Mar 01
Man Utd v Tottenham: Carling Cup Final Preview
Roman Pavlyuchenko made some very strange remarks. Very, very strangely timed remarks indeed. Either the import of his remarks may have been lost in translation (the quotes attributed to him clearly seem from someone with a reasonable command of the Queen’s language), or he needs to be coached on the benefits of good PR. Or, perhaps, he’s another victim of, what I call, a feeder-club complex.
‘Now, what is that?’, you may ask. That, gentle reader, is a condition which afflicts players who feel they are too big for their club and aspire to be among a higher level of footballing fraternity. In recent times, it’s become a way of life in Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. They’ve been feeding the likes of Arsenal, Liverpool and, more specifically, Manchester United. We thank them profusely for Michael Carrick and Dimitar Berbatov. But I wouldn’t be too excited over Roman Pavlyuchenko.
Flippancy aside, I would be particularly concerned about the type of comments the Russian had made if I were a Tottenham fan — thank heavens I am not.
“It would be wrong not to dream about this. I have realised that the English Premier League is exactly why you should start playing football in the first place. And Manchester United is the leader of it. Once your first dream comes true you must start dreaming of another target.”
Er, it would never be wrong of you to be dreaming about anything. But opening your mouth ahead of a Carling Cup final feels about as right as George Bush expounding the nuances of quantum physics. He also goes on about how Dimitar Berbatov was arrogant, at which point, I ascertained his head might be well close to his rectal cavities and realised I’d already made up my mind on what I think of him. Twat!
Anyway we must move on to things of greater significance here because, this match, as you must have all by now known, is a must win for us: it’s our door to qualifying for the UEFA Cup (or the Europa Cup). And considering it’s one tournament Fergie’s never entered with this lot, I suppose this game will be like a cup final for us.
Oh.
Tottenham are the defending champions of this trophy, although their squad has seen 1,678,953 changes in personnel ever since. So maybe, there’s our chance in nicking it from their grasp.
I think we’ll start as underdogs, because injury to Rafael and Fergie deciding to give Gibson and Welbeck a chance will surely make Spurs a much stronger side. Surely they’ll teach our side a footballing lesson?
Oh.
Prediction: 2-0 to United.
PS: fingers firmly crossed lest cocky nature of above post jinx our beloved side.
Related items from Red Rants:
- Man Utd v Tottenham: Preview
- Man Utd v Stoke: Preview
- Man Utd v Everton: Preview
- Man Utd v Spurs match thread
- Rooney Out For A Month
Tags: Manchester United News
Opti (541)
Stephen (479)
RedDevilEddy (459)
Craig Mc (345)
Moscow is my heaven (272)
@Martin: Jeez! Some of you guys are putting words into my mouth. All I said was that the lad played a great game and showed more promise. But for me at least, the jury was still out. Where in my words did I admit that he looked like a great keeper? He’s have to play like that on a more consistent basis for me to make that claim. But yes, he did play great yesterday. Bay steps.
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In the words of someone last week:
Tevez sacrificed himself for the team…
Seriously, Tevez had a poor performance yesterday. It seems like all his first touches were bad during the game…pity…I still believe there’s a place for him in our team though. But, I wonder if he’s already resigned to leaving and just don’t give a shit? Then again, it was a bad performance by almost everyone (especially our midfield).
Mr. Anderson… pity his goalscoring is so poor…2 goals = 2 cups. Imagine if he start scoring regularly? I sincerely hope that this goal will kick-start his career. I really hope so. Extremely glad ‘The One’ is back.
I’m not going to complain much about the performance because at this point, the most important thing is, WE WON THE CUP!
Well done Manchester United!!!
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@Redrich: Listen Mate RUUD is a legend, was Man Utd thru and thru, and didn’t deserve the shabby treatment he got by the Ferg. Sorry but I will never agree with Fergie over the Stam, Ruud, or Becks treatment. Peace out.
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@Redrich: I agree with you, Evra was made to look VERY ordinary by Aaron Lennon yesterday. In butchers terms, Evra was skinned aplenty.
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@Grognard: Ruud – Man Utd LEGEND forever – end of.
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@Redrich: Fergie didn’t fall out with Veron, he just didn’t settle.
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Stephen, yeah your right, but Veron’s take on it was that Fergie sold him on to Chelsea without really giving him time to come good at OT. See what I mean about different players/clubs having different take on things
.
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@Craig Mc: I loved RVN too Bro until he spent the last three seasons bad mouthing Fergie and the team and trying through the media to convince his arch nemesis Ronaldo to turn his back on United and join Real Madrid. It was sleazy and wreaked of no class. He was a great player for us but those days are over and I’ll remember him fondly for his contributions. As for forgiveness and all, I don’t think so. I was 100% on his side through the whole affair (the fact that I hated Saha helped) and I felt betrayed by Fergie when he did what he did. But I have learned over the years not through wisdom or logic but just from experience and awareness, that trusting da man, Sir Alex Ferguson and showing loyalty, trust and faith in him is all that we need concern ourselves with.
Players come and go, but we will never ever ever find a leader for our team like the one we have now. And although I have questioned his decisions and his attitude towards Beckham, RVN, Stam, Keane and others who found themselves outsiders looking in, I know and believe that he acted on behalf of the team’s best interest and on a code that he believes to be correct and virtuous. And based on his success and the loyalty that many have shown him, who am I to argue with that? Like I said, I may criticize him a bit but I did the same towards my father. We had titanic arguments but I loved him nonetheless. And I love the great Fergie in the same manner. RVN be damned with your two faced stab in the back attitude. There is no mending of burned bridges when RVN crawled into bed with Real Madrid and decided to operate this campaign of bitterness and duplicate betrayal, that was his Waterloo when it comes to ever being forgiven and considered on of us ever again. In history, traitors and turncoats are shot.
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@Stephen: That’s right. And if some of you are not aware Veron has come out and said very complimentary things about Fergie, Man Utd and his time here. He was very disappointed in himself and cannot understand why he failed and let us all down. He holds no grudge or animosity towards the Boss and has nothing but the highest respect for him and cannot blame him for his decision to sell him. Now that’s class. RVN could stand to learn from Juan Sebastian Veron.
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@Craig Mc: I absolutely agree that RVN is a United legend in our time. At his peak he was a goal scoring machine to the likes of which we haven’t seen since or likely to see in the foreseeable future.
My point, though, is that if he thinks he can make a comeback here, he is very much mistaken. Even if his skills were that of 3 years ago, SAF would not allow it. Maybe because of pride or steely resolve or whatever, SAF just doesn’t do 180′s.
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@Grognard: Spot on mate, I saw him play at home against Everton and he was superb, totally ran the game, class player wish he worked out, but not to be.
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Reading an earlier comment i hear about veron and that he couldnt settle and thats why he left which is completely correct. Just thinking though about veron as a player and i gotta say how do you think we would have been for us, had he joined us now, obviously when he was his age back then and at his peak. The way we played back then we were really a very british team. We had keane as the enforcer, scholes who was basically like a second striker and giggs and beckham on the wings. I think had he come now he would have fitted into our team brilliantly. Our team now would suit him well and i feel his only problem back then was he never got to play in his natural position because we had a sort of undroppable set of players. In the champs league however we saw him play more in the CM role and he looked excellent. I remember him running the show against juve at their yard back in 2003, and a beautiful chip over the keeper in some game. He looked world class in the champs league. I still rate him as a player and hate it when i hear others saying he was a terrible signing because he wasnt, he was just unlucky. He had undoubted class but maybe we just werent the right style team for him, now adays though we play more like a foreign team so i think he would have fitten into this team easy.
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@Matt: Agreed. Added to the fact that the latin contingent was nowhere near what it is now. That would have greatly helped him in settling.
I should mention that at the time Veron was probably my favourite player fro any other tream but I was baffled by the signing as, so you said, we had a perfect four man midfield. A player of his quality just couldn’t a settle fo the bench.
And by the way should I also mention that at his peak Beckham also played quite similar to Veron – it always bugs me that people tend to forget Becks’ technical game in his vintage years and was much more than what he finally turned out to be – a caricature of himself, i.e. a crossing machine..
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http://www.viewlondon.co.uk/news/agent-claims-united-want-ribery-19053389.html
what do you guys think?
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@Matt: I think that goal was against Olympiakos at home. My favorite moments from him weren’t any of his goals but two of his passes. The first was a sweeping pass down the middle of the pitch with the outside of his boot to set Beckham free to chip the keeper from 25 yards against Birmingham. The other was the pinpoint long range pass onto Forlan’s boot to score the winner against Chelsea in 2002.
Unfortunately Veron was the victim of circumstance, the wrong man at the wrong time. The transfer pot available that summer was never intended for him, but for Patrick Vieira. When that particular transfer collapsed, SAF with left with a pile of money burning a hole in his pocket and an itch to spend. As a result you get a transfer that maybe wasn’t as well though out as it should have been. Not that it mattered to most fans at the time who were over the moon with the signing.
I never though he was as big a flop as some of the media and other clubs supporters like to make out. I still feel that it was a mistake to sell him in 2003 after Beckham had left and I though we was showing signs of adapting properly to the league before his ankle/ligament injuries earlier that year.
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@JB: Didn’t Keane admit (in his autobiography I think) that he was the main culprit in ensuring that Veron did not settle in the team?
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@Karl: I read his autobiography some time ago, but I don’t remember any specific reference about Veron adapting to the club in it. Certainly though I would consider Roy a factor, if Veron was going to be a success I believe he had to be made the team’s playmaker however the role remained with Keane. In retrospect he was a signing that didn’t have enough thought put into how he would fit into the team.
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I think its fair to say veron was an excellent player, just for mainly settling in reasons, he never adapted to us. As Nico says though today the large latin contingent would have helped him settle in so i feel sorry for him thinking back that he had no one to help him back then. If we had seen his best he could have been a great for us but i feel very strongly when i hear he was a terrible signing and 1 of the worst by ferguson. He was a real talent, potentially world great, kleberson and djemba werent so how he can be put in those 2 categories is madness.
JB, the summer we signed veron and ruud i didnt know we were so serious of signing of viera. I was like 11 back then so i cant remember too well, i remember hearing we weree interested in him but were we really interested in him or just like on a wishlist. Were arsenal willing to sell or was it viera who didnt want to leave. Just wondering had viera joined where the hell would he have fitted in. We already had roy keane so why the need for patrick. Sorry for all the questions but i never knew much about the viera chase because i was so young.
ROOOOONEY, if ronaldo does leave the only player i do want is ribery, he is class so yes if ronaldo does leave i hope his agent is speaking the truth cos he is the only player who we can realistically get who can replace ronnie. Dont think however ronaldo will leave til fergie does which may be some time so this agent talk may not matter anyway.
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@Matt: As I remember it Arsenal made a statement confirming we had officially contacted them with regards to a transfer, confirmed by Kenyon at the time. In addition I believe Wenger accused us of tapping Viera up that year. It was much further down the line than the usual wishlisting that goes on every summer.
Arsenal’s stance was that he was not for sale at any price however it looked like they would have no other choice but to let him go. Viera came out and openly attacked the ambition, financial situation and transfer policy of Arsenal and Wenger himself. The consensus in the media at the time was that he had burned all bridges and it was a matter of where he would go (be it United, Real or Juve) rather than if. You would need to ask an Arsenal fan for more details on it but Wenger obviously managed to talk him round someway or another.
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Where is everyone?
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@JB: I think I read it about 2 years ago, after his stint at Celtic. In that article he mentioned that he did not really want Veron to succeed and that he and the lads were a bit tough with him because he came with a huge reputation.
I dont mean that he is the reason for Veron’s failure, but I believe it contributed a lot).
I googled this portion at least:
http://www.joinmust.org/forum/showthread.php?t=29169
extract…
“While in that Edinburgh hotel, travelling to and from training, missing his Manchester-based family, he thought about Sebastian Veron, his one-time Argentinian teammate at United. “Celtic couldn’t have done enough for me, but it was a lonely life and I wish now I had been a bit easier on some of the foreign lads who came to United. I always thought, ‘You’re on the pitch now, do it.’ I regret that now. I was very hard on Seba, and I was wrong. When he came, I was expecting miracles. When they didn’t happen, I was always homing in on him, and I now know it takes time.”
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Liverpool could trip up further tonight as Sunderland have openly said they are going there to park the bus. Liverpool will be without Torres, and Gerrard will play injured. Portsmouth’ll do the same at home to Chelsea, Rooney is fit to face Newcastle tomorrow, and it looks like he’ll start upfront with Berbatov.
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@Traverse: It shall be interesting to see……….
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RR post a new thread!
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@Karl: Very enlightening. Added to the fact that Keane moved from a British town to another. Now, Veron had to make the move from one entirely different culture to another.
Wonder what he’s doing now?
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@NicoQB: He’s playin in the Argentine league for Estudiantes!
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@Rahul: Yeah, god bless wikipedia:
“…In early 2008, several football personalities chose Verón as the best player in the Argentine league [8] [9]. In December 2008, Verón was elected South American Footballer of the Year by Uruguayan diary El País, a title that is cited worldwide..”
It seems he finally found his feet again, though I pity him as even in his homeland of Argentina, the population resent his disappointing international showings…
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@NicoQB: Actually I knew from Fifa 09, I had recently taken him on loan cuz I didnt wanna sell or buy anyone.
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@Rahul: Its Argentina, they always (almost) base a player on how he plays for the national team.
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or maybe it was Fifa 08!
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So, any thoughts on tomorrow’s game? A midweek game coming after an exhausting Carling Cup Final. Many of our boys could very well be exhausted. Seriously though, don’t look for Ronaldo to start. If he does, then Fergie has completely lost it has no common sense when it comest to keeping our star asset fresh and healthy.
Obviously we will see the return of Berbatov and Rooney as well as Carrick, Park and EVDS. All rested and ready to go. But our back four may be stretched again and this time they are coming of 120 minutes on a soft and unstable pitch. Fatigue could be the key.
Tomorrow is such a big game for us. It’s nail in the coffin time lads. There is a possibility we could be ten points up on both Liverpool and Chelsea but seeing as they are playing today, the most probable scenario will still be a chance to stay seven points in front with a game in hand.
These next 14 days will be the make or break period of our season. If we come out of fairly unblemished, then the league is definitely ours and it will be ours in a cake walk. However, if we suffer any kind of Barcelona style hiccup here, then we open the door to two incredibly undeserving teams to could be right back in this the race. What a time to have so many games in such a short period of time and to have our Champions League future also hang in the balance. Balancing and juggling our squad will be so key for us and there is nobody better at this than Fergie. But injuries and fatigue to some key players like O’Shea, Neville, Evans, Rafael, Evra and Tevez may cause us problems. Evra and Tevez looked very tired and way off their game on Sunday. They need to rebound.
I have to be honest, I am super nervous about the next few weeks. Inter Milan is crap in my eyes but that return leg scares me because we look so lethargic and tired in so many areas and we now have gone 210 minutes plus injury time without scoring a goal. No we aren’t Arsenal but I am concerned nonetheless. We need some players to step up and be big for us and we also need some luck. Like Ronaldo not hitting a post with seconds left in a game. Fingers crossed chaps.
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@Grognard: ronaldo hasnt been that great this season, certainly not good enough to be called our “star asset” The more games he has the better to be honest, he needs to find his form.
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We can forget Liverpool. A Chelsea side led by Hiddink is going to give us some problems. After all he has a real talent for getting the best out of mediocre teams hehe
Im also getting a bit nervous about the Inter game. There have been very few games this season when we’ve managed to score more than two goals. So if Inter get a lucky goal we are really going to struggle. People rave about how we dominated the first leg. But the fact is we got very few if any shots on target from open play.
Also our defensive line looks sorely tested. Evans had to have another injection, Evra was uncharacteristically crap and O’Shea is probably still carrying that injury.
We are comfortably ahead of the chasing pack. So I reckon we should make use of our squad depth and field this line up
EVDS, Neville, Vidic, Rio, Fabio, Park, Carrick, Fletcher, Nani, Berbatov, Rooney
Evra, O’Shea, Evans and Ronaldo definitely need a rest. Id also give Anderson thirty minutes to see if he can build on the impressive showing against Tottenham, and Tevez half an hour if Rooney starts to tire….he’s short on match fitness and back from the flu.
EVDS,
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L’Arse finally scored.
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@Dan: Get of your soap box mate. Sometimes I just wonder if you argue with me for the sake of arguing. What you just said is as lame as it gets. The player at 50% is better than any other player we have and it hasn’t been two months since he was voted world’s best player. Even when hi is off form, he’s better than most out there. So enough. Who are you going to nominate above him, Welbeck, Possebon, Campbell, Eckersley or are you going to be brave and actually pick a first squad player? Sorry mate, but if you said that kind of rubbish on any other site, that community would laugh you right off it. Please, don’t insult my intelligence by trying to tell me that Ronaldo is not our best player. Honestly mate, sometimes you can frustrate me so.
Still, I love ya. 
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@Dan: If not Ronaldo, Who has been then???
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Form is temporary, class is permanent. Forget the subjective aspect. As a financial asset….Ronaldo is worth at least £80 million. That is twice the value of any other player we have. His goals are also worth their weight in gold because quite frankly none of our strikers can be relied upon. It is telling that he has still scored twice as many as any of our other players despite coming back from an injury and being in bad form. He also looks worse than he really is this season because every time he gets the ball the opposition players cynically foul him. He singlehandedly wins us at least five free kicks each match. If only he did not insist on shooting everytime.
If referees actually gave him some protection and punished these cynical fouls with cards, then it would be much more obvious how good he is. Also think about all the penalties he wins us, and the clear penalties that refs don’t give just because it is Ronaldo.
I would say Ronaldo is the only player we have who is irreplaceable.
Having said that I do feel that our defence doesn’t get the praise it deserves. Rio and Vidic are the best central defensive pairing in the world by quite some distance. I remember the years when we had a dodgy defence and it always cost us especially in Europe. Our attack is only able to get away with being so wasteful because of the quality of our defence.
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@colver: No player is worth £80m. That’s a lot of tabloid BS imo, looking for transfer sagas to fill column inches. If somebody is stupid enough to pay that much for him I wouldn’t be opposed to selling him and buying Ribery/Aguero or both to fill the void and maybe even have change leftover.
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@colver: Ronnie is still by far the biggest threat on goal – less so from free kicks! We miss Rooney when he doesn’t play and the pair still have by far the strongest chemistry going forward. Ronaldo is obviously being told to stay more on the touchline this season which spreads our shape but he seems less inclined to take on his opposite number as a winger might. Lennon played much more like an orthodox winger but his end product was poor.
The midfield and attack is still at an ‘under construction’ stage and yet we’re poor odds on winning the lot. This season is weird but without question, our defence is beyond awesome.
I was very encouraged by Andy’s showing on sunday and feel he is on the brink of a significant breakthrough. The injection of pace he offers is a vital ingredient. I think that is one of the reasons Giggs is getting a lot of game time as he also has that sudden change of pace and the dribbling skill to get clear.
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Does anyone know if there is any truth to these Ribery rumours? If so is there any chance we could get him before Real Madrid sign him up? We could sell Nani to raise some transfer funds. With Ronaldo on the right and Ribery on the left we would be unstoppable.
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@colver: i saw the Lyon v Bayern game re-run from before Christmas. Ribery was absolutely fantastic, he’s some player, tenacious, skillfull, intelligent and driven, got to say i immediately saw him as a Red Devil. This is the first player i’ve seen in a long time thats excited me like this, i know Grog has been going on about him for awhile now, but there’s nothing like seeing it for yourself! Buy him buy him buy him BUY HIM!
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@colver: The rumors of Ribery coming to United have heated up bit only if we lose Ronaldo to Madrid. Supposedly, he would be Fergie’s hand picked replacement for Ronny. This is just BS rumors. Other rumors that are flying is that Ribery has already agreed to terms with Barcelona provided Barca agree to terms with Bayern.
Now I would like to say that the rumors of Ribery leaving Bayern are generally BS but lately, Franck has been leaving a bad taste in the mouths of Bayern’s brass, namely Herr’s Beckenbauer, Rummenigge and Hoeness. They all love this player and don’t want to part with such an asset but he has been opening his mouth more and more this season bitching about Bayern not spending the kind of money on players he thinks is necessary for Bayern’s success in the Champions League. Ribery is obsessed with the Champions League. What really pisses me off is that Bayern has looked like the best team in the competition this season. Just last week they destroyed Sporting in Lisbon 5-0, with Ribery scoring twice and assisting on two. The thing that gets under my skin is that the team has spent plenty in the last two years to become Champions League competitive. They bought Ribery, Toni, Klose, Altintop, Ze Roberto, Borowski and got Oddo on loan for the purpose of being very competitive. What else does Ribery want? Apparently he wants the world.
Last season he was quiet and content and was the best player in Germany and should have been a finalist for the Balon D’Or. This year, he started off injured came back, took a while to get in shape and at times has looked great but other times has bitched and moaned about this and that and has struggled to find his consistency. Sound like anybody else we know? I think he is suffering from Ronny Egoitis. Some players just have it in them to think they are bigger and better than their team. In some cases they are right and Ribery as well as Ronaldo can make a case about their greatness. But here is the thing Franck, like Ronaldo, you signed a long contract. Ribery’s contract is up in 2011. So until then, I suggest he shut’s his ugly pie hole and settles in and continues his German lessons because it will take a lot of money to get him.
Certainly United will not pay the money Bayern will be demanding to part with this super player but flaky ego. Barca on the other hand may have the money and the motivation. Look for a Ribery move to Barca after the season is over for about 40 million. As for United, yes Ribery on the left and Ronaldo on the right is a great fantasy, but that is all it is. I think we can look forward to United coming up with the package that will guarantee Ronaldo stays here with us until say 2014. In order for that kind of deal to be be made, we will have to sacrifice a lot of future purchases. So the real question is, Does Ronaldo merit that kind of money and is he worth that much to us that we miss out on players like Ribery?
I love Ribery but Ronaldo is better than him and only has one other player on the planet that can be compared to him. That’s Leo Messi. So for me it’s simple, keep Ronaldo and tell Ribery to stay in Bayern where he is loved and appreciated. Now if he would show the Bayern faithful the same sentiment and spirit……
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Ribery is another classic example of a player we could have gotten had Fergie fancied him before his price escalated skywards. Frankly, this is a part of Ferguson’s transfer policies that I cannot stand. Going after player s a year or two too late. Why spend 32 million on a Berbatov when you could have gotten him for ten two years earlier? Why go after Ribery now when he will be at the very least worth 40 million when just last year they could have gotten him for under 20 million? Bottom line is that sometimes the Boss jumps on the bandwagon a bit too late. Mark my words the same thing will happen with Sergio Aguero and has already happened with Benzema. He can get a Rene Adler or Artur Boruc for a decent price right now but watch their price escalate once EVDS officially announces his retirement. United always end up paying much more for a player and it’s because Fergie procrastinates. It’s exasperating.
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@Grognard: Well I’m not sure Ribery is fancied by SAF. The idea of Ronaldo leaving this summer is pure speculation and from what I’ve heard he’s due to have a renegotiated contract in the effort to secure his future at United for years to come.
I think its fair to say that we generally do overpay for our immediate needs but there are plenty of examples where we have paid a reasonable or below market price. Evra, Vidic, and Park, are all terrific value when you consider their combined cost was around 17mil.
SAF tends to court players he admires (soft tapping) and then moves on them if his team needs are not met. I thought he overpaid for Berbatov and seemed to be over the barrel by Levy, but considering our anemic goal scoring this year that 32mil could well deliver us an epic season!!
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@Grognard: Fergie did try to sign berbatov before he went to spurs, he chose tottenham over united.
Fergie will be going nowhere near boruc, he is a mess.
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Not much going on here, is there??
Have to say the game against the Toons is pivotal to me. A decisive victory will send a message to Chelsea and Liverpool that, regardless of their strongest efforts, we will prevail. On the other hand if we drop points, it will fuel their fires and at the same time put a little doubt in the heads of our young squad!!
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Preview up, lads
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@Grognard: Wow, so somehow i insulted you? wow, maybe i should just leave if you cant stomach another guys opinion. that was low, and the fact that you tried to turn it around to make me look like the bad guy was even lower.
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@Grognard: I am actually with Dan on this one. It’s not unreasonable for someone to say that Ronaldo hasn’t been our star asset this season when the real star for us has been Vidic. If you asked for a player from our squad he is one.
You asked for views, and Dan responded with his opinion on Ronaldo. And I beg to disagree with him being laughed off forums for suggesting that Ronaldo hasn’t been our best player this season. He’s very good, but I’ve encountered countless people who haven’t viewed Ronnie in glowing terms on the pitch this season — and a lot of them are not viewing him from the prism of his summer antics.
There’s been a disagreement here, no insult to intelligence. Nothing more.
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@Red Ranter: Vidic has been our best player this season. Not even in question.
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