Nov 07
Man Utd vs Dynamo Kyiv: Preview
I will keep this post short. I really have to. It’s been a tight little day, work-wise, although that shouldn’t prevent me from watching the match today.
Anyway, let’s quickly go over the preview of today’s game and some other random bits and bobs worth pondering about.
Louis Saha is expected to be in the 16 today and hopefully in the starting XI. So either Tevez or Rooney will be rested. Also there is a good chance of Carrick starting with either Hargreaves or Anderson rested. Nani should also start today in the place of Giggs. With Neville out again, this time with a calf strain, the back four will stay pretty much the same as the one that faced Arsenal.
A 4-4-2 formation looks the most logical option. It’s only the starting XI that is worth debating about. Anyhow, a wait for a few hours would give you the answer. (Yes, I know, it was a terribly inane statement.)
Meanwhile, John O’Shea is ‘flabbergasted’ at the longevity of SAF at Old Trafford. While I think it was an outstanding achievement for someone to be at the club for so long. I would certainly not be flabbergasted. You see, the word flabbergasted gives me a mental picture of someone, with his eyes popped out, running around the room like a lunatic. I wish I could say that about Sheasy, but he is too leaden footed to be running around the room.
I may be wrong about my mental picture of the word flabbergasted, but then who cares about that word anyway. It sure sounds ghastly.
Erm… moving on to talking some sense, SAF has called for seven subs in the Premier League. Sven had called for this earlier this week and I can certainly vouch for this. The Spanish League also allows seven subs. And as a Football Manager addict, I can say for sure that having seven players on the bench can make more players happier. Although I will leave this to you to discuss about.
Andrei Shevchenko has tipped United to win the Champions’ League. It’s sad (and perversely joyful) to see a player the level of Sheva descend to such depths in Chelsea that now he has to resort to punditry. But that’s what many failed footballers do these days, don’t they?
And finally Anderson assures us that he is not a diver. To be honest, we did see some theatrics from the Brazilian. But he also seems to be made of sterner stuff than is apparent from his boyish looks. The quotes in the article make interesting reading. He seems a determined lad, especially when he says this on South Americans who failed in United, “I am Anderson, not Veron or Kleberson. This is the difference. Perhaps I have arrived with more ambition than those two did.”
Good stuff from the lad. Hope he continues to walk the talk.
Back to the game, I expect nothing less than a caning from the reds. Kyiv were poor at home last time round. This time I expect nothing less than a caning. Especially since the dippers did it yesterday.
Prediction: 6-0 to United (Although I hope it’s 9-0!)
- Dynamo Kyiv vs Manchester United: Preview
- United Stroll Past Kyiv; They Also Hit Four Goals
- Vidic Returns For Kiev | SAF’s Plan Sounds A Little Dodgy
- Man Utd v Everton: Preview
- History Beckons As United Discover Their Group
Tags: Daily Roundup · Game Preview
November 7th, 2007 at 12:20
i think with blackburn coming this weekend,,saf will likely rest keys players knowing that the game with kievis already wrapped up. so nani will come in for gigz,carrick for anderson and saha for tevez..
but also after how scousers perfomed yesterday fergy will want to pull 1 himself for bragging rights so its a bit tricky.
November 7th, 2007 at 12:35
If it is gonna be Hargo-Carrick in midfield, Mmmm.., the game would be quite boring (Remember the game against ManCity and Spurs…). I’d like to see Pique to play some part in the game.
November 7th, 2007 at 12:44
I don’t care what the score is as long as we get the 3pts in the bag. So the ‘Pool put 8 past an inept Besiktas, our bragging rights will come if we win tonight and maintain our 100% group record with qualification wrapped up with 2 games to spare. Bet the Scousers would swap that 8-0 any day to be in our situation.
November 7th, 2007 at 12:53
c’mon thats slightly disrespectful to kiev isnt it? i reckon a bog standard 2-0 or 3-0 is more likely…
November 7th, 2007 at 12:57
2 holding midfielders in the same game,,you got a point there samphraim..but lets not forget what carrick did to demolish as roma last season,,cant wait for kick off. also we should expect to see fletcher play a role especially after his contribution in the last game
November 7th, 2007 at 13:00
——————-VDS—————–
PIQUE——RIO—VIDIC—-EVRA
—–FLETCHER—-CARRICK—-
–RONALDO–ROONEY—–NANI
——————-SAHA—————
Subs
Kusiack
Brown
Evans
Anderson
Hargreaves
O’Shea
Tevez
November 7th, 2007 at 13:32
About Anderson… I don’t see him as a diver. The yellow card Fabregas received last weekend was absolutely deserved. He slid in studs first and hit Anderson… no question about it. People should talk about Fabregas’ tendency to make some really bad challenges in stead. Anderson did roll around on the surface following the tackle, but he was clearly hit, and if his instant reaction is to fall on the ground then that’s what he does… he might actually have been in pain.
Tonight I think SAF will rest a few players, but I don’t think he’ll be careless. If we qualify tonight, he can rest players like crazy in the following 2 group matches in stead, which will be of much more value.
Expect Carrick to start, and also Saha and Nani, but I don’t think, SAF will rest more than that. Hargreaves still needs match practice, and neither Ronaldo nor Rooney have played too many matches at this stage. Tevez should be rested, since he’s been involved in almost every match so far this season. This is one of the games, he’ll surely rest Giggs, since he needs him this sunday, and he can afford to play Nani in stead, who’s been in excellent form.
VDS, Brown, Rio, Vidic, Evra, Ronaldo, Hargreaves, Carrick, Nani, Saha and Rooney.
4-0 win with Rooney scoring 2 and Ronaldo and Nani each getting 1. It might be bigger, because I don’t think Kiev have any confidence and self-belief atm. They’ll come looking to keep a clean sheet for as long as possible, but once we score, they’ll fall apart (like Besiktas did last night).
November 7th, 2007 at 13:45
I think we will see Fletcher, Carick, Pique and Saha get a run out tonight. VDS, Pique, Rio, Vidic, Evra, Carrick, Fletcher, Ronaldo, Nani, Rooney, Saha. I’d think Fergie would be tempted to save Hargreaves for Sunday especially with his recent injury problems. I’m predicting a 4-0 Victory with Saha, Rooney, Ronaldo and Nani all getting on the scoresheet.
November 7th, 2007 at 13:50
carrick and hargeraves wont be boring in my view
with hargo in there - carrick will be able to get forward a bit more and pick out those intelligent passes we know he can make
more than that - with a def midfielder there (like when fletcher was playing with him in the roma game) he can really express himself attacking wise - and he is actually a very sweet striker of the football
November 7th, 2007 at 13:59
Only change one or two cogs in a machine that works well, win the match , then rest the players in the remaining matches.
November 7th, 2007 at 14:42
i’d fancy nani to start alongside tevez,rooney,anderson and hargreaves.a perfect gift for fergie wudnt be the win..it’d be a new european record.so,am predicting 10-0.and am serious!!!go United!!
November 7th, 2007 at 15:05
Carrick and Hargreaves won’t be boring, but I would LOVE to see Anderson playing again. (Can’t seem to get enough of this lad
)
November 7th, 2007 at 17:32
I think it will be great to see Saha back in the team because I have no doubt he will be a key player for us in the Premiership and Champions League this season.
It would be even better to see him score a goal and get straight back into form after his injury break ahead of the busy Christmas Period.
November 7th, 2007 at 18:03
I believe we will see a lot of the bench simply put because even they are far superior to anything Kiev puts on the field. Rest some big names like Ronaldo, Giggs, Rio, and even EVDS. Rooney should play because we need his tenacity out there. I expect a demolition and anything short of that will be disappointing. Kiev will put eleven men in th box and defend for their lives. There should not even be concern over them mounting a threat. They know they are pretenders. Their only goal tonight is to prevent humiliation. Final score, 4-0. I’d like to say 8-0 like Liverpool but I think Kiev will put up a better defensive fight than Besiktas because they won’t even try to mount an attack. Really, it shouldn’t be pretty and anything less than 3 goals by our side should be looked at as an embarrassment.
November 7th, 2007 at 18:16
Embarrassment?! Thats a bit much dont u think?
November 7th, 2007 at 18:30
united will take the day by winning 6-0.if my roony, nani,or ronando see the net first them we will get at least 8 goals.
November 7th, 2007 at 18:38
I know what you’re saying, but I think it’s more about qualifying for the next round so players can be rested in the final two games.
I’d like Saha to start so he has chance to prove a point, but have a feeling Rooney and Tevez will. Kiev won’t be able to handle any of these three, and they should probably bag a goal each.
November 7th, 2007 at 19:15
It would be an embarrassment if we don’t beat them badly because they are a very poor side, we are playing at home and despite trying to qualify, we need to sen a message to all our true challengers that we are a real force and that we don’t take nights off in the CL.
November 7th, 2007 at 19:30
I was just over at GOAL.COM and they published a list by the ASSOCIATION OF FOOTBALL STATISTICIANS of the TOP 100 FOOTBALLERS OF ALL TIME.
For me the list is ludicrous. The omission of many great players like George Best to name just one. The inclusion of short term successes like Kanu, Wiltord and Djorkaeff as well as players who wouldn’t make a top 200 list like Ali Daei (because he played his football in a country where the standard of the game is poor) and Sukur makes me just laugh out loud. Maradona in 6th place? Are they brain dead? Cafu in the top 10? Cruyff down at 21? Matthaus above Muller and Beckenbauer and Rummenigge? MADNESS. I’d be interested to know what some of you think?
The AFS Top 100 In Full:
1 Pele Brazil
2 Ronaldo Brazil
3 Romario Brazil
4 Luis Figo Portugal
5 Zinedine Zidane France
6 Diego Maradona Argentina
7 Lothar Matthaus Germany
8 Gerd Muller Germany
9 Franz Beckenbauer Germany
10 Cafu Brazil
11 Roberto Carlos Brazil
12 Marco van Basten Holland
13 Michel Platini France
14 Rivaldo Brazil
15 Paolo Maldini Italy
16 Zico Brazil
17 Raul Spain
18 Ruud Gullit Holland
19 Eusebio Portugal
20 Ferenc Puskas Hungary
21 Johan Cruyff Holland
22 Alfredo di Stefano Argentina
23 Bobby Charlton England
24 Jurgen Klinsmann Germany
25 Kenny Dalglish Scotland
26 Ali Daei Iran
27 Karl-Heinz Rummenigge Germany
28 Gabriel Batistuta Argentina
29 Michael Laudrup Denmark
30 Hristo Stoichkov Bulgaria
31 Dennis Bergkamp Holland
32 Frank Rijkaard Holland
33 Thierry Henry France
34 Pavel Nedved Czech Rep
35 Gheorghe Hagi Romania
36 Peter Schmeichel Denmark
37 Andrei Shevchenko Ukraine
38 Sepp Maier Germany
39 Didier Deschamps France
40 Lilian Thuram France
41 Enzo Francescoli Uruguay
42 Hakan Sukur Turkey
43 Paolo Rossi Italy
44 David Beckham England
45 Jean-Pierre Papin France
46 Kevin Keegan England
47 Marcel Desailly France
48 Oliver Kahn Germany
49 Alessandro Costacurta Italy
50 Clarence Seedorf Holland
51 Dino Zoff Italy
52 Patrick Kluivert Holland
53 Jari Litmanen Finland
54 Daniel Passarella Arg
55 Bixente Lizarazu France
56 Gary Lineker England
57 Ronaldhino Brazil
58 Sylvain Wiltord France
59 Bebeto Brazil
60 Alessandro Del Piero Italy
61 Davor Suker Croatia
62 Ryan Giggs Wales
63 David Trezeguet France
64 Demetrio Albertini Italy
65 Patrick Vieira France
66 Jurgen Kohler Germany
67 Laurent Blanc France
68 Michael Owen England
69 Youri Djorkaeff France
70 Frank De Boer Holland
71 Emilio Butragueno Spain
72 Hugo Sanchez Mexico
73 Rudi Voller Germany
74 Djalma Santos Brazil
75 Giacinto Facchetti Italy
76 Kanu Nigeria
77 Franco Baresi Italy
78 Gianni Rivera Italy
79 Roberto Baggio Italy
80 Oscar Ruggeri Argentina
81 Gheorghe Popescu Romania
82 Jon D Tomasson Denmark
83 Raymond Kopa France
84 Carlos Valderrama Colombia
85 Rui Costa Portugal
86 Gary Neville England
87 Edgar Davids Holland
88 Claudio Taffarel Brazil
89 Paul Scholes England
90 Diego Simeone Argentina
91 Bryan Robson England
92 Roy Keane Rep of Ireland
93 Brian Laudrup Denmark
94 Henrik Larsson Sweden
95 Fabien Barthez France
96 Michael Ballack Germany
97 Jan Koller Czech Republic
98 Edwin van der Sar Holland
99 Robert Pires France
100 Johan Neeskens Holland
November 7th, 2007 at 19:50
Utter bs!maradona at 6?ha ha who are these ppl?figo is good but 4th?
November 7th, 2007 at 19:59
Team:
VDS
Simpson
Pique
Vidic
Evra
Ronaldo
Carrick
Fletch
Nani
Rooney
Tevez
Bench: Kuszczak Brown Anderson Saha O’Shea Evans Eagles
November 7th, 2007 at 20:01
Grognard: The list is ridiculous but is it a purely subjective one or is there some form of statistical reasoning to it?
November 7th, 2007 at 20:06
I have never seen such a bad list anytime in my life..I am surprised to see some names there…Jan Koller??..Wiltord??and on top of that alongside Ronaldinho????..Litmanen??…I think the list was either created by a moron who was given with 100 player names and countries or was created by football journalist when he was high on marinjuana..Pretty hilarious for any football fan of any age and any country!!!!
November 7th, 2007 at 20:18
Hargreaves?rested?or…..?
November 7th, 2007 at 20:25
Fergie is taking cautious steps..Ferdinand who had trouble with groin,Hargreaves and Saha with knee are rested from the starting line up and as expected lots of new faces in there..Pique,Simpson and good ol Fletcher..Saha is on the bench for match practi e…and i dont think Tevezor Ronney gonna play full 90 here..
November 7th, 2007 at 20:49
I do not know what criteria they used to make the list but it makes absolutely no sense. I forgot to mention Koller. What a joke! I wouldn’t place him in the top 100 Eastern European list. I was never a Maradona fan but there was no denying his brilliance, artistry and desire. He also had a hand from God. To see him 6th makes the whole list nothing more than toilet paper. If they would only explain their decision making process I would be able to understand the level of their dimensia. It may be a subjective list but still their are choices and placements on it that are radically wrong it amazes me that supposed football experts created it.
November 7th, 2007 at 20:50
I am glad that Fergie is resting Rio but I think he should have rested Ronaldo too, and possibly EVDS
November 7th, 2007 at 21:18
good header for the goal by pique 1-0 to united
November 7th, 2007 at 21:19
pique scores yeah yippe yeah ok enough
November 7th, 2007 at 21:27
tevez scores damn u tele suckers for not airing the live match tonight
November 7th, 2007 at 21:35
I’m totally pissed that I have to watch United on tape delay this evening here in Canada. Instead I have to either watch Arsenal or Rangers. Oh well, at least it will be on. It’s 2-0 as I write this so it looks like they are playing well. Loved the fact Pique scored.
November 7th, 2007 at 21:38
yh streaming the match is soooo delayed its horrendous, i use commentary from the radio because there is only mandarin on the stream. the stream is a few minutes behind, it really brings my piss to a boil!
November 7th, 2007 at 22:00
the match is on tvu player
November 7th, 2007 at 22:05
I think Ronaldo have lost possession close to ten times in this match. Frustrating, but we’re winning so what the hey.
November 7th, 2007 at 22:08
They’re aren’t playing that well, functional and professional would be more like it.
November 7th, 2007 at 22:33
this was an easy game for united against Dynamo Kyiv .another 4 goal for united.united control the game in the 1st half and also the second.united relax in the 2nd half and that let Kyiv get some chances .good goal by pique rooney ronaldo and tevez.pique goal tevez was offside
November 7th, 2007 at 22:36
What can I say, I had vision. I predicted 4-0 and it was 4-0. I love it when a plan comes together.
November 7th, 2007 at 22:38
4-0 without even playing that well. There’s more to come from this team.
November 7th, 2007 at 22:46
Ronaldo goal was superb
November 7th, 2007 at 23:22
http://soccerlens.com/top-100-greatest-ever-footballers/3888/
Read that and it talks about the criteria.
November 7th, 2007 at 23:46
Cheers Connor, I suppose this is what happens when you try to apply purely statistical methods of analysis to what is a highly subjective issue.
November 8th, 2007 at 0:45
“Ali Daei won his place by scoring 109 goals in 149 international matches for Iran.” If we are going to put value in over 100 game she played for Iran against other competion like Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, India, Syria and Iraq. WOW! What a legend! The guy wouldn’t have made it in the Coca Cola League.
The criteria is unfortunately compiled by mathmetician and not football experts that understand the artistry, skill and dynamic elements that make a footballer. Too judge a player because he played for a small nation like Northern Ireland which didn’t have a great international record borders on discrimination. Why? Because unlike Ali Daei, George Best played for one of the world’s great club teams. They put too much emphasis on international games and not enough on the number of years a player played at the highest level. To not include Cantona, Netzer, Jairzinho, Gerson, Tostao, Falcoa, Lato, Deyna, Boniek, Brehme, Klose, Law, and others is quite shocking considering the number of overrated and unspectacular scrubs that were. Koller, Kluivert, Litmanen, Wiltord, Djorkaeff, Popescu, Tomasson, Costa, Taffarel,
November 8th, 2007 at 1:03
Sorry but the post got cut off in half. Here the last half of the that post.
B. Laudrup, Barthez and Pires are just awful choices and many of them wouldn’t even make consideration on my Top 300 list. Not because they are poor players but because in 100 years thousands and thousands of great players have emerged in all the eras. To pick 14 Frogs who have all played within the past 15 years is a disgrace and completely bias. Is this organization funded by France Football or Michel Platini? A frakken joke!!!
My God the sport is over a century old. Do these muppets honestly think that football begins during France 1998? 16 Frenchman. France has only been a soccer power since 1982, an even then, they were only good enough to win the World Cup in 1998. Countries like Germany, Italy, Argentina and Brazil deserve most of the consideration and I would rank England and the Dutch closely behind. The list is a travesty and these clowns will make money from this garbage.
November 8th, 2007 at 8:33
grognard same was the case in india even i had to watch either arsenal or rangers and wate for the delayed tele cast of United’s game
that list is sucking shit
My reply on soccerlens was
““Manchester United legends George Best, Denis Law and Eric Cantona don’t make the top 100.â€
Statistics can kiss my backside this list is lame as hell
and i guess this is what happens when geeks with fat glasses do some work that involves passion/addiction/crazyness which most of footy fans have .
These guys are just trying to make a quick buck with the book and nothing else”
November 8th, 2007 at 10:04
i would think that the bias towards modern players would be because statistical records become more complete as time mand technology advance.
November 8th, 2007 at 11:24
I hate that list. I commented on it over at Soccerlens. BS.
Grognard, if no one else will say it, I will. Congrtulations on geting the score right. It’s not so much for the score, but more for the approach to the game. I shared the same sentiment.
I know I commented yesterday that with OH and Carrick playing it will not be boring…I was wrong. Even though we won this match with a good scoreline, this was arguably the most boring match of all. Even worse than our 1-0 matches. (I wonder if Anderson’s ommision had anything to do with it???). I have a feeling that the rest of the group games will be a bit ‘more-of-the-same’ (Carling Cup style).
I guess Arsenal were too tired after the draw with us to even come close to repeating the 7 goal scoreline
November 8th, 2007 at 16:16
To be honest, i don’t mind boring match here and there, as long as we play excellent football many many many matches, especially against the likes of arsenal, chelsea, liv. the one pushes the gas all the way down is the one running out of gas late in the season.. it was a well conserve energy..
November 8th, 2007 at 17:01
Karl; Thanks for the congrats. The score may have ended 4-0 but the play and the desire never looked or seemed like a team that went out there and scored four goals. That speaks volumes about how bad that opposition was. United was only in second gear and basically had a leisurely stroll in the park. There was no urgency or hunger in the match until the second half, and even then the desire was not that eye opening.
United or Kiev are not at fault for providing such a boring contest, if one can say a 4-0 game is boring. But it was just that, boring. Players were often walking rather than running. And the same thing happened in the Arsenal game too.
This brings me to the point of my latest Devil/Rant. The bottom line is that the Champions League totally SUCKS at the group stages. Too much chess playing and very little football. Every game is mapped out like a chess board and the tactics that are used almost seem like they have come down by government officials determined to get the minimum result required as it is cheaper and less embarrassing for their opponents. What can be done to add some urgency and some life to these group matches? I have always said the reason football will never make it in North America is because American’s and Canadian’s would never tolerate two teams just going through the motions in a political game of chess.
Chess may be a complex, tactical and popular game amongst intellectuals but to the masses it is a quiet uninspiring game of boredom. Why then does the “beautiful game” allow men like Rafa Benitez and so many others to make their living dissecting a great sport and then reducing it to nothing but chess? Forget Liverpool’s 8-0 demolition. Concentrate on the face of the sullen looking chess master Benitez in the 89th minute with his team up 8-0. The man looked like he had just been told his wife had left him for Clive Owen. This man treats games like chess matches. Clinically moving the players around like chess pieces with little regard or knowledge of the game of football. He can’t even take a second to enjoy the match or to compliment his players by showing his approval. Jose Mourinho, and most of the manager’s in Serie A are the same. Fortunately Fergie still has a lot of kid in him as he jumps for joy every time we score. Individuals like RAFA and the Special One have taken the game to a level of technical sophistication that the game doesn’t resemble football anymore but a board game or computer simulation. They do harm to the game with their tactics and with the growing knowledge that they are not football fans at all. They are thinkers and pragmatists. The game requires some thinking but these men have systematically ripped out the heart and soul of the game so that they can tactically maneuver pawns on a board to get a dull and clinical result. For them a CL tie should be 1-0 at home and 0-0 on the road and lets call off the dogs. This kind of thinking (which is prevailing mostly in the Champions League is growing in popularity and may become an epidemic. These men are not football people they are chartered accountants balancing books with mathematical precision. Christ, football isn’t a Football Manager 08 the pc simulation.
The game has lost it’s attacking charm and and freedom of expression. Chelsea (under Mourinho) and Liverpool players have had to endure this disgusting introduction to the modern game. Italy has had it pollute their collective mind set for over 60 years. The poor players have had shackles placed on them and are told to go out and perform a role under the strictest of physical and spiritual restrictions. We can hate him all we want but Roman Abramovich was right in his assessment of Chelsea’s play under the Special One.
And all this gets worse when watching the Champions League with it’s consummate 0-0 score lines and increasingly watered down competition. It even forces teams like Manchester United, advocates of beautiful football, to play a slow and uninspired game because all that is important is the result, in this business oriented bookkeepers environment. How can an Arsenal team destroy a team 7-0 and be held scoreless the next time they meet? Or even worse, Liverpool losing it’s first match to Besiktas only to clobber them 8-0 with their B team. If I didn’t know any better, I’d claim that the fix was in. Nevertheless, The reality for Liverpool was that unnecessary caution and tactics are being used too often and it’s ruining the games integrity. Yes Wenger rested all his stars yesterday but 0-0 for me as a fan, is just not acceptable. Where is the pride?
I’m sure some of you (and I won’t give names) will come out and say that it’s the result and qualifying for the knockout stages that matters. I say you are wrong and misguided. This attitude and malaise is enough to make any true footy fan sick to the stomach. I SAY BOLLOCKS to all managers who think this way and DOUBLE BOLLOCKS to the overrated Champions League. Football is slowly becoming a disgrace to itself and only we the fans can do something about it. Fight for your right to be entertained and not bored out of your mind by these jackals who are stripping the game of it’s beauty and dignity. All I can say is thank God we have Fergie or we too would have settled for 0-0 yesterday. As it was, even United lacked the killer edge but at least they attempted to attack. Against a decent side I’m afraid the game probably would have ended 0-0 or 1-0. Lets face it, Kiev was shite served on platter.
November 8th, 2007 at 17:50
Grognard, Cant agree more.. I am also a big fan of the beautiful game rather than the chess board tactics. Football is a game where imagination and determination combines with skill and ability. You can go for some tactics for defending like man-marking,zonal-marking and stuff…but i will tell you no player love to play under rules..
Anytime when i captained my team, i used to remind them their roles and their contribution to the team. Once they know that its upto them to play their role well and enjoy the game ..if they provide something beyond playing their roles it is always welcome…
The best out of a team comes when you allows the player free ticket to attack and roles for them to perform..Let them innovate, let them backflick,let them do stepovers…Some may say that at higher level that mentality never works…I say yes..At higher level the players are more mature and they know better what their role is in the team…Anyway all have their own theory..let them be happy with that…
Play with passion and play from the heart… I always played amateur league because their game means passion rather than business…
P.S : Was the game that boring that Redranter dont even bother to put up a review? (Sorry i am one o those unlucky creature on earth who have to work while the game is on)
November 8th, 2007 at 18:26
i like the list, pele is where he deserves to be number 1, apart from taht, something i dont agree with, cant be assed to say though
November 8th, 2007 at 18:51
Shyam; The key word you used was “ENJOY”. Just because they are professional athletes does not mean that they have to be turned into passionless 9 to 5 database administrators, stuck in a cubicle wishing they had a window view. Kudos to Fergie for not putting shackles on the creative tendencies of one Cristiano Ronaldo. There are times where caution and good sense have to take precedence, but to reduce every match to a slogging move and counter move is awful. What’s even more awful are the numerous fans of the game that tolerate and even support this negative way of thinking. They in fact watch the game like chartered accountants consumed with only one thing, the bottom line.
Before I continue let me first apologize to all Rangers fans and then add my condolences. Clearly your side is not as good as Barcelona, but Walter Smith’s tactics in both games was a crying shame and a disgrace to the game. Why? Because the players and the supporters should want more than just qualifying for the knockout stages where they will be knocked out where they don’t have a hope in Hell of winning the competition anyway. Why? Because they lack the courage (through their manager) to actually attempt to WIN a game. How do you win a football match? By scoring more goals than your opponent. To qualify for a stage where you have no chance of moving forward due to lack of quality and attacking ambition is just prolonging the inevitable. Unless of course you have a system in place that allows you to have two straight 0-0 games and then settling the tie with a penalty shootout. So why do teams play like this, because whether they are a great side or a pretender, they are playing to prolong their stay in the competition because of the money the club will make. This crappy mentality is caused by money and greed. It’s skillful accounting. It’s keeping a business operating with little cost, production and sales. It’s total RUBBISH. And it should be stamped out by the cowards at FIFA and UEFA.
Michel Platini, Sepp Blatter, rather than having more useless little nations or clubs involved in tournaments like the World Cup or Champions League, you should be concerned more about the dwindling numbers of goals that have ruined the game since it’s last great glory period, that being the 1970 World Cup. Lets promote goals and offer rewards for more goals rather than defending them. IT’S A SIMPLE CONCEPT REALLY! Bring back the fun in the game for fans and players.
November 8th, 2007 at 19:49
Yea ,well grognard its very easy to say that they should come out and play. and do this and that but that is just not the reality of the game.yes we all want to see open games with skill and goals….but for teams that dont have these players what are they expected to do?i dont see messi,ronaldinho,henry and co in rangers.do u?teams like rangers adopt tactics to the situation.in scotland they play open because the quality is way less. but against barca?at the nou camp?no wayz they goin to come out all guns blazing.they would get slaughtered!the reality is teams take the result.what do u expect them to do “we played open football and got beat 4 0?”which sane coach in their right mind would settle for that?
November 8th, 2007 at 19:54
And for u guys who didnt enjoy the 4 0 rout yesterday.i dont know what u want.didnt u see evra piece of skill?or rooneys?or maybe ronaldos goal?do u honestly expect the players to put in their all for a pointless game?when theres a game on the weekend?for wat?and against kiev?give me a break
November 8th, 2007 at 20:05
so what your saying is a system, like the amsterdam tournament, where a goal=1 point, it could be something along those lines, or maybe each 10 goals a team gets £50,000 prize money, that way teams would be banging in the goals so they can get funds to by players, or pay salaries
November 8th, 2007 at 21:58
Taehr; Perhaps teams that can’t compete by actually playing football with attacking intent should not be in the tournament. If it was up to me the Champions league would involve only 16 teams and would be a knockout only tournament where the teams that are drawn against each other play two games total goals and each goal counting for a point. The final would be like it is, one match on a predetermined location. Ths would reduce the Champions League to the workable status of a MAXIMUM 7 GAMES. The league is too long and the fatigue and constant resting of key players during league matches and vice versa is due to the fact that there are too many games being played. Remember how tired and lethargic United and Chelsea looked in the FA Cup. The FA Cup is around 7 matches for the teams that actually get to the final. For me it’s a fair measure of a team and getting a strong result.
Elite tournaments have no reason to allow all Champions. Let there be a secondary Champions League where the winner gets promoted and the team with the worst showing in the elite league gets demoted. If that happens to be a great team that just fell apart in the first round, then so be it. Bayern Munich is not in the Champions League this season. So a top 16 team that gets bounced out early and easily deserves a year in the B League. Simply put I want, no I demand a tournament of TRUE HIGH QUALITY CHAMPIONS, and not pretenders and wannabes. Let the cream of Europe’s crop fight it out and give them incentive to score goals in order to advance through to the next round. As for the final, broadcasters and UEFA should offer financial incentives to clubs and players for goal scoring. If money is all that matters, use it appropriately. For Gods sake, raise the bar of entertainment value before the whole world starts making rugby their first choice. I hope that also answers your question adil alhinai?
November 8th, 2007 at 22:08
[Taehr] The point is that you play all negative and get beaten 1-0 or 2-0 and make the game boring.
A game becomes entertaining when both the teams comes with a positive attitude and a fighting mentality. Do you remember the first game at 2002 World cup. France and Senegal were miles apart when you think about skill,ability and individuals. Did they use any negative tactics to create that win..Did Benfica beat United two seasons ago with negative tactics?? .To get best out of any player in the world he has to play from his heart and with passion and at the same time “enjoy” what he do on the pitch…This is the keyword for any player in any game - let him be a kid playing football in the streets or a world class player playing on a World cup final….Enjoy the game.. You may lose or win by doing that…but you lose knowing that you gave 100% of your ability…
November 8th, 2007 at 22:08
Taehr; We played open SLOW football because the opposition was total shit. They had a few half chances that they turned in to cow dung. Milan or others scored with those chances against us last season. It was comfortable evening walk for United. And that’s fine provided they still attempt to attack and try to score, which they did. It was a little dull because of the pace and because the opposition left little to be desired. A good team would have brought more out of the lads. Still, 4-0 is 4-0 and for that I am happy.
One more thing about the game. What I would give for Ronaldo to score a goal like that against a difficult opponent. He really needs to elevate his intensity and find ways to make more of an impact. He played alright against Arsenal and even though he scored and set up a goal, he was absent for most of the match. And he has been absent against Chelsea and top CL clubs over the past year except for the 7-1 game against Roma. Don’t get me wrong I love Ronny, but I think that either he or Fergie have to figure out a way to find him some space in which to operate more during tight contests.
November 8th, 2007 at 22:18
So just because a team does not (or attempt to) play an acceptable attacking version of the game means that should not be in the CL. Just because we do not like Rangers version of football against Barcelona doesn’t make them any less entitled to take part in the Champions League. You say Walter Smith lacks courage yet perhaps he is a pragmatist/realist who opted for the option that he thought gave them the most chance of taking something from the Nou Camp.
BTW Your top 16 for the CL, is it the Champions of the 16 top European leagues or is there a different criteria for selection.
November 8th, 2007 at 22:20
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11667_2866730,00.html
somebody is sniffing some stuff
November 8th, 2007 at 22:47
JB; Please explain to me what the point is of playing a series of games against one opponent if there is no desire or intent to win those games. What you are saying is that Smith should be allowed to put up a wall to prevent embarrassment. I say he has no business playing at the Nou Camp until he has a team with the quality to compete and to try an out score it’s opponent. Simple concept really. To play for a draw just so they advance is just delaying the inevitable. Do they honestly have a rats chance in Hell of winning the CL with an attitude like that? So why take part in it. It’s totally done as to extend their run to their maximum because they want the money that comes with it. They should be playing for the trophy and for club pride and for the good of the players. What player wants to play that kind of game. To not attempt an attack and defend with eleven men is judt disgusting and it is shameful. Courage is developing a scheme where your team can attack, counter, do something to at least have a few cracks at goal. I’d be a little more sympathetic if they played like that after going in front 1-0. But Smith was never intending on trying to score. What’s even more shameful is that Rangers played the same way at home. That should be considered unforgivable to the supporters, if they weren’t already brain dead and suffering from delusions of grandeur.
The top 16 would be selected by a seeding system based on European rankings. Obviously current and recent form both in their league and the CL would come in to play as well as historical considerations. And no more than the top two teams from any one domestic league.
Enough of this garbage of four or five teams from Spain, Italy and England getting in. You have got to be a domestic champion or a runner up and of course the past CL champion gets a bye in to the tourney.
EXAMPLE BASED ON LAST SEASON’S STANDINGS.
1. AC MILAN (CL champion), 2. INTER, 3. AS ROMA 4.REAL MADRID, 5. BARCELONA, 6. MANCHESTER UTD, 7. CHELSEA, 8. VFB STUTTGART, 9. SCHALKE, 10. CELTIC, 11. PORTO, 12. SPORTING LISBON 13. PSV, 14. OLYMPIACOS, 15, LYON, 16. MARSEILLES,
Only 9 European nations have teams in the tournament but but the nations are based on their quality and the seedings of teams by UEFA and FIFA. Let their be a second tournament of 16 teams with only one team allowed from remaining nations qualified to participate based on rankings. The winner of that tourney would get promoted to the CL. It seems very fair to me and it is also a realistic measure of quality.
November 8th, 2007 at 22:50
That was a completetely crap performance with some noticable exceptions. No one has said it yet so I will: Ronaldo was absolute muck out there and looked like he had never seen a football out there. That was the least exciting 4-0 I have seen in my whole life and I can’t believe that more people aren’t as disappointed with it as I am.
November 8th, 2007 at 23:04
Rangers have been landed in the CL group of death and Walter Smith is doing his best to navigate it. Frankly 1 point against Barcelona is a hell of a lot better than I thought they would do. This is effectively a team of journeymen going to play the best passing team in the world in one of the most intimidating stadiums about. Remember this team a few weeks ago let 4 goals in away against Hearts. Realistically Rangers have no chance of winning the Champions League (attacking style or not) but then only 4 teams have a chance of winning the EPL and maybe 8 teams the FA Cup. Even the list you provided for the CL only has 8 teams at a stretch that have a realistic chance of winning it.
November 9th, 2007 at 2:29
JB; I don’t know if you realized this yet, but you just made my point. Journeyman teams have no chance of winning the trophy have no business in the Champions league. Domestic leagues have to be given a little more latitude because you cannot function with just four teams. They also have longer seasons and thus teams have time to build and rebuild, to improve and adapt. The CL is an elite privileged league. It is not necessarry for it to show political correctness or fairness. It’s for the cream of Europe. If you want I could pick 16 teams that all have a chance of winning it, but then we would only be talking about 4 or 5 countries. Sure Arsenal, Sevilla, Roma and Bayern deserve to be there, but lets be more liberal by having more nations represented. I do believe that those lesser clubs that I mentioned like Celtic, and Olympiakos can actually compete and are not afraid to attack at home and counter attack on the road. The whole point is to give back the prestige to the competition that it should have, shorten the competition and make it much more competitive.
The FA Cup is like the British Open. It allows all teams in all divisions to participate. Hell, there have even been surprises but then again, when you only play one game and somebody has to win, then something has to give. It forces teams to show some offensive enterprise. For me it’s a strong competition although it should have a seeding system that prevents early round meetings between the top 5 or 6 clubs in the EPL. When it’s all said and done the UK and the world still want to see Manchester United against Arsenal, Chelski or Liverpool.
November 9th, 2007 at 8:30
I’m still busy reading the ‘long’ posts. (I’m at post 60 now but feel the need to respond)
[Taehr]
“do u honestly expect the players to put in their all for a pointless game?”
Is that not the point Grognard is trying to make? It is a Champions League (filled with Champions you know), there should be NO pointless games. The fact that there are, its a problem imo.
Don’t get me wrong. I am happy for the win. I am happy with the lads. But the game was boring.
Perhaps Fifa should look at having a Uefa kind of competition just to enter into the CL, and then a world CL perhaps afterwards. I don’t know. I do know however that the current situation is kinda killing the beautiful game.
Also, somehow goals should be rewarded more.
As for the ‘not wanting to lose’ mentality, I still maintain that the best form of defense is offense.
November 9th, 2007 at 8:33
[59. Dan]
Forgive them. They know no better.
November 9th, 2007 at 11:04
Karl.i was talking bout the ppl who were angry with united for not playing on wednesday to their full.i dont think the 16 team champions league can work though.i enjoy games pointless or not and 16 teams would mean less games in a season.no thanks.
November 9th, 2007 at 11:19
What I meant was have 16 in the CL, and then have another FIFA World CL competition also with 16 teams. That will still provide enough games to enjoy. What do you think?
November 9th, 2007 at 14:03
pointless games happen everytime; After Casey Stoner crowned motogp champion, the rest of the races pointless. boring for me. expect NOT so boring matches after the group stage.
There are poor sides in CL, but i think it’s due to fifa balancing the participants on region base. if not, ideal World cup for me is Euro cup + Argentina + Brazil + either Mexico or Chile.
November 9th, 2007 at 18:27
After the G14 clubs , it is easy to find 16 other semi-deserving European clubs to play a home/away knockout tournament to establish the final entrants into the tournament. I’m only using the G14 as an example because they are the 14 most successful and richest clubs in European football. They could be replaced by the 14 best sides in Europe based on the standings of the past season from the major nations in the competition.
Let the 16 semi-deserving teams play their knockout tourney until January, and let the real Champions League begin when the usual knockout stage begins in February. It can be done. After all, it is only a maximum seven games to the tournament final included.
For the 16 semi-deserving league winner and runner-up teams it would be a longer season but
wouldn’t it be worth it. One wins a trophy for winning that competition and then it and the runner-up qualify for the big tourney as well. This solution may not add more goals and attacking flair, but it would get rid of undeserving teams from the competition (while allowing many of them to still attempt to get in)and would make all games meaningful and suspenseful regardless of the amount of scoring. It is vital to make every game in the Champions League important to the competition. Right now the last two games of the group stage mean nothing for Manchester United. That is wrong and poor full of poor logic in planning. I honestly believe my plan works and it doesn’t forget the lesser teams as they all get a crack at competing to qualify for the big show. It’s all about prestige and integrity.