Apr 07
Man Utd v Porto: Preview
It would be really incredible if I didn’t mention the name of one of Porto’s strikers; the Brazilian, Hulk. Porto are said to have a pretty good recent form, but I don’t suppose they are anywhere near the side that sneaked past us, few years ago.
Yesterday Ronaldo strutted out lines you’d think he could have even said backwards; “I am at the right club”, is about as obvious and politically correct as they can get, for now. We’ll revisit this speculation in a couple of weeks, or whenever the press start scraping the barrel for stories.
Fergie feels it will be hard to keep Macheda out and there’s a good chance the Italian will be on the bench today. Speaking of Macheda, anyone else find it disturbing that there is a raft of articles comparing him with absolute fooballing legends on the back of one moment of brilliance? I mean, in the Guardian there was an article comparing him with George Best! That’s hilariously ridiculous. Trust the media to big something up anticipating a gigantic fall. One hopes the staff at United keep the lad firmly grounded.
On the game, Rooney will return and so will Vida. Hopefully this will ensure we manage to keep our defensive end as tight as we can. For a start, it would be a welcome change to get through a game without conceding a goal. Rooney’s influence would give us more of an attacking threat than we’ve managed to witness in the first 70 minutes of the Villa game.
So at the back, I’d expect a back four of Evra, Evans, Vidic and O’Shea. Carrick would likely partner Giggs in the centre, and Ronaldo and Park could be on the wings. Up front, I suppose it would be Tevez and Rooney.
Prediction: 2-0 to United.
Related items from Red Rants:- Porto it is then…
- Man Utd v Stoke: Preview
- Man Utd v Everton: Preview
- Man Utd v Spurs match thread
- Rooney Out For A Month
Tags: Game Preview
April 7th, 2009 at 8:21
Im glad we played on Sunday. Pushing the game to Saturday would be easier if we would play with the exact same team tonight. But we wont, and I expect at least 5 changes to the side that played Villa. Vidic in for Neville, Scholes in for Fletcher, Park in for Nani, Rooney in for Giggs and even Macheda may start. Im not saying I think that will happen, but judging by the play of Carlos Tevez this last month, as well as his “head-tackle” on Sturday, he obviously isnt up for it right now. I would love it if he could prove me wrong with a good display tonight, but if I was the manager I would play either Welbeck or Kiko instead of Carlito. Thats just because I want to win tonight, scoring goals. I want at least one striker on te pitch tonight, not 6 midfielders! Cause we all know how Wazza plays…
Team prediction:
VDS
Sheasy Vidic Evans Evra
Ronaldo Carrick Scholes Park
Rooney Tevez
score prediction: Im gonna be optimistic on this one, because after watching some Porto games in Europe and Portugal, I really cant see how they are even better than West Brom! Hulk, Lucho and Lisandro are good players, but their chemistry is nothing more than terrible! So I will go for a 4-0 win to United, putting this tie to bed before its even halfway.
Ronaldo, Scholes, Vidic and Rooney to score.
April 7th, 2009 at 8:22
Great Cameo from the lad but dont wanna see him start tonight over Tevez.
Feel we should give the guy some bloody respect, he’s a world class international, with immense fight and determination.
Rooney and Tevez up top for me thanks,
Bring Kiko on if Tevez struggles to make an impact
Concentrate lads
April 7th, 2009 at 8:36
This big week continues. Hoping for a decent result, or at least one that won’t mean we’re under heaps of pressure for the next leg. We have to look to win, and not undersestimate Porto. I just hope to see some actual football, generally the portuguese teams that come to OT are a disgrace, diving, time wasting, feigning injuries for minutes at a time, making sly deliberate fouls – all the nastiness of hte modern game.
Early goal please. 3-1 to United…
April 7th, 2009 at 8:40
I reckon one of these games, Tevez is gonna pull off a blinder,
and score a couple of goals, he definately has it in him,
and with Rooney back, who knows, the could get some chemistry happening.
at least 2 goals from us, doubt Porto will score easily, with Vidic back and Evans next to him
April 7th, 2009 at 8:42
@Beachryan: Ya i hope for that too, especially after such a weekend, Just Hope Vidic will bring stability and the aerial presence completely missed in last games.
I just hope Tevez finds his touch, fergie will surely appreciate his effort after coming back from moon.
Park will surely start and giggs will be rested, Midfield will be exciting as fletcher might be rested after such an effort he put in weekend. I still think his hussling made Villa commit few mistakes leading to second goal.
April 7th, 2009 at 9:05
@RedDevilEddy: Right now I think we all have to be a little more level headed about Macheda. Yes the lad is impressive but he is still only 17 and has had ten games only with the reserves. I would love to have him as a bench player who can be injected into a game late when we are tied or losing or if we just need some fire and spark. I would be very very surprised if he were to start instead of Tevez tomorrow. Carlito and Rooney play well together and Tevez should be more recovered from his jet lag and fatigue. The game has me very nervous as I am not sure which United team will show up. The Villa win was great but it also showed that we are not yet over this slump in bad form and that we need to get our heads screwed on better. I am predicting a disappointing 2-1 win tomorrow with that away goal looming large in the back of our minds. Hope I’m wrong.
April 7th, 2009 at 9:09
@Natzca: Ya according to me, Evans looks a better player when he has an aggressive defender like Vidic.
I don’t know why people don’t rate Flamini highly, but according to me, he was the best player in Arsenal for couple of seasons, and is unsettled in milan, can we get him??
April 7th, 2009 at 9:10
@Grognard: Ya it seems the case especially with evra being disappointing lately, Hope he gets to his best.
April 7th, 2009 at 9:11
@Grognard: I agree we need to give the lad time to develop, but also use him sensibly.
@despicable: I am a big fan of him, but if Hargo returns we really have no need for him.
April 7th, 2009 at 9:23
@Stephen: Ya not in presence of Hargo, But his presence is very similar to Hargo, he can have games where his team does excellent because of his screening job.
Also How is ferdinand, Is he in the squad for the tommorrows game?
April 7th, 2009 at 10:03
Huge game tonight, we really need to perform a lot better then we did against Villa on Sunday. I’m sure we will though.
I’m predicting a 2-0 victory. Rooney and Ronaldo on the scoresheet!
April 7th, 2009 at 10:25
I use to think hulk was their CB
April 7th, 2009 at 10:28
What is the problem with Evra? Honestly.. Is he burnt out? Cause he tires easily… I think there is a lot of load on our left side. Because the winger is usually log ji sung..
April 7th, 2009 at 10:40
i say we start fabio…
April 7th, 2009 at 10:58
Macheda’s dad was comparing him with Van Basten. They are already talking about moving to Italy in 2011 when his contract expires. His side are basking in the limelight that his ward’s goal has brought. I mean the kid comes on and scores one goal and they are already talking about moving to Italy.
April 7th, 2009 at 11:07
@Stephen Darwin: Just put £20 on Rooney 1st goal scorer, 9-2, buying money!!
April 7th, 2009 at 11:08
@ UnitedUnited – And hence the problem with the old foreign youth system. Rossi, Pique now Macheda – they (quite understandably) want to try out their favourite leagues. Fair play to them. Hopefully we can get some serious dosh for the lad…would be a pretty good investment imo!
Does anyone know if Anderson is fit? If so, given Fletchers effort Sunday, my team would be:
———–EVDS———–
-O’shea-Evans-Vida-Evra—-
—–Carrick-Ando/Fletch—
———-Scholes———-
–Ronaldo———-Park—-
———-Rooney———–
April 7th, 2009 at 11:11
@Beachryan: I believe he is out mate, very defensive I would say mate.
April 7th, 2009 at 11:15
@Stephen: Ya if a trio should play then it will be rooney,tevez and ronaldo. Also fletcher may not recover from the match so park can make the midfield three giving cover for scholes and carrick.
April 7th, 2009 at 11:17
@Beachryan: Wouldn’t it be bad to give neville a run out at RB, that would give us more balance and bit of rest to O’shea too.
April 7th, 2009 at 11:24
@ Despicable – Doubt Gary can manage a 90 after Sunday, otherwise I would completely agree
@ Stephen – It’s designed to let Scholes be a playmaker, rather than a DMF. Not sure how Porto line up – if they’re more of a 433 as I suspect, then perhaps we should use the wings more, scratch Fletcher and bring on Tevez up top with the Roon.
We shouldn’t underestimate Porto…oh and Rooney (shock) is one bookin gaway from missing the return leg.
April 7th, 2009 at 11:32
@Beachryan: Ya that is also right, What has happened to Rafael and Brown, they suddenly disappeared.
April 7th, 2009 at 11:34
@Beachryan: if this games goes till the end, then we should stop counting rooney for the return leg, as he is bound to get himself booked.
April 7th, 2009 at 11:34
@despicable: Injured matey.
@Beachryan: Interesting, like to see Carlos in for Park though or Nani.
April 7th, 2009 at 11:37
@Stephen: Ya but tevez might be dead tired to start. Also refael was supposed to be out for 3 weeks still it has been a month .
April 7th, 2009 at 11:37
I’m a united fan,but I just don’t think tevez scores enough to be worth 30 mill,flecture is poor and verbs is our worst signing in years
April 7th, 2009 at 11:38
@Beachryan: Good! Lets score 4 goals, Rooney to get a yellow card so we don’t end up missing him for one of the arsenal games.
April 7th, 2009 at 11:38
@despicable: Brown is on a secret drugs ban.
April 7th, 2009 at 11:39
@despicable: But only with jet lag, he played the same as everyone else, on wednesday and now hopefully his body will be back to normal.
April 7th, 2009 at 11:51
@Traverse: Really…
April 7th, 2009 at 11:52
@Stephen: I know he will relish the chance to play again, he is such a character.
April 7th, 2009 at 12:15
@despicable: He wants to sign for us matey, which is understandable!
April 7th, 2009 at 12:17
@Stephen:
April 7th, 2009 at 12:34
“club right the at am I”
Don’t worry, just trying to check how hard it would be for Ronaldo to say it backwards.
April 7th, 2009 at 12:34
@Traverse:
April 7th, 2009 at 12:36
I think Macheda could start tonight, I really do. Tevez needs a break, he is human after all. I actually don’t want Macheda to start since I’d rather see his come on as sub and get the whole crowd buzzing again. We’re sure to get a goal or two then, whatever the score.
Welbeck and Rooney to start for me.
April 7th, 2009 at 12:50
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcJ8UgJnGok
April 7th, 2009 at 13:12
@despicable: Well, I read a report late last year saying that all premier league teams had started testing their players for recreational drugs, and exerting their own secret punishment / rehabilitation system to avoid even lengthier FA bans and the awful PR that comes with it, and that 2 premiership players were on secret drugs bans. Around this time, Wes Brown disappeared from the face of football (as did Newcastle’s Alan Smith), first it was his ankle, then it was a metatarsal and now it’s just listed as a foot injury. I could be wrong, but the timing of the two was suspicious. I think I’d rather this than he had a dodgy foot!
Regardless of whether I’m right or wrong we could do with him back. Last year was our best defensive team, and Wes was ever present.
April 7th, 2009 at 14:01
@antsBoy: I would be suprided to say the least if he did start, Carlos has played as much if not less then anyone else, only jet lag is the issue.
April 7th, 2009 at 15:28
@Grognard: I understand your point about a slump in form, but I think the villa game must be viewed in the context of the team that had to play. we were inevitably going to be off balance against a full strength villa bar Heskey that had their backs against the wall. Even with the weakened team, we resigned villa to counter attacking, when im sure they would have prefered a more direct approach, and i thought most of the chances they created were no better than the ones we managed to engineer. Generally speaking, they were the better team, but i dont think they dominated. More efficient in their use of the ball, but not dominant. We got lucky on a few offsides calls and were stretched, but i doubt anyone can seriously argue the dynamic would have been the same if we had Rooney, Vidic, Scholes, and park on the field.
And for those who felt sorry for neville, I thought his performance, under the circumstances, were admirable. That he was willing to risk embarrassment for the cause is in itself commendable. For my part, i thought he had a splendid second half, no less because it was his final surge, though he must have been exhausted, that got the ball down the field making the Macheda magic possible.
April 7th, 2009 at 15:28
@Stephen: Yes, but fatigue/jetlag can be a pretty major issue in this case right?
April 7th, 2009 at 15:30
@ Traverse – interesting…though i’ve seen Alan Smith play since then for Newcastle (briefly, and badly). I can’t work out where Wes has been, every now and then we see a picture from training, but he really has had a bad run on hte ole injury front
I still think a major reason we’re stalling is that John O’Shea isn’t a right back. He offers no overlap, no crossing and generally slows down any attack that we try to feed through him. That would be okay if he was a rock at the back, but he gets skinned at about the same rate I think I would by a decent winger. I know it’s just a temporary solution, but I really think we’re suffering because of it.
April 7th, 2009 at 15:56
@Beachryan: “He offers no overlap, no crossing and generally slows down any attack” sounds like your describing evra!
April 7th, 2009 at 16:09
@Grognard: If I had to choose three days ago I would with no doubt pick Tevez and Rooney up front against Porto. But now I think otherwise. First of all, Tevez seems tired and out of sorts. He tackled with his fucking head!
He seems slower, doesnt have any vision whatsoever, his positioning is woeful, and to be frankly I didnt see him have a single shot during the Villa game. He spent most of the day trying to win the ball back in midfield, or stay up front without any movement or will. And when Tevez plays without no will, he is just as useful as Oshea up front. He has been terrible lately, and I have been one of those craving for him to get more chances. But against Villa, Liverpool and Fulham he spent a total of 200 minutes on the pitch without getting to a single chance! And for a striker, that is an incredibly long time. I like Tevez, but I think Fergie should follow the advice you and all others want him to do. Forget that Kiko is 17, or has just played 30 minutes of senior football. Forget that Tevez has very little time to show he is worth anything. Forget that we are playing Inter. Its time we should look at them as two different players. One player became man of the match and scored the winning goal in just 30 minutes, and injected some much needed pace and energy into our team. Then there is a striker who played nearly 85 minutes without getting to a single chance, wasted simple passes, didnt position himself in any scoring areas, and who tried to tackle a ball with his head. Is it hard to choose? 
Still, because we play Porto I wouldnt start Macheda. I would start Welbeck. Its not that I dont like Tevez, because I do, but this is a must win game where we need to score some goals to be safe for the return leg AWAY. Playing Tevez would be a defensive choice, or in the worst case like having only 10 men on the field. I know Macheda is young, so I wouldnt start him in a Champions League quarter-final either. But Welbeck, I would choose. Even though he is young, he is really good. Ive seen enough of him to say that he can work well with Rooney, as he goes on runs that Rooney will see with his good vision. Danny is a good finisher, and has played in some important games for us earlier. I would start him, but its unlikely because Fergie will go for experience tonight.
April 7th, 2009 at 16:23
@RedDevilEddy: “forget that we’re playing inter”
April 7th, 2009 at 16:34
@RedDevilEddy: Welbeck, while blooming, is a hit or miss striker. Great eye for goal and makes good runs, but he can also become anonymous quickly and his balance and control are at times suspect. re: the carling cup final, a game which also calls into question whether he is ready for the big ocassions. I would start with Tevez because i think he works well off Rooney. His performance at Villa was a function of being the lone striker which is neither a role he prefers or is used to as well as jet lag and fatigue. You cannot discount the synergistic effect of those variables. Yes, he was woeful, but this is the perfect opportunity for him to come good. For his esteem, he needs to start, give him at least 60 mins and then bring on welbeck or macheda based on the demands of the game.
April 7th, 2009 at 16:43
@Dan: But thats Evra off the Boil, not JOS’ best case scenario…
April 7th, 2009 at 17:15
@Dan:
Yeah, meant to write Champions League or Porto, but since I couldnt decide I chose neither- Inter. 
April 7th, 2009 at 17:18
@Roge9: You are right. I wouldnt like to play Welbeck in a game of this mangitude, because I think he is far from being the kind of striker we need for this game. Like you said he can be very inconsistent, he is weak and his balance isnt the greatest. I just think judging by Carlitos latest performances and the need for playing a striker with hunger next to Rooney, I wouldnt choose Tevez tonight. Its not that I WANT Welbeck to start, its just that I dont WANT Tevez to start. Just for the est of the team… I hope he proves me wrong though, because I would be realy surprised if Fergie went for another strike partnership than Roovez.
April 7th, 2009 at 17:19
I don’t think we’ll play Giggs after his 90 minutes on Sunday. The first comment had the same team that i picked as well.
I hope we can go out there and perform, score a couple of goals. I’d be more than happy with a nice 2-0
April 7th, 2009 at 17:20
@antsBoy: Same here mate!
April 7th, 2009 at 17:24
@Nick: Giggs is too old and has played too many games this season to play two full 90 minutes in a row. Im sad Anderson is injured, as we are playing his former team. He would have liked to play agaisnt Porto, maybe he could even have scored his first goal for us! I can say in all honesty that their defense is terrible, and if we dont score tonight I really wont understand how we can score at all on “We-Park-The-Bus-Everywhere” Sunderland on Saturday. Unfortunately I think Scholes will play, unfortunately because I think he has been our worst midfielder this season, because Fergie always goes for experience in Europe. I would start with Carrick-Fletcher, play Scholes on Saturday where we will get lots of room. But all my instincts tell me Scholes and Carrick will form the midfield.
April 7th, 2009 at 17:27
I see the O Shea bashing has started early today!?!?:roll:
April 7th, 2009 at 17:36
@Roge9: Fair enough. I even made the point in my post game review that not much should have been expected from the team because of the makeshift lineup but little was shown anyway that pointed to an end of the slump and malaise the team was in. At least not until the last 15 minutes of the game. I still feel Villa had a lot to do with us waking up and playing well then. They didn’t just park the bus, the backed it into the garage.
I am worried today but not overly so. We have gone into a big CL fixture before in bad form and have come up with a great performance. Hopefully we will show our quality today because Porto on paper should have no chance against us. But paper blows away easily in the wind and catches fire easily. In other words, paper is worthless. Good luck to the lads and here’s hoping the Portuguese connection that plays, shows their pride and delivers the goods.
April 7th, 2009 at 17:46
@RedDevilEddy: Sorry mate but I disagree. I start Tevez because the player is a good player with class and pride and because he has experience in this environment where the other two don’t. Tevez is ver capable of scoring a brace in a game like this because he has in the past. Yes this season has been a struggle but when played back to back, he usually responds after a poor performance.
Welbeck has shown in the past that he is not up for the real pressure cooker games. He folds up and disappears. A great young player with loads of potewntial but not yet ready for prime time. Macheda I actually would have more confidence in because of his amazing debut and tidiness with the ball and because he showed ice water ran through his veins at crunch time. But still, I use him like the player he is being compared to, Ole Gunnar Solksjaer. I use him as a super sub who comes in to give the team a boost of energy, youth and enthusiasm as well as to score a goal when we most need it.
He is young and his head seems to be screwed on straight, but we can’t let him him believe that he is a prime time player yet. He still has a lot to learn and much more to accomplish before that kind of faith and responsibility is thrust upon his shoulders. We need to be patient and smart in how we use him. And yet, Fergie knows best and he is closer to the situation than we are. I never expected him to show so much faith in Rafael yet he did. Forward is a position I for one am willing to take more chance with youth than a defender is. So Fergie might also be willing to play Macheda vs Porto because he really believes in the lad.
April 7th, 2009 at 17:49
I loooove European nights
Hoping Fergie really goes for this one. All the chat has indicated he will be letting the boys of their leashes. Feels like its been ages since we had the first leg of a CL match at home, should give us a different mentality.
What I would like to see, in order of preference:
1. A clean sheet – we need it, as a team.
2. Rooney to remain on the pitch – not too much to ask?
3. A good, attacking team performance
4. A win.
5. A big win.
April 7th, 2009 at 17:53
@phoenix red: Poor John O’Shea. The lad is a warrior for us, does whatever is asked of him, shows great versatility, never complains and shows unparalleled loyalty, and all he gets is slagged by supporters who treat him like he is some world class player who is playing well below his capabilities. NEWSFLASH. O’Shea is a role player, a bench player who when called upon usually exceeds expectations and plays his heart out for the club. We should be kissing the ground he walks on because without his versatility and pretty competent if unspectacular play, we may have been in worse shit this season. Lets show the lad some appreciation and respect for the role he plays and for his ability to show up every week and cover for somebody else.
April 7th, 2009 at 17:56
Im not worried about our form coming into this game… Thanks to the Villa result we should have gotten a huge confident boost. We didnt play well, but in the last 15 minutes I saw something from United that I havent seen in a very long time: United firing on all sylinders, giving a fuck about defense and just concentrating on scoring a goal. That made me delighted, and the goal was just the icing on the cake. And we played without Rooney, Anderson, Vidic, Rafael, Rio, Berbatov and Scholes, with a real makeshift defense, with only one striker( who just came from Mars), our worst winger this season( Sorry Craig
) and believe it or not, we played against the team in 5th place who got a good rest and without any injured players. I am not worried about us playing “bad”, because if we had played masterly without any difficulties I would say we had been inhuman and did the most amazing thing in world football since the 7-1 win agaisnt Roma. But instead of playing amazing, not conceding any goals and cruising in to victory, we fought hard, made up for our mistakes and won in the most dramatic fashion, a win that wont make us careless and over-confident, but who will give us the spirit to fight on for the rest of the season. Because its United we are talking about, a team managed by Sir Alex Ferguson. I am sure that win will do wonders for us, and I hope it springs us on for the rest of the season. BELIEVE!!! 
April 7th, 2009 at 17:56
@Beachryan: What I would like to see.
1. A clean sheet.
2. At least two goals scored by us
3. Rooney benched
4. Macheda starting (won’t happen)
5. Carrick play a great attack oriented game
6. No more mental gaffs and poor ball watching marking by our defenders
7. Patrice Evra to wake the fuck up.
April 7th, 2009 at 18:06
@ Gronard – Why bench the roon? We need him to hit form right now. As for O’Shea – love the lad, think he’s a model pro, true United through and through but should just be a bit part player. I don’t blame him for what he is, not his fault, I blame us for not having someone better playing at RB. If that makes sense.
And yeah, big one for Evra. He was playing out of his skin just a couple months ago, can’t work out what happened! Watching him stand completely still as the ball floated to Agbonlahor…sad stuff…
April 7th, 2009 at 18:06
@Grognard: Oshea has been our hero lots of times. He was one of our best players in 2002/03, the winning goal against Liverpool in 2007, started our comeback against Everton the same season, and he has been a loyal servant since he started. Which other player would play 8 seasons in a row without being a regular in a team, being 4th choice in most positions, going unnoticed in most games, and doing what the least players would choose right now – medals over money. I admire Oshea, even though I dont think he is United quality. Still, its players like him that wins you trophies! “Here`s Johnny!”
April 7th, 2009 at 18:18
@Beachryan: I have made my feeling on Rooney very clear over the last few weeks. He gets benched until he can come up to the manager face him and tell him he’s finally grown up. Until then, he sits. That’s life in my perfect world. And on the chance Rio goes to the Boss today and says he’s ready to go, I say, Great, take a seat at the end of the bench, because you’re not playing. Then he might know what his priorities should be.
April 7th, 2009 at 18:18
Rafa thinks fergie is scared of him! Clown…
April 7th, 2009 at 18:22
@RedDevilEddy: This term “United Quality” really bugs me. I agree that all starters be “United Quality” To expect a bench warmer to be that is ridiculous. As far as I’m concerned he is”United Quality” because of his desire, commitment, attitude and ability to fit in wherever he is asked. How can I expect a bench player to be world class? Because that is what United quality really means, world class.
April 7th, 2009 at 18:23
@AndyCR7: Rafa is a fat ex waiter who should seek out psychiatric help and who will get that help after the season is over and he has crashed both in the League and the Champions League. Jes, and dats a fact.
April 7th, 2009 at 18:26
Rooney will run the game today. Watching him play for England last week he is hungry for a game. The red card will have hurt him, and he’ll put on a masterclass today. We always give out one absolute cuffing a season, and we’re yet to do it this one. Here’s hoping it’s tonight.
April 7th, 2009 at 18:28
@AndyCR7: Rafa thinks a lot of things when he’s had his pre-team-selection dose of ecstacy!
April 7th, 2009 at 18:31
@Traverse: I hope that one absolute cuffing comes in the Champions League final mate!!
April 7th, 2009 at 18:32
I have to admit I howled in laughter when I read this little bit from the Guardian’s rumor bin.
“Finally, Manchester City’s chief scout, YouTube, has suddenly recommended Wolfsburg man of the moment, Grafite.”
Thats so funny but probably oh so true.
April 7th, 2009 at 18:39
Anyone with team news??
April 7th, 2009 at 18:39
@Traverse: No mate, the red card hurt us and his team. For him it was a game off to pull his pud. He better have a great game today or else I’ll sick the Craigster on him.
April 7th, 2009 at 18:41
Rafa:http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/apr/07/rafael-benitez-ferguson-champions-league
April 7th, 2009 at 18:46
hulk will crush us…..
April 7th, 2009 at 18:48
EVDS
oshea vidic evans evra
flecther carrick scholes
ronaldo rooney park
~
April 7th, 2009 at 18:48
Tevez giggs and macheda on the bench…
April 7th, 2009 at 18:52
team above is corrrect.
subs : Foster, Nev, Giggs, Nani, Tevez, Macheda, Eckersley
I worry that we seem to be playing 4-5-1 at home in a game we need to win by a couple of clear goals.
April 7th, 2009 at 18:55
@Grognard: I fail to see how it hurt us that much… There was 1 min left in the Fulham game, and thanks to Rooney being missing Macheda got his chance, and his goal has lifted us in a way which will have had more affect than if it were Rooney or Tevez who’d done it. Also, hopefully he’s got some of his anger out of his system
April 7th, 2009 at 19:04
@Traverse: Is your given name Sherlock?
@Traverse: For Rooney himself, he has no anger issues. HE wasquoted several times as not seeing what the fuss about his temper was all about, claiming he was “always in control”.
April 7th, 2009 at 19:17
On that note, I’ve just seen on ITV4 a look at inside Valencia’s stadium ahead of the Arsenal game. The door to the referees room is made of heavy steel, and there are deep stud marks in it. Stud marks left by Wayne when he got sent off for clapping the ref there, and decided to kick the door in. They’ve kept it as a ’scar of honour’ that we did not beat them.
April 7th, 2009 at 19:23
Words from the boss.. Tevez is knackered, unwise to play him. Best option is Rooney central striker with 3 midfielders, so it’s definitely 4-3-3 not 4-5-1. Park as a striker? Surely in this formation Nani is the attacking option. COME ON UNITED.
April 7th, 2009 at 19:23
1845: TEAMS Man Utd v Porto
Man Utd: Van der Sar, O’Shea, Vidic, Evans, Evra, Fletcher, Carrick, Scholes, Ronaldo, Rooney, Park. Subs: Foster, Neville, Eckersley, Giggs, Nani, Tevez, Macheda
Not an entirely surprising selection. Pretty defensive yes-it is the sort of set up Id expect for an away game, but playing the first leg at home you have to be careful not to concede an away goal. The bodies in midfield will also help us control possession and with Rooney and Ronaldo we always have a chance of scoring, and if not there is Tevez on the bench and even Macheda if things get desperate.
I predict a comfortable 2-0 win with goals from Ronaldo and Rooney.
April 7th, 2009 at 19:44
I got 115/1 on United winning 3-1, Vidic first goal, hee hee.
Stuck a quid on it.
April 7th, 2009 at 19:45
I cannot believe in the home leg of a critical tie we are playing with a lone forward up front. ?????
April 7th, 2009 at 19:48
I told you hulk is deadly, what a shot
April 7th, 2009 at 19:48
fucking hell, great
April 7th, 2009 at 19:53
oh no
April 7th, 2009 at 19:53
Fuck off. Evra was sleeping. Evans imagining players, park hasn’t controlled the ball once. We’re boned.
why aren’t we 4 4 2? They play 4-3-3 all the time. we play it never. stupid move.
April 7th, 2009 at 19:53
bloody nonsense defending
April 7th, 2009 at 19:54
that has to be the most unimaginative right wing in the world, park and o’shea, OH LORD
April 7th, 2009 at 19:59
Grognard we went for the three in midfield to mirror Porto who are very strong in midfield.
But it is not working because we are not keeping possession and our defence is like a sieve.
We need to get a foothold in this game, and get our rhythm back and let our quality show.
April 7th, 2009 at 20:01
Haha we can relax. Not the first defensive error I see Porto making. They are strong and pacey in attack but we can rip this team apart on the counter attack. And if they sit back then we can control the game.
April 7th, 2009 at 20:01
WAZZZZA
April 7th, 2009 at 20:01
ROOOOOONEY
April 7th, 2009 at 20:02
The best pass of the game so far to a United forward is by Bruno Alvez. Thanks for the gift Nunce. We are playing like idiots. Can’t string two passes together. Fergie, get that fucking old useless fart Scholes off the pitch and put on Tevez.
April 7th, 2009 at 20:03
it’s barely a 4-3-3. 3 strikers eh? by playing 2 wingers? wonder where they are ending up with a 3 man centre midfield. in a 4-5-1, thats where.
April 7th, 2009 at 20:04
our defending is of nightmarish proportions. It’s not been this bad in 25 years.
April 7th, 2009 at 20:08
Park looks jetlagged. Take him off and put on Tevez. I think Tevez could do some damage if he hassles Porto’s defenders and forces them into more defensive mistakes.
April 7th, 2009 at 20:08
@Grognard: scholes and carrick always cancel each other out. why does no one else see this??!!! worst midfield combination ever!
April 7th, 2009 at 20:11
Jeez…looks like we’re in for another roller coaster ride. Hold on tight guys!!!
April 7th, 2009 at 20:13
how many free headers are we going to give rodriguez, and how many back passes does scholes want to do?
April 7th, 2009 at 20:21
Agreed Grognard, the defending is Conference standard. No leadership whatsoever. Why the f***k did Fergie let Rio go to play for England?
April 7th, 2009 at 20:27
Well we are finally settling down. Scholes in particular is starting to pull the strings. Put Tevez on for Park, Neville on for O’Shea and lets win this game.
April 7th, 2009 at 20:32
@colver: You mean why are 4 international defenders incapable of playing football?
4-4-2. Now. One of Fletcher/Carrick/Scholes off. Macheda/Tevez on.
April 7th, 2009 at 20:32
Park is useless
Scholes is useless
Evans is surprisingly useless
Evra is useless
O’Shea has been slightly useless
Carrick has been invisibly useless
Time to bring out the hairdryer and time to give some perms.
April 7th, 2009 at 20:32
scholes off macheda on
is what i say.
April 7th, 2009 at 20:33
Anybody suffering from cardiac problems here?
April 7th, 2009 at 20:35
when fletcher has become your best CM, you know your in a slump
April 7th, 2009 at 20:37
I could tell right from the moment I saw the lineups that we had it all wrong. Starting Park in a game where we need to score goals. Just dumb as nails. Starting and extra midfielder instead of Tevez at home? Dumb as nails.
I have seen some useless performances in my day but my God, this was worse than Liverpool or Fulham. If Porto had any luck they would be up 4-0. Rooney’s goal was a gift from the soccer gods who hate Portuguese football. Our only chance was a good header by Rooney. Other than that, Porto has owned our asses. Shocking and discouraging. Why we just sit and ball watch and why we carelessly give the ball up like a Coca Cola League team? No pressure on the forwards when we defend. Get in there and make a tackle instead of backing off and letting them have a crack or a cross. Just not aggressive enough. And I don’t blame Jonny Evans for the goal. Nope, I blame Rio Ferdinand. Thanks Rio, you selfish bastard.
April 7th, 2009 at 20:37
I am just speechless. What could have happened to our great players. I have never seen us spanked like this and totally dominated on our ground for some time. I mean it’s 1:1, but we are just super lucky. What a pathetic display from everyone on the field. Can this be fixed, I don’t know. Too many passengers on the field who can’t control a simple pass. Not sure what else to say.
April 7th, 2009 at 20:39
Two changes have to be made at halftime. Giggs in for Scholes and either Tevez or Nani in for Park. Don’t wait 20 minutes to make the move Fergie. We need to score 2 goals at least in this second half to feel more secure going to Portugal.
April 7th, 2009 at 20:39
WTF is happening to United? Why are they trying to emulate a school girl team? By looking at the team, you would think they are all kicking a football for the first time…..The passing has been at its worst ever level….The dedfence looks amateaurish, Ronaldo looks as if he’s on drugs and Park is still in Korea. Rooney hasnt gotten the ball to do anything…
April 7th, 2009 at 20:40
Really, really glad we drew Porto. Imagine us defending like this against Barcelona
April 7th, 2009 at 20:41
@Traverse: Fletcher has been our best player. Scholes has been a joke and Carrick is invisible.
April 7th, 2009 at 20:42
Has this been the WORST defensive display by us this season? I think so.
Everybody bar Rooney and to a certain extent Ronaldo has been Shite. Horrible. Ghastly. Fuckall.
April 7th, 2009 at 20:42
Oh My God – we are fucking Jelly on a plate. Park on his arse everytime he gets anywhere near the box
. We haven’t got one player who can cross a decent fucking ball into the area, where the opposition seem to get great crosses into our area every time. Where the FUCK is our MF? Oh I forgot, we haven’t got one. This is not a game for slow players, because the opposition is like speedy gonzalez. We dont seem to have a player with any authority or command on the pitch. Could anybody explain to me why we can’t pass a ball and find a red shirt without any sort of consistency. Also why on earth can’t we take a throw in and find a red shirt. Porto are giving us a fottball passing game lesson here. I am sorry, but we are FAR to slow in MF, and nothing ON THE WINGS, and I mean nothing. Am I being negative, I don’t think so – this is not an impressive showing so far – sorry. We can only hope there is some sort of improvement 2nd half, I mean we couldn’t get any worse really could we?
April 7th, 2009 at 20:42
WTF are we doing?!? Can’t pass, can’t defend, can’t clear, can’t head, can’t cross, can’t run and we concede corners like what? 10: 1? This is f**king ridiculous! If we have 11 substitutions, i suggest we use them all!
April 7th, 2009 at 20:43
Jeeez…
April 7th, 2009 at 20:43
Our midfield is a fucking joke….Fletch has been the best player this half, and that says a lot…Why on earth is Scholes playing,and someone pleease wake Carrick up………
April 7th, 2009 at 20:43
I’ve been one of Carrick’s most vocal supporters here. I’m sad to say that up till now he’s been shite once again. Scholes is woefully past it and never has our lack of a proper DM more been felt.
Macheda has just been an entertaining diversion for many fans (of which I form part) from more pressing problems. And they are so numerous I don’t know where to start. We have problems in:
i)Defence
ii)Midfield
iii)Attack
Not what a team competing for trophies want.
One more thing: Either the porto players are on steroids or Fergie screwed up by playing the aston villa game on sunday. Or both.
And sign the Porto manager as assistant to Fergie.
April 7th, 2009 at 20:44
@YDR: Agreed. Wake the funk up lads please! Shocking first half, and we’ve used up our good luck with that beauty of a back-pass early on. Some fire is needed, is it too soon and too early for Macheda?
April 7th, 2009 at 20:44
@colver: Managers have no power in keeping internationals from going to play for their country. It’s the individual players who have to ask the question, do I need to play against mediocre international sides or should I stay healthy and help my club who are going for a quintuple? It was incredibly selfish, especially after he was injured for the first international. He should never have risked it for the second. And although he too has played like shite lately, I seriously doubt he would have made that mistake that Evans made nor would his height and aerial game allow that ass monkey Rodriguez to seemingly get chance after chance on crosses.
April 7th, 2009 at 20:46
@colver: Park looks stoned and stupified. He’s fucking useless offensively and i would never have started him in the first leg at home. I would have started him on the road with a lead.
April 7th, 2009 at 20:46
Honestly the midfield is fucked up. I mean Scholes and Carrick are just pathetic. WTF is going on? They lost their nerves, literally. They better fucking improve.
April 7th, 2009 at 20:49
@Grognard: Your Rio bashing is sounding like you’re looking for excuses for a defence in tatters. For several months we’ve been the best defence in Europe when Rio was injured.
And no, I won’t continue any arguement with you as I know better.
April 7th, 2009 at 20:58
i wish berbatov was playing with all that space lol
April 7th, 2009 at 20:59
good : Park is off
bad : giggs, off all our speedy attacking wingers, is his replacement.
April 7th, 2009 at 21:04
Oh no. Please. not Neville now!!!
April 7th, 2009 at 21:11
Porto are no mugs. They’ve watched our last 3 games and KNOW we are there for the taking.
April 7th, 2009 at 21:13
YAY MORE OLD MEN!!! evans better be injured, but seriously, this is going to be a nervy 20 minutes
April 7th, 2009 at 21:22
fernando is just incredible, this is the type of midfielder we need in this team
April 7th, 2009 at 21:23
if we don’t win this match we aren’t going through. We’re not going to win.
April 7th, 2009 at 21:26
TEVEEEEEEEEEZ!!!
April 7th, 2009 at 21:27
CAAAAARRRRRLOSSSSSSSSSS!!!!
April 7th, 2009 at 21:27
YES THANK YOU TEVEZ
April 7th, 2009 at 21:27
Tevez!!!!!! Say what you want about the guy but he scores vital goals like no-one else! This is Lyon all over again.
April 7th, 2009 at 21:29
@colver: that’s when hes not tackling with his bloody head
April 7th, 2009 at 21:30
we are fucked
April 7th, 2009 at 21:31
Thanks Gary.
April 7th, 2009 at 21:31
great the defence strikes again
April 7th, 2009 at 21:31
Bloody hell. We should have sown up the match but conceded another. Now we have to win away from home.
April 7th, 2009 at 21:32
There’s still the Quadruple!!!!
April 7th, 2009 at 21:34
Is there any question that Sir alex needs to stick a fork in Gary?
April 7th, 2009 at 21:35
They’ve put Madrid on to confuse Ronaldo.
April 7th, 2009 at 21:35
There goes the season.
April 7th, 2009 at 21:36
@Traverse: how do you mean?
April 7th, 2009 at 21:39
Thank you red nev you twat!
jonny should of played through the pain barrier, if he had, we would of brought on macheda or nani.
April 7th, 2009 at 21:40
@themec: No double, treble or quad means shite without the Champions League.
April 7th, 2009 at 21:40
Why was Gary Neville subbed in? Was Johnny Evans injured? Same mistake as on the Carew goal. Now its almost impossible to win at the Estádio do Dragão. CL bye bye I guess.
April 7th, 2009 at 21:41
Fucking thanks to Gary Neville! We just can’t stop leaking goals with him around can we?
April 7th, 2009 at 21:41
Anyone else think Fergie has given up the ghost, because he sure looks like someone WHO DOESN’T BELIEVE TO ME. Dejected as fuck parked in the stands, and looking more and more like someone who has given up the ghost. I WILL say it again, we have no fucking midfield when we play against teams who have speed and excellent passing game. Ferdinand hang your head and shame, you let your team mates down playing for England when carrying an injury.
April 7th, 2009 at 21:43
what an abysmal performance
why are we playin so loosly??!!
we cant keep hold of the ball
no penetration
Park needs to be put down, useless cunt
Scholes looks a shaddow of his former self
G.nev is def on his last legs
Giggs plays too much n doesnt do enough
Ronaldo cant beat a man
Im shocked at the way were playin these days, such a lack of invention, mingin to watch….
2nd goal wasd lovely but how the fucl couldnt we hold on, WHAT THE FUCK IS UP WITH THE DEFENCE????
2give them 2 away goals is just unacceptable
fergie, WAKE THESE LADS THE FUCK UP, PLEASE
April 7th, 2009 at 21:45
Fucking 4 goals we’ve let him with him around. I dun fucking understand why the fuck is he on when we are supposed to be getting goals. You are too fucking short to be a CB and too fucking slow as a RB. I wonder what’s left for you.
April 7th, 2009 at 21:45
@Craig Mc: Your Rio bashing is sounding like you’re looking for excuses for a defence in tatters. For several months we’ve been the best defence in Europe when Rio was injured.
And no, I won’t continue any arguement with you as I know better.
April 7th, 2009 at 21:46
@themec:
Crocodole tears for me… 
April 7th, 2009 at 21:46
Bloody hell. We have gone into self-destruct mode. We cannot even defend a 2-1 lead with five minutes left at our home stadium. It is the same sort of pathetic ball watching that got us slaughtered at Milan.
The return fixture comes so quickly I don’t think we’ll get out of this slump in time even if we get Rio back. We have not been at all impressive away in Europe with the exception of the Inter game. I mean we drew with Aalborg, Celtic and Villareal. So I really do not fancy us.
How do we go from the best defence in Europe to this? You cannot really blame the personnel. That lineup played a lot in the games we went without conceding.
My only guess is tiredness? Where the F is Wes Brown? Ship off Wes Brown and buy a new central defender because we need some serious cover.
April 7th, 2009 at 21:47
scholes
neville
vds(even though it wasnt his fault today)
all need to retire.
Park needs to be sold, end off.
tevez, hes not worth it, he did nothing but run around up till his goal, which was his first shot in how many games? horrendously poor for a £30mil striker, thats poor for a £2mil striker!,then after his goal did nothing but run around in our own half.
April 7th, 2009 at 21:48
3 words
hand
fucking
ball
April 7th, 2009 at 21:48
& almost FORGOT, DICK OF THE DAY has to go to Oshea, where the fuck is wes brown? rafa?
we need a right back playin @ right back, not this stupid prick, his inability breaks down so much of our attackin play and he ALWAYS looses his man
fuck me
April 7th, 2009 at 21:48
Grognard. The way we have imploded of late I would be relieved if we just retained the league. This slump in form is utterly perplexing. We just look so TIRED. What’s going on?!
April 7th, 2009 at 21:49
Also just to put things in perspective Tevez did good to score, but that was Rooney genius, and remember we should have conceded a penalty due to the Tevez foul.
Definitely second best on the night.
Bring on Eckersley. There’s no way he can be any worse than Neville.
April 7th, 2009 at 21:49
nevils new job should be as an inforcer put him in to fuck someones world if they are too good. take his card and sub him back out or play with 10.
oh yea and hand fucking ball on the last goal. thanks ref and nev
April 7th, 2009 at 21:49
@realred: i doubt anyone cares what you think, fact is, he was our best defender today.
April 7th, 2009 at 21:51
@realred: Rafa and Brown are injured.
April 7th, 2009 at 21:51
Didn’t Lisandro play in the movie 300?
April 7th, 2009 at 21:52
@NicoQB: they were past the line when contact was made no pen on tev but the last goal was a hand ball.
April 7th, 2009 at 21:53
At this rate, i rather we get kicked out of Champions League and focus on the Premier League. I really can’t take another performance like this. I can’t bear to see us get whipped.
April 7th, 2009 at 21:54
@NicoQB: Nico no matter what you say, Rio PLAYED FOR ENGLAND carrying an injury, and to my mind that is fucking disgraceful. If you don’t like that comment tough, but its the truth.
April 7th, 2009 at 21:54
@Dan: We are not going to win the Champions League. We can’t beat Porto at home. We can’t see out 4 minutes in the quarter final of the Champions League. We didn’t deserve to win. Porto did. We are fucking lucky not to get beaten in our own back yard. We need to beat Porto at their place. No English team has done that, ever. Playing like we are playing now, and it’s not going to change in a week, we will get beat 3-0 like in Milan 2 years ago.
We achieved the amazing feet of having nobody upfront, nobody in midfield, and no defence all at the same time for about 70 minutes.
And you can all fuck off blaming Ferdinand for this, because it is not only misguided, incorrect and stupid, it’s completely irrelevant. He can’t play in 7 positions at once. If he was 7 people, then he could have made a difference, but there is no way in all holy hell a player back from injury could have single handedly won us that game.
If you want to look at any players, here are a list of players not good enough for our team.
O’Shea
Park
Fletcher
Neville
We don’t need ‘good all-rounders’ or ‘team players’ or a man who can ‘do a job anywhere’. We need GOOD REPLACEMENTS. None of these are good replacements. None of them would get on Liverpool/Chelsea/Arsenals bench, and they shouldn’t be on ours, let alone in our first team.
April 7th, 2009 at 21:54
@RedDevilEddy: Stop making match predictions please! every time you predict a big win you curse us. so I beg of you from here on out dont say shit before games.
April 7th, 2009 at 21:55
what’s happened to our defence.we are leaking goals like anything.why doesn’t gary neville retire..
April 7th, 2009 at 21:56
i thought we got out of the slump when we won vs villa , apparently not even close.
April 7th, 2009 at 21:57
@johnsom33: come on man that wasnt a jinx it was mistakes by a few and i count the ref for missing Mariano Gonzalez handball on the last goal as the biggest. fuuuuuuuuuuuk
April 7th, 2009 at 21:59
@themec: Its got nothing to do with tiredness mate, we just can’t play a passing game any more, NOT with any consistency anyway. Porto didn’t give the ball away hardly at all, when they lost possession it was due to our lads tackling, same can’t be said for us. There is no excuse for footballers who cannot consistently pass to each other. Also we have far to many players whose first touch is fucking abysmal. NEVERTHELESS we will DO them in their own stadium, I just got a feeling, because we are lucky gits
.
April 7th, 2009 at 22:04
@realred: @Dan: Agree Dan. O’shea. though limited in attack, did the job in defence.
I’m seriously thinking of going to play some computer games or watching a DVD to get my mind off of things.
Fergie really needs to get some serious thinking and take some radical decisions. We are a club in crisis and the Macheda goal was only a diversion from issues seriously in need of being addressed.
My radical decisions:
Carrick on the bench, James in – sounds crazy I know, but Carrick has been so shit recently. Watch the Nescastle reserves game and admire the two great assists James gave Kiko.
Neville – retirement.
Scholes – only playing against minnows.
Nani in – I know most people have been calling him shit but we seriously need some attacking flair
Macheda to play more games – even starting if necessary.
It is worrying to note that since the beginning of our slump, it has been the more “established” players who have been underperforming. Time to give them a serious wake up call and for me the only way to do so is by
drafting in some direct competition.
April 7th, 2009 at 22:04
our players look tired.but where is the squad depth we were boasting about.i think fergie has rotated more than rafa this season and still the players are tired and injured.I want all the medical staff and the physios at old trafford to be sacked..
April 7th, 2009 at 22:05
@Traverse: Nobody up front, nobody in MF and nobody up front for us for 70% of the game for us? And they still didn’t DO us as they should have done, had their chance but didn’t do it, considering we had no front, no MF and no defence for 70% time as you say –
. United history makers – here we come Porto – and LADY LUCK is travelling with us 
.
April 7th, 2009 at 22:08
This was another horrendous display from our players. We were totally outplayed and deserved nothing from this game. Even at 2:1 score I thought this was a disaster, and it is that much worse with 2:2. Scholes and Neville should not play a single game any more. SAF-s trust in them is unfounded, cause both of them are liabilities. Evra needs to take a long look at himself, cause this was another bad display for him. He was caught out of the position far too often and his attacking display was as bad. I will not blame Evans for the goal, even though it was his fault, but he is young and mistakes happen. O’Shea had some mistakes too, but by the end of the game he looked very assured. One might blame him for the second goal, but he is not a CD, so I will let this slide. Then we go to midfield and we see 2 very pathetic displays from Scholes and Carrick. Both of them were shit all around and as I said Scholes should retire and Carrick needs to get some balls. Fletch and Ronaldo weren’t much either but compare to the other two they were immense. Giggs and Park were also average but the disastrous play of our central pair made their job so much harder. I will also spare Rooney and Tevez from criticism, because even though they played with so many passengers on board, they were still able to score 2 goals. It was also a good game from VDS even though he had some shaky clearances but overall he saved us on several occasions and he can’t be blamed for either of the goals.
The improvement is required on all fronts. The defense should come 1st.
The whole season we straggled to put out our 1-st choice defense and while I am at it fuck England. The comes the central midfielders. This idiots should be told that if 3-4 people cover Ronaldo there must be a lot of open space somewhere, so fucking find that space and use it to create something and stop with impossible passes when we are having hard time getting the ball back. In the end of the day I am not a coach and SAF should look at their game and find the solution. During the whole season it was obvious that we were straggling, but I always hoped that the guys will come good, that it’s just temporary. Well the season is at it’s last stretch and nothing so far. Are they planning to come good during the preseason or something? It’s now or never so get your fucking act together.
April 7th, 2009 at 22:09
@johnsom33: I have to agree with Johnsom here.
Your match predictioning skill rival that of one Edson Arantes Pélé, which is not a compliment, be sure of that.
April 7th, 2009 at 22:11
@panks: Can’t sack the medics, its not down to them. You can sack the fitness coaches though with pleasure. Thing is though, what I don’t understand is how the fuck can we be tired, we meandered against the scouse gits, only got up speed for 25 minutes at Fulham, same against Villa etc etc etc. So how the fuck did we tire ourselves out? Fletcher and Vidic played out of their skin tonight, and were the only two great performers, but Fletch cant pass for shite once he has won the ball – and his close control is non existant. But we will win 1-0 in Porto, and lady luck will get the winner
.
April 7th, 2009 at 22:14
I don’t think we are very good at this SLOW PASSING game Fergie has adopted for us, to make us more Italiano
. Now the players are confused and are playing this sad type of game in the PL too.
April 7th, 2009 at 22:17
@Traverse: I partly agree with your reasoning of our “replacements”. These players are kept so as to deal with situations where our starters are injured. So if we have 10 out of 11 of our definitve starting 11 fit, one of them can come in and do the job. Right now, we don’t know even our starting eleven -a rarity for a man utd team- and those make-do players have grown to establish themselves as starters. Its fair to say that none of theses players would figure in a world eleven best players, so whats the need of them being our starters?
I think they shoukld be kept, but things should be made clear that they are not starters.
@Orez: Evra has slowly been improving his performaces, but he’s still a long way off the expected standards from him.
April 7th, 2009 at 22:19
Where are all the Berba haters now?
A few matches he’s injured now and we’re basically playing the worst football we’ve played all season.
April 7th, 2009 at 22:21
I hate to be a doom and gloom guy, but i honestly dont see us winning anything else this year. It reminds me of rangers last year who were in all competitions but ended up winning fuck all because they ran out of gas. I think that what ever happens this season win or lose, Fergie has to make some decisions he has been avoiding for awhile.
I promise you that this is not a knee jerk reaction, I have been thinking this for awhile. I know Im gonna get slated for this but it is time for Neville and scholes move on to the next phase of their careers. Giggs should NEVER be a started ever again, I dont mind him as a late substitute but he should no longer be in the rotation anymore.
I know these are all cult favorites, but they are hurting the team. We have a bunch of young, talented yet unproven kids that need games. No one believes that wellbeck and macheda are ready to step in and put the team on their backs, but they should definately be in the rotation. Nani and Anderson both need games. I know some of you dont think they are united quality, but what the fuck did we buy them for? Its sink or swim at United and these poor fellows arent alloed to leave the shallow end of the pool. If they are good enough it will show, if they arent good enough that will also show. but we will never know that until they get meaningful games consistently. I have seen enough of Anderson that in my opnion he is up to it. The jusry is still out for my man nani, but you guys already know how I feel about him so I wont waste your time going back over it.
I love Evra, but it looks to me like he lost his spark. I think he is getting complacent because his place is never in danger. I would give Fabio some run outs to make Evra wake up. There was a time when Evra was in the debate for best LB in the world, now you would be hard pressed to find someone willing to say he is the best back in france. We all know how well Rafael has done, and the general concensus is that Fabio is by far the better player.
Speaking of better players, why the fuck does neville continue to play? HE IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH! Fuck me Im angry right now. He has no pace anymore and his decision making is questionable to me. I know he is United thru and thur, but he just cant do it anymore.
Ill finish with this, alot of you are skeptical about the youngsters because they have only had flashes of brilliance. I will echo what Grog was saying about the Macheda performance sunday, Yes it was only one game and one goal, but what you need to focus on is how he carried himself thruough his time on the pitch. From the moment he came on he was focused on getting a goal, the pressure of putting on the United shirt clearly had zero effect on him. Go back and look at Manucho’s debut, he was clearly in awe out there. He went from the reserves to getting thru balls from Ronaldo and the other uber stars on United, he was slow to eveything because he wasnever in the game. so far this season when fergie handed rafael, wellbeck, macheda, evans and fabio chances they all seized it with both hands. I think it says alot about there temperament and fergie needs to gamble on them a bit more.
sorry for the rant…
April 7th, 2009 at 22:21
@NicoQB: Berba or no Berba, we’ve hardly played stellar football this season.
April 7th, 2009 at 22:29
@NicoQB: YEP, i agree completely.
@Red Ranter: we were called untouchable and invincible by rival fans and manager alike, when HE was in the team.
April 7th, 2009 at 22:30
@NicoQB: I am not a Berba hater or anything but you are gloating too soon. With him in the team we might have lost 0:2. We were shit when he played and it’s wasn’t due to him, so can we stop with this “one player cheerleading”(no insult intended).
April 7th, 2009 at 22:30
@Red Ranter: Yea, agree but until recently, everytime our playing sucked a bit, fingers everywhere (ok not everywhere but you get my drift) were pointing in Berba’s direction. Its just refreshing to see that even with him out of the squad we’ve been even worse.
Though I would have gladly accepted being wrong on this one.
April 7th, 2009 at 22:31
@johnsom33: You cant possibly blame me for this?!
All the lads turn us down, we play horrendous in defense, midfield and defense, they out play us in our own backyard. So many mistakes to point out that Im not even gonna bother, and you blame me for a jinx? 
For fucks sake, that is just stupid. But for you, I will stop. I dont believe in that fucking “jinx” crap, as its only a way to blame a bad result on someone. Did I “jinx” the team before Liverpool? Did I “jinx” the team before Fulham. Did I fuck! The play has been horrendous lately, and I was sure that this game would have seen a better performance by us after the confidence boost we should have got from the Villa game. But noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! We screw up all over the field, playing like shit and not even deserving to get a draw out of this. We were fucking lucky!!!
Okey then, I will stop making predictions.
Just for you, so you can sleep well at night. Just stop blaming others than the team, because its those that should get the blame, not a 16-year old kid who just WATCHES the games instead of PLAYING them!
April 7th, 2009 at 22:31
@Red Ranter: RR I agree, but we will still DO Porto on their patch, because remember Lady luck seems to be with us when we need to win, or make history.
April 7th, 2009 at 22:32
DAN- GO SIT ON A COCK YOU FAGGOT
didnt ask for ur or anyone else opinion , i was expressing mine.
Oshea aint good enough for our team. The quality of our defending and attacking always drops when he’s on the pitch
good night
April 7th, 2009 at 22:32
@NicoQB: Come on mate, making a prediction never hurt anybody.
But Ill stop for you guys, so you can sleep well at night.
April 7th, 2009 at 22:33
@RedDevilEddy: i think it was said in jest mate…
April 7th, 2009 at 22:34
@realred:
I dont know whats more stupid, your comment, or the fact that you think fergie should be sacked? hmmmm
April 7th, 2009 at 22:35
@Orez: Errrrr I understood Berba was our top scorer in Europe – oops
.
April 7th, 2009 at 22:35
@Orez: I tempered my argument. See following comment. I’m just gloating in the moment of being proved right. No way did Berba slow our game. The problem was more to do with the loss of form of Scholes and Carrick.
I’ve been saying it a few times on this blog. When Carrick plays well, the team follows suit. Unfortunately he’s been utter dross recently.
April 7th, 2009 at 22:36
@Dan: Its ariite, its just that Im getting annyed getting blamed for “jinxing” the team every time we get a bad result. Villareal, Arsenal, Chelsea, Zenit, Aalborg… Where to fuck were these “jinxes” when we beat Chelski 3-0, WBA 5-0, Shitty 1-0 and Stoke 5-0? Sure, blame me for the team playing shite and not managing to hold onto a lead for just 4 minutes…
April 7th, 2009 at 22:37
@RedDevilEddy: But it was said in jest, no ones blaming you…
April 7th, 2009 at 22:37
@johnsom33: Totally agree with you and I doubt that many will disagree or slate you. If someone can’t see that the old guard has no 1st team place in our team, then they are blind and they should see a doctor, however it’s not gonna happen, just because we are on the last stretch. SAF “gambled” cause he didn’t have any choice. The radical changes can’t happen now ,when we have our whole season at stake, the changes should have done in the middle of the season, but we had no breathers and even when we had the two most important changes(Nani and Andy) didn’t come through. Will they come through in the future? Hopefully, but now it’s not the time. In any way I believe the only real solution is the shake up of current players.
April 7th, 2009 at 22:37
@Dan: The observation that we were untouchable and invincible was unfortunate, knee jerk, and over the top — and was a measure of how over the top one could go in making their observations. Cue: the ridiculous claims that we were in for the quintuple. Those claims from rival fans and journalists have no bearing on our general play going forward all season which, as I said, has been less than stellar — and that is putting it mildly.
Berbatov’s absence does not explain the shocking disintegration of our defence, nor the inability of our midfield to hold the ball. It cannot be attributed to injuries because, during our record breaking defensive streak we chopped and changed our back four. The point about bringing up Berbatov now to explain the loss is all too convenient right now.
I’d say give me a game where we don’t concede a goal. Then we’ll talk about Berbatov or no Berbatov; seeing as we haven’t been crushing teams either with a deluge of goals whether the Bulgarian played or didn’t play.
April 7th, 2009 at 22:38
@realred: Oyy, what kind of comment is that?!
Dont think Dan did anything wrong, and I have to agree with him. Oshea is a wonderful player to have, and he has saved our asses lots of times. He is the kind of player that wins you leagues, so we shouldnt be critisising him too much. Im guilty of that myself, but Sheasy really is a good player. Like a potato, he can do most things… 
April 7th, 2009 at 22:38
In addition to my above comment, remember, I have been a Berbatov supporter, my contention is bringing up Berbatov right now is the wrong argument when the problem is elsewhere.
April 7th, 2009 at 22:40
@Red Ranter: But if we havent concede a goal, chances are we won that game, wouldnt that be to convenient for you?
it shouldnt be about when and when not we concede a goal, it should be about the results WITH berbatov compared to the ones without the Bulgarian.
April 7th, 2009 at 22:41
So things are not looking good, but we are NOT scouse fans, we are Man United, and we need to be United right now. We rally, cos win or lose, win or lose, we will still be on the booze, pissed out of our heads, chanting for the reds. We are certainly lagging, but we are not down and out yet. They think they have won it – BUT WE WILL DO THEM 1-0, history in the making
.
April 7th, 2009 at 22:42
@Red Ranter: thats precisely my point, our problem isnt berbatov, which many supporters seem to think is. its our shitty midfield and leaky defence.
April 7th, 2009 at 22:43
I have to excuse myself for slating Tevez before the game. Calling him all sorts of terrible things, slating him and saying Id rether start with Welbeck tonight… Forget that, he saved our asses today! Had it not been for his goal, Im sure we would have gone to Portugal needing to score at least 2 goals to get through. So thank you Carlito, more of the same please!
Still, WHAT THE FUCK was he doing sliding tackling Hulk in our area?!
Is he fucking mad or what?! Could have been costly, as I feel that was a definitive penalty. Do your business on the opposition part of the field, and you will be a better palyer! Cheers Carlito, now make us proud and score more goals! 
April 7th, 2009 at 22:43
@RedDevilEddy: Hey mate, I was joking and I think johnsom may have been too. I don’t believe in those jinks stuff. It just makes me cringe to think about how most of us were optimistic about the match before receiving a well needed hammer blow on our head back to the reality of our recent shitty performances.
A team rarely plays shit one week and turns on vintage stuff the week after. To go out of a slump, a team usually goes down to the nitty-gritty and sctrape out results until a semblance of confidence is gained.
Anyway, don’t take it too personally mate. Just a joke.
April 7th, 2009 at 22:44
@Craig Mc: Amen, bro! Lets cheer our boys on and show the world that we stand UNITED in good days and in bad days. We must BELIEVE!!!
April 7th, 2009 at 22:44
@NicoQB: “Where are all the Berba haters now?”
I think we all have bigger fish to fry right now. Berbatov is more like a symptom right now and not the root of the problem.
April 7th, 2009 at 22:44
@RedDevilEddy: the better question, is what was our STRIKER doing in OUR penalty area?
Yes dog, we want you in the box, but not ours
April 7th, 2009 at 22:45
@RedDevilEddy: I really hope you’re right but the real artisan of the goal was Rooney. I’d love it if super Carlos comes to save our season, but somehow I doubt it.
April 7th, 2009 at 22:45
@NicoQB: That’s exactly right. The central midfield is the engine room of any team and ours has been broken for quite some time. I would put some blame for this on SAF, cause I don’t think that the center should be ever rotated, but the reason is Hargo’s injury and Andy adaptation, so I understand why he was doing that.
@Craig Mc: As I already said I am not a hater of any player, I just don’t think that he would have scored with such a bad game from our midfielders.
April 7th, 2009 at 22:46
1 more thing-
if you look at their 2nd goal again, it was Oshea who got caught in no mans land. vidic was markin whoever came forward with the ball, Oshea was NOWHERE which made Gnev have to come away from his man @ the back post to try intercept the cross
it was oheas man who went up for the header with red nev.
April 7th, 2009 at 22:46
@Dan: No it wouldn’t be convenient. If we didn’t concede a goal, it meant our defence did their job well. So then obviously the argument worth debating would be our attack. How did we fare going forward, did we miss Berbatov considering we bossed the game defensively? Or did Tevez and Rooney do an adequate job. If the defence is fine then we could be in a position to debate the attack. Was our forward play making use of the chances we were getting. The Berbatov argument would make sense there. Even if we win 2-0 we should be discussing the chances we created and the pace of our build up of attacks. It’s less convenient to be discussing Berbatov on the back of a win, because we tend to be raised by the hysteria of winning. That is the right time to discuss about an attack when we are first constructing the attack. If anything, today, Berbatov would have hardly got service to get going because of a woeful midfield and a defence that was ball watching, bar Vidic.
At the moment though it hardly matters if we’ve got Tevez or Berbatov because we just seem to be leaking goals for fun. This is our goals against column in the last 4 games: 4,2,2,2. Says a lot really.
In short our 08/09 team has been setup on a strong defence and scoring just enough to win. Not the old SAF tradition of if you score 5 we’ll score 6.
April 7th, 2009 at 22:46
awww, has realred gone and cried himself to sleep?
April 7th, 2009 at 22:47
There is something wrong in this club right now. I don’t know about anybody else but Fergie has seemed downbeat for a while to me, watching impassively from the bench, sending Phelan to the touchline to bark his orders. He seems a little too nostalgic for the old guard as well. (By the way, if our squad is so deep then why do we now have to rely on the old boy Neville?)
Maybe HE is tired. It would be fair enough after 23 years at the helm. This is in no way a criticism of his
undoubted genius but after our second half performance I wonder if his hair dryer has finally conked out!
April 7th, 2009 at 22:47
@NicoQB: Dont worry mate, my comment may have come out more aggressive than I thought it would.
Im not angry in any way, or thinking about telling you to “fuck off” with your comments. Just thought it was wrong to blame me on behalf of this result, because I am very emotional when it comes to United. Believe me, you would not like to see my livingroom right now. 
TV smashed, remote is cut into 100 different pieces and my cat is crying because I screamed at it. 
April 7th, 2009 at 22:48
Anybody think Ronnie was a waste of space tonight? One thing he should have done though is taken the free kick Giggs blazed over. Since when was Giggs EVER any good at free kicks. Ronnie would have scored if he had taken it – I truly believe that.
April 7th, 2009 at 22:48
@Dan: Little unfortunate with the timing of that comment…
April 7th, 2009 at 22:49
@RedDevilEddy: How can you be SO CRUEL to your poor Cat? Shame on you Bro
.
April 7th, 2009 at 22:50
@Red Ranter: i dont agree, it should be results/goalscored with berba on the field compared to without him.
But i definitely see what you mean.
April 7th, 2009 at 22:50
@Craig Mc: I truly believe that if the ball had been passed to a free Rooney on 18 yards, in the perfect position, he would have scored that one. Oh well, what can you do about it?! Im only happy we didnt lose.
April 7th, 2009 at 22:50
@Craig Mc: Great comment man. tottaly agree with you.
@johnsom33: Lol. Well at least in all this chaos we have someone with a sense of humor, even if you didn’t meant it in that way, it was still funny.
@Dan: and another good one.
It really helps to talk to you guys
April 7th, 2009 at 22:50
@RedDevilEddy: Take a few steps away from the computer and breath in and out,maybe even give your girl a call
bottom line is you need to relax, nobody honestly thinks your the blame for us performing badly.
April 7th, 2009 at 22:50
@Dan: I just added a few more lines to my comment in case you replied before that showed up.
April 7th, 2009 at 22:50
@RedDevilEddy:
April 7th, 2009 at 22:52
@Craig Mc:
It was wearing a G. Neville 2 shirt. 
April 7th, 2009 at 22:52
@Red Ranter: @Dan:@johnsom33: We all agree. Me and Dan just wanted a belated told-you-so we were right. Those debates about Berba whether he slowed down our game now seem insignificant compared to the plight we are now in.
But the point was that the arguments against Berba -at least most of them – brought up at the time have been proved wrong.
April 7th, 2009 at 22:52
@themec: Yeah that’s what I said, he does seem very distant and aloof from things. I don’t think he can quite work out what is happening to the team. How can he? At the end of the day, for whatever reason, his players are NOT performing.
April 7th, 2009 at 22:53
@RedDevilEddy: It would have been better wearing a CRASH HELMET
.
April 7th, 2009 at 22:54
@johnsom33: Chill mate, Im not angry. Like I said earlier, that comment came out angrier that I actually am. Im litterally smiling right now!
I didnt meen to have a go at you that way, sorry if I did.
April 7th, 2009 at 22:55
@Craig Mc:
April 7th, 2009 at 22:56
@Red Ranter: i agree with your last 2 paragraphs though.
Seriously, where was the energy tonight? carrick and scholes are as slow as good ****, park brings energy, but no end product, which makes his energy redundant
, we cant rely on ronaldo all the time, that would make dippers! we need energy in midfield, not upfront Mr Dog.
April 7th, 2009 at 22:56
@NicoQB: And I contend that this is not the time for an “I told you so” moment. It’s the wrong argument to make when the problem lay elsewhere.
April 7th, 2009 at 22:56
@NicoQB:
April 7th, 2009 at 22:56
nEITHER were stupid danny boy
Fergie shouldnt be sacked, he should retire
ofcourse the club wont sack the big man, he should just retire, after this season AS FAR AS IM CONCERNED
U GOT A PROBLEM WIT THAT NOW?
& besides, who are you to tell me nobody cares bout my original opinion on Oshea??!
u think u have that much insight that you can tell what all 200 of us think?
Away to your box of Dils……Bender
April 7th, 2009 at 22:58
@Craig Mc: I bet if Ronaldo took the free kick he would have prolly blazed it over too, and people would be yelling at him and wondering why giggs didnt take it. I am a big fan of the Ronnie, but I orefer Hargo and giggs over him for free kicks at that distance.
April 7th, 2009 at 22:58
@RedDevilEddy: Did you seriously do that?
April 7th, 2009 at 22:59
Also, Realred and Dan. Stop bitching about and get down to actual construction of arguments. This thing you’ve got between the both of you is not getting anywhere.
April 7th, 2009 at 23:01
OK, I would expect that right about now everybody is just wondering what kind of venom the Grognard is going to spew and who is going to receive the WOG award. Well let me start of by surprising many of you and say that if there is any team that is capable of going into Porto and winning, it is us. In fact, as much as logic and history tells us differently, I think that we will go to Porto and snatch the game 1-0. Because by that time I expect the hairdryer treatment to have worked it’s magic and that Fergie will wake the fuck up and play the right tactics and lineup.
This game was a calamity of errors. A joke and an embarrassment that should have ended far worse for us than it did. For three weeks now we have been wondering what has gone wrong with the team? Ten goals against in 4 matches and a defense and overall team that seems completely confused and lacking in focus. Well I really have watched these games over and over and i have marked down the errors and close calls that have cost us or almost cost us. It comes down to two factor that are the sole reason for our poor play. First off it’s our lack of concentration or focus and secondly it has been the absolutely horrible and misdirected fullback play of players like Evra, Neville and to a lesser degree O’Shea. Our fullbacks are not only getting caught up field a lot, but they are jogging back when they should be sprinting and they are ball watching an awful lot rather than manning the zonal responsibilities.
Evra is the man I am especially going to lean on even though Neville was the fool that fucked it up for us tonight. Evra has been a total ass clown ever since he has come back from his four game suspension. I don’t know if he is carrying an injury or if he has just lost it, but gone is his pace, his concentration and his ability to defend with pressure. In fact, he is culprit number one when it comes to jogging back, ball watching and above all, vacating his zone and area and cutting inside to perform his imitation Of Nemanja Vidic. WTF is with that? I see him hanging around more and more between the pipes and not on the flanks. Meanwhile teams are overlapping us and getting width and spreading us out because of that. People will blame Neville for the last goal and he should take the brunt of the blame, but somebody let the ball get to him because he was nowhere in sight.
I am sick and fucking tired of Evra’s poor play and I for one am demanding the debut of Fabio. So what if Fabio isn’t great defensively, neither is Evra anymore. At least Fabio does something constructive with the ball. Evra works an overlap or dribbles forward into an ideal position only to let his pass at the end end up as a shit serving waste of time. The man has no finished product, and frankly, he never has.
Now let me have my hands at Gary Neville’s throat. What the fuck were you thinking you stupid fucking twat?
The worst defender in the San Marino B Division would have done a better job than that. You don’t vacate your man to watch somebody else’s. Ball watching and lack of concentration is one thing for a Jonny Evans, but for a 15 year veteran it’s inexcusable. Do us all a favor and retire ASAP you overrated and useless clown. And take Scholes with you. I am so sick and tired of seeing the Ginger Snorefest come out every game and jog and walk his way to absolutely nothing. He is slow, and he is pointless. Retire you old man. You are older than your age and I’m sure that ginger head of yours is hair dye because you look like a 60 year old man out there.
To Michael Carrick, when will you take the bull by the horns and truly make your claim and solidify your position with this club? Why is it every time you play alongside the walking sloth machine Scholes do you completely disappear? Our central midfield is amazing. I don’t know how they do this but it is amazing. I have never seen a central midfield duo that can do this before. Play so far back on the attacking end of the game yet be nowhere in sight when our defenders need midfielders to track back and defend. How do they do that? The space and freedom the Porto midfield had was frightening. Only Fletcher did his job and even he was only average.
JS Park, it’s not your fault that Alex Ferguson is stupid enough to start you in the home leg of a must win tie. You are a zero in terms of attacking forcefulness and offensive talent. You are completely useless in the attacking end of the field. But please JS KRAP, tell me one thing? If you are so useless offensively, why were you a no show on the defensive end of things? Why was Porto continually able to bring the ball down the right side and and get crosses or passes in while you were caught time after time ball watching? This ball watching thing is epidemic in proportion which leads me to one conclusion. This team is not just physically tired, they are mentally wasted, Knackered, pooped.
Carlos Tevez, I knew you would score a goal when you came on and I want you to do one thing at the end of the season. Leave. Yes leave. Why? Because anyone who gives his heart and soul and shows loyalty to the team despite being shit upon by the Boss deserves to stick it to his employer and go somewhere where his style of football and his work ethic will be appreciated and respected. Can you imagine how much worse things would have been had sloth boy Berbatov played in this game?
Finally to Fergie. Yes great man, you have really lost it. You have become a coward in your old age and you show the opponents you face far too much respect and have allowed us to play into their coaching strategies far too often for my liking. Where has the mojo of this team gone? Where is the arrogance, the confidence and the belief that we can score 4 against anyone gone? Why are we playing a home tie worried about giving up an away goal and not playing it in a fashion that is designed to defeat the opponent 5-1? Why have you become a royal Scottish Pussy?
Your decision to bring in Gary Neville in a 1-1- tie at home is the lowest you have gotten all year. What a bonehead move. Like Neville will offer better defense than Evans. And weren’t you proven to be masterful. 1-1 and rather than stick both Tevez and Macheda out there and go for the win, you put on Tevez and GARY FUCKING NEVILLE.
Why didn’t you give us some width by putting Nani in? All game you were limiting the team to one tactic which was to cross the ball in to the box yet you never had the smarts to start the best crosser of the ball we have on the team. Sorry but that was a numb nuts thing to do. Park over Nani when you want to use our height and aerial supremacy in the box? WHAT A FUCKING JOKE. Craig, drive to Manchester right now and clobber the boss right on his swollen red snoz for both of us.
Yes I am pissed off and I have a right to be. This post is for all those who are as pissed off as I am and who share the same feelings on what is wrong with the team. For those of you who don’t agree and who want to be positive…..SOD OFF!
April 7th, 2009 at 23:02
@Red Ranter: I know, I know, you’re right! But then when will I be able to make my point?
April 7th, 2009 at 23:02
@realred: Well yes, i do have a problem with that. Go to your address bar and type in W-I-K-I-P-E-D-I-A, with out the dashes(i feel i have to spell it out to you, judging by your spelling, lets just say you’re not an english teacher) then type in A-L-E-X F-E-R-G-U-S-O-N and read up on why he shouldnt be sacked or retire.
I hope this helps my academically challenged friend
April 7th, 2009 at 23:02
@Traverse: Arsenal drew 0-0 with Milan at home last year in the CL and needed to go to the San Siro and win, where no English team had ever won. They won 2-0 in the end.
Even using our own team as an example…Man Utd v Juventus, semi-final ‘99. We drew 1-1 at OT in the 1st leg with Giggsy saving our necks in the last minute….we all know what happened in the 2nd leg in Turin though!
The point I’m trying to make is that United are more than capable of going to Porto and administering a dose of reality to the Portuguese team, as long as the lads TURN UP on the night. Class tells at the end of the day, and I still fully expect us to progress even if we have to do it the hard way, as we are a far superior team to Porto. Otherwise we deserve to win feck all, least of all the Champions League.
April 7th, 2009 at 23:03
@realred: As many people already stated O’shea is an all around player, who would never play, if no one is injured, but he is called he does ok job and that’s as far as one can hope. No 1st class player will be happy with a bench.
On SAF retiring I will not call you names, but I will say that you have a very short memory. Wasn’t it last year that we won a double? We are having a mass deep in form, which is hardly his fault and he is the right man to take us out of it.
April 7th, 2009 at 23:03
@Red Ranter: As you wish, im off to bed anyway.
April 7th, 2009 at 23:03
I gotta give credit to Porto. They came to Old Trafford wanting to score goals and win, and in true “old-fashioned” United style they came with the “attack is the best form of defense” mentality. Kudos to them, and I wish Fergie may learn something from this. If he thinks Barca are just gonna let us play our game, then he really has drunk too much wine during the years! Bayern, Liverpool, Arsenal and Barca, all class sides will not give us a moment of rest and have a go at us. Liverpool did it, Villa did it, and for them it paid off. They scored a total of 6 goals against us at our ground, and now Porto came with the same spirit and added 2 more conceded goals to that list. Its getting frustrating watching us getting owned at our pitch, because we are used to watch us blow teams open without any difficulty. And the worst thing is that I feel its not something we cant do anythign with. Because against Fulham, Liverpool, Villa and now Porto, we proved that we could play real attacking football when we want to. That begs the question, why doesnt our team want to play like this? Its getting frustrating, and I cant help but wonder…
Mistake of the day: Picking Paul Scholes. I know some people may blame Evans for the frist goal, or Ronaldo for losing the ball in our field, or maybe eve have a go at Oshea for not marking properly on the last goal. But I think the most fatal error today was picking Paul Scholes. For such a high tempo game he didnt have time to pick his passes, so he made many mistakes and backpasses. Really stupid selection by Fergie, and we played better when he went out… If Anderson is back for the second leg, there is no doubt in my mind who should partner Carrick. We could have countered Porto to shreads tonight, but didnt thanks to slow Scholes. Ginger out, Andy in is the recipe for success in Portugal. BELIEVE!!!
April 7th, 2009 at 23:05
@Grognard: Fucking hell, that was a bloody LOOONG post, even by your standards! I’ll read that when I have a bit more time…just skim-reading the previous comments on this thread at the moment.
April 7th, 2009 at 23:07
I just heard that Fergie has signed four 60yrs old Geriatrics for our MF, because they move FASTER than Legends Scholesy, Red Nev, Giggsy and Carrick, and they are far more mobile. He signed them on with promise to double their £100 a week national pensions
.
April 7th, 2009 at 23:09
Didn’t appreciate Dans attempt to belittle my previous comment RR,
Hence the abuse.
Unless Dan has close “relationships” with members of this forum that i dont know about, i suggest he avoids trying to speak on behalf of everyone!
April 7th, 2009 at 23:09
@RedDevilEddy: Andy also used to play for Porto didnt he? I’m sure he could have given us some background info on his ex-team before tonights game.
April 7th, 2009 at 23:10
@Grognard: I find most of the post a fair enough assessment, if I get past the superlatives that’s expected of a rant. But to answer one of your points, Evans had to be subbed off because of a groin injury. And given the way our midfield were overrun, a back three would have been risky business.
April 7th, 2009 at 23:10
@RedDevilEddy: I give Tevez credit for that play because he was the only one who was aggressive in our end and trying to win the ball at any time in the whole game. At least he had a pulse.
April 7th, 2009 at 23:12
@realred: I don’t know who started it, and I haven’t scrolled up to identify the root of the problem, but I’d appreciate it if the both of you just called it quits for now. Or another suggestion from me would be for both of you not to address each other for the next few days. I’m pretty sure you’d both be happy, at present, in not talking to each other for sometime.
April 7th, 2009 at 23:13
@RedDevilEddy: No, I say let them fucking have it. Scream at them until they can’t take it any more. Perhaps then and only then will they fucking wake up. Then we can cheer them up. What needs to happen right now is not consoling them and patting them on the back. No what needs to happen now is bring out the hairdryer and set it to scorch. Kick their asses and make them realize that going through the motions and believing all their invincible hype is making them soft and useless. And for the umpteenth time, thanks a lot Rio.
April 7th, 2009 at 23:14
@Grognard: I have zero problems with anything you siad I am 100% behind you. I want to point out to things. 1. You stole my thought on Tevez, he needs to leave. He is like a loyal hound dog who always come back to his master even though he is neglected and ignored. But each time he is called upon he doesnt sulk. Fergie should be ashamed of the way he has taken advantage of Tevez loayalty and love for the club.
2. I was going mental when he brought Neville on. he offers us nothing going foward and in case fergie hasnt noticed it, Neville offers us even less in defense.
April 7th, 2009 at 23:18
Now when I saw Gary Neville come on in the second half I thought what the fuck is Fergie playing at????? I was expecting a far more attacking substitution, especially with the game poised at 1-1 and needing to get a healthy lead to take to Portugal, and he brings on a slow washed up RB! God I was expecting Nani or someone to come on, and half-expecting Kiko Macheda to get a few minutes towards the end if things weren’t going our way. The team played shite right from the very beginning, needlessly giving the ball away so cheaply, and I could see we would be VERY fortunate to win, but I think Fergie also boobed tonight with the ill-timed introduction of Neville, though I am NOT using him as a scapegoat.
April 7th, 2009 at 23:21
Fergies obsession with ball retention has killed our teams creative drive. players who are adventures and take chances are not played. Guys like scholes are preffered because they dont give the ball away, but thats only because he only passes the ball backwards no a days. Tim Vickery of the BBC once said that he thinks the “passing completion” stat is ovverated because it doesnt prove anything. anybody making safe passes all game will have a great percentage but his passes dont help the team. Nani is slated because he gives the ball away so much, but atleast he is trying to go foward.
SPeaking about going foward, wouldnt it be nice if we actually tried it once and awhile? I swear everytimewe are in “attack” its always 1 or 2 red shirts surrounded by opposition. Ronaldo and Tevez get blamed because there attacks come to nothing, but the truth is there just isnt help for them up front.
April 7th, 2009 at 23:23
@Craig Mc: It’s not easy when you have a muppet to consult with.
Conversation between Fergie and Phelan after game;
Fergie – “Jeez Mike what the Hell is wrong with them out there?
Phelan – “We’re playing poorly Boss.”
Fergie – “No shit Sherlock but can you figure out why?”
Phelan – “Duh! Because we ain’t scorin goals Boss and because they are.”
Phelan – “I have an idea Boss. Why don’t we try to score more goals?”
Fergie – “Just remember to unplug my toilet after the game. Nuggets keep popping up.”
Phelan – “You got it Boss, that’s what I’m here for. I’ll also help the ladies with the laundry because they often mix the whites with the colors.”
Fergie – “That’s why I value you so much Mik, you are always one step ahead of me. Oh and make sure you hide the expensive wine next time Mourinho shows up.” “With you, I know we will shake this slump because you are thinking like a true #1. Now kiss my ass and fuck off for christ sake.”
April 7th, 2009 at 23:25
hahhahahah- if only you knew what my profession in fact was Danny boy…!!
Just coz im not a sad cunt who feels the need to spell everythin 100%properly… can you not understand what im saying or what?
maybe ur the english teacher, getin paid £12,000 a yr? is that why u act the way u do?!!
N for the record, iknow Fergies credentials,, iv followed his career since he was @ Aberdeen ta very much..
Fergie has built this squad expertly, But its my opinion that he cant take them much further.
they clearly need some extra motivation which they seem to be lacking these days.
you may not want to admit it mate but with old age, Fergie has lost some of that fire in his belly and were seing the negative affects, directly, in the form & attitude of the players.
A new coach, would look at things with less bias / favouritism.
..Thats whats holding this team back.
April 7th, 2009 at 23:25
@johnsom33: You pay Ronaldo the big money for a moment like that. To have Giggs take it was a dumb decision.
April 7th, 2009 at 23:28
@RedDevilEddy: Fuck Porto mate. Porto should give credit to Fergie for allowing a donkey to out manage him in a Champions League quarterfinal. Mourinho refers to the guy as a donkey who has worked his jack ass off for 30 years with the hope he would one day become a horse. Obviously Mourinho is not big fan of him. Perhaps it’s Fergie he shouldn’t be a fan of.
April 7th, 2009 at 23:30
Many players are up fro the WOG award today but there can be no other candidate but Sir Alex Ferguson. Asleep at the wheel tonight.
April 7th, 2009 at 23:32
@Nino: You can either read quick and meaningless articles in a magazine, or you can read a large but highly enriching book.
Personally speaking with all the bias I can muster, I think it’s a good read. Give it a crack. 
April 7th, 2009 at 23:36
Grog – I enjoyed reading your post, and agree with much of it. If Rio and now Evans are out with groin strains, then we have problems for the sunderland game, and for the return leg in Lisbon. Best and deepest squad we have ever had my arse. Every other club in the prem is looking at our performances now, and FEEL that they can kick our arse. They are all out to consolidate our misery, because it has always been Man United against the world. We are hated with a fierce hatred, and anybody who beats us, it is like they won the fucking world cup. They can’t get over beating Man United, it is all they ever talk about for years. It pumps teams up to high heaven, like they have climbed Mount Everest and stuck their winners flag 60 feet above the peak
. So everyone wants to get in on the act. I thought we had come thru with the Villa thriller on Sunday, but guess not. We have been rank bad for weeks now. So I have to ask this question, ARE WE really as good as Fergie thinks we are with the players we have got. I cannot understand why our MF need for an enforcer and controller has not been seen or addressed. We seem to have very lightweight players, easily pushed off the ball. I still think we will do it in Lisbon if and its a very bif IF, Fergie picks the right team. I think ALL the Portuguese should play, because latins thrive in the sunshine on their own patch, and we need someone who can get the crosses into the box. Not run the flanks all feckin game and no end product, as happened with Evra and O’Shea.
April 7th, 2009 at 23:36
@Red Ranter: No at that point Evans should suck it up or go get a quick tape job and play because the substitution should never have been wasted on a defensive player. Another example of my North American roots where athletes play with pain and even broken bones. Footballers are such pussies. Sorry but they are. Hell, I played for nothing and sacrificed my body out there on the football (US version) and the hockey rink all the time with serious injuries. You man up and suck it up. 20 minutes left in the game mate and Porto playing deeper and deeper. And as it turned out, Neville was a big help.
April 7th, 2009 at 23:37
Grog mate he’s been sleeping all season
April 7th, 2009 at 23:43
With all the hurly burly we forgot to name the MOTM.
Rooney, if noone noticed. 1 goal, 1 assist and nearly a peach of a second.
Bye all. I’m off for now.
April 7th, 2009 at 23:44
@johnsom33: Truthfully mate, without my words seeming like arrogance, I cannot see why anyone would disagree with what I have said. I wasn’t just spouting off from anger. I have a good sense and understanding of the game and I can see when things are screwed up and why. What upsets me is that our manager and his chief muppet don’t.
April 7th, 2009 at 23:45
@johnsom33: Mate, ball retention was not the reason we lost today. Frankly, we couldn’t string three passes in a row to save our lives.
April 7th, 2009 at 23:49
@Craig Mc: Not playing Nani today against his countrymen was a mistake. Especially since our main tactic was to cross the ball into the box. I’m surprised you aren’t burning up over that fact.
April 7th, 2009 at 23:49
@realred: I’m with you on that.
April 7th, 2009 at 23:51
@NicoQB: Today’s not a day you concentrate on the Man of the Match. Today is the kind of day that the Wrath of Grognard award (aka WAG) is lovingly handed to the worthy recipient. But instead of handing it to Sir Alex Ferguson, I’d rather throw it at him. Old comatose fart!
April 7th, 2009 at 23:52
Like I said in an earlier comment, I still BELIEVE that we will do it. But I also have a nasty feeling about it too…this tie has shades of Bayer Leverkusen in 2002 about it! Unfancied team from outside of the Big 3 cartel (England, Spain, Italy) comes to Old Trafford and takes advantage of a complete defensive shambles from the home side, taking NOT ONE but TWO well-deserved away goals with them. The only difference is that this current United side is far superior to the 2002 team, and so I will continue to BELIEVE nevertheless!
April 7th, 2009 at 23:56
@Grognard: I have read your post fully, and as usual you have come up trumps once again! I echo many of your sentiments, ESPECIALLY about Neville, who I think should do the honourable thing at the end of the season and hand the armband to Rio, so Fergie doesn’t have to keep on playing him just because he is the captain.
April 7th, 2009 at 23:59
@realred: Somebody should hand him the pipe and slippers already!
April 8th, 2009 at 0:01
Porto might not be all that good, but they sure do know how to rub United up the wrong way! They are our European bogey team, much like West Ham were our Premiership bogey team until recently.
April 8th, 2009 at 0:05
Oh what a disastrous performance. ANd I blame it entirely on the midfield. Except Fletch. Not much can any defense do if midfield just gives the ball to opposition players to charge at the back 4!
Scholes shooting a diagonal crossfield pass to empty space ffs!!
Bringing off Park was fine, but getting Giggs in?? Someone tell me if he did anything worthwhile?? Nothing I saw!! Heck, he even took the final free kick and bottled the one chance of redemption.
Where the hell is Wes Brown?? Did Fergie kick him and injure him??
Credit to Rooney who looked like the only one who knew what he had to do. And he left his Looney self at home too!
At this rate, it’s not far when some low grade team will give us a belting we’d never forget.. and at this rate it ain’t gonna be in the CL cuz we’ll not go ahead playing like this.
April 8th, 2009 at 0:14
We needed to be playing Rooney off a striker. Macheda may only be 17 but his presence created havoc in the Villa defence and he had an end product of startling quality. When we do get into crossing positions we carry little goal threat unless Ronny gets there.
We desperately need pace and too many older players are allowing opposing teams to run rings around us.
Tiredness of body and mind can best be countered by bringing in some of our promising youth players. The younger players have acquitted themselves well.
I cannot cope with much more of the feeling of extreme dread when Scholes starts and Neville comes on.
The last goal began with Vidic having to leave the striker to try to cover for Evra who just did not get back quickly enough.
I thought Porto played great. Really attack minded and very little of the diving that was such a part of Maureen’s Porto side.
April 8th, 2009 at 0:14
@Nino: Well mate, you either feel like we will do it or you have a bad feeling about it. Got to make up your mind.
Having both is just confusing to say the least. I for one think we are playing like total ass bags but I have sneaky suspicion we will go into Lisbon and shock them 1-0 or 2-1.
April 8th, 2009 at 0:15
@Rahul: Midfield played poorly but it wasn’t a midfielder that gave up the ball for the first goal and it wasn’t a midfielder who blew his marking assignment on the second goal.
April 8th, 2009 at 0:18
@Grognard: I really hope we don’t go to Lisbon. Because FC Porto is in Porto. If we go to Lisbon, not only would we have lost the plot, we’d have also lost our way.
April 8th, 2009 at 0:20
@Grognard: What I meant was that I think we will still go through as we are the superior team, but I won’t take anything for granted if past experiences are anything to go by. I know my last comment sounds like I contradict myself, so this is the clarification!
April 8th, 2009 at 0:23
@Rahul: How I long for a 7-1 destruction of Porto at their place! Our backs are against the wall, the tiger’s tail has been tweaked..I might as well trot out the cliches, but this malaise surely can’t go on for much longer and I hope that next week is the day we come bursting out of the blocks and surprise Porto in their backyard!
April 8th, 2009 at 0:24
More defensive injuries. I have to say if we don’t have a fully fit and focused back line against Porto in the return leg we haven’t got a chance in hell. Our defence needs to get back to its best. We need to keep a clean sheet in the return leg to give ourselves a chance of getting through because while I think we are worth a goal against Porto, two goals away from home is a big ask.
Having said that my prediction is a game of suicide football at Porto and a 2-2 draw with the game going to penalties, which we’ll win of course!!!
But some major changes needed for that game:
Nani and Ronaldo on the wings. They’ll be fired up against Portuguese opposition and are direct enough to put their defence to the sword.
Tevez and Rooney up front. Yes a 4-4-2 is a bit risky but we need to score two goals to cancel out the away goals. If we go for a defensive approach I see a 1-1 draw because our defence is bound to concede on current form.
In an ideal world we’d have a holding midfielder to shield the defence. But we do not have that luxury with Hargreaves out. Really I cannot decide what midfield combination to go for.
This is the third season running we’ve had a defensive crisis at this stage of the season. Brown is too injury prone. Neville is on his last legs. Rafael is still a bit defensively suspect.
Really we need another versatile defender who can play centrally or as fullback.
April 8th, 2009 at 0:25
@Grognard: Grog, midfield certainly didn’t lose the ball for the first goal. But even that said, after being 2-1 up, how is it that they could not retain the ball and slow the tempo down. And all the possession squandered throughout the first half certainly gave Porto the confidence, time and chance to attack us like a bunch of Piranhas!
I don’t blame O’shea too much cuz he’s not a CB. I would rather curse Rio for playing the England game..
April 8th, 2009 at 0:26
@Red Ranter: Hehe nice one! Pedantic to say the least, but great point nevertheless!
April 8th, 2009 at 0:27
@Red Ranter:
April 8th, 2009 at 0:29
@colver: Dunno about the defence…sure we need to shore up at the back but it’s the attack I’m more concerned about. We MUST take our chances in Porto, which we’ll always create of course. Ronaldo, Rooney & Co MUST turn up, or we will be out. End of.
April 8th, 2009 at 0:33
@Nino: I laud your optimism mate but I think for the next 2-3 days I’ll remain skeptical. Maybe after that I’ll look at things with hope. :
April 8th, 2009 at 0:36
@Nino: I’m worried who will play in defence next Wednesday.. If Evans goes out (God forbid) then we’re just plain screwed.
April 8th, 2009 at 0:42
All-right… this emotional roller-coaster ride is not over yet.
Comments:
Our form and morale is at a long-time low. From top to bottom EVERY player with the exception of perhaps Rooney and Fletcher are playing WAY below their abilities. I think this is attributed to a mix of complacency and fatigue.
1. When we went up 7 pts on liverpool with a game in hand we (players and fans) became cocky and assumed the rest of the EPL season would be a formality – and why not. We had beaten Chelsea, City, and kept 14 clean sheets in the process and were setting records all over the place. While we were winning the fatigue was cancelled out by the addition of 3 pts to our tally and the clean sheets every week.
Then came the perfect storm.
(a) Blackburn broke our EPL clean sheet record followed by Newcastle breaking EVDS’s individual record – it was the first dent in our magnificent armada
(b) Liverpool embarrassed us and broke the strongest of our team – Vidic. But we could call it a blip and move on IF we beat Fulham
(c) Fulham. The loss was a sign of actual lack of morale and and the 2 red cards cost us two players near the end of the season when fatigue is important.
(d) Fatigue. With the two losses and a broken record morale is low and fatigue is creeping up on us. We have played 50+ games so far and are missing players to injury and suspension, yet we must still win every game so on comes the strongest lineup (using the same players (read: Ronaldo) all the time. This is bleeding the team dry… one reason why Macheda had such an impact the other day – he was actually fresh.
We need our players back from the sidelines and the rotation implemented again with our younger (and very hungry players) to inject some excitement and end-of-season morale boost.
I am getting worried that our poor passing and even worse defending in the last couple of games is a downwards spiral. Add to this a disjointed and light midfield and out attackers, who still are world-class, are starved.
Fergie knows best and out players are world-class but it is our morale and concentration that really worries me – you cannot buy morale!
I say put on some younger players who have not been part of this past nightmare and lets see what happens. I think Ronaldo is dead-tired – there is NO other explanation as to why he cannot get past any defenders now-a-days.
1. If he hates it here, Fergie would know and would not let him play every game
2. His abilities are far greater than anyone in the world but I think he is on low morale and very tired. Rest him for the first half at Sundarland.
Lastly, did anyone else notice that Fergie was not happy when Tevez scored today? He must have been pissed at our team’s poor play today. I would have no clue how to improve morale… but I believe that Fergie does. I just wish he or Phelan would stand on the sideline and scream just once a game
We need a cheer-leader!
We will improve soon I think, I just hope we get past Porto next week and beat Sunderland in the process. Anything else and I think the fatigue will overtake our team and we will collapse… something I am starting to fear.
April 8th, 2009 at 0:43
@Rahul: Either way you dress it up, we NEED two away goals now and we are not gonna get those by keeping a merely clean sheet. Porto don’t have to score next Wednesday and can still go through with a 0-0, which is what I’m sure they will play for. Sure we CAN go there and get a 1-0 lead and sit on it, but that is too risky and furthermore, that is NOT the United way. ATTACK must be the order of the day and even if we lost 3-2 on the night and get knocked out I’ll still be proud that we gave it a right go.
April 8th, 2009 at 0:45
@Nino: I don’t see our attack as missing as much as out midfield not providing. We had two chances today and scored twice? Same with Villa.
April 8th, 2009 at 0:47
@Rahul: something I fogtor to mention. What is os bad about wanting to play for your conuntry ? What is bigger than a aworld cup?
Damn slow typing …
April 8th, 2009 at 0:48
@Nino: lose 3-2 and be proud. I prefer winning 1-0 and be smart
April 8th, 2009 at 0:51
@Nino: Yea we do have to score a bagful.
@Madschester United: Right now, even my morale is low!
April 8th, 2009 at 0:53
@Madschester United: We got lucky with the Rooney goal, otherwise we would only have the Tevez goal to celebrate. I believe we’ll score at least one goal at Porto, unless Porto play ultra-defensive in which case I can only see a 0-0 and inevitable elimination, but realistically we need two to avoid going out of the competition, and I’m not sure where the second goal is going to come from. Our only hope is to spring out of the blocks like we did against Inter Milan and Roma in that 7-1 and grab an early goal…then it’s game on!
April 8th, 2009 at 0:55
@Madschester United: Dude nothing bad i wanting to play for country. I am only looking at it being a United fan. I dunno what was the real deal, but if Rio actually carried an injury before the England game, he should not have risked it. It has its trickle down effects on United.
April 8th, 2009 at 0:56
@Madschester United: Yeah of course the 1-0 is the smarter option…but the question is: can our defence hold out for a 1-0? I say no, based on current form of the defence, which is why I said we must revert to type and attack as only we know how to do. Play like Porto did tonight. We ALWAYS have a chance when we attack!
April 8th, 2009 at 1:21
@Nino: Today I am looking at the 7-1 game in a new light. I think the game vs Roma was similar to our previous clean sheet record.
Recall that AC Milan were weak all the way through the season, except against us and liverpool as they collected the ECL trophy.
I see ourselves as AC Milan where were are not expected to proceed to the semi’s… I hope we beat Porto 3-0 with Ronaldo/Rooney pulling off a master piece of attacking football.
@Nino: I agree with the poor form… I am quite out of ideas on how to turn this ship around. No clue what-so-ever. Maybe hiring a clown to cheer up the players during half-time or practices?
April 8th, 2009 at 1:43
Yeah I think it is safer to set out to attack and score two goals. Playing for a 1-0 is too risky because it just takes one defensive slip to concede and we’ve made an alarming number of those in the last couple of weeks.
I don’t think Porto will sit back and defend. They’ll play a high energy pressing game and try to hit us on the break at speed. Maybe they’ll get more men behind the ball but they still represent a threat on the break.
Porto are strong in attack but we never really exposed their defensive frailties. That is what we have to do in the return leg, even if that means risking conceding a goal or two ourselves.
In any case even with a gung-ho attacking game I think we can outscore them so long as we have Rio back in defence. Vidic, Evra, and now Evans seem low on confidence and that is probably affecting their performances. Rio is a lot more confident and will inject some composure into the defence and won’t be rattled.
We need to trust our defence to do their job and let the rest of the team concentrate on scoring two goals.
Id go with EVDS, O’Shea, Rio, Vidic, Evra, Nani, Carrick, Fletcher, Ronaldo, Tevez, Rooney
April 8th, 2009 at 2:11
I like the Tevez Rooney combo up front… Porto is a small (height) team anyways… I am skipping an important course for this game so we better win.
April 8th, 2009 at 2:17
@Red Ranter: So shoot me for having a bloody momentary brain drain. So I meant we’ll beat Benfica ok.
April 8th, 2009 at 2:19
@Nino: Of all the teams that remaining, only Bayern Munich actually have tha balls to go on the road and attack. That will probably cost them tomorrow but attack is what they are about. That is why they destroyed a decent Sporting Lisbon team. 12-1 on agg and 5-1 on the road. Be very happy if we steal it 1-0.
April 8th, 2009 at 2:22
@Rahul: Because they were actually trying to get a third goal. We should never have settled for a 2-1 lead so I applaud them for going for the jugular. Sometimes it works, sometimes you get burned. But to get burned by incompetent fullback play is just not acceptable. Especially from highly experienced fullbacks. Both Evra and Neville should be taken out back and shot. Belay that order. We need their uselessness for next week. Lets wait until after we are officially eliminated.
Also, O’Shea was not the guilty party. It was Evans for goal #1 and Neville for #2.
April 8th, 2009 at 2:28
@Nino: If we open the game up and try to attack with our leaky defense, we will get murdered. Playing a tight defensive game and waiting for the break is the smart way to play the game. We need to practice hard and work on our counterattacking which has been in slow motion recently. 4-5-1 or 4-2-3-1 but with Nani starting.
April 8th, 2009 at 2:28
was Neville our only option to sub in for Evans?
were either of the twins on the bench?
April 8th, 2009 at 2:34
@Madschester United: We cannot look towards the game next week by basing it on anything that has happened to any team in the past. Life and reality doesn’t work like that. Just know that Fergie has been a coward all season long and nothing will change at Porto (or Lisbon if I had my way
). We will play it tight, defensive and sow and hope for a moment of brilliance or a penalty or free kick from Ronaldo that wins it for us.
One thing I can say from history is that as much as we have the disadvantage, quite often an underdog team that overachieves in the first road tie, comes out a little to cocky and overconfident and can be beaten. A great example of that was the mid to late 90’s when Ajax lost the first leg at home to Panathinaikos only to go to Athens and beat them with ease.
Porto has got more pedigree and class than the Greek team did, but then again, I feel this United team has way more class and skill than that Ajax club.
April 8th, 2009 at 2:38
What i’d like to know is what the Hell is Wes Brown’s major malfunction and when the Hell is that puffy Rafael gonna return? Man some of these players are soft tossers to be sure. Seriously though, how long does a guy miss for what was supposedly a small ankle injury? Then he has surgery and he’s gone for a while, but eventually returns only to disappear mysteriously again. As for Rafael, the time he was supposed to be gone has expired I believe. So where the frak is he?
April 8th, 2009 at 2:42
@Grognard: Oh no, I suppose you’ve been confusing Porto with Benfica for a while, but nevermind. I’m non-violent. I’d leave the shooting to more able men; Craig, perhaps?
April 8th, 2009 at 2:50
@Red Ranter: I am embarrassed because if there is one thing I take a lot of pride in it’s my geography. I know where Porto is and I am more than aware that it is a city in itself. I guess I just have been so used to facing Sporting of late that my mind was on Lisbon. Like I said, sometimes my typing is faster than my brain function.
April 8th, 2009 at 2:56
@Grognard: I agree… this season’s last month has no precedent. That’s how poorly we have played…
I was not basing any outcomes on previous teams, merely pointing out that people took AC Milan to be a done deal after we mauled Roma 7-1. Milan then brought their A-game and we got schooled by Kaka… Like them, we are capable of beating ANY team when we play our A-game… so I was hoping that our outcome follows similarly to AC Milan and not our team that season two years ago… Makes sense?
I don’t think Fergie is a coward – I personally found his antics vs. Barca and Chelsea last year brilliant (playing defensive and throwing the chelsea game with subs to win both EPL and ECL at the end). I would actually like for him to rest Ronaldo and Evra and Rooney against Sunderland and play with Tevez and Wellbeck up front.
Lastly, I found it hard to blame Neville for the last goal, because he actually had two players to cover on the play. I did find that O’Shea had a particularly bad game today… and so too with Evra and Ronaldo and Scholes. Also, EVDS seems shaky too often.
This year is different only because our defense is suddenly leaky.
I think he will let the 1st half play out by itself and then either go defensive (if leading) or all out (if losing on aggr.) in the 2nd half.
April 8th, 2009 at 2:59
Have any one else noticed how quiet OT has been lately. Even the fans’s morale is low or there are too many prawn-sandwiches served at OT. Fans can help bring the team back too.
April 8th, 2009 at 3:00
im off. Goodnight.
April 8th, 2009 at 3:08
@Madschester United: Defenders have zonal and specific positional requirements. Neville went after a player that was not his responsibility and vacated his zone of control and allowed a player to move in free and unchallenged. For me that was unforgivable. He was ball watching and not watching his man like he should have. Had he been watching his man, he wouldn’t have ended up in an area of the pitch where CB’s reside, and wouldn’t have vacated the area of the pitch where RB’s are supposed to reside.
Problem is that United play a flex zone defense that falls back and gives space up in front of them, but never behind them or to the side. Lately we have lost our width defensively. Evra and Neville ar playing the role of CB’s and Vidic and Evans have been caught having to charge wide and tackle guys because the two fullbacks are two central and caught upfield. It’s comical to look at and makes me wonder just who the Hell is running their training?
April 8th, 2009 at 3:09
@Madschester United: Yes I agree. If I was there I would have made lots of noise screaming and shouting profanities at our players and especially at Fergie.
April 8th, 2009 at 4:08
@Grognard: I was just teasing. Freudian slips happen to everyone, only today I put this up on my twitter page: “My reaction to today’s defeat: I am hungry. Need to eat something. Like, right now.”
Only then did I realise I wrote defeat, instead of draw.
I know it was a draw, but in my subconscious it felt like a defeat.
April 8th, 2009 at 5:34
@Grognard: You’re right, of course, about the zonal system, but Neville did the right thing in this situation. There was a player standing alone on the penalty spot, and as the cross came in, he moved to close him down. He had 2 players to mark, and he chose the player closest to the ball who seemed the bigger threat. That was the correct choice.
I just re-watched the goal about 10 times, and there were two main problems. The first and most pressing was Evra. The ball was behind him, along with FOUR Porto players, and he slowly jogged after the play. Vidic and Carrick were then unable to decide who should play the ball, and Carrick eventually backed off to guard no one. This shifted the zone, forced O’Shea to step to Hulk (correctly), leaving Neville with 2 players to mark.
The danger of the zone is that a piece will get overrun (in this case the penalty box!), and the players need to communicate to shift their attention to the danger. Both Carrick and Fletcher were basically guarding their zones, but they were empty and there was much greater danger behind them, and there was not enough communication to pull them back farther in support. All the defenders are to blame for the lack of communication, but Evra’s jogging was, for me, the far greater offense.
Also, Mariano clearly did not handle the ball. It hit his stomach and then his left thigh.
This game sucked
April 8th, 2009 at 6:22
Well, so much for the “quintuple”.I have to say I am a bit relieved it turned out this way, this atleast gives us a chance to scrape a 0-0 at Porto and go out with our dignity intact..I dont want to imagine what would happen if we play Barca in the final and defend like we did yesterday
April 8th, 2009 at 6:35
I totally second that Jim , it was a complete breakdown of communication. It was a collective mistake. How many times has Evra resorted to ball watching off late?. There was enough time for the defense to communicate and sort it out. Fletcher was at the edge of the box on the right side , Neville should have communicated it to him to come back take his man if he was moving to the center.O’Shea was taking on Hulk and the only players who could have possibly seen that we were outnumbered were VDS, Neville,Fletch and Carrick. There were 3 Porto players in the box and we had 4, with Evra taking it easy. Yes, we were going for the third but I dont think it was the time to gamble. We needed bodies in the box especially when they knew that Porto were going to have a crack.
It looked the easiest draw for us but we were lucky it was Porto , the way we showed up yesterday a team like Barca or Bayern would have humiliated us.
April 8th, 2009 at 6:44
Unseemly though it all is, the 3-2 at Villa and now having to do it the hard way and win in Porto does seem more the ‘real united’ than all those 1 nils we were eeking out. I’m hoping it is all an omen. We always make it as difficult as humanly possible don’t we?
Come On Utd – let’s turn this motherfucker of a season on. Now!
April 8th, 2009 at 6:46
@Red Ranter: It happens to the best of us mate. But as I used to teach high school Social Studies and Geography, consider myself doubly embarrassed. It’s like when I once told a friend of mine that Newcastle was a Scottish beer.
Sometimes the brain goes walkabout and doesn’t leave a message as to when it plans to return. 
April 8th, 2009 at 6:50
Does anyone think Possebon or James can be any worse than Scholes and Carrick??? Fergie should seriously consider giving them a go in the next few games
April 8th, 2009 at 6:56
@Jim: I see what you are saying but I still can’t agree. However, you bring up a great point about communication. What the Hell are they doing out there? They should be screaming at each other and letting each other know exactly where they are and what their assignments are. Problem is when one is tired they tend to watch the ball in every sport. It’s a tell tale sign of mental and physical fatigue. Confusion comes because players are taking a split second or half second longer to react to something and in this game, that is all it takes to create havoc. Basically the team needs a two week vacation at the worst time of the year.
My solution to this problem for next year would be to send a split squad to Asia One squad goes to one place, the other goes to the other to cut down on travel fatigue. During the season play only reserves in the league Cup and play only backups and reserves for the first three rounds of the FA Cup. That should give our starters 10 to 12 games less to worry about. I don’t care about the English domestic cups. The game has changed and evolved and they simply don’t mean as much anymore. Besides, giving the reserves that needed experience only makes them better and more ready should a Macheda or Welbeck need to be called up. Lets face it, in today’s game, only the league and the Champions League really matter and that’s the only competitions our first team should be playing in. A maximum of 51 games. Resting players throughout that and no players should be feeling the way they do right now. Bottom line is we got to greedy trying to win everything and the players are only human after all.
April 8th, 2009 at 6:58
@Scorp: Actually the way Bayern played on the weekend losing 5-1 on the road to minnow Wolfsburg tells me we would have won the game 6-5 had we played them.
April 8th, 2009 at 7:01
@Vivek: I like the idea of one of the two teamed up with one of our experienced midfielders, preferably Carrick. I rather like Possebon and I would like to see him get more of a run next year.
April 8th, 2009 at 8:01
How can Man Yoo suddenly be so bad? That last goal Porto scored when their man was unmarked was real bad. I definitely agree – Scholes, Nev MUST GO! Too old. And Park, while he chases a lot, is just not good enough for such a great club. Sell Berba and hope we dont lose to much on the deal
April 8th, 2009 at 8:15
@Grognard: “Basically the team needs a two week vacation at the worst time of the year.”
Fergie should put out reserve squad players ONLY for the Sunderland game to give our starters 8 days off. So what if we lose this game… we still lead by 1 pt in theory. i would like to be able to waste the arsenal game but it is too late in the season to get us any kind of rest.
Therefore, Put out:
Foster
Fabio, Rafael, Evans and some young defender or Brown
tosic, anderson, nani, gibson
wellbeck, tevez
Subs: Park, Vidic, cleverly, macheda, PIG
It is a decent team that may win the game (60% chance) and it rests EVERYONE else for 8 days!
April 8th, 2009 at 8:53
@Madschester United: I agree with you to a point. I’d still start a few regulars but overall I agree. We need to waste one so that the boys can have a rest. A tactical risk that should pay off in the long run.
April 8th, 2009 at 9:01
Wow, very strange game for me. Thoughts:
1. Our first 10 minutes was the worst performance I have ever seen, bar none from a Manchester United team.
2. Park’s performance was, for 60 minutes, bar none, the worst I’ve ever seen from a Manchester United player. That includes Kleberson.
3. Porto were very good and played the game in the right way, all credit to them.
4. Scholes and Carrick do not work as a pairing. Just in case we hadn’t already noticed.
5. Our defensive confidence is shattered. We need the midfield to protect the back 4 until it comes back. They did not do this today.
6. Why are we afraid of tackling? Is standing straight and walking in a zone really the best approach? Because it’s not what Chelsea/Liverpool do and they seem pretty good at it.
7. Fergie has no idea what his best team and formation is. And until he picks one and starts playing it, we’re going to be crap at passing, crap at anticipating movement and disjointed. What do we expect?
8. Fletcher is actually rather good.
9. Rooney and Ronaldo are superb, and almost single-handedly pulled us back into the game last night. Isolated and alone up against 5/6 Porto players at all times, they still managed some decent interchanges. I was impressed with them.
10. We’re not actually very good at the moment, so we should take what results we can as positives, until our vastly experienced manager can work out how to player our vastly talented players in a way that works.
April 8th, 2009 at 9:03
Let me make the following observations;
1-Fergie has become too predictable its boring.As long as his old heads are fit,he will make sure they start games and hope that Ronaldo can pull out a rabbit,then he will go in front of the cameras and spell how the experienced players brought composure and how they are important.
2-I dont know which Scholes to hate.The legend that we all adored or the one am seing now.The guy told us he would quit when he felt he wasnt playing to his standards.Has he forgotten?Is he looking for more money?
2-Gary Neville.Why he is still captain is beyond me.What kind of leadership does he bring to the team when he is the worst fucking player in the league?Keane had lost the dressing room but his performance was not as bad as GN or PS.
3JS PARK. A true example that Korean magic works.The guy totally owns Fergie.What has the manager seen in this little bastard that we do not see?Is it sales in Asia?Cant we fore go that for the love of our team?And the biggest joke of the century is not George Bush.No.Park starts ahead of Nani!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
4-Zoran Tosic.I know he hasnt played but thats my point.Why on earth would you buy a player and not use him?Why didnt we go out and buy someone with legs and who can actually run?What does this boy look after Vidas kids?thats it?
4-Tactics.Totally negative a person from mars would laugh if you told him we were world club champions with those displays.
5-Midfield in general stinks.No amount of words can explain it.
WAY FORWARD.OUR PROBLEMS cant be solved now but in the summer.so we can all hold still until then and do the following;
SELL;
pARK
EVRA
CARRICK.
OSHEA
ETIRE
GIGGS.of the old men he is the one that plays well,but i hate to see him at a level scholes and neville are at.
SCHOLES,NEVILLE.
BUY.
assistant manager
a central attacking midfielder.
Midfield enforcer in the number 6 sense
play
nani,anderson,macheda welbeck……
April 8th, 2009 at 9:09
The common denominator of the last four matches is the team appearing to have at least one player less than the opposition – even before Scholes got sent off against Fulham.
Only when the opposition try to hold on to a lead – and back off – do United look threatening, but as we saw tonight, as soon as Porto went one down, they sliced through the team with ease. Even if the team was going for a third.
I have hope for the return fixture though, providing they let us play with 12 men.
The time and space the opposition has on the wings and in attacking midfield positions is suicidal.
I don’t see how this is suddenly going to rectify itself unless a couple of those gaping holes are plugged by someone who can actually close down.
April 8th, 2009 at 9:17
Just woke up, and the first thing that popped up in my mind was: Lets hire that Porto coach as our assistant. Purtugeeze, attacking minded, can do wonders witha team full of low-profiled players, can make them work together, and most importantly( what I feel Fergie is doing wrong) he is making each player playing on his strenght. Not trying to improve his weaknesses in a game, a must win game, but he make them play the way they can and make them all believe they can win them all by playing attacking. Who the fuck was that guy anyway? He seems like a good coach, and unlike former Porto coach he makes them win while playing attractive football. He really impressed me yesterday, and I feel he would have been great as Fergies right hand man instead of Shorts Muppet.
He may also be able to improve the play of Nani, Anderson, Rafael and maybe even Ronaldo. I dont exactly feel they are sufferring because CQ left, but I know it hasnt helped them in any way…
April 8th, 2009 at 9:21
@Madschester United: Thankfully there are those players to pick from. I would go half and half, depending on fitness obviously, but I would definitely bring in Gibson and Fabio.
April 8th, 2009 at 9:41
Fergie seems to have become soft. Have been noticing it for a while, but because I love him and adore him so much, and because of what he has done furing the years, I have been teling myself its all lies. LIARS!
But now… Not even I cant help but feel he need to do something. I dont know wether to blame our poor from on the players, Fergie, Shorts Muppet or possibly even the fans. I think they have been awfuly quiet lately, not showing the support the team needs. Although the players may not deserve it, if we want to help them in any way it is our duty to cheer them on and give them energy!
Players are mentaly tired, we have known that for some time. But its not only that, they are also physically tired. It all started against Inter at home, when everyone except Ronaldo and Rooney reacted slow. No one was quick off the mark, never first to the ball, not in their true position, and in defense that is fatal! We got away with it against Inter, but against Liverpool we didnt. Vidic let the ball bounce( lack of concentration), and then fell( physical tired) to let Torres score against VDS. Then Evra did something so inexperienced as sliding tackling when he on normal basis would reach the ball, because he is not slower than Gerrard!, and we let Gerrard fly past him( physical tired) and slide tackled when he usually wouldnt( mentally tired). Then we have the reed card for Vidic, when he saw no other opportunity than to rugby tackle Gerrard. I cant blame him for that, but I will blame his teammates for not being around hom to cover the situation. On a regular day, Evra would be on the left side of defense and cover for Vidic. The Dossenna goal was a combo of not believeing( mental) and not having the energy( physical).
And the Fulham game, what the fuck was Paul doing handling the ball in the penalty area?! I call that being mentally ill, which falls in the category of mentally tired. Then Evra didnt track back for the Gera goal( physical). Rooney lost his head and got sent off for something very immature, and that also falls under mentally ill and tired.
We have been doing some more of those againnst Villa and now Porto, but the question is how do we fix this? The physical part is actually just rest. But you will never be physically prepared if you aint mentally prepared. And this team is suffering from lack of will, or belief. Moral is low, and we do mistakes we never do. Scholes made 9 passes which went to the opposition yesterday, and for him that is an awful lot! When he does that, you know something is wrong. So what do you do if you are suffering from low morale? Do you rest the players? Do you scream at them and make them feel sorry? Blame them for the results? No, you give them a fucking morale boost! Im talking from experience, by my own “career” and from watching football some years. You tell the players they should believe in themselves, that its their choice what they will do. It aint enough with a simple: “do better!” Somebody needs to take the responsibilty and give us our confidence back. Fergie has done it all these years, but Im afraid he has lost his will or ability to do that. We need a leader! Where is Keano…
When Fergie cant help this team, then the only guys who can are the fans. We need to make a stand, show the players that we are here with them. They are not alone, and we are willing to take a bullet for them. Come on now, they need us! For those going to Old Trafford next weekend, tell them to scream their lungs out and cheer the team on!
April 8th, 2009 at 9:44
Evra has totally lost it. Wether he is too confident( aka arrogant, taking things for granted), or has too little confident is something I dont know. But whatever it is, he aint getting better. His defensive choices are staggering and terrible, and his pace has deserted him. Fabio needs to get his Prem debut quick! And against Sunderland, a team whichs motto is “Park the bus”, he will not get harrassed. Let him start that game and if he does better than Evra then Fergie might consider him for more games, or maybe Evra wakes the fuck up.
April 8th, 2009 at 10:06
Yea, the lads need a break. My team for sunderland:
VDS(he doesnt need rest, if we play a shit team, shots will come at him)
rafael
evans
o’shea(he doesnt look burnt out at all)
fabio
nani(he should start against porto )
anderson(should start against porto)
gibson
park(should NOT start against porto)
welbeck
macheda
One of them should start against porto, who ever plays better.
April 8th, 2009 at 10:21
Fergie has gone a bit senile though! FUCKING One TOP against Porto At home? WTF
It should have been Macheda up top with Rooney in the hole. The position where he plays the best!
Now please dont bang when I am saying a 17 yr old should be leading the Manchester United frontline. But he deserved a chance. Atleast he is better that dwarfy Park!
April 8th, 2009 at 10:33
Fergie has gone pussy. Nuff said.
April 8th, 2009 at 10:39
@Grognard: Grognard you hyprocrite!!
All those times you lambasted Fergie for playing shit on a stick defensive football in Europe (especially vs. Barca) and what is this I am hearing???? 
I thought you of all people would agree with me that we should throw caution to the wind lol
April 8th, 2009 at 10:51
I think we’re knackered. What’s worrying is we had no excuse to be against Fulham, but saw how that went.
4 days to prepare for another must win game against Sunderland. Earn your dosh Fergie.
April 8th, 2009 at 11:02
@donibrasco: You are a muppet mate sell Carrick, what one of our players of the season, sell Evra who is simply out of form and arguably still one of the best left backs in the world, sell O’Shea the guy who can fill in anywhere and is not even a starter when everyone is fit and is doing a job for the team.
We were shite last night and I was there to witness it, but we always do things the hard way and I still believe we will go through.
We have Berbatov out, Tevez fucked, Brown out, Rio out, Hargo out, Anderson out, Rafael out. We played 48 hours earlier in the game of the season posibly players were somewhat tired maybe?
No Fergie has gone senile or is now a pussy, or Phelan is a muppet again, sorry my mistake.
April 8th, 2009 at 11:03
Fergie blew it at home by playing a 4-5-1. He blew the selection.
April 8th, 2009 at 11:05
This result some how does not look like ‘ doing it the harder way’ result, does it?
The problem is right now we dont have a player that the team can look upto when we are in trouble. It is still Ronaldo from whom we expect magic when he is half the player that he was last season. Rooney looks like our most lethal attacking weapon right now. He looked good yesterday, but should have been more involved in the game. It is not a fault of his though that he was asked to play up top. I think we would have done well if Rooney had a partner yesterday. He is looking sharp since he came back from his injury.
But what has happened to Carrick, clearly when he doesn’t play , our team doesn’t. There has been no sort of control in the midfield for these last few weeks. That has hurt our team really bad as our play this season has revolved around the concept of possession and ball retention in the midfield.
Last year ,most times,we played with two defensive midfielders giving Ronnie the license to roam and take up positions in the center.That was a 4-2-3-1 system with midfielders distributing the ball to the flanks as quickly as they could. Ronaldo’s movement to the center has been stifled this season.Probably it is time we go back to that tactic , play Fletch and Carrick as two deep lying mids.This would also help our leaky defense. Nani and Ronnie on the wings supporting Rooney and Tevez.But for that tactic to work out again we need Ronnie to be at his best which I’m afraid he is nowhere near.
April 8th, 2009 at 11:07
@Scorp: What sort of result wuld you say it was then, the easy way?
April 8th, 2009 at 11:18
@Stephen:
I didn’t read the post you wrote earlier so didn’t know you were referring to how we do it the hard way. Anyway what I meant was the result was does not give me any kid of confidence that we might still turn it around in Porto. I hope I’m wrong. Yes, we do make things tough for ourselves , we could have said that when we lost against the dippers or against Fulham, saying that it was just a blip and we made things harder for ourselves.But to me, this does not look like a blip. There is no cohesion , there is not much movement and the players look really knackered. Yes, we made it harder for ourselves , but am not sure if we can turn it around.
By do you think Fergie should have played Ronaldo up top with Rooney falling deep?
April 8th, 2009 at 11:19
@Nino: But that’s Arsenal drawing with Milan. Arsenal would have been happy with that first leg result. We drew the weakest team in the competition, and couldn’t beat them at home. Not only couldn’t beat them, but got comprehensively outplayed. On current form, we re the worst team in the competition. There is no way in hell we will get past Arsenal in the next round if we somehow pluck a performance out of the air in Porto.
April 8th, 2009 at 11:22
Hello , first time posting! , here is my rant , i think few months ago teams parked the bus against us and never really tested our defense thats how we went on a run of goaless wins , even when we won it was 1-0
so i think the problem with defense was there but it never showed up till now until we got tested.
April 8th, 2009 at 11:30
@Scorp: I do mate yes, we should have played Ronnie through the middle with Wazza no doubt but we did score two goals at home and that should have been enough to beat Porto.
To their credit they played well and we certainly did not, but attacking wasn’t the main issue we are conceding too many goals, we have conceded ten goals in four games which is the real route to our problem.
April 8th, 2009 at 11:49
@Stephen: Yes mate, I do agree that we have been playing with virtually no defense off late. But I think Carrick’s form or rather lack of it has affected us the most off late. Our clean sheet record coincidentally happened when Carrick was on top of his game. That is not saying much about his defensive abilities but about his economical use of the ball. He hardly gives the ball away and that keeps things moving for us and with the kind of movement we have up front we are bound to create spaces where the players can run into. But he has been poor for the last month or so and this has not helped our newly acquired frailties at the back. Yes , we would have loved to have Hargo at this time of the season but I dont think our woes have been purely because of the lack of a mid field enforcer as I think fletcher has been superb for the last two matches. I’m looking at our defensive fragility with a different perspective here, I think we’ll look solid again once Carrick pulls up his socks and puts in the kind of performances that he gave around Christmas time.
April 8th, 2009 at 11:52
@Stephen: Beat me to it
@donibrasco: I notice you didn’t criticise Rooney like you usually do. You were saying a couple of weeks ago that he should be sold. We would’ve lost without Rooney and Tevez last night. It’s the defence and midfields fault as a whole (sorry scapegoats just doesn’t fly with me) and if we had gotten rid and retired all those players you talked about we wouldn’t have won ANYTHING in the last 3 years and so we would probably have less of the fair weather fans like you
April 8th, 2009 at 11:58
@Scorp: I agree completly and also I believe that Evans a, is very tired and b, obviously playing through an injury and also it us his debut season and with young players consistancy is something you gain with experience.
Carrick has lost form, and with Anderson being injured and to be honest off form also we havn’t had the chnace to give him a rest and to recharge.
I am not also saying this is a blip because simply it is not, and Sunday wallpapered over the cracks but the players are tired, and it has been a long hard season and to simply blame Fergie and say players should never play again and Fergie should retire is simply ridiclous.
April 8th, 2009 at 11:59
@Liam: Spot on mate.
April 8th, 2009 at 12:04
@Stephen: I reckon when we finally get a 1st choice 11 on the field all the problems will be weeded out
To everyone talking about Neville don’t forget he has played 3 games in a week after being rushed back from injury. I’m sure if it was Ronaldo (who cost us the first goal and that was a huge blow) people would make every excuse under the sun for him
April 8th, 2009 at 12:12
Well instead of asking Fergie to retire , I think we should be grateful that he is still there. He is bound to commit a few mistakes, two successful decades don’t make him super human.If there is any one who knows how to deal with this and motivate the players , then it is him. Just hope the hairdryer works and he has another trick up his sleeve.Till then hang onto the belief that this might still be a very successful season for us. The hype of doing the quintuple has affected us the most.Come June and even if we end up with the league and the FA cup , some fans might still crib about our season !!!
April 8th, 2009 at 12:13
@Liam: I agree mate, they look physically and mentally tired last night, I am not making excuses but we have to accept the fact these boys have been all over the world this season and they are going to be shattered.
Once we get our first eleven out we should be fine, and I complely agree about Ronaldo.
April 8th, 2009 at 12:32
Also look on the brightside, we are nothing less than shite at defending leads, so we have to attack in the second leg which can only be a good thing!
April 8th, 2009 at 12:40
@RedDevilEddy: We wern’t quiet last night or Sunday.
April 8th, 2009 at 12:44
@Stephen: As far as I can recall, no one called for Fergie to retire. Perhaps I missed that post?
I am so sick of blaming individual players when it is clear that they are actually trying very hard. One game, a player can be faulted…2 games, perhaps a group of players, the slump we’re in now? The entire team. If you blame the team, then no-one other than the manager should own up responsibility. Notice that I have not even mentioned his use of cowardly tactics?
“In September we’ll come good”
“In October we’ll come good”
“I see us flying in November”
“We traditionally have a good run after new year”
FUCK…next month the season ends, and we still have not even had a half-decent game that I can be truly proud of this season. We’re playing worse football than Chelsea under Mourinho. Earlier this season, we played shit but won (therefore people had mixed emotions), now we’re not only playing shit, we’re lososing on top of it. Is it any surprise that people react the way they do?
I will re-iterate my stance. I blame Fergie. (cowardly tactics, mall man-management, too-conservative). If we win anything this year, I will also praise him for that, but, I cannot praise him for the type of performances he’s been dishing out. Regardless of how successful it is in winning trophies. Last season we did it in style. True champions. Why did he have to change a successful entertaining formula?
April 8th, 2009 at 12:54
The problem with resting players is the guys in the most need of a rest are our defenders and we are down to bare bones!!!
Certainly though in central midfield we can afford to rest whoever is lined up to play against Porto. As Im guessing it is going to be any combination of Giggs/Fletcher/Carrick, Id start against Sunderland with Gibson and Scholes or Gibson and Anderson if Anderson is fit again.
Nani also needs a game to get him sharp for the Porto game. And Tevez should definitely start as he is short on match sharpness.
Basically we need Rio fit for the return leg even if we have to give him painkilling injections or whatever. Rio has lapses in concentration but he does not get as flustered as our other defenders have as late and he will instill some composure in our defence for the return leg.
Im not blaming Evans. He is not used to playing twice a week which he’s been forced to do for large parts of this season and has had bad luck with injuries.
Vidic was pretty anonymous in the Porto game. OK he did not make any real mistakes but we needed him to show some leadership in defence and there was none. He has the day off at the weekend so that is no excuse. He should have imposed himself more on the game.
That was the main things that was missing in our defence: leadership. EVDS is partly to blame. We needed someone like Schmeichel in goal shouting at our defenders and getting their heads back in the game.
I agree where the hell are Brown and Rafael? Brown in particular Im mad at. He was a vital part of the defence last season but this season he returned to form with everlasting injury problems and it is not good enough.
It is difficult to decide what tactics to use. An attacking 4-4-2 could expose us to Porto’s counterattacking prowess. But two up front gives us a chance to really test Porto’s defence and Tevez and Rooney work well together.
It is tempting to play a 4-5-1 and try to shield our defence. But I think we need to put more faith into this team. Carrick and Fletcher have the ability to hold their own in midfield (maybe not against a better team, but against Porto they certainly do). And once Rio is back in our defence I think we will put in a markedly better performnace.
Meanwhile a 4-4-2 will give us some real penetration down the wings especially if we go with Nani and Ronaldo. Porto play quite narrow and go through the middle. So we’d do best to stretch them as much as possible which makes the job of our central midfielders that much easier.
SO my team for Sunderland would be:
EVDS, O’Shea, Rio, Vidic, Evra, Ronaldo, Carrick, Fletcher, Nani, Tevez, Rooney
If any of our defenders show any tiredness we can bring on Evans. If we are controlling the game but need a bit more creativity we can bring Giggs on. If Nani has a howler then give Park a chance to make up for his woeful performance-worst Ive seen from him this season.
I have a suspicion part of the problem for us was disorientation after the international break with two games within the space of three days. We also have to remember that Villa gave us a real workout and after a game like the Villa game any team would be tired!
We have a week before the return leg and only a Sunderland game in between which really even in this state shouldn’t cause us many problems.
The Villa game didn’t end our slump because really we were lucky to win and got played off the park for most of the game.
The Sunderland game will be a kinder challenge. We’ll be able to get our rhythm back and hopefully achieve a comfortable victory which will restore confidence.
So I think we can get our players fresh for next Wednesday and then our superior quality should finally show.
Even with them playing at home we are good enough to beat them
April 8th, 2009 at 12:59
realred says:
April 7th, 2009 at 22:56
Fergie shouldnt be sacked, he should retire.
April 8th, 2009 at 13:34
@Stephen: Sorry. I missed that one.
I don’t feel that he should retire (yet). I would like him to go until at least next season – in order to bleed the new manager and NEW no.2 in.
However, I would like for Fergie to get his head out of his arse and wake up. We have the best collection of talent at Old Trafford. Our performances for this entire season does not show that.
On a positive though, the games on Sunday and last night was arguably some of the better ‘emotionally entertaining’ games all season (even if it were for the wrong reasons by taking you on an emotional roller-coaster).
April 8th, 2009 at 13:40
@Stephen: Thats only half of it, before he said fergie should be sacked!
April 8th, 2009 at 15:21
@Karl: Agreed mate.
@Dan: He is a muppet mate, I enjoyed your come backs matey!
April 8th, 2009 at 15:45
@Karl: The only issue if and when Fergie calls it a day my feeling is that someone should look at the club with fresh eyes. I mean if we have someone who is connected or will ne connected to the club and Fergie is still at the club then to be honest will he be simply a puppet? To manage United you need someone with experience and first and foremost must be their own man, this club is very unforgiving and if SAFFY is taking them through the ropes for as year or so, then whats the point he might as well stay.
April 8th, 2009 at 16:59
@Stephen: There’s no need to start this nonsense again. Only yesterday I tried to tell Dan and realred to drop it. The least I’d expect is for someone else to start this now. There was no need to call any commenter on here a muppet, and you of all people over here should know better.
April 8th, 2009 at 17:01
Nickelback- I’d come for you! Classic!
April 8th, 2009 at 17:01
@Red Ranter: Point taken.
April 8th, 2009 at 17:26
Steven and Liam go fuck yourselves.Muppet?This is red rants.I put in my share,you put in yours,thats just my thought you dont have to agree with me.
Mind you,without those three,we would still have won .Ronaldo has given us trophies on a silver plate.All the old guard had to do was lift them.
April 8th, 2009 at 18:06
@donibrasco: Fuck me?, I have been to more games than you have had hot dinners and your opinions are shite, mug.
April 8th, 2009 at 18:10
@Beachryan: Very strong points mate. I agree with most of them but I have to stick up for Park by saying that his performance was not the worst of the night but he was quite ineffective. The problem is he should never have started a game like that. Start him against Villa who have wide players like Ashley Young or even Agbondalahor to contend with and start Giggs in the Champions League to give us some ball control and offensive creativity or Nani.
It’s pretty sad when I seem management decisions being made by a legend and seeing them as so bad that I honestly can tell before the game that they will backfire on us. Fergie got the tactics and player selection all wrong. He should have started 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 with Tevez in the starting lineup.
April 8th, 2009 at 18:14
@Stephen:
April 8th, 2009 at 18:18
@donibrasco: You dont “buy” assistant managers, a number 6 is a centre back
April 8th, 2009 at 18:36
@magno: Thats a strong observation. They do look like they are playing a man short. It especially shows up when we are clearing the ball and there never seems to be a red shirt close to getting on the end of it. As well, when we get caught on the counter it amazes me the gap of space between our CB’s and the fact that there is never a fullback in sight. Our fullbacks are getting caught up field and then when a team counters I have seen with my own eyes them ball watching and casually jogging back. This is spreading our CB’s too far apart and this is why Villa scored their two goals and why Neville was caught watching the wrong man on the tying goal yesterday. Mr Evra had gone walkabout and was nowhere to be seen. Where he should have been was at the feet of the Porto player who crossed the ball for the tying goal. I blame the fullback play of our team for most of the defensive blunders over the past three weeks. Based on his play for the past 6 weeks, Patrice Evra may get that move to Barcelona a lot sooner than anyone ever expected. Right now I am a lot more willing to start next season with the Di Salvo twins as our two fullbacks.
April 8th, 2009 at 18:38
Hi all, man ive been gone for time cos of my internet connection being faulty and coursework but at last my internet is back and i can hear all things united from an intellectual group of people for the first time in ages. Alot has happened since i was last here, we seem to be going through a crisis at the minute especially at the back. I havent read all the posts on here so i dont know how everyone is feeling about us but man i am feeling really down and not looking forward to the rest of the season.
So to start, those who remember me know im not a great fan of park and his form as of late has shown why. In our time of need when we need some attacking play, he simply does not offer it. I nearly caused a war last time i was here all them weeks ago about park so i will move on. Another player who i just cannot stand is oshea. The guy is a disgrace to the shirt. I dont care about if hes loyal and sits on the bench he aint good enough full stop. He is apparently versatile, but he never performs any position he plays so thats not an argument. Yesterday he could have given away 2 goals at least, a stupid back pass they nearly scored and the offside where he was the only player playing the porto guy onside was just shocking. I also feel he was poor positional wise for the second goal, watch again he just stands there marking no one leaving neville to mark the guy in the centre and the guy at the back who ultimately scored. He is shocking and for me if he plays against porto again were out simple as. There is no defence of him.
I just feel we are like barca last year, in need of a mini clear out, but does fergie have the balls to ditch some of his favourites like the parks and osheas of this world. Going by how he has seemed of late no but hopefully im wrong.
Anyway its good to be back and hopefully i will be back on here regularly in the next few days. Later people.
April 8th, 2009 at 18:42
@RedDevilEddy: Like I said yesterday, Ferreira the Porto coach has toiled in cioaching for 30 years and has only had moderate success. Jose Mourinho thinks the guy is useless and has referred to him as a jackass who is a wannabe horse. Hasn’t got much respect for him. Mourinho can be a major asshole but he is also a strong judge of talent in players and coaches. After all, he thinks Rafa is an idiot, he thinks Wenger has lost his mind and he loves Fergie. On second thought, maybe Mourinho has lost his mind. Fergie sucks right now. No, I would not look at this old codger from Portugal as a #1 for Fergie. No, Fergie needs to bring back Queiroz as his #1 once Queiroz gets fired from his Portugal job after the next round of games this summer. Bring back harmony as well as good preparation in training.
April 8th, 2009 at 18:45
@RedDevilEddy: I can’t help but laugh mate. It’s amazing how you and so many are now echoing the exact things I have been shouting for weeks now if not for the whole season. Weeks ago I would be criticized by many for being impatient and negative. Now everyone has unconsciously jumped on my bandwagon. Just goes to show that the old Grognard isn’t the hair brain idiot some make him out to be and that he is a wise old bird who quite often knows what the Hell he’s talking about. I say Grognard for Manager.
April 8th, 2009 at 18:46
@RedDevilEddy: Yet again, I was the only one bitching about his play weeks ago. Now all of you wake up to the fact that Evra has lost it. Evra lost it months ago. It’s just that Vidic and Rio were healthy enough and not so tired and they were able to cover for his mistakes. But no longer. Our CB’s are dead tired due to being overworked.
April 8th, 2009 at 18:49
@Darth Red Diablo: The dark side is stirring within you young Apprentice. It’s good to see it. Let the evil flow out. Embrace it and let that dwarf Park feel your wrath.
April 8th, 2009 at 18:55
@Grognard: Well the fact that you would have said it before makes the impatient remark thrown on you. You wouldn’t be called impatient if you came to this conclusion now, because it’s after repeating viewing of the team’s failing. So I suppose that’s why you got the impatient remark thrown on you. And about being negative… well, I suppose your reputation seems to have been built up as the prince of darkness, fortunately or unfortunately.
April 8th, 2009 at 19:07
@Nino: How am I being a hypocrite mate? All one has to do is see how incredibly tired and inept our back four is and how undermanned it is due to injury. How are we supposed to let it all hang out offensively when our defense couldn’t hold back the assault of 3rd division Liechtenstein amateur side? We are not playing poorly defensively, we are totally useless and pathetic right now. We have been playing cautious and defensive minded football and we have been burned anyway. So you say let it all hang out as if our offense is in such good form that if we took the reigns off of them, they would put up a 9 spot. Now who is the naive one? United is in very poor condition and form and in times like that, one has to play towards caution. I hate it, I despise it, but Rio is injured, Rafael is injured, Evans is injured, Brown is injured, Vidic is tired, Neville is totally useless, O’Shea is average at best and Evra has gone from World Class to Pub Class in a month. Lets not forget a 40 year old in goal who although played fairly well yesterday, isn’t making the stops like a Casillas or Buffon in the same situation.
But you say attack. Yes lets attack when Paul Scholes in the most useless form of his career, when Nani has zero confidence, when Anderson is injured as well as lacking in confidence, when Carrick has slid down the ladder of mediocrity over the past month to the point where he is invisible out there, when Park is counted on to light up our offense but hasn’t the ability to light up a cigarette, and when Berbatov is not only injured but is playing better now while in a hospital bed than he has over the past two months, when Tevez does everything he can but clearly can’t catch a break or an ounce of respect and when Ronaldo as hard as he may or may not try, struggles to get 50% of his potential out of his tired and fed up body. That leaves us with Rooney. Our one true attacking force who can be counted on if he can keep himself out of the referees book and doghouse. This is the team you want to hang it all out and attack attack attack? No mate, I’m far from being a hypocrite. I may have wanted more attack minded tactics back when we were winning games 1-0 and when we were going 21 hours without conceding a goal. But the conditions of the playing field have changed. And right now caution must take precedence over gambling it all. We are dug in like the Germans at Stalingrad in the middle of winter. We are tired, hurt, and lacking confidence and strong leadership while being surrounded 5 to 1 by enemies who are smelling victory and blood. And you want to attack. Talk about going down with guns blazing. Sorry mate, but I’m not yet ready to just hand it over to the Scouse or the Johnny Come Lately’s from Porto. We need to dig in and prepare our fortress for an assault.
April 8th, 2009 at 19:24
@Firsttimer: Welcome aboard Firsttimer. That is part of the problem indeed. In fact I said numerous times in the past that once a manager showed up at OT that threw caution to the wind and attacked our defense with confidence, I would be interested to see how we would react. The park the bus mentality really made us very lazy and full of ourselves and Liverpool blitzing us for 4 was not a wake up call, it was a shock to their collective systems. A shock that has not worn off and has spread like a cancer into their souls and collective belief in themselves. They are now questioning the fact that they are not invincible and that they are not as good as other coaches and teams had let them to believe. Sometimes reality bites you and then sometimes it rears it’s ugly hammer and pounds you to a pulp. For a couple years I have claimed this team was lacking leadership on the field and a take charge guy. Hargreaves was that guy but his injuries have hurt his standing. Rio could have been that guy but ever since he was denied the captaincy for England and has not been given the captaincy of United, he has regressed and his moments of apathy and no focus have alarmingly returned. Now he also picks England as his loyal choice over United which has cost us dearly over the past few games. We don’t have a take charge kick them in their asses leader like Roy Keane. We have a bunch prima donas like Ronaldo and Rooney who at times look like inmates running the asylum and nothing is being done to discipline them and get them focused on the team and the mission.
Our defense has been exposed as a fraud. Sure Vidic is a God but Evra has gone south and smells like bad cheese now and Rio has been average at best. I don’t even want to discuss Neville. Our defense needs the help of a stopper of a goalkeeper and EVDS is not that. I am not a big Helto fan but he made some world class stops yesterday that gave [Porto hope. Although EVDS made a few decent saves from long distant shots, when Porto had two clear scoring opportunities, he did what he has done for the past four games, he let them in. Just stopping one of those goals might have been the difference. Above all, I am unforgiving of any goalkeeper that ball watches a ball into the goal. The free kick by Liverpool was so slow, any keeper, even Almunia the Useless would have had a chance at it. Carew’s header was pretty impossible to stop but to not even try? Helton on the other handed dived for everything yesterday and made 40 fingertip saves.
Then there is our inept midfield play. Amazing how the Scholes-Carick combination do this but they play too far back when we are on attack and too far up when we are defending. How do they do that? Much is being said about Ronaldo coughing up the ball a lot and that leading to goals. NEWSFLASH! Ronaldo has always coughed the ball up a lot. It goes part and parcel with his one on one play. But in the past our defense and especially our fullbacks have been strong enough to react and defend without much happening. Man I miss Wes Brown. He was always there to protect Ronny. A last bastion of defense. As for Park, yesterday his role was to be a pest. He was. He managed to get on all our nerves in expert form. Problem was, he was supposed to do that to the opponent team and supporters.
Man I am so pissed off with this team. And don’t even get me started with Fergie and his Muppet Brigade of coaches.
April 8th, 2009 at 19:29
@Karl: Good points mate. Let me add to what you have said with the fact that many of the signings of Fergie over the past few years have come up duds and that we have no grit or leadership on the pitch and no central midfield to cope with faster and more skilled teams. But I bet you Fergie doesn’t see it that way. Stubborn old coot.
April 8th, 2009 at 19:42
@Matt: Yes the Barcelona comparison is very accurate. We need a mini clearout and a change at manager. Fergie is great and a true legend. The greatest club manager the world has ever seen. But the time has come for him to retire. He’s too old, has gone to mellow and has lost the dressing room. Once you have lost the players and you cannot motivate them or scare them straight, its time to call it a day or move on.
United need a new look. At least 3 to 5 starters gone and 3 to 5 new ones brought in and an overhaul in our tactics as well as our training techniques. Too many leg injuries that I attribute to poor exerc