Jun 24
It’s Holiday Time at Old Trafford
Welcome back. Hopefully most of you might be able to read this now that the site is fully functional. As mentioned yesterday, we went through a bit of house cleaning — house moving, rather — as we shifted servers and made changes to the backend.
While we planned an overhaul of the visible part, we decided that can wait. However, we will hope to add some more features that’s visible to you to make the commenting experience better and more expressive.
Some of you might have noted the smileys now visible so that you just have to click it rather than having to remember the key combinations. You’ll also see against a commenter, an arrow symbol like this: 
which, if you click, would create a reply to in the comment form. So you don’t have to type the user’s name you are responding to.
We also have a “Share this” icon at the bottom of the main post so that you can easily share the post with your friends via email, or AIM, or Facebook or tons of other means of social media.
We hope to gradually add other enhancements as and when we feel it’s worth the effort.
Moving on, there’s very little happening on the United front. And I’m afraid, very little is going to happen at least on the Ronaldo front for the next couple of weeks. Yes folks, it’s holiday time at Old Trafford: Fergie’s off digging his ear in the South of France; Gill is off to somewhere, perhaps fishing and examining gills of fish; and Ronaldo, well what do we say of him — he’s off to his holiday, perhaps in Madrid? We won’t know. Oh, weren’t we supposed to know by erm… yesterday? Maybe he did say something but we weren’t alert enough. He could have even announced it in his shower. Blame the News of the World for not bugging his house and not coming out with any ‘exclusives’.
Meanwhile there is the usual from the Mirror (Ron to avoid Fergie meeting) and Calderon saying Real won’t pay silly money for Ronaldo — weeks after saying no price is too high for Ronaldo. One tends to not care anymore.
So whilst everyone is enjoying the warmth of the summer away from Manchester, I think it’s time we go cranky with more idle speculation. So today’s flavour, and one that’s doing the rounds — surprisingly low profile these days — is Dimitar Berbatov to United. MEN reckon he’s odds on to go to United (no evidence whatsoever); something to do with Villa moving to Spurs. But honestly, with Gill and Fergie out on vacation I certainly don’t want Gary Neville to show Dimi his way around Old Trafford. Nor do I want him to handle transfer negotiations in their place. If he can scare away a 17 year old, then he may not have much luck with someone known to throw a hissy fit at the drop of a hat.
Related items from Red Rants:
- United’s pre-season tour to the States – a chance for a footballing holiday in America
- Rangers 0-1 Manchester United: Roo To Be Thankful For?
- Episode 20 – CanTheyScore – Man Utd Podcast
- Rants Returns to Regular Service
- Three Questions for Manchester United
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Berbatov would be an absolutely superb signing for United and I shall outline why.
(1) Berbatov has the best first touch in the premier league, and one of the best first touches I’ve ever seen. The way he picks the ball from the air with finesse and delicacy is something to behold. For my money, we don’t have any players with what you would call an exceptional first touch. Rooney’s is sublime at times, but it also has a propensity to let him down. With experience and nurturing, he’ll be up there. I’d love Berbatov at United just to drool over his first touches alone. The multiple goals and assists would just be a bonus in my eyes, it’s all about the first touch.
(2) Berbatov would bring out the best in Rooney. Let’s not beat around the bush, Rooney’s best position is in the hole (wow, what a sexual sentence for a football blog, eh?). He was played up top out of necessity rather than out of choice last season. Rooney is the classic trequartista, playing not quite as a midfielder, and not quite as a striker. Berbatov would allow us to play Rooney is his natural position, where he will cause untold damage. No more huffing and puffing, getting frustrated up front. The Rooney who we all know and love, dominating the game from behind a front man. Could be one of the deadliest strike duos around, especially with Rooney being able to run onto the flick ons and delicate first time passes of Berbatov. Carlos Tevez can be our supersub or a starter if the game requires more tenacity. All 3 could work no problem as well.
(3) Berbatov is premiership proven. Alot of other names are being bandied about, but all of them represent a big risk of failure. Berbatov is almost a guaranteed success unless he gets the Saha injury curse. His goal record at Tottenham is superb, despite playing in such a mediocre team, but more impressive is his assist record. He’s right up there with Rooney in terms of assists from open play (best two in the league). Having the best two open-play creators in your team up front? Not bad that, is it?
(4) Cantona nostalgia. Since Eric leaved, there’s been a vacancy for a classy, nonchalant, shoulder shrugging genius. I’m not saying Berbatov could be as good as Cantona, but he certainly has the attributes to become a United cult hero. Who cares if he doesn’t run around like a loon if he scores? Cool as you like Berbatov. We’ll leave the ridiculous OTT celebrations for Tevez and Nani. It would be funny to see what Berbatov would make of Rio Ferdinand doing that leap frog thing he does on the back of every player who scores.
So come on Fergie, sign the Bulgarian genius up. I want to see the breathtaking first touches, I want to see Rooney back to his best, I want a guaranteed premiership success, and I want to get the Cantona nostalgia back. Berbatov to United – make it happen!
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I only read through about 30 or so of the comments from yesterday and I think somebody said `Grognard break your silence´so I assumed you were pissed off at something and had gone, so my bad
I don´t rate Berbatov that highly. He just seems so lethargic and like he wouldn´t be able to keep up with the pace of our team. I think that Fergie may rate Manucho a whole lot more than we do or may have faith in Campbell to step up to the plate. Hull fans were singing his praises last season and I would be sick if he went there and lit up the premier league next season. For one reason or another the youth just hasn´t been coming through our system recently. It probably has something to do with that 90 mile rule thing or the fact that youth throughout England are nowhere near the standard of their european counterparts. But we haven´t even gotten any players of Fletcher and O´Shea standard recently which really worries me.
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@Liam:
I honestly think he’s in no mood for any transfer till July 1st. We’ll have to wait on this one. I really don’t expect any more than one or two additions at best. Even if Cristiano goes.
And I don’t have a problem with that either.
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Grognard – I’ve said this many times. Both SAF and Gill said a month ago that there will be no signings during the Euros (only if they pulled out a coup, which they haven’t), and that they’ll attend matters after, so I don’t get your frustration.
I agree partly that he could be home to sort out the Ronaldo issue, but I’m pretty sure, he won’t let Ronaldo ruin his vacation, which he shouldn’t either. Yes, it’s very important that it’s sorted out, but there’s a whole summer to do so.
About the financial situation. I simply don’t believe that we have no money to sign players. I think we have more than enough. How could we spend so much money last summer and not have any this time, when we’ve just had an incredibly wealthy season? I makes no sense to me. I know, you know a lot about NFL and the financial state of Tampa Bay (or whatever team they own over there), but I think it’s completely different with Manchester. I have no reason to think so, other than what SAF tells me, and that is that the owners have been perfect.
To the people concerned about us not being linked to anyone… were we linked to Anderson last season, or did he just show up suddenly? You cannot go by the papers, because they make up stories to sell stories. They have to, because otherwise their entire foundation would vanish. They live off people believing and hoping through their stories, and it’s sickening.
RR – well done on the new site mate. Congrats from here.
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@Tomas:
Thanks, although the site isn’t exactly “new” but I get your point. Thanks again.
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Liam, i agree that we should give youth a chance but if ronaldo goes we have to replace the goals with a top quality striker and berbatov is that. I do however think we are poor at bringin through youth team players. We seem to produce them but sell them before they even get a chance. Our players always seem to play football elsewhere even if they are released. I like the look of craig cathcart, evans, possebon and of course danny wellbeck from our youth team so far, and would expect to see them have some future at the club.
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@Tomas: Regardless of future transfers, we need to take care of the Ronaldo situation now. Not a week before or during the start of the season. Replacing him and then formulating a game plan for style of attack etc etc takes time to organize and perfect. Trying to make a deal in the 11th hour is tantamount to stupidity in my books. I’m sorry but I don’t like the delay and too many warning signs are popping up for my liking. Meanwhile the rest of the footballing community does not sleep. Lets start counting how many stars will have been signed up before Fergie gets back or before he actually starts to work. Am I wrong? PERHAPS. But what if there is a chance I am right? After all, I picked Germany and Russia for the final. I may look like a wise man after Thursday. My gut feeling is that we are in trouble. Anderson and Nani were not big signings. They were surprise signings. Prospect signings and a bit of a coup. Hargreaves was linked to us for a year. He was ours. There was no secret there. Who is linked to us this year? And are we going to have to settle for young prospects again? I’m tired of prospects. I want young but I want talent that’s semi proven or fully proven. And we aren’t linked to anybody. Either Fergie is the greatest stealth buyer of all time or he is asleep at the wheel while we go over the cliff.
Let him prove me wrong. I dare him!
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@Grognard:
To be honest, lots of players. We are always linked to players. But that’s not the point, is it?
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@Grognard: SAF is on holiday and the tabloids have created the impression that we are the 5th choice team behind, RM,Barca,AC,Inter…? Really. You believe that. A tornado kills people compared to rumours in the Sun tabloid.
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@Tomas:
Maybe we invested alot last year so that we would win this year. We overspent last year and maybe the Glazers allowed it saying it’ll get us success which it did. And now this year we may keep low and not spend alot. Also, we must not forget that 20million have to be kept aside for Tevez’s transfer.
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Just1n; Yes, frankly I do believe that. United have done nothing to disprove my beliefs and to subdue people’s concerns about their financial situation. I think the Glazer’s are over the heads and we will now begin to suffer for it. And I wouldn’t even stop at 5th team. I’d rate Chelsea and even Arsenal as far more attractive destinations for players for cultural, social and economic reasons. The only big team in worse shape than us is Liverpool who also coincidentally have American owners who may have gotten in over their heads and now need Rafa to sell half the team to be able to afford three big players. Also, I for one do not believe for a second that the Glazers will allow Fergie to bench Ronaldo and not play him or at best sell him. They are not in this for the team history, pride or the principle. Fergie needs to wake up to 21st century economics and the way things are being done now. The game is saturated with a mercenary mentality and his old school way of going about the day to day business end of running a team may (and I stress the word MAY) be hurting us.
Look folks, all I’m doing is ranting and bringing forth some concerns I have and that I’m sure others have had too. If I’m dead wrong, no problem. but I won’t be told I’m wrong until it is damned well obvious that I am. Many like to say that my theories are wrong yet they can base it on nothing more than their own gut feelings as well as the team’s past history in doing business. Not good enough I’m afraid. I’m looking for Fergie to take the bull by the horns and make a statement of intent and show us he still has the magic and that all is well with Man Utd. I am distressed by the fact very few of the top transfer targets out there seem to have any interest in playing for us and especially for Fergie. I think cast offs and others have painted a bad picture of Fergie and I honestly think it is hurting us in the regions Fergie seems to be hunting in. Also, no more youth projects please. I want a few big name signings and I want this Ronaldo business taken care of so that the team and it’s followers can move on. Dragging this out until infinitum is not my way of doing business and patching the holes that are starting to leak in your roof. Agree or disagree, I need more proof before I call off my dogs.
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Piper; Excellent excellent point mate. I totally agree with you. I think the Glazer’s overextended themselves last year in order to get Fergie the players he felt were needed to get over the final hurdle. Now that has been accomplished and I think they want to get out of the red and start to pay off that massive debt. Tevez and the unbelievably high transfer cost to keep him is also a problem. I like him but he’s not worth over 20 mil. Cut him lose. We can find a better goal scorer for that amount of money. Sorry Tevez fans, but honestly, he is overpriced. As good as he is, I honestly believe Berbatov, Huntelaar and Podolski are better than him. That’s just my opinion so don’t jump down my neck over it. We all see players and their talent levels and contributions differently. Also, Finally sell Saha for Christ’s sake. And maybe it’s time to do a little more house cleaning like Liverpool. Not drastic, just a little dusting to free up some more cash, before the end of the decade.
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Correct me if I’m wrong, but I heard that we did not pay money up front for one (or more) of our signings last year (primarily Hargreaves) due to the transfer/s happening just before the tax year finished or something like that, and so we owe Bayern Munich the full transfer fee for Hargo this summer (new tax year). If the same is true for Nani & Anderson, that would mean £50m would be gone from our summer war chest and consequently we would have very little left in the transfer kitty. This is just my theory behind as to why we have been so inactive on the transfer front – but again, like I said, please feel free to contradict me.
RR – great improvements to the site. Good work!
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@Grognard:
Many like to say that my theories are wrong yet they can base it on nothing more than their own gut feelings as well as the team’s past history in doing business. Not good enough I’m afraid.
Fact is, even you are basing it on gut feelings. You say turmoil, but it’s clearly not obvious; nor is there proof. You say Fergie doesn’t care — clearly there is no way of being certain of that. You say these were your concerns — but put it across like an assertion.
So really, before I decide to question any of what you’ve said, (not that I haven’t already) I want to know this: do you firmly believe in what you are saying, or are you throwing some thoughts around that others “may” have? I’m asking this because you’ve said both of these things.
Kindly elaborate.
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Furthermore, in addition to my previous point, I am also under the impression that we are still paying for Rio and Rooney as part of their respective transfer deals. I’m pretty sure both of them had add-ons, based on the future success of Man Utd, and seeing as we won the Double this year, this could also have eaten away at a small chunk of our transfer budget this summer.
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Yep Grognard I disagree with your points about Fergie, and I think you are overreacting and need to calm down. The Fergster deserves an extended break at his age, and after the season he’s had, no one should begrudge the boss that. Also, to be honest there have not been any major transfer deals completed by any of the European powerhouses as of yet (except Barca, and the potential signing of Nasri by Arsenal), so I do not see what you are worried about. Like RR says, the major transfer action, domestically and across Europe, will happen from the 1st July, when SAF & Gill are back, and the Euros are concluded. I also agree with RR that you are basing your points on nothing but gut feelings when there is no concrete evidence to justify what you are saying.
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@Nino: To clarify so that what I said doesn’t get taken out of context, we are all saying things on gut feelings right now.
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@Red Ranter: True say, but I would actually elaborate on your point further and say that no one should say anything until the 1st of July. It’s useless to make assumptions and speculate about things that we supporters know nothing about, such as the inner workings of Old Trafford. It’s a complete waste of time and energy. Like I said, unless there’s concrete evidence, I think it’s best to keep our mouths shut.
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@Nino:
Again, there’s where you go wrong. We can’t stop telling people to not say anything. This is the season of speculation. So you can’t tell people not to tell something. That’s up to them.
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I personally think Berba is a great player, he has all of the quality that would be a joy to watch, but just like my complaint on Ashirvin or whatever the Russian, he is not the type of striker that we need for next year. Both berba and the russian like to drop deep to link the midfield with the attack, which as everyone here knows we already have two players who are some of the best in the world at doing that job. So why would be waste 30 million on what we dont need?
I think we need a striker who will lead the line and play off the shoulder of the last defender. Someone with real pace that defenders will have to respect, thus giving rooney or tevez more space and time to operate in. Preferably he would be good in the air as well, just so we can have a change of attack if theings arent going well in the 80th min against Bolton.
We need to adress needs in the team with our signings, not jsut the best players from other teams. Thats what chelski and galaticos do. We need to build and improve the team. And buying berba just donestn change things in my opinion
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@Red Ranter: Again RR, fair point, but that’s just my opinion and I can categorically state that you won’t catch me speculating about bulls**t on this site this summer, as I feel that it is a total waste of time. Speculation is what fuels tabloids (a pet hate of mine!) and I feel strongly against such dilatory pasttimes. If other people want to speculate about whatever, thats up to them. You’re right, neither you nor I can stop them from doing so. But I prefer to talk and discuss about more concrete issues.
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everyone just needs to chill, what you think that SAF went to a resort with no telephones? come on, i carn’t believe some people are questioning his methods? just because we haven’t snapped up two young kids like last year (when we actually HAVE already got that italian kid) everyone feels the need to panic… look at the other clubs in the premiership if you don’t believe me… i can think off the top of my head that bosingwa and ramesy have been bought in, thats it for the whole 20 teams.
personally considering we earned around £30 million just from winning and participating in the champions league alone means its bullshit that we don’t have any to spend. we do and even if we do have it.. why the urgency to blow it?
yes i think the ronaldo saga has an important part to play in who we bring in, but im sure SAF would have had a list before then and even now.. (he’s [probably sat next to the pool with his laptop playing FM as we speak)
also i think we might be waiting for bids on saha… if he is gonna stick around it won’t make much sense to have him moaping around whislt another striker gets in the team ahead of him..i just want him sold.
i wish scolari had stayed as portugal coach, then the stuff about CQ wouldn’t have been raised.. personally i think he is the best person to have concerning ronaldo… same language good friend.. and most importantly… has tried the Real dream.. and got booted back down to earth, more benift to us.
the only concern i do have is that SAF does think that Giggs can go on until hes 38 or whatever… personally i doubt he will have another season after this one… i just hope we find a suitable replacement..to share the wing with Nani
also, great update on the comment box’s Red Ranter.. is it me or are you leaving more than your usual amount of comments
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Considering Gill has said no signings would be made after the Euro’s, i’m not worried, though i might be if by middle of July, nothing meaningful’s happened yet. To everyone saying we’re not being linked to people, we’re being linked to almost every player who has a iwff of the goal post. Also i don’t think if we were in a dire situation financially in the transfer market, Fergie would be in France right now. I still believe we’ll get at least ONE big name and i’m sure Fergie will get right to work next Monday. Fans should stop being doom and gloom about everything and lest be realistic, even if we don’t sign anyone, i can bet my life, we’re NOT falling outta the top 3, its not naivistic(not a word) optimism, i just believe the team with or without Ronaldo, has that much potential.
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RedAddict #51 comment said it all for me!
Absolutely agree, Signing Berba would make Ronni leaving feel a little better!
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Red Ranter; I’m truly torn both ways but if I was forced into a corner I guess I do believe in those assertions I’m making. They are gut feeling assertions based on the evidence or in some cases lack of evidence on hand. I honestly believe their is a financial crisis at OT and the team is going to suffer from it. Add to that all the back ended deals in paying for players years after they have arrived and the possibility that Nino’s assertion is right, the team seems to be in a royal mess.
Nino; When we start saying the Boss needs an extended vacation at his age then I suggest the time has come for him to retire. Football is a highly competitive and cutthroat business. There is no room for sentiment and old fashioned ideals. Football is not a school term or a tv series where they finish up and go on hiatus. If he is too old to run in the fast lane, then retire. I love the boss but you know, I certainly don’t appreciate it when a manager sleeps while all around him is in chaos. Ronaldo has caused chaos and uncertainty in our ranks and we need a leader that will immediately take charge and put an end to the nonsense and not go on holidays when the team is in peril. Did Maggie Thatcher take a holiday when the Falkland Islands situation began? How about Winston Churchill? Did he take a break while bombs were falling on London? Did JFK ask for a holiday when the Octobe Missile crisis happened? I think you get my point. Sure those are extreme life threatening examples but for United fans, the livelihood and success of Man Utd is vital and very important to us die hard supporters. Owners, managers and accountants must be present and accountable for Christs sake.
It must be obvious to many of you who read my posts that I am not the most patient guy on the planet.
So really, I don’t appreciate being told to chill out, relax, calm down etc. Although I don’t take offense to it, I don’t appreciate it because relaxing and chilling out is not part of my DNA. Before I hurt my back I was a workaholic who believed in getting the job done and never leaving anything to risk. Whether it was my own business or working for others, I never let things get out of hand and I was always there in a moment of crisis. Right now United is in a major moment of crisis. Ronaldo is threatening to unsettle this club and our financial status is unclear. Therefore, it is not unreasonable nor is it wrong for some of us like myself to start to question Fergie, the Glazer’s and Gill about what the Hell is going on? Better yet question them over why the Hell NOTHING is going on? July 1st is too long for me to wait but I guess I have no choice. Nobody listened to warnings regarding the Titanic either. And it was considered unsinkable.
And really RR, why should people like myself keep our mouths shut? Is this not a site to rant and bitch about our favorite team and sport?
Is ranting only supposed to be positive without ever CONSIDERING the negative? I have never said I am absolutely right about what I say, but I do believe that many of my thoughts have validity. Instead they get put down by many because there are those who cannot handle negative thoughts or who suffer from denial. Trust me, I’d rather be proven wrong than proven right here. I doubt the majority would feel as good about being proven wrong should I in fact be found to be correct in all this. Only time will tell. Until then, I have to conjure up some patience. Easier said than done. At least I still have my Germans to cheer on.
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Nino; “But I prefer to talk and discuss about more concrete issues.” Then why don’t you start something by offering up some topics that you find interesting. I’m all for getting away from all this but mark my words, somebody else (not me) will bring us back to it. People are obsessed with Ronaldo and the transfer season and there is nothing you or me or anybody else can do about it. Just deal with it and offer up some topics to change the subject rather than just complain.
I’m all for a new subject and direction in conversations.
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@Drew Vader: I personally think you’re right.
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The only positive we have in all of this is that many players will not commit to any team until after the Euros because they all have smart enough agents who want to hear all offers. So even if this is coming from Mr. Pessimism, there is light at the end of the tunnel and a reason for some optimism. But Ronaldo is the problem I am most worried about.
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@Grognard: And really RR, why should people like myself keep our mouths shut? Is this not a site to rant and bitch about our favorite team and sport?
And when, pray, did I tell anyone to shut up?
Talk as much as you want, but don’t tell me the same thing about being allowed to rant and bitch. I’ve never stopped people from doing that and it’s annoying being told the same thing despite me giving commenters a free reign in that department.
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I’m kinda shocked grognard doesn’t thing tevez is worth the money. Which got me thinking… How many of you agree with grogs and how many think he is worth the money? I personally think he has earned every paycheck do far at United and his work rate and clutch goals alone justify his pricetag.
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i agree johnson, i was very surprised when he said that. That logic of get rid of tevez to save the 20 mil he will cost, just to turn around spend that same amount, if not more, on an unproven player that he through out like podolski or huntelar who have never played in the leauge. That doesnt make any sense at all to me. Lets wrap up the player who was absolutly instrumental to winning the double, just ask fergie who likened him to one King Cantona by the way, instead of blowing it on someone who we have no idea how they will gel or perform in our side. We already know about Carlitos, and frankly, i dont see too many to complain about. And saying poldolski is better when he sits the bench at bayern is beyond comprehension. And who the hell knows how good Huntelar really is. As we’ve seen many a time, scoring for fun in the dutch league is a different kettle of fish to the Prem. So again, i will put my faith in Carlitos.
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@Red Ranter: cool!
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Wait a minute. Carlos Tevez, ummm…wow. I notice nobody says “fuck Rooney” he’s not worth it. Yet, looking at statistics, Carlos Tevez had a better season than Rooney. We all love Rooney for his attitude. How was Tevez’s attitude or work-rate andy different? To quote Fergie: “He was immense in keeping West Ham up last season.” I think he was pretty damned immense in helping us winning the Premier League. The only reason that people want to slot him as a “super-sub” is because he seems like the only player that’s being tossed around that would gratefully accept that role. That fantastic attitude shouldn’t be punished, it should be rewarded. After reading everybody toss Ronaldo aside for his disloyalty, I think it’s absurd to “offload” someone who has expressed nothing but loyalty and dedication to the club. Oh yeah, and he’s a pretty damned good striker as well (see…like pretty much every game this season for proof). Grognard, I think you’re a pretty sharp commenter, but for the first time I couldn’t disagree with you more. Sorry.
0i
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With so much said about SAF’s supposed non involvement in the CR aggravation I would like to add an alternate viewpoint.
The situation has become increasingly inflamed day in and day out. The press have whipped up a fury of speculation based upon what CR has said, what it could possibly mean and how it will possibly end up. Madrid and its press whores have reveled in the speculation – unsettling the lad, unsettling the club and for what I have read here, unsettling the supporters. Their goal is plain for all to see – give us no alternative but to sell and of course now, in their infinite pomposity, they will name their own price to boot!
SAF is probably chomping at the bit – ready to crank up the hair-dryer for all ages – ready to take the money and run buy a whole team of Euro 2008 allstars – ready to show the whole football world who is in charge here. Does he?, no, he continues his holiday – why?
First of all what good would his intervention be at this point? It would only add a very contentious additional party to the affray – with the sides already becoming increasingly bitter and polarized, this would seem to be of no use.
Secondly CQ has been very influential in the CR/United relationship so far. He should be given the first crack at finding out what truly is in the lads heart. He will know, with all the nuances of the Portuguese language, what in the hell he wants for his future. From reports today CQ has begun with some overtures to the lad.
Lastly. it’s become a situation that seems to irritate just about everyone that comments upon it. We all want it to go away but the resolution appears drastic and final. Can it be that just six weeks from our finest moment in some nine years we are ready to jettison our best player. SAF probably thinks otherwise!
With the best interests of the club at heart, I believe SAF is treating this like a minor skin irritation, an insect bite, a rash on the face. He knows that for now the best thing to do is – DO NOTHING!! Don’t scratch it, leave it alone, given time the inflammation will go down and it won’t itch anymore. In the meantime a liberal slathering of the cool CQ balm will not hurt anyone.
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RR; That didn’t come out the way I intended. What I was basically saying was that I was asking you for backup to confirm what I was saying was correct. I wasn’t actually accusing you, although after reading it I can see why you thought so. Forgive me, I was tired.
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johnsom33 & Drew Vader; Look guys, we can’t all agree on players. We all have different things that about players that float our boats. I for one like Tevez and I think he is a valuable player to have. However, I have many times in the past said that I would prefer him in Solksjaer role as a super sub because I think he is very good in that role. He is not worth the price of over 20 million pounds. My evaluation of Tevez is around 15 Mil. He is a good player with great desire and heart but he is not prolific enough of a goal scorer. Also, there is not one specific skill that he excels at other than being a pest. Huntelaar, Berbatov, Benzema, and some others are worth 20+ million. They are either prolific goal scorers or have tremendous all round abilities like Berbatov. It’s great to love a player and appreciate his effort and his attitude but I don’t let that blind me from the fact that he seems rather limited to me and that his skill set is not so great as to fully rely on him as a lone striker if necessary. Only a player with outstanding first touch skills, goal poaching ability and the ability to rule in the air makes a player worth more than that. Tevez is like a jack of all trades. He does a lot of things well but nothing exceptionally well. Sorry but that’s the way I see him. We all have different grading principles and I respect that. For me he is a super sub, not a starter for United.
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Drew; Tevez likened to King Cantona? That’s rich! If Fergie said that he must have just come out of his wine cellar. That’s bloody hilarious as well as insulting to the King
Also; would you like a list of the hundreds and hundreds of foreign players who have come to play in England without your so called experience only to be considered fantastic and world class once they arrived? Did Ruud, Bergamp, van Basten, Gullit, Cruyff and many more also not come from the Eriedivisie? How different was van Nistelrooy’s situation when coming to England than Huntelaar? One, he was coming off major knee surgery. More serious I think and less reason to feel confident than your evaluation of Huntelaar I’, afraid. Not a valid argument at all.
Sometimes it’s great to have an open mind it’s nice to leave your neighborhood and experience a foreign dish. Was Tevez not a foreigner just two years ago? Jee it’s kind of funny he is accepted but a Dutchman isn’t. Dutch players are just as skilled and even more technically trained than Argentines. And regarding Podolski, Tevez would also sit on the bench at Bayern if he had Toni and Klose on the same team. He’s not in either of those two’s class. Yet again another weak argument. And of course you don’t know how good Huntelaar is, because you’ve hardly ever seen him play. I on the other hand feel very confident about his skill set and over abilities having watched him dozens of time for both Ajax and several times for Holland. That’s not being elitist, that’s just being more informed. Frankly put, he is a stud. van Basten hardly playing him in the Euros is a knock against van Basten, not Huntelaar. Honestly, would you feel this way if Tevez was a West Ham player? His attachment to United I think makes a lot of supporters love him and consider him greater than he actually is out of loyalty and respect and good old home bias. Understandable and expected I guess. I’m just not like that. I see his weaknesses and I feel I know strikers out there who could do better for us, score more goals and make Wayne Rooney a better player in the process. For me that is worth over 20 million pounds or more. I’m not saying get rid of him if you could sign him for less money. I just don’t think he’s worth 20 mil. So criticize away, it’s not going to change my way of thinking.
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laimb; That’s fine mate. That’s your right. We can’t always agree. And sorry but regardless of Rooney’s average season, he is a much more complete player than Tevez. And again I stress, when I say that that does not mean that Tevez is not a good player. He is, he’s just not worth 20 mil and he’s not as good as Rooney.
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Check this out…Funny as hell
http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/2008/06/cristiano_ronal_32.html
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Grognard – u r just obsessed with huntelaar and Gomez.. i wud take carlitos over both, any day just for his workrate and is proven is premiership..there is no guarantee that huntelaar is gonna a goal scorer in EPL neither is gomez…so replacing tevez with hutelaar is not the answer..adding huntelar along with tevez ia what we need to do ! and on lack of tranfer activity – come on let the boss take a vacation. he deseves a break,,at the age of 66 ,do u honestly believe one month break is enough ? i will be happy even if no tranfer is happening this summer.. but if we ronaldo leaves,we would need to change the structure of the team itself ! if he stays may be a backup defender ..thats it ! with manucho back adn with saha staying ,we are well covered there as well !
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Manucho and Saha!! thats comforting, I hope we can do better than that up front next season
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Tevez honors
Olympic medal record
Men’s Football
Gold 2004 Athens ARG
Manchester United
* UEFA Champions League: 2007-08
* Barclays Premier League: 2007-08
Corinthians
* Campeonato Brasileiro Série A: 2005
Boca Juniors
* Copa Sudamericana: 2004
* Intercontinental Cup: 2003
* Argentine Apertura: 2003
* Copa Libertadores: 2003
Country
* Olympic gold medal: 2004
* South American under-20 Championship: 2003
Individual
* Copa Libertadores Most Valuable Player: 2003
* Silver Olimpia (Argentine Footballer of the Year): 2003, 2004
* Golden Olimpia (Argentine Sports-person of the Year): 2004
* Olympic Golden Boot: 2004
* CBF Campeonato Brasileiro Best Player: 2005
* Placar Bola de Ouro: 2005
* South American Footballer of the Year: 2003, 2004, 2005
Besides club honors I think Tevez individual honors speaks volumes of the players quality.
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@Grognard:
I rate Tevez over 20m. He is very much under-rated. The fact that CR7 stole much of the limelight in Tevez’ first season also did not help. I cannot say for sure though if he is better than Rooney or not because they are quite different. You mentioned that Tevez is good at nothing…well, I have yet to see a striker hold up the ball better than Tevez. Not even Ruud does it better. Tevez never seems to lose posession. He is like a Benni McCarthy when he’s on song, you can trust him with any ball, he’ll keep it for you.
Huntelaar…I’m sorry, I don’t rate him at all (even if United sign him).
I admit I have not seen much of him, but what I did see was that he is an exceptional poacher (like Ruud), but pretty ineffective in normal play. He stays out of matches for long periods of time and does not contribute jack. I personally think we would be better off with Ruud who at least makes a nuisance of himself to defenders.
While we’re on the topic of Dutchmen, for those of you craving for Sneider, I seriously belive he is a wrong choice. The last few games he played as if he had something to prove and ended up taking most of the shots (just like CR7). Should we sign him in a swap deal with Real, we would definitely be taking a step back by replacing one selfish player with another (that is not as good as the one he replaces). I would then rather opt for a team player like for example VDV.
Lastly, I feel SAF thouroughly deserves his holiday. He just gave us a major double. That was no easy feat and he deserves the rest. CR7 aint going nowhere because United holds the aces. Why should he cut his holiday short just because one prick want to create a storm? Can you imagine what message that would give off in the dressing room?
I firmly believe that should we sign no one, and CR7 leaves, we will still be fine.
Hopefully Anderson ‘s penalty will give him enough confidence to start taking proper shots. If that happens, we will have 2 new players in him and Nani who will feel much more settled this season. Also Tevez should feel more confident this season. I honestly think we’ll be fine. Besides, geting a new striker would be the same risk as taking on Wellbeck. Why not then use him or Campbel? That said, I would love to see Berba just because I crave another Cantona. I hope he can live up to the hype if he comes.
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Grog
Tevez was exceptional to our retaining the EPL title and winning the champions leage.I for one do not give a f*** how much it will cost to make his deal permanent.Adding Berbatov to the Rooney/Tevez line up is the dream,not axing Tevez.Crucial goals,Hard work and tireless play(CL final)…I really dont have to say more
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He is good but £20m is a lot I must say.
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ok Red ranter just a suggestion but could you come up with a way for one to skip posts that i either reador when i last posted.Thanks
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@Stephen:
Worth every penny imo. Look at my post 92. He is a awesome player.
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I agree he is awesome, I love him mate, but if HE stays and we buy another stiker he probably will be used as an impact sub a la Ole, so £20m for a sub is a lot I think.
But if Fergie Plays him week in week out then yes he is prob worth the money, get my drift?
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Just1n; Consider how many of South America’s great footballers have played in South America well past their first couple of seasons. He wins those awards by default. Also, I don’t rate South America with Europe at all after all their greatest talent plays over in Europe.
If he is so bloody great, why can’t he get starting eleven status for Argentina regularly? Because he is not better than three or four other Argentines. And throwing team awards does not amount to a hill of beans. Louis Saha has many of those awards too. And he has been in hospital for the past 5 years.
Bond; Where in my recent e-mails have I rated Gomez as high as Huntelaar? Where? Not even close. I like him but I’d rather have Huntelaar, Villa, Berbatov, Podolski, and a few others over him. Workrate for me is not a major issue for a striker. In fact running to hard and tracking back leads to more fatigue, yellow cards and loss of first touch and finishing skills due to fatigue. I’d rather he lived more in the 18 yard box and latched on to passes and crosses.
Karl; You are to used to the Rooney types that work their socks off and are everywhere. That’s not the role of a striker. In fact most great strikers are fairly anonymous for large parts of a game but when those two or three quality moments arrive, they are there to poach and score. RVN was no different than any of those types. And once again you are like a few others guilty of condemning Huntelaar while admitting to not have watched him much at all. Not fair at all mate. Watch the player and you will see a supremely skilled and gifted striker who can score incredible goals from distance, half, chances, with both feet, acrobatically, in the air or just with poachers goal scoring instinct. Tevez has very little if any of those specific traits I just called off. What Tevez has is work rate (GOD HOW BORING!),
desire and a flair for the dramatic late goal. He is not a consummate goal scorer and that is what we need and what Rooney especially needs to play off of. Work rate and the blue collar traits may attract a lot of you but I much prefer raw talent and an ability to put the bulge in the old onion bag on a consistent level. Wasting excess energy doing all the things that fire some up but get very little accomplished in the area of scoring goals is for the birds I’m afraid. I’ll take a Gerd Mueller type over a Carlos Tevez type every day of the week.
WhiteY; You may not give a F$#$ about how much it costs to sign Tevez but believe me, United gives a f$#%. They will not pay more than what he is worth. And I would also like to see him stay and team up with Rooney and either Berbatov or Huntelaar. I just don’t want them to overpay for him that’s all.
Stephen; Regarding your post #98, WELL SAID. Exactly my feelings and I wish others could see that to. Far too much for a super sub. And when, not if we buy the other big name striker, Tevez will have to sit a lot. Now ask yourselves this question, is he worth 20 mil+ if he is a super sub? Who knows, maybe Fergie will place him on the LW as a replacement for Ronaldo and move Nani tot he RMF/RW side. Who really knows?
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The reason the Fergie is looking for a top striker and not just a third striker is he want s more presence in the box, more height and more goals. If he thought he was getting that from Tevez, would there be all this talk about Huntelaar, Berbatov etc? Tevez is a Hobbit and this team needs a larger and more significant goal scoring threat.
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