Oct 26
Liverpool outplay poor United
Let’s make no pretence about this: we were beaten fair and square by Liverpool. We can talk all we want about refereeing incompetence; true there were a few errors but the crucial ones were offset on the other side too. Nothing however disguises the fact that yesterday was a defeat that was fully deserved.
This makes it a hat trick of Liverpool wins and that’s what makes it hard to stomach.
I was a little more sympathetic towards our 4-1 defeat because I felt it was conceded as a result of a lot of individual errors, and didn’t exactly reflect our competitiveness and dominance on the pitch. Yesterday there was little scope for excuses.
I have to commend Ferguson for being brave in his tactics at the start though. He went with a 4-4-2 away from home. It’s great to see the man wanting to go for it with the current ‘mini-crisis’ at Liverpool. However, it seemed obvious as the match wore on — shockingly so — that our midfield weren’t up to it. It’s a recurring theme this season — and will remain true for a while, I’m sure — that our midfield needs muscle. Carrick has regressed this season [decent performances in Europe don't always cut it] and Scholes, with his age, cannot always be trusted to last 60 minutes against the bigger opposition. He’s blown hot and cold this season, and it’s not really his fault that he’s considered the first choice over other prospective members in the midfield.
What was a sad sight however, was to see a midfield of Lucas and Mascherano, not really in his best form so far, dominate the midfield, cutting off the supply lines to our strikers.
Which brings us to our attack. Rooney slaved away up front, but there’s little he could do if he doesn’t get the support he needs. Berbatov is a static player by nature. He needs mobility around him to work. And if that’s not there, then he’ll only inhibit our style. As much as the management will insist he’s fantastic, and classy, and that he doesn’t have to run always, there were moments when trying to bust a gut would have helped. We can make excuses for him and say he’s not getting help. Or we could say he’s not dynamic enough. Either of those points of view means he isn’t necessarily a fit for us. Yet. Berbatov does need help from the midfield, but he doesn’t make it easier either.
Giggs had an off day, and for a 36 year old, he is entitled to have off days. However Valencia on the other side played his heart out. I thought he was a bright spark, both in attack, and defensively. He was unfortunate to hit the bar from a tight angle.
Fernando Torres showed what a striker could do if he worked the channels tirelessly. He beat Ferdinand for pace clearly, but our defensive line had to share part of the blame. Two years ago, Rio had Torres firmly ensconced in his back pocket. The drop in Rio’s pace has been stark this season. However this is not to take any credit away from Torres’s goal.
The talking points undoubtedly will come down to refereeing. I was shocked how Lucas got away the whole match without a card, I won’t however make a big deal about Giggs being nudged in the area. Carragher’s tackle on Carrick was a dead-on penalty, but we could make the same case of Kuyt being brought down by Berbatov in the area. I thought Vidic’s first yellow was a bit soft although we’ve seen them given in the past, whilst Carragher should have seen red for bringing down Owen. None of them however was game changing, potentially. Arsenal fans, earlier in the season, would have been aggrieved at Fletcher getting away with a lot of fouls in that game, but we saw very little reason to complain then. I can’t see why we should now.
We’ve been Champions for three seasons in a row, and many more times in Ferguson’s tenure. And much of that is because we’ve made our own luck. Yesterday wasn’t even close to that day, and how we bounce back has a lot to do with how the players view yesterday’s defeat. The positives to take from yesterday, however, is everyone in the top four (or close to it, barring Chelsea) — Arsenal, Spurs, Man City — have dropped points. And that’s some portion of luck we’ll have to take and make full use of.
Related items from Red Rants:- United Get the Job Done, Just
- Portsmouth Preview
- Liverpool’s ‘Match-Fixing’, and the FA Cup Cockup
- Why Heinze Won’t Go to Liverpool
- United Players out of Favour With Supporters
Tags: Match Reports
October 26th, 2009 at 8:15
i thought saf made the subs far too late. i thought in one passage of play owen did more than berbatov did the whole game. nani lacks confidence. he had a good oppoertunity and his shot was without any venom it was a pass to the keeper. another time he didnt shoot. berbatov needs a new role in utd. maybe he should be played as a midfielder who directs the traffic or better still transferred in january. only some key signings in january will aallow utd to challenge this year. apert from 2 games i think w’ve been lucky. i agree this is unsual season with top teams dropping points.
October 26th, 2009 at 8:57
Its very simple in essence, O shea is the worlds most useless right back going forward, never made himself available for a single overlap.
Why Anderson did not start is beyond me, Scholes and Carrick are done for!!! Rather play Gibson, he would have done a much better jog, I aint sure about you guys but the thing that is really lacking is hunger and passion, look into the eyes of Scholes, Carrick, What do you see? Absolutely nothing.
Our problems with our forwards is simple, all of them play with their backs to goal, no direct running no movement, no eye for goal, they dont even shoot for heavens sake, bar Owen of course, our only real striker. I still wonder if Rooney should play as a CAM, he has good passing and vision and can improve his shooting , not to mention his work ethic.
Sir Alex can be frustrating at times, but what can we do. People talk about Hargreaves returning, but that wont help us, for fletcher does the job he does. All games are won in midfield unless you by pass the midfield by playing route one football. United lack a playmaker, its as simple as that. And we will continue to lose midfield battles without one.
October 26th, 2009 at 9:46
We lost fair and square. But I still agree that somme of the decisions that the referee didn’t give could as well have changed the game. Had Carragher’s trip on Carrick given, United would have taken the lead and this should have changed the destiny of the game. Had Carragher been red carded for his physical assault on Owen, the Reds could have panicked without him and probably United could have scored. SAF should explain why Anderson did not start. And even when he did the subs he decided to take Giggs into the centre instead of bringing on Anderson. However, the thing is how do we respond from here. We meet Blackburn this weekend at home before another Big clash away at Stamford Bridge.
October 26th, 2009 at 9:53
SAF made 2 critical errors in my view. He should have started with Nani on the left, and Giggs down the centre(where he has been the most effective in the last 2 seasons) with Scholes on the bench, and he left his substitutions way to late. We all critisize Nani for not really producing what he promises, but I believe that he needs an extended time in the team and he will deliver. We can’t expect Owen and Nani to miraculously turn the game around and win it for us in 15 minutes. We were very much below par and if we don’t sort out our midfield we will be in toruble this season…
October 26th, 2009 at 10:23
Bottom line for me is that Fergie is scared to play our future team, and is playing our past team. That has to be for one of two reasons:
1. The future team (Ando, Nani, Rafael, Evans) are not good enough
2. Fergie lacks the cajones
I’m not sure which would depress me more.
October 26th, 2009 at 10:48
I have had it upto here!(top of the head) with the fooking useless pieces of shit we are to call referees in this country. They are shit and the FA needs to stop handing out bans and actually fix the source of all the bans (fucked up refereeing) retrain the damn lot. Take them for a working holiday to the continent to see how the job is done properly. Bruno was fooking diving all over like a bitch he is and Evra paid the price for this prick falling over his own feet. I have watched it over and over again looking for that illusive touch from Evra and it just never comes yet the ref hands out a Yellow. Lucas tries to butcher everyone and the ref can’t see a problem. Bruno is an excellent striker but he’s far too much like the big bitch that is Ronaldo. Geniuses who act like fairies. Yes we played like chumps but when we did try to pick ourselves up the ref was there again kicking us back down. The guy was blatantley bias towards liverpool in his decisions and i wont hear otherwise. I dont follow blindly but i will not berate the team for feeling completely pissed off with the so called authority figures in the game. Why Fergie did not demand the fourth official step in to relieve the useless twat of his whistle i don’t know. All the player (barr liverpool ones) were voicing their objections to the useless one. Rooney even said something to the fourth official. Ref’s want respect??? well fooking do your job correctly and efficiently and you may just get it.(mistakes do happen but not that many in one game oh wait chelsea vs barca ok doesn’t happen that often) continue as you are and you can go fook yourselves!! COngrats to Liverpool well faught and deserved the win even with a little FA intervention. Lucas must have pissed himself after the game, all those fouls and not 1 card, yes fletch got away with a lot but his fouls weren’t as bad nor as blatant. The Ref gave the bare minimum in cards to Liverpool. Carragher should have seen red, Mascherano (spelling?) Got his first yellow deservedly and because the Ref felt the pressure to actually book a liverpool player and then His second yellow?? It should have been a straight red not just a Yellow to result in a red. A second yellow clears his slate after a ban but a red would mean a ban and a yellow still on the slate. I was this particular ref’s first big 4 game. What the hell were they thinking giving him this game, far too much rivalry. Arsenal vs Liv/Man utd would have been the better option, less intense.
rant over.
October 26th, 2009 at 11:32
A well written and honest post.
United were really poor yesterday, lacked ideas and inspiration and seemed sluggish from the start, except for a final 10 minute burst. VDS had a decent game in the nets and Valencia continues to look like a reasonable buy, I’m particularly please that he’s started having a crack at goal and on another day he would have scored. With the exception of the admittedly excellent Torres, Liverpool played like a team struggling to escape the bottom half of the league, they were full of battling spirit, closed United down and worked hard, but they are a poor team really and the fact that United couldn’t rip them to pieces is bloody annoying to say the least.
October 26th, 2009 at 11:49
@Miguel: Agree. Giggs didnt just have an off day, he just cant cut it any more down the wings. He should of played in a central role.
What pisses me off the most about yesterday and for quite some time now is that there is no real passion in this team. Some players have a bit but not nearly enough. Liverpool were desperate, absolutely desperate to win yesterday but utd weren’t. Why? That is twice already this season were we have surrendered the lead at the top when we should easily have extended it. No drive, no bite, no anything from that horrible midfield.
People have mentioned that the return of hargreaves will help and I agree to some extent but he is not the answer to our problem(s).
Also I fear this new kid Ljaji? is being hyped up too much. He could be fantastic but the reality is that he’l be a bit part player and will be heavily rotated in a squad full of mediocre midfielders.
I also fear for this kid. He seems to have a lot of talent and I’m not to sure if the current culture at utd might be right for him. I know I’ll get ridiculed for that one but take for example Anderson. He probably came to united believing he had made it and rightly so and worked his socks off to impress and had a fantastic first season. But he hasn’t replicated that following that great start. It has to be the sissy, pampered lifestyle that this club gives its players. They have made it and certainly feel they do not have to put in the hard work any more. With Anderson it has been well noted that he barely puts the effort in at training.
This pampered lifestyle makes me cringe. Evra never shuts the fuck up about it. How they have a personal assistant to help them change, for example, a flat tire and a light bulb. I dont know how true these stories are but I wouldn’t be fucking surprised. Why I should expect these players, especially in midfield, to even make an effort – to tackle, to hussle, to attempt to play some kind of football – when they cant even change a light bulb is beyond me.
Ferdinand’s mind is not 100% with united. With producing movies and running his wank online mag how can it be? I’m not doubting his commitment to this club but his mind is wandering in more directions than it usually is.
I don’t think we’l be in too bad a position come the end of the season though but it will be a season of boring, negative football. We’l certainly not finish outside the top four but fergie needs to get his head sorted and be more aggressive if he wants to actually win trophies.
October 26th, 2009 at 12:38
Nani is absolutly terrible.. Its crazy how he is playing at this level, I am really sick of hearing people saying “give him a chance” , this is propessional football where these guys make tens of thousands of pounds a week. Imaging being hired by a huge company with a salery of 50 grand a week and you came into work one day and made a bit of an effort and the next you just couldnt be botherd. I am sick of paying for these idiots through expensive tv subscriptions . This united team is lacking big time this year and they need a belt of reality to get things moving again. Even rooneys workrate was poor in my view. Carrick , Nani, Scholes, are all not up to it at this level.
October 26th, 2009 at 13:28
@mick: Dude, Nani played for 20 min! And yeah, he can be frustrating but, the weird and the unfair thing is the new guy Valencia is getting more games than him. And now Valencia seems to be doing well. What you are saying would be fair if Nani was played consistently. Agree with you about Carrick though. I was never a big fan of his play. It was traumatizing to see Scholes on the pitch even when we were 1 goal down.
October 26th, 2009 at 13:35
Simply a great performance. No way Carragher should have seen red either.
Great pics from the game here, btw – http://tinyurl.com/yjvnguc
October 26th, 2009 at 13:42
We were def beaten by the better team on the day. We were just not hungry enough. Even Rooney didnt seem up for it. And dont think we can really have any complaints about the ref. I think what we need to do is sell Nani first thing in january and buy big during the window. We need to get players in who havent won the premier league yet and are hungry to do so. We should look to spend some of the ronaldo money. And I know this is a long shot but I read in the (Irish) Sunday Tribune an interview with Messi and he said if he had the choice to play with any other player on the planet it would be Wayne Rooney. But even if we could convince him to come, barca put a €300 Million buy out clause in his last contract if any club wants to buy him.
October 26th, 2009 at 13:44
I felt this loss was coming, I had a gut feeling about it, I’ll from today trust my 6th sense more and in future I’ll write draft rants so when we loose I’ll just copy paste my comments on here. I’t doesn’t matter but whenever we loose, its because of the midfield and scholes is in it 90% of the time.
Fergie should just quit, yeah I said it, it had to be said. He is wrong too many times for my liking, and the frequency at which he errs in his decisions is increasing with each passing week. He has never been a master tactician but he would get at least 10 right before getting 1 wrong. these days its 1 right 1 wrong and he never seems to get it into his thick skull that some of his golden boys are over the hill has-beens. He should be sacked by the glazers and take scholes with him, I’m so fucking tired of seeing scholes in our line up I think I’ll one day hit my T.V. screen. Where are the repercussions for crazy behavior, that red card was probably applauded by fergie. Paul fuckin scholes is officially dead to me, I will never think of him as a united great and I will use his poor play over the last two years as ammunition. How a player can’t realize that his continued involvement is hurting the club baffles me. He should quit club football and join coaching.
This is a shite team, a team not worth the time I give it every week, How I miss ronny, how I wish it’s all been a long unwinding dream and I will wake up tomorrow and find ronnie is still with us. But alas, that that little pinch just proved that my lovely united has gone from world beaters 16 months ago to a mid-table team.
For all you glass half-full types, saying it’s not so bad I want to point out two things, reading were once number two in the EPL,hell even hull were table toppers at some point yet by the end of the season they were struggling for relegation. Man united has only hard one convincing performance this season, against spurs. We are only number two because the other teams have decided not to play to their strengths. Arsenal basically had a field day with us at OT, they deserved to win that game, but were unfortunate, we rode our luck and got a shaky decision and an own goal from a player who was under no pressure what so ever. Arsenal ran rings around us, all they needed to do is get their act together and learn to finish off teams and united would have fallen to the teens.
Then came man city, who seemed to score at will against our defense, say what you will about city but if tevez had scored that half time goal, it might have been curtains for united. City may still be coming to terms with new money and need to build a mentality as champions and then united will be in trouble. Then came sunderland, and a mid table team with no wealth gave us a proper run for our money and only a lucky own goal gave us an undeserved point.
Even wigan who we beat 5-0 had given us a challenge in the first half, but succumbed in the second, their manager probably told them to play for the draw and the stopped attacking and thus allowing us a chance to win it. Birmingham was another example where we almost drew, bolton almost took our two goal advantage and stuck it in our assess, infact by the end of that match it wasnt united vs bolton, it was QPR vs bolton. A weakened liverpool who hadn’t won for the last 4 matches somehow managed to completely outplay and out muscle us in midfield and that is without their midfield general, if gerald was playing it would have been 4-0.
Lets face it folks we have been very very veeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrryyyyy lucky to find ourselves in the position we are in right now. Once this teams get their acts together as normally happens in november, united will be revealed to be the fraudsters they are, and i can now list teams i realistically think can leapfrog united,
Arsenal, liverpool,mancity,villa, and westham. If my worst dreams were to come true we would find ourselves battling for 5th and 6th position.
October 26th, 2009 at 14:24
@ Spizzy – I don’t disagree with everything you’re saying, but then you go and ruin it by saying we’ll finish behind West Ham. I mean, that’s the same West Ham with no money and sitting in the relegation places?
I think (as always) everyone is knee jerking. If Valencia scores instead of hitting the crossbar we’re all patting ourselves on the back saying how we went to one of the hardest places to play in Europe and came away with a draw, having contained a desperate team and restricted them one or two decent chances in their backyard.
Yes our two man slow-ass midfield was a bit overrun by the foul happy hyperactive heroes Lucas and Macherano. And regardless of that, we still didn’t concede until someone pitched a ball behind our defense to let the really fast guy onto. They then set up the bus and parked it, eventually scoring in the final seconds when we’d essentially said screw it to defense.
I don’t see it as that different to the Burnley game. I really don’t. On another day we get that slice of luck and we get a draw or a win.
We’ll never dominate every match, and even less so against the other big 4 teams. I thought Scholes and Giggs in the same midfield, with O’Shea and Carrick also on the pitch was a massive, MASSIVE mistake, because it basically means we have no pace and no pressure on defense. Everytime Fergie does this, I figure he’ll learn, but so far, no good.
We have problems everywhere on the pitch, but so do almost all other teams. We’re hypercritical of Rio and Vida for getting beaten by the best centre forward in the world, scoring off of his one shot in 60 minutes. If his shot isn’t perfect (which it was) then VDS saves and no one has a freak out.
Personally, I thought we were drawn down to Liverpool’s dire level of football, and were beaten due to a single moment of brilliance by a brilliant player. Considering how often that was our winning formula, I can’t be too bitter about it.
October 26th, 2009 at 15:08
To my opinion i think utd was lacking a playmaker in the midfield we need a player like david silva a player that can distribute pass and can creat chances for stricker to score and a left wing player that can disturb defenders not that on able to improve player like nani,let put yesterday match behind us and think of our next match
October 26th, 2009 at 15:48
@Beachryan: In order to paint a picture clearly you sometimes need to use outrageous colors, They held arsenal and this league is pretty closely knight, all the top ten teams are within a win of each other. This over reliance on others mistakes is what got us the trophy last season. It’s crazy to think that it will happen again this season. We need to start winning and ensuring that we are not top of the table due to a mistake by chelsea but because we beat our opponents. This team is incapable of that, we are relying heavily on the misfortune of other stronger teams, and most of, no in fact all the top three clubs have proven to be stronger than united.The guise that is our current league position, second, is slowly being unveiled and you will soon see how mediocre this team is, wait for the away game at chelsea, when the old geezer is sure to be cautious, what with yesterdays result. United will field a 5 man midfield, and you will see how a chelsea 4 man midfield will destroy us. Chelsea are playing like possessed mad men and are attacking like there is no tomorrow, i saw it on the champions league and the weekend, they are actually playing man united football. Thats how far things have changed, chelsea will show united how to play united football.
October 26th, 2009 at 15:51
Bad team selection, bad performance, bad refereeing, but still we are only 2 points behind Chelsea if we beat them on November 7th all will have been forgotten lets just move on
October 26th, 2009 at 16:04
@Beachryan: i agree with your observation and wish he would play the kids we were promised as the reason we werent bringing in the cavalry during the transfer window.
But im not sure that its cowardice as much as it is wanting to push them to take a spot from the oldies and not just giving a starting spot away.
This should play its self out over the course of the season with the oldies phased out and the kids that are going to make it blooded in. I think it could happen faster if it were up to the fans and this game may cause it to happen faster in fergi’s head as well.
October 26th, 2009 at 16:05
I think we should all rightly fear the Chelsea game, as they’re undeniably the strongest squad in the premier league. Then again, they’ve been the strongest squad in the premier league for the past 6 years, but we’ve won three titles in that time.
We probably have the second best squad in the league, along with the best group of youngsters coming through. We have a great manager, but not the best tactician. We’re currently playing disjointed football, which isn’t changing because every single match a new XI is fielded. I really liked Fergie’s idea of a few years ago – where he created essentially a 4-2-4 where any of the front 4 could play in any position – but he seems to have forgotten to leave the back 6 alone. And that includes the midfield pairing.
No other team in the league is rotating their central pairing as much as we are. And I can’t work out why. It’s not like playing Scholes and Carrick together for the 15th time is going to yield some new revelation. I liked it more when we seemed to at least have 2 sets of partnerships, and they stayed fixed (Ando/Fletcher Scholes/Carrick) or similar. Fergie just seems to have abandoned alot of the principles that got us where we are.
October 26th, 2009 at 16:17
@Tommy: forget about messi mate and nani should stay in this team he is a goal scorer and we are short of them at the moment.
now carick+cash is ripe for a swap with Valencia(the club not the player) for silva. and with hargo coming back i think that should be sufficient to fight for silverware this year. but i think we will wait till next season to pick up a new play maker.
October 26th, 2009 at 16:25
@spizzy: too many ifs and buts in that for me i see united 2points adrift from the only team that will win this year besides united. and i fully expect United to be top again this season and we certainly wont finish below citeh or arssnhole(liverfool already out of the equation). Champions or runners up for united fact.
October 26th, 2009 at 16:32
@Beachryan: +1 nice post they did bring us down to their “dire level” as we were forced to kick them back or be kicked off the park and we, it seems, were the only ones visible to the rookie ref. Had we gotten one of the early 50 50 calls instead of none… the game would have looked alot different wit united wining a pen early and carriger being sent off.
but no excuses fair play to torres taking the game by the neck. Just trying to bring some mist to the glasses that are half empty
October 26th, 2009 at 16:33
i dont understand the dig at nani. two soft tosses of shots at reina is what you guys are mad about i’m assuming. at least he was a threat…he was very hungry out there especially compared to the rest of the team. you can’t expect him to come in with 20 left and impact the game when the rest of the team is playing so poorly. you can act like he’s gotten his fair shake and his time but he hasn’t. i think he should’ve started on the left with giggs sitting tucked in next to him so they could help each other. valencia wasn’t sparkling yesterday either i don’t see why he gets a pass. he did hit the one off the bar but other than that i wasn’t impressed.
carrick is about done i think. he’s not good enough for games against the big fish. i think scholes is in the same boat, he can get runs out against lesser opp.
anderson needs to be in for carrick i think, at least he’s a chaser and would’ve disrupted it. if everyone was fit i’d of liked to see him and fletch in there because they are closing down maniacs full of running and chasing and that’s really where we got outplayed yesterday by mascherano and lucas of all people.
i can’t really fault the 2 strikers that much as their service was poor and i felt like they would just hoof it up to rooney and berba with very little space while they were isolated and expect them to perform a magic trick and get by 2-3 guys on their own.
john o’shea turned in another turd i thought. his passing is awful, his runs were ill timed and poorly thought out. vidic and ferdinand are either complacent, past it, or something. i think evans needs to step in for one of them alot more this season and really learn the trade at the top level.
brighter spots: evra played a normal game for him i thought, he did his job. ryan giggs, especially when he was in the middle tried to control the game and actually played with thought and grit, edwin van der sar was a beast for us and if foster was in it would’ve been alot worse.
we always turn in games like this and still manage to do damn well for ourselves every year. yea it’s disappointing as all hell but at the same time i have faith in the team and like the squad when everyone’s fit
October 26th, 2009 at 17:10
Why isnt Obertan in the team for tomorrow??
October 26th, 2009 at 17:14
I agree with you on out-played BUT…
“dead-on penalty” and “None of [the ref's decision] however [were] game changing, potentially” I disagree with.
If mascherano had been penalized for his foul on Carrick and a penalty awared (+yellow card) then the game would have been VERY different. This would be due to the fact the Liverpool’s bench is void of talent.
It would have been VERY different…
October 26th, 2009 at 17:20
@[OPTI]Madschester United: I think you meant Carragher’s tackle.
And if Berbatov was penalised for bringing down Kuyt in the area the game would be different too. If my aunt had balls, and things like that.
October 26th, 2009 at 17:35
@Miguel: Agreed.
Nani is not the type of player to turn the game around for us, he needs to grow as a player and this 10-20 min bursts of games aren’t doing it. I think Giggs in the middle would have been more effective than Scholes, he is more capable of taking players on and driving into the heart of a defense. SAF said that we didn’t have enough penetration. What do you expect with a pairing like Carrick and Scholes, neither are the type to take the ball from midfield and go through players. Giggs or Anderson would have.
Hindsight is great and best thing I can hope is from now SAF realizes, you can’t play Scholes and Carrick in these games together. We’ll get annihilated by any midfield that is really up for it (and a ref that will let them foul away).
My only fear is I think SAF is going to go 4-5-1 for Chelski. If Fletcher is fit, he should go with Nani, Fletcher, Anderson, Valencia for a midfield and bring on Giggs/Scholes/Owen to turn the games around. Bring on the players with the experience like at Stoke if things aren’t going well, in mean time let our youth continue to try develop.
October 26th, 2009 at 18:04
nice write up, interesting how you did not talk about vidic’s defending in general against pool.
October 26th, 2009 at 18:17
Lets look at a few things? Do yoi actually watch the full game and have an understanding of football? Your assessment of Berbatov is so far wide of the mark its embarassing. How can you say that Berbatov is static, doesnt move about etc? He was probably our onloy decent player on the pitch yesterday, picking up the ball, holding it up and laying off others. The substitution of Berbatov over Rooney was baffling given Waynes contribution yesterday.
The problem stems from the midfield, first Carrick, Scholes and Giggs cannot play together in the big games, they lack energy, drive and a get in your face attitude. Its all well and good saying Gigs has had an off day, but that was the first real test of the season yesterday. Anderson and Fletcher were needed, so Anderson had to start.
The right back slot is a worry, O’Shea doesnt offer anything in support to the winger, a problme that Ronaldo was often seen jesturing at O’shea about.
As for key decisions. One, it was never a penalty, as Carragher played the ball from Carrick, you only have to see the reaction of the Utd players around to see that. two, Carrghers pulling of Owen was not a red card offence, Owen was not going owards goal and neither was the ball and two players were breaking into the box to cover if Owen would have picked up the ball.
October 26th, 2009 at 18:28
@gator: I’m gonna say it again, players like Ince, Mcclair, Hughes and Robson were moved on while still good players, and Scholes, Giggs, Neville, Butt and Beckham were thrown in at the deep end. That’s how they developed into the players they are. Anderson and Nani are never going to develop at United while playing once every 2 weeks.
October 26th, 2009 at 18:44
@strider: Vidic = middling to poor. Sometimes during a match report you do end up leaving things out intentionally or inadvertently because there will usually be several talking points.
I actually wanted to throw in a flippant remark about there being a get-out clause in Vida’s contract when we play Liverpool but it got left out amidst all the other stuff.
October 26th, 2009 at 18:45
@Tufty: We obviously disagree on so many points, but since you started off with the premise that I do not understand football, nothing I’m going to say is going to make any sense to you eh?
PS: regarding the ref decisions, whichever way you look at it, they weren’t important enough to have influenced the outcome. So there’s no debate.
October 26th, 2009 at 18:57
I do agree with Tufty that Fergie needs to blood these youngsters.
This is controversial, but I think Giggs is a luxury player, who may actually be hurting us over 90 minutes, even the way he plays this season. I mean, he misplaces more passes than anyone else on the team, doesn’t offer anything defensively and can understandably only run about half of the time. Yes, he occasionally plays a killer ball and does get his fair share of assists, but at what cost?
Watching the match yesterday – Valencia was always double or tripled marked anytime we countered because Liverpool knew that Giggs wouldn’t be an option, as he wasn’t able to burst forward. They also knew that they could move the RB into the middle on crosses, because similarly Giggsy wasn’t busting a gut to get on the end of things coming from the right, he generally just plodded around on the left side of the centre circle.
He’s a legend, and can still jink and provide an outside of the boot pass that makes me feel a little bit of sunshine inside. But, do these one or two contributions really outweigh the benefits of, say, a Nani for 90 minutes?
And it might be alright if you played Giggs along with two hardworking other midfielders like Park and Anderson to make up the difference, but throwing Scholes on too basically had us playing with 9 men for some of the match.
October 26th, 2009 at 18:58
Actually, following on with that a team consisting of Giggs, Scholes, O’Shea, Carrick and Berbatov – is that the single least hustling team we’ve ever fielded?
October 26th, 2009 at 19:19
The real problem yesterday was the absence of Fletcher and the poor fitness of Rio and Rooney. If Rio and Rooney had been fully fit and Fletcher had shored up midfield I think we would have got a draw. Like RedRanter said other teams have dropped points and it is not unreasonable to lose an away game against a big team so long as we beat them in the return fixture. Liverpool are also a cup team and can beat anyone in the world on their day.
Having said that we do have problems that need addressing:
1. Fergie’s cautious approach does not work now that our defence has lost its invincibility and when we concede against a good team we are unable to get back into the game. Going forward we are pretty predictable and a good team can stop us in our tracks. Luckily most Premier League teams are so weak that even playing cautious unimaginative football we still end up winning. But in Europe and against the other teams in the big four it is going to cost us
2. Forget talk about this being a transition year. We are just the same team minus Ronaldo. We have a bunch of promising teenagers but I do not see them getting many games this season, and while Nani and Anderson were touted as the long term replacements for Giggs and Scholes they aren’t getting any games and to be honest even when they do get games they do little to convince anyone they deserve to be on the team.
3. This was another big game we flopped in. You can win a league title while losing big games. But I do not fancy our chances at all in Europe this season. Liverpool rose to the occasion and we failed to show up AGAIN
4. Frankly our football does not excite me at all. Two seasons ago we played wonderful football. Last season we played rubbish football but at least Ronaldo provided entertainment value. This season it is just boring.
October 26th, 2009 at 19:24
@Beachryan: Actually we have always had the best squad but not the best starting eleven. There is a difference. Over the past five years i would not put any team up against ours for depth. It’s the lack of quality in some of our starters and the increasing necessity to rotate that has cost us dearly.
October 26th, 2009 at 19:39
Nice article RR. Yes you are right, we agree on everything on there. It’s become a moment of true crisis at Old Trafford but I can just see the Gaffer in a press conference now storm out after being told there is a crisis or at least saying in his typical flippant way, “What crisis? We lost one match, life goes on.” And I have to say this attitude to the media and basically to all the supporters is beginning to piss me off supremely. Ye she has to show strength and to avoid the team getting down but the man has stopped being honest and is kissing the ass of the owners when they in turn are betraying his chances at winning silverware.
I don’t know mate but the more I look at things the more I feel there is going to be a regime change after this season. He looks sick and tired and that he just doesn’t care anymore. Nobody seems to care that with ten minutes left in the game and down 0-1 he is seen sitting on his hands and chewing his gum like we are up 4-0. I just have a major problem with this because the game is an an emotional game and requires energy and passion. How do you expect to convey those demands on players when you yourself look like you are overdue for your aftenoon nap time?
3 straight losses to Liverpool is just more than i can stomach and yet, to Fergie, it’s just another day at the beach. To Hell with his calmness and his experience and coolness under pressure. It’s time he took the hairdryer out and used it on himself. Using it on the player might help but then again, lets face it, they just aren’t that fucking good. But he is better than this and he needs to up his game if he expects the team to do so. And if he can’t then he knows what he must do. Move aside for a younger and hungrier man to take over. I am tired of United and it’s aura of geriatrics that is bringing this club down. I am al for playing youngsters and giving them a chance but not at the risk of killing off the season. No I want quality players bought for this club and I want tactics and squad selections that will bring out all the positives and all the attacking flair out of this team. Enough of this seniors home drudgery and boredom we have had to endure for two seasons now. This team needs an injection of new blood and an injection of adrenaline because right now we are a team moving around on walkers.
October 26th, 2009 at 19:45
“Fair and square”?
Don’t think so.
October 26th, 2009 at 19:48
@Scott the Red: We can make the arguments about referee inconsistencies, but I think we stunk.
Guess we’ll have to disagree.
October 26th, 2009 at 20:45
First of all, where the hell are all the regulars? The majority of post are coming from folks I’ve never seen before?
Second I agree with RedRanter that we lost fair and square, anyone trying to blame the refs for our loss is delusional. Even fergie admitted we deserved to lose.
October 26th, 2009 at 20:48
@Scott the Red: “fair and square” “I don’t think do”
well that’s a fucking suprise, the spinmaster himself thinks we were cheated out of a result. Look, I know your a passionate United fan but would it kill you to be objective once in a while? Im a united fan and even I cringe sometimes at the pieces you write.
October 26th, 2009 at 21:09
@Johnsom33: The ref was a disgrace and he played a big part in helpingus never get a foothold on the game. When every marginal call is going against you and every blatant foul by them is not being called, especially two penalty claims, then it does affect a team’s performance. Still, you are right, the refs cannot take a lot of the blame for this game because we were really that poor from the get got. The players and Fergie have to take the most blame because they let a very average team without Gerrard and with Lukas Leiva in midfield totally outclass us and dominate us. It was a shameful display by our team but Fergie’s current standing with officials isn’t helping us out in games. And he has nobody to blame but himself and that big fat trap of his that can’t shut up when opening serves no positive purpose.
October 26th, 2009 at 21:13
@Traverse: You have a point. Evans, for example would not have developed to the player he is now without an extended run filling in for Rio and Vidic.
If we are to rebuild, we need to tear down the old ruins first. That would mean not playing the golden oldies all the time!!
October 26th, 2009 at 21:18
@Johnsom33: When you search high and low for a silver lining and still can’t find one, it’s a good bet to blame the ref!!
October 26th, 2009 at 21:20
1 – It wasnt a pen. Carrgher touched the ball.
2- It wasnt a sending off. Carragher was not the last man as Owen was not going towards goal and there were markers covering back.
If for example Carragher did get sent off, Liverpool would have thrown another centre back on and with 2 mins of normal time left and 5 mins of added time, the impact would have been minimal.
Its easy to blame a ref, but the blame lies with the starting X1 and the lack of impact substitutions. We didnt look lively in the last 3rd till Owen came on. Liverpool had more desire all over the park and had the better chances, did Reina actually have a save to make?
October 26th, 2009 at 21:59
@Tufty: If you’re addressing me, here’s what I have to say:
I have not pinned the defeat on the ref. Nowhere have I done that. I said even if they were actually pens or fouls they cannot be the reason for our defeat. Whilst I saw Carragher’s tackle on Carrick as a penalty, I clearly said it’s immaterial to the outcome of the match. I also said we got the rub of the green against Arsenal when Fletcher went scot free, so I am not making excuses about the refereeing.
I repeat what I’ve said in my opening line: that we lost the game fair and square. So I don’t see why debating the refereeing has any point here, because which ever way you make the argument, it doesn’t change the bigger issue — that we deservedly lost the match, refereeing inconsistency or not.
October 26th, 2009 at 22:01
@Beachryan: Agree.
True, we were second best, but this one game does not equate to us failing our season.
Agree that Valencia scoring would have had most people satisfied, Owen could have been nearly one on one in the dying minutes, Nani had a good shot saved (he could also have teed Owen in for a clear opportunity)
The season is still long.
October 26th, 2009 at 22:03
An interesting stat I just dug up.
Paul Scholes has started 8 out of our 12 games this season, and was subbed in on another. Consider that he was ineligible for one of the other 3 games through suspension and that is an astonishing amount of appearances for someone his age.
SAF had made a point of asking the MF’ers to contribute to the goal scoring this year. Scholes’ contribution…… 1 goal!!
Anyone else think that Scholes needs a long, well deserved rest!
October 26th, 2009 at 22:11
@Tufty: roony and nani required saves
October 26th, 2009 at 22:14
Skim reading a bit of yesterday’s liverpool thread, and it seems that Berba-bashing is once agai on the cards.
For the past 4 or 5 games he was lauded by many pure class, one of our better players since the start of the season with Giggs and Fletcher…
Yesterday against liverpool we lost the battle of midfield and everytime we lose this battle, Berbatov is made the scapegoat of our poor performace.
Yes, his performance was far from spectacular yesterday, but I still notice the improvement in that 1. He’s still more involved in the game than he would be compared to last year; 2. He starts to voice his frustration – a sign that he demands good service and not shy to communicate with his teammates…
October 26th, 2009 at 22:18
The result was very, very dissapointing. The performance was exremely dissapointing. I don’t accept the claims that there is a lack of passion; they simply make no sense in the context of Champions of England. Liverpool played better than us and i think the problem was a combination of excellent midfield displays from Lucas as Mascherano and our inability to counter it. I also wonder about the decision to play Rooney. He didn’t look 100% and it may have made more sense to start with Owen… I’m gutted (I work alonside Scousers and they are very bad winners) but it’s only October and we’re still in good shape league-wise. Its not thrill-a-minute and the lack of progress in the midfield is concerning but we are still good enough to win it.
Something which did occur to me recently… I was wondering why Fergie didn’t spend the Ronaldo money. It doesn’t make sense. I know he sniffed around a few players but with £80M and a bit of determination he could of got most of the available big names. Is it possible that the funds are being held back for his successor? This makes some sense i suppose especially when you consider our recent fixation on developing youth. We’ll see.
One Love, One United.
Edit: This is not to be confused with the regular Dan. I hope this Dan changes his handle to some thing else. – RR
Update: He’s changed it to RedDan.
So that should sort this out.
October 26th, 2009 at 22:23
Consider it done!
October 26th, 2009 at 22:27
@RedDan: Cheers mate.
October 27th, 2009 at 0:05
What on earth is going on in the mind of our manager?
If he keeps making these insane team selections we are going to end up trophyless.
Personally I think everything has gone downhill since Queiroz departed.
Since he left..
- The likes of John O’Shea and Park Ji Sung became first teamers.
- Anderson and Nani, after fine breakthrough seasons are never given a run in the side.
- God awful tactics
Our record against Liverpool with and without Queiroz speaks for itself.
With W7 D1 L0 – Without W0 D0 L3
- Supreme
Fine blog by the way.
October 27th, 2009 at 1:09
the ref, the fuckin ref, most people are happy to blame him then rather admit WE were OUTPLAYED by a MEDIOCRE liverpool team!!! and what does that say of us?
cause man for man our team is better than theirs yet we crumbled, were exposed and made to look lacking in so many ways!!!
yesterdays defeat hurt deeper than i can express, i hate liverpool and everything to do with them, and we should of ended their season, however our boys werent up for it, they looked non-chlant and rooney is not as good as everyone precieves, and in contrst owen would of thrived on starting this game!!!! 15 min is just not enough!!
so anyway what is wrong with our current team? are they simply not go0d enough, do they not care, or has the manager simply just got it wrong???what i do no know is we have no bite and no real quality in midfield, and as everyone but fergie can see is that although rooney and berba are good players the partnership does not work, its one or the other, FERGIE please sort it out or just call it a day…..
October 27th, 2009 at 1:27
While we have undeniable squad depth our players seem more brittle than they were ten years. Our defence is like a pack of dominos: one down, the rest follow and this has happened every season at key times. Our best midfielder is made of glass (Hargreaves). Our third striker is wrapped in wool and only unleashed for twenty minute intervals, and the star of our team (and I use that word loosely) gets injured at regular intervals and then needs a run of games before he is firing on all cylinders and scoring (Rooney).
Frankly we NEED the depth, so it is not that much of an advantage especially as our first XI is by no means superior to any of our main rivals.
I disagree there is an immediate crisis-we are still very much in contention for the title and will qualify for the knock out stages of the Champions League. But what we definitely have is stagnation and sclerosis. We peaked in 2007/8 and even that success was in a large part due to Ronaldo having the season of his life.
For me the main problem is complacency on the part of Ferguson. He is tolerating too much mediocrity in our squad and our most recent buys have been unsuccessful thus far (Berbatov, Nani, Anderson, Hargreaves represent almost £100 million in spending and I wouldn’t say any of them has really improved our squad-for me Tevez in 2007/8 was a better fit than Berbatov over the last two seasons, Hargreaves shows no signs of ever returning to fitness, and Nani and Anderson are no longer spring chickens).
And then we had the Ronaldo money.
Really with all the money we’ve spent over the last few years and the money we had from Ronaldo we could have really bought 3-4 amazing players who would have strengthened our first team. Instead we took a huge gamble paying over the odds for Nani and Anderson, were unlucky with Hargreaves, and while Berbatov appeared to be a classic Fergie signing he isn’t a good fit for the personnel in our team and certainly is not worth anywhere near £30 million.
Fergie has made some inspired signing in the past but his transfer policy has failed over the last few years and that is a big reason why we’ve ended up with this rather mediocre squad. He keeps playing Giggs and Scholes because in his sentimental old age he prefers former world class players to mediocre youngsters. The truth is that if we had better midfielders than Nani and Anderson, Giggs and Scholes wouldn’t get a game.
I don’t buy this argument that youngsters need a run of games to come good. If they are good enough they take the chances they get and force their way into the team. Rooney walked into our team at 18 because he was good enough. Same with Ronaldo. But Nani and Anderson have had ample first team outings and they haven’t broken into the team and I understand that Fergie sees Giggs and Scholes as safer bets despite their age.
We have a new crop of youngsters who are still a few years off breaking into the first team. But if they are good enough they will be able to take their chances to impress and break into the team. Until they are ready Im afraid we have to settle for second best.
It is easy to paint Fergie as not giving youngsters chances. But I still believe Fergie feels that if they are good enough they are old enough. The problem is that the youngsters on the fringes of the first team aren’t good enough. Hopefully the next crop (Pogba, Ljajic, Petrucci, Macheda (I count him because really despite the supersub appearances he is still a few years off being read) and co. are)
October 27th, 2009 at 2:03
@Tufty: Berbatov was neat, for the most part, but our only decent player? Not really. That was one of his laziest, most energy deficient performances. His layoffs didn’t enigineer anything significant (mostly because they didnt match his normal standard) and he had to pick up the ball because of Carricks and Scholes’ ineptitude. Owen came in- almost had an assist, earned 2 freekicks just outside the 18, and forced liverpool’s back line to play more deep, the 1-0 lead notwithstanding. Rooney wasn’t any more effective, but berbatov simply wasn’t supplying the ball in a manner or offering any threat that convinced me he was the better option. His body language didn’t even debate it because he knew he was poor. WR simply commands more attention, even on an off day, allowing Owen to manuevre more freely.
I agree that it wasn’t a penalty, but it was a definate sending off for Carragher. If Owen was not going onwards to goal, then where the hell was he going? The point at which Carragher mugged him, Carra was the last man, so whether players were following to cover and would have gotten there is irrelevant. Second, owen was adjusting to trap the ball and turn towards goal, but couldn’t do so because he was impeded.
October 27th, 2009 at 3:33
@colver: The issue at the beginning of this season was “Why didn’t we replace the scoring potential of Ronaldo with a new player(s)”. Was it because we couldn’t afford it, or was it because SAF felt that we had enough depth and upcoming youth to sustain this concern.
The latter was the populist opinion, and one intimated by SAF himself. He was confident that the young players being signed and with what was already sparkling in the reserves could come through and do the job for us.
Fact is SAF has been, so far, reluctant to entrust the hopes of this season on the rookies, and is persistent in his selection of the golden oldies.
What are we to believe??
Could it be his last season, and he’s simply trying to protect a record of respectability? Or, which to me is more likely, are our young fledglings just not yet up to the task.
We don’t really know about the issue of transfer funds (the availability of them will not be common knowledge) and so we can’t speculate that we have tried and failed to bring in new blood!
There are so many factors that defy reason, that the only reasonable thing to assume is that there is a distinct lack of effective leadership at the top echelons of this club.
Read into that what you will, but there’s certainly something smelling foul around our parts!!
October 27th, 2009 at 3:34
@Tufty:
1. It’s a common myth that if a tackler wins the ball then it can’t be a foul. This is not what the rules states. Carragher was a penalty because even tho he touched the ball he didn’t disposses carrick. He always wasn’t in control of his momentum and that’s why he brought down carrick.
2 carragher’s professional foul on Owen was an absolute red card. Owen was clear on goal and the tackle was a “denial of a clear goal scoring opportunity. So no matter if he was the last man or not(which he was) it was a straight red.
October 27th, 2009 at 3:40
@Grognard: I agree it was poor refereeing, but At the end of the day we had no buisness getting anything from that game. I just am desperate to know when SAF is going to stop swimming in that river Denial and address our struggling midfield. He claims that he has since watched the CL final in Rome and knows where he went wrong. Well judging from his summer transfer activity and yesterdays team selection, he hasn’t learned a thing from the Rome ass whoping
October 27th, 2009 at 4:01
@Johnsom33: I think everyone wants to believe it’s just that we’re lacking in the midfield, but if truth be told, the problems are far more reaching.
In my estimation, we could replace our entire MF and it wouldn’t make a damn difference to the dynamic with what we have up front! And to compound that, I would go on to say that with a pair of new strikers, the current MF would still struggle to provide good service!
We need at least two top players – one in CMF and a large target up front that has a track record of scoring goals!!
There is no chemistry in the attacking elements of this team, and often times resembles the ball careening of the buffers of a pinball machine – it has no clarity and nobody really knows who’s passing to who!!
October 27th, 2009 at 4:20
@Redrich: I disagree, Rooney and berba are both class players. The fact ofvthe matter is they get zero service. Scholes and carrick just don’t have the bite we need in midfield. They were dominated yesterday just like we were dominated in Rome. Xavi iniesta and toure put on a clinic and we were basically chasing shadows all game. Hell even Sunderland has a better midfield than us. Cana and Cattermole were simply to much for scholes.
I admit that I wouldn’t mind a upgrade in the striker dept, but if our midfield can’t control the game or supply the attack, then it’s all for nothing.
October 27th, 2009 at 4:31
@colver: Fantastic rant mate. I so agree with you, especially about the youngsters not being good enough or else they would have forced the old goats onto the bench. Fergie has a lot to answer for and the problem of course is, he doesn’t give a damn and he never will answer for his failures. He will just retire one day give us and the media the up yours sign and go off into the sunset.
October 27th, 2009 at 4:33
@Johnsom33: So then.. you would agree!! A new striker and a new CMF’er??
October 27th, 2009 at 4:43
@Johnsom33: And I have been saying this for 6 months now. He had a chance to buy players to replace Ronaldo and he didn’t for whatever reason. I said this team was not good enough and it was not a knee jerk reaction. It was a reaction based on watching this club for years now and seeing just how ordinary they truly were but also how incredible Ronaldo was and how he literally carried them on his shoulders. I knew the day he left us would be a dark day because for five years now I have not had one ounce of trust in the Glazer’s and i even predicted before he was sold that if we got a lot of money for Ronaldo, i’d be very afraid that the Glazer’s would get their money grubbing paws on it. Again I was right. And it goes on and on and on. So many flaws and so many mistakes that I was amazed how few could see what I was seeing. But they all can see it now. They see Fergie and United for the colossal failure they have become. And I say this when they are just two points out of first. But that’s how certain I am of their demise, unless major changes and player purchases are made not in the summer, but in January to avoid the the hike in player prices after the World Cup.
I am sick and tired of watching this crap on tv every week. We are not West Ham or Hull City or Liverpool or Villa for that matter. We are United and we should not have to tolerate or sit through this garbage and be fed the body of lies and bullshit that has come out of the mouth of Fergie, Gill and the Glazer’s. I’m sick of it and honestly, I’m sick of them. Couples who have been happily married for thirty years with kids divorce or separate, why the Hell should I feel any pity or loyalty to a team and manager who doesn’t give a rat’s ass about my financial commitment to the team and about the time I waste being bored to tears with the garbage product he is fielding week after week. I’m sick of the site of them. In fact, after 35 years, Fergie has done a wonderful job of making me sick of football period.
Great memories fade quickly from the mind when you aren’t having fun anymore.
October 27th, 2009 at 4:57
@Redrich: It’s simple mate. The team struggles because itdoesn’t have players with enough skill to overcome a full court press and we haven’t got players who are fast enough and have enough control and skill of the ball at speed to make a difference. Anderson is a fucking joke, Nani is disappointing, Valencia for a winger is woefully static and slow Scholes is dead and Giggs is near death. Carrick is and has always been a lead foot and Fletcher is the only midfielder we can count on game in and game out. Imagine that. Who would have said two years ago that right now, our best midfielder hands down and by a country mile would be Darren Fletcher. And as good as he has been, he is not a world class player by any sense of the imagination. Did anybody watch Keita score a hattrick yesterday for Barcelona? This guy is a DMF and he is the backup to Ya Ya Toure for crying out loud and he scored three frakken goals. I’m not saying he is world class but Barcelona have two midfielders sitting on their bench who are better than any of the midfielders we have. And that’s the problem. We are United, we should have players of the quality of Xavi and Iniesta in the middle and Ronaldo and Messi up front. Ibrahimovich is every bit as lazy and languid as Berbatov but he gets so much service, he can’t help but score goals. Why we are not trying to be the best in the world anymore is a matter of great frustration for me. We aren’t even the best in England anymore. I cannot wait until we meet our Waterloo in the second round of the Champions League. I don’t know who it will be who will beat us, but I bloody damned well guarantee it will happen.
Honestly, I am so sick and tired of ranting with such negativity. I want to rant about how awesome Rooney was or wasn’t that an amazing goal by Owen and what a pass by Berbatov but it aint happening folks, not even when we win. It’s very very discouraging. My name is Grognard and I am a Unitedholic.
October 27th, 2009 at 4:58
@Johnsom33: You hit the nail on the head mate.
October 27th, 2009 at 5:03
@Redrich: I’ll offer my take. We need a world class RB, a replacement for Rio at CB (I’m not convinced Evans is the man), A RMF with pace and immense skill (Love the Krasic fellow over at CSK) a LMF player who is a carbon copy One attacking central midfielder who can play across the midfield (can anyone say David Silva) a healthy Owen Hargreaves and a striker who literally camps out in the 8 yard box of the opponent and who sniffs out goals like Hugh Hefner sniffs out pussy. And above all, we need a new manager. I am sick of the old man and his negative and cowardly tactics and his rotating merry go round of starting elevens. It’s time for a new generation folks. It hurts I know, but the time is fast coming upon us.
October 27th, 2009 at 5:09
@Grognard: Well then, lets give it a break and prepare ourselves for Barnsley!!
SAF will give the youngsters a chance, albeit with the threat of exile to some obscure French league club if they fuck up.
Here’s hoping we get a look at Gibson, and give Scholesy the night off!!
October 27th, 2009 at 5:15
@Grognard: Grog, I mostly agree. But the true need is check book with many pages and pen with much ink.
And the balls to write them!!
October 27th, 2009 at 8:18
@Redrich: I couldn’t care less about our school of young fish as I am of the belief very few of them are at the level I think we should be looking for. Also, the day I show interest in the Carling Cup is the day I know Alzheimers has hit me.
October 27th, 2009 at 8:19
@Redrich: You said it. Fergie has the balls to be defiant and arrogant towards the press and to referees but he positively starts to shake at the knees if he has to sign a check. Even if it’s not his own money. JEEZ!
October 27th, 2009 at 11:19
Just a thought. We are skint, lets not deny it. Recent success has papered over the cracks of what an utterly poor and dangerous financial situation the club is in thanks to the Glaziers
Recent transfers have been failures) over £100 million of them) If recent players purchased where sold the only one that would generate a profit would be Owen and we got him for free
All of this in mind the manager has been told to make do with what he has got. So don’t expect any signings in January.
The manager knows what he has is not good enough and will keep trying to squeeze results out playing negative football allowing us to finish in the top 3 in the league and get as far as we can in Europe before calling it a day.
October 27th, 2009 at 18:39
C’mon guys – I think we’re getting abit too negative here. We are champions of england (for the third year on the spin), we’ve reached two consecutive champions leauge finals (winning one) and have hoovered up countless other silver pots to boot. To borrow a saying of an over-weight spandiard – That is a fact!
October 28th, 2009 at 19:00
I think SAF went in with a plan to let Liverpool’s midfield either tire out closing down or at least get cautioned to where Carrick/Scholes would have had time to control the game, that backfired and while great, he made the mistake of not changing up sooner than he did. We didn’t match their intensity, I don’t think we could have. It’s easy to say that due to the poor performance the decisions didn’t have an impact. An early yellow made it hard for Evra to really crunch into tackles – who is to say a yellow for Lucas would have let him be as exuberant. Could have let slow Carrick/Scholes get a foothold.
As for the Carra challenge on Carrick – look at Nev’s card in the CC. He took the ball clearly but, followed through and went high. Carra’s wasn’t high but, it was dangerous and over the top of the ball. You can be called for a foul even if you take the ball if it is dangerous or with intent, just like you can be called for a foul for not even touching a player.
As for the Owen incident – just need to look at the ABU pundits wishy-washing on how they can kind of see why a red wasn’t produced, the same ones that can definitively say that Vida’s card last year was nailed on.
We shouldn’t need the refs to win games against these lot. We should have come out with more desire but, we didn’t for whatever reason. We do need more aggressive players on the pitch taking charge of the team than chilled out Giggs or a lax Rio.
Hard to swallow loss. We need a good win against Rovers and then take it to Chelshit. Beating them will not only be good for us but, will make the supporters believe that we are good enough. Something a lot of people have lost faith in – that United is good enough to challenge with all the rest.