Mar 25
Lull After the Storm
The weekend euphoria must have well and truly subsided to some extent. Mondays can do that even to the merriest of the lot. We also discussed pretty much everything that needed to be discussed. Some people decided to murder Rooney for his poor goal returns, others decided to murder those who decided to murder Rooney. Some were worried that Ronaldo was scoring more goals than providing assists, others dismissed that as mere selfishness. Some discussed about Ben Foster, others were preoccupied with solving the conundrum of how best to fill the two holes in central midfield that could pulverize one and all. Some wanted the team to demolish all opposition, others were happy just winning.
A casual observer was meanwhile found scratching his head — a glance at the league table showed him that Manchester United were on top and five points ahead. Little did he understand the true nature of fandom. There can be no end to bitching, regardless of your team’s position — and Red Rants certainly does have a nice place to do said bitching. Enough of the self-aggrandizement, though, on to some news of note.
United’s media manager, cum spokesperson, cum central midfielder, made a remark yesterday, or was it the day before — I can’t really tell. Here it is:
We’re well aware that when we play our best, we will beat anyone. But we’ve got a tough run-in, so we’re not going to get carried away. Having said that, we’re happy with the position we’re in, that’s for sure.
Postman Left back Pat, went further with this:
We know we are in a great position now but we know we have seven games which will be like seven finals. We have to win those seven finals. We have our destiny in our hands.
I preferred what Sir Alex used to say: “It’s squeaky bum time.” Saves everyone energy, doesn’t it?
Speaking of Sir Alex, he’s cautioned his players that the title is not sealed yet. We have Chelsea and Arsenal left to contend with, and with the results from Sunday, a good run from Chelsea and a couple of slip ups from us could really turn things around. So, like always, no one can really afford to get cocky anymore.
Meanwhile, we have a boring round of internationals coming up on Wednesday. Now, isn’t that wonderful? For fuck’s sake! Thankfully, Capello thought Carrick was shit. More importantly though, Ronaldo and Nani were withdrawn from Portugal’s games as a precautionary measure — hopefully they are fit for the weekend. Unfortunately, Rio, Rooney, Anderson, Vidic, Hargreaves and the rest would have to go. We wish them all the luck in the world and also tell them to watch their step as they walk out of the comfort zone of Old Trafford.
Meanwhile Mascherano is still surprised why he was sent off. Someone sit him down, explain him in English, then in Spanish, then in Portuguese and then in sign language, that he was as high as Courtney Love and had an IQ of a lamp post. Of course, he may not understand this article in the Telegraph on Bennet’s bold decision.
And that’s all there is to it, at the time of writing. You could, of course, continue to discuss anything that was seemingly left out over the past week. Anything from efficient lawn mowing to the inside scoop on how Fergie likes to down his wine. Or we could just talk about football — now who wants to talk about something as bland as that, eh?
Related items from Red Rants:- United 4-0 Wigan: The Goals Are Coming!
- Community Shield Preview
- United Storm After the Lull, as Wigan Fall Victim
- Sunday Roundup: Brazilian Starlet, Tevez’s Word, Owen, Rossi
- United On The Brink Of Greatness, Again
Tags: Daily Roundup
March 25th, 2008 at 10:16
Well done United! Great to see Wayne terrorizing the pool defence… The goal isn’t far away.. The assist to Brown was terrific. Also some of his first touch was fantastic..
Brown needs to stay a United player.. Go United!
March 25th, 2008 at 11:29
I honestly can not understand all those fans out there who have it in for Rooney, in my eyes the man’s a God! He regularly steps up in the big games which can not be said for Ronaldo and he is an integral part of the team. His vision, passing ability and movement is second to none. And his first touch was displayed at Old Trafford on Sunday for all to see. He doesn’t need to be scoring goals to be playing well and I wouldn’t care if he never scored again if he played aswell as he did against Pool. But in time the goal will come, followed by another, then another, then another. Rooney is a fantastic player and I thank God that he plays for Manchester United, the best team the world has ever seen.
March 25th, 2008 at 12:34
Olliey, i guess you have a point. it looks most of us here have a wrong understanding of soccer when it comes to issues pertaining strikers.
Grognard i request you withdraw all your biases about Rooney. it am to take you people back to the old system of play, rooney isn’t a center forward but no a number 10. I find it hard but to make all of us accept what the boy does for the club i have to admit and use Dennis Bergkamp the arse legend as an example. When that name is mentioned nobody can denies what a classic striker the lad was.(Is there any? i doubt) but for all his years at arsenal since 1995 upto 2006, he only managed 120 goals in 422 appearances for arsenal but he had a booming 166 assist (3rd leading assist man in the history of the EPL).
There’s the Rooney for you. He might not score loads of goals for but that’s not his number one role. his number one role as a number 10 is to provide assists and scoring comes next. You should have problems with him if fails at that but with 8 goals and 10 assist in the league alone thats not a bad return.
Further still why compared the lad with someone who has played as a striker int the most part of this season and on top of that he’s takes every dead ball for the team. If we had someone else to take United’s penalties and free kicks do you think Cristiano would be having 25 leagues goals? i doubt!!!
With no disrespect Ronaldo scored 16 league goals last season because he was sharing the free kick role with Giggs, maybe of all the free kicks giggs took he might have notched 3 to take the tally to 19.
We talk of Rooney’s profligacy and his poor first touch but we should always give credit where its due. Of all the one on ones the lad got on Sunday, how mach strikers in the world do you think would have made such clever runs and on top of that irrespective of whether they convert the chances on not but how many would control those superb aerial balls from Carrick and Scholes?
Last we’ve had some big games played since having Rooney and Ronaldo in the same team but on all occassions (RR you may help me and get the exact qoutes for me) the opponent have always said how Ronaldo is good player and one of the best in the world but they’ve further a head to mention how the threat ot them in the United team wont be Ronaldo but Ronney.I stand to mention some of those names Dida, Maldini and Nesta in our meetings with AC Milan, then Toti and Doni in our meetings with Roma not forgetting what almost all the Lyon team was saying.
It doesnt therefore come by coincidence that all these world class players recognize how good the two are but again know who poses the most threat.
That all said i dont want to be misunderstood am neither comparing the two nor saying Rooney is a better player than Roanldo but all am saying is what he’s done or doing at the moment is enough (you might argue not quite enough) regarding his role in the team.
March 25th, 2008 at 12:51
nobody is slating rooney as such…
its just we all want so much more from him (knowing that he is perfectly capable of becoming the best player in the world)! both rooney and ronaldo joined united almost at the same time (ron came earlier) and he was regarded as a bigger star(hence 30m fee) but ronaldo has arguably grown into a bigger player of the two! rooney showed lot of promise initially but he still has to live upto it.
And his role as a striker (and a no. 10) is to score goals. he is wearing the same jersey that has been worn by the likes of Law and RVN!
An interesting thing is if rooney is unable to finish a move then its not an assist (howsoever good the move/cross was)! Prob the profligacy of rooney and tevez explains low number of assists for ronaldo…
March 25th, 2008 at 14:03
Rooney has just lost the confidence of scoring. United fans want to see the fanastic goals that he has scored(First match (hat trick) against Fenerbache, the double against Middlesbro’ or the famous goal against Newcastle.
We expect so much form Rooney after the standards that he has set. At least Rooney is still contributing in making chances for others to score. For me Rooney has played his best football of the season against Liverpool. He is now making the runs that enable to break off the offside trap. It is now another asset of Ronney’s game. He is now leading the forward line and reaching his peak form.
The only aspect that is lacking is the finishing touch. And afterwards the united fans will stop complaining. The fact is that the fans are comparing Ronney with Ronaldo. I will say that the role of the players has been inversed. Rooney is making the passes that are slipting up the defense while Ronaldo is providing the final touch.
They are both important for the running of the team and Ronney is still decisive in the big matches.
March 25th, 2008 at 14:39
man for a club like utd that fights for every trophy (most importantly the league) every game is a big game! Only for clubs that only play for cups is the concept of small and big teams come into picture.
Utd might win this year coz we took all 3 pts against Derby courtsey ronaldo goal when nothing was going in. In my eyes that was a huge game and huge win (on a day when nothing was going in). I think its a bit too haughty of us fans to consider some teams as small and some as big. On their day anybody can win (bolton beat us!!!) so lets not belittle achievements against the so-called small teams. Every point counts when it comes to the championship!
March 25th, 2008 at 14:39
This rooney and ronaldo topic never ends….
anyway.. what i feel is that how much ever these guys play well, there will always be one of them who will have the limelight and since the rooney is english… the english press takes joy in criticizing rooney coz ronaldo has been the more prolific scorer this season. Then the season when rooney will score more, i am more than sure that Rooney will be mooted as the best player in the world and ronaldo will be the one criticized(even though the boy may b playin better overall). Its the fallacy of having 2 greats in the same team. ND yes both r greats.. Rooney’s all round play has been fantastic but the only thing that is left is scoring… bein a striker it is his primary job but this is the first season hez playin as an out and out striker… so give the guy time to adjust…. even after shifting roles the quality that he is showing should be testamentary to rooneys ability and his form…
Forget his scoring record..,. as long as the team scores it does not matter where the goals come from…..
March 25th, 2008 at 14:52
Redranter: You forgot Giggs. Nothing like a bit of Giggs bashing to get your day off on the right foot
On a side note, Rio has been named as England captain for the French friendly. Well done to Rio, now SAF is it not time to have a serious look at who has our own armband on a long term basis.
March 25th, 2008 at 15:35
JB- now there’s a debate.
I personally see Rooney as our future captain, I’m just not sure he’s ready yet (mainly because it will be hard for players like Giggs, Scholes, Neville, Ferdinand to listen to orders from someone so many years their junior)
We should probably leave it will Neville until he has been actively displaced from the team (rather than just out due to injury)
That may well be this summer, with rumours abounding of us in the hunt for full backs- Boswinga and Lahm to name a couple.
If Neville is displaced soon, I would give it to Rio for a few years. He has been a mountain this season, and has the experience and the authority as well as the talent to do the job.
Then, in a few years time, I suppose when Pique (or someone else) replaces an aging Ferdinand, it will be time for Rooney, who beforehand should be made vice-captain to Rio.
March 25th, 2008 at 15:42
I believe I started the Rooney talk yesterday, so I should clarify: I DO NOT have it out for Rooney. I love Rooney. One of my favorite players of any sport. It’s just that he is the most horribly frustrating player I’ve ever watched. He is not a little bit lacking in front of goal this year, he is HORRIBLE. He blows opportunities that championship league strikers would bury. His first touch is outrageously disappointing at times when played through.
I used to run a Manchester Blog and I posted this following his disgusting performance in our 6-0 trouncing of Newcastle:
“Rooney has nine goals this year in 20 appearance, five of them in Premier League play. He has struggled to remain fit this season through a fluky injury and a virus which cost him some games. Manchester United are undefeated in all matches in which Wayne Rooney appears, with his play, seemingly, a strong catalyst to the side. What causes concern for me, however, is this: Wayne Rooney has only scored once in a match decided by one goal or less. Said another way, if Wayne Rooney had not sored at all this season only one result would be different–he was the lone goal scorer in our 1-0 victory against Roma at Old Trafford. Most of Rooney’s goals this year came in games much like yesterday’s, absolute massacres against teams in the lower half of the table. In league play he has scored against the following teams: Wigan Athletic, Aston Villa, Sunderland and Middlesbrough. 80% of his league goals come against teams in the bottom 1/3 of the league. Wayne Rooney’s link-up play is undeniably brilliant. Some of his touches, like his gorgeous back heel to Tevez earlier this season, have led to the most beautiful goals of the year. But his shooting has been erratic, failing to find the net at times when you’d swear he was destined to score.”
I don’t know how the stats have changed since that match, but I doubt they have improved much. This isn’t a recent trend. This has been happening all year long. It’s not that I believe United is better without Rooney on the pitch: obviously not. It’s not that I don’t believe that he is one of the most fantastic footballers I have ever witnessed. It’s simply this: His inability to score has arguably cost us the FA Cup and I believe it will cost us the Champions League.
You can get away with his waste in the Premiership, as the margin of error is larger. Cup play, however, is not nearly as forgiving. Perhaps we will get lucky and be able to overcome not having a striker that scores. Perhaps Rooney will get it together. I doubt either of those. The competition in England this season is pretty poor aside from Chelsea and Arsenal and I believe it makes us a bit delusional. You cannot be wasteful in front of net and expect to be champions of Europe. The stronger sides will simply punish us.
I know there is nothing to be done at this point, as the transfer window is closed. Our side is our side and we are going to have to make due without a traditional striker. I just have a difficult time seeing Rooney being exalted by United supporters week in and week out for his “pace, workrate, vision” and otherwise while completely ignoring the fact that he costs us goals almost every game he plays. How many great passes equal a blown 1 on 1 with the keeper? How long do you continually give him the benefit of the doubt without taking him to task. All the passes, hustle and vision are admirable, but his inability to slot the ball into the net is forcing United to play without a striker and I don’t know how long we can sustain in this way.
March 25th, 2008 at 15:43
Well SAF did give Ronaldo the armband a couple weeks back!
March 25th, 2008 at 15:59
future? Rio is around till 2010 / 2012, after that Rooney will be old enough to be captain
March 25th, 2008 at 16:07
Talking about Rooney in the same sentence as ronaldo does not put them in the same class. Ronaldo is arguably the best player in the world, putting ronaldo aside rooney isnt even the best player in England. Not bashing him, but I think english fans rate him higher than he actually is.
Rio for captain is a great move, he is pure class in the back.
March 25th, 2008 at 16:11
just out of curiosity, has Arsenal ever lost a game under Wenger because they were out played? I am asking because after every loss or draw, Wenger has an excuse as to why they lost.
March 25th, 2008 at 16:26
I found this site that shows the odds of us winning the league depending on how we play the remaining games:
overall, we have 78.7% chance of winning the league, Chelsea has 12.5% and Arsenal has 8.7%
http://www.sportsclubstats.com/England/ManchesterUnited.html
pretty interesting comparisons.
March 25th, 2008 at 16:45
Rio as captain for England. Now that has a nice ring to it. Hmmm! Rio as permanent captain for United. Now that sounds even better. He has earned it and he deserves it. He is our Rock of Gibraltar and the main ingredient to our team’s stability other than Fergie. Giggs, Scholes are deserving because of the experience and tenure they have with the team but Rio deserves it because of his consistently high grade of play and the leadership skills he displays on the pitch and I’m sure in the dressing room.
Personally I believe that when Capello finally decides once and for all who his permanent captain will be, it will be either Rio or Rooney. They both deserve it and they both are the leaders of the most respected and highly regarded club in the world. Our side is run by SAF and performs like it. It also carries itself with honor and dignity. There are no Mascherano’s or Ashley Coles running their team in to the ground on this team. England needs a captain who is not just a fine player but a role model of stability that comes from a team that doesn’t represent a weekly display in poor discipline, bad taste and poor judgment. Rio and Manchester United deserve this honor from England for being disciplined, classy and the beacon of light that showcases all the right things about our game to the rest of the world. I say RIO FOR CAPTAIN…..PERMANENTLY for both club and country.
March 25th, 2008 at 17:03
I totally agree with Grognard…Rio is captain material..passionate,stable…He propagates the “on the face” attitude to the team without having to shout filthy words..He is cool, calm but hot and very much vocal when the occasion asks for it..Moreover he is a great defender as well as a good player overall with good ball control and technical ability..
Coming back to Rooney talk…there is no second opinion that he needs to start scoring but he is not at all a burden for the fluid attack we have got at United now. I take it this way…It is sad that we dont have a “fox in the box” striker (which i think we will see in Manucho),but so overwhelmed to have a deadly talented trio - Ronaldo,Rooney and Tevez who can show the whole world how beautiful goals can be scored and with straight and direct football…
I was (am still) an admirer of Fernando Torres…I still used to dream of another trio - Ronaldo,Rooney,Torres…ooohh that would have been so bad for any other team on earth (even for a World XI)…
March 25th, 2008 at 17:06
rooney a role model!!! grogy he has been sent off for foul-mouthing match official in a very crunch CL match that cost us passage out of qualifiers that year. whole 2 years later (i.e. now) still we see lot of times rooney goes on tirades against the officials for no reasons! he is not as good as A Cole or JTerry at this skill but still not free of guilt as well.
Rio on the other hand is good choice. He has excelled for both club and country (one of the very few players) and would make a very good captain.
March 25th, 2008 at 18:15
“The competition in England this season is pretty poor aside from Chelsea and Arsenal and I believe it makes us a bit delusional. You cannot be wasteful in front of net and expect to be champions of Europe. The stronger sides will simply punish us.
Stronger sides? If there are 4 teams from England in the Champions league quarter-finals, and “The competition in England this season is pretty poor” then what does that say about the Champions League this season? Barcelona are out of form, Schalke and Fenerbahce clearly aren’t the stronger teams you’re referring to(that’s not to say they won’t put up a fight), and with Roma being perennial underachievers in Europe in recent years, we must not have any real competition for the Champions League this season by your logic Patrick? And you then seem to think that if we don’t win the Champions League all our blame should be aimed towards Rooney?
March 25th, 2008 at 18:42
Jos; I was referring to Rio as a role model, not Rooney. Read more carefully. However, regarding Rooney he has matured considerably this year and his temper tantrums are smaller and fewer as are his yellow cards. This also speaks volumes for his consideration as a captain because he has the positive attitude, passion and leadership qualities needed.
Also, regarding Rooney and his lack of scoring. If we were to sign a top line goal scorer, I couldn’t care less if Rooney scored only around 10 league goals a season. His value to the team on and off the pitch transcends goals and he is a great creator of chances for others with his large array of talents.
March 25th, 2008 at 18:54
Conor; Perhaps you should watch how wasteful Barcelona, Real Madrid, Inter, Milan, Bayern and other top clubs have been this season. They all have had terrible spells where trying to score has become difficult, even when they have clear cut chances.
Wastefulness is at epidemic proportions right now. Perhaps the ball has something to do with it but i just think that it’s just a freak of nature. Trust me when I say that the top Spanish sides especially have been horrible in front of net. Man Utd have actually been very good in front of goal. It’s the misses of Rooney, Tevez and Anderson that masks the reality that we are actually very sniper-like in front of goal. We also have the great Ronaldo. Torres has been very good but nobody else on Liverpool can hit goals consistently except maybe Gerrard. Liverpool are very wasteful. Arsenal have become very wasteful too. In the past they used to be famous for making one too many passes too. Chelsea are nothing when Drogba isn’t on form. Lampard is a shadow of himself and need I even mention the name Shevchenko to define the term wasteful. I have watched every game of Bayern Munich this year with their great strikers and midfielders and I can’t tell you how many chances they have wasted despite their impressive record and goal count. Considering all, we are in pretty good shape
March 25th, 2008 at 19:02
Just something to look at, this is our assists in the premier league this season -
Rooney - 11
Nani - 9
Tevez - 6
Giggs - 5
Scholes - 3
Ronaldo - 3
O’Shea - 2
Flether - 2
Brown - 2
Carrick - 1
Anderson - 1
Hargreaves - 1
Simpson - 1
Evra - 1
Ferdinand - 1
Vidic - 1
Rooney is far far more important to the team than just scoring. Look at Ronaldo who is meant to be the creator he only has 3, just 1 more than Brown!!! Im not slatting Ronaldo by the way, he has been unbelievable but surely we should expect a few more assists from him?! Guess it just shows how further advanced he is playing this season…. (stats provided by fantasy.premierleague.com)
March 25th, 2008 at 19:05
I actually have watched the the Spanish and Italian Leagues this season, and Real Madrid and Barcelona have probably been the worst this season, just ahead of Inter who have missed plenty. I rarely get to watch the German League, although it seemed eery time I did get to watch Bayern they missed a hatful of chances, i just thought I caught them on a bad day, apparently not
That’s why I’ve been saying all along that the amount of goals we’ve scored is commendable and is the stuff of champions when coupled with our even better defensive record. It’s like you’re a new man today Grognard 
! I mean you’re just after basically saying Rooney will become undroppable once we get an out-and-out striker, and now you’re saying we’re actually in good goalscoring shape, compared to a few days ago when you said really we should be aiming for another 15 to 20 goals.
And Ryan, that has nothing to do with where he is playing this season compared to last, he’s just became even more selfish and confident, coupled with the fact that our strikers just don’t score enough, as everyone has pointed out many a times. But the selfishness doesn’t bother me at all, it seems to lead to an improvement; more goals, more shots on target and he works the keeper 75% of the time with his free kicks, which is amazing when we think of how bad he was with them last season.
March 25th, 2008 at 19:13
ryan
the low assist count on ronaldos name MIGHT be explained by the fact that when he creates its upto the likes of tevez, rooney, giggs etc to score. when rooney creates theres always a certain ronaldo to score! given how wasteful rooney (and even tevez) have been this year, and how exceptional ronaldo has been, its not surprising to see rooney, tevez etc with high assist counts… Its just my theory though and might not be entirely true… but i have seen rooney, tevez and giggs (not to mention anderson who might not have had even one shot on goal this whole year!) miss some really good chances created by ronaldo.
who is there to head in if ronaldo sends in a cross???
March 25th, 2008 at 19:22
Patrick
ok you argument is fine but how can you call Rooney frustrating. Have you ever seen Ronaldo play? For me he is definately the most frustrating player on this team. I recall an incident on Sunday where he had it on the right and we were on the break with Rooney and Anderson running through the centre with 1 defender between them and goal. Ronaldo’s attempted pass went straight to the defender. It was still 1-0 at that point I think. Oh yeah and the time Ronaldo missed from 6 yards out even though he had enough time to set up camp.
You say we look over Rooneys bad points and yet you all do it with ronny so that immediately puts your argument on the back foot.
March 25th, 2008 at 19:22
Jos I agree to a slight extent with you about everyone else missing chances this season, but very few of those chances have actually came from Ronaldo, since he rarely bothers to try and play the killer pass or put in a good cross. That may show lack of confidence in his team mates, or more likely, overconfidence in himself. But the chances missed by people this season have often come from crosses or passes by Giggs, Scholes, Carrick and Nani. Also I don’t know if anyone else realised, but if Rooney could actually finish one on ones, Van Der Saar would be in the top 5 in our assists chart
largely thanks to Rooney’s great runs in behind from long free kicks and goal kicks may I add.
Liam, I remember that pass on the break as well, and he has done it way too much this season, he did it twice against Derby too, whereas when roney is in the same position, he nearly always picks the right pass.
March 25th, 2008 at 19:49
[Grognard]
Did you actually say this? You are actually accepting wastefulness and saying we are good in front of goal? So I suppose buying a great finisher wouldn’t help much then, would it? because it doesn’t seem to be working for Bayern (who have Klose and Toni) and Real (who have RvN) and Barcelona (who have Eto’o)
Ignore my question, I was just surprised at your opinion this time — I actually agree with it, so it’s not in a bad way.
March 25th, 2008 at 20:02
Jos -
I understand what your saying and I think it just shows that last season when we had Saha starting upfront with Rooney, Ronaldo had a target in the box who could finish with his head aswell as his feet.
Everyone seems to have really high hopes of Manucho but im extremly worried he isnt gonna be good enough to be a starter for us, especially next season, and think we will need to buy. Torres would have been perfect! im unsure who would fit the bill at the moment…. a fit Saha?!
March 25th, 2008 at 20:45
okay Hold on there every body Iam sure we will win the premiership ,But what about the UCL,i mean
are we mentally strong enough to win this one ?Because i think we have the best Squad in europe this season”’”"”
iknow ,iknow, we lack a genuine no;9 but as long as we have rooney he atleast creates chances so
i dont mind rooney’s lack of goals coz he creates a lot of chances for others, something cristiano has forgot this year
BUT I REALLY WANT TO KNOW WHETHER WE CAN WIN IN EUROPE ?????I feel FERGIE is not that tactically astute
in europe like he is in the premiership-:::
March 25th, 2008 at 22:38
Red Ranter; If you watched Bayern as much as I do you would realize just how incredibly wasteful they are. In fact, they could kick almost anybody’s ass by the number of opportunities they get in a game. It’s much more than United’s. Despite Toni, Klose, Podolski, Ribery etc, they miss way more clear cut chances than they make. I say this from knowledge because I watch and record every one of their games. Their strikers get twice as many chances to score as do Tevez and Rooney.
As for United, yes you read correctly but you misinterpreted my meaning. When you compare our strike rate to other top clubs in Europe, we are actually quite good despite the lack of finishing displayed by Mr’s Rooney, Tevez and Saha. Of course a top goal poacher thrown into our lineup would improve our goal haul as well as goal scoring to goal attempts ratio.
Please explain to me what part of that is hard to understand?
March 26th, 2008 at 5:56
grogy
ronaldo cud be the solution to goal poacher problem. he is quite a goal hungry lad, powerfully built, tall, good in the air, cheap (in fact free!), in short all attributes to become top goal scorer (just like Henry). We might as well look for a right midfielder who can send in decent crosses and play rooney behind ronaldo (in a very fluid sort of formation where everyone will keep interchanging!)
Sounds very interesting to me… could save us those 20-30m UKP that a top class poacher like villa/benzema will cost. we can invest that into a good RB and a good GK.
March 26th, 2008 at 9:24
Jos; I think it’s easier to find a goal scorer and have the benefit of Ronaldo on the right to freelance and do his thing.
March 26th, 2008 at 13:34
No well Grognard think about it from Red Ranter’s point of view, all these teams with top class poachers still miss plenty of chances, so how would buying one solve our finishing problems? Klose and Toni are known primarily for scoring goals, so if we got a striker who like them, suffered from missing alot of chances, then basically they would become a liability would they not?
March 26th, 2008 at 17:26
[jos]
just like to mention something about shirt numbers.The number 10 is a number that is usually reserved for attacking players, strikers, or what the italians call the fantastista - the player in the hole behind the striker, like Francesco Totti - and this is what Rooney is. There is also a sort of prestige that is associated with wearing the number 10 jersey - famous number 10s include zidane, platini, ronaldinho, maradona etc
In the case of creative players, or players having so many skills that you can play them in a number of positions, it is very hard to actually get their jersey number right.
If you were to have Duncan Edwards in your team, which number would you give him?
Everybody thought Rooney was a goal machine when he 1st came to United, and he did nothing to disprove that with his debut.
But in the end, he is a creator of opportunities, and creators usually wear numbers 7,10…
So my view is that number 10 does suit Rooney.
March 26th, 2008 at 17:31
Klose and Toni don’t miss a lot of chances, the rest of the team does. From Schweinsteiger, van Bommel, Ribery, Podolski, Ze Roberto, Altintop and Lucio you could build a mountain from all the balls that flew in to the stands. This team has no problem creating plenty of opportunities for their other non striker players. Problem is they tend to miss. Thank God for Toni and Klose as their accuracy and strike efficiency is the real deal.
Strikers missing opportunities is not as big a problem as non strikers. Why? Because their chances generally come in high percentage areas. Therefore, if one buys the right striker, you should get a lot of goals. Buying the wrong type (ie; Tevez) and you will not only miss more chances, but also miss more opportunities. We all get on Rooney and Tevez for their misses but when you really analyze things, they do not take enough shots at goal anyway. Not compared to other top teams with top striker combos.
Sorry to disagree with you Conor but we badly need a guy in the box who we can trust to make a sure fire goal, a sure fire goal and not s 50/50 proposition like Tevez. Rooney is too good a player to leave off the pitch. As a second striker he would flourish and still be very productive. The pressure to score goals will have lessened and he can concentrate on running, creating space, passing and being a nuisance to defenses. This would only make things utopian for our striker and Ronaldo.
March 26th, 2008 at 18:09
Well I just think we’ll never agree on needing a new striker, because I do feel he would help, but im happy enough with our 2 first choice strikers. Tevez and rooney are great players, and I do still have the belief they can play together. The back-up strikers aren’t as great, Manucho seems like he always will be a back-up, and a decent one at that, Saha should just be sold. So I would be happy getting another striker as a bench player, but I still have faith in Tevez and thats the main differences in our argument, you see him as a sub, I see him as an important first team player. And I still don’t understand, since Klose and Toni have only scored 26 league goals and they are proper goal scorers in a league which in recent tradition has seen plenty of goals, compare this to Rooney and Tevez’s 19 league goals in a better league, and I don’t see many benefits of having a striker who just scores goal, like Huntelaar. Most of the play ends up being directed to him, which then means Rooney and Ronaldo get the ball in threatening positions less often which in turn makes our main goalscoring threat easier to mark. I also don’t think Sir Alex wants to buy another pure goalscorer like Ruud anymore after our trophyless seasons with him, so really I think we’re debating for no real reason.
March 26th, 2008 at 19:25
pretty good arguments conor!
we’ll see how good the rooney tevez combo is next season (or rooney tevez ronaldo combo). they wud have had 1 full season to develop an understanding and both shud be more fresh (as they’ll both be doing nothing whole summer…)
One great thing about tevez (and ronaldo) is very less susceptible to injuries!!! (even when he works so hard till last second!!!) really tremendous player… rooney on the other hand… and saha must be the best player in the world - at picking up injuries!!!
March 26th, 2008 at 21:21
Conor; So you say a striking partnership that has 26 goals in 26 matches is unsatisfactory, considering Klose missed several games as well as Toni. And the two of them have tallied for over 40 goals in all competitions. The Bundesliga is no Eriedivise. It is far superior and scoring goals in the league is not as easy as you think. They also play only 34 games.
Yes we agree to disagree, but that’s ok. It would be a boring planet if everyone saw eye to eye.
March 27th, 2008 at 16:19
Well between them their goals per game ratio is one every 1.7 matches, compared to Rooney and Tevez’s which is one every 2.2, and the advantage of having true goalscorers in your team isn’t blatantly obvious. That’s one more goal every 2 matches, and then when you include everything else that Tevez and Rooney bring to the team, I prefer our partnership.
“Thank God for Toni and Klose as their accuracy and strike efficiency is the real deal”
Klose and Toni’s shots to shots on target ratio is 0.49 compared to Rooney and Tevez’s 0.6, so their shooting accuracy is actually worse.
“We all get on Rooney and Tevez for their misses but when you really analyze things, they do not take enough shots at goal anyway. Not compared to other top teams with top striker combos.”
Rooney and Tevez have taken more shots than Klose and Toni which makes this part of your argument wrong.
“Their strikers get twice as many chances to score as do Tevez and Rooney”
Yet they are supposedly better finishers and haven’t scored many more goals. This leads me to believe having a striker like Klose or Toni isn’t an exact solution to our goalscoring ‘problems’.
I’m always happy when our team is improved, but I wouldn’t be happy if we got a poacher just to kick Tevez off of the team. I think this could lead to plenty of problems but we might just find out this summer, who knows.
March 27th, 2008 at 17:34
Conor; Klose and Toni’s shooting efficiency may be worse because they get more chances in a game in the box. Part of the problem with Rooney and Tevez is that they both don’t create or make enough chances for themselves as well, they don’t get enough chances created by and from teammates. Where you get your facts amazes me. I watch and have recorded every game of both teams and I can tell you that your statistical analysis is nothing more than BS. Especially since you don’t watch or follow Bayern like I do. Lack of strong scoring opportunities for strikers is certainly not a problem at Bayern. Also, you mean to tell me that an extra goal every two games is not significant in the game of football? You must be watching too much basketball. 5 extra goals every 10 games adds up. Toni leads the Bundesliga in goals and Klose leads Bayern in total goals in all competitions yet you seem to think that they are doing poorly. The two of them have scored over 40 goals together in all competitions while Rooney and Tevez have been stuck on 28 for God knows how long and have played more games too. Also keep in mind that there was an 8 game spell just before Christmas when both Bayern strikers and the team as a whole when into a wicked slump. They came out of it but before that slump, both Klose and Toni were scoring over a goal a game for the first dozen games. And since the middle of February Toni has gone on another streak of goals. No matter how good strikers are, they need consistent service. If they stop receiving it, they will falter too.
Fine, you don’t want a goal scorer. I accept that. Join the minority my friend. The bottom line is that a goal scorer is necessary to add more goals and chances to our seasonal totals as well, we need to take a lot of pressure of Rooney and even Ronaldo. If we do this, they will be more dangerous, and the team will even be more lethal and dynamic. If you and a few others can’t see that, then there is nothing more to say on the topic. I do respect your opinion even though I definitely don’t agree. I’m also thankful that SAF has a history of thinking more like me in regards to the fact that he is not one to believe in standing pat and not trying to find ways to improve and get even more production out of the team. To not think this team is in dire need of not just one but two more strikers (write Balsa Boy Saha off) is absolute madness. Buying one and bringing over Manucho next season is what we need to do. Sorry mate but as I see it, and I’m not alone in this way of thinking because we need it. Watching Huntelaar and Gomez both score great striker goals for their countries yesterday just made me envious as I watched England putt putt out there with a lone striker and lone hope Rooney lost in the wilderness. Very very sad.
March 27th, 2008 at 18:55
“Lack of strong scoring opportunities for strikers is certainly not a problem at Bayern”
So then why have they not scored more goals? That’s what they do, they score goals. They do very litle else, although Klose does at least do a bit more for the team than Toni. Their goalscoring ratio should be better then if they are pure goalscorers, and they get lots of chances, that’s just my opinion. Toni leads the Bundesliga goalscoring charts by two goals, ahead of someone who you said did not play until January, this comes acros to me as an indication of the Bundesliga not being as great as I thought, and also Toni and Klose not being the great goalscorers I thought they were.
“Also, you mean to tell me that an extra goal every two games is not significant in the game of football?”
I never intimated that at all. That would be stupid.
“The two of them have scored over 40 goals together in all competitions while Rooney and Tevez have been stuck on 28 for God knows how long and have played more games too.”
Look lets leave out the stupid Uefa Cup games against teams like Belenenses and Aberdeen who aren’t even of the quality of the worse premiership teams, probably bar Derby. Bayern handed out quite a few thrashings in the Uefa Cup this season, as I think we would have if we were in it. I was judging purely from the league games, from which the two partnerships have lpayed the same amount of games. Tevez and Rooney aren’t goalscorers, neither of them are and no-one is arguing they are. Klose and Toni are. So I’d probably be expecting another 10 goals from each of them, 36 goals betweeen them in 26 games seemed reasonal to be looking at their finishing qualities. It’s less than one and a half goals per game, so I thought it was a reasonable judgement, maybe not, I’m not sure.
“I’m also thankful that SAF has a history of thinking more like me in regards to the fact that he is not one to believe in standing pat and not trying to find ways to improve and get even more production out of the team.”
I did point out I’m always happy to look for ways of improving our team, I just don’t think Huntelaar would improve our starting line-up, he would give us better bench options though. Gomez is more to my liking, I would be happy to have him start for us, but still it seems so wasteful to one season buy Tevez and the next buy someone to replace him.
March 27th, 2008 at 20:27
Conor; I did not say that Gomez did not play until January. I said that he was fighting injuries and didn’t really start scoring until January. Toni too has missed a half dozen or so games and the team did go through a slump in December. Other than that both he and Klose have filled the net. It’s impossible to go through an entire season without a lull or slump.
And you like to assume that the competition Bayern face is worse than what united face. I firmly believe that the worst clubs in the Bundesliga are far better than the 8 to 10 bottom feeders in the EPL. At least they constructively attempt to attack when playing a home game against a giant, rather than put 10 players behind the ball and defend for their lives like they do here. Last week Hansa Rostock beat Bayern by taking the game to them, not by sitting back and waiting for a one chance like Man City did. And I’ll have you know that Bayern have rested Toni for most of the UEFA ties this season, especially against the poor teams. Unlike United, they have a Podolski to turn to. Toni has played in very few German cup or UEFA games. This makes his goal tally even more impressive. Klose has struggled in the league but has had his way in those cup tourney’s. Still, he is scoring if not so much in the league. Rooney and Tevez haven’t been scoring much anywhere.
Simply put, Bayern would still be top of the league if they lost one of their three international strikers. Where would United be if they lost Ronaldo? Up Shite Creek without a paddle, that’s where. The big difference at the end of all this is simple. The trio of Klose, Toni and Podolski will in the end tally more than 40 goals together for just the Bundesliga season. Rooney, Tevez and Saha will not even reach 25. 25 is what I expect from a United striker on his own. Like I said, thank god for Ronaldo. Tevez is still a great super sub with his enthusiasm and other gifts. It’s just goal scoring consistently is not one of those gifts. At least he scores big goals, which like Ole is very valuable as a sub. I wouldn’t get rid of him, and he still would get a number of starts because you need to rotate to keep players fresh over the long haul.
Finally, as for Huntelaar, take a look at video of how he took his goals yesterday as well, how much heart and determination he showed in leading the Dutch to an amazing comeback. I really feel you severely undervalue hios abilities and his heart and determination. As for Gomez, well he’s just world class and the next great german super talent along with Toni Kroos. Things are looking very good for Germany’s international future.