Sep 18
Man Utd 0-0 Villarreal: Ronaldo Returns
I couldn’t get to see the entire match because of work commitments so I’d suggest readers to look over yesterday’s comments to get varied opinions on the game.
But, by and large, despite the result, I wouldn’t be too concerned about the result and I would take positives out of the game. Also from Ferguson’s comments post match, it appeared so too.
Firstly, we did play well overall. There was good movement and some players showed enough desire to want the ball. Park was especially impressive in that regard.
We didn’t have the spark for all our efforts, and it would have been a shame had Villarreal gone in front. Ronaldo’s entry changed that, but more on him later.
Nani’s performance was encouraging, and the likes of Berbatov would be encouraged by the consistency of his delivery over the crap service of the likes of Aaron Lennon.
Hargreaves started which was good to see because we need his presence in midfield against Chelsea. I would say the same of Fletcher too — and it would be unfair to drop, arguably, our most consistent performer of the season so far. He’s a big game player too — in the words of the boss himself — so I hope Fletch starts against Chelsea.
Jonny Evans was impressive and whilst Villarreal cannot possibly compare with the physicality of Chelsea, with Neville looking out of sorts, it looks like his steady performance today could tempt Fergie into taking a chance on him against Chelsea. I am not sure about the need for the chance, but I don’t see a better right back at the moment than Brown. Neville, despite my love for him, has done little to suggest he belongs in the first XI.
Finally, Ronaldo’s entry: the moment he warmed up and stepped on to the pitch he was applauded and more importantly I am pretty sure I heard Ronaldo chants [correct me if I'm wrong].
I am sure I am going to get detractors jumping on my back, but then I can’t be too bothered about saying what I want to say here anyway. The applause was heart warming, but Ronaldo chants already? Give me a break! Can players get away with anything then? Personally I just can’t imagine dedicating chants for him yet.
Ronaldo’s prescience proved right “When I play the fans will love me again“. You win Ronaldo. Oh well… it’s something I’ll have to live with then.
On to Chelsea and while this game was about testing waters with players returning from injury, I would have preferred a win like any fan would. Chelsea is a different beast in every sense of the word. John Terry got his card rescinded (un-fuckin’ believable!) and the US treasury is now our official shirt sponsor (since it now owns AIG). But more on that tomorrow.
Adios Red Chums!
Related items from Red Rants:- Rooney Out For A Month
- Manchester United’s 08/09 Champions’ League Opponents
- Man Utd Blog 2007/2008 Home Kit
- Manchester United 08/09 Away Kit Pics
- Glazers: Manchester United is not for sale
Tags: Match Reports · UEFA Champions' League
September 18th, 2008 at 9:36
Am not concern about the result though a win would have been better but our perofmance shows that we are coming up and with most of our first team players playing thier first match,i think we have a better chance,welcome ronaldo,i think he should start against chelsea and and he will bring more attacking options to out forward with berba also avalaible next,berba would have score his first goal if he was there but am pretty sure that he will get his goal against the blues….kudos to the lads,good performance and more improvemnet…
September 18th, 2008 at 10:02
it was an improved performance though i have to admit i was a bit frustrated we didnt make it count in the final third and of course the fuckng blind linesman who couldnt see park fouled twice in the area. the game also showed how we missed carrick in midfield
As you mentioned redranter Nani was good yesterday, dont remember him giving the ball away though i wished he could have passed the ball to rooney in the moments leading to Park being tripped in the box for the second time. I was also glad rooney and tevez stayed upfront for long periods of the game but they still drift wide to the flanks.
IMO, this is a game that berbatov could have flourished as the delivery of the ball into the box by Nani was good.I really wished that villareal could have been more aggresive(in my dreams maybe, they are a spanish club)so that i could have been in a better position to watch how Evans is under pressure. I have never seen him play so I cant picture how he will perform at the bridge if he is given a chance
off to the bridge game now. Lampard and Ballack have been waxing lyrical about how they gonna skin us alive. I really do hope they play their ’slick’
football as opposed to direct. the reason is that when they play this game they look less aggresive and the oppositon midfield is usually under less pressure and it will allow us to play our football. Worst case scenario 1-0 loss.
EDVS
Brown……ferdinand…….Evans……..Evra
Ron……..Scholes………Hargo……..Nani
Berbatov……….Rooney/Tevez
Bench
Fletch
sheasy
Kuzck
Park
Ando
tevez/rooney
possebon
September 18th, 2008 at 10:08
I forgot to mention. Berbatov has a history of giving chelsea defenders
nightmares and i hope these carries on in the red shirt. Am feeling optimistic now though i still have a bad feeling about the midfield. guess the anfield horror still lingers in my mind
September 18th, 2008 at 10:16
It was definitely an improvement over the second half at anfield. I still believe, that our best performance of the season came in the first 20 mins at anfield. There was some good build play and this augurs well.There was atleast some kind of ball retention after the pathetic show against the scousers.When you have players like tevez,park,nani and roon who are brilliant at taking runs off the ball, you need players in the mid who keep the ball and this where i thought fletcher was very good yesterday , he kept things ticking. I would like to see nani start against the rentboys .He looks like our best attacking threat going forward. I think fegie would almost certainly start with scholes and hargo at the centre and this sadly might leave fletcher out of the starting line up . I would be absolutely gutted if i see rooney deployed on the wings on sunday.
Evans ? wasnt tested enough.Not sure if would be able to handle drogba.
Does ronnie get the best out of wazza ?
September 18th, 2008 at 10:27
Most definitely yes ronaldo gets the best out of Rooney. They have incredble chemistry on the pitch and combine so well. Typical move: Ronaldo plays Rooney through, Rooney lays it off to Tevez and if he hadn’t overhit the pass Tevez would have scored
September 18th, 2008 at 10:39
We’re definitely on the up, looking at yesterday’s performance. I just fear if the Chelsea match has come just a bit too early for us. It would have been better if we had another match at OT in between, just to get the team to gel better.
Oh well, you can’t have everything your way…we’ll just have to go and grind out a win now.
September 18th, 2008 at 10:43
I don’t think ronaldo is going to start against the rentboys…can’t see it happening so soon into his return. I’ll be looking for him to come on as an impact sub midway through the second half, which is OK by me. I managed to only see the match for the last 30 to 35 minutes and i was pretty happy with Fletcher,Nani and Ronaldo’s (although he looked a little rusty) performances. Rooney looked good in bits and pieces but even i (a massive Rooney fan) think he’s just not doing it on a regular basis. I hope the guy gets himself sorted and starts to deliver the kind of performances we’ve seen from him the last 4 years. Berba should add to Wayne’s game this season and i think the partnership is at least for me more enticing than and a Berba/Tevez strike partnership. If Fergie is so desperate to accomodate all 3 strikers i’d rather see Tevez out wide because he’s the guy in better form than Rooney and he can be a more effective player in those positions.
Yesterday, convinced me of 2 things-
1) Giggs and Neville are liabilities on the pitch and should only play in the easier home games and defenitely not be involved in away games.
2) Anderson should not and i repeat should not be a regular starter. He is not good enough on the ball and i dont remember the last time he gave a telling contribution going forwards. Fletcher for me should start along with Hargreaves this Sunday.
I also liked the boy Evans he’s a really solid player, he impressed when he played for Sunderland last season and he is a really consistent performer whenever he plays at the International stage.
Come this Sunday i really fear for us because i get a really bad feeling we’re in for a mugging especially if Scholes and Giggs are involved. I would much rather get a 0-0 draw and just build on from there.
I hope Fergie plays a standard 4-4-2 with just Evans replacing Vidic.
In midfield I’d like to have Hargo (provided he’s fit) and Fletcher in the middle along with Park and Nani/Tevez on the wings, with Ronaldo coming on to replace Park around the hour mark.Upfront I’d like to see the Berbatov and Rooney in tandem.
My prediction is for us to either go down or sneak a draw this Sunday but lets see if we can move forward and mount a title challenge as the season progresses.
September 18th, 2008 at 10:45
Ronaldo’s contribution last night for me just confirmed his status as the world’s best player. I’ve personally found it hard to split Messi and Ronaldo in recent times but now it definately has to be Ronaldo in my mind. The impact he made was there for all to see. He is such a complete player whereas Messi is slightly one dimensional (although that one-dimension is pretty awesome!).
September 18th, 2008 at 10:56
Player Ratings
EVDS - 6 - had little to do, but did that comfortably. No real basis for an opinion, and nothing to suggest either that a corner has been turned or that the crisis has deepened. Holding pattern (unlike their keeper who barely held anything all night).
Neville - 6.5 - good to see Gary back with the armband, and his performance was perfectly acceptable. Looked very rusty going forward, particularly his crossing (which used to be such a strength). Not his worst game ever, though - I’m prepared to stick my neck out and say I’d play him against Chelski instead of Evans on the grounds of experience of the big day.
Rio - 7 - As good as ever, including bringing the ball out of defence. Shame about the missed chance early on.
Evans - 6.5 - Looked fine, but didn’t seem to have much of a physical presence. It was the lad’s first proper game so I’m not judging him, but I didn’t see an imposing centre back there - not sure he’s ready for a game like Chelski away yet. Hit the post and had one other decent header from a set play.
Evra - 7 - Little to do defensively, but was very lively going forward and linking up with Nani then Ronaldo. I still worry that he occasionally gets caught too far upfield too often, but then given Villareal’s negative tactics we could easily cope with 3-at-the-back. Wouldn’t like to see Joe Cole in those acres of space behind him, though.
Park - 8 - very lively first half, working hard as usual but also with an added touch of skill (on lovely turn in particular). Made intelligent runs, and should have had two penalties - one in particular was stonewall. Let’s give up on him ever learnnig to shoot properly, though.
Fletcher - 8 - Seems to be doing his best to turn into a box-to-box superman (well, super-Fletcher, anyway). Work rate was great all night, won and retained possession well, and was involved in some of our more intricate passing stuff upfield. Deserves a place against Chelski.
Hargreaves - 7.5 - controlled the midfield well, supporting either full-back when under pressure and using the ball quickly and simply. Sometimes got a bit over-enthusiastic and joined in attacks at the same time as Fletcher, leaving a yawning chasm behind; when you’re playing 4-4-2, one midfielder has to do some sitting to tidy up loose balls and co-ordinate the play.
Nani - 7 - Lively in possession, always looking to take people on and get balls into the box (where he’ll benefit from having Berba to aim at). Encouraging display, but didn’t actually create all that much or have any real shots on target. We’re definitely in Ronaldo season 2 territory - he still needs to learn how to make decent decisions; one particular example when he could have played Rooney in but instead carried the ball and then tried the wrong pass.
Rooney - 7.5 - What a difference. Roamed across the pitch, getting involved both deep and on the shoulder. This is what Rooney was made to do, and it was one of his better games. Put a goal on a plate for Tevez, whose shot was cleared off the line.
Tevez - 7 - Standard performance, but we’re still looking for a cutting edge to match all that industry. Rooney and Tevez currently look a million dollars out of the box, but just don’t get in the area often enough to net a heavy scoring tally. Highlighted why we bought Berba.
Ronaldo - 8 - the whole team was a different proposition when he was on. In his 30-minute cameo, he showed us glimpses of everything he can do except scoring, and god have we missed it. Most interesting, though, is the space that he creates for others - teams are inclined to double or treble up on him, leaving big holes for others to exploit. Great to have him back and I hope he’s fit enough to start against Chelski. Now is not the time for bitterness, now is the time ti kick-start our season.
Anderson - 7 - Lively in midfield, much better than against Liverpool, but like Nani needs to work on his decision-making in the final third. A couple of wild shots in good positions need to be shown to him in slow-motion so he gets the point. I like him as an impact sub at the moment, but the boy could also do with a proper break when we get Carrick back.
Fergie - 8 - back to 4-4-2, thank god. Everyone knew their role and played it, our midfield was much more effective and both Nani and Park ran their fullbacks around the block. I know the flexibility and fluidity of the 4-3-2-1 appeals greatly to Fergie, but when the going is rough he should keep it simple. I’m hoping for the same again against Chelsea, although away against one of the big four usually leads to a three-man central midfield.
September 18th, 2008 at 11:03
@sidharth
Not trying to take the discussion away from yesterday’s game , i think we definitely need scholes in the middle against the chavs.
We could see that yesterday , a mid filed of fletch and hargo falls short in terms of creativity. We needed scholes/carrick yesterday as they can find that pass which would split the defence. The rentboys defend well as a team and you need a mid fielder who can spray passes around.Carrick is the best we’ve got for that but sadly he is injured and scholesy hasnt definitely lost all the magic during the summer.But if fergie decides to go a little defensive following our ‘not so usual’performances, then as you said we might as well see fletch and hargo. In that case I would definitely want to see rooney playing through the middle behind berba.
September 18th, 2008 at 11:20
@scorp: Yes, Scholes can still produce the odd stand out performance but there are more chances of him being out muscled and out bullied come Sunday. We can’t afford to have our midfield run ragged because that would put too much pressure on the back 4, that is why i would rather have Fletcher and Hargo in the middle who are ready for a fight and will try and win every loose ball available. This is what i want but I’m pretty sure Fergie is going to stick with Scholes and maybe Hargreaves in the middle.
September 18th, 2008 at 11:33
@ Penguin. haha, you must be the first analyst to rate a manager
September 18th, 2008 at 11:34
@Penguin: Good ratings bro… the performance last night was certainly a step in the right direction. All we have to rectify are our attacking midfield options. Last term, we never really bothered about the fact that we always utilised two CMF’s because we used a fluid 4-4-2 which in truth was a 4-2-4. Our attackers were so mobile that the need for a genuine attackin mid was almost nil. It showed last night when Ronnie came on, we did not have to rely on Ando or fletch for creativity thru the middle.
So far this season, our fluid 4-2-4 has not been in use due to key members missing and that’s why we have seen the less than creative displays from midfield as even Ando and Scholes have become used to playing as CMF’s, they’ve lost that little edge for going forward. Carrick was really the only midfielder creating any significant attack playmaking, but he’s injured, so what now? I see carrick’s injury as a blessing in diguise (hear me out)…
We now have two DMF’s in Hargo and Fletch, and three CMF’s/AMF’s in Scholes, Ando and Possebon (not sure if Gibson will really feature for us much). Why not employ a balance of attack and defence in midfield. Say, Ando and Hargo; Scholes and Fletch, Possebon and Hargo/Fletch. Let the attacking midfielders get back to what they do best? Anderson and Scholes are gradually losing their attacking impetus because they are continually utilised as CMF’s, well if this continues, we will have no genuine AMF left in our team.
What do you say, do we give our attacking midfielders the role in which they thrive, and let the DMF’s stay behind and anchor the midfield, like they are supposed to do? Or do we keep on with the 4-2-4 system, now Ronnie, Nani and co are back?
September 18th, 2008 at 11:38
I think the whole team got a confidence boost when Ronaldo came on. I don’t think he made much of a difference in terms of what he actually did; he just inspired the others to play with more confidence and scared the football out of the opposition just by being there.
September 18th, 2008 at 11:47
@Andrei:Yes, he inspired his teammates to play better but in 25 minutes he carved up the opposition twice with relative ease. How can you say he didn’t actually do anything himself or do you expect him to score every time he walks on to the fucking pitch.
September 18th, 2008 at 11:59
Neville looked out of sorts? Come on RR, I thought he had a decent game. He looked very confident and comfortable for me. I was so glad to see him back. Personally, I would wanna see Gary-Rio-Brown-Evra as the back four. But, Evans’ solid performance will give Sir Alex more selection headaches.
September 18th, 2008 at 12:16
@raj k: Neville played OK. The thing is, he is very one-dimensional, in that he just crosses the ball, which is not a problem. However, since Wes came into the squad, we have seen more intricate link-up play btw him and the wingers, a more solid defensive showing and more speed. All in all, he offers more than the Gaz.
Our game has developed from the typical english style of ‘Cross the ball’ into a more intricate, on the ground style which breaks down home and foreign defences easier than the long ball method. Brown is compatible with both styles, whereas the Gaz is pretty muched versed in just the long ball method.
He is our captain and deserves his chance, but tbh, Wes is the better option for the game against Chelsea with Rio and Evans paired in the centre.
September 18th, 2008 at 13:00
i think fergie should adopt this formation for the chelsea trip
EDV
BROWN/OSHEA RIO BROWN/EVANS EVRA
RONNIE SCHOLES HARGO NANI/TEVEZ
BERBA ROONEY/TEVEZ.
i still believed with the way we pass ball yesterday,and with our performance generally this lads can come out with victory at chelsea cos nothing impossible.
September 18th, 2008 at 13:19
@Sidharth: he did two good things: he slipped Rooney through before the goal-line clearance and crossed the ball for Evans. Thank you very much, even Park did more than that.
I’m not criticizing the guy. I hate him, but he has value and some class and he made a difference like I said, but he did very little himself. With him, he brought insipartion to the other players on the field. The game changed once he came on and he didn’t get that many touches of the ball.
Rooney - better than Ronaldo.
September 18th, 2008 at 13:21
After what I’ve seen on saturday and wednesday …..its my opinion that Man United should put the best combintaion of XI players than putting XI so called super stars on the field ….
Putting a attacking & midfield combo of Tevez, Rooney, berbatov, Ronaldo wont work 
…and if United don’t want to be run over by Chelsea hopefully they will field a steely midfield able to retain the ball and hussle the opposition when they have the ball.. 
I’ve seen many criticizing Park, fletcher, O’Shea, Brown ..but according to me these players have a great balancing effect on the team..
September 18th, 2008 at 13:39
@Andrei: mate even i hate the guy and i am of the biggest Rooney fans out there but even i don’t agree with that slogan of “Rooney - better than Ronaldo”. I mean c’mon you’re going to be laughed out of a room if you come up with that kind of a bone head comment.
September 18th, 2008 at 13:58
@Sidharth: Well mate, so we find an HONEST Rooney fan at last, good for you Bro. I agree he isn’t doing it for us for a while on a REGULAR basis, for whatever reason.
RD, if you don’t want to hear comments on Rooney and his form for UNited, I would invest in ear plugs mate
. I am not going to stop commenting on any player, who I don’t feel is making a contribution to the efficiency and potency of the team. Sorry Bro.
September 18th, 2008 at 14:01
@Vignesh: Do we have a STEELY midfield mate?. If so, please enlighten me. Who would you play Bro?.
September 18th, 2008 at 14:08
at mate am rooney fan,i like rooney than ronaldo but roniie is better than rooney, both of them compliment eachother on the filed of play….whe both of them are on form you will find it difficult to choose whose is better among them but roonie is better..
September 18th, 2008 at 14:08
@Craig Mc: i have 3 men who should deployed in midfield to hustle Chelsea and they are Hargo,FLetch and Park…..
September 18th, 2008 at 14:10
park was a beast, never expected this but man was he so good that game..
ronnie i think should be an impact sub, let stick to our 442 and let us maintain our balance, just see tev/roon and ronaldo as impact subs. that would be yummy!
oh well, i wish the lads the best. End those rentboys’ streak!!! berbie to score.
September 18th, 2008 at 14:24
Agree - Neville should not start against Chelsea. Brown brings more to the table and is also better with headers during corners. BUT, Evans again didnt have to do much with Villareal as compared to what he will have to do with Chelsea. So Brown should be in teh center and the right can be Gaz or even RDS or JOS.
Not to sound pessimistic, but Villareal were making us look good by their lousy performance. Chelsea will be at least 5-10 times better than them so we really need our best squad. Reports suggest Berba might not be fit so 4-4-2 will be the only option. I love Park, pity he cant be in with everyone getting back to fitness! Park shouldve won at least a penalty in the Villareal game!
GAZ/JOS——RIO—-BROWN—-EVRA
RONNIE—-SCHOLES—-HARGO—NANI
——-TEvEZ—ROONEY
Ronaldo - Better than Rooney. Anyday.
September 18th, 2008 at 14:46
Berba still doubtful for the bridge!
Shame after seeing his impressive record against the Rent Bastards!
September 18th, 2008 at 14:51
If we can get a miracle and beat Chelski down at the Kremlin, and WIN our game in hand, we will be on level points with them. I don’t think we have a chance of beating them to be honest, BUT I hope the lads utterly prove me wrong. If we play for a draw, I think we could be in for a hammering. We have to go all out for a win. Well, anybody honestly think we are good at playing cagey football, when our defence is being run ragged and pressured for full 90 minutes plus?. At home against the Barcas I suppose, and with our terraces packed with home fans screaming like lunatics - with luck we can
. Whatever midfield we play, have GOT to play TIGHT on their midfield, but then I don’t need to tell you all that. For all the Penguin reports of yesterdays match, I don’t agree with his markings, (sorry Penguin Bro) and especially Rooney’s game mark. I would like to know if Penguin was at the game at all, for one reason only I ask. All around our section on the terraces people were PISSED off to the max with the Roon. Anyway, you all know what I think, so no more comment from me about him. He had an opportunity to play in his position last night, and didn’t do so. So no more feckin excuses please. Anyway, I will be Lager happy after a few pre match drinks down at the Kremlin this weekend. I will still be singing and chanting my heart out, even for the Roon, if he is wearing that Devils shirt in the fire of the Chelski colosseum. My mates and I might moan on the OT terraces about players, with the United family all around us, BUT NEVER IN AWAY GAMES. That would not be good form would it?. I will criticise on a United family rant blog though, because as RR said, this is a place to vent your frustrations - thanks RR 
.
September 18th, 2008 at 15:03
@Craig Mc: I wasn’t at the game, but I watched the whole thing on TV.
What exactly were people’s gripes about Rooney’s performance? For me, he influenced the play across the pitch, he made runs and picked passes, and was involved in most of the good stuff we played.
September 18th, 2008 at 15:08
Sidarth, yeah Bro, Hargo (if fit), Fletch and Park are about the best available hustlers we have in our midfield at present. Anderson used to be one of them too, but he seems to have lost a bit of that fiery combat-manship. Maybe due to him just coming back from injury, and long, LONG extended playing season, with Olympics and Brazil national games. Fletch and Park will always get stuck in, and Park does get us a lot of free kicks around the box. It would be so magic for our midfield to outdo Chelski’s, bit its a BIG ask. I just would like any kind of scrambled win in this game. Lampard and Ballacks mouthing, just like before CL final, what they were going to do to us, left them embarrased and crying though, and EATING those words. Would love a repeat, but they always do us at their place. Usually some dodgy refereeing help, like the Penalty they got last season, and the one we didn’t. What’s the betting, those feckers will be hassling the ref all the bloody match and getting away with it.
September 18th, 2008 at 15:25
@Red Ranter: Are you an american? i just notice the ads are american..
September 18th, 2008 at 15:31
@Craig Mc: at least you stated that you are frustrated, cause that can only explain your cynicsm, especially towards rooney, considering he had a better game than tevez and most others last night.
Yesterday, before Ronnie came on, we were playing with two DMF’s and no one to playmake thru the middle. Rooney got involved, as he has been doing for the past seasons, but lacked that creative partner - Ronaldo - that usually shares his vision and awareness. As soon as Ronnie came on last nite, it was like a different rooney, he assumed his natural role, suddenly the intricate play btw them resumed and rooney placed a goal on a platter for tevez, which he missed.
Since Nistelrooy left, combined with Saha’s injuries, we gradually began to play a 4-2-4, with the holy trinity of roovez and ronnie making up that 4 last season. Rooney had a sort of free SS role in attack, and it worked pretty well. So far this season, with Ronnie missing, it has been different, Rooney has either had to go up top to accomodate tevez or play wide to provide a ronaldo-like effect on the wings. He obviously, due to no fault of his own, has not been able to do that perfectly and the constant criticsm has taken a toll on his confidence. Look at how one game in his preferred position (SS) with a foil (heskey) and a player on his wavelength (walcott) produced magic from him.
His vision and awareness will compliment Berbatov moreso than Tevez, and with ronnie back, he finally has that player that shares his vision. Rooney is not the best at dribbling, but his playmaking, awareness and vision is second to none, that is why he shines with people on his wavelength. I just hope we play Berba and him upfront on sunday, cuz we need someone to provide opportunities for Berbatov and Ronnie.
People that single him out for criticsm, especially when he puts in an above average performance really surprise me. He was close to our best player on the pitch last night, yet he still gets the full grunt for the team’s average showing..
September 18th, 2008 at 15:32
I think we might set up like this:
Nev Evans Rio Evra
Fletcher Scholes Hargreaves (Plus two from Park, Rooney, Nani or Ronaldo)
Tevez
United 1 - 0 Evra or Hargo to score.
September 18th, 2008 at 15:33
@Penguin: Mate, the main comment was that he NEVER plays where he should be bloody playing, in and around the 18 yard box. That he keeps occupying positions (particularly) out wide, when we have wide players to do that. There cannot be any criticism of course when Fergie shoves him out wide, but Rooney is not effective out there. They complained that he is trying to be everywhere (box to box), when often if we get possesion in our end, he is not upfield where he should be to pass too. That he doesn’t trust the defenders to do their job, and that’s why you oft times find him as far back as OUR corner flag, doing what the fullback should be doing. Because of his all out attempts to be found in every position, he is knackered when it comes to actually finding energy to kick the ball AS HE USED TOO, from just outside the goal line, and get it on target. Most fans weren’t just going on last nights match, but on the whole of pre season, and up to now this season. We were tuned into different radio programmes and listening for ongoing happenings in the other group games, and the commentators were all saying, nobody has a clue anymore as to why Rooney is all over the place, and his game is ineffective. Even the ex pros of Man Utd were saying it. The MUTV post match debate, both Stepney and Parker were saying Rooney should be left out for a bit, to reflect on his game. Maybe we and them are all wrong Penguin, and you and the other Rooney fans right. Time will tell. So much else was being said, that I found it unusual for United fans to be so disgruntled about a player. Same as with England mate, the Roon can have one or two great games, and so many ordinary ineffective ones, same for us at present. I keep wondering when we are going to see again the Rooney we know and loved. Tev is another who with the opportunities he has been getting, should have a far better goal return, instead of all the wayward shots. I know you all think I am a Rooney hater, but I’m not. I just want to see our strikers where they should be, and getting us some goals, because we cannot go on making chances and not taking them. If we want to finish in the top 4 that is. Excuse me for caring, but shouldn’t we expect those who are our strikers to score more goals???.
September 18th, 2008 at 15:36
@Penguin: hey penguin, wanted to know what your views were regarding my points on comment 13?
September 18th, 2008 at 15:41
@Gabriel: I agree with all that.
September 18th, 2008 at 15:55
@Gabriel: Roll your eyes as much as you like mate, but I do not agree with your take on Rooney’s performance for the first hour last night. I missed the half hour when Ronnie came on, and if he made Rooney look good again, well good for him. If Rooney can only play when players are ON HIS WAVE LENGTH, then what happens if Ronnie does leave???. We have to scour the country to find a Rooney wave length player?. When ex pros, especially United ex pros are saying that Rooney should be left on the bench, something that you hardly ever hear from the pros on MUTV, because of fear of Fergie wrath, then it is time to face a few home truths. Like I said though, the people around me in the stands weren’t just talking about this one game in the debate about Rooney. Please don’t insult my intelligence either mate, by saying I am just singling Rooney out for blame. In the striker department yes I am. But if Ronnie was in the team instead of Rooney and was not doing it for us, he would get it in the ear as well. We are not all saints like you Gabriel, when it comes to fighting Rooneys or other players corners, some of us are devils mate. Shame if his confidence is so easily affected by fan comments, which I doubt he even cares anyway. Park was better than Rooney last night, BY FAR. In the box, two penalty shouts turned down. Thats what I want to see. Sorry if that upsets some of you Rooney fans.
September 18th, 2008 at 16:26
@Gabriel: I’m not sure that people do lose their attacking impetus if they’re played deeper. In any case, I think those categorisations sometimes mask the reality - Scholes, for example, plays a much deeper-lying role now than when he was in his pomp; whilst Fletcher is box-to-box and sometimes scores goals just because he’s had the sheer energy to make an extra man at the back post.
I think we need the right balance of tackling and creativity, I do agree with you about that. But I would prefer to see a 4-4-2 (or 4-2-4 as you put it) against Chelski - and on currently form I’d go for Scholes and Fletcher.
September 18th, 2008 at 16:42
@Sidarth: Anderson should not and i repeat should not be a regular starter. He is not good enough on the ball and i dont remember the last time he gave a telling contribution going forwards. Fletcher for me should start along with Hargreaves this Sunday.
i dont reckon u watched the liverpool match where he threaded several passes that became chances? the first of which was a goal by tevez? he set berba up to make the goal for tevez… it counts because it was just those three involved
also.
Rooney - Better than Ronaldo (when put behind a main striker)
haha
anyway… i just hope we shape up… our season always starts horribly
September 18th, 2008 at 16:49
@Craig Mc: Why does Rooney deserve to be benched over Tevez? He was better than Tevez from where I was sitting and no offense but you do get as good a view (if not better) on TV. And all the ‘experts’ on the Irish broadcaster thought that Rooney was good, and one of them used to play for Liverpool! Rooney is yet to play in his best position this season and Fergie said that the signing of a striker would change that. Putting pressure on him to score won’t make him play any better. He had similar stats to Messi last season and yet he is Rubbish and Messi is the best in the world. Living in England I think a lot of the media bullshit may have gotten through to you. The media love to jump on player’s backs unless they are a) from London or b) Steven Gerrard.
btw Anderson has lost what he had last season and you’ll make excuses for him
September 18th, 2008 at 16:52
@Craig Mc: first of all, no one is insulting your intelligence! In ur comment, you said various people, including united ex-pros and fans were calling for rooney’s head, so i responded to that.
Second of all, i’m not just a Rooney fan, but a Manchester United fan. I support the whole team and whenever any player is getting undeserved/unjustified stick, it really grinds my gears. So far, it has been Rooney this, Rooney that… if people can’t realise that Rooney is suffering the effects of his versatility, then…
Rooney is a supporting striker, has and always will be. In Everton, that was where he played; In his breakout performance for England, that was where he played. This is his preferred and most productive position. When he came to United, he played the same position, behind Nistelrooy/Saha. That’s not to say he can’t play other positions, in fact, he can and he does pretty well. Unfortunately, this versatility has slowed his progress as a prodigous talent.
During the nistelrooy years, Rooney thrived having that foil to play off and created numerous chances plus got into goal-scoring chances too. When ruud left, he did similar with Saha and with Larsson when saha got his injuries. His goal and assist tally’s were always on the rise. Then came last year, we had no fit No.9 and we bought Tevez who was identical to rooney. That was the reason everyone said it wouldn’t work, because both were SS. However, Fergie pushed Rooney up top, but still gave him a free role, hence our 4-2-4 formation. Although not his favoured position, Rooney did very well and despite several injuries and missing almost a third of the season, was still our highest assist provider and third highest goal scorer.
So far this season, with the key component of that 4-2-4 formation - Ronaldo - missing and him still not playing in his preferred position, Rooney has found it hard to be as productive as usual. He seems to be losing his tenacity and confidence from all this shuffling about and constant criticsm in the media. For England, i don’t really care, but when t affects his United game, it really ticks me off. Fergie knows he has played a big part in this and that’s why he made those comments early on this season.
So far, Fergie has failed to come good on his promise, maybe due to unexpected injuries but Rooney is still not playing in that position he did when he first arrived at United. The reason we bought Berba and Manucho was because of this. It’s like people (and I am not specifically referring to you) don’t realise that he is constantly expected to produce stellar performances while not playing in his most suited position! just like expecting Nani to play spectacularly and consistently as a CF or SS.
It seems like Capello has returned him to his preferred role in the England setup and with Berba and Manucho getting fit, it seems Fergie will do the same. Maybe then, people will stop criticising him for producing above-average performances in ill-suited positions.
September 18th, 2008 at 16:56
mate rooney did his best yesterday and i bet you,you will see more of him when berba,tevez and roonie fully back,you will see rooney perform best among them okay.
September 18th, 2008 at 16:56
@Gabriel: Again, hear hear.
September 18th, 2008 at 17:02
@john freakin’ o’shea: The american ads are because it’s an American advertising sports network even the Republik of Mancunia site has the same set of ads. I do live in the US though.
September 18th, 2008 at 17:14
@Penguin: I’ve got a hunch as to why Chelsea do well at home. They have a compact pitch and their 4-3-3 formation is perfect for it. There is not a lot of space, so their three-man midfield can easily close down on people in the middle of the park. The two atacking midfeilders can move about freely, cuz they have a DMF to take care of the little space left, that’s why lampard constantly gets into the box. The wingbacks can run up and down the wings without having to worry about the large space left behind. The wingers are in reality SS, because the wingbacks are the ones that create width, while the WF/SS are just there as extra strikers that also distract defenders so lampard can get into the box unmarked.
Mourinho, it has to be said, was quite tactically astute! makes me sick
. However, how do we beat such a compact formation on such a compact pitch?
September 18th, 2008 at 17:21
@Gabriel: I can’t feckin wait for Rooney to play in what you call his PREFERRED playing position. Then we shall see, and IF I can then see (on a consistent level) what you, and Rooney’s beloved Penguin can see, I will hold my hands up. Rooney had more ‘one on one’chances with the opposition goalkeeper last season, than anyone else in the United team, and missed so many of them. He missed shots my grandad could have scored. Anyway, I will bide my time, and you can bide yours. Meanwhile I agree with all the concerns of the ex pros.
September 18th, 2008 at 17:22
@Gabriel: I’ve got a hunch as to why Chelsea do well at home.
Also, perhaps, because they are the home side?
September 18th, 2008 at 17:23
@Craig Mc: [...]Then we shall see, and IF I can then see (on a consistent level) what you, and Rooney’s beloved Penguin can see [...]
You mean Penguin’s beloved Rooney. I thought Rooney’s beloved was Colleen
September 18th, 2008 at 17:24
@Wink: agree with the Pool goal and maybe the pass he made to Tevez after they equalised in the first half, but can you honestly tell me that Anderson for all his running is really that good a user of the football….most of the evidence suggests a resounding no!!I honestly think he needs to take a good hard look at himself and figure how he has to work out these glitches in his forward play to be a regular starter at United.
@ Gabriel: Agree with everything you said mate!! Overall i do think Ronaldo is the better player but when it comes to creating chances, picking out the perfect pass and sheer tenacity and work rate Rooney is second to none. Lets not forget that Wayne is a confidence player and hopefully this season with Berbatov as his foil he can blossom into the world beater we all know he can and damn well should be. I don’t agree with Craig regarding him staying in the penalty box all the time. The man need to a goal and i am pretty sure once he does get one we’ll see the Rooney we all know and love.Yesterday, he was pretty good in the bits of the match i saw, picking out passes and setting Tevez up with a gift.
Rooney great but the slave unfortunately/fortunately (whichever way you look at it) just a little bit better
September 18th, 2008 at 17:27
@Red Ranter: My hunch is, that the brutal verbal abusing of referees by Chelsea players, and the effectiveness of it at getting them free kicks and penalties has a lot to do with their home wins
.
September 18th, 2008 at 17:35
@Red Ranter: yeah, i meant to imply that
…
@Craig Mc: and that too..
..anyways, how do you guys reckon we beat them at their home, considering they have such an effective system there?
September 18th, 2008 at 17:40
@Gabriel: kick them rentboys of the fucking park…..oh fuck!! thats what they do. I suggest kidnap Abrahmovic and the ransom is to lose to us or we pop his head off. Me thinks that should defenitely work…don’t you??!!
September 18th, 2008 at 17:43
Sidarth, just like Gabriel and Penguin, you are a glutton for punishment. Confidence player my arse, the world class players are always confident, and arrogant most of them in their ability. Could you imagine Ronnie lacking confidence in his ability, because he was getting a little criticism?. No I thought not. Ronnie has been criticised to the full apex of criticism by most of the United faithful, many saying he’s rubbish, selfish, egotistical, not a team player etc etc feckin etc. Yet he still comes out and proclaims he is a great player, and will get greater. He BELIEVES you see. Players who have the ability to be absolutel world class, but somehow come short of it in the end, a lot of it has to do with BELIEVING and continuing to believe you are the best. If head goes down every time somebody says they feel you are not where you should be, then you stopped believing. I don’t believe the Roon believes he is or will be one of the best in the world. Whereas Tevez, and even Nani are all over the press recently saying we are going to work until we bleed, so that we can be named amongst the best players of world football. That’s a philosophy I believe in, and I have never heard Rooney say that about himself. If you have belief in your ability, then you can go a long way to becoming the player, everybody else but you believes you can be, and should be on the way too. I haven’t seen any progress in Rooney, he was magic when he came to us, so I cannot see things the way Gabriel, Penguin and you do. I am willing to stand alone against the Roon fans on this issue though, but I hope Rooney proves me 100% wrong, because I don’t get any joy out of seeing him still where he is.
September 18th, 2008 at 17:49
@Sidharth:
What do you think this is, the Godfather? wait, Abramovich is in the mafia, isn’t he?? 
…
Guess he’ll have done a couple of kidnappings himself, so might know how to prevent one
Maybe we should play ‘em off the park, turn on the joga bonito
September 18th, 2008 at 17:50
And by the way folks, if Rooney cared about being among the greatest players in the game, he would have been like his fellow professionals, and not returned to training looking like a beached whale from overload of weight increase, smoking, and drinking. He insulted his team mates by coming back to preseason training in such a state. Did any other of the players come back like that - NO they feckin didn’t. If Rooney really wants to be a great footballer, he would keep himself in the best shape he could be in ALWAYS. I know many of the United fans (apart from Rooney obsessives) who believe this.
September 18th, 2008 at 17:56
@Gabriel: Like I said Bro, pray for a miracle
. If our midfield can somehow outplay or stifle theirs, I think we may have a fair chance. We better have a feckin goalscorer on the field though 
.
September 18th, 2008 at 18:00
@Red Ranter:
, yeah Bro I meant that Penguins beloved Rooney 
. Sometimes my fingers are faster than my thoughts 
.
September 18th, 2008 at 18:04
@Craig Mc: There’s a difference between belief and confidence. Belief is when the players knows that he is good enough to get out of a situation and I am pretty sure Rooney believes (as do I) that he will get out of his goal scoring rut sooner rather than later.He still contributes immensely to other facets of the team’s performance
A player’s confidence can be shaken if everyone on the outside starts to doubt him. Give him a fucking break mate, he is human!!! I still believe that him being made the scape goat by the media has really started to get to him. Plus Fergie playing him everywhere but his preferred position (this is an important point mate don’t deny it…it is not an excuse) makes it more difficult for a guy to play himself out of a rough spot.
I do believe that the next 2 years will determine whether Rooney will be regarded as a GREAT OR A VERY GOOD PLAYER who never fulfilled his potential.
September 18th, 2008 at 18:06
@Craig Mc: Not sure if we should apply a 4-4-2 or a 4-3-3.
If we play 4-3-3, i’ll go for, Fletch, hargo and scholes in midfield, with ando comin on for scholes in the second. Nani, Berba and Tevez upfont with Ronnie, Roon and Park as subs.
If we go 4-4-2, it’ll be scholes and fletch/hargreaves in midfield, with Ando/fletch/hargo comin on later. Berbatov and Rooney upfront, with tevez comin on later. Nani and park wide with Ronaldo and Giggs as subs.
Back four for both formations will be Brown, Rio, Evans and Evra.
September 18th, 2008 at 18:32
I have said this time and time again the wide players and the central midfield are doing nothing, it’s all fine blaming rooney and tevez but you can’t have your cake and eat it its give and take, you can’t expect rooney and tevez to expect to win games on their own they need the service is well they are forwards, I don’t know what is wrong with fergie does he need new glasses because park done nothing he is just awful awful awful, fletcher was abysmal Hargreaves was nothing special and nani was just useless. We all know ronaldo had a great game last night but special mention to Anderson who just give united that extra thrust in midfield that was lacking in the game.
if fergie was honest he knows in the summer of 2005 and 2007 he should have snapped up ramos and van der vaart who would have cost 22 million between them in 2005, ribery torres and bale were available would have cost about 48 million and that is a fact because I checked their transfer fees they cost. Park nani tevez are good well park is average but if fergie went for those players we would be seeing a better squad today plus rossi could have been kept. In the same summer of 2007 heinze smith Richardson Silvestre solkjaer o shea gone money would have covered some of those buys is well. And onto O shea why is this average joke still playing in a united shirt, it’s all well having squad players but when he plays he is a car crash waiting to happen.
September 18th, 2008 at 18:33
@Sidharth: Mate you don’t get where the critics are coming from do you?. Even when he is played in his PREFERRED position, HE DOESN’T STAY THERE!. Why do you think Capello gave him a mouthful several times during the last England game, both him and Joe Cole?. Because he doesn’t stay in his preferred position, but is back again all over the field. Find a post of mine where I have lambasted him, when Fergie has played him out of position. I don’t mate, but I will continue to highlight it, when he oft has played in his preferred position but starts to gypsy nomad all over the field. Try and see where his critics are coming from instead of trying to shield his arse all the time Sidarth mate. They do have a point you know.
September 18th, 2008 at 18:34
Looks like Grognard is off again!
Looks like all this Doom and Gloom Got him!
Anyway! Here should be the starting lineup for Sunday!
EVDS
Brown Evans Rio Evra
Nani Hargreaves Scholes C. Ronaldo
Rooney
The BERBA
Tevez and Anderson as Impact Subs just like the Arsenal game at OT 2-1!
Oh Who am i Kidding! When will Fergie get it that he HAS to bench Tevez/Rooney!
But Rooney should play on Sunday!
September 18th, 2008 at 18:40
@Craig Mc: You’re true! But I say this once and I will say it again! It is Fergie’s Fault what Rooney has become! He has started taking advantage of the boy! He seriously has turned him into shit! All of Rooney’s distinctive qualities shooting etc etc are not found in him anymore! And it is Fergie’s fault!
September 18th, 2008 at 18:42
@Gabriel: Sounds alright to me Gabriel. But I don’t think Ronnie will be given a full match. Park may well start in Ronnie’s place in your system. Is Berba fit then, I was hearing he wasn’t?. I think Fergie might go with O’Shea or Gary at Rt Back and move Wes into the centre, because Wes/ Rio are used to each other. O’Shea needs a game, and he never does bad for us in the big matches, he can sneak us a goal. I just don’t want the long trek home having LOST bro, so I hope we can get something from the game. Anybody know who the referee is?.
September 18th, 2008 at 18:46
@Red Diablo: Tell me why you think it is Fergie’s fault alone Red Diablo mate?. I am sure Fergie doesn’t tell the Roon to go on his gypsy wanderings
.
September 18th, 2008 at 18:51
@Red Diablo:
, Grognard is the King of doom and gloom according to some people. I just see him as someone with legitimate complaints sometimes. He doesn’t mince his words that’s for sure. Gotta admire that 
.
September 18th, 2008 at 18:56
@Craig Mc: Dude it is Fergie’s fault!
Point A:- Fergie has been sacrificing Rooney for the past two years now since RVN left! Remember Barcelona last year? Yeah Rooney was an attacker not a full back last year! Oh how about the other games last year? And what about this year? After admitting his mistakes in the summer! Fergie Finally buys the coveted No. 9 ! Berbatov! And what does he do to Rooney at Liverpool? He shifts him out on the right and plays Tevez in the middle! Now it is common fact that Tevez is much better on the wing than Rooney!
Point B:- “I am sure Fergie doesn’t tell the Roon to go on his gypsy wanderings” as for that, if Rooney does go for his wanderings
isnt it Fergie’s job to lam blast him that he isnt supposed to wander around?
Face it Fergie the MAIN factor in Rooney’s decline! He has sacrificed and wasted the Boy’s energy and Potential!
On a lighter note Mrs. Rooney should give Rooney a sex ban or something till he gets his form up!
That might work!
September 18th, 2008 at 19:01
@Craig Mc: Yeah! The Problem is where is he? I mean now all of us are in a state of doom and gloom! Come on Grog take over the realm! Make us all more Miserable!
September 18th, 2008 at 19:07
A definite improvement in midfield which led to quite a few chances…
Against Chelsea I would like to see a lineup which Chelsea would least like to face…I think they would love to see a two man midfield with Scholes in it…when Chelsea moves get broken down they will be so far into United’s half that they will always have the speed and fitness to regroup before United counter, and the slow build up won’t work against them. Unless we get lucky.
What they won’t want to face is a packed midfield with players hassling them and closing them down, no room for the slower players.
To get any scoring chances the ball needs to be won in the middle of the park and counter rapidly before they get all of their meatheads back behind the ball.
A centre midfield composed of three out of Anderson, Park, Hargreaves and Fletcher. Nani and Ronaldo on the wings, and hopefully Berbatov up top
September 18th, 2008 at 19:23
@magno: Without Rooney or Tevez? Yeah like its going to happen!
September 18th, 2008 at 19:31
@Red Diablo: Mate, a sex ban?
. Don’t you know that sex burns up more calories per sec, and gives you more energy and strength than any other exercise 
. Best thing for keeping in shape!.
Some people on here like the quiet, calm life Diablo, and who can blame them. There is enough misery for them in all of our posts
.
September 18th, 2008 at 19:36
@Craig Mc: Okay a little poser for you Tevez wanders from his position as much as Rooney does so why don’t you Rooney haters have a problem with that??
As for him wandering about i honestly don’t have a problem with that because he can influence the play from anywhere and still get into goal scoring positions when needed.
The problem with your criticism is your saying that Rooney should pray in and around the penalty box and stay there…well that’s what a front striker does. A natural number 10 plays in the hole between midfield and the top