Dec 04
Ljajic transfer about-face is a strange one
We’ve often seen Ferguson express interest in young players. Hell, as we speak, he must be looking at a host of young promising footballers who could become the next star at our club. A few months ago — well, nearly a year ago, to be correct — United completed deals for Zoran Tosic and Adem Ljajic from Partizan Belgrade. The transfers saw Tosic move to the club immediately but Ljajic join the side in January 2010.
Only recently, about a couple of months ago, Ferguson was quoted as being rather excited about his arrival:
Given all the talk about him and the fact he plays for Serbia’s Under 21s even though he’s only 18, we hope we will be granted the permit.
Of course, there is also the small issue of actually having paraded him along with Tosic at Old Trafford like the picture below, and manutd.com doing a Q&A with him. [Manutd.com never does such things till something is completely done.]
The comparisons of showing interest in players and then dropping them won’t necessarily apply here, because this was a done deal [with the option to reject clause in it, of course] and money was obviously budgeted for this back in December.
The statement from United obviously was a strange one because it suggests we’ve suddenly decided he wasn’t that good after all. It’s quite possible he isn’t as good as he was being made out to be despite overwhelming opinion on the contrary by most accounts. However, the Ferguson quote — that they were looking to apply for a work permit and their excitement about the player — does not quite add up. It’s really odd if they went scouting his matches after Ferguson made that remark just to be sure he’s good.
This brings us to the obvious questions swirling around in the media that we’re skint. Despite such fears expressed by all and sundry, as well as the lurking fear at the back of most United fans’ minds about our financial situation — there is little hard evidence in the open to prove we are doing badly. We haven’t had egregious problems dealing with banks on our loans like the Liverpool owners have, nor have we defaulted on our payments so far. The only thing we can base our judgements on, is by our spending in the transfer market.
Even then, it’s hard to say anything tangible, because Ferguson’s transfer dealings have often confounded fans and pundits alike only for them to be proven wrong. At the moment, the Glazer ownership has one positive — which is to ensure a manager doesn’t just throw money around for the heck of it: something Ferguson was guilty of when he went on a spree buying the likes of Bellion, Djemba-Djemba, Kleberson and the like. That scatter gun approach taught him to be more prudent. Most of Ferguson’s buys during the Glazer era has been astute. Vidic, Evra, van der Sar for instance. Even Park’s purchase was a good one at the time. We have seen a clear directive (although not explicit) that Berbatov was the exception in the deal to buy players under 26.
A lot of thought needs to be put before we buy players, instead of spending for the sake of satisfying shareholders. [I am not saying the Glazer model of club ownership is right, mind; far from it.] Another instance of this approach is when we didn’t throw crazy money at Tevez. Perhaps, Ljajic is just us being sensible in the market. Maybe he really isn’t that good. Maybe we are saving up now because we intend to have someone lined up for January.
Well, we’d better. Because, at the moment, most fans are forgiving and believe either of two things. One: that Ferguson genuinely believes players are overpriced in this market, or two: that Ferguson honestly believes this side is good enough to last this season.
However, despite a favourable comparison in the goal tally, with respect to last season [although last season, in my opinion, is not an ideal we should be aspiring to, as we limped across the finish line] I am not entirely convinced about a majority of the performances put in this season. I am willing to concede this is a transitional season, and in a season of transition one looks to build a side good enough to dominate the future. But that is a discussion for another day.
United’s handling of the Ljajic affair is hard on the boy, and has been generally abysmal. It goes against the grain of the club’s excellent reputation as far as handling young players is concerned. But, there are already feelers in the media that this money could be put to better use on more ‘ready made’ stars. If that’s the case, I’m fine with it. If not, I will be fine with that too, but the seeds of doubt about our finances actually affecting our decisions in the transfer market — dormant so far — could germinate.
Edit: Phelan in the press conference today gave a different reason for the club deciding against Ljajic:
Mike has just been asked about why Serbian youngster Adem Ljajic is no longer joining the club. Apparently the club were unable to gain a work permit for Ljajic in time for when they had to make a decision about whether or not to sign him. He also added that money was not an issue.
So yesterday they said he wasn’t good enough. And today they say it’s a work permit issue. You’d think a club like Manchester United would at least invest in decent PR.
Also, United Rant who’d emailed the Man Utd communications department, got a response from them here.
Further reading:
1. A very good breakdown of the Ljajic non-transfer by Man United Youth.
2. Soccerlens – Are Manchester United screwed?
3. United Rant – United’s reputation for youth under threat.
Related items from Red Rants:
- United’s Tongue Twisting Duo and What they Mean
- Man Utd v Barcelona: Preview
- Blackburn v Man Utd: Preview
- Easter Island Head To Arsenal: Funniest. Transfer. Ever.
- Transfer magic / what next for United?
Tags: Opinions/Columns
December 4th, 2009 at 10:17
The whole saga is a repeat of the Carlos Tevez affair.Say what you want about the Argie,but he sweated blood for this team,and was promised a contract only for the club to turn around and say stuff like he wasnt worth the money.As fans we bought into that,as the club picked a free owen,a cheap obertan,and valencia.
Fast foward to Ljajic and four weeks to the D-day,he isnt worth it.I know many fans wont blame fergie opting for the soft target glazers,but what is fergies role at the club?
Great manager,but he is continually losing the plot.
December 4th, 2009 at 10:22
@donibrasco: He sweated blood, and so does Rooney. Yet, you wouldn’t think twice if he was sold. Explain, please.
Ferguson has built a bank of credit with the fans, and it’s only natural it will be a while before fans actually turn on the manager. I am still willing to give him the benefit of doubt.
December 4th, 2009 at 10:38
Your last paragraph pretty much sums up my feeling about the whole thing. If it’s financial as the smoke signals tell us, then are we in THAT dire a situation that 10 Mill is construed as big spending despite not having spent our yearly budget, the ronaldo money notwithstanding. If it isn’t the money, but the talent, why put the kid through all this? So many years in the business, I am sure this would have been considered, Fergie’s statement of intent certainly misled everyone.
Like I mentioned in United youth, if the talent was in doubt, we could have considered loaning Tosic back and getting Ljajic in for a longer period to judge him. That way Tosic plays in the first team, Partizan would have been more accommodating with the loan and we would have had the best of both worlds. It’s very hard to digest that we went from “Given all the talk about him and the fact he plays for Serbia’s Under 21s even though he’s only 18, we hope we will be granted the permit.” to “We had an option to buy the player but, having closely monitored his development over past 12 months, and taken into the consideration the young players emerging through the ranks, we have chosen not to pursue the transfer.” makes us, i think, look like d*%#@s who stiffed a kid. Bad PR and we apparently paid his salary anyways!!!
December 4th, 2009 at 10:45
you say judge us by our spending, well taking the £10m off for Ljajic now means that since The Gimps took over, we’ve had a negative overall expenditure.
that is (pardon my french) FUCKING ridiculous, given the amount we’re expected to pay to go and watch them (which i stopped doing last year after 30 years) and the fact we’re the most profitable club in the world.
we’re doing ok as a club due to the fact that we’ve got the best manager EVER at the helm but there’s gonna be nothing he can do in 2013 when the first instalment of the PIK repayments are required.
just £75m !
then, just another £75m in 2014 and £150m in both 2015 AND 2016.
we’re fucked, and the quicker the cancerous american bastards die or fuck off the better in my eyes.
we’ve treated this (very highly rated) kid very very shoddily, and apart from that, have probably burnt our bridges with a part oif the world that’s providing some class footballers at the moment. good work all round? no.
not having a pop at you fella, but the assertion that “there is little hard evidence in the open to prove we are doing badly” doesn’t ring true to me.
again, apols for sounding off at you, i’m obviously not angry at you, just the situation, that’s all.
December 4th, 2009 at 10:52
@algernon radish: No worries. And no offence taken. You’ll be surprised that a lot of people share your views on here.
As for hard evidence, I am talking about access to the books, and whether we are doing badly in interest payments.
All I’m saying is the Glazer influence on our club is still not apparent because Ferguson is holding things together. For all practical purposes, despite whatever influence the Glazers may influence the manager, Ferguson has a huge say on the transfer activity.
I believe our side has deficiencies, and I think how Ferguson operates in January will go a long way saying whether it’s the Glazers or Ferguson calling the shots in the back room.
December 4th, 2009 at 11:01
It’s not a question of the “shots” as much as the ability. If we are fucked financially, we can’t expect Fergie to wave a wand and create that kind of first team talent from the youth alone. If our (Glazers) strategy is to cut down on buying talent, we risk our stand as top club. There are talents and there are marquee talents, big names, these things do matter in the business that is football. And if we don’t have the monies for Ribery, Silva et al. then we should at least stick to our new transfer policy of buying younger talent, Ljajic is definitely up there. If we are to expect the Gibsons of this world to suddenly turn world class….
December 4th, 2009 at 11:08
Its very simple in essence, all this arises from foreign ownership, ass clowns who have no insight on football whatsoever. Its really sad, I think Sir Alex just wont admit the facts(Glazers are sucking the life out of our beloved club and Sir Alex is singing to their tune), he has far too much pride and he is determined to throw everything on the line just to ensure that he gets his swan song(One more European cup and Premier league).
So we as fans are left with heartache and frustration.
Tell you one thing though, we all live, breathe and die for this club, and may it be the same for those after us.
December 4th, 2009 at 11:09
@donibrasco: The soft target the Glaziers FFS. When I was a teenager I thought the most important person at the club was the star player. Then I grew up a little and thought the most important person at the club was the manager. Then I realised the most important person or people are the owners of the club. The ones that pay the wages
I have read some very good blogs on this subject and this looks like some thing the paying fans will not get any truth or clarity on for some time.
United is a huge business and as a result the information released is subject to extreme spin and the truth being buried in order to maintain commercial confidence. In short if we are skint no one will ever say it. Every message released must enhance not harm turn over. As a big business Manchester United is a propaganda machine
One point of extreme interest is the fact that Fergie is NOT holding a press conference today. Mr Short Shorts is holding it instead. This could be a coincidence, really it could be. If it is. It is a big one.
One theory is that the Lijic deal has been killed as funds are needed for strengthening in other areas. If that is the case we should all worry. We received 80 million less than 6 months ago
So if Glazier (the troll) has pulled the plug on the deal due to money being tight and Fergie is not happy, Him refusing the press today would make sense along with Fergie heading for retirement in May. Does one person think he will stick around if his hands are being tied and his reputation being damaged. He would never just walk out on us. But a hero’s retirement in May must look tempting if his transfer hands are tied behind his back.
I would just like to say as well with regards the money we got for Ronnie. It is widely believed the Ronnie deal was done 12 months before he left. Now I would not be surprised if Berbatov was purchased out of the Ronaldo pot, throw in a Valencia and a Zoran Tosic at another 7 million and you start to see that by throwing another 10 or 12 million on top of that for Lijic and you start to see a lot of cash has been spent and very little is left
And before any one says well Glazier promised us 25 million a year. My broadband company promised me 20 meg internet connection then i noticed the words up to in front of the 20 meg as I get a poor 6 meg at best. My government promised me a better standard of living over 10 years later I am worse of today as I as the day they got elected.
Do you see my point
Manchester United fans of the world you let our success fool you. We have an enemy it is not CIty or Liverpool or Chelsea. It is Glazier. The Glazier family is our enemy. The richest club on earth is now a debt ravaged mess, thanks to one family
GLAZIER OUT
December 4th, 2009 at 11:15
I’ve calmed down a bit from yesterday (when I was suitably apoplectic) and am now just a bit sad.
I think it was Traverse that correctly pointed out there’s not reason to be sad for the kid himself, he’ll still make millions and get signed by a big club. There’s no reason to be sad for our team, because no matter how good he might be, he wouldn’t have been a first team regular for at least a season or two.
It’s more just sadness at the massive PR f*ck up that our club has become. We had real goodwill from a) Munich b) playing great football and c) not being Chelsea. That has almost evaporated over the past 4 months. We no longer play good football, we no longer conduct ourselves with dignity (Fergie, stfu ffs) and Chelsea have mounted a pretty successful charm offensive. Even I kind of like Ancelotti.
I don’t know if it’s management, Gill, Fergie, Glazers or where the buck stops, but something is very wrong, and it’s just sad.
We now have a situation where we’ve looked at 3 wingers in the past 2 season – Nani, Tosic and Ljajic – and fallen down in every way with all of them. And we’re for some reason just relying on the fact that it’s some bizarre United sin to criticise Ryan Giggs, instead of realising that Giggsy is no longer reliable enough to be a first team regular – leaving us with NO ONE that can play a very important position in our first XI. That is a failing of the scouts, the coaching staff and, in the end, Fergie.
December 4th, 2009 at 11:18
[...] Red Rants talk about the Ljajic deal. [...]
December 4th, 2009 at 11:20
09:51 Mike has just been asked about why Serbian youngster Adem Ljajic is no longer joining the club. Apparently the club were unable to gain a work permit for Ljajic in time for when they had to make a decision about whether or not to sign him. He also added that money was not an issue. (GT)
(from this morning’s press conference)
December 4th, 2009 at 11:27
Red Tan, first off, there is NO way fergie would walk away, honorably or not. He would be the first to secure a future for a club that reflects his life. I do not understand everything about the Ljajic issue but I am not going to buy in to conspiracy theories just yet. I still think we will have a better answer to the whole thing only in the summer transfer window. As far as the Ronaldo money going to the transfer you have quoted, the club has a policy of transfer Vs wages, this has been a practice for a few years now. A club like ours has a lot more sources of revenue than transfer fees. To suggest that we are using the Ronaldo money to pay interest is very silly. Revenue from streams like sponsors, tickets and merchandise are huge, not to mention winnings! Yes, the Glazer situation is something that i have never liked, but i understand that business will be business. I have never gone to a game so i cannot talk about the ticket prices but as far as trophies go, we have had a damn good run and the last transfer window apart the Glazers have not given a cause of complaint, yet. We can only wait and see how the summer pans out. With the futures of a few of the seniors and the ability of a few younger players in question, the “will we, won’t we?” can start again.
December 4th, 2009 at 11:36
@elvido: How do you know this as a fact, 2 years ago he said he would probably retire in the next 3 years and not announce it after what happened the last time he did.
United gain money other than transfer fees. WOW. This is news to me. I thought my ticket money went to some god in the sky
December 4th, 2009 at 11:55
@Beachryan: It’s very odd they would cite work permit when they gave a different reason in their official statement yesterday. I feel this very dubious.
December 4th, 2009 at 12:01
@Red Ranter: I agree, I still do not understand why we claimed to have signed him if we only had an option. I do go back to my original point though. Is it in the commercial intersts of the club to tell the truth.
December 4th, 2009 at 12:05
I have to say I’m really concerned about United’s approach towards young players right now. These are people not just assets. It’s clear that this hasn’t been handled well at all.
On the money front – United has rolled over most of it’s interest payments up to this summer. that’s why the debt has been growing and rapidly.
Will be interesting to see if/when they release the next set of accounts whether the club actually starts paying down the debt. If not now, when? It’s not as if the banks aren’t happy taking 60+ million a year in interest but the capital does need to be paid down at some point.
December 4th, 2009 at 12:27
@Red Tan: I think the quote was ‘I’m not going to still be doing this at 70. I owe it to my wife!’ He’s 68 this month. If we win the league this season, which is not beyond the realms of possibility…. I can see him riding off into the sunset having knocked Liverpool off their fucking perch. Retiring as the greatest manager of all time.
After that however, we may be screwed if all our fears about the Glazers are confirmed. We could end up being Liverpool… a big fat football joke.
“Remember when Man Utd were winning trophies? They’ll win the league this year tho… it’s their year… haven’t won it for 20 years… Must piss them off that Citeh have overtaken their Champions League record….”
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH.
December 4th, 2009 at 12:32
@Red Ranter: I agree, I still do not understand why we claimed to have signed him if we only had an option. I do go back to my original point though. Is it in the commercial intersts of the club to tell the truth.
@Traverse:
Leeds?
December 4th, 2009 at 12:39
now phelan’s said it, and changed the story, people will be checking to see if the permit story is bollocks or not, and it IS checkable, so that’ll soon be found out as a lie (if it is)
and also, the fact that an article yesterday in the guardian, http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/dec/03/manchester-united-adem-ljajic-transfer
starts with the doom filled line, “Manchester United’s American owners have terminated an agreement to sign Adem Ljajic” does NOT fill me with hope that it was (a)work permit related, or (b)a decision made by SAF.
the ONLY redeeming part of all this is that at least some of us didn’t bend over and spread ‘em, to welcome these parasites into the club, unlike our ‘friends’ down the east lancs road.
that doesn’t make me feel better though.
December 4th, 2009 at 12:43
According to sources within Carrington, they dodnt consider Llajic to be any better than 6 or 7 of the youngesters we currently have. Pogba, Petrucci, Cleveley, Cofe to name a few are all far better players.
There is also concern about being able to develop as a Prem league player, as Tosic has struggled to make the grade and to acquire the physical attributes that are needed.
The key factor ow, will be who signs Llajic and what he goes onto achieve. Given that a top draw midfield player would cost you £30 million, the fee for Llajic wasnt really very high, given most of it was achievement based.
December 4th, 2009 at 13:00
[...] Rant – United’s “financial crisis” as Ljaji? deal called off Red Rants – Ljaji? transfer about face is a strange one United Youth – United pull plug on Ljaji? [...]
December 4th, 2009 at 13:27
@algernon radish: Partizan themselves are saying that it is A WORK PERMIT issue that has caused the problem. And as you say it is easy to check out, so why would United lie about it in front of the world? Maybe United were having 2nd thoughts anyway about the lad, and the failure to obtain a work permit in time for January gave the club a GET OUT card!
December 4th, 2009 at 13:30
It did seem a lot of money but to say he wasn’t physical enough is odd wasn’t he was 6ft tall?
The real reason is what I have been saying all along, WE ARE SKINT.
December 4th, 2009 at 13:31
@Traverse: The fact that SAF is mentioning he might like now to be involved with the GB Olympic soccer team, makes me truly think you might be on to something, with the SAF hanging up his boots thing! We will see in time eh?
December 4th, 2009 at 13:36
If Adem wasn’t good enough… i dread to think how bad Tosic really is…
December 4th, 2009 at 13:45
@CraigMc: No that was his agent.
Here’s the whole thing and it mucks things up entirely:
Ljajic’s agent: “As far as I know, the only problem is the work permit. Manchester can solve this quickly. Journalists called me, asking what was happening, but I am confident that everything will be OK at best and that from January Ljajic will be officially a Manchester United player.”
Partizan President, before United released the statement: “Maybe the news came because Manchester United is in financial crisis, but believe me we did not get anything official.”
United’s statement yesterday:
“We had an option to buy the player but, having closely monitored his development over past 12 months, and taken into the consideration the young players emerging through the ranks, we have chosen not to pursue the transfer.”
Phelan today (brings up the work permit and actually contradicts the “he’s not good enough” official line):
“We have a platform that allows young players to develop and get into the first-team. We looked at Adem and he has the potential to do that. The club were unable to gain a work permit for Ljajic in time for when they had to make a decision about whether or not to sign him”
So
December 4th, 2009 at 13:54
God knows what the truth surrounding this story is. I do not believe the work permit story. When we want a player we have the clout to get a permit. We got Anderson his permit despite doubt that it would go through. We are using the work permit as an excuse to save face.
I am sure the truth is that we did not want him (either for financial reasons or because on closer inspection we didn’t feel he would improve the squad) so we did not try hard enough to get the permit so the permit fell through.
I am not that sad. I would rather we spent £10-15 million on someone who could improve the squad TODAY because we have enough youngsters on the sidelines of the team.
Obviously Ljajic wasn’t good enough to walk into the first team. In my book that means he wasn’t all that good in the first place. Or at best he is going to be a late bloomer and a club of our stature cannot afford to give youngsters the experience they need. Look at players like Ronaldo and Rooney. At the age of 18 they were already full internationals and walked into the team. Those are the sort of youngsters I want to buy.
If money is an issue Id rather we spend what little money we have on proven players who can make an impact. Paying for potential is a luxury we can no longer afford. We have enough average players and promising youngsters. I want some good players who can improve our first team.
December 4th, 2009 at 13:55
@donibrasco: My point wasn’t about him being worth the 25 for i believe Rooney isn’t worth that much either,its just the simple point that the way we are treating players is of great concern.
Tevez had an asking price that we knew and Fegie kept appearing and telling us that the deal was in place,until the last moment when he talked about his price being too high as if he was surprised.@Red Tan: In that same spirit,should we take away Fegie’s success and praise the owners for it? Do we believe that Fergie has no power over who he brings in and who goes?
December 4th, 2009 at 14:05
Hrm, beginning to sound to me like we would have bought him in January had we gotten the work permit, didn’t, decided we need someone in January and couldn’t wait X months to get him in, so decided to terminate. Wouldn’t surprise me if that was teh only real ‘allowed’ termination clause on his contract (subject to work permit)
If that’s what happened, it should only mean that we’re taking that money and buying someone else in January. If that happens, I’m alright with it. If it doesn’t, I go back to yesterday’s obscenities.
December 4th, 2009 at 15:40
@Beachryan: That’s a good point. The only way out of a deal would be a work permit issue. We’d signed him subject to a work permit and loaned him back to Partizan…. Although it does seem strange that we can get a work permit for Pogba and not Ljajic…
December 4th, 2009 at 15:40
@donibrasco: not at all it is obvious Fergie decides who he wants and the board get who they can for him. Take this summer for example. Fergie has never been scared to break transfer records before or to pay over the odds in order to get his man. I think Fergie would happily spend 30, 40, 50 million on a player. Why wouldn’t he
An interesting post earlier mentioned how repayment on our annual interest payments have been held back to next year. We owe a great deal of money in repayments and have spent large amounts in the transfer market over the last few years.. So far I would say very little of that spend has represented value for money or would represent a profit if the player was sold today.
December 4th, 2009 at 16:06
If you look at his face… Ljajic does look like someone who would have sold alot of shirts….
And with potential that i’m sure he has… He would have made it…
I was looking forward to him when we sold Ronaldo….
This stinks… I mean… He Would have Sold Shirts!
December 4th, 2009 at 16:29
Rooney isn’t worth £25m????? Fuck me if he was on the market at that sort of figure we would sell him five times over, Tevez isn’t fit to lace his boots jeez.
December 4th, 2009 at 16:38
Adem Ljajic
December 4th, 2009 at 17:02
While this has all been a PR sh*t-storm, no one has really mentioned so far that it’s possible this is just a temporary setback. I’d of hoped we’d communicate it better, but it’s possible we couldn’t get him his work permit in January, but we’ll try again in the summer. Probably just me being optimistic, but wouldn’t be quite as bad if that was the case.
On a side note, has anyone actually seen Tom Cleverly at Watford this year? He’s done really well, something like 6 goals in 12 games, all from the ride side of midfield, which is impressive in a crap team. I’d love an actual opinion though?
December 4th, 2009 at 17:42
Why pay 10 million for potentially nothing? When Adem is able to get Work Permit (when he gets older) and he keeps up his potential and progress, then I see us signing him. But there is no reason to spend 10 million now if we cannot get him before the summer at the earliest, when we need to improve some areas this January…
That is, if we do not purchase one player of potential this January, then I greatly fear our financial status… otherwise, Adem did not get a work permit and all is back to normal for me.
December 4th, 2009 at 17:43
@Beachryan: I agree with you 100% on this topic!
December 4th, 2009 at 17:44
@Footy4Eddy: I never gave you props for your 1-man show yesterday/two days ago, when you had a conversation with yourself…. pretty funny stuff!
December 4th, 2009 at 17:47
@Tufty: 10 million for an 18 year old 2nd stringer who may not arrive in January?? That is 7 million more than obertan and 8 million for than Dame (from Molde).
December 4th, 2009 at 17:50
Hey dude just to confirm something, Phelan said “he dont think money is an issue” Thats the words he quoted. But i am not an english teach but tell me something, isn’t “I dont think money is an issue” and “Money is NOT an issue” two different things??? I still feel something is wrong, because of what Phelan said and then this is a different story to the story that was told yesterday??hmmmmm, please reply guys and tell me what you think?? Bless!
December 4th, 2009 at 17:51
@algernon radish:
1. Where you get the figures from 75, 75, 150, and 150 million in 2012,2013,2014, and 2015
2. Since you have been a ticket holder for the past 30 years, can you tell me about the season ticket prices over the past 30, 20, or 10 years.. I am unable to find this info anywhere online.
December 4th, 2009 at 18:14
the work permit thing could be him not being able to qualify for the special talent exception…i.e. the boy wasn’t progressing as expected. it doesn’t sound like 2 excuses…it sounds like 2 solid reasons that back up themselves
December 4th, 2009 at 18:43
@[OPTI]Madschester United
Why thank you. I was pretty bored, and as usual I didn`t wanna sleep, so I thought I`d just waste some time to come up with some comedian goods.
Thankfully it was funny, instead of pathetic. 
December 4th, 2009 at 18:43
@[OPTI]Madschester United: And how much did we pay for Anderson?
PS: Bringing in Andy’s name hoping you are not one of them who think Andy is a godsend gift.
December 4th, 2009 at 18:57
I have a confession to make. For some while I have noticed one of the guys on this blog more and more for each day that have passed. I have noticed that we have similar interests and humor, and even though I have never met him face to face I believe that he is really sexy. His good looks are viewable from the way he writes, and his smart views. I don`t know whether he is a good football like me, but something in my heart tells me we are very similar as human beings. And I will admit this in front the whole world, on a Manchester United blog, on the internet…
My dear readers…
I want to ask a certain person on here… Who goes by the name of Merlinus…
Will you marry me?
The way you speak of Anderson has won me over, I am in love with you. Will you share your life with me so we can speak about Anderson in peace and love? It would be a dream come true…
And Onkar, the lad who fixed us up, will you be my best man?
December 4th, 2009 at 19:36
England are lucky…They got the best group
December 4th, 2009 at 20:02
Everyone needs to relax…Ljajic was a promising prospect but this was before we signed Valencia and Obertan. With Nani, Park and Hargreaves coming back, he’s simply a surplus to our needs. This is a good buisness decision- there are certainly better ways to spend 10 mil.
December 4th, 2009 at 20:04
@Footy4Eddy: I guess that means I’m not invited to the wedding eh?
December 4th, 2009 at 20:05
@Footy4Eddy: Very creepy mate, very creepy. Gives me the heebeejeebee’s
December 4th, 2009 at 20:11
As far as I am concerned, there really is no true group of death although I am sure Portugal will feel differently.
I think most of the groupings are fair and every seeded team seems to have a grouping that suits them. As usual Italy and Spain get easy groups but I also think that England, Germany and England did well in the groupings. Certainly well enough to qualify for the next round.
December 4th, 2009 at 20:19
@Grognard
Of course you are invited, you will be the priest!
December 4th, 2009 at 21:22
@Red Ranter: could be a combo of the two he wasnt good enough to buy without a work permit at the time they were forced to make a final decision.
Maybe the kid really just isnt good enough? I still think we have some time to wait and see if were skint yet. and ill reserve any overly-impassioned, vitriolic tirades against the glazers until said time arrives. the full 90 min is not up yet and so many fans are booing already.
December 4th, 2009 at 21:47
@colver: +1 true that
December 4th, 2009 at 22:26
@Red Tan: Finally there are people on this blog who are speaking my language and who feel my hatred and wrath towards the Glazer’s. Finally the Kingdom of Mancunians is waking up to the reality of the situation. Can it be that far off then when we all band together to force the Glazer’s out of town? Nobody wants to be part of something where they are hated and feel outsiders. A lot of harsh treatment and shows of protest against them will get them to sell. Nothing else will. The must go and go ASAP.
December 4th, 2009 at 22:33
@Red Ranter: They are becoming a PR nightmare. At best the Glazer’s must hire a savvy PR man who knows how to handle questions to the media and how to publish official statements from the club without them changing every 24 hours. This is a case where not everyone in the organization is on the same page. I’ve seen it work it’s ugly side many times when I was working for the government here in Canada. Only solution was that everything that comes out from the team has to go through one individual who checks for quality, and consistency. I mean they are a bloody football team and instead they are acting like the Labor Party after a bad day in Caucus. Shameful and sad really and yet more evidence of what I have been screaming about for years now. The Glazer’s are out of touch with the common man and all they are concerned with is fleecing this club for as much as possible and then dumping it as well as the debt on to someone else because they know it will still sell. In the mean time, they are sucking up all the profits while making the minimum payment required to the banks for the loans and offering the club very little to operate on.
December 4th, 2009 at 22:38
@Traverse: Ask yourself this, what great manager out there will take a job when he knows the owners are slowly but surely sabotaging the the team and where very little is offered to that manager for player transfers? Mourinho wants the job but not if he finds out that all he has to work with ten to fifteen million pounds for players. Only a desperado will be willing to take the job under the Glazer’s regime. I for the life of me am amazed that Fergie hasn’t quit out of frustration. His loyalty to them is a real enigma to me which always leaves me with a little bit of optimism that I could be wrong and the problem all along has not been lack of available funds, but Fergie’s Scottish frugality and inability to judge talent. If that is the case, then no problem, but I just don’t believe it is. Too many things have happened that point a finger at the Glazer’s and a depleted bank account.
December 4th, 2009 at 22:39
@Red Tan: Is it in the teams best interest to tell a bold face lie that every one else can sense and that they do a terrible job concealing?
December 4th, 2009 at 22:46
@Beachryan: Many teams have problems getting players work permits. They all come out and say his transfer is complete pending a work permit. That makes everyone know that the only thing that can derail this is a work permit. And when was the last time we saw a player turned down because he never got a work permit? I certainly don’t recall. The work permit angle is complete total bull shit of the first order. Manchester united are acting and running their organization like a bunch of ass clowns.
December 4th, 2009 at 22:50
@Footy4Eddy: I’ve committed too many sins to be a priest, even at this wedding. Besides, how could I possibly join two Anderson fans together in happy matrimony and still live with myself? I’d only preside at weddings for Ballack and Riquelme fans.
December 4th, 2009 at 23:01
For some change
http://timesonline.typepad.com/thegame/2009/12/tony-cascarinos-premier-league-team-of-the-decade.html
December 4th, 2009 at 23:19
@Grognard: what great manager out there will take a job when he knows the owners are slowly but surely sabotaging the the team and where very little is offered to that manager for player transfers? Mourinho wants the job but not if he finds out that all he has to work with ten to fifteen million pounds for players.
Most great managers will take the United job if it were offered. Glazers or no Glazers.
December 4th, 2009 at 23:22
@Grognard: Can it be that far off then when we all band together to force the Glazer’s out of town?
Certainly far-fetched exaggeration given the circumstances. They couldn’t drive Mike Ashley out for all his woeful management of the club. And we are a million times better off to induce such a fan revolt. I don’t think a revolt is the way forward, as much as we’re unhappy with the way things are run.
As I’ve said before, the whole “Glazers are evil” is well-known to all United fans. And nothing will happen as long as Ferguson holds the side together – even if we get a new manager and if he happens to keep the side up and running.
Fans care about trophies at the end of the day.
December 5th, 2009 at 0:34
@Red Ranter: Unless they are Liverpool-fans… then they care about trying to win trophies
Or City fans, then they care about posters, over-paying and looking up to big brother United!
December 5th, 2009 at 0:45
I can’t believe this. Just 24hrs ago I was saying EXACTLY the same thing United Rant (last link) are talking about. The exact same points. Sometimes on this blog people can make you feel like you are talking nonsense and being melodramatic but it’s encouraging to see that other people see things the way you do. Clearly, this whole issue is a big screw up on our part. A lot of folk are just trying to play things down. There is no way and I mean no way this is about the kid’s progress. How shameless can we be really? How low and cold can we get diverting the heat on the kid by claiming he didn’t make the grade knowing fully well it ain’t nothing to do with that? Pathetic and at the same time tasteless and classless. We have recently acquired a history of treating players like rubbish. In fact it’s not that recent after all since Ferguson has his own history of poor treatment of players. Ince, Becks, Forlan, RVN, Tevez, Nani. But with the exception of Nani this treatment has never been extended to very young players. This is a new phenomenon. 18 bloody years old and apparently he was still reassuring his fans on his Facebook page that the deal was still a go since he had not received any news of that nature from United. That was yesterday morning. He was saying not to worry it’s all media talk and he was gonna be a United player in less than a month. How disgusting is that. Sick. If I’m a young player and I’ve got Madrid, Arsenal, Barcelona, Milan and United tracking me then definitely United will be my last”all-else-has-failed-incl-West Ham” option. Especially given how more experienced youngsters like Nani etc still struggle to get into the team ahead of golden oldies like Paul Scholes and esp Gary Neville. My advisors will passionately advise against going to United and rightly so. How some continue to see all things rosy is beyond me. Open your eyes and look beyond the sainthood of Sir Alex Ferguson and see the reality
December 5th, 2009 at 0:50
@owen: What a garbage team… Why is Gerrard on team of the decade when he won 0 premier leagues and Scholes and Giggs are on the bench or missing all together and have 6 .
December 5th, 2009 at 0:53
@[OPTI]Madschester United: It’s Tony Cascarino. ’nuff said.
December 5th, 2009 at 1:10
Now having said that I’d like you all to know that I’m not blaming the manager here. I’m just saying all should look beyond their perception of “always right” Ferguson and attach the same respect to every Tom etc. If Ferguson is behind all this then great shame on him but I seriously doubt this was his decision. Everything and I mean everything (to those who are not naive that is) points to a last minute financial decision and nothing else. Not talent, not work permit(which was a PR disaster on our part by the way) and most definitely not our current squad. Dollars and cents or rather sterling pounds and pennies. That’s why I really doubt this was sanctioned by Ferguson.
December 5th, 2009 at 1:15
@Jay wire: “Having said that” eh?
heh may I point you out to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhyGlGgXMxY
December 5th, 2009 at 1:21
@[OPTI]Madschester United: I am not familiar with him outside of that article…
December 5th, 2009 at 1:41
@[OPTI]Madschester United:
the figures can be found in the details of the PIK loans in the Red Football accounts. not sure where (online) atm if i’m honest, but i’ve read them plenty of times.
and ST prices have gone up from £20 in 77, to £50-£80 ish in the early 80s, to £100-£150 early 90s, £300-£500 in 96, £400-£600 late 90s and it’s now £800 ish, some are a bit cheaper but the ACS screwed a lot of people into paying more anyway.
i’m well aware that the previous board weren’t shy in hiking prices way beyond inflation 10 years ago either, but the imposition of the ACS added to the constant rises has made it too much for a good few.
(not that it shows)
it makes no odds really, it’s either a bigger fatter sugar daddy, or, DOOM!
neither of which particularly appeals to me if i’m honest.
December 5th, 2009 at 1:46
@CraigMc:
as has been mentioned, his agent was the one who said it was work permit related.
partizan have ‘claimed’ that it’s cos we’re skint.
now they can’t know that for sure, but given the events of the last 48 hours, i know which side i’m tempted to believe.
December 5th, 2009 at 4:42
@Jay wire: He’s no bloody saint, he wouldn’t have won all those trophy’s if he was.
He’s as fallible as you and I and has certainly got elements in his personality that work against him.
Let’s not forget, he has a hard time controlling his rage, and lets also not forget he has a hard time controlling his passion!!
The likes of him has not been seen in recent memory – his success, his endurance, his steady handness, all have no matching comparisons!! He wins, he loses, he excels, he fucks up. He’s just like you and me, only he wins more than he loses, and excels more than he fucks up. He’s not a god, nor is he a devil. He just happens to be in charge of a team that we all feel so passionate about, and for so many years.
The Llajik thing is just piffle. If he changed his mind and he felt the kid wasn’t worth the money anymore, I’ll back his judgement. TBH I could give a rats arse about 18 year old’s that may or may not be the next coming. If he’s that good, Barca or RM or Chelski will pick him up, and his life will be just fine.
December 5th, 2009 at 4:56
@Red Ranter: I lived in Edmonton my friend and I’ve seen it happen with the Edmonton Oilers former owner Peter Pocklington. After numerous threats to his life and constant harassment from people on the street and at games, he finally got the hint, sold all his businesses and got the hell out of Dodge. Nobody wants to be where they are not wanted and despised. As for it happening, yes it won’t happen as long as Fergie is running things. But what about after that. More and more bad publicity for the team and more and more rumors of poor financial standing is going to make many prospective managers think twice about coming. Yes the job is highly prestigious but the present ownership is like pouring salt brine on chocolate sunday.
The Glazer’s running of this team is enough to turn many off the job because no manager likes to manage with one or both hands tied behind their backs. And you think little of the passion and the commitment fans have for their team if you think they won’t revolt if things get really out of hand. We are not Newcastle, we are United and we are all used to a specific standard and a pride and heritage for this team needs to be maintained and saved. If we start to implode on the field as well as off, look for fans to finally get pissed off enough to act. It might not look like it now but then again, nobody thought things would look like they do now just three years ago. Unlike Newcastle, this team’s fans have pride and have been spoilt on winning. Anything less will get them to revolt. I’m not talking pitchforks and axes, I’m talking protests and staying away from OT.
December 5th, 2009 at 5:05
@Jay wire: It’s amazing how everybody can bash us for our beliefs and then when things actually start to happen the way we predict, they just go on without ever alluding to the fact that Jay Wire or Grognard or Redrich or some others were right all along. How many times do I have to be proven right before the abuse I get stops? And Jay you got it right also but did you get a pat on the shoulder and acknowledgment from the masses over your comments which came previous to the Ljacic affair? Nobody wants to admit we are right when we are because nobody likes egg on their face. They call me arrogant or full of myself when all I am trying to do is make them see that other minority opinions are often right and need to be respected because of the fact they were well thought out and based on an intelligent analysis of the situation. Well done mate and kudos for getting it spot on. Admiral Fergie has been running a shoddy ship of late and playing favorites with the crew while forcing many good hands to walk the plank. And as if Fergie’s treatment of players wasn’t bad enough, now we have the owners pulling the plug on a confirmed transfer because of financial problems. How many more things do we need to predict before we start getting a little credit? Man it sucks to be a United supporter right now, regardless of the wins.
December 5th, 2009 at 5:11
@[OPTI]Madschester United: Gerrard is on the team because he has been an awesome player for Liverpool in this decade. Love him or hate him (and it’s clear that everyone on here hates him), the fact remains that Gerrard is a fantastic talent and has been super clutch for his team. It is a team game mate and one man cannot win it all for them yet he has brought them an FA Cup single handedly and saved their bacon and brought them a European Cup as well. I wouldn’t say he was completely shut out of trophies this decade. I don’t like him but he is a player I have always admired for his skill and ability to be clutch.
December 5th, 2009 at 5:14
@Jay wire: I agree. Everything points to the Glazer’s and Fergie not showing up for the press conference may be a case of he being pissed off with the situation enough to not be bothered for fear of exploding. I think he has tolerated about as much as he is going to take from the Glazer’s and this January will tell us if he will be returning next season. If he gets the few players he wants, he’ll be back. If he doesn’t get the money, I think he will finish out the season and retire because you cannot run a club like this and have zero money to play with.
December 5th, 2009 at 5:19
@algernon radish: Thanks! I will be looking for the PIK and Red Football details online…
20 to 800+ pounds in 30 years is a “wee” bit above inflation eh… in fact, 850 is one month salary for me. I can sure understand how people may have to give up on season tickets if the increase continues… maybe that is what they want since individual tickets yield larger profits.
December 5th, 2009 at 5:19
@Redrich: Got to love your honesty mate. I to couldn’t care less about the kids as most of them are woefully overrated and very few will ever amount to a hill of beans. Fergie is far from perfect but who will argue over his success. My concerns regarding Ljacic has nothing to do with the kid but what this kind of thing does tot he team’s reputation and the perception of the team. For em it is making me think that we are even more broke than i bitch about week after week. It’s got me in a panic. Right now things are so bad as i see it that Fergie and his genius is the only thing keeping us afloat as he is masking the situation as best he can.
December 5th, 2009 at 5:32
oh yeah, forgot to mention. Denmark, Holland, Japan, Cameroon and USA, England, Algeria, Slovenia are the groups I will follow most closely… and what about group of death(s) G (brazil) and D (germany)?
Good stuff for this summer. Can’t Wait!
December 5th, 2009 at 5:33
@Grognard: Listen mate, nothing is proven yet, but the writing has been on the wall for some time – and for that, folks either cant be bothered to read the wall, or are too busy reading an imaginary wall!!
I’m just not interested in the fantasy of what was, or maybe could have happened, I just want to see things as they are!!
If we are broke, and the likelihood is the Glazers are hurting big time, lets put that out in the open and deal with it like grown adults. What is much less appealing to me, is this constant sniping about the possibilities that the responsibility for all our troubles falls squarely on the head of innocent parties!!
December 5th, 2009 at 5:46
@Grognard: Mate, if we were in control it would be nirvana at OT. All that we speak, and all that we preach would be ours to dole out!!
However, (and you probably knew that was the next word!) the best we can do, in reality, is to shine some light on what is happening with our club. Form solid opinions, based on the facts that are available, and to object and support as the occasion rises.
If there’s anything else, I’d be happy to sign up!!
December 5th, 2009 at 6:50
@Red Ranter: But he put out a balanced team.I know keano not being there will open up some debate,but the Pires selectoin over Giggs,outside OT,will appear the best option,but i know many United fans will not agree.
Giggs while having played at a top level for most of his life,has never been as consistent as Pires was.Easily the most threatening winger at his time in England.
December 5th, 2009 at 6:56
@donibrasco: On second thoughts since it wa the best team of this decade (ie, the 2000s, I can concede Pires over Giggs.) But I’d want Makelele in one of the MF spots merely because of how important he was to Chelsea.
December 5th, 2009 at 7:20
@Redrich: What’s so frustrating is that we the loyal supporters are kept so in the dark. I’d like to be wrong and i’d love to be shown all the money Fergie has to spend but the longer they keep shut a veil over their business, the more and more people like myself will continue to slash at that veil hoping to catch a glimpse of what’s happening inside. It may not be our business but we care and we support and for that, we must be respected by the team. Right now we all should feel like Rodney Dangerfield.
December 5th, 2009 at 7:36
@Grognard: Paying supporters deserve to know what happens in the club, but most clubs these days are shut shops for many years. It’s frustrating but I’ve long made my peace with that. Screaming at them for it will make them look at us like a doctor would at a sane guy wrongly shut up in an asylum.
I’ve stopped going on about the Glazers a long time ago, precisely because of this. And a lot of people I’m sure see the writing on the wall, but also understand that as long as Fergie’s at the helm, it’s always going to be a waste of our energies.
The Glazers live miles away, have never given a fuck about those in “MUST” who have actually lobbied against the Glazers in tangible ways ever since the takeover. You think they are going to bother about us letting our blood pressure off the scales in an internet blog? No – as much as we’d like to think our humble little blog in the corner of the internet matters. Being invested as a fan in modern football has become a one-sided relationship. The sooner we come to terms with that the better it is for our health.
Till then it’s a world of hurt for everyone involved.
December 5th, 2009 at 10:01
@Red Ranter: Veira and Keane were as if not more important to their respective sides, look at Arsenal and ourselves now both sides have not replaced either player and it shows, Chelsea have in my eyes with a better option Essien.
December 5th, 2009 at 10:05
@Red Ranter: Also Giggs has to in over Pires in my eyes Giggs is the best United player of all time, maybe not with ability as we have had better players but with the way he plays and how he represents everything good about our club.
December 5th, 2009 at 10:12
@Stephen: In the 90s I’d put Keane and Giggs in. But I think 2000-2010 both Keane and Giggsy’s influence waned in comparison to other players in their position.
You must make a distinction between all time and this decade.
December 5th, 2009 at 10:20
@Red Ranter: Keane was very influencial in the early 2000’s and Giggs is still producing now and is the current PFA player of the year.
December 5th, 2009 at 11:19
@Grognard: It’s not Fergie’s loyalty to them it’s his loyalty to us and the team. He knows that when he’s gone we’re fucked, so he’s staying around and biting his lip for as long as possible for the good of United.
December 5th, 2009 at 11:43
@Red Ranter: Actually describes 99% of YOUR opinion posts.
December 5th, 2009 at 11:57
@Jay wire: Um, ok.
PS: Just so you know, my post wasn’t directed at your comment at all, but the phrase just reminded me of the episode I’d watched yesterday. (A completely unrelated comment meant as a joke.)
Of course, if you really meant that, disregard the PS part of it.
December 5th, 2009 at 12:03
We should look forward to an exciting match at West Ham today. Zola has said he is setting up his team not to defend, but to outscore United. If that’s the case, I think we’ll murder them.
December 5th, 2009 at 12:05
@Footy4Eddy: lol….
(RR my smileys are not working)… oopppss an issue with my browser..
December 5th, 2009 at 12:06
@Footy4Eddy:
December 5th, 2009 at 12:07
@Grognard: I guess ticket to NORWAY is on its way buddy…
December 5th, 2009 at 12:09
Preview up.
December 5th, 2009 at 12:11
@Redrich: That’s why I said I believe SAF has very little to do with this whole thing. I’m not questioning his worth. I was talking of how cynical this whole thing looks and how it is irresponsible behaviour that should only be reserved for the likes of Real Maggots FC.
Now if you think “this whole Ljajic thing is just piffle” that’s your opinion. You obviously go with anything you suppose the manager decides right or wrong. Reports are already coming in of how the youngster has been affected psychologically with his agent saying “this will change the course of our lives” since they had already focused everything on what was a “done deal”. It’s pretty bad. Platini and Blatter have done a great work at tainting our reputation with their claims of us taking advantage of young rising stars. Carlos Alberto Parreira called us “rapists” when we got the Da Silvas. I know, as you indicated yourself,that you wouldn’t care much for the kid and what happens to him,but at least you should be genuinely concerned about our battered reputation. Think of it really,we have successfully shot ourselves in the foot for the upteenth time with our recent conduct.I mean in all honesty,our treatment of players and especially young players of late has been atrocious and we will get what is coming to us for it. With our recent dealings with players like Rossi(though it was not entirely our fault),Nani,Tevez and now Ljajic,the rest of the world is not going to look for explanations like we do. They will just shrug their shoulders and say”look what did you expect.It’s ManUtd after all,that’s what they do. Ask Ramsey.” Say the next genuine Messi comes along. Do you think we would look very attractive to him? I think not.
So whichever way you look at it,whether like some of us who feel for the kid or like you whose only concern is what’s best for the club,this is still one major screw up
December 5th, 2009 at 12:28
@Jay wire: Regardless of what the agents say regarding his being affected psychologically (personally I think he would have been shocked, but psychological damage is most likely exaggeration), however, I think it’s a major goof up from a PR angle by United. And they’ve served a whole load of BS to cover it up.
December 5th, 2009 at 14:26
anyone wanting to read a bit more about the debt, and the PIK loans, read this article in the times today.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/manchester_united/article6945421.ece
December 5th, 2009 at 19:29
@Traverse: You are probably right about that.
December 5th, 2009 at 19:31
@Onkar:
December 5th, 2009 at 19:38
@algernon radish: That sadly confirms everything I have been saying on this blog about this subject for well over a year. We are in a deep sea of doo doo and it’s only going to get better unless the fans revolt. How do you revolt and get the Glazer’s attention? Stay away from games and stop buying merchandise. Now how many have the balls for that?