Sep 13
Liverpool v Manchester United: Preview
At long last we get to some real footballing action. United travel to Anfield with a rather good record in recent times.
In pre-match trash talk, the Spanish waiter had a little dig at our club’s spending although, for some reason, it seems to escape his attention that he himself has spent about £200m since his arrival at Anfield. He has a Champions’ League medal to show for all that (with a squad predominantly inherited from Houllier).
They have everyone fit, including Gerrard and Torres. We have everyone fit barring Ronaldo. Even Mr. Crock (or Mr. New Saha) — Owen Hargreaves — is reportedly fit, barring pre-game warm-up complications.
We won last year 1-0, courtesy a set piece and went about the rest of the game defending and putting Torres into Rio’s back pocket. This year we have a pretty strong side, with added teeth in front in the form of Berbatov. I am really excited by his very presence in our squad, although I won’t be screaming doom and gloom if he flops tomorrow. And it would be good if others wouldn’t over expect from him straight away.
In formations, if he’s fit, Carrick will start alongside Scholes in midfield. The back four is settled. The rest four positions is interesting. Will he opt for a front three of Rooney, Tevez and Berbatov (which would mean Hargreaves will be our third central midfielder)? Or will he go for a straight 4-4-2 with Nani on the left and Hargreaves on the right with Rooney alongside Berbatov? Your guess is as good as mine.
So feel free to throw around crazy formations and predictions.
Prediction: 1-1. Yes, I can’t see beyond a draw, and I do hope I’m proved wrong and United win it.
Related items from Red Rants:
- Man Utd v Everton: Preview
- Porto it is then…
- Portsmouth Preview
- Some Reading Material Ahead of Grand Slam Sunday
- Manchester United 2006/2007 Season Review
Tags: Game Preview
September 13th, 2008 at 10:38
@ Red Ranter
“he himself has spent about £200m since his arrival at Anfield. He has a Champions’ League medal to show for all that (with a squad predominantly inherited from Houllier).”
can’t have it both ways mate. . either he’s spent 200m since his arrival or he’s relied on a squad predominantly inherited from houllier
September 13th, 2008 at 10:52
Yeah, I’m gonna sit on the fence and go with a 1-1 too.
Anything but a loss will be good I feel, but a win will be awesome. Hopefully the law of averages (w.r.t wins) does not come and bite us in the arse.
Hoping for Rooney to have a cracker too, and ofcourse Berbaman!
September 13th, 2008 at 10:53
I will be hugely surprised if Berbatov starts. How many days training has he had with the lads. One? I’m expecting Rooney and Tevez to start, and Berbatov coming on as an impact sub after 60 minutes, or just coming on for a run out when we are coasting 2-0.
Why are you draw predictors being so negative. Liverpool have looked awful in every game they have played this season. They should be out of the champions league for god sake.
September 13th, 2008 at 10:57
I would be surprised if he starts with all 3 – roo, tevez and berba. I think berba might start from the bench and will replace roo or tevez in the second half. so basically he will go with a 4-4-2. hargreaves still does not seem fit enough to play so carrick nani scholes and come to think of it wildly – How might it sound putting tevez in there with the 3 of them?
September 13th, 2008 at 11:01
And i too think it will be a 1-1 draw.
September 13th, 2008 at 11:02
http://www.manutd.com/default.sps?pagegid={F9E570E6-407E-44BC-800F-4A3110258114}&newsid=6618268
what if he starts!?!?
September 13th, 2008 at 11:15
@Viz: There’s no way Ron is gonna start this game. I think Fergie just intended for that to be a morale boost to the squad.
He might be on the bench though, and might come on around 80min, IF we are trailing 0-1.
September 13th, 2008 at 11:21
@benjd: I think the negative (rather safe) predictions are cos form goes out of the window in games like these. It doesn’t matter how we/they have been doing recently. Imagine them getting a lucky deflected 5min goal and the crowd on top of us…will you be very positive then? Like Fergie said yest, anything can happen in these games, anything! We wouldn’t have lost both league games to Shitty last year then!
September 13th, 2008 at 11:28
@jonny: Well, actually that’s not true. He’s spend that amount up until today, but when they won the CL, the squad was mostly that of Houlier’s.
Rafa has done a lot of changing since then, though, and fact is that he’s spent more money than SAF on buying.
September 13th, 2008 at 11:39
I am actually positive about this game. I look forward to it and I am sure we can nick it. Im not thinkin about history these last couple of years when I think about the result but Rooney is back on form, Scholes and Tevez got a rest, Carrick is back and if we have trouble scoring goals we finally have a striker-sub to come on if we need a goal. I hope Berba starts, but I really dont think so. I bet Fergie is gonna try with Tevez and Rooney up front, Berba will be substituted in when we have played 60-70 minutes. Hopefully we will win. Gerrard and Torres are back, but although still not a 100% fresh. Both have had really bad injuries and I remember Liverpools game against Arsenal last season, Torres had had the exact same injury and was rushed back to quick, they had to sub him off at half time. Gerrard was important in that game, but he never seems to get a good game against us lately. Hopefully that will continue.
Team prediction:
VDS
Brown Rio Vidic Evra
Fletcher Carrick Scholes Nani
Tevez Rooney
subs: TK, Neville, Oshea, Possebon, Giggs, Hargreaves, Berbatov.
Predition: 2-0 to United, Rio and Rooney to score.
COME ON UNITED!!!
September 13th, 2008 at 11:40
Team news anyone? JB?
September 13th, 2008 at 11:40
@benjd: Why does it matter how much training he’s done with the united squad. He has been training with spurs so he should be fit. Training doesn’t really help a player get used to his new team’s style of play, they need games for that. Training doesn’t reflect the way a team plays in a match.
September 13th, 2008 at 11:44
@Tomas: true enough, also, he’s bought a lot of shit players that he’s had to replace, or sell off at a loss. (Cisse wasn’t shit, just crocked. . Crouch? Pennant?)
we may have to pay over the odds for our players, but most times, we get it right the first time.
September 13th, 2008 at 11:56
Team News:
GK: VDS
RB: Brown
CB: Ferdinand
CB: Vidic
LB: Evra
CM: Carrick
CM: Scholes
CM: Anderson
ST: Tevez
ST: Berbatov
ST: Rooney
Subs: PIG, O’Shea, Evans, Giggs, Nani, Fletcher, Hargreaves
Torres and Gerrard on the bench for Liverpool
September 13th, 2008 at 11:57
@JB: nice team that is!
September 13th, 2008 at 12:00
I’m not sure on the formation though, 4-3-3 seems alot more positive than usual for Anfield
Could be a 4-5-1 or a 4-3-2-1 I suppose.
September 13th, 2008 at 12:00
@JB: AWSOME!!! That was the lineup I hoped for, I think that is the strongest starting 11 we have.
Best defense in the world, best midfielders in the world and best strikers in the world! WE ARE GONNA WIN AT ANFIELD AGAIN!!! 
COME ON UNITED!!!! 
September 13th, 2008 at 12:02
wowwwwwww! This is the dream team fellas…Very brave from Sir Alex! Hope it pays off! Full sssssteam ahead!
September 13th, 2008 at 12:02
Update. The formation is not 4-3-3 or 4-3-2-1, its 4-1-4-1-2.
GK: VDS
RB: Brown
CB: Vidic
CB: Ferdinand
LB: Evra
CDM: Carrick
CM: Scholes
CM: Anderson
AM: Tevez
ST: Rooney
ST: Berbatov
Still great!
September 13th, 2008 at 12:04
Sky reckon its a 4-3-3 formation.
September 13th, 2008 at 12:16
No width? Are we trying to match Liverpool?
September 13th, 2008 at 12:18
@JB:no width in that team. What are they playing.
September 13th, 2008 at 12:21
Liverpool are playing a highly defensive and hopelessly inept in attack team.
September 13th, 2008 at 12:23
Gerrard and Torres on the bench? Meaning neither is fit enough to play first 11. Is Rafa going to throw them into a game going as fast as Hamilton’s McLaren if its desperation time and risk the careers of his 2 best players should they exacerbate their injuries? Insanity from the Spanish Waiter!
September 13th, 2008 at 12:28
Not really, we’d do the same with Ronaldo and Rooney if we only had 2 good players too.
September 13th, 2008 at 12:36
Comon United!! Sock those fucking dippers.
September 13th, 2008 at 12:48
C’mon United! Formation we wanted to see, bring it on !
September 13th, 2008 at 12:51
Well that was a good start.
September 13th, 2008 at 12:51
TEVEZ SCORES, BERBA SETS IT UP!!
September 13th, 2008 at 12:53
FUCK YEAH
September 13th, 2008 at 12:53
Dream Start for berbatov!!!! he’s going to provide us with so much more than a target man!!!!
September 13th, 2008 at 13:04
Rooney on the right, NOT PLEASED!
there’s been alot of talk about how well Tevez has played but in the past 3 seasons i find it hard to remember a time Rooney has played in his proper position for UNITED. as strong as the squad is, i’d rather see Nani out there than Rooney, not because i prefer Nani but Rooney deserves to be played properly or not @ all.
i expect an average game from him today & that has nothing to do with him & everything to do with sir Alex but if UNITED win. . . so be it.
September 13th, 2008 at 13:13
before someone get pedantic, i mean 2 & abit years.
September 13th, 2008 at 13:17
game on.
September 13th, 2008 at 13:18
typical van der Sar!
he’s a f*ck up. he’s great on long range efforts (& penalties) but whenever the ball goes in the box it’s panic up time.
WHERE THE F*CK IS BEN FOSTER?! i didn’t expect him to be straight in but facts are Edwin is a liability, the defence bails him out more often than not & Rio can’t stand him most games.
September 13th, 2008 at 13:21
Good lord VDS. That’s two terrible mistakes in one half, pretty much all you’ve had to do!
September 13th, 2008 at 13:26
Carrick’s crocked again. Sigh.
September 13th, 2008 at 13:39
man VDS costing us nearly 2 goals and our best central midfielder…cant even pass properly..
September 13th, 2008 at 13:41
the adrenaline took us through the first 20 minutes but for @least 25 minutes we’ve look unbalanced & slow. Berb has been a non-entity bar the first 10 minutes aalthough there have been some promising parts.
the Edwin OG (i won’t blame Brown for the goalies mistake) has given them something to hold onto & it’s sickening. the thing that annoys me most about their goal is the lack of thought shown by Edwin, even if he’d have gotten the ball past Brown it could easily have just landed @ one of their players feet. his consistent absent mindedness in games is becoming more & more apparent, i’m not talking in the heat of the moment i’ve just never rated him or been truly convinced by him; he’s an accident waiting to happen. if they would have scored the (yet another) Edwin “rush of blood” is gutting. they always say that when a goalkeeper makes a mistake it’s more evident etc. but facts are that was worse than a mistake, it’s a consistent error of judgement.
Rooney done their left-back a couple of times but needs to be shown some respect & be given a chance to influence the game from an advanced position.
September 13th, 2008 at 13:42
Well, the first half was a tale of two halves in itself – before the goal and then after. I had visions of us totally dominating the league and Europe and then was brought back to reality with the defensive error. Sigh.
Rooney played wide is not good for us at all, I hope Fergie’s done that temporarily. He better change it in the 2nd half.
September 13th, 2008 at 13:44
It’s difficult to play with no midfield, Carrick and Scholes are too slow together in these type of matches, hopefully Fergie will change something
September 13th, 2008 at 13:45
Alex ferguson is doing Rooney a major career disservice. Just as he successfully did to Alan Smith and John O’Shea. Just play the player where he is comfortable. I said it. Playing Berbatov,and Roovez simultaneously is counter productive. What is Nani’s role in the squad? Or Giggs? They are 5 times better wingers than Rooney. This is infuriating. However id just like to point out that Berbatov is not worth £30m. Daylight robbery. His first touch alone is worth at least £25m. His football brain is worth the Nou Camp. Absolute class
September 13th, 2008 at 13:48
Carrick hasn’t been fit in the half at all, and we’re playing too many long balls hopefully up to Berba. We have a v. talented midfield who are good on the ball, but we’re not using it at all.
Rooney is yet again a victim of his versatility. In fact he’s not been too bad out on the right, but not the best use of his talents.
Giggs and Hargo look to be coming on, Carrick and Rooney i would guess. Stick Hargo on the right, leave Tevez and Berba up front and Giggs on the left.
We need to start playing again.
September 13th, 2008 at 13:51
Flu3- What was Edwin supposed to do with a deflected shot? Jeez. Give the guy a break. Berbatov,non entity? Well tell scholes and co to get it together in midfield first.
September 13th, 2008 at 14:19
@ Jay wire -
he didn’t have to deal with it, Wes Brown was in pole position to put the ball behind a.k.a. play safe. he never had a decision to make until he gave himself a problem & once he made it there was only ever one outcome. Wes Brown would have put that ball into row Z & rightly so but Edwin’s eagerness to be involved led to the goal.
so in closing, “what was he meant to do with a deflected shot?”. LEAVE IT.
the fact he was @ full stretch meant he was never going to be able to deal with the ball properly.
September 13th, 2008 at 14:24
Liverpool fully deserve their lead. We’ve gifted them two goals, and we’ve been dire. Absoltuely gutted with the performance.
September 13th, 2008 at 14:25
Sooooooo how good are we? How good is our defence? How good is our midfield? And tell me how good is our strikers?
September 13th, 2008 at 14:25
beachryan pretty much said what i’m about too.
we deserve no more & no less, if this is a sign of how Fergie is going to manage the 3 strikers, i’m afraid.
if he was going to play 4-4-2 one of them had to miss out.
September 13th, 2008 at 14:26
I cant say that I’m surprised. Our midfield has been simply overrun. Can’t attack if your mids dont do anything
September 13th, 2008 at 14:26
our defense is horrible.. we are all wobbly.. Goodness gracious..Run Rooney run
September 13th, 2008 at 14:27
We have been absolutely pants!!!!!
September 13th, 2008 at 14:29
Anyone who says we can do without Ronaldo is an idiot!!! We miss him so much it is disgusting!
September 13th, 2008 at 14:30
diving faggot
September 13th, 2008 at 14:32
Just win a freekick for Hargreaves please so we can break Liverpool’s freakin hearts!
September 13th, 2008 at 14:35
ital faggot get the fuck off the field
September 13th, 2008 at 14:36
Great, not like we needed vidic for Chelsea. Great effort mate. Very clever.
September 13th, 2008 at 14:36
I miss CQ. Poor tactics from the word go. Only thing Ferguson got right was the defence. Then again i would have got it right too. Poor poor poor. This will no doubt demoralise the players. Im not anticipating Chelsea game. Horrendous team selection. Does anyone else wish to argue that playing Roovez and Berba at the same time would be a calamity. Zero bench options. I said a few days ago and i hate to be proven right. Oh and vidic has gone bananas.
September 13th, 2008 at 14:39
i should have stayed in bed
September 13th, 2008 at 14:39
we just got fucked
September 13th, 2008 at 14:41
Freakin Red Card…I am at a loss. I cannot believe this game. I absolutely do not recognize this team. I knew it would be tight, but come on, we have had no flow to our game today at all. Paying 30 million pounds for Berabtov is useless if your service to him is shite! I certainly hope Cristiano is back as Sir Alex has mentioned, because we are shite without him.
September 13th, 2008 at 14:42
oh well
September 13th, 2008 at 14:42
fergie lost that for us. The introducion of giggs absolutely FUCKED the ballance of the team.
Im disgusted. What an embarrasing performance
September 13th, 2008 at 14:43
The only good news was, it’s not like liverpool were very good. Our team has barely played together this season for one reason or another, and we still could have easily had a draw. If not for some serious stupidity from Giggs and VDS, we’d have been fine. Liverpool still don’t look title contenders for me.
The good news is that we can finally start our season now, we have Ronaldo back and we can work out how we want to accomodate our formidable team into a starting XI. Still no reason to get scared just yet.
September 13th, 2008 at 14:43
shit shit shit shit i hate these fuckers
September 13th, 2008 at 14:43
we had no help
September 13th, 2008 at 14:44
shit, its Giggs and Van Der Sar’s fault… this is a hard pill to swallow,
i can accept us losing to chelski or gooners, but to the scousers?! shit, just shit. my weekend is bummed now. shit shit shit 
September 13th, 2008 at 14:44
If Vidic appeals, will that process take longer than a week? I.e., can he play Chelsea next week then miss the one after?
September 13th, 2008 at 14:45
good luck getting your hubcaps back you diving faggots
September 13th, 2008 at 14:45
there is nothing more in this world than i hate than losing to the fucking council house pricks dippers, even more than brasil losing to argentina, and that was by far a horrible performance, i got errands to run at the mo, i’ll be back calm and i’ll rant with a match report
September 13th, 2008 at 14:45
there was no passion , no hunger for the win and we got our ass splitted with cums…..Our defense was horrible………passive lovers we are
September 13th, 2008 at 14:45
Beachryan- you can’t appeal 2 yellows only straight red cards, he has missed the game
September 13th, 2008 at 14:46
fergie loves playing experience and look what experience did! thanks for that VDS and Giggs.
September 13th, 2008 at 14:47
haha. they ran us riot in the second half! we did not have a midfield!! rooney disappeared as usual…not sure what his role is exactly in the setup!! liverpool midfield fucked our midfield in the rear! alonso and mascherano dominated that game! Pool deserved the win…
September 13th, 2008 at 14:48
looked to bee 451 or 4231 with ando and roon out wide and tev threw the middl? is that right
September 13th, 2008 at 14:50
I wish I could say “There!” to all our over-positive fans, but I’m too pissed now and I’m sure everyone else is too. Like I said before, “anything” can happen in these games and sadly we looked shite today. It’s almost as if the team went in after the 1st half, and came back out leaving their boots behind.
We looked like Zombies in the second half. Zombies!
September 13th, 2008 at 14:50
mascherano dominated the end of the game by diving to get a free and laying down when he was getting subbed to waste time a real dominant performance worthy of an oscar. greasy faggot
September 13th, 2008 at 14:51
@john freakin’ o’shea: Exactly! I could have taken a loss over the goons or the rentboys any day rather than losing to the dippers. The tactics and substitutions were horrible. VDS and Brown didn’t have any understanding for the first goal.
September 13th, 2008 at 14:51
we gave them two easy goals, it could have been a draw. berba was only good for the first 20 min. after that, kaboom!!! we got smoked. and rooney on the wings, no way man. rooney was pure shit today. and giggs, you shouldv gave them the corner instead! shit shit. and now what, with vida out, chelsea has one less problem on us. shit. both the scousers and those rentboys must be celebrating right now. sack phelan!
word of the day: Shit.
September 13th, 2008 at 14:52
@Godzilla: Rooney dissapeared “as usual”??? Maybe that’s cos he’s not playing where he’s supposed to “as usual”!
If anything, he was one of our better players today.
Anderson, Scholes….WTF!!!
September 13th, 2008 at 14:52
gator: it doesnt matter if it didnt work. am so pissed off. stayed home for the game we got fucked really bad. no VDS next game either. Of all the ppl Alonso and Masherano dominated us! SHITE
September 13th, 2008 at 14:52
well, for me, 1 thing i couldnt miss from this game was that rooney cant play wide out…just a waste of a position. SAF better know how to accommodate roon, tev and berba…or be brave enough to bench one of them..
our game was being played as though there was no midfield…
our possessions ended up all from defender to striker and then back to a scouse…
i think Jay wire said it right, we miss CQ and the tactics went all wrong..no way we would have had we not played all 3 – rooney, berba and tevez together…they just played off of our giving away the ball cheaply and the transparent midfield…
September 13th, 2008 at 14:54
Please find another coach to replace CQ. I mean. Im speechless. Only my keyboard can testify. Poorest of tactics. And strange as this may sound,Im actually worried that its still early days. Poor Rooney. Will most likely bear the load of the result with everyone blaming him. Poor Berba. Will be termed as ineffective even if he had service ranging from little to zilch. Poor Carrick. Once again crocked. Poor Giggs. Played a thousand roles in 45 min. Poor Edwin. Gets the blame for failing to have three sets of eyes. He should have kept an eye on the ball and on the oncoming Brown and Riera. Simultaneously. Oh and he failed to anticipate the path of a heavily deflected shot. All this in the lengthy time period of half a nano second. Kudos to u Flu3 for spotting that. Only player i would lay the blame on is Anderson. Played like a coward. Supported noone.
September 13th, 2008 at 14:54
As some other people already stated they deserved the win. I don’t even know what to say. There was not a single good player on the pitch today. Everyone was scared, very slow , slopy…all of them seemed they didn’t care. We look really pathetic without Ronaldo. I mean we have couple of hundred million pounds worth of talent on the pitch, but we looked so pathetis. I know it was never gonna be easy at Anfield, but at least we could have give them good run for their money. VDS and Giggs were guilty of both goals, but the whole team looked like shit. Don’t know what to else to say.
September 13th, 2008 at 14:58
Even with those two stupid goals given by United (olé oldies – Giggs and Van der Sar), Liverpool deserved the win! Mascherano and Alonso controled the game, and Fergie did nothing to change that as usual…
Some tactical thoughts… Anderson should never be the “second” central midfilder, it´s simply not his position. Either he is the third one (or second striker) or he should play in the left as he played during the first half. We can forget playing with Rooney, Tevez and Berbatov at the same time. What´s the point of having a milionaire team, if we don´t put the players in its positions. I just don´t get it.
We all knew that it would be a difficult start of season, but if we don´t get a point at Stamford Bridge (which will be difficult playing like this), things will get very dark…
Oh well…let´s wait for Villarreal.
September 13th, 2008 at 14:58
t@Jay wire: I agree mate. Is this the same old Anderson who ripped Liverpool apart last season!?? My, how times have changed!
September 13th, 2008 at 14:58
@Jay wire: spot on mate. it’s like we played 4-0-6. we didnt have any midfielders it seems. it could have been a draw when bebra knacked the ball and hit a dipper’s arm ref’s didnt gave us a penalty… i hate this day, i cant imagine fat rafa smiling laughing.. drinking booze and all… shit.
September 13th, 2008 at 15:03
word of the day: shit.
September 13th, 2008 at 15:03
We went to pieces after the VDS mistake. Needed Rio to take charge and calm things down, start playing ball to feet. Fergie was strangely quiet on the bench. Carrick certainly not ready and now crocked. Scholes looked tired, Anderson was like a headless chicken. We suddenly look bereft in midfield.
Roll on the game at Old Trafford and hopefully sweet revenge.
Let’s be clear about this: Rooney is a STRIKER. When Ronaldo comes back he is a midfielder. This needs to be sorted immediately. We can’t put this down to an off day as we were out classed in the second half. Still, the scousers needed two mistakes to score their goals. But that second half performance is the worse I have seen Utd play for a long, long time.
September 13th, 2008 at 15:03
You know the problem with united is they are too loyal to their players. I know what people say about fletcher and o’shea but they should not play. They did not play today but i mean a problem in more a long term way so am not saying it is down to them in todays match. In the chelsea game who will we play at cb? John o’shea thats who. He is a player that only impresses in 1 position and that is left back. He has been played at centre back for years and never impresses and yet he will play there against chelsea. Jonny evans is a great player and i would throw him in there as he is a centre back. Same with fletcher start possebon against chelsea and they will impress more than fletch and oshea.
September 13th, 2008 at 15:05
1449: “Man Utd without Ronaldo is like a car without wheels it just doesn’t work.”
Adam, Darlington, via text on 81111
It’s statements like these that pisses me off even more! The worst thing is that it’s not true, but made to sound very true after a performance like that!
September 13th, 2008 at 15:06
the more i reflect on the team the sicker i feel.
Can anyone tell me out team by the end of the match?? what a fuckin shambles.
Really think giggs should retire…seriously
September 13th, 2008 at 15:08
I wish people could be reasonable here. Ferguson and his assistant should take 95% of the blame. It seems people are automatically programmed to say ‘Rooney was shit’ after every game. Is Nani a better winger than Rooney? Yes. Even Giggs is. So why were they on the bench and Rooney playing for them? What happened to the Park who was impressive in the Super Cup? Not Rooney’s fault he was instructed to do what he cant. Berbatov was ineffective? Right. What exactly did he do wrong? Is he not supposed to be on the receiving end of reasonable midfield service? Yes he is. So was the service reasonable? Yes. As reasonable as George Bush’s service to the civilised world. Pathetic
September 13th, 2008 at 15:09
@Matthew: brown and rio will start in the center…gary/JOS at RB
September 13th, 2008 at 15:09
if this game showcased anything its that Carrick is virtually irreplaceable and Fergie need s a need experienced assistant manager
September 13th, 2008 at 15:12
FEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEECKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
FUCK THE SCOUSERS, FUCK THE DUTCH IN THAT GAME AND FUCK RAFA!!! Man this is terrible, I havent felt like this since the game vs City in February!
September 13th, 2008 at 15:13
@antsBoy:
the thing though is that it IS true. we look functionally inept w/o Ronaldo right now.
September 13th, 2008 at 15:18
Hahahahahahaha – FFS calm the feck down. L’fool were due a win, and 2nd half they deserved it. Our midfield made Alonso and Mascherano look like feckin Titans. I said this game would be won in the midfield, and it was. L’fools midfield were better than ours today. The Pool will feel like world beaters now, and they will be lulled into a false sense of security that it is their year to win the league. Truth is though, United are poor, poor starters, and anyone who plays us early in the season can get points from us. We are not up and running yet. Haven’t trained together for 2 weeks, and the lads have never played with Berba. Vidic’s 2nd yellow was definately deserved, that foul was looked bad. Anyways, truth be told we should have been 2 goals up before they got their goals. Tevez missed two sitters. I will refrain from saying ANYTHING about Rooney. Let L’fool have their
day, they earned it in the 2nd half. We do miss CQ, and need a coach who when playing 5 in midfield, will give us two who can play with width, and preferably one who is not Giggs. Why the feck Carrick wasn’t taken off, he was knackered for 25 minutes of 1st half, his injury making him a casualty. I think Fergie was still in the South of France on september break, as he said on MUTV yesterday. Well, hope that is the kick up the backside Fergie and everyone else needs. Fergie particularly will be smarting. I’m not too discouraged, cos we played our worst SHIT, and L’fool only just beat us, and that was due to OUR OWN contribution to their goals.
September 13th, 2008 at 15:20
t-reason, that is exactly what i am saying. When we have an injury instead of replacing a centre back for a centre back like for likw, we move a player from 1 position to another shifting about 3 players around. I know brown is a centre back but that means we play oshea, neville, hargreaves at right back. Neville i don’;t think will ever return back to his form (zenit match), oshea is a crap rb and can only play at lb, and we need hargreves to play instead of carrick who is injured. Why does oshea play at rb when he never impresses there and never has over the last 3/4 years. Why not just give evans a chance. Evans is good enough to play there. Scholes hasnt impressed, time to play possebon.
September 13th, 2008 at 15:24
Ants boy- U are on target. Now its gonna be Ronaldo is Manutd. Even with him on the pitch not much would have happened. The formation was poor. Tactics were non existant. Every player was clearly confused about their roles. The team management was the reason we lost. Not the absence of Ronaldo. Are people that scared to lay the blame on Ferguson and his team of coaches. And another thing. Anderson should play reserves until he is serious. Not a question of talent or potential,but based on character and attitude. He is too scared to do the daring things an attacking midfielder should do. Im severely pained to say this because he is one of my favourite players. But for the sake of the team and himself he should seriously start asking questions of himself. And Rooney should look for another team to play for before Fergie succeds in doing an Alan Smith on him and destroying his career.
September 13th, 2008 at 15:25
nybody else feel that Scholesy, Edwin, and Giggsy should play minor roles this season – NO, just me then. They should be being phased out now, and fresh people blooded. I would rather we blooded the new boys this season, even if it means we don’t win the PL again.
September 13th, 2008 at 15:27
haha no!
wat is wrong with evds. we need to get a better goalie in quick. foster where are you. good beginning. shite for the rest of the match. I AM GUARANTEEING NOW THAT MAN UTD WILL WIN AT LEAST 2 TROPHIES THIS SEASON IF NOT FOUR OR FIVE!!!
remember last season???????? exactly. dnt be scared. liverpool will flop.
September 13th, 2008 at 15:28
OK so that was easily the biggest load of shite i’ve ever seen at Anfield, and i mean thats where Liverpool play! The thing about this game is that I can’t see any reason why we should have won. We didn’t keep possession at all. We let them walk all over us. This is something I’ve never done but I’m going to lay the blame squarely at SAF’s feet. I never thought I would say that Liverpool had more width than us but that was the case and I think that for the first time in my life I’ll now say that Liverpool completely deserved to win that game.
Ok so tactics wise, what the fuck was Rooney doing at RM. I thought we were finished with this after buying Berba(more on him later). Rooney stayed on that wing the whole game and lack of the ball forced him to go searching for it at the RB position. Liverpool were set up with Riera and Benayoun hugging the touch lines and we decided that playing 2 central players on the wings would help. Tevez did a decent job of Roaming but that left us short on that side and I’m not sure what Rooney was told to do but he didn’t drift once. At the beginning of the game the commentator said nothing about United was ever rigid but that’s what we were.
Berbatov showed some good touches but played way too deep considering the role he was given in the team. I don’t want to be too hard on him because it was his debut but he did cost 30m so my hopes are high. What use is it having him to hold up the ball when he had no support through the center.
Giggs was our best player in the second half and the only one trying to make things happen. Scholes and Anderson were abysmal. Hargreaves should have been put on at half-time to prevent us from being overrun. Fergie just completely blew it. we should have started with Giggs/Tevez/Nani on the 2 wings. We had no shape about us after the goal.
Also the defence was shockingly bad. Rio and Vidic looked very average and Evra was the only one who looked like he came to play but didn’t get forward enough. When was the last time United scored in the third minute and lost the game? Absolute shite would be a good description of our overall play
September 13th, 2008 at 15:31
Craig mc- I stand corrected but im sure u were advocating a front 3 as was played today. And i argued that such a plan was doomed because Berbatov has hardly trained with us and it would leave us with no options on the bench. Now u saying,well berba hasnt played with us so thats why we were disjointed. If u didnt say that then apologies mate
September 13th, 2008 at 15:34
the little dutch boy on our goal f*cked up, the little welsch boy messed up, the little english sensation cant play out wide. wtf is happeninG!!!
September 13th, 2008 at 15:34
@Jay wire: Totally agree mate. If I was Rooney I would want to have a long, hard talk with Fergie. And did Andy just come back from Brazil yesterday cos he looked jet-lagged!
About the Ronaldo = ManUtd thing, we all know it would have not made much of a difference even if he was on the pitch today..but sadly, it’s just ifs and buts. People are still gonna say it again. You know what? I seriously wish Ronaldo wouldn’t return for another 2 weeks, just to show that this team can play too – we just need to set some things right. Starting with this small lil piece of advice to Fegie – Do not play Berba, Roon and Tevez in the same team for Villareal..or Chelsea..or for ever, until you find a system which fits for all. We almost looked like Chelsea there, trying to make all our stars play.
September 13th, 2008 at 15:37
@Matthew: thing is you cannot do that against chelsea, they got to come in as subs first, get some time on the field and play an EPL time first..cant just bring them in against chelsea of them all
September 13th, 2008 at 15:41
@Jay wire: Dude thats a bit too harsh on Rooney and Anderson. BUT, I totally agree that Rooney was played way out on the right, and frankly can’t remember him being played in his favoured (just behind the striker) position in recent history.
Sir Alex has a massive task on his hands now. It was a major gamble today playing all 3 strikers at the same time and it could have almost paid off.
The major blunder was bringing on Giggs. Not only did he make a rookie mistake and was responsible for the 2nd goal, it was also because of his introduction that the team balance got totally fucked.
It seemed we were playing 4-4-2, with the midfield 4 being Scholes, Carrick, Ando and Rooney. At half time, we needed a midfield anchorman, not Giggs. Hargreaves at the point would have been a much better option. Nani was brought on too late to actually make a difference.
I think I would pick Rooney and Berbatov as the two strikers and Tevez and Rooney can be used interchangeably as substitutes. Playing all 3 together requires a major change in team tactics!
September 13th, 2008 at 15:41
t reason, i realise that but they must be better than players being played out of position. Yes oshea and fletcher are experienced but they are a lb and cm and no where else, so when they play else where they are utter crap, so what i am saying is that i would rather play someone in that position who you have not seen before than a player who has played there and always been crap.
September 13th, 2008 at 15:42
@ JayWire – you had it right in your first post. what is Nani’s role in the squad & you can add Giggs & Park to that too. the game was terribly mis-managed & by the 50th minute i didn’t care which one of the 3 it was but one of Berbatov, Rooney or Tevez had to be sacrificed. the balance of the team was off & caused counter effects throughout the team. as Poor as Carrick & Scholes were their outlet passes were to 2 players without the natural instincts of wingers. the team lacked balance & was crying out for a tactical change. the whole team can be blamed for having a negative effect on eachother, the strikers were poor because the midfield didn’t supply them & the midfield was poor because it was unbalanced due to accommodating a striker. i could go on but. . .
also, not sure if you were being sarcastic about the “3 sets of eyes” thing but positional awareness is one of the main things to being a footballer (particularly a goalkeeper) & this is something i believe he lacks. to claim he would need “3 sets of eyes” to have dealt with that situation is naive. he made a mistake & that’s the end of it, the fact i don’t rate him then becomes a matter of opinion but he is @ blame for the goal.
here’s hoping Portugal keep pulling in results like the ones against Denmark & Carlos Queiroz is back by Spring.
next week against Chelsea has now become pivitol, the thing that annoys me is that UNITED were taken to task by a team containing Benayoun & Riera! & it’s all UNITEDs own making. that game was unbelievably winnable but so terribly mis-managed it will have given them the belief they can actually have a chance in this League. this game will have a greater effect than just today & it shouldn’t have had.
September 13th, 2008 at 15:43
@Matthew: Errr Scholes TIRED
, he hasn’t played for nearly 3 weeks now, he should be fresh as a daisy. He is slow now, and it is sad to see such a great legend playing like that.
Fletcher would have played better on right side of midfield than Rooney ever will, but I blame Fergie for that. After saying that he was going to be fairer to Rooney this season, playing him in his rightful position, he wasn’t. So I will not criticise Rooney again unless he is playing in his right position. That way the Rooney lovers can’t complain people are being unfairly harsh on him.
September 13th, 2008 at 15:49
Player ratings:
VDS-6.5 made the mistake but made some good saves to keep us in it
Brown-6 not to blame for the goal, started well going forward but stopped in the second half
Rio-5.5 didn’t even notice he was playing, didn’t play like himself
Vidic-4.5 same as Rio but a point knocked off for the red card
Evra-7 made some good tackles and got forward when he could
Scholes-3 didn’t look like a world class CM. barely got on the ball, one of his worst ever performances in a United shirt
Anderson-2 didn’t do anything well outside of his great pass to Berba for the goal
Carrick-N/A was playing with an injury most of his time on the pitch so unfair to rate him IMO
Rooney-5 did what he could, made some good touches but played out of position and largely inneffectual. Why after such a great performance for England was he pushed out there? complete ineptness by the management
Tevez-6.5 better than Rooney and drifted inside more than him but still average for most of the game. added .5 for the goal
Berbatov-5.5 outside of his pass for the goal, showed some good touches but was largely disappointing
Giggs-6 our best player in the 2nd half IMO
Hargo-5 invisible when he came on, didn’t have the effect that he was brought on to produce, lacks match sharpness
Nani-5 didn’t have much time to produce but didn’t cross as well as he can
September 13th, 2008 at 15:50
@flu3: Mate quote “this game will have a greater effect than just today, and it shouldn’t have.” My answer to that, WILL IT FECK mate. It won’t make any difference to the outcome of the league. It will still be Chelsea, Arsenal or US
.
September 13th, 2008 at 15:51
I picked the apples off the tree this morning. The first harvest as we’ve only been in this house for under a year. I wondered what ‘type’ they were and found the tatty old sticker sticking out of the soil. This label told me the apples were ‘Red Devils’. “Ah, this is surely an omen”, I reasoned, before going into the house to watch this eagerly awaited game.
How fucking wrong can you be?
The apples are a bit tart as well!
September 13th, 2008 at 15:53
When my mates start winding me up about this rare loss, I like most United fans all around the world will cite the example of last season and say, last season we were even worse off after 3 games and look what happened come May.
I am actually glad this loss came so early up in the season. After the highs of last season, we are faced with another season and is there enough motivation to re-achieve those trophies? History tends to disagree, BUT losing to Scousers, bringing in Berbatov and improvements in last season’s newbies should provide enough impetus to atleast win 1 or 2 meaningful trophies, right?
We will know soon enough, over the next 2 games. The team which shows more hunger will win at Stamford Bridge.
September 13th, 2008 at 15:55
@Liam: Giggs best player in 2nd half? He was partially responsible for the 2nd goal man! Yes, he did get a decent shot on target but other than that, he was no better than anyone else in a white shirt today
September 13th, 2008 at 15:56
Some very good insights being put forward here, but as usual we also get fed with some rants which are too focused on this one game. Of course, losing to Liverpool is hard to take!
However, I actually think that we have not been playing too well in the last encounters at Anfield but still have come out on top. This time Liverpool was simply better than us and as have been put forward many times our midfield was not in battle mood at all…
So not much to say than that this is a bad result and that I am sure that we will be well positioned to challenge for the league when the management get the balance right again.
September 13th, 2008 at 16:00
@Mihir: yeah but that’s one more than anyone else managed and he showed more urgency than anyone IMO. As for the second goal, we had 2 CBs on the line marking one player and afraid to close down Babel so is it their fault we lost? no, is it Giggs’? NO
September 13th, 2008 at 16:01
Does anyone want an apple?
September 13th, 2008 at 16:02
@themec: wtf?
September 13th, 2008 at 16:08
Our midfield just looks shit this season. Maybe it is the injuries or players are taking time to warm up. But against defensively minded teams like Chelsea and Liverpool it does not matter how good your attack is you have to win the midfield battle to win the game.
We SHOULD have played Fletcher and Anderson in the middle or brought on Hargreaves sooner.
September 13th, 2008 at 16:14
@Jay wire: What I said Jaywire Bro, was that Fergie would not leave Berba on the Bench, even if it meant playing all three together, and I was right
. As most of you were advertising a Roovez partnership, I said I didn’t think that would happen, and it didn’t really. You should no me by now Jaywire, I want Nani in the team, out on the left, and somebody other than the Roon out wide right. How Fergie is going to accomodate all 3 is his headache, but we should never play that formation we did today, and not have a plan B. I felt mate, that ON FORM, before the England game, Berba and Tev should have played. But the Roon in his right position for England, showed some v. good form. So it was a dilemma for Fergie. However, we were fuck poor in midfield, as I advocated we would be, and I was right. Look, I know that Scholesy and Giggs have been absolute legends for United, but they aren’t playing like that any longer. Time to phase them out, and blood some of the other new boys. As I said, I truly believe that they should have bit parts now. To me, it seems a long time since Scholesy has BOSSED midfield. But he has is supporters, and they will no doubt feel differently. Giggsy always gives the ball away, ans I believe we have been carrying him for a while now. Thing is, both these players, because of unexpected ‘one moment of magic’ that can change a game are played. But it becomes more apparent, that if midfield inefficiency like todays continues, they will not get these little moments to shine, while the rest of the time contributing little. I am not discouraged though, because we are very poor starters, and I believe we have the players, it is just a question of getting the right blend. Do you think we need a first class technical coach to replace CQ Jaywire, as I do.
September 13th, 2008 at 16:18
I hate seeing Rooney out wide, but if thats where he HAS to be played, then at least put him out wide on the LEFT where he normally drifts anyway. Tevez IMO would have been much more effective in the role Rooney played today, and vice versa. Still, it’s a shame to see guys like Scholes and VDS putting in such a shit performance against the dippers. We gifted that game away with a nice bow on top, by far the worst united performance I’ve seen in a long time. I would NEVER have belived we would play worse against the dippers than we did against Newcastle. FUCK. Thats all I got.
September 13th, 2008 at 16:23
for me, one of roovez or berba needed to be the second sub, and we should have reverted to our familiar 4-4-2. with preferably tevez going off for nani. that would have given us width, allowed rooney to play his fucking position, and given the players a system that they knew.
because i swear i have never seen such wayward passing from united before. not only that, but their touch was often letting them down for unforced errors all match long. we played like shit, and we deserved to lose.
mind you liverpool didn’t deserve to win, but we deserved to lose.
oh well, on to the next game. i’m hoping the brazilian lad gets a turn at right back for the chelsea game. although we’ll probably end up with Oshea. . or Neville.
. . i could live with Hargreaves actually.
September 13th, 2008 at 16:26
@themec: a perfectly good “apple” day seems like shot to hell doesnt it mate?
September 13th, 2008 at 16:26
Well time to get optimistic, at this point last season we had lost to City and had 2 points from 3 games. This season we have lost to Liverpool and have 4 points from 3 games so we still have a long way to go before anything is settled but we need to get ourselves sorted out soon
COME ON UNITED!!!
September 13th, 2008 at 16:34
In retrospect, we can all say that Fergie got the formation heavily wrong. An audacious attacking team, turned out that it couldnt cope with being continuously pressurised in the second half, and making nonsensical substitutions did us in. The team totally lost its way after in the second half.
Liverpool weren’t creatively or technically better than us, but they showed more hunger and played a limited, but systematic and familiar system. And yeah, they ran at everything.
September 13th, 2008 at 17:05
@Craig Mc:
Exhibit A: Sammi Hyppia: A good/ great player in his time having served his time and slowly being put to gradual retirement by the manager – cue non european selection.
Exhibit B: Ryan Giggs / Paul Scholes: Two legendary/ bestest ever players to ever grace football that the manager continues to play out of past sentimentality / supposed experience. The fact that they cannot deliver the goods on a week to week basis is so obvious to all that’s it has already got past being embarrassing to all concerned.
Exhibit C: Anderson – The little guy from Porto Alegre could well turn out to be one of the biggest disappointments in the coming months. Not only he’s far from justifying his price tag, but he also displays a complete lack of footballing brains – which is very worrying for one playing at CM. Bring on Possebon – he may not have the natural footballing skills of Andy but the lad is scoring crackers for fun in the reserve and has displayed prominently the much more natural instincts of a CM that is looking to make others play. The problem with Anderson is that he has hardly played like the boy who shits on Fabregas since well before the middle of last season.
Exhibit D: Edwin Van der Sar – He too has shown by the end of last season that he’s past the sell by date when it comes to reliability. The reason he’s still no.1 is that he gives a psychological bonus to our back four which can make them more impermeable.
Exhibit E: Michael Carrick – The second most important player in the team. Repeated decline in performance levels following the substitution of subject Carrick tends to confirm this hypothesis.
Exhibit F: Sir Alex Ferguson – Two words – Pants tactics
September 13th, 2008 at 17:05
liam, the second goal WAS giggs fault, all he had to do was put the ball out, a new born baby would of fell over the ball and still put it out, why didn’t gigs? no, he thought he would try and win us the goal kick, look what happend there.
September 13th, 2008 at 17:13
@Nico QB:
exhibit a-correct
exhibit b-giggs yes, scholes no
exhibit c-so where were you last season?no
exhit d-correct
exhibit e-your joking right!
September 13th, 2008 at 17:15
a combination of Fergie, one mistake from giggs and VDS lost us the game….
Why try and accomodate three strikers when u should save one for added power later!??!
Why try and play a proven big game player like Anderson on the left when u have two wingers avaible?
a clear case of trying to accomodate the vast array of talents in central Midfield and striker department.
poor man management this time… should have played 442 and gone with nani giggs scholes and carrick and berba and rooney and sub tevez and hargreaves later in the game for scholes and rooney
September 13th, 2008 at 17:16
Im as gutted as most people on this site today as the abuse I’ll take later will be unbearable………
Anyway my view after this match is we lost it because
(1) No hunger to win the ball….. we lost every 50/50 challenge we put in and may I add we didnt put in many!
(2) Every lose ball was won by Alonso and the prick from Argentina
(3) Excusing the defense with Ferdinand as a leader the rest of the team lacked a leader or inspiration to hold on to the ball and play their way back into the game
(4) Scum won not because of skill but because they were more hungry!
(5) Rooney was played out of position
Fergie give out crap to them and sort it as we need to be right for Chelsea next week!
September 13th, 2008 at 17:19
nico… u are spot on for some, and so wrong in others…
i am with craigmc on this… his answers were correct…
scholes today looked outta sorts tho…
September 13th, 2008 at 17:23
@dan(u-ol): Giggs wasn’t the last man and there was another player (can’t remember who) between Mascherano and the goal. Nobody picked up Babel either so blaming him alone is just unfair.
September 13th, 2008 at 17:24
Well, that was certainly depressing. Certainly not what we were all hoping for. But lets face it gang, the odds were against us from the start. I mean really, how many times in a row can we walk into the dreaded Anfield and expect to win? We were bound to lose eventually however, losing the way we did was just not acceptable. There were some positives in this game but lets be honest, the team really laid an egg out there and I will be very quick to put the blame right on the lap of SAF.
United introduced a starting lineup which for me was a nightmare in a road game against a hostile and hungry opponent. First off, you don’t start all three of your forwards in the game. I like and prefer to have one come off the bench fresh and full of piss and vinegar. Ferguson really disappointed me today as Cabbage Patch Capello actually provided a primer on Wednesday on how you play Wayne Rooney. But Fergie decided to use the boy as a sacrificial lamb by playing him out wide and once again wasting the boys skills and contribution to the offensive side of the game. Had he started as a second forward playing just behind Berbatov, he would have been more dynamic and would have also helped provide more quality service to Berbatov. Instead he was once again misused and to his credit, the lad didn’t play badly.
Berbatov played well and his setup of Tevez for our goal is exactly what I have said all along about him. Vision and the ability to hold up the ball and feed others. He’s not just a goal scorer, but a supplier of finesse passes which will provide many goals in the future. Too bad he had no midfield to service him the entire afternoon. And he seemed to slip out of the game once he received that injury that slowed his game considerably in the second half. Berbatov is only as good as the service he receives. Clearly our midfield lacked pace, ambition and width. Sure Ronaldo would have made a big difference but I think starting both Nani and Fletcher instead of the woeful Anderson and Scholes would have given us more speed and width. Anderson for me still leaves me unimpressed. Yes he made the pass for what should have been a second goal by Tevez but he clearly has lapses in the game that I find disturbing. Scholes just looked old and slow and rarely threatened Liverpool with an offensive pass or forward run. For two years now I have been crying for an attacking central midfielder like a Ballack, Lampard, van der Vaart, Arshavin etc. Fergie clearly doesn’t get it. He continues to play with two DMFers which is alright if you have Ronaldo on the pitch along with Nani in a 4-2-2-2 or 4-2-3-1. But playing 4-3-3 and using all our forwards at once while not having any pace and width in the midfield was just ridiculously naive and inexcusable for the Boss.
But what is our biggest problem besides a poor midfield, using all our forwards and playing Rooney out of his position, lacking any real movement or imagination off the ball (watch the Zenit tapes and watch how they move without the ball) and putting out there the wrong formation, lineup and tactics? Simple, our defense is a shambles and it starts with EVDS attempts to imitate the days of Calamity James and the lack of focus and responsibility from our back four. van der Saar was terrible. His fault alone on goal #! and his poor job of judging crosses into the box almost cost us two more goals. Yes he can stop penalties but he has shown many instances of sheer incompetence and stupidity in all the games we have played this season. As a keeper, you should never suffer from hesitation or lack of judgment. He has made numerous gaffs already this year and frankly, it has to stop. He’s a quality keeper and what is wrong with him has nothing to do with age, unless Alzheimer’s has begun to set in.
Our back four have looked a shambles all season. Too many occasions where bad bounces or decent crosses have caught us flat footed and watching the ball. Evra is letting far too many balls get crossed in from the left side. Vidic seems to be running all over the place trying to do too much.
His red card today is him showing too much heart, passion and having to work too hard to compensate from our fullbacks inability to contain Liverpool and our midfielders poor job of tracking back. I mean what the Hell was Giggs thinking on that second goal? We are playing poorly because our goalkeeper isn’t communicating properly with our defenders or linking with them properly. From there, our back four is not properly linking with our midfielders both from the offensive and defensive side of things and then our midfield is totally lacking pace, fitness and movement to properly link up with our forwards who are being asked to do it all alone up front. Carlos Queiroz, please come back now. Mike Phelan? Mike Phelan? What the fuck is a Mike Phelan? Where the Hell is United’s fast flowing interlocking and interchangeable play with constant movement and overlapping? Where is our movement off the ball and why are we not trying more 1,2’s and give and go’s to crack defenses? And why can nobody on this team other than Nani provide a decent cross with height and pace?
OK, sorry for the negativity here but lets face it, this team is and has been a one man show for far too long. Berbatov will help take a lot of the pressure and dependency from Ronaldo but this will take time. United need to start moving and passing with more pace and purpose. Defensively they need to find their defensive focus and stop making mental mistakes which are costing us big time. Most of my concerns actually come from the Zenit game where we were really found wanting. We deserved at least a point against the Scousers but we had no luck and we fell asleep in the second half. Still, I saw enough from Rooney, Tevez and Berbatov to feel optimistic. But our really poor midfield and woefully calamitous back four and goalkeeping has me really worried. Our back four is our strength and right now they look like our Achilles Heel. Perhaps a better midfield and better concentration will help improve things. But I think the return of Ronaldo and better tactics and a better starting lineup will be what we really need. Fergie is going to have to decide what to do with Tevez and Rooney. They both cannot start and play with Berba already out there. How do you bench Tevez? You can’t based on his effort and current form. Poor Rooney has to be the one based on the fact that he is constantly being played out of position and thus sacrificed anyway. Unless Fergie is willing to give the lad a chance to build a proper partnership. If not, I think he will have to rotate Tevez and Rooney once Ronaldo returns. I have no problem with that. I just do not want to see all three strikers on the the pitch at once unless it’s late in a game and we are behind.
Start Nani and stop with this Giggs and Scholes thing already. Too old and to slow. Here is the lineup I would use from now on in a 4-2-2-2 or 4-2-3-1 formatinons
4-2-3-1
GK EVDS
RB BROWN
CB RIO
CB VIDIC
LB EVRA
DMF HARGREAVES
DMF CARRICK
RMF RONALDO
CMF ANDERSON or SCHOLES
LMF NANI or TEVEZ
ST BERBATOV
4-2-2-2
GK EVDS
RB BROWN
CB RIO
CB VIDIC
LB EVRA
DMF CARRICK
DMF HARGO
RW RONALDO
LW NANI
SS ROONEY or TEVEZ
ST BERBATOV
Either formation will work for us and will focus on the ball being brought up wide and by our skilled wingers while allowing overlaps and forward runs from our fullbacks because we have two deep playing central midfielders. Perhaps I’m more qualified for the job Mike Phelan presently holds.
Now it’s Villarreal in the CL and then Chelski at the Bridge. Fergie has a lot of work ahead of him to try and sort out our problems. Especially after a day where we really had Liverpool where we wanted them without Torres and for most of the game without Gerrard. We really blew a great opportunity and we need to go to the Bridge and really throw a shock into their team considering all the major injuries they are suffering from. How much do you want to bet Ballack will be fit against us? Man I really hate this unfair and brutal first half schedule we have had forced upon us. My worst case scenario is playing itself out perfectly. But lets be optimistic. Ronaldo may be back for both games this week and wouldn’t it be nice to end that unbeaten streak when we are least expected to do it?
Apologies for the long rant.
September 13th, 2008 at 17:25
@Craig Mc: I’m in total agreement their Craig. I’m not ready to give up on EVDS yet but Scholes and Giggs just don’t have the legs anymore to be continual starters.
September 13th, 2008 at 17:33
We need back up wingers or just play the fckn 4-4-2 when we don’t have them ready……..
Giggs-Scholes needs bench…….I ve noticed that when Giggs doesn’t start the game and comes in as a sub he is worse ……..
I loved it when Giggs scored against Wigan last game pf the past season,admired Scholes’s goal against Barca (unbelivable shot) , happy that Giggs scored the last penalty agains Chelski
But that’s it! Enough is enough
September 13th, 2008 at 17:34
wes brown was the weak link to day… but before i go into that….
ANDY AND SCHOLES CAN’T BOTH PLAY AT THE SAME FUCKING TIME!
other than scoring the goal we were poor, but thats what you get for having one day of training.
brown had a shocker, but then VDS is also showing his age…
totally dissapointed today after all the hype, apart from the goal the front line did… fuck all.
4-3-3 away from home?! against a team that play through the middle!?!?
with no fucking wingers?!!? bringing giggs on instead of nani at half time?!!? seriously what the fuck!
rant over.
September 13th, 2008 at 17:35
@Grognard: p.s grognard great to see you back man.
September 13th, 2008 at 17:38
@dan(u-ol):
Ok perhaps I’ll give Scholes a little leeway… But I just can’t picture him giving us more than 1 year and the guy himself seems to be looking forward to retiring, so why not give a few of our other CMs an extended run in the side so as to allow for a transitory CM partnership for future months… Looking at our midfield options in the centre one would be surprised at how much little choice we have what with injured players and off-form players. Oh, and I have always been a supporter of Fletcher at CM, his true best position.
My drift with Anderson is that yes he looked like a world beater early at the start of last season, but midway in it he was more or less slighlty above average. For now, Anderson is simply an attacking non-entity, which is not the case of Possebon. The most we can expect from Andy is a few well placed killer passes.
Carrick is right now the 2nd most important player on the team because his absence reveals how much we are missing him. OK perhaps the 3rd most important after the slave and Rio…
So here’s for my updated team against the rent boys:
EVDS
Hargo Rio Brown Evra
Nani Fletcher Scholes Tevez
Rooney
Berba
Its clear that Tevez is better suited to play AM than Rooney. I remember someone here (Tevez?) saying he used to play LM for Argentina…
September 13th, 2008 at 17:42
this was just abysmal (after the goal) i still can’t explain how pissed off i am about it.. the fact that we had it won in the first min… and yet we just sat back for the rest of the 80 mins… beggars belief!
September 13th, 2008 at 17:46
@Grognard: Hear! Hear!
That’s basically the 3/4 of your midfield grog!
Agree with the Grog’s lineups but isn’t it just depressing to see how many of these players are unavailable for X,Y,Z reasons.
September 13th, 2008 at 17:50
Here’s my problem. Why bring giggs instead of Nani when we clearly lacked width and some pace about the flanks?
Nani should have come on during half time.
September 13th, 2008 at 17:54
G I don’t necesarily agree with not playing Roovez AND Berbatov (not sure if you meant that for all games or just this one.) I think our most effective lineup would be:
VDS
Brown RIO VIDA EVRA
CARRICK SCHOLES/HARGO/ANDERSON
RONALDO NANI
ROONEY TEVEZ
BERBA
I think the main problem with our midfield is that Carrick is the one player in the midfield who does the best at facilatating quick forward movement (Ando sometimes but his passing is to erractic for me just yet) The other chaps (Scholes, Hargo Feltch etc) are just too pedestrian or into the sideways/backwards passing thing….notice ..as for the forwards I absolutely believe you can can play ROOVEZ and BERBATOV….interchanging them behind berba as the point of attack…Rooney def needs to be more central…today i saw why Rooney is better than Tevez…he can do so much more…
September 13th, 2008 at 18:04
we should have promised CQ at least a season of being manager after SAF retires so he would stay.
what in the fuck were all the long balls about? we were getting skinned in midfield but the long balls werent working either. just so frustrating to watch as a pass from vida or ferdi goes over strong dribblers like andy and sholes to roo or vez vs a pool cm. not gonna work.
tactics could have worked with all 3 but tevez should have been on the wing with gigs or nanni on the other and roo behind dimi and 2cdms
4411or 42211
September 13th, 2008 at 18:09
We can’t really throw salt on Berbatov’s game because he wasnt really given anything to work with.
@Grognard: Church, preach, tabernacle.
September 13th, 2008 at 18:09
That Game was seriously Poor! Fergie lost the plot today! Face it! At the start i thought that it was really gonna be a scouse bashing! But now the problem is that at the bridge, who do we play? Either Hargo as RB and scholes + carrick in the middle! I seriously woudl not want gary neville there! Worrying times ahead! Fergie is seriously doing his best to convert Rooney into another Alan Smith! He IS going to RUIN the boy’s carrier for crying out loud. And today, the only thing that we lacked in my opinion was width! If we had that then our CMs would have gotten some space automatically! We miss Ronaldo as he single handedly drew two players to mark him and he also BEAT them! Rooney? Seriously Tevez would have been a better RW but not Rooney! Atleast Tevez can get past people BY HIMSELF which I am afraid is the role of a Winger and it is something that Rooney cant do! Oh Well! Slave Boy, Looks like we are at thy’s mercy
Oh and another note! The Berba’s debut was a good one! I mean he set a goal up. What else could we have expected from him? I mean if he had gotten the service then we really could have carrier out the scouse bashing! Would have preffered if Nani had played on the Right!
At least he knows how to cross and how to dribble!
September 13th, 2008 at 18:25
thumbsucker struck first 4 citeh 1all at the half
maby thell draw or scum will loose. id hat to give shitty the pride
@Grognard: Church, preach, tabernacle.
September 13th, 2008 at 19:08
terry red hahaha
September 13th, 2008 at 19:10
@gator: yeah, i saw that!! Terry is slow, he gets beat with pace all the time… at least he ain’t playing next week when we face ‘em…
September 13th, 2008 at 19:13
Englands Brave John Terry just got a straight Red haha. I thought it was for his shitty tackle but maybe its just because he’s a fucking cunt.
September 13th, 2008 at 19:15
@gator: Damn you beat me to it, I’d be excited about him not playing next weekend if he didn’t suck so bad.
September 13th, 2008 at 19:21
no vidic and no terry…. looks like its gonna be a 4-5 thriller at the bridge… berba for a hatrick.
i’ve calmed down a bit now.. and so what.. let the scouse have their false dawn, fuck ‘em. we will be on top come end of the season. with ronaldo coming back (which is a good thing i may add, although some on here don’t seem to want him back… he’s here, and he’ll play, and once more, he’ll set up and score… no matter how shite wes brown plays)
September 13th, 2008 at 19:24
@John T: Fergie needs to give out crap to himdelf first mate, before dishing it out to his players. Fergie played a team with no NATURAL width, with a player struggling with painful and hampering injury for 25 mins of 1st half. Hargreaves is FIT, he should have replaced Carrick in 1st half, because of the injury. The Fergie sends on Giggs and not Nani. Nani has been on form, and banging the goals in for Portugal. None of us can understand why Nani wasn’t playing. He is the best natural winger in Ronnies absence, and Park would have been the little terrier we all know he is, snapping at them in the midfield. Park doesn’t give the opposition a minutes peace. Those were the kind of players we needed today. Roy Keane said recently that Fergie is a brilliant man manager, but HE IS NOT A GOOD TACTICIAN. Well, we are getting to see perhaps a little bit of what Keane means, and I bloody hate Keane the way he has been mouthing about United. I agree with him about the tactician thing though. I will always love the Fergie though. He had it right in the beginning, when he said that he wanted to bring in an experienced foreign replacement for CQ, a master tactician, and who could speak spanish and portuguese. What happened?. I think Grog might be right when he says that shortage in finance dept is hampering us. Because we bought Berba for 30 million, a satisfactory replacement for CQ went out the window. That’s what I believe anyway.
September 13th, 2008 at 19:32
Bloody hell, did anyone see the post match interviews on MUTV?. Rio was asked about the game, but he looked as though he could hardly answer, because he was so choked up, and looked like he was going to burst into tears. He was devestated with the way United played or rather didn’t play today, as he said. I bloody love Rio. He hates losing, and if our defence has an off day, we can allow it, because it seldom happens. It will happen more and more though, if our midfield is as grossly deficient in effort and pace as it was today. The pressure just kept being thrown back on the defence again and again without respite. Our midfield has been very light for some time. This would not be the case though if Hargo and Carrick were fit. But surely we need to start blooding replacements with strength for our midfield for when these 2 are injured.
September 13th, 2008 at 19:40
The big question will be, will we come out against chel$ki and play with heart (like we should and definitely can) dictating the game and taking it to them: or will we play just as pedestrian as we did today, hoping to catch a break. I think that was a big part of last season, that every time we had a poor performance, the next game we tore into whoever we played, i could really go for that next week.
September 13th, 2008 at 19:50
@Grognard: Great to have you back man. Why were you out so long? Bad day to come back though, hopefully you can make us more cheerful.
September 13th, 2008 at 19:58
I was totally pissed off with Fergie’s tactics and especially the fact he brought in Giggs instead of Nani. Yes eventually he brought in Nani but in my opinion, I think the lad should have started. The game needs width and we never pressed them wide all game and in fact allowed them to cause us problems with their width. NUTS!
As for the money situation, I think they have been hampered greatly and the fire sale of marginal talent, Saha and the loan out of Campbell tells me they had to really scramble to find the cash to buy Berba. But honestly, was Phelan the best they could do? Laudrup and other far superior tacticians were available. Hell, I think even Zola would have accepted that job. Finding a tactically inept Brit like Phelan when we are loaded with so many Samba crazy foreigners was just stupidity of the highest order by Fergie. He has never been a tactically superior manager and so far this season, his man managing has left me cold. The team looks uninspired, unmotivated and out of shape. Our conditioning is really questionable as we have puttered out in the second half of all our games.
No hunger out there. No reason to panic yet but Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal are all getting the business done despite their problems. Chelsea was very good today at City. No Drogba, Ballack, Essien and a red card to Terry but they still won comfortably. Arsenal just destroyed Blackburn and they didn’t even play well defensively. We are missing something and I don’t think it’s just our #7. I think we are looking fat and lazy. It’s time for the hairdryer to come out I think however, has Fergie gone soft? He wouldn’t have tolerated that lack of effort five years ago. I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t concerned. I’m very concerned, but I am not ready yet to push the panic button. Still, I predicted that this schedule would force us to be chasing first from the get go, instead of being front runners.
September 13th, 2008 at 20:02
@Craig Mc: Can yo post the link of the video of the interview??
September 13th, 2008 at 20:04
@RedDevilEddy: Thanks for welcoming me back mate. I actually returned yesterday but had we won today, the timing would have been perfect. I took a break from things as my frustration and temper were getting the better of me and I just saw it necessary to stop for a while. I’m glad to be back though and I hope things start to look better soon as I am already getting depressed. And I have a feeling it’s only going to get worse next week after watching Chelsea demolish City today. Why the Hell can’t we play with that kind of pride and passion? We really looked third rate today and Fergie better fix things quickly. Too bad he hasn’t CQ or somebody tactically competent to help him out.
September 13th, 2008 at 20:16
@Grognard: Well, I really think Fergie had a good tactic in mind. Anderson and Scholes cant play together when they are the ONLY TWO CMS. When Carrick or Owen is there, they play better. Andy was actually a left-winger until the second half. Carrick did well until he got injured. We dominated the midfield battle when we had Carrick there, but something just wasnt ment to be our day today. We didnt lose only because we played bad, we lost because of 2 defensive errors that we usually only do a maximum of 3 times in 10 years. I think the plan was great, had VDS not been so stupid, we probably could have won the game.
September 13th, 2008 at 20:50
@Red Diablo: Red Diablo, there is no video mate, I was watching MUTV. Sorry mate
.
I think we should all just let it go now. Don’t think we should be too depressed after this game. Lets wait for a few more games, until we see if we take off like we did last year
. Sometimes we can be too diagnostic after a game. If the other lads felt like Rio did today, he looked absolutely down, and I think maybe the Fergie hairdryer may have been used. Looking at Rio though, it wasn’t necessary if it was used, cos If the other lads looked like he did, well they need picking up and not knocking down. Rio already looked as though he couldn’t be any more emotionally lower. HE TRULY CARED ABOUT THE LOSS.
September 13th, 2008 at 20:53
Well, I am gonna look at the bright spots of this day. Tevez scored his first goal, Berbatov got his debut, Terry got sent off and wont play against us next week, and The new “Im on Setanta Sports” vid is awsome.
September 13th, 2008 at 21:08
That Riera was pretty good. Skinned Brown every time.
I’m going to reserve judgement on 4-3-2-1, after all it’s the first time it’s been tried, Anfield is never easy etc.
September 13th, 2008 at 21:38
@RedDevilEddy: If you look at it closely you will see that Liverpool missed three other total sitters. In fact, they could have scored four or five today. That’s how bad our defense was. And sorry mate but our midfield played like shite. I saw nothing positive in anything Carrick, Scholes, Anderson or Giggs did today. They looked slow and disinterested and were continually out worked and physically intimidated by Mascherano and the rest of the Scouse bastards. Simply put, outside of the first 15 minutes, we were totally dominated. That’s two games in a row this has happened. Actually, Zenit beat us up even worse. I fear even a worse debacle next weekend unless Fergie can drill some sense into the lads and get them motivated and inspired. It’s too bad too. They should have been motivated over the last 4 weeks to try and show us all that they could play without Ronaldo. Instead, they just strengthened my case that they are nothing without him.
September 13th, 2008 at 21:45
I think it might be time to give Possebon a chance in the middle. He scored a cracker in his last game and he impressed me with his maturity and composure on the ball. Anything has got to be better than Scholes right now.
September 13th, 2008 at 21:56
@Grognard: I was too nervous when the game went on so i am just talking how I felt it when the game was. I probably wasnt paying much attention to where our midfielders were cause I just wanted us to not let in a goal. So, yeah…
September 13th, 2008 at 22:17
it’s nice seeing the long wall of text usually associated with grognard, welcome back mate, pleasure to read your rants,i agree with everything you said bar the anderson comment, the boy had a pathetic game making bad passes except the tevez cross and the pass to berbatov to set him free for the first goal his game was poor though i still feel he has more to offer and he will as the season progresses just give the lad time
anyways moving on to the match report, all i have to say the team deserves a nice 6/10 in terms of performance, and 4/10 of those marks came in the first 10 minutes of the game
VDS- terrible, whenever the ball came near him today i was holding my breath, horrible lapses with 2 crosss one of them ending up an own goal, another almost gifted dirk kuyt one just bad
RATING-2/10
BROWN-worst player on the pitch and has gone back to his old nickname own goal which i gave to him 3 seasons ago, it was only a matter of time before he scored one, and he picked the perfect time to be at the wrong place. terrible riera ran him ragged and was just poor, he is the real weak link of this team
RATING-1/10
Vidic- played his heart out, but way too much, ended up getting red carded, had a few lapses but a decent game bar the 2 offences
RATING-5/10
RIO- invisible for the most part, made a few timed tackles and headers, disappeared for the most part however was the best defender on the pitch, was says a lot
RATING-6/10
EVRA-left back pat, singing your song throughout the game about you frogs and council houses. your defending was poor and when you did do your trademark runs up the pitch, you were ineffective at best
RATING-5/10
CARRICK-was in a battle with mascherano for the most part, once he left, we lost the midfield, made good passes, won many 50-50 balls when he was on, we missed him when he was taken off, hope the injury was not too serious
RATING-6/10
ANDERSOM-poor game, for the first time i have seen anderson play since his gremio days, the boy was not clutch, had 2 good passes, one of which set berbatov loose for the first goal, the second of which should have been a goal if it was not for bad finishing, apart from that the boy was no where to be found, shame, we really could have done with him
RATING-5/10
SCHOLES-oh boy, the man is getting old, i mean old, his is not half the player he used to be, and gave a half performance i was really disappointed with, i hold scholes is such high regard, but when he lets a midfield of alonso and mascherano dictate the pace, something has to be wrong with him, maybe this will be the final season before he makes his bow
RATING-5/10
ROONEY-credit to the boy, played out of position and had no supply or a partner to help, he ended up playing a sort of wing back to help out the poor wes brown, has a decent game, probably the best player on the pitch when he had the ball, shame he was not at the right place to do anything when he did have it
RATING-6.5/10
TEVEZ- decent performance took his chance really well, but i felt he should have had 2 goals instead of one, otherwise did well. one thing i did notice however is his tendency to do toooooooo much when he has the ball, as if he is trying to force a play, he should just relax and let it come to him
RATING-7/10
BERBATOV-it’s so nice to see him play, for all the 20 minutes he did decide to play, showed some signs of magnificence, though once he got hurt, he faded away like a shooting start, however i see more will come from count dracula, and this is just the beginning
RATING-6/10
SUBS
GIGGS-his excuse for playing is he offers experience, well liverpools second goal and his blunder was highly INEXPERIENCED, bloody hopeless, and did nothing when he came on, the midfield was lost on top of that, i love the man, he’s done so much for the club, he’s done it all in fact, i think it’s to let go..
RATING-2/10
HARGO-did nothing what so ever when he came on poor
RATING-4/10
NANI- made a stupid cynical challenge when he came on and got booked as well, has a lot to learn with his temperment
RATING- not on long enough
September 13th, 2008 at 22:26
Grognard, welcome back mate. Just wanted to say that i completely agree with your comment on possebon (comment 165). In my earlier comments i said that i felt that it was time we stopped playing people on their reputation or experience like england and play who we feel deserves a spot and who will do the best when in the line up. I feel that fletcher and oshea are only competent in 1 position and that is left back for oshea and centre midfield for fletcher. Yet despite never impressing when they play in other positions they continue to get picked there. I bet we move oshea and brown around to compensate for vidics loss. We should just throw in evans. He could become the next great player but will probably never get a chance, even though oshea gets chance after chance playing at centre back and always plays crap.
September 13th, 2008 at 22:56
Does anybody else think that there is too much football now?. I mean, pre season, post season, the feckin olympics, world championship, etc etc bloody etc
. Then more international friendlies than ever. Players backwards and forwards like feckin yoyo’s. WHY?. It’s all money, money, money. It starts with all the feckin rich dudes, and company investments in football. They all want feckin returns on their investments, and they play the players ragged. Players don’t get a proper rest anymore. No wonder they get so many injuries. And so much money is at stake, that the stress levels to WIN and finish top 4 are beginning to tell on players who are so feckin tired, that they can hardly think straight sometimes. It is time it all stopped. There was a lot to be said about the old days type football. My old man told me that players had a good summers rest from end may to august. No interuptions with bloody flying throughout different continents to bring in more and more brass. Then there’s tv and media clambering demanding interviews. It’s all to bloody much. We think football is an easy life, but nor anymore it isn’t. Now they want a 39th game, and then it will be 40th, etc etc etc. FIFA, FA, all the other big organisations wanting more and more of players, to keep there coffers full. When will it all end eh?.
September 14th, 2008 at 2:16
The real culprit for our defeat is van der sar. the mistake he made shook the confidence of the back four and they all seemed as though they didn’t trust him to deal with anything otherwards and I know it sounds ungrateful after moscow but I think he’s pretty much finished now for us. Ben Foster and the Pole deserve their chance from here on in. But what really gets to me is how crap Rooney’s been playing for quite awhile now and how he seems exempt from any flack from match goers. He used to be our big game player, forever running and showing a desire for the ball but now he seems to hide and use the excuse of playing out of position. I would drop him and play Park or who may not be the most talented but who gives 100% effort and whose direct running and energy unsettles many top sides( see Roma away and Barca at home). As for next week against the rent boys if someone offered us a draw right now I would take it cos defeat will almost certainly fuck us right up as the league is concerned. Anyroad this is typical MUFC roll on next week.
September 14th, 2008 at 3:11
@Craig Mc: Actually I think the money is more in club football and there is far little commercialisation in international friendlies, Euro’s and olympics.
I think we and the players have lost the right to complain about the commercialisation because private owners do want a return on their investment — the good, it ensures a certain level of quality football, the bad : the need to monetize every fuckin’ inch of the club’s name.
But I’ve decided to stop complaining about it a long time ago because football as we knew it has changed a long while ago. And as United fans, we should of all the people realise that our club has benefited from commercialisation long before the Glazers came over.
In short it cannot stop — like it or not, we have to get used to it.
September 14th, 2008 at 3:26
@Craig Mc: Truly mate the team’s that win championships these days really have to earn it. I mean one only has to go back to the old format of the European Cup. You played no more than 7 games. Now you almost play that just to get out of the group stage. Too many games and too many international games mixed in with the club seasons. All internationals as well as cup games like the European Super Cup and the World Club Championship need to be played in the off season and as replacements to some of these useless money making friendlies in exotic countries. Too much travel and waste and you wonder why the players look tired already. If they can play the EUROS and the WORLD CUP in the summer, then all internationals should be played then. That gives the best players very little time off but if they want to represent their countries, that is the price they will have to pay. Why? Because I am sick and tired of watching National teams and their managers screw over club sides with calups and week to 10 day delays in the schedule which ruins teams momentum and cohesiveness. Perhaps I’m to set in my North American ways where international duty for sports does not get in the way of leagues and club schedules for any sport. How exhausting is all this to players? Well just think of how exhausting it is to us fans. I was emotionally and physically drained after the Champions League final and I’m just an old couch potato. Like many of us, I was suffering from footy overload. And then two weeks later the EUROS started as well as the Ronaldo fiasco which totally drained me and literally lead me to my hiatus. I just had enough and really needed a break more out of physical and emotional exhaustion. I found I was getting to pissed off to easily and it’s because I wasn’t given a break from this bloody game. You brought up a great point as always mate. I hear ya.
September 14th, 2008 at 3:27
Damn it I just can’t seem to get my avatar to work. Fucking computer technology!
September 14th, 2008 at 4:27
The fact that i cant understand is that Fergie spent the whole of the summer saying that he wont sacrifice Rooney again! What happened today then? I mean lets face it Rooney is NO right winger! Even park would be better at that position!
September 14th, 2008 at 5:11
Ronaldo come back
September 14th, 2008 at 5:18
Said it before, and got a shelling out of it. But boy, do Giggs and Scholes need to retire. If they are run over by Liverpool in their crestfallen state, how on earth do we expect them to play any part against a strengthened Chelsea in another CL final? Someone even mentioned Scholes is currently one of the best CM in England. A joke, perhaps?
Hyypia was a good example of a long-term servant slowly being escorted into retirement. And perhaps Sir Alex is to blame for being audatious with his tactics. But truth be told, Scholes was overrun, and Giggs ran into brick wall after brick wall when he came on.
I doubt Giggs will last another season before being a TOTAL liability. Scholes, maybe a few stellar performancs in between the dismal ones, but time is really running down on both of them.
September 14th, 2008 at 6:01
@Red Diablo: That’s a great point. Fergie has learned to take advantage of the boy especially since he is such a team guy and doesn’t care how you play him. I don’t think Fergie likes the idea of telling either him or Tevez that they will have to sit or rotate every other game. Like I said earlier, Fergie is getting soft. Look at his stubborn streak in continually playing Scholes and Giggs over Anderson and Nani. He just can’t look his vets in the face and tell them they will have to sit. Sure that’s probably my own BS but it really makes you think what is priority these days at OT. Winning or the status quo?
September 14th, 2008 at 6:03
@Jonboi: Another reason to retire other than they can’t play at this level consistently anymore, is the money they will free up for future player purchases. Those two with Neville make a mint and they are tying up a lot of money that could go towards an attacking midfielder and another winger.
September 14th, 2008 at 6:45
possebon > anderson ????
September 14th, 2008 at 8:29
We keep saying its just the start of the season etc. BUT let us not forget that if we lose to Chealsea we will be 9 points adrift! that is quite a big difference even at the start of a season. and If you saw chelsea against city yesterday and the way we played against Pool, anyone would put their money on chelsea beating us 2-1 or 2-0 ! lets not take it lightly…our coordination is crappy. we dont have a midfield. we just have defence and the 3 upfront. there is chaos and in my opinion we badly need a good assistant mgr. Even if we get one, not sure HOW soon he can gel into CQ’s role. things dont look good for UNited
September 14th, 2008 at 9:21
The midfield problem was there last season, that’s why the matches against Lyon and Barca were so insipid, Barca was painful to watch, but United won so it is easy to forget. Scholes scored that goal, Scholes calmly passed the ball around in many a match.
I love Scholes, but he just doesn’t have the legs against the powerhouse teams.
Liverpool aren’t anything special, a couple of Park style players in midfield and some proper wide men would have stopped them…bustling energy and width. Not statues and confusion.
I don’t know what’s up with Anderson, but he’s got lots of energy and has room to improve.
Maybe it’s time for a risk and start playing the players who can only get better, instead of the ones who can only get worse.
Sport is such a mental thing too, there something wrong mentally with the team at the moment. some people can be leaders if you give them a chance, otherwise they go sour (Anderson, Nani). Some are always the same and inspire the others to play better (Roy Keane, Ronaldo). Some just float there, they play well but they don’t create a mental vibe ( Carrick, Scholes, Brown). Cantona, now he was inspiring
I say use Anderson and Nani in most matches, give them the power, see what happens, give them the chance to grow up…and feel important
Possebon is a cool player, I think he has massive potential, I reckon he would need some serious legs and lungs players around him if he were to start now though, he is a little off Premiership speed (not skill) from what I saw of him…I can imagine him with Anderson in the middle, what a beautiful risk that might be, a couple of young Brazilians with ambition to burn
But for the moment there at least needs to be some closing down and some tackles, for the whole match
September 14th, 2008 at 9:41
@Zahirsmoscowmule: I hear you mate, but I have stopped trying to make any comments about Rooney and his very inconsistent game play for us, because it whips up a kind of hysteria on here from the Rooney fans. The lad can be bloody marvelous at times, but very average for us a good few times too. I don’t think being played out of position does his game any favours, but truth is, Rooney likes to play his own game. To roam wherever he wants, and he seems to thrive when he is in the thick of it. I have tried to give up on working Rooney out, but I am not impressed with his contribution to us in the department he should be contributing lately.
I agree with you about Edwin. Fergie does have to make a decision on his veterans. Yet, Fergie is reluctant to mess with an established back four. If Fergie doesn’t do something about getting us some strength in midfield for when Hargo and Carrick are injured, I dare to say, we may well finish out of the top four. Still if we win our game in hand, we will have 7 points, and be only 3 points behind Chelsea who have ten. We cannot afford to lose to Chelsea, but with the same midfield, I fear we will. By the way, does anybody feel that Man Shitty only turn up when they play against Man United. That was another roll over from them against one of the other top 4. Their fans looked like feckin idiots dressed as bedouin shepherds –
.
September 14th, 2008 at 9:58
@Red Ranter: RR, if as you say we HAVE to get used to it, then we cannot complain about losing games we would otherwise win, because players as so feckin DOG tired. There’s commercialism, and then there’s GREED, I think football is falling more and more into the 2nd category. Football has lost its soul, because its ROBOTS for MONEY owners demand now. I think the players turn up sometimes, and just churn out whatever they have left, like ZOMBIES.
As for the NO commercialism in international games and olympics etc, and out of or in season lucrative friendlies both international and club games, not bringing in ££££££££££££s, what makes you think that mate. Where do you think the VERY wealthy FA, FIFA etc etc etc get their money?. TV broadcasting alone brings in feckin millions.
September 14th, 2008 at 10:34
well boys, yesterday was awful.. poor Rio, gave his best on the pitch and as captain did not deserve to be the leader of that disappointing performance. Looks like y’all have already said everything, but there’s a few things that really ticked me off…
What’s up with Fergie’s team formation/selection? As soon as the ‘unfit’ carrick got injured, we were run ragged. We have ‘fit’ players like Fletch and Park who could terrorize the midfield but alas, they were no where to be found, instead we bring on another ‘unfit’ player in hargreaves.
Then there’s rooney playing out wide on the right? What happened to Fergie saying he’ll stop sacrificing this boy? Capello demonstrated to Fergie on how and where to play Wayne Rooney – which, coincidentally is where he used to play when he arrived at United – and we all could see how he shone. The boy is born to create chances for himself and others from a central position, yet Fergie continues to waste that talent on the wings, when he and everyone knows Rooney is not the best at beating players!!! Wat happened to Nani, Park or Giggs? why have wingers and not use them?
Berba tried his best, but as soon as he got that knock, he fizzled out and Tevez, apart from the goal, was nowhere to be found.. he is supposed to create chances for Berba, but alas, nothin. The midfield was terrible, an ‘unfit’ carrick and an ageing scholes of course could not compete with mascherano and alonso. What happened to fletch, the guy lives for this type of games. Anderson was just poor and has been for a while, why Nani and Park were not utilised was beyond me… i mean, liverpool had more width than us yesterday!!
VDS was atrocious, it’s like he’s losing his skills, cuz he’s gettin worse with every performance… Evra and Brown had to run up the field a lot to create width cuz we had no wingers and hence left us open a lot and with the absence of a ‘fit’ DMF, Rio and Vida did their best to contain liverpool’s counter attack..
All in all, Fergie’s tactics were poor, it’s like he just put the team together and told ‘em to go out, play and enjoy themselves… the substitutions were poor, after half-time, we looked like we didn’t want to be on the pitch anymore.. maybe this might spur Fergie and the players to have a bit more hunger for winning, cuz at the mo, there’s none..
September 14th, 2008 at 11:02
Our fitness sucks. Our midfield has not looked sharp all season. Blame injuries, returning from injuries, international break whatever. Once the midfield falls apart the defence is placed under pressure and it slips. Anderson looks sluggish and invisible, Carrick played well but didn’t seem fit, Scholes hit some good passes but can occasionally seem lightweight, Rooney is not a midfielder, Hargreaves didn’t get stuck in and so on.
I think Ferguson did not show Liverpool enough respect. We should have adopted a more cautious approach similar to how we usually play in European away games. Loading our team with three strikers was foolhardy especially when our midfield was underweight because of injuries, poor form etc.
We need to start picking teams based on natural positions and fitness rather than trying to fit in all our best players a la England. And yeah I do not think Quieroz would have sanctioned that team selection.
But it is stupid to panic. Our midfield is just not fully fit and we have too many players carrying or returning from injuries. Really we would have lost to far worse teams than Liverpool. So if we are going to lose at least let it be in matches that aren’t must-wins. Same goes for the Chelsea away game.
Last season we had a great record against top 4 teams but dropped silly points against mediocre teams (such as Man City). That is where we have to make the improvement this season.
September 14th, 2008 at 11:38
People say we need new midfielders, well i have been under this impression all season, infact well before the season started. I said from the word go we need a new winger. Apart from ronaldo who do we have as a right winger. Not a player who can play there if needed like flecher or park, but a natural tight midfielder. Just a young player who we can pick up for cheap who has potential and would not mind being 2nd choice. The type of player like a walcott or ashley young. Instead we settle with fletcher who despite scoring twice does not offer much.
Alot of people on here also are complaining about a dominant central midfielder to boss the match. Up until the champions league final i thought that we definitely didn’t need one but after watching us get dominated in midfield in that match i changed my mind. The performance yesterday further fuelled these thoughts. Does anybody think we should make a bid for wilson palacios. He is a quality player but his price tag will be high. I just feel we lack a defensive midfielder with bite. Hargreaves when fit is excellent in the middle but is rarely fit so we don’t have anybody else. Another option is to bring in diarra from real madrid. If ronaldo is to go next season i would like to see him in some sort of swap. During his time in Lyon he was said to better than essien so he is a quality player. The only other option could be to bring in steven appiah on a free tranfer. What are your thoughts?
September 14th, 2008 at 12:07
doom and gloom, rabble, rabble, rabble. We are actually better off at this stage than we were last season. Fergie needs to give CQ a call to help him with his tactics. Chelsea play much more attack minded now and push Bosingwa and A. Hole up the pitch which would allow us to pick them apart if Ronaldo and Nani are on the wings. Rooney and Tevez up front because Berbatov should never have played this match. I knew he would but he shouldn’t have. If we have Fletch or Hargreaves in the middle to gobble up Deco and Scholes WILL play next week ’cause he’s suspended on Wednesday
September 14th, 2008 at 13:30
@Liam: So we are actually better off at this stage than we were last season. Hardly commendable though, is it Bro. Fergie himself said, that if our early performances and points collection were as they were at the beginning of last season, he doesn’t think we will be able to play catch up as we did last year. Arsenal fell away because of serious injuries at strategic times. I am not saying I agree with him, but if we do lose to Chelsea, (and be honest, we have no winning record at their place), then we will be well behind. Apart from anything else, it will not do the moral of the United players any favour. I saw Rio yesterday, he was down, down, down. If the other players are feeling like him, it is not helpful for any of them. FFS we actually MADE L’fool look mighty
.
People on the blog are not dooming and glooming per se, they are right about our midfield. We are impoverished with the players we have when Hargo and Carrick are out for any reason. Fergie can’t be heavily criticised for not doing anything about midfield, because that is what he bought Hargo and Carrick for, to do the strengthening. We have very little else though. If Berba is fit, I still think he will play at Chelsea, I would be surprised ifr he didn’t. Pity Manucho isn’t available yet, because Terry is out, and the Chelski defence are there for the taking. Manucho is Heskey type, and he always hassles Chelski. We need a midfield at Chelsea. I wouldn’t play Giggs, and I wouldn’t play Scolesy if I am honest. We have very little choice. If Hargo comes through with no ill effects on the tendonitis, I would play him. I would give Anderson the rollicking of his life, and tell him to get used to the bench if he doesn’t shape up, and move his arse again. I would NEVER use Rooney on the wing, if Fergie chooses to play Berba, then Rooney should be just behind him, and Tev on the bench as sub. Nani and Ronnie (if as Fergie says CR is back for that game), then the wings and width will be taken care of. Shockingly, I am not sure that I would play Ronnie in the Chelski game, because he will not be up to match fitness yet, or will he –
?. Maybe Park on the right, little snapping terrier. Chelski I have a feeling, will do what L’pool did, and swamp their midfield for this one. I hope we sneak a draw, but not if our midfield is not sorted.
September 14th, 2008 at 14:15
@Craig Mc: true… i said already that i had the feeling Fergie just put the players together and told ‘em to go out, play and enjoy themselves… there was really no shape or width whatsoever and as soon as Liverpool got their act together it was over.
The formation yesterday would have been okay if we had a ‘fit’ and 100% DMF like fletch playing in front of the back four. That will have given evra and brown enuff license to go up and down the wings creating width, and anderson and scholes the freedom to boss masch and alonso. berbatov would push the defensive line back, and rooney and tev will have space in the hole to create opportunities… but alas, that was not to be.
In our next matches, we should start with players who are fit and hungry, the unfit ones should play in the reserves to get back to full fitness or something. We are THE team to beat this season and every other team will give 120% against us, hence we need to be at 100% or more, not taking opposition for granted, we did it with newcastle, and now liverpool – both who were supposedly guaranteed 3 points for us.
The crux of our game is wing attack, especially in the prem, so why not play it? we have wingers, why exclude them and start playing boring, unpenetrative formations? Fergie dropped the ball in the last match, but liverpool were due a win, and we just rolled over and gave it to them.
September 14th, 2008 at 16:25
@Gabriel: Yeah mate agreed. A lot of the United faithful down the pub, were saying they wouldn’t mind the loss, cos as you say, L’Pool were due a win at their place, but it was the way we lost. Many were saying, that the whole of pre season, and since, we have looked out of sorts in games. Like players are just being sent out to fill a gap wherever. Round pegs in square holes, were just some of the things that people were saying yesterday. Most people on here some while ago were all saying that they feared the loss of quiroz more than anything, and perhaps they were right. Somebody was saying that he isn’t doing that well for Portugal, give me a break. I watched the Portugal match, and they should have won that match against the Danes 5 or 6 nil. Never on this earth did they deserve to lose that match. 2 late sneaky goals to the Danes. Portugal were miles the better team in my opinion, and CQ had got his tactics right. We needed to replace him rightly, it doesn’t appear we have done. But lets wait and see over the next few games. I hope things will buck up. If we keep slow starting every year though, Fergie won’t always be able to work his magic. We have yet to get started this season.
September 14th, 2008 at 16:45
Boy I’m reading a lot of negativity over our loss yesterday. I being the Prince of Fucking Darkness have no right to tell any of you not to be so negative and bloody depressing simply because I am the King of negativity and depression and because I happen to share a lot of your feelings. However, lets not completely lose perspective here. This was far from a must win contest. It was only the third match of the season and although it was against the Scouser bastards, it was not vital to our seasonal ambitions. Let Rafa’s dumb fucks win won once in a while just so that they don’t all commit suicide over the fact we own their asses. Hold on…….strike that last comment. On second thought massive suicide of all Liverpool players and manager would be a welcomed event to be sure. What was I thinking?
Now back to our problems. United are in a world of shit and they don’t even know it. If some of you want to take the time or can for that matter, go back well over a year when I first came on to the site and read how many times the old Grognard pleaded, cried and begged that Fergie would sign not only a qualified goal scoring striker but the fact that we were in desperate need for an attacking midfielder and one more winger who could better balance our attack, especially when Ronaldo was not in the lineup. Many disagreed with me about the winger as we had signed Nani and everybody thought I was nuts about the AMFer because they all thought Scholes was fine and that Anderson was supposed to be some kind of Ronaldinho. Well it’s been over a year now and I do not see any Ronaldinho in the lad. More like Ronald McDonald actually.
Nani has been a massive disappointment for me as his consistency has been an issue for me as well as his temperament and 10 cent head. Now before my old mate Craig jumps all over me about Nani, don’t completely feel that I don’t see his plus side. The boy is a great play maker and has a very lethal shot as well as being a strong dribbler in one on one encounters. But lets face it, the lad is almost 22 not 17 like Ronaldo was when he first showed up. He should be farther along and more mature than he has shown. He also seems to have regressed badly since he was benched and got a bad scolding for that stupid red card he took at season’s end. I’m just not sold on him right now and I don’t know if I ever will be. Believe me I want to but he needs to grow up, be less moody and show much more determination and energy out there. In games where he has played he has yet to say “I will be your new Ronaldo and make you forget.” Instead he goes through the motions and at half the pace. Still, this lad has loads of talent, got many assists for us last year and is the best crosser of the ball on the team (although I think Hargo is slightly better). Where is the hunger to prove yourself like Ronaldo exhibits every game? What he needs is for a super talent like Alex Sanchez to push him. Right now he is depressed because no matter what he does, Fergie prefers old Giggsy who is well past it. This can only contribute to Nani’s feelings of hopelessness and may account for what I see as a lack of effort. Why work your socks off when and old player will constantly be chosen in front of you? He has a point, but he is also immature if that is his reason for not playing for us the way he does for Portugal.
As for Anderson, I have never been a big fan or a loud supporter of the lad. I don’t dislike him, I just don’t see what the big hoopla is all about? What exactly is it about this player that gets so many of you up off of your chairs chanting ANDERSONSON ANDERSONSON etc? He is a decent passer of the ball and until recently ran his heart out and defended fairly well from central midfield but I have yet to see the skill set that makes me believe that he is the heir to Scholes. He cannot score a goal for his life and he has no finesse in his game. His good passes are strictly ground huggers and he has never shown me the ability to chip or lob a pass into an attackers path and has not shown me that he can change and manage the tempo of a game. He is a great dribbler at high speed but his decision making processes do not work at that speed. Quite often his endeavors end up as nothing more than a forlorn hope. Yes he is young too but I just don’t see in him what a young Scholes had once moving from striker to AMF. I want a Bobby frakken Charlton, Michael Ballack, Juan Riquelme, Diego Maradona in that position, not Mr. Anderson. I want the AMF of Manchester United to be a talisman and a play maker capable of setting up players with goal scoring opportunities and taking enough chances himself to score in double digits year after year. Unrealistic, perhaps. Maradona’s, don’t pop up very often but there are many very competent and highly skilled ones available and we never seem to go after them. No, instead we put up with the ones we have who are either too old or not good enough to be the General of our midfield and direct our troops accordingly. But then again, perhaps we do have the player who can fit in there and be the man. Rodrigo Possebon looks to have the maturity, composure and the confidence to be another Scholes and he is capable and willing to score goals and make well timed attacking runs at the opposition. Yet Fergie continues with Scholes and Anderson. Sorry folks, but they no longer are the answer. Scholes is over the Hill. He still is a very tidy player but his offensive game is gone and his lack of quickness and pace has turned into a liability. Anderson may yet improve but I have serious doubts. Not enough improvement in his offensive game from the time he first played to now for my liking.
So other than Possebon, who do we go after? I am going to drop a name that for me is one of the best attacking midfielders and play makers in European football right now and he is only 19. I mentioned this player’s name last year when he was playing the Bundesliga 2 last season. Marko Marin of Monchengladbach and Germany. The lad is simply gifted and incredible. He can play winger, OMF or AMF and has the creativity, pace, vision and finishing skill to be dynamic. He’s everything Luka Modric was billed to be but isn’t. He is the cloning of Tomas Hassler and Olaf Thon who for my money were great German attacking midfielders with lack of size. I absolutely love this kid and really, I am surprised he is still with Monchengladbach. Watch that team if you get the chance. They are a great young team and this player is lightning in a small little bottle. There is something almost Maradona like about him. He and Toni Kroos are the future of German football for sure. He is only 19 and I think he could be had for the right money. But United is asleep at the wheel when it comes to Germans. If Fergie was going to go for a German he would go for the rumored Bastien Schweinsteiger. I like Schweiny but he is so wrong for our team. He is too slow and gets phased out of a game very easily. He has lapses in concentration and work ethic. When he is on he is great but too often, he is asleep at the wheel. Yet Fergie apparently likes him. Go figure! I am a huge Bayern supporter and I watch and record every one of their games like I do United’s. Therefore, I feel I have a pretty good grasp of their players and Schweiny has always been a player that frustrates me because he can be world class one game and Coca Cola league the next. Anyway, what do many of you think about our central midfield problem? One thing I will say before ending this long rant (sorry) is that we do play quite often with two DMF’s and no attacking midfielder at all. That is because we play with two advanced wingers and our offensive setup constitutes that they bring the ball up, not the attacking midfielder. That’s nice but it is also very one dimensional and an excuse. We play like that because we have Ronaldo and because Scholes can no longer play that advanced role. Also, Anderson and Carrick cannot play it either. I honestly believe we would play the very creative and successful diamond formation 4-1-2-1-2 if we had a creative AMF. One can dream can’t he not? Right now United are in the middle of a power struggle. The new kids on the block vs the Old Boys Network. It’s time for Neville, Giggs and Scholes to call it a day and free up these younger lads to express themselves. They would also free up enough money from their wages to help liquid cash poor United to go out and find that young and potentially lethal attacking midfielder. CHEERS!
September 14th, 2008 at 17:07
@Craig Mc: we really have looked out of sorts, haven’t we? I reckon we should adopt our usual 4-4-2. Rooney, Berba and tevez should rotate up front; Wingers should be Park, Nani, Ronaldo and Giggs with fletch/hargreaves/gibson/anderson filling in when needed; our central mid should be scholes/ando/possebon/gibson and fletch/hargreaves/carrick playing a more defensive role. Defence shuld be the same, with the twins and Evans gettin more of a look in.
Since pre-season, we’ve not played a solid formation, keep on mixing and matchin… it’s time the boss settles on a formation and let the team train with it. Like I said earlier, we are THE team to beat, and if we keep showing up at games planning to freestyle our game, we will pay for it.
On some of the players, they need to either step up or be benched, simple as. Anderson, on his recent performances does not deserve a place ahead of Fletch and Possebon. Hargo and carrick should get back to fitness before being included and if they are not ready, play them in reserves till they are, we have sufficient back-up. If a player underperforms consistently, drop him, we have enough players competing for a spot.
I don’t know if Fergie is gettin soft, the team is lackin somethin and I don’t know what it is, but I hope fergie and the backroom staff can correct it soon, cuz if we loose to chelsea, we will be way behind the top three…
September 14th, 2008 at 17:12
Grognard i do believe that we need another midfielder but disagree that it is an attcking one we need. I believe we need a proper defensive midfielder who will boss the game just like mascherano did for them yesterday. We have hargreaves but he is rarely fit and that leaves us without a general to hold the fort like essien is for chelsea, mascherano for the scousers, gattuso is for milan. Don’t you feel concerned about this?
I agree with you that we need a winger. I prioritised this even above getting a striker. I just feel we need another winger who is different and is a general right sided player. A speed demon like walcott would be ideal.
September 14th, 2008 at 17:36
@Matthew: I think Carrick showed many times last year that he was more than capable of playing that role and then lifting some nice long passes to start counters. And yes Hargo has been injured but he is far better than Mascherano when he is healthy. Health is the problem there, not age. We are too long in the tooth in certain midfield positions and those need to be addressed. Last year we conceded only 22 goals as a team without a healthy Hargreaves and with no Mascherano. That is not our biggest need. Striker was our biggest need but we also need more play making and scoring from our midfielders. Teams do not fear our midfielders and thus do not put a great emphasis in defending them. This frees them to put more attention towards our forwards and Ronaldo. A proper attacking midfielder would make them think twice and force them to concentrate on more defensive duties. It would be a win win situation. And we are in agreement over the need for a winger. Walcott is nice but there are better ones out there, believe me. And a lot cheaper. Unfortunately United is too cheap for their own good. I love Berbatov but I still would have preferred spending 10 million less and buying Huntelaar and then buying a winger like Sanchez for 10 to 12 million. They have thrown their whole transfer kitty on to one player and that is asking for trouble if he gets hurt or if he doesn’t deliver in spades. Huntelaar would have been cheaper, a better scorer and we could have kept Campbell for depth and still had money to play with. Still, I hope the best for the team and for Berba. I love to watch that guy play.
September 14th, 2008 at 17:38
@Grognard: Mate, I agree with two points you made there, we need a young, promising, but ready to play winger and it’s the old boys vs the new boys.
We have promising AMF’s in our club; Anderson, Possebon, Cleverley. These boys just need the opportunity to shine, because scholes is more of a DMF now. Anderson is dissapointing and should be given a sit-down talk, then given the opportunity to show his talent. But he can’t do that, unless we employ the services of a DMF; hargo, fletch and carrick can do this. We also have Possebon who looks good, and should get his chance.
The winger situation has been worrying me since pre-season; I beleive we talked about it. How, United of all teams have not possessed genuine width in any of our games this season is beyond me. That is the crux of our attacking play, and with Giggs gettin slow, Nani should feature more prominently, with Park and Ronnie. We should also be looking for a young replacement for Giggs in our wing quartet when he retires. Like Matthew said, a speed demon will be preferrable, as that is what the premiership is about, pace.
If the midfield and offence is sorted out, our back four can concentrate on defence and we will go back to last season’s stinginess in front of goal. Brown cannot consistently create width and defend flawlessly at the same time, neither can Evra. VDS looks to be relaxed, knowing this is his last season and he is guaranteed a spot in the squad, maybe fergie should threaten him a bit with regular interchanging of him and Kusczy or Foster.
As for giggs, scholes and neville, it is obvious this lads are gettin old and Fergie should use them sparingly like he has begun with Giggs, just bring ‘em on later in the game to bring composure and experience when we are in front or looking for a goal.
September 14th, 2008 at 17:45
@Matthew: One more thing Matthew. I am reading reports that United are considering fighting it out with Arsenal for Miguel Veloso again. So Fergie may be concerned about Hargo’s long term status with the team. If so, Veloso would cost 15 million or more for sure and that again may be out of their range. Who really knows? Still, he would be the defensive midfielder you would want. I for one would love Marin but that is a pipe dream I’m sure. In the end Marin will be yet another acquisition by the mighty Bayern. Even if they don’t need him.
September 14th, 2008 at 17:53
@Gabriel: Can’t really disagree with much of what you are saying. I do think that we need to see what Foster is all about and that EVDS now thinks he is invincible because of his penalty stopping heroics. He needs to start looking over his shoulder. A little pressure will help him focus and concentrate more. Anderson does need to be sat down and made to rethink his approach. Problem with him is the same problem with Rooney. From day one he has been played out of his position and comfort zone. He is an offensive player playing a deeper defensive midfield role and that just does not work for him. Scholes and Giggs greatest influence should be in the dressing room and on the training pitch. Stop wasting our young talent and time by starting and playing these old boys too much. Fine, they are legends and we all love them but sometimes you have to say enough and thanks and goodbye. Nani needs to be shown the confidence and belief from the manager that he is the the one. Play him. Better yet, start him. And get on his ass if he doesn’t play up to his skill set. Possebon needs to be given a chance now. Why not, he has what it takes and he is composed and mature for his age. Break him in the way Fergie broke in Ronaldo in his first year. Give the boy a chance.
September 14th, 2008 at 18:13
Obviously different matches throw up different problems but United doesn’t have a all-in-one type midfielder:
Carrick is a silker passer but can’t run and can’t tackle, Scholes idem+, Park is one giant lung but isn’t exactly imposing. Anderson can pass, can tackle, and can get physical (not bad).
Possebon can pass, tackle?, has he got stamina?, he has a laser guided rocket shot, Fletcher can do a bit of everything but nothing extremely well.
Hargreaves is never fully fit but he’s the most complete in his array.
A younger version Ballack would be good: tall powerful, free kicks, headers, aggressive, great passer, good stamina
We’re gonna have to do a transplant and give Scholes Park’s lungs and legs
September 14th, 2008 at 18:16
@Grognard: Mate, the funny thing is that we have all the ideal players for every position in our squad, yet fergie continously plays them out of position, take a look at this:
GK: VDS, Kuczy, Foster
CB: Rio, Vida, Evans
RB: Brown, Rafael, Neville
LB: Evra, Fabio, O’Shea
DMF: Hargo, Fletch
CMF: Scholes, Carrick, Gibson
AMF: Ando, Possebon
SMF/WF: Ronaldo, Nani, Park, Giggs
SS: Rooney, Tevez
CF: Berba, Manucho
We are playing at home this wednesday, why not play a solid 4-1-3-1-1 and attack.
VDS
Brown-Rio-Evans-Evra
—–Hargreaves—–
Park—-Ando—-Nani
——-Rooney——-
——-Tevez——–
Hargo and fletch are DMF’s and can be swapped if hargo isn’t 100%. Ando, Possebon can play as AMF’s and if we need to go defensive, bring on scholes as a CMF. I put on Evans, because Vidic is suspended for our nxt two PL games and it will be good for him to form some chemistry with ferdinand before we face chelsea away from home. Rooney should always play SS and stay away from CF, berba and tevez can play both so should rotate with him and also with each other for the CF position.
That, i reckon is a solid formation, and more importantly, a young and energetic one. Fergie should give these boys a chance to shine in their preferred positions and stop trying to fit square pegs in round holes. What do you think?
September 14th, 2008 at 18:17
Grognard, diamond wouldn’t work so long as we had Ronaldo. But if Ronaldo leaves I agree it is the way forward because other than Ronaldo and the full backs we do not have any good wide players.
Personally I do not rate Anderson either. Sure he produced some good performances against Arsenal, Liverpool last season. But Fletcher can do that too and he is not labelled the next Ronaldinho. For Brazil he looks ordinary.
Nani at least shows glimpses of what he can do: his crossing, his goalscoring, his dribbling, his pace, his assists.
Personally I rather liked the way Capello played against Croatia. 4-4-2 with plenty of width, one attacking central midfielder and one defensive midfielder.
Carrick or Hargreaves can both do a job in defensive midfield. But Scholes hasn’t looked like an attacking midfielder in ages and Anderson to me seems more of a defensive midfielder than an attacking midfielder.
September 14th, 2008 at 18:19
Grognard, i think 15mil for veloso is too much and if we really are looking for a defenisve midfielder for that money i would much rather prefer wilson palacios who is a player i think has massive potential. Also who is this Marin player. German league player is he.
On another note what are your opinions of jonny evans, possebon and foster. I personally think that they should be getting a number of appearnces this season. I would much rather take a risk and start evans at centre back at chelsea than play oshea who only ever performs when playing as a left back. Possebon to me just oozes class and foster looks fantastic as well. Along with the da silvas and danny wellbeck i think we have some great players coming through.
September 14th, 2008 at 18:26
Gabriel, thank God someone who agrees with me and think that evans should be given a chance. He is a regular for nothern ireland and always impresses. Yet fergie will go for experience and play a player that never plays well at centre back and looks like an accident waiting to happen and that player is john oshea. Forget experience, play players on the basis of their talent.
September 14th, 2008 at 18:27
@Grognard: You know that in my opinion the problem with Nani is that he is trying to become a Ronaldo! However he CANNOT become a Ronaldo! He cannot dribble at the speed of Ronaldo! He cannot cut inside like Ronaldo! However he can score Crackers and is the best crosser we have got by FAR! Hmmmmm! So who does that remind me of? Oh wait I forget that our Right Wingers who were No. 7 were of two kinds! First there were the dribblers and the ones who scored like hell! The were blessed by fast feet!
And then there was another kind of No.7! Yes he was blond! He scored from the halfway line! His CROSSES made me think that God really had blessed him with his right foot! Remember his curling free kicks?
Oh yeah that was DAVID BECKHAM!
Thats the problem with Nani! He is trying to copy Ronaldo whereas with his areas of strength he should copy DB!
Oh and whatever happens to unlock the defence of the opposition we seriously need the CARRICKSTER!
September 14th, 2008 at 18:52
@Matthew: mate, like the grogster said, it’s the old boys vs the new boys at United at the mo, and Fergie is backin the old skool. If I see O’Shea in CB when we play chelsea, i’ll send my first ever hate mail to fergie. Evans played successfully for a full premiership season with Sunderland and has a wealth of international experience with Northern Ireland, on that alone – nevermind his obvious ferdinand-esque talents – he deserves to start more than O’Shea.
We have a very very strong squad of players, yet the strength is always diminished when they play out of position. Look at Rooney, what the hell is Fergie doin playing him out wide? Capello showed us how and where to play Rooney – as a SS, behind a CF, where he was playing when he first came to United – we have a CF now, yet Fergie continues to blunt his talent and confidence with his positioning out wide, hopefully, he doesn’t become another Alan Smith.
Midfield is the same thing, Fletch is a better DMF than he is a SMF/WF, why not utilise him there and leave the wing play to Park, Nani and Giggs? Anderson was brought up playing as an AMF, yet we have succeeded in making him into a CMF; we already have three of those in scholes, carrick and Gibson, let Anderson play as an AMF with a DMF like hargo, fletch or even carrick behind him.
We have Nani and park who have pace, can cross the ball and can beat players, why not use them instead of others who have maybe one or none of those vital skills for a wide player?
Fergie fell in love with this unstructured formation after we trashed Roma 7-1 at trafford two years ago, but times are changing, teams are stronger, we are more reverred, we need to play our fittest, most suited and hungriest players and also find a balance in our play that is most effective and that is a 4-4-1-1 or 4-1-3-1-1.
September 14th, 2008 at 19:13
i think fergie was caught with his pants down trying to be smart. i HONESTLY think he was trying to be too smart in this instance.
every move he made was to show off his strength but a building isnt built on steel alone. there is glass, bricks and some concrete. point being is that in a football team, u dont play all your strikers from the get go, all your CMs from the get go and then think u can win.
i really am not fazed by the win, i am with those who are pissed off at how we were rolled over by a average team! all that quality and all that talent and fergie had to use them wrongly.
i dont know if u noticed this but ROONEY was kept on the wing the entire time! when giggs first on the wings, then moved in for nani to be on the wings. craigmc nailed it when he said rooney thrives on being in the thick of things. we have a spectacular central midfield. only if they are played properly. i dont think we need to bring in anyone… just use them correctly
use rooney in the middle if he wants to accomodate all three. not stick him on the side. arrrgh im so frustrated!!!!! i wanna go and smak fergie right about now… but i think he might just smack me back with his medals from all over the years and i wont have anything to say in defence.
Rooney- Better than Ronaldo, if you use him in the middle behind a Main striker.
September 14th, 2008 at 19:43
VDS
Brown Rio Vidic Evra
Hargo Carrick (Fletcher Anderson Possebon)
Ronaldo Rooney Tevez (Nani Park)
Berbatov
September 14th, 2008 at 20:25
Finally!
I’m glad that many of you guys have come around on Rodrigo Possebon and see how he can be useful to the current first team- ideally I can see him as a more technically gifted and goal scoring Carrick. I’m also glad that Fletch is also mentioned as a DM/CM rather than his rather ineffective RM position.
John Freakin’ Oshea, you asked if Possebon > Anderson, and on current form this is definiltely true, and I’m sure Fletcher would have fared better at CM.
Also you guys remmember that Ando was bought as an AM/LM but it think its very sad that he has ever played in those positions for us. His commitment and physical play seemed to have blinded us to the fact that perhaps he is slowly losing the offensivve skills sets he was known for before he came to United.
Oh and another note, the guys at Unitedyouth.wordpress regularly cite Matty James as their man of the match. I don’t kno how old is he, but he seems the tough type CM, and is also a regular scorer (mre than Cleverlay fo example). Perhaps even he could be considered for a run in…
September 14th, 2008 at 20:54
@Gabriel: With the present setup and Fergie’s stubbornness to continually play Giggs and Scholes I feel we are headed for a major thud this season. I’m saying we are fighting it out with Arsenal and Liverpool for 2nd and I’m guessing we’ll finish 3rd or 4th. Age in key areas is our Achilles heel and a style of play that is far to dependent on player’s contributions, Ronaldo’s. Sorry but I don’t rate Anderson as a competent AMF and Park wouldn’t even make my bench. Perhaps I’m harsh but I demand more skill from players that play the AMF or wing positions. Unlike millions of Brits, my mentality developed over the countries history through the Industrial Revolution does not put as much weight or emphasis on running hard and working your socks off. I prefer skill and finesse and turning on the jets when necessary. Park, Rooney, Anderson are all Little Engines that Could. Who cares? I want smooth engines that purr. That is why I like Possebon and why I want class and skill in those positions rather than energy and effort. At the end of it all the player has to shoot or pass and if all that effort goes to waste because he cannot do either of those things, then who cares about the effort? With what we have right now, my ideal lineup is as so;
EVDS
DA SILVA R. – RIO – VIDIC – EVRA
HARGREAVES
RONALDO – CARRICK or POSSEBON – NANI
ROONEY or TEVEZ
BERBATOV
subs;
BROWN
FLETCHER
PARK
PIG/FOSTER
ANDERSON
The battle is between Possebon and Carick and Rooney and Tevez for who starts and who players 6 and 7 are on the bench. As for Giggs, Scholes and Neville I will quote from the super bitch Sarah Palin and say “thanks but no thanks”. Those players are a highway to nowhere and we need young fresh blood to be integrated and worked. I am fine with finishing 3rd or 4th and bleeding players like Da Silva and Possebon over finishing 3rd or 4th with the Old Guard slowing there progress as well as the team’s. It’s almost like Fergie only cares about this team until he retires and he’s not concerned what his heir inherits. This team needs to go with more youth. Certain players have been legends and great servants need to be put out to pasture even if on occasion they play like their old selves. It’s what’s best for this team’s future. If Nani, Anderson, Possebon and the twins are held back for too long, songs of Spain are going to start playing in their heads. Even Ronaldo got a fairer and faster shot than any of them. Man Fergie was so patient with Ronaldo and his selfish errors early in his career. So patient and confident that he shipped off RVN. Why won’t he give Nani, Anderson and others the same long chance now?
September 14th, 2008 at 21:02
@colver: Notice how Capello utilized Rooney playing behind Heskey. It worked like a charm. And Berbatov is a thousand times the player Heskey is with the same ability of holding up the ball and being a target man.
I do believe diamond would work fabulously but it would mean that Ronaldo would have to play more like a winger again. I think his greed for scoring goals and not setting players up anymore would make things difficult and dreams of Real Madrid would start to haunt him in his sleep.
But all selfishness aside, diamond is the best formation for a team with width and a tremendous attacking midfielder. Man I need to see more of Possebon. I could be wrong but I see younger Scholes with elements of Fabregas in that boy and I think he may be a real diamond find for us. And although I have no real problem with Brown, I would like to see Rafael Da Silva play more. He is a fantastic talent but yes, he does need more seasoning and a better understanding of his defensive duties. But then again based on yesterday, so does Wes Brown.
September 14th, 2008 at 21:16
@Matthew: I agree that Veloso is overpriced and I personally don’t even think we need him. As for Marin. He is 19 and a revelation in German football. He is Serbian born but has German papers and is now a regular selection for the German National Team as well as the main man at Gladbach. Short in height, he is very fast has the ability to excel as a winger or attacking midfielder and has tremendous passing ability, crossing skills, set piece skill and is a good finisher. He is also capable of playing left or right as he is good with both feet. He has tremendous vision and creativity and has a great burst of speed from a static position. He has so much flair and he really terrifies opponents. Take it from me, he is the future of German football and he will be amongst the top 5 players in the world by the time he is 23. I seriously doubt if he stays with Gladbach after this season. Yet German players do possess a strong loyalty for their clubs, his potential needs to be tapped by playing for a big side. He has everything Fabregas has and more in my opinion. Last year I was going on about Toni Kroos of Bayern, another great German talent. He too will be great but he has not got the pace or the vision that Marin has. Marin is 19 and already has 4 caps for the German side. This kid will be the engine room for their World Cup team in two years time, mark my words. Ballack’s days are numbered.
As for Possebon, read some of my other long comments today. They are full of praise for that boy. Yes the lad oozes class. Evans I am not sure about because frankly, I have not seen enough of him to get a proper perspective. How much you want a bet Fergie doesn’t have the guts to start him against Chelsea next week with Vidic out? He’ll stick old O’Shea as usual. Foster is an enigma. I need to see the boy play some games. My God he has to have healed from his leg injury by now. What bothers me is that if he is as good as some think, than why is he behind Pig in the depth chart? Perhaps he isn’t as good as they thought or he has regressed since his injury. I would love to see United go after Boruc or Neuer. Two fantastic and young keepers. But Fergie never listens to me anymore. Not since I stopped buying the drinks.
September 14th, 2008 at 21:21
Today I am a man! I had my konfirmation(norwegian word), kind of a bar mizvah for christian protestants. Its been a long day but I feel very good and grown up. About the pool game, dont talk to me about it!
September 14th, 2008 at 21:24
@Red Diablo: I agree with you to a point about Nani. Yes he does try to hard to be Ronaldo but he isn’t. Nobody is. He is a good crosser but lets face it, other than Fletcher, nobody ever spends enough time in the box to benefit from crosses on this team. Now with Berbatov that will change. No the problem I see with Nani is attitude and lack of desire. For us he just strolls and hardly ever runs with the ball and tries to be Ronaldo=like. Far to often he just quits. I see him constantly hanging his head and looking disinterested or upset. His temper gets the best of him and I really think he has grown frustrated by the way he is used, or should I say misused. I think he had dreams of coming here and playing the left side to Ronaldo’s right. Sure he knew Giggs would get some action but then even when Giggs was not playing, Fergie would choose Park or Fletcher over him and move Ronaldo to the left side. The boy only gets boosts of confidence by being allowed to express himself naturally with Portugal. He is an expert at passing and creating in an almost static position yet you see very little of that with United. His shooting is precise and accurate for his country but he continually kicks rugby style field goals for us while his head is down. I don’t know what to make of him except I don’t see him getting a fair chance to grow and express himself and I see his frustration building to the point where he will be off for Spain before Ronaldo. And wouldn’t that be a kick in the head.
September 14th, 2008 at 21:27
@Gabriel: I think Fergie saw Evans rating in the FIFA 08 in the mid 60’s and sees O’Shea in the high 70’s and makes his decisions from there. Evans needs to be given a chance. What happened to experimenting and taking chances with young players. This is why Eagles and others like him failed with us. Unless they are from a foreign non English speaking country, they never get a fair chance to break in with the side.
September 14th, 2008 at 21:28
@Grognard: Mate, that is exactly what I was thinking… we depend too much on individual player contributions because we have an unstructured and unbalanced formation which only allows one or two players to perform to their maximum. Most other players don’t have the chance to contribute as much because they are usually played out of position. I like ur ideal line-up, and will place Rooney ahead of Tevez – Rooney is a much better SS.
The AMF position is tricky, Anderson or Possebon? Anderson, if truth be told, has been playing CMF since he arrived at United. This is not his preferred position and if he continues to do so in this his developmental years, he will loose those abilities which made him a brilliant AMF prospect. I reckon with a DMF behind him, he should do alrite. Possebon will have his chance, I can’t see him not getting it.
The DMF position depends on if Hargreaves decides to be fit. He would be first choice, then Carrick/Fletch. Carrick can fill out as any of the three, AMF/CMF/DMF and he will be a very important midfielder for us this season. Fletcher can also play CMF/DMF, so will be vital also. Scholes should play as a CMF when we want composure or want to retain possession.
In regards to our upcoming game against Villareal, I recommend we take the game to them and attack, with a 4-1-3-1-1 formation:
——————-VDS———————-
Brown——Rio——Evans——-Evra
—————-Hargreaves—————-
Park————-Ando————–Nani
—————–Tevez———————–
——————–Berbatov—————-
Subs: Kusczy, Vida, O’Shea, Fletch, Scholes, Giggs, Rooney
The back four are the same, except for the inclusion of Evans which I think will be good, so he can establish some chemistry with Ferdinand before we play Chelsea away from home (Vida’s suspended). Brown and Evra will not solely have to provide width, but should still bombard up and down the wings like last season. Hargreaves position is very important as he is the anchor; he covers the space in front of Rio and Evans for when the fullbacks bomb forward. If he is not 100% fit, then Fletch can play there. He also allows Anderson to move forward and attack with freedom. Anderson’s role here is as an AMF, not a CMF, he should always be attacking and playmaking, forget about defensive duties, that is what Hargreaves is there for. This is the reason I chose him ahead of scholes, as scholes has become too defensive, with a lot of horizontal passes and not enough forward ones. He can come on as a CMF later on if we need to go on the defensive and require composure. Anderson’s performance has not been the best so far, but I reckon a stern talking to and his natural role of AMF will do him wonders.
Nani and Park will provide the much needed width we require, with Evra and Brown providing support. Giggs can come on later for either one of them if they tire, as they will be needed against chelsea in a couple of days. Now for SS, I would like Tevez to play there instead of Rooney, solely because Rooney has played two consecutive games in a week and the last one he was utilised as a wide man, so needs some rest ahead of chelsea. Rooney is the better SS but he should come on later for Berba, so both can be fresh for chelsea, as they will be my preferred pairing in that game. Tevez will then move to CF and Rooney occupy SS – his preferred role. Berba will help push the opposition defence line backward, leaving Tevez/Rooney and Anderson the chance to create opportunities for themselves and everyone around them. What do you reckon?
September 14th, 2008 at 21:32
OK I think everyone is getting carried away with this youth thing. Possebon isnt ready at all and I’d prefer Scholes anyday . Reserves don’t mean shit in the big leagues. Ask Eagles, Martins and countless others.
@Grognard:what do you think about Fabio and Rafael as the young wingers? They have the skill set and are too much of a liability at full back
September 14th, 2008 at 21:33
@Wink: We lost that game yesterday because we had no graft or grit in midfield. They out physicaled us at every turn. Think about it, we were out muscled by Liverpool. Unacceptable. That is why Vidic got the boot. Because he is the one player on our side that shows physical muscle and sends a message to opponents when they rough us up. God Bless him for that. At least he showed heart and refused to be bullied around. Scholes and Anderson were tippy toeing around like they were walking on glass. Even Rooney contained his famous temper and never went on the warpath on anyone. We were an embarrassment.
September 14th, 2008 at 21:36
@RedDevilEddy: Congratulations there mate. That’s a religious form of having your cherry popped I guess. All the best to you.
September 14th, 2008 at 21:47
@Gabriel: I seriously doubt very much if we see Evans. I don’t think Fergie has the guts for that kind of move against Chelsea. O’Shea perhaps but I will go out on a line and predict that the back four will be Hargreaves, Brown, Rio, Evra. We know Hargo can play RB and I think Fergie feels confident with Brown in the CB spot. This selection over placing O’Shea in the CB gives us more width and mobility and more offensive flexibility. Hargo and Evra are still able to move up and overlap. Also, it’s time to bring in Nani on one side and introduce this great prospect who has been sitting a while called Ronaldo.
That should give us the width and linkage we need with our fullbacks. Who players the two central midfield roles will be vital. Who can nullify Lampard and possibly Ballack? Thank God Essien is not out there but I think we will be introduced the the dreaded Drogba over the useless and timid Anelka. I also think Scolari will start the irritating and dirty Obi Mikel to cheap shot our players in the middle of the park. Hopefully Carrick will be fit. Also, I’d like to see Rooney start just behind Berbatov to see how he plays the same position he did with England last week. Bring Tevez in around 65 minutes. This is a must win game. We need to send a message to Chelsea and we need to break that undefeated run at the Bridge. Somehow I have lost my faith in Fergie’s tactical ability to put out the proper eleven and use the proper tactics. Hopefully he can once again prove me wrong.
September 14th, 2008 at 21:52
@Liam: I thought you didn’t care about the young players and then you start asking about the twins??????
I think they are great but I am not sure they are good enough to be wingers. It’s a totally different kettle of fish when you are a wingback or a fullback and you make great runs and dribbles, but wing play is different. Right now I would experiment with Fabio in that role because he has no chance with Evra as our first team LB. We also need someone to make a statement at left wing. Rafael I believe might even be our starting RB next year. I see no reason to mess with him. Just let him gather experience and work on his defensive play. Lets put it this way, I have no problem playing these two kids as they need to build confidence. The skills are all there. The reserves will only give you so much experience. We need to bleed them both at some point this season.
September 14th, 2008 at 22:13
@Grognard: I’ve said it before, If fergie plays o’shea anywhere in the team against chelsea, i will personally send him my first ever fan hate mail
!! What’s the point in keeping Evans from playing consistent 1st-team premiership football at Sunderland, if he can’t fill in here when we need him? 
I reckon he should play in the villareal match and our next two PL matches.
As for our midfield, hargo should start in DMF against Villareal and Chelsea, with fletch on standby, incase of injury. Ando, Scholes, Possebon and Carrick should fight it out for the AMF/CMF position against chelsea. If Ronaldo is 100% fit, then play him instead of Park, but if not, should have little cameo’s until he is at a 100%; no need to get him injured again like Carrick got yesterday.
If we choose a certain formation, train with it, play with it against villareal, then use it against chelsea, we will have a better chance. We have been too unbalanced and incoherent so far this season, we should choose a style or two and stick with it. Teams are stronger and more determined to beat us now we are double champions and we cannot continue to afford showing up against these teams with the intention of freestyling it.
September 14th, 2008 at 22:41
@Gabriel: You can’t expect the same formation week in and week out. Teams dictate what formation we play so playing with a specific formation against Villarreal does not mean that same formation should be utilized against Chelsea who have a completely different team makeup and set. The important thing is not formation, it’s player selection. I agree totally on Evans and O’Shea but I for one feel more secure with Brown at CB and Hargo at RB. If Carrick is healthy enough play him in DMF, if not, play Scholes. The most important thing in that game is to play both Ronaldo and Nani and give Rooney a chance to play the true second striker role just behind Berbatov. It’s time to see if he can do with Berba what he was able to do with Heskey. Especially with Terry out of the lineup. Alex is decent but he may have some communication problems playing next to Carvalho. We need to test them there big time. Also, EVDS needs to step up and play well as well as communicate with his defenders better. Too many crosses have cause far too much problems early on this season. That’s his poor judgment and poor communicating. The Brown own goal was EVDS not communicating well enough.
September 14th, 2008 at 22:42
Gabriel, completely agree with everything you say in comment 220.
September 14th, 2008 at 22:58
@Grognard: Thank you.
September 14th, 2008 at 23:06
@Grognard: I didn’t mean we shuld stick with a certain formation for the whole season, but adopt one or two and get familiar and competent with them instead of the incoherent displays we have been showing so far. Last season, we had two, 4-4-2 in the prem and a fluid 4-5-1 in europe and tough games. So far this season, we have looked out of it due to the players not knowing what their roles are or them playing out of position. That is where player selection comes in, and Fergie needs to start getting it right again.
I appreciate your preference for Brown at CB and hargo at RB, but IMO Evans is pretty much ready for the step-up. I mean, he played a full premiership last year at Sunderland and was impressive, plus his pre-season and international showings have been above average, so why not? what’s the point in having him in the squad?
I wouldn’t rush Ronaldo back though for two reasons; first, so he can be 100% before he gets on the pitch so as to avoid injuries and also to hit the ground running. Second, the team needs to win at least two games comfortably before he returns, not only to prove they can succeed without him, but for their individual confidence and non-reliance on ronnie. I mean, imagine what the press will print if we just happen to start winning when Ronnie returns, even if he didn’t solely contribute to it?
On the aspect of wingers, which young wing prospect do you suggest we get in january to replace Giggs in our wing quartet? i reckon we need a speedy player, who can beat players and playmake, like walcott, but maybe a bit taller. what do you reckon?
September 14th, 2008 at 23:38
Grog, if Little Man Nani moves to Spain, I will be kicking somebody in the head, because it will be such a big feckin mistake. Nani has been in Form for Portugal, and to be honest, watching the last 3 games for Portugal, Nani was their best forward. Every feckin where, making things happen. He scored in each game too. So what does Fergie do?. Sticks him in the stiffs, splintering his arse on the bench – feckin diabolical. I will never agree, that Nani goes nowhere for us. FFS he had the 2nd most assists, 1 less than Rooney, and he didn’t start as many games. Portugal would never have been OUT of Europe if Scolari had started with Nani. Nani did more in the last 20 minutes coming on as sub, than the rest of the forwards did all game. His passes into the box were second to none, and if the Portuguese had a decent striker during the game, and Ronnie hadn’t gone missing, a few goals would have been scored from Nani crosses. As for the nonsense about him trying to be a 2nd Ronaldo, I thought some of you people were intelligent about your football
. Nani has just come out and said to everyone, DO NOT expect me to be like Ronaldo, or to play like he does. He said that he is an entirely different kind of player. When does Ronnie get decent balls into the box from right out on the wings, or from corners?. Answer, he doesn’t. Ronnie is a goal hungry shark, and he wants to be in the box to gobble up the balls coming in, to add to his goal tally. Whereas Nani is happy to stay and float balls in. For Portugal, he was given opportunity to try things, a bit of a free-er role, and he was bloody good. Grog you keep saying mate, that Nani is older than Ronnie was, and so should be further on than Ronnie was when he came at 18. Yet, Nani was playing in the Portuguese league, and he obviously stood out, or Fergie would not have been in for him. Ronnie was raw when he came to us, and took 2 seasons to get improvement. Nani has played his part, with fewer games, and often only as sub. I believe a player needs to play consistently in the team, to get to develop in the prem. He gets upset as you say Grog, because he does CARE, and hates it when he tries things and they don’t come off for him. That lad has admitted that he wants to be one of the best players in the world, or up their with the best. He acknowledges that he will have to work hard apart from normal training on his skills etc, and he is prepared to work his bollocks off. CQ has faith in him, played him in all 3 games for Portugal, and he responded giving a good account of himself. I love the lad, and I will support him wherever he goes, be it here or Spain. In between United games, I will try and watch spanish league games if Nani moves to a team out there. I pray he does well, and shuts you all up. Viva Little Man Nani.
September 14th, 2008 at 23:45
New post up, i.e, the Liverpool match report. (Bit late, I admit) but there you go…
September 14th, 2008 at 23:49
@Craig Mc: Yes, but if you compare the FA with the Ivory Coast board then I think you’ll see my point. The European nation FA’s a loaded, but for other national boards thats the only way they make money. One cannot even begin to compare the amount of money circulating in the Premier League with that of international football.
Even the Brazilian and Argentinian FA’s aren’t that rich. Their economies are badly hit especially the Argentinian ones. And don’t get me started on the African FA’s. We are spoiled because we concentrate on UEFA and the English FA.
If someone like Essien gets injured for six months while playing for Ghana, and if Chelsea demand that they pay his wages for the time he’s out injured — it’s all fair — but do you realise that it could potentially bankrupt the Ghanaian FA. We tend to see international football through the eyes of Europe and in a way it’s right. But despite my apathy for Int’l football, and hateful figures that run FIFA, I feel for the lesser countries for whom international football still holds a semblance of pride because their local leagues are not economically viable to be supported.
If you are looking for the one thing that still has some level of soul, it is country vs country football (even though for me personally I am not too keen on it).
September 15th, 2008 at 0:26
@Grognard: I agree, i was surprised when i checked the line-up and he wasn’t even on the subs bench?
@Gabriel: You were probably kidding, but seriously, does Fergie or United have an e-mail address that maybe Fergie or any of thee United coaches read?
@Grognard: Big fan of the Da Silva twins, but i think Fergie should convert them to wingers or just limit them to defending alone, I’ve seen some of the youth games they’ve played, and i must admit, their attacking attributes are great, but their defending is lacking, in two games, now they’ve been responsible for conceding a goal, all because of their will to press forward. They’re just too attack minded to be relied upon solely in defence, maybe as they grow older, they’ll find a balance between the two like Evra, but right now, I’d be a little worried if they were in defence.
@Grognard: If you haven’t watched Evans, then you should, he’s a VERY class player, emphasis on class, he’s been the MOTM for N.Ireland twice in two matches, he was impressive when he partnered with Vidic in the pre- season too, i really hope Fergie gives him a chance next week, and also since Scholes is out for Wednesday, I hope Possebon gets a game too.
I was really looking forward to this season after the pre-season matches because of the young and up-coming players we have and i was even happier when Fergie confirmed the old guards will only play a minor role and will be phased out slowly, but that is yet to happen, and i hope the Liverpool match opens his eyes, we still need Scholes and Giggs, but not as starters anymore.
@Craig Mc: I’m not disagreeing with you on Nani, but using his Portugal games as an example isn’t very convincing. I don’t know if you watched the games, but Nani was responsible for a goal in their last match. Besides the goals, his performance hasn’t been very convincing.
September 15th, 2008 at 0:54
RD, I did watch the Portugal games as I said in my post, and I don’t agree with your version of events – sorry Bro
. Nani did good. Giggsy cost us a goal at L’pool, but Fergie put him in there in front of Nani, so Fergie got what he played for.
September 15th, 2008 at 0:59
@Gabriel: In any other game I would have no problem with Evans at CB but not Chelsea. We need the experience at the back for sure.
Also, we need Ronaldo and we cannot afford to lose to Chelsea. That would be a six point swing. 3 we lose and 3 they gain. Ronaldo is of no use to us if we are out of the running so early on. Perhaps that is a bit melodramatic but Chelsea are excellent front runners. We cannot afford to get any farther than 6 points behind them. They probably won’t lose more than 3 or 4 games all year.
And the winger I want is Alexis Sanchez or Marko Marin who can also play in the middle.
September 15th, 2008 at 1:06
@Craig Mc: Craig mate, relax. I am not down on Nani like you think I am. I think he has been poorly handled and utilized. I agree with most of the things you say but I also think that many of my points about his attitude and temperament are valid. Yet, I don’t blame him for feeling or acting the way he does. And I have never said he was older than Ronaldo. I said that at his present age he has progressed slower than Ronaldo. No doubt CQ has faith in the boy but clearly Fergie does not. Trust me, that red card last year is stuck in Fergie’s craw and he won’t let it go. I hope he gives the boy a chance to show his skills and to once again provide a lot of assists.
September 15th, 2008 at 1:52
@Grognard: I’ve seen both players’ highlights on youtube (as I have never seen them play live) and based on what I saw, Marko Marin will be the preferred player. He has more pace, can get past players, playmakes a bit more and has a wicked curve shot on him. Plus he’s german, those guys are consistent in their performances (I know, stereotyping, but it’s true). Also, he has been playing in Europe, in a faster league – similar to England’s – than Sanchez has, so that will be a plus as he might need less climatisation. Plus, Udinese already own Sanchez and he will be more expensive.
Seriously, this lad could be a walcott in the making for us, he’s the same age, a bit shorter, but taller than tevez, lennon and phillips, so he could survive in the prem. Why hasn’t no one picked up on him yet? He looks a gem…
September 15th, 2008 at 2:01
@Gabriel: His age is the reason nobody has picked up on him as well, there is a bias by many teams in England and Spain to look for players in South America and Portugal first. Also, Mongengladbach said that he is not for sale at any price for this season. They need him to compete in the Bundesliga and regain their proud status and stay up. I think he will be looked at seriously next year by many teams. Don’t be surprised if Bayern don’t beat everyone to the punch. When it comes to most German players, they usually end up having first right of refusal. Irregardless, United will never get him because Fergie hates Germans. In 22 years not one German player has played for this club. The second most successful nation in football history and they get zero respect from the Gaffer.
September 15th, 2008 at 2:21
@Grognard: Mate, i’m gonna go on the ManUtd forum and create a thread for this lad. He is the type of winger I was hoping for, precociously talented, fast, can get past players, shoot, cross.. a young ryan giggs but with the ability to play comfortably on both wings.
We shuld start a petition or sumthin, this lad cannot pass us by. Maybe i’m gettin too excited but his qualities would complement United perfectly, especially our rapid counter-attack game. BTW, the german thing seems odd, didn’t notice it until now, but at least we have one german youngster in our squad, Ron-Robert Zieler, he’s a goal-keeper – did some research for that one.
September 15th, 2008 at 9:52
@Gabriel: Good luck to you mate. You have nothing to lose. Marin is a stud and by the way, he is known more for being an attacking central midfielder. So being able to play either wing is just so sweet. United limited radar in Germany is going to force this lad to sign with Bayern or some large Spanish or Italian side. All I can do now is put him on my United team in FIFA 09 and Football Manager 09. Sad and pathetic because he is something else. Ray Hudson who does the commentary for GOL TV here in North America just raves about the boy the way he does about Riquelme. And like me he thinks Riquelme is a gift from the Gods. He thinks Marin is another potential Maradona. High praise indeed. Truthfully, I am surprised he is not on more people’s radar. But he soon will be.