Aug 27
Manchester United drawn with Besiktas, CSKA Moscow and Wolfsburg
You can read the live MBM reports here and here.
I am still unsure on the exact dates, but I can only hope we don’t travel to Moscow in December. It’s always tough at that time of the year. Either way, with Turkey and Russian clubs in our group, we have some serious travelling to do. Away from home Besiktas can be tricky, and CSKA Moscow formidable.
But in Wolfsburg, we have a free scoring opponent that can surely cause a lot of problems.
This is certainly not an easy draw, but by no means is it the worst one either. CSKA Moscow and Wolfsburg are two genuine contenders from our group, and qualification will be a hard fight.
Related items from Red Rants:- CSKA Moscow vs Manchester United: Preview
- Manchester United vs VfL Wolfsburg: Preview
- Sir Alex’s men for the third consecutive CL final?
- Manchester United vs Vfl Wolfsburg: Preview
- Liverpool vs Manchester United: Preview
Tags: News Snippets · UEFA Champions' League
August 27th, 2009 at 17:58
we need to pray to god we do not have to travel to Istanbul and Moscow before away games in the premier league, especially on a wednesday night
August 27th, 2009 at 18:03
After the 2nd outing we face Liverpool (away) and the 3rd outing we face Chelsea (away) in League. Horrible. and either or in the 2 outings will be an away game (alternating). Very very tough indeed.
August 27th, 2009 at 18:03
CL DRAW:
group A: bayern munich, juventus, bordeaux, maccabi haifa
group b: Man utd, cska moscow, bestikas, wolfsburg
group c: ac milan, real madrid, marseille, fc zurich
group d: chelsea, fc porto, athletico madrid, apoel nicosia
group e: liverpool, lyon, fiorentina, debrecen
group f: barcelona, inter milan, dynamo kiev, rubin kazan
group g: sevilla, rangers, stuttgart, unirea urziceni
group h: arsenal, az alkmaar, olypmiakos, standard liege
August 27th, 2009 at 18:07
@Mr.Muhozi: Whatever we have to do mate, WE WILL DO IT. Always have, and always will. Thing about having to play against very good teams, as opposed to easy ones, as the other English clubs have drawn, there will be no room for COMPLACENCY from us. We will know straight away we have to perform, or we are out.
The other English teams are laughing with their draws, but hopefully our players will be ALL back from injury, and we have a fully fit squad. Anybody know when the 1st games are scheduled for?
August 27th, 2009 at 18:12
@Adrian: I think if we can get some good wins under our belts BEFORE our CL games, we will be high on confidence, and that always helps us. Lets wait and see! No need for forebodings, unless our best players are injured, or nor back from injury!
August 27th, 2009 at 18:21
We got an outstanding draw. Other than a long trip in winter to Moscow, the group is very easy. Wolfsburg is decent but have no experience at this level therefore should fold like a tent. Besiktas, just another average Turkish side who will be tough at home but easy to dispose of at OT.
Groups A, C, D, E, F are all very difficult And in particular I would consider A, C and F groups of death. Liverpool also will not have it easy with a surprisingly decent Lyon side and an always testing Fiorentina.
The easiest group by far and I am trying to understand how one of the top 8 teams is not seeded in this group is Group G Sevilla will have it very easy with Rangers, Stuttgart and Unirea. How you can group Barca with Inter and Real with Milan but leave this group full of second tier teams is beyond me? Arsenal also have got it easy with the Dutch champions minus van Gaul and two minnows, one from Greece and the other from Belgium. I mean Arsenal finished fourth in the EPL and they get a free pass like that? I won’t say the Champions League is rigged but it is completely off the reservation. Idiots at work. You should have 8 top seeds and then 8 second tier seeds. No way should Barca and Inter be in the same group or Real and Milan. Based on record and over time the eight seeds should be Man Utd, Barca, Real Msrid, Liverpool, Milan, Chelsea, Inter and either Wolfsburg or Porto as they are champions form a top league. I honestly do not understand these draws. How the Hell Arsenal and Sevilla get such a free ride is beyond me? At least United got a decent draw. It still won’t be easy because of the travel and because the Russian and Turk away games are far away in hostile environments.
August 27th, 2009 at 18:25
@Mr.Muhozi: To be honest, I get a lot madder when I see the lads being transported throughout Asia in pre season before they have their legs under them. Before the season starts they are already tired and fatigued and suffering from jet lag. All this in the name of marketing and brand power greed. At least going to Moscow and Istanbul will be for a valid and concrete purpose.
August 27th, 2009 at 18:31
@Grognard: Completely agree. The draws are random and I do not see any foul play, but I do not think that Arsenal nor Sevilla belong in 1st seed pots. Real Madrid in 2nd pot is due to their poor CL form with 1st round knockouts over the past 5 (!!!) years. Juve had a small scandal. Arsenal and Sevilla should be replaced by Wolfsburg and Porto — actual winners of their league.
Enough ranting. Bring on Arsenal!
August 27th, 2009 at 19:19
@Grognard: Yeah Grog, how was Seville seeded No 1 ahead of Inter and AC Milan – what have they EVER done in Europe? How did Bayern M get seeded No 1 when they didn’t qualify last year? Who the feck can understand these seedings??? Arsenal shouldn’t be No 1 seeds either!
August 27th, 2009 at 19:22
Le Arse are shouting there mouths off that they are confident of beating us at OT. This is one game I want to really win on saturday.
August 27th, 2009 at 19:24
So pissed at the moment. Rail works on the tracks from London to Manchester. So its a no-go for me on saturday
My car is at the garage, so can’t drive either. What a bummer to say the least 
August 27th, 2009 at 19:25
Johnny Evans thinks he is playing on Saturday against Le Arse. How can this lad keep playing with a knackered ankle? If his ankle goes, it puts our team in jeopardy, because it will leave us one down on the bench. If he is not fully fit, he shouldn’t be patched up and put out there – Wes Brown should play instead, so we can keep a fit three for subbing from the bench!
August 27th, 2009 at 19:29
@Nafooy: Errrrr take a cheap flight mate??? Otherwise ask around on the Man United blogs, who is travelling by car from London, and can take a passenger. I am sure that fans will be driving up from the south mate!
August 27th, 2009 at 19:29
@Craig Mc: Spot on mate. Maybe he’s ok after all. I don’t think the gaffer would risk him so early in the season even though it is a big game. Only explanation is he has passed fit I guess.
August 27th, 2009 at 19:36
@Craig Mc: I dread flights mate. I was actually just thinking about joining some friends from here, need to make a few phone calls
cheers for the advise.
August 27th, 2009 at 19:44
I really like the draw, much more interesting teams to play than bloody Celtic and Sporting again!
August 27th, 2009 at 19:44
Why the fuck can’t Tevez SHUT HIS YAP !!!!!! Here he fucking goes again
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_5517587,00.html
He is one irritaring little peice of shit. Fuck me but does any one else feel this is getting out of hand and somebody at MUFC should fucking counter attack the venom from this scum!!!!!!
August 27th, 2009 at 20:00
Happy enough with the draw, avoided 2 of my bogeys
still, as others have mentioned they wont be easy away ties. Should at least progress through to next stage, but i dont have much faith in progressing any further. This team is still weak in midfield, without strengthening, we dont have a hope in Europe. Might be a bit too soon to make that call, but i dont see a stable enough platform or control in midfield.
August 27th, 2009 at 20:08
@ Nafooy :Tevez has become the the official spokesman of the manchester united and fergie haters, mate…
so let him speak as much as he wants…
he will get the reply from vidic in the derby when his legs will be broken by vida…
till then just relax…then we will cheers mate
August 27th, 2009 at 20:09
The group is ok. We will still make a meal of it because we always do. We should really beat Besiktas home and away because they are terrible! Then all we have to is win one of our home games, draw the other and it doesn’t matter how we do on the road.
However even if we top the group I think we could get pushed out at the knockout stages if we come up against Inter, Juve or AC Milan.
Ronaldo was so integral to the new style we adopted of playing in Europe. Our first XI without Ronaldo compares unfavourably to many of these teams even though our squad strength is enough for us to finish in the top three in the Premier League. Without Ronaldo I do not really feel we have someone who can separate two teams. Rooney seems to have lost his way in Europe (although that could be due to being played out of position) and Berbatov never impressed me much on the few European outings he mustered last season.
Lets hope our defence manages to stay fit and does not wobble like it did second half of last season and somehow Ferguson manages to patch up Hargreaves in time for the knockout stages (not that Im holding my breath).
Really Im a bit pissed because under Fergie we’ve underachieved for so long in Europe and when we finally started to learn how to win in Europe we lose our best player and fail to adequately replace him and fail to learn the lessons that AC and Barca taught us and still struggle on with the same piss poor midfield.
August 27th, 2009 at 20:24
@colver: Mate a bit less pessimism eh?!
. We can’t adequately replace somebody like Ronaldo – he is irreplaceable – you know that! What we have to hope is that Rooney gets established now he is in his favourite playing position. That Berba and Owen hit form, and the goals come. Nani will help Owen if he gets a good run of games, and they both remain free of injury. Owen does know how to play AND SCORE on the big stage, and I see no reason why he can’t still recapture that. He just needs a PROVIDER. We may not have as good a year as the last 3 trophy wise, but IF our best defenders get fit and stay fit, we may well go on a clean sheet streak again. Lets face it, we have to see where we are come January!
August 27th, 2009 at 20:24
It’s Time to revamp the entire champions league. I say they should coppy the amercan college basketball tournament. Where every league sends their champions, and they are seeded based upon strength. And it should be straight knockout home and away. That way the best teams won’t play ach other till later in the tournament. Then a selection commitee would choose from only from league runner ups.
This would be a far more exciting competition in my eyes and would prove who really is the best team and not one who had a easy path to the final. It would also bolster the Europa competition by giving it more top tier teams.
August 27th, 2009 at 20:33
@Johnsom33: That’s NEVER going to happen mate, because it will mean to much financial loss to the teams missing out, by not being champions of their league. The CL is all about MONEY, tv rights and worldwide revenue and advertising. More teams involved, more countries tuning in. The advertisers paying the clubs million, Nike, Adidas etc etc etc, THEY OWN the clubs and the formats. You know that mate. Yet when they do bring in the new European league, that will be exceedingly lucrative, and will only be for the select TOP teams in their nations. The clubs that can FILL their stadiums, and have bit stadiums and crowds, will be the ones with world wide prestige, and the minnows will be left behind. Dog eats Dog business world mate! I don’t need to tell you this anyway mate, because I know you already know this reality. Football owned and run by BIG BUSINESS
.
August 27th, 2009 at 20:42
@Craig Mc: Bayern have made it to the final eight many many times and have won their league I think 4 out of the past 6 years so they deserve their seeding. Having won the competition 4 times doesn’t hurt either. But seriously, what have Sevilla ever accomplished?
Arsenal finished 4th in the EPL. Regardless of being in a recent final and in the semi’s, that does not qualify them for a seed over the champions of both Germany and Portugal. Countries that between them have won the tournament 8 times. Porto have won the CL twice and certainly the champions of the German league deserve more respect than this.
August 27th, 2009 at 20:45
@Nafooy: it’s down to incredible bitterness mate. In fact, I kind of sympathize a bit because what it shows is that he really loved the club and his teammates and he really didn’t want to leave but he felt disrespected and underused by Fergie. Probably just his insecurity hoping that his bitching about Fergie will register with United fans in the opposite way that it actually has. Like the scorned woman Carlita who just can’t deal with her husband leaving her for a younger and more beautiful Michelle Owen.
August 27th, 2009 at 20:53
@Grognard: @owen: I don’t know about you guys, but I for one have had enough! He just keeps going on and on and on and fucking on!!! It’s as if someone took his life time savings while banging his wife infront of his own eyes!!! what a sorry twat!
August 27th, 2009 at 21:08
I quite like the champions league format as it is. Its not based on one nights performance till the closing stages therefore to me a truer test of a teams worthiness. I hope my pessimism reguarding United in Europe is unwarranted. But when i look at the best 11, without much x factor going on, i think we’ll bow out to stronger opposition after the initial stage.
@Craig, come on Bro, i know you want to believe, but dont you see average when its staring you in the face every Sat. I want to believe too! But there’s too many buts! Big questions?Will Hargo come back? Ever? Can a 4 4 2 or 4 2 4 work in Europe with an average midfield? Can an average midfield with any formation work in europe? Can our strikers step up to the plate? And score goals. How will we manage injury wise through the season?
Route 1 has left for the fascists, so how does route 2 and 3 work? When we find it hard to break down a team? More hail mary balls hoofed up front hoping Berba will hold it up long enough for Rooney? And many many more questions?
August 27th, 2009 at 21:20
@Nafooy: From our perspective he is a pretty sad and pathetic individual but in fairness, none of us have walked in his shoes and we are not aware of all that went on. Still, I wish he would just shut up and move on.
August 27th, 2009 at 21:24
“Nemanja Vidic lost out to John Terry in the UEFA Club Defender of the Year category”
What the fuck?!
August 27th, 2009 at 21:26
Why are we talking about a bitter city player? Enough from him, really!
August 27th, 2009 at 21:33
@Will, maybe it has something to do with their system of picking the best player? I’d say they pull those names out of a hat before the CL draw! Thats the ONLY way “tiny tears”tm could rate above Vidic.
August 27th, 2009 at 21:38
@Phoenix Red: I know about all that Phoenix Bro – I am not blind
. But I will persevere with what we have, because we have no other choice, and like I said, I will bide my time until January, to see where we are. I see everything you see Phoenix, but I always feel that something is just round the corner mate 
. I just can’t let it get to me and have more than the odd dark day Phoenix, it only brings my loved ones and those around me down, and I don’t want that. So you will forgive me Bro if I choose to believe AGAINST all the odds 
.
August 27th, 2009 at 21:40
@Will: Why are you surprised?
August 27th, 2009 at 21:48
@Dan: well VDS gets the Goalkeeper award but yet Vidic looses to that knobhead.. wheres the consistency in these rewards?
August 27th, 2009 at 21:48
@Nafooy: Mate Tev-dead is tormented. His head is still not right. If it didn’t bother him, do you really think he would be so obsessed with it all the time. He thinks that by keep publically saying all the time his reason for leaving was that Fergie stopped respecting him, then the United fans will feel sorry for him and get on his side. Tev-dead wants the accolades and exaltation, and love of the United fans when he comes back to OT. He has no idea of the welcome he is really going to get – it will not be coming out of respect. United fans have really turned. He will be mortified, and sob sob sobbing, when he realises that the United faithful have ZERO respect for him anymore too. He is in for such a shock. Ronnie on the other hand, will get the reception his CLASS and respect for Fergie and his former team mates deserves – the stands will be resounding with cheers for Ronnie. He has truly respected us fans since he left.
August 27th, 2009 at 21:54
Who the fuck are Man United, and the reds go marching on, on, on
.
August 27th, 2009 at 22:17
@Will: If casillas had gotten to the semi, or buffon, it would have went to them.
August 27th, 2009 at 22:35
Okey, Ive gotta say I am both exited and dissapointed about the draw…
CSKA Moscow, I cant believe how underrated their are. The Russian League is class, and some of the players Russia have produced are magical. They have great balance, strength and ball control. They will be a tough opponent, but Im really looking forward to facing new opposition again!
Besiktas, from the Turksih League. What the Turkish League lacks in skill, they make up for in heart. You will have to work hard to find a League with less spirit and heart… Its gonna be tough, but I can still see us beating them in both games. All comes to what team Fergie plays.
Wolfsburg, from Germany. Being Champions in Germany ahead of Bayern, having two strikers scoring a combined total of more than 55, and just the fact that they are a German team should make this one tough. Dunno how it will become, but we may have to have our most difficult games against these guys.
So, all in all pleased with the draw. Its really difficult opposition, but we will get the chance to face new opposition, which is always exiting. Looking forward to the new season!
But, fuck it we missed out on Real…
Oh well, we will get them sooner or later!!! 
August 27th, 2009 at 22:40
The Germans and there 55 goals
. If we have our best defenders, and they are FIT and not pretending like Rio in Rome, then I think we will do okie dokey 
.
August 27th, 2009 at 22:46
Dunne to Villa…
Warnock to Villa…
Distin to Everton…
Chimbonda to Rovers…
What kind of boring transfer day is it today?!
Yeah, I consider Robben to be boring. Dont like they guy, its something personal… 
Fuck him, too bad for Grog he has to live through the pain of watching that pig play. Oh well, Nani and Valencia are gonna be gold! 
August 27th, 2009 at 22:49
@Footy4Eddy: Well NANI is gonna be gold anyway Eddi – count on it!
.
August 27th, 2009 at 22:54
@Craig Mc: I know Nani is gonna be gold, but I also hope Andy can step up his game. If he really starts making an effort in training I can see him progress, which is what we all want but havent seen. I have really high hopes for him, but if he doesnt pull himself together he should just fuck off. Hope he does prove me right though!
August 27th, 2009 at 23:11
@Craig,I know you see the truth maybe i’ll try and buzz off your optimism. And you never know?!
i’ll give the lads a chance, before i write them off completely. I know i’m just regurgatating other concerned opinions
August 28th, 2009 at 0:48
@Footy4Eddy: I hope so too Eddi, I would love them all to come good. Wouldn’t that shock every naysayer mate?
.
August 28th, 2009 at 0:52
@Phoenix Red: We got to give them a chance Phoenix, we’re United fans, always was, always will be – thru thick and thin – right?
. If the worst comes to the worst, which I don’t think it will, we still have 3 years 3 PL titles, and I CL – plus other trophies. So the rest have a lot of catching up to do regardless. I’m a happy United fan, come fair weather come storms!
August 28th, 2009 at 1:42
@Craig Mc: I disagree, I think that format would make just as much money as the current format, and it eliminates the dreadful group stage. Since the teams are seeded, the minnows will bow out quick leaving only the true continental heavyweights. I think it belittles the competition when 3rd and 4th place teams are in the “Champions League.”
Like I said this would bolster the Europa league and increase its profile, thus generating more money. Of course it wont make the same amount of money as the CL but that is your punishment for finishing so far off the pace.
As for it never happening, I agree with you on that one. Thats because the men who run football are stubborn and devoid of imagination.
August 28th, 2009 at 6:00
@johnsom33: I would like nothing more than to see the Champions League go back to what used to be the European Cup. Played by the champions of every country only as well as the winner from the previous year. It’s fair, it’s right and it gives all domestic league champions the added bonus and validation that you only enter this tournament by winning your league, not by just finishing 3rd or 4th. It should be an exclusive tournament showcasing the champions of every domestic league only. Create a seeding system to guarantee that Manchester United and Barcelona don’t meet until at least the quarters and you would have a solid tournament without as many games and without the useless group stages which are so cautious and boring to watch. Two leg knockouts are a knockout for me. Winning your domestic league will mean something again. Right now it means just as much to finish 4th. That’s not right.
August 28th, 2009 at 6:30
@Grognard: Yeah… I can see where you are coming from buddy. But, this begs one question which might be the cause of this system i don’t know the history. But, if I want to look at it from a third person’s point of view then are you sure i will get the correct picture of the things and football in Europe. I mean no matter what ever you say but can you say with all the conviction that Arsenal is worse than that of Porto, AZ as they are CHAMPIONS and Arsenal is just fourth. I mean for me the leaggue should be able to show the best in the europe inrrespective of there no in particular league (certainly not below the current sdtanderds of fourth). So, I am not sure what they need to do with the existing form of Competition but all I know is I want see better teams playing in this comp. I mean i would definitely like to see Arsenal, Juve, AC, Bayern of this world which would miss out the spot in your form of comp even though they are much better and stonger then the few others who are champions in there league.
August 28th, 2009 at 6:46
@Onkar: You don’t have a problem with a team like arsenal who haven’t won a single trophy in the past 4 years compete in the “champions” league? It isn’t the best in Europe league, it’s suppose to pit league winners against each other. It should be a priviledge to be in it, not a “top 4″ birth right.
August 28th, 2009 at 7:01
@Johnsom33: Buddy… If you are saying Europe then I think things there are not at PAR. I mena my point is simple I can’t say that Arsenal is worse team then AZ (which i know they will prove me right by beating them when they will meet up) or Bayern is worse of then Bourdex. I am just saying that you can’t compare it at all. The leagues in countries other England, Spain and to Certain extent Italy are not comparable to these big leauges. Or else by your logic only Celtic would have and should have beaten Arsenal left right and center as they better of in there own league compared to aresenal in its league for last so many years. But, we all know what happened.
And we all know it for sure that If Chelsea (no champions last term), Pools (no champions last term), Arsenal (no champions last term) would have won any other league but England. So, how can you really set the bench mark if we want to go for your kind of competition.
And to tell you very frankly, I would rather like to have a competition consisting of AC, Real, Bayern, Juve, Arse (no team is champion in there own domestic league) then AZ, Bourdex of this world who mind you are champions….
August 28th, 2009 at 7:17
@Grognard: Sevilla won the UEFA cup 2 yrs ago, right? The coefficients do not distinguish between pts earned in UEFA league/cup vs. ECL and they track back 5 years. That is why United are behind Liverpool and Chelsea — recall our poor CL season when we could not advance from the group stages… If we perform well this year (semi+) we should (theoretically) claim top 2 spot given chelsea/liverpool having an early exit — 1st or 2nd round exit.
Arsenals final appearance in 2007 is still carrying them. If they stumble this year they will be in trouble.
I would like to see coefficients be handed out similarly to National team coeffs — where losing to minnows hurts much more than losing to Barca, etc.
Que Sera Sera!
August 28th, 2009 at 9:25
@[OPTI]Madschester United: You are saying arsenal’s 1 time appearance in the final is still carrying them to this day, how do you explain united’s record of 1 win,2 finals, and 2 semi’s, yet they are ranked below chelsea who haven’t won it,haven’t been to more finals, and only regularly make it to the semi’s. And how about domestic form, doesn’t that count, I see them coming up with a chart every month describing the best team in europe at the time, they were doing it last year even before barca won the CL based only on domestic form. The system is wrong and whatever formula they use should be reconfigured.
There is talk of forming a champions only cup, I heard wenger talking about it, but for me the champions league shouldn’t just include the top clubs, if it did then it would be a shallow and non competitve cup, look at madrid last season, they were an average team, being torn apart by every serious team that faced them yet they had won la liga the previous season, while barca who came in third were undoubtedly the best team last year. The champions league shouldn’t be like the world championship, an after tournament, it should be a serious undertaking and teams participating should mark it as the most important tournament they are participating in, like it is today.
August 28th, 2009 at 9:51
@spizzy: I always looked at everything that Shit Platini and Blatter do with lot of conspiracy. I mean i hate those piss of shitts like anything. I mean forget about this ranking what about the whole JT matter. How the hell he is best what about Vidic. I hate it….
August 28th, 2009 at 10:04
@Craig Mc: “Ronnie on the other hand, will get the reception his CLASS and respect for Fergie and his former team mates deserves – the stands will be resounding with cheers for Ronnie. He has truly respected us fans since he left.”
Why is this? Why should Ronnie get the respect? Why does it not matter that he fucked up our CL celebrations? Why does it not matter that he blatantly lied to us for over a year? Why does it not matter that he trademarked CR9 almost a year before he signed? (meaning that his heart has left us long ago). Why is it that just because he wined and dined Fergie that all is now forgiven? Why is it that it matters not whether he fucked up our summer, not to mention our team now that he’s left? Why does it not matter that he is a mercenary of the highest order? (re-nogotiating for a pay-rise just a year or 2 into his new contract – and then have the audacity to say he feels like a slave?). Why does it not matter that he shares not the same love for the club that we do?
So, why the fuck should he get a hero’s reception? Not in my books he shouldn’t.
August 28th, 2009 at 10:18
@spizzy: I think the Chapions League should just be renamed to something like European League. IMO, European Champions League implies (or should imply) the Champions of the leagues in Europe. (No 2nd, 3rd or 4th placed teams).
August 28th, 2009 at 10:26
@Karl: No one is going to get heroes reception and i think Criag has said that he will get reception that means he won’t be greeted with hostility thats all. About your question why, the answer is simple he did what he always wanted to do that is to Play for Madrid (it hurts…
but its true… 
). And for all the time he was here he was a totally professional footballer. Never sulked for the move and played his heart out. So i think whearther he deserves the HEROES Reception is debatable me but he definitely dosn’t deserve the hostile reception.
AS far our team is concern we got good amount of for him the best in the history. Its not his fault that Manager did not sign any one to replace him.
(But have toi accept that I am still as angry on him as I was when he first left us for joining that class, cheat of the horse MOB.)
August 28th, 2009 at 10:28
@Karl: Don’t think that right as I am saying for Arsenal (4th in BPL) is still better than AZ (Duthch Champion) or Bourdex (French Chmps). That says it all….
August 28th, 2009 at 10:39
@Karl: If it wasn’t for Ronnie united wouldn’t have achieved everything they have for the past three years, His contribution to the club is undeniable and I think you are just angry that he left and haven’t yet come to terms with that.Tell me how he fucked up your CL celebrations? Its not his fault that your coach dint have a full proof backup plan for ronnies exit, He gave fergie a year to think of options. And he is not a mercenary, he left for his dream club, not because of the money, if he was a mercenary he would have joined city and become the highest paid player ever.
Ronnie always said his dream was to play for madrid, would you give up your dream just to please a fan? Details of the contract said that the deal had to be kept under wraps until june 1 and if any party came out publicly the deal would be null and void, so what did you expect him to do, sabotage his own dream move? And fergie also knew about the deal but he came out publicly and said he wouldn’t deal with the mob at madrid, so even fergie is guilty for lying, if you are going to crucify ronnie the please do the same to fergie.The fact is even when united denied him the chance to play for his dream club he still gave his all for the team, his petulance at OT when we were playing city showed how much he wanted to play, his attitude during the final even after barca scored showed how much he cared,add to that, he was the only player on the pitch who was working hard trying to equalise and probably win. He played his heart out for us even though he knew he was leaving, ronnie was many things but he was a united hero through and through who gave his all to the club during his time here. I for one will give a standing ovation to ronaldo, he deserves at least that for all he has done for us.
August 28th, 2009 at 10:49
@Onkar:
“Criag has said that he will get reception that means he won’t be greeted with hostility”
- Actually, Craig said “the stands will be resounding with cheers for Ronnie”.
“Never sulked for the move and played his heart out”
- He did sulk. For over a year, claiming he was a slave
“And for all the time he was here he was a totally professional footballer”
- treating the backroom staff like crap is not exactly professional. Getting upset at being subbed or “rotated” is not very professional.
Another why…Why are we such idiots? Even he himself belittled us by saying: “Ahh, just a few goals and everybody will forget [how I fucked them over]“.
Now, becuase he wined and dined the manager, all is forgiven?
I don’t hold the fact that he went to his “boy-hood dream-club Madrid” against him. In fact, I supported it then, and I support it now. My thing is the hypocrisy.
August 28th, 2009 at 10:53
@spizzy: Agreed 100%. I won’t ever think of an Hostile reception only on one count what ever petulance he showed he still managed to give his 100% every time he played. He played his heart out all the time till the final day in The Famous Red Shirt…
August 28th, 2009 at 10:54
@spizzy: I thought you guys said it is because of Fergie that we won “the past 3 years”?
Why try to defend a Madrid player? He is all the things I accused him of. I did not think the things up all of a sudden. My point is just, What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. Are we not a tad bit hypocritical here? Neither Ronnie, nor Tevez are United players. They obviously don’t love the club (or fans) as much as we do. So, fuck ‘em!
August 28th, 2009 at 10:56
@Onkar: And Tevez did not give 100%
August 28th, 2009 at 11:01
@Karl: If you want to know what is Sulking then ask Berba or Greedybayor about it and you will then realise what he did was Kinder Garden level against these graduates in sulking. Getting subbed I am not too sure wheather Rooney likes it either and specially when his MOM was in the stands the boy had to play the whole match so….
As far back room staff no one can vouch on that we all can talk about what we have heard from so called sources not surprisingly they are wrong more often then not….
Be honest buddy, we all knew all the time that he was always going to go to Madrid try accept that… That was his dream….
And for Craig saying that Resounding Cheers my point also differs a bit… That he doesn’t deserve Resounding Cheers but hostile reception is definitely not what is waranted…
August 28th, 2009 at 11:06
@Karl: He did give his all… BUt what he did after leaving is just unaccepable. I mean fans did recognise that he gives his 100% and they did make sure that Manager knows it. They did the worst thing by disrepting the Manager Speech by chants.
So he always knew that fans were on his side and I am sure that he would got what Craig called as Resounding Reception but he himself spoiled it by all the things he did then onwords.
And I thinks thats when things turn ugly and no excuse for that… No one is Bigger than SAF no matter how correct or how wrong SAF is….
August 28th, 2009 at 11:13
@Onkar: Sulking is sulking. Whether small sulks or big sulks. It still defines your character.
Please don’t see this as a defence for Tevez because I just want to illustrate the hypocrisy…
According to Manchester United PLC, they offered him wages to make him the highest paid player in the PL. This means that he would have earned just as much (more or less) than at City. In other words, monetary benefits was not the deciding factor for him. How is he then a mercenary?
I think the following has more to do with his decision to move to where he did:
When rumours of Ronaldo leaving for Real surfaced, Fergie’s reponse:
“I flew over to visit him and have a sit down.”
When rumours of Tevez leaving for City surfaced, Fergie’s response:
“I text’ed him but received no response”.
Can you blame the lad for sprouting his mouth off at the manager? Unlike Ronaldo, he actualy wanted to play for United. Just like Real was Ronaldo’s dream, so was United Tevez’ dream. That is something most fans fail to realise.
August 28th, 2009 at 11:16
@Onkar: “No one is Bigger than SAF no matter how correct or how wrong SAF is….”
- I think this is where the problem lies. It should read “No one is bigger than the CLUB…and that INCLUDES SAF”.
Can we truly say that what he did was for the ‘benefit’ of our club? I suppose that is the real debate.
August 28th, 2009 at 11:28
@Karl: I never ever said it’s because of fergie we won the last three years, I sit on the side that says it because of CR7 we won the last three years.
If you’d allow me to us an analogy, Say you owned a company and employed a young man to work for you during this recession. your new employee is hardworking and diligent,and earns you millions of dollars, and because of him your company becomes the most successful in the country. would you really begrudge your employee just because he wants to leave and start his own new company, or would you respect him, thank him and wish him well in his future en devours?
Tevez is a little fuck,if you notice, most people were on his side during the end of last season, but the little fuck had to go and start talking shite about united and the gaffer,and to top that he refused to sign for united even though he kept saying he wanted to play for us. Tevez is just trying to justify his actions and hoodwink fans by saying he left cause he didn’t fell loved,he probably wanted the same sort of favor as ronnie and roonie, problem is he isn’t good enough, he has delusions of gradeur and thinks he’s at the same level as ronnie and ronaldo.He knows he left for the money.Another problem with tevez is that he refuses to move on and act professionally. he’s creating more animosity with his continued verbal tirades against the club.
August 28th, 2009 at 11:28
@Karl: AAhh AAh… Mate i think you need to check your language or else we are landing into mess.. Check your first sentence mate if can’t debate without getting personal then please don’t indulged into one..
We haven’t even mate one nor we have debated about anything before so you are not having any capacity of commenting on my Character (May be thats why you are Fighting for the Tevez now I get this).
And the statement i passed was…
If you want to know what is Sulking then ask Berba or Greedybayor about it and you will then realise what he did was Kinder Garden level against these graduates in sulking.
So I started of with BIG IF so i was just to point out that what you feel is not sulking but what other did was. So i think you need to brush up some of your understanding as well (just like TEVEZ needs to so he will shut the fuck upo and move on).
I think this is the last straw now If can debate without getting personal about my character then fine or else just Good Bye just like We did to TEVEZ.
Just like Real was Ronaldo’s dream, so was United Tevez’ dream.
Not too sure about the later part of the statement…
August 28th, 2009 at 11:37
@Karl: Can’t agree again… As long as SAF is around I think he is bigger than club at the moment. And wheather people have guts to accept or not that the truth. AS far as last 20 years goes I don’t think he has done lot many things which are wrong. And in Ronaldo Case he was right 100% as even if we would have not sold him then also he surely would have not renewed his contract and with contract running out every day I am not sure we would have got half of what we got today. And as far things after the sale we are still not sure wheather he has money or Like Grogy says Glaziars have already eaten them all.
So for me and from Business point of view (don’t know if you will get it or not he was right)….
August 28th, 2009 at 11:42
@spizzy: Agreed with Analogy buddy 100%. But the problem with some people is they can’t understand business and they start on your character (which essentially showcases there own).
I agree that I never liked Ronaldo for leaving and hated him for joing that Classless MOB but credit where its due.
I won’t say that he was the one due whom we won last three years certianly not last year (as defence was the major reason for me) but he was the most influatial of all for sure.
August 28th, 2009 at 11:51
BTW
Fergie: Owen Will Be Back Soon…
The story is on ROM
http://therepublikofmancunia.com/fergie-owen-will-be-back-soon/
Would be a great addition if it ever happenes…..
August 28th, 2009 at 11:53
Okay, on this Ronnie topic…
please tell me the difference between following trasfers…
Rooney: Everton -> United
Ronnie: United -> Madrid
and people here worship Rooney…
and what about Rio, Brown, Evra(?) holding club ransom for money!?
For me, they are no different…
August 28th, 2009 at 12:02
@Onkar: I think you misunderstood me. What I meant was that IF you Sulk, it defines your character. Whether it is a ‘big’ sulk, or a ’small’ sulk, it still reflects exactly the same on your character. I was referring to Ronaldo/Tevez/etc. Never have I ever, in any of my comments passed a personal statement or attack to you or your character whatsoever.
as far as I can recall, Tevez never bad-mouthed the club or the fans. He has a personal gripe with Fergie. I’m not saying he’s right, but I can fully understand and relate to it.
– I know humility… ). With the proper manager, Tevez can become a world class player. I have seen enough of him to give testament of that. If you can stroke his ego properly and show the necessary confidence in him, he can arguably become a better player than Rooney. That’s how good he is.
Tevez is an emotional player. He is 100% heart when he plays. Problem is, that type of commitment comes at a price. You unfortunately have to be an emotional type of person to perform the way he does. This emotion usually extends beyond the pitch. For this reason, he gets easily hurt. Like an injured lion, when hurt, you fight back. Unfortunately for Tevez, he was not blessed with much intelligence. This is very evident in his decision to move where he did, and also in his incapability to ‘pick his battles’. He unfortunately picked a battle that he cannot win. Not only is his opponent wrong, but also his strategy. Not because he is a little fuck, but because he is a talented, emotional, not-too-intelligent human being.
Due to his emotional nature, his confidence is easily stroked ro shot down. (I can relate to that because I am very similiar – except of course for the intelligence part
Thing is, United did not do that. In a sense Fergie did that during the latter parts of the season before last, up until when Berba showed up. And, he was constantly improving. Thing is though, I don’t think he is at the right place now. Hughes can boost confidence, but the fact that their owners bought all these strikers (and expect them to be played), will put a lot of pressure on the Hughes/Tevez relationship because, if you want to get the best out of Tevez, you need to baby him for a while. I don’t think that with the club’s ambitions, Hughes has the patience and energy to do that.
August 28th, 2009 at 12:09
@Footy4Eddy: regarding post 42. It appears Ando has scourned you good fella, in fact i would go as far as you seem really pissed with him like you would give him a good hiding for letting you down. He doesn’t deserve your loyalty. Untill he works hard to prove himself on the training field he’ll never show you his worth on the match pitch! (You can do better – plenty more fish in the sea)
August 28th, 2009 at 12:09
@AndyCR7: That was actually the point I tried to make all along…”hypocrisy”.
What’s good for the goose should be good for the gander. The sad truth is, at the end of the day, they are all in it for the money and the glory. I don’t really have a problem with that, as long as I get entertained.
We can use the same analogy at work. Why should people really be upset with us when we decide to move on to another company?
The only thing that pisses me off is when people lie to me, or really challenge my intelligence or emotions, eg. “Nahh, I just score a few goals and they will love me again”.
I will always respect Ronaldo as a player. He is one of the greats. Other than that, he sucks.
August 28th, 2009 at 12:19
@Onkar: “As long as SAF is around I think he is bigger than club at the moment”
- This is dangerous. This is exactly the perception out there at the moment. This is why SAF should retire sooner rather than later.
When SAF retires, it is almost inevitable that we will experience a dip. Personally, I would rather start experiencing the dip now than to endure another season of shit, spineless, un-entertaining football. I feel so passionate about this now, even to the extent that I don’t give a shit about the 19th title. (I know Liverpool won’t win this season).
August 28th, 2009 at 12:26
@Karl: Errrr all depends who you believe Karl – right? The Man Utd plc NEVER said they offered Tev-dead the highest wages in the PL. They said, and Joorabchian confirmed that United had offered Tev-dead a very good package. Man United would not have offered him more than their top players, because SAF has never believed that Tev-dead was worth it. SAF said he personally didn’t believe that Tev was worth the 25 million plus transfer fee, but was willing to go along with it BECAUSE THE FANS loved and favoured Tevez.
You say that he didn’t go for finance – that is just not true Karl. Tebez himself in an interview with the media said – two astonishing things which proved he is A PUPPET under the control of his slave masters:-
1. Tev said “I wanted to go to Chelsea, but THE FINANCIAL PACKAGE at Man City was just too good to refuse.” (There is full proof from his own mouth he went to City rather than Chelsea, let alone us for the MONEY!)
2. Maradona – ORDERED me to sign for Man City. Doesn’t that sound like he could not freely make his own decisions, but was and will always be a little yes man told what to do!
The SAF doesn’t love me, or respect me, has one aim, to get United fans like yourself Karl to feel sorry for him, and giving him the thunderous and rapturous adulation and applause he CRAVES on his return to OT. It will be thunderous no doubt, but I will be amazed if it is anything but downright verbal ANTI adulation he wants. Tev-dead has LIED. SAF did try to contact him, AND he did sit down with him and talk. If anything the disrespect was from Tevez to SAF.
He has gone, he has not gone with CLASS as Ronnie did, but has gone and carries on going with bitterness and venom in his heart. If he loves Man City, as he says he does, why the continual talk talk talk about United. He has not moved on! His head is still here at OT.
August 28th, 2009 at 12:30
@Karl: Very valid arguments.
Tevez’ gripe is with Fergie and NOT with utd or fans. I do believe Fergie treated him wrong for one full season and in the end their relationship deteriorated a lot. this has happened in the past also with lot of great players (Stam, Becks, RVN etc). But lets leave it aside. Tevez is no longer a utd player. why waste time discussing him.
August 28th, 2009 at 12:32
@Onkar: I think your missing the point about the champions league. No one is saying the Dutch champion is better than the 3rd and 4th place team in England. All we are saying that if it’s called the champions league then there should be more league champions.
It’s not fair to the smaller leagues in Europe that the English, Spanish and Italian teams hog all the CL money. Right now the competition is getting worse each year because europes ultra elite clubs are getting farther away because of there income. How good would arsenal be right now if they didn’t have CL money for the past 4 years? How many of their players would stick around with no trophies in 4 years AND with no CL every year? Look at it that way and you’ll see how the huge gulf in class between europes leagues can start to be bridged.
August 28th, 2009 at 12:33
@Karl: Sorry bro…Your statement “It still defines your character” smelt like you are having go at me. Apology, for what ever I said in my post and followed up as it was just a reaction and nothing else to the matter I thought is getting bit personal. So peace on that front but certainly not on the other issue.
As I am liking this Debate very much…
As far as your assessment goes you have said that “Unfortunately for Tevez, he was not blessed with much intelligence.”
So we can say that he was ignorent enough to have taken the decision which was not that great for him. May be he was misguided in all the issues before and after the signing for Shitty by his advisors. But at the end of the day we all know one rule mate that
“Ignorance is no excuse”
I mean just look at what I did… I apologised straight way to what was ignorant posts from my side. So excuse apologise for mistake.
It applies every where mate… And unfortunately emotionals are more of then not made fools by taking disadvantage of there emotional quotient by the smarter and shruder poeple….
August 28th, 2009 at 12:38
@Karl: Thats precisely what My point is Respect Ronaldo for what he did for United and that does not warant hostile reception. Thats all what i am trying to say since last three hrs but then why to bring Tevez in to the matter bro….
Infact I even said that he does not deserve the Heroes reception like Craig said but he doesn’t deserve what Tevez might get….
August 28th, 2009 at 12:44
@Karl: Difference is though, Ronaldo RECOGNISED his mistakes, and admitted his naivety. He apologised PUBLICALLY to club and United fans. He apologised several times. He has left and seemingly moved on. He was a SAF favourite no doubt, otherwise he wouldn’t have gotten away with some of the shit he pulled. Nevertherless, he never pretended or lied that he didn’t go for the money. He specifically said, if the MONEY being talked about is RIGHT for Manchester United and myself, I will sign for Madrid. Ronnie’s dad when he was dying, told Ronnie that his destiny was to play for Real Madrid, who were the love of his Dad’s heart. The MYTH being portrayed by every City player not just Tevez that they didn’t sign for the money is total bullshit! No United fans I know are worried about them moving for MONEY, just that they LIE thru their fucking teeth about it, instead of just having the balls to say, yeah I moved for money – so what!
August 28th, 2009 at 12:47
@Johnsom33: Fine bro… But still I know only one thing that they need to find out a system wherein they will be able to fit in all the top clubs in Europe in one competition.
As far as the whole thing about disparity about the money is concerned we can’t really find an answer to it…
Its there every where even in our personal life as well… So no answer and no comment about that….
About the Arsenal we both know that knowing Wenger they would have still manage to do well with what ever and whoever they might have got… Wothout that money…. As it is he hasn’t spent any of it….
August 28th, 2009 at 12:50
@Monkwahhdo: I agree mate
.
August 28th, 2009 at 12:51
@Craig Mc: Its abosolutely right bro… When people you and me can change our jobs and accept that yeah I got better deal so I moved on then why thses so called Role Models doen’t have that much guts…
Ok. I mean I am not saying that every footballer move his club for money but whoever does why need to fake a thing that its not about MONEY.
August 28th, 2009 at 12:54
@Karl: I think what Onkar means is ferguson has security of tenure, so it will take a big, big mistake, or something to go seriously wrong for him to loose his job. But I don’t think he is bigger than the club. The only people bigger than the club are the glazers.
I do think it’s nice for him to have this security because this eases pressure and allows him to experiment and this helps our team become more stable with the knowledge that the coach will be there tomorrow, next week and next year, however look at the teams who change gaffers frequentlys, they struggle and rarely maintain winning form for long.
I however disagree with the mentality that fergie is always right, he has led us to unprecedented glory YES, but he has also made mistakes. His tactics in the big games are always wrong and he has shown some form of subdued,laid back,relaxed coaching. I think he is nearing his end and will retire soon. But his retirement doesn’t have to come with a loss of the winning ways we are used to,if the board can oversee his replacement with a competent coach like mourinho then we can move into a new phase at united and still maintain our silverware.
August 28th, 2009 at 12:56
@Karl: Football is for MEN not for BABIES, Tevez needs to shut up and grow the fuck up!
August 28th, 2009 at 12:58
The Champions League is a joke. Either they should go all the way and have a European league. Or they should go back to the old format when only champions and a few choice second places make it. Personally I liked it in the early 90s when you had a few knockout rounds then a group stage then the final. I think to win the Champions League you should be playing the majority of the top teams.
I do not have any real hard feelings towards Ronaldo. It is our fault for not having an adequate plan to replace him. He gave us another year so we knew his departure was coming but we’ve failed to replace him with a star signing. We got £80 million for Ronaldo-so it is not as if we were forced to sell him on the cheap because he sulked his way to an exit. It is our fault for not investing that money in improving our squad.
I really do not see us getting past the first round of knockout stages. At best the quarters. That represents around £30 million lost revenue compared to last season. Now if we spend £30 million on David Silva or someone of a similar standard we’d have a better chance of making it to the semis or even finals.
August 28th, 2009 at 12:59
@AndyCR7: Nobody is bothered they went for money, they are only bothered that they LIE about it, instead of perpetuating the myth that they went to City for some holy and glorious reason. They all followed the money, and we have no problem with that – just their denial even to themselves of that fact!
August 28th, 2009 at 13:04
@spizzy: Yups… Even I disagree with it He is always right mentality… But, then when a person has earned so much in his life you need a very stonge case against to prove that he was wrong and that is not going to happen which craetes this mentality in that person, collegues and followers as well which quiet natural.. I was just highliting that and was not advocating that…
August 28th, 2009 at 13:09
@Karl: Don’t know whether you get to OT or not Karl, but it doesn’t matter anyway, but if you do, I won’t be expecting any cheers for Ronnie on the terraces from you then
.
August 28th, 2009 at 13:21
The largest Russian newspaper “Sport-Express” published an interview with Arshavin (Arsenal), asking for his views on chances of the Russian teams in UEFA Champions Cup.
Arshavin responds “CSKA has decent chance to move to the next stage, it all depends how well they play”
Reporter: Even though they are in the same group with Man United?
Arshavin: Why not? Zenit has beaten Man United in the past, hasn’t it?
http://football.sport-express.ru/reviews/1068/
August 28th, 2009 at 13:22
@colver: Mate I think SAF did have his plan to replace Ronnie – with BENZEMA! It was putting all his eggs in the one basket, and not having plan B that was his failure. None of us know either, whether SAF did have a plan B and that also failed to materialise – but folk by nature will just keep on summising, rightly or wrongly
.
August 28th, 2009 at 13:40
@Craig Mc: “The Man Utd plc NEVER said they offered Tev-dead the highest wages in the PL”
- “http://www.manutd.com/default.sps?pagegid=%7BB4CEE8FA%2D9A47%2D47BC%2DB069%2D3F7A2F35DB70%7D&newsid=6634810″
Here they admitted to offering him top wages.
- Suppose it depends. I can’t recall where, but one of the articles at the time stated that he would be one of the highest in the PL because the offer was on par with Ronaldo/Rooney
“I wanted to go to Chelsea, but THE FINANCIAL PACKAGE at Man City was just too good to refuse.”
- At least he’s not that stupid
- Why does this make him a mercenary? The club he loved threw him to the dogs. As you yourself stated that Fergie admitted to thinking he was not worth it.
What is a bit worrying about your argument is that someone of Fergie’s stature would throw away 25m (and offer him top wages) on a player whom he don’t believe is worth it? This to please the fans?
I would assume this is the same fans that he turned a blind ear towards when they shouted sign him (at the time when he should have sorted out the contract). I would also assume that these are the same fans that were crying out for a replacement for Ronnie when he believed it not necesary? Or are these the fans that were upset over his axing and subsequent inadequate replacement of Keane? Or am I mistaken in thinking that these are the fans that he so boringly entertain every week?
Since when do Fergie give a damn about the fans? (Can it be that I am not the one being suckered, but that you might be?)
I’m sorry Craig, I don’t buy that. That’s just SAF saving face. (If I were the Glazers I would be furious over someone throwing away my money like that – since he himself don’t believe it is worth it).
August 28th, 2009 at 13:46
@spizzy: Agree on Mourinho. not sure about exactly how exciting our football is, but I agree that he is the best option to secure a trophy. Thing is, we should not dis-illusion ourselves. It might not happen overnight because the players are all indoctrinated by Fergie. It might take a complete overhaul to get them to play the way the new manager wants. We still might take a dip.
August 28th, 2009 at 13:48
@Craig Mc: No I won;t be cheering for him, just like I won’t be cheering for Tevez. Why should I? They don’t play for United anymore. They both decided to move on, and so have I. My point here is the hypocricy.
I’ve noticed that whenever we bring up this debate, you spark a bit more than normal. Why are you so bitter with Tevez?
August 28th, 2009 at 13:51
@Craig Mc: If that was truly the case, then it implies that our manager is an idiot. He should have cleared up the Benzema transfer before he let go of Ronaldo. I am not a manager of a big football club, but even I knew that Benzema wanted to go to Madrid.
August 28th, 2009 at 13:52
Sneijder has signed for inter for £13.2mil. £13.2MILLION!! Fucksake.
Also, Robben has gone to Bayern for £22mil.
August 28th, 2009 at 13:52
@Monkwahhdo: SAY THE SAME ABOUT RONALDO AND I WILL SHUT UP!
August 28th, 2009 at 13:58
@Monkwahhdo: I agree mate, so any views on arsenal tomorrow?
August 28th, 2009 at 13:58
Sorry for the “NOT” shitty scum mistake there. At work so a little rushed. lol
Back to my point though, Fuck Tevez the argie little twat. A bitter argie playing for a bitter team. well placed if you ask me (if you even interested in my opinion that is !? lol)
As for Captain sulk of the 2008-09 season Ronnie, He’s made his apologies and we gracefully accept.
Now move on peeps
United waits for no man!
August 28th, 2009 at 13:59
@Karl: I can be bitter with anyone I like, but I wouldn’t be bitter with Tev-dead if he didn’t every other day keep bleeting about being disrespected. That good enough for you eh?
Also, unlike you seem to be Karl, I am a SAF fan, and will always side with him against Tev-dead. Were you one of those fans that OUTSHOUTED the SAF end of season trophy speech at OT, with “the sign Tevez up” chants then Karl? I wasn’t you see, and its something I hope we never see at OT again. Tev-dead made all those shouters feel like fools now I’ll wager.
August 28th, 2009 at 14:02
@Monkwahhdo:
, but be careful Bro, you’ll get accused of being a Tevez bitter with such beautiful, well expressed sentiments 
.
August 28th, 2009 at 14:18
@Karl: Maybe the Glazers were furious, and maybe that is why United pulled the plug on the deal in the end. Obviously it wasn’t Tevez that left of his own accord, because his constant cry in his own words to the media has been – “as far as I know, Man Utd have thrown me out.” Tevez told the Argie media that he thought he was still looking at 3 options, Man United (1st), then Chelsea and Man City. The press were reporting that it REALLY SHOCKED Tevez when United pulled the plug. Truth is, that Joorabchian and Tevez were playing silly buggars – dallying and just trying to make United wait, because they had to wait so long for United to make an offer. Their dallying backfired, and United withdrew the offer. I am only telling you what came out of SAF’s and Tevez’s OWN MOUTHS, I heard with my own ears. So don’t shoot the messenger.
As for Benzema, you’ll never get me to call SAF an idiot – sorry! You don’t know and are just speculating like everyone else that SAF didn’t try to get someone else in. SAF said recently, that he was sure he had gotten Benzema, but when Real M FAILED to get Ribery from Munich, they made a move at the last minute to snatch Benzema. So Benzema wasn’t Madrids 1st choice, Fergie couldn’t have foreseen that Madrid would come in. Anyway, this is my last word on the matter, you and I will NEVER agree on SAF mate, and I am BORED with this now, I want to go onto other things
.
August 28th, 2009 at 14:25
@Karl: I agree by the way that Tev-dead was offered a wage increase, but you said the highest in the PL, which it assuredly wasn’t. One of the highest – maybe!
August 28th, 2009 at 14:30
@spizzy: Arsehole? errmm yeah a few views
1st view: They have great movement at the moment which mean fletcher is gonna have to play. track that ball down every oppurtunity.
2nd view: I have a slight feeling they aint going to attack as much as have been doing because Gallas has been the instigator for them and he’ll not risk being out of position especially when faced with Rooney and (enter partners name here) just begging for goals.
3rd view: i’m worried about defense for some reason, evans aint fully fit, ferdie seems a little stoned recently and Wes is just back from injury. Oh and this is a big game so i’m anticipating Foster shitting himself if EDVS is still side lined.
I am however always an optimist therefore i reckon we could be on hand to deal Arsehole the slap of reality they need right now.
Reckon if the gods are with us 3-0 Rooney, Vida and Rooneys partner (Owen or Berba)
August 28th, 2009 at 14:45
I wanted Real Madrid
August 28th, 2009 at 14:50
@Craig Mc: I can’t explain myself regarding Fergie. Unlike what you think, I am a Fergie fan. At least I think. I know I was.
Regardless, I have a huge amount of respect for what he has achieved. I just feel that it is time for him to move on and the dictatorship at OT to end. Does not mean I don’t respect him. But, IMO, in the best interest of the club, he should hang up his boots now with pride.
My wife loves milk tarts. Last week I bought her one, not checking that the tart was past its sell-by date, and past its used-by date. She did not appreciate it. Nontheless, she still loves milk-tart.
Now, I believe a player like Giggs is past his sell-by date, and a player like Scholes is past his used-by date. Still love them (actually, never a huge Scholes fan, but Giggs was always and will always be my hero). But, in the best interest of the club, I believe they should move on and retire as heroes. Fergie to me falls in this category.
I don’t know how else to explain my ‘fandom’ of Fergie. He is a football managerial God. But, there comes a time…and I believe the time is now… (If Pele were to put on his football boots and join United, I’m sure I’d laugh at him. Does not mean I don’t respect what he is to football).
August 28th, 2009 at 14:54
@Craig Mc: Point was its not money. But, I agree, I’m also getting tired of this. (Just had to get the last word in
because I’m leaving for home now, and then it becomes her privilege to get the last word in 
)
August 28th, 2009 at 15:19
Craig yeah perhaps Fergie was gazumped by Real Madrid but tbh the deal never looked like happening. Benzema made it clear he preferred Spain to England and never showed any great desire to sign for us. But yeah you are right it is classic Fergie only having a single target. ON the one hand it means he usually gets his man but when it backfires Fergie cannot think of any alternatives-when the truth is there are a number of players in Europe who could improve our squad.
Against Arsenal I think our main worry is conceding goals. Arsenal are on fire and their midfield could rip ours apart and with a makeshift defence behind our midfield we could concede a few goals.
If we keep it tight and do not concede I think we could get a 1-0 win especially considering Rooney is on goalscoring form. We know that Nani can give Arsenal problems so I reckon our plan should be to keep things tight in the middle of the pitch and attack them on the flanks.
August 28th, 2009 at 15:22
Re: Fergie. I think he is showing signs of softening and has lost some of his edge. I do not think he is ruthless enough to rebuild this team which was dangerously reliant on Ronaldo. Give our midfield a make-over removing the deadwood and we’ll be back on track. That is the main problem with our team. Players like Carrick and Anderson aren’t really good enough to take on the midfields of Real Madrid, Barcelona, Chelsea and even Arsenal or Liverpool. We also need backup for Fletcher who works best when kept fresh for the big games.
August 28th, 2009 at 16:25
@colver: And today at his press conference he was praising Wenger for knowing when to get rid of players (Kolo, Adebayour, Viera etc). Start taking a leaf out of the stingy voyeurs book eh?
August 28th, 2009 at 16:36
I think what a lot fo you are forgetting is that Tevez was a huge fan of the club before he signed. It was his dream to play for United and his dream turned into a nightmare unfortunately. The reason he keeps babbling to anyone who will take the time to listen to him is because hes hurt. He is like that girl you dumped, but who keeps on stalking you and texting you no matter how many times you tell her “ITS OVER STOP FUCKING TEXTING ME”(true story…)
I like all of you are sick and tired of hearing him run his mouth, especially since he is saying the same thing over and over and over and over again. We get it carlos, now move on, because trust me everyone else has long ago.
August 28th, 2009 at 16:45
In the words of the great Walter Sobchek “Does anyone else give a fuck about the rules!!!??”
Finally UEFA gets something right and is charging Eduardo for diving. I hate diving of any kind, but Eduardos dive is the absolute worst possible one. Zero contact and in the box. He didnt even do the gerrard thing where he sticks his leg out looking for contact.
The most disgraceful thing abut this is that Wenger is defending eduardo and calling it a witch hunt.
“This charge implies there was intent and a desire to cheat the referee. Having watched the pictures again there was nothing conclusive”
Are you fucking serious? Coming form the man who admitted to lying to the press to protect his players. Before Wenger said this, I have yet to come acros one soul who would dare and even suggest that there was contact. I really dont know what more Wenger could have asked for, to make the evidence Conclusive…
August 28th, 2009 at 16:59
Apparantly the yanks are screwing liverpool and us over, the rumour is hicks and co retracted £38 mil form the kitty to service debt and the glaziers have impounded the ronaldo money for the same reason?
sincerly hope this is just bullshit, sound so feasable though
August 28th, 2009 at 17:04
@Onkar: The European Cup should not be a tennis style competition. It’s not about getting the best teams in Europe and deciding who is best. The European Cup is and always should be about getting the champions of each country together to play in a knockout competition to see which domestic champion will be Europe’s champion. It used to be an exclusive club. It’s not about whether Liverpool or Arsenal deserve to be there more than the champions of Romania or Belarus. Liverpool and Arsenal are not the champions of their domestic league therefore, there is another competition tailor made for them. The UEFA Cup or whatever it is being called now. If you are not a champion, you go there, and that’s that. No excuses, no crying about the European Cup, no playoffs to determine who makes the final 32 none of that. A clean easy to understand and fair tournament.
People will say that the competition will be watered down and that may be the case, but they are missing the point. It’s about determining Europe’s champion, not about entertainment value. When they play the world club cup in Tokyo they invited Manchester United to the proceedings, not Chelsea. Why? Because United were the champions of Europe at the time and this year they will invite Barcelona to represent Europe. That’s the way it should be.
The bottom feeders of the competition will never have a chance at winning anything or advancing as long as the 2nd, 3rd and 4th place clubs from Italy, Spain and England are all allowed in a tournament. The odds get stacked against a team from Belarus or from Poland etc. But in the old system you used to get a Panathinaikos, or a Malmo in the odd final. It was all in the luck of the draw. There was no seeding system and so it was very much like an FA Cup draw. And i’m sorry but it doesn’t get better than that. I would still seed the top eight and make sure that they never meet until at least the final 16 but that’s just me wanting to be elitist. Still, it beats this present format and their boring as Hell groups followed by the knockout stage. Too boring and too damned long. It used to take 4 rounds (8 games) to reach a final in the old format. Now it takes 12 games and then the final. Those extra four or five game splay havoc on the top teams and their domestic scheduling as well as creating incredible fatigue and increased injury potential. If it only takes 7 games to win the World Cup, it should only take 9 games to win the European Cup. Instead it is the driving force and motivation for players wanting to leave and sign with better club etc, and that is wrong. It’s important but it should never take more importance than a domestic league campaign. But these days managers like Rafa often sacrifice domestic chances in order to win in Europe. Squad rotation has become an obsession because there are just too many games to be played. I say change the European Cup like I have suggested and then also kick out two teams in the EPL and reduce the schedules to 34 games a season. Between Europe and the EPL that would be 9 or 10 fewer games top teams would have to play in a season. Less rotating and more priority paid to the domestic league as well as the faltering League and FA Cup tournaments which have taken a back seat due to schedule congestion. The European Cup should be a privilege, not a right. Earn it by winning your league.
August 28th, 2009 at 17:15
@[OPTI]Madschester United: The system is a joke and a disgrace. What Sevilla did in the bloody UEFA Cup should mean sweet fuck all to the proceedings. The European Cup needs to respect pedigree. It needs to respect it’s former champions and the elite who have won the trophy, not shown up in the semi’s or finals. Arsenal and Sevilla have won nothing. Bayern Munich on the other hand has made 7 finals and won the trophy 4 times. Manchester United has made 4 finals and won 3 times. Clubs like that deserve their respect and placement due to history and pedigree. League’s also deserve more respect than Sevilla and Arsenal. The German Bundesliga has won the the Cup a total of 6 times. Therefore their domestic champions Wolfsburg deserved a lot more respect than they received. Arsenal finished 4th for crying out loud. Hardly a statement that makes them deserve top eight seeding.
The Champions League has lost it’s way and it’s label is a misleading hypocritically driven lie. It’s not a league for “Champions”. Not when 2nd , 3rd and 4th place teams are invited and actually seeded above legitimate champions. The Champions League is a disgrace and a mess and above all, it is a money making entity designed to maximize marketing as it’s primary goal. Declaring a deserving champion is secondary to UEFA, FIFA and the teams making money.
August 28th, 2009 at 17:20
@Onkar: Yes the other Owen will be back soon, he will play a game or two and then go back to the infirmary fro more treatment on those legs of his. He is finished mates, I wish people could understand what severe tendinitis does to joints and how it is something that usually destroys and ends careers. Hargo coming back and sticking around is very very unlikely. I’m sorry but i just don’t see it and further more, I think we are fooling ourselves with this sense of security that when he returns our midfield will be good again. This player hasn’t played for over 18 months. I wouldn’t expect much at all from him.
August 28th, 2009 at 17:26
@Grognard: Such a purist Grog and you know what? You won’t get any complaints from me. Use the Europa cup for the 2-4 placed teams so they too can play european football and like we do now let the winner of the Europa cup play the Cl winner. In fact in just a few years we won’t have the Cl in it’s current formatt but will have a true world club champions league in the set up you have just reminded us of CHAMPIONS ONLY! It would benefit the worlds leagues not just the elite few. Bring football back to the masses and create more competitive leagues as only the best team will make it to the great money spinning tournament.
If only the head of uefa thought like you and so many of us.
August 28th, 2009 at 17:35
@spizzy: Actually, the Glazer’s are not bigger than the club. The club will still be around long after the Glazer’s have left this world, believe me. If they were to continue to screw with the Man Utd and their fans like they have this season, it won’t be long before a lynch mob will start meeting outside of OT. The fans of this club will not stand for the owners of this club causing the team to sink into the abyss. When we start looking like Newcastle then trust me, they will be forced to sell out of fear for their lives. It will probably not even take that drastic a situation. This debt they have hung over us like an albatross will start to weigh very heavy after Fergie has left the club and retired. After he is gone, losing will not be an acceptable option and a yearly transfer budget of 20 million will not cure anything.
That’s when I would expect a supporters revolution calling for their heads. These nickel and dimers are not the kind of owners this club deserves and after Fergie is gone, they will have lost the comfort blanket that protected them form the mob. This club deserves big owners with deep pockets, not pretenders who borrow and amass debt in order to act like big shots.
August 28th, 2009 at 17:41
@Craig Mc: Actually, the trend over the past two decades is that the game is much more suited to babies than it is to men. The days of the talented but hard player left in the 80’s. Sure there were the odd Roy Keanes out there but lets face it, theatrics, diving and bitching to refs like little girls is the name of the game today. Ask Canadians and Americans if they think footy is a man’s sport and the majority will laugh in your face. We here play men’s sports like hockey and US football. Physical, hard and brutal sport’s and nobody acts like a baby or acts like he just got shot if fouled. I love footy but it has become a girly man game and I blame FIFA and UEFA for it because all bad things grow and mature in Italy before they spread to other nations. And both organizations have worked hard on protecting and favoring that country in all competitions and so therefore, we have the modern game, full of babies and women with dicks.
August 28th, 2009 at 17:55
@Craig Mc: One thing that the media haven’t picked up is that Judas’ has been “undisclosed” by the bitters. Nothing unusual in this, normally, but as Gill and Joorbachian have openly stated the fee for United was £25.5m I smell a rat. Personally I suspect he went for a lot more than that amount which would prove that the Judas twat went for more pieces of silver though not silverware.
August 28th, 2009 at 17:59
I truely miss the players like pallister, bruce, keown (arse scum) etc. Players that didn’t give a fook what they looked like or how hard they hit another player or for that fact got hit, Vida reminds me of pallister but he too acts like a girl on the odd occasion. Bruce looks like he put his face in a god damn meat grinder but did he care? NO!
Most footballers a ponces worrying about their looks, seriously though i dont get why? Ok the Ronaldos, Beckhams etc have decent looks that self but everyone else should be gritty hard ball footballers.
STOP CRYING LIKE FOOKING GIRLS!! Shit before i gave up football because of a mary jane faze of my life i was a hard ball keeper. never backed down from a 60/40 ball against me even had my bottom lip stitched back together on the pitch after the whole of my bottom front teeth went through my lip. Yeha it hurt but not as much as the striker did when i got my fist to his face punching the ball the next cross that came in.
Not old enough to remember the 80’s football so it’s the 90’s that i truely miss. hard players, closely fought games, player on the pitch all bloody and stitch ridden and damned ugly.
August 28th, 2009 at 18:10
@Monkwahhdo: …..and some should get their fookin’ hair cut. fookin’ wet blouses.
August 28th, 2009 at 19:53
@Grognard: Im glad someone else sees that it’s a joke a 4th place team is invited to the champions league. It skews the rest of Europe money wise. Giant teams in smalls countries would actually have a small chance in hell to compete because they would get a piece of the pie. It would make Europe interesting again.
August 28th, 2009 at 21:15
@Grognard:
We here play men’s sports like hockey and US football. Physical, hard and brutal sport’s and nobody acts like a baby or acts like he just got shot if fouled.—– Have you seen Semin’s fight last year? You have to admit that was girly fight at it’s best. I sure got a good laugh out of this one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_ydsUCzi2E
On the other end, I absolutely agree that north americans would laugh at any attempt to convince them football (or soccer) has any toughness or spirit.
August 28th, 2009 at 21:18
@johnsom33: Just want to state for the record, I feel exactly the same way about him as you.
Craig, On another topic, Benzema…
If Benzema was Madrid’s target due to them not getting Ribery, then that would have implied that they would have stopped trying to lure Ribery after they have signed Benzema. They didn’t.
I don’t buy that “no one could have anticipated that” bullshit.
We were never good in the transfer market. For United to survive in the future, that need to seriously change. I would go so far as to say – we need to become more like Inter (read Mourinho).
Someone once made an anology on this site about City, their intended targets vs the acquisitions (something to the effect like… they wanted Torres, they got Cruz; they wanted Kaka, they got Barry, etc.). I think ours are just as bad…
We wanted Kaka, we got Valencia
We wanted Ribery, we got Orbetan
We wanted Benzema, we got Owen
We wanted Aguero, we signed another Italian 16yo striker
We wanted Robben, we extended Park’s contract
We wanted Lahm, we got Gary back
We wanted De Rossi, we graduated Fletcher as our ‘first choice’ DMF
We wanted Sneijder, at lease we still have ‘The One’
We wanted Ronaldo, unfortunately we’re stuck with Nani (just joking Craig
I love the lad)
August 28th, 2009 at 21:24
@Monkwahhdo: This is what football has become
http://blog.pcpop.com/picture/0007076645-1.html
August 28th, 2009 at 21:29
@Zauberlehrling: How about this one
“Football’s for girls”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7d4I-HR6iw
So Ronaldo-ish
August 28th, 2009 at 21:31
Ibrahimovic looked out of depth on debut…he just couldn’t keep up with his teammates lol..Shaktar has some talented players William and Ilsinho
August 28th, 2009 at 21:46
This clip gave me a good laugh
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuEcLjbUS1E&feature=related
August 28th, 2009 at 22:03
@Johnsom33: Think about a team like the champions of Greece or Romania for example. Relative minnows compared to the super teams of Spain, England, Germany and Italy. But if they were in a competition where all they had to worry about is just one team from each of those countries, their chances of winning and advancing far jump up massively. It’s about giving these smaller nations a chance to compete. Under the old system Steau Bucharest actually won the European Cup and clubs like Panathinaikos, FC Brugge and Anderlecht and Malmo actually made the final. What would their chances be today when they have to play five or six more games just to get to the final plus they have to go through so many more teams from the top leagues? It’s a joke. Sure Debrecen may not be as good as Liverpool or AC Milan etc, but they are champions of Hungary and therefore earned their spot. I fail to see how Liverpool, Milan, Arsenal, Sevilla and other non champions earned their spots. The system is money driven and corrupted by the greed of FIFA, UEFA and the big clubs. There is no fairness and correctness anymore.
August 28th, 2009 at 22:05
@Karl:
Thank you mate for the good laugh! To be Ronaldo-ish, the only thing that was missing was a pint of oil to enhance the muscular features of Madrid’s Anointed One.
Try rugby…appropriate to say the least!
Thanks again!
August 28th, 2009 at 22:06
@Zauberlehrling: Don’t talk to me about European hockey players. They are all dirty hacking little pussy’s who couldn’t fight like men if their lives depended on it. You want good old fashioned hard nosed alpha male fights? Watch Canadians and Americans fight. They fight like real men because it’s in our DNA. Europeans are not fighters, they are lovers. I think that statement says everything you need to know about how North Americans approach sports and how Europeans do.
August 28th, 2009 at 22:09
If i was srna, i would have decked messi right there and then.
Fucking twat.
August 28th, 2009 at 22:12
@Zauberlehrling: You want to see how a tough Canadian kid fights, take a look at this classic from 1978 when a young native Canadian Indian kid named Stan Jonathan totally destroyed the tall and strong Pierre Bouchard who was considered a tough goon for his day. Now this is a fight. Not that pussy shit I see European players do. Watch a fight like this and you will know why Canadians like myself feel soccer players are boys wearing who should be wearing dresses instead of shorts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne1y0QCOQOM
August 28th, 2009 at 22:22
@Grognard:
Ovechkin has a lot more spirit than many north americans. I never bought the Don Cherry formulae: buy canadian beef. Sure, they have their attributes, like fighting spirit but even that statement would be a generalization.
If I want to see talent, I generally prefer european stock. When I go to a sport building (whichever the sport may be), I pay to see talent. Why do I priorize talent? Because it is a sight to be seen. In fact, it is the eternal battle between talent and work. Talent is not something everyone’s born with. Some have it, some don’t. Working hard is something accessible to anyone with the will and guts to do it.
This is why a Tevez was loved more than a Berbatov (before the Argentinian’s Gollum break-down.) They loved how hard he work while Berbatov looks so lazy (talent generally does that to people.)
If I have to pay a lot a hard-earned bucks, I want to see something I couldn’t achieve even if I passed 24 hours a day everyday of the week for 5 year to do it.
Of course, many have a wild fantasy where talent meets effort. If does happens in very rare cases but it is a rare sight indeed.
August 28th, 2009 at 22:28
@Grognard:
Thanks for the great video! That were the old days the kind of which we’ll never see again, thanks to mondialization of the sport. Butch was certainly a terror but the kid never backed down.
In these days, the love of the crest meant so much more. I still remember fondly the Canadians vs. Nordiques massacre du Vendredi Saint. That was good hockey at it’s best. Calgary vs. Edmonton also gives shrills from time to time.
Thanks for bringing good memories back.
We miss that kind of passion in sports.
August 28th, 2009 at 23:11
@Karl: Very misleading Karl
. The papers said we wanted those players, SAF said he never went in for ANY OF THEM!
August 28th, 2009 at 23:25
@colver: Colver Benzema himself SAID he was ready for leaving to join Man UNited. He said in the press that he would come to us, and that he didn’t mind coming at all. Even his team mate (though the club forced him to retract his comments when Madrid came in at last minute) told the press that Benzema was off to England and Man Utd. So it wasn’t bullshit as some numpties on this blog would like to think
. Not talking about you Colver 
. But hey the SAF haterz will go on hating, I can’t stop them 
.
August 28th, 2009 at 23:35
@Craig Mc: Neither did I say he wanted them. I said we. Was not an attack on SAF, just wanted to illustrate the irony.
August 28th, 2009 at 23:37
@Craig Mc: So now I’m a numpty?
August 28th, 2009 at 23:38
Fergie has called bollocks on the Anderson+Carrick riff stories, so that’s the end of that.
August 28th, 2009 at 23:40
@Traverse: Yeah, new post up on that.
August 29th, 2009 at 0:02
@Karl: Yeah mate, along with the other numptees on here, including myself
.
August 29th, 2009 at 0:02
why do amercians think we care about what they think of football??
August 29th, 2009 at 0:03
@Karl: Oh right –
.
August 29th, 2009 at 0:04
@weezy: Weezy, are you trying to cause an on blog INFERNO mate
.
August 29th, 2009 at 9:36
@weezy: EXACTLY!
August 31st, 2009 at 15:21
I’m besIktas fan.can I talk?first manu is so stronger team than us and wolfsburg and cska.we are upset for drawing manu.aga?n we will face one english team.but make sure that manu will be lost the hell of INÖNU STADIUM as liverpool.we will win this match with the best fans of the world.dont ?nsult bes?ktas.dark black eagles is better than cska and my po?nt of w?ew wolfsburg.I hope manu and us qualify the another tour.have a good times…
September 4th, 2009 at 13:28
the game in Istanbul will be either besiktas’s or be a draw..besiktas started the turkish league badly but it won’t be bad against to man.united.the team is getting better every day.
besiktas fans can win this game all by themselves!!!haha if we win all the games in Istanbul,I’m pretty sure we can go to the next level.I hope that Nihat Kahveci will do a hat trick:)
CARSI!