Nov 25
Man Utd v Besiktas: Preview
Sorry about the delayed preview post. Here goes…
United play Besiktas at Old Trafford, having already qualified for the Champions League round of 16 — unlike some other sides who couldn’t even qualify. It’s now a question of us winning the group.
Dimitar Berbatov could make a return to the starting XI that will likely field an experimental line-up. Rio, Evans and O’Shea, however, are out.
In the press conference, Ferguson spoke, among other things, about EVDS and his replacement. He said the politically correct thing to say (which is to give backing to his deputy ‘keepers.) “Ben has terrific ability and needs game experience. Tomasz is also another good keeper. At the end of the day the two of them will fight it out, I’m sure of that.”
There are reports that Obertan might get his first European start for us, and a strong possibility that Gibson might start today, as well.
In the meantime, reports are awash with news of Vidic’s possible departure come the summer, thanks to some equivocal quotes from the Serb. We’ll probably discuss that sometime later; suffice to say, to his credit, he’s at least said he plans to stay on for 2-1/2 years of his contract (although I call BS on that.)
The manager has also bigged up some of the youngsters in the side, particularly Darron Gibson:
“We could have a non-event game if we wanted to,” he said. “But that is not the way we want it to be. We want an exciting game and we will do our best to challenge the young players who do play.
“Sometimes you cannot hold a young man back and that time is approaching for Darron now because he is becoming a good, powerful midfield player. He is not playing the amount of football he would wish for but he has never let it get to him in terms of being unsettled. His performances in training are excellent and he comes in each day knowing it is going to be worthwhile. There is always an issue about whether it makes a difference between finishing first or second in the group, especially when you look at some of the groups, but we will be trying to be number one.”
The starting XI can be anyone’s guess. My prediction: Foster; Rafael, Brown, Vidic, Evra; Obertan, Anderson, Gibson, Nani; Macheda, Welbeck. Not that I think it’s the best possible lineup, but I’m just throwing it out there. Feel free to throw up some of your own.
Well, this post was hurriedly cobbled up, so I’m ending it with the prediction right away: 1-0 to United.
Related items from Red Rants:- Man Utd v Stoke: Preview
- Man Utd v Everton: Preview
- Man Utd v Spurs match thread
- Rooney Out For A Month
- Porto it is then…
Tags: Game Preview
November 25th, 2009 at 19:23
If you can’t watch United game on tv you can try Manchester United vs. Besiktas – live streams.
November 25th, 2009 at 19:38
Goin to OT for this one! Hoping for a good Performance from the lads today!
November 25th, 2009 at 19:52
Ben Foster (G)
15 Nemanja Vidic (CD-L)
6 Wes Brown (CD-R)
21 Rafael (LB)
2 Gary Neville (RB)
8 Anderson (CM-L)
28 Darron Gibson (CM-R)
26 Gabriel Obertan (LM)
13 Ji-Sung Park (RM)
19 Danny Welbeck (CF-L)
27 Federico Macheda (CF-R)
November 25th, 2009 at 19:53
poo nani
November 25th, 2009 at 19:54
7 Michael Owen (SUB)
16 Michael Carrick (SUB)
18 Paul Scholes (SUB)
24 Darren Fletcher (SUB)
29 Tomasz Kuszczak (SUB)
3 Patrice Evra (SUB)
17 Nani (SU
November 25th, 2009 at 19:59
We must sign Krasic!
Thats a good squad, nice to see macheda and obertan starting.
And please foster dont fuck up
November 25th, 2009 at 20:05
@gator: say whaaaa?!! Is Berba’s injury more serious than reported? Why not on bench?! and why is Nani not starting? Apart from those, pretty good line-up
Welbeck and Macheda upfront will be dynamite!!! Especially with the energetic duo of Gibbo and Ando supplying them… can’t wait for this one!! 
bring on the turks!! 
November 25th, 2009 at 20:13
Loving tonights side. Shame Fabio is injured because I wouldn’t have been surprised to see both of the twins playing at the back if he was fit.
Don’t think we’ll see the 8-1 walk over that Lolerpool got a few years back but if these youngsters hit their stride with an early goal and Anderson has one of those games we all cream over, then this could be a nice 3 or 4 nil victory. fingers crossed
November 25th, 2009 at 20:21
Okey, this is what happend.
I was hanging out with my mates taking the subway. When we got to our stop, we got off and were walking towards the exit. In the hall there was this guy wearing a Liverpool had, he looked depressed. Never met him before, but I thought “Fuck it, this is my shot!” With my left hand I showed him one finger, with my right I made a zero(O). Then I smiled at him and showed him my United ring. Next, walk towards the exit door a little faster than I was supposed to and have a big grin on your face!
November 25th, 2009 at 20:23
@Footy4Eddy: You have a United ring?
November 25th, 2009 at 20:24
Poor, poor Nani…
November 25th, 2009 at 20:25
@Red Ranter: Yeah, I wear it every day. Im married to them, relationship for life you know.
November 25th, 2009 at 20:29
god why is neville there…
…..it seems goodbye nani is evident
November 25th, 2009 at 20:34
Nani might be on the bench as he’s deemed part of the senior players…
In the same way Fletcher and Carrick are.
Maybe.
November 25th, 2009 at 20:35
@RMJ: I think it’s to give evra a rest… he’s played three full matches in like two weeks.. O’shea, fabio and De Leat aren’t available….
November 25th, 2009 at 20:42
@Gabriel: yea i duno bout berba? but excited to see the youngsters get a run out at ot and see how they fair. esp obertan for more than 15min cameo will be nice. but im most interested in seeing macheda do well and become the answer to our prayers. c’mon kikooooooooooo
November 25th, 2009 at 20:42
@NicoQB: Doubt it my mainyman, think he is now rated amongst the Tosic`s of this world….
November 25th, 2009 at 20:44
well cska did their part all thats left is the kids to handle besiktas and we are top dogs in Europe.
November 25th, 2009 at 20:45
@Footy4Eddy: how i wish tosic would start ahead of park..but i think we need park to keep a check on rafael today and as usual kuzzy gets no love…
November 25th, 2009 at 20:46
I’m excited to see what the kids* can do.
* Excluding defence, at 34,30,27 and about 12
November 25th, 2009 at 20:49
I’m hoping to be proven wrong, but with Park and Rafael on the left tonight I doubt there will be much attacking threat coming from United’s left.
November 25th, 2009 at 20:52
442 so far obertans early low cross was nice macheda missed it c,mon boy
November 25th, 2009 at 20:52
I don’t think it’s been mentioned here btw, but it’s 4 years today since George Best died. Let’s hope we put on a good attacking show in his honour.
November 25th, 2009 at 20:57
@Traverse: rip besteva
November 25th, 2009 at 20:58
park just shat on someone
November 25th, 2009 at 21:06
wow kiko
November 25th, 2009 at 21:06
That was shit!
November 25th, 2009 at 21:07
November 25th, 2009 at 21:08
Unlucky Foster. Took a bad deflection. This is kinda good though. It’ll give United’s youth a chance to prove what they’re worth
November 25th, 2009 at 21:08
Not blaming Foster for that one, deflection made it difficult. Not that Im fond of Foster, but he doesnt deserve to be bashed for that. For up for real, and then we can speak.
November 25th, 2009 at 21:08
Bloody hell. No luck there… Rafael didn’t close him down and then when he does, deflects it around Foster! Ah well, lets go get some goals.
November 25th, 2009 at 21:08
Ben Foster should have saved that
November 25th, 2009 at 21:08
40 yard shot
November 25th, 2009 at 21:08
ATTACK! ATTACK! ATTACK!!!
November 25th, 2009 at 21:09
gibsons been winning balls but his passing is dreadful for a midfielder
November 25th, 2009 at 21:09
@Vivek:
November 25th, 2009 at 21:09
The kids are playing quite well…the movement is excellent
November 25th, 2009 at 21:10
I have an idea. Play Park as LB and Rafael at LW and we are a better team…
November 25th, 2009 at 21:11
@Dan:
He should have saved that mate…it actually went under his hands
November 25th, 2009 at 21:11
Chances created, none taken…
Am I the only one getting used to this?
November 25th, 2009 at 21:13
@Vivek: It actually deflected off a player, and went in the other corner that he was going for. For going under his hand, the ball bounced awkwardly, just in front of him. Shouldnt bash him for that, not his fault.
November 25th, 2009 at 21:13
The fuckup fucks up, cant move his fucking feet…ship him out please Fergie fucks sake!
November 25th, 2009 at 21:13
@Footy4Eddy: +1
November 25th, 2009 at 21:14
Obertan has a good football brain. Can’t say the same of Welbeck.
November 25th, 2009 at 21:14
@Vivek: No, it didnt. It went an inch to the side of his hand, because it took a deflection of rafael. Quite simply, if it wasnt for the deflection, he would have saved it.
But i dont really expect much on here to understand something as simple as this, so, its all bens fault.
November 25th, 2009 at 21:15
If Macheda had a left foot and could pass, he would be a monster of a striker. As he is, he seems predictable and makes easy mistakes
November 25th, 2009 at 21:16
@Anders: New flavour of the month then?
November 25th, 2009 at 21:17
@Taehr: Fucking Fuckup Fucked up like only Fucking Fuckup Foster Fucking could do For Fucks sake, Fuck!
Oh, and Fuck Me!
November 25th, 2009 at 21:17
@Footy4Eddy:
oh come on…the besiktas player was going for the far corner …he just mishit it…Foster took too long to move his bloody feet
November 25th, 2009 at 21:17
November 25th, 2009 at 21:18
@Vivek: How good is your stream? Because it was a clear deflection.
November 25th, 2009 at 21:18
would nani have berried that?
November 25th, 2009 at 21:21
@Vivek: What do you consider “slow”? Well, excuse me Foster isnt Usain Bolt, or do you consider him slow as well?
November 25th, 2009 at 21:22
@Footy4Eddy:
If you watch, his feet seem stuck for a split second and that cost him the yard that would have saved the goal
November 25th, 2009 at 21:23
If Gibson could pass like he could shoot he would be the worlds best player.
November 25th, 2009 at 21:24
@Footy4Eddy: He can pass like that, but hes inconsistent.
November 25th, 2009 at 21:24
@Vivek: In slow motion, yes, but in real speed, no. Not his error, deflected goals are incredibly difficult to save.
November 25th, 2009 at 21:25
Look at his fundamentals…how the fuck does he catch the ball waist height from a corner? thats fucking stupid…
November 25th, 2009 at 21:25
Unlucky, Foster haters : http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_5720119,00.html
November 25th, 2009 at 21:26
@Dan: When I mean passing, pace of mind is included, being a good passer doesnt mean just being accurate but also a quick thinker with good vision. Gibson seems slow at picking up other players movement, which is odd because the movement up front has been good.
Passing critisism also includes Park and Macheda, Welbeck as a sharp mind.
November 25th, 2009 at 21:27
@Dan: Not sure what you mean..
November 25th, 2009 at 21:28
@Taehr: B-O-U-N-C-E, watch it at live speed and you will see how hard those are to save. Better yet, try being a keeper saving sucha a shot, I bet you one million quid you wouldnt even get a hand to it.
November 25th, 2009 at 21:29
@Taehr: Are you seriously complaining about him catching a ball?
November 25th, 2009 at 21:29
Why is Anderson playing like a pussy, if he doesnt get it sorted bring him off.
November 25th, 2009 at 21:30
@Taehr: Sorry, what?
November 25th, 2009 at 21:30
@Footy4Eddy:
We are not paid a king’s ransom every week to go out there in front of millions of fans to save goals…Foster is. He should be judged in comparison to his peers..you really think VDS or Casillas or Buffon or Akinfeev or would not have saved that?
November 25th, 2009 at 21:31
@Footy4Eddy: Hes complaining about a keeper catching the ball.
November 25th, 2009 at 21:31
@Footy4Eddy: have to agree something is off withthe boy
November 25th, 2009 at 21:33
Take that as an example, Rafael on a brilliant run down the left, Gibson should have spotted him. Would have been clean through down the left, if Gibson would just have raised his head a little.
November 25th, 2009 at 21:33
@Vivek: Stop talking about the goal until you clearly see it on tv. You stream is obviously not clear, so it may have looked to you. But we have seen it clearly, and it took a clear deflection.
November 25th, 2009 at 21:34
@Footy4Eddy: But he played a better ball to neville on the right side though…
November 25th, 2009 at 21:36
@Dan:
What if there was a deflection? It still wasnt in the corner? U think all deflected shots are sure-shot goals???
November 25th, 2009 at 21:36
@Vivek: I doubt PETER SCHMEICEL would have saved that, if you watch games from United when he played you will see that much of the goals he conseded were of this type. Why? Because brilliant keepers are quick minded, and usually saves those great shots which seem “unsavable”. They read the shot, and move quick. A deflection fucks that up, which is why they are hard to shot. See?
November 25th, 2009 at 21:36
@Vivek: That was a clear deflection mate. Unfair to castigate Foster on that.
November 25th, 2009 at 21:38
Exhilarating first half.. lucky goal by besiktas; although The player shuld have been closed down. The play is wonderful and I pray Fergie leaves it be in the second.. this team can overturn the deficit.. show some faith Ferg!!
November 25th, 2009 at 21:38
@Vivek: Mate, a deflection fucks up a keeper’s positioning. Criticise Foster all you like, but it’s unfair to criticise any keeper for failing to stop that.
November 25th, 2009 at 21:39
A pretty decent half from the reserves…apart from the goal, we have been pretty good. The movement was quite good, atleast in the first 25 minutes. Kiko needs to learn to pass, and Danny needs to grow a brain…other than that, Gibson has been pretty good, although a bit selfish. Anderson is off – he’s nowhere near aggressive enough .Obertan is a bright spot, still needs a lot of work on his finishing though
November 25th, 2009 at 21:40
@Red Ranter:
fair enough..my stream wasnt all that great and all I saw is Foster rather stumbling before he dove….
November 25th, 2009 at 21:43
@Dan: Safer, not better. The difference between a good player and a great player is taking risks, and actually managing to pull them off. Take Xavis assist for Messi in the CL final, could easily have passed to Puyol on the right, but decided to go for Messi because that could have been a goal. He pulled it off, and scored the decider. Being able to keep a balance between risky and safe passes is what great players do. Anderson decides to make the risky most of the time, Gibson the safe. Had they combined it, that would have been one hell of a player! Not many players manage to keep the perfect balance, but those who do are the best midfielders. Gourcuff, Xavi, Iniesta, Silva, Diego, Gerrard, Alonso and Riquelme are some of those able to do that. Players like Carrick, Scholes and Fletcher are too safe in their passing, but they have proven that they can pull off the best passes when they want. Thats why they are United players, Gibson doesnt seem to be able to do that. His vision and lack of quick thinkning lets him down there…
November 25th, 2009 at 21:46
May be its a general problem at the club that we cant pass to a red shirt.
Foster, say what you want but maybe he doesnt have the luck to play at this club.Is it me or is it that whenever he plays there has to be people blaming luck whenever he fucks up?
Nani must be laughing at this comedy we call a game.Our wingers are non existent,and Welbeck?will he ever mature? i know kids his age who are hard as nails.
November 25th, 2009 at 21:46
on another note, Nani not starting even in this game surely means he’s gone….
November 25th, 2009 at 21:48
I really hope Anderson drank some coffee at half time, he was asleep in the first half. This coming from me, the guy who has only slept 8 hours of the last 48.
November 25th, 2009 at 21:49
@Footy4Eddy: It was a better pass though… it was a simple through for anderson, and a cross field pass for neville…
November 25th, 2009 at 21:49
@donibrasco: I blame Rooney for the goal we conceded.
November 25th, 2009 at 21:51
@Dan: I aint saying he did something wrong, I just used that an example of what I meant by not passing as well as shooting. I like Gibbo mate, he is a good player.
November 25th, 2009 at 21:53
Whats up with Andy, he is running less than a drunk Adriano
November 25th, 2009 at 21:57
Disappointing. If this is supposed to be the cream of our youth team I am not hopeful about the future. I really do not understand the fuss about Welbeck and Macheda. I really do not see them turning into world class players. They are both woeful.
Neither Anderson or Gibson has the maturity to boss the midfield and have terrible judgement when it comes to picking out a pass and Obertan still looks very raw and his crossing is poor.
I want to finish top of this group so I am hoping Fergie throws Owen on and a central midfield either Scholes or Carrick
November 25th, 2009 at 21:58
Rule number one as a defending player. NEVER!!! tackle against your own goal…
November 25th, 2009 at 21:59
Gibson doing his very own Scholes impression.
November 25th, 2009 at 21:59
gibson’s loosing his cool
November 25th, 2009 at 22:00
@colver: I think we are playing well mate, unlucky to be behind.
And even though Macheda may not impress you, Welbeck certanly has done well.
November 25th, 2009 at 22:02
@Vivek: He did mate it should have saved it your stream is fine
November 25th, 2009 at 22:03
I’m going to shutup for a change and say nothing. Now back to the game. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.
Wake me when it’s over.
November 25th, 2009 at 22:03
I think Nani and Owen for Park and Welbeck.
November 25th, 2009 at 22:04
Welbecks first touch makes foster look like berbatov
November 25th, 2009 at 22:06
Good play Obertan. I can safely say that he his miles ahead of nani great run.
November 25th, 2009 at 22:07
@Taehr: Hes been our best player today!
November 25th, 2009 at 22:09
Kinda ironic if United were to lose this, how come we always fuck up when I am happy?
Getting annoying to be honest…
November 25th, 2009 at 22:10
its like every move breaks after welbeck touches it
..sigh another one
November 25th, 2009 at 22:11
@RMJ: More like anderson actually.
November 25th, 2009 at 22:12
WHAT IS NEVILLE DOING TAKING CORNERS?!!?!?!?!
November 25th, 2009 at 22:12
@Dan: Agreed, Welbeck has been good.
November 25th, 2009 at 22:13
they are playing desperate and we are playing like we dont care
November 25th, 2009 at 22:13
What the hell was anderson doing there? He just ran into defenders!
November 25th, 2009 at 22:14
Come on Gibbo, Come on Gibbo, Come on Gibbo
Fuck…
November 25th, 2009 at 22:15
knowing fergie, he’ll bring on carrick for gibson, even though hes played far better then anderson tonight.
November 25th, 2009 at 22:16
Hope Ando goes off for Carrick, he has done fuck all today! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
And Nani cant even get a game when we are 1-0 behind, Evra is chosen as the offensive force.
November 25th, 2009 at 22:17
fuck these dirty twats wasting time
November 25th, 2009 at 22:17
Looks like we are going to get 15 minutes time added on! How long do the Turks want to stay down for after every tackle?
November 25th, 2009 at 22:17
I can read fergie like a book
November 25th, 2009 at 22:17
When I critisice Ando, you know he has done bad.
November 25th, 2009 at 22:18
@Dan: I didnt know you read books.
November 25th, 2009 at 22:22
ATTACK BITCHES
November 25th, 2009 at 22:24
should have seen a card there tbh
November 25th, 2009 at 22:28
@Anders: Yep Gibson isnt good enough. Just average with a good strike but everything else is slow including his thinking.
November 25th, 2009 at 22:30
How the fuck was that not a penalty? Unbelievable.
November 25th, 2009 at 22:30
@Taehr: He was better then anderson
Are you on a wum by any chance?
November 25th, 2009 at 22:31
What in Gods name do we have to do to get a penalty?!
Do the oppostion have to shoot us with an RPG two yards away from the ref or….
November 25th, 2009 at 22:35
@Taehr: Looks like a defeat, and I can’t even bother to care. Just pity the poor souls who have paid good money to watch this trite.
November 25th, 2009 at 22:35
5 minutes?!
3 mins for subs+5 minutes for timewasting=8 minutes. Fuck you ref.
November 25th, 2009 at 22:37
My fucking God what a save!!!!
November 25th, 2009 at 22:37
Foster to score!
November 25th, 2009 at 22:38
how the fek is this keeper doing this
November 25th, 2009 at 22:39
fucking turks are a diving bunch huh
November 25th, 2009 at 22:41
We got about 3 of those 5 mins, and it should have been 8. An irritating night where if we’d have scored early any result was possible. We came up against a well organised defence, and a goalkeeper whose lucky night it was.
November 25th, 2009 at 22:42
Fuck US! I seriously don’t know what you guys think. This was shit served up to us.
And newsflash to you all. There goes our European Record and with it I am afraid to mention the fear we instilled on teams when they came to OT.
Besiktas…. Hahahah what a Feckin joke.
November 25th, 2009 at 22:44
What a fucking irritation, we haven’t got a clue how to put the ball in the net. 2nd half WOEFUL, Macheda and Welbeck not a clue. Fergie you got what you deserved – fuck all. Take it an I hope the smarting hurts. All the UNited fans who payed good money to see this team perform only in the first half hour and no end product, and last 10 minutes – I feel so sorry for them.
November 25th, 2009 at 22:45
@Dan: anderson pulled a disappearing act but gibson was just dreadful in the 2nd half mate, but i just cant figure all the welbeck love..he hassled for the ball in the first half but thats it..his touch and positioning is dreadfull…rafael needs more muscle..good to see obertan getting past his man but needs to work on his final ball
November 25th, 2009 at 22:45
an irrelevant game but still leaves a bad taste in your mouth. The goal changed it and we lacked the ability to break their defence. Obertan the best of a bad night.
November 25th, 2009 at 22:46
I am speechless. I also don’t care any more. This is not the Manchester United I have followed for 34 years. Just disgusted.
November 25th, 2009 at 22:49
@Dan: Well I didnt say he wasnt did I. All i was saying is that he looks shite, I dont see anything there maybe hel turn out like fletch who knows but can you tell me he did anything good tonight? No, the same with anderson apart from his run and cross at the end he didnt do anything else
November 25th, 2009 at 22:50
@Grognard: It was the reserves
November 25th, 2009 at 22:52
@frankie: Agreed Obertan even though he couldnt always put in a ball was great, he is gonna be a star
November 25th, 2009 at 22:53
Welbeck and Macheda are missing the mark by FAR in my opinion. None of the young players did anything tonight to say that they are worthy of the red shirt! Obertan perhaps who worked his arse off, but is more than bit raw. I certainly don’t understand SAF, blood 2 or 3 young players, but as many as he did, well like I said I am GLAD that Fergie also was taught a lesson tonight! Who else is sick of us only geeing up speed and effort in the last 10 minutes of a game – I sure as heck am
Our strikers 1st and 2nd team are nothing but a worrying concern and too inept for my liking. I feel very sad about our strikeforce!
November 25th, 2009 at 22:54
Told you!
Lesson learned, never get with a girl when United play. 
Fuck, never imagined I was gonna be afraid to be happy.. 
November 25th, 2009 at 22:54
Utterly frustrating game.
I was very disappointed with
1) Welbeck – the work in the gym looked to have paid off, he nows looks stronger, but unfortunately he’s been very selfish and was always looking to force a shot. Contrast with Macheda, who only shot when he thought he had a good chance and instead passed the ball when needed.
2) Gibson / Anderson – a mixed bag, neither took hold of the midfield or created enough from midfield. From 45:00 to 75: we created nought out of the second half.
3) Obertan – great will, penetration and skills, is NOT selfish like some of our wingers, but really has to work on his final ball. Good to have him in the squad though.
4) Owen – with each passing game he’s looking more and more pants. The city goal was priceless, but compare his usefulness with that of a Macheda, who’s an equally good finisher but seemingly weighs more on the game than him.
Strange one for Foster, Gary Bailey (ex United goalie) reckons he’s not at fault because of the deflection.
Good to have Park back, but he’s always only gong to be Park.
November 25th, 2009 at 22:54
@Grognard: You’re right… this was the youngsters and reserve players of United. There are too many games for our top players to stay fit all season.
This was a small lost in a larger picture of the season… I agree that losing today was pathetic (especially considering it was Besiktas) and an underperformance BUT i would rather lose this game and win the league and ecl…
Just saying..
November 25th, 2009 at 22:56
Why did we play with the reserves, when we still haven´t won the group?
I am speechless…
November 25th, 2009 at 22:57
@frankie: Same old SAD SAP story Frankie our not being able to break down concentrated defences.
November 25th, 2009 at 23:00
@CraigMc: I agree. I really feel for the supporters who pay their hard earned money to watch a manager fiddle around so much with a lineup that the clubs five worst players are all on at the same time. I was talking about feeling shame the other day. Right now I feel shame and embarrassment for calling myself a Man Utd supporter.
The total ineptitude of our players is frightening. There is nobody on this team with real skill and end product. Finishing and final balls are a pipedream for this team. Fergie is going to say how the Turks were hard to break down. RUBBISH. From what I could see his players were dumb as nails and 1,2’s and one touch plays would have done the job. Macheda and Welbeck are hopeless. Especially Macheda. He hasn’t got a clue about doing the smart thing or having the instinct in front of goal. Nobody on this club can cross a ball if their lives depended on it. Obertan probably gave you and others woody tonight with all his flash but his end product proved to me yet again that all he really is is flash and no substance. We are a lazy club that moves around in 3rd gear and shows no urgency or imagination until they are near injury time. We got what we deserved and Fergie should get what he deserves as well. He should get the sack. I’m tired of the old fart and our boring football and our incredibly dull performances in the CL.
We bitch about Rooney yet all our forwards were mimicking him tonight because the whole collective scared to death of the 18 yard box. That’s not the players, that’s Fergie and bad managing. I’m sick of it. This team needs a new culture about it. It needs a rejuvenation and injection of new blood both in players but especially in approach. Thanks for everything Fergie but right now, you are well past it in my mind and you need to retire and let a man with a fresh approach and truly innovative ideas come in and take over. You are too predictable and you have no tactical sense anymore. Same old shite every week, same old dull, players with limited skills and no end product and same old excuses and mind games. Instead lets support the Glazers’s and keep telling the world that we don’t need any more players.
By the way, did everyone see the winning CSKA goal tonight by Krasic. Now that is world class, not the crap we serve up every week. I’m seriously sick and tired of this team and it’s present style and makeup.
November 25th, 2009 at 23:00
@Pedro Vilas-Boas: Because SAF underestimates what he feels are inferior opposition, and OVERESTIMATES HIS own players 1st and 2nd team – simple as mate! This is the team L’POO beat 8-0 last year I believe. Think the scousers will be laughing at our sad lot now!
November 25th, 2009 at 23:03
@Taehr: I don’t care. People pay their money to see a performance in the CL. This wasn’t the fucking League Cup. If our reserves are supposed to be the cat’s meow, then they should be able to take care of the likes of Besiktas. They weren’t up to the task because frankly, they are all overrated shit bags that United have paid a collective mint for and who very very few if any will ever make it. I’d rather we had spent that money on three or four superstars rather than this collection of useless and tiresome to watch muppets.
November 25th, 2009 at 23:03
A burrito would have done more than Anderson out there tonight
Obertan needs to work on his final ball
The reason for Foster not to become our next number 1 may not be because he “is shit”, but because he must be the most unlucky person in the whole world
Brown is a monster
Gibson needs to work on lifting his head, looked abysmal and slow today
Park is shit. ———————— Yeah, he is still shit.
Macheda needs to find his left foot and work on his passing. Lifting your head more would kill you son.
Welbeck has potential to become a great United striker, Im really starting to like that lad.
Owen, without a competent passer, looks useless. Gets into good position with good movement, but doesnt get the service required. Needs a sharp Rooney or Anderson, or a Berbatov.
When Evra is our best attacking sub when we bring on Owen and Carrick, it says a lot.
November 25th, 2009 at 23:04
@Taehr: Nani can pass a much better final ball than Obertan. Its just decision making which lets him down.
November 25th, 2009 at 23:07
@CraigMc: Well said Craig. We are lifeless and comatose until the last 5 minutes and extra time and by that time, it usually is too late. Obertan was good but I have always judged greatness on final product, not the flash before that. Because without a final product, it is all meaningless.
Fergie is becoming a disgusting old codger who doesn’t give a horses ass about the legions of supporters or the OT faithful. PLay 3 or 4 young players but to play ten, that is completely out of line considering you have not nailed down first place in the group and the next game is in Germany. What a mutton head.
November 25th, 2009 at 23:09
@NicoQB: Macheda is not in the same league with Owen when it comes to finishing. You base this on what, one fucking goal he scored last year and another that deflected off him? Get real. Owen is not pants, the rest the team was. He goes out there finds space and nobody finds him.
November 25th, 2009 at 23:10
@Grognard: Was about to mention that Krasic scored tonight too!
What’s the interest with that dickhead Hamsik, when Krasic is clearly the better player.
November 25th, 2009 at 23:10
@NicoQB: That and being very slow when dribbling,btw is that the Gary Bailey on supersport?lol
November 25th, 2009 at 23:12
@Grognard: On the games United have played this season Grog, Man United have become the reversed ROBIN HOOD of football, they fleece the poor hardworking fans and make the Glazers RICH. It is not just the players that have regressed mate, it is the whole playing philosophy of the club, the fine football and Manchester United way of bringing the best football fare to Old Trafford. All that money and travel expense for the United faithful to be fed shite football week after week after week
. It would be a bloody tragedy if this type of football won us anything this year. Yet a good few United fans will suffer anything and defend anything as long as United win – but I hate our playing style and the players who seem ddevoid of the basic technical skills, that Law, Bestie, Charlton, Cantona, Keane, Robson, etc etc etc used to provide with joy week after week after week. So sad!
November 25th, 2009 at 23:14
@[OPTI]Madschester United: Contrary to what many may think, I feel it was a big game for two reasons. We needed to nail down first in the group to ensure an easier draw in the round of 16. Secondly, we needed to continue the momentum and pride of having been unbeaten for 23 straight OT Cl performances. That may sound like nothing but it is and it plays on the minds of your opponents when they come to OT. Now they are all going to be buoyed by the fact a nickel and dime outfit like Besiktas came in and beat us. Shame and embarrassment is in order I think. My feeling is you never take the night off in the CL, no matter what you have clinched. Fergie showed no respect to his opponents tonight and he got burned. He deserved it for being an arrogant old fart.
November 25th, 2009 at 23:14
Weird thing was I actually predicted this… Ask all my friends, they will admit it. I just knew we were gonna lose, but still comes as a shock to me. Oh well, onwards and upwards!
November 25th, 2009 at 23:14
@Pedro Vilas-Boas: Exactly. I’m asking the same thing.
November 25th, 2009 at 23:14
@Grognard: ‘but his end product proved to me yet again that all he really is is flash and no substance’ Remind you of someone in his early days. I wouldnt say he has no substance because he almost scored and he was our most dangerous player by a mile. I thought he had a good game for his first start at Old Trafford, the rest were rubbish though including foster
ps cant end a rant without slating foster
November 25th, 2009 at 23:17
@NicoQB: I agree.
November 25th, 2009 at 23:17
Karma
November 25th, 2009 at 23:18
@Grognard: “What a mutton head.”
That’s had me in fits. (I had a mental image of a mutton in the place of Fergie’s head)
November 25th, 2009 at 23:18
If all the teams (United, Wolfsburg and CSKA) end up with 10 points,which ones pass through second phase? Why are we already quallified?
This game was big shit! Big mistake by Fergie. He jeoperdized the Champions League, by making us to take the risk of ending up in second… Stupid stuff.
November 25th, 2009 at 23:18
@Grognard: I dare to say this Grog, if we play are full first team in Germany we will get bloody walloped, because the Germans have PRIDE if nothing else and they will want that FIRST place. The Germans are not good at being runners up, and will not be so without ptting up a hell of a fucking fight. Something we USED to do for the whole game, not the last 10 minutes or less. Even the tv commentators were saying the words – last few minutes this is usually WHERE UNITED COME ALIVE. It those type of statements don’t tell our fans something, I don’t know what will!
November 25th, 2009 at 23:19
@Grognard: Owen only asset is that of his supposedly good finishing. The moment he loses that, or he does not get service, he loses all usefulness.
Macheda is stronger, a better passer, and more willing to get stuck in from recent form. True he’s not still a great striker, but the fact that his game is more varied plays in his favour. He nearly scored tonight but for Rustu, and his movement and passing was much more clinical than that of either Owen or Welbeck.
And bar, one or two occasions, Owen’s strike rates compared with the clear chances he’s had is not very good.
In any case, I’m pretty sure we jumped the gun concerning Frazier Campbell…
November 25th, 2009 at 23:21
@Red Ranter: Now you gave me the image.
Its like saying, “Don`t think about a pink elephant”. You think about it anyway…
November 25th, 2009 at 23:23
@Taehr: I agree about Nani’s dribbles, in fact he does have quick feet, but by the time he decides upon attacking his opponent he’s being read like an open book. Obertan to his credit has much quicker feet.
Yep, that’s him.
Did you not notice that Bailey always had a soft spot for United?
November 25th, 2009 at 23:26
This feels like putting a goldfish in your ass, and then putting on some tight underwear so it doesnt get a chance to slip out, while also giving your balls no room to breathe.
November 25th, 2009 at 23:27
@CraigMc: Thank you, thank you, thank you. I have been saying this for so long and yet very few ever seem to want to listen to that because they figure Grognard lives in Canada, what the frak does he know? The Glazer’s are at the root of the problem by having turned us into nothing more than a corporate brand who fleeces it’s customers but who starts cutting costs and giving us less and less.
Fergie has lost it mate. The whole culture and atmosphere of the club has changed drastically ever since we won the Champions League. We no longer run and gun, we have no skill players anymore and all our efforts are designed around ball retention and not what is the important thing in the game, scoring goals. We rotate players now more than ever. Question how did the united teams of the early 90’s survive playing so many games with the same starting eleven every night out and a few subs? If Rooney and Ronaldo and Evra and Vidic can play every game without getting a rest, then so can the rest of our starting elven. But here’s the problem. What is our starting eleven. We have a starting 6 and then it’s flip a coin time. That certainly isn’t the culture at Chelsea, or Barca or Inter or Madrid. That only happens in Liverpool. Way to go Fergie. Rather than borrow from a genius like Mourinho or Guardiola, you instead decide to follow Rafa to the rack. BOLLOCKS! We need new blood andnew leadership. I can no longer stomach watching this team.
I was playing Football Manager 10 with United as my team and i stopped after being undefeated simply because i was sick and bloody tired of the same old players. Players I have never ever taken a liking to yet players that I am forced to endure and put up with. I honestly need a break from this team until this team shows that it cares about it’s fans. It’s not about losing, it’s about the culture and attitude that they are presenting. I am starting to hate them.
November 25th, 2009 at 23:27
What a dreadful performance. Rubbish all round. Anderson and Gibson were atrocious,so was the out of position Rafael. Unlike many, I saw some positives from Macheda and even Welbeck(new Tevez i.t.o selfishness). Our best performances came from Park,Obertan and Evra. I’m not sure why Nani was not featured tonight,instead of playing Welbeck on the left. What a confidence breaker by Ferguson.
It’s been a bad night for me. Juve lost to Bordeaux, Real Madrid won and so did Chelsea.This sucks. Oh and Anderson had his first bad game of the season and man was that a stinker.But I’ll take whatever positive we have and the biggest was Obertan. He could do with more games. But all in all I really didn’t expect anything meaningful to come out of the match the minute I saw the line up. We honestly can’t expect a team of players rarely involved in any games this season to play with any level of fluency. Don’t forget that neither Macheda or Welbeck have played for the reserves this season and they surely haven’t featured for the first team. The same goes for Gibson. Rafael was being played on the left and since he is not fleece footed he could not be as effective. And shame on Besiktas for packing their box like that. At each point there would be 11 Besiktas players in front of the goalie,though they did counter attack effectively. But damn, Anderson and Gibson. Absolutely no connection and ill disciplined passing. Sloppy beyond measure.
November 25th, 2009 at 23:29
@Taehr: No it doesn’t. I instantly saw more out of Ronaldo. Yes he had many misses but he also made many great plays and scored goals as well as assisted. What we have with Obertan is no goals and no assists. Nothing. If he delivered just a few balls to others and then they missed, i wouldn’t be down on him, but his end product in garbage. Ronaldo always found others if not finding ways to do it himself. More aggressive and less afraid to boot.
November 25th, 2009 at 23:31
@Red Ranter: I guess it beats a mullet.
November 25th, 2009 at 23:37
@CraigMc: Actually mate Germans are historically famous for being runner ups both in football and in war. I remember more losses in finals by German clubs than wins. Credit to them for getting that far off but they usually lose in the end. 3 World Cup wins 6 losses in either finals or semi finals. Six wins and 7 losses in the European Cup etc etc. They do play hard at home though and Wolfsburg needs this game. United will really have to work to get a point.
November 25th, 2009 at 23:38
@NicoQB: Macheda is crap. Owen’s biggest weakness right now is his finishing because he never gets good enough opportunities. His strength is his running and finding space.
November 25th, 2009 at 23:41
@Jay wire: You are wondering why Nani was not playing. Where have you been for the last couple of weeks mate, Antarctica? Nani has probably played his last game for us due to his comments. Expect him to be shot out of a cannon over the English Channel come January 1st. Where he lands nobody knows
November 25th, 2009 at 23:42
@Grognard: Exactly
November 25th, 2009 at 23:43
@Grognard: My money’s on either Atletico or Villarreal in Spain — they specialise in buying players that failed to make it in bigger clubs. Or if he moves to Italy, Milan or Juve might fancy him.
November 25th, 2009 at 23:45
@NicoQB: Thats because he has played for United. Where do you see Bailey? I’m in South Africa and he is a pundit on Supersport
November 25th, 2009 at 23:46
@Grognard: This is Obertans 2nd full game so i dont think you cant compare with Ronaldo on goals and assists. Ronaldo scored his first goal after many many games. I think with time hel start to score and create.
November 25th, 2009 at 23:47
I watched SAF’s post match interviews tonight, and he was stood there chewing gum during the interview and talking out of the side of his mouth, shrugging his shoulders, and giving the appearance of a nonchalant and ‘Hey I couldn’t give a monkeys’ attitude. Did anybody else see his interviews post game. I am worried, because I never saw anything like this in SAF before. I don’t know what is WRONG, but I just know something sure as fuck his. This is not just post game emotion, I don’t know what is happening to the Man United I totally LOVE. I just know something is. United fans are going to be in for such a rude awakening if the club continues as it is, but with nobody admitting it, and everyone at the club trying to maintain all is well. Somebody tell me please that I am not imagining this, and that they see it too!
November 25th, 2009 at 23:49
@Grognard: Owen has had PLENTY of opportunities, though not in the last few games but he has missed about 6 clear and easy chances this season so far.
@Jay wire: Yea on DSTV! lol.
November 25th, 2009 at 23:50
@Jay wire: Yeah, I know was telling Taehr he’s played for us.
I do watch the games on Supersport but I’m from Mauritius, mate.
November 25th, 2009 at 23:53
@Grognard: Time will tell, but Owen’s strengths will not be of use to us if the midfield continue with this worrying trend of not creating enough for the strikers.
November 25th, 2009 at 23:53
@CraigMc: You sound like one of those Tea Party loonies from America, chill out mate.
November 25th, 2009 at 23:53
Anderson was as useful as a burrito out there tonight
Michael Owen is like a Mexican, good at getting unnoticed behind defences but for no reason because his family stops at the border.
This feels like putting a goldfish in your ass, and then putting on some tight underwear so it doesnt get a chance to slip out, while also giving your balls no room to breathe.
November 25th, 2009 at 23:54
@Grognard: I didn’t think his end product was rubbish. He played in some good balls and the main problem we had was Besiktas playing all 11 players in the box and we only had Macheda,Welbeck and Park in and around the box. I thought he was quite impressive under the circumstances and played some good passes. He was the highlight of this game.
November 25th, 2009 at 23:55
@Footy4Eddy: Beautiful analogy on Owen. lol
November 25th, 2009 at 23:55
@Grognard: Perhaps its just because England always seems to lose to the Germans on penalties then
. But I did say that Germans seldom give up without a bloody good fight. I feel we wimped out in a good few games this season.
You know Grog – I am hoping that TV pull the plug on the United games and start televising others. Because the revenue we get from tv for supposedly dishing up ENTERTAINMENT and great football, but which TV have been defrauded of, because of Fergies team formations, square pegs syndrome, and putting out 2nd team in CL etc that fail to impress. If they lose their TV top billing, and revenue, then MAYBE, just MAYBE the powers that be at United will shit themselves and panic and get wise. You have to hit CORPORATIONS like United where it fucking hurts – in their coffers!
November 25th, 2009 at 23:55
@Jay wire: Made it myself
November 26th, 2009 at 0:03
@CraigMc: Sure did. I can only conclude that this is his final season, and that’s why he’s not bothered. Not bothered about the disjointed football on show, not bothered about spending the Ronaldo-money, and allowing the spent force that is Neville and Scholes to continue playing for us. I think I’m starting to hope this is true, though I’d rather be proven wrong.
November 26th, 2009 at 0:11
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc&feature=related
Replace Britney with Liverpool and you have the lads down at the Liverpool pub
November 26th, 2009 at 0:13
I wanna light this shit up… Remember last time we were embarrased like this, losing to Burnley? Did we guys even talk about that the next day?! No fucking way we werent, instead Craig and Grog got the lulz by listening to my love adventures, I almost got the sack by Big Boss!
Aaah, good times… 
November 26th, 2009 at 0:15
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y91KgyeNRqk
November 26th, 2009 at 0:21
@Footy4Eddy:
November 26th, 2009 at 0:34
@Grognard: I’m with you here. I can’t stand Ferguson’s tactics if we can even dignify them as that. I watch football acroos Europe and am very specific about quality. Over the past two years I have been supporting United as a matter of obligation and I can’t quit United. I don’t know what to do now. I have supported United for a decade and a half and it has always been my first team,and the reason I love football. For almost as long a time, I have also been a Barca and Juventus fan in that order of preference.
Barcelona has always played better than both United and Juventus,but United has always been number 1. Back then we used to play football the way it should be played. My favourite season was the treble season and we played against both Barca and Juventus. Magnificent games, particularly the 3-3 at the Nou Camp and the 3-2 in Turin. Nowadays I have to contend with the dire borefest every weekend and week night. I have never seen more disorganised football in my life. The most moronic tactics and illogical team management. I think I should try and take a break from watching United,because I can’t afford to be continously depressed by their football every week. I mean the whole week I’ll be anticipating the weekend’s game,getting excited only for SAF to play Carrick and Scholes at Anfield. Then you get one game with Rafael as a DM and 12 midfield combinations so far in the season. I’m tired of this.
P.S. Apologies for the long and incoherent rant. I’m just at my wits end
November 26th, 2009 at 1:11
@CraigMc: At least I’m not alone here. We haven’t deserved to win anything for years now and surely it would be wrong to win. Can’t believe we are now becoming the anti-football team in Europe and Chelsea is taking our identity of good football.People may think I’m being melodramatic,but since 2007,what type of football have we represented? Arsenal prior to Wenger were actually known as the most boring unimaginative team. An amazing feat in English football. But things changed and their philosophy with it and who can imagine they used to carry that tag. And who can imagine we used to be among the best attacking football teams in the world?
November 26th, 2009 at 1:26
Liverpool are going to buy Van Nistelrooy in January. wtf?
November 26th, 2009 at 1:27
@Jay wire: I don’t give a flying fuck what other people think of our football, as long as we are winning trophies.
November 26th, 2009 at 1:58
@Jay wire: I am totally in agreement with your comments mate. That’s what I meant about our regressive style of play. Wow I thought it was just me, but I am glad that there are others seeing the regression. What a shame, because Fergie was always the epitome of football par excellent. He doesn’t seem to be himself these last few years, and I wonder if he is just sick of it all. All the changes in football, and the money, money, money philosophy, and nothing else matters – SAD!
November 26th, 2009 at 2:02
@Traverse: Maybe you don’t give a damn Trav. But let me ask you mate are you a paying customer, and traveller to OT each week, because believe me mate, these fans do give a damn. I know you probably pay anyway, with TV, and other United things and I am not trying to get at the fans who cannot get to OT regularly, but for those who do – I feel that we are paying to see a Man United and type of football that doesn’t exist anymore. Maybe you are a regular though Trav
.
November 26th, 2009 at 2:07
@Jay wire: I remember Man United playing football the way it should be played Jaywire – those days seem long gone though these past few years. I love to win, and that’s all some fans think about, but I love to win AND to do it in style
.
November 26th, 2009 at 3:42
Well this was a “cut-price” performance from our “value” squad. We offered the “best value” that our owners “money can buy”, and we ended up with “cheap” performances from our “seconds”.
It was goal “free”, care “free”, and a skill “free” display.
Besitkas’ defensive line gave our strikers “all-they-could-eat”. but alas we couldn’t make the “down payment”. Instead we showed “0% interest” in winning the game and finally settled for “no-points”.
Welcome to fucked-up world of value oriented football economics!!
Jeez.
November 26th, 2009 at 3:45
My thought so far on Obertan.
!/. He needs to grow a full head of hair.
2/. He needs to grow a full beard (if he can).
3/. If he ever ventures outside, Hoodie and Shades are a must.
November 26th, 2009 at 3:55
@CraigMc: There are those, that despite the direst of evidence and the most damning display of the facts, will always turn their head the other way is a desperate effort to deny that change has happened.
In the end they will blame you and I for what has happened!!
November 26th, 2009 at 4:25
@Red Ranter: Does the cannon have that kind of range though?
November 26th, 2009 at 4:30
@Taehr: Fair enough. I actually like the kid but putting him out there with less accomplished muppets instead of starting him over Giggs for a change is a mistake. I want to see he him play more but with the big boys. I’m tired of playing some of the better young players in meaningless matches while playing the likes of Scholes way too often for my liking. Fergie needs to determine thre or four of these kids for the future and then start selling the rest.
November 26th, 2009 at 4:46
@Jay wire:
You just don’t have the right to say that stuff! You are trying to validate any argument you might have with made-up dramatics.
If we win a title or a cup of course it’s deserved!
You are trying all the time, to compare us to your first love, Barcelona.
Well we’re not Barcelona, in any shape or form. And we’re especially not Spanish are we.
We are United and we have done things the United way for some time now. We don’t need examples from La Liga to show us the way. We have our own history and a successful one at that!
What we need is to replace Ronaldo with a/some player(s) that can make an impact on our game. No more kidlets that may or may not become first teamers, or squad players that are being promoted to starters. What we need is (and I hate using the term) a few “world class” contributors that can elevate a solid squad into a competing squad.
2 seasons ago we won the CL and we came close last year too. We deserve a couple more great players to continue our very great legacy of deserved success.
November 26th, 2009 at 4:46
@CraigMc: He just doesn’t care about what we the supporters think. It’s the height of arrogance and it really is quite insulting. I don’t want our team to be run by the fans like Newcastle is but then again, even a manager like Fergie has people he needs to respect and answer to. In his eyes we all mean nothing and the only people he needs to respect and answer to are the Glazer’s. In his mind it is they who pay his salary. I mean why should I give a damn about him and the team when he could give frak about me. Instead he continues to waste my time and bore me to death while still shoving his brand down my throat like it’s a necessity. Trust me, I am a loyal follower and I do love this team and it’s history but do I really need to follow a team that continual moon’s me in the face? I don’t live in Manchester and i don’t have season tickets. If need be I can try to turn my allegiance towards another team. Hard as it would be I could let my heart and imagination latch onto the next great team or manager and follow that club due to the way they play and run the team. I still have Bayern Munich (although they suck at the moment too).
Trust me, I’m ready to bail out, I am that fed up and disgusted with the team’s attitude and style of play. For me it’s the same as buying a food product you enjoy and that is a staple in your house and then some corporation buys the company that produces it out and they go change the recipe of the product you like and make taste different and not as good. Would I still buy the product? NO.
At Man Utd it’s not just about winning but winning with style and winning playing fast attack minded football. There is no deviation of this unless you play a giant on thew road. At OT we have played this way since the days Of Sir Matt Busby. All of a sudden then Fergie decides he wants to deviate from the recipe that worked for him for 20 years and he has adapted this silly assed Italian/English hybrid with a dash of Rafa that we have to stomach because he wants to fulfill his legacy and pad his stats regardless of the manner in which those goals are achieved. If he cannot win the League and in Europe playing like Manchester United should, then it’s a the fault of his own preparations as well as the inability to build a proper squad by spending the money needed to get quality players instead of speculative teens who who under the age of 20 are nothing more than a hit or a miss proposition. He should show some balls and courage in his old age and play a consistent squad and play United style football and let the cards fall where they may. Instead of this coward’s approach that is just as busy kissing the behinds of the Glazer’s. I’m disgusted and I feel betrayed.
November 26th, 2009 at 4:48
@Taehr: I’d call half of them half chances and many were at acute angles where the chance of scoring was tough. I disagree. Yes he has missed a few chances but then again, he needs more minutes and much more service. A good striker needs 3 chances to score 1. He does not get three chances per game, I’m sorry.
November 26th, 2009 at 4:49
@NicoQB: Midfield? What midfield?
November 26th, 2009 at 4:51
@Jay wire: No mate, his end product was rubbish as well as his decision making on many of those plays. Watch the replays and take a look at his options on certain plays. Alway picks out the wrong man or delays too long to make the pass and allows the defense to recover.
November 26th, 2009 at 4:56
@CraigMc: Yes the Germans may lose as many as they win in finals or semi finals but they do go down with a fight, that’s for sure and that’s why I love them so. And as for cutting off the tv from United games, fine with me. I am sick of paying for Setanta in order to watch the kind of rubbish I was subjected to today and for most of the season. There is nothing I would like more than to take the Glazer’s and publicly flog them in Manchester Square. That family will be the end of us and I guarantee it. They need to be forced out of town before everything we love, cherish and hold sacred about this team is forever altered for the worst. I hate those assholes with all the venom in my body.
November 26th, 2009 at 5:01
I have to make to make a comment on Mickey “The Mouse” Owen.
If Park was substituted by a Fart, we would have smelled a difference in our attack.
Somehow I just didn’t get a whiff, did you??
November 26th, 2009 at 5:03
@Redrich: That was awesome…
Funny as well as a SAD reality of of beloved MAN UTD…. 
November 26th, 2009 at 5:11
@Jay wire: What people need to understand is that unless you grew up with manchester United and it’s in your family’s DNA, there is not this life long obligation to follow them no matter what. I am not from Manchester and I do no live in Manchester. Hell half the city of Manchester chooses to support this other sad entity that has the guts to wear powder blue (how gay), so why should a Canadian feel obligated to support such garbage?
The fact that I have immersed so much time and energy into the team and followed it with great interest and obsessive passion is not easily dismissed. I have bled with this club and gone through the good and the bad. But even when things were good, and this club lacked a quality manager (are you listening Big Ron) and players, they still tried to play the game the United way. The organization form the owners down supported and cared about the club and most importantly, it’s supporters. I do not see that anymore. I’ll never forget the day I went to the Manchester United website and tried to download a couple of wallpaper photos for my pc. I was completely shocked and turned off because they demanded money. Money for a photos I just downloaded elsewhere for free. I find no financial value in fucking pc wallpaper yet the glazer’s were demanding I pay for a digital photo that wasn’t even that good or clear. From that day on i have had an idea of what this club was headed for. Greed and extortion is the name of the game today. Lets rip the fans off, take their money and never answer to them about anything. And you know why they do this? Because the Glazer’s being savvy American businessmen understand the market of loyalty and addiction. They know that United to it’s supporters is a drug they cannot quit easily and so they have decided to milk us for everything they can get their grubby paws on. Despite the economic downturn, loyal footy fans will not go away and the rich ones, well we ‘ll just charge them more. I’d like to say that this isn’t my dad’s Manchester United but then again I am old enough to say this is no longer my Manchester United. Besides, my dad’s team of choice besides his beloved Panathinaikos was Real Madrid. He hated English football for all the reasons I loved it. Today he is looking down at me from Heaven and laughing his face off.
November 26th, 2009 at 8:17
@Redrich: Mate you only have to watch the Red Cafe on MUTV and listen to the fear of the presenters and ex pro’s on MUTV of speaking out of turn, to recognise how mind controlled we are to all going along with the Club and management take on things. They try to tell the fans too much what to think, and ridicule in the talk ins those who don’t take the party line.
November 26th, 2009 at 8:21
@CraigMc: Which is why I never watch MUTV talk shows. They suffocate me with their “everything’s fine” line. I understand they are paid to do and all that, but even when they commentate reserve games, they over exaggerate a simple pass, that’s just so nauseating.
November 26th, 2009 at 8:26
@Redrich: What worries me is that CSKA also gave us the fright of our fucking lives in almost taking the points – they went 3-1 up at OT by playing attractive, attacking football. So all this bloody nonsense about teams only coming to OT and parking the bus is just that! In view of the fact that when teams do come to OT and give us a game, then they come scarely close to taking the points – think Sunderland and Man City and Arsenal this season to get my gist. Perhaps it is a bloody good job that a good few do park the bus, because when they come on to us with any speed and potency, our defence is like jelly on a fucking plate – wibble wobble, wibble wobble, wibble wobble. Mainly because our MF is weak and often over run.
November 26th, 2009 at 8:33
I want Man United to start to sell some seat tickets allowing us fans in for the last 15 MINUTES of games only. That’s when the prawn sandwich brigade and the early traffic dodging fans leave, and that’s when you get the Late, Late show of attacking, all action football. 15 bloody minutes of good football and effort is the Man United fan ration these days in the late, late show
November 26th, 2009 at 8:38
@Red Ranter: You got it right in one RR. Nauseating is the word! I couldn’t be a party liner if my life depended on it, but I also don’t want to see what is not their either and lose all perspective. What I am seeing and saying though, I know is the opinion of many of the United fans I talk too, and probably the opinion of some who are saying the opposite when paraded in front of the cameras – SAD!
November 26th, 2009 at 9:41
How many times can I say this, Anderson is a waste of space all this “potential” “It is the managers fault” “He is an attacking midfielder” rubbish the black and white of it he isn’t good enough, he makes no effort and sooner he is moved on the better.
Fozzy isn’t up to it, nice lad but I am not sure mentally he is right, Obertan was exciting god to see a wingers doing step over again I must say.
November 26th, 2009 at 9:41
@CraigMc: They remind me of Republican’s in American government. You’re either with them or you don’t exist.
November 26th, 2009 at 9:42
@CraigMc: There’s no reason for a good team to come to OT and park the bus. They have very little to fear.
November 26th, 2009 at 10:26
Ok okay, whine rant sniffle and we get on with it. Should have been a draw, we played a team that has never played together before against a pretty decent side but hey, let’s ignore that.
Much more important news: “I have not closed the door on any club because I only have a short career and I want to enjoy my football,” Villa told the Daily Star.
“I have had a lot of offers, but I would have to pick the best option, and that could be in the Premier League, which I have never ruled out.”
That’d be David Villa. That’d be who we damn well should be looking to sign in January/summer. I always dismissed him as not wanting to come to England, but if he does he is the best striker in the world, and far from past it at 27. Mmmm Rooney/Villa partnership…drooooolllll
Last night:
Foster – 6.0 – I think at some point soon the boy needs to get a witchdoctor in. Once again a goal scored on him that wasn’t his fault. Maybe he could have gotten there, but a deflection when you’re set and a bounce…most keepers wouldn’t have saved it.
Rafael – 4.0 – I give him some relief because he’s not a left back. But he was rubbish.
Brown/Vida – 7.0 – No threat came through their areas.
Neville – 5.0 – Didn’t offer anything going forward, when we needed him to.
Gibson – 5.0 – Buh-bye. Had great hopes for him, but didn’t perform. Then again…
Anderson – 1.0 – …he was basically playing by himself in the middle of the park. Was Anderson high or something?
Park – 5.0 – Look he’s just Ji Sung Park. He’ll never be the right option against 11 defenders, he’ll never produce a piece of magic and he’ll never be the senior player you want to rely on. Tidy, efficient and blunt as a nerf arrow.
Obertan – 7.5 – F*ck me best £3m we’ve spent in ages. Looks very, very tidy. I want to see him playing with some actual talent around him.
Welbeck – 5.0 – I have no idea why people love the guy, other than being Mancunian. Great footballing attributes, no brain whatsoever.
Macheda – 6.5 – I have no idea why people don’t love this guy – great footballing brain, good technique and he’s young as hell. Should have scored with his final header though. Hope he doesn’t get bored and bugger off to some middle of the road Italian team.
Btw, did anyone else find out what happened with the 4th official saying Owen came on? Because I’m 99% he didn’t.
November 26th, 2009 at 10:48
@Stephen: Hey bro.. If I am not mistaken its been long time since you have been here. I mean its nice that this place is getting some of old regular faces like Craigy, you back in last few days. Yeah, very disappinting result though. I mean I am not a great believer of this thing but I seriously feel that Man UTD should go for complete revamp of the squad. If you don’t have money cut down on the no. of players. Just try and build a solid good team first and then think about strength in depth and all. I mean Just try to have 23 good players rather than having 30+ mediocre players.
Just do away with all those oldies, Foster, NANI, Ando, May Be even Welback, VIDIC (if he is really wanting to go), Rio (if someone is ready to buy him) and then go for completely new set of players and more imp a manager like my favorite Mourinho. I know I may sound stupid to many of you but you that is really what I feel we should do….
November 26th, 2009 at 10:51
obertan was class – still not the finished product but lookin good
anderson – shite adds nothing to midfield runs around like a headless chicken really poor positional sense, passing and first touch. shouldnt be anywhere the 1st team
gibson – needed too much time on the ball good passing but pretty innefective overall not helped by andersons absence
park – crap again played in the wrong posiotion most of the match
wellbeck – reserve team player
macgheda – promising
November 26th, 2009 at 11:07
@Onkar: Hello mate, Mourinho’s footballing mantra is the totla oppersite to the united Philosophy mate I am not a fan of his but if he came in we would win, but he would cause problems, play awful football, not promote youth and siply drag our good name through the mud.
I do agree with the squad, for me we over rotate and that showed last night no fluidity it look like 11 stangers playing last night, we need to play our so called best 11 and stick with that for a stretch of games.
November 26th, 2009 at 11:08
Ps I was always saying how overrtaed Anderson is, he is proving me right which isn’t a good thing.
November 26th, 2009 at 11:11
I’m Sorry.. But i still have to defend Anderson… He’ll come good eventually…
November 26th, 2009 at 11:13
In fact, he’ll come better than good.. He shall become the GOD!..
November 26th, 2009 at 11:32
@Stephen: I don’t know why nut never felt that mourinho would be as bad as people feel. Lets see why, I will use simple example to put my point forward and that is Jose’s second year at Chelsea. He was pretty bad in the first season or should I say mean??? I mean whenever his team used to go 1 up we all used to know its over but then that wasn’t just hanging on to lead like we do. It was more of dominating fiddling with the opposition but not killing them and trust me mate even with 1 goal lead they never looked vulnerable which we often do. And that can only be his confidence and his team’s ability nothing else.
But, in second he definitely did show what he is all about. Aggression attack lots of goals and Highest scoring and meanest defensive team that Chelsea was and that can’t be achieved unless you really play frighting attacking football isn’t it???
What he will also give is character that won’t leave in the shadows of Fergie after he is gone and that for me is NO 1 priority. He will definitely give us trophy. He will make Man UTD even more popular because believe me matey People are Crazy about Mourinho more than they are for any other manager. I mean don’t know whos the Barca Manager who won everything last year but they definitely know who is Mourinho and Where he is and that would make Man UTD even more appalling in my honest opinion.
And as far as the youngsters are concerned I think its better to have none rather than having the bunch of Overrated untested players plying just reserves week in week out and not able to lift our game when called for. And if you still want to have those bunnies then appoint someone like CQ (I know you have hard feeling about him) who can spot and take care of those young guns.
November 26th, 2009 at 11:34
@Onkar: I don’t know why nut* its but… So don’t misunderstand….
November 26th, 2009 at 11:43
@Onkar: Mate have you watched Inter play? They play awful football and he is one of the most unpopular people in Italy with his outbursts at other managers ect.
People like Mourinho becuase he is percieved as being “cool” and is charismatc, but he footballing beliefs are not United he is in fact anti United, win at all costs, he has no class as a person and his football is turgid. We want to win but in style. Also I cannot see Bobby Chalton apointing him mate he will win with us but we will not be the club we are now under him.
November 26th, 2009 at 12:10
@Redrich: Add a sprots head band to that and he’d be fit to start in a 70s movie.
Socrates!
November 26th, 2009 at 12:13
@Grognard: Exactly!!
Fletcher should be spared though…
November 26th, 2009 at 12:16
@Beachryan: Good ratings!
Somehow I’ve never been big on Villa. Maybe its because of his stupid haircut…
November 26th, 2009 at 12:21
Staying up till 3.15 am to watch United play like this.. Plus having to report to work at 9.00 am.. Definately not worth it. Feels Sick.. but still ‘old habits die hard.’
November 26th, 2009 at 12:52
@Stephen: I don’t know mate but I would only say that I would agree to disagree on this. As I am able to any other person who will not live in the SAF’s shadow and for me thats the problem. If we keep on searching for a manager who is so called Man UTD way then I am afraid but we are facing another patch like we faced after Sir Mat Busby. And I want we to avoid that at any cost that is all….
November 26th, 2009 at 12:53
@CraigMc: Some of us didn’t have the good grace to be born within walking distance of Old Trafford. I have to quantify why I support Manchester United and defend myself every day. I’m sure the people that are lucky enough would be moaning if we were Arsenal. All the pretty tippy tappy play in the world and ZERO trophies for 5 years. One defeat is a crisis at United. Could you imagine 5 years of nothing? We aren’t City.
The problem I see is that people don’t attack United. Everton came to OT with 6 defenders on the field. You can’t afford to play lovely expansive football against a team who have 10 players behind the ball. It stops us playing our regular game, and it is the only way teams can try and stop, and most of the time it doesn’t even work, but it’s the only chance they have!
People too often try and play Chelsea, and then get beat 5-0.
November 26th, 2009 at 12:56
@Adie: I am some how lucky.. I had planned to get up in the night to watch but some how due to some problem with alarm i could not get up.. But, I am feeling glad about it.. I never thought that I would say this but, I am glad that I missed it… And when I say this it aches a lot…
November 26th, 2009 at 13:05
@Beachryan: Spoken like a true blinkered Party Liner mate. If you are convinced by the fare offered to the United faithful last night, some who travelled for bloody miles to see the reserves practically in action, and that following the debacle against CSKA where again we had to rely on a late, late show – well NUFF said eh? I know you are always bringing us little reports on what is happening at OT, so I have to ask are you on staff, because if so I can understand your United ‘last nights football was ok’ official stance
.
November 26th, 2009 at 13:06
@Grognard: That’s what I have been saying for ages NOW Grog, nobody fears Man United anymore!
November 26th, 2009 at 13:07
@Grognard:
.
November 26th, 2009 at 13:27
@RM: And you sound like a TRUE MAN UNITED official party liner
. God forbid that us paying fans should have a different opinion to you on the type of football being served up to us all at OT 
.
November 26th, 2009 at 13:47
@Traverse: It shouldn’t have come to us having to rely on the last minutes of injury time in the game though Trav. Same old bloody story mate – and we are not always going to get what we need in the late, late show!
November 26th, 2009 at 14:00
@Traverse: I said in that post Trav I wasn’t ATTACKING anybody who doesn’t live within spitting distance of OT or who live so far away that they cannot get to the games. Nevertheless Trav, those who do FORK OUT week on week, and the season ticket holders etc, need to be considered mate, because I think and I know many others do, that it is NOT OK to play an almost 2nd string team at OT, and frustrate the fuck out of us as they often do with SAF’s team. SAF lied in his press conference mate, he said that he was only going to make about 2-3 changes to the team, and he named Gibson, Rafael, and Macheda. So some United fans bought tickets in good faith thinking it was only going to be minimal changes – I don’t think that is OK, and SAF should have told the truth, yeah it will be nearly all 2nd string players. Why didn’t he do that? Because he would have got a much lower gate that’s why
. So please don’t think I was trying to offend you at all Trav because I have no problem with all our support world wide, whoever and wherever they are.
November 26th, 2009 at 14:06
@RM: I just want to say RM that you are probably a paying customer too, so not getting at you for that mate – sorry if I gave that impression. All United fans pay to support them one way or another! Wherever they live in the world. However, I feel strongly about paying greatly for match tickets when we are not going to see a greater proportion of our 1st team players than nearly all our second stringers being sent out in a CL game where we wanted to finish in 1st place. Maybe I am unreasonable, but I think we have a right to say that it is not OK, and I am writing to Fergie to tell him so!
November 26th, 2009 at 14:13
@ CraigMC – I wish I did work for United, that’d be great, but alas I do not. I’m happy to rip into us when we truly suck (see Anfield this year) but I didn’t think last night was one of those cases.
I’d of been over the moon if our team of youngsters came out and beat a veteran but limited Turkish side, but I can’t blame them for not being able to. We were the better team, even the most blinkered supporter would acknowledge that. I just don’t get what you expect from the kids?
Do you play football? It’s incredibly difficult to break down a team that just want to defend. Every team in the world struggles in that situation. Had Rafael not shirked his defensive resopnsiblities and had we not been undone by a deflection, we would have had some space to operate.
It wasn’t a great performance, and I was really annoyed with our slow build up, but look at the stats! Possession, shots, passing – we owned them. It’s dissappointing but hardly the end of the world.
I’ve been watching United since the prem began, and it’s:
a. Never been harder to break down uber defensive sides (due to higher levels of fitness, better discipline and so forth)
b. Never been the case that we just happily steam roll every team.
So what do you expect?
November 26th, 2009 at 14:50
@Beachryan: My point is Beachy I just didn’t expect the see a TEAM of mostly kids in the first place. It seems like fans are cheated buying tickets to see Man United in a CL game where we needed to win/draw to top the group. It was an important game for 2 other reasons also. Giving up a European CL unbeaten record in 23 games at home, and the momentum of keeping up a WINNING mentality and momentum. As for all the years you have followed Man United, I salute you mate. I have supported the team 17 years and I know our philosophy for WINNING but winning with great aplomb philosophy has changed, and our football has become for many United fans Drab and pedestrian, and especially in the last 2 seasons. Anyway, nothing you can do about it mate
November 26th, 2009 at 16:31
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRj45Es-rFk
November 26th, 2009 at 18:14
is it just me…. or do records seem to die with foster in goal?
yesteryear’s cleansheet record was also fudge3d up by butter fingers….
November 26th, 2009 at 18:23
@NicoQB: Fletcher and Hargreaves are both spared but two men do not make a midfield these days and one hasn’t played for almost two seasons. And when I say midfield, I mean our wide midfield/wingers too. Obertan shows promise but the rest are just rubbish. Speaking of PARKing the bus. That’s what we do every time we start Just Shitty Park. For me Valencia is not United class, Giggsy is up there in years and Nani is a washout. Obertan is the only positive in a totally pathetic wide situation. In the middle Anderson is a hopeless case, Scholes is done like dinner, Carrick is woefully inconsistent and often comatose in his displays, Gibson has a great shot but nothing else and Lljaic is a million years away. Our midfield is so bad we have our forwards playing the role of midfielders. How bad is that? Unfortunately we have nobody else to play the role of forwards. Is there any doubt why we are rubbish?
November 26th, 2009 at 18:39
@CraigMc: I cannot believe he gave positive grades to Foster and Macheda. Although Foster was not totally to blame for the goal as it was clearly deflected, it was far away enough that he should have reacted much quicker than he did and his positioning as usual was rubbish. Besiktas then had another opportunity close in where their player shot just wide. Where was Foster? Guessing the other way and already one kneee on the ground and totally out of position and outguessed. His such rubbish. He did nothing to warrant a 4/10 and yet he gets a 6/10? Based on what?
Then he gives Macheda 6.5/10 and calls his mind magical when all I see is stupidity in spades. Timid in the box, slow to react to low crosses and unwilling to dive to get to the end of a low cross. His decision making and dilly dallying on the ball was frustrating beyond words and his header near the end smelled of nervousness because any quality striker would have headed that ball down.
Now I don’t know if Beachryan is a part loyalist but if he is, he should come out and say so and be prepared to take the heat for the club as nobody else on that team has the sack for the job. Cowardly, lazy, unprepared and uninspiring football from a team we have all come to expect a whole lot from. I am sick and tired of this squad of players and the management and coaches and most of all the owners and their turning this team into a corporate monster that lies to the people and that demands lies and loyalty from it’s employees or they get the sack. MUTV? Cannot stomach the dog and pony show. It’s rubbish and reminds me of a George W Bush press conference. They only want to hear positives from the fans and if someone actually questions the Boss or the team in anyway, he is probably physically carted off and placed in an internment camp and forced to do hard labor.
This is not the team I bought into a long time ago, that’s for sure.
November 26th, 2009 at 18:47
@CraigMc: It’s especially inexcusable when it is a Champions League game that they still need to get points from to guarantee first in the group. Unforgivable mistake by Fergie. But try telling him that. He has become a pompous arrogant ass of a man who is not up for any criticism and who is as stubborn as ever and unwilling to ever admit a mistake.
As for the fans who pay good money mate, I would like to say I feel bad for them and deep down I do but they need at some point to start showing the bollocks to stay away and send a message to the higher ups at OT that what they have been serving up is no longer palatable. Only that way will things change. And even then they may not because the Glazer’s will not spend money. They only want to make it and when they are done, they will sell and be rid of the debt that has crippled the team but not them. It’s totally disgusting. Fans need to revolt against the present regime. They need to open their windows in the middle of night and like Howard Beale let out a scream and shout “I’m as mad as Hell, and I’m not going to take it any more.” That and a boycott of OT and of the MU merchandise. Teach the fuckers a lesson that we are not to be trifled with, taken advantage of and ignored. But how many will listen or even take the sword? We are all such pathetic sheep.
November 26th, 2009 at 19:02
@Beachryan: It’s hard to break them down because we haven;’t got the skill, the pace and the imagination or vision to break them down. The club hardly ever uses 1,2’s and when they do, the return pas is always rubbish. There is never urgency in our game until the last ten minutes when we are behind and we do not seem to have a problem breaking them down then. Pace is the most important factor, proper width where our wingers or fullbacks take on their defender one on one and skin him. Add to that our inability to play the kind of one touch football that so easily dismantled Roma 7-1 three years ago. One touch does not allow defenses time to adjust and puts enormous pressure on them to keep their shape. We don’t use it because frankly, we are so used to playing slow and standing around that when a player decides to one touch a ball, the target of the pass is too asleep to get the hint that he should have been moving into space. Our off the ball movement is amongst the worst I have ever seen.
Look at how terrible our corners are and our throw ins. No movement to the ball or to the goal by anyone. A throw in takes forever to happen because the player throwing the ball in can never find an open player because they are all just standing around. Our midfielders lack skill and imagination and have no idea how to break down a defense by incorporating chip lob passes and perfecting proper through balls that reach their target in the right area rather than too wide where a player like Michael Owen has no target or option. Our wide players have absolutely no crossing ability and our forwards are inept at getting to the end of a ball in the 6 yard box because they are generally playing so high up they have to sprint hard to get to the end of a decent ball in the box. And it wouldn’t hurt for them to dive at a ball once in a while like Ronaldo and RVN used to. Macheda could have had two goals last night on low crosses if he had given the effort and sacrificed his body a bit. But you know what they say. A bad haircut tells you a lot about the intelligence of a person. Macheda is a major numptee in my mind. And finally, when we get the ball near the box our forwards or midfielders always have a hard time controlling the ball or they delay just enough where the opening is gone or the shot is blocked. That’s a lack of skill and trying to be too perfect because they are incapable of taking a shot or making a move unless the ball and space is set up perfect for them. At to all this negative tactics by the manager and their need to constantly ruin any attack by adding a useless deep back pass to the proceedings and you wonder why we struggle?
November 26th, 2009 at 19:15
@Grognard: All back passes should be fucking banned for United players – end of!
November 26th, 2009 at 19:16
@Grognard: Just wondering, why do you still support Man Utd? Its clear from your post that you’re obviously not happy with the team. Football isn’t really life and death dude, if you’re following something that brings you sooo much grief, that why don’t you stop? There are the Barcas and Arsenals that obviously play to your taste and have been doing so for a while, I’m sure no one will shoot you if you decide to go for a team that obviously makes you happy instead of supporting something inept and totally useless as you’ve put it.
November 26th, 2009 at 19:16
@Beachryan: You speak of stats. What stats mean anything other than the score? Some of the greatest teams in football history have been teams that win with a tremendous counterattacking style. They have much less possession, take fewer shots, get fewer corners and give up possession and shot at them but in the end they soak up the best pressure well and break out a few times in the game and get a few goals. So many of the great Italian champions of the past were based on this system and many German champions have done this as well. I’ll say it again, stats are for losers and do you need more evidence of that then last night? Final score is all that matters. And besides, other than a missed penalty and a few close calls at the end of the game, did United ever really threaten Besiktas? No they didn’t. So stats are even more of a joke.
November 26th, 2009 at 19:17
@Grognard: Gr8 post about how you came to support united and your thoughts on the American ownership and the charge to download a wallpaper. It was a said day the day the Glaziers came, nearly as sad as the day football club disappeared. It is such a shame football has become so commercial and so far removed from the communities that teams are supposed to represent. I often speak to older people in Manchester about the good old days and how they would bump in to players in town and have a chat and a pint.. I am told as a supporter you felt part of the club. My grand farther often tells me how he would forget his season ticket and the bloke on the gate would wave him in saying “enjoy the game Tommy”.
United is now a global business and its fans customers, sorry cash cows. old Trafford is an attraction just as Disney land is. I am proud of this. When ever I travel and people ask where I am from as soon as I say manchester they say united. Thats what gets on the nerves of the blue noses the most I think
November 26th, 2009 at 19:22
@Wink: People don’t want to blame him for yesterday but to me, his very slow reaction to the shot and deflection and his poor positioning and his once again not being on his toes but being flat footed at the time of the shot allowed a long range effort to beat him. How long are people going to make excuses and support the lad. I have nothing against him except for the fact that I know he is not good enough to be the next starting keeper for United. It’s time Fergie wakes up to this and the supporters do as well. He might do better on a poor team where he gets lots of opportunities to make stops. This may keep him more focused and the team’s poor play will deflect attacks on him. It’s not too much to ask in my mind that any keeper we have make one or two stops out of one or two chances a game. He is just not focused and he is not clutch for us.
November 26th, 2009 at 19:26
@CraigMc: The club has a very cowardly borderline gutless approach to the game. Games are not won on possession alone. Possession is nice but you need to do something with the possession. They are so intent on keeping the ball that when a 5-/50 opportunity to make a play and get a crack on goal comes, they pass it by because they are worried Fergie is going to come down on them for giving up the ball. We have a team of timid players that do not enforce their will on defenses like Ronaldo used to because they are afraid of the hairdryer. This anal approach to the game is making us a boring outfit. Look at Arsenal. There biggest problem is they make too many passes before shooting but they always make positive passes and do not destroy an attack by Scholesing the ball back to defenders at the first sign of defensive pressure.
November 26th, 2009 at 19:28
@CraigMc: Party liner? He gave ratings of 4/10, 1/10 5/10 for most of the players. You think that’s a party liner rating? Really?
November 26th, 2009 at 19:30
@Grognard: Sorry, but hope you didn’t miss my post above, i asked a question and I really want to get your answer.
November 26th, 2009 at 19:32
@Brwned: That has to be the stupidist post I have ever read on this blog in three years. Why don’t you leave you wife when she screams at you or why don’t you trade in your kids if they aren’t smart enough. We choose our loyalties when we are young and we stand by them because of this term called “LOYALTY”. Through the good and the bad we endure and sacrifice. I may not be happy about what my team is doing of late but I am not about to flush 35 years of support down the toilet like a used up napkin. I’m not that fickle although my rage and frustration often makes me contemplate moving on. The reason I don’t is that my blood runs Red Devil red. So save your stupid comments for somebody else because I for one was bloody insulted by them.
November 26th, 2009 at 19:33
Mr Gary Neville publically admitted in post game interviews the following:-
1. That the team last night DESERVED to lose.
2. That the teams DECISION making was POOR.
3. The LAST PASS wasn’t good enough.
4. The crossing of the ball into the penalty area NOT UP TO SCRATCH.
5. The play in the last third NOT DECISIVE enough.
6. We didn’t take our chances.
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO go Red Nev. Now all you bloggers who thought Craig hysterical last night, because I quoted and emphasised those very NEGATIVE aspects of our game that Gary is emphasising – think again perhaps
. But I have been saying the Gary negatives on last nights game, about most of our games this season, so glad that at least ONE of our players is aware of it too, even if only in that game, and is HONEST enough to admit it publically! Go Nev!
November 26th, 2009 at 19:37
@Red Ranter: I was answering the first part of his post comments RR, not the ratings bit – I should have said that eh?
November 26th, 2009 at 19:43
@Wink:
. I think you might be right on that one. Seems like it now doesn’t it?
November 26th, 2009 at 19:46
@Grognard: Polite much? If you’re insulted, that’s your cuppa, I just asked a question unlike the other people here. You said it above yourself, that not being from Manchester, you DON’T owe any loyalties to United, so why the comparisons with marriage and family that are more serious and binding than a sport?
If the red runs in your veins like you said, then I’d truly hate to meet a Liverpool fan. Fergie? mutton head? have some respect man.
November 26th, 2009 at 19:48
@RedTan: You said it mate. I honestly wished I lived in Manchester so that I could try to get a large enough group together to protest the treatment of the fans and the state of things. A concerted effort needs to be made similar to the revolt when the glazer’s took over that created Manchester FC. Enough people need to put their foot down and demand that the owners sell and leave Manchester forever. Boycott games, refuse buying merchandise and stop watching games on tv. Above all picket lines need to be formed and the word needs to be shouted out that United fans are fed up with the way things are being run.
It’s bad enough when we see our team playing poorly and nothing seems to be done to improve things. Bu tthe root cause of everything is the glazer family and that massive debt. We sell a player like Ronaldo and we do not see proper replacements bought to help replace him. Instead the money disappears. Fans are being forced to pay for everything and above board. Further more, the team has a hands off policy to both the fans and media. They want nothing from us except our money. If we cannot be conformist to their way of thinking, we are shunned. I have never liked productions like MUTV and Chelsea TV because they are nothing more than corporate propaganda machines. Everybody is afraid to ask the important questions and the club is systematically turned into a worldwide brand like Coca Cola or Kraft Dinner. The club no longer belongs to the supporters, they need to buy expensive memberships to be part of the team. Pay for everything including useless pc wallpaper and bloody gravitars. We are all being taken granted for and very under appreciated.
I do not want us to be like Newcastle where the fans initimidate the owners into making dumb assed moves, but please, where do we actually fit in when it comes to this corporate monster? When do our concerns and our questions start to mean anything and when do we start getting back a little respect for the hard money we pay out to watch this rubbish? We’ve had it good for a long time and now it seems we are being forced to Hell for our sins. For years Manchester United was one of the most popular teams in the world because of the way they played and the attitude they had as well as the strong ambassadors to the game that they allowed to go out and sell the product. Today we are fastly becoming a very unpopular team with many. We are seen along with Chelsea as everything that is wrong with the game. We operate on a massive debt and bully other teams. We mistreat our fans and even cause a large portion of them to form their own club out of disgust. Above all, we are being charged for everything under the sun and yet the product we are paying for is getting worse and worse by the hour. And nobody seems to care. I’m just at my wits ends because my nature is not to be a conformist and not to tow the party line. I am feeling like an outsider when in fact I wished I had more of a say. It’s killing me.
I need to get a life I guess because this team matters far too much to me. 
November 26th, 2009 at 19:51
@CraigMc: Gary Neville hardly said anything ground breaking now did he? Anyone who watched the game can clearly see those things. He however didn’t say Fergie or Manchester United were past it though, now that would have been truly ground breaking.
November 26th, 2009 at 19:58
@CraigMc: Finally, I have something positive to say about Gary Neville. He has the courage to stand up and say the truth because frankly, he knows he’s on his last legs there. He has nothing to lose and his frustration is pouring out. Well done Nev.
November 26th, 2009 at 20:02
@Brwned: Mate Grog has been a supporter of Man United for as long as SAF has been our Manager, and thats light years – right. If his comments are less than complimentary in the last couple of seasons, then it is just because he hasn’t got an appetite for the brand of football United have developed in last 2 or 3 years. I am not impressed either with our lacklustre football the last couple of seasons. I am a Manc born and bred, Salford Red, who was brought up on football par excellence from our Man United of past seasons. doesn’t
make me any more loyal though than those who have no chance of getting to OT, but have followed the team for donkeys years from wherever they are in the world. We hate the way our football has gone mate, and is still going, we don’t hate Man United and all it stands for. I think you will find we are Man United til we die. Perhaps we are spoiled brwned, from having excellent football played AND won in style. I don’t think its wrong to want that Bro – do you???????
November 26th, 2009 at 20:02
@Brwned: I’ll say and feel how I want to. Am I polite enough? Not to idiots who come out of nowhere who are newbies on this blog and have no idea of who I am or what I am about asking condescending questions written in a tone to irritate me. You had no right whatsoever to question my loyalties or ask that kind of question. That was just your cheap and classless way of telling me that if I don’t like it, I can go elsewhere. Well the same goes to you mate. If you can’t handle my heat, then go over to the corporately friendly official Man Utd website where all think and act like you and have no soul to boot.
November 26th, 2009 at 20:03
@CraigMc: The only thing he left out was that Besiktas fielded a better team than we did.
I would venture that if those same two teams played again, the result would be similar.
I just don’t see that much quality coming through our ranks and the side we fielded last night epitomizes the lack of solid starters our squad has.
I cannot name one United player that stood out in any way other than poor – and there was a shitload of those!!
November 26th, 2009 at 20:06
@CraigMc: Way to go Bro, you tell him. It’s not just the way they are playing though. It’s the negative and rude culture they are promoting where they treat someone like you and me as outcasts and then they get others like Brwned to think like them. Like he is a better fan than us because he doesn’t question the status quo.
November 26th, 2009 at 20:09
@Brwned:
, I don’t think Nev would dare say that about Fergie mate, neither do I believe he would ever want too. He has won every trophy to be won under SAF, but if I am honest something is wrong with Fergie, his body language tells it. I watched him carefully in post match interview and he seemed like he didn’t want to be there. Who can blame him though with all the flak he has to take whenever he says anything, it is almost always taken out of fucking context, and he gets mentioned and done by the media more than anybody – sad mate – media bastard no nowts 
November 26th, 2009 at 20:14
@Redrich: I have to confess I did think Obertan was ok tho Bro! I know he hasn’t just got the crossing and final ball quite right yet, but boy he does work hard, and what I really like about him is that he fucking hates it when he loses the ball, and he goes chasing after it. I think he will come good mate – but lets wait and see eh?
November 26th, 2009 at 20:15
@CraigMc: Reading Grognards posts, I’d like to think he can defend himself very eloquently
Maybe its a bit of paranoia from you both, but my question was asked geniunely.
@Grognard: Like I said, my question was asked innocently after you said you had no loyalties which made me think it should be easy for you to go support someone else if you wanted to. If you’re irritated/ angry that’s really your problem and if you feel the need to call people names over the internet to feel big, then more power to you. I just asked a question unlike the other sheep on this topic who just follow everything everyone says and know one really questions any other person. Almost like a group of teenage emos who somehow think because they can criticise United and call people names somehow show how much they “bleed red”. Whatever that means. Before you call someone classless, you should think about respecting that Scottish guy who has done so much in the last 23yrs instead of calling him mutton because of a season or two that haven’t really gone the way you’d have liked and maybe act your age too? Its football mate not life or death. Its like beating your kid to a pulp because you love him and you’re angry with him after he’s been naughty. Very apt.
November 26th, 2009 at 20:21
@Grognard:
And you accuse people of posting about you without knowing what you’re about? Yeah how dare I question you and put my emotions under check, how dare I choose to see that everything isn’t as bad as saying the entire team needs an overhaul or the man without which most people on this blog probably wouldn’t be supporting United isn’t actually as inept as most here would have you think, yeah the nerve of me to question anyone’s post. Yeah that must make me a better fan, I heard its the new black.
November 26th, 2009 at 20:32
@Grognard: Now I’m confused. You just posted a comment that said no one is forced to be loyal to United, then say you aren’t liable to keep supporting United and you feel like quitting on the team and then suddenly say you are forced to support United? How does one reconcile between the two?
That even confounds me.
Or maybe I am probably too thick to get it.
November 26th, 2009 at 20:39
@Brwned: I think we are going to like you brwned – we love a good spat – well I do anyway
. You just chuck the incendiary devices in their mate – it makes for a fun day. A bit like cojoling down the pub with a bunch of rank Mancs – who are all very passionate, and all very opinionated, and its the whole fandom thing.
You have missed it a bit though Bro, with thinking that people on this blog don’t question or debate with each other – they do. We have had some very rousing debates on here, and the United massive on this blog can dish it out believe me. You will find that out if you stick around long enough brwned. Anyway you are right that Grog can hold his own – and right to pull me on it
.
November 26th, 2009 at 20:39
What did I miss folks? The floodgates open yet? I bet there’s been calls for Fergie resignation and unfair criticsm of a bunch of inexperienced kids!!?
Message people, United do not have a God given right to win every match we play!! It may seem that way after years of constant winning, thanks to Fergie btw, but we can lose, it’s quite possible. Even other ‘massive’ teams lose to lesser opposition; Barca to rubin kazan, chelsea to burnley; madrid to a team in the 3rd spanish division; liverpool to everyone
etc. It happens!!
Our first half play was sublime and after we conceded that goal and came out for the second half, you could tell the inexperience reared its ugly head in the youngsters. The chemistry dissolved and the nerves kicked in. I for one am delighted at what I saw in the first and maybe a more experienced head like Fletch, Giggs or scholes in the middle would have motivated the younger ones when their play began to dip.
Big teams lose, and in our case, we didn’t even deserve to. Instead of banishing this group of younglins, I feel we should give them more chances. The potential is there, and they will get better. Some talk about the ManUtd they know and love fading away; well, in the first half, that ManUtd we knew and loved was on the pitch; young academy recruits playing mesmerising football at the top level and dominating a european team. What more do you want?!
If United gives you so much heartache, I suggest you desist from watching our games. For me, it is a source of enjoyment and to get overly agitated over something that is meant to be stress-relieving kind of defeats the purpose; it’s like hitting yourself with a stress relief ball.
November 26th, 2009 at 20:43
Anyway I am heading out. Will be away for a while — all the thanksgiving stuff this side of the pond. I trust you folks can behave.
November 26th, 2009 at 20:49
@Gabriel: Why are we NOT surprised that you are delighted at what YOU saw Gabriel
.
November 26th, 2009 at 20:51
@CraigMc: He’s fast and is able to keep the ball at his feet in the open field, but is a long way from being productive.
November 26th, 2009 at 20:54
@CraigMc: I think he’s one of them, mate!!
November 26th, 2009 at 20:55
@Redrich: He has the basic technical skills though Rich!
November 26th, 2009 at 21:02
Nani Nani Nani Nani Nani Nani Nani, Nani Nani Nani Nani Nani Nani Nani. What a genious, what a player, what a phenominen, what a performer, how will we cope without him – Inter your gain mate!
. Good excuse to holiday in Italy, to go see the Nani play. That will be what I am telling the Mrs anyway 
.
November 26th, 2009 at 21:03
@Redrich: I think your right Rich mi man!
November 26th, 2009 at 21:06
@CraigMc:
You know me well mate!! Honestly, the first half was dynamite stuff! Even you have to admit that. I won’t deny the second half was a bit of a downer and just made it all the more frustrating, because we fully deserved to win that game.
The second half saw a massive dip in performance and team chemistry, but that could have been relieved by putting an experienced head in or even Neville spurring those kids on when they began to fear losing our unbeaten record.
I’m not one for exaggerated reactions, but if macheda’s header had gone in, we’ll be singing a different tune. United rarely lose and when we do, the world is apparently ending. All i’m saying is, a bit of humility, patience and perspective won’t go a miss.
November 26th, 2009 at 21:13
@Redrich: One of who??!!
I am a lone ranger mate, think Aragorn or Han Solo 
but without the charm or bravado 
November 26th, 2009 at 22:03
@Gabriel: I think he meant one of the party liners Bro
.
November 26th, 2009 at 22:08
@Gabriel: Red Nev himself disagrees with you Gabriel Bro, he said that United did NOT DESERVE to win that game. I also think your missing our point entirely mate. We are not saying we have to win every game, and it wouldn’t make any difference to our assessment if they had have drawn the game, because our grouch was the plodding pedestrian bland football of United these days. It obviously suits you mate, but it doesn’t suit us – so we agree to differ
.
November 27th, 2009 at 0:38
@Redrich – I’m sure you had the decency and common sense to read my posts in full before you come up with a statement like “Barca your first love”. All it does is paint me as one of those fake fans or even a regular Barca supporter who visits other forums to stir things up. I don’t appreciate that. I’ve always indicated United to be my number one team. I’m frustrated at the rubbish football we play nowadays and that’s how I express it. And on deserving, it’s obvious it’s a subjective matter. I don’t believe any team playing the way we have been playing, deserves to win. That’s my opinion, since it’s a subjective matter. Your measure stops at winning, mine ends with style. You have to win in style. So you can’t say I don’t have a right to say it out.
November 27th, 2009 at 2:34
We played a second string team that had hardly played together and with a Carling Cup team can you really expect to get a result against a seasoned team that has a lot of European experience (albeit mostly as whipping boys).
People rave about our strength in depth. It is total rubbish. If we are missing key first teamers such as Rooney, Fletcher, EVDS, Giggs and Evra we are a very ordinary team-midtable at best.
People rave about our youth. It is total rubbish. Anderson and Nani were sold to us for £40 million when we were supposedly flush with cash and two seasons later neither of them is anywhere close to world class and neither can make it into the first team and considering how weak our midfield is-Fergie’s weakest midfield id argue in 20 years that is saying something. Macheda is overhyped just because he scored a couple of fluke goals last season. The rest of his game is woeful and being able to finish is no use if you are unable to get into good positions. Gibson is remarkably average only this time he wasn’t able to cover up a bad performance with a goal. Park offers nothing offensively-but we already knew that he is just a role player when we need to defend a flank.
Uuuuf. If we do not get money soon and spend it wisely we are going to go the way of Liverpool
November 27th, 2009 at 2:37
@Brwned: Not a problem mate and I apologize if I came on a little defensive and rude. Sometimes the Internet takes words and makes them sound entirely different than they were intended. Consider my reaction a case of prior conditioning to some of the other more intentional stabs in my direction I have endured over the years. One does get a little paranoid and defensive. Again sorry for overreacting and hopefully you don’t hold it against me.
And trust me, I have a lot of respect and love for the Scottish guy. I have followed him and would fall on a sword for him but I honestly have to question his motives and techniques over the past 18 months because he is going against everything he ever stood for. He has treated me and millions out there like spoilt sons and now I feel like he has cut me out of the will with his new tactics and bad attitude. Above all, it bugs me that he does not get into the Glazer’s faces more over how they are hurting and holding back the club. Anyway, I am not party to the inner circle and I cannot say for sure what is going on, but then again, that’s my point. Why aren’t the paying fans entitled to a bit more respect from the club. Where is the 80 million from the Ronaldo sale? Why aren’t we aggressively addressing some of the club weaknesses and why is the club acting like a greedy corporate monster to all it’s fans of whom many are suffering greatly from the financial crisis. Instead they raise prices on tickets, charge more for merchandise and what do we get for the loyalty? Ben Foster in goal and a team sadly in need of an injection of talent and skill. I’m very loyal mate but I speak my mind and I am not one of those who votes for a party and then stands by when that party screws the people. I am the same way with my sports teams. I hope that clears up things in your mind. Anyway, hope there is no hard feelings over my temperamental outburst. Cheers.
November 27th, 2009 at 2:39
@Red Ranter: I’m a complicated SOB mate.
November 27th, 2009 at 2:40
@Red Ranter: Gobble Gobble!
November 27th, 2009 at 2:43
@Jay wire: Don’t worry mate. We all know you are United first and foremost. Most of us have another team we follow on the continent or even in South America. I for one am a life long Bayern Munich supporter and my father played for Panathinaikos in Greece so I kind of follow them out of respect and family loyalty. You are free to like anyone else except Liverpool, Chelsea, Man City and Arsenal.
November 27th, 2009 at 2:48
@colver: I agree with you about the midfield. In fact I would go one further. I have loyally followed the club since 1976 and i think this is the weakest midfield we have had since 1974 when we were relegated. I honestly cannot think of a team we had in all that time that had as bad a midfield. At least not since the time of Bryan Robson. And that’s saying a lot because I think Darren Fletcher has become a fantastic footballer.
November 27th, 2009 at 2:49
@CraigMc: You still haven’t answered my question. Would you rather we played football everyone admired and won fuck all for 5 years, or to have won the most competitive league in the developed footballing world 3 times in a row, and been in 2 Champions League Finals in a row, winning 1?
If we’d have played our full team, people would be complaining that we don’t give the youngsters a chance, and then when we get injuries complain that the youngsters don’t have any experience.
Our front three in Macheda, Welbeck and Obertan have a combined age of 57.
Anelka and Drogba have a combined age of 61.
November 27th, 2009 at 3:04
How far does my paranoia go? I am reading reports that United are preparing to offload Nemanja Vidic claiming that he may not be affordable and the fact we have not offered him an new contract. Sure it could all be BS by the media to stir up trouble…………..or is it. Vidic has come out and put down all those rumors and said he is very happy here and he wants to be part of a new era where he has the seniority and he helps develop the young players. So why are reports leaking out that he and United are not discussion a new contract. One could say that Vidic and his agent are happy right now and he has some time left on his contract. There is no need to pursue a new deal yet. But here is my take. The problem is not with Vidic at all. It’s with Man Utd and the Glazer’s. I get the bad and sick feeling in the pit of my stomach that they are trying to unload some big contracts and replace them with young kids and smaller contracts. So lets paint a picture of a greedy and mysterious Vidic and create an environment or mood that makes it look like he wants to leave but he really doesn’t. Lets put it this way, my paranoia is fed by the fact I do not like or trust the Glazer family as far as I could throw a fat Sumo wrestler. Also, Vidic has been famous for always replying to untrue rumors before like the one’s about his wife wanting out. He came out today and quashed rumors of wanting to leave yet we have reports claiming United is not offering and United is not doing. Designed to make Vidic look bad when he clearly isn’t.
I am seeing a pattern here and it bothers me. I see a man who is continually stating his loyalty and a club that does not seem to want it. This is the Glazer’s at work friends, I’m sure of it. They did the very same thing with a couple of high profile Tampa Bay Buccaneer football stars back in the US. It sickens me and it makes me feel that this season will be Nemanja’s last with the club even though he wants to stay. This is how bad our financial situation is becoming I feel.
November 27th, 2009 at 3:35
@Grognard: It’s his agent at work. 100%. ‘Mo Money ‘Mo Problems. It’s agent school 101. Get the media to say the player is unhappy, get him linked to big European clubs, player comes out and says he would like to stay, club offers big new contract. Textbook.
You can take the tinfoil hat off now
November 27th, 2009 at 3:41
@Grognard: I’d add Real Madrid and Internazionale to that list. Can’t stand those
November 27th, 2009 at 3:55
@Traverse: Sorry to budge into something that does not involve me,but my answer to that is simply I’d rather we played well and also won. This is not far fetched but contrary to what most believe, it is actually the most successful way to play. You win more trophies if you play attacking football esp in Europe.And Arsenal is always given as an example of the disadvantage of attacking football. NO. Arsenal haven’t won anything not because they play great football,but due to various other circumstances. A very thin squad with injury prone key players. A lack of leaders in the team i.e. experienced players.Nothing to do with playing football the right way or being naive
November 27th, 2009 at 6:41
@Grognard: So after following Man UTD for years, bleeding the Red of Red Devils I never thought I would say I am going say all this things. I am still in shock over what I said yesterday and that has really made think about the things with little different perspective. I wrote that I was happy that missed the match! Am I serious???? Is this what I really feel now about Man UTD?? Seems like… And trust me that hurt…..
OK I have to say that as far as this season goes I will maintain my stand that we will Finish in top three in PL and will see QF stage in CL. But is this what I want to talk about in this post?? NO. I am going to touch most of the things which have been dwelling in my mind.
First of all I am not very much in agreement about what you think about the team. Though I have to agree that we are lacking a skilled CAM in our MF but beyond that for me the LW is the only position that we may need to reinforce. But beyond that its not that I have too much problem with this team. As this team has time and again showed this season that when they are allowed to play to there strength that simple 4-4-2 with two strikers doing there job this team can cop with most in team in the PL. But the problem lies with the OT management and that includes SAF. I don’t know why but I am getting the feeling more and more the man is just not bothered about what we the supporter. I mean the has this place is no more a club which loves his fans and they play for there fan’s. I agree that Trophies are important, make no mistake about it but at what cost. I mean I really have to appreciate Mr. Wenger here that even after going through a phase of 5 yrs without a trophy the team really has increased there fan following around the world, revenue, quality, liking, and whats more there isn’t single Arsenal fan I came across who want Wenger out. Why would they be, as they know that with whatever they have in terms of resources this man has done the magic out of it.
I mean that’s what I call the play, the Club and the manager who cares about the fan. I mean common guys even they are having having debts in tune of 350mn and given there size is half of our in terms of brand value even they are in as much trouble as we are but what they, there owner and manager have is prudent approach which we are lacking that’s the problem.
Now, the question here is why are we lacking that approach?? There are couple of reason I have for the. One is our owners have nothing to with the clubs they themselves might not be knowing how long they are around so they are just not bothered about it. As they don’t care what may happen to Manchester to long term, and it hurts to say but the second reason is Manager himself. As SAF clearly knows that he is here for long so he is taking the prudent view is he?? He just wants that no. 19 and 1 more CL that’s what the problem. He is ready to put everything on line the team, tradition, format, the values, culture and more importantly the fans. I mean when I think about those fans who spent 40-50 pounds to OT and watch those kids playing I really feel bad about them I mean we as fans deserve better. I am not even asking to change the team as whole but at least play what ever you have with right way the Man UTD way that’s all what I want as fan I hope I am unreasonable….
November 27th, 2009 at 6:57
@Grognard: I don’t know why but I have a feeling I am sounding more like GROGY than the ONKAR but that’s how I am feeling unfortunately. The thing that never wanted to which I feel I should make way is I want change. I want my owners to change, I want my players to be changed, I want my teams approached to be changed and most importantly I want my manager to be changed. In my life time as an United supporter I never thought I would say thise but I hope that this is Fergie’s last venture as a manager.
But then in such state of an affair who is the Right person. All the people here know that I am a fierce Jose supporter but this time I was thinking about the situation we are facing. I mean finances are in trouble, team is lacking balls to fight as well quality to impose them, there is no leadership on and off the pitch, there is no prudent approach which is required to run any organization, lack confidence, lack of clarity and what not. I mean don’t you think this description is souding more like DIPPERS than US. But sadly that is state of an affairs at Man UTD as well. I mean just think honestly since Glazers have taken over as owner what investment they have done in the team. Answer is NOTHING. I know NANI, Ando, OH all came the season Glazers took over but that was primarily from the Man UTD plc money and Glazers money. They have sold the best player in the world and bagged 80 mn and they have invested what in Berba and the trio this season. Is this what we deserve??? Hell NO. We deserve lot more. But, Glaziers are taking Man UTD on the same path that Gillet and Hicks have taken DIPPERS.
We are running at all time low as fans, as club and overall our intellectual and confidence is damaged to the lowest. So, which man can help us out of this? Is it JOSE?? Answer is HELL NO. No man can help Man UTD out of this. For that you need more than just a Man we need ‘THE KING’. Please bring in the KING ERIC back to club. He inspired us once to come out of doom period that lasted for 27 years he will do it again. He will make us believe in ourselves, he will make us do things right way, he will make Man UTD look like Man UTD and that’s what we want… ‘ALL HAIL KING’. Please come fast, we all need you….
November 27th, 2009 at 7:01
@Traverse: Players don’t usually come out and emphatically deny the accusations or rumors and then give reasons why they want to stay other than just being happy. I believe it when Vidic says he want to stay.
November 27th, 2009 at 7:02
@Jay wire: I don’t add them because they are not direct competition to us.
November 27th, 2009 at 7:07
@Onkar: And everything you just said just went in Fergie’s left ear and came out the right one. He doesn’t give a damn mate, trust me.
November 27th, 2009 at 7:14
@CraigMc:
You know that I was one those who stood up for this team. And make no mistake I still reaffirm that I am not to nervous from team’s point of view. But, SAF is the person who is giving me lot of the pain and discomfort. I mean, his tactics, his arrogance, his pre-match post-match interviews, no bother approach, his body language or lack of it everything is troubling me to large extent. He is giving every impression that there are many things there which are just not correct and lot of things are going behind the closed doors of OT and that’s what troubling me more than anything else. I mean it hurts to say bro, but we are going exactly on the same path of our hated neighbors ‘DIPPERS’. We had a great fun when they got knocked out of CL but, if things continue to run this way at OT then we may end up the same faith in coming 3-5 yrs.
I think we need follow the same slogan that won the election that ‘WE NEED CHANGE’. What more I would like to add is ‘WE NEED KING’, ‘ALL HAIL KING ERIC’. I really hope he will come in and things will change sooner rather than later for the betterment for the team.
November 27th, 2009 at 7:16
@Onkar: It’s official. Grognard has a son.. My baby boy Onkar. Love ya son.
You’re killing me mate because you sound just like me. I want the King to but not as manager. He has no experience as a manager. My first choice is Laurent Blanc and I would like it if he hired Cantona as his assistant. Let the King be an intern for a couple of years and then we shall see. Blanc is innovative, his players love him and respect him and he is young, energetic and has a great passion for the game. Above all he is personable and good with both fans and media and doesn’t act like a stuck up horse ass like Fergie does. The club needs new blood, new players new coaches new everything but still, none of it matters and none of it will mean a hill of beans difference unless we get rid of the owners. Hell if I had the money I’d put a hit out on them, that’s how much i despise the mother fuckers. Until they get the Hell out of Dodge, nothing will improve because they are presently holding the club by the throat and over a cliff. The y have to go for anything to get better.
November 27th, 2009 at 7:19
@Grognard: Thats the problem bro.. I know he doesn’t give a rat ass to what we say anymore. It was that it was my need to vent out I did. I know a simple thing that I don’t want to end up the faith of DIPPERS thats all. The day felt that I was actually happy to miss that match I left stranded and on the verge of crying (to be very honest) but if any day they will end up like DIPPERS did then it will literally kill me. I hate those fucking owners they are playing with the emotion and the loyalty of the fans… I wish I was staying at Manchester and could do something about it….But….
November 27th, 2009 at 7:50
@Grognard:
I would differ with you on one count. If we keep our owners aside and just as a part of hypothecation to get our heads sorted out.. I would like to say that I would rather have King as the Manager and then appoint either CQ (after WC2010) or OLE as assistance to provide those managerial and coaching things. I mean just that I want someone who can command respect, who gives rat ass about what his opponent thinks, who knows what Man UTD is all about, who will have instant support and respect from all fraternity like Players, coaches and Fans and what’s more who will be able to handle media like a pussy in his house. All these required qualities will give me only one Name and i.e. ‘KING ERIC’. As far as the technical part of the game is concerned for that we can use CQ (proven) or OLE (another ex-Mancunian favorite doing good job). And that why I said it has to be ERIC as manager and CQ/OLE (or suggest any other name as assistant).
November 27th, 2009 at 8:59
To All,
Did you see the news Dubai’s debt default shakes world,
it seems like the Sheik’s are running out of money for now, I don’t what all the people who were interested in the Sheik’s money must be thinking. I wonder what BITTERS are thinking at this point in time… They may not be there in the January Transfer Market….
November 27th, 2009 at 10:40
Wow, I post some halfway positive reviews of a team that lost 1-0 and I’m some kind of insider paid to spin? Interesting…
On Foster’s non-save: If the shot had not been deflected he was perfectly positioned. He’s been sh*t over the past few months, but he set himself at exactly the right moment for that shot, ie, timed it for when it would reach him. I agree other keepers would have saved it, anyone with a few inches on him would probably have been able to reach it because of their height. It was unlucky.
On Red Nev – I absolutely agree with Gary and wish the rest of the team had his desire and commitment. I look at Welbeck and wonder if he’s ever cleaned boots or worshipped the first team players in his life. He doesn’t show me commitment on the pitch and it’s such a shame.
On Fergie – I agree that he needs to start the hairdryer up again. Our team is complacent. I can forgive a lack of ability, but not lack of trying. Anderson was utterly awful Wednesday and deserves to be out doing laps, pushups, cleaning the f*cking goal posts and so forth until he realises how lucky he is to wear the shirt.
Fergie has admitted that he finds it hard to manage the superstar kids because of their agents and demands. Maybe he is out of touch a little bit. If he had a decent number 2, one who wasn’t like him, then they could play off of each other. Speaking of which, and how’s this for controversial, I think our new number two should be none other than Schteve Mclaren. He’s shown great maturity through his awful time with England, and has been developping himself since. Not as a number one, or a future number one or so forth, but as a number two again…
On breaking down defensive teams – clearly the harshest critics of Wednesday’s performance have never played a decent level of football, or have some strange red-tinted only watch the highlights view of history. 10 men behind the ball is almost impossible to break down, especially when you do it via build up play. There’s just not enough space. Which brings me to…
On our new posession obsession – the reason we worked so well with Ronaldo at his peak was because he was an outlet. You could ping the ball at the fastest, best jumping tall fella and there’s always a shot he’ll get it, control it and then we’re off. We’ve completely lost that outlet. And Wednesday was the most telling example of that.
That is my biggest worry at the moment. When Berbatov is not on the pitch we basically are forced to slow it down, and take 5 touches to move it up the pitch. That will not work against well drilled, defensive minded teams. We’re not stretching them at all. So it’s easy, just keep us in front of them, between the banks of 4 and 5 and we won’t amount to much.
When we’ve only got Rooney up front (or Rooney and Owen) we literally have no option for the midfield to look for. Either you play it into Rooney’s feet and he is therefore no longer leading the line, or you play it via the full backs to the wingers. Ruud, Saha, Ronaldo. They were our outlets. And now we have none. It’s a gaping, fundamenal f*ck up of the coaching staff. And until it’s fixed we’re going to continue to be a bit dull.
November 27th, 2009 at 11:04
@Beachryan: Agreed with all your sentiments in principle but, one. You quote and I paste that
“And until it’s fixed we’re going to continue to be a bit dull.”
Bit dull???? We are lot more just bit dull… We play awful (and I mean it from entertainment point of view and not from result point of view)….
November 27th, 2009 at 11:30
@Onkar: But we will beat Barca ….what a joke
November 27th, 2009 at 11:42
@Jay wire: I hope Real led by Ronaldo gives Barca a spanking they will never forget. They need to be brought back down to earth.
November 27th, 2009 at 11:48
@Aymen: Barca will win 3-1
November 27th, 2009 at 12:02
@Beachryan: Sounds good Beachy, but doesn’t account for a first half fuck up where we got thru their defence time after time, and had NO END PRODUCT. I am more worried about the inability when defences do close us down to find someone with a genious ability to split even the tightest defences with a killer thru ball, and the inability of our strikeforce who when so thru cannot if their lives depended on it find the net. I would say, and I stick by it, to all the Mickey Owen naysayers – that he can GET AWAY from the last man and does so time and time again, but seldom gets the right ball direct to his feet. The ball is either plinked a bit too forward of him and takes him out of position, or falls too short and the opportunity is lost. The right ball to Mickey and you will see continuously goals of the quality of the City winner for us. I do think like Grog said Mickey needs sometimes 2-3 such chances to get a goal, but I wonder if that is because he more often than not only gets the last half hour of games, and so it takes a while for him to get into the game level at that stage.
November 27th, 2009 at 12:06
@Onkar: What wonderful news – I really hope this is true and their money does run out, because perhaps then we can get back to football AS A SPORT and for ordinary fans again, instead of the rich pickers and hanger on-ers. Can’t see that happening though, but I pray
.
November 27th, 2009 at 12:10
@Owen: I still stand on what I said bro.. All the rant that I am having since morning is clearly about the way we play and not the results that we are getting. I am heavily complaining about the tactics and not results bro… I mean even if we would have won on Wednesday I would said all these things because what we are doing is we are going away from United way and that’s where the problem is.
Secondly, if Barca come to OT and we decide to park bus like we normally do in Europe against big clubs (and that’s where I have problem) we would be tough to break down and that’s one of the basis of argument. Just read what all I have said its about the way we produce the footy now a days and not the results we are producing….
November 27th, 2009 at 12:12
@Owen:
And if you don’t get my point just check this quote when I replied to Beachryan.
“Bit dull???? We are lot more just bit dull… We play awful (and I mean it from entertainment point of view and not from result point of view….)
Don’t jump on the gun matey….
November 27th, 2009 at 12:14
@CraigMc: I know, I wish it could have reverted to good old days… But yeah as you said just can’t happen….
November 27th, 2009 at 12:20
@Onkar: Fergie may have his faults Bro, but I think if we are going into economic downfall, like the monetary markets of the whole world seem to be on the verge regardless of what they are trying to tell us to re-assure us – then I think SAF is the best person to handle the ship thru this storm. I may complain about the teams bland BRAND of football in comparison with seasons past, and have a bloody good rant about tactics etc, but I could NEVER and I mean NEVER be an advocate of Fergie to GO. Like somebody says, we have no idea what is going on behind the scenes at OT, but something is and I am more concerned that SAF is getting so concerned about it all, whatever it is, that it affecting his exterior altogetherness, and he may just get up one day, and say fuck it – I’m off! I know SAF’s passion for Manchester United and his love and devotion for the club I love is every bit as much and MORE than mine. So no, I don’t want SAF to go. Yet even all the staff and the ex United pro’s are saying that things are worrying behind the scenes at OT. So yes, we are often ignorant in our assessments not being in the know as SAF is. Still, we needn’t apologise for what we see on the football field, and the fall in our very high standard of football par excellence.
November 27th, 2009 at 12:20
@CraigMc: Absolutely, for that matter any striker would need that many chances bro… Fair enough on Mickey’s point of view… The problem is he sees the spaces but the MF that he is playing with just don’t have quality to put the ball through. For me the only player who can so on our team sheet is BERBA. He has that vision and ability to find a pass. But, unfortunately Owen-Berba partnership is not used more often. If they play together for length of the period I am sure they will become a deadly duo but as usual TACTICS (or lack of it)…
November 27th, 2009 at 12:31
@CraigMc: I know bro… And I for one would never question his passion and commitment towards Man UTD. I mean the man has given 23 years of his life to the team and fans. But, the problem here is whatever is going on behind the scene at OT is definitely taming the GAFFER. And I can’t see gaffer such way, lost out on ideas and not sure on what to next…
Secondly, the problem I have with our system is in such economic meltdown only business model that survive is model which is built on the prudent approach and thats precisely why I used the Arsenal analogy. The approach they have adopted is so good and so prudent that even though in short run it may not give them SO CALLED trophies but in long run it will make sure that team is healthy and running well. But, that is what is lacking at Man UTD for me, obviously I blame those Fucking owners more than Fergie but, some time it gets me to point that it seems like GAFFER has resigned to the fate and thats not what we look upto Fergie fro isn’t it??? I mean we know him as shrewd person, angry, arrogant, hard as nut, and great man manager but, some how he is not putting any of these ability on show and that’s where the trouble is and thats why I feel that change is Imminent and sooner it will come the better it will.
Cause I would not like to see Last 24 months of SAF career is spoiling the sacrifice that he made in last 24 years for this team and for all of us…
So, whatever I said came out of respect and not out of rage mate.. I know how much it hurts to say all this… But…..
November 27th, 2009 at 12:35
@Traverse: I have ANSWERED your question OVER AND OVER Trav, you just aint seeing it mate! I said I want to WIN things, but I want to win with attacking supremacy and STYLE – end of. I hate standing on the terraces and being bored out of my fucking mind mate with toothless, pedestrian type football. That’s Italy’s philosophy mate. I could cope with it and not complain when it was introduced into our game for CL games, but now it has come into every game we play in the PL too – and NO I don’t accept that lightly. As for the kids, I have no problem with play 2 or 3 of the kids, and I go and watch them in the Carling cup etc. But a full team of kids and 2nd stringers in the CL games – NO NO NO. That enough of an answer for you Trav Bro?
November 27th, 2009 at 12:58
@CraigMc: But you hadn’t answered it. You complained you bought match tickets and saw Welbeck play instead of Rooney, so over and over to you counted as zero to me. You then answer it by saying you want both! There doesn’t seem to be the option to both. Arsenal play exciting attacking football. THEY’VE WON NOTHING FOR HALF A DECADE!
The options are nice football, or winning trophies. Of course everyone wants both, I want both, but it’s not possible in a league as physical as the Premiership. As soon as a team gets into Arsenal they crumble. The pretty football doesn’t always work against teams like Bolton, Blackburn, Hull, Stoke, Birmingham, Wigan or West Ham. That’s 42 points right there. If we have to play industrious football to get half of the points we need to win the league then so be it. I’d rather that than be second.
November 27th, 2009 at 13:02
Do you boys ever sleep????
November 27th, 2009 at 13:07
@Stephen: Man UTD is giving me sleepless nights…
November 27th, 2009 at 13:22
@Onkar: you sure? last time Grog(?) was saying our recent style of football can cure insomnia…
November 27th, 2009 at 13:30
@Grognard: No normally they come out and say ‘god only knows the future’
I think he comes out and deny them cause he is an honest guy and genuinely doesn’t know why people are saying it, and especially because it’s about his wife and not him!
We cant exactly jump at him with a contract now, cause everyone else’s agent will have stories about Madrid or Milan in the papers the next day and start demanding bigger pay deals. I’d imagine we’ll sit down and sort one out after January passes. He’s in no rush, we’re in no rush.
If I can see us selling any of our defenders I see Rio going off to Madrid, and if we can get £25mil for him I’d snap their hands off. Looks like we are going after Kajaer, and we’ve got Johnny Evans who is brilliant. I think we wouldn’t miss Rio that much.
November 27th, 2009 at 13:54
If there’s any chance whatsoever that Rio can cure his back problems I would hate us if we sold him. He’s far from old, he plays a position where maturity helps and he was our de facto captain for the last 2 season. Crazy talk.
Evans is fine, Vida is fine but Rio is our best defender, when fit, bar none.
November 27th, 2009 at 13:56
Lets face economic reality. We are trying to slash our wage bill and cover our debts. Vidic is our most economically valuable defender and can be sold for at least £20 million. He makes noises about being unsettled and if Barcelona or Real Madrid come in with a bid it will turn his head. I think it is a real possibility he will be sold this summer.
We have already lined up a 17 year old Cardiff defender for the January transfer window and seem to be eyeing up Kjaer who is young and promising.
We are a selling club now and if Barcelona or Real bid £20 million for Vidic I think we’d be forced to accept especially as his value will only go downhill and we cannot carry another player on a six figure weekly wage.
I am in total agreement with Craig. You should always field a team good enough to win, and that team was nowhere near good enough-second string squad players and raw, inexperienced and incredibly overrated youngsters.
Macheda and Welbeck need to go on loan NOW if they ever are to have a chance of breaking through. They are just not good enough right now and we do not have the luxury of non-performing strikers as we struggle for goals as it is, not to mention Foster’s inability to keep a clean sheet.
Anderson does ok in the first team when surrounded by better players but in a Carling Cup team he always sucks. As for Gibson he just sucks full stop. Obertan has promise but no end product. Park is next to useless except as a nuisance player to mark opposing wingers-and this wasn’t one of those games.
These are bad times for the club. We obviously face a financial squeeze and Im not convinced the crop of youths we currently have are up to the task. Lets hope all these 16 year olds we keep stealing are good enough because otherwise we are destined to become the next Liverpool….dominating for 20 years then falling by the wayside.
November 27th, 2009 at 14:23
I fucked two girls, tounge-kissed eight girls, licked three girls and nearly got blown by one girl last night, only for her dad to call while she was taking off my pants.
So, what did I miss?
November 27th, 2009 at 14:43
In the Mail we are to bid for Guti, if that happens I will put on a Liverpool shirt, hold up my lighter and sing “You’ll never walk alone”
November 27th, 2009 at 15:45
@AndyCR7:
November 27th, 2009 at 16:25
A reminder of the good times :
November 27th, 2009 at 16:28
Hrm, with link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0rmQYf8mrI&feature=player_embedded
November 27th, 2009 at 18:13
@Beachryan: dude, I’m shaking right now after just watching that video!!
That man is a frakken LEGEND!!! Please, can this guy come back to OT, even if not to play but to teach our strikers how to find the back of the net. That ineptitude is what cost us the besiktas game, even when all our first half play was sublime.
You gotta love the soundtrack too, just made me wanna cry tears of I don’t know what!! Ruud Van Nistelrooy, you Sir, are a LEGEND!!
November 27th, 2009 at 18:26
@Grognard: Darth Red Diablo must be seething in jealousy!
November 27th, 2009 at 18:34
@Traverse: I don’t think wer’e going to miss Rio’s laying that much, but tend to think he’s ne of the important voices in the dressing room and on the pitch.
I love Evans and he’s the best young defender in the world but he’s still not up to the level of either Rio or Vida at their peak. I hope his progress doesn’t stall and he does become world class.
Hope to see Corry follow in the footsteps of his brother too…
November 27th, 2009 at 18:37
@Beachryan: What I wouldn’t give to have him instead of Owen..
And he’s be happy to sit in the bench too I reckon. Everytime he’s talked about us it sounded like he genuinely regretted leaving…
November 27th, 2009 at 18:40
@NicoQB: Typing left handed in the dark and eating right hand = typos galore…
November 27th, 2009 at 18:44
@NicoQB: Now, when you say “miss rio’s laying”…
I feel Pique is the best young defender (if 22 is still considered young). The one quality that puts him ahead of Evans is his ability to bring the ball out of defence and pick a useful and usually penetrative pass. Put simply, he wouldn’t look out of place in midfield, his ball control, vision and passing range are very good. Evans unfortunately has been learning Vidic’s bad habit of aimlessly ‘lumping’ the ball forward; which is funny, as our forwards suck in the air!!
November 27th, 2009 at 18:51
@NicoQB: Agree mate!! Owen offers very little. Unless you put the ball exactly on his feet/head, he won’t score. Watching Ruud’s video, you can see Ruud created the goals as much himself as they were done for him. In other words, he made half and even no chances into goals. Incredible, simply the best finisher I’ve ever watched.
November 27th, 2009 at 18:53
@Beachryan: Rooney at 7:46…
November 27th, 2009 at 18:58
@NicoQB: yea saw that too please get that boy someone to play with.
November 27th, 2009 at 18:58
@Beachryan: Good post but I have to take exception to one comment you made. “On breaking down defensive teams – clearly the harshest critics of Wednesday’s performance have never played a decent level of football, or have some strange red-tinted only watch the highlights view of history. 10 men behind the ball is almost impossible to break down, especially when you do it via build up play. There’s just not enough space. Which brings me to…”
Are you kidding me? That’s a pretty agricultural way of looking at things. I may not have played the game much when I was young but I consider myself a strong well educated student of the game and I put my knowledge of the game it’s strategy and tactics up against anyones. I have watched the game 40 years with great attention to detail and with great passion. I have also been lucky enough to be exposed to the many different continental styles and and innovations in the game’s history in that 40 years like Total Football (aka the Dutch Whirl) and Catenaccio. I am more than aware of what is doable and what isn’t.
Our front line forwards are all very skilled players but the lack of service makes them very useless at times. Our midfield is completely inept at getting them the ball because nobody in our midfield possesses certain skill sets like finesse, vision and quick thinking. Therefore we lack the first touch component that many continental clubs use to break down stiff defenses. We are terrible at playing 1,2’s because of our poor passing at times but mostly because as a lazy and uninspired team, our movement off the ball is slow and not very alert. Nobody on this club other than Giggs on a good day is capable of a quality cross. Nani makes them for Portugal but it seems he forgets the skill when it comes to performing the duty for us. Height and good crossing can break down any defense. Good movement on crosses or corners and the ability to meet the ball not just at it’s highest possible point but on the run gives the ball power and momentum off the head. Instead, everyone in the box is static and most of the high balls are lobbed crosses that when they meet a static head, have very little power on them. Check out the marked improvement in Peter Crouch’s heading ever since Harry got him to move towards the ball rather than wait for it to reach him. Above all, other than Ryan Giggs, nobody on this club has ever heard of a chip or a lob pass that is ideal in breaking park the bus defenses. The Riquelme’s, Silva’s, Diego’s, Xavi’s and Iniesta’s of the world perform this type of pass all the time and it works like a charm especially as a one time first touch pass. So before you paint all critic with one brush, I’d suggest you think it over because you are not the only intelligent mind judging the game or the team.
Now to leave on a good note, I agree with everything else you wrote especially on the theory that Ronaldo was the perfect outlet. Yes he was and we no longer have that and it kills our counter attack completely
November 27th, 2009 at 18:59
Chelscum to sign KUN
November 27th, 2009 at 19:00
@Gabriel:
Rio does look so casual at times that you get the impression he wouldn’t say no to a lay about..
In Spain, Pique would be better than Evans, what with the slower pace of the game.
In the Premiership, I’m pretty sure Evans is the better defender, as pace, as well as toughness are very important attributes for a defender. Not sure Pique would have kicked Drogba the way Evans did,
But Pique has another quality that Evans doesn’t have is the knack to score on set pieces such as corners..
November 27th, 2009 at 19:03
@CraigMc: Actually, from what I have seen it seems Owen gets more chances when he enters as a substitute as opposed to starting. Whenever he starts he seems to be invisible for most of the match. Part of the blame is his but most of it is because he is usually starting a Carling Cup game with all the reserves and frankly when it comes to service, they are all muppets. The other problem is Fergie doesn’t use him as a sub properly. You cannot continually bring in a forward in the 80th minute and expect anything from him. Bring him in the 65th minute and give him close to a half hour to find his legs and get his chances. Ten minutes is hardly fair to judge any player on his contribution yet so many seem to want to.
November 27th, 2009 at 19:03
@Gabriel: Oh, now I geddit!!!
November 27th, 2009 at 19:06
@gator: My weeping smileys actually meant:
“Why can’t he do that nowadays?”
I still think he’s world class though!!!
November 27th, 2009 at 19:08
@CraigMc: As much as I think Fergie has reached the time to go, I still feel he must stay until the Glazer’s go. They are the ones who must go and new owners with deep pockets and a firm commitment to the club and what is best for the club and it’s legions of supporters is most important. I said this the other day, as much as I sometimes feel he should get the sack for his attitude and terrible tactics, he is a form of stability that is vital. Also, it doesn’t matter if it’s Mourinho, Capello, Guardiola or the reincarnation of Sir Matt, unless their is a change in the ownership of the club, all managers would be handcuffed and in turmoil trying to improve this club’s fortunes and on field product. The Glazer’s have made a royal mess of things and they need to be publicly flogged or privately whacked..
November 27th, 2009 at 19:12
@Gabriel: In a way he was too good for us!
He was so good that the other players resorted to a “get on the by line – cross the ball to Ruud” game plan that made us utterly predictable in his final year with us.
THere was a notable improvement in our overall play once he left. Still would love to see him back.
Someone please write a sincere letter to him and tell him how we still love him and not to sign for the scouse gits.
November 27th, 2009 at 19:12
@NicoQB:
ba dum dum ching!! 
November 27th, 2009 at 19:20
@NicoQB: he still does that hes just passing to berbatov instead
November 27th, 2009 at 19:22
@Traverse: Ajax in the 70’s, Bayern in the 70’s, AC Milan in the Gullet and van Basten age, Arsenal in the late 90’s and early par of this decade, Barcelona last year, Madrid during the di Stefan period as well as the Galacticos period and of course Manchester United through the 60’s under Sir Matt and over 20 of the past 22 year under Sir Alex have all played winning and highly attack oriented football. So I honestly do not see your point mate. Craig is 110% right. Go back into history and take a look at the number of teams that have won the league or the CL and you will see more attack oriented teams have won as opposed to defensive teams. No Bayern Munich, Ajax, Madrid or Barcelona team that has ever won the European Cup has won it with a defensive approach. 22 European Cups between those four clubs tells me you have your head up your you know what.
How many league championships since 1992 has United had? Eleven. 10 of those were won playing attacking and entertaining football. Wenger has won three. Even Blackburn was an attacking team when they won. Chelsea scored plenty of goals when they won although most of us would say they attacked but didn’t entertain. What team has ever won the league that didn’t entertain or attack well? Answer is NONE.
November 27th, 2009 at 19:25
@Traverse: True. i too would prefer we off loaded Rio before he is worth nothing. Kjaer is definitely on the list as is Rodwell. It would be a calamitous mistake to let Vidic go, and after losing Ronaldo it would be more than what many fans could stomach.
November 27th, 2009 at 19:26
@NicoQB: That’s what happens when you have a player that is that good and effective at scoring or playmaking. Just like what happened with Ronaldo, it is inevitable!! The play will eventually circle around that player. The sad thing is our team have gotten too familiar with that type of play, the give it to ‘Player X’ and wait for magic tactic. There is no off the ball movement in this current team; something I am surprised is not being addressed in training.
Ruud is 33 though, don’t think it was/is ever gonna happen, unfortunately. At least bring him back in a coaching capacity like they do at Tottenham with Les Ferdinand and Co. Defoe attributes his improved finishing on the coaching he receives from their ex-players turned coaches. Speaking of, why is Solksjear not showing our strikers how to finish??!
November 27th, 2009 at 19:27
@Beachryan: Yes but he still is getting up there and speaking as one who’s life has been ruined by a disabling back problem, that thing never leaves you and it only will get worse with age. Evans time has come and Rodwell or Kjaer look to be on their way (although i will believe when I see it) so I say sell him while you can still get something for him. I am really not big on having players over 30 slowing down the team.
November 27th, 2009 at 19:29
@Footy4Eddy: I really do not need to read that mate. Seriously.
November 27th, 2009 at 19:30
@Footy4Eddy: In other words, you were at home all alone pulling your pud, right?
November 27th, 2009 at 19:32
@Gabriel: Will you still look to him as a legend and love him so if he signs with Liverpool?
November 27th, 2009 at 19:33
@NicoQB: Red Diablo is dead to me. He betrayed me after I was trying to take over the club. He has no honor.
November 27th, 2009 at 19:35
@Grognard: Thinking of you bebe.
November 27th, 2009 at 19:40
@Grognard: Yup!!!
At the end of the day, the guy gave us sooooo much and joining one of our rivals is not enough to erase the memories. 
Unlike that little argie retard who thought he was better than he is. Could be warming the bench at Old Trafford, coming on for players the calibre of Rooney and Berb, instead he’s warming the bench at wastelands, coming on for the likes of Wright-philips and Petrov. Twunt!!
November 27th, 2009 at 19:54
@Gabriel:
@gator: Dribble past several players and end with a sublime chipped assist? No I don’t think Roo does it nowadays.
And don’t you dare make veiled remarks about King Berba!
He’s been performing very well this season. 
November 27th, 2009 at 20:08
@Footy4Eddy: You’re such a tease.
November 27th, 2009 at 20:10
@Gabriel: You should look at the case of one Paul Ince. The Guvner was loved by United fans but as soon as he went to Liverpool, he was dead to us all.
November 27th, 2009 at 20:22
@Grognard: Yeah, but I read he acted a twat and was overly taunting while he was there. Over-aggressively celebrating and kissing the scouse badge when he scored against us. No sign of respect as far as i’m concerned. He deserved the bile he received from his former worshippers. I think Denis law joined City and came back to United, yet he’s still considered a legend. Even Schmeichel went to City and no one really paints him in a bad light.
As hurt as I would be if Ruud went to Anfield, I know he had his best days for us and even he wouldn’t be able to save them from the shambles they are facing this season.
November 27th, 2009 at 20:23
@Footy4Eddy: Your missing a brain I’d say mate – your a SLAVE to your HORMONES – END OF! How much did you pay all those girls by the way?
.
November 27th, 2009 at 20:30
@Stephen: I know you don’t sleep Stephen with that gorgeous wife of yours keeping you up ALL NIGHT! You heard the song – ‘all night long, all night long?’. Well your living it in technicolour now mi man!
.
November 27th, 2009 at 20:31
@Traverse: Well that’s me Trav – I’m a conumdrum – you have to work out what I am saying
November 27th, 2009 at 20:33
@Traverse: Oh I buy the way mate – you can be sure I didn’t mention Rooney anywhere, and certainly I would rather Welbeck wasn’t one of the kids who played – ever! He’s not ready.
November 27th, 2009 at 21:08
@Grognard: For the Record…. I was only Groggy’s slave….. And Groggy is dead to me…. He has turned optimistic… Now the Doom and gloom belongs to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Buahahahahahahahahahahaha
Oh.. and Eid Mubarak….
November 27th, 2009 at 21:35
Business English 101:
How do you say “getting really stuck in” formal / business english?
Professional assignment shall we say…
November 27th, 2009 at 21:59
@NicoQB: im just sayin that berba and owen have been getting in positions similar to the ones rvn was converting from in that hl reel and… its not like rvn was doing something our strikers are not doing except converting he just had every keepers number and they couldnt stop him. Every keeper we come up against this season seems to have a monster game against us w/7 saves. why?
26 shots and nothing in the net v besiktas pitiful. id give macheda welly and owen for Pato.
November 27th, 2009 at 22:01
@NicoQB: to impose ones will on the game?
November 27th, 2009 at 22:02
Friday Night – should have guessed!
November 27th, 2009 at 22:11
@CraigMc: Pay?!
They should pay me. 
And for me being a slave to my hormones, whats wrong with having some fun? Im not with anyone at the moment, so why not enjoy myself? When its a party, its a party. You drink, you dance, you make out with hot girls.
November 27th, 2009 at 22:13
@Grognard: Apparantley I become such a charming lad when I am drunk… Not saying I aint when Im sober, just that I am more “Eddy” when I have drunk.
November 27th, 2009 at 22:27
@Darth Red Diablo: Eid Mubarek mate!
And for the record, you were my slave. And I was Grognards slave. Which means that if you belong to me, you also belong to Grog. How can he then your slave, it doesnt make sense…