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	<title>Comments on: Luck, Toil and A Bloodied Head as United March On</title>
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		<title>By: JB</title>
		<link>http://redrants.com/luck-toil-and-a-bloodied-head-as-united-march-on/comment-page-1/#comment-4932</link>
		<dc:creator>JB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Oct 2007 16:57:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redrants.com/luck-toil-and-a-bloodied-head-as-united-march-on/#comment-4932</guid>
		<description>For once an international break is greatly received as we are beginning to run out of bodies.  Two weeks off will hopefully give a few players a chance to recover.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For once an international break is greatly received as we are beginning to run out of bodies.  Two weeks off will hopefully give a few players a chance to recover.</p>
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		<title>By: Grognard</title>
		<link>http://redrants.com/luck-toil-and-a-bloodied-head-as-united-march-on/comment-page-1/#comment-4928</link>
		<dc:creator>Grognard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Oct 2007 16:17:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redrants.com/luck-toil-and-a-bloodied-head-as-united-march-on/#comment-4928</guid>
		<description>Thanks Millz for pointing out the rules to me because I suspected that the very same thing.  Remember that what I read was that he had a hairline fracture.  Usually a very light cast is placed on an arm for a fracture where the bone has not been displaced.  The rules on the other hand forbid the use of casts so then I totally understand why he can&#039;t play.  I realize that footy is not American football and to be honest, a different type of athlete plays the American game.  Much bulkier and and physically stronger.  Still I found it frustrating because I cannot get over the way players played the game 15 to 20 years ago and beyond.  I appreciate you clearing that up for me and thus ending the controversy that I started.

And JB I also respect your point greatly.  To be honest, a few years back a good friend of mine fractured his cheek bone playing basketball when he received a rather flagrant elbow.
Two days later his face was very swollen and balack and blue while his eye was bloodshot.  
John Terry&#039;s face didn&#039;t look all that bad although I could tell there was a depression in his cheek at the time of the injury.  Still, I wouldn&#039;t put the tactics you talk about past Chelsea because they are very astute at gamesmanship.  I still do be believe however that Terry is a real gamer because he does seem tough as nails, to me any anyway.  

I am writing this right after United&#039;s victory against Wigan and I am concerned about all our injuries today, especially Vidic.  He had quite a bit of swelling on his cheek.  I hope he didn&#039;t fracture it.  I kind of think he didn&#039;t because it didn&#039;t look depressed, but then again, it still could be a fracture.  Apparently he was seeing stars so I am worried.
And yet again Balsa Boy Saha gets injured again before the match even started.  Enough already!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Millz for pointing out the rules to me because I suspected that the very same thing.  Remember that what I read was that he had a hairline fracture.  Usually a very light cast is placed on an arm for a fracture where the bone has not been displaced.  The rules on the other hand forbid the use of casts so then I totally understand why he can&#8217;t play.  I realize that footy is not American football and to be honest, a different type of athlete plays the American game.  Much bulkier and and physically stronger.  Still I found it frustrating because I cannot get over the way players played the game 15 to 20 years ago and beyond.  I appreciate you clearing that up for me and thus ending the controversy that I started.</p>
<p>And JB I also respect your point greatly.  To be honest, a few years back a good friend of mine fractured his cheek bone playing basketball when he received a rather flagrant elbow.<br />
Two days later his face was very swollen and balack and blue while his eye was bloodshot.<br />
John Terry&#8217;s face didn&#8217;t look all that bad although I could tell there was a depression in his cheek at the time of the injury.  Still, I wouldn&#8217;t put the tactics you talk about past Chelsea because they are very astute at gamesmanship.  I still do be believe however that Terry is a real gamer because he does seem tough as nails, to me any anyway.  </p>
<p>I am writing this right after United&#8217;s victory against Wigan and I am concerned about all our injuries today, especially Vidic.  He had quite a bit of swelling on his cheek.  I hope he didn&#8217;t fracture it.  I kind of think he didn&#8217;t because it didn&#8217;t look depressed, but then again, it still could be a fracture.  Apparently he was seeing stars so I am worried.<br />
And yet again Balsa Boy Saha gets injured again before the match even started.  Enough already!!!</p>
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		<title>By: JB</title>
		<link>http://redrants.com/luck-toil-and-a-bloodied-head-as-united-march-on/comment-page-1/#comment-4911</link>
		<dc:creator>JB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Oct 2007 14:14:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redrants.com/luck-toil-and-a-bloodied-head-as-united-march-on/#comment-4911</guid>
		<description>Something I found on a forum earlier on:

Graham Poll on R5 this morning.

&quot;What would a referee do in a situation where John Terry requests permission to play in a mask?&quot;

&quot;I&#039;d ask whether we could wire his mouth shut as well&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Something I found on a forum earlier on:</p>
<p>Graham Poll on R5 this morning.</p>
<p>&#8220;What would a referee do in a situation where John Terry requests permission to play in a mask?&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;I&#8217;d ask whether we could wire his mouth shut as well&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: JB</title>
		<link>http://redrants.com/luck-toil-and-a-bloodied-head-as-united-march-on/comment-page-1/#comment-4872</link>
		<dc:creator>JB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Oct 2007 10:12:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redrants.com/luck-toil-and-a-bloodied-head-as-united-march-on/#comment-4872</guid>
		<description>The point is Grognard is that we do not know the severity of Terry&#039;s injury.  A player can have a hamstring injury but that does not mean the problem is the same.  Sometimes it is a tight hamstring which needs 3/4 days rest other times it is a full tear that leaves a player on crutches and out for 10 weeks, facing surgery.  It is just unusual that any time Terry has an injury the initial prognosis is as bad as it can get and then, lo and behold, he returns in a time consistent with a far less serious version of the injury.  

Once, maybe twice you could chalk it down to a players own willpower, strength, determination or whatever you want to call it.  However it happens so often that it suggests either Chelseaâ€™s medical department is incompetent and incapable of making an accurate diagnosis or a blue propaganda machine is running in the background.  Just because Terry loves playing football does not mean he can defy all medical logic every time he has an injury.  I&#039;m not trying to be bitter Grognard, I just don&#039;t believe every bit of bullshit Chelsea seem to peddle with regards to injuries.  

As an aside the reason why Carrick cannot wear a cast has probably been identified by Millz in his post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The point is Grognard is that we do not know the severity of Terry&#8217;s injury.  A player can have a hamstring injury but that does not mean the problem is the same.  Sometimes it is a tight hamstring which needs 3/4 days rest other times it is a full tear that leaves a player on crutches and out for 10 weeks, facing surgery.  It is just unusual that any time Terry has an injury the initial prognosis is as bad as it can get and then, lo and behold, he returns in a time consistent with a far less serious version of the injury.  </p>
<p>Once, maybe twice you could chalk it down to a players own willpower, strength, determination or whatever you want to call it.  However it happens so often that it suggests either Chelseaâ€™s medical department is incompetent and incapable of making an accurate diagnosis or a blue propaganda machine is running in the background.  Just because Terry loves playing football does not mean he can defy all medical logic every time he has an injury.  I&#8217;m not trying to be bitter Grognard, I just don&#8217;t believe every bit of bullshit Chelsea seem to peddle with regards to injuries.  </p>
<p>As an aside the reason why Carrick cannot wear a cast has probably been identified by Millz in his post.</p>
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		<title>By: Millz</title>
		<link>http://redrants.com/luck-toil-and-a-bloodied-head-as-united-march-on/comment-page-1/#comment-4870</link>
		<dc:creator>Millz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Oct 2007 09:03:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redrants.com/luck-toil-and-a-bloodied-head-as-united-march-on/#comment-4870</guid>
		<description>Grog, I greatly admire your ability to play an american football game with a broken appendige. That took tremendous commitment. I have lived here on the continent that is turned off by wimpy shit for my whole life and i know few people who would have considered you a pussy for not playing with a broken arm.

I wish that Carrick could play. Surely Sir Alex, the team doctors and physios, the equpment personel, and even Michael himself have exhausted all available options in the effort to get our only available holding midfielder on the pitch. No matter how much we&#039;d like him to carry on with this particular injury, the rules forbid it. 

The fourth of FIFA&#039;s Laws of the game (which can be read here: http://www.mccsiwakuni.com/docs/rsc/data/20061101171353fifarules.pdf) governs player&#039;s equipment. In regards to non basic equipment (anything but shirt, shorts, socks, shinpads or boots) it states, &quot;A player must not use equipment or wear anything that is dangerous to himself or another player.&quot; In specific regards to protective gear it says, &quot;Modern protective eqipment such as headgear, facemasks, knee and arm protectors made of soft, lightweight, padded material are not considered dangerous and are therefore permitted.&quot; The words soft, lightweight and padded are the most relevant to Carrick&#039;s situation. Obviously there is no suitable means of protecting Carrick&#039;s broken elbow that referees would approve of. Even Petr Cech&#039;s nerf-ball helmet was extensively scrutinized last year. I doubt that officials would approve of a hard cast when it considers leather bracelets, rubber bands, wedding rings, Scapulas and earrings potentially hazardous. 

Don&#039;t tell Cristiano Ronaldo about that earring thing though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grog, I greatly admire your ability to play an american football game with a broken appendige. That took tremendous commitment. I have lived here on the continent that is turned off by wimpy shit for my whole life and i know few people who would have considered you a pussy for not playing with a broken arm.</p>
<p>I wish that Carrick could play. Surely Sir Alex, the team doctors and physios, the equpment personel, and even Michael himself have exhausted all available options in the effort to get our only available holding midfielder on the pitch. No matter how much we&#8217;d like him to carry on with this particular injury, the rules forbid it. </p>
<p>The fourth of FIFA&#8217;s Laws of the game (which can be read here: <a href="http://www.mccsiwakuni.com/docs/rsc/data/20061101171353fifarules.pdf)" rel="nofollow">http://www.mccsiwakuni.com/docs/rsc/data/20061101171353fifarules.pdf)</a> governs player&#8217;s equipment. In regards to non basic equipment (anything but shirt, shorts, socks, shinpads or boots) it states, &#8220;A player must not use equipment or wear anything that is dangerous to himself or another player.&#8221; In specific regards to protective gear it says, &#8220;Modern protective eqipment such as headgear, facemasks, knee and arm protectors made of soft, lightweight, padded material are not considered dangerous and are therefore permitted.&#8221; The words soft, lightweight and padded are the most relevant to Carrick&#8217;s situation. Obviously there is no suitable means of protecting Carrick&#8217;s broken elbow that referees would approve of. Even Petr Cech&#8217;s nerf-ball helmet was extensively scrutinized last year. I doubt that officials would approve of a hard cast when it considers leather bracelets, rubber bands, wedding rings, Scapulas and earrings potentially hazardous. </p>
<p>Don&#8217;t tell Cristiano Ronaldo about that earring thing though.</p>
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		<title>By: Grognard</title>
		<link>http://redrants.com/luck-toil-and-a-bloodied-head-as-united-march-on/comment-page-1/#comment-4867</link>
		<dc:creator>Grognard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Oct 2007 00:56:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redrants.com/luck-toil-and-a-bloodied-head-as-united-march-on/#comment-4867</guid>
		<description>My question is simple.  WHERE IN FOOTBALL DOES A PLAYER USE HIS ELBOW?  Arms are use just for balance.  All I am saying is that many players have worn casts in the past, but I admit that it was many years ago, when playing with pain and some discomfort was expected.  

Today teams are stymied by insurance companies that will not protect their investment should further injury occur.  Why?  Because players are worth millions today and insurance companies don&#039;t want to pay when they see what they term as negligence.  I have seen Marco van Basten wear a cast, Willy vander Kerkhof wore one for the 1978 World Cup, Paul Breitner wore one for Bayern for an entire season in the early eighties.  Perhaps I am showing my age but I remember these instances clearly.  And they were forced to put padding on the outside of the cast to protect other players from incidental contact. 

As far as Carrick is concerned, I have read that it&#039;s only a hairline fracture.  So tape him up and put him out there.  Again I come from a culture where players who can&#039;t play with injuries of that nature are called pussies.  It&#039;s wimpy shit like this that turns North America off when it comes to the beautiful game.  Just send the lad a dozen roses and a get well card.  Christ!  The stories I could tell you of athletes playing with far more serious injuries would shock you.  But then again you all probably don&#039;t care.

And JB your comments on JT sounds like the musings of a typical Manchester United fan.  I&#039;m a fan too but I can respect a player from any opposition who plays the following game after he swallows his tongue on the field for all to see.  I saw the photos right after he got hit in the cheek and his cheek did in fact looked depressed, so I think your comments are a bit unfair and smell of bitter rivalry.  That said, please don&#039;t think that I am a John Terry fan.  I just admire his grit. Players like Steve Bruce and Gary Pallister are what I am talking about.  Only a major concussion or severe leg injury would keep them out of a lineup.

The silver lining in all this will be the two week break for internationals.  This will allow Hargreaves to mend and possibly make an appearance right after the break.  Who knows, maybe Carrick will be ready by then too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My question is simple.  WHERE IN FOOTBALL DOES A PLAYER USE HIS ELBOW?  Arms are use just for balance.  All I am saying is that many players have worn casts in the past, but I admit that it was many years ago, when playing with pain and some discomfort was expected.  </p>
<p>Today teams are stymied by insurance companies that will not protect their investment should further injury occur.  Why?  Because players are worth millions today and insurance companies don&#8217;t want to pay when they see what they term as negligence.  I have seen Marco van Basten wear a cast, Willy vander Kerkhof wore one for the 1978 World Cup, Paul Breitner wore one for Bayern for an entire season in the early eighties.  Perhaps I am showing my age but I remember these instances clearly.  And they were forced to put padding on the outside of the cast to protect other players from incidental contact. </p>
<p>As far as Carrick is concerned, I have read that it&#8217;s only a hairline fracture.  So tape him up and put him out there.  Again I come from a culture where players who can&#8217;t play with injuries of that nature are called pussies.  It&#8217;s wimpy shit like this that turns North America off when it comes to the beautiful game.  Just send the lad a dozen roses and a get well card.  Christ!  The stories I could tell you of athletes playing with far more serious injuries would shock you.  But then again you all probably don&#8217;t care.</p>
<p>And JB your comments on JT sounds like the musings of a typical Manchester United fan.  I&#8217;m a fan too but I can respect a player from any opposition who plays the following game after he swallows his tongue on the field for all to see.  I saw the photos right after he got hit in the cheek and his cheek did in fact looked depressed, so I think your comments are a bit unfair and smell of bitter rivalry.  That said, please don&#8217;t think that I am a John Terry fan.  I just admire his grit. Players like Steve Bruce and Gary Pallister are what I am talking about.  Only a major concussion or severe leg injury would keep them out of a lineup.</p>
<p>The silver lining in all this will be the two week break for internationals.  This will allow Hargreaves to mend and possibly make an appearance right after the break.  Who knows, maybe Carrick will be ready by then too.</p>
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		<title>By: dan un-official liaison</title>
		<link>http://redrants.com/luck-toil-and-a-bloodied-head-as-united-march-on/comment-page-1/#comment-4864</link>
		<dc:creator>dan un-official liaison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2007 19:35:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redrants.com/luck-toil-and-a-bloodied-head-as-united-march-on/#comment-4864</guid>
		<description>i stopped at american football, to different sports 2 fifferent types of rules and im sorry but your talking crap, playing with a broken elbow is ludacris.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i stopped at american football, to different sports 2 fifferent types of rules and im sorry but your talking crap, playing with a broken elbow is ludacris.</p>
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		<title>By: JB</title>
		<link>http://redrants.com/luck-toil-and-a-bloodied-head-as-united-march-on/comment-page-1/#comment-4863</link>
		<dc:creator>JB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2007 19:03:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redrants.com/luck-toil-and-a-bloodied-head-as-united-march-on/#comment-4863</guid>
		<description>Grognard: I get the distinct impression that there is a conscious attempt by Chelsea and the English media to build up the legend that is JT.  The number of injuries he comes back from early defies belief, leading me to think that the diagnosis is often grossly exaggerated by Chelsea.  There are precedents for playing with a face mask (Campo and Djorkaeff spring to mind) and the severity of the injury was never made apparent. The talk of 6 weeks out was paper hyperbole from what I could see was no evidence to back it up.  

As for Carrick, you very rarely see football players with casts, the most you ever see is normally the thing Evra has on his arm at the moment and I would assume there is good reason for this.  If the medical department believe he shouldnâ€™t play then it is case closed for me.  I for one would prefer players to look after their helath in the long term rather than recklessly rushing back from injuries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grognard: I get the distinct impression that there is a conscious attempt by Chelsea and the English media to build up the legend that is JT.  The number of injuries he comes back from early defies belief, leading me to think that the diagnosis is often grossly exaggerated by Chelsea.  There are precedents for playing with a face mask (Campo and Djorkaeff spring to mind) and the severity of the injury was never made apparent. The talk of 6 weeks out was paper hyperbole from what I could see was no evidence to back it up.  </p>
<p>As for Carrick, you very rarely see football players with casts, the most you ever see is normally the thing Evra has on his arm at the moment and I would assume there is good reason for this.  If the medical department believe he shouldnâ€™t play then it is case closed for me.  I for one would prefer players to look after their helath in the long term rather than recklessly rushing back from injuries.</p>
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		<title>By: Grognard</title>
		<link>http://redrants.com/luck-toil-and-a-bloodied-head-as-united-march-on/comment-page-1/#comment-4862</link>
		<dc:creator>Grognard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2007 17:03:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redrants.com/luck-toil-and-a-bloodied-head-as-united-march-on/#comment-4862</guid>
		<description>Sorry dan but I know of professionals as well as myself who have played American football with a broken arm and survived.  And trust me that the American brand brand of football is a Hell of a lot more physically risky than footy.  I wore a cast and had my arm stepped on, jammed and blocked and although there was some pain, it was very little because of a very good cast.  

I am one of the few people I know in North America that likes to defend football soccer)against the many who feel it&#039;s not a man&#039;s sport.  If Carrick is a man, he should at least attempt to play and see if he can go.  With a cast on, there is very little chance he will damage the arm further.  A ball hitting his arm is no big deal with the proper cast.  Try having a 300lbs offensive tackle land on your arm while on the ground. 

Sorry to disagree with you but footy is not that physical despite what you may think.  And Carrick would not be the first player to play with a broken arm either.  Many have before him.  But of course that was a different era when men played the sport instead of today&#039;s little girls who spend all their time either diving, play acting, pulling shirts etc.  The game has become a joke.  We need  more injured players to actually suck up the pain a bit and play with some discomfort.  They owe it to both their clubs and their supporters who pay them so well.  

Today&#039;s player is not willing to play even if he has a non leg related little knock.  This is nothing more than BS.  Play with some pain I say.  I&#039;m not saying play a player who has an injury like ligament damage, that if playing him will end up sidelining him for a long time.  I salute players like John Terry who put on a mask and sacrificed himself for the good of the team.  And I for one would not have insisted on him playing because a fractured cheek is far more vulnerable to further injury than a well protected broken arm is.  After all, arms are considered out of play in footy.  Heads are fair game. Where are the players with GUTS?  The game needs more players with determined courage and the willingness to fight even if they aren&#039;t 100% fit.  Nuff said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry dan but I know of professionals as well as myself who have played American football with a broken arm and survived.  And trust me that the American brand brand of football is a Hell of a lot more physically risky than footy.  I wore a cast and had my arm stepped on, jammed and blocked and although there was some pain, it was very little because of a very good cast.  </p>
<p>I am one of the few people I know in North America that likes to defend football soccer)against the many who feel it&#8217;s not a man&#8217;s sport.  If Carrick is a man, he should at least attempt to play and see if he can go.  With a cast on, there is very little chance he will damage the arm further.  A ball hitting his arm is no big deal with the proper cast.  Try having a 300lbs offensive tackle land on your arm while on the ground. </p>
<p>Sorry to disagree with you but footy is not that physical despite what you may think.  And Carrick would not be the first player to play with a broken arm either.  Many have before him.  But of course that was a different era when men played the sport instead of today&#8217;s little girls who spend all their time either diving, play acting, pulling shirts etc.  The game has become a joke.  We need  more injured players to actually suck up the pain a bit and play with some discomfort.  They owe it to both their clubs and their supporters who pay them so well.  </p>
<p>Today&#8217;s player is not willing to play even if he has a non leg related little knock.  This is nothing more than BS.  Play with some pain I say.  I&#8217;m not saying play a player who has an injury like ligament damage, that if playing him will end up sidelining him for a long time.  I salute players like John Terry who put on a mask and sacrificed himself for the good of the team.  And I for one would not have insisted on him playing because a fractured cheek is far more vulnerable to further injury than a well protected broken arm is.  After all, arms are considered out of play in footy.  Heads are fair game. Where are the players with GUTS?  The game needs more players with determined courage and the willingness to fight even if they aren&#8217;t 100% fit.  Nuff said.</p>
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		<title>By: dan un-official liaison</title>
		<link>http://redrants.com/luck-toil-and-a-bloodied-head-as-united-march-on/comment-page-1/#comment-4858</link>
		<dc:creator>dan un-official liaison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2007 06:57:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redrants.com/luck-toil-and-a-bloodied-head-as-united-march-on/#comment-4858</guid>
		<description>i cant belive you people are saying this, he cant play like that, broken cheek bone you can play with, just put the shield on as he did, dislocated sholder, you CAN play with, just pop it back in, and play but you shouldnt do that because hell damage it, a broken elbow you CANT play with, espesially with a cast on, you wouldnt be able to run, then someone like rooney (strong kicker from other team)kick right at his elbow, is handball, its not handball, 1 things for certain, it will hurt like HELL and take longer to heal, do you people think before you type, have faith in players, when 1 door closes 2 doors(pique anderson) open.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i cant belive you people are saying this, he cant play like that, broken cheek bone you can play with, just put the shield on as he did, dislocated sholder, you CAN play with, just pop it back in, and play but you shouldnt do that because hell damage it, a broken elbow you CANT play with, espesially with a cast on, you wouldnt be able to run, then someone like rooney (strong kicker from other team)kick right at his elbow, is handball, its not handball, 1 things for certain, it will hurt like HELL and take longer to heal, do you people think before you type, have faith in players, when 1 door closes 2 doors(pique anderson) open.</p>
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