:56
@Matthew: I’ve heard of Saivet and heard that he is an up and coming Henry style player. Other than that I know nothing as the one league I avoid like the plague ids the French League. Their football just bores me to tears. John Fleck on the other hand I am aware of but he is still very raw and unproven. Aiden McGeady is a player that would interest me fr