Nov 16
Man Utd 5-0 Stoke City: Right Response, But Still a Long Way to Go
A home game. Five goals banged in. The frustrations of last week should slightly be assuaged. But it won’t, because the same Arsenal team lost to Villa yesterday. Makes our defeat at the Emirates seem all the more perplexing.
But let’s not go there now.
There were plenty of good things to talk about today. The scoreline would obviously suggest that we have been dominant. And for once, that was true. Ronaldo returned to his free kick scoring form, and while he did a fair bit of running at the opposition, he wasn’t getting too much help from the referee.
Fergie started a back four of O’Shea, Vidic, Evans and Evra; Rio’s injury forced the manager’s hand, giving Jonny Evans another chance to prove his mettle. The Northern Irishman continues to impress, seemingly not awed by the occasion — of having to step in for Rio — and giving another nerveless, assured performance. I would be gutted if we sold him at any point before seeing him develop fully — and I think he is going to be a big player for us.
Michael Carrick was another of the big players for us yesterday. He controlled the game, and topped it off with a left footed bullet from the edge of the area. (Quick question: did he have a left foot before this?) But a part of the credit must also go to Darren Fletcher, who is doing what Owen Hargreaves was bought to do. The boy was full of energy and is doing his reputation no harm with another good midfield performance. In the past he used to turn it off in the odd big game or two. Now he’s become a lot more consistent — which bodes well for us. It also freed Carrick to do his thing, and even make forays forward.
The other two things I wanted to talk about was on the introduction of new faces — Welbeck and Manucho. The former is definitely not a new face, as followers of our reserve league might argue. But at 17 years of age, he made a dream start to his United career, with a superbly taken goal. It’s stuff like this that make people sit up and take notice. Of course, being English, it won’t take the media too long to declare him to be the next Pele, so we need to keep ourselves on the ground and hope he’s got a lot more than yesterday’s screamer. Welbeck can appear ungainly at times, though, and he does have questionable balance and first touch, from games I’ve seen him play for the reserves. But he’s only 17, so there is a lot to feel optimistic about.
Manucho needs more games before one can pass judgements on his quality. He was involved in Welbeck’s goal, and his movement was impressive yesterday. But I will need to see a lot more before I can comment on him. We need more situations like yesterday (when we are at least a couple goals up) to be able to blood the likes of Welbeck, Evans and Manucho, so there’s hoping.
Finally, we still are eight points off the pace with tough games coming up against Villa, City and Spurs. Game in hand or not, there is still a lot of catching-up to do, as well as a lot of hoping — that Liverpool and Chelsea will simultaneously implode — to do. Till then, we have to be winning games to harbour hopes of winning the league.
Related items from Red Rants:
- Man Utd v Stoke: Preview
- Rooney Out For A Month
- Heinze loses arbitration for Liverpool move, what’s next for him and United?
- Glazers: Manchester United is not for sale
- Man Utd v Wigan
Tags: Match Reports
November 16th, 2008 at 12:08
First real match report since Hull game innit?
Good article. Some good points. I think Evans, Rafael and Welbeck are showing some things that must worry the likes of Rio, Wes, Neville and Tevez. Rio has looked really off the pace this season, and Evans is showing himself like a young Rio sith the skills of two seasons ago. Not there still, but getting better. Rafael is what I must say the most promising RB Ive seen since Richards or Ramos. He is a complete RWB and if he gets the jumping skille of Ronaldo and Evra I wouldnt care if he is a shrimp, he would be the complete RB. Welbeck is a player that I have high hopes for. I want either him or Campbell to become first team regulars in United after some years. They are both English, from the United academy and are very quick, have an eye for goal and are really mature in their movement for their age. And it a long time since Ive been so proud of a goal, of any kind! And to see that, a 17 year old Manchester kid, born and bred, coming from the youth system, scoring a goal of that kind, in front of the Stretford End, with his family on the stand, is a really big moment for any United fan. That is the stuff that dreams are made of: 17 years old, League debut, playing for the club you have supported since you were a kid, on the best stadium in the world, the best fans, family there, thinking about scoring every day, and when you score, its what will probably be the goal of the season. Dream stuff! 
About the game, we dominated in the air against what must be the most physical team in the League. Not even Bolton can compare to them. Vidic was immense, Fletcher and Carrick ran the show, And Ronaldo was showing the form of last season. I know we only played against a team that doesnt know how to play football, but this win will give massive confidence for all the players. And with games against the likes of Villareal, Aston Villa and Shitty coming up, confidence is much needed. Great performance by the lads, and this win will be vital come may. On goal diffference and the scoreres. Ronaldo scoring two free-kicks, Berba scoring again, and Carrick getting another goal(he has now equaled last seasons total) and especially Welbeck scoring will be much more important than any of you can imagine. UNITED!!!
November 16th, 2008 at 12:12
Question: Why is it being played Internationals this midweek? No reason! Most stupid shit so far this season.
November 16th, 2008 at 12:14
“The Norwegian Vålerenga striker Moa, who was their top scorer and best player in 2008, is watched closely by Manchester United. Ole Gunnar Solskjær thinks that Moa, 23, has the skills, temperament and ambition to make it at United. In the Norwegian cup final Moa scored two goals, and set up one more in the 4-1 win over Stabæk. Connections in Vålerenga that stand close to Solskjær and Sir Alex Ferguson confirm that United have followed Moa closely during the cource of the season. They have been impressed of what they have seen and are thinking about an offer in January.”
Source: Norwegian paper Dagbladet and Ole Gunnar Solsjkær.
To be honest, Ive wathed Moa in the Norwegian league. He is a left footed striker with pace, power and an unbelieveable ball control when he is running. He doesnt have the skills of Ronaldo, but his ball control when running at full speed is really impressive. Still, I dont think he is United quality. If there is any player in Norway that is even close to United quality it is Alanzinho. He is a left winger that can do everything with the ball at his feet. Not United quality yet, but can become. About Moa, he is young and has played well this season. But like I said, he is not the a player that we need. If I would try to give you an image of what kind of player he is I would compare him to Benzema. Good control, power and an eye for goal. NOt Solskjær style, but so-so.
November 16th, 2008 at 12:37
@RedDevilEddy: This Stoke team that don’t know how to play football, Beat Arsenal and drew with the scousers
.
November 16th, 2008 at 12:39
@Craig Mc: Makes it even better, eh?
November 16th, 2008 at 12:42
@RedDevilEddy: Glad u mentioned Vidic…he was my MOM yesterday. Like RR mentioned a couple of posts back, I think we’ve been playing well the past few weeks in terms of possesion and creating chances, but we’ve been looking very shaky at the back. So it’s comforting to see Vidic looking so sharp again.
Just hope it rubs off on EVDS and Rio now…we quickly need to get that mean streak back to our defence to really apply pressure on the top two. If we can keep clean sheets over the next few games they’ll really be looking over their shoulders!
November 16th, 2008 at 13:10
Lol yeah Stoke beat Arsenal, sweetest thing ever. Liverpool will drop points for sure. they dont have depth in their squad. But Chelsea seem to be on song at this moment. We will only have to hope that teams like Spurs, Villa will have great days against the said two.
November 16th, 2008 at 13:50
@UnitedUnited: Yeah, I just can’t see Liverpool winning it. Every team goes through a blip at some point in the season and you needs oodles of character and class to recover quickly…and I just don’t see enough of it in their squad, especially when the pressure’s really on during the second half of the season. For them, a lot will depend on players like Kuyt and Alonso, who are playing out of their skin atm, maintaining their form throughout the season.
Chelsea are the biggest challengers – they’ve have been outstanding going forward, but I sense that they’re a little soft in the middle under Scolari…they’re not as frightening as they were under Mourinho when you wondered if it was even possible to score against them…though that might change when they get over their injuries.
We’ve been in a bit of a low, which is understandable after the highs of last season, but if we get our hunger and ruthlessness back we’re gonna be hard to live with. With the kids coming through, it’s just frightening to see all the options we have with a fully fit squad. I just feel we lack someone really dominant in the middle of the park, though I have high hopes for Anderson…if he can really develop and become a really big player for us after Xmas this’ll be the most complete squad I’ve ever seen at United.
November 16th, 2008 at 13:57
@UnitedUnited: I think Chelski are really unconsistent. Win against Sunderland, Loss against Liverpool, Win against Hull, loss against Roma, win against West Brom, Loss against Barnsley(or Burnley, dont remember). They are not as good as last season, something that makes me wonder if we really have a greater chance of winning the League than some of us think
November 16th, 2008 at 14:00
was at the game yesterday and thourght that the first half was pretty dire. we were hanging on to the ball for too long and berbatov coming deep wasn’t working. However once we got the 2nd goal the game opened up and allowed us to play. Fletcher and carrick were sheer class and so was young evans at the back. Despite the cracker from Wellbeck noboddy seems to be talking about the boy Darren Gibson. He was sublime in the last 20 mins knocking the ball about like scholesy
It bodes well for the future, who says arsenal have better youngsters than us 
November 16th, 2008 at 14:02
I don’t think we need Chelsea and Liverpool to implode (but the dippers will at some point.) We just need them to lose 1 game each more than we do against everyone else. They both have to come to Old Trafford, and our game in hand is against Fulham. We are in a perfectly good spot, ahead of Arsenal Daycare and waiting to pounce on the other 2.
November 16th, 2008 at 15:56
@Traverse: Mmmmm Traverse I hear you Bro, but I just don’t think we are consistent either, and that is why I don’t feel we will get the PL again this year. I seriously hope I am wrong though.
Rooney and his chest infection
. He will continue having chest problems as long as he SMOKES and doesn’t look after his body as a good Pro should.
November 16th, 2008 at 15:57
@RedDevilEddy: That would be Burnley. the Mighty Clarets lol !!
I agree too, I think they (Chelsea) might suffer a few more innconsistencies before the Season is out.
Darren Fletcher has userped Owen Hargreaves for sure, he’s been immense for us this Season so far, and looks like he’s going to stay as consistent too, go on lad!
Peas out!
November 16th, 2008 at 16:18
@m34ch: Fletch will NEVER usurp a FULLY FIT Owen Hargreaves mate, Hargo has a far better STAMP of AUTHORITY on games when he is fit and firing. We will have to see if Hargo ever returns to complete fitness, which I for one very much hope he does – Viva Owen Hargreaves
.
November 16th, 2008 at 16:23
we’re kind of like liverpool of last year, piss poor against the big 3, and banging on the minnows like hell.. well i hope the return fixtures against the big 3 will result to 9 out of 9 points.
November 16th, 2008 at 16:28
on the subject of the engerland squad, i must say, is manicee(or what ever his name is) can get into the squad, am i wrong in thinking campbell/welbeck can get into it? i think campbell especially has been hard done by. OK he just started playing for spurs, but still, 3 goals and an assist in 2 matches is a bloody good form. campbell better start for the u21.
before someone says welbeck hasnt even appeared in the u21s, well wilshire is 16 and just got promoted to the u21s, having played shit all matches. why cant welbeck get promoted to the fringes of the senior squad when prats like downing and macienne(or what ever his name) are in it…
November 16th, 2008 at 16:38
lol, robinho is vice captain of city.
November 16th, 2008 at 16:59
@Craig Mc: I was taking into account that Hargreaves is out for a year and fletcher hasn’t yet dissapointed. It was more a bigup to Fletch as opposed to a knock on Owen, Fletchers time is here and I think he deserves credit; a la filling in for Hargreaves and the like.
Still, can’t wait to have a 100percent fit Hargreaves – the likes of which we haven’t seen yet in a United shirt – exciting times ahead!
On a side note, fantastic to see Campbell doing well at Spurs too! See, it’s not all doom and gloom, lol.
Happy Sunday guys, Peas out.
November 16th, 2008 at 17:04
@Craig Mc: I reckon ur underrating my man Fletcher there. Let’s not forget he’s still 24 and his best years are still ahead of him, needless to say, he is not the finished article, yet. As for Hargreaves, unfortunately at 27, with a prolonged injury crisis, it seems he might have hit his peak, thankfully it’s a high one.
Flecth has all the qualities of a top midfielder. He is strong, quick, agile, his tackling is crisp, interception is accurate, passing is pin-point and he can even score goals too. It’s also this versatility that has made him occupy different roles for us. His game after his return from injury last year has been taking huge strides forward and it will only be a matter of time before he would be generally recognised as an excellent midfielder.
About the stamp of authority thing, not all defensive players share the same playing style. Some like to run and harass players, while some use positional play and crisp tackling to dominate midfield. Players like Hargo and Gattuso belong to the former, while others like Makelele and Senna belong to the latter and so does Fletch. Watching him play and calmly eradicate any midfield attack the opposition tries to muster is a joy to watch. Actually, yesterday’s game was a good example of this. He was magnificent yesterday and his total dominance even allowed Carrick to move forward and attack.
The lad is definitely coming into his own and I’m sure with a prolonged stint in the first team, all his great qualities will consistently be on show for the whole world to see.
November 16th, 2008 at 17:09
@RedDevilEddy: yeh, thats true. and they played their best team possible in some of the matches they lost – burnley & roma. but they ave lots of injuries so they might improve come xmas
November 16th, 2008 at 17:26
hart is injured, hope for foster?
November 16th, 2008 at 18:25
Has any1 seen in the daily mail today that capello is still interested in the united job and wud be prepared to leave england in 2010 and take over from fergie. My 1st thought being half italian is yes, it wud be great to have an italian in charge of my team. He is an excellent manager, will be able to speak english fully, will know most of the players and above all is just a winner like ferguson. However he is now 62 or something i believe and wud be 64 if the reports r to be believed. Is that too old, or wud he be more of a short term sppointment that wud allow the likes of the keanes, solskjaers of this world more time to impress. Or wud he bring in 1 of them as the assistant and teach them for them to take over. I dont know. I think he wud be an excellent appointment but wud be 2nd choice behind mourinho for me. Ive said what i think about him b4 and although he is controversial, i dont care he wud be the best man for the job. Capello though 2nd choice for me.
What are ur opinions?
November 16th, 2008 at 18:38
@Gabriel: The verdict is still out on Fletcher as far as I am concerned Gabriel. Yes he has had 2 or 3 good games, but I like consistency, that is just who I am I guess. I also like players that STAMP, their authority on midfield, and that means wherever they happen to be playing defensive, central or attacking MF.
.
They may have different styles to their game, but this shouldn’t make any difference to them taking the game by the throat. For instance, Incy, Robson, Scholesy, Keane, played in the same MF, but ALL without exception BOSSED that midfield area. Hargo is that sort of player when fully fit, but I don’t see Fletch is there yet – sorry mate, not trying to be controversial for controversials sake
November 16th, 2008 at 19:14
@Craig Mc: Makes it all the more embarrassing that we lost to Arsenal now doesn’t it? Fact is Arsenal isn’t that shit hot but we lost to them. Fact is that Liverpool isn’t that shit hot but we lost to them. Fact is that Chelsea have now lost two games at home this campaign but we blew our chance. Bottom line is United is no longer the team we have grown accustomed to. They just aren’t playing well on the road and they are not beating their biggest rivals. Meanwhile other teams are beating those rivals from time to time. I’m just a bit worried that the reason for this is that teams are so up for playing us and frankly speaking, we are not properly prepared nor do we have the proper mind set for games against our worst rivals.
The Stoke team I saw yesterday was God awful. It’s the same team that went to the Emirates and beat Arsenal. WTF???? How the fuck can that gang of muppets beat Arsenal and we can’t? It’s got to do with tactical and mental preparation. Fergie needs to stop over analyzing his opponents and just let the dogs lose. Instead we always go into these games with the same fucking game plan. Work really hard for the first 15 minutes so that the fans think we are up for it. Possibly get the early lead and then just sit back and soak up the pressure. When that fails or when we don’t get the lead and actually fall behind, then we make all the right moves and attack in the second half against a team that will protect their lead with eight to ten men behind the ball. United have become so bloody predictable. On the road we play ultra conservative and we hurt ourselves by not turning the dogs loose. It’s the road games where we should be stressing offensive football more because home teams don’t regularly place ten men behind the ball and defend because they have the home fans to worry about. So if in fact we are the great offensive team of the new Millennium, why then don’t we act like it?
Yesterday we stunk in the first half yet we got two goals. We stunk because of over cautiousness because we bought into the stupid talk about Stoke beating Arsenal and because of their ability to take long throw ins. EEEEEEEEEEKKKK! OOOOOOOOOHHHHH! Trust me, I think they were a lot more terrified by what was eventually going to scare them shitless. Ronaldo free kicks and Berbatov prowling the box etc. They should be afraid of us. I am not one who believes in paying a minnow an ounce of respect. Sure some can get up once in a while a bite you but if your team is prepared and as good as they claim, then a comfortable win at home is academic. So we win 5-0 but that opens up all the questions as to why we lost to Arsenal? Because we are playing like we are protecting something, rather than playing as if we are pursuing something. It’s all mental masturbation and until Fergie realizes that he has the players to turn loose on these teams, we will continue to struggle against our main rivals and we will continue to drop points on the road showing all teams far too uch respect. This team needs to find it’s arrogance and the chip on it’s shoulder and it needs to start playing like it wants to be champions, and not laying back protecting the fact they were champions. I for one hope and pray they get their act together soon.
Liverpool and Chelsea don’t seem prepared to give up ground. It’s doubtful either will give up the eight points we need to catch them. So that means we just cannot afford to give up any more points and that means we better get bloody well focused and mean as Hell when we play teams. It’s eye of the tiger time and there are no more days off. It’s kick ass time.
November 16th, 2008 at 19:17
@RedDevilEddy: They consistently get points mate and they don’t lose games. Look at their record the past five seasons. They bore everyone to death but they just get the job done. And this year they are road warriors too. I doubt they will end up with more than 3 or 4 losses for the entire year. It’s up to us to limit the losses to under five but to not give away games by drawing at home or on the road against teams we should beat.
November 16th, 2008 at 19:24
Remember the name.. Darren Fletcher!!! Couldn’t help it. Nevermind. The boy was fantastic. I am so pleased for him. He’s not in the class of Hargreaves yet, but may be sometime in the near future.
I was also very happy happy to see the new boys given debuts. Gibson looked quite assured, and he may soon force me to retract my words (abt not being United material). Manucho moved well, linked decently but missed a howler so need to see more of him b4 commenting.
And then Welbeck, ..oh dear my.. he kicked the sweet j**** of the ball for that goal. Welbeck is like Rafael, isn’t he? He doesn’t seem to give a shit who or where or when he’s playing.. he just wants to bloody play. Those kiddies in Arsenal diapers will be ashamed of themselves when our crop of youngsters run riot.
November 16th, 2008 at 19:29
Actually grognard stoke beat arsenal at the britannia stadium and not the emirates but yeah i get ur point. It annoying that hull and villa beat the gooners at their place and yet we didnt. I looked at their team last week and i could honestly say i wasnt worried in the slightest, there was not 1 players for them that i was generally afraid of. What i mean of that is when we played barca i was pissing myself everytime messi got the ball, drogba 2 seasons ago did the same but to a lesser extent and gerrard still to a lesser extent but u do still think something will happen when he has the ball. Arsenal were not great but we were worse. I just cant help but feel that if played that arsenal team last week with the team and coach we had last year we wud have won 3 or 4 nil. How they managed to boss us in the midfield with 2 of the most lightweight players ever in fab and denilson i will never know. I know fabregas has a great brain and yes he was to an extent taken care of but their centre backs were striding past the half way line on a few occassions. I honestly wud nt be afraid if i was playing against arsenal and coming face 2 face with fab and denilson. Imagine back in the days, roy keanes face if he saw he was coming up against them. He wud be laughing probably. We have played like this too much this season and i now have no confidence when we play these kinds of games. I honestly dont expect more than a point in our next 2 games away to villa and city. I hope im wrong but somehow i dont feel i will be.
November 16th, 2008 at 19:57
@Grognard: Grog in all fairness we didn’t sit back at Arsenal. Our problem was:-
.
. If we had taken our main chances, we would have won the game 3-2. Then with United its always, would have, could have, should have 
.
1. Shooting so wild, we couldn’t hit a parked Double Decker bus from 10 feet
2. Red Nev (legend), was on the day, getting skinned down the left, his failure to get close up on opposing players, and therefore missing his tackles. And Fergie subbing him for Rafael TOO late in the game.
Together with the rest of our defence having a shit off day too.
3. Our wins when playing Arsenal away (with this present bunch of players) are non existent.
We had most of the play, as we always do, but failed to make it count
4. Biggest concern for me, is how much we depend on Ronnie, and if he is not on his game for just one match, well we are just not getting it done.
Anyway Grog, if as you say, our play is really all about mental masterbation, then surely there should be the ending climax?.
.
November 16th, 2008 at 20:10
@Matthew: We better feckin beat Shitty bedouins this year, or I will commit Hari Kari. The Salford blues will be giving us a torrent of abuse if they do beat us AGAIN. Not that there are too many Salford blues, a scacity species around here
, Salford is RED 
, and ALWAYS will be.
November 16th, 2008 at 20:16
@Rahul: Rahul, I wish mate. Hargo was a major authority in games for Bayern, in MF or right back, and this started when he was just 21 years of age. Grog will probably confirm this. Fletch is what 24yrs old, and is good yes, but I wouldn’t call him truly authoratitive. Others may not agree though
.
November 16th, 2008 at 20:30
CraigMc, agree fletch is not authroitative enough to boss the midfield against the elite teams but he will do a great job against the others. I have gotta give him credit tho for his performances this season. I honestly couldnt see what any1 saw in him before the end half of last season and he has again improved this year. I think against the elite teams we wud be best in a 3 man midfield with anderson and carrick, not in a middle 2 with say anderson as that wud not be strong enough to cope with the barcas, madrids and milans of this world. As u know craigmc, i think we need another DM to help us for this year but i think we will be fine in the long term as i really do think hargo will improve his fitness next year hopefully after these operations.
November 16th, 2008 at 21:01
@Craig Mc: “…not trying to be controversial for controversials sake ”
could have fooled me there 
All I’m saying is don’t write Fletcher off. I’m sure Hargo at Fletcher’s present stage of his career was of similar form and game appreciation. Also, Fletcher has had way more than 2-3 good games, in fact, ever since his return from injury last season, he hasn’t had even a few bad games. Besides, you can’t use ‘consistency’ as a negative criteria for evaluating Fletcher then turn around and ignore Hargreaves’ inconsistency by saying when Hargreaves is ‘fully fit’.
About this ‘Bossing’ thing, I already said there are players that have different but equally as useful styles. With regards to ur demands, you would like a Keane or Gattusso type player, but because a player like Makelele or Senna doesn’t have that style doesn’t mean they are not effective in midfield. That’s the point I’m raising with Fletch, he might not be the Roy of the rovers type player or all-action, but he does stamp his authority in a game by effectively stamping out any opposition counter or build-up play.
With the qualities I mentioned in my previous post, I reckon he is a complete midfielder coming into his prime. Hopefully, he will get consistent playing time this season, so he can fully reach that potential I feel he has.
November 16th, 2008 at 21:03
@Craig Mc: i reckon we will be man sheikey this year, they arnt as good as they where last.
November 16th, 2008 at 21:20
@dan(u-ol): Don’t be so sure. They somehow raise their game against us. Just like how Arsenal did last week.
November 16th, 2008 at 22:14
@Gabriel: Tell me please you are not saying Fletch is the equivelent of a Makele or Senna????
. I think I have said in all my posts that Fletch is a good player, but if I were a manager, he is not somebody I would pay a lot of money for. That should tell you where I am coming from. If you read my last post, you would see that I said Hargo was an authoritative player for Bayern from age 20 onwards. This has NOT been the case with Fletch. Maybe that is because we did have Keano, Scholesy etc, so Fletch wasn’t going to get many opportunities. Besides which, Fletch has had and is still prone to a lot of injuries. How can you call Hargo inconsistent, whenever he played for us, even at 70% fit, he was consistent in all that he was able to do, HE SHONE. I have never heard the United faithful bellowing out songs about Fletch, as they did with Hargo, and this was due to his BOSS influence over the opposition in midfield and at right back. That’s what I truly feel, but then not all will agree with me, as I specifically said 
. For me, if I had to choose between Fletch or a 70% fit Hargo, I would ALWAYS choose Hargo. And I would do so without any hesitation whatsoever. But that is just how I see my team Gabriel 
.
November 16th, 2008 at 22:28
My thoughts on the game:
1. That boy Ronaldo is back at his best. He was taking the piss at times. Stoke couldn’t get near him. They weren’t vintage freekicks but he was clearing the wall at least and there are plenty of dodgy keepers in the league so if you get it on target with as much power as he can we are going to get goals.
2. Berbatov needs to get into the box more and we need to supply him better. You gotta shoot to score and apart from Ronaldo he is probably our best finisher. It seems to me that these days we score most of our goals from outside the box. OK we have players who can do that but there are going to be days when our long shots aren’t going to go in so we need to also create some easy chances and that means better crossing and strikers in the box
3. Carrick and Fletcher look a very solid partnership, good enough to boss the midfield against all but the strongest teams. I also believe both of them can contribute goals this season and take some of the pressure off our misfiring strikers.
4. Everyone is going to drop points this season. The head to heads aren’t as important as people make out. So far our only losses have been away to our main rivals. The problem is not our league position. Considering our fixtures so far we are still in contention. The problem is the way we have been playing. We CAN play better and our strikers CAN score more. Id like to hope that we’ll ride our luck till Christmas and everything will come together during the second half of the season.
5. Good to see the youngsters get a run out. We have the quality to wrap up a lot of the Premier league games by half time and give half a game to the likes of Manucho, Welbeck, Possebon, the twins and Foster.
November 16th, 2008 at 22:33
@Craig Mc: I love Darren Fletcher but he is not in the same universe skill wise or pace wise to Hargo. Hargo’s offensive skills are very underrated because of the role he has been forced to play. At Bayern he often was put in a position where he could show his offensive skills. Maybe he isn’t a prolific goal scorer but he has always been a great passer, crosser and displayed vision. Fletcher is only now starting to show those skills. But as much as like him, he doesn’t hold a candle to a healthy Hargo. And lets not for get Hargo free kick and penalty taking ability too.
November 16th, 2008 at 22:39
@Gabriel: Fletcher major flaw and it is major is his lack of pace. Although he is quicker than he used to be and also quicker to react or to pull off aspects of his game, he is generally a lead foot. Carrick is too. Having one lead foot in the center of midfield is ok as long as he offers you options and offensive skill. But having two is not great. Faster teams will exploit that and without a Hargreaves, Essien or a Senna to stop them, we are prone to trouble. It’s not a major crisis but it is there and it’s probably what’s always going to keep Fletcher from becoming the player we all would love to see. Perhaps on another team but not United. I don’t see it but I do like the lad and I have seen tremendous improvement in his all round game. Physically he has improved and his skill set has increased greatly but it’s his mental game and his newly acquired imagination and vision that has won over the many new fans and supporters he now has. But only if he had pace.
November 16th, 2008 at 22:47
I was at the game and there is one thing that really struck me: the lack of atmosphere! Grognard: you said in the match thread comments that there is no way that the Stoke fans should have been able to out-sing that many United fans but that is what happened. I was in the East Stand beside the Stoke fans and throughout the game they were mocking the United fans about making no noise and yet the only response they got was after Carricks goal at half time. The problem was that nobody in the North or South stands sing. There were a few ‘Stand Up For The Champions’ and ‘U-N-I-T-E-D’ songs sang in the Stretford End and the East Stand but the 2 stands with the majority of fans in them just sat there. I was slightly embarrassed that they out sang our support. That said, the Wigan game I went to last year had a decent atmosphere when I was in the Stretford end so maybe this was an off day
November 16th, 2008 at 22:56
ronaldo’s freekicks were actually more traditional in this game than his normal off the side of the foot rockets. the goalie kept expecting them to fade to his left but they had a traditional right english on them. maby the knuckle ball hasnt been going in for ronny and he switched it up or he is keeping keepers on there toes.
November 16th, 2008 at 23:04
Any way on to the game. We got the scoreline we wanted but I wasn’t overly convinced with the first half display. After Ronaldo’s first we didn’t play well and luckily Carrick scored or else we were in trouble. Berbatov was rubbish. everyone who I went with(one who vouched for him before the game) and the people sitting beside me all agreed. He did nothing. He had 1 shot in the entire game and that was after an attempted pass to Tevez went wrong and it opened up for him. I looked in the newspaper today and his average touch position was around the same as Carrick and Fletcher. So much for the striker situation being solved (unless Welbeck and Manucho do something about it)
Ronaldo despite scoring 2 goals wasn’t great. He lost the ball constantly but I will put some of the blame on our support for not getting behind him when he was getting a torrent of abuse from the Stoke fans.
Park looked good whenever he got the ball. he had to go searching for the ball because every attack we made was on the left because that’s where Ronaldo is
The acres of space that O’Shea (who had a good game also) was in on the right was almost criminal.
The best player on the pitch (although the press wont have you believe it) was Vidic. This guy is just a monster. He didn’t let anything get close to the goal and destroyed any attack Stoke had. He must be worth 3 or 4 times what we paid for him. 6m?BARGAIN OF THE CENTURY!
Now onto the 2nd bargain of the century, Evra. He was great again yesterday. If he could just learn to cross the ball!
Can’t leave without praising Carrick and Fletch. They were both great yesterday. If only they played every game with that much adventure!
November 16th, 2008 at 23:28
berbatov
13 apps
6 goals
6 assists
thats what he was bought to do
November 16th, 2008 at 23:44
@Craig Mc: Craig, I never said Fletch is the equivalent of anybody, I was merely using an analogy to point out that players with different styles can bring equivalent contributions to a team. I really don’t want to compare Hargo and Fletch, because of various reasons like, age and opportunities. Hargreaves is older than Fletch and when he was younger, he had a lot more 1st-team playing time, while Fletch was held back by Scholes, Keano, Beckham etc.
All i’m saying is Fletch has improved greatly and it’s no surprise that a sustained inclusion in the first team has helped that. Like Groggy said, every aspect of his game has improved greatly and it’s not difficult or impossible to see him reaching lofty heights in the next couple of years if he continues on this path. Like you said, Fletch had major players blocking his path and now that he is having his time to play, he has shown the development he could only achieve with regular playing time.
Also, I call Hargo inconsistent because he has not been able to ‘play’ for a sustained period for us. Just like Saha was inconsistent. Funny how you point out that Fletch is prone to injuries, hence inconsistent, yet Hargreaves isn’t.
Fletch has been shining for us since the back end of last season and I don’t recall any poor performance from him. That is consistent.
Besides, just because the terrace doesn’t sing his song doesn’t mean he isn’t good.. I don’t hear them singing about Rio or some of our other excellent players?
November 16th, 2008 at 23:49
dan i like berbatov as a player but it is worth pointing out 4 of those goals came in the champions league, home games, against extremely inferior opposition. In the EPL he has scored 2 in 11 which isn’t good enough and didn’t score a single goal in any of the big games. He was bought as a striker and while I believe he has proved to be an excellent creative outlet, like all our other strikers he needs to start scoring more goals to justify his transfer fee.
Of course you can say he is adapting to our style of play and blame the lack of service. But I still feel Berbatov is playing too deep and forcing Tevez and Rooney to play ahead of him which is the wrong way round.
November 17th, 2008 at 0:02
@Gabriel: Gabriel, you could take issue all night mate, but one mans meat, another mans poison. Hargo is MY MEAT
. So as I have determined I will avoid long drawn out debates on the blog anymore, I will rest my case 
.
November 17th, 2008 at 0:05
@Grognard: Grog, I agree Hargo and Fletch are in different Universes playing wise, but Gabriel and I are in the same Universe
. Although maybe, he wishes he wasn’t 
.
November 17th, 2008 at 0:10
@Grognard: Groggy, your comment summarises as such, ‘Fletcher has improved vastly in most aspects of his game’. Coincidentally, this is what I’m trying to say. I’m not intent on comparing him with anyone else, just saying that he has improved and if it continues this way, he will become an excellent midfielder.
About the pace, I don’t agree. Fletcher is quite fast and actually started off as a right midfielder. He has shown great bursts of pace regularly this season and previously too.
Sometimes it is hard to imagine a player reach such lofty heights in his game but there are usually factors that prevent some from doing that. I think Fletch’s was irregular playing time. After his injury last year, he has been constantly improving in almost all areas of his game and with more playing time afforded to him, he has been able to utilise and get comfortable with these improved skills in a competitive scenario.
It’s impossible to tell the future, but one can predict based on current events and based on Fletcher’s current development and age, it’s not wrong to predict that he can become a tremendous midfielder.
November 17th, 2008 at 0:16
@Gabriel: Not wrong to predict, just LUNACY perhaps –
.
November 17th, 2008 at 0:28
@Craig Mc: don’t get me started Craigy
wouldn’t want to dampen the spirits ahead of our boy Nani’s birthday tmz 
What u gettin him 
he’s turning 22 
November 17th, 2008 at 0:52
@Gabriel: Oh dear, perhaps a new football team to play for, in sunnier climates, because he is getting feck all joy or opportunity at the one he is meant to be playing for now –
. He’s got a tasty treat in that GF of his though, man she is some gorgeous lady 
.
November 17th, 2008 at 2:07
@Gabriel: Fletcher has come a long way but I think he is very close to reaching his peak. I don’t think that he will improve all that much more than he already has. And I do disagree regarding pace. Although he showed more speed upon returning from his injury last year, he is not fast enough to be playing alongside Carrick. One of them has to sit down. Now who do you think Fergie prefers between those two? I myself would prefer Carrick but the gulf between them isn’t great. Add Hargo (if he fully recovers) to the mix next year and things could look better.
November 17th, 2008 at 2:10
@Craig Mc: What universe is large enough to handle both you and Gabriel. Each one of you will fight for territorial rights. One will fight with Fletcher and the other will sick us with Nani.
I think it’s time for the Dark Lord to take over this universe too and bring proper rule and control to the realm. I’m coming with Hargo so look out.
November 17th, 2008 at 5:21
question.
If I am in the US, what is the best way to attend a united game?
-Book my own travel+hotel and get ticket online or at game (scalp)
-Use XL Travels or some football package
-some other way, besides buying the club?
November 17th, 2008 at 6:10
@Madschester United: XL travels still exists??
November 17th, 2008 at 7:52
@Grognard: Im scared….
November 17th, 2008 at 7:56
Ah, Monday! Worst day during the whole week, you wake up early and you have your longest day in these five days. But I am cheerful today because of: 5-0, 2-0. If you read Stoke previews, my thoughts after the game you will get what I mean. It wouldnt be surprise if you did anyway. Those Arses are gonna get it today!
November 17th, 2008 at 9:48
hargo aint gna help us play any better. what he can do is prevent goals leaking from our midfield. simple as that.
November 17th, 2008 at 10:29
@RedDevilEddy: You should be
November 17th, 2008 at 10:31
@Al Nino: Let me get this right, preventing goals leaking from our midfield does not make us a better team? I’m not sure I’m with you on that one mate?
November 17th, 2008 at 10:34
I’m slightly concerned by some of the comments on here regarding Hargo. Don’t get me wrong, I’m as gutted as anyone that he’s not been around (and won’t be anytime soon) and had looked forward to seeing him play a big role this year – but – he’s not some all-conquering world beating solution to our problems. He’s a consistent spoiler with a few added dimensions. While he definitely put in some great performances at the end of last season, often playing out of his ‘preferred’ position, I really hope his absence doesn’t lead to massive dissapointment when he returns. I think his attitude and commitment are first rate, and that if he could play for a few years he’d make great captain material, but he’s not going to single-handedly save the day, and some people on here seem to be thinking he will.
And what scares me most of all is that above all of his attributes his fitness and athleticism was his most used. And I’m sorry, but after what will be the best part of 3 years wihtout consistent football, how can anyone be expected to maintain that?
Hopefully he’ll prove me wrong, but I can honestly see us in for a big letdown next summer…
November 17th, 2008 at 10:35
@Grognard: I was just about to say the same thing!
November 17th, 2008 at 10:41
I think Hargo gives us a more of a pressence in midfield, he is physical and gets around the pitch well, plus hits a mean freekick.
Also we paid a lot of money foe him nd I personally would like to see a better return for our money, not that thats his fault but for £18m I would a few more games from him.
November 17th, 2008 at 11:22
@Al Nino: “prevent goals leaking from midfield” is not = playing better??? how is that??
November 17th, 2008 at 11:54
Very late player ratings
EVDS – 7.5 – Made a fansastic save to prevent an O’Shea own goal which would have put us in a really bad position in the match, and then did absolutely nothing because Stoke were that bad. Not his fault.
O’Shea – 6.5 – Credit to a man that can play absolutely anywhere in the back half of the pitch, however he still flatters to deceive when he’s out there. Doesn’t have pace, can’t really cross and yet still had a pretty decent game. Probably because Stoke were terrible.
Vidic – 8.5 – Could have been a tough match given the way that Stoke play, but I was never worried because Vida was absolutely dominant. He even had a random run to Stoke’s goalline. I mean wow. Hopefully he’s back to his best.
Evans – 8.0 – I didn’t notice we were missing the best defender in the world. Because a 20 year old was playing. Impressive.
Evra – 8.0 – My initial fears about his aerial ability were completely allayed by the technical miracle that saw someone somehow hide mini-trampolines in his boots. His ups are ridiculous, and makes Hull’s second that much more surprising. Was also great attacking, as usual.
Fletcher – 8.0 – Ran and ran and ran and then ran a little more. Stoke midfielders must have been absolutely sick o the sight of him, as every time they attempted to bring the ball out of their own half, there he was. Quietly becoming a first choice player, particularly with anderson failing to impress this year.
Carrick – 8.0 – Even though I mention it fairly frequently, I have to say it again. The boy has class. He’s slow, not tough in the tackle, rubbish in the air for his height and looks to have the commitment of a comatose doorknob but his technical ability and imagination are world class. It wasn’t just his goal, it’s more his ability to touch the ball exactly where it needs to go, whether that be 1 inch to the right of the defenders oncoming boot or 50 yards to a winger coming in behind hte full back. Now if only he could do some speed training…
Park – 6.5 – I’m pretty sure he was playing and probably energetically but to be honest I’m trying really hard to think of a moment to reference right now, and that probably means he didn’t accomplish too much. We still ahve a ridiculous record when he plays though.
Ronaldo – 8.0 – Okay he scored an interested first and a quality second, should also have set one up for Manucho and was pretty awesome. He’s the best player in the world and had a reasonable day in the office.
Berbatov – 7.5 – Why must you tease me so? Moments of magic intermixed with drifting way back into the midfield leaving our line with no one at the helm. Scored and should have had another, but I still want to see some more effort from him. When we signed him I had really hoped that Fergie woudl give him the hairdryer treatment and beat him until his work rate came up to United standards, but it looks more like he said, right son, you’re quite good, go do your thing.
Tevez – 6.5 – A bit like Park. I know he was playing and I remember seeing him a lot, but I can’t recall exactly what it was he was doing. And he didn’t score or look like scoring. Against Stoke.
Can’t be bothered to the do the subs, but Manucho looked slow and had a poor first touch, but at least he was in the box at the right times and could have nabbed two in his time on there. If that doesn’t tell you how useful an in the box striker would be for us, well I just don’t know. Wellbeck’s goal was awesome but lets not get ahead of ourselves just yet.
November 17th, 2008 at 11:59
@Beachryan: I agree in all your ratings spot on mate.
November 17th, 2008 at 12:42
@Beachryan: Doesn’t anyone remember that Gibson came on as a sub?? In almost all the reviews I’ve read, he doesn’t even get a mention.
and for the record, he did okay. Like ur ratings too 
November 17th, 2008 at 12:48
@Gabriel: He did quite well I agree, I think in general Possebon takes all his glory, god knows why because I for one like the kid.
Welbeck scored a great goal which took the glory, but he does look like Bambi when forst born and has a long way to go.
November 17th, 2008 at 12:55
So, anybody playing football manager 2009?
November 17th, 2008 at 13:46
@Beachryan: Park was on the ball more and had more shots than Berbatov. Why does nobody else see how wrong Berba is for our style of play. It says something that basically the only time he went into Stokes box he scored. So why not stay there? The fact that Dirt Shite off Pool has more league goals than our £30m striker is sickening
November 17th, 2008 at 13:55
@Liam: Give him a break, bloody hell! the lad is class, he scored on Saturday what more do you want?, I certainly know who I would rather in my side.
November 17th, 2008 at 14:01
@ Liam – I don’t think we bought him to be a goal scorer. If we did we should be sorely dissapointed, because he’s not doing that. Doesn’t Kuyt have more goals than most of our team?
November 17th, 2008 at 14:15
@Beachryan: Think you could do with watching some Bayern videos of Hargo playing for them when fully fit – you might be more enlightened mate – that’s all I have to say. And start with the one he played against OUR LOT in the CL at OT – he was all over the bloody place, and we got nothing from that game, and I mean nothing.
November 17th, 2008 at 14:17
@Grognard:
, I so agree Grog.
November 17th, 2008 at 14:24
@Grognard: No Grog, with our Universe challenge, Gabriel was putting forth Fletch, and I Hargo. Also I proclaim Nani and I think Gabriel agrees on Nani – so there you go. I would win with Hargo against Fletch, of that I am sure (when Hargo or IF Hargo gets back his full fitness), and its a draw on Nani. I think I’m in the lead with Hargo battle, but Gabriel thinks he leads with Fletch. We are not going to exterminate each other though
.
November 17th, 2008 at 14:34
@Craig Mc: No Craig, you were putting forth hargo and I was declaring Fletch was not as bad as you imagined him to be. It’s not a competition, because hands down Hargo is better than Fletch but you were using double standards in your evaluation and it just didn’t seem fair. I generally don’t like comparing United players because it’s a slippery slope that leads to bias and naivety towards certain players you argue for or against. So, unfortunately there’s no battle going on… although I could battle you all day about ur claims that Ronnie was suffering from ‘clinical depression’ earlier this season.
November 17th, 2008 at 14:39
@ Craig MC – Re: Hargo – I’m not denying his quality, nor his performances for Bayern. What I’m warning against is expecting him to be able to play like that again for any length of time. I mean come on, given that you’ve seen him so much you must realise that his pure athleticism is his greatest asset. And it seems a very real possiblity to me that this will have decreased due to his incredibly long (a dozen games for us aside) injury spell. It’s not even his age, I think if you took Ronnie out of the game for the next 3 seasons when he came back he’d be a step slower, and less fit, because he’s only human.
All I’m saying is don’t get your hopes to high. For me personally, I’m just hoping he does come back. It reeks of Ole to me. Every 6 months hearing that’s he just about to be back to his best. And it just never works out.
November 17th, 2008 at 14:40
Fletch has done well this season but form is tempory and class is permanent, this is his first season whre he has but a collection of games together consistantly, but credit where credit is due.
November 17th, 2008 at 14:48
@Beachryan: Honestly, I believe we bought Berba to lead the line for us (one of the duties being goals), hence his No.9 shirt. If you recall his first few games for us, he was always on the shoulder of the last defender, leading the line etc however the supply and service to him was horrible (remember Vidic’s aimless long balls). The attack from midfield was non-existent and he gradually began to fall into the trap that Rooney and Tevez have regrettably fallen into; he began to drop deep to create play. The thing is, he is so effective at doing that, Fergie probably decided to let him continue in that style.
Seriously, I hope that is not a style Fergie will stick with as it will only indulge his ‘laziness’ and we will gradually resort back to our previous system with no out-and-out striker, as Rooney and particularly Tevez don’t like going into the penalty area.
Things are looking up though, in Saturday’s game, Carrick began to move forward, which allowed Berba to linger more around the box. If we can utilise a consistent attacking midfielder, then our strikers would have less inclination to drop deep to create play and might then get the goals they should be scoring if they stayed in and around the penalty area.
November 17th, 2008 at 14:56
I don’t know why people call Berba “lazy”, he doesn’t run around like a headless chicken on acid like Tevez/Rooney, thats just the way he plays. He is not goig to track back as much as them and thank God because we already have players who do that.
Is Ronnie lazy? was Cantona, Cole, Ruud Sheringham I can’t recall them tracking that much. Berba is class and will score goals as well as create them and space, we are United not Chelsea, I wouldn’t swap him for Drogba ever, because he is class not a workhorse and I have been brought up enjoying skill and guile.
November 17th, 2008 at 15:15
@Stephen: Stephen, if that comment was in reply to my post, I think you might have misunderstood what I meant. I put the ‘laziness’ in apostrophe’s as a sort of sarcastic reference to how people describe him. If there was an alphabetic symbol or sign for the two-fingered bunny-eared air-quote, then i’ll have used that instead.
What I meant was that he is languid and elegant by nature and if given the choice to lead the line(which means running behind and constantly hassling defenders) or sit back and create, we all know which one he will choose. We don’t need him to track back, but we need him to lead the line, cause as you said, we already have players who do a lot of tracking back and playmaking in Rooney and Tevez.
We bought him because we needed a player similar in vision and creativity to the roovez, but one that would stay upfront and utilise his bodyframe and technique to lead the line, poach goals and meet crosses sent into the box. He’s not going to do all that if he’s not in and around the box, that’s all I’m saying.
November 17th, 2008 at 15:25
@Gabriel: Matey he has always dropped deep, thats his style, he was also brought to create space for other players such as Ronnie
November 17th, 2008 at 15:48
@Stephen: I sincerely don’t believe that is the case bro. We had two other strikers who created that space for Ronnie and buying a £30mil striker to do the exact same thing was definitely not the plan. Our previous game play revolved heavily around Ronaldo and we bought Berba to give us another option that Saha, thru injury, failed to do, a more direct, thru the middle attack setup.
Notice how Ronnie has begun playing more as a winger than as a striker? This is because Berba is supposed to be the striker in the box. The problem is, when you play a more direct, thru the middle approach, you need an attacking midfielder to create play in midfield so the attackers don’t fall back to. We haven’t had a consistent one, and Berba, due to his immense composure, technique and creativity has had to fall back a bit to the the creating. He is good at it, but in the long run it might be more beneficial if he was in and around the box. He is quite clinical and that skill can only be better utilised in the penalty area.
Like I said, during the second half of saturday’s game, Carrick began playing like an attacking midfielder and Berba was free to stay in and around the box and got the goal. The same has happened most times we’ve played with an attacking mid this season, Berba has played as a No.9 and scored – Aalborg, West Brom, Celtic(home).
November 17th, 2008 at 15:56
@Gabriel: Hopefully with Carrick back it will free Berba up more rather than try to be the creative link for us constantly.
Berba was bough as another option, he was expensive but that is not his fault, neither Tevez if he is bought for the crazy money tauted.
Berba is settling Ronnie has been out our 3 first chice midfielders have been out, Nani hasn’t had a look in and Andy, well seems out of form.
It will gel, and he played well on Saturday, well from where I was sitting, but after the 5 pints I had before kick off William Prunier would have looked good!
But seriously, we hopefully will start to click, and we need to with the up comming fixtures!
November 17th, 2008 at 16:43
Here’s hoping that the circus at the L’Arse lasts forever
November 17th, 2008 at 17:51
@Beachryan: Well Beachy, did Ole’s comebacks ever mean he didn’t bring quality back with him?. No it didn’t. When Ole was fit, he produced, and Hargo is exactly the same. Hargo is a lot more than just a good athlete Bro, he BOSSES the midfield and flanks, and he did this for us for 12 games as you say, and he was feckin impressive. When have you seen any of our MF’s or RB’s bombing down the field and putting into the box pass after pass with accuracy?. Irwin used to do that for us. Evra is athletic, but he offers us little going forward, because he cannot get the ball into the box and often fizzles out. And Red Nev used to be great going forward and getting balls into the box, but even he wasn’t as good as Hargo, even tho Hargo was only 70% fit. I PRAY that Hargo’s ops are successful, and he gets fit again, and I do not believe he will disappoint. But like you say Beachy, we wait and see. Hargo to me, has a more all round game, and is a greater contributor to a game, than any of our other present MF’s. That will always be MY TAKE on Hargo
.
November 17th, 2008 at 17:54
@Gabriel: Just try Bro – I’ll win
. And all IS FAIR when I am defending my fave players 
.
November 17th, 2008 at 17:58
@Beachryan: Has Kuyt scored more goals than our Ronnie then Beachy?. Ron will soon overtake him if he has
.
November 17th, 2008 at 18:14
My point was that Kuyt isn’t actually all that bad this year
And he is indeed ahead of all United scorers except:
Ronnie is second in the top scoring table. And barely played before October (!) The boy is a phenom.
November 17th, 2008 at 18:28
@Craig Mc: Matey a lot of Hargos’ game is his athletisism if he struggles to regain that then he will not be the player he shouls have been and I love him, also I know he hits a mean freekick!
Kuyt is shit.
November 17th, 2008 at 18:32
park is a liability on the left, and on the right(unless rafael is playing). we have no creativity down the left flank anymore, because evra cant cross for shit, and neither can park. nani is the best left-winger we have, and i like craig hope he is sold so he can rub it in our faces when he becomes a hit.
November 17th, 2008 at 18:37
@dan(u-ol): Park is poor but not a liability as he rarely does absolutly nothing wrong, but little right, I support United not Nani, and if he plays he really needs to take his chances, because he han’t this season, except in spells against West Ham, he is a good player, but to rub our noses in what?
November 17th, 2008 at 19:00
@Craig Mc: I so agree Craig
Hargo is a handful for any team when he is healthy because he is all over the place and because he a pest extraordinaire with a twist. He can do all the things that a Gattuso odes with more pace and fewer fouls but here’s the thing, froma position known 99% of being defensive, he is great at kick starting counter attacks and is great at long probing passes or through balls that get our offense going. Not to mention his ability to cross and free kick. He may very well be the most versatile yet still world class player in all world football. I cannot think of another defensive oriented player that can be used so many ways yet offer so much in any position. And those who don’t sing his plaudits just haven’t seen enough of him or seen him at his best. Last year he played at 70% efficiency for us and he was pretty damned good. I for one have seen him play at 100% numerous times for Bayern and for England. Lets put it this way, I am not one who gets turned on by watching defensive minded midfielders. Makelele, Gattuso, Frings, Mascherano, Vieira, Cambiasso all bore the Hell out of me. Hargo has always excited me.
One game I remember vividly was during Ottmar Hitzfeld’s first reign at Bayern. Munich had a lot of injuries to their back four and Hitzfeld decided to play the old 4-3-3 style with a sweeper. He played Hargreaves at sweeper and he was fucking unbelievable. In fact the broadcaster was saying that Bayern may have found itself a new Beckenbauer. He was that cool, clinical and visionary. I believe he scored a goal from a beautiful bending free kick that day and assisted on a goal but his overall play in that 4-0 win was nothing short of sensational. That day he made me proud to be a Canadian. Don’t forget, you English are just renting him as he is no fool to want to play for the useless Canadian National Team. Hargo rules and I for one would be shattered if his career is over. Hopefully the surgery on both knees will work and he returns at 100%, because if he does, many here will regret their doubt and closed minded opinions of the lad’s abilities. I still read reports today from Germany claiming that Bayern are still upset they have lost him.
November 17th, 2008 at 19:03
@Craig Mc: Well if you have Hargo there is no need for me to come and clean house and put the Universe back in working order. I just assumed you would take Nani but Hell, you took both Nani and Hargo. Greedy fuck!
But that’s why I love you Bro, always thinking ahead and with a cunning plan. 
November 17th, 2008 at 19:07
@Beachryan: That’s a fair point. We don’t know first of all if he is even going to return, yet know how good he will be. However, if he does return at close to 100% he offers much more than just athleticism. He has great vision and he is also a loud and very vocal leader on the pitch that is great at organizing and directing the troops. He also has great moments of offensive magic with his crosses, long passes and incredible free kicks. Don’t underestimate his other contributions because he is far more than just an Energizer Bunny.
November 17th, 2008 at 19:20
I agree Berbatov wasn’t bought as another player to create chances for Ronaldo. Ferguson expects at least 20 goals from him. I am not sure if he meant EPL or all competitions. But he needs to step up a notch and get in goalscoring competitions. I agree he is not completely to blame for wanting to help out the team rather than being isolated up front. But he needs to stay up front and wait for the rest of our team to get their act together and create chances for him. It is ok to drop off a bit but not as much as he does, especially when we have Tevez and Rooney as deep lying forwards.
Let’s forget the Hargreaves debate. He is out for the season and if he comes back fit he’ll have a chance to prove to us his worth.
The wings are more interesting. Ronaldo we can agree is quality even if he is not a conventional winger. Park is solid but I agree he does not do much for the team offensively and we could achieve the same result by playing 4-3-3 and just adding an extra midfielder. But the reality is he is a useful squad player, doesn’t seem to mind being out of the team, is reliable in the sense that he rarely has a bad game (or a good game) etc. Having said that he gets injured a bit too much for my liking.
Nani has potential but is not the finished article. Can we afford to keep playing him putting up with inconsistency mixed with glimpses of ability and final product? I say yes we can but he needs to be shackled a little bit more. These wild shots he goes for help no-one and he should focus on crossing to Berbatov and giving us width. Maybe he will come good like Ronaldo did. Or maybe he will never fulfill his potential. But we need at least a season to assess this. Until then he is our first choice left winger.
November 17th, 2008 at 19:22
@Gabriel: And yet he has scored 6 goals for us and missed some great chances all from inside the box and in a traditional poacher’s position. No Berbatov’s main problem has been lack of quality service. Once the service to him inside the box improves, you will see double the opportunities and many more goals.
Honestly we need to get supporters away from this overrated and radically flawed blue collar way of thinking. The continental game has been very successful for decades now and players don’t run around like energetic little programmed factory workers justifying their paychecks to the blue collar fans who feel the game is all about effort and has nothing to do with skill and vision. Berbatov will never be the player you seem to want which is a Rooney with a nose for the box. He does NOT expend useless energy doing other people’s jobs. He concentrates on his duties and turns the gas on when it’s necessary. So lets leave the blue collar work ethic at home because it really is a tired and incredibly boring argument while also being the single most important reason why the English game in general (not the Big 4) is so far behind the continent and South America in class and quality. The game is football, not track and field. I love to see imagination, vision, dribbling and passing skills with finesse. Not Bolton, Sunderland or Fulham style football designed to bore me to tears while I watch eleven men run themselves into the ground for no apparent purpose. No thank you.
And Berba is not lazy. Not if you totally understand his game and style. I guess Cantona was lazy too based on your criteria?
November 17th, 2008 at 19:29
@Stephen: You beat me to it. Well said. It’s the old argument where street cleaners working hard and running around always begrudge the guy in the suit who may also be working his ass off in the office but because he doesn’t have sweat stains, he is less of human being and his work is seen as weak and lazy. Yet he is bringing home ten times what that street cleaner is bringing home and using less human effort in the process. Why? Because he is smarter and because he uses his energy in a more efficient and finesse oriented manner. There’s an analogy for those Berbatov detractors who just don’t get it. Let them all love the work ethic of Nicky Butt until the cows fly home.
November 17th, 2008 at 19:36
@Gabriel: He needs to track back because he holds the ball up well and gives others time to join in the attack as well, he is not getting the kind of service that would allow him to do his Huntelaar or RVN imitation and set up a camp and fire and just wait in the box for balls to reach him. Too many of our players are either too selfish or they are incapable of long passes or crosses into the box. Therefore Berba has to come out and meet them half way if he is to even have a touch. That’s not bad either though. Why? Because in doing what he has done he has still scored six goals in twelve games but is also leading the EPL in assists. Those assists would not happen had he stayed in the box and not ventured out. This is why Fergie wanted him so badly and why he is so often compared to Cantona. When did Cantona ever score over 20 goals in an EPL season? Never, but he was always good for around 15 but he would be directly involved in setting up or being part of 20 other goals the team would score by doing exactly what Berbatov has been doing. Berbatov is just fine thanks and his scoring will increase with time as he gets more comfortable with the team and the style of play. But for now, he has not been a disappointment at all. I’d say a lot of others on the team have disappointed, but not Berba.
November 17th, 2008 at 19:39
@Gabriel: Sorry Gabriel but it is the case. Fergie was always looking and preferred a player similar to Cantona and not RVN. If he thought the way you do he would have opted for Huntelaar. He wanted a player who would hold the ball up, score the odd goal but would create space and with imagination and vision would find ways to get the ball to whom Fergie really expects the goals from, Ronaldo and Rooney. Berbatov is the conductor and decoy that the offense has not had for many a year.
November 17th, 2008 at 19:43
@colver: Just as well Park doesn’t mind being out of the team as you say, because he is mostly out of it when he plays, as he falls on his arse all the time.
November 17th, 2008 at 19:45
@Grognard: Yeah thats me Grog
.
November 17th, 2008 at 19:46
“I am the first, second and third best player in the world!”…
Guess who?
November 17th, 2008 at 19:48
If anybody thinks Park gets as many assists or important balls into the box as Little Man Nani, (that includes YOU Fergie), then you need your feckin eyes tested, and to get your brains in gear
.
November 17th, 2008 at 19:49
@NicoQB: Ronnie of course
.
November 17th, 2008 at 19:55
@Craig Mc:
How did you know? I thought it was a tough question!
Actually, the lad meant it as a joke, but itsw soooo like him to make a declaration like that!
November 17th, 2008 at 19:57
@Stephen: To rub your noses in the shit for brains Nani haters have –
. Bro, I am going to get your gorgeous GF to do a job on you, until you come out chanting for mi man Nani 
.
November 17th, 2008 at 19:57
@dan(u-ol): I agree. Park is worthless. But the blue collar crowd love his work ethic even though it doesn’t amount to a lump of shit. He works hard yet he is not quick on his feet and his overall pace for a winger is disappointing. His crossing and passing is mediocre at best and his finishing is one grade above Anderson’s at best. Why he is constantly thrown into games is beyonfd me because Nani is a far greater footballing talent. Yes he doesn’t do the pest like defensive work that Park does but my God, does Fergie really need that against Stoke? Sure I can understand starting Park at Barcelona because he will give Messi a rough time pestering him and just always being around like a bad hangover, but that’s it, that is the only scenario where Park being in the lineup makes any sense. If you are planning to sacrifice a player to be a shadow on someone, then Park is your man. Otherwise, he is completely useless.
How is Nani ever supposed to learn the English game and learn what Fergie expects from him when he is constantly being compromised by useless players who play ahead of him? Nani has a lot to learn and his game is far from perfect but he offers more to the team on a bad day than Park does on a good one. Simple fact, he has a skill set where Park can’t even spell the words. On his worst day when no crosses are working and he puts his head down and shoots balls into the crowd, he is still offers the team more than that dead weight Park does. I hate being tough on the lad but I have waited for a few years now to see if this signing from PSV was going to add up to anything. Yes he has had a some serious injuries but overall, I just don’t see the big deal in him. He’s not Djemba Djemba but I do believe the reason he is still on this team is for marketing purposes in South East Asia where United is very big. Park is not nor has he ever been United quality. And although I often complain about Anderson being overrated, he is ten times the player Park is and even he has a to fight for a place on the side if I was running the team. I love the boy’s attitude and heart but sorry, he’s just not good enough for United. Sorry Park fans, I’m just calling it as I see it.
November 17th, 2008 at 20:01
I felt bad for Manucho, you could tell he was in awe of the while situation. Its a big step up from the reserves to seeing Ronaldo make defenders fall then putting the ball on a plate for you. He was incredibly nervous and I think it was smart of Fergie to put him out there to get a taste of the big stage.
November 17th, 2008 at 20:02
@NicoQB: JS Park.
November 17th, 2008 at 20:03
@Craig Mc: Well said mate, well said.
November 17th, 2008 at 20:04
@NicoQB: That’s because he truly believes it.
November 17th, 2008 at 20:14
The weird thing about Park is that almost in spite of what I see when he plays, our record when he is on the pitch is simply amazing. I can’t dig out stats from my tired brain but its absurd how few times he’s lost with us. A
As for Nani I really want him to get a run, but fergie tends to be right about these things. Personally I think he’s a quality winger, but tries too hard to be more than that. When he stays out wide he’s great. Of course we never have anyone in the middle to do anything with his crosses but that’s hardly his fault
November 17th, 2008 at 20:20
@Grognard: sorry but I can’t agree. Park was probably our 2nd biggest threat in the 1st half on Saturday and most games gets in and around the box and looks like scoring.
As far as I can remember Cantona was one of our top league scorers if not the top every season he played for us and scored in big games at big times not when were are 2-0 up against Stoke and West Brom. I also very much doubt there was any game in which he took only 1 shot!
November 17th, 2008 at 20:28
What’s with this Moa thing??
If he truly signs where is he going to fit?
Just look at it:
1.Rooney
2.Berba
3.Tevez
4.Manucho
5.Welbeck
6.Moa
And let’s not forget Kiko Macheda, who’s making a good impression…
I’m not against buying players, but i’m usuallly fo it when we know for sure that the other existing srikers are not starting material, just supporting roles… Rgiht now, we have three budding strikers who are full of promise, and we want to go looking for another no-name just because the scouts have to justify trheir paychecks?
I don’t know but I always felt that those past seasons we spent useless big money here trying to sign players who were eventually going to end far down in the pecking order…Dong… Or signing youths who are promised to play a big part but eventually end up your average academy youth…Petrucci…
I have nothing personally against Moa, but I have to question the way players are bought sometimes…
November 17th, 2008 at 21:34
@Grognard: @Grognard: @Grognard: Groggy, I believe we are singing from the same apple tree. Like Stephen, you misconstrued my intended, sarcastic ‘laziness’ remark and went on to misinterpret my whole argument. Berbatov is not lazy, he is far from it and you know that too. Nowhere did I say he needs to run about like the energizer bunny or perform any of that blue collar stuff.
What I am saying is the lack of quality service from our midfield has derailed Berba from fulfilling to a maximum extent the role he currently employs. I am of the same frame of thought that reckons his goal and assists tally will increase if the midfield supply him properly so he doesn’t have to come to the half way line looking for the ball.
The good thing is that he is comfortable doing that too and can function productively playing deep or upfront. Which is probably why Fergie wanted him so much. His skillset is so varied that I actually believe he can play as an attacking mid if needed.
Also, he is not doing poorly, I never said that, he is actually doing great but he could be doing better if the midfield decided to create attacking opportunities. Like I told Stephen, look at the games Berba has performed the best in, we had an attacking midfielder playing, Berba didn’t have to drop so deep to playmake, hence was always focused on striking and assisting which led to more productive performances from him.
He is doing a great job, but if we are to move away from our reliance on the Ronaldo 4-2-4 system, we need to find an attacking midfielder capable of providing attacking impetus in the new approach so Berbatov can function most effectively as the perfect foil and jockey to our attackers.
November 17th, 2008 at 21:43
any name kiko would be a star at OT…
to bad his name ain’t kiko.
November 17th, 2008 at 21:51
@dan(u-ol): as i get it, it’s his nickname
Stanley Victor Collymore talking sense, copy pasted from manutd.com..:
I was at Manchester United to witness their demolition of Stoke when Ronaldo was the star turn. But I was more excited about another generation of young players which suggests the future is bright at Old Trafford. Teenager Danny Welbeck, 17, came on and scored a 25-yard corker to show he is one for the future. While Darron Gibson, 21, and Manucho, 25, both also impressed as subs. With Rafael, Anderson and Nani also on the bench, it was an insight into what United are going to look like in four or five year’s time. So, although all the talk is about Arsenal’s youngsters in terms of the sexy football they play, it is United’s who may end up picking up the prizes. The crucial difference is not in terms of individual talent but how they will develop. United have proved the importance of blooding young kids alongside established stars. Take Jonny Evans who played alongside the outstanding Nemanja Vidic at the back on Saturday. He will have learned not just from playing himself but from being next to the Serb stopper – and that’s priceless. Arsenal’s youngsters don’t get that experience because there are not enough mature role models at The Emirates.
November 17th, 2008 at 21:56
@Liam: Sorry but I have to correct you on two counts. First off, Park was very average and most game reviews I have read agree with me so I don’t know which game you were watching?
Secondly and most importantly, Eric Cantona never ever scored 20 goals in an EPL season. That is the 38 game season, not counting cups games and Europe. Hist toals from 1992-93 until 1996-97 were 9, 18, 12, 14, 11 goals for a total of 64 goals in 143 EPL games. That not even one for every two games. So he never ever ever scored 20 goals. What is not readily available to stats hounds is how many assists he had and how many goals were a direct result of something he did. He was not a prolific goal scorer and he averaged 12 goals a season in his last three years. Too many fans always like to lump all the goals together from all the competitions because then a total like 42 by Ronaldo looks bloody awesome.
Even then Cantona never exceeded 25 goals in all competitions. So why is he the King? Not because of his total number of goals but because of the quality and timing of those goals and because of all the other things he did on the pitch. I think it’s fair to say that in Berbatov’s first seasons in the EPL he has actually been a more prolific goal scorer averaging more goals in the EPL and over 20 in all competitions. And lets not forget his assists and influence on a game’s outcome also.
November 17th, 2008 at 21:58
I’m really beginning to think, that Fergie is going to HAVE to choose between Berba and Tevez. Saturday further convinced me that they cannot play together. DARE I say, that they both like in a similar role?. I haven’t really seen anything that confirms to me, that Berba LEADS the line. But with someone in front of him, he is better, more sublime at making chances and opening for others, than Tev is. Tev is all about running and hassling, chasing lost causes, which Berba will never be. Yet Tev’s game has not developed at all and is still the same as last year, but minus the all important scoring. Tev seems to be running into dead ends all the time, and is not getting into the box anywhere near as often as he did last year – in any case that is how it appears. I still don’t think we have anybody who can effectively lead the line, and in most of our games two things happen:-
. So who stays, who goes?. 
.
1. We float bloody good passes into the box, but with the hobbits on duty, we have no chance of getting to the ball in the air before titanic defenders.
2. We get balls into the box, but we have no forwards in there to receive it, this may be the wingers fault for floating the ball in blindly, but more likely none of our forwards being where the feck they should be. I cannot see Berba and Tev playing together in most matches, not unless a solution is found to the aforementioned predicaments
November 17th, 2008 at 22:03
@Gabriel: I guess we all misunderstood you a bit. Where we definitely can agree on is that United need to find a midfielder that will help link Berbatov more to the midfield by getting him the ball. Whether thats a LMF or LW who can cross and pass or whether it’s an attacking midfielder who has Fabregas or Xavi like vision, we will get better once this team realizes that everything should funnel in through Berbatov and then outwards. Once they figure that out rather than continually attack in that very predictable way of down the wings and then slow things up because 10 men are behind the ball. This team is also guilty of not having the courage to make a probing pass. I think Fergie punishes players who use visionary passes if they get intercepted or don’t come off. I can’t tell you how many times I notice a player like Berba open in the box and all it will take is a simple through ball but nobody tries it. Rather, they play the safe diagonal or back passes and wait things out. It’s very frustrating.
November 17th, 2008 at 22:07
@Craig Mc: I have seen countless crosses where there were players in the box but the crosses never reached their destination. They are either to low and get intercepted or they lob them and they go over or are either intercepted. No bending Riquelme or Beckham style crosses or corners that can really cause problems. The problem is the service, except when it comes to Tevez who is nowhere near the box when he needs to be.
November 17th, 2008 at 22:18
@Grognard:
Poor Tevez, he’s doing everything else a striker shouldn’t be bothered with. I wonder what Fergie whispered in his ear after Wellbeck’s goal…
Fergie: “Well, Tev my boy, there goes your contract..”
Tevez: “hahaha(pretentious chuckle).. bastard!”
November 18th, 2008 at 1:17
@Gabriel: Yeah, I really wanna know what fergie said to him, cause Tevez did not look happy.
November 18th, 2008 at 6:28
@Grognard: There is no one available for bending Riquelme/Beckham style free kicks. The one guy we have.. is out till next year.
Did anyone else notice that we got just one yellow card throughout the game?? Improvement in our discipline, is it?? Or is it just because the the shaven madman was not playing?
November 18th, 2008 at 6:42
Er Grognard, sorry to be pedantic but Park is South Korean = Far East, not Southeast Asia. I’m from SEA, and I dont see anyone wearing Park jerseys here, Evra more like. If there were a Thai United player however….
November 18th, 2008 at 6:46
@miele: Don’t think any Thai fellow would make it to Carrington anytime in the near future. Or any SEA fellow for that matter. Sad maybe, but true.
November 18th, 2008 at 8:17
@Rahul: james and phil younghusband are filipinos, they were from the rentboys reserve team and didnt made the cut, yeah harsh but true, its difficult for south east asians to make it big in europe.
November 18th, 2008 at 8:22
@NicoQB: that is spot on.
November 18th, 2008 at 10:05
Rahul & O’Shea: yeah I agree. Can’t stop the kids here from following the dream of playing for United tho’.
And on the yellow card point, very astute observation Rahul. Even more impressive since it was against a team Wenger supposedly termed ‘dirty’. But do we really play more physical with Rooney? Perhaps, I’m not sure. Anyone?
November 18th, 2008 at 10:25
@johnsom33: This is what happened between Tev and Fergie…
Fergie: “Don’t you think that was a good goal now?”
Tevez: “Umm..yeah it was okay, not bad.”
Fergie: “Well, in any case…boy you better start fighting for your 3rd place in the striker dept, cos I think you have competition!! Haha, I’m juz kiddin!”
Tevez: “Hehe, nice one Fergie…”
(silently starts texting his agent – SOS. GET ME OUT!)
November 18th, 2008 at 10:25
Just looking at Opta stats, if we get 5 shots on target against Fulham when we eventually play our game in hand, we’ll have had more shots on target than any other team in the league (as it is we’re 4 behind Chelsea)and they’ve scored a bunch more than us. Must be more clinical…
November 18th, 2008 at 10:30
@Craig Mc: Matey I do like Nani
, and really believe he should get a run in the side, but once he gets it(hopefully he wil) he does need to seize the oppurtunity beter than he has done. We all know that he is the best crosser in the side bar none, and his shop is decent, but its the shoot when should pass, and pass when shoot but he is still only young and NEEDS A RUN FERGIE PLEASE!!!
If he doesn’t fancy Nani in the so called big due to lack of tracking fullbacks, why does he not play Andy on the left, he would provide balance and work coupled with some quality which Park doesn’t have?
November 18th, 2008 at 10:46
@miele: I don’t think we play more physical or less physical with Rooney. Its just his influence on the rest of the bunch, which is a tremendous asset at some times, and a liability at other times.
When he goes charging up scenting for a goal to come by, the others take his cue and follow.. they become more hungry to score. And when he gets a yellow for anything, suddenly we end up a few more players getting one for themselves.
Methinks he’s the source of aggression for the team more often than not, and that is aggression of both the good type and the yellow type! All part of one package, so can’t do much I guess.
November 18th, 2008 at 10:53
@Stephen: Nani the best crosser in the side bar none?? You rate him higher than Hargreaves and Ronaldo and Giggs mate??
November 18th, 2008 at 11:10
@Rahul: Yes matey much better than Giggs!!
November 18th, 2008 at 11:14
@Stephen: Heh.. okay.. accepted on current form he’s way better than Giggs. But Hargreaves and Ronaldo are terrific crossers bro.. personally don’t feel Nani is in that bracket yet!!
November 18th, 2008 at 11:17
@Rahul: Hargo is a decent crosser but Ronnie? Giggsy has never been a good crosser!
November 18th, 2008 at 11:17
This makes me feel quite dirty, but what could really help Nani is if he watched some videos of Stewart Downing (throws up in bin). He may be rubbish, but the timing of his crosses is so good. Tends to look before he gets the ball, take one touch and then whip it in. The problem with Nani is the same as Ronaldo when he first came – it’s impossible for strikers to know when he’s going to cross it. One time he’ll blindly hammer it to the back post with his first touch, next time he’ll stop the ball dead and dance in front of the defender and another time he’ll fake to thebyline, fake back to the middle, fake to the byline, fake to the middle and then flick it in the middle. It makes it completely impossible for the players int hebox to time their runs.
Nani has great skill and can deliver great balls into the box, but he needs to get his timing better, cause at the moment he’s giving the defence all the time in the world to get back. If you want a well timed cross, watch Hargo to Tevez in the CL last year. Matched his run to perfection.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:17
The new pink boots from Nike. To be honest, Im never gonna ear that one. And if Ronny wears them, the “gay” mark is gonna be stronger than ever!
November 18th, 2008 at 11:20
I didnt manage to comment yesterday because of the Arse fans. Had to stay over at a friends house because I told them to go to Anger Management. They kinds should though… No point in running after me because of the 2-0. Behave lads! Shiit…. Thankfully no-one got hurt. Today they dont care anymore, but I dont think Im gonna bring it up again.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:23
@Beachryan: Downing is similar to Beckham that he gets the ball takes a touch then crosses, Nani likes to get beyond the fullback and then cross.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:25
@RedDevilEddy: Anyone who wears then will and should be branded as a little gay!
November 18th, 2008 at 11:26
@Stephen: Step forward Nikolas Bendtner!
He is the one that is gonnan wear them for the first time! 
November 18th, 2008 at 11:29
@RedDevilEddy: How apt!!
November 18th, 2008 at 11:42
@Rahul: Nani is not a good crosser – errrrr right mate. So this is why he was 2nd highest assists next to Rooney last season then
. It was Nani’s excellent crosses into the box in tight games, that won games for us last year. He just needs to get back to that, and probably he would, IF FERGIE would stop trying to accomodate all his strikers, playing them as wingers, and not giving Nani a fair opportunity with a good run of games, to prove his worth. Nani needs to leave to get regular football, and I truly believe that. He could make it big at United, but he won’t, because Fergie would rather bring on STRIKERS to play all at the same time. Nani and Anderson on the bench for the Stoke game, but what happens?. Welbeck, Manucho, Berba etc all on at the same time – SHITE!. Now anyone who says still that Fergie does make tactical substitutions, GET REAL, he throws players on only for minutes on the pitch, which often hurts us. Rant over.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:43
Those boots../.. Lord Jesus!!
November 18th, 2008 at 11:44
@RDE: Martin O’Neil’s reaction is by far the best. Just awesome. Made me burst out laughing at my desk. And now everyone in the office is looking at me. Oh well.
@ Stephen: I agree Nani tries to always get in behind, but given that half the time he just stops for a while wtih his foot on the ball, it makes it really difficult for the strikers. A combination of the two would both make him more unpredictable and give players like Rooney some on a plate (roon tends to sprint forward looking for the cross, then wind up miles offside when it doesn’t come)
November 18th, 2008 at 11:46
@Beachryan: Nani watch videos of Stewart Downing – FFS. Stewart Downing may have his own technique of getting crosses into the box early, but NOT ACCURATELY
.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:49
@Beachryan: We had the same problem with Ronnie and Ruud, Ruus wanted an early delivery and roonie wanted to do his thing, hence their falling out and Ruud being sold!
November 18th, 2008 at 11:51
@Craig Mc: Downing is shit, but can cross the ball but has the trickery of a three legged sloth.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:52
@Craig Mc: Dude when did I say ‘Nani is not a good crosser’???? Relax, mate.
All I said is “personally don’t feel Nani is in that bracket yet!!”.Didn’t mean he is ‘not good’.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:53
He’s good alright, he just needs more focus and more games.
November 18th, 2008 at 12:00
i think Nani needs and deserves a run of games, it will build his confidence which for any winger is important, and yhis will inturn develop an understanding with the forwards.
@Rahul: Current or no current form mate Giggsy has always been a shit crosser.
November 18th, 2008 at 12:20
@Rahul: Rahul mate, you said that Ronnie is a better crosser than Nani, I say
, and tried to state my reasons why. That Nani last season had far more assists than Ronnie. Yet Ronnie had far more goals than anybody, and its looking like he might repeat the more goals tally this year too. I can’t personally agree that Ronnie is a great crosser of the ball, but he is improving even in that department somewhat this season. 
.
November 18th, 2008 at 12:22
@ CraigMC: Expected a response given your Nani-love, and got one
If you’re so blinded by the love that he might turn out a world beater then I won’t bother, but you don’t know much about football if you think Downing doesn’t know how to cross. I fully admit he’s crap at most other things, but probably the best left sided player in the prem at getting useful balls into the box.
Don’t get me wrong, Nani has the potential to be much, much more, I’m just saying that he needs to work on things.
November 18th, 2008 at 12:23
@Stephen: Ahhh Stephen mi man, so I don’t have to get your GF to do one on you after all
. Shame, it could have been a good deal mate 
.
November 18th, 2008 at 12:24
BTW, is there any way to tell how many of Nani’s assist were corners? He does have a tidy delivery, and should be allowed more set pieces out wide IMO (especially as that frees up Ronaldo to go head the ball).
November 18th, 2008 at 12:29
@Beachryan: How the fuck do you know that Nani couldn’t turn out to be world class mate, you a psychic?. One things for sure, he certainly won’t get the opportunity to do so at United. With regards to your Downing love, I didn’t say he cannot cross the ball, I just said IMO he couldn’t cross accurately. I have seen him also play for England, he didn’t last two minutes, because he is shit. And I think Ashley Young is every bit as good as Downing, if not better. You leave my Nani love alone Bro, there ain’t nothing wrong with it
.
November 18th, 2008 at 12:31
@Beachryan: about “Nani has the potential to be much, much more, I’m just saying that he needs to work on things.”.. that’s spot on!!
November 18th, 2008 at 12:32
@Beachryan: Without watching end of season review thru again, I couldn’t answer this question Beachy, BUT one of the many statitician lovers on this blog may well be able to
.
November 18th, 2008 at 12:37
@Rahul: Rahul Bro, he is working his arse off in training, what he needs is a good run of games to get properly match sharp, and give him confidence that Fergie (the Bastard
) rates him. Is he better than Tev is on the wing, course he fecking is, and Rooney too, but Fergie keeps playing them there, and this after he promised not to play the Roon out of position anymore.
November 18th, 2008 at 12:44
@Craig Mc: Calm down bro.. you’re more livid than I was after than Arsenal game.
Don’t think anyone here doubts Nani’s potential.
November 18th, 2008 at 12:50
Yes he is the best option for left wing.. And he desperately needs the run of games.
November 18th, 2008 at 12:53
@ CraigMC: I specifically did say I thought he had great potential, to me what matters is what Fergie does. If he plays Rooney, or Park or whoever out in Nani’s position there has to be a reason for that. I don’t know how well Nani does in training, but there must be some reason that Fergie is preferring other players over him. Like I’ve said before on here, I’m baffled, I think he’s by far our most dangerous wide left player, and would lvoe to see more of him. But there’s gotta be a reason Fergie isn’t choosing him.
November 18th, 2008 at 13:14
@Beachryan: Yeah, there is a reason as I already said mate – Berba, Tev and Rooney, all having to be accomodated, and the fact Nani doesn’t have an attitude when left out or being subbed – maybe he should start to have one, like the others. Anyway, I am tired of having to defend Nani on here, soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
November 18th, 2008 at 13:16
@Rahul: Rahul Bro, if you think this is livid, you haven’t seen the Craig Mc livid yet – this is MILD mate, trust me
.
November 18th, 2008 at 15:17
@Beachryan: He did pay £17m for the lad so he did see something in him, or did CQ buy him and Andy a he did so well with recomending Ronnie?
November 18th, 2008 at 15:19
@Craig Mc: Yeah sounded good to me too!!
November 18th, 2008 at 15:41
@Craig Mc: Nani rules! End of story!
November 18th, 2008 at 15:42
the only logic for not playing Nani on the left is reallt with Evra being such an attacking fullback maybe SAF feels there isn’t much cover there, as we now play more of a 4-4-2.
Without Carrick who is just comming back to fitness and no hargo, we do not have a natural sitter in midfield and maybe he feels we are, or will get over run. When he played Nani last season in semi big games it was on the right with Brown covering, maybe SAF needs to be more ballsey and just give him and Patrice a run?
November 18th, 2008 at 16:03
With the power invested in me by the state of California, I now pronounce RedRants for the best United blog ever!
November 18th, 2008 at 16:07
This whole Nani argument reminds me of a gift grub sketch from last week. Andy Reid hasn’t been selected for Ireland for the last few games but somehow pundits and fans alike have started believing that he is world class so (Mario Rosenstock’s) Roy Keane called the studio saying something like this: ‘I reckon that if he continues not to be selected and I keep him on my subs bench for the rest of the season, then I’ll be able to sell him next season to Real Madrid for around £68m!
Any chance that people may be slightly overrating Nani’s ability and using selective memory where he’s involved?
November 18th, 2008 at 16:08
@Stephen: I agree. I think the Nani situation is not so much about reasons for ‘the exclusion of Nani’, but rather about reasons for ‘the inclusion of Park’. Nani’s strength is offensive, whereas Park is more defensive.
I think SAF does it to keep a balance the offensive skills of Evra, Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez and ShevchenkoII
November 18th, 2008 at 16:23
.
November 18th, 2008 at 16:42
@Liam: Andy Reid is three stone over weight and can’t move, Nani is quick and skillful and under used.
November 18th, 2008 at 16:57
@Liam: Yeah, just like you do with Rooney mate
.
November 18th, 2008 at 17:01
@RedDevilEddy: Yeah Eddy, O wise one
. Don’t let all that California power go to your head now Bro 
.
November 18th, 2008 at 17:03
Shame in a way that Ronnie came back so soon, because this teams striker and other failures without him, were truly being exposed. Viva Ronaldo
.
November 18th, 2008 at 17:12
@Craig Mc: ROFL! hi-hi. Im off to my game, hopefully we get a clean sheet and I score a penalty tonight. Its been a long while since. Ciao.
November 18th, 2008 at 17:47
@Craig Mc: No need to avoid the question. Nobody mentioned Rooney who is about 5 times more important to this team than Nani. Nani hasn’t had a good game all season and IMO until he gets his act together Park is a better option despite all of your propoganda to the contrary
@Stephen: I wasn’t comparing Reid to Nani, it was an analogy
November 18th, 2008 at 17:52
@Liam: I thought Nani was good against West Ham, I am not jumping on the Nani bandwagon, but believe he deserves a run in the side, it would be an attacking option considering we have not scored as many goals this season, and in my view he delivers the best ball in the club right now, and I had an idea of that was an anaolgy mate.
November 18th, 2008 at 17:58
http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_4516546,00.html
Wishing him all the best, it was always his dream and he’s gotten there. Congrats eh!
November 18th, 2008 at 18:14
@Craig Mc: Craig in fairness, Nani has not been a good crosser……THIS YEAR. He was great last year but other than a few passes along the ground I cannot recall a great cross he has delivered this season. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
November 18th, 2008 at 18:18
@Grognard: I can’t remember Park hitting one telling cross ever!
November 18th, 2008 at 18:19
@Craig Mc: Your Nani Love is a special and sentimental thing that none of us can totally understand. It’s similar to my love in with the former great hockey player Bobby Orr. They just don’t understand Craig. And damn it if the girlfriend did either.
Hopefully yours does.
November 18th, 2008 at 18:21
@RedDevilEddy: Did you get Governor Arnold’s backing on that too? In fact, if people don’t think this is the case, they will be terminated.
November 18th, 2008 at 18:23
@Stephen: I totally agree. Hell, I can’t remember the time Park made one telling pass, yet a lone a cross. The boy is just so bloody average. He’s so average, he’d be a star at Liverpool.
November 18th, 2008 at 18:27
@Grognard: He is very average and can never understand why he is played in such crucial games, surely teams should be more concerned about us and not vice versa?
We could do with a natural left sided midfielder as we have, well none, and back up left back, as we have one and I am not counting Fabio, as we lack options in both departments, we have 3 right backs, 3 right midfielders, well 4 if you count Hargo?!
November 18th, 2008 at 18:50
http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editorial/2008/11/18/969252/english-debate-which-manchester-united-youths-will-make-the-grad
It gives me chills! i cant wait to see them
November 18th, 2008 at 19:16
“He’s so average, he’d be a star at Liverpool”
Poor Park, the quality in our wing department is so high, that it makes him looks so average. No doubt, this has contributed to his adoption the blue-collar work ethic, you know, ‘Maybe if I work hard enough, I can compensate for my lack of world class skill’.
I agree Nani should be getting a lot more games than he currently is, but there must be a reason he is not. Maybe it’s attitude, game appreciation or maturity, there is definitely some reason Fergie leaves him out so much. I personally feel it’s up to Nani to prove he wants and deserves the chance to play for the best team in the world.
I’ve never seen a player that frustrates the hell outta me and I’m sure he does the same to Fergie. He so obviously has the talent but misuses it so much and he’s 22 now. An extended run would do him good, but when he flunks most chances given to him, it’s hard for Fergie to ignore other players who might have less skill but work their socks off, determined to get at least a spot in the first team.
With everybody agreeing on the drawbacks of his game, Nani, if he is smart, would work on those aspects of his game and give the gaffer few reasons to exclude him from the 1st team. It doesn’t matter where he goes, if he keeps on the way he is, he will meet the same frustration that he gives those watching and managing him.
November 18th, 2008 at 19:28
@Stephen: And the ironic thing is that with all that depth on the right side, I find that the team tends to like to attack more from the left side. And when things aren’t working well, Fergie shifts Ronaldo to the left so that he can cut in and use his right leg. The need for a truly left sided winger or midfield is vital. But I bet you Fergie thinks Park is just fine.
November 18th, 2008 at 19:32
@Gabriel: In fairness to Park, he didn’t just incorporate that blue collar work ethic. He always had it. Couple that with his Coca Cola division skill set and that is why he is playing in the Prem. Why he is playing with Man Utd on the other hand is a mystery to me. Somehow I think it has to do with the sale of jersey’s in Asia. To have a player on our team from that region is a big deal to people from that region. Even if they are not South Korean. It’s all marketing because there are a ton of players available who could do much better than Park and cost much less. It’s marketing 101.
November 18th, 2008 at 19:37
@ROOOONEY: Here’s a big question I have regarding this so called great talent we have all of a sudden created in our reserves. If this group is so bloody awesome, then why aren’t they disposing of all their competition easily. From last I heard their record amongst reserve teams is only average at best. Please correct me if I am wrong. Might they not be collectively overrated a bit? I have no doubt about Rafael and Possebon but the rest are still a bit of an enigma to me.
November 18th, 2008 at 20:04
@Gabriel: says, “its hard for Fergie to ignore players WHO HAVE LESS SKILL, but work their socks off”. And therein my fellow fans, is the crux of the sad United displays we have had to suffer for a good part of the season so far. As long as you work your socks off, even though you finish bringing no end product, you will still get picked. Screeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeam!. Well, I would rather be entertained by a bit of skill, than watch work horses run around making pretty zig zag patterns all over the pitch. But alas, I feel I might be one of the few who does
.
November 18th, 2008 at 20:10
@Grognard:
Grog, its because we our eyes behold something that others don’t in the lads and lasses we love 
.
November 18th, 2008 at 20:12
@Grognard: Your wrong
.
November 18th, 2008 at 20:20
@Liam: That’s it – it’s your opinion. Rooney is a hot headed lunatic, EVERY single time things are not going his way, or somebody takes the ball off him, he goes into the tackle on them like a malevolent psychopath. How the feck he hasn’t hurt somebody yet with his manic tackling is just down to good fortune. He is an embarassment every time he loses it. He disrespects his body, and everybody elses. He would be 5 times as much to the team as anybody else, if he could keep it to fucking – gether. But everyone saw when Ronnie was out the ineptitude in our strikers. And I mean every word of that. Rooney will not get respect from me until he cleans up his act.
November 18th, 2008 at 20:28
@Liam: I answered your question, you yourself over rate Rooneys ability, and use selective memory where he is concerned.
As for propaganda, this is not a political broadcast, it is a blog for different opinions, and mine are always going to be different to years. Well where Rooney and Nani are concerned anyways.
November 18th, 2008 at 20:50
@Craig Mc: mate, don’t cut off my statement and use that to form a weak point, I said, “An extended run would do him good, but when he flunks most chances given to him, it’s hard for Fergie to ignore other players who might have less skill but work their socks off, determined to get at least a spot in the first team”
Not all players have the same skill, yet they bring some different things to the team. Nani has skill but is frustratingly inconsistent with it, despite just turning 22. This, IMO, is very immature on his part as he has not shown any signs on improving his game appreciation. Park and some others might have less skill but at least they are consistent with what they have to offer and in Park’s case provides extra cover on the wings against certain opposition in addition to the attack qualities he possesses.
Needless to mention the lack of determination and recognition of his opportunity at playing for United. If a player of his quality can’t realise the drawbacks of his present game, which coincidentally, are easy to fix and then work on them, then I’m sorry, someone who is more reliable and appreciative needs to play. He says he doesn’t want to be like Ronaldo but I think he should look at how Ronaldo worked on his previous weaknesses for inspiration. The lad is 22 now and the excuse of being young is moot.
I’m not saying Park should definitely play over Nani, but I do understand Fergie choosing more reliable and appreciative players over some who should be improving but always manage to take a step back after every string of chances afforded to them.
November 18th, 2008 at 22:17
@Gabriel: Gabriel, you know I will never agree with you, but I will AGREE to disagree
. I think Nani does work hard, but others don’t – soooooooooooo. Nani would always be in my team, but not in the team of many of you judging by the comments, but that’s fandom as I have said before, and doesn’t make anyone’s opinion better than anybody elses. Okay this is my team, and whoever the rest of you pick, my team would KICK YOUR ARSES 
.
FOSTER
BROWN RIO/EVANS VIDIC EVRA
HARGO CARRICK
RONNIE BERBA MANUCHO/ROONEY GREAT MAN
NANI
Bring it on.
November 18th, 2008 at 22:18
@ROOOONEY: Oh my, what is the world coming to, an article actually rating our youngsters and not jacking off over Arsenal’s like everyone does.
@Grognard: The same can be said of Arsenal, I don’t see their reserves winning everything in sight right now, but everyone waxes lyrical talking about them.
November 18th, 2008 at 22:19
The great man is Nani by the way, NOT Rooney –
.
November 18th, 2008 at 22:40
@Craig Mc: Aww Craigy, you know I love our man Nani
and that’s why I get so frustrated with him. He is simply not utilising his bountiful talents effectively. When he plays, he shows glimpses of what he can do, yet does them at the wrong times or not at all. Probably he’s under the spell of that beautiful girlfriend of his and he can’t get his head in the game 
Nani would definitely be in my team, infact if I had to pick a team from the world selection, Nani would get a serious consideration. He has all the qualities but is not showing the sense to use them properly or more so the game appreciation needed for a player of his age. He really needs to step-up and show/prove he wants to become a great player, cause for now, it seems he is taking his talents and opportunity for granted and I and probably Fergie am not impressed at all. Maybe it’s the regular bench warming that will get his head right in the game, who knows?
November 18th, 2008 at 22:47
@Craig Mc: the fact that you have Manucho on a level standing with Rooney shows that there is just no talking to you
and on Rooney being a ‘psychopath’ as far as I know he has the same amount of red cards as Nani for United. Oh and he didnt headbutt a player to get it. I like Nani and I want him to succeed but that won’t happen unless he grows up and soon
November 18th, 2008 at 23:08
@Craig Mc: I thought I might be. What color is the sky in Craig’s world by the way?
November 18th, 2008 at 23:12
@Liam: I feel exactly the same way about Rooney, and how you can defend his behaviour and hotheadedness, well that says a lot about you Liam. It happened once with Nani. he publically apologised and hasn’t been in trouble since. That cannot be said about Rooney, and that he doesn’t have a collection of red cards means nothing – because if Ref’s had followed the rules, he would have had so many. Commentators in the England game were all saying that he was doing everything to get himself sent off, as he always does with England. So you will never get me defending Rooney, and the fact I have Manucho in my team, is for heading ability which we lack in the box, and also because Tev cannot play with Berba. If Tev could gel with Berba I wouldn’t have Rooney in my team at all. You would have him in yours, and fine thats your right to choose, but don’t put Nani in the same NASTY temperament as Rooney, because he is nowhere near Rooney’s PERSISTENT hotheaded, dangerous tackling, when he is dispossessed. If you deny that, then don’t discuss with me any further, because every single Pro footballer and sports commentator talks about Rooneys suspect temperament. Anyway, thats my last word on this, I don’t respect Rooney’s behaviour and I find it embarrassing and undefendable when talking to supporters from other clubs, who have a point about his nastiness.
November 18th, 2008 at 23:14
@Rd: You are probably right. I think too much is made of these kids. Much ado about nothing. Most of them will never make it on United, that’s for sure. And just for good measure, lets not forget we also have Frazer Campbell too. And he scored a great goal for England’s Under 21’s today and was also the man of the match. Fergie would probably place on the wing or have him play LB though.
November 18th, 2008 at 23:15
@Grognard: Whatever colour you would like it to be Grog
. I think I will stick to red though, Viva Viva Salford Reds mate, and Canadian Reds too 
.
November 18th, 2008 at 23:16
@Craig Mc: The Great man looks like a puffy Michael Jackson wannabe. I will not be satisfied until he scores a goal and does a moonwalk dance afterwards.
November 18th, 2008 at 23:18
Wow Grog, sounds like Fasier is scoring goals for fun lately. Good for him
.
November 18th, 2008 at 23:19
@Grognard:
, I will alert him to your request Grog, and he does an unbelievable moon walk 
.
November 18th, 2008 at 23:21
@Craig Mc: But Rooney has accomplished so much more than Nani and so there is no comparison. Rooney is on 99 goals and Nani is on ???? Rooney has had many many great moments and scored many wonderful goals and Manucho has done what exactly?????
My United dream team is exactly like yours except for that ridiculous inclusion of Manucho. Bro, wake up, have a shot of Scotch and grab a reality pill. Manucho is not in the same universe as Rooney. Yes Rooney can get on all our nerves but he is still a world class player. Manucho has played for Angola, sat on the bench at Panathinaikos and done very little on the United reserve squad. Come on mate????? But I do have Nani on my left side. Damn them all, I will see him do a moon dance before it’s all said and done. 
November 18th, 2008 at 23:22
@Craig Mc: I like turquoise myself.
November 18th, 2008 at 23:24
@Craig Mc: Thanks Craig and tell him to grease that little curl of hair in front of his face and to put on sunglasses when he celebrates too. I can’t wait. Thriller!!!!!
November 18th, 2008 at 23:28
@Gabriel: Mmmmmmm Gabriel, with his GF I wouldn’t have my head in the game either
. Where Nani is concerned though, due to Fergie it is not just his head, but every part of his body he can’t get into a game, because he certainly doesn’t get the opportunity Ronnie had does he. Fergie persevered with Ronnie was he was just like Nani when he first came. Anyway, no use going on about it because Fergie loves who he loves. When I win the billions on the lottery, I will buy my own top club, and I will NAB these players from United – Nani, Ronnie, Evans, Manucho, Hargo, Wes, Macheda, Foster for sure. Ronnie will love to come play for me, as he will FEEL THE LOVE, as will the others 
.
November 18th, 2008 at 23:31
@Craig Mc: remember Roy Keane and Eric Cantona? As far as I can remember they were no Angels and together probably missed about a year of play due to bans. Are they remembered by you as psychos? Rooney has probably missed about 3 or 4 games due to suspension. By your reckoning, Scholes must be a psycho as well seeing as how he makes bad challenges. If every player who made bad challenges was banned or not played most teams would struggle to field a team
November 18th, 2008 at 23:31
@Grognard: Haha – Grog, do you want him to wear his knickers outside his shorts too – I can make it happen
.
November 18th, 2008 at 23:36
@Craig Mc: Ronaldo was 17 when he joined and was at a higher level than Nani is now at 22. That’s why he was given a bigger chance, because he was, and is, a better player!
November 18th, 2008 at 23:39
@Liam: Scholesy doesn’t do it in hotheadness though, going psycho and diving in with intent – Rooney does. Scholesy is just rank bad at mistimed tackles. I have never considered scholesy to be a dirty player. Keane – yes I do not respect him either, he was a psycho and admitted that he deliberately went in to MAIM Alfie Hyland. How do you respect a thug – I don’t. Cantona was a great player, but he too was psycho in that challenge and the fan, and he payed the price for it. However, Cantona where other players were returned waited for the ref to give the free kicks, when they didn’t that’s when Cantona went chasing after vengeance. Do I think that’s psycho, yes I do. With regards to Rooney, don’t play silly buggars with your comments, I am not talking about hard tackling, I am talking about a wild, hotheadedness in Rooney, that causes him to go in manically when he has lost the ball to an opposing player. Its SCOUSE fucking pride and everyone knows it.
November 18th, 2008 at 23:44
@Liam: Ronnie is also miles better than your mate Rooney, though you wouldn’t admit that. It was patently bloody obvious to everybody though when Ronnie was out earlier in the season, and our strikers were shite.
November 18th, 2008 at 23:47
@Grognard: Turquoise?, Grog, that colour makes a person feel sea sick
.
November 18th, 2008 at 23:55
@Grognard: You bring up a good point about the resreve team not winning. I could only come out with 2 possible explanations.
1. The point of the team is not to win but to develop and groom players for the senior team. Maybe the coach is told to play certain players in certain positions to help them grow even if its to the detriment of the team. I could definately see the chemistry being out of wack, and where a less talented player would be left on the bench even if he is a better fit for the team.
2. The top players are really good, and the others are Rubbish. Just because we have a few “youth stars” doesnt mean the whole team is talented.
I have never seen a youth game in its entirety, and I will readily admit to not having a working knowledge of the youth setup. I am just bringing up some possibilties of why the youth team arent World Beaters.
Does anyone else here have a good understanding of the youth program? If so I would be greatly interested in your to insight to the point that grognard posted.
November 18th, 2008 at 23:55
@Craig Mc: so Scholes getting sent off against Liverpool for taking a swing at Alonso isnt hotheaded?
Rooney has made 1 bad tackle this season and is branded a thug. Tackles like that happen when I play in School and with my friends all the time. You get up, shake hands and its over. I am really getting fed up arguing about your little vendetta against Rooney. He could probably score in every game for the rest of the season and you would call it lucky and he hasn’t done it consistently since he was 17 
November 19th, 2008 at 0:04
@Craig Mc: riiiggghhhttt so because I think Rooney is better than Nani I’m somehow his mate? This is just childish picking your favourite player on the team and somehow thinking every other player is inferior even though they have better records and have constantly been nominated for World and European player of the year
November 19th, 2008 at 0:12
@Grognard: Grog, I will take Manucho, cos like Nani I HAVE FAITH , and I see in some folk what others don’t. I just take to some players, and others get up my nose Grog. In the right team, with the right encouragement and that consistently, I can see them doing good Grog. I get into spats with people about players I think could come good, I see something, and I root for them. I just don’t follow the sheep and root for the supposed wonder players that others root for. I like the little people Grog
.
Anyway, I promised JB I was going to lighten up and tone it down, so I will give it up now, and BUY RONNIE, NANI, MANUCHO, EVANS, HARGO, WES, FOSTER, when I get my billions lottery win
.
November 19th, 2008 at 0:14
JB, I am trying Bro – honest
.
November 19th, 2008 at 1:51
@Craig Mc: Hell he can wear white socks and black dancing shoes so long as he crosses the ball well and hits a couple of 20 yard bombs into the goal.
November 19th, 2008 at 1:53
@Craig Mc: Ok call it teal then.
November 19th, 2008 at 2:00
@Craig Mc: Hey I know what you mean mate. I too will take to a certain player and nobody can convince me but myself that this player will not be great. I’m like that right now about Rafael and Possebon. And although I am not an Arsenal fan, I have to admit I always believed that Theo Walcott would shut up his doubters. And you know, he almost has. I have nothing against Manucho and I hope he does well and proves to everyone that he belongs. Same goes for Welbeck and Campbell but one has to seriously question how any of them will ever get a proper chance to prove themselves on Manchester United when there are players like Berbatov, Rooney and Tevez in front of them and keeping them down? And even if Tevez was to leave at the end of the season, I see the United management looking to buy someone else like Ivisivic from Hoffenheim rather than promoting one of the three. It’s too bad too because I think all three could be great if given the chance.
November 19th, 2008 at 2:21
Fraizer Campbell
Am just glad than Fergie only allowed for a season loan. I’m sure that if he be sold as part of the Berba deal, he would be starting every game at spurs and the tottingham fans mocking us.
November 19th, 2008 at 2:43
Somehow, this doesn’t surprise me. I always had a slight hunch that the medical staff or part of the player helath support staff at United weren’t doing their job… Who knows, maybe we’d be having less injuries if the players were more health conscious..
November 19th, 2008 at 3:30
@NicoQB: Pique is an idiot, training at a high level every day allows you to eat what ever you want. When I played basketball in college, I could eat and drink as much as I liked and not gain weight. when you are working out 4+ hours a day with high intensity it is virtually impossible to gain weight. And if Pique had such a superior diet, then how come he couldnt crack the line up?
November 19th, 2008 at 3:40
@Craig Mc: I dont know what it is about Manucho, but I too have faith in him. There is something about him that made Fergie give him a contract. Why else would Fergie give a 3 year deal to a uncapped 24 year old who only played in the Angolan league(no disrespect to Angolan Football, I just dont know how good the league is.) The only thing I can think of is that he must have impressed during his trial and fergie said “ehh why not”.
I realize the odds are stacked against him ever making it at United. Tevez is a world class player(contrary to what some on this blog would have you believe) and he can barely get a game. Welbeck and Campbell look promising and they are both far yonger than him, and in sports when talent is equal youth is always the tie breaker. Not to mention we have more youngsters in the pipeline eager for a chance.
Having said all that, I am still hoping he makes it at United… call me crazy.
November 19th, 2008 at 3:42
@johnsom33:
And if Pique had such a superior diet, then how come he couldnt crack the line up?
Because, perhaps, having a superior diet is not the main deciding factor between making the cut and not making it? And the fact that we had Rio and Vidic ahead of him. No mugs in defending, one would suppose.
That said, we have players like Ronaldo, Park, Nani, EVDS, Rio, Vidic, Evra, who are clearly not fat. Only person who has weight issues is Rooney — so I really wonder what Pique is on about.
November 19th, 2008 at 7:02
Man, the Nani thing is still going on!!!
And on the Rooney thing, he is a madman when he loses control of himself (which follows when he loses the ball). The way he viciously dives into tackles could have resulted in a Eduardo type sabbaticals for about a dozen players by now.
That said, he is still the (joint) most influential player in our team.
November 19th, 2008 at 7:25
@johnsom33: Sorry mate but eating well isn’t just about losing or maintaining weight. Too much of the food we eat these days is nothing more than shit. Filled with fat, cholesterol, and all kinds of chemical additives. And it kills us or destroys our longevity over time. Players who eat greasy fried foods like fish and chips will play just as well or better than Pique, but will they last as long in the game before their body starts to break down? It’s not about weight. It’s about blood pressure, blood sugar, and trying not to accelerate the aging process. Trust me, I know of what I speak. A proper diet is vital for the longevity of players in a sport that is not that great to begin with. In football, players often pass their prime in their late 20’s. The sport demands the premium and too many great players have not been able to maintain the highest level for very long because of drink or diet or both. Ask some of the fat slobs who drank and ate themselves into early retirement but who were skinny as hell when they were 23.
November 19th, 2008 at 7:26
@Rahul: Hey, I have an idea…..Lets talk about Nani.
November 19th, 2008 at 8:24
@Grognard: Sure,.. not much is spoken of him these days!
November 19th, 2008 at 8:45
@Red Ranter: Let’s have a new post please… we’re already on the 4th day of this one!
November 19th, 2008 at 9:46
@johnsom33: Johnsom Bro, I saw Manucho in the african cup, and he was just great. Whether he can produce that on the OT stage I just don’t know, but I would like to see him play a few full games, if only in the carling cup, just so we can at least come to some proper judgement about whether he has anything to give us or not. He is okay in the reserve games, he doesn’t seem to dally on the ball, keeping hold of it and dallying about as others do, he seeks to move it on and set others on runs as soon as he gets it. West Brom want to take him for 5 million, or on loan at least in January, so that might not be a bad way to see if he can cut it, and to keep him playing first team football
.
November 19th, 2008 at 9:49
@johnsom33: Truth is Johnsom bro, Pique would have made the 1st team in most other clubs. He was a good player, and Evans and him would have been great replacements for giving Rio/Vid a rest, instead of flogging them to death in every game.
November 19th, 2008 at 9:52
Just browsing here, few thoughts:
1. Anyone who thinks Scholes is a mild-mannered player who occasionally ‘accidentally’ ‘mistimes’ his challenges is viewing the world through red and ginger glasses. He is an incredibly nasty player when need be, and if he didn’t look so damn innocent (and was an angel off the pitch) he’d of been sent off even more. Listen to ex-pros that have played against him.
2. Rooney is a hot head and charges around like a bull in a china shop but its actaully quite rare his tackles have been dangerous, hence why he hasn’t been sent off. The exception is at hull. He’s surprisingly good at judging his tackles when in the red mist. You can still see it coming a mile away (he gets kicked but doesn’t get a foul, and he just clicks into retribution mode) but he normally does try to tackle fairly to get the ball back. off the top of my head I can think of more than a few times he’s been carded simply for the pursuit, rather than the tackle (Everton this season, some point against c**ntly cole last season). But it is something to get sorted out, sharpish. I think Fergie should sit him every game after he goes nuts. Or pull him off the pitch immediately everytime he starts it up.
3. Nani is talented. No one is denying that. He is also frustrating and inconsistent. He deserves a run in the team, and will likely get over 30 games this season. More importantly, he can’t moonwalk as a celebration because that’s impossbile in boots with studs. He should do the thriller dance instead.
4. Frazier Campbell was a cut above everyone else on the pitch in the U21 game last night. It might have been just the comparison with some reasonbly crappy players, but he was immense, always a threat. I hope we at least give him a chance as our 4th choice.
5. How on Earth does anyone know anything at all about Manucho? I watched the ACN when I could, and he looked okay, scored a great goal but wasn’t involved all that much. From Saturday wasn’t impressed at all. And he couldn’t get off the bench in Greece. Now maybe he’ll turn out to be a world beater, but what evidence is there to suggest that at this point?
November 19th, 2008 at 10:21
Which player in the current United squad would you clone and use as all 10 outfield players?…who would make the best team, or, who would give you most pleasure to watch?
I’m picking 10 Rafaels
Just for the sheer exhuberance
November 19th, 2008 at 10:23
@Beachryan: Rooney makes some God awful challenges when in red mist mode as well mate!
I agree about Manucho, I have watched clips of him and watche dhim live last Saturday, and though this touch was poor, but put that down to pos nerves.
Scholes is a walking God, end of !!
Nani is inconsistant but probably needs a run to try and develop some form in my view, he is certainly better than Park!!
November 19th, 2008 at 10:45
@Craig Mc: We need to start our first chice centre backs matey, that is one position I do not agree we should rotate, alao Pique was a little slow for the prem and I remember Anelka out muscling him last season
November 19th, 2008 at 10:49
@ Stephen – agree about Nani, get that man a starting place (though he clearly won’t on Saturday, as he’ll only just be back from Brasil).
Actually this weekend could be another ‘everton’ for us. Ronnie, Ando and Nani probably won’t start due to travels. Rooney, Rio, Gary, Wes, Fletch have all been injured. Park has a pretty hefty travel time too. Berba and Vidic will hopefully not kill each other in Bulgaria…the list goes on. Hopefully Agbonlahor, Barry and Young all get the full 90 mins for England tonight
November 19th, 2008 at 10:55
@Beachryan: Or get injured ideally!
Fergie will start Ronnie, but not Nani, for the reasons stipulated on this site for the past 24 hours, nor Andy simply he hasn’t played well enough.
These next games are going to be tough and could shape our season either way, Villa, City Ok Sunderland @ home but then Spurs away, will er be fun!
November 19th, 2008 at 11:07
i agree on some level with all of you. Fact is every player on this planet will benefit from an extended run in the side (nani inc) . you see with Nani, he is on the verge of either greatness, you will run the risk of fading. he does deliver the best crosses in our team, will track back when neccessary and has a heck of a shot on either foot, and isnt afraid to try. oh yes and is the most frustrating footballer ever. truth is his decison making is what costs him his place in the team. fergie trusts park to make better decisions. you can see nani making decisons that will lead oppositions punishing us on the counter. however he is one heck of a talent but he is not a youngster anymore. 22 is pretty ripe in todays standard of football.
November 19th, 2008 at 11:11
tomaz
brown RIO VIDIC evra
fletch carrick
anderson(covers the left when neccesary)
ronaldo rooney/tevez (tuckin in to the left of the berb)
the berb
November 19th, 2008 at 11:11
@One united: 22 is old by todays standards of football mate, it is now a younger mans game, but I agree in all your other points mate!
November 19th, 2008 at 12:19
@magno: I’d clone all those who Fergie pisses around with, just to piss Fergie off, because they will at least get a feckin game
.
November 19th, 2008 at 12:24
@Craig Mc: 10 Nani’s then mate!!
November 19th, 2008 at 12:25
@Stephen: 22 is old ? Feck me mate, I must be a positive geriatric at 24 yrs young then
.
November 19th, 2008 at 12:29
@Craig Mc: Won’t how old I am then!!
Nah wasn’t saying that he was old just saying football is a young mans game in gerneral, old boy!
November 19th, 2008 at 12:51
@Stephen: Imagine the somersaults going on when one of those Nani’s scored!
November 19th, 2008 at 12:59
@magno: It will be like Billy Smarts circus!!!
November 19th, 2008 at 13:14
@magno: He’s already scored twice Magno, and it was accompanied by the obligatory somersaults
.
November 19th, 2008 at 13:16
@Stephen: Now that is a happy thought, isn’t it
.
November 19th, 2008 at 13:18
Yeah, but 10 at once, the ref would have to take cover
November 19th, 2008 at 13:19
@Stephen: 10 Nani’s on the pitch, like you say it will be like the carnival all over the pitch – with 10 Nani’s somersaulting all at the same time. Thing is though, I would put him in goal too, so he could somersault all over the bloody place to stop those goals our defence keep leaking these days
.
November 19th, 2008 at 13:22
PS – the opposition teams would be so bloody confused with all those somersaulting Nani’s giving it some welly
.
November 19th, 2008 at 13:24
If the diet is crap and they are drinking I also think it will catch up with them over time. It may not go to their bellies during their playing careeer but they would have more energy and feel better if they ate properly.
Rooney I imagine is the worst offender and his crap diet might explain why he keeps going down with various viruses and chest infections! As well as his weight gain over the summer.
To be honest sometimes I do not understand SAF. God knows how our foreign brigade do.
I do not know why Pique would say all those things. Maybe he wanted more of a chance to make it at Manchester United, and I agree that we should have rested Rio and Vidic a bit more to give Pique games. But we sold him to his dream club at a very affordable fee.
November 19th, 2008 at 13:26
@colver: Its probably the usual honest spanish press creating their own stories again!
November 19th, 2008 at 17:51
@colver: Foreign players don’t understand our boozing culture and diet. Professionals abroad have strict diet, booze free and healthy exercise and sleep routines. A lot of the foreign professional not just Pique have said that the dietary, and drinking ill discipline of British players is renowned. You know its true. That is why Pique would have been surprised by it all
.
November 19th, 2008 at 17:53
England reserves versus Germany tonight – anybody watching the game?. It won’t be telling us much, with our reserves out, and being a friendly and all.
November 19th, 2008 at 18:06
@colver: @Grognard: Exactly!
Look at Ryan Giggs. He is known to follow diets and take care off hs body, hence the reason why he is still fit (whether he can still play is another debate entirely).
Ronaldo too, is known to take care of his body (Fergie reckons he doesn’t drink) and that may be on of the reasons why he is incredibly fit and doesn’t often pick up injuries, not like Rooney in any case.
Maybe Rooney wouldn’t be having his metarstal injuries if he had a good diet, his bones being stroger. And we all know how Rooney’s frequent injuries affect his form.
About Pique, I’m not sure if there was any malevolent intent in him saying that. Perhaps he should have known better, but he was talking about life and football in general and comparing Barca with united when he made these comments…
In any case, I always thought that we were always subjected to way too many injuries. It seems almost like normal for 5 or 6 of our first team players to be injured, whereas at any other club it would be branded as an injury crisis…
November 19th, 2008 at 18:27
@Stephen: No Craig would insist that Nani also can play GK, so make that 11 Nani’s.
November 19th, 2008 at 18:29
@Craig Mc: Cirque De Nani!
November 19th, 2008 at 19:12
can any one see us getting 12 points from the next 4 prem games?
i honestly cant!! villa away, citeh away, sunderland home(3points), spurs away! plus weve got villa real away between villa n citeh! am i the only one who is worried?
November 19th, 2008 at 19:21
@colver: Fergie comes from an old school way of thinking and doing things. Back when he played the players gorged themselves before and after games on plenty of proteins like steak and even more on carbs like bread and chips. Top that off with the ale and you had a reason for playing so hard. The meals were worth it. And I’m sure Fergie never ever figured that a diet of British staple foods would be considered unhealthy for athletes. Proper nutrition and counting calories as well as intake of specific food groups has only been taken seriously over the past decade or so.
Modern sports medicine and sports science in country’s like the USA, Canada, Germany and Sweden have uncovered many fallacies about old school diets and have uncovered that traditional eating is incredibly unhealthy and not desired long term fuel for athletes.
Juergen Klinsmann for example completely revolutionized the way Germany prepared for tournaments by changing the mentality of players from the kind of training regiments, eating habits and leisure habits they were used to. He brought over many new American methods in training and preparation. Among those was a very focused and tunnel vision oriented regiment that put players on fitness training tracks and also imposed specific diets to improve their health, stamina and cardiovascular conditioning. He also created a pleasant looking compound environment where they trained where life seemed Utopian and where distractions were at a bare minimum. Not realistic action to be taken by a club side but then again, some of the actions wouldn’t hurt.
There are many ways to train but there are ways to train that can help a player increase and improve areas of his physical endurance, capacity as well as enhance his ability and skill set that Fergie and other old school gaffers have never ever considered. Hell, it took six months of beating these ideas into the heads of the German national side before they started to get it and before the changes started to show their effect. Why? Well stubbornness for one, but every time the team took two weeks to play a few World Cup qualifiers and get into Klinsmann’s routine, the cycle would be broken when the players would go back to the bad habits their clubs had helped create for them. Only when Klinsmann had the team for two months straight and had them closed off from the world and wags did his measures and changes benefit and bare fruit. And we know how well Germany played in the World Cup despite the fact they weren’t overly talented and despite having the pressure of their entire country on their shoulders as they were the hosts. Only Italy stood in their way from a world championship. Different training, exercise and eating regiments made the difference but it took time and an Herculean effort by Klinsmann and Joachim Lowe to undo the many years of bad habits in training, preparing and poor eating habits that Germany had to exorcise out of their systems and collective souls. Simply put, the old way wasn’t working anymore.
Now more and more clubs are incorporating elements of these new wave ideas for running a football club. Klinsmann himself has had a Hell of a job trying to implement his own mantra with Bayern Munich. The epitome of old school stubbornness, Bayern has surprisingly moved to change many of their methods of playing and training. But bad habits it seems, die slowly. I give their board and hierarchy like Hoeness, Rummenigge and even Beckenbauer great credit in being open to this new wave approach to modern football. Klinsmann’s approach will take some time. Older players are the hardest to change. Old habits die hard. But they seem to be patient with Klinsmann and they saw a need for change from the old ways when the team seemed so stagnant and lethargic in it’s style and play over the past few years. They won titles under Hitzfeld but they didn’t particularly play attractive football nor did they perform well in Europe. A new approach was felt needed. Especially since many teams in Germany, most notably minnow and present Bundesliga leader Hoffenheim have incorporated many of Klinsmann’s beliefs in training. Add to that a fast paced almost lightning fast style of play and Klinsmann’s training methods and Hoffenheim is rocking the footballing world with their dazzling offensive style. The Hoffenheim manager has a few strict beliefs that are interesting to note. In order to implement radical changes in training, diet and especially in fast play, he required ownership to not sign anyone over 24 years old to play for the team. Not because a 28 year old was not good enough, but because older and experienced were mentally and physically incapable and unwilling to change their way of living as well, they were not willing to run their socks off like the younger players are, with no questions asked. So you wonder then why coaches all over the world are focusing more on speed, health, training and diet than they ever did. Strategy and tactics have taken second place to these other elements. The advantage today is by outlasting, outhustling and outliving your opponent. Speed and longevity is found through dedication, discipline and hard work. Tactics, desire and other old school ideals are still there, but they are not the driving force for many European football clubs anymore. And managers like Fergie, Hitzfeld, Scolari etc, are going to eventually be left in the dust when this revolution passes them by too.
This radical new wave in football hasn’t hit England quite yet, although Fabio Capello who admires much of this stuff is trying to implement diet and training changes for the national side, despite being continually sabotaged byt club managers and by players who are older and more set in their stubborn old school ways. No more wags, poor eating and nights out is the new rules for Fabio’s England. And if Terry, Gerrard, Rooney and Ferdinand want to be part of it, they had better conform. Tough to do when all that is not allowed with Capello, is encouraged by Fergie, Benitez, Scollari etc.
Will Sir Alex succumb to the fact that chips and gravy are not what his boys should be stuffing their faces with, and then washing it down with a Newcastle ale and good shagging? I think the term dinosaur comes to mind. And still, we win despite it all. Good for you Fergie. You show them all that being a beer drinking steak eating wag shagging fat bastard is the only way to be.
November 19th, 2008 at 19:31
@NicoQB: I totally agree. Rooney is a disgrace when it comes to discipline and training. He comes to camp over weight like players used to in the old days. He uses the training camp and exhibition games to lose the weight and get in condition. That’s the way old school hockey players used to operate and then they wondered why they had lost their speed and abilities by the age of thirty. Today player are playing at their very top level until they reach 40. All because Russian and European methods in training, fitness and diet came over the water and became part of North America’s way of training and preparing for the game of hockey. Before then, they ate like pigs, drank like drunks, smoked like chimney’s and then they wondered why they broke down so fast. Nutrition and health is the new mantra in sports. It no longer takes a back seat to strategy, tactics and skills. Now team constantly beat other teams because they are more fit and healthy, not because they have more talent. Perhaps that’s not the way it should be, but that is the way it has become. Hard work and personal discipline will get you a lot farther than skill, talent and a fat belly. That is why Ronaldo of Portugal is going to go a lot farther than Ronaldo of Brazil. And why Ronaldo of Portugal will still be heard from 6 or 7 years from now while Wayne Rooney will be fat memory. England has to kill the culture that has created this lack of proper discipline in health and diet. The pub mentality needs to die with players if they are to adhere to the new generation of requirements in the game. And for those who don’t, their careers will be drastically shortened or altered.
November 19th, 2008 at 19:34
@NicoQB: Pique is the wrong man to be saying all this. He was slow to take to the English game and slow footed as well. Bottom line is he wasn’t good enough to play first team at Man Utd and none of the modern day ways of training, eating or shagging would have made him better. He sounds very bitter to me. I think he should still be bitter because the bench feels just the same in Barcelona as it does at OT. He’s what I refer to as a real loser.
November 19th, 2008 at 19:35
@death or victory-mufc: I’m predicting 7 points out of 12. Two wins, a draw and a loss.
November 19th, 2008 at 19:47
@Grognard so do you still think we can win yhe league based with 7 pionts from them games? think dippers have 4 easy ones youd expect them to win! chelski have a couple of dogey ones but its chelski! were behind 5 point plus the 5 your predicting we’ll lose that 10
November 19th, 2008 at 20:14
Feckin press!! Don’t they ever get tired off manipulating words in order to slag off United??
Geez, i’m sure Pique was commenting about how United don’t have to heavily abide by totalitarian diets and still perform, yet the Spanish scum will find a way to twist his words. I mean, the guy left us a goodbye letter when he was leaving. Last week, he had nothing but good things to say about United, and in this article, the media scum chose to ignore the part where he stated that ‘in United he became a player’. 
I don’t for one second believe we have bad dieting or training regimes at United. They might not be on par with some parts of the world, but they are good enough to keep us ticking all the way to the latter stages of the season, which coincidentally, is the period when we are more impressive, why, because we are fit and other teams have burnt out. Also, look at most of the players that spent their formative careers in United; Giggs, Scholes, The Nevilles, Beckham, Butt etc, most of them were/are still playing at the top level well into their thirties.
Seriously, when will this constant stream of bile aimed at our club end??? Maybe that’s the price we have to pay for Double Champions and if it is, I’m happy for us to keep on winning, even tho the haters keep piling up.
November 19th, 2008 at 20:44
NOOOO BERBA IS INJURED
November 19th, 2008 at 20:57
@ROOOONEY: What??? How???
November 19th, 2008 at 21:10
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1087553/Berbatov-injured-veteran-Milosevic-leads-Serbias-rout-beleaguered-Bulgaria.html
; ;
November 19th, 2008 at 22:17
@ROOOONEY: SHIT!!!
Meeningless international friendlies, I hate them. 
With Berba and Rooney injured for Saturday(probably), who would you go for in attack? Ronaldo, Nani and Anderson may be doubts because of long way back to England. So that leaves us with this team:
FOOKING INTERNATIONALS!!!
VDS
Rafael Evans Vidic Evra
Fletcher Carrick Giggs Park
Tevez Welbeck
WTF?
November 19th, 2008 at 22:31
@RedDevilEddy: Shame, I know. The injuries hit when we looked to be getting into our stride. Still, I hope my fellow Ghanaian Welbeck plays, Id like to see more of him
November 19th, 2008 at 23:04
@death or victory-mufc: I’ve said for weeks now that this year’s team is not going to win a bloody thing. And I’ll stick to that although the League Cup is a possibility I guess. Too many road games against the best teams in the league all in the first half of the season. I said right when the schedule was made public that it was intentionally stacked against us because of the fact that the top nine opponents against us in the league got to play us at their parks in the first half. By the second half comes it will already be over and so whatever we do, it will be too little and too late. Sure that’s pessimistic and negative but lets look at the reality. How many road games against top opponents in the first half, and how many times do we have a road game against a top opponent the weekend after a tough Champions League clash? This smells of a conspiracy by the the League the FA and those responsible for this atrocity of justice. In all my years of watching the grand old game or other sports, I have never ever seen a schedule that was so unfair and unjust. It is a disgrace and a crime and I am absolutely amazed at how few of you seem to make any comment about it and even more perplexed by those of you who don’t think it’s a reason for our dip in form and position in the standings. WAKE UP PEOPLE!
November 19th, 2008 at 23:09
@ROOOONEY: Great so now all the Tevez fudge packers will get a chance to see Tevez start once again with Rooney and will finally realize that Tevez is truly not as good nor as valuable as they seem to think. Let him prove me wrong. Here is Carlito’s chance to prove me wrong. Come on Carlito, score a legitimate goal and show me you are capable of playing on this team again instead of playing your dramatic chicken with his head cut off role which of late, has become rather boring and uninspiring. I’m looking for substance in his game now, not just effort. Show me the money Carlito.
November 19th, 2008 at 23:18
@Grognard: yeah but all the other top teams still have to play those games and it’s not exactly an insurmountable mountain. We’ll win the title if we are within 10 points at Christmas (even though I’d put my money on us being a lot closer). Chelsea have OT, Anfield and the Emirates to go to and they aren’t the model for consistency this season despite what critics will tell you. Lampard will burn out towards the end of the season, Essien will be dodgy when returning from injury and when he plays he is vital to whether they win or lose. There are a lot of intangibles so no need to give up. As they say, the league isn’t won in November!
it’s only 5 points after we hammer Fulham and I for 1 can see us winning the next 4 games. We have Villa’s number, Citeh i think will be a scrappy victory (although they do have a few sleeping giants that they bought this Summer waiting for a breakout performance, but they crumble under pressure), Sunderland’s a banker and Spurs will have fallen back into their slump by then
November 19th, 2008 at 23:25
That England vs Germany game was true yawner. Why in God’s name would they even schedule a game of that kind of history and magnitude and place it in the middle of a domestic schedule which would do nothing but sabotage the power and importance of the game. Both teams were a disgrace and played with no intensity or emotion. England were worthy winners despite the fact that fielded a B-Side and despite the fact that Terry is a cunt who cost them their goal against and then scored a goal where he was off side and yanking on Westermann’s shirt. Ah many wll say sour grapes by the Grognard because his beloved Germany lost. Well not so, England deserved to win the game because they were the better of two teams that couldn’t give a shit tonight. Why was this game played and why these two teams. These two sides with their long historic rivalry deserve a better date where the game can be given more meaning and where clubs wouldn’t sabotage the manager’s selection of players by faking injury after injury. Rooney, Rio, Lampard, Gerrard, J. Cole, A. Cole, all missing because of mysterious ailments. I bet you each and every one of them plays on the weekend. Amazing how quickly and timely the body heals itself eh? On Germany’s side they sat down Lahm, Ballack and a few others who were legitimately injured so I give them a little more credit but their lack of focus and seriousness during the match told me that they were just going through the motions and winning the game was never really something that enteredt there minds until they scored that brutal equalizer after Carson and Terry screwed up so beautifully. On the German side, it was a shame that the highly touted and highly skilled Adler botched up a cross to give England the lead. Other than those two boner plays, the game was a bore until Wright Phillips hit the post and until Terry scored his off side goal. Granted he was barely off side when the ball was played, but he did have a hand full of Westermann’s jersey which helped him make his heroic leap and well placed header. Two things made me sick about that goal. That it was against Germany but more so, that John Terry scored it. I challenge myself to think if there is an athlete on the planet that I despise more than John Terry? I think not. Now lets forget about this pub game that was played in Berlin and get back to the important stuff in the domestic league. I’m so fucking sick and tired of useless friendlies and internationals getting in the way of and in some cases hurting team’s domestic campaigns. Ask Wenger what he thinks of this useless game now that he has lost Walcott for ten weeks? And who knows how long Berbatov will be missing for us. Fuck FIFA, fuck them straight to Hell.
November 19th, 2008 at 23:30
i always thought that when we got tevez because we could not get anyone else. dont hit me tevez fans
November 19th, 2008 at 23:35
@Liam: I have news for you mate. The Premiere League is no longer the league where you can lose 6 or 7 games a season and still end up champion. Teams like Chelsea and Arseanl have gone through seasons either undefeated or having lost jus once or twice. There is no room for error in this league and a draw is so much more valuable then it ever was. Those single points add up at the end of the campaign and United frankly don’t get enough of them when they are in a position to lose. Chelsea does. They will settle for a draw but they just don’t lose. I think we do have a Hell of a mountain to climb and I’m not sure the lads have the hunger and proper fitness and spirit to do it this year. It’s just looks like it’s one of those years and nothing has changed my mind on that. If we play 10 games we win 8 and loser 2. Chlesea play 10 games win 7 and tie 3 but don’t lose a game. That is what we face. Both teams get the same points over ten games but most importantly, we make up no ground. We literally have to go 10-0 in order to make ground in this league over the next ten games. We cannot afford to drop more than 8 to 9 more points all season. As long as Liverpool are pushing Chelsea, the Blues will be motivated. I’m sorry but I don’t see it. Not with our propensity to throw away games that should be ours for the taking.
November 19th, 2008 at 23:40
@ROOOONEY: You are not the only one who thought that. The fact that he was a loan was another key reason. Bottom line is the team never knew the player’s real value and wanted to have him play for us before they knew what he was worth. He played himself into a healthy contract last season but his purchase value is way over what he is worth. Despite what United are saying I think they don’t want to pay the asking price and they are waiting to see if he can earn that kind of price. Not playing him or giving him an opportunity to make his statement sure isn’t helping his cause now is it? Based on his play this year, I wouldn’t pay out a bag of hammers to get him.
November 19th, 2008 at 23:56
I would like to see welback/fraizer into the team next year if tevez transfers , and so far it doesnt look good for tevez
November 20th, 2008 at 0:09
@Grognard:
Are you calling out the Argentinean pitbull? 
Well, this is Tevez’s chance and I hope he doesn’t screw it up, keep my fingers crossed 
These feckin friendlies, now Wenger has an excuse for whenever his team plays shit in the comin weeks 
Btw. is it wrong that I celebrated when John Terry scored the winner for England?
‘My mind was tellin me No, but my body was tellin me Yes’ ( a nickel for anyone who guesses correctly what song that line was taken from 
)
November 20th, 2008 at 0:19
@Gabriel: Just look at it this way, John Terry is not English. He’s just a cunt. And seriously, how can anybody cheer for a team captained by a cunt? It’s not a coincidence that the name Terry sounds eerily similar to terrible and terrifying. He is the Antichrist, and I for one cannot cheer for an England team that not only plays him, but has him as captain. He is everything I hate about football and the single biggest reason why I feel Stamford Bridge should be demolished with all their players and supporters inside……except for Michael Ballack. I would want him warned.
November 20th, 2008 at 0:25
@Grognard: True, Diet can help in sports and Im not disputing this. I just know and speaking from expeirence that it is a tad bit overrated. A supremely talented player(Rooney) will always triumph over a less talented hard worker. Until that player comes up against a player with equal or greater talent who also works his ass off(Ronaldo). My point is that eating right and taking care of your body is obviously positive, but it isnt worth much without talent. You would be suprised at how some of the best athletes do horrible things to there body, yet still dominate.
November 20th, 2008 at 0:29
@Red Ranter: “Because, perhaps, having a superior diet is not the main deciding factor between making the cut and not making it?”
That was my point.
November 20th, 2008 at 0:44
@Beachryan: How can you say Manucho didnt do anything in the ACN? Of all the examples you could use to doubt his ablity, you picked the worst one. He scored “the goal of the tournament”. and was named in the best XI ahead of golden boot winner Eto.
Does this prove he is United quality? No, but it is the one concrete thing we have seen to suggest he has some ability.
November 20th, 2008 at 0:51
@Grognard: I thought we signed Tevez to a loan deal, because his registration was dodgy. So too avoid what West Ham is going thru right now they chose the loan so they could sort out the details.
November 20th, 2008 at 1:42
kaka and robinho are owning ronaldo
i almost feel bad
November 20th, 2008 at 2:16
@ROOOONEY:
Yeah Kaka heaped praise on Ronny before taking apart Portugal in that first half!
Brazil 2-1 Portual fabiano(2), Danny
http://www.fcfootballblog.com/2008/11/19/brazil-vs-portugal-live-online/
great game good to see Pele greeting all the players beforehand, Ronaldo and Anderson are playing so I guess we can rule them out of the Villa game.
November 20th, 2008 at 2:20
@johnsom33: True. Just ask one Diego Armando Maradona.
November 20th, 2008 at 2:21
@johnsom33: Perhaps but I also think that excuse was awfully convenient, don’t you?
November 20th, 2008 at 2:26
4-1 how naff is the Portuguese keeper!!
Queiroz come back now this is a shambles! Fabiano hatrick.
November 20th, 2008 at 2:32
5-2 What a game! no defenders playing in it but still.
Anyone have the feeling the Villa game may be the true test of ar season? I cant even imagine are line-up.
November 20th, 2008 at 3:11
Brazil thumped Portugal 6-2 in the end> Fabiano hatrick Maicon, Elano, and Adriano. Danny and Simao for the Portuguese.
Anderson played very well although he was overshadowed by Brazils more offensive players. Played about 70mins 8/10
Ronaldo played aweful he can’t be fully blamed but his frustration ruined his performance. Played the whole game 4/10 but Pepe would have got 1/10 so 4 ain’t to bad considering.
Nani played in the second half…………….much like the above tried to hard and frustrated himself to be fair coming on when 4-2 down he was never gonna change this game. 4/10
Carlos Quieroz will be in the shit tonight although Portugal knocked the ball around alright at times. Pepe and Ricardo are laughable!
November 20th, 2008 at 4:50
@Grognard: You are prolly right, United saw it as a win-win situation.
November 20th, 2008 at 7:56
Portugal is just imploding and they are not going to wait much longer before Queiroz gets the boot. This poor form also does lend itself well to him getting the United job after Fergie retires. After all, he isn’t getting the best out of Ronaldo or Nani at the national level. Patients some might say, BAH! There is no patience in international football. You only have so many games to prove yourself as a national team manager. It’s not looking very good for CQ and him getting fired does not mean Fergie will sack Phelan in order to hire him back. Although that is exactly what he should do.
November 20th, 2008 at 8:23
Dammit berba injured. Please Carlitos, respond to the challenge / responsibility man!
CQ: yeah I’m torn, on 1 hand with United he’s incredible, but to to take him back now?? Confused.
November 20th, 2008 at 8:27
@Grognard:
You said: “Great so now all the Tevez fudge packers will get a chance to see Tevez start once again with Rooney and will finally realize that Tevez is truly not as good nor as valuable as they seem to think. Let him prove me wrong”
He doesn’t have to.
Tevez -> 36 PL appearances = 15 Goals
Berbs -> 10 PL appearances = 2 Goals
(Tevez 1st 10 PL appearances = 4 Goals)
In my books he has nothing to prove. ShevaII has.
November 20th, 2008 at 8:30
In my post above, I meant “starts”, not appearances.
November 20th, 2008 at 9:24
Villa will be a different kettle of fish this week-end. Four of their players are now England stars and MON is building a very useful side very quickly. Although we are the better side, I think they will beat us at Villa park.
November 20th, 2008 at 9:43
@Karl: There is an old saying mate, and it goes like this, “What have you done for us lately?”
November 20th, 2008 at 9:56
@Grognard:
I don’t have a comeback for that. But, you’d better pray that Tevez does not score on Sunday.
November 20th, 2008 at 10:10
We’re well and truly in trouble for Saturday. Villa have a more or less completely healthy team (I think Carew is back?) Agbonlahor has looked in great form, he and young both came off unscathed in the Germany game, though barry did run a lot.
We on the other hand, are screwed. Berba definitely injured, Rooney and Rio a doubt, Wes, Gary and Scholes defo out. I think Tevez will have trouble, I know he played the whole game against Scotland but he took a massive blow to his ankle right before half time, and i bet you it’s blown up this morning. Ronaldo and Nani are going to be grumpy and jet lagged. Anderson should be alright, he seems to have energy to burn. Fletcher is out. Carrick played the full 90 (though, despite running the match, never seemed to leave the centre circle, so he really can’t be too tired!). Park played the full 90 in the middle east, Evra finally got the full 90 for France, Vida full 90 for Serbia, Evans for NI.
So team for Saturday?
————evds———–
–rafael-Evans-Vidic-Evra–
—–Carrick-Anderson——
———–Giggs———–
–Ronaldo———-Nani—-
———–Tevez———–
I just can’t see that team overcoming a full strength villa side, playing at Villa Park.
November 20th, 2008 at 10:25
@Beachryan: Why? we are champions and can beat anyone in Europe, if we play well, Rio will be fit I am sure of that.
November 20th, 2008 at 10:33
I hate to see players injured,but, the fact you have so many out will give us a great opportunity to finally beat you after 13yrs of trying. I still hope you go on and beat Cheatsea to the title. There is alot at stake for both teams so I hope it doesn’t turn into a nervy affair, as I think this fixture has the potential of being a cracker. Good luck!
November 20th, 2008 at 10:42
@Grognard: I think CQ should never darken our door again, he has left us twice and that to me is treason!!
November 20th, 2008 at 11:12
@ Stephen – being champions of europe doesn’t mean the other team surrenders during lineups
I just worry that our team won’t carry enough to beat a full strength villa side. I see another Everton-esque slipup coming. Just my opinion of course.
I’d take CQ back if it meant keeping Nani, Ronaldo, Anderson, Tevez, Possebon, Twins all happy and playing well. Oh and us playing well
In a heartbeat. He went and tried to manage 1. the biggest team in (his) world and 2. his national team. As a deputy, both of those are massive step ups, and he’d be unambitious to pass up the opportunity. He failed at both, so please come back and be our number two again. A few weeks back I posted that I think the reason we didn’t get a ‘real’ number 2 was cause we expected Carlos back before the end of the year…
November 20th, 2008 at 11:16
no to CQ,,and rooney will be okay for the weekend,,we sure gonna get some results from villa park..
November 20th, 2008 at 11:16
id do anything to have CQ back at the club. we need him. honestly all i wanna see is rooney and tevez playin upfront together! why the fuck has the partnerhip that won us THE DOUBLE been completely abandoned!??!
November 20th, 2008 at 11:30
@Beachryan: The players you memtioned should stay regardless of who is ass manager, we are the BIGGEST club in Europe and champions of Europe, if they won’t stay because they havn’t got their preffered choice as number two then, well…..
I can’t rember him saying Real were his number one club either.
Our record against Villa is good, lets hope it continues!!!
November 20th, 2008 at 11:52
@Beachryan: both Rooney and Rio will start you’ll see! It was just Fergie being … er Fergie and saving them from international duty! He was being smarter than Benitez there
Tevez should also start given that Berba is supposedly injured (and also Tevez was Argentina’s MOTM against Scotland).
November 20th, 2008 at 12:07
What happens if Roovez works a charm?
November 20th, 2008 at 12:09
@Beachryan: Possession is nine thenths of the law!
November 20th, 2008 at 12:42
I dont enjoy international frendlies especially when they come in the middle of the Premier league fixtures. thanks to this friendlies we have now lost berba to injury and as for Ronaldo, well i do feel sorry for portugese. You should read comments on other sites to see how the beloved critics have branded him(Messi>Ronaldo, Ronaldo doesnt show up in big games etc). I wouldnt dwell much on it though.
So we get down to business at the weekend. Its Villa park or as they say the second home to Manchester United. It wont be an easy ride and the international fixtures have added mo woes to the trip to villa park. Berba is injured, Ronaldo and Nani will be suffering from fatigue, jet lag and possibly deflated moral. Rooney is still recovering from that chest infection and I havent heard any news on Fletcher, Rio and Brown. on a positive note Tevez Carrick Oshea and company covered less distance than the less fortunate portugese and had no injuries. We all know what Anderson’s mindset will be. taking all this into consideration my Line up for saturday would be
EDVS
Sheasy Vida Evans Evra
Park Anderson Carrick Giggs
Manucho Tevez
I have put Park and Giggs there because i think the gaffer will want to start Ronaldo and Nani from the bench. Anderson will start as he proved to overcome jet lag after a long trip from China. I think we will need the presence of someone like manucho(assuming Rooney will also start from the bench) to trouble villa’s defence. I was impressed will the positions he picjed up during the game at stoke and on another day, possibly saturday he will bang the ball into the back of the net as he did against Eygpt in ACN(just fantasizing). Another thing i hope for during the game is to see the introduction of Possebon, been a long time since i have seen him in a competitive match.Finally Queiroz-Fegie& Man u= Portugese failure. If he does get the sack I dont think he will be rushing back to Manchester although I would welcome him with Oooooopeeeen arms he decides to come back
November 20th, 2008 at 12:48
@Nelson: Rooney will start I would put my house on it!
November 20th, 2008 at 12:49
And in ligt of my comments above i want the bench to look like
PIG
Rooney
Nani
Ronaldo
Possebon
Wellbeck
Gibson
November 20th, 2008 at 12:55
@Stephen I do hope so. The line up i put up there was on only on the assumption that injuries and fatigue will force Fergie to start the people above from the bench.
Another thing, would some one please explain to me why Saha is seemingly more fit at everton than he was in the past season
November 20th, 2008 at 12:59
@Stephen and if rooney doesnt start then prepare for a visit from my ‘auctioneers
November 20th, 2008 at 13:01
@Nelson: I am not sure about throwing Manucho in if Wazza is not fit.
Fuck knows what happened to Mr Glass probably a pay as you play deal!
November 20th, 2008 at 13:11
According to reports Berba’s ready to quit. I know you have probably read it. I dont know if I should support his retirement from international football but i think its very unfair to criticize him for the Poor performance Bulgaria have put up and Tottenham’s slump. People forget that a team is consisted of 11 and not one player. its all about attitude. Look at spurs now. Ronaldo’s situation is a bit similar. Yes he was a nuisance during the transfer period but undoubtebly he was the best player last season and the Ballon D’ or( i hope its spelt that way) is given to the best player of a previous season and not based on current form. The way am seeing it , Messi might end up running away with the award. I dont question his talents but based on last season we all know who was on top
November 20th, 2008 at 13:18
@Nelson: You should support it and anyone else who wants to join him, but not you Wayne, Wes, Micheal or er Gary!
November 20th, 2008 at 13:19
@Stephen The boss might suprise us. With Rooney not fit and Berba out, we are only left with Tevez up front. I dont think the gaffer will employ a 4-5-1 formation with tevez leading(thats on paper coz he surely gonna drop deep into midfield). So I say Play him there if Rooney wont be able to start the game. I assume he’s much fitter than Mr Glass and as I said the cameo he did against stoke impressed me(except for the first touch) and the position he picked up (also reffer to the African Cup)might well lead to him scoring a brace. The only thing i do pray though is that fergie should not attempt to start giggs and tevez up front. total disaster
November 20th, 2008 at 13:24
@Nelson: You and I both know if Rooney is not fit, it will be Giggsy and Carlos thru the middle!
November 20th, 2008 at 13:36
@Stephen. With that then I dont thnk we have a chance up front especially looking at our performances in the final third this season
November 20th, 2008 at 13:47
@Nelson: It wouldn’t bode well I must say, I do though think we must keep the faith still, we are not playing great but we are a great side with a great manager and we will get stronger and stronger this season. I see the next four games as crucial, we must get our form up and running and away to Villa is a good time to start. People read too much into having a reconised number two, does it fuck, Fergie is the manager and makes the decisions and if people really believe players will leave or are more lokely to stay becuase CQ comes back then they should believe more in the power and lure of playing at OT.
I am lucky enough to regularly, and that place is really amazing, a real joy to go to, especially on European nights under the lights, it is really a theatre of dreams. The players and Assistants know that and if they don’t well then they have no place there, I love my club and yes I am as bad as most people, have a go at Fergie, Phelan is shit, substitutions are wrong, but I will always support my club because I love it!
November 20th, 2008 at 13:55
Do you think MON will be your next manager, especially when he’s likely to mastermind a victory against you?
November 20th, 2008 at 14:23
Why all the self-doubt boys?? We have the squad depth to handle whatever the season throws at us (be it useless friendlies or a totally unfair, unbalanced timetable
). We have begun putting the ball in the back of the net and keeping clean sheets, which were our main problems. All the players who played last weekend but ’sustained’ little short term ‘injuries’ will be available for Saturday, watch and see.
The midfield is looking solid; Carrick, Ando, Possebon, Gibson, Fletch, Giggs; those are the options we have for this saturday!! Defence is also looking great, everyone is fit. On the wings and upfront is where it might be tricky. I reckon Nani and Park start then Ronnie comes on for Park. Ronaldo has been playing consecutive full games for the past couple of weeks and he needs to rest a bit. Besides, Nani came on as a sub for Portugal and although Park played a full 90, he can use those legs of his in the beginning of the match, where it counts.
As per the strikers, I’m not so sure about Rooney yet, he had a chest infection that would have prevented him from doing any cardio-vascular training at least some days till the infection had cleared. hopefully, he’s fine, if not Tevez and either Manucho/Wellbeck can get a stab at some more quality first team football.
November 20th, 2008 at 14:43
4-2-3-1! its the future!
normal back four, carrick and fletcher sitting in the middle… rooney (or giggs/nani if he isn’t fit) tevez and ronaldo..then berba up front… or if he’s injured give manucho a go.