Sep 17
Man Utd v Villarreal: Preview
We return to Old Trafford after the misadventure in Anfield to meet the Yellow Submarines (as they are called) with several points to prove. It’s a strange thing — having to prove points that is — when we are the defending English and European champions.
But let that not mask the fact that whilst we still are a very good side, there are still quite a few concerns that need to be addressed.
But we may not yet have to face that today, what with Berbatov ‘unlikely to play’. This development is in itself rather curious because I recall the Mail publishing training pictures from yesterday where Berba was present.
We also had Manucho in training as well as some boy that goes by the name Cristiano Ronaldo. Fergie said that the United fans will warm up to that boy. I don’t know honestly if everyone will warm up to him, but considering the situation we’re in, it is sort of ironic to see that most United fans could shed a sigh of relief at his return ahead of Chelsea because of the way we got off the blocks this season.
Make no mistake, Ronaldo’s return is very significant. I just hope the boy doesn’t succumb to impatience in rushing his comeback and thus subject his ankle to a longer term injury.
In team news, Scholes is suspended for his volleyball antics against Zenit. Anderson, Hargreaves, Possebon and Fletcher remain our midfield options. I can’t really be sure of Hargreaves’ fitness — so we’ll have to wait and see.
If Berba doesn’t play then our tactics should be straightforward. We’ll play a flat 4-4-2 with Tevez and Rooney playing upfront. SAF could play Giggs on the left (because he loves Giggs) and Nani on the right. Ronaldo could always come off the bench if Giggs doesn’t impress. Personally, I’d take a fit Park over Giggs.
In midfield I would play Anderson and Hargreaves (if he’s fit). If Evra’s absent, then O’Shea would play there with Fergie surely going for experience by playing Brown and Rio in the centre. The right back would be a big question mark. I don’t think Fergie rates Neville that high anymore. It’s sad that his United career is taking such a path, but such is the game and if he’s not up to it, then even Fergie’s loyalty to his old charges won’t help him.
EDIT: Still hungover from the Liverpool defeat, I somehow thought Vidic would be absent from today. He’s not, and I suppose we’ll play a back four of O’Shea, Rio, Vidic and Brown.
About the opposition, Rossi is ruled out which is a shame because I was looking forward to seeing him play against us. Other than that, familiar foe Bobby Pires is back for them. They cannot be underestimated because they play very well as a unit. Rooney was red carded in an encounter in the ill fated 05/06 season and it would be some thing he’d want to set right.
Right, on to my predictions for the day: United to win 2-0.
Come on you reds!!!
Related items from Red Rants:
- Porto it is then…
- Man Utd v Stoke: Preview
- Man Utd v Everton: Preview
- Man Utd v Spurs match thread
- Man Utd 0-0 Villarreal: Ronaldo Returns
Tags: Game Preview · UEFA Champions' League
September 17th, 2008 at 17:11
RR – Vidic is eligible to play tonight, since the ban for his red card only affects English games.
However, I assume that Gary Neville is first in line for the RB slot against Chelski, so I wonder whether Fergie will rest Brown or Vida and let him have a run at right back tonight? It would seem a bit unfair on anyone to throw them cold into that sort of a pressure match. Would be quite a lift for the fans to be able to cheer him onto the pitch with the armband, so who knows…what do you reckon?
September 17th, 2008 at 17:21
@Penguin: You are right. I am still hungover with the Liverpool defeat that for no apparent reason, I happened to think Vidic is suspended today. Made an edit to the article above.
September 17th, 2008 at 17:26
Hey Could someone pls post me the link to the match..I am working late tonight so just can’t go home tonight so hopin that someone will post the link to the match today;;Any team news guys????
September 17th, 2008 at 17:26
This is the line-up I’d like to see tonight (assuming Berba & Evra are out):
EVDS
Neville – Rio – Brown – O’Shea
Nani – Hargreaves – Anderson – Giggs
Tevez – Rooney
Subs: TK, Ronaldo, Vidic, Fletcher, Manucho, Rafael, Possebon
September 17th, 2008 at 17:34
No doubt about it, Villareal are a real quality side, easily capable of causing an upset against our out of form united team. It seemed that last season; (unlike what tevez was claiming in the papers today regarding united’s ability to bounce back) , that whenever we lost a game we seemed to lose our way and then proceeded to bang out a few (often fortuitous) 1-nils to steady the ship before destroying a hapless lower level side (ie Wigan) and only then hitting form. We’ll need to play well tonight, not only to begin our defence in style but also to bolster confidence with the impending trip to stamford bridge, i only hope we can overcome chelski on their home soil, thatll easily make up for the Anfield misery
September 17th, 2008 at 17:38
@elsammio99: I agree – in isolation, a draw against Villareal isn’t an awful result in the context of qualifying from the group, but we really need a big performance to pick us up and get us going again for the Stamford Bridge game.
How sweet would it be to end that ridiculous home record of theirs……..
September 17th, 2008 at 17:43
By the way Redranter i just wanted to get yours and anyone else’s opinions on the whole AIG going under business. Theyre a huge bank but the whole economic recession is hitting them hard so the odds of them surviving are not too great. I have a friend who worked for them until recently who might just have been facing redundancy had he worked a while longer. The reason i bring this up of course is because theyre our kit sponsors and no ones wants any more horrid non matching shirt patches (as seen at West Ham last weekend
) popping up in the premierleague, least not on a united shirt! If they are to go down itd be hard to imagine who wed sign up to replace them? Any ideas, everyone knows you ought to design around the sponsor, hence the cartoonish vodaphone era shirts, i dont think i could stomach a return to that style of kit 
September 17th, 2008 at 17:57
2-0! Berbatov and Ronney to score!
Bring on the submarines!
Oh and i think that Berbatov will play because Fergie knows how important our start to the UCL campaign is!
September 17th, 2008 at 18:04
Mu to win 4-0…Manucho to score hatrick….Viva la Manucho
September 17th, 2008 at 18:08
as much as i love anderson i hope he does not play today, the kid needs a break, i men really needs one, he has not stopped playing football for the past year or so
on the match united need to get back on track, how they will manage that, simple play the united way, it will be good to be back home since the last 3 games were all away with one in Europe if berbs is playing only rooney or tevez should play not both, as i fear the same might happen again
LETS GO UNITED
September 17th, 2008 at 18:11
Agree with RedRanter, would much rather see Park on the wings instead of Giggs for this match. I thought Park looked alright against Zenit, so lets get him out there. But I doubt it will happen.
I just want to see a reaction from the lads. I want them to be pissed off. I want every 50/50 and 40/60 challenge to be ours. Is that too much to ask?
September 17th, 2008 at 18:31
Does anyone know if the Turk Nihat is playing for Villareal… I hope he is still injured, so that we don’t have to face him.
Anyway, I’ll miss the match because of classes, but I have someone watching it for me at home… It’s rare enough that it’s on TV over here and now I’m missing it! AAARGH!
I’ll be back here soon to read the good news!
September 17th, 2008 at 18:33
If berba or evra are even 90% fit, they won’t be played because for the game at the Bridge, we have to be at our best. Just as our winning streak against Liverpool couldnt go on forever, the Bridge will definitely crumble………on SUNDAY the 21st of September!
September 17th, 2008 at 18:38
@elsammio99: AIG won’t go down, because the American government is supporting them with 46 billion of its own money. That was announced late last night, so we should be okay. If not, we will not have any problems getting other sponsors.
September 17th, 2008 at 18:48
I dont know about this one. Ive had a terrible day, but so it was when we beat Arse 4-0 last season too. Maybe a good omen?
Well, I think Villareal are overrated. I may regret saying this, but they remind me of Arsenal since 2005. They cant score simple goals, always trying to do things the hard way, they clearly dont know how to cross the ball, their back four is unstable and their midfield contains a world class player and an unknown kid. But, we will see tonight. I hope Ronaldo comes on at half time. Even if we lead 3-0 at half time I want to see him come on to get some match practice before the Chelski game. I think Berba and Evra wont play because of injuries, cause thats what Ive heard, so my team prediction will be:
VDS
Brown Rio Vidic Oshea
Nani Fletcher/Hargreaves Anderson Giggs
Rooney Tevez
score prdiction: I wanna say 4-0 cause I have a feeling that we will get to see the real United tonight. They havent scored more than one goal in a game since Petersbrough, so I am afraid to guess that. But still I will go for 4-0 if United score in the first half, if not…. well 1-0 or a draw then.
September 17th, 2008 at 18:48
Ok – see you all laterz, off now to the game, chanting, shouting, and taking the piss out of our midfield if they don’t feckin perform again.
Come on you DEVILS, I wanna see some devilment, otherwise I will be coming home both pissed and miffed
.
September 17th, 2008 at 19:01
Team News:
GK: VDS
RB: Neville
CB: Ferdinand
CB: Evans
LB: Evra
RM: Nani
CM: Fletcher
CM: Hargreaves
LM: Park
ST: Rooney
ST: Tevez
Subs: Foster, Brown, O’Shea, Vidic, Giggs, Ronaldo, Anderson
September 17th, 2008 at 19:01
Lineup:
VDS
Neville
Rio
Evans
Evra
Hargo
Fletch
Nani
Park
Rooney
Tevez
September 17th, 2008 at 19:02
RR,Craig : Could anyone pls post the link to the match…..????/?
September 17th, 2008 at 19:02
I cant really see united losing tonight. We should have enough to beat them even without carrick/scholes creating from the middle. This is abit off the topic,but the one concern i do have for us atm is chelsea. After watching them last night (i was amazed i diddnt get bored) we are in for quite a suprise at the bridge. They passed the way we did at the best of times last season,and they were all tacticly astute. I couldnt help but wonder if united could play in a similar style to chelsea. They had Anelka upfront heading the attack,but also dropping back at times creating space (we have berbatov who can do that) then they had malouda on the left,very much a direct winger who cuts inside with the ball (we have CR7/nani who can do that) they had joe cole on the right who is a tenacious diminutive attaker with quick feet and likes to drift into the middle at times (sounds like tevez to me) and they had lampard linking the midfield and attack beautifuly,as well as getting in on the goal scoring (rooney could easly play this role. He has a great work ethic,fantastic vision,likes to drop deep to fetch the ball, and can hit them from distance). We also have the likes of scholes and carrick who can create and pass like deco,with hargo, andy and fletcher providing the tenacity in the middle that essien/mikel provide…I would agree with some who may feel that we need someone on the bench to change the game if need be.We could do that at places like the Nou Camp, San Siro or Stamford Bridge, but at home and against smaller teams we should play this fluid attacking system, or atleast give it a chance.We would stile have andy nani park and manucho in reserve if needed. I think had CQ still been around,we might have been more inclined to experiment with this more tacticly involved system, but SAF isnt as tacticly astute as his former assistant and prefers his tried and trusted 4-4-2,which MIGHT come back to hurt us in the latter stages of the ucl against the likes of mourinho and benitez where tactical awareness is important. Lets hope fergie has picked up a trick or two from CQ.lol
September 17th, 2008 at 19:07
Good team, too bad Anderson doesnt start though. I still think we can win 4-0 if we get that early goal.
COME ON YOU REDS!!!
September 17th, 2008 at 19:17
No Berba and no Manucho…ulp. Hope they’re not badly hurt!
Will be good to see how Tevez and Rooney hook up again, feels like it’s been ages. Please no long balls!
September 17th, 2008 at 19:20
Evans and neville ahead of Brown and O’shea??
September 17th, 2008 at 19:22
@Jonboi: My guess is that SAF wants to test Evans and Neville before the Chelsea game to see who is in best shape and then pick the back line based on that:
i.e. Neville, Ferdinand, Brown, Evra or
Brown, Ferdinand, Evans, Evra
September 17th, 2008 at 19:41
Good to see Evans get a run out, hope his gamble of not having any strikers on the bench pays off, its down to the Roovez! Lets see how this midfield gets on, should still have enough in the tank to win this, United!
September 17th, 2008 at 19:45
Ok so I just listened to Ronnie YSB Whelan say that our midfield is rubbish. Giles agrees that because we don’t have scholes we have nobody who can set up a goal (I’ve gathered from previous analysis that the panel hate Nani) I think O’Shea or Brown should have played for Evans.
@JB: you were almost beaten to the team news there
September 17th, 2008 at 19:47
They cheered Ronaldo’s name when the it was announced in the start!
September 17th, 2008 at 19:55
looks like no bad blood, i’m singing viva ronaldo for the time being, i miss the lad even after all he’s done, bloody slave
September 17th, 2008 at 19:57
park’s passes have been a bit off so far, a bit of rust perhaps….
September 17th, 2008 at 19:59
not a bad start, still a load of sloppy passing though…
September 17th, 2008 at 20:12
good sequence of passes, but can we make a cross that will at least beat the first man
September 17th, 2008 at 20:17
Celtic missed a penalty
September 17th, 2008 at 20:22
how many crosses have we made that have failed to beat the first man, and that was a dirty lunge
bloody hell just one touch that would have gone in
nani should model his game around beckham not ronaldo, he does have a sweet cross shame the rest of the team can’t beat the first man
September 17th, 2008 at 20:23
Fuck I hate these teams. The gall of a latin american player to accuse Evra of diving. Prats, the dirty fucks.
And what does United have to do to have a penalty awarded in our favor?? Does one of our players actually need to get murdered in the box? Maybe a broken leg?
September 17th, 2008 at 20:25
And I have always, ALWAYS, hated that fuck face Pires. He looks like a homosexual musketeer.
September 17th, 2008 at 20:28
lmao drew vader agree with the pires comment, and the penalty one too, its a shame this ref has no idea what a foul is
September 17th, 2008 at 20:28
Gary Neville doesn’t look that dangerous with his crosses. Seriously. Yawn. Bring on Ronaldo.
September 17th, 2008 at 20:34
honestly this team lacks a certain sting and look really lethargic, it’s horrible to watch them at the moment, the only brightside of the half has to be nani, he’s made a few decent crosses had the odd shot which had some real venom on it, apart from that, the whole half has been poor, to top it all of we should have had 2 penalties already
September 17th, 2008 at 20:40
Should bring on Brown for Neville in the second half. Evra and Park have been awesome tonight. The rest have been ok so far, Nani looking better too. But we have to get a goal to bring this game alive else it might be the 3rd goalless draw against Villareal in a row.
September 17th, 2008 at 20:43
PArk is outstanding ……
September 17th, 2008 at 20:44
I disagree i feel our play has been very good…its our best performance by far this season…park looks very very good…so does nani…just needs a finish
September 17th, 2008 at 20:47
ref is crap!!! 2 penalties!!!
September 17th, 2008 at 20:48
Much better performance this 1st half compared to the one against the dippers, but that was easy.
Nani and Park are having good games. We really lacked some height in attack what with Nani’s crosses…. Also, anyone else notice that Tevez, for all his other qualities is awful in his choice of passing? Not the first time i noticed that…
September 17th, 2008 at 20:55
@antsBoy: Nevs has played quite well IMO
September 17th, 2008 at 21:00
wow parks been shit
September 17th, 2008 at 21:04
park’s first touch is reminiscent of adebayors pretty poor
September 17th, 2008 at 21:04
ronaldo is getting ready to come on
September 17th, 2008 at 21:06
fuck me, that was unbelievable we are so lucky not to be 1-0 down
September 17th, 2008 at 21:06
Holy shit, I nearly had a heart attack! Why does our team switch off right before subs come on?
September 17th, 2008 at 21:11
and that is what we have been missing viva ronaldo
September 17th, 2008 at 21:16
HOW ARE WE NOT INFRONT???
September 17th, 2008 at 21:18
ladies and gentlemen boo all you want, but we are a one man-ish team, this one man makes this team have that va va vooom and they become complete
September 17th, 2008 at 21:24
@Mr.Muhozi: exactly
September 17th, 2008 at 21:25
the referee in the Celtic match is a shambles. He sent off the wrong player after Samaras was tackled while clean through
September 17th, 2008 at 21:27
WTF Evans!
September 17th, 2008 at 21:30
what a fuckin sitter. HE looks pish, weak soft looking lad.
Fuckin hate watchin rooney whip in shit crosses to nobody….its fukin useless
September 17th, 2008 at 21:36
giggs i love you but, i think it’s time you should retire, do what ole did and become a coach, i have not seen much from you to justify why you are still playing
September 17th, 2008 at 21:39
a great performance in reality but just not the result to go with it
September 17th, 2008 at 21:40
game over and the streak is over, i can’t be arsed to do a match report, but we are a one man team, i’m looking forward to sunday, let’s hope we score goals then, not wes brown own goals
September 17th, 2008 at 21:44
a girl can kick the ball better than Anderson…
Ronaldo brings some kinda magic into the team… We created more chances when he came on…
September 17th, 2008 at 21:51
@Mr.Muhozi: To be honest, Ronaldo didn’t do much when he came on, but it lifted our whole team. It’s almost as if everyone believes they need him to win now. Rooney esp came alive in the last 25min…
September 17th, 2008 at 21:52
We are a one man team. Ronaldo was the only reason United gave Villareal problems in the second half. Neville’s crossing is as good as Vandersar’s long kicks – atrocious. He lacked the confidence to execute what used to be his most potent attacking contribution. Nani’s crossing was equally bollocks. His corners and freekick were all off target. Giggs tends to seem lost in the game. He dribbles into no man’s land, and lags when it comes to making the crucial pass or touch. He still has a bit of pace left in him, but not the agility Ronaldo has when it comes to unlocking defenses.
The only takeaway from this is that Ronaldo is back – and that means fluidity once again. It’s his short bursts of energy in his runs that draws the defense to him and opens up the play. He doesn’t need to dribble all the way to the goal, but his runs creates space so even he can pass defense-splitting balls (e.g. to Rooney, who set up Tevez, only for the ball to be hacked off the line). We need Ronaldo’s fit the entire season, just like last, if we are to mount a challenge on any front. He is our catalyst. He’s the man to get us going, and for me, he didn’t disappoint today; not at all.
September 17th, 2008 at 21:54
Hmmm, bit of a non event that however I would still would expect to get out of the group fairly easily. From a positive point of view the team looked to have a lot better shape and structure today and of course Ronaldo is back. Probably doesn’t even merit proper ratings so abridged ratings with smilies today.
VDS:
Nothing to rate.
Neville:
Crap crosses to midgets = no goals!
We could probably just copy his rating across every week
Not much to judge but happy enough to put him in at the weekend.
Good attacking threat down the left.
Ferdinand:
Evans:
Evra:
Park:
Give the man a penalty!!
One of his better games, normally does not boss games like these but did very well today.
Didn’t really notice he was there (no bad thing for a DM in this type of game to be fair).
Inconsisent.
Fletcher
Hargreaves:
Nani:
Tevez:
Would have used a throwing up smiley if there was one. Poor.
Ok, helped alot when Ronaldo was on the pitch to link up with.
Rooney:
Subs:
Some inconsistent and wayward passing at times.
Meh, same level as the man he replaced.
Thank god he’s back!
Anderson:
Giggs:
Ronaldo:
September 17th, 2008 at 21:57
I have no words for Tevez…..I mean wtf is this??????
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
touch and re-touch re-touch re-touch re-touch and then shoot………WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS?????? Thank gid we bought Berbatov.
Giggs , go to your home play the old editions of Pro Evolution Soccer so as to remember what you were like some time ago…..Please mate……….Some time ago you could lead Wales to wins…..Now you cant’even cross the ball if you re marked
Rooney you re the best my man…..Loved it when the stadium chanted his name
Ronaldo , I’m sorry to say this (cause u re a little cunt) but we need you to win…….even if it is only psychological factor ….we need you….
September 17th, 2008 at 21:58
@realred: @OllieY:
Have you guys been watching the same gane as I’ve been watching?
Park’s been good, not great, but certainly not bad. In fact he definitely brings more to our creative play than Anderson, or even Fletcher. The way he times his attacking runs also means that he’s always lokiely to get fouled by his immediate opponents and think about what that means when we’ve agot a free kick in a good position with Hargo or Ronaldo the almighty slave in the team…
As for Evans, I’ve been pleasantly surprised by his performance!
OK he may not have shown much defensively today (or correct me if some of you have, bad tv reception), but he looks comfortable on the ball, perhaps more than Brown, and certainly looks a threat coming forward, a la Vidic! THe fact that he did not score on these two occasions (one on a corner) does not diminish the fact that he has good positioning going forward, something which Rio the best defender in the world is actually quite poor in.
On the whole an encouraging performance despite the disappointing result
Best player: Nani (or Evra)
Worst player: Hard to tell, its a toss between Fletcher and Rooney, both were a bit underwhelming imho.
September 17th, 2008 at 22:12
@Nico QB: Whoa, maybe you had bad reception…worst player either Fletcher or Rooney? No way mate! In fact, there wasn’t any standout worst player..just a couple of average performances. However, Tevez was indeed SUPER FRUSTRATING…he does tend to get the ball under his feet many at times, take one touch too many, and then a wrong option pass…tell the guy to calm down a bit!
September 17th, 2008 at 22:13
Guys remember that we played the runners up of the Primera Liga today, Considering our recent poor form a nil nil draw could be expected, but I take heart from the decent performance. Sure Ronaldo makes all the difference, but I thought that we could have scored without him.
Question: Should Tevez be benched against Chelsea?
September 17th, 2008 at 22:23
@Nico QB: That would depend on if Berbatov is fit for Sunday. If he isn’t then there isn’t really much of a choice to be made. And I’m not convinced Ronaldo is ready for more than 45 minutes yet.
September 17th, 2008 at 22:24
Rooney impressed me a lot. He was creating chances and was involved in many of our best moves. He will go up another level once Ronaldo is back on full song. Really for me Rooney is best when he has someone predatory to work with. Ronaldo fits the bill but im interested how he will combine with Berbatov. I think that game was made for Berbatov
Ronaldo oh my god I got excited every time he touched the ball. But he is still rusty. The tricks aren’t all coming off, her overran a few dribbles, he would have scored those half chances and we’d have won.
Anderson is out of his depth in Europe. Poor passes, can’t shoot, too impatient.
This season Fletcher >> Anderson.
Nani on the other hand is on song. Lots of courage, sweet crosses, has the confidence to toy with defenders and makes space for himself.
September 17th, 2008 at 22:28
@antsBoy: OK perhaps I was a bit harsh on Roo and Fletch.
Heh, its pouring rain here in Mauritius and that causes satellite TV to screw transmission! 
My view about Rooney is that he was once again running around, showing nice touches, but not staying put as SS which we all know is what he should be doing. Tevez really frustrates the opposition too and I think he, more than Rooney, should be sacrificed as attacking midfield when needed. Because clearly when it comes to making the last pass (that which can end up being an assist) Rooney is miles ahead of Tevez.
September 17th, 2008 at 22:31
@Nico QB: I didn’t think Rooney pulling wide was too big an issue today because we were piling good numbers of players into the box to compensate.
September 17th, 2008 at 22:36
@Nico QB: Fuckin abysmal. I was sat down with most of the crowd for long periods, nothing to shout about at all. My mates and I left before Ronnie came on, because we wanted to get a shotgun and feckin shoot Rooney, perhaps a few pellets up his arse might have got some decent response out of him. I have never left United early, but I was just feckin sickened. Rooney should be benched against Chelsea, because he has really played garbage for United for some time now. I am sorry Rooney fans, but it’s a feckin fact. We had wide players today, so why wasn’t Rooney in the striker position he should have been in?. My girlfriend thinks its her birthday, I returned home early, and didn’t call in the pub on the way. I was depressed though
. Well couple of glasses of wine, and early night, I should feel more friendly in the morning 
.
By the way Jaywire, your oft quote Viva Roovez – no feckin way Bro on tonights showing.
September 17th, 2008 at 22:39
Frustrating, but much better than we’ve seen before. Ronave made a serious impact, could have come in sooner. We had endevour but lacked the sharpness infront of a very packed defence. I expect this to come though, missed Berba tonight i thought. I hope he’s fit for the rent boys. Make no mistake, this is our hardest game of the season. Great reception from the crowd for Ronaldo, his appearance lifted the team. He is our catalyst and he added impetus and drive to our attack.
We definitely could have done with 3 pts but on the whole, after a draw at celtic park, we’re alright. Its a slow start, but not looking too bad. I didn’t understand why we had no striker on the bench tonight! What the fuck? Plan b was Ronaldo, who isn’t match fit. What about Manucho? Surely some of those crosses which made it, would have been better served with someone tall in the box on the end of them! Even O’Shea!!
September 17th, 2008 at 22:42
@colver: Colver Bro, were you at the game perchance, because Rooney was so not what you described. Everyone was pissed off with him where we were sitting. But Tev too caused a lot of frustration tonight. Evans – bloody good, but then he is one of the fighting Irish
.
September 17th, 2008 at 22:45
@JB: Yep I guess you’re right.
On the one hand I see Rooney as more essential to our team play despite him being poor in front of goal, on the other Tevez brings a physical harassment which I’m looking forward to piss the hell out of EBJT.
Oh, the sweetness of selection dilemmas!
September 17th, 2008 at 22:47
@ Criag Mc : But it wasnt as bad as you described. AS JB said above, there were many people in the box anyways.
And Rooney does not have to nail himself onto the six-yard box to please you, he and Tevez usually take turns to be the final striker. So your depression is indeed depressing
September 17th, 2008 at 23:01
@Craig Mc:
If you had stayed for the last half hour and given the boys some encouragement you would have seen some better attacking football to get you on your feet and im sure you would have left much more optomistic than you have! See if you can watch the 30mins somewhere then make your better judgements. Only player I thought was poor tonight was Neville. Best player on the pitch? I’d prob say Nani even though he drifted in and out the game, I though he kept the ball better, was more direct and put some dangerous balls over. Would love to see some consistency from him this season and I think Berbs will thrieve on his delivery.
September 17th, 2008 at 23:03
@rg: Well thank you professor. I take it you were at the match then Bro?. There may have been many people in the box mate, all but the people who should have been in there. Rooney should be in or around the box, he’s a feckin striker supposedly, not a defender or winger.
Perhaps things improved in the last 25 minutes after we left rg, when Ronnie the maestro came on. We were listening to Radio on the way home, and all the commentators were continually saying that Rooney needs to decide what kind of a player he really is. If he is a striker, he should be round and about the 18 yard line to be effective, but is he wants to work himself into a frazzel running here there and feckin everywhere box to box, then he needs to become a midfielder and United replace him with another striker. Both Paul Parker and Alex Stepney said on MUTV after match debate, that Rooney needs to be benched for a few games, until he comes into form again. So it is not just me being biased is it rg?. The professionals agreed Rooney is not doing it at the moment for UNited. Any by the way, you seldom here any of the pro’s on MUTV say a player should be benched, but they felt so and said so after tonight. They recognise he has not been how he can be for a while. By the way rg, its amazing what a few glasses of wine and a few cuddles of sympathy from the GF can do to cure the depression
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September 17th, 2008 at 23:04
@JB: @Craig Mc: @phoenix red: HA! Your differing views of Rooney just sums up my half frustration about him. Somehow I cannot picture Tevez as establishing himself as a long term (more than 4 years) at Old Trafford as his playing, all be it very good, was just him doing his stuff on his own.
Rooney on the other hand is vital to our game, yet somehow he manages to disappoint by being played out of position. Wonder if the next manager will be able to sort things out his game to make him fulfill his formidable potential.
And Phoenix Red, definitely agree with you, the game was just begging for Manucho to be introduced. And also I think its now absolutely clear why Possebon should be ahead of Anderson, for the momeent at least.
Oh, and finally where’s Andrei when we need him?
In 20 min his claim of Rooney – better than Ronaldo was put in recipient filled with liquid concrete, allowed to solidified (with the occasional small whiny little “Roonemmphh bttpphh than phhnal…….”) and dumped down the depths of some random river … 
September 17th, 2008 at 23:06
Has the Grog taken some more time off?
September 17th, 2008 at 23:12
@Craig Mc: Just one point on that, Paul Parker is a know nothing, rent a quote, fuckwit………. for want of a nicer description
As for the bit about Rooney being a defender, he may have pulled out wide on occassion but he wasn’t haring about in the full back positions today.
September 17th, 2008 at 23:21
@Ryan: Mate, were you at the game. I have never left a match EVER before the end, but all the lads were so feckin frustrated, and I was riding with them in the one auto, so had to go when they did. I was happy to go anyway Ryan, because it was just another of a series of NOTHINGNESS games. Our staying and cheering wouldn’t have made any difference to the result mate. Fergie should FINE Rooney and Tev £1000 quid every time they miss a sitter, or shoot off target when they have a free shot on goal. Either they would finish the season penniless, or we would AT FECKIN LONG LAST see the ball in the back of the net more
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September 17th, 2008 at 23:23
@JB:
I think with Rooney, if we had a central striker i.e, Ruud, Saha, now Berbs in a central striker position then you dont mind him pulling wide, dropping deep as much but when he plays with Tevez(who also disapears wide and deep) it leaves no striker in the box which is when we all think – why the hell is he out wide when he should be in there! With Berbs I dont think it will be as frustrating if either Tevez or Rooney disapear wide because he will stay central and push on the last defender and always be a target for us in the box. Did that make any sense?!
September 17th, 2008 at 23:23
@JB: It wasn’t just Paul though, it was Alex Stepney and the radio commentators too. As for not playing in defence, JB he was in Nevilles position 2 or 3 times
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September 17th, 2008 at 23:32
@Craig Mc: Hahaha I read my coment back and wondered if you would take it as a dig! No offense meant as I know from reading on here that you obviously spend alot of money following united and going to most of the games. But with Ronaldo due to come on surely you would have wanted to see what kind of effect he was gonna have on the game?
4 competative games in and Fletcher is still top goalscorer
September 17th, 2008 at 23:34
@Ryan: It makes sense and I do agree to a point. But when we are playing well, players are fluidly interchanging positions and we are scoring plenty of goals then everybody gushes over the flexibility of the team and ‘Total Football’ etc. Yet when we are playing badly some of the lads get lambasted for moving away from the designated positions. We can’t have it both ways.
@Craig Mc: If the play develops so that Rooney is the only one available to fill/support at right back would you rather he stood watching and scratching instead? The issue is those daft 60/70 yard runs he makes after players when he looses the ball and don’t recall any of them tonight.
September 17th, 2008 at 23:41
@JB: Yea I think with Neville’s lack of pace now he had to cover him a few times!
The flexibility and movement of the side works best when Ronaldo joins those 2(the holy trinity!). That was obvious to see when he came on. I think with Ronaldo now back and Berbs only going to get better these negative discussions will be a thing of the past…..
September 17th, 2008 at 23:44
@Ryan: Well if we can get out of SB with a draw then the fixture list starts to look a bit nicer for a while so hopefully we can build up a bit of momentumn then.
As an aside what back line would people go for on Sunday?
Brown, Ferdinand, Evans, Evra
or
Neville, Ferdinand, Brown, Evra
September 17th, 2008 at 23:46
It was awesome to see Ronaldo come on today. Because the team had begun to look sluggish and Villarreal was feeling themselves more and more. From the looks of things on TV, Ronaldo got the rousing praise and reception that he has earned to show how important he is to us.
It’s time for some of you to face it. We are simply not the same team without Ronaldo. We are sluggish, sloppy and non-threatening. With Ronaldo, we have the piece that makes our steamroller crush all in our path. The movement is better, the attack is more fluid, hell the players even look more excited when he’s on the field. He created 2 opportunities that on any other day would’ve been goals (one of which was thwarted by a great hustle play for a Villarreal defender)
The whole Rooney>Ronaldo thing was nothing but a farce and a joke anyway and if anyone believed that then I question their intelligence.
We head to Stamford Bridge, hopefully to take 3 points.
September 17th, 2008 at 23:47
JB, we had Park and Nani to fall back and support their fullbacks tonight. So Rooney had no business being out there. When he moves out there, our WIDE players (who are better than the Roon from the wings), have to then move inside to take up positions they shouldn’t take up. Are we saying that all thr ex pro’s are wrong too, because they were all saying it. Rooney should be up and around the 18 yard line, and not all over the place but where he should be. My complaint is JB, the Roon isn’t where he should be when he should be. The great game he had for England recently, was because Capello was up his arse and after him to keep his discipline. Joe Cole admitted that Capello kicked his and Wayne’s arses to stay where they should be. I give up anyway, let him do whatever, because some of you don’t seem to be too bothered about the shit he is dishing up lately.
Ryan,
, I wasn’t offended by it bro, in fact I appreciated the empathy of depression you felt with me, not that you were depressed by the game 
, but that you felt depressed I was depressed, SO FINE mate 
.
September 17th, 2008 at 23:51
@Ryan, yes i agree with that. We have two similiar types of player with tendencies to do frustratingly similiar things. When you add Ronaldo as an attacking trio, it makes more sense. But for me Rooney > Teves(it was a toss up tonight!) ,Rooney can be very frustrating when he’s out of position, but has better vision than Teves. Add Berba into the mix, and we shouldn’t have this problem. Rooneys’ game needs someone to feed off.
Team for Chelski
VDS
Brown, Rio, Evans, Evra
Ronaldo,Hargo,Scholes,Nani
Rooney
Berbatov
September 17th, 2008 at 23:52
JB. I just read back thru my last post, and I think the wine is hitting the ole head now
. The he isnt where he should be, when he should be where he isn’t. I know it sounded like double dutch on read back, so if you can’t understand it, I fully understand Bro 
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September 17th, 2008 at 23:54
@JB:
I wouldnt go with either i’d choose -
Hargreaves Brown Rio Evra
However I think with Carrick out Hargreaves will be asked to do a job on Deco/Lampard in the middle of the pitch so if I had to choose i’d prob play Neville just because of his experience.
September 17th, 2008 at 23:55
@Craig Mc: What I’m saying is that when that works everyone goes on about how the fluid formation confuses the opposition, makes us hard to work etc. When it doesn’t it is Rooney’s fault, the big oaf. Also worth noting that his excellent game for England had him in his preferred position, not shunted about to accomodate Berbatov and Tevez.
Incidentally the Telegraphs positional data had him virtually dead centre (and most advanced), with a preference for linking up with the left hand side of the attack.
September 17th, 2008 at 23:57
@Ryan: I agree, I dont think we can afford to have Hargreaves back there given Carrick’s absence. I also think that Fletcher can consider himself unlucky if he is dropped (which he probably will be) for Sunday.
September 17th, 2008 at 23:58
@Craig Mc: Thats ok, I think I got the jist of it
Hmmm, time for a Becks I think 
September 18th, 2008 at 0:03
@JB: I agree with that JB, and that’s why if you remember I refused to criticise him after the L’Pool game or games where Fergie has played him on right or left side of midfield. We criticised him tonight, because he was supposed to be in his preferred position, but little played there. Whatever the Telegraph says bro, we were there, we SAW IT
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September 18th, 2008 at 0:05
@JB:
I think you could see Fergie match Chelsea and go for a midfield 3 of Hargreave Fletcher and Scholes with a front 3 of Ronaldo, Berbatov and Rooney. Of course it all depends on Ronaldo’s and Berbs fitness….
Just thinking about it I wouldnt be suprised if Giggs is chucked in the mix somewhere……
I’ve not even mentioned Tevez, Nani, Park or Anderson….. shit we have a strong squad when all fit and available…..
September 18th, 2008 at 0:05
@Craig Mc: I have to disagree, his preferred position is where Tevez was tonight.
September 18th, 2008 at 0:09
@Ryan: Mate if Giggs is in before Nani, then Fergie deserves for us to lose at Chelski. O heck, I’m being summoned
, gotta get to bed. Night Ryan, JB, and all. Talk again soon 
.
September 18th, 2008 at 0:25
I hear you Craig, but i firmly BELIEVE that things are gonna get better including Rooney
September 18th, 2008 at 0:29
Good game, massive improvement over the Liverpool game, it was just sad that i think we the way we played today, Berbatov would have made such a massive difference today cus the midfield for once in the games we’ve played this season was actually flowing and It’d have worked better with him in the team. Anyone know if he’ll be fit for Sunday?
September 18th, 2008 at 0:59
Good game today… created chances, which is important. Pre-ronaldo, we played decent, passed the ball about well, but there was no spark to ignite the Roovez partnership. Ronaldo was evidently missing from the holy trinity…
As soon as he came on, it was evident Roovez was back in business, the crisp passes, flicks and opportunities started to flow, unfortunately we had no time left to take advantage. Ronaldo is the spark that gets our attack going, Rooney has missed him – an attacker with great vision and positioning – and i think Berba is of that mould too, so only good things can come off the ‘Berney’™ ® partnership…
Our midfield is still of concern.. Anderson hasn’t found his niche yet, Carrick is injured, scholes, gibson, hargo and fletch are not attack minded enough, which leaves one unsure option, the inexperienced Rodrigo. Should we try him out or is he still too inexperienced at this level?
The reason we haven’t ever noticed our lack of attacking midfeilders was because of our fluid attack, where we pretty much played 4-2-4. However, early on his season, when we had no wingers, it was evident our midfield was not up to standard.
We have gotten so used to playing two CMF’s that we even turned Ando (an AMF) into one. Scholes too. We need to rectify that asap, cause whenever our fluid attack breaks down, we need to rely on our midfield for attack playmaking (something only Carrick does).
All in all, was a positive performance, we looked very lively when the trinity came to life. With Berba, Ronnie, Scholes, and Brown getting back into the 1st team this weekend, I can see a result at the bridge.
September 18th, 2008 at 1:44
I like our “Checking” line that we used tonight, including Fletch, Hargo and Park!!! Maybe they all dont have Zidane skills, but man they run themselves to fucking death and work so hard for the team at breaking up play and winning back possession! It was great to just see some effort and some heart from the lads.
Hargo looked infinitely better tonight than his cameo against Pool. Anyone else think he should be assigned to cover fat frank on sunday and to prevent that shit talking bastard from scoring any of his cheap rebound goals? And i honestly think we should assign someone to shadow Deco as well. Maybe Fletch?
I thought Park was outstanding tonight. As was Evra.
And it was great to see the whole spirit of the place lifted when a certain someone was introduced late. The players came to life and all seemed like they were saying to themselves, “right, now its time to kick some ass!” And they almost pulled it off. I think Ronny would have buried his header if little Carlos hadn’t had visions of LeBron James and jumped right in front of him.
September 18th, 2008 at 1:46
Overall….I think its safe to say our season starts now!! Lets set the league alight by winning at the Bridge, then its game on for the title. Come on lads!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
September 18th, 2008 at 2:05
@Gabriel: I prefer Roonatov
I thought Neville played ok today, but like the rest of the team there was no end product. I think his presence could be valuable to lift the team on Sunday. I think Fergie will play Evans though. I think Vidic should have played today. They were there for the taking at set pieces and he could have scored
September 18th, 2008 at 2:10
Quick observations, Giggs and Neville are done at this level. They have been great servants and top class quality but there time has come. Sadly I know he didnt play today but it is time to put scholes in that box too. I know I will get killed for this, because scholes is an untouchable but it was time last year. The problem with extending the careers of these gentlemen is that it delays the development of Nani and Anderson. I feel the inconsistency of these players is only due to the fact that they never get extended run outs. they get a string of games then nothing for a while, its kind of hard to gel with the team when your constantly in and out. As for all of you who are hard on anderson, remember that he has been played out of position his entire united career so give him a little slack for over extending himself.
Also back off of rooney, he was fine today. It s funny when I am the guy defending rooney cause I was one of the few to question him during last season (and got SLATED).
As for the greasy one… words cant describe how I felt to see him warm up on the side line. I admit that I was gutted when the Real moved looked like a foregone conclusion but I never went over board. He is the best player on the planet and I am overjoyed to see him wearing red.
finally, why didnt Vidic play?
September 18th, 2008 at 3:07
I thought this was the best game of our season, which doesn’t say much, but honestly even without Ronaldo some guys like Nani, Park, showed what they can do. When Ronaldo came back we were back to our last year style. Neville shuld be droped no doubt in my mind, Giggs only as a sub and the sam same with Scholes. I know he hasn’t played today, but I think we should let our guys Nani and Andy to take the responsibilies. Not sure what will happen at the Bridge, but if Ronaldo playes everything is possible.
September 18th, 2008 at 4:55
bit concerned about our result …ok agree that we were up against the runner up in la liga..but come on we were at home…shud have won it….sad to say this ..but giggs is past it..even as impact sub… so is nevilee…doubt whether Nani can make to top flight ….Anderson must work on his shooting…his energy in midfield helped us a lot in second half…but still we are yet to define a position for him
fletcher was good ..park lookd bit rusty adn gave away many passes…how many chances did we create ? is that only me who noticed their keeper was loosing the ball quite often…but we cudnt exploit that
September 18th, 2008 at 7:50
i think it was an excellent performance, i think every played well. i was really impressed by nani and park, but i also feel that park has lost his control. i honestly think everyone had a good game, and we didnt even miss vidic that much, like the power of youth explode i guess. if berbatov was playing, or ronaldo was on form,, you wouldnt bet against us scoring. that match was perfect for berbatov, all those inch perfect crosses nani was putting in all those through balls andy was putting in, all thoses tackles tevez putting in, for him to sweep up, it would of been a perfect match for him. I pray that berbatov will be fit for chelsea, where saf will have to make thte decision, rooney or tevez.