Sep 13
Liverpool v Manchester United: Preview
At long last we get to some real footballing action. United travel to Anfield with a rather good record in recent times.
In pre-match trash talk, the Spanish waiter had a little dig at our club’s spending although, for some reason, it seems to escape his attention that he himself has spent about £200m since his arrival at Anfield. He has a Champions’ League medal to show for all that (with a squad predominantly inherited from Houllier).
They have everyone fit, including Gerrard and Torres. We have everyone fit barring Ronaldo. Even Mr. Crock (or Mr. New Saha) — Owen Hargreaves — is reportedly fit, barring pre-game warm-up complications.
We won last year 1-0, courtesy a set piece and went about the rest of the game defending and putting Torres into Rio’s back pocket. This year we have a pretty strong side, with added teeth in front in the form of Berbatov. I am really excited by his very presence in our squad, although I won’t be screaming doom and gloom if he flops tomorrow. And it would be good if others wouldn’t over expect from him straight away.
In formations, if he’s fit, Carrick will start alongside Scholes in midfield. The back four is settled. The rest four positions is interesting. Will he opt for a front three of Rooney, Tevez and Berbatov (which would mean Hargreaves will be our third central midfielder)? Or will he go for a straight 4-4-2 with Nani on the left and Hargreaves on the right with Rooney alongside Berbatov? Your guess is as good as mine.
So feel free to throw around crazy formations and predictions.
Prediction: 1-1. Yes, I can’t see beyond a draw, and I do hope I’m proved wrong and United win it.
Related items from Red Rants:
- Man Utd v Everton: Preview
- Porto it is then…
- Portsmouth Preview
- Some Reading Material Ahead of Grand Slam Sunday
- Manchester United 2006/2007 Season Review
Tags: Manchester United News
Opti (541)
Stephen (479)
RedDevilEddy (459)
Craig Mc (345)
Moscow is my heaven (272)
@gator: Damn you beat me to it, I’d be excited about him not playing next weekend if he didn’t suck so bad.
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no vidic and no terry…. looks like its gonna be a 4-5 thriller at the bridge… berba for a hatrick.
i’ve calmed down a bit now.. and so what.. let the scouse have their false dawn, fuck ‘em. we will be on top come end of the season. with ronaldo coming back (which is a good thing i may add, although some on here don’t seem to want him back… he’s here, and he’ll play, and once more, he’ll set up and score… no matter how shite wes brown plays)
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@John T: Fergie needs to give out crap to himdelf first mate, before dishing it out to his players. Fergie played a team with no NATURAL width, with a player struggling with painful and hampering injury for 25 mins of 1st half. Hargreaves is FIT, he should have replaced Carrick in 1st half, because of the injury. The Fergie sends on Giggs and not Nani. Nani has been on form, and banging the goals in for Portugal. None of us can understand why Nani wasn’t playing. He is the best natural winger in Ronnies absence, and Park would have been the little terrier we all know he is, snapping at them in the midfield. Park doesn’t give the opposition a minutes peace. Those were the kind of players we needed today. Roy Keane said recently that Fergie is a brilliant man manager, but HE IS NOT A GOOD TACTICIAN. Well, we are getting to see perhaps a little bit of what Keane means, and I bloody hate Keane the way he has been mouthing about United. I agree with him about the tactician thing though. I will always love the Fergie though. He had it right in the beginning, when he said that he wanted to bring in an experienced foreign replacement for CQ, a master tactician, and who could speak spanish and portuguese. What happened?. I think Grog might be right when he says that shortage in finance dept is hampering us. Because we bought Berba for 30 million, a satisfactory replacement for CQ went out the window. That’s what I believe anyway.
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Bloody hell, did anyone see the post match interviews on MUTV?. Rio was asked about the game, but he looked as though he could hardly answer, because he was so choked up, and looked like he was going to burst into tears. He was devestated with the way United played or rather didn’t play today, as he said. I bloody love Rio. He hates losing, and if our defence has an off day, we can allow it, because it seldom happens. It will happen more and more though, if our midfield is as grossly deficient in effort and pace as it was today. The pressure just kept being thrown back on the defence again and again without respite. Our midfield has been very light for some time. This would not be the case though if Hargo and Carrick were fit. But surely we need to start blooding replacements with strength for our midfield for when these 2 are injured.
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The big question will be, will we come out against chel$ki and play with heart (like we should and definitely can) dictating the game and taking it to them: or will we play just as pedestrian as we did today, hoping to catch a break. I think that was a big part of last season, that every time we had a poor performance, the next game we tore into whoever we played, i could really go for that next week.
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@Grognard: Great to have you back man. Why were you out so long? Bad day to come back though, hopefully you can make us more cheerful.
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I was totally pissed off with Fergie’s tactics and especially the fact he brought in Giggs instead of Nani. Yes eventually he brought in Nani but in my opinion, I think the lad should have started. The game needs width and we never pressed them wide all game and in fact allowed them to cause us problems with their width. NUTS!
As for the money situation, I think they have been hampered greatly and the fire sale of marginal talent, Saha and the loan out of Campbell tells me they had to really scramble to find the cash to buy Berba. But honestly, was Phelan the best they could do? Laudrup and other far superior tacticians were available. Hell, I think even Zola would have accepted that job. Finding a tactically inept Brit like Phelan when we are loaded with so many Samba crazy foreigners was just stupidity of the highest order by Fergie. He has never been a tactically superior manager and so far this season, his man managing has left me cold. The team looks uninspired, unmotivated and out of shape. Our conditioning is really questionable as we have puttered out in the second half of all our games.
No hunger out there. No reason to panic yet but Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal are all getting the business done despite their problems. Chelsea was very good today at City. No Drogba, Ballack, Essien and a red card to Terry but they still won comfortably. Arsenal just destroyed Blackburn and they didn’t even play well defensively. We are missing something and I don’t think it’s just our #7. I think we are looking fat and lazy. It’s time for the hairdryer to come out I think however, has Fergie gone soft? He wouldn’t have tolerated that lack of effort five years ago. I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t concerned. I’m very concerned, but I am not ready yet to push the panic button. Still, I predicted that this schedule would force us to be chasing first from the get go, instead of being front runners.
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@Craig Mc: Can yo post the link of the video of the interview??
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@RedDevilEddy: Thanks for welcoming me back mate. I actually returned yesterday but had we won today, the timing would have been perfect. I took a break from things as my frustration and temper were getting the better of me and I just saw it necessary to stop for a while. I’m glad to be back though and I hope things start to look better soon as I am already getting depressed. And I have a feeling it’s only going to get worse next week after watching Chelsea demolish City today. Why the Hell can’t we play with that kind of pride and passion? We really looked third rate today and Fergie better fix things quickly. Too bad he hasn’t CQ or somebody tactically competent to help him out.
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@Grognard: Well, I really think Fergie had a good tactic in mind. Anderson and Scholes cant play together when they are the ONLY TWO CMS. When Carrick or Owen is there, they play better. Andy was actually a left-winger until the second half. Carrick did well until he got injured. We dominated the midfield battle when we had Carrick there, but something just wasnt ment to be our day today. We didnt lose only because we played bad, we lost because of 2 defensive errors that we usually only do a maximum of 3 times in 10 years. I think the plan was great, had VDS not been so stupid, we probably could have won the game.
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@Red Diablo: Red Diablo, there is no video mate, I was watching MUTV. Sorry mate
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I think we should all just let it go now. Don’t think we should be too depressed after this game. Lets wait for a few more games, until we see if we take off like we did last year
. Sometimes we can be too diagnostic after a game. If the other lads felt like Rio did today, he looked absolutely down, and I think maybe the Fergie hairdryer may have been used. Looking at Rio though, it wasn’t necessary if it was used, cos If the other lads looked like he did, well they need picking up and not knocking down. Rio already looked as though he couldn’t be any more emotionally lower. HE TRULY CARED ABOUT THE LOSS.
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Well, I am gonna look at the bright spots of this day. Tevez scored his first goal, Berbatov got his debut, Terry got sent off and wont play against us next week, and The new “Im on Setanta Sports” vid is awsome.
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That Riera was pretty good. Skinned Brown every time.
I’m going to reserve judgement on 4-3-2-1, after all it’s the first time it’s been tried, Anfield is never easy etc.
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@RedDevilEddy: If you look at it closely you will see that Liverpool missed three other total sitters. In fact, they could have scored four or five today. That’s how bad our defense was. And sorry mate but our midfield played like shite. I saw nothing positive in anything Carrick, Scholes, Anderson or Giggs did today. They looked slow and disinterested and were continually out worked and physically intimidated by Mascherano and the rest of the Scouse bastards. Simply put, outside of the first 15 minutes, we were totally dominated. That’s two games in a row this has happened. Actually, Zenit beat us up even worse. I fear even a worse debacle next weekend unless Fergie can drill some sense into the lads and get them motivated and inspired. It’s too bad too. They should have been motivated over the last 4 weeks to try and show us all that they could play without Ronaldo. Instead, they just strengthened my case that they are nothing without him.
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I think it might be time to give Possebon a chance in the middle. He scored a cracker in his last game and he impressed me with his maturity and composure on the ball. Anything has got to be better than Scholes right now.
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@Grognard: I was too nervous when the game went on so i am just talking how I felt it when the game was. I probably wasnt paying much attention to where our midfielders were cause I just wanted us to not let in a goal. So, yeah…
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it’s nice seeing the long wall of text usually associated with grognard, welcome back mate, pleasure to read your rants,i agree with everything you said bar the anderson comment, the boy had a pathetic game making bad passes except the tevez cross and the pass to berbatov to set him free for the first goal his game was poor though i still feel he has more to offer and he will as the season progresses just give the lad time
anyways moving on to the match report, all i have to say the team deserves a nice 6/10 in terms of performance, and 4/10 of those marks came in the first 10 minutes of the game
VDS- terrible, whenever the ball came near him today i was holding my breath, horrible lapses with 2 crosss one of them ending up an own goal, another almost gifted dirk kuyt one just bad
RATING-2/10
BROWN-worst player on the pitch and has gone back to his old nickname own goal which i gave to him 3 seasons ago, it was only a matter of time before he scored one, and he picked the perfect time to be at the wrong place. terrible riera ran him ragged and was just poor, he is the real weak link of this team
RATING-1/10
Vidic- played his heart out, but way too much, ended up getting red carded, had a few lapses but a decent game bar the 2 offences
RATING-5/10
RIO- invisible for the most part, made a few timed tackles and headers, disappeared for the most part however was the best defender on the pitch, was says a lot
RATING-6/10
EVRA-left back pat, singing your song throughout the game about you frogs and council houses. your defending was poor and when you did do your trademark runs up the pitch, you were ineffective at best
RATING-5/10
CARRICK-was in a battle with mascherano for the most part, once he left, we lost the midfield, made good passes, won many 50-50 balls when he was on, we missed him when he was taken off, hope the injury was not too serious
RATING-6/10
ANDERSOM-poor game, for the first time i have seen anderson play since his gremio days, the boy was not clutch, had 2 good passes, one of which set berbatov loose for the first goal, the second of which should have been a goal if it was not for bad finishing, apart from that the boy was no where to be found, shame, we really could have done with him
RATING-5/10
SCHOLES-oh boy, the man is getting old, i mean old, his is not half the player he used to be, and gave a half performance i was really disappointed with, i hold scholes is such high regard, but when he lets a midfield of alonso and mascherano dictate the pace, something has to be wrong with him, maybe this will be the final season before he makes his bow
RATING-5/10
ROONEY-credit to the boy, played out of position and had no supply or a partner to help, he ended up playing a sort of wing back to help out the poor wes brown, has a decent game, probably the best player on the pitch when he had the ball, shame he was not at the right place to do anything when he did have it
RATING-6.5/10
TEVEZ- decent performance took his chance really well, but i felt he should have had 2 goals instead of one, otherwise did well. one thing i did notice however is his tendency to do toooooooo much when he has the ball, as if he is trying to force a play, he should just relax and let it come to him
RATING-7/10
BERBATOV-it’s so nice to see him play, for all the 20 minutes he did decide to play, showed some signs of magnificence, though once he got hurt, he faded away like a shooting start, however i see more will come from count dracula, and this is just the beginning
RATING-6/10
SUBS
GIGGS-his excuse for playing is he offers experience, well liverpools second goal and his blunder was highly INEXPERIENCED, bloody hopeless, and did nothing when he came on, the midfield was lost on top of that, i love the man, he’s done so much for the club, he’s done it all in fact, i think it’s to let go..
RATING-2/10
HARGO-did nothing what so ever when he came on poor
RATING-4/10
NANI- made a stupid cynical challenge when he came on and got booked as well, has a lot to learn with his temperment
RATING- not on long enough
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Grognard, welcome back mate. Just wanted to say that i completely agree with your comment on possebon (comment 165). In my earlier comments i said that i felt that it was time we stopped playing people on their reputation or experience like england and play who we feel deserves a spot and who will do the best when in the line up. I feel that fletcher and oshea are only competent in 1 position and that is left back for oshea and centre midfield for fletcher. Yet despite never impressing when they play in other positions they continue to get picked there. I bet we move oshea and brown around to compensate for vidics loss. We should just throw in evans. He could become the next great player but will probably never get a chance, even though oshea gets chance after chance playing at centre back and always plays crap.
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Does anybody else think that there is too much football now?. I mean, pre season, post season, the feckin olympics, world championship, etc etc bloody etc
. Then more international friendlies than ever. Players backwards and forwards like feckin yoyo’s. WHY?. It’s all money, money, money. It starts with all the feckin rich dudes, and company investments in football. They all want feckin returns on their investments, and they play the players ragged. Players don’t get a proper rest anymore. No wonder they get so many injuries. And so much money is at stake, that the stress levels to WIN and finish top 4 are beginning to tell on players who are so feckin tired, that they can hardly think straight sometimes. It is time it all stopped. There was a lot to be said about the old days type football. My old man told me that players had a good summers rest from end may to august. No interuptions with bloody flying throughout different continents to bring in more and more brass. Then there’s tv and media clambering demanding interviews. It’s all to bloody much. We think football is an easy life, but nor anymore it isn’t. Now they want a 39th game, and then it will be 40th, etc etc etc. FIFA, FA, all the other big organisations wanting more and more of players, to keep there coffers full. When will it all end eh?.
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The real culprit for our defeat is van der sar. the mistake he made shook the confidence of the back four and they all seemed as though they didn’t trust him to deal with anything otherwards and I know it sounds ungrateful after moscow but I think he’s pretty much finished now for us. Ben Foster and the Pole deserve their chance from here on in. But what really gets to me is how crap Rooney’s been playing for quite awhile now and how he seems exempt from any flack from match goers. He used to be our big game player, forever running and showing a desire for the ball but now he seems to hide and use the excuse of playing out of position. I would drop him and play Park or who may not be the most talented but who gives 100% effort and whose direct running and energy unsettles many top sides( see Roma away and Barca at home). As for next week against the rent boys if someone offered us a draw right now I would take it cos defeat will almost certainly fuck us right up as the league is concerned. Anyroad this is typical MUFC roll on next week.
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@Craig Mc: Actually I think the money is more in club football and there is far little commercialisation in international friendlies, Euro’s and olympics.
I think we and the players have lost the right to complain about the commercialisation because private owners do want a return on their investment — the good, it ensures a certain level of quality football, the bad : the need to monetize every fuckin’ inch of the club’s name.
But I’ve decided to stop complaining about it a long time ago because football as we knew it has changed a long while ago. And as United fans, we should of all the people realise that our club has benefited from commercialisation long before the Glazers came over.
In short it cannot stop — like it or not, we have to get used to it.
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@Craig Mc: Truly mate the team’s that win championships these days really have to earn it. I mean one only has to go back to the old format of the European Cup. You played no more than 7 games. Now you almost play that just to get out of the group stage. Too many games and too many international games mixed in with the club seasons. All internationals as well as cup games like the European Super Cup and the World Club Championship need to be played in the off season and as replacements to some of these useless money making friendlies in exotic countries. Too much travel and waste and you wonder why the players look tired already. If they can play the EUROS and the WORLD CUP in the summer, then all internationals should be played then. That gives the best players very little time off but if they want to represent their countries, that is the price they will have to pay. Why? Because I am sick and tired of watching National teams and their managers screw over club sides with calups and week to 10 day delays in the schedule which ruins teams momentum and cohesiveness. Perhaps I’m to set in my North American ways where international duty for sports does not get in the way of leagues and club schedules for any sport. How exhausting is all this to players? Well just think of how exhausting it is to us fans. I was emotionally and physically drained after the Champions League final and I’m just an old couch potato. Like many of us, I was suffering from footy overload. And then two weeks later the EUROS started as well as the Ronaldo fiasco which totally drained me and literally lead me to my hiatus. I just had enough and really needed a break more out of physical and emotional exhaustion. I found I was getting to pissed off to easily and it’s because I wasn’t given a break from this bloody game. You brought up a great point as always mate. I hear ya.
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Damn it I just can’t seem to get my avatar to work. Fucking computer technology!
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The fact that i cant understand is that Fergie spent the whole of the summer saying that he wont sacrifice Rooney again! What happened today then? I mean lets face it Rooney is NO right winger! Even park would be better at that position!
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Ronaldo come back
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Said it before, and got a shelling out of it. But boy, do Giggs and Scholes need to retire. If they are run over by Liverpool in their crestfallen state, how on earth do we expect them to play any part against a strengthened Chelsea in another CL final? Someone even mentioned Scholes is currently one of the best CM in England. A joke, perhaps?
Hyypia was a good example of a long-term servant slowly being escorted into retirement. And perhaps Sir Alex is to blame for being audatious with his tactics. But truth be told, Scholes was overrun, and Giggs ran into brick wall after brick wall when he came on.
I doubt Giggs will last another season before being a TOTAL liability. Scholes, maybe a few stellar performancs in between the dismal ones, but time is really running down on both of them.
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@Red Diablo: That’s a great point. Fergie has learned to take advantage of the boy especially since he is such a team guy and doesn’t care how you play him. I don’t think Fergie likes the idea of telling either him or Tevez that they will have to sit or rotate every other game. Like I said earlier, Fergie is getting soft. Look at his stubborn streak in continually playing Scholes and Giggs over Anderson and Nani. He just can’t look his vets in the face and tell them they will have to sit. Sure that’s probably my own BS but it really makes you think what is priority these days at OT. Winning or the status quo?
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@Jonboi: Another reason to retire other than they can’t play at this level consistently anymore, is the money they will free up for future player purchases. Those two with Neville make a mint and they are tying up a lot of money that could go towards an attacking midfielder and another winger.
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possebon > anderson ????
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We keep saying its just the start of the season etc. BUT let us not forget that if we lose to Chealsea we will be 9 points adrift! that is quite a big difference even at the start of a season. and If you saw chelsea against city yesterday and the way we played against Pool, anyone would put their money on chelsea beating us 2-1 or 2-0 ! lets not take it lightly…our coordination is crappy. we dont have a midfield. we just have defence and the 3 upfront. there is chaos and in my opinion we badly need a good assistant mgr. Even if we get one, not sure HOW soon he can gel into CQ’s role. things dont look good for UNited
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The midfield problem was there last season, that’s why the matches against Lyon and Barca were so insipid, Barca was painful to watch, but United won so it is easy to forget. Scholes scored that goal, Scholes calmly passed the ball around in many a match.
I love Scholes, but he just doesn’t have the legs against the powerhouse teams.
Liverpool aren’t anything special, a couple of Park style players in midfield and some proper wide men would have stopped them…bustling energy and width. Not statues and confusion.
I don’t know what’s up with Anderson, but he’s got lots of energy and has room to improve.
Maybe it’s time for a risk and start playing the players who can only get better, instead of the ones who can only get worse.
Sport is such a mental thing too, there something wrong mentally with the team at the moment. some people can be leaders if you give them a chance, otherwise they go sour (Anderson, Nani). Some are always the same and inspire the others to play better (Roy Keane, Ronaldo). Some just float there, they play well but they don’t create a mental vibe ( Carrick, Scholes, Brown). Cantona, now he was inspiring
I say use Anderson and Nani in most matches, give them the power, see what happens, give them the chance to grow up…and feel important
Possebon is a cool player, I think he has massive potential, I reckon he would need some serious legs and lungs players around him if he were to start now though, he is a little off Premiership speed (not skill) from what I saw of him…I can imagine him with Anderson in the middle, what a beautiful risk that might be, a couple of young Brazilians with ambition to burn
But for the moment there at least needs to be some closing down and some tackles, for the whole match
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@Zahirsmoscowmule: I hear you mate, but I have stopped trying to make any comments about Rooney and his very inconsistent game play for us, because it whips up a kind of hysteria on here from the Rooney fans. The lad can be bloody marvelous at times, but very average for us a good few times too. I don’t think being played out of position does his game any favours, but truth is, Rooney likes to play his own game. To roam wherever he wants, and he seems to thrive when he is in the thick of it. I have tried to give up on working Rooney out, but I am not impressed with his contribution to us in the department he should be contributing lately.
I agree with you about Edwin. Fergie does have to make a decision on his veterans. Yet, Fergie is reluctant to mess with an established back four. If Fergie doesn’t do something about getting us some strength in midfield for when Hargo and Carrick are injured, I dare to say, we may well finish out of the top four. Still if we win our game in hand, we will have 7 points, and be only 3 points behind Chelsea who have ten. We cannot afford to lose to Chelsea, but with the same midfield, I fear we will. By the way, does anybody feel that Man Shitty only turn up when they play against Man United. That was another roll over from them against one of the other top 4. Their fans looked like feckin idiots dressed as bedouin shepherds –
.
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@Red Ranter: RR, if as you say we HAVE to get used to it, then we cannot complain about losing games we would otherwise win, because players as so feckin DOG tired. There’s commercialism, and then there’s GREED, I think football is falling more and more into the 2nd category. Football has lost its soul, because its ROBOTS for MONEY owners demand now. I think the players turn up sometimes, and just churn out whatever they have left, like ZOMBIES.
As for the NO commercialism in international games and olympics etc, and out of or in season lucrative friendlies both international and club games, not bringing in ££££££££££££s, what makes you think that mate. Where do you think the VERY wealthy FA, FIFA etc etc etc get their money?. TV broadcasting alone brings in feckin millions.
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well boys, yesterday was awful.. poor Rio, gave his best on the pitch and as captain did not deserve to be the leader of that disappointing performance. Looks like y’all have already said everything, but there’s a few things that really ticked me off…
What’s up with Fergie’s team formation/selection? As soon as the ‘unfit’ carrick got injured, we were run ragged. We have ‘fit’ players like Fletch and Park who could terrorize the midfield but alas, they were no where to be found, instead we bring on another ‘unfit’ player in hargreaves.
Then there’s rooney playing out wide on the right? What happened to Fergie saying he’ll stop sacrificing this boy? Capello demonstrated to Fergie on how and where to play Wayne Rooney – which, coincidentally is where he used to play when he arrived at United – and we all could see how he shone. The boy is born to create chances for himself and others from a central position, yet Fergie continues to waste that talent on the wings, when he and everyone knows Rooney is not the best at beating players!!! Wat happened to Nani, Park or Giggs? why have wingers and not use them?
Berba tried his best, but as soon as he got that knock, he fizzled out and Tevez, apart from the goal, was nowhere to be found.. he is supposed to create chances for Berba, but alas, nothin. The midfield was terrible, an ‘unfit’ carrick and an ageing scholes of course could not compete with mascherano and alonso. What happened to fletch, the guy lives for this type of games. Anderson was just poor and has been for a while, why Nani and Park were not utilised was beyond me… i mean, liverpool had more width than us yesterday!!
VDS was atrocious, it’s like he’s losing his skills, cuz he’s gettin worse with every performance… Evra and Brown had to run up the field a lot to create width cuz we had no wingers and hence left us open a lot and with the absence of a ‘fit’ DMF, Rio and Vida did their best to contain liverpool’s counter attack..
All in all, Fergie’s tactics were poor, it’s like he just put the team together and told ‘em to go out, play and enjoy themselves… the substitutions were poor, after half-time, we looked like we didn’t want to be on the pitch anymore.. maybe this might spur Fergie and the players to have a bit more hunger for winning, cuz at the mo, there’s none..
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Our fitness sucks. Our midfield has not looked sharp all season. Blame injuries, returning from injuries, international break whatever. Once the midfield falls apart the defence is placed under pressure and it slips. Anderson looks sluggish and invisible, Carrick played well but didn’t seem fit, Scholes hit some good passes but can occasionally seem lightweight, Rooney is not a midfielder, Hargreaves didn’t get stuck in and so on.
I think Ferguson did not show Liverpool enough respect. We should have adopted a more cautious approach similar to how we usually play in European away games. Loading our team with three strikers was foolhardy especially when our midfield was underweight because of injuries, poor form etc.
We need to start picking teams based on natural positions and fitness rather than trying to fit in all our best players a la England. And yeah I do not think Quieroz would have sanctioned that team selection.
But it is stupid to panic. Our midfield is just not fully fit and we have too many players carrying or returning from injuries. Really we would have lost to far worse teams than Liverpool. So if we are going to lose at least let it be in matches that aren’t must-wins. Same goes for the Chelsea away game.
Last season we had a great record against top 4 teams but dropped silly points against mediocre teams (such as Man City). That is where we have to make the improvement this season.
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People say we need new midfielders, well i have been under this impression all season, infact well before the season started. I said from the word go we need a new winger. Apart from ronaldo who do we have as a right winger. Not a player who can play there if needed like flecher or park, but a natural tight midfielder. Just a young player who we can pick up for cheap who has potential and would not mind being 2nd choice. The type of player like a walcott or ashley young. Instead we settle with fletcher who despite scoring twice does not offer much.
Alot of people on here also are complaining about a dominant central midfielder to boss the match. Up until the champions league final i thought that we definitely didn’t need one but after watching us get dominated in midfield in that match i changed my mind. The performance yesterday further fuelled these thoughts. Does anybody think we should make a bid for wilson palacios. He is a quality player but his price tag will be high. I just feel we lack a defensive midfielder with bite. Hargreaves when fit is excellent in the middle but is rarely fit so we don’t have anybody else. Another option is to bring in diarra from real madrid. If ronaldo is to go next season i would like to see him in some sort of swap. During his time in Lyon he was said to better than essien so he is a quality player. The only other option could be to bring in steven appiah on a free tranfer. What are your thoughts?
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doom and gloom, rabble, rabble, rabble. We are actually better off at this stage than we were last season. Fergie needs to give CQ a call to help him with his tactics. Chelsea play much more attack minded now and push Bosingwa and A. Hole up the pitch which would allow us to pick them apart if Ronaldo and Nani are on the wings. Rooney and Tevez up front because Berbatov should never have played this match. I knew he would but he shouldn’t have. If we have Fletch or Hargreaves in the middle to gobble up Deco and Scholes WILL play next week ’cause he’s suspended on Wednesday
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@Liam: So we are actually better off at this stage than we were last season. Hardly commendable though, is it Bro. Fergie himself said, that if our early performances and points collection were as they were at the beginning of last season, he doesn’t think we will be able to play catch up as we did last year. Arsenal fell away because of serious injuries at strategic times. I am not saying I agree with him, but if we do lose to Chelsea, (and be honest, we have no winning record at their place), then we will be well behind. Apart from anything else, it will not do the moral of the United players any favour. I saw Rio yesterday, he was down, down, down. If the other players are feeling like him, it is not helpful for any of them. FFS we actually MADE L’fool look mighty
.
People on the blog are not dooming and glooming per se, they are right about our midfield. We are impoverished with the players we have when Hargo and Carrick are out for any reason. Fergie can’t be heavily criticised for not doing anything about midfield, because that is what he bought Hargo and Carrick for, to do the strengthening. We have very little else though. If Berba is fit, I still think he will play at Chelsea, I would be surprised ifr he didn’t. Pity Manucho isn’t available yet, because Terry is out, and the Chelski defence are there for the taking. Manucho is Heskey type, and he always hassles Chelski. We need a midfield at Chelsea. I wouldn’t play Giggs, and I wouldn’t play Scolesy if I am honest. We have very little choice. If Hargo comes through with no ill effects on the tendonitis, I would play him. I would give Anderson the rollicking of his life, and tell him to get used to the bench if he doesn’t shape up, and move his arse again. I would NEVER use Rooney on the wing, if Fergie chooses to play Berba, then Rooney should be just behind him, and Tev on the bench as sub. Nani and Ronnie (if as Fergie says CR is back for that game), then the wings and width will be taken care of. Shockingly, I am not sure that I would play Ronnie in the Chelski game, because he will not be up to match fitness yet, or will he –
?. Maybe Park on the right, little snapping terrier. Chelski I have a feeling, will do what L’pool did, and swamp their midfield for this one. I hope we sneak a draw, but not if our midfield is not sorted.
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@Craig Mc: true… i said already that i had the feeling Fergie just put the players together and told ‘em to go out, play and enjoy themselves… there was really no shape or width whatsoever and as soon as Liverpool got their act together it was over.
The formation yesterday would have been okay if we had a ‘fit’ and 100% DMF like fletch playing in front of the back four. That will have given evra and brown enuff license to go up and down the wings creating width, and anderson and scholes the freedom to boss masch and alonso. berbatov would push the defensive line back, and rooney and tev will have space in the hole to create opportunities… but alas, that was not to be.
In our next matches, we should start with players who are fit and hungry, the unfit ones should play in the reserves to get back to full fitness or something. We are THE team to beat this season and every other team will give 120% against us, hence we need to be at 100% or more, not taking opposition for granted, we did it with newcastle, and now liverpool – both who were supposedly guaranteed 3 points for us.
The crux of our game is wing attack, especially in the prem, so why not play it? we have wingers, why exclude them and start playing boring, unpenetrative formations? Fergie dropped the ball in the last match, but liverpool were due a win, and we just rolled over and gave it to them.
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@Gabriel: Yeah mate agreed. A lot of the United faithful down the pub, were saying they wouldn’t mind the loss, cos as you say, L’Pool were due a win at their place, but it was the way we lost. Many were saying, that the whole of pre season, and since, we have looked out of sorts in games. Like players are just being sent out to fill a gap wherever. Round pegs in square holes, were just some of the things that people were saying yesterday. Most people on here some while ago were all saying that they feared the loss of quiroz more than anything, and perhaps they were right. Somebody was saying that he isn’t doing that well for Portugal, give me a break. I watched the Portugal match, and they should have won that match against the Danes 5 or 6 nil. Never on this earth did they deserve to lose that match. 2 late sneaky goals to the Danes. Portugal were miles the better team in my opinion, and CQ had got his tactics right. We needed to replace him rightly, it doesn’t appear we have done. But lets wait and see over the next few games. I hope things will buck up. If we keep slow starting every year though, Fergie won’t always be able to work his magic. We have yet to get started this season.
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Boy I’m reading a lot of negativity over our loss yesterday. I being the Prince of Fucking Darkness have no right to tell any of you not to be so negative and bloody depressing simply because I am the King of negativity and depression and because I happen to share a lot of your feelings. However, lets not completely lose perspective here. This was far from a must win contest. It was only the third match of the season and although it was against the Scouser bastards, it was not vital to our seasonal ambitions. Let Rafa’s dumb fucks win won once in a while just so that they don’t all commit suicide over the fact we own their asses. Hold on…….strike that last comment. On second thought massive suicide of all Liverpool players and manager would be a welcomed event to be sure. What was I thinking?
Now back to our problems. United are in a world of shit and they don’t even know it. If some of you want to take the time or can for that matter, go back well over a year when I first came on to the site and read how many times the old Grognard pleaded, cried and begged that Fergie would sign not only a qualified goal scoring striker but the fact that we were in desperate need for an attacking midfielder and one more winger who could better balance our attack, especially when Ronaldo was not in the lineup. Many disagreed with me about the winger as we had signed Nani and everybody thought I was nuts about the AMFer because they all thought Scholes was fine and that Anderson was supposed to be some kind of Ronaldinho. Well it’s been over a year now and I do not see any Ronaldinho in the lad. More like Ronald McDonald actually.
Nani has been a massive disappointment for me as his consistency has been an issue for me as well as his temperament and 10 cent head. Now before my old mate Craig jumps all over me about Nani, don’t completely feel that I don’t see his plus side. The boy is a great play maker and has a very lethal shot as well as being a strong dribbler in one on one encounters. But lets face it, the lad is almost 22 not 17 like Ronaldo was when he first showed up. He should be farther along and more mature than he has shown. He also seems to have regressed badly since he was benched and got a bad scolding for that stupid red card he took at season’s end. I’m just not sold on him right now and I don’t know if I ever will be. Believe me I want to but he needs to grow up, be less moody and show much more determination and energy out there. In games where he has played he has yet to say “I will be your new Ronaldo and make you forget.” Instead he goes through the motions and at half the pace. Still, this lad has loads of talent, got many assists for us last year and is the best crosser of the ball on the team (although I think Hargo is slightly better). Where is the hunger to prove yourself like Ronaldo exhibits every game? What he needs is for a super talent like Alex Sanchez to push him. Right now he is depressed because no matter what he does, Fergie prefers old Giggsy who is well past it. This can only contribute to Nani’s feelings of hopelessness and may account for what I see as a lack of effort. Why work your socks off when and old player will constantly be chosen in front of you? He has a point, but he is also immature if that is his reason for not playing for us the way he does for Portugal.
As for Anderson, I have never been a big fan or a loud supporter of the lad. I don’t dislike him, I just don’t see what the big hoopla is all about? What exactly is it about this player that gets so many of you up off of your chairs chanting ANDERSONSON ANDERSONSON etc? He is a decent passer of the ball and until recently ran his heart out and defended fairly well from central midfield but I have yet to see the skill set that makes me believe that he is the heir to Scholes. He cannot score a goal for his life and he has no finesse in his game. His good passes are strictly ground huggers and he has never shown me the ability to chip or lob a pass into an attackers path and has not shown me that he can change and manage the tempo of a game. He is a great dribbler at high speed but his decision making processes do not work at that speed. Quite often his endeavors end up as nothing more than a forlorn hope. Yes he is young too but I just don’t see in him what a young Scholes had once moving from striker to AMF. I want a Bobby frakken Charlton, Michael Ballack, Juan Riquelme, Diego Maradona in that position, not Mr. Anderson. I want the AMF of Manchester United to be a talisman and a play maker capable of setting up players with goal scoring opportunities and taking enough chances himself to score in double digits year after year. Unrealistic, perhaps. Maradona’s, don’t pop up very often but there are many very competent and highly skilled ones available and we never seem to go after them. No, instead we put up with the ones we have who are either too old or not good enough to be the General of our midfield and direct our troops accordingly. But then again, perhaps we do have the player who can fit in there and be the man. Rodrigo Possebon looks to have the maturity, composure and the confidence to be another Scholes and he is capable and willing to score goals and make well timed attacking runs at the opposition. Yet Fergie continues with Scholes and Anderson. Sorry folks, but they no longer are the answer. Scholes is over the Hill. He still is a very tidy player but his offensive game is gone and his lack of quickness and pace has turned into a liability. Anderson may yet improve but I have serious doubts. Not enough improvement in his offensive game from the time he first played to now for my liking.
So other than Possebon, who do we go after? I am going to drop a name that for me is one of the best attacking midfielders and play makers in European football right now and he is only 19. I mentioned this player’s name last year when he was playing the Bundesliga 2 last season. Marko Marin of Monchengladbach and Germany. The lad is simply gifted and incredible. He can play winger, OMF or AMF and has the creativity, pace, vision and finishing skill to be dynamic. He’s everything Luka Modric was billed to be but isn’t. He is the cloning of Tomas Hassler and Olaf Thon who for my money were great German attacking midfielders with lack of size. I absolutely love this kid and really, I am surprised he is still with Monchengladbach. Watch that team if you get the chance. They are a great young team and this player is lightning in a small little bottle. There is something almost Maradona like about him. He and Toni Kroos are the future of German football for sure. He is only 19 and I think he could be had for the right money. But United is asleep at the wheel when it comes to Germans. If Fergie was going to go for a German he would go for the rumored Bastien Schweinsteiger. I like Schweiny but he is so wrong for our team. He is too slow and gets phased out of a game very easily. He has lapses in concentration and work ethic. When he is on he is great but too often, he is asleep at the wheel. Yet Fergie apparently likes him. Go figure! I am a huge Bayern supporter and I watch and record every one of their games like I do United’s. Therefore, I feel I have a pretty good grasp of their players and Schweiny has always been a player that frustrates me because he can be world class one game and Coca Cola league the next. Anyway, what do many of you think about our central midfield problem? One thing I will say before ending this long rant (sorry) is that we do play quite often with two DMF’s and no attacking midfielder at all. That is because we play with two advanced wingers and our offensive setup constitutes that they bring the ball up, not the attacking midfielder. That’s nice but it is also very one dimensional and an excuse. We play like that because we have Ronaldo and because Scholes can no longer play that advanced role. Also, Anderson and Carrick cannot play it either. I honestly believe we would play the very creative and successful diamond formation 4-1-2-1-2 if we had a creative AMF. One can dream can’t he not? Right now United are in the middle of a power struggle. The new kids on the block vs the Old Boys Network. It’s time for Neville, Giggs and Scholes to call it a day and free up these younger lads to express themselves. They would also free up enough money from their wages to help liquid cash poor United to go out and find that young and potentially lethal attacking midfielder. CHEERS!
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@Craig Mc: we really have looked out of sorts, haven’t we? I reckon we should adopt our usual 4-4-2. Rooney, Berba and tevez should rotate up front; Wingers should be Park, Nani, Ronaldo and Giggs with fletch/hargreaves/gibson/anderson filling in when needed; our central mid should be scholes/ando/possebon/gibson and fletch/hargreaves/carrick playing a more defensive role. Defence shuld be the same, with the twins and Evans gettin more of a look in.
Since pre-season, we’ve not played a solid formation, keep on mixing and matchin… it’s time the boss settles on a formation and let the team train with it. Like I said earlier, we are THE team to beat, and if we keep showing up at games planning to freestyle our game, we will pay for it.
On some of the players, they need to either step up or be benched, simple as. Anderson, on his recent performances does not deserve a place ahead of Fletch and Possebon. Hargo and carrick should get back to fitness before being included and if they are not ready, play them in reserves till they are, we have sufficient back-up. If a player underperforms consistently, drop him, we have enough players competing for a spot.
I don’t know if Fergie is gettin soft, the team is lackin somethin and I don’t know what it is, but I hope fergie and the backroom staff can correct it soon, cuz if we loose to chelsea, we will be way behind the top three…
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Grognard i do believe that we need another midfielder but disagree that it is an attcking one we need. I believe we need a proper defensive midfielder who will boss the game just like mascherano did for them yesterday. We have hargreaves but he is rarely fit and that leaves us without a general to hold the fort like essien is for chelsea, mascherano for the scousers, gattuso is for milan. Don’t you feel concerned about this?
I agree with you that we need a winger. I prioritised this even above getting a striker. I just feel we need another winger who is different and is a general right sided player. A speed demon like walcott would be ideal.
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@Matthew: I think Carrick showed many times last year that he was more than capable of playing that role and then lifting some nice long passes to start counters. And yes Hargo has been injured but he is far better than Mascherano when he is healthy. Health is the problem there, not age. We are too long in the tooth in certain midfield positions and those need to be addressed. Last year we conceded only 22 goals as a team without a healthy Hargreaves and with no Mascherano. That is not our biggest need. Striker was our biggest need but we also need more play making and scoring from our midfielders. Teams do not fear our midfielders and thus do not put a great emphasis in defending them. This frees them to put more attention towards our forwards and Ronaldo. A proper attacking midfielder would make them think twice and force them to concentrate on more defensive duties. It would be a win win situation. And we are in agreement over the need for a winger. Walcott is nice but there are better ones out there, believe me. And a lot cheaper. Unfortunately United is too cheap for their own good. I love Berbatov but I still would have preferred spending 10 million less and buying Huntelaar and then buying a winger like Sanchez for 10 to 12 million. They have thrown their whole transfer kitty on to one player and that is asking for trouble if he gets hurt or if he doesn’t deliver in spades. Huntelaar would have been cheaper, a better scorer and we could have kept Campbell for depth and still had money to play with. Still, I hope the best for the team and for Berba. I love to watch that guy play.
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@Grognard: Mate, I agree with two points you made there, we need a young, promising, but ready to play winger and it’s the old boys vs the new boys.
We have promising AMF’s in our club; Anderson, Possebon, Cleverley. These boys just need the opportunity to shine, because scholes is more of a DMF now. Anderson is dissapointing and should be given a sit-down talk, then given the opportunity to show his talent. But he can’t do that, unless we employ the services of a DMF; hargo, fletch and carrick can do this. We also have Possebon who looks good, and should get his chance.
The winger situation has been worrying me since pre-season; I beleive we talked about it. How, United of all teams have not possessed genuine width in any of our games this season is beyond me. That is the crux of our attacking play, and with Giggs gettin slow, Nani should feature more prominently, with Park and Ronnie. We should also be looking for a young replacement for Giggs in our wing quartet when he retires. Like Matthew said, a speed demon will be preferrable, as that is what the premiership is about, pace.
If the midfield and offence is sorted out, our back four can concentrate on defence and we will go back to last season’s stinginess in front of goal. Brown cannot consistently create width and defend flawlessly at the same time, neither can Evra. VDS looks to be relaxed, knowing this is his last season and he is guaranteed a spot in the squad, maybe fergie should threaten him a bit with regular interchanging of him and Kusczy or Foster.
As for giggs, scholes and neville, it is obvious this lads are gettin old and Fergie should use them sparingly like he has begun with Giggs, just bring ‘em on later in the game to bring composure and experience when we are in front or looking for a goal.
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@Matthew: One more thing Matthew. I am reading reports that United are considering fighting it out with Arsenal for Miguel Veloso again. So Fergie may be concerned about Hargo’s long term status with the team. If so, Veloso would cost 15 million or more for sure and that again may be out of their range. Who really knows? Still, he would be the defensive midfielder you would want. I for one would love Marin but that is a pipe dream I’m sure. In the end Marin will be yet another acquisition by the mighty Bayern. Even if they don’t need him.
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@Gabriel: Can’t really disagree with much of what you are saying. I do think that we need to see what Foster is all about and that EVDS now thinks he is invincible because of his penalty stopping heroics. He needs to start looking over his shoulder. A little pressure will help him focus and concentrate more. Anderson does need to be sat down and made to rethink his approach. Problem with him is the same problem with Rooney. From day one he has been played out of his position and comfort zone. He is an offensive player playing a deeper defensive midfield role and that just does not work for him. Scholes and Giggs greatest influence should be in the dressing room and on the training pitch. Stop wasting our young talent and time by starting and playing these old boys too much. Fine, they are legends and we all love them but sometimes you have to say enough and thanks and goodbye. Nani needs to be shown the confidence and belief from the manager that he is the the one. Play him. Better yet, start him. And get on his ass if he doesn’t play up to his skill set. Possebon needs to be given a chance now. Why not, he has what it takes and he is composed and mature for his age. Break him in the way Fergie broke in Ronaldo in his first year. Give the boy a chance.
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Obviously different matches throw up different problems but United doesn’t have a all-in-one type midfielder:
Carrick is a silker passer but can’t run and can’t tackle, Scholes idem+, Park is one giant lung but isn’t exactly imposing. Anderson can pass, can tackle, and can get physical (not bad).
Possebon can pass, tackle?, has he got stamina?, he has a laser guided rocket shot, Fletcher can do a bit of everything but nothing extremely well.
Hargreaves is never fully fit but he’s the most complete in his array.
A younger version Ballack would be good: tall powerful, free kicks, headers, aggressive, great passer, good stamina
We’re gonna have to do a transplant and give Scholes Park’s lungs and legs
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@Grognard: Mate, the funny thing is that we have all the ideal players for every position in our squad, yet fergie continously plays them out of position, take a look at this:
GK: VDS, Kuczy, Foster
CB: Rio, Vida, Evans
RB: Brown, Rafael, Neville
LB: Evra, Fabio, O’Shea
DMF: Hargo, Fletch
CMF: Scholes, Carrick, Gibson
AMF: Ando, Possebon
SMF/WF: Ronaldo, Nani, Park, Giggs
SS: Rooney, Tevez
CF: Berba, Manucho
We are playing at home this wednesday, why not play a solid 4-1-3-1-1 and attack.
VDS
Brown-Rio-Evans-Evra
—–Hargreaves—–
Park—-Ando—-Nani
——-Rooney——-
——-Tevez——–
Hargo and fletch are DMF’s and can be swapped if hargo isn’t 100%. Ando, Possebon can play as AMF’s and if we need to go defensive, bring on scholes as a CMF. I put on Evans, because Vidic is suspended for our nxt two PL games and it will be good for him to form some chemistry with ferdinand before we face chelsea away from home. Rooney should always play SS and stay away from CF, berba and tevez can play both so should rotate with him and also with each other for the CF position.
That, i reckon is a solid formation, and more importantly, a young and energetic one. Fergie should give these boys a chance to shine in their preferred positions and stop trying to fit square pegs in round holes. What do you think?
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Grognard, diamond wouldn’t work so long as we had Ronaldo. But if Ronaldo leaves I agree it is the way forward because other than Ronaldo and the full backs we do not have any good wide players.
Personally I do not rate Anderson either. Sure he produced some good performances against Arsenal, Liverpool last season. But Fletcher can do that too and he is not labelled the next Ronaldinho. For Brazil he looks ordinary.
Nani at least shows glimpses of what he can do: his crossing, his goalscoring, his dribbling, his pace, his assists.
Personally I rather liked the way Capello played against Croatia. 4-4-2 with plenty of width, one attacking central midfielder and one defensive midfielder.
Carrick or Hargreaves can both do a job in defensive midfield. But Scholes hasn’t looked like an attacking midfielder in ages and Anderson to me seems more of a defensive midfielder than an attacking midfielder.
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