Nov 11
Man Utd v QPR: Preview
Open thread folks: all links to streams, discussion on possible lineups, rants, frustration, optimism (blind and realistic), all go here.
Possebon is expected to return to the starting lineup alongside a host of other young prospects. Evans should get a run out too, and there is a good chance of getting to spot Manucho.
Otherwise, Fergie says there will be a fair bit of experienced legs alongside said youngsters.
As I said, open thread, as I can’t really do a full fledged review of this game.
PS: I know I haven’t written about the Arsenal game yet. I will do it sometime if it’s even relevant at that point — and even if I do it I will touch on points that haven’t been discussed. And believe me, my perspective of the game was far different to the majority opinion on the threads.
Anyway, that will come in good time… meanwhile, have at it. Over to you…
Related items from Red Rants:- Man Utd v Stoke: Preview
- Man Utd v Everton: Preview
- Man Utd v Spurs match thread
- A Word To Some Departed Souls
- Porto it is then…
Tags: Game Preview
November 11th, 2008 at 8:32
Is the game being telecasted in India?
November 11th, 2008 at 8:40
Is Fabio still injured? Will he feature in the game? Before the twins came to United, all talk was about Fabio. He was the star performer in the U-17 world cup. It was said that he was a far better player than Rafael. If that is to be believed, then Evra might soon have a tough job in keeping his spot at LB.
November 11th, 2008 at 8:42
my pridicted team from what saf has said would be:
foster
rafa
evans
vidic
o’shea
nani
gibbson
possebon
giggs/park
welbeck
manucho/tevez
November 11th, 2008 at 8:52
what does everyone feel about Fergie’s comments made about the EPL’s scheduling of all away games for United after away matches in Europe? coincidence or purposely?
November 11th, 2008 at 9:08
———-Foster———–
-Rafael-Brown-Evans-O’Shea-
-Park-Possebon-Gibson-Nani-
——-Welbeck-Tevez——-
Subs: Manucho, Giggs, PIG, Vidic, Hewson
November 11th, 2008 at 12:15
I think Brown is injured, not actually sure who our back two will be…
November 11th, 2008 at 12:21
what time is the game, and does anyone have a link?
November 11th, 2008 at 12:23
world class rooney looked like a pussy out there.why cant tevez start?garry poppin?whats that?
November 11th, 2008 at 12:27
@RDJ: no i don’t think the game will be telecasted here in india.the channel only shows the finals of Carling cup.However if u do find it being telecasted please post it here.
November 11th, 2008 at 12:45
My prediction for the Arse game was totally wrong. Hopefully it aint this time. I like it when United play with the youngsters. It is huge for those kids to play at Old Trafford and these young guys are my hope to me becoming an United player.
But enough of that! Foster wont play cause Fergie promised PIG that he would play. Since Foster played the Celtic game, PIG will get a start here. Rafael will probably play, and may he score another goal thank you 
, Evans and Oshea will be in our back 4, but I dont know who the last one will be. I will go for Vidic. We might not play a 4-4-2 today cause we need to think about who we are playing. Not the opposition, but our players. Team prediction:
PIG
Rafael Vidic Evans Oshea
Possebon Gibson Anderson
Welbeck Manucho Tevez
Score precition: 4-0 to Untied. Tevez to score a hat-trick and Gibson a blaster. My optimism hasnt fell because of the Arsenal game you see.
COME ON YOU REDS!!!
November 11th, 2008 at 13:46
Fabio is still out injured so Oshea will play at left back.I do hope evans plays the game and i guess it will be at Vidic’s position. For the front two I see a wellbeck/Tevez starting with manucho coming on Later in the game.so my line up would be
PIG
Rafael Ferdinand Evans OShea
Park Possebon Anderson Nani
Tevez Wellbeck
Some of the things i will be watching out for during the game is how manucho plays and the crosses Nani will be delivering to him. I have watch him play in the reserves and I am pretty impressed with his positional sense. What I would like to caution is complacency in this game. QPR and a lot of other teams in the lower tiers always want to make a name of themselves as being giant killers. if we take this game lightly then expect QPR causing a major upset. If it all goes will though I think we will win this game 2-0.
Finally, on this arsenal match. I enjoyed the match, the best game i have seen in the EPL but there’s some few things I think we need to adress and hopefully it will show in this match.We must be sharper in front of goal. At the moment I see the hunger to score and finishing teams off is lacking. Second we must be going to recieve the ball and not wait for it to reach us. we must learn how to close down the opposition’s attack before they reach near the box. When arsenal were stringing those 17 passes that lead to the second goal I was really pissed that nobody(especially the midfield) went to close them down. it was really disappointing.Lastly i do hope that Fergie doesnt just use the likes of Possebon and wellbeck in the Carling cup only. We need to let them gain EPL experience, just look at Silva.
November 11th, 2008 at 13:50
I know i might get some stick for this but is it too late for Benzema or the Hunter?
Carlos Tevez is a mere carbon copy of Wayne Rooney with a bit more dribbling and close control. Whereas Berbatov looks like a taller more classier version of Wayne Rooney minus the workrate. we still don’t have an out an out striker. Despite having three top class strikers, our main goal threat still remains to be Ronaldo.
Isn’t that why we bought Berbatov, didn’t we want someone to alleviate the goal scoring burden from Ronaldo’s shoulders? And Berbatov for all his class, doesn’t look like a 30 goal/season player. He is more of a 15 goals+20 assists type of player.
And wayne Rooney still isn’t playing as a second striker. He is the person playing on the shoulder of the last defender while Berbatov drops deep to link up with our midfield.
My point is that Carlos Tevez is a luxury for us. He is a great player, but we have Wayne Rooney who can do everything that Tevez is capable of. So instead of splashing another 20 odd milion for Tevez, wouldn’t it be wise to spend the money on something that we don’t have? An out an out goalscorer? Someone like Huntelaar or Benzema? What do you guys think?
November 11th, 2008 at 13:53
As for the Anderson debate, I personally think that he should have never been deployed in central midfiled. Watching some of the porto games(and youtube) I think he could have flourished much better in the wings than the central position. When he was at Porto, they were playing a 4-3-2-1 formation with Quaresma and anderson himself occupying the positions just behind the striker. That pace and energy is surely what we need on the wings so here’s my suggestion. Since the Left wing has been identified as a problem in our system wy not deploy him there. He has pace, can beat defenders and can deliver good crosses into the box. He will bring in more competition hence increase the quality of our wing play on the left.
November 11th, 2008 at 13:54
@Manutd forever: Zee sports which normally telecasts Carling cup matches, is telecasting the Arsenal v Wigan match. That is why the United match isn’t on air.
I was hoping some other channel would telecast our match, but unfortunately it looks like we have to depend on streaming videos on the net.
I’d really appreciate if someone posted the match link. Thanks
November 11th, 2008 at 13:59
@Nelson Otieno: He played on the wings once out of about 20 games was it? The rest of the time they played a 4-3-3 or a 3-5-2 and he played in the middle of a three.
He’s not a winger, he’s a centre mid.
@donibrasco: Rooney’s a better player than Tevez. Get over it.
@RDJ: You’ll get stick because this isn’t football manager, we can’t just buy and sell players however we like. Huntelaar’s not all he’s cracked up to be, and hasn’t played well this season. Benzema’s said in his last interview he’s going to Spain, so yeah it’s too late.
We bought Berbatov because he’s a great player, the same reason we bought Rooney and Tevez. Not for their goals.
We’re not going to be splashing £20m on Tevez. If Gill says it’s a cheap price then it’s going to be cheap.
November 11th, 2008 at 14:12
@Conor: Tevez too isn’t actually on fire this season. And about going to Spain thing, didn’t Tevez say the same things? I remember him saying something about going to Boca before he has passed his peak.
There’s no denying that Tevez is a great player, but he is a striker. And clubs buys strikers to score goals mate. And about the Football Manager part, Benzema is off Lyon at the end of this season and probably Huntelaar too. And, Tevez’s loan ends at the end of this season. So it won’t be that hard to switch our strikers.
Although i admit that this would be unlikely as Fergie said he’ll wrap up the Tevez deal before the season ends and i believe him. Just wishful thinking from my part.
November 11th, 2008 at 14:24
@RDJ: Yeah, he said he wants to go there some time in his career. Benzema said he wants to go there next season.
The French forward was heavily linked with a move to Manchester United before Dimitar Berbatov’s arrival at Old Trafford but a number of other European heavyweights have also been tracking his progress.
The 20-year-old has come up through the ranks at Lyon but has now revealed that he will be ready to exit his boyhood club at the end of the season.
Benzema has set his sights on a move to Spain and has invited Barca and Real to vie for his signature.
“My future? I like Spain. Next year I will play for Barca or Madrid,” he told France’s Stade 2 programme.
Reports suggest that Lyon may allow Benzema to leave the club, but it will be on their own terms and they are believed to be only prepared to listen to offers that could break the world record transfer fee.
One criticism of Benzema is that he is not yet ready to step up and become a star at one of Europe’s biggest clubs, but the player himself thinks that is unfair.
He said: “Some people have said I cannot play at the highest level. How ridiculous. I have a lot to learn and am still growing.
“I am only 20 and am working hard to improve all the time.”
No they don’t. That’s media bollocks. Out of the last 5 strikers we’ve bought spending £100m in the process, none have been prolific goalscorers. Berbatov, Rooney, Saha, Tevez and Smith. None of them were bought for their goals.
The wishful thinking is Football Manager stuff, which is my point.
November 11th, 2008 at 14:24
I agree with Conor, buying Huntelaar now will be like trying to fit in square pegs for round holes. fergie already has a probelem with managing four strikers, with more in the reserves. If we ever need more strikers we can look at the reserves team and groom one to suit us. We dont need to splash out more millions. We have the best talent in the world in terms of the striking department. The service isnt there. So all that we need to do is stabilize the mid field. Get an attacking mid since we alreayd have good devensive mids. Thats it. And yeah, if you guys havent noticed, a certain patrice Evra has been as close to shite as gary neville has been. I mean, look at him over the past few games, cant make a solid tackle without fouling the guy. Our string of passes end when the ball is passed to him, for Jove’s sake, he is not able to collect a straight ball sent to him cleanly. I mean, what has happened to him, we definitely need competition to our LB position.
Our finishing, our service and our defence. God, it seems like we are about to get relegated. Shows how spoilt us fans are!
November 11th, 2008 at 14:32
And guys, what time is the match?
November 11th, 2008 at 14:33
@Conor: I thought Old Trafford is also called as the theatre of dreams
November 11th, 2008 at 14:36
@UnitedUnited:
Evra’s been shit so we need more competition at left back?
We need an attacking midfielder?
Typical overreactions.
And RDJ’s not talking about having four strikers, he’s talking about swapping Tevez for Huntelaar.
“fergie already has a probelem with managing four strikers”
Bollocks. The treble. Sherigham, Solskjaer, Cole and Yorke.
November 11th, 2008 at 14:37
@RDJ: Indeed it is, and this current team is the stuff of dreams already.
November 11th, 2008 at 14:37
@UnitedUnited: Dude, i don’t think you’ve read my post. I seriously don’t want us to add another striker. I just wanted the millions that are going to MSI’s account to be transferred to Ajax’s account instead.
November 11th, 2008 at 14:43
@UnitedUnited: 8pm BST
November 11th, 2008 at 14:47
I didnt say Fergie cant manage, I said he is having problems manging four of em. And those are pretty apparent. If you think not, then what the hell happened to Tevez all of a sudden. he was supposedly, to quote RR himself, the best striker in our squad. Now, he is low on confidence, doesnt it show that Fergie isnt managing them well? Also, RDJ my mistake. I wanted to mean, we dont need another guy in the striking department. I only said, that we have among the best in the industry. So we need a way to manage them properly and not buy another striker, or swap.
Evra needs competition for his berth. Right now he is not playing quality. That is an overreaction? He is the only leftback weve got. O’Shea fills in if he isnt there, and O’Shea has been filling in for every position since his childhood. He is no genuine leftback. We dont have another genuine leftback apart from Fabio who is injured. So what is the solution? Either we hang on to Evra and expect him to sort his game out or go for another LB who will give him competition and also provide us width and cross properly, something which Evra cannot do. I only feel it is sensible to have enough cover for Evra and at the same time ask him to fight it out for his place.
November 11th, 2008 at 15:04
@UnitedUnited: We need another left back? And i thought swapping strikers was asking too much.
We’re fine on the LB position. If you remember, Evra played most of the games,non stop last season and he also featured on the Euro. Maybe, he a little bit jaded?
I think we’re fine on the LB spot. Evra is world class. We have a bright young prospect in Fabio and buying a new LB will seriously hamper his chances of progressing. And we have O’Shea to do the job in case of emergencies. Also, i remember that Jonny Evans can fill in on the left back spot. I think he plays as a LB for Northern Ireland.
November 11th, 2008 at 15:06
@Conor. From the games ive watched him play, he was in a more advanced position than he currently. Since I cant upload my memory, here are some clips that make me think he should be deployed as a winger, . Of course i know the moments captured dont reflect the whole game but they fairly suggest he will be better on the left.
Link
link2
November 11th, 2008 at 15:17
By what equation do we have 4 strikers?? If that equation has Ronaldo in it, please… he is winger. Yes he scored more than anyone last season, but he’s not a striker (even tho he was sometimes used as a striker last season).
I dont see any other striker in 1st team. So… we have 3 strikers, and we have room for one more. Now let’s go over the candidates again…
November 11th, 2008 at 15:18
@ RDJ : If we buy Huntelaar what do you think our formation would be? How well he fit into this team’s tactics?
November 11th, 2008 at 15:24
@UnitedUnited: @UnitedUnited: Evra’s played well this season. He’s the best left back in the world, bar none. You’re overreacting.
Red Ranter said he was the best striker in our team, when Rooney, Berbatov and Tevez were all fit? Tevez started off with a nice bit of form this season, but Rooney and Berbatov have done well together this season for the most part. And it shows that Tevez needs a run of games to play well, nothing to do with how SAF’s managing him because to put it bluntly he’s the worst player out of our three strikers.
November 11th, 2008 at 15:29
@Rahul: Or not. We have three strikers and that’s enough. Chelsea only have two. Liverpool have three, if you count Kuyt as a striker. We don’t need four.
By the way there’s a picture here which, if you go down the page a bit, shows Wes with his ankle all strapped up. Looks like he might still have a few weeks to go.
November 11th, 2008 at 15:35
@Shyam: Aaargh! why am i being dragged into this again? Dude, i’ve conceded that the possibility of us swapping Huntelaar for Tevez is next to zero. It was just me daydreaming.
About the tactics question, i think Huntelaar will play off the shoulders of the last defender as he always does. Berbatov and Rooney can do what comes to them naturally ie drop deep linking with the midfield and creating chances.
If you remember the Celtic game, there were a lot of occasions where Ronaldo crossed the ball to the six yard box only to be cleared by the defenders even after the introduction of Berbatov. Huntelaar would be the player for those kind of games where the opposition parks the bus in front of goal and in situations where we need to go route1.
November 11th, 2008 at 15:36
i think rooney should start and get his f*ck*ng hundreth goal,,seems like it has really put so much pressure in him getting to that landmark..who cares?
November 11th, 2008 at 15:44
@Shyam: Our formation would still be the basic 4-4-2 with our strikers being rotated according to the opposition. The whole point of me wanting Huntelaar was that he offers something different than what we have now whereas Tevez doesn’t.
November 11th, 2008 at 15:48
@RDJ: Tevez attacks players from deep, Berbatov dictates the more threatening attacking play and brings others into play and Rooney stretchs the defence with his movement up top.
Three different players.
November 11th, 2008 at 15:52
@Conor: Three different players with similar styles. All three likes to drop deep linking with our midfield. None of them plays off the shoulders of the last defender trying to get the odd deflections and scrappy goals.
November 11th, 2008 at 15:59
@RDJ: Rooney’s almost there. He does everything other than score scrappy goals.
We won the league without having either of our strikers doing that so you can see why we bought more of the same.
November 11th, 2008 at 16:25
@Conor: Not this season they’re not mate, Oh how the mighty are falling. Full of dreams my arse, its been more like nightmares both pre and now into the season. Shite, shite, shite performances, but one always hopes for improvements.
November 11th, 2008 at 16:26
Nevertheless, I will still be on the terraces tonight, cheering on the youngsters
.
November 11th, 2008 at 16:29
@Conor: I believe Wigan Warriors rugby league team are after Rooney following his rugby type kicking during the arsenal game. He would definately score for the rugby team, that’s for feckin sure.
November 11th, 2008 at 16:30
@RDJ: Glad you’ve noticed that too RDJ
.
November 11th, 2008 at 16:32
@Conor: We won the league without having either of our striker doing that because Ronaldo did that for them. But for how long?
November 11th, 2008 at 16:34
@Craig Mc:
you crack me up mate.
November 11th, 2008 at 16:41
@RDJ: Which country are you based in RDJ?.
.
November 11th, 2008 at 16:42
@RDJ : AS Conor said , those are 3 different players and what do you mean by they have similar styles just because they link up with midfield…that is strikers’ responsibility..No striker in this whole world can camp on the shoulder of last defender and wait for the midfielder’s final ball..Even nistelrooy was linking up with our midfield…
I dont know how many have seen Tevez play in South american leagues…he is an allround striker like Rooney but different styles…As he himself mentioned, i dont know what happened to his game…he was always on lookout for goals and through balls…he was a fine example of a genuine clever striker..He was a good finisher too…
The point here is the way Berbatov,Tevez and Rooney link up with midfield is different…Rooney likes to dig deep play in the hole behind strikers and make runs from midfield.Even though he works in attack he works off the ball most of the time……Tevez like to link up with play everytime and have the ball and make the game with one touch passes or clever balls (the authentic South American mentality…”i need the ball, i will make the game”)…Berbatov is a classy( n lazy..sorry) version of any European like striker… good in holding up the ball, good vision to finding out runs from midfield…always on the look out for the loose ball in the box.
This is a good mix of strikers…but the problem here is “Ronaldo”…the best player in the planet always like to cut inside and score goals…and our plays get narrowed down to center..The current tactics is not making use of the mix of players which we have…
Team management need to come up with better tactics…
November 11th, 2008 at 16:47
@Shyam: Shyam says, “Team management want to come up with better tactics -
. They would if they had a coach who was tactically good mate.
November 11th, 2008 at 16:47
@Craig Mc: India mate.
November 11th, 2008 at 16:50
@RDJ: O right, so are you able to get United games regularly shown on tv over there then?. Also, what do you think of Fergie’s wanting to bring United over to India for pre season tour ? next year is it.
November 11th, 2008 at 16:58
@ Craig : I have to say it…I am not sure if that was all CQ running the show last term..it seems like that way..
November 11th, 2008 at 16:58
@Shyam: When i say linking up with midfield, i mean running around like a headless chicken. RVN did not do that neither does Berbatov. But Berbatov is more of a creative forward rather than a goal threat.
Just look at the stats mate. Ronaldo was injured and missed the start of the season and whole of pre season. He is just on his way to full match sharpness and guess who’s the top goal scorer?
Players like Ronaldo is a goal threat. They end up with a couple of goals even if they are having a bad game. They are priceless and i want someone like him who is a no non sense direct goal threat type of player.
About Tevez, yeah he was really good in south america but that hardly counts now does it?
‘We’ll score more than you’ is the only tactic Fergie uses mate.
November 11th, 2008 at 17:05
@Craig Mc: Yep almost all of the United games are available to watch here in India. Espn covers the whole of the premier league and FA cup while champions league is available on another channel called ten sports.
United coming to India for pre season would be great imo. We are a developing country and the football market here is untapped. Did you know that Bayern came to India last summer and played in front of 100,000 fans? Believe me mate, United has far more fans in Inida that Bayern does.
November 11th, 2008 at 17:08
@Craig Mc: Poor form Craig. You don’t become one of the best manager’s of all time if you’re poor tactically.
@RDJ: Judging by the fact he’s already scored 6 goals in 8 league games I’d say it’ll continue right up until he leaves.
November 11th, 2008 at 17:14
@Conor: I meant the Madrid saga dude. And is it fair to thrust all the goal scoring burden on his able shoulders?
November 11th, 2008 at 17:26
@RDJ: Well then I’d say we have it for another two seasons. And yes it is fair, he’s just that good. To have that kind of goalscoring record when he’s missed chances like the one against Arsenal 2 or 3 times already just shows you how much of a goalscorer he is.
November 11th, 2008 at 17:30
@Shyam: Must say, I agree fully with your assessments.
I also found myself wondering what happened to Tevez. Before coming to United, he was a much better finnisher than Rooney. I mean, top scorer in the Brazilian league? He was also the only Argentinian - in known football history - that the Brazilians fell in love with. These are the same Brizilians that were entertained by the likes of Ronaldo (before he got fat), yet they loved him. I can guarentee that it was not because of some “headless chicken” running. I’m confused as to what happened?
November 11th, 2008 at 17:36
@ RDJ : Whats your point friend? You meant to say a striker who make runs and get to ball all the time are headless chickens??..How do you define strikers??..no offense intended..but just plain curiosity..
and whats with Ronaldo??…He is our best player dude..and every Utd fan loves to see him score goals..me too…my point was instead of looking for new players out there…we need to get our tactics right..
We’ll score more than you is an attitude friend…You need to get the right footballing tactics to make the mix of players work correctly..You cannot send 11 players to the field with a one line tactic - Score more than them..
November 11th, 2008 at 17:42
@Craig Mc: he won the Cup Winners Cup beating Real in the final with ABERDEEN and won the treble with Steve McLaren at no.2 so to say he is somehow poor tactically is stupid
Btw Fabio still injured
when will I get to see his (supposedly better than Rafael’s) talents
November 11th, 2008 at 17:51
@Shyam: My point is RVN and Huntelaar does not link up with the midfield as much as Rooney, Tevez or Berbatov. Don’t get me wrong, linking with the midfield is not a bad thing, but we have more than enough players to do that while there’s only Ronaldo to score the goals.
What if Ronaldo gets a long term injury? who do you think will shoulder the goal scoring responsibility? Rooney briefly looked like the old Wayne Rooney but it will take a lot more performances from him to convince me that he can take up the responsibility. And unlike other teams, our midfield (excluding Ronaldo) doesn’t score much goals.
November 11th, 2008 at 17:53
@Liam: Liam mate, did you see that Aberdeen match, it was more BRAWN than tactical nous.
November 11th, 2008 at 17:57
@RDJ: Wow sounds great RDJ, would be good then for United to come to India
.
November 11th, 2008 at 18:01
is this game even airing? cant find anything
November 11th, 2008 at 18:03
@Liam: Liam, I am sorry mate, but if you don’t think United were EXTREMELY fortunate to win the CL final game against Bayern to get that treble, then you were not watching the same game as the rest of the world. Bayern were hitting the posts like there was no tomorrow, they should have beaten us by a landslide, but luckily, Ole and Teddy rescued it to make history for us. Even after our late goals, Bayern were unlucky not to equalise in last few minutes. Their name wasn’t on the cup, ours was, and again nothing to do with tactical nous.
November 11th, 2008 at 18:05
@Conor: You can IF you have the kind of players we had during that era. Those who were homegrown, and Keano, Cole, etc etc etc. Anyway, we just differ in how we see things that’s all.
November 11th, 2008 at 18:09
@RDJ : Then we have to assume that we purchased the wrong man this summer…we should have gone after Huntelaar!!..Giving away Tevez we have 2 strikers who does not link up with midfield well or make runs..and moreover we still dont know what Manucho can give us…so instead jumping into conclusions lets wait and see what this team can do..
and why do we have to rely on a 40 goal striker when we have one 30 goal midfielder and three 15 goal strikers…Goals came thick n fast last season without Berbatov..Thts why i am saying we have the right mix of players…Lets just wait for them to click or allow team mgmt to think about it..
November 11th, 2008 at 18:09
Match links someone? Please……..
November 11th, 2008 at 18:12
Right, I am off to the pub to meet the lads, then after a few nips of the old bevvy to keep us warm on the terraces, I will be singing my heart out for the young lads. Come on MAN-U-CHO, I want to see what you can do for us boyyo, cos you look impressive in the reserve team
. That’s if Fergie lets you get on the pitch. Welbeck 
, bit shite from what I’ve seen, but lets see if he can at least keep his balance tonight. Maybe he will shock me, I hope so. See you all later, when I have thawed out from freezing my buns as OT weather bites 
.
November 11th, 2008 at 18:16
@Craig Mc: We had those players because Sir Alex knew how to bring them through, knew which players to buy and knew how to set up the team tactically and motivation-wise.
If he was tactically inept he wouldn’t be the manager of one of the biggest clubs in the world. Not a fucking chance.
November 11th, 2008 at 18:17
@RDJ: It’s not on TV anywhere around the world today, there’ll be no streams it seems.
November 11th, 2008 at 18:20
@Liam: SAF is not poor tactically, he’s limited. ~nuance~
My logic behind that is to look at a manager who is a proven tactical master - Mourinho (not good on the eye I know) and compare the trophy cabinet - would you bet that after a career as long as Fergie, the Special one would not have won a great number of honours too? More important, he may achieve European CL suceess more easily than SAF becase of his tactical ability. How many great United teams should have won the Champions League but didn’t? (By that I mean we were clearly among the best, if not the best in Europe)
Dortmund
Porto
The 99-00 season (where I thought we played better all round football than in 98-99)
I will not go as far as sayong that the reason we have not won more CLs is entirely due to Fergie’s limited tactical ability, but it certainly contributed to.
Just look at how often Italian teams struggling in their domestic championship win the CL. (AC Milan anyone?)
I know I may sound fickle, but I wouldn’t swap Fergie for any other manager in the business
BUT, Fergie is the best man manager in the business, and at the end of the day that makes him the best all round manager.
November 11th, 2008 at 18:24
A urgent message/comment on united this season and going forward from where we are now…… the purchase of berbatov has somewhat created a Tino Asprilla Newcastle 1996 situation for us…..where Newcastle were crusing to the league title but went out and bought Asprilla and we all know what happened next!
Its a case of too much of a good thing. We have the best 4 strikers in world football, lets use them or else lets revert to how we played last season & how it won us a magical double.
I think fergie should asap revert to the formation that we played last season with Ronaldo, Rooney & Tevez interchanging positions and a midfield of Carrick anderson & Fletcher, play Brown as soon as he is fit and keep Neville in reserve. We need a balanced settled team to get points asap as 8 point between us and the top is no laughing matter and should be addressed asap. As for our luxury that is Berbatov, I would keep him on the bench for the moment to show him 1 he has to earn the right to be in this team and 2 introduce him for the last 20 mins as a impact sub until he truly finds his feet/confidence/ place in the team.
My dream eventually ( & it can happen through a slow phased intro/plan) would be to play tevez on the left with Berb & Rooney up top & Ronaldo on the right, tell them to interchange at will…..come on fergie make it happen!
November 11th, 2008 at 18:38
WTF ITS NOT AIRING ANYWHERE?! THAT CANT BE RIGHT
November 11th, 2008 at 18:51
@Conor: Darn it! If it wasn’t for the f#cking Arsenal v Wigan match, i’d be watching the United game on t.v. Stupid gooners
November 11th, 2008 at 18:53
lads its advertised here @ 8pm GMT, hopefully thats right!
November 11th, 2008 at 19:01
@phoenix red: Here where?
November 11th, 2008 at 19:18
http://www.footballlivestreaming.blogspot.com
November 11th, 2008 at 19:34
Can it really not be on anywherE?
November 11th, 2008 at 19:36
@donibrasco: Nobody was calling a Rooney a pussy when he was on a great run scoring and playing well. So he has one bad game and the fickle nature of fans rears it’s ugly head and calls for Senior Smoke n Mirrors to start instead. As if you are going to see any goals from that walkabout addict. Tevez is not as good as either Rooney or Berbatov. His game , his confidence and his attitude has regressed dramatically this season and frankly, I’d play Manucho or Welbeck over him. For die hard Carlito fans, I suggest you get used to cheering for him on another club next season. I’ll god smacked and in total shock if he returns with a hefty contract in tow. Not gonna happen. I’m sure Fergie would rather spend the money on someone who can actually come into a game and leave it with a goal or two.
November 11th, 2008 at 19:37
@RDJ: I’ll second that emotion.
November 11th, 2008 at 19:40
http://www.myp2p.eu/broadcast.php?matchid=24012&part=sports
Check back later, there might be some more links nearer kick off.
November 11th, 2008 at 19:42
Alright, I’ve checked all of my souces, I actually don’t think the match is being broadcast, period. Which is a little weird because it is being filmed, Sentanta USA are replaying it on Thursday. Grumble.
November 11th, 2008 at 19:42
@UnitedUnited: Agreed. Even if Tevez was to go, there is no room for a player the caliber of a Huntelaar. He is starting material and would not sign with a team where he would be on the bench or where he would have a very stiff fight to start. He shouldn’t have to earn a starting spot because he’s fantastic. Therefore I see him going to Spain and probably Real Madrid to eventually replace an aging van Nistelrooy. And it’s a crying shame too because as much as I love Berba, I still feel Huntelaar would have been the better player for us. Had Huntelaar had to good chances to score on Saturday we would have come out of there with a point or possibly a win. His finishing rate is truly prolific.
November 11th, 2008 at 19:45
@Conor: Speaking about competition at Left Back for Evra, has anyone heard what the deal is with Fabio. I kind of have dreams of watching the twins man the two fullback spots permanently for us in the near future. Where are you Fabio?
November 11th, 2008 at 19:51
@Conor: There is a big difference between Fergie having managed four strikers in 1999 and him managing 3 now. Solksjaer and Sheringham both willingly and unselfishly accepted their role as part time starters and full time super subs. Solksjaer had always put the team ahead of his own selfish needs and Sheringham was at the age where he had no problem playing fewer minutes but making his minutes count. He also played the attacking midfield role a lot too. Now with Tevez, you have a player with proud Latin blood running through his veins. His pride and his ego has taken a major hit and I’m sorry, but he is not nor can he be expected to be as unselfish as Ole. He wants to play and start and if United won’t give him that, he will go elsewhere where he will start. Greed, pride and ego is common place for today’s highly paid athlete. The super talent who picks team over personal gain is a dying breed indeed. And don’t think that there would be any difference if it were Rooney or Berbatov who were placed in that position.
November 11th, 2008 at 19:51
Has anybody got a USTREAM feed???????
November 11th, 2008 at 19:51
i read that fabio had a shoulder injury somewhere……..
November 11th, 2008 at 19:52
@RDJ: Ahhh! Now that would be nice. Still, highly improbable.
November 11th, 2008 at 19:54
@ Grognard : I second you on thought that we got the wrong man..I always had that during the summer when Berbatov rumours surfaced.. Berbatov is brilliant as a player but i doubt whether he was the right person we looking for..
Huntelaar would have been our right answer to Liverpool’s Torres…!! I was pissed when Torres opted for Pool rather than us..
November 11th, 2008 at 19:55
@RDJ: It’s definitely time we saw more of Jonny Evans and since our two CB’s are Gods, we need to see him more at LB. To Hell with the awkward as Hell and highly limited John O’Shea. A good servant but basically a big step down from Evra. Lets see what Evans can do in that slot.
November 11th, 2008 at 19:55
BREAKING NEWS!!! Hargreaves have just had an operation on his right knee. The operation has been succesful and he will have another one on his left knee in a few weeks. He will miss the reminder of the season.
Source: MUTV.
November 11th, 2008 at 19:59
damn
we need someone like hargo right about now
November 11th, 2008 at 19:59
@Grognard: Fabio had surgery in his shoulder because of an injury. He had it in the start of September and he wont play until December/start of January.
November 11th, 2008 at 20:01
Yeah, manutd.com is telling us now that the operation has beena a succes. Get well Hargo, we miss you.
November 11th, 2008 at 20:01
No incoming links as yet for a stream for the game, although there are cameras at the ground; and recording, so fingers crossed nearer the time we might be in luck. Failing that, yee olde faithful wireless tuned to 5live lol
Fabio still out with his dislocated shoulder (well, he’s on the mend apparently) but still, looking forward to seeing how some of the other young ‘uns play.
Peas out for now, will jot back if I catch a link.
November 11th, 2008 at 20:04
Live stream (from MU TV)
http://redlog.pl/2008/11/11/wideo-z-meczu-manchester-united-queens-park-rangers/#live
November 11th, 2008 at 20:05
Anderson, Fletch, Carrick and Scholes better prove that they can do a pretty good job. I know Hargo didnt play for a lot of games, but he was fit for the games against Chelksi, Arsenal, Barcelona, Lyon, Roma and Liverpool last year. Scholes is getting older and has lost some of his brilliance and Fletch is really inconsistent. Anderson is young and Carrick is… well, he is Carrick. A good player on his days, but can fade out of games easily. I cant remember watching a game where Hargo didnt make his mark. Hopefully Anderson will prove Fergie right! That he is the heir to Roy Keane.
November 11th, 2008 at 20:05
@Shyam: It’s all about one’s personal preferences mate. I for one have never been a fan of the headless chicken approach used by Tevez. For me there are not enough goals and an over expenditure of energy doing useless and totally unnecessary chasing of players for a forlorn break. I’d rather he save that energy and troll the 18 yeard box and wait for a pass, a ricochet, rebound or deflection and pounce on it with more energy. Quite often Tevez gasses himself out of a game like Rooney by using up his energy reserve doing things that rarely turn out to produce goals. Berbatov on the other hand looks positively lazy in comparison but since his arrival he leads the EPL in assists and has scored 5 goals for the team in all competition. All this without really having perfectly become comfortable with his teammates or the teams constantly changing strategy and tactics. All you have to do is the math. The quickest way from point A to point B is a direct and straight line. Both Tevez and Rooney could learn and lengthen their careers by several seasons from that.
November 11th, 2008 at 20:06
a midfield hardman is certain to come in, when the TW opens in january. My no.1 choice would diarra. until then, appiah?
November 11th, 2008 at 20:07
@radzio: How is that possible? MUTV is not showing the match live?
November 11th, 2008 at 20:08
http://www.myp2p.eu/broadcast.php?matchid=24012&part=sports may need to d/load or refresh link before game to find sites using windows media player to stream failing that try http://www.justin.tv/ and see if they’re showing it. Both sites great for games that aren’t televised or that you can’t get ticket for.
November 11th, 2008 at 20:09
@Craig Mc: Too true mate. That game was heart wrenching for me because it was my two favorite teams against each other. And I’m sorry folks but Bayern not only had that game won, but they deserved to win it it by 3-0 or even 4-0. A few great saves by Schmeichel and goal post hit by Scholl on a great counter and then a bicycle kick hit the cross bar from Jancker just before the roof fell down on them. In fact, United have been extremely fortunate to win both their European Cups. Thank the Lord for small mercies.
November 11th, 2008 at 20:12
@NicoQB: Lets also not forget that that in his limited ability to tactically alter games, Ferguson is also very stubborn. It took him a number of years and failure in Europe before he altered the style of play and system we used in order to win. Mourinho would have altered all that in his first game’s halftime break. Big difference.
And yes, nobody has been a better an manager at the club level in recent memory. That is his main strength and it’s a vital one to have.
November 11th, 2008 at 20:12
United team:
PIG
Rafael Evans Neville Oshea
Possebon Gibson Anderson
Park Tevez Nani
November 11th, 2008 at 20:14
@Grognard: God is a United fan, indeed!
November 11th, 2008 at 20:14
@RDJ: London tv always wins out in scenarios like these. BASTARDS!
November 11th, 2008 at 20:15
dan(u-ol) agree with u on that mate, definitely expect us 2 make a move for appiah, he is a very decent player.
November 11th, 2008 at 20:15
Hargreaves out for season.
November 11th, 2008 at 20:21
@RedDevilEddy: Well that’s good news……I think. I’m glad it was successful but I am disappointed to hear that it has to be done on both knees. I thought his problem was only on one knee. They probably detected the degeneration in both. My neighbor has just had her knee operated on due to degenerative problems and she will be getting the other one done in six months. Totally different problem but it sounds that this is a problem that would have eventually affected the other knee too. This tells me that it was a genetic trait and not brought on by injury or by playing on it. All the best to Hargo. I wish him a speedy and successful recovery and look forward to him solving our midfield problems next year. And we all love him here in Canada. Love that Hargo!
November 11th, 2008 at 20:26
@Grognard: Its partly good news I would say. This means he will play for us in the future and he will probably be back to his best. Id rather lose him for a year and then have him 100%fit from then rather than have him play 20-30 games a season only 50% fit.
November 11th, 2008 at 20:27
@RedDevilEddy: Have I read well? Neville at centree back??? WTF?
November 11th, 2008 at 20:27
United team:
GK: Kuszczack
RB: Rafael
CB: Evans
CB: Neville
LB: Oshea
RM: Park
CM: Gibson
CM: Possebon
LM: Nani
CF: Anderson
ST: Tevez
November 11th, 2008 at 20:28
please don’t tell me thats the team REDEVILEDDY becuase i wanted to see welbeck more than anything
November 11th, 2008 at 20:28
@NicoQB: According to MUTV you read well. Unfortunately it looks like he will play CB. But he mat be RB with Oshea in the middle and Rafael on the left. I think that would be the best choice.
November 11th, 2008 at 20:29
@Mr.Muhozi: It is.
November 11th, 2008 at 20:30
@RedDevilEddy: are you sure, saf said welbeck was a definite starter…
November 11th, 2008 at 20:32
@dan(u-ol): Wierd. Cause he aint in the starting line up. Maybe he has gotten injured or something. I dont know the bench yet, so I cant say for sure.
November 11th, 2008 at 20:49
No linkage?
November 11th, 2008 at 20:50
subs:
12. Ben Foster (GK)
15. Nemanja Vidic
16. Michael Carrick
19. Danny Welbeck
26. Alberto Manucho
35. Tom Cleverley
36. David Gray
November 11th, 2008 at 20:50
Man Utd
* 29 Kuszczak
* 21 R Da Silva
* 02 Neville
* 23 Evans
* 22 O’Shea
* 28 Gibson
* 34 Possebon
* 08 Anderson
* 17 Nani
* 32 Tevez
* 13 Park
Substitutes
* 12 Foster,
* 15 Vidic,
* 16 Carrick,
* 19 Welbeck,
* 26 Manucho,
* 35 Cleverley,
* 36 Gray
full teams, im pissed about welbeck, waited nearly 6 weeks to watch him play again, and hes not even starting grrr
November 11th, 2008 at 20:52
What did foster do to Fergie?
November 11th, 2008 at 20:53
Ok. It has been 2 Hours since I have OFFICIALLY Ended Gears Of War2! And I Cant wait for GEARS OF WAR 3! Great game. The Thought has gotten me wet!
Oh. And by the way. Guys. GEARS OF WAR 2 Is a MUST!
I’m coming for you! Locust Queen!
November 11th, 2008 at 20:54
@Beachryan: Nothing. Its just that Fergie has chosen to play each goalkeeper every second game. Like Boro: PIG. Celtic: Foster. QPR: PIG. Villareal: Foster. And so it continues…
November 11th, 2008 at 20:56
@Red Diablo: Im gonna buy that game. Know any secrets?
November 11th, 2008 at 20:59
Anyone got anything working?
November 11th, 2008 at 21:00
@RedDevilEddy: I could live with O’Shea in the middle. I always thought he delivered ok performances there. Neville however…
@Beachryan: Nothing, except that in his mind Pig and Foster are equal, so he’ll likely alternate their appearances…
@Mr.Muhozi: RR said open thread, so… here goes
do you speak portuguese? I’ve been looking for someone who can give me a general translation of what this song means…
No céu da minha rua
Da Alfama não chama,
Nem prende as intenções.
Às vezes nem a lua
Lá mora, embora
Lá chegue em seus clarões
Mutilados a telhados
Que se abraçam fraternais
E o céu da minha rua
A lua, recua
Limita-se aos beirais
Com Alfama céu não rima
Porque sempre o céu é pouco
Quando olhamos lá pra cima.
Mas o céu não nega o troco
Cá embaixo a quem se estima
Vai daí ser voz corrente
Que na Alfama toda a gente
Traz o céu no coração
É feliz por natureza
Ninguém pede mais riqueza
Que saúde, amor e pão!
I love this song but I’m just completely clueless about what Amalia is Rodrigues may be singing about…
November 11th, 2008 at 21:01
Neville and rafael playing 2nite hopefully that means Brown will get his chance at the weekend
November 11th, 2008 at 21:02
@ Grognard: I am not a hard core fan of wasting energy chasing the ball on the field..I am with you on strikers conservating the enrgy and focus more on offensive side of the field….I have played myself as a striker and be part of teams in India and now North America until i quit due to a torn ACL in my right knee..
The big fan i am of is the desire and determination Latin American players show..they dont sulk..not a bit..
November 11th, 2008 at 21:03
@Duffstuff: Wes is injured…
November 11th, 2008 at 21:04
@NicoQB: sorry nico my brasilian blood is very diluted and out of the four languages i speak, portugese is not one of them, i think i may know someone who speaks it so i may try, but my portugese is very limited to brasilian teams towns and football terms
November 11th, 2008 at 21:06
game link
enjoy people
November 11th, 2008 at 21:08
@NicoQB: Hey I don’t know portugese but I would like to listen to it… Any idea where I can get its MP3? And whats the song name btw?
November 11th, 2008 at 21:08
Yeah, Neville plays as a CB.
November 11th, 2008 at 21:09
@Mr.Muhozi: thats not working for me…
November 11th, 2008 at 21:10
yeah pretty sure taht link doesn’t work, thanks for the try. Seems like its not on
November 11th, 2008 at 21:11
@Mr.Muhozi: how do you watch it on that site???
November 11th, 2008 at 21:13
sorry dan, its not working
i thought it would work, i just posted it without trying im listening to the game on radio whilst looking for it, ill post one that works soon
sorry
November 11th, 2008 at 21:15
Fuck I’m relegated to watching this arsenal shit
November 11th, 2008 at 21:16
@Mr.Muhozi: its cool mate, its cool.
November 11th, 2008 at 21:18
It feels wierd listening to a game on the radio…
November 11th, 2008 at 21:19
Anyone got a working link up?
November 11th, 2008 at 21:19
Only in the UK would they have a match that could generate revenue somewhere, record it, and then not allow anyone to watch it. This country is ridiculous sometimes…
November 11th, 2008 at 21:21
Well said Ryan
November 11th, 2008 at 21:22
@Beachryan: lol i know i know, it’s amazing there’s about 10 millions people staying up to watch this game or doing everything in their power to watch it, but no they had to now show it, how dumb
November 11th, 2008 at 21:23
Score update guys?
November 11th, 2008 at 21:23
hargreaves is out for the rest of the season. he played a vital role down the stretch last year to help united with the double, with scholes out and nani struggling in the midfield fergie better get something together before we fall too far behind
November 11th, 2008 at 21:24
http://www.fcfootballblog.com/2008/11/11/manchester-united-vs-qpr-live-tonight/
Stream for an Arse match
November 11th, 2008 at 21:25
why the fuck is he starting park? he should have added another striker instead, Its time to see what Manucho or welbeck can do. At this point in Parks career we already know what he cant and can do. He is never gonna be more than a squad player so quit giving him valuable minutes.
November 11th, 2008 at 21:26
http://live.manutdvids.com/
Commentary is on here
November 11th, 2008 at 21:29
I think I agree with that assessment. He won’t partner up Tevez with anyone, what’s the point you know, he’s really wasting him.
November 11th, 2008 at 21:29
0-0, sounds like ando and tevez have tested goalie, but nothing doing yet…
November 11th, 2008 at 21:29
@Beachryan: Totally agree I had two pre-match links working, unfortunately both stopped at kick-off.
How can a Manchester United competitive match not be shown live somewhere? the mind wonders…
Looks like it’s yee olde faithful wireless; radio 5live for me.
Gutted.
But, come on the lads!
November 11th, 2008 at 21:29
Hargreaves just had an operation on his right knee. The operation was successful, but he’ll be out for the rest of the season. He’ll have another operation on his right knee in a few days.
Fuck! this is bad news. No Hargo for the rest of the season.
November 11th, 2008 at 21:29
@RDJ: 0-0. Tevez has had the biggest chance, cutting in from the left and having a good shot saved by the keeper. Wait, Andy just had a big chance! Hitting a low shot from 18-yards and could have become a great goal. But Cerny saved it.
Great shot and a great chance. 
Keep it up Andy!
November 11th, 2008 at 21:31
@RDJ: I posted the news an hour ago.
November 11th, 2008 at 21:32
@RedDevilEddy: how are you watching the match?
November 11th, 2008 at 21:32
@johnsom33: well said, park to me, is a supersub to annoy a tiring fullback late into a game, or give a starting winger a rest against weak opposition, let welbeck show his stuff infront of the stetford end
November 11th, 2008 at 21:34
@dan(u-ol): Listening to it on radio.
November 11th, 2008 at 21:37
@RedDevilEddy: How are you listening to it on the radio? I can’t listen to BBC’s radio because it is only for UK…
November 11th, 2008 at 21:38
Anderson looks really fired up to score tonight. Message to Grog: He has had control of the ball in the opposition 18-yard box and shot 3 times. I hope he will score today. He has had one shot that the keeper saved, a shot form 8 yards that went just wide and one of his runs between 4 QPR players but the keeper stopped him. ANDERSON!!
November 11th, 2008 at 21:39
@TurkishRED: Manutd.com. MUTV online, Live. Im a member.
November 11th, 2008 at 21:40
If anyone’s going to score it is going to be either Ando or Rafael… One of the Brazilians.
November 11th, 2008 at 21:41
Anderson in the 18 yard box, shot rebounds off a defender and then Andy for a goal-kick. Andy and Tevez are combining well.
November 11th, 2008 at 21:45
@TurkishRED: I thought about paying, but it’s a bit much for me… I used to listen to it all the time in 06-07 when it was free, but now they’re charging for it.
November 11th, 2008 at 21:45
Does feel strange listening to United, as opposed to watching them.
Come on Anderson lad; get yourself off the mark tonight!
Double figures in corner kicks already!
Peas out.
November 11th, 2008 at 21:46
Tevez with the biggest chance of the half. Oshea manages to keep the ball in play and crosses for Tevez. He flicks the ball just wide.
UNITED!!!
November 11th, 2008 at 21:51
@Mr.Muhozi: Haha, that’s all right, I just thought you of all people could help me with this, what with you always talking about what’s going on in brazilian football!
@AndyCR7:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OH4M5EwW9g
Have you heard of Amalia Rodrigues? Beautiful voice!!! I discovered her through one of my favourite online actvities, that of surfing on one of those “blogspot” music sites and downloading a random album just because the blogger raves about it!
For me its the modern high tech equivalent of butterflyu cathcing!
http://totallyfuzzy.blogspot.com/
Here is a great place to get great random music - beware though, usually the focus is on the more “arty” un-commercial types.
November 11th, 2008 at 21:52
Half time, 0-0. QPR playing with 10 defenders, but United still creating lots of chances.
November 11th, 2008 at 21:53
Huh? RR I can’t seem to post anything!!!
November 11th, 2008 at 21:53
Well that one worked!
November 11th, 2008 at 21:56
Bizarre! I copy pasted the comment that wouldnt post and now it says duplicate comment detected! THough I can’t see it on the thread…
@Mr.Muhozi: Haha, that’s all right, I just thought you of all people could help me with this, what with you always talking about what’s going on in brazilian football!
@AndyCR7:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OH4M5EwW9g
Have you heard of Amalia Rodrigues? Beautiful voice!!! I discovered her through one of my favourite online actvities, that of surfing on one of those “blogspot” music sites and downloading a random album just because the blogger raves about it!
For me its the modern high tech equivalent of butterflyu cathcing!
http://totallyfuzzy.blogspot.com/
Here is a great place to get great random music - beware though, usually the focus is on the more “arty” un-commercial types.
November 11th, 2008 at 21:56
According to my sources, erhm, Anderson, Tevez and Nani has been our best players. Anderson has looked really up for this game and if its one game he is gonna score in, it should today. At least if he continues like he has done so far. 3 shots, 2 on target. ANDY!!!
November 11th, 2008 at 21:57
Bizarre, I copy pasted the comment I posted and it says duplicate comment detected, though I can’t see it on the thread… Site going crazy RR?
November 11th, 2008 at 21:58
@Mr.Muhozi: Haha, that’s all right, I just thought you of all people could help me with this, what with you always talking about what’s going on in brazilian football!
November 11th, 2008 at 22:02
@AndyCR7:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OH4M5EwW9g
I discovered her through one of my favorite online activities, that of surfing haphazrdly on one of those blogspot music sites and downloading an album just because the blogger raves about it!
Its like the modern high tech equivalent of butterfly catching, if you get my drift…
November 11th, 2008 at 22:06
@RedDevilEddy: Can it be that we’re finally getting to see the famed AM, new ronaldinho that the papers sold us? Just our luck, for the match not to be broadcasted!
Perhaps if Ando was really once given free reign as AM he could really live up to the bill - even if he turns out to be half the player Ronaldinho(at his peak) was he’ll still be one hell of a player!
November 11th, 2008 at 22:06
@NicoQB: It’s alright, i watch a lot of brasilian football, so if you want to know about brasilian prospects im your guy i know more than that dude over at BBC :smile:, i hope i can do a mourinho and get into footbal manager via translating
November 11th, 2008 at 22:08
@RedDevilEddy: How’s my favorite youth Possebon doing? Any props?
November 11th, 2008 at 22:10
@Mr.Muhozi: Well you’d have to develop an ego first! Are you fantastic?
November 11th, 2008 at 22:12
@NicoQB: Nothing special, but no mistakes. Qiet, but effective game.
November 11th, 2008 at 22:14
We’ve apparently decided against shooting on goal this evening, preferring to just pass it a lot
November 11th, 2008 at 22:15
@NicoQB: i have the ego, i am more than special, i am the extraordinary one
and i can read the game at a university level, but im no where near grognard 
BRING ON WELBECK
November 11th, 2008 at 22:16
@RedDevilEddy: @Beachryan: I hope Possebon tries his luck from distance… He’s got a smooth belter of a shot apparently…
Ack, I’m off to work a bit on my assignments… Back in 45 min…
November 11th, 2008 at 22:20
5 live are saying ando just had a free kick go out for a throw in. They’re pissing themselves. We’re going to lose on penalties.
November 11th, 2008 at 22:23
@RedDevilEddy: See this is the thing, a shot from eight yards out and he shot it wide.
Isn’t that typical. Like I have said many times before, he couldn’t hit the side a barn if he was 3 feet away. Pathetic shooting and focusing skills. It’s all about mechanics and composure and he lacks in both those areas when it comes to shooting the ball.
November 11th, 2008 at 22:23
OOOOHHH!
Park hit the post! 
November 11th, 2008 at 22:24
@Grognard: Under severe pressure. He did well to put in a shot there, could have been corner actually.
November 11th, 2008 at 22:25
tevez needs a strike parnet take of park, and bring on danny, come on anderson no more pathetic free kicks please
November 11th, 2008 at 22:29
My God Arsenal is smoking EPL rival Wigan 3-0 using their kids and we can’t even score against QPR. We have become a very pathetic lot and it’s all got to do with stupid Italian tactics that don’t work. Fergie, wake the fuck up already and start coaching no fear football again. Man he is terrified of losing now and thus, he’s afraid to let the team loose on an opponent. It’s only the fucking Carling Cup. I couldn’t care less if we lost. Just let the boys loose and stop restricting the way they play. We are more boring than a Serie B side these days. Shoot the fucking ball already.
November 11th, 2008 at 22:30
Big-big, chance for Anderson. A great shot that was heading for the top corner, but Cerny with an amazing save. Ramage clears.
November 11th, 2008 at 22:31
@Mr.Muhozi: Let me get this right. Anderson who has never scored a goal nor has even come close to scoring a goal for us is taking our free kicks? It’s official, Fergie has lost his mind.
November 11th, 2008 at 22:32
@Grognard: Eh, Grog? Weve been killing QPR, weve shot every time weve got a chance! Its just QPRs mentality that ruines for us. They defend with 10 people, but were still creating lots of chances.
November 11th, 2008 at 22:33
any one else listening to the bbc coverage they’re rippin into the players
November 11th, 2008 at 22:35
@Duffstuff: yep, typical alan green, dirty scouse bastard.
November 11th, 2008 at 22:37
welbeck yes!!!!!!
November 11th, 2008 at 22:37
Welbeck on for Possebon who hasnt played very well. Made some sloppy passes. Its Danny!
November 11th, 2008 at 22:38
god, alan green say welblack, the other dude says welblank
November 11th, 2008 at 22:40
Penalty!!!!!
November 11th, 2008 at 22:40
PENALTY FOR UNITED!!!
November 11th, 2008 at 22:40
PENALTY!!!!!!!!
November 11th, 2008 at 22:40
Goal finally this will give Tevez a bit of confidence
November 11th, 2008 at 22:41
GOAL FROM TEVEZ!
November 11th, 2008 at 22:42
TEVEZ
November 11th, 2008 at 22:42
FFS! Finally.
November 11th, 2008 at 22:42
I wanted Anderson to take it….
But well done Tevez!
November 11th, 2008 at 22:43
YES hopefully that will restore tevez’s confidence
dan(u-ol) couldn’t agree more about Alan Green and he is complaining about the players doing a bad job
November 11th, 2008 at 22:43
@Grognard: yes groggy, though to be fair to anderson, he was able to take a free kick or two back in his old days when he was fearless and before he outgrew his shooting boots
November 11th, 2008 at 22:44
@RedDevilEddy: Must be frustrating watching the remake of “The Gang That Couldn’t Shoot Straight” then. This season if it isn’t one problem with the team, it’s another. You know we are all just going to have to sit down one of these days and admit to ourselves and to each other that 2008/09 is not going to be our season. I know that sounds defeatist but sports can be like that. You can get a real sense that sometimes the ball isn’t going to bounce and roll your way. Hopefully I’m wrong but I know I’m not because it’s not one problem this team needs to solve. We have several major issues that have caused us to derail a bit. We’ll still finish in the top 4 but I just can’t see this being a year where we win any kind of silverware. I’ll keep my fingers crossed. Even I would love to see the Grognard wrong at times like this.
November 11th, 2008 at 22:45
@Duffstuff: they guy can barely pronounce some words, even names, he should just shut up and carry on looking for rats in his council house, dirty scouse bastard
November 11th, 2008 at 22:47
http://live.manutdvids.com/1.html Link for game
November 11th, 2008 at 22:48
@Grognard: i had a really bad feeling about this, considering how my other teams i support faired, new york Yankees had a pathetic season, and we’re just inconsistent, the new england patriots lost GOD A.K.A Tom Brady with the first tackle of the season, and a dirty illegal one it was, Brasil had a poor Olympics and dunga is still alive, United were my last hope and so far the curse of 08 is carrying on, the double seems centuries ago
November 11th, 2008 at 22:49
@TurkishRED: ilove you
November 11th, 2008 at 22:50
damn nanniiiiii
November 11th, 2008 at 22:50
@TurkishRED: a little bit late eh
November 11th, 2008 at 22:54
lovely dribble by welbeck great close control i wish he started hopefully he can play against stoke, but im not going to hold my breath
i actually want an equaliser so i can more of the lad, he seems to be a good talent
and nev makes a mistake bloody hell retire
November 11th, 2008 at 22:58
@Grognard: You may think like that, everybody may think like that. But I never wont. I am forever an optimist, and I will be as long as life keeps smilng at me.
So there is nothing that will make me change my mentality. I believe we can do everything. Its not me being spoiled, its me being a complete nutter. 
November 11th, 2008 at 23:00
welbeck needs to play more fitst team football.
November 11th, 2008 at 23:02
@dan(u-ol): Sorry, that was the time someone found it and posted it on that site… It only would have been really useful if it went to penalties.
November 11th, 2008 at 23:04
@dan(u-ol): So does Tevez.
November 11th, 2008 at 23:04
@TurkishRED: thats exactly what i was thinking, im kinda disappointed that it didnt…
November 11th, 2008 at 23:04
Nani should have buried. And Fuck the Patriots. G-MEN!!
November 11th, 2008 at 23:10
@dan(u-ol): lol, I actually caught myself hoping QPR would equalize for pens!
I wonder why no one found that channel in Korea sooner. Korea always trys to show Ji Sung…
November 11th, 2008 at 23:12
@dan(u-ol): lol, I had almost wished that QPR equalized!
November 11th, 2008 at 23:17
@Mr.Muhozi:
how you gonna like the Yankees and the Patriots. that dont add up.
November 11th, 2008 at 23:53
@Grognard: Grog I froze my feckin buns and everything else on the terraces tonight. We were sat near some QPR fans, and they were OK to be honest. Said to us when viewing our WRETCHED shooting, Wow, we thought you would massacre us tonight, but you really are U-shite-ed aren’t you?. We all laughed, because what could we say mate, our shooting once again was feckin embarrasing. They said they watched the Arsenal game, and felt the senior shooters are every bit as bad as the reserves were tonight. Reckon that we really did win everything because of reliance on Ronnie, and they feel this season is proving it so far. Our support was still chanting and keeping up the banter though, but QPR travelling support on opposite side of ground to us, were fantastic too.
People keep saying that Fergie is tactically excellent, yeah right. We were crying out loud, screaming practically, for someone up front who had at least a chance of geeting his head to some balls. We had corner after corner, so superior was our possession, but though he had Man-U-cho on the bench, he persisted to play the three dwarfs. United fans cannot blame any of the punters doing the commentary on our game tonight. It was blatantly bloody obvious that we needed to change things up front, Nani (little shit) was hopeless tonight, as was Anderson and Tev. I mean, come on, 3 midgets up front together. Fergie has proven to me in his aftermatch report, that his subs are not tactically made to make a difference. He said for all the world to hear, I will just put on players who need games. So Forget about us fans who suffer, he just puts players on to give them minutes on the pitch. And that is why we are as we are this season so far. I don’t think I could have found more shite down the local sewer works (where our shooting) was concerned than I found on the OT pitch tonight. Our build up play was good, good, good, but we got the same disease as the first team start where the final third and wild shooting is concerned.
November 12th, 2008 at 0:17
@Conor: Well you have your opinion on Fergie Conor, and I have mine. I agree with Roy Keane, who says Fergie is a good administrative and man manager, BUT he is not a good tactician. He admits so many times openly on tv Conor, that he brings on players who need minutes. Nowhere do you hear him say that he changes players for tactical reasons, because HE DOESN’T.
November 12th, 2008 at 0:31
Hiya all, I’m back. Just finished trawling through a terribly difficult test procedure of SPSS - T-test. And I think I’ve done it right! That’s why I’m hyped up!
Reading the posts it seems that we’ve once again been underwhelming…
So was there anyone worthy of MOTM?
Someone please post player ratings… thanks
November 12th, 2008 at 0:35
http://www.gettyimages.com/Search/Search.aspx?contractUrl=2&language=en-US&family=editorial&p=manchester%20united&assetType=image&src=quick#2
Just to lighten the mood, pics of the players at the UNICEF gala…
RATE THE WAGS, lol
November 12th, 2008 at 0:41
@NicoQB: Raphael from the sound of it.
November 12th, 2008 at 0:43
@Craig Mc: When did he say his subs are to help them get games? Did he say this for the Carling cup game or the prem? It makes sense if its the Carling Cup games, cus thats exactly what Fergie said he was gonna use the CC games for, to help players who don’t get field time in the prem. I don’t believe we’d be struggling in a prem game and Fergie would take off our only chance of scoring and bring in a player cus he needs playing time. You say he’s tactically woeful, I’ll have to disagree, i just can’t comprehend that a manager who’s been in the job for probably 3 decades would be lacking tactically.
November 12th, 2008 at 1:15
@OllieY: It’s a penalty. If that’s what he needs to get his confidence back, then he is totally hopeless. A penalty is nothing more than a gift goal. Had he missed it he would have sunk even more into despair. But making it should be more of a relief than a confidence boost.
November 12th, 2008 at 1:16
@RedDevilEddy: Why? Did you want the game to end 0-0 and go to extra time? Anderson would have missed the goal or shot it right at the goalkeeper.
November 12th, 2008 at 1:21
@Mr.Muhozi: I share your despair. Tom Brady’s injury broke my heart and then my Plan B, the Dallas Cowboys imploded with selfishness. The Yankees were a joke, Germany lost the Euro final and the Serie A still survives. What I would give for professional football to be made illegal in Italy. Perhaps I’m asking a lot. Oh ya, and Dunga is alive while Maradona will start his clown regime with Argentina. At least my Boston Celtics won the NBA.
November 12th, 2008 at 1:23
@dan(u-ol): Especially after 1-0 yawner.
November 12th, 2008 at 1:23
@Rd: That’s easy to answer! He’s been in the job for three decades because the league where he’s been plying his trade (i.e. the old first divivsion, now premier league) was never the most tactical league. Only the influx of continental coaches has raised the standards of tactics in the game, and still we can see that midtable teams and relegation candidates struggle.
It is a far cry from, say, the french league, where the average skill level of players is lower, but somehow the tactical nature of the game there makes it that there isn’t such a big gap between the first three (except lyon) and relegation candidates.
Simply put, I don’t think that Fergie would stand for more than 1 season in France, Italy or Spain as a manager - the english league is the only league where he could have become what he is.
November 12th, 2008 at 1:25
@RedDevilEddy: Not to depress you mate but you are only 15. Wait until you are my age or old enough to have to pay bills and worry about your health. Be optimistic and positive, that’s great but trust me when I say the real world hasn’t even sunk it’s teeth into you yet. Adult life isn’t what it used to be. Unless of course you make it big in football and never get caught taking bribes. Then you may have a reason for optimism.
November 12th, 2008 at 1:28
@Abu: A big anal cavity + Bull shit - class x fluky luck = The New York Giants
November 12th, 2008 at 1:32
@MUFC Fan in America: It’s easy for me mate, I live in Vancouver Canada. Territorial bias for me only exists in the city I am from which is Edmonton. And then it only really matters in hockey and Canadian football. If you don’t live in the cities it’s pretty hard to hate them for every sport. Now I hate the Red Sox and I despise the NY Giants so I sure make things interesting for myself and more than a bit confusing for you. Mr Muhozi is like me and that just means a man with very fine and refined good taste.
November 12th, 2008 at 1:35
@Rd: Hahaha! Look at Vida’s WAG! He already looked like a freakin’ eastern european murderer, now his gal looks the part of a james bond sadistical femme fatale type!
My god the Carrick’s children are gonna have one hell of a jawbone! With parents like that! *bad me! bad me! making fun of people physical appearance! not good!*
November 12th, 2008 at 1:40
@Rd: RD. listen Bro - I am not just saying these things to be controversial, to cause a hornets nest etc. Roy Keane and other professionals have said it too. Course that doesn’t mean we are right, but it doesn’t mean we are wrong either. You say Fergie wouldn’t have been as successful as he has been, if he wasn’t tactically sound. Well, I would agree that we have been very successful for a good few years under Fergie in the PL, domestic cups etc, but we failed far too long in Europe CL, where tactical nous was needed. The two times we have won the CL under Fergie, you have got to admit if you are not biased that we were lucky in the finals. Sometimes you have a purple patch game, like we had against Juve, in the 3-3 draw. We had players like Cole/York, etc etc etc, who had a magic season that particular year. Great players can win matches when on form, and when they just get those magic one off nights. Think about UNited 7 against Roma. When has Carrick had such a blistering night since, I think you see what I mean. Like Mourinho said, he wouldn’t have got the long years that Fergie and Wenger got to win PL & CLs. He said it is an excuse to say that it takes years to build a winning team, but he proved that assumption wrong. Course Fergie/Wenger haven’t until the last several years had the financial clout they have now, and Mourinho had. So that should be taken into account. Anyway, once again it is down to opinions, and Roy Keane has better knowledge of inside Fergie training, thinking etc than I have, and he insists Fergie isn’t and has never been good tactically. I just happen to agree with Roy on this one issue. I know Fergie has said on quite a few occasions, not just on Carling cup, that he subs players for others to get the playing time they need. So, I think I have to leave it at that. It may not have mattered to you or to Fergie that we NEEDED a change up front on many a few occasions, and certainly a long time before he made them, like tonight, but it matters to me. Anyway RD, I am not the manager, so I either stop supporting United, or I just have to suffer the woeful inadequaces I believe we have been subjected to in our teams performances lately, in the final 3rd of the pitch.
November 12th, 2008 at 1:41
Is it me or were the portuguese-speaking contigent the best dressed guys on the night? It seems that Ronnie has been giving Nani and Manucho fashion tips…
November 12th, 2008 at 1:46
@Craig Mc: Hey bro, it seems we share more or less the same opinion with resgards to Fergie’s tactics.
Still I’d rather he than any other coach in the world… Or maybe perhaps I’d take Cryuff but I know that’s never going to happen…
Time for me to catch the Zzzzs now… A+
November 12th, 2008 at 1:51
@Craig Mc: I feel your pain Bro. I honestly wished I was out there with you to share the experience. I don’t know what to say about the team. I have noticed that with legendary coaches in North American sports the success can suddenly stop and the game can pass them by. This is not always due to them losing touch with the modernization of the game and it’s strategy, tactics and technology. It’s usually a case of two things. The coaches old stubbornness not allowing him to make the proper changes in lineups or in strategy as well, the players eventually tune out and stop listening. Especially when he begins a locker room rant or training room bitch session. So many of the players on this team have had years with Fergie and have seen him mellow quite a bit from where he was in say, 1994. I think he is still a legend but if he is losing the lads in the dressing room and when he is screaming at them, they just might not give the necessary effort that is needed on the pitch. Great football coaches in America like Don Shula, Tom Landry, Chuck Knoll and even Vince Lombardi ended their careers losing only because they were not getting through to a newer and richer generation of players or the old veteran players had so become used to the same old same old, that they just tuned out. This will especially happen because the older a coach gets, the more they slow down and mellow. No more shoe throwing and blow dryers being used and so players do not fear Fergie anymore. Especially since many feel fat and fed due to the success of the past two years. They just aren’t hungry anymore……and you know something, Fergie is too old and to full himself to give the needed screaming sessions and hand out the necessary punishments that are needed to shake the rust out of these blokes.
Some may think that my theory is full of shite but I can’t tell you how many times I have seen this happen in sports. Joe Torre got the axe last year because management felt that after 10 straight years in the playoffs and 4 world championships, his style of managing had lost it’s strength and the team was now playing mediocre baseball because the players had tuned out Joe and because they just weren’t being motivated properly. Part of the problem was the team was getting old and that is a big problem with United. EVDS, Neville, Giggs and Scholes have all held and continue to hold key positions in the starting eleven. The team is slower and poorer because of it. Then the young players get frustrated and even when they get to play the odd game or so, they feel double the pressure to show something and that usually ends up blowing up in their faces (ie; Nani, Anderson). So what do we do? I may sound ungrateful and wreaking of blasphemy here but perhaps the time is coming sooner than even expected but, Fergie may have reached the end of the road. Perhaps the team not only needs a new manager, new motivator but also a new direction in strategy and tactics. Sure this is just me sounding panicked but let me play the Devil’s Advocate here for a second. Am I completely wrong here or do I make any sense at all? Until I see some hunger and proper execution and desire from this team, i will continue to question the team and above all my beloved Fergie. I love him dearly and he is without a doubt the greatest man manager of all time. But what happens when all of a sudden the man managing stops working? Well we already know he was never the greatest tactician in the game.
November 12th, 2008 at 1:59
@Rd: O my sweet Mama, Nani’s WAG is absolutely gorgeous. The very type of woman I go for
. How on earth did the Little man pull her?. Carlos Tev looks like Al fricken Capone in that photo, the long dark coat - FRIGHTENING 
. O and I think Nemanjah’s Mrs is quite pretty too.
November 12th, 2008 at 2:17
@Grognard: Fergie in the last 15 years has never gone too long without winning though, two seasons is probs the max for him where PL is concerned. I think when he brought in Anderson and Nani and Hargo etc he felt a youthful exuberance, because he like starting to build a new team, and has had to disemble and assemble several times, and done well. I know he is set on retiring, and wanted to leave a legacy of a good team. Yet watching the younger players, they just don’t seem to come in to the team and really convince that THEY mean business and deserve a place. Rafael excluded Grog, because I really think this lad wants to play in our 1st team, but is raw in a good few areas of his game. He has shown more desire though than others to take the bull by the horns, and try and cement a place
. Andie was good when he first came, but I don’t think he has an all consumming desire to cement his place either. He doesn’t seem to be looking to improve his game. I mean he is very good in midfield hassling and getting the ball, and distribution etc, but whenever he gets in the final third, he disappoints, like someone who bring to the boil, but loses the final orgasmic release, because he fizzles out, off balance or no idie or composure when it comes to putting ball in the net. So frustrating. And Nani, I really think he does want it bad, like Tev, but they can both be so ordinary and inconsistent. Consistency of performance is everything in any walk of life, and without it, well no effectiveness. Rooney is like that too. Only on the boil for so many games, and then off for ages. That is what sets the truly greats apart from the others, CONSISTENCY AND POTENCY of performance.
November 12th, 2008 at 4:32
@Craig Mc: I can’t disagree with you there. So then what is the solution? How does Fergie fix this or do the Glazer’s have to sack him and bring in the Messiah aka Grognard to make the machine run smooth and oiled? Be warned, if the Grogster gets hired, heads are going to roll. Don’t worry, I’ll give Nani a chance to prove himself. However, Marin or Sanchez are waiting in the wings to be signed. Just call me the Spatial One. You have to be a little spaced out to buy into my BS sometimes and I do agree with myself far too often.
November 12th, 2008 at 5:22
@Grognard: Grog,
More than Fergie’s ouster the team needs a better captain! Neville and Giggs are both shite leaders of men!!! Wheres the Robson or Keano of old???
Time for Rio to take over full responsibilities as he sure can motivate. Fergie is fucking with him big time by not giving him the mantle. I dont really understand why Neville or Giggs have to wear the armband when they are very clearly not upto it, especially giggs!!! He is woefully inadequate to be a captain. And to top of it, both of them are not sureshot first teamers anymore!!!
Fergieeeee are you listening???
November 12th, 2008 at 6:30
I didnt watch the game but from what ive read it seems we lacked focus in front of goal again. Im really trying to be optimistic but from the way things are going my optimism is sinking fast. It even worse when i read just how glossy arsenal’s win over wigan was.That bulshit that we are still in november doesnt wash with me anymore. Owen is out for the season……………. Lord! Cant it get any worse
Our displays this season has resulted to teams not fearing us anymore. our complacent showing and poor tactics are really costing us and be sure stoke will be coming to old trafford full of confidence that they will give us a run for our money coz we seem to be giving teams a fighting chance. what happen to the manchester united we knew that could thrash teams with minimal fuss? What happened to the hunger, to the finishing? Fergie better answer this questions soon otherwise I feel we are gonna end up with nothing this season.
November 12th, 2008 at 6:33
I hope we met arsenal at the quarter finals
. I want to see if there kids will outwit us 
November 12th, 2008 at 7:34
I hope carricks wife is only by name and not by nature…for his sake.
November 12th, 2008 at 8:40
@Craig Mc: How did he get her? It’s called money mate.
Otherwise I think she would go for somebody else who didn’t quite look so much like Michael Jackson. 
November 12th, 2008 at 8:42
@jos: Thats a good point too. Rio should have been named captain at the end of last season.
November 12th, 2008 at 8:49
@Rd: That picture of Berba blew me away. In a tux he looks like the actor Mark Strong who plays the #2 baddy named Archy in the movie Rock N Rolla. Stunning resemblance. Also, he has a big head for his body. The more to head goals with.
November 12th, 2008 at 10:13
@Nelson Otieno: Sadly it’s probably because we won the double last season. Complacency sets in to some players which leads to lackluster performances. As far as I remember a similar thing happened the year after we won the treble…
The players just need to pull their fingers out that’s all.
November 12th, 2008 at 10:43
@JAy: We won the league that season with an 18 point margin over Arsenal and only lost 3 times.
November 12th, 2008 at 11:15
hey Since hargo is out for the season, how many of us think we will strengthen in January ? we are linked with Standard liege 19 year old box to box midfielder …..anybody remember his name ? can anybody tell how good is he ? also next summer, Xavi can buy his contract and look4 a new club if required- it seems…I wud love to have xavi here at OT
….xavi and carrick 
palacios wud also be a good addition
November 12th, 2008 at 11:42
@bond: Our midielders: Anderson, Scholes, Carrick, Gibson, Possebon, Giggs, Fletcher, Oshea(lol)… 8 midfielders to choose from. No I dont think we need a midfielder now.
November 12th, 2008 at 11:52
@bond: Axel Witsel is the name… 15m is the asking price!!! So he is not coming.
If Xavi comes it is bye bye Carrick! He and Carrick wont be playing together on the pitch! He will need to be partnered with a Gattuso kinda character.
November 12th, 2008 at 11:52
I hate all this reactionary bullsh*t. We have a massive squad, and some quality reserves (last night aside). It’s unfortunate that we won’t have Hargo this year, but we should be able to deal with it. In this day and age money isn’t exactly flowing around, and we hsould operate responsibly for the future. Spunking £15m on a player only to let them fade when Owen gets back just isn’t worth it. We’ll make do with what we’ve got.
Where we should be spending our money is on an assistant for Fergie. Because tactically we’ve looked terrible this year. I don’t have answer for who that should be, but by lord we need something. Am I the only one that doesn’t understand how we can be so crap at shooting? I watch matches all the time from the championship, and lower prem teams, and if you give their strikers a yard of space they score. They may only get one or two chances in the game, and they’re often scrappy and they don’t put together beautiful flowing football…but they score. With Tevez, Rooney, Berba, Nani, Anderson…sure they can pass and dribble and backheel but how hard can it be to learn to put your laces through it!?
November 12th, 2008 at 11:55
@RedDevilEddy: Lets be honest here…Scholes and Giggs is past it..Gibson and oshea is not united material…Fletcher is not Worldclass.. Possebon and Anderson are still very young and long way to go…that leaves us with carrick alone… seriously , if xavi is available(if rumours are to be believed - 20m ) then we must take that
November 12th, 2008 at 11:59
@bond: Do you really think he will leave Barca, because I don’t.
November 12th, 2008 at 12:00
@jos: Thanks Mate !
15 m is way too much …may be since they got 15 for fiellani ,they will be expecting crazy money for this guy as well…we really cant say that carrick + xavi cant play together….same was our thought when we went for carrick remember ? and we know what happened after that 
November 12th, 2008 at 12:06
@Beachryan: Its not about the Squad depth we have… the only position where we lack Worldclass players is the AMF,DMF,CMF area..yes i know Scholes and Hargo are worldclass but we cant rely on them completely…So the question is when a worldclass player is available,should we go for him or not
November 12th, 2008 at 12:09
@Beachryan: I agree about people over reacting to the situation, we havn’t played well recently and also scoring goals currently seems to be an issue, but we said the same in the early part of last season.
With regards to this desperation for a tactical genius number 2, who do you guys think make the decisions with regards to subs, Fergie or CQ, Phelan? Fergie is the decision maker at the club, and has recently made some odd/poor changes but Fergie calls the shots at the club not the number 2.
November 12th, 2008 at 12:12
@bond: well i m still not convinced carrick can play without a Keano type hardman alongside! Andy is perhaps the person but he is in and out too much and still is very raw for that kind of job. We lost midfield battle in almost all the importand/big games last year. Carrick doesnt really boss the midfield the way a club like utd should.
Xavi is like Fabregas. It would be waste of his talent if he spending all his time in needless tackles and ball winning. Xavi would definitely need a ball winner playing alongside him (we all know carrick isnt great at that). If Hargo can make successful recovery by next year than probably Xavi Hargo combo can be amazing in the midfield!!!
November 12th, 2008 at 12:13
@Beachryan: Agree With ur Second point ! but do u think ,we will start scoring goals if a new Assistant takes over under fergie ? honestly I dont…i think we lack the right player adn not the coach … fergie should ask berbs to lead the line and play the Holy trinity behind him…come on fergie show some guts !!!
November 12th, 2008 at 12:36
Should be interesting to see how we play against Stoke. Ideally we’d want Brown, O’Shea, Rio and Vidic all available to counter the Rory Delap special, but I think that Brown is still hurt. In which case you have to go with Gary, despite the Arsenal game. Stoke aren’t gonna hurt us with pace, and he’s stronger than he looks. Midfield should be interesting. I wouldn’t mind seeing Possebon and Carrick for purely height reasons. Nani deserves to be benched after last night, so i’d play Park, Rooney, Tevez and Ronaldo up front. But what do I know. We’ll probably go 433 with Giggs as a long CF supported by Park, Oshea and Fletcher.
November 12th, 2008 at 12:42
i think we are just needing a settled side, we always have this long winded debate who will and won’t start, I am sure Chelsea don’t have the same debate and Liverpool this season and arsenal don’t.
Fergie needs to assatain what his first 11 is and stick with that for a period of time so we develop some continuity.
November 12th, 2008 at 12:48
Manucho and berbs must start to defend delap with tevez..give rooney and Ronaldo a rest for the Villarel Away…
——-VDS———–
Gary-Rio-Vidic-Oshea–
–Carrick-Fletcher—
Tevez—Berbs—–Giggs
——-Manucho——-
November 12th, 2008 at 12:52
@bond: He didn’t play Manucho in a league cup game mate, be realistic
November 12th, 2008 at 12:59
It’s the Feng Shui, that’s what’s up:
This season’s team is often imbalanced, it was last year too. With Ronaldo on fire you can win regardless of balance.
The hustle of Tevez was vital last year, it balanced out the lightweight midfield, problem is he isn’t that much of a goal threat.
Berbatov’s amazing vision and finesse is vital to the team, but he makes the midfield more fragile if you take out Tevez.
It’s been said many times on here already, the matches against Barcelona last season where a disgrace…it worked though but it won’t work next time. Where was the midfield?
Maybe Fergie does need to bring in Grognard © to kick butt
I’m happy with the inclusion of Berbatov but the rest needs to be sorted out, the middle is weak, no muscle. If your forwards aren’t hustling, the guys behind them and on the wings need to be.
A style of play needs to be thought out, you don’t have to stick to it like glue but a general idea might be nice.
Chelsea have their style: out muscle in midfield, power and speed on the flanks= difficult to break down…or something like that
Arsenal have their pattern of play: pass and move with speed, from back to front…Carrick would never get in their team because he’s too slow for them…not criticising, he’s a good player.
What is the United pattern of play right now?
With the ball: pass it round a bit, run into a brick wall, get a free kick, hit wall with free kick? Or maybe, pass it round a bit, attack on flanks, cross to nobody, maybe win a corner, hit first defender with corner?
Without the ball: Watch opposition as they approach your half, move about a bit(not too much mind), hopefully win ball back somewhere around your own 18 yard box then try to attack, but wait they’ve already got 8 men behind the ball…
I want someone to win the ball in the middle of the park, when was the last time you saw someone make a tackle there? Anderson’s ok but he’s fragile, needs love…I want someone telling these fuckers off, what the hell did you do that for, you better make a good cross, one more bad free kick and I’m taking them…Not a bully but an example…maybe United does need a bit of German in its weird international mix…
I love United’s quirky ways, but the mix is a bit too selfish, too many different flavours working at once…needs blending together.
November 12th, 2008 at 13:11
@ Mango - I think that’s a pretty fair summary, and of course the blending together is Fergie’s job and he certainly hasn’t managed it yet this season.
I also agree with the settled team approach, maybe Fergie is trying to tailor teams too much to the opposition, certainly I just tried to above! You’re right we should just pick our XI and keep it. For me that appears to be a 442:
———–vds(but should be foster-
–Raf/Wes-Rio-Vida-Evra–
—-Carrick-Anderson——
-Ronaldo———-Nani—-
——Berbatov————
———–Rooney———
November 12th, 2008 at 13:14
As for style, last year we clearly liked to sit, draw in opponents and then break with Roovez/Ronaldo at pace. And it worked quite well. This season we’ve gone away from that, presumably to incorporate Berba. Given our personnel, I just don’t get our reliance on the flanks. We’re crap in the box, so crossing is fairly pointless. Problem is we don’t have the arsenal like skill to pass through teams behind hte ball, we don’t have the Chelsea strength to play balls into a front man and we don’t have liverpools grinding defensive style. In a summary, we have no real overarching tactic. It seems to be, put XI players on the pitch and hope they get on okay.
November 12th, 2008 at 13:21
@Beachryan: Our defensive still is the best in the league, i will say not playing that way currently.
We are not crap in the box we are not taking our chances, we do also do play one touch football, sometimes in my view in the wrong areas, sometimes we just need to shoot.
We can play through balls via Carrick/Berba and Scholes to Rooney/ Ronaldo and Tevez which we did last season.
November 12th, 2008 at 13:22
@magno: Great post magno. Completely and whole heartedly agree. Hargreaves was bought for this purpose, but his constant injury woes has made our midfield fragile. We do not have a midfield enforcer. Anderson comes close, but he is only 20 and needs a lot of improvement in his game. How can you expect him to bark instructions at his team mates when he’s just a 20 year old kid with no firm grasp of English?
The Hargreaves surgery is a big blow. With him and Scholes out, we look seriously light weight and unprotected in midfield. The emergence of Darren Fletcher as a decent box to box player has helped a bit but it will be interesting to see if Fergie uses the transfer market to fix our little midfield problem.
November 12th, 2008 at 13:36
@RDJ: Hargreaves made 15 Ninety-minute appearances last season (out of Manchester United’s 57 games in all competitions) some were out wide right.
November 12th, 2008 at 13:36
There was something startling that happened a few weeks back…remember that match where Anderson, Possebon, Rafael, Ronaldo and Nani? were playing together, samba football…
Out with the English era(Beckham,Scoles etc.), go total samba! Brazilian keeper, the twins…Rio’s samba, so is Vidic, keep them
Ditch Fletcher and Carrick, way too cup of tea. Get Rooney a wig and he’ll play differently…he’d fit in nicely
I loved watching that match (part of match), it seemed to make Nani and Ronaldo play better, like, “shit, kids can play!”
November 12th, 2008 at 13:40
@Stephen: Hardly enough for a 17 million summer purchase you’ve courted for almost two seasons is it?
November 12th, 2008 at 13:40
It’s insane I know, but they did seem on the same wavelength, a coherency to their style
November 12th, 2008 at 13:46
@RDJ: I agree mate very expensive, he is a good player but considering he played only 9 league games for Bayern that previous year due to a broken leg and has made 25 starts for us in total, seems amazing how he passed a medical.
November 12th, 2008 at 13:55
Maybe he didn’t really pass his medical. Maybe SAF had something to say to the physios during the medical. Think of it as this way, we courted Hargo for two season and finally, Bayern agreed to do business with us. Wouldn’t you do almost anything to wrap up the deal as soon as possible? The Hargo deal was done as soon as the 06-07 season was over. At that time SAF wouldn’t have imagined that the problem would be so chronic. It might not be true. But i’ve heard something similar in Saha’s case.
November 12th, 2008 at 14:31
We’re shite infront of goal, our midfield’s lightweight, our defense is in a funk and now Hargo’s out for the season… the shit just continues to pile up!!
All this we’ll be fine rubbish that is emanating from OT is just a smoke screen disguising the facts that the team is just not up to standard this year, mentally, physically or tactically. We were fooling round in pre-season, overplaying scholesy and youngsters that have no place in our first team setup. Chelsea on the other hand were preparing diligently for this season, getting their tactics and personnel spot on well before the season began. It’s no secret, the best prepared team at the start of the season usually has the most success (also due to their squad quality) and this season we did not prepare properly. I mean, look at two seasons ago, we came out the blocks flying and ran away with the title.
All this slow starters bull is just an excuse the club and us fans use, when in recent times, we know we can’t afford to be. How we haven’t established a 1st eleven (withstanding injuries) or got into any sort of rhythm by November is beyond me. Fergie said by October we’ll be on fire, but alas, it’s November and we’re still ‘apparently’ approaching 100%. That’s not acceptable, especially given the competitiveness of the PL and our exhaustive schedule. Already, it’s ’squeaky bum’ time and if we are not careful, our bums will be knocked off the PL and CL throne we occupy right now.
I seriously hope that Fergie and the players realise that we can’t just show up and expect to win matches. Fergie especially, he has to pay more attention to the teams tactics, personnel employed and opponents. I know he believes in the player’s abilities, but without the proper guidance, they will fail to utilise those abilities to the maximum, just like we’re witnessing this season.
November 12th, 2008 at 15:07
More transfer rubbish as The Daily Star reports that Manchester United are after 2008 Euro player of the tournament Xavi Hernandez. The Spaniard’s contract is set to end on 2010 and he wants a new contract which Barca apparently is refusing.
We maybe light on midfield but Xavi is not the player for us. We already have technically gifted passers in the team. What we need is a beast of a midfielder.
November 12th, 2008 at 15:07
we cnt do proper medicals. saha, hargo are alwayz injured. also, after qeuiroz has left SAF tactics has gone down the drain and since keano has left we havent had any bite in midfield. what is happening 2 us
November 12th, 2008 at 15:10
Erm, since Keano left we’ve won two prems and a CL. So I don’t think he was the overarching factor.
Must say am feeling down generally about our chances. Can you imagine us not being thereabouts in May…?
November 12th, 2008 at 17:08
Must get Quieroz back!!!
November 12th, 2008 at 17:16
C’mon guys its not like the season is over. Chelsea aren’t going to go unbeaten for the rest of the season despite what people seem to think. We are 5 points away assuming we win our game in hand. People are getting too down about this. I guarantee that we will pick it up soon. Hopefully we hammer Stoke(I’ll be there
) and get a bit of confidence. The unfair amount of pressure on this team is unreal. The only team with the squad strength to beat us are Chelsea who still have to play at OT, the Emirates and Anfield. This defeatist attitude is really getting under my skin
November 12th, 2008 at 17:16
Gabriel Id agree with every word. We are getting found out. In previous seasons we have been able to cover our weaknesses.
Our defence gets away with occasional slips because most teams do not take their chances.
Our midfield gets away with being lightweight because Scholes and Carrick as a pairing keep possession well enough to avoid being defensively exposed and Anderson and Fletcher are both capable of raising their game when playing against superior opposite numbers. But against teams like Milan and Arsenal and Liverpool second half it was as though our midfield just wasn’t there.
Our strikers are spoilt for chances because they are all a lot more creative than they are clinical and there is always Ronaldo to rescue them.
Well this season other teams are taking their chances, our defensive seems even more error prone than usual, our midfield is missing Scholes and Anderson and Fletcher are not over-performing in the big matches to such an extent, our attack seems worse than ever and Ronaldo is a bit off the pace.
We need an extra midfielder for the big games because we need to play three in midfield and with Hargreaves out we only have Anderson, Carrick, Fletcher and a fading Scholes and Giggs. We had an injury crisis in midfield at the start of the season, who is to say it will not recur.
Our defence needs to shape up. Neville is a liability, Brown is short of confidence and injured at the moment, Rafael is quality but at his age he is bound to make mistakes. Evans looks quality and he should be given chances to put Rio and Vidic under pressure to perform. Foster needs games as EVDS quality keeper though he is scares the hell out of me.
Our attack needs some discipline. Berbatov needs to play as a striker. Both Rooney and Tevez are more than capable at playing as a deep-lying forward and linking midfield and attack. Rooney seems to be playing as a striker and he is just not clinical enough for that position.
Really I think sometimes we are best playing 4-3-3 that way our three forward players can do whatever the hell they like without having to bother with defence while our midfield keeps things together and are able to push forward because one player can always stay back and hold. Of course this means sacrificing Rooney but 4-4-2 renders Ronaldo less effective as he is less involved in play and presumabely has defensive responsibilities.
November 12th, 2008 at 17:20
and its not like Queiroz was in charge of the whole fucking team. We won trophies before him and we’ll win trophies after him
November 12th, 2008 at 17:33
@Liam: I agree with you 100%. I was reading the comments earlier and the consistent prophet of doom approach was really irritating. I started to type a response, then stopped because I couldn’t be bothered - some people will always think we’re the best team in the world after every win and no-hopers after every loss.
The season is a long one, and that sort of bi-polarism gets very wearing unless you’re a jounalist from the Sun. Try and get a bit of perspective, guys - things could be better, but they’re not that bad.
November 12th, 2008 at 17:40
@Stephen: No way is Xavi coming here. Not for 20 mil, not for 40 mil, not at all. I hate these ridiculous and totally corrupt rumor mills. This one is completely unsubstantiated and lacks any logic. Sure he would be a vital player to throw in and help our floundering midfield but first off, he loves his boyhood team Barcelona, they play in Spain where he is from and they are in first place playing wonderful football this season. Why would he want to leave that and then ask yourselves why would Barcelona even consider any offer? The way they are playing this season, not only is La Liga there’s but the Champions League is a good bet too. If we won’t sell Ronaldo, why would Fergie assume a club equal to his own in wealth and prestige consider selling their second greatest asset? Not going to happen. I don’t believe that bullshit one bit.
Rather than waste his time on players that are not coming, I think he should try to one up Real Madrid and Spurs again by going after a player who does want to leave his team. Andrei Arshavin is desperate to leave Zenit and he is every bit as good as Xavi as well as more versatile positionally. Sign him up in January and you will have 3 to 5 years of truly world class vision, speed and skill on display for you.
November 12th, 2008 at 17:48
It’s about bloody time someone mentioned Arshavin. We need someone down the left as Nani isn’t there yet, Par isn’t a lefty (or half as good as Arshavin) and Giggs is done. £15million? Get it done!
November 12th, 2008 at 17:50
@Beachryan: Why should we go with Gary Neville against Stoke? He is shite. Continue with the kid and let him get experience. If Rafael can’t play well against the likes of Stoke, he doesn’t deserve to be on the team. He has handled himself well up to now and for me, he has been less of a defensive liability than Neville while offering us much more offensively. He didn’t make a fool of himself when he was inserted in the Arsenal game. And he scored a wonderful goal.
Fuck Neville. I wish he would do us all a favor and hang his cleats up once and for all. And I wish he would take Giggsy and Scholes with him. These players were fantastic in their day but they are holding the development of this team for hostage. If they consider themselves team players and would do anything for the team, then the skipper should take the lead and fall on a sword for the team’s greater good. Both Rafael and Brown deserve to play over him. Brown may be injured right now so Neville can play as a sub but Rafael should be out there. Hell, I’d play O’Shea over Neville. At least players don’t get around him so easily.
November 12th, 2008 at 17:52
@Traverse: @Grognard: If Arshavin was available for £15 million, I would fly to Manchester, wait outside Fegies house until the next morning and I would use every chance I had to tell him to but Arshavin. Realy, if he is available for that kind of money I would give blood, hair and whatever else I can do to raise money and donate them to the “Bring Arshavin To Manchester”-fund.
Kinda like Berba charity appeal! 
You guys wanna help me out on that?
November 12th, 2008 at 17:53
Jeez yesterdays result was terrible and alot of that to me seems down to tactics. Why r we playing tevez who is like 3 feet, as a lone striker its just f***ing madness. Phelan is so bad tactically i think most of us on here wud do a better job. Fergie left everything to do with the running of the club down to quieroz last year and he seems 2 have so much condfidence in phelan that he seems to be taking the club himslef. A new assistant is needed immediately and i think cantona and poyet shud be considered. I know we dont know much about them tactically but i am positive they wud do a better job than who we got. Man no wonder english managers suck. Anyway i also think we need 2 sign up stephen appiah asap on a 1 year deal. I wud rather just know we had him and not need him than need him and not have him. Miniero went to chelsea and yes he hasnt played but at least they know hes there. As for long term diarra definitely shud be considered along with arshavin. I recommended him in the summer and i cant help but think he wud have been dynamite 4 us, but oh well.
November 12th, 2008 at 17:56
@Grognard: Scholes? No chance he has still something to our midfield a certain level of creativity, which know one else has.
They all have been loyal servants to our club maybe we should show them some loyalty back and give Nev at least a chance to give some fitness and form back.
November 12th, 2008 at 17:57
@Grognard: Giggs has one year left on his contract with the opportunity to make it one more. Scholes just signed a contract to 2010 and Neville is rumoured to be doing likewise. I dont get why United to this. They got rid of Hughes, Bruce, Kanchelskis, Staam, Neville(other one), Beckham, Ruud, Butt and Cole to give ay to the future. We have Rafael and Brown to take over for Neville. Anderson, Carrick, Nani and Hargreaves to take over for Scholes and Giggs. How Fergie cant see that and continues to play the old guys instead, is beyond me. They have all done a brilliant job for us and the day they retire will be a really sad day. But I think they should do it quickly, before they make complete fools of themselves.
November 12th, 2008 at 18:02
@ Grognard - If we were playing a football team, I’d agree with you not to play Neville. But I’ve seen stoke a few times this year, and they’re big slow and strong. Now I honestly do believe that Rafael is our best RB prospect (interesting that simmo isn’t doing great at BB) and he should be in the team for the majority of matches. But Stoke offer very little down the flanks - they don’t really play with wingers. So Gary won’t be exposed. And in an aerial battle I’d take Gaz over Rafael anyday. Say what you want about the Brazilian, but I’ve seen nothing to suggest he’s useful in the air.
Arshavin seems like too big a personality to try and fit in, IMO. I’m also kind of tired of this Chelsea-esque approach to just buying the best similar shaped object to fill a hole. We have a big squad, and have Park and Nani who supposedly can play on the left. If they can’t then one of them should be sold in order to finance the Arshavin move. How many first team players do we really want on our books?
What I don’t get is why Fergie isn’t blooding Foster. He’s not a teenager, he’s proven in the prem and VDS is clearly out of form. It seems such a no-brainer.
November 12th, 2008 at 18:04
@Stephen: This whole theory about a settled side may make a lot of sense to a lot of us but it’s not part of the modern game. It’s 1980’s thinking and really has left the game since the late 1990’s. I am not advocating Rafa’s rotation policy by no means but then again, even Rafa isn’t rotating like he used to. It’s necessary to rotate players in today’s EPL because of the number of games in the season. I fe we were going to go the limit in all tournaments and the league, we would be playing more than 65 games. That does not count the travel to play Zenit in the European Super Cup and when we go to Tokyo for the World Super Cup tourney as well as the half dozen exhibition games we played to get ready for the season. And for many of the players this is coming after a shortened Summer where they played games in EURO 08. Teams are playing anywhere between 15 to 20 more games a season than they were 30 years ago and probably 12 to 15 games more than they played 20 years ago. You need to rotate in order for you to survive and succeed. Players need to be kept fresh and the fresher they are, the better chance they have of avoiding serious injury or even worse, injuries that are brought on by over worked muscles and bones. As well, managers need to rotate their lineups so as to make sure their starting eleven stars are fresh for the big games at the end of the campaign. I think we all would want a fresh Rooney, Ronaldo and Berbatov for the last few games of the season as well as the FA Cup and CL Final. So from that perspective, Fergie is doing the right thing. He just doesn’t have the players playing well and because of that, we all bitch about a set lineup. Well we never had a set lineup last year either but because we won and played well in the process, nobody complained. We fans truly are a fickle lot and we are never satisfied with anything. And I am as guilty as any of you on that. But not on this issue at least.
November 12th, 2008 at 18:05
@Nelson Otieno: He played n a weaker league against much worse players and had plenty of freedom because he was one of their most creative players.
None of these are the case here. He’s not a winger and never will be. If you can’t cross you’re not ever going to be a good winger.
November 12th, 2008 at 18:14
@Grognard: Yeah I know all about Fabio, he’s looked defensively suspect in the two reserve games he’s played and both Rafael and his U-19s coach have said he roams all over the pitch.
Doesn’t sound like a defensively sound left back to me in the slightest. If he can’t defend he’s not getting into the team ahead of O’Shea, simple as that.
@Grognard: Of course we’re in a completely different situation. But it’s absolute bollocks to claim he can’t manage four strikers considering we won the treble doing so.
@Craig Mc: Managers say that all the time, Keano’s a bit mad in the head and lets be honest, if he’s tactically poor he wouldn’t have won what he has, all the while creating three separate teams, tactically he must be doing something right. Just because he’s not Jose Mourinho doesn’t mean he’s not a great tactician.
@Matthew: Tevez played very well, so it was completely spot on to play him up there on his own. It’s not his fault Nani and Anderson missed so many chances and we weren’t creative enough through the middle
November 12th, 2008 at 18:19
@Penguin: Penguinissmo
I’m sure the team’s performance has given some fans reason to be all doom and gloom. We have simply been a shadow of our former selves. Now, I wouldn’t go as far as saying we will win nothing, we are definitely capable and will win trophies this season. However, with performances like the ones we’ve seen so far, it’s not easy to fathom, especially after watching other major local and European teams strut their stuff.
This season, we have clearly regressed, as even the developments Fergie promised us have not come to fruition. I don’t see any aspect of our game that has improved from last year. It is pretty obvious we are not functioning like last year or the year before and I feel it’s better to address these little problems before they develop into massive ones that hinder our charge for the numerous trophies we are capable of claiming/defending.
All these little problems, I feel, can be corrected with a bit of attitude change and recognition of the recent poor form our team is in. All that ‘we will come good’ talk is not serving the team any good as it will only say to them that their recent performances have been ok. We have to realise that unless we raise our game to the level it should be, and fast, we will be on course for a more difficult and (hopefully not) disappointing season.
November 12th, 2008 at 18:20
@magno: Well done mate. That was one of the funniest and smartest posts not written by me or CraigMC on this blog in a while. I totally agree with you 100% and couldn’t have said it better. The way they play was beautifully described. I especially agree with the end effect of their so called methods of attack, especially the bit about crossing the ball to the first defender’s head or to nobody in particular.
The best line however and the most accurate has got to do with their sagging laid back zone defense. You are right, when was the last time they actually pressured a team in their end of the park and took the ball off them instead of waiting until they get to our 18 yard box before we get on them? I do disagree with the too many different flavors part because we won with those flavors last year but I do get the jist. What we need is more discipline and more urgency in our attack but mostly in our defending. For years I have complained about United’s inability to press more on defense. They give teams far too much room and space on defense before they pounce on them. This conserves energy but when you aren’t playing well and especially when you aren’t creating enough scoring chances where you don’t have to penetrate the Berlin Wall of ten defenders, then it’s necessary to figure out another scheme of attack. The best counterattack is the one that comes off of a press situation and where you have left the opponent dazed and confused. This happens in hockey, basketball and in soccer (football) they same way. Pressure defense can often be your best offensive tool. And it can disrupt an opponent badly while allowing you to take advantage of things before they can place their ten men behind the ball. So yes you are correct when you say that I should be hired to raise a little Hell. We need to pounce on teams early and get the early two goal lead with this kind of style then we can relax defensively but never relent when on offense. How we can improve our corner kicking, free kicks, 1,2’s and finishing is through hours and hours of repetitive practice. This team is not too great to be taught basic fundamentals like how to cross a ball and how to kick a ball so that it’s accurate. Schoolboy stuff and yet United suck at it. Back to basics Fergie, and start kicking some fat and lazy asses out there.
Nice post their mate. Loved it.
November 12th, 2008 at 18:22
Conor, ok sorry i didnt see the game cos it wasnt on but every1 on the radio was saying that he hardly touched the ball in the 1st half. Im not doubting his talent, i love the guy hes a gr8 player, but i just feel that had we played a 4-4-2 and gone all out 2 win with tev playing behind wellbeck or manucho we wud have battered them. Any1 think that maybe we shud look 2 play tevez on the left side of the midfield. When nani plays he never comes back 2 help out defensively so its just like playing with 2 front men with 2 forward wingers and in the past tevez used 2 play there 4 argentina. Its not like we have a set left midfielder there anyway so maybe we shud try him out.
Also just saw on skysports news arshavin saying he will leave zenit in 09. Come one fergie get this guy, cos he wud cud make this team the greatest this planet has ever seen. Just imagine:
foster
rafael, rio, vidic, evra
ronaldo, hargreaves/diarra, arshavin/ando, nani
roo, berba
Now thats a dream like team.
November 12th, 2008 at 18:25
@RDJ: Hargreaves surgery may seem like a big blow but that’s only because you are thinking about this season. This season will probably have been a washout with or without Hargo. It’s the optimism of a healthy and ready to go Hargo for a full campaign next year and the year after that we must be focusing on. Sometimes we need to sacrifice the present for a longer and more fulfilling future. Add to that playing Rafael, Evans and even Possebon more often and it will pay off in spades by next season. And I don’t think it will hurt us so badly that we are not a top four team this season with a chance at some silverware. Fergie needs to think a bit more like Wenger this season than he has in the past.
November 12th, 2008 at 18:29
@magno: S Samba works when you are playing poor teams in the Carling Cup. It’s not going to work in the EPL. Not yet anyway. But I do agree that the team is capable of playing the way they did when they beat Roma 7-1. They can turn up the heat and the style. Alll those elements have been missing this year.
November 12th, 2008 at 18:37
@RDJ: Like I said in an earlier post, there is no validity to that rumor and that Xavi will not leave his beloved Barca for any team right now. With that said, I have to disagree with you over the fact you say we don’t need a player like that. Oh YES WE DO. We need a creative and imaginative player in the center of midfield who not only can defend well but who moves forward well and has the skill, vision and imagination to dissect defenses and also score goals. None of our present crop of midfielders comes close to that model except Paul Scholes six or seven years ago. Add him to the midfield next to a Hargreaves (and if he never returns) a Senna or Diarra and watch how this team destroys it’s opponents with multiple styles and techniques both from the wide part of the field as well as the center. Don’t be so quick to dismiss the valuable contribution a great attacking midfielder like Xavi would offer this team. And like I said earlier, he can defend fairly well too.
November 12th, 2008 at 18:44
@Matthew: Arshavin’s not a centre mid in any sense, Nani tracks back plenty for a winger, and Manucho’s not good enough yet.
November 12th, 2008 at 18:45
@Liam: Sorry Liam this is a rant site and so if people want to feel negative, they should be allowed to. There is good reason to feel down about the team and just forcing people to be optimistic for the sake of being optimistic is not going to work. Let us rant the way we do without the judgment of the Positively Joyful inflicting their glass half full mantra on us all. I for one don’t like to be told how to think or how to respond to things. If I choose to look at the present mess as a glass half empty, then please allow me and other like minded individuals to do so without policing us and telling us you are sivk of all the negativity. I honestly see where you are coming from and I don’t disagree that feeling positive is a good thing. But being negative is still an honest and true reaction for what’s been happening to our team of late and all the white paint and angelic talk in the world isn’t going to cover up the fact that the team sucks right now and that millions of United fans all over the world are purely pissed at the situation. So keep your call for positive vibes to you and to your like minded friends and please let us doom and gloomers say our peace.
November 12th, 2008 at 18:52
@Grognard: It’s not really a glass half empty situation though Grognard, it’s as if people are seeing this half empty glass as if it’s 3/4 empty.
We’re a much better team and are having a better season than the way some people are acting.
We’re only 2 points behind last seasons points total in the corresponding fixtures.
November 12th, 2008 at 19:03
@Grognard: “Fuck Neville” Really?? I can understand some frustration with a poor performance but really, is that necessary? Hes the captain of the fucking team you claim to support. How about some respect for what he has acomplished and all the success he has brought to this club. I think he deserves a little better from the likes of us.
November 12th, 2008 at 19:05
@Penguin: Sorry mate but I also think we are the best team in the world. But I am presently in the camp of the doom and gloom brigade and I feel I have a right to voice my dissatisfaction over the events of the past few months. We are not frakken wallflowers that sit around with no emotions and don’t care which direction our team goes and please spare me from the call of the eternally patient. Life is too short my friend (I have experienced that the hard way of late) to take every day life and every football season for granted. I am a fan of the best club in the world and I am proud to say I am a spoilt rotten fan. Spoilt rotten by the success of the team for the past 20 years. And I for one will be damned if sit idly by and watch the team struggle without venting my disdain and frustration with what has happened to our champions this season.
Why is it always the right wing thinking positive police who always come on this blog and start putting down the members who think a little more realistically and with a more negative minded perspective? Why do we doom and gloom types never attack the pablum and absolutely nauseating positive verbal diarrhea that comes out of some minds when things are not going well? It’s because we are more liberal in our attitudes and because it is not in our nature as negative thinkers to rain on someone else’s parade. I believe in freedom of speech for all and respect has to go with all of that. I respect the positive thinking mind (even if I don’t always agree with it) but why can’t any of the positive minded individuals respect some of my kind too? How? By simply shutting up about our attitudes and learning to be a little more tolerant and respective of alternative viewpoints. We all have a right to express our views as we see fit. So kindly keep your policing of our thoughts to yourselves.
Sorry if this offends but truly, I am offended anytime somebody comes onto this blog and tells me or others how we should feel and how we should think and express ourselves. I see my glass as half empty and for me that is positive. Why? Because then I can be ambitious enough to envision it as full one day. But if it’s half full, then you have already found contentment and fourth place should be positively a party for you now shouldn’t it? I say freedom of speech to all of us. Cry Havoc and let slip the mouths of war.
And accusing people of being bi-polar over fucking football is out of line mate. Way out of line. I know people with that disorder and that was not very pc of you.
November 12th, 2008 at 19:07
@Grognard: Sorry Grog, I dont mean any harm about this question. But are you always so negative about life and United? Please understand that I dont mean to critisise you, I just wonder.
November 12th, 2008 at 19:09
@Traverse: I’ve mentioned Arshavin for oa year now. Well before Zenit won the UEFA Cup. He would be ideal for us on the left side but he can also play AMF or the second striker role when needed too. Watching him and Ronaldo alternate on the wings would be wonderful and would create chaos for defenses too.
November 12th, 2008 at 19:09
@magno: @Grognard: I’m afraid that I think that most of what Magno wrote was complete nonsense, but two things jump out at me:
1) Not pressurising the other side until they get to the 18 yard box? Clearly you are defining “pressurising” as “forwards running randomly after centre backs”. When we have committed men to an attack, which is most of the time except on the break and against top sides, we defend very high up the pitch.
If we lose the ball in wide areas, the full-backs try to win it back within one pass (ie when the ball arrives at the opposition midfielder’s feet at the latest), and we do this often 20 yards into the opposition half. Just watch Brown or Evra next time and see where they make their first tackle when they have had a chance to move forward.
If we lose the ball in the centre, again we’re trying to win it back within one pass. We don’t drop off and let them run at us, partly because we’re content to go man-for-man on the strikers and so let the central midfielders commit to the tackle.
The only time you see us sitting off is if we clear the ball from a corner or set play and it lands directly back with the opposition - then we retain our defensive shape and let them come at us, effectively challenging them to break us down. Doesn’t happen that often.
2) I don’t buy the idea of a “lightweight” midfield at all. You talk about nobody making tackles - have you been watching Darren Fletcher this season? In any case, against 80% of the teams we play we only need one ball-winner in midfield, since the 4-5-1 tactics we have to deal with against us require a lot more emphasis on breaking down opposition. Don’t confuse tackling prowess with Chelsea’s form of midfield physicality, which involves very aggressive midfielders making repeated runs into the box and repeatedly shooting from distance.
Think back to the Treble side - we had Keano, the hardest man in the world ever, next to Scholes, who never could and still can’t tackle. You talk about us finding our style of play - well, our style of play is intelligent ball retention and screening of the defence in midfield. If you want it to be “hack lumps out of the opposition” then go and support Blackburn. The main sense in which our midfield is lightweight is its contribution to the goals tally.
I’m not saying everything’s perfect, but we play very fluid attacking football which is just as capable of scoring from a cross as from passing through the middle of a team or having one player beat men to get into a good position. Most days that works amazingly well, and if we’d beaten Arsenal 4-2 (as we could have done) nobody would be saying any of this nonsense.
Also, can I say how much it frustrates me to see people harping back to not buying more players in the summer. Arshavin and Huntelaar weren’t what this team needed - it’s the easiest thing in the world to criticise a player and introduce some fantasy pick who would “definitely be better”, but it’s not very instructive or constructive.
In short - calm the fuck down, the lot of you. Rant over.
November 12th, 2008 at 19:11
@Grognard:
Yeah, they’d be physically too weak at the moment.
I’m sure you like your food Grognard, so here is a silly cooking analogy:
United last season - World cuisine with a rare and tantalising spice (Ronaldo)
United this season- World cuisine that everyone’s tired of eating, spice not so tantalising any more
Chelsea- Meat and potatoes, never lets you down
Arsenal- Nouvelle cuisine, shockingly good but somehow there’s not enough on the plate.
Liverpool-An unsavoury mix, cooked by a fat sweaty chef
November 12th, 2008 at 19:12
@RedDevilEddy: He’s going to be available and I think it will even be in January because Zenit is 20 points behind the leaders in Russia and they are all but dead and buried in the CL too. For us not to go after him when he is clearly what we need most would be totally frustrating for me. There are just some players out there that you not only have a good feeling for but who you just instinctively believe are the perfect fit for your team. I feel this way about Arshavin.
November 12th, 2008 at 19:16
@Grognard: I’m not PC, nor are you and nor are many on this blog, and you’d have to be particularly sensitive to take that remark as detrimental to the afflicted. You know exactly what I meant and so did everyone else.
I don’t see why I’m right wing, either. The ad hominem attacks don’t really deal with my point.
Of course you’re entitled to be doom and gloom, but I’m just saying that if you look at things over the course of a whole season, the lows are never as low as they seem at the time, and often the highs (unless they occur in May) aren’t as high as all that, either. I’m not saying you have to think positively, I’m just suggesting some perspective.
Ultimately, the proliferation of this doom-and-gloom, all-our-players-are-crap-and-so-is-our-manager, we’ll never win anything again stuff is pretty tedious. Rather than fight it, I’ve stopped arguing in the comments much these days because I get overwhelmed - I did exactly what your freedom of speech argument would want me to do, I let you do your thing and went off to do my thing in my own way somewhere else.
November 12th, 2008 at 19:17
@Grognard: You grognard are a man of fine taste, care to share bottle of wine while we decide how to sort this mess out called manchester united.
There is something seriously wrong with this squad, i had a feeling something like this was going to happen maybe fergie made a deal with the devil to make john terry slip, and now this is the repercussion, united is currently the 65 year old millionaire who is having trouble getting it up and is out of Viagra all analogies aside united is lacking greatly and is like a man low on confidence suffering from erectile dysfunction maybe is mental as the players are too much in a nonchalant mood,or maybe its physiological and the players aren’t good enough or fully fit, but i doubt it, because this group more or less won the double just 6 months ago, and oh my how time has flown, i have a dirty feeling that the reason for our problem is because of two people Dimitar Berbatov and Carlos Queiroz.
Dimitar berbatov maybe affecting our forward play, wait wait hear me out, i am a HUGE fan of the Bulgarian bugger but ever since he joined us something is not right, i mean the opening 10 minutes of Liverpool united were the best i have ever seen i mean so mesmerising especially the goal, the pass from anderson the cut back by Berba and the finish by tevez, just sublime. Now i believe that is what we are building towards, yet we just do not know how to do it on a more consistent basis. Now our game relies on one winger scoring all the goals where as the strikers do the donkey work and the other winger joins in on the link up play whilst the two midfielders, one of them pulls the string and the other does the clean up duty and if the right personnel is employed the two can interchange throughout the match, thats why the trio of roo-nal-vez worked so well, because they understood that, same as anderson and hargo and scholes and carrick, regardless of who the other winger was, now this season,berba has replaced tevez and when it comes donkey work berba for as much as he tried, and you saw at the emrites he tried to work for the ball and was in the midfield most of the time which led to him having no shots for the whole match, which is a panic especially considering how much we paid for him and he being the striker we have craved for.
Now for what fergurson has to do is employ either a new tactic and make the wingers do the donkey work for the strikers like most teams do, remove berbatov for tevez, OR, what i feel he should do, make tevez the other winger, play a 4-2-2-1-1 with roo-nal-vez interchanging through out the game, this will make it a nightmare for defenders to mark the 3, berbatov will have less to worry about and the 4 brains together will be devastating, now for defence, rooney and tevez will track back so playing them there will allow them to do so and hunt for the ball meaning berba will not have too, this in theory may work, i know it’s football manager, but we have to try something new as what we are doing is now becoming boring stale and predictable
Now for the carlos querioz effect a lot of people have blamed him for our negative tactics and lack of venom in games, now hes gone WE STILL HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM. I do not want to admit it, but maybe ferurson is become cautious with age, and it is affecting us IMMENSELY, he is not giving the players the hair dryer anymore, and the team is becoming VERY VERY complacent, to use an analogy here, anderson and nani are becoming footballs robinson cano and melky cabrera repectively and if anyone knows, those two were two of the best talents in baseball but regressed HORRIBLY during the course of the season and the two are doing just that, anderson seems to have outgrown his shooting boots, and the boy before he joined united could shoot, nani is just trying to emulate ronaldo when he should try to be like david beckham, someone needs to have a sit down with the boys, and querioz could have done that, and it’s hard getting the message through a translator,
The whole team needs a kick up the arse or the community shield will be our only silverware for the season, and that is not a real silverware.
Sorry for the long post, if i had more time i would have added more to it,please comment
November 12th, 2008 at 19:17
@Stephen: Scholes style of creativity these days is how many ways he can deflate an attack by performing an unnecessary back pass 15 yards in the opposing end. He has become slow and cowardly in his play. Yes he super tidy and that’s because his passes lack any courage or conviction. They are always the safe variety that never help us offensively but always help us with possession. Possession doesn’t always win you football games. Attacking does. Other than his great goal against Barca, he rarely moves forward and even more rarely takes a shot. Sorry, I love and have great respect for Scholes but he has left his best behind him. That trio as well as EVDS is presently holding some very good youth back, and that’s just wrong. This is PROFESSIONAL football, not the Royal Legion. I’m all for respect in all the right places and situations. Sacrificing my team for past glory and respect is not one of them.
November 12th, 2008 at 19:21
@RedDevilEddy: It’s because Fergie loves and absolutely wants players who are eternally loyal and who shut the fuck up and never question him. All those other players you mention have had a big mouth, an ego or something that spoke ME instead of US to Fergie. I too think it is foolish to be looking to resign Neville when he is so clearly past his expiry date. Go figure!
November 12th, 2008 at 19:21
has anyone seen a lot of this Morgan Schneiderlin from Southampton apparently the gooners are interested, he is a holding midfielder and is only 19 years old apparently the going rate is five million might be worth a shout seen as Hargo is out.
November 12th, 2008 at 19:29
@Penguin:
I’m a old guy like Grognard, I’m very laid back, if you want to say my comments are nonsense it’s cool, but we are not gonna fucking calm down like you say…it’s just words, take it easy lad, I don’t want to be right, just saying my piece
November 12th, 2008 at 19:33
@Gabriel: I can understand why you’re not feeling a million dollars about the season so far, but I would point to two things:
1) Fixture list - so far, we’ve played Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, Blackburn, Portsmouth and Everton away, and have had an away match after every European game.
2) Injuries - for the first ten games of the season, we could barely put eleven fit senior players on the pitch, and even now we’ve only just got Carrick back, Scholes is still out and Hargreaves is gone for the season. It hard to get a rhythm going when you’re forced to make five changes for each game.
I’m not saying some of it isn’t self-inflicted, particularly the right back and GK situation. But there is plenty of scope for improvement, and plenty of reasons why we haven’t hit the heights so far. A lot of people are of the view that, given the circumstances, if we’re within five points of the leaders and still in all the cups by January, we’ll have done well and be in with a shot.
November 12th, 2008 at 19:35
@magno: OK, don’t calm down - but read what I wrote about defending high up the pitch and what we want from our midfield. I backed up my assertion with reasoned argument, even if my assertion was a bit blunt (for which I apologise in retrospect).
November 12th, 2008 at 19:56
@Grognard: Mate, Penguin wasn’t policing you people. He’s just conveying the unsettling effect the negativity has had on him. It’s not very different from the jabs you make at optimists in general. His was not personal.
November 12th, 2008 at 19:57
@Penguin: Don’t think it is your prerogative to tell people to “calm the fuck down” - who are you?. I will give you this though Penguin, you have a real penchant for the mediocre, because that is what United performances have been in most of the games played pre and this season so far. If I want to see the kind of shooting some of our highly paid players are giving us, then I can go to see that at any Rugby club in the country. This blog is for rants, and you cannot police it and tell people to shut the fuck up.
November 12th, 2008 at 19:58
@Red Ranter: You could have fooled me RR
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November 12th, 2008 at 20:04
@Craig Mc: As far as I could tell, ranting was exactly what I was doing.
Let me get this straight - I don’t think everything is rosy, and I’m not happy with our current level of performance. Amongst other things, our defending and our finishing has gone stodgy for no particularly good reason that I can see and certain players aren’t hitting the performance levels they achieved last season. If that lasts for the whole season, then all this ranting will be fully justified. But we’re three perversely tough months into a long season, and we’re not at that point yet for me.
But the waves of criticism aimed at almost everyone associated with the club and the back-breaking pessimism about our prospects unless we sack the entire management team and buy six new players strikes me as a massive over-reaction.
You think and say what you like - I’m not policing anyone, as you say I have no right to - but that’s my take on it and if it contradicts yours then so be it.
Though woe betide anyone here, it seems, who doesn’t toe the Grognard-CraigMc party line.
November 12th, 2008 at 20:04
@Grognard: And the freedom of speech argument is moot because no one, barring me, can stop you from saying what you want. So your freedom of speech is always upheld. As long as there’s nothing personal there’s no point getting wound up over what someone tells you to think over the internet.
You’ve told the optimists on this site, in the past, that they have misplaced thinking and don’t have a sense of reality. So this is only fair.
November 12th, 2008 at 20:06
@Penguin: I’m aware of the factors contributing to our current state and I’m sure we will still be in contention by January, but like I said in my post it’s the little self-inflicted problems like proper preparation, team tactics and attitude/desire that I’m worried about. I said this in a previous post, it’s the most prepared team that has the best shot at success at the end of the season (given their squad quality of course). To put it simply, we were not fully prepared (mentally, physically & tactically)
We have a very tough and rigorous first half-season schedule. We should have had this in mind, got to a 100% way before the season began, got the points in the hard games this half of the season and coasted thru the second half. Instead, we strolled into the season, expecting to conquer all without any solid pre-season preparation. Along the line, managed to claim the shield by penalties, lose to Zenit in the Supercup, claim a solitary point from a possible nine against the big four and lose 7 vital points from winning positions during important games (very uncharasteristic of United).
The drive and chemistry of the team just doesn’t seem up to scratch as of yet, which isn’t good news by November. This cannot be because of the fixture list or even injuries alone, it’s all to do with attitude and tactics. The attitude has been a very lax one of ‘we will get there soon’ all thru this season. After complacent performances, all we hear is, ‘The team is not 100% yet’ or ‘By October, we’ll be fine’. Well, it’s November and we haven’t got to that 100%, plus we still have the undesired distraction of the World club comp to disrupt us from gathering momentum in the PL.
Like I said, ‘Squeaky Bum’ time has come early for us this season and it will only do good if the club realise this and raise their game up to the levels it should be so as to positively pass through this rigorous period of the season.
November 12th, 2008 at 20:07
@Craig Mc: You are reading too much into someone saying “calm the fuck down”. Step back for a moment and pause. If someone saying calm the fuck down is so back-breakingly offensive for someone as you who loves a scrap, then I’m sorry I can’t really help you.
And using this to tell someone that he has a penchant for the mediocre — not good.
November 12th, 2008 at 20:08
@Beachryan: Two things. First regarding Neville. So what if Stoke is big and strong. Neville has become an noticeable link. Rafael is going to have to learn how to play against the Stokes at some point if he is to be our #1. It might as well be now rather than later. Putting off the inevitable only to watch what is not working now seems to be very near sighted and not at all logical in regards to this team’s long term goals. Sometimes risks and leaps of faith have to be taken in order to get better. Six years ago Fergie took a leap of faith with a lad named Ronaldo by playing him often and against all competition. No better way to learn than to throw him in against all opponents.
Secondly, this team has built itself and has invested itself on wi nning trophies. The old school way of doing things does not work if you want to compete with Chelsea both in the EPL as well as in Europe. I don’t care for always buying players either but when you don’t have a cure in house, you have to go outside to fix the problem. I’m not asking for a lot of signings. I do think however that we need a midfielder or winger who can take pressure of Ronaldo and who can add ideas and added dimension to our stale attack. And hopefully if Hargo returns next season at 100%, the need for a DMF will have been filled. Other than that, only a replacement for the aging EVDS is necessary. Foster may or may not be the man for that job. Time will tell.
November 12th, 2008 at 20:11
@Grognard: Grog, because the so called positive minded individuals live in a kind of little ‘all is well’ protective bubble, and when we tell it HOW WE think it is from our prospective, well it shakes the comfort zone a bit. Thought you knew that mate
. Well here’s to the blogs verbal terrorists, watch out Fergie and the players, we will attack where we feel attack is due. I just wish the feckin forward players would attack and for once get some shots on target, instead of in the top tiers or towards the corner flag. 
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November 12th, 2008 at 20:12
@Grognard: Sorry to contradict you again, but you’ve just come up with one of the great misunderstandings about Ronaldo’s career.
Fergie didn’t take a leap of faith and decide to play him no matter what - Ole Solskjaer was pencilled in as the regular starter on the right of midfield, and he got horribly injured, so Fergie had to play Ronaldo more than he was intending to. Similar to what happened with Anderson when Scholes got injured last year - it wasn’t part of the masterplan, it was just divine intervention.
That said, if Wes hasn’t recovered by the weekend Rafael will have to play - Neville can hardly get another game after the weekend’s showing.
November 12th, 2008 at 20:12
@Conor: I’m not advocating that we play Fabio right now. I am advocating that we play Rafael though. And defense can be taught. It’s the offensive game that both the Twins have that is god given and that will make us a greater force. If you remember back, Evra wasn’t exactly a good defender himself. Originally he was a winger converted to that position. When you have pace and ability, all things are possible.
November 12th, 2008 at 20:12
And I’m off to handle other pressing issues, so I hope you all come to an amicable solution like grown ups regarding your definitions of optimism/pessimism/realism.
Cheerio
Note: The pessimists and optimists have both been equally guilty of making jabs at one another. It’s just that they don’t realise when they do it.
November 12th, 2008 at 20:14
@Gabriel: It would have been tough to get to 100% pre-season when we had one of the worst injury crises I can remember.
November 12th, 2008 at 20:14
@Conor: Arshavin has played the attacking midfield role in the center of the park many times for both Russia and Zenit. I have seen him play LMF, LW RMF, RW, AMF and CF (second or support striker).
November 12th, 2008 at 20:16
@Conor: The team has set the bar very high. Anywhere below that bar is a disappointment to loyal but lets admit it, spoilt fans. And I include myself in that group. We can never get enough of a great thing and lets face it, this year hasn’t got the look of success written all over it.
November 12th, 2008 at 20:21
@Drew Vader: I’ll say what I like mate. If you can’t deal with it ignore my post. I don’t get caught up with over sentimentality for people who are not my kin, close friends and are nothing more than strangers who live thousands of miles away. Other than a United player what is Gary Neville to me? He is a form of entertainment. When he stops entertaining me he can kindly retire and let someone else take over. Perhaps my words come across as mean spirited and ungrateful but all they are is words from a fan thousands of miles away who is ranting his displeasure with things on a blog titled RedRants. Therefore as long as I am not telling any of you to fuck yourselves, all is fair in love and war when it comes to players. And I have heard worse being written to described Neville in the last few weeks. Why pick on me?
November 12th, 2008 at 20:24
@Red Ranter: RR, why do you think I need your help?. Your always quick to defend Penguin, but he did in fact tell those who feel strongly about the way United players are performing at the moment, to calm the fuck down. That intimates that just because they voice opinions different to his, that they are over emotional etc etc etc. I have said before, that I don’t care if people have different opinions to me, but if I want to express my opinions in a pissed off manner, why shouldn’t I?. Penguin can say what he likes, I have no coplaints about that, I appreciate we all think and FEEL differently. But some of us will respond with, “no Penguin, we have no intention of calming the fuck down”, cos I am smitten with fervency. I am one of the rampant Fervent Salford Reds, we says it how we sees it, in the manner we see it
, so does Grog and others on the blog, except they might express themselves in a more articulate way than me. Bit like you RR, but I take the point of your post Bro 
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November 12th, 2008 at 20:32
@Grognard: You know Grog, I just got to thinking about your post, that we the fans, PAY a good portion of the players wages, so we are in fact employers
. As employers, we should be miffed with below par performances by the players, because all OUR employers would soon give us the verbals if we gave them shoddy workmanship. 
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November 12th, 2008 at 20:37
@Penguin: And because you say this that is how it must be? Who made you Lord overseer of all things United mate? Do you think that you are the only one who can possibly form a concept or a thought and then be alone in transfering onto the printed page and actually make common sense and valid arguments? I think your views are completely wrong and I think the fact that you look at my views and those of Magno’s in a completely bias and thoughtless manner. I’ve watched the fucking game for 40 fucking years and I have seen many more games than most of you combined in both England and especially continental competitions so please, don’t lecture to me that what I see and what I analyse to be the case isn’t worht the time to spit on.
I have no problem with your views on the game or in the way you see the game. In fact I have been very positive in many of your authored posts of the past. But I won’t sit here and allow you to belittle mine or somebody elses viewpoints on the game when I know they are well thought out and can be backed up with hundreds of pounds of video tape showing me and Magno to be right.
The bottom line is the team plays exactly the way we have said they play and I refuse to be told by a bleeding heart positive vibes addict that I am wrong. To say that you are saying that I am blind and stupid. Trust me sir, I am neither. I know this game better than the average bear. And the ills that are currently hurting the team are very evident. The fact is United didn’t beat Arsenal 4-2. In fact they were lucky not to lose 4-2 or 5-3. They were total shit and they have technical and tactical problems that are not addressing the problem the team is experiencing due to complacency and general lack of hunger and desire.
Disagreeing with someone because you don’t see eye to eye is one thing. telling them they are wrong and that they should ” CALM THE FUCK DOWN” well that’s just rude and it’s way out of line. No Penguin, it is you who should calm down and you who should respect the alternate views of others not because they are correct, but because they are well thought out and because they have a right to be heard as well. Man it’s the day for all the goody two shoes of the Mancunian world to come out and preach their John McCain nothing is broken mantra. Meanwhile Rome burns while they play musical instruments. God give me strength to put up with this shite.
November 12th, 2008 at 20:37
@Red Ranter: Yeah, but RR the so called pessimists are the Champion boxers of this world, because we pummel the so called NICE guys to powder
. Unless it’s JB or Fred the Red, they are of the eternal optimists, nice guys, but can come in with a great sucker punch that downs you - 
. Gotta watch out for JB and Fred’s smart uppercuts 
.
November 12th, 2008 at 20:42
@Grognard: My master calm down! Let me offer you a slave named Padme to please your senses and to pleasure you!
Oh! And after finishing Gears Of War 2, I have now shifted to Call of Duty 5! Man! It Rocks! But GOW2 is still a must! DIE HITLER! DIE!
November 12th, 2008 at 20:43
@Grognard: Playing attacking midfield is not the same as playing centre mid, you know that as well as I do. Round pegs in square holes or vice-versa.
@Grognard: Seems fair, although I can definitely see success written on this season. Just because it hasn’t clicked yet doesn’t mean it won’t soon. All it needs is a few minor tweaks and we’ve got a brilliant chance of one or two trophies.
@Grognard: I know you weren’t talking about playing Fabio now, I was just giving you an update about how suitable he is to play and his injury situation, while making a point about how I’ve seen him so far.
November 12th, 2008 at 20:44
@magno: Nice food analogy mate. Here’s a another analogy involving food. When I was in my late teens I worked as a cook in a Western style Steak House in Alberta Canada (the home of the best beef in the world). I got to eat steak for free every night of the week while I was working (my uncle owned the place). Now think about that? T-Bone steak, New York cut, Top Sirloin every night. I was in heaven. Ecept after about a couple of months of eating nothing more than great steaks, I got really bored, sick and tired of eating them. In fact, several times A waitress friend of mine craved something as simple and peasant like as a Bologna or jelly and peanut butter sandwich. Why? Because too much of a good thing can be just as boring and just as stale as a starving on the streets or eating Kraft Dinner every night. The body gets to used to one thing and the brain naturally starts to crave anything else.
Well with Manchester United the flavor has been the same old stuff for a few seasons now. Not only are the players bored with it but the opposition has caught the scent and now they are prepared for it. The moral of this story is simple. Repetition gets stale and eventually your opponent catches up to you.
November 12th, 2008 at 20:46
@Craig Mc: I’ve defended you in the past too when I’ve felt it reasonable, and so have I defended Grog. I can’t be too arsed about favoritism because I don’t know any of you personally.
November 12th, 2008 at 20:47
@Gabriel: Never a truer word was spoken Bro, I agree fully
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November 12th, 2008 at 20:51
@Craig Mc: And to be fair, I think he apologised for the bluntness of his statements.
My point is the pessimists have had their share of belittling the optimists on this blog in the past. But they haven’t been up in arms over it. It’s a case of perspective, and from time to time frustrations can boil over.
November 12th, 2008 at 20:56
@Red Ranter: RR this is what I mean about perception. You THINK I was saying that you favour Penguin, when what I was trying to say, is that your defending of him, though admirable at times, in this instance it was indefensible, because he said what he said. Bloody hell, I’m not into the teachers pet thing RR, and I know your not too, so be honest Bro
. I’ve had a lot of sabre rattling with Penguin, plus others, but we always get it sorted, and I have found that Penguin, and many others on this blog get over scraps very quickly, and don’t bear grudges. This is good. If it is left alone, then people do say whatever they say, get some comeback, and then we move on. No need to worry RR, you got too much other things in your life to worry about, than argy-bargy from us blog players. Storms in teacups get resolved but are fun while they last. You can be too caring you know RR, but we all love you anyway Bro - for sure 
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November 12th, 2008 at 20:58
@Red Diablo: Man, how is COD 5? I loved COD 4 and Ive been waiting for that game for ages! How is it?
November 12th, 2008 at 20:59
@Red Ranter: I know, and like I said, its fun
.
November 12th, 2008 at 21:00
@RedDevilEddy: COD5? Its really amazing! Although the guns are old. Its based on WWII but it still has great graphics! But BUY GEARS OF WAR 2 First! That is the game the 360 was made for!
November 12th, 2008 at 21:01
@Penguin: You are assuming that I am some fly by the seat of the pants idiot that is incapable of seeing things over the long term. How many sports to you loyally support? I have supported five professional sporst for 40 years and I have seen more ups and downs form teams than you can ever imagine. I’ve seen what is happening to United so many times I can’t mention it. Whether it’s in baseball, American football, hockey, basketball or even Canadian football. I am not wet behind the ears and accusing me of using to many homonyms is nothing more than a pretentious academic insult designed to elevate your manner of thinking over mine. Trust me mate, you are out of your league there.
And none of us have ever said all our players are crap and our manager is crap and that we’ll never win anything ever again. And you wonder why I think you are right wing. Because your conservative and positive message always includes a disclamer against individuals who do not think or share your mindset. See if you can wrap yourself around that concept. You are so quick to call our rants and our ideas and concerns “nonsense” and then exaggerate everything we have said to make us out to be fools also.
Some of us may be very concerned with many aspect to the team right now, but I for one can say that my concerns are well founded and well thought out and I won’t have anyone disagree with me by calling them foolish or nonsense. Disagree all you want, and make your argument. And I see where much of your argument does make sense and has legs to stand on. But to not see that both Mgno and myself made some very sound and valid arguments tells me all I need to know about you. And believe me when I say that your attitude is so embedded in the the camp of PC values and views that to actually accuse me of being as PC says just how little you know of me and my rants. The last guy in the world who is pc or conformist is me. But what I am is fair and I am the loudest advocate of freedom of speech and thought. And I’ll battle anyone who stands in the way of that. Having said and gotten that frustration and disappointment of my chest, lets say this has been a rather volatile rant and I’d rather get back to just talking football. I hope you can be a little more liberal and tolerant of other views in the future mate.
November 12th, 2008 at 21:13
@Penguin: Penguin, I haven’t read anywhere that people feel the whole management team should be fired, ot that we need to buy six players, so that is in fact an over reaction in the perception of what people are saying isn’t it mate?. What I am hearing and reading is that people have a problem with our performances in the final 3rd of the pitch. Our WILD shooting, and no seeming rhyme or reason to substituting of players, and lack of tactical thinking in substitutions. I stand on my thinking on this Penguin, because I believe I am right, as you believe you are right - that’s life, differing though, but you know that anyway Penguin. I only queried your comment telling people to shut the fuck up, nothing else you said. I take no issue with any other content of your post Penguin, so are we
now then?.
November 12th, 2008 at 21:15
O and by the way Penguin, I apologise for the ‘penchant for the mundane etc’ comment.
November 12th, 2008 at 21:15
@Red Diablo: I will buy both! Is Hitler in the game? I wanna shoot him in the head so the blod splats all over my screen. That fucking maniac is someone I would like to go back in time for to then boil him!
Just like Calderon… 
November 12th, 2008 at 21:17
@Mr.Muhozi: Some very good points my friend and I would love to one day share a bottle of fine port with you.
I agree with much of what you say. I think that United and Fergie remind me of very rich conservative individuals like John McCain who live in the United States and who see the economy failing, gas prices skyrocketing, people losing their jobs and health crisis and other social ills paralyzing the country, but yet like to tell people that all is well and that the country ids fundamentally well off if they continue to follow the Bush doctrine for getting things NOT done.
Yes Fergie has grown old and maybe this last Double has softened beyond hope. He has mellowed over the years and he is very near retirement and who really knows what other health problems he may have. We are certainly not privy to them. I know for myself that doctors have told me to avoid getingoverly upset and into arguments because of my ticky ticker. Perhaps Fergie has also been told to avoid throwing fits of rage, kicking shoes or using hairdryers on players. I don’t really know. But what I do know is tha even Spurs was able to right it’s ship and raise it from the depths before it actually became the Titanic. With all the quality we have on this team I find it hard to stomach and even harder to understand how we can let inferior opponents beat us or even challenge us. Such is the fickle nature of the game and sports in general.
So what do we do about it. Well truly, I am tired of expressing the methods I’d use. All I know is something would be better than nothing. I am not a patient individual by nature but even being patient is not going to solve this problem. This team need changes in approach, personnel and coaching last year but the quality of Ronaldo and a few others had us play above ourselves and actually win the Double. Sure we are a good side, but without Ronaldo or a Ronaldo that is 100% in shape and form we are a very ordinary side that would struggle to be a top four team. I honestly felt that Berbatov would be the missing link that would elevate us into a true world beater with or without Ronaldo. That clearly isn’t the case. Yes tactics and lineups have a lot to do with this but for me the real problem is Fergie stubbornness to continually play players who are long past their best and then when he doesn’t, he plays players who are clearly young but not as good as we thought they would be. The only way to correct this is to play these young players until they hopefully emerge into something or go out and buy replacements. Whatever they do, playing Giggs, Scholes, Neville and EVDS is not the answer. And all the patient positive minded individuals are free to disagree. Only time will tell who is right here. And if I am wrong, I am man enough to admit it. How many of these positve sweet as shit types are willing to do that if we give the status quo another four months to work?
November 12th, 2008 at 21:18
@magno: Well said mate. Some people need to know and show more respect.
November 12th, 2008 at 21:21
@Red Ranter: Then he should go see a doctor. You know this about me mate. I don’t appreciate people who try to stifle free thinking. I know Penguin’s your mate but he is dead wrong and truthfully, he should apologize for insulting myself, Magno and others who are free thinking, intelligent individuals who don’t share his way of thinking. Having said that, I don’t expect him to do so.
November 12th, 2008 at 21:22
@Craig Mc: Classic. Luv ya Bro.
November 12th, 2008 at 21:27
@Penguin: Just a load of total horse shit and complete exaggeration. Nobody has been that ridiculous or that negative. You are just saying that to make your case. And in my court of law you are guilty as sin. And now we have to drag poor Craig into it. He is constantly very positive and free thinking and in fact loves many of the young players on this team like Nani. So what exactly are you saying mate and who are you saying it against? Honest to God, in the past I have loved what you have written whether I agreed with it or not, but today you have just gotten on my nerves. This is just a rant and although it may seem personal it isn’t, I am fighting for a point of view and a right to express it. It’s really a shame that you cannot see it or above all, respect it.
November 12th, 2008 at 21:31
@Red Ranter: No it is not fair. When somebody challenges our point of view due to it’s 180 degree difference, that has everything to do with freedom of speech. When someone accuse people with different viewpoints as being bi-polar and then tells them to “calm the fuck down”, I take exception to it. And damn it RR, I am right here. I’m sure Penguin is a fine bloke but today he is out of line.
November 12th, 2008 at 21:34
Go on Fraizier Campbell…you beauty!!!!!
November 12th, 2008 at 21:34
by the way, super campbell has got 2 goals for spurs right now, scoring against the scum of merseyside… anyone that scores against the dippers (bar silvestre
) deserves a chance at united.
November 12th, 2008 at 21:34
@Red Ranter: It’s in the context of the rant and the rants before it. He isn’t the only one to feel this way. I feel like a complete stranger walked up to me at an Obama rally and told me to shut the fuck up. Not as rough an analogy as you may think. It all comes about regarding his tolerance of us, not ours of him. I felt like the lone gay guy (note; I a not gay) at an Evangelical rally.
November 12th, 2008 at 21:35
my o my!! is it gettin hot in here or what!!
The jabs are flying and boy do they sting 
The one thing that cannot be denied though, is United’s ongoing poor/inconsistent form is the reason for this heated debate. Hence, the doom and gloom is in some way warranted. We can still look on the bright side, but really, we have been doing that for the last two months and I’m worried that it’s causing some (esp the club) to overlook the obvious negative/potentially destructive traits impairing the team at the moment.
November 12th, 2008 at 21:37
@Craig Mc: I hear you mate. But unlike most I love to pop that protective bubble once in a while and let them have a dose of what the rest of the world is seeing and experiencing.
November 12th, 2008 at 21:39
@dan(u-ol):
brilliant eh?
November 12th, 2008 at 21:39
@Penguin: I’ll grant you that one but he still did not have to play him. Fergie is often creative enough to play many players out of position. In fact he prefers that than to play young players in must win games. It’s the fact that Ronaldo was so bloody talented he could not help himself. In fact, he probably over played him his first season. Still, your point and correction is a valid one.
November 12th, 2008 at 21:42
@Red Ranter: Have no fear RR. We are having a major disagreement but I for one am not holding any grudges and in general I have a great deal of respect for Penguin and his views. Just not all of them today. And that’s fine too. Sometimes we all need to let off a little harmless steam at each other to better get to know what makes each other tick and to not jump to conclusion over who and what we really are.
November 12th, 2008 at 21:45
@Gabriel: Jab, Jab, Jab, sting, sting, sting,
. Fly like a butterfly, STING like a bee 
. Oh we football terrorists are BAD 
.
November 12th, 2008 at 21:47
@Craig Mc: They are nothing without us mate. Not just the fans who go to the matches like you, but all of us who pay for the pay tv rights, who buy the merchandise. We all have a right to voice our dissatisfaction just as we should be more than happy and appreciative the lads and management when the team does well. This is capitalism and in this democracy we all have a right to view our feelings and to cry bloody murder if we have been wronged. United matters a lot tall of us and personally speaking, if my car is not working well, I am more apt to give it a good kick in the bumper rather than stroke it’s hood and give it a get well kiss. And I love my car.
November 12th, 2008 at 21:49
@Grognard: Would you kick it if it was a lamborghini as wel??
November 12th, 2008 at 21:49
@Red Diablo: Sorry but I am far too busy installing an even more powerful laser on the Death Star (aka; my mouth) to be disturbed.
I feel a stirring in the Dark Side of the Force. THe Sith has definitely come out in me today. 
November 12th, 2008 at 21:52
@Red Ranter: That’s not an apology. An apology sounds something like this. I am sorry if I insulted or offended you. Pleas accept my heartfelt and sin