May 26
Manchester United 07/08 Season Review: The Midfield
Yesterday we talked about the attack and got a good response in the comments as well. For those who missed it, head over and have a look at the ratings and do drop in your comments.
Today we discuss the midfield, and as I mentioned earlier, we mean the central midfield.
Paul Scholes:
As with Giggs, another great servant of Manchester United. Quite easily among the most technically gifted English midfielders of the past decade. Scholesy’s international retirement has been our gain as this has helped keep him fresh for our games, but this season he clearly seemed on his last legs. SAF has said his contribution next season will be much less than this year. The Ginger Prince made an excellent start after returning from injury, with a great performance against Pompey, earlier this year. But after that early promise he seemed to fade away a bit. He punctuated some below-par performances with the odd great ‘un, but overall he has been underwhelming by his own high standards.
He, however reserved his best for the last. While being run over against Barcelona in the first leg, he managed to keep his cool and not earn any yellow cards, while blasting the winner in the second leg. In the final against Chelsea, his one-two with Brown led to the goal against Chelsea. Whilst he was overrun by Ballack and co in the second half, it must be noted that he was battling a bloody nose throughout the game. Rating: 7/10
Michael Carrick:
After a slow start to the season, Carrick has managed to overcome stiff competition for the midfield berth to become a regular. That, in itself, is rebuttal to the earlier criticism that he doesn’t have the bottle to fight for his place. Carrick has certainly improved his passing range this season. He has attempted more forward and ambitious passes than he’s ever done before but he is still capable of doing better than what he’s shown. Rating: 7/10
Owen Hargreaves:
Has had a stop start first season when his injury situation was scaring the hell out of many fans. Thankfully he seems to have overcome all that and can be judged on his performance on the pitch instead of his injury. He ended the season strongly and has shown enough character to potentially become one of United’s most important players in the coming years. His versatility — he can play at right back, right wing apart from central midfield — has given United options they never previously had. His performance at home on the right wing against Roma was one of the highlights. He’s got excellent crossing ability, great engine, and a good head on his shoulders. He’s a fighter, and had he come to the Premier League earlier, many more people would have seen what Sven saw in him. Rating: 7.5/10
Anderson:
The surprise package. No one expected too much from him in his very first season. When Scholes, Carrick and Hargreaves suffered injuries and knocks, everyone thought the season was going to be pretty tough. Not to mention, some hacks writing him off after the defeat at Coventry in the Carling Cup.
Coming on as a sub in the Wigan game changed everything; he turned the game with his energy and passing. But it were the big games where he really grew in fans’ estimation. His power packed performances against Arsenal at the Emirates or Liverpool at Anfield showed the lad had much more in him than quick feet. Upstaging Gerrard and Fabregas in their own den at the tender age of 19 would be the thing of dreams for most footballers. Players like him are the reason why we came so far this season. SAF now has the ability to look at his bench when things aren’t going so well on the pitch, and smile. Anderson’s introduction against Arsenal at OT again changed the game. And his nerveless penalty in the final also showed what he’s made of. An excellent debut season. Rating: 7.5/10
Darren Fletcher:
He’s done the job when called upon like he’s always done. The good thing about United’s squad is that fringe players are always ready to play when the manager calls them up and don’t sulk when they are not called upon. Fletcher has played much less this season than before but he’s been important to the squad. He has this uncanny knack of doing well in big games, like the FA Cup game against Arsenal. However he was run over in the loss at Stamford Bridge. A good squad player, but I can’t see him progress beyond this at United. Rating: 6.5/10
May 26th, 2008 at 15:07
Oh come on, the guys played their hearts out this season, please give them a 1 point push on ratings.
May 26th, 2008 at 15:10
lol
May 26th, 2008 at 15:21
I hope Hargreaves can shake off the injuries cause when fit he is world class. And justifies the price we paid for him. Anderson also justified his price tag. I think we all assumed he was bought for the long term. But he proved himself in his first year. I want him to be a regular in the first XI next season. I think with more starts we will see him start scoring a lot more, and I think we all agree that we need more goals from the midfield next season.
May 26th, 2008 at 15:24
Fair ratings. Even Scholes told his legs are not as fast as it used to be, and it takes him 15mins to get back if he ventures forward.
May 26th, 2008 at 15:43
Pretty fair ratings, but I would give Carrick an 8 because he was most definitely our best midfielder this season.
May 26th, 2008 at 15:51
Special attention to Anderson. Give him the role like Fabregas plays at Arsenal, with Carrick consistently being his central midfield partner. With patience and encouragement, we will see an explosive attacking midfield player that will eclipse the likes of Gerrard and Fabregas. the future world player of the year. BELIEVE ME.
P/S: with all his main attributes, it is obvious Hargo is our next Right-Back.
May 26th, 2008 at 15:53
Scholes 7/10…..the consistency he maintained all through his career has diminished and while on his day he can still run the game from midfield on other occasions his influence was minimal. You can see that Carrick plays better with Scholes although as a central midfield partnership they can look lightweight. Very good performance in both legs against Barcelona showed his value to the team.
Carrick 8/10 A good season, managed to keep his place in the first team despite competition from Anderson. His passing is fantastic and his defensive abilities subtle but usually effective. Only weaknesses is poor shooting ability, occasionally failing to track back and letting better players ghost past him (a la Kaka last year) and lack of steel.
Anderson 7/10 Some great games but especially in Europe could look like a headless chicken. Seems more of a box-to-box battling midfielder. Needs to demonstrate more his passing range and learn to shoot. Probably had the shackles on for this season and with time should become a more complete midfielder.
Hargreaves 8/10….struggled with injuries which pissed me off as he was the signing that was meant to have the immediate impact. But some tremendous performances especially in Europe. Slotted in at right back when needed and looked solid helping us avoid the defensive crises of last season. Did not play much as an anchorman but impressed with his energy in midfield and crossing ability. However he sometimes looks a bit suspect in possession and if he is going to get into shooting positions id like him to score more.
Fletcher 6.5/10 Mediocre player but reliable, loyal, never has a bad game and steps up consistently in the big matches. Brilliant squad player to have.
May 26th, 2008 at 16:01
sorry but I can’t agree. I mean rating Carrick less than Hargo and Andy is very unfair because he was much better and more consistent than both of them. I think Andy will be a great player but he wasn’t as good this season as is being made out and I would rate him equal or just below Scholes
May 26th, 2008 at 16:04
I think the ratings are fair enough. I do believ that this guys can do way better spesificly Hargo and Anderson. I think it hurt us that SAF couldn’t decide on the best paring, so I hope that this problemn will be solved by next season.
May 26th, 2008 at 16:37
I think if you are goint to give Anderson a 7.5 then Carrick deserves a 7.5. He might not be the greatest tackler but he does the job by shutting off the passing lanes, his passing range has improved and he has become more ambitious with his runs when he is allowed (more often than not he has to play the holding role which restricts his opportunities to make runs). The other ratings seem pretty fair to me and I can’t wait to see how Anderson develops next year
May 26th, 2008 at 17:25
Colver: Carrick has great shooting ability from distance, easily better than Anderson (though that isn’t really hard), or Fletcher - remember Roma last season? Its just that he didn’t get too often in really dangerous on-the0edge-of-the -box situations.
He also scored a fair few at Tottingham.
But I’d still give him 7.5 because I think that while he is clinical in his displays, he has dragged a bit offensively especially at the end of the season.
Mid-season i would have given him a 8 easily.
Also I’d give Fletch a 7 - while he often underperforms against bread and butter opposition, he transcends himself time and again on big occasions. He was really good before injury disrupted his season.
I think most of us are tempted to adjust our ratings according to recent (~~ last 10-15 matches) performances and overlook early or mid season form.
As such, had Anderson not slowed down a bit for the end of season, he would have been easily a 8.
May 26th, 2008 at 17:40
It is my gut conviction that had Fletcher been formed at a team like West-Ham he would be today considered as world-class.
On his day Fletch can be:
- a great DM, much better than Scholes or Carrick will ever be
- a great header of the ball, often in flowing moves - reminds me a bit of Ballack
- a tidy short range passer
- early in his United career I though he also had good crossing, and long range passing. Shame this part is nowadays clearly missing from his game
- also in his early United career he seemed to have decent technique
All in all I just felt that his repeated positioning on the right side of midfield might have dampened a bit his natural CM instincts.
But a club like United simply cannot afford to try to blood a CM coming from youth ranks considering the tactical importance of the position. No wonder recently we have only been producing wing players coming from youth ranks.
May 26th, 2008 at 17:41
carrick an 8… really turned it on in the 2nd half of the season with some stellar performances - the fact that he played most of our run-in games says a lot
May 26th, 2008 at 17:42
And let me just stress these words, to prevent misunderstandings: ON HIS DAY, Fletch can be…
May 26th, 2008 at 17:49
As far as the ratings go i think there more or less spot on. Just a quick word on Anderson, im not sure if he is a direct replacement for Scholes or is he a little Brazilian Keano who is more of an attacking treat??? Watever he is there is one thing for sure, HE IS PURE QUAILTY!
May 26th, 2008 at 17:58
Fair enough ratings coz I think all our midfielders had good spells as well as some quieter spells with no one having a good season from start to finish.
Anderson has been the most pleasing midfield player for me this season, after a slow start he burst on to the scene with some stellar performances against experienced opposition, particulary when he played with Hargreaves as part of a central pairing and it was during this period just after the Wigan game that I belieave we played our best football both at home and in Europe. After Scholes returned from injury SAF played Ando slightly more forward,all most as a no 10 and it was then that he lost his way a bit so SAF should consider very carefully how he is going to use him next season.
The combo of Carrick and Scholes seemed to be the preffered choice of SAF in the run in and its hard to argue with that because we got the job done, but in reality this pairing looked like getting overrun at times and only the resilience of our defenders got us through in certain games were Carrick and Scholes lacked the physical attributes to stem the tide, like the Arsenal match at OT when the introduction of Anderson gave us a foothold in the game. Both good players but their strengths and weakneses are to similar to be a pairing and they dont provide the necessary balance needed in some matches.
Hargo has shown in the run in that he is going to be a very valuable member of our team with the ability to play at a high level in a number of different positions and dont rule out the possibility of him making a central mid berth his own next season coz I think when he played there earlier this season he lacked the fitness and sharpness to really stamp his authority on games which led to some unjust criticism from some quarters.
Any combo from Andy, Carrick or Hargreaves would be my preffered option next season with the legendary Paul Scholes making fewer starts and a few impact appearances from the bench.
All in all, reasons to be cheerful.
PS, I also agree with DRed that Andys best games for me this season were when he played in the middle as part of a pairing and not when he was the point man in a trio, so his comparison with Keano might not be far wrong.
May 26th, 2008 at 18:25
As a matter of interest, refering back to some earlier post about the need for a good def mid player, hearing the word coming out of Old Trafford we mite just already have wat wer looking for in the shape of the young brazilian Possebon. I myself havent seen him play at all but as far as i know he is held in very high regard by Brain Mc Clare.
May 26th, 2008 at 18:36
DRed, havent seen a lot of Possebon, but what I have seen impressed me greatly, good first touch, very comfortable on the ball with a good eye for a pass, looks a goodun.
May 26th, 2008 at 18:50
Fred The Red- Glad to hear wat i heard bout Possebon is true. So if everything goes to plan in a few years down the line we could have two top quailty brazilian mid fielders bossing the midfield!!!
May 26th, 2008 at 18:53
The midfield ratings for me are the easiest to do because I think they are also the easiest to gauge.
SCHOLES; Rebounded brilliantly from a very slow start and then a period of injury to end the season in spectacular style. The Ginger Ninja still commands great respect and is probably the most tidy midfielder in the world and one of the smartest as well. He has noticeably lost pace and the quickness from a stop position that he used to have. Gone are the days of numerous runs into the 18 yard box. Today he plays much further back and is best at controlling the tempo of the game as well as maintaining possession for the team. For me he has lost a lot of his adventurous play. Fewer and fewer long passes or through balls down field. Very few long range kicks like the one he destroyed Barca with. In fact he doesn’t shoot much at all anymore and it has become a glaring weakness in United’s midfield game. No goals from the central midfielders is a concern. Still he is a leader, a winner and a proud and loyal servant to the club. My biggest knock on him is really not a negative or weakness as much as it is a pet peeve of mine due to impatience. He makes far too many back passes in my opinion. A little more daring would be nice, especially in the attacking zone. 7/10
CARRICK; Like the weather in England and in my native Canada, Carrick is hot and cold. When he’s cold he is freezing cold and when he is hot there are few that can contain his beautiful arsenal (sorry for that word) of forward passes that can dissect defenses. In the present setup where our wingers are our goal scorers and play makers both he and Scholes have taken up a much deeper position and play more of a defensive midfielder position. Carrick has become a pretty decent marker and he is also a very strong tackler. I think his defensive abilities are very underrated but are beginning to get notice. He needs to attack more and his shot although not bad tends to go directly to a goalkeeper. He needs to start aiming his shots better. His pace is also a bit of an issue as he is slow but fortunately that hasn’t hurt him in our team defensive scheme. I still would prefer a more dynamic talent in his position but that isn’t a knock on him. It’s just that there are players out there that are far better and more attack minded than him. 7/10
HARGREAVES; I’ll try to show no bias but Hargreaves is my favorite United player. Not because he is Canadian, but because I love to watch him play and marvel at his all round game and above all his adaptability and composure. He is one cool cookie and the ultimate team player. He will do any job Fergie asks of him and he does well. His passing is very good, his crossing is excellent, his free kicks are fantastic, his pace is great and his marking ability is second to none. He was a fantastic signing. Hopefully we won’t see problems with his knee derail as many games from future seasons as it did this year. In my opinion we would have had an easier walk to the title if he hadn’t missed so many games. Again his presence on the pitch and constant pestering of attackers is becoming legendary for United as well as England. He’s so good I could see him being our permanent CDM as well as RWB or RMF. He’s that bloody good and versatile. He’s also loved and respected by his teammates and Fergie. His leadership skills would make him a great choice for captain if it were not for Ferdinand and perhaps Rooney playing for both teams as well. He’s also a fantastic big game player. And if healthy he has room to get better now that he is totally familiar with the Prem. There was never a question about the CL. 8.5/10
MR ANDERSON; I honestly like this kid despite the fact that many think I don’t. I just don’t think he is ready for prime time and it seems Fergie finally agreed with me in the last dozen or so games where Anderson never started and rarely even played. The lad was tired and not used to the demanding physical and mental rigors of playing in the Prem as well as the CL. He will grow and mature and his overall game will get better but he has many glaring weaknesses where massive improvement is needed. His shooting skill or lack of is absolutely woeful bordering on comical. More a case of poor composure and poor technique under pressure. I have a feeling he nails them in training. Quite often his head is down when he is running and dribbling with the ball. His pace and desire are fantastic but he needs to learn to change the pace in games once in a while as he quite often out runs or does too much and confuses the players around him. His passing is good but I still think he needs more work. His vision and imagination comes and goes as does his consistency. He is young with a bright future but for me the jury is still out on him. I don’t see the skill set that was advertized at the time of his purchase. Unfairly he was being compared to Ronaldinho and I think that comparison really tainted a lot of minds on what to expect from him. For me he is a much better DMfer than he is an AMF. He runs his socks off and has great pace and dogged determination. He’s also very good at marking and tackling as well, but he is a lousy dancer. His post game celebrations have no rhythm.
I will need to see a major improvement this campaign before I am totally sold on the lad. Still, his attitude is good and his heart is in the right place. He looks happy to be a United player and hopefully time will prove to all of us that he is a diamond. 6.5/10
FLETCHER; What this boy lacks in skill he makes up with in heart, desire and a team attitude and sacrifice second to none. He bleeds United red and he always shows up when called upon. He has also shown the ability to come up big in titanic clashes, most notably Chelsea.
He is a good passer and he can score the odd goal. His heading is probably third on the team to Ronaldo and Vidic and for me he seems to have improved his quickness and pace. He is the quintessential role player with John O’Shea. Never complains sitting on the bench and rarely disappoints when called upon to play. A Scottish international would want to start yet he is content to stay with United and win trophies and be part of the best team in Europe. His heart is in the right place even if it is a detriment to his ability to play more games. I love the lad and I for one am thankful we have a player like this. A vital cog in our engine with room to continue to improve and push for more playing time. Lets put it this way, when he is in the lineup these days, I don’t panic. 7/10
May 26th, 2008 at 19:12
Hmmm probably the most difficult part of the team to rate this year. None of the midfielders really held their form over the course of the year and there was great inconsistency in terms of composition in the middle of the park. That’s not to say there weren’t some outstanding contributions over the course of the year, Scholes against Pompey, Carrick home and away to Newcastle, Anderson and Fletcher against Arsenal and Hargreaves at home to Roma all spring to mind. Still the sheer consistent level of performance shown by the Carrick/Scholes axis last season was missed. Personally I would like to see a 3 man midfield of Carrick flanked by Hargreaves and Anderson to be tried more often next season but who knows what we will get
Scholes – Agree with RR on this one. Like Giggs his appearances will need to be carefully selected next season to get the most out of him. 7
Carrick – Slightly harsh rating I feel. I have been a big Carrick supporter from day one and may well be accused of bias but I am going to give him an extra point. Difficult start to the season but from January to March/April he was excellent. Not everybody’s cup of tea as he doesn’t really grab the game by the scruff of the neck nor does he do the spectacular, eye catching things. What he does do is keep this team ticking over by always being available for a pass and with quick, accurate distribution. It is no coincidence that we have three major trophies since his arrival and that Spurs have went backwards. 8
Anderson – an excellent if somewhat surprising debut season. His score is boosted slightly by him having to settle into a new league and position this year. The lad still has a hell of a lot to learn though in terms of midfield craft if he wants to continue to progress. A solid 7.5
Fletcher – agree with RR’s points. Nikos pointed out what he is like on his day but there are still too many displays like West Ham away mxed in there. When you do expect him to dominate he invariably comes up short. A solid squad player but nothing more. 6.5
Hargreaves – the hardest of all to rate. I am a huge fan of the lad but over the course of the season he has underwhelmed me. What I was expecting was United’s version of Essien, a player capable of turning the game with sheer drive. And whilst he never really let us down, he was well short of the lofty standards I had expected. Turned his form around drastically from the CL QF on and his performance against Roma at home showed what he was really capable of. He will need to carry that form into next season if he is to become a fixture in CM. I am going to stick with RR’s score here, however if it wasn’t for the knee troubles I would have knocked off half, if not a whole, point. 7.5
May 26th, 2008 at 19:14
The big issue next season will be which central midfield pairing to go for. As I mentioned Scholes and Carrick has been the preferred pairing for the last couple of years and it has worked fairly well. But with Scholes being phased out we need to go for a new pairing.
I am guessing it will be Hargreaves and Carrick with Anderson making appearances when Hargreaves is called to play in other positions or when Hargreaves gets injured.
Hargreaves and Anderson is very very solid but we would miss Carrick’s passes and while I think Anderson will be a very good passer one day he is not at Carrick’s level.
May 26th, 2008 at 19:42
Of all the players who can probably move into the kind of role the Scholes played against Liverpool (the one where One Mascherano kept trying to tell the ref he had to pee badly using the only two words of Eenglees he knew, ‘F#ck’ and ‘Off’- I think that was a magnificient performance from the Redhead, one of his quiet best) I believe the top of the list would be Rooney and then Fletcher. Fletch because he has similar qualities as Scholes, has a good foot and can look to make himself the silent assasin if he improves his vision and passing. And those just get better with age. He ain’t got the legs to outrun too many players, nor the physical presence to hold off a charging Ballack, but he’s got a good height and he could potentially provide that bit of aerial prowess United desperately lack. And of course, as I mentioned earlier, the passing has got to improve, both short and long.
Rooney, on the other hand, is almost there on all fronts, including the temperament and the ‘orrible tackling…
May 26th, 2008 at 19:54
Groggy, not very often I disagree with you mate but on Anderson I think your completely wrong.
A blind man on a galloping horse would be able to see how talented this kid is. Yes He needs to work on a few things but all the raw ingredients are there, and I for one cant wait to see this kid progess over the next couple of years. I dont think ive been as excited over a young United player ever, and that includes Mr Ronaldo.
May 26th, 2008 at 20:22
Fred; After thinking about Anderson for a long while, I think Grognard(and JB previously) is right, he is being hyped up because of his commitment and energy, qualities that we typically love to see here.
What I first thought was dislike on Grognard’s part, is actually just cautiousness. Now, unlike most people I never fell for the ‘Anderson is the next Ronaldinho’ hype, because I just thought it was lazy journalism making the link that they both come from Gremio, so I am not disappointed as he is.
But then again, I am not completely in agreement with the general consensus of the fans’ view of him. Sure he played brilliantly in some big games, but he struggled to adapt to the pace of the Champions League and his major flaw is definitely how he rushes things. This can be done from the wing, trying to do everything by yourself, but it can’t be done in the middle, there are just too many men.
So I am neither caught up in the euphoria surrounding him, nor am I distraught at the fact that he is something completely different to what I had imagined him to be. I’m perfectly happy,and if he does fix his flaws he can become great.
to add to the confusion, today I read Tim Vickery’s column, and a Manchester United fan asked about him, this is what he said:
“On the international front, he’s in the Brazil squad, but his bid for a first-team place could be held up by a doubt about where he should play.
In Brazil he was an attacking midfielder, either wide left or cutting across from the right.
Brazilian coaches were stunned when United started picking him in central midfield, with plenty of defensive duties.
Time will tell if this is adding new things to his game, or forcing him to sacrifice too much of what he does best. “
So he did start off as a Ronaldinho type player, then was converted into a more free role at Porto, and now he is a midfield general, so to speak. I am at a loss about what to think of him.
May 26th, 2008 at 20:52
Conor, I hear you mate and if you read my original post you will see that I also have expressed a concern about were we are going to play him, I personally think that his performances in a more traditional central midfield role have been his best and to me he does not seem like a round peg in a square hole in there, he has all the attributes to be a great central midfielder and maybe the Brazilian coaches that are shocked at this have just failed to see that side of his game.
Having watched some of his old highlights from Portugual and Brazil I definately think that there is a more attack minded and expansive side to his game that we seen only flashes of this year that I think in time will blossom and come out the more games he gets under his belt.
What i would hate to see is SAF switching him about from one position to another, he needs to decide what position he wants him to play in and stick to it until the boy finds his feet.
I can understand you and Groggy being cautious but let me tell you this, anybody that knows me personally would tell that Im a hard man to please when it comes to football and the last thing I try to do is get carried away with empty hype from over zealous supporters but Im just saying what Im seeing, and what Im seeing is a seriously talented young rough diamond hopefully about to get his final polish before SAF retires.
I could be wrong about him, but I like what I see so far.
May 26th, 2008 at 21:05
this hasn’t been scholes most prolific season but he pitched in and played with a lot of heart and would rate him a 7.
Carrick has been our best midfielder this year..whether he plays well or not his presence in the team brings stability and confidence to our game…and add the fact he is the only player who can seemingly work successfully with any of our midfielders is an asset that has helped us especially during times of injury…8
Anderson came really to the fore this season but ran out of gas towards the end..he has youth and talent and with experience he can easily become one definitely for the future 7.5
Hargreaves..started out causing worry with the ever present injury problem..but came through and showed his versatility and steel in some important games…great start for a great player 7.5
Fletcher..didn’t start enough but played well when called upon..played important games and showed his mettle a 7.0
May 26th, 2008 at 21:12
Need to bring grognard down to earth regarding hargreaves -
His passing is good. His crossing is good. He is very athletic. He can be our permanent defensive midfielder.
BUT
He is not calm on the ball. He is not a great passer. He will never be permanent right back. He will never be permanent right midfielder.
May 26th, 2008 at 21:21
Grognard: It is interesting, that given Hargreaves so comprehensively out performed his fellow midfielders under your scoring, that he failed to nail down a starting spot in his preferred position.
May 26th, 2008 at 21:29
Fred; Honestly I do believe that you and many others are judging Anderson too high based on his hard work and hustle. But please, don’t tell me that the boy has given us a clinic of skills that makes him another Ronaldo in the making. I’m sorry but I don’t see it. I think he has talent and his greatest talent is how well he can dribble the ball at high speed but his faults are numerous. Head down, poor finishing, poor decision making on offense and a lack of being able to slow himself down and dictate the pace with more intelligence. To many of you out there get all warm and fuzzy when you see a player work hard and run at full speed all the time. There is much more to a game. To me that kind of quality is just so blue collar. Perhaps it’s my preference for the Continental game over the boring old school British game that turns me off a bit. I am not a proponent of expending energy wastefully and trying to think and do too many things at high speed. Anderson does this all the time. Sometimes he needs to slow down, look up and make a telling pass at half speed. For all his skill, he lacks a certain amount of finesse, which is surprising for a Brazilian. That’s not to say that it isn’t in his repertoire. Part of the problem is that Fergie is probably playing him out of position because he sees the same weaknesses as I do. DMFers are expected to run their socks off and tackle as well as dribble out of trouble. These are Anderson’s key assets right now.
It’s important to note that he is very young and he will develop himself naturally as well with the wise tutelage of Fergie and Queiroz. Right now he is still a project and a very good one at that. But I’m sorry, I don’t get seduced by his present contributions. Some of you find pleasure far too easily. I have high standards but I am fair. 6.5 is not a mark against him. It points out his age, inexperience and limited skill set right now. Like everyone else, I see potential but I am not going to grade him higher based on potential and work ethic alone. He has long road ahead of himself before I start to rave over him. And I certainly hope that day comes and sooner than expected. Believe me or not, but I am a fan of the lad. I’m just not ready to crown him king yet.
May 26th, 2008 at 21:35
Regarding Hargreaves, despite Grognard’s remark at the beginning that “he’ll avoid bias” I think he did succumb to bias. Whilst there is really no point debating about one’s rating — which is why I refrained from responding to comments about why I gave a certain rating to a player in my previous article — I too found 8.5 rather high for a player who’s played half season while an unproven youngster (who had no expectation to get going and admirably stepped into BIG shoes against BIG teams) gets a 6.5.
But that said, we do have our own reasons, and I guess we can’t really expect someone to back down on their choice of rating.
The reason I gave Anderson 7.5 was in context of expectation and result. I agree, I could have given Carrick a 7.5/ But honestly, no single midfielder stood out for me this season.
Most of Hargreaves’ eye popping displays came at RB and RW, while he did a good enough job at central midfield. Since he was bought as a central midfielder I averaged his rating to a 7.5. 8.5 is a bit too high in my book. Because, whilst he’s caught my eye, he hasn’t caught my imagination. [There's a difference.] I can see him turn out an 8/8.5 next season — I see the potential, but right now I am calling as I see it.
May 26th, 2008 at 21:46
[Grognard]
About Anderson, fair enough mate. But you don’t apply the same standards to judge Hargreaves — there’s no consistency there. Hargreaves was bought to be a DMF, he excelled as a winger and a right back. Anderson might turn out as a midfielder rather than a winger. It’s very easy to dismiss the lad, but we don’t realise his contribution this season when we were crippled with injuries late 2007. Anderson walked right in and performed. In the context of how close the season turned out to be, that period of great form alone did it for me as far as Anderson is concerned. I am not so easily seduced by little stepovers. [as an aside: I still am not seduced by Ronaldo's stepovers. It's good if he beats two players. Everything else is basically bells and whistles.] Anderson’s influence against Arsenal was as crucial as Hargreaves’ free kick.
He’s a kid, but he punched well above his weight in his very first season. That’s the context I am talking about. He did better than Nani, and has shown more bottle. This is why I rated him a 7.5 (even 7 is agreeable by me).
May 26th, 2008 at 21:47
Have you heard the new Hargreaves chant that was being sung at the CL final?
To the tune of #I love you baby, and if it’s quite alright#
Oooooh Owen Hargreaves, you are the love of my life,
Oooooh Owen Hargreaves, I’ll let you shag my wife,
Oooooh Owen Hargreaves, I want curly hair too.
May 26th, 2008 at 22:31
Grognard, let me assure you that Im not judging him on his hussle and hard work and I never said that he has shown that he is another Ronaldo in the making coz they are completley different players so please mate dont read dodgy comparisons into my words, what I said was I was more excited about Andy than I was with Ronaldo when he arrived in his first season. Some of the issues you raise about him like running with his head down and doing things to quickly are valid, just like Ronaldo was when he arrived,and also Messi to a ceartain degree still, but these are common faults in young players that should improve in time. Most of the faults that you mention are not connected to a lack of ability but in a lack of mental maturity and I am still confident that he will add this to his game, and if he does he could be a bit special.
Groggy, I respect your opinion my friend, but sometimes I think you fail to realise that there are people out there that have different opinions than you that arent stupid and sometimes you come across very patronizing.
I dont form my opinions on hype or blind loyalty, I just state things as I see them and I see in in Andy a very talented player who has the ability to go far, but like I said before I could be wrong, time will tell.
Hope I havent offended you in anything I just said, coz like I said earlier I respect your opinion and always look forward to reading your posts but on this topic we will have to agree to disagree.
Respect
May 26th, 2008 at 23:01
RedRanter, I agree with everything you just said about Anderson, the kid stepped into the breech in some massive games for us this year and not only did he he do a job for us,He excelled. At the Emirates he shackled arguably the best player in the league at the time and at Anfield he totally dominated Gerrard and then just to confirm that it wasnt a fluke he done the same at OT in the fa cup and especially in the league when he turned the game game against Arsenal in our favour when SAF brought him on.
Many an experienced player has wilted in these games so it baffles me how people can fail to be pleased with his contribution this year.
May 26th, 2008 at 23:13
I am still confused by this notion that Anderson dominated Fabregas and Gerrard. The game at the Emirates was a fairly open and even game and unless my memory is failing me, we were pinned back for most of the game at Anfield. Anderson had good games in both but can we please take the red tinted specs off and stop with this ‘dominated’ and ‘kept xx in his pocket’ crap.
May 26th, 2008 at 23:43
Red Ranter; While Hargreaves never caught your imagination, he did capture mine. I graded him based on the games he played and how good he was in them. Perhaps your expectations of him were too high. And in regards to Anderson, yes he more than exceeded what was expected of him, but he was not better than Scholes or Carrick so therefore I am not going to rate him as high.
And I do take minor offense at being called bias when I made a point of saying I wasn’t. Unlike you, I have watched Hargreaves since he arrived in Europe therefore, I feel I am a better judge of what he has done, what he is doing and what he can do in the future. Perhaps in this instance I may actually be more in informed on the player than many of you. He did what was asked of him and he did it very well when healthy. Lets not forget that in many games early in his United career, he was playing with more soreness from his knee tendinitis. But some of you cannot get Roy Keane out of your heads. He’s not Roy Keane and he isn’t Michael Essien. He’s Owen Hargreaves. Accept him for what he brings to the table, not the delusional expectations of naive fans. And I’m sorry but Hargo never played RW once. He played RMF twice and RB a few times. His games as DMF were stellar if not spectacular. I do not remember him playing a poor game this season.
I also pointed out very clearly that Anderson was forced in to playing a role he was not familiar with and that he played it very well. But I also said the reason for that move was that I feel Fergie saw the same limitations and immaturity in play that I saw. Just because we were expecting 4/10 from him doesn’t mean we should be giving him 7’s and 8’s. He exceeded everyone’s expectations and for me he deserves a 6.5 and very close to 7. But for me that would be unfair to the players who got 7’s who earned them with consistency.
It’s absolutely amazing to me how much grief I receive even when I am being objective and fair. Fred, I am not condescending to anyone. But the point of this blog is to compare viewpoints and debate. All I am doing is stating my viewpoint. If you think it is putting yours down you are so wrong mate. I’m just clearly and respectfully disagreeing. What frustrates me is that many of you only take out the negative things in my comments and not the positive. Go back and read what I wrote and you will see that I agree with a lot of what people like you are saying about Anderson. I think he has a lot of potential but he is still immature and he needs to grow as a player. I even stated that the Gaffer and Queiroz would work hard to get him to improve his weak points. FOR GOD’S SAKE PEOPLE, READ BEFORE YOU CONDEMN!
I’ve stated that I believe he will turn out good and that I am a fan of the lad but instead I get vilified for being harsh and unfair. I grade according to my standard. I don’t have to conform to others and I certainly don’t need to apologize for it. Agree or disagree if you like but some of you must please refrain from calling me bias, or unfair or just plain wrong. In my heart and mind I’m not wrong and accusing me of things that aren’t true will certainly not change my thought process. RR, your ratings are fine and I respect your views but they certainly are not canon. And neither are mine. But I do feel I have a right to offer my opinion without being unfairly criticized. I don’t mind if you disagree, it’s how you disagree that gets my shorts in a knot. Accusing me of bias and double standards is just not kosher. I’m sorry. Forgive me if I think that my reputation as a bit of a shit disturber isn’t coming back to haunt me here. But very few get that kind of rebuttal from you.
I think what really gets my goat is that I see your rankings and I really don’t have a major problem with them nor do I see any bias or favoritism. Why do mine then seem to get that sentiment from you and some others. It’s because of my rep on this blog. Everybody thinks that I’m just around to cause trouble or to disagree with them. I’m not. I am not the arrogant, condescending pompous ass I may seem in writing. I am opinionated and for that I don’t apologize. Quite often I am the only one who has the guts to say what others fear to think. I just see the game differently and evaluate players differently according to my desires, wishes and my criteria.
What I also have is the guts to challenge popular beliefs if I disagree with them. That only makes me right in my mind but I see nothing wrong with that. I wasn’t captain of my debate team in high school because I was a conformist or follower. I stand on my own and grade things according to the Book of Grognard and what I see as the facts.
May 26th, 2008 at 23:56
JB, the game at the Emirates was an open game, and it was also one of the quietest that Fabregas and Hleb played up until that day and it was also a game most people thought we deserved to win, and your right Liverpool did pin us back but I know Liverpool supporters who were there that day that said that Gerrard was quiet, now surely your not going to accuse them of wearing United coloured glasses.
Given his age and experience Anderson was brilliant in both those matches and certainly outperformed both Gerrard and Fabregas in all the matches when the two sides met, but if you dont agree, no problem.
May 27th, 2008 at 0:06
Grognard; To clear things up, your reputation as a shit stirrer means nothing to many of the people here, Fred questioned your judgement but he has not been here long enough to make a judgement like that about you. It has nothing to do with you being gutsy in terms of speaking your mind, people disagree, that is just how life works.
It is fair to say that since Hargreaves came here, you have been an avid supporter of him, and so it is also fair to assume that you are slightly biased in terms of rating him. You say you judge Hargreaves purely on his performances, rather than blaming him for being injured, which seems fair enough to me, I would do the same. But then when you rated Saha, you based his rating on how little he played, because when he did play he contributed a fair bit. Let’s not start that again though.
And on the bit about not judging players on label’s such as ‘the next Roy Keane’ or ‘the next Essien’, you did hold Carrick’s ‘next Roy Keane’ label and price tag against him, and you hold Anderson’s ‘the next Ronaldinho’ tag against him too.
I don’t understand why you do take offence to being called biased, but we are all different. But when you turn things like this into a ‘it’s me against the world’ situation, you are making a mountain out of a molehill. Most people admire you for speaking your mind, but you come across as thinking they hold it against you. That’s wrong and many people would agree on this point. But if you make a controversial statement, you are always putting yourself up for some criticism.
By the way, I actually agree on your Hargreaves rating to an extent, because he won our player of the month in August, and when he played I thought he made a big difference. I don’t include injuries in criteria for judging players, it’s not their fault. However he isn’t miles ahead of his competition, I would make them all 1 grade higher, because of SAF’s inconsistencies in selection. They all performed well when given a chance and since they all had patches of form, I think it’s fair to assume that if they were given a run of games, they could have maintained some consistency. Except Anderson and Fletcher, they are too young still, both performing well in the big games.
May 27th, 2008 at 0:08
Grognard: Given that you have previously said about Hargreaves that “I thought I was seeing David Beckham with pace and defensive ability” it is hard to believe that anyone had higher expectations than that. As a ‘deluded and naive’ fan, with far less knowledge than yourself, I was judging Hargreaves with an eye on his performances for England in 2006 and in particular the first leg of the CL tie against Milan last season. In my opinion he did not even approach that level until the closing weeks of the season.
As to why you ratings are being accused of bias, it may be worth noting that you ranked your favourite player 1.5 points ahead of the closed competition in midfield. I think you will struggle to find anyone else who thinks we had a midfielder that stood that far out from the rest this season.
P.S. Given you take such offense at being called biased, perhaps you could be a tad more considerate before calling others naive, delusional or conformists.
May 27th, 2008 at 0:12
Fred: Fair enough, we will have to agree to disagree. I believe Anderson matched both Gerrard and Fabregas in those games but I think dominate is far too extreme a description. I felt Arsenal and Liverpool’s midfields were dominated in the FA and PL games at OT respectively, but more than held their own in the away games.
May 27th, 2008 at 0:13
o shea?
May 27th, 2008 at 0:30
[Grognard]
Again, you read too much into things and get wound up for no apparent reason.
I didn’t accuse you of anything. I was confused about the standards you used to measure Anderson and Hargreaves. When you give someone an 8.5 you’d expect a stand up and take notice performance. Not one, but a string of them. Which is why I nearly spilled my coffee when I saw an 8.5. Playing with soreness of knee tendinitis forced him to not give his best which is why I chopped off points. You call it as you see it don’t you? This is an overall season rating not a last-9-games rating.
Nonetheless I respected your opinions on it although I didn’t explicitly mention it.
I said clearly and I will quote these lines here:
“About Anderson, fair enough mate.” (Even though I don’t agree with your ratings)
I also said that I thought Hargreaves was rather high but said this immediately after: “But that said, we do have our own reasons, and I guess we can’t really expect someone to back down on their choice of rating.”
Both lines meant that I respected your opinions. For heavens’ sake Grognard, surely you know I don’t form opinions of commenters here. I’m sorry but I can’t accept this thing about me trying to always attack you (like anyone’s comments are going to be a threat to my life.) I don’t target you here specifically. If I do respond to your comments it’s because I find them interesting and feel like responding to.
Secondly about condescending here’s the line that I found blatantly condescending, and I suppose Fred found too:
But I’m sorry, I don’t get seduced by his present contributions. Some of you find pleasure far too easily. I have high standards but I am fair. and this:
Too many of you out there get all warm and fuzzy when you see a player work hard and run at full speed all the time.
Tell me if this is not condescending or smug. Since, you are wondering what gets people’s goat here, it’s sentences like this thrown around that makes assumptions about people that gets under many people’s skin.
I had to say this. And I won’t get into a discussion again with you if I am being misunderstood despite my efforts at making myself clear. So yes, if you think I am specifically sniping at you fine, adios. I am not responding to any of your comments anymore.
May 27th, 2008 at 0:35
[n667]
Defence
May 27th, 2008 at 0:37
Grognard, Ive never denied you the right to state your opinion or accused you of being anything but honest, my problem with you is sometimes when you are debating with people you make it sound that the other person hasnt used the logic or thought process in thier argument that you have and that somehow the reason that they dont agree with you is because they arent thinking straight. And when you say that you are in a better position than someone else to make a point, that requires you to know the person you are debating with well enough to arrive at that conclusion. I personally believe that from my experience both as a fan and player of football that I would be in a stronger position than most on this site to give an imformed opinion, but I dont really know the background of everybody on this site so to make that claim would be arrogant to say the least.
Also you have an amazing ability to overstate your opponents point like bringing up Roy Keane in your defense of Hargreaves, no one mentioned Roy Keane so why even bring him up unless you are saying that people are dissapointed in Hargo because they are blinded by how Keano used to play, no one stated that,so surely from your High School debating days you would recognise this tactic as a strawman argument.
If I have misread your attitude towards your fellow debaters then I apoligize in advance and dont fall out with me mate, we are allowed to disgree.
May 27th, 2008 at 0:41
[Grognard]
And once more, I disagreed with the logic you used to make your argument/ratings. I did not judge you, nor did I make any assumptions about your background (while you made assumptions about people getting so “seduced” by certain aspects and made that sound below your level.)
So I think I didn’t break any rules when I made my argument. Anyway, that’s in short what I thought of it. Feel free to blast me for this.
May 27th, 2008 at 0:45
Things never change, it’s just like the Riquelme debate all over again. Back to the good old days eh?
May 27th, 2008 at 0:47
Judging how the review of the midfield and attack has gone I can’t wait for the review of the defence (will this include keepers or will they be seperate?)
May 27th, 2008 at 1:28
JB, fair enough call in post 41, but when you take into consideration that the advantage is with the home team in these matches, how do you think that their midfields performed at OT compared to our midfield at Anfield and The Emirates. Only Arsenal during the first hour at OT outperformed our midfield and that was the only game of the 5 against Liverpool and Arsenal when Andy didnt start.
May 27th, 2008 at 1:41
Conor, words of wisdom indeed in post 39, I actually like Grognard, I just feel sometimes He doesnt give fellow debaters the same intellectual credit that He claims for himself.
Maybe his style of of writing just makes it seem that way but admire his honesty nonetheless.
May 27th, 2008 at 2:02
You people just kick the spirit out of me. I bloody well give up because you just don’t get it. OK I confess, I’m guilty. I’m wrong, condescending, bias, smug, etc. I surrender. And RR, sorry mate but you were sniping. Nobody gets that kind of rebuttal from you like I got. In fact, I have to think very hard to remember you ever agreeing with one of my points, ever. Sometimes many of you make me feel like I’m from fucking Mars. Like my views are so God Damned alien. It’s frustrating as hell because like all of you I like to be accepted and respected too. The fact that many do think of the game in simpler terms is not condescending, it’s true. I consider myself more than just a fan of football. I consider myself a student of the game as well. That doesn’t always make me right but then again I never thought it was condescending to generalize as to not offend specific individuals. None of you ever generalize when it comes to raining down your fury on me though.
About Hargreaves, I made a point of saying I know more about him than most of you because I doubt any of you are die hard Bayern Munich fans that have watched nearly all their games in the past 8 years. I have. Therefore I felt comfortable and more than qualified to make my points about Hargo. And to the individual who assumes I’m hypocritical about Hargo’s injury when compared to Saha, oh well, I’ll just learn to live with it because I really don’t care. When Hargo wastes four years of man Utd’s time then perhaps I can be seen as hypocrite. From where I stand I think the comparison is absurd.
What’s the point I’m alone in the wilderness here and I don’t see any allies who see my side in any damned thing I say, so what’s the point. Good day to you all. And I’m called bias. Go figure!
May 27th, 2008 at 2:03
I think both Fletcher(cue Arsenal FA cup and Roma performance) and Carrick(his passes are breathtaking) deserve more than what they got.
Can’t wait for you to review the defense, they’ve all been so spectacular this season, it would be tough grading one more than the other.
May 27th, 2008 at 3:49
“About Anderson, fair enough mate. But you don’t apply the same standards to judge Hargreaves — there’s no consistency there. Hargreaves was bought to be a DMF, he excelled as a winger and a right back. Anderson might turn out as a midfielder rather than a winger. It’s very easy to dismiss the lad, but we don’t realise his contribution this season when we were crippled with injuries late 2007. Anderson walked right in and performed. In the context of how close the season turned out to be, that period of great form alone did it for me as far as Anderson is concerned. I am not so easily seduced by little stepovers. [as an aside: I still am not seduced by Ronaldo’s stepovers. It’s good if he beats two players. Everything else is basically bells and whistles.] Anderson’s influence against Arsenal was as crucial as Hargreaves’ free kick.
He’s a kid, but he punched well above his weight in his very first season. That’s the context I am talking about. He did better than Nani, and has shown more bottle. This is why I rated him a 7.5 (even 7 is agreeable by me).”
Pefectly said RR, Agree totaly. I think Man Utd review as a team and an institution gets 10/10. Everything done with class.
May 27th, 2008 at 3:56
Well I agree with Grognard to a degree.It seems like people forget that Hargreaves played his first 3 games at a very high level as a DM before knee issues.On the official Red’s website he was voted MOM 3 out of 3 games (1 tie).Ratings are subjective and the issue is was he 1.5 better than Carrick? Perhaps not,but in my opinion he played better than Carrick in those 3 games at the DM position than Carrick did in any single game.He filled in admirably at RB and looked great on the wing with his ability to cross.He is showing a knack for the free kick and taking penalties.That said my ratings would be very similar Scholes 7.0,Carrick 6.75,Hargreaves 7.75,Anderson 7.25.If one has a problem with such a small increment as 1.5 then I’ll rate them by the quarter.I don’t get the Carrick love.There were literally 4-5 games early in the year before he was benched that you would have been hardpressed to know he was even on the pitch.He did play much better in the second half of the season.But to go from invisible to quite good is not that impressive,and speaks to why he never seems to get a call up to the national team.
May 27th, 2008 at 4:48
I have not seen Hargreaves play much for Bayern or England but from what I have seen he is made for a right midfielder/right wingback position: pace, good tackling, energy, running, crossing, heading etc.
Anderson excites me because I sense that he has just been filling a role this season and has had the shackles on. I believe as well as his obvious defensive qualities we will soon see his excellent passing range (I remember earlier in the season seeing a few long passes that even Carrick would be proud of), his acceleration, his shooting (Im sure his shooting this season was just a combination of nerves and trying too hard), and while his decision making and positioning is not great he still shows remarkable intelligence for a 19 year old and as he matures he will start dictating play from midfield and pulling the strings.
Forget Keane and Scholes replacement ideas….this boy could be the most complete central midfielder we’ve had since Bryan Robson.
May 27th, 2008 at 7:37
Sir Alex Ferguson wants to spend his £50m summer transfer budget within the next fortnight, with Micah Richards and Sevilla’s Brazilian duo Luis Fabiano and Daniel Alves top of his wish-list. (Daily Mirror)
Why o’Why Fabiano and Alves????????? Get a proper proven goal scorer. Ive seen quite a few Sevilla matches and niether are good enough. Alves is just a Right Winger who likes playing at right back because he gets to skip past a few more. He isnt defensive enough.
May 27th, 2008 at 7:50
SHANNON; In todays game very few players ever play just one position or role in a season. I can’t stop and judge Hargo on the fact he played different positions. He’s marked down as a midfielder and I graded his play based on his total contribution, even if that meant he played a few games at RB.
UTSAV; I totally agree mate. Fabiano is woefully overrated by Fergie. In this scenario I would prefer Manucho and Welbeck. Alves is a world class talent but I don’t feel his heart is with playing for us and I don’t understand the desire to go after players who don’t openly love, admire and want to play for United. And you are right, he will be a problem for us defensively. Huntelaar and Richards are admirers of the team and I think they would find contentment and success with United. Alves will want to bolt to either Madrid or Barca in a year or two and so will Fabiano despite the fact he will be sitting on the bench after the first ten games due to his one lone goal for us. The guy is a bum. DON’T DO IT FERGIE!
SlappyJones; Thanks for the support mate. At least somebody has a good memory and gets it. Excellent observation on Carrick too. That’s why he gets a 7 from me rather than the consensus which seems to be an 8. By the way, love the name.
May 27th, 2008 at 8:39
RE: Utsav and Grognard:
At first, I reacted the same way as you did about Alves. He’s a right back with suspect defensive qualities. Then I remembered that at the start of last season, Fergie played Evra at left wing in front of Silvestre at left back, before Silvestre’s knee let him down. Thus, there could be a possibility that Fergie is interested in Alves because he gives us an option at right WING with his speed and attacking ability. As you can probably see by now, Fergie prefers players who are generally more versatile.
With respect to Alves’ character, in the latest Man Utd magazine, Fergie has said that he only brings in players that can fit into the dressing room at OT with the desire to win. That’s why we have such a good atmosphere. I can only say that I trust Fergie to also make a thorough assessment over Alves’ character before he makes a move to sign him.
Again, this is purely speculative and strictly my opinion.
May 27th, 2008 at 8:50
Grognard; The ratings are decided on this year’s performances alone, so having watched Hargreaves previously gives you no added advantage than any of us. The same thing for Saha, it is judged on this season alone and not on his previous seasons. I never called you a hypocrite, you just made that connection.
I’m glad you think of yourself as such a great student of football, you do seem to have a great amount of football knowledge, but don’t just assume that we aren’t all students of football. That is a very, very unnecessary thing to say. And why do you get so wound up over one thing that Red Ranter says? Really, I couldn’t care less about being accepted here, you seem to be overly desperate to have people like you here. Let me remind you, this is the internet, chances are if we all lived in the same city and never had the internet we would never even want to socialise with each other. We all come from different backgrounds, so keep your assumptions to yourself.
And now you come out as the person who seems to be victimised by all these mean, mean men
. You use sarcasm to avoid having to answer people about how you showed bias, how you were condescending and how you were smug. Fred didn’t even get an apology, and if RR and Fred both seen it as condescending, you would have to take their word for it rather than being stubborn.
May 27th, 2008 at 9:07
@Redd75
Evra did bring another dimension to our attack while fulfilling his defensive duties okay! Now my problem is: Can we afford to have 2 wing backs who dart forward. Brown thought and behaved like a center back and hence good defensive capabilities. I cant even imagine the pressure on Rio and Vida if both the Wing Backs are caught out of position upfront.
As far as Fabiano: NOOOOOOOOOOO Way… I think Fergie wants a decently cheap striker because he wants to splurge on Richards and a midfielder
May 27th, 2008 at 9:24
Utsav, what I meant was that Alves could be brought in to play as a right winger in front of Wes Brown or whoever is playing right back. At the start of the season, Evra was playing left wing in front of Silvestre at left back.
May 27th, 2008 at 9:37
One way to accomodate alves would be to play with two defensive mids (so surely a 4-3-3 kind of formation). In any case OH, Carrick & Fletcher are all defensive mids only. They dont have the attacking mentality of a Lampard or Gerrard. Prob next year we can play with very attacking 4-3-3 kind of system with 3 central mids (two of them being defensive role) so that fullbacks can dart forward. thats how Brazil play and thats how Barca play.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:07
jos, brazil aren’t what they use to be, and didnt we beat barca with a 4-4-2? and didnt we win the CL with a player who has “no attacking mentality” on the wing?
May 27th, 2008 at 10:08
I hate to say it but Carrick once again leaves me in dismay. He can play, i wouldnt have beleived it unless i saw it, but i did and i do. But his final was shocking. He needs to step up and dominate a string of games. He can scrap, he can play some delicious balls but he can also be completely invisible. I dont know what to say about him. but i feel a rating of 7 may be slightly high. Maybe something like 6.5, just to highlight the spread of his peformances, from sensational to crap. Consistency is what won us the PL, and players need to be consistent in performances. I completely agree with the other ratings. OH for me was one of our top players this season. Only outshone by the performance of CR7 and the rightful captain of England, Rio.
Sorry to once again mention this recycled Carrick topic, but just thought in review it had to be mentioned.
May 27th, 2008 at 11:26
dan
All the people here are basically fools to be clamoring for big name signings…
you are so right. we have won the double and with great set of 24 or so players so we need nobody (forget that neville & giggs & scholes are past their sell-by date)! we also totally outclassed chelsea (both in league and CL) and the likes of Arsenal and Liverpool in the league (esp in the midfield). We are so strong that even if rooney, tevez and ronaldo dont play/score we will beat the other team by 10 goals… We dont need nobody
May 27th, 2008 at 11:46
Jos; we won the league because of Ronaldo. I know Manchester United > Ronaldo but it still doesn’t change the fact that we can’t be expecting Ronaldo to score 40 goals every season. Say he scores 30, we probably would have won nothing. There is a fine line between success and failure, constant improvement keeps us just on the right side of the line.