Apr 18
Manchester United confirm new contracts for Brown, Ferdinand and Carrick
Good news for United - Brown’s contract wrangle has been finally sorted out (I’m betting that United gave in a little to keep Brown onboard), Rio’s new 5 year contract has been finalised and Carrick’s got himself a new long-term contract as well.
Things could get better, I suppose. Fabregas could go to Barcelona, or Roman could go back to Russia, or Benitez to Madrid. But in terms of how things are at United - they’re great, but there’s still a couple of things to sort out:
1) Patrice Evra’s contract - hopefully this doesn’t go the way Heinze’s deal went because the last thing we need is to have a vital cog of the defense walk out because of contractual issues.
2) New striker - I know Fergie’s said that that’s the position they’re looking to strengthen over the summer but some early moves, like last summer, would be nice. What would be even nicer is if they asked me for advice, but that’s a separate story.
3) Wrapping up the season in the next 2 weeks - and no one has more experience in ‘closing the deal’ as Fergie does, so fingers (and other body apendages) crossed and hoping.
Related items from Red Rants:- Do you like Rio Ferdinand?
- The Rio Ferdinand Situation
- Boro 2-2 Man Utd: Alves Breaks United Momentum
- Manchester United vs West Ham: Preview
- Blackburn v Man Utd: Preview
Tags: Manchester United News
April 18th, 2008 at 13:18
ahmed, i dont remember fergie saying he needs to buy a striker, i remember him saying that he needs to stock up on a position but not naming it. if we where to buy in the summer, i would rather buy cover for left back and another winger, thats about it.
April 18th, 2008 at 13:23
May be worthwhile to have a look at giving Ronaldo a new deal as well - if there’s any one who deserves a raise, it’s him
April 18th, 2008 at 13:23
Hi everyone. It is my first comment here. I have to say it’s the best United blog in the net. You’re doing a great job, congrats for that. I am reading you regularly. In Poland we have the Man United blog too and your notes are inspiring, at least for me.
And now about the news.
At the start I’d say I am a bit suprised with that:
Things could get better (…) Benitez to Madrid.
He has not even draw with us in the league. We always beat his team in the EPL, they did well once in the FA Cup, when Smudge broke his leg and that’s all. Keep Rafa at L’pool!
Finally Brown has taken a new contract and Fergie is probably not going to buy a new RB. Now Evra should be a priority for the board. Best left back in the league, imo. We can’t let him go. Showed how quality player he is many times. Great appearances against strong teams like Arsenal. Just look on his performance against the Gunners at Emirates. He was brilliant.
For sure, we will not get Benzema in the summer, and I am not sure about Berbatov. Berbatov is one of the best strikers in the league, but his price would be very, very high. Amauri is a good one, but he’s almost at Juventus. SAF said he want to buy young players, so the Brazilian is too old. Maybe Danny Welback will make his debut next season? Hope Manucho will get the work permit.
Cheers.
April 18th, 2008 at 13:29
HA! Another winger? How many do we need? Fergie said that he is short of options in one position. And most people are guessing that position is attack given that we have only had two strikers all season. At left back, we have three natural players so no need to improve there either…
Ahmed, he cannot possibly wrap up the season in the next two weeks given that the Champions League final is in May
April 18th, 2008 at 13:34
yea because silvestre and o’shea are so reliable at left back, we dont NEED a winger but it would be better if we had one so that when we play ronaldo upfront as we do often we can play park and nani on the wings and have substitute ready if needed(i dont put giggs in that category anymore), or we can buy a winger better then park and put him on then bench but really park is good enough. its just some extra cover in the position.
April 18th, 2008 at 13:34
I’m glad to hear that Brown’s staying. The goal against ‘Pool was well worth the compromise
April 18th, 2008 at 13:51
right-back: nev, wes, hargo, fletch, pique
left-back: Evra, Silvestre, O’Shea
Wingers: Giggs, Nani, Ronaldo, Park, Fletcher, Rooney, Hargreaves - bunch of players who can play there (and I’m not counting Eagles, who’s a half-decent backup player).
strikers: Roo, Tev, Saha, Manucho, ron, dong
depending on how you rate these players, united are short in any one of these four categories. Personally I think if we get a striker who can cover on the wings if necessary, we’re set. We have enough cover across the back four, and if Saha was reliable then we wouldn’t need a striker either.
April 18th, 2008 at 13:53
oh, btw, i forgot to add welbeck in the strikers list, and he can play on the wings as well.
April 18th, 2008 at 14:07
There is a HUGE difference between playing on the wings and an out and out Winger. I would never dream of calling Fletcher a winger, and with his current pace, Giggsy is no longer a Winger either. If Fergie is going to play 1 up front, then I feel we could use another OUT AND OUT winger. If not, then I think our current crop will do just fine.
April 18th, 2008 at 14:56
What do you mean things could be better if benitez went to madrid? benitez must stay at liverpool at all cost…hahaha.
April 18th, 2008 at 15:25
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/liverpool/article3768457.ece
NOW THAT’S A HIT. According to Times tor-bab were bought on bank loan. If they dont pay the loan debt they ll be forced to sell them or the players’ “card” will distrained by the bank.
Bring in Torres!!!!
Something I was never going to say
April 18th, 2008 at 15:25
To all of you that want Torres as a United striker in the future: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/liverpool/article3768457.ece
April 18th, 2008 at 16:02
I wouldn’t bet on Livepool losing Torres over failure to pay a loan especially not to us. From the money they will earn in Champions League revenue alone the loans will be repaid so I wouldn’t pay too much attention. The only credibility given to the story is that it is printed in the Times and not the Tabloids.
April 18th, 2008 at 17:22
looks like someone’s gonna get banned
[Barca_rules] We are all constructive and reasonable people here, well most of the time anyway…Go do ur thing on ur blog.
Dammmmnnnnnnn, will so LOVE to just stick it to u guys when we visit ur Camp Nou!!! Thanks Barca_rules, u got me all fired up!
April 18th, 2008 at 17:37
Delighted to see the three re-up, especially Brown, as he’s filled in excellently while Neville’s been out.
In other news guess who’s injured again? That’s right Mr. Glass Saha is injured again after training….
April 18th, 2008 at 17:46
Why not give Ronaldo a forever contract like Raul Guti and Ruud have in Madrid?
April 18th, 2008 at 17:58
Welcome aboard McLaren and look forward to conversing as well as debating with you.
Great news about United signing Brown, Carrick and especially Rio. Brown is not one of my favorites but he is certainly far from being an embarrassment. He also allows us to spend the money that would have gone to find his replacement on a striker….I hope. Next on the new contract list from what i have heard are indeed Evra and Ronaldo. If they can resign Evra that would be fantastic. If they can extend Ronny’s contract I will be over the moon. I am just a little sick and tired of reading about those Spanish jackals in Madrid wanting to sign him up. It’s very disturbing even if it is bullshit.
As for Torres and this Liverpool financial fiasco, I hope the Scousers go bankrupt. That team is playing with fire under the so called ownership of those two American pretenders. I cannot for the life of me understand how one of the greatest and most prestigious clubs in English football history could allow itself into such an unstable ownership. Yes the Glazers are in debt too but the structure of their deal to purchase United is so much different and they haven’t got equal partners to fight with. To borrow money to buy a player is ludicrous considering how much in debt they already were in. The fact that the transfer was allowed to go through when teams with their own money were ready to buy Torres is just absurd. It will be more absurd after Rafa walks out at season’s end and Torres demands a transfer because of it. Perhaps United should wait for all that fallout and buy the Spaniard then.
April 18th, 2008 at 18:16
Well that really would be something, signing Rio, Evra, Brown, Carrick and Ronaldo all to long term deals and then signing Torres to top it all off, would be a near perfect summer for me
. However I think this is being blown out of proportion just because it was reported on the times and because Liverpool are in a ‘crisis’. It is absurd that any football team would borrow money to directly buy a player, and I doubt that is actually what was done, so they may be in debt but they won’t have to sell Torres and Babel, maybe just a few fringe players.
Dan; Ronaldo has probably only played up front about 2 or 3 times this season, he may be given a free role in nearly every match other than the big games and he may become the focal point in our attack when we are playing a 4-3-3 sometimes but he is a winger and he will not be turned into a striker, he does his best work running at players from deep or the wings and so playing with his back to goal all the time will not suit him and will not make him happy. He’s not like Rooney i.e. he won’t just play wherever SAF tells him to, he goes where he wants most of the time.
April 18th, 2008 at 18:33
im not denying that he’s a better winger then striker, but we have played him upfront much more then 3 times this season, leaving us a winger short most of the time. how many times this season have you seen ronaldo in the centre then rooney on the left this season, sometimes its rooney and giggs, sometimes its rooney and park. what im saying is if we buy a winger he can come on in those situations(like now for instances where nani is injured and we play park and giggs on the wings sometimes) in these types of situations its good to have a reliable back up, sort of like fletcher i guess.
April 18th, 2008 at 18:34
Well put Conor. I totally agree with you 110%.
April 18th, 2008 at 18:59
I never really excelled at math, but if we win against Blackburn and chelsea the tutor is clinched right?
April 18th, 2008 at 19:06
Avid reader, 1st time post..
To tell the truth guys, I wouldnt like it if we buy Torres.. We’ve tried that before, and he keeps rejecting us.. So he’s a scouser at heart, and you know how friendly we are with the ‘pool (sarcasm intended), not saying he’s no good, he’s a great player, but a scouse at best, so no thank you Mr. Torres..
Good for the trio to get the contracts that they want,
We need a new striker though.. Lets just see what SAF has up his sleeve..
Cheers guys =)
April 18th, 2008 at 19:41
Park no.1 fan; I get your point which actually makes a lot of sense, but I’m sure of he came to us and he played in the theatre of dreams with the crowd completely behind him, and then just think of the amount of chances he would get, he would love it here, we could convert him
. Dan how come you think we don’t need another striker though? I mean if we have 4 players(Park, Nani, Giggs and Ronaldo, all experienced and capable) competing for 2 spots on the wings and then 2 experienced strikers(Rooney, Tevez) with a nobody(Saha) and two players not ready for the to level(Manucho, Welbeck, Campbell). And I know you really want to give youth a chance and everything but the three young ones just aren’t ready and we need a back-up striker now. We don’t need a winger, buying a new established winger would limit Nani’s first team appearances and that isn’t what we should be doing because he has the ability to become great. Now, if you want a back-up winger then I think that can wait a year until Giggs retires, who knows maybe he’ll come back with a bang for his last year. Then maybe we may need reinforcements for the wing if Eagles isn’t up to the task.
Grognard; Wow that must the the first time you’ve agreed with me in a while, feeling alright mate?
Johnsom33; Yes if we beat Blackburn and then beat Chelsea we will be champions, which I think is possible, but even if we beat Blakburn and draw with Chelsea we will pretty much have won it because all we will need really is a draw against West Ham or Wigan.
April 18th, 2008 at 19:52
no i classify giggs as a winger anymore, so that leaves us with 3 wingers, then when we play ronaldo upfront every so often, we have 2 wingers, all im saying is, it would be nice to 1 extra winger who is satisfied as being 3rd/4th choice, as i said, he is not NEEDED but would be better if we had him.
April 18th, 2008 at 19:58
Yes Dan, that would be a nice luxury. Still the fact is we then have 2 strikers and 3 wingers, Ronaldo plays the majority of his games as a winger, fact. He may drift about but he doesn’t play as the striker we need him to be, someone who will hold the ball up and bring others into play, someone who we can rely on to always be in the centre(not drifting about the place). And would it not be more logical to get a striker first. If we got say Gomez and someone like Park, then I would have no complaints. However people like Park, Fletcher, Brown and O’Shea don’t grow on trees you know. They are a rare breed and so if you can think of someone capable(i.e. better than Giggs) then fair play. Any ideas? And Palacios or Valencia aren’t the players we should be buying, no matter how bad you think Giggs is, they are not United quality.
April 18th, 2008 at 19:58
I don’t think Liverpool’s financing decisions are all that precarious. Its not like we aren’t heavily leveraged after the Glazer’s fiasco (I have accepted it but I thought it was some dumb cowboy shit to allow that kind of recklessness, I mean we had a beautiful system prior to those assholes) They get it right (not like Risdale) they are fine and dreams of a Torres coup out the fucking window.
Glad to see the signings I don’t really see a winger coming in unless we have a hybrid winger slash striker. Personally I’ve always thought we lost out when Ibrahimovic came on the market. I think he’s a quality player of the same level as Torres. Maybe we can look to resurrect Adriano’s career with a bit of cheek. Inter is more Argentine anyway we have a more Portugese setup these days. WE need to replace Saha is all I know fuck the bullshit. A Phillip Lahm is really quite a luxury but a good striker is necessary. Ronaldinho(maybe), Eto’o, Benzema, Ibrahimovic those are the types of Players I need. What do y’all think?
April 18th, 2008 at 20:08
I agree Abu, I don’t think Liverpools financial situation is as bad as made out to be, but the people that own the club are complete dumbasses and so they are ruining the club. Oh well, just makes it easier for us to be the most successful English team ever
. Ibrahimovic probably is on the same level as Torres, although I think Eto’o is on an even higher level. Ibrahimovic just isn’t really someone you can rely on to score the big goals in the big matches, a quality player nonetheless, a bit like Berbatov in my opinion. I’m getting mixed reports on Benzema so I don’t know what to believe about him. Ronaldinho and Adriano shouldn’t be players we are looking at any more, they were absolutely brilliant players in their prime but both were pretty much ruined by things outside of the football world. I think after tying up Brown to a new deal we have almost certainly ruled out buying Lahm or Bosingwa. If we did buy wither of them to that would be an absolute disgrace on our part and an act of disloyalty to Brown. Daniel Alves is also a great defender going forward, but he has no positional sense and would leave us very open at the back, plus he has no discipline, and he would cost too much. Not my ideal right back to be honest, not any more.
April 18th, 2008 at 20:14
I do not think we need any more midfielders in the squad. We have Carrick,Anderson,fletcher,Scholes,park Hargreaves,and Rodrigo the 18 year old midfielder we brought in January.We need a striker,right back and left back to cover evra and maybe central back to cover vidic and rio.
April 18th, 2008 at 20:26
Ebrahim; as Ahmed has already said we are pretty well stocked up in left and right back:
“right-back: nev, wes, hargo, fletch, pique
left-back: Evra, Silvestre, O’Shea”
3 players for each position is enough. Pique and Wes can cover at centre back so as long as we keep Pique(or sell him and evans stays) we are fine there. By the way all of the players you stated there are centre-mids, no-one said we need any more of those.
April 18th, 2008 at 20:39
conor, on the left back cover, we bought evra because o’shea was shite at left back, he’s not united quality at left-back(sounds familiar eh!)
on the winger thing, its nit hard to scout a player old, young or primed. can i please just stress again that im no way suggesting that a winger buy is an absolute must buy in the summer, i just it would be better to another.
April 18th, 2008 at 20:52
I’m not sure what you mean about it not being hard to scout a player old, young or primed…
Yeah O’Shea isn’t United quality at left back, but Silvestre can go a job there and Evra will play most of our games anyway. And O’Shea is pretty special, you wouldn’t find Palacios being happy to sit on the bench for his whole United career, O’Shea has been and still is. He is cover for every position and that is special, he deserves to stay at United, Palacios doesn’t deserve the chance to come to United. He isn’t good enough and he would never be willing to give his heart and soul for our team like O’Shea has if he was always on the bench. Dan you could say buying another player for any position would improve depth and provide more options could you not? You still haven’t explained why we don’t need a new striker if we only have two?
April 18th, 2008 at 20:53
this is a must read, funny as hell.
manchester city challenging for tha title
conor i dont know where you have been for the last few months then, i have said countless times we dont need a striker with reason why i feel that way, you havent said why we do need a striker by the way.
reasons why we dont need a striker:
our strike force ronaldo has scored over 70 goals this season, and 34 between them
we will have 6 strikers next season and 7 if you count ronaldo, why do we need 8 stikers. you say we should buy players like gomez, huntelaar and benzema, and you say that apart from rooney tevez saha, the rest are unproven, well hello, neither is gomez, neither is benzema and i think we can all safely assume we got of lucky with ruud with him being dutch and all.
April 18th, 2008 at 21:13
Why we need a striker, hmmm where to start… Well firstly, because we have a lack of quality players there, i.e. the only ones who will make any real contribution next season will be Tevez and Rooney. It will allow us to play a 4-3-3 more effectively as we will then have someone who suits the lone role upfront e.g. when the rest of the players have deserted him while back defending he can hold the ball up and start another one of our great counter attacks. So Rooney can have a rest once in a while, he isn’t superman and resting him once in a while would take a huge weight off his shoulders. It would give us better options so that if we are in desperate need of a goal we can change the game up and bring on a different striker. Gomez, Benzema and Huntelaar are much more proven than Manucho, Campbell and Welbeck. They have all played a full season in the top flight of a competitive league, of much higher quality than the Angolan league, the reserve league and the Championship. And we got lucky with Ruud because he is Dutch?
I’m sorry Dan, but in most peoples opinions Holland are a better team than England these days. And their youth is much better than Englands, i.e. its more of a risk trying to turn Welbeck into a world class striker than it is turning Huntelaar into one. I’m not even sure what your point was in the first place about him being Dutch 
. Swap Tevez for Torres, don’t you think we would have scored more goals? Our goals tally is brilliant this season but it can always be improved on. Last year we were top scorers with goals, this year we added Tevez in place of Saha and then made Rooney our main focal point of the attack and look what happened, we have scored less goals, and I find it unlikely that we will score 11 goals in our last 4 games. A great striker Tevez may be but he and Rooney don’t compliment each other well enough to be a top partnership, Rooney is better in behind someone. Tevez and Rooney have done well together this season at times but SAF seems to have realised that they haven’t become the partnership he would have liked.
April 18th, 2008 at 21:37
everyone knows prolific scoreers in the dutch league normally dont make it in the premier league, kuyt is a prime example of this, so is alves.
the french league is not that great anymore, it may be better then the championship, but so is the brazilian league, its not tat good.
mark hughes is a united legend and was not bought, he came from our youth, why cant we do that again? ole g was an unknown player, but look how he turned out another legend. we bought stary players before like kleberson, sebastian and forlan amongst overs and tey where all unsuccessful, what im trying to say is, it doesnt matter what background a player has they can be a flop and a success’s what ever.
if you want me to, name all the strikers you want united to sign and i’ll list their flaws…
April 18th, 2008 at 21:46
Haha ok, just for the sake of debate then; Benzema, Eto’o, Huntelaar, Villa or Gomez. And also maybe you could list Welbeck’s, Campbell’s and Manucho’s strengths?
April 18th, 2008 at 21:50
dan, are you serious? Have you been watchin the same season as i have? Is it not more obvious than the nose on your face? Most of our goals are scored from a deep position, not alot of the six yard box variety that we used to get with Ruud. Our striker force is limited,and with a serious injury, would be crippled. I dont even count mr glass anymore, its a fuckin joke, and i’m not laughin! Ronaldo is NOT a striker, as reasoned by Conor. Get a striker pls pls pls Fergie, spend the money. From what i’ve seen Huntelaar looks good and Mario Gomez, my no.1 choice is Berbatov though because he’s proven (premiership) and i think his style suits us the most. I’d love to see Manucho, Wellbeck and Campbell given a run out too . As far as scouse left overs……..thats just not gonna happen
April 18th, 2008 at 22:10
benezema:
inexperienced in the premier league
looks like a 1 hit wonder(has failed to impress after lyons dumping out the cup)
loves to drift out wide(which from my understanding is not what you want)
Eto:
past his prime
cost us to much
could only get about 3 decent years out of him at most
has never played in another country apart from spain so it would be hard for him to adapt to the premier league, and its pace of football
huntelaar
he would cost us to much
scores nice goals but gives absolute nothing in the build up, so that we mean that at times we will be playing with 1 less man
is not proven in the premier league, and could yet turn out to be the next kuyt
arsenal and ajax are kean on a partnership deal so buying one of the ajax players will be extremely hard
villa
not much flaw with him to be honest, he doesnt have height and probably cost us between 26-30 mil
gomez
i cant see any, he’ll probably come on the cheap but that doesnt mean we need him.
manucho
a big tall thing, exactly what fans have been asking for but, because he played in the angolan league, he’s not good enough
campbell, has impressed in the reserves, at belgium and more recently in the championship with his goalscoring, inexperienced in the premier league, and because he’s never played in the premier league he’s not good enough.
welbeck, impressed the best manager in the world in 1 game to earn himself promotion to the reserves, and is touted to be the next big thing out of our academy since mark hughes, but hey, what does saf know, he’s only 17, we shouldnt give him a chance to shine.
i can list all the good things about your strikers to if you want.
April 18th, 2008 at 22:21
Well that’s some fairly detailed analysis Dan, I’m impressed
I don’t agree with all of it(Villa would probably only be £25m at most, Huntelaar £15m at most) but I can understand your point of view a bit better now, but I still think we need a striker, that will not change and I think SAF will fufill my wish this summer, probably with someone of the radar though. Yes, list their strengths as well, it would be a good reference to compare prospective signings.
April 18th, 2008 at 22:42
Huntelaar may not cost as much because, I believe, his contract is fast running out. I heard reports of anything between £12 and £14 million for him. It would be a steal at that price.
April 18th, 2008 at 22:48
Huntelaar’s build up play is under-rated. I watched him play for Holland against the Republic of Ireland, and he single-handedly destroyed them with 2 goals AND 2 assists in a 4-0 victory in Dublin. One of his assists was a beautiful instinctive backheel into the path of Robben, and the other was when he was 1-on-1 and opted to pass to his teammate who was in a better position to score! This is a striker on a hat-trick, but instead opting to play in his better placed teammate rather than go for glory! This is no selfish RvN poacher we’re talking about here. Admittedly, I haven’t seen much of him at Ajax to comment on his assists and link-up play, but if it’s anything like that international match, he’s got nothing to worry about!
Regarding this blog article, I’d like to express my joy that we’ve signed up Brown, Ferdinand and Carrick. Ferdinand has come a long way from the young unpolished diamond we picked up from Leeds 6 years ago. I think many fans thought he would be like a train in the night, going as quick as he’d arrived, but he’s proved all the nay-sayers wrong by committing himself to the club for what seems like the rest of career. I can’t say this with any more certainty - make him captain NOW.
Brown is another valuable member of the squad and I’m glad he won’t be leaving on a free at the end of the season - that really would have left a bitter taste in the mouth. Brown has been Mr Reliable at right back this season and has been involved in more games than any other player. I couldn’t believe it when I heard people were getting on his back about the contract. All he wanted was to be promoted from the lower wage bracket to the middle wage bracket. It’s not as if he was looking for superstar wages. He doesn’t deserve to be in the lowest bracket because he’s a valuable member of the FIRST TEAM.
I think people under-rate Brown because they compare him to Evra too much. Evra is more of a wing back than a full back. I keep a good track of stats and one thing I always track after games is the density map showing a players average position throughout a game. Often Evra’s is much further up the pitch than Brown but this is part of our tactics. Brown effectively can form part of a back 3 with Rio and Vidic allowing Evra to bomb up the wing to support the attack. It works very well for us. There has not been a more consistent right-back than Brown in the PL this season. You’d probably have to look abroad. I hear people mentioning names like Brown, but do we really need another short-arse in the team as well as Evra, allowing opposition to rain more long balls on top of those weak positions. Having another short-arse full back effectively means we’re a man down marking-wise at set pieces as well. These are the kind of contributions that go unnoticed from Brown nay-sayers. How many times have we seen him clear the ball from opposition set-pieces? He must be 2nd only to Vidic.
April 18th, 2008 at 22:51
[Dan]
mark hughes is a united legend and was not bought, he came from our youth, why cant we do that again?
Maybe because times have changed? Because it’s not just United, it’s the same with other Premier League clubs. Even Arsenal have found this season that many of their kids were out of their depth. It’s just very difficult to expect a player who enrols in the academy to make it to the top not because it’s a club problem, but because of the lack of focus on technical skills in England in general. Which maybe why we seem to do better producing defenders than attackers.
Mind, I am talking about British youth who enrol in the academy and come through the youth system. Not the likes of Fabregas of Pique.
April 18th, 2008 at 22:53
>>I hear people mentioning names like Brown
That was supposed to read ‘I hear people mentioning names like Lahm’
Ooops.
April 18th, 2008 at 22:57
benzema
has shown he’s capable of scoring goals but might need correct guidence
eto
can probably be made a great super-sub but withh his ego, would he be happy?
huntelaar according to rr we can get him on the cheap and has shown he’s a good finisher, but so was kuyt in the dutch league
villa
can score goals, we have players that can do that
gomez
same as villa
April 18th, 2008 at 23:00
thats a fair point rr, but arsenal are different becuase they build their team around the academy, where as im basically saying we should atleast make 1 talent of our own and not buy.
April 18th, 2008 at 23:23
Dan: Eto’o a sub?!? Jesus, who exactly buys Eto’o and uses him as a sub. If we got him he would start week in week out. Also you note that lack of premiership experience is a weakness for a couple of the players yet it is an issue for every player in your list.
The difference between the likes of Eto’o/Benzema/Huntelaar/ Gomes and Welbeck/Manucho/Campbell is that one lot has proven pedigree (to differing degrees) and the other lot is completely unproven at any top level. Now if you want next seasons third and forth choice strikers to be complete shots in the dark, then more power to you. Personally I think the idea is insane. You may be able to get away with the forth choice striker like this but doing so with the third choice invites disaster. IMO if we had Anelka instead of Saha (ie a fit alternative striker) the league title would already safely be in the bag.
If the strike force next season is Rooney, Tevez, Manucho, Welbeck and Campbell then it still has the same glaring weakness as this season. A lack of proven, quality cover for Rooney. We have lost the vast majority of our points this season when Rooney has been out. Now part of the reason for this is that he is a damn good player. But another reason is the fact that his replacements this season have been Tevez (who looks out of his depth leading the line) and Saha (who never really got any kind of proper match fitness/sharpness).
April 18th, 2008 at 23:29
Phoenix Red: I used to think that Berbatov would be a great buy for us too, but when you think about it his cons kinda outweigh his pros as 1) he’s way too expensive (£30-35m) 2) he’s pushing 28 anyway 3) his attitude sucks - what will he do if the chips are down? You’re right however, when you state that he is proven in the Prem - he’s the only one of our striking targets who is actually.
Does anybody know anything about Rodrigo Palacio of Boca Juniors? He was linked with L’Arse one time, so he can’t be that bad a player…..
April 18th, 2008 at 23:36
Staying on the theme of Argie forwards, may I also suggest Lisando Lopez of FC Porto? The Mirror says Portsmouth might get this 25 year old striker for £12m, which is maybe slightly over the odds, but (from what I’ve seen of him in the Champion’s League) he’s a good player nevertheless. United quality? Possibly.
April 18th, 2008 at 23:46
Fair enough, here’s my take on things then Dan, shows how perspectives change everything.
Benzema
Scores goals out of nothing, and from all over the pitch.
Gets involved in the build-up very well, capable of creating chances for others regularly.
Makes great runs in behind i.e. stretches the defence.
Great pace.
-
Wants to go to Spain or Italy primarily.
Will be very expensive I would think.
The French League isn’t as competitive as the Premiership so it’s hard to make a fair judgement.
Said he will not be moving this summer, almost definitely.
Eto’o
Is one of the most feared strikers in the world.
Has the pace to beat any defender.
Scores goals. Proven.
Has great strikers instinct.
Involves himself in the build-up play with ease if needed to.
-
May be overpriced for someone who only has a few years left in his career.
Like Henry, may struggle to adapt to new surroundings after spending so much time in one league.
Apparent ego may cause conflict.
Huntelaar
Good value for quality.
Scores goals for Holland regularly. Should be proof enough.
Has good physical presence i.e would be able to hold up the ball well and bring others into play.
Great striking instinct.
Great in the air so would give us the long ball option, which VDS is very adept at.
-
Plays in the Eredivise. Means he could be a dud, hopefully he will turn out to be more like a Bergkamp or RVN than Kuyt(who did not have a proven track record in internationals).
Doesn’t involve himself in the build-up play much.
Wouldn’t offer as a great option in behind as most defences would be able to cope with his pace, although not slow, he isn’t quick either.
Villa
Is lightning quick and scores goals from anywhere.
Willing to move to the Premiership.
Plays in a very counter-attacking team and would suit our style well as his movement is top drawer.
Can create chances for himself and others with good dribbling skills and surprisingly good vision.
-
Not many…
Lack’s height and physical presence.
Gomez
Very like Villa, with more physical presence and slightly less proven quality. Doesn’t get involved in the build-up as well as Villa but is capable in this area.
Manucho
Great physical presence.
Offers something in behind.
Good pace.
-
Unproven in a difficult league(or more to the point, unproven in an easy league, the Greek league)
Isn’t an out-and-out goalscorer(or hasn’t proven himself to be, even in the Angolan league)
Doesn’t involve himself much in the build-up.
Welbeck
Gets involved well in the build-up.
Scores a fair amount of goals, of good quality.
Has pace and creates space for himself well.
-
Unproven at any real level.
Isn’t really the out and out goal scorer we are looking for.
April 18th, 2008 at 23:51
There’s meant to be a ‘+’ sign in there everywhere there is a space under the strikers name, didn’t work for some reason.
April 18th, 2008 at 23:58
so by the list us 2 have drawn up, our perfect buy would be villa, just that he wants to move to arsenal… fact is all those players and all our players are unproven in the premier league and i believe it would not be a bad decision if we held back on a striker buy at least until january where we can evaluate the progress our own bach of strikers have made. surely we will still be in the title race by january with the current crop we have.
April 19th, 2008 at 0:06
First choice - Gomez, Second Choice - Villa, Third Choice - Huntelaar. And yes I suppose we could do that, but you should realize that won’t help us at all because Campbell and Welbeck won’t be given a chance and Manucho has hardly been in good enough form to merit a work permit. But yeah ok say we did that, tell me a winger we would buy during the summer?
April 19th, 2008 at 0:47
If we buy a big guy uo front -that lonely striker we re talking about- we re destined to continue playing the 4-2-3-1
so we have
EVDS
Brown–Rio–Vidic–Evra
—–Hargo–Andy—-
Ronaldo–Rooo—-Nani
——–Striker——
The 6 up front should all change positions -in this free flowing style that they re doing right now- except Hargo who will hold his position
I’ m starting to like this 4-2-3-1
April 19th, 2008 at 1:02
I hope they won’t be a lonely striker!!
April 19th, 2008 at 2:26
Nikos, i like that lineup for that formation, and as i said earlier, Berbatov/Huntelaar up front. Imagine our goal tally then! with Teves as our super sub. Good Rants Conor and Dan, dont nesessarily agree with ya, but good discourse neverless. Need to retain Evra to seal the last piece in our fab four.Definitly make Rio Captain. Still got the little matter of this season to wrap up!
April 19th, 2008 at 4:11
I want another striker preferably Huntelaar or Gomez. With that said I’m going to shock many of you and shut up about that subject because frankly I’m getting bored with it. Good rants from everyone but after a while it just gets to be too much. I’ll just play the waiting game and see what Fergie comes up with. I’d rather rant about what he’s done as opposed what he may do. At this juncture, we just don’t know. 4-2-3-1, 4-4-2, 4-3-3, 4-5-1, 4-1-2-1-2?????? Who knows? Lets wait for the season to end at least and for the transfer window to open before we get to ahead of ourselves. I’d rather talk about Blackburn and Barca to be honest.
April 19th, 2008 at 4:14
tevez as super sub!!!
that guy is not 30! Will he accept that role?
He has scored almost 20 goals for us this season (lot of them very crucial winners). He was 3 times South American Player of the year! He still is one of the best players in the team and in the world as well (probably even better than Rooney!) I cannot think of him (a proven player) getting bench for a newcomer (even if the name is Etoo/benzema/hunter).
I like to think of this year as the bed-in period (as 4 new players came in the team and all of them have played a lot because of one reason or another). we also had lot of experimentation in the mid-field. Probably next season we’ll see how good the system is. Andy, OH, Nani and Tevez would have settled in by that time. We have already seen flashes of brilliance from all these players this year. This will only get better. Its not really a good thing to fix something if it is not broken (we are almost champions and in CL semis despite all this). I guess what we should look for is a good, experienced 3rd choice striker (instead of first choice) who would be happy to sit on the bench (or we’ll have one of the youngsters performing that role but thats more of a risk). what we should look for is a quality backup for ronaldo (coz there isint any! giggs is too old and park is just ok types)
April 19th, 2008 at 6:20
Jos; Although 20 goals for the entire campaign is not bad by any means, it’s not as impressive as you may think for a striker. The benchmark for a striker has always been to score 20 goals or more in a EPL 38 game season. When you add a half dozen FA Cup games, 3 or 4 League Cup Games and a dozen CL games, it doesn’t look nearly as impressive. Sure Tevez hasn’t played in all of those games but his BPL tally is relatively paltry at 12. That’s just not good enough. Both he and Rooney should be near 17 or 18 BPL goals by now. For me a quality striker has to have 30 goals in all competitions. That is a high benchmark but if a winger can do it and if guys like Luca Toni and Huntelaar can do it, then United should have a striker who can do it like when we had RVN. Yes I’m asking a lot but then again this is Manchester United and one should never settle for second best. They should settle for something close to George Best. Oooh! I liked that one.
April 19th, 2008 at 7:09
I know this is kinda off topic with the striker debate (which, if someone was taking a vote, mine would be for Gomez) but, i was actually kinda happy about Brown’s contract being in the air as it could possibly give pique the 3rd half back spot and we would hold on to him. With Brown signed, and us almost certain to sign a full back, Pique’s days seem numbered and he really impressed me in his starts. I personally think that he is more than good enough to cover rio and vidic and if we continue to challenge for the title and CL in years to come, he might be able to stand limited playing time with the prospect of playing in 4 to 5 years time, full time. I’ve never seen this Garay bloke play, but if he’s half as good as some people say then he must be good and I say we buy him with the intention to make him Pique’s partner in the future.
Please dont take this as a hit on Brown either. I’m as happy as anyone for the lad because he got his contract, but I just think that Pique offers everything Brown does and more, a promising future. There is no reason to let a young talent walk because we feel we have to reward someone.
April 19th, 2008 at 8:08
grogs
thats where the problem is! you seem to count the importance of a striker by absolute number of goals scored! I would say it makes sense to look at how crucial the goals were! Tevez scored lot of very crucial goals for us. winner at anfield, away goal at lyon, scored against chelsea, winner at fulham and lots more. thats absolutely crucial contribution towards both CL and PL. you said he has 12 goals so that means he scored in 10-11 games (as i dont remember if he had any hattrick and only 1 double in one game) and probably 5-6 were winners in that total (so contributed prob 10-12 points to our cause in PL! + all his assists) he led the line in the first 5-6 games when we werent scoring at all (when all newcomers were just settling in) and prob has had to play in very unusual conditions (unusual for a top club that is, without a settled midfield which usually is the engine of the team). I think 20 goals in such conditions and such a year is quite good. we should look at context of the situation as well when evaluating players. now the team is bit more settled, prob next season we’ll see the best of him (and best of the system Fergie is trying with 3 very mobile forwards in Tevez,rooney and ronaldo). Torres’s 30 goals season looks good but that still hasnt won Liverpool the title! And He has had the excellent Gerrard to supply him. I will be interested in knowing how many assists do our “world-class” midfield have had this year, especially the center-mids!!! (if I am suitably informed, only Giggsy & Nani have a respectable number on that count)
I also think that if we win PL this year than we should take our chances on some of the youngsters (read welbeck,manucho,Pique etc) even if it means no title next yr/next 2 yrs. L’Arse did the same and now they have such wonderful bunch of very good young players and if they can stick together they will certainly win lot of things in future. we should try the same as well (it has worked in the past with giggs, becks & co) whats teh use of having an academy if we are not going to use any players from there at all? we should not become a club that sells youngsters to the likes of Sunderland and all!
April 19th, 2008 at 9:00
That’s a valid point Jos but still, the game has always been structured around the striker or strikers scoring the majority of the goals. The fact that our strikers do a lot of other great things is still only a smokescreen and an excuse as their number one directive and “goal”(bad pun) is to score goals. Everything else is secondary. It helps when they score big goals at crucial times but we still have a league championship to win and a CL title on the line. They still have plenty to play for and their goals have not meant a thing unless they produce the rest of the way and that we win the double.
I said that Tevez has 12 BPL goals. But how about those games where he disn’t score. Where did the points come from? Ronaldo. Huntelaar and Toni have scored over 20 goals in their league and over 30 in all competitions. Care to guess how many points their teams gained from their goal haul? It’s a lot more than 10-12 points. Strikers goals need to mean much more than that small total. If you score 20 goals, 10-12 of the goals should be game winners. That’s a heck of a lot more than 10 or 12 points. Both Rooney and Tevez together equal one quality striker when it comes to goal scoring alone. Fortunately the players offer more than traditional strikers in work rate, assists and mobility. But all of that would probably be futile if not for the legend known as Ronaldo. Torres isn’t really wrong when he says that Ronaldo carried the team almost by himself. From a goal scoring point of view, that is true. Fortunately there is a lot more to the success of our team like our defense.
As for using youngsters, there is far too much at stake to take a big risk and break in kids. Perhaps a few and give them time to play in the league Cup also. We have big teams constantly chasing us and the line between 1st and 4th isn’t that great. We cannot afford to take that kind of risk unless we are in a total rebuilding plan like Arsenal was last year and at the beginning of this year. Their expectations at the beginning of the year were not great so Wenger decided to break in more young players. We cannot do that to the same extent. Perhaps Welbeck will get a chance next year or Manucho but I wouldn’t count on both. Also, I have a feeling Pique will be gone. He just doesn’t have a future here with Vidic and Rio. The game and the business element of the game has changed. Much like baseball in the States, big clubs buy players and sell young talent because they are not in a position to take a chance on youngsters unless they are very very special like a Nani, Ronaldo or Anderson. None of the kids we have in the reserves are in that class. And Manucho is no kid as he is 25. He’s nothing more than a late bloomer. The good news is that that the money we gain from these sales will go to buy better players both old and young. So it’s not all that bad.
April 19th, 2008 at 11:39
grogs
[I dont have a good opinion of Real, his current team] He was with us for 5 seasons, scored 20+ in the league in every season bar one but in that time we won the championship only ONCE! He left, the club was left with no genuine 20 goals a season striker (indeed last season there was none) but we won the PL! We dont have a 20 goals a season striker this season (its strange why you dont call Ronaldo a striker???) but we are almost on the verge of winning another championship. Chelsea won league twice without anybody scoring 20 for them in the league (only time when Drogba did, they lost!) They added a striker of the calibre of Shevchenko (proven, world class, 20+goals_in_the_league_alone_striker, any tag you can think of) to a title winning side yet lost it next season! United right now are playing like a peach, beautiful flowing football, scoring goals (I think we have scored most goals in the league). Why do you want to break such a side and bring back RvN days when we had a genuine 20+ goals a season striker but when we couldnt score most goals in the league or win championships. The game of football has moved on from set theories of supplying a beanpole and hope for the best. coaches like SAF, Wenger and Riikard (how do we spell this guys name?) have shown how to play beautiful. I wish more teams could play like that, not just unimaginative crosses in the box and hoping for the best.
your post is quite interesting. yes football is built around scoring goals (but I bet you welcome goals wherever they come from, not just strikers).
I started watching football fairly recently (early 2000s) and one of my first fav player was van Nistoolroy! He is the reason I started following Man Utd (you must have guessed by now i am not English!) and now he has left but I am still stuck with united
Only thing I believe we lack (that other good european teams have) is a goal-scoring top class midfielder. And I dont believe Ronaldo is a midfielder anymore. We have nobody like Scholes (of scholsey days) or Gerrard or Nedved kind of a player unfortunately.
The only reason I’d like us to buy a top class striker is if we “promote” Rooney to ACM role! But then we’ve just too many options in the midfield !! Am just frustrated to see so little attacking threat in our play from such an important position
April 19th, 2008 at 12:16
3 players need to be signed this summer -
Veloso - Cover at left back, centre back + midfield.
Boswinga - Will Nev be the same player + how long will he last? Get the kid in now and by the time he is needed as first choice he will be ready for it.
Huntelaar - Offers something completly different + scores goals. The thought of wellbeck, manucho and campbell being back up to Rooney and Tevez worries me.
Dan: You say we need a winger cos we have used Ronaldo as a striker? Thats correct but surely if we sign a specialist striker we then no longer need Ronaldo as a striker and dont need another winger!
Also if we signed Veloso we can use Evra as an emergency winger and also Boswinga can operate on the wing.
What a squad we would have if these 3 boys came in…….
April 19th, 2008 at 12:39
Hi Ryan.
Veloso? Are you trying to tell me we don’t need O’Shea? Have you ever seen Veloso or Moutinho playing? They don’t stand a chance in the premier league. They are powerless and short. Especially that Velloso as a CenterBack? No way .
I read in wikipedia that Veloso’s prefered position is CB. NO WAY PAL. Bring me anyone else except Veloso. Pique is better , O’Shea more experienced and stronger. Just forget it
April 19th, 2008 at 13:01
jos: Bingo, we have won 9 champioships under SAF. How many times did we have strikers scoring 20 goals in the league? Twice.
I still feel we need a striker to free up Rooney from having to lead the line but for me goal scoring ability is a secondary criteria when assessing players for this role. Don’t worry about having predators in the team. Get 11 good players out on the pitch and the goals will come whether you have a RVN/Huntelaar or not.
April 19th, 2008 at 13:05
jos I do like your view of the football things. As we can see football isn’t the same anymore . I mean who is the forward who’s the midfielder. Are there clear positions or do they depend on players’ creation and needs of the attcking psition?
You know, Manchester has never had the first scorer when we won the EPL, except 3 times I think.
1st time was Yorke 18 goals 98-99 together with Owen and Hasselbaink
2nd 2002-03 RvN 25 goals.
So , it was 2 times we had the first scorer.
All these LONELY STRIKER goals (215) by RvN gave as the 4 domestic titles , one time each , between the seasons 01-02 and 05-06
So, who fcks that lonely Striker ?
April 19th, 2008 at 13:31
I think what everyone means with the lonely striker is that we need that different option. We are fine as we are and have shown this season that we can be succesful without an out and out striker but we do need that extra option and its gonna help us improve and thats what its all about, being stronger than the previous year.
Fergie has said he will be looking at younger, hungry players who will make the squad better and have the potential to improve in the future. Do Huntelaar, Bowinga + Veloso fit that requirement? Yes they do.
O’Shea is a terrific player but still what is his best position? I think left back as most people do but if Evra got a season long injury could we rely on O’Shea to play left back all season? A bit like Brown has with Nev’s injury, im not sure. Im not saying Veloso would do a better job but he has some great qualities from the half dozen times i’ve seen him and playing with better players will only help him and if he has the required desire to improve and succeed then he could become a very good player.
April 19th, 2008 at 13:46
then yea, buy veloso, how many times have said we dont NEED a striker but IT WOULD BE BETTER. im not saying saf should hold all his transfer plans and buy a winger im just saying it would be useful. but yea fine, buy veloso and use evra as a winger, that would work to.
April 19th, 2008 at 16:40
Jos; You can’t put all the responsibility for not having won more trophies on to RVN’s shoulders. If he was the same player today (which he no longer is) with our current lineup he would score well over 30 goals in all competitions and we would probably have an insurmountable lead in the BPL right now. Instead we are 2 points ahead of a sad and unimpressive group of misfits managed by an idiot. When RVN was here Arsenal had their famous undefeated campaign and Chelsea won two championship in two years under the Special One, while only conceding three or four league defeats in two years. Our opposition was very good and we had problems on defense, and no great depth at midfield like we have right now. Todays team is so much better than what RVN had for most of his tenure.
JB is partially correct when he says we need somebody to take the pressure of Rooney and allow him to play the role he is comfortable with, which is the position of second striker. However, it is important that this player be a goal scoring striker because that kind of impact player is capable of taking attention off of Rooney and even Ronaldo. Tevez or anything remotely resembling Tevez won’t do it. Tevez for me is an ideal super sub because of his work ethic and terrier like running in short 30 minute bursts. As a starter he tends to lose gas in the second half. As well, if he offers all that in the beginning of a game, then he faces fresh opponents as opposed to late in the game when they are tired. That ruins the advantage he gives us with his energy and speed.
Sorry but like Dan, I am stubborn and nobody can convince me of any alternative that doesn’t involve the purchase of a true goal scorer. We need to stop having lowered expectations. If you shoot for the stars, you may reach the moon. If you only shoot for the moon, you may not make it in to space. Why settle for 70 to 80 goals in a BPL season? Shoot for 100. A true striker would bridge that gap in goal scoring quality and total, and with it would come even fewer losses and ties and a closer chance to showing the record dominance of those Arsenal and Chelsea teams that hardly ever lost a match.
April 19th, 2008 at 18:15
The contacts are good news but a few new players are needed. Alves should be bought to become first choice right back. Brown would then only count as a centre back so we wouldn’t need to buy another one. The other problem area is another striker as Saha is always injured. Most people would say to buy Berbatov or Huntelaar but I’ve something totally different in mind. This striker had one or two desperate seasons but he went back top his homeland and has now rediscovered his old form. He’s an out and out striker, he’s very physical, has a stinging shot, can take a free kick and never misses a penalty. Who is this man, the answer is - Adriano. Think about it, he’s only 26,wouldn’t mind being on the bench, has been playing great in the Torneo Paulista and would be piss cheap(in football terms of course) around £5m would get him. My Man Utd team next year would be:
1.Van Der Sar
2.Alves 5.Ferdinand(C) 15.Vidic 3.Evra
18.Scholes 4.Hargreaves 8.Anderson
7.Ronaldo 10.Rooney 32.Tevez
Bench: 12.Foster, 6.Brown, 16.Carrick, 17.Nani, 9.Adriano.
Saha and Fletcher would be sold and I’d retire Gazza Neville because he’ll never get back to his old form. Next season would be Giggs’ last one.
April 19th, 2008 at 23:02
Paddy; Adriano is a risk I wouldn’t touch with a ten foot pole. And I think the chances of getting Alves are slim and none.
April 21st, 2008 at 20:41
Don’t know why I missed some of these comments but this one comment here from JB:
“Jos: Bingo, we have won 9 champioships under SAF. How many times did we have strikers scoring 20 goals in the league? Twice.” has completely changed my mind about what kind of striker we need. Sorry Grognard, I’ve left your side and gone over to the dark side regarding this subject
April 22nd, 2008 at 0:33
So Coner you would reject Torres as he is not the kind of striker we need and wouldnt improve us?! That is if your saying we dont need a goalscorer?
Come on guys, we need to stock up in the striking department as we only have 2 we can rely on. Why buy what we already have in Rooney and Tevez?! Lets have something different on the plate. Look how well Saha did last season when fit as and out and out striker - just what we need as an alternative.
April 22nd, 2008 at 0:49
I would take Torres without hesitation, as he’s not only a goalscorer but he can run in behind and he can create chances for himself. Saha provided a good foil for Rooney last year and Rooney had his best season playing alongside him and we had our best season goal-wise for a while so we should be looking for an ideal partner for Rooney rather than someone who can finish the countless chances we create. I think first and foremost we should be looking for someone who can stretch and occupy the last line of defence to leave space for Rooney, Torres would be ideal but we will not be getting him. Berbatov could be this man, but I’m just not sure, Gomez may also be able to do this and score a few goals but who knows. I mean I just changed my mind as in I definitely do not want Huntelaar as I was considering buying him for the goals he would score rather than the partnership he would be able to from with Rooney.
April 25th, 2008 at 21:31
Grognard, in relation to Adriano: as they say “he who dares wins”. And if Alves wasn’t possible Lahm and Rafinha would be good alternatives.