Mar 05
Manchester United players need to do better
Manchester United have been, for several years now, circumspect in Europe (ponderous and over-cautious if you want to be picky about it). It’s not something the fans enjoy, but it is a combination of Fergie’s choices and how our players perform (both are equally responsible), so we have to come to terms with it.
On the surface, the season has gone well – United are one point behind Arsenal with a superior goal difference and Arsenal still to come to Old Trafford. United are also in the quarter-finals of both the FA Cup and the Champions League, and would be good bets to progress to the last four in each of the competitions.
But there are times when United’s performances disappoint and leave you wanting for much more. Last night’s performance against Lyon at Old Trafford was one of those games.
In the first half United were half-irresistible and half-pathetic. Scintillating, electric movement and passing and breaking to take the ball forward from defence to attack in seconds, but only to give the ball away time and time again in the final third. Lyon tucked in and defended through the middle, predicting (accurately) that United didn’t have the height to threaten from crosses nor did they have the physical presence to bulldoze through the center. The chances that did fall to us were half-chances and hats off to Lyon for playing the way they did – they did well and could easily have taken the game to extra time.
RR reader Grognard has a great match report in the preview thread’s comments – you should read that too to get an idea of how the players did.
Overall though, United progressed and that’s all that we really asked for – and instead of looking with jealousy at the performance of other teams, we need to focus on our own team and our own future.
Manchester United’s future in Europe hinges on three things: the availability of players, the right tactics by SAF and the requisite effort by the players. Last year at the San Siro we had none of those 3, and we duly suffered. This year, at Stade Gerland and Old Trafford, we had the players and tactics but not everyone performed as expected.
The Lyon game exposed frailties in United’s European game, but it also showed that we’re stronger than before. I’m not sure if last year’s United squad would have played like this or been able to withstand such pressure.
We’ll find out who our opponents are next Friday (or is it this Friday?) – and with Barcelona, Fenerbahce and Arsenal progressing with us, none of the games in the last eight are going to be easy. I just hope that the players are up for it.
I’d like to see more of Carrick floating those amazing passes to the forward players for Nani, Evra, Rooney and Ronaldo to run into, more of Anderson putting in picture-perfect tackles and robbing opposition players of the ball from behind, more of Rooney facing the goal instead of his back to hit, more of Nani and a helluva lot more from Ronaldo in terms of possession and passing.
Fergie should be able to sort all that out by the next European tie, hopefully. Till then, cheer up guys – we’re in the Champions League quarter-finals, again, and there’s still a lot of the season to go. Lyon were tactically and technically efficient and if you combine that with our waywardness, the edginess of last night’s game was to be expected. I have full faith in the players to learn from it and improve for the next game.
Related items from Red Rants:
- The United footballers who stood up to the FA
- Your predictions – who will United sell this summer?
- Chelsea 1-1 Man Utd: One Point Won, But Two Points Lost
- Home Grown Quota Could Temporarily Shut Platini Up
- RedChants
Tags: UEFA Champions' League
Opti (541)
Stephen (479)
RedDevilEddy (459)
Craig Mc (345)
Moscow is my heaven (272)
I don’t know how frail we really were against Lyon. We were never even guaranteed to go through, and i for one was nervous about this draw. We’re talking about about the six time french champions who have several players that are widely regarded as potential “United Material”. I mean it’s not like we just barely squeaked past Havant and Waterlooville. Lyon put up a good fight. They worked hard and created some good scoring chances. Really, i would have been quite shocked if they hadn’t. Who among us thought that Olympique Lyonais was just going to lay down and die?
Of course we can do better, and of course we need to. There’s always room for improvment. That’s what professional atheletes are payed for: to improve the team and improve themselves. But just because we can do better doesn’t mean we’re playing poorly. We didn’t dominate and we’re definately used to United dominance. But I don’t recall any length of time were our defense looked particularly ahsambles. I don’t remember our midfielders being kept at bay in their own half by swarms of french attackers. Honestly Lyon never looked like beating us over two legs, even when they were a goal up.
Regularly brutalizing the likes of fulham and Newcastle is one thing, but would be foolish of any team to expect to cruise their way past all of Europe’s top sides (yes, i would count Lyon among those ranks). I’ve never seen anyone do it. Personally, i think our European form is spot on, conservative tactics and all. We haven’t lost at home in ages. The only bad results this year were draws away to roma and Lyon. Do you know what they call the team that wins every home game and draws every away game? They call that team the Champion of Europe. Or finalist at the least but you get the idea. Of course we can improve, and we will. I think our biggest problem right now is that we have so many quality players, we don’t know which the best ones are. but with nani and anderson on one end of the bell curve of their careers, and scholes and giggsy on the opposite slope, that problem will sort itself out.
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My theory is simple….
Rooney and Ronaldo need to fire at the right time together in the tough games and we should be fine.
Tevez anderson and the rest will play well whilst these two are playing well..
And our back four well they have been superb all year.
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Millz; We are abit naive in Europe though it must be said… Lyon was a tough opponent but they are not a Barcelona or a Real Madrid, you know what i mean… We need to take control of games… Use the ball better and take our chances.
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The red devils should be lethal by taking the scoring opportunities. The chance that Ronney had in the second half that instead of testing Coupet, he back-heel the ball to ronaldo and the chance was gone.
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One thing to consider about last night’s performance was that even though Lyon played well, they never ever really threatened our goal. The back four were outstanding. Our midfielders tracked back well and Fletcher and Carrick shut down anything in the middle. Benzema was invisible thanks to the best marker in the game Vidic. We are better than last year when it comes to defending and limiting opponents to very few chances. EVDS still scares me on the occasional cracker from outside of the box but overall, we are very hard to break down.
Where our problem lies is with Fergie’s tactics and team selection. Sorry for saying this but there are times I think he plans on the side of caution. He also has a tendency to mismanage his lineups from match to match. For example, he rests Hargreaves for a vital CL match with Lyon but he plays him the previous Saturday against a useless Fulham. Hargo was bought for the Champions League whereas Fletcher was not. You have a 2-0 lead against Fulham and the game is under control. Leave Ronaldo and Rooney on the bench and let them rest. Hell, they shouldn’t even have dressed against a bottom feeder side just before a crucial CL clash. Also, why take off Ronaldo with only two minutes left? If Lyon equalize he doesn’t play in the extra time and more importantly, he is not there for a penalty shootout. Two minutes woud not have killed him. And if you are going to bring in Hargo, bring him in the 65th minute when Lyon were working hard to equalize. I suspect substitutions like that from lame ass Coca Cola Division managers or Raf Benitez, and not SAF.
One striker up front is really beginning to piss me off. It doesn’t work. Rooney sucks at it and he is also not playing well because his first touch is betraying him. Tevez should always start with him and United should be playing a 4-1-3-3 or 4-2-2-2 formation Whatever way you organize the midfield, make sure Rooney and Tevez are up front and Saha is a sub. And tell Rooney to stop playing the sidelines so much. His job is to score goals and goals are not found out there. Sometimes his hard work and desire borders on stupidity.
Fergie is falling in love with the bad habits of Ronaldo. He has become goal hungry and while that is fine and dandy, he is becoming more selfish with the ball in the opponents third of the pitch. Fergie needs to lean on him a bit and let him know that no wonder how great he is and how far he has come, this still is a team game. If he’s not going to do that, then place him as an out and out striker. I want to see more passes and crosses from Ronny rather than a shot from every conceivable angle. I’d really be pissed off if it weren’t for the fact the lad has scored just as many goals as Tevez, Rooney and Saha combined. And here lies the problem. I’m a bit of a traditionalist. Although I like to see everybody contribute with goals, I still like to see the play funnel into the strikers more often than not. And even if the play did funnel into strikers, none of them are prolific enough and a couple of them tend to play everywhere except where strikers should be plying their trade.
I for one don’t understand such over caution against Lyon when they should have been fearing us. It’s bad enough when we use these tactics in away ties but to have us play that style at OT is a little demoralizing. We won but how confident can we be about the next round?
Sure we can’t thump everyone like we thumped Roma but we can come out with the same attacking formation and attitude. Don’t throw all caution to the wind but then again, make it easier to score. Leaving Rooney alone up front has never worked. Why then use it? All that possession and very very few good shots on goal. It all happens outside of the box. Only Ronaldo knows how to score inside the box these days in the CL.
Fergie is a legend and I for one am in no position to question him and be taken seriously. Still, as a fan I have the right to question some of his ideas and tactics. No manager is infallible and they all make mistakes. Actually the biggest mistake Fergie has made all year is the fact that he never picked up another striker in January. I now know why. Because he had planned on using this stupid formation and have Ronaldo camp himself in a strikers role in the box. NEWSFLASH! Ronaldo is United’s new striker. Might as well forget about Benzema and Huntelaar, the off season may be spent looking for a replacement for Ronaldo’s former position at RM/RW. As Desi used to say to Lucy, I will say to Fergie,
FERGIE…..JOU HAV SUM SPLAININ TO DOOOO!
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I have a comment about comments made on Rooney’s performance, which I think may have been over-critical. Playing as a lone striker against a team with 2 defending mids is not an easy task. It was so packed in area in front of Lyon’s penalty box that passes kept getting cut off.
The game was 12 hours ago so my memory may not be so good. But I didn’t recall any passes Ronaldo, Nani and Anderson made to Rooney. All-in-all, there were very little chances in the first half and I think we only had 2 shots on goal – Ronaldo’s goal, and when Rooney stole a backpass to the keeper. It was only when the game started opening up in the second half, when Lyon pushed forward, that the chances started coming.
As Ahmed and Millz mentioned, Lyon did play well defensively, stepping into passing channels, and cutting off the supply up-front. Any team would have found it hard to break them down last night.
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“Manchester United’s future in Europe hinges on three things: …”
If you ask me, it hinges on just two things:
1) Accepting the simple fact that our defenders and midfielders are playing at the peak of their careers, while
our forwards are only going to improve, which leads me to conclude that we should not try to be Barca 05-06 this
season by dazzling and thumping every team that we come across, and just focus on winning the damn thing. We can
dazzle the world the next year, once this team has actually gelled really well.
2) Figuring out a responsibility for Anderson, that gets the best out of the kid’s outrageous talent.
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Wazza; Great observation on the Rooney gaff in the box. What the Hell was he thinking?
Has everyone noticed or am I the only one but Fergie is starting to resemble Rafa the Rotator in the midfield. Pick a a group and stick with it. This constant tinkering of riches may be fun but it is also annoying. Pick your pair of central guys and choose between Nani and Giggs already. The midfield roulette would bother all of us if they weren’t all so damned good.
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Its scary how Rooney can scuff opportunities but he’s always better when Tevez is in. A few things in that game the score goes our way and with it more confidence and momentum. But maybe its important to have such nights so that we can better prepare in the future.
Its obvious to me that Tevez or Saha must start up front with Rooney to help him fire up particularly Tevez…who has been around; Saha needs to prove himself all over again really. That’s what’s important. Fergie must get that midfield right. If we get a solid partnership the likes of Rio and Vidic it would be perfect; then we can play 4-4-2 more confidently and actually attack with more width and pace.
On thing I will say though is that Fergie is trying to manage his team and sluggishness might be the side effects. Look what it did to Benitez…at least Fergie is much more successful seems to know what he’s doing eh? 22 years now that’s experience!!
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“A few things in that game [go right for Rooney] the score goes [more flattering] our way and with it more confidence and momentum.”
(For previous comment)
Grognard I’m really glad your back for days and games like this shake us up a little.
The man managing has been alright so far in my opinion but I’m worried everytime I see a wacky line-up. But I guess we have to have faith in our players and they haven’t let down so far. But by God I hope Fergie realizes his best team before it gets ugly. I won’t try to second guess the master anymore. Sir Fergie is the venerable leader and he must chose the way to victory for if he can’t find the way we won’t taste the sweet nectars of the Sacred Three (Whatever Champagne the pop at celebrations).
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This is what is happening for long time. When ever crunch game comes Man. Utd Will will be below substandard. It is because of both poor performance coupled with the tatics selected by SAF. As far as performance is concerned unless we change the style rather from individual briliances to flanks, like the days of Giggs and Beckham we will not be able to produce quality performances consistantely. I dont say that individual brilliances are not needed , it is a must but over dependence on one or two players is the major problem of our team. We dont have aquality player in the right flank after Beckham till timeFringe players Like Fletcher, Park Etc. dosent have the material which a right winger of a worlds best team should have. Our Defence is giving us a feeling that it is the best just because of Vidic and to a certain level becasuse of Ferdinand.Many times during the match against Lyion both Evra and Brown was out of position, when they where needed ther. Each position should have specialists in that position, other wise the temporary arrangements will not produce results. Keeping players just for the sake of commercial benifits is not going to produce results. Quality players who are specialists in their position should be picked given resposibility. Saying that we are the best team in the worldand also are the richest is not going to do good for Man. Utd . in the long run and also to win the championships. Many of us say that we have got good bench srength, where is the quality there. players like Fletcher, O’Shea, and Park are not quality players at all and cannot be copared with the world seandards. Players like Giggs, Scholes Neviele has passed their prime and has to be replaced in the first playing eleven. Even after 6 years we are yet to find replacement for Becham in the right wing as well as for Nilstroy in the striker department. SAF has to change his approach and act fast to to make Utd. a consistantly performing team. Paying huge wages for under perfoming players and keeping substandard players due to sentiments etc. is pure waste as far as am concerned.
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I don’t have a problem with SAF’s team selection, nor his tactics.
Together, they are most often brilliant for the job he want to achieve. What we seem to forget is that NO-ONE knows the players and their abilities better than SAF.
I do however have a problem with SAF’s approach. (perhaps its because of an obsession to win the Champions League). This approach/obsession causes him to become overly-cautious (you know, like senior citizen car drivers) and show other teams WAY TOO MUCH respect. I mean, why can’t the other teams start respecting US for a change? Why don’t anyone have respect for the Champions of England? I’m not saying he should take an arrogant approach, but damn!
The same always happens whenever we have crunch games. I can bet the same is going to happen when Arsenal visit OT (and we’ll end up losing).
Whenever we play “our game”, we seem unbeatable. I know we can’t play that way every game in fear of becomming predictable, but damn…a bit more against the “great” opposition please?
Our attackers are the envy of all. Why not use them more/better?
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Grognard et al:
I generally agree that Fergie should stick to the best group to keep the chemistry and overall team form going.
However, I suspect Fergie thinks that it is still to early to do so. There are about 18 games left in the season, assuming we do get into the finals of the FA Cup and Champs League. That’s almost half a regular league campaign and half of those games will be against tough opposition. Fergie’s reason why we lost against Milan and Chelsea (FA Cup) last season was because the team was too tired. This season, he appears to be rotating to keep players fresh.
Yesterday, 6 changes were made to the side that faced Fulham. It was because these 6 players (Rooney, Ronaldo, Anderson, Fletch, Carrick, Brown) did not play or played little against Fulham, gave them the energy to start off the game last night at a high tempo, and allowed us to press Lyon the whole night, not giving them a sniff on goal. If the team hadn’t started at that pace, and allowed Lyon to sneak in an early away goal, it would have been an uphill struggle trying to get 2 goals against that defense!
I think once we are in the final stretch of 8-10 games, Fergie would likely reduce the rotation and play his best players. Between now till then, expect a few more line-up ‘surprises’ and ‘ugly’ matches to come.
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There were a few lessons from last night’s match:
Our back 4/6 is as good as any in Europe. We have nervy moments, but we restricted Lyon, a pretty tasty attacking team, to virtually 1 shot off the post. Wes Brown may be poor as you like up front, but he’s really quite good in defense.
Carrick and Fletcher are very defensive minded when the play together, and someone clearly told them at half time to stop passing the ball forward, and I can’t work out why. First half they looked as though they could keep the ball the whole match.
Anderson was lost in the AMF role. He didn’t make himself available, to frequently tried to dribble out of his own half and wasn’t close enough to anyone to tackle them. A bit wasted.
Nani is actually rather good, he is quickly becoming more effective on the wings than Giggs and Park. Now if he could just stay on his feet and stop moaning. He also tracks back well, which brings me to…
Ronaldo. I’ve loved watching him develop over the past 3 seasons, seeing his awful shooting ability turn into a consistent lethal weapon, his stepovers turn into direct, pacy football, his distribution and connection with Rooney becoming world class – and then he turns in a performance like last night. It seemed in the second half as though he thought his role was ‘pick up the ball turn dribble with head down til at byline, then kick ball somewhere’. He didn’t find his teammates, he didn’t even look for them. He kept getting tackled in important areas, when our defense needed a break. i have no clue where the hell he was supposed to be playing, and neither did anyone else, so eh didn’t offer an outlet when we finaly got the ball. He refused to even attempt to tackle anyone, barring one notable exception on Grosso which was only because he lost the ball in the first place. I think the reason it’s so annoying is because it’s so dissapointing. Grosso picked up a yellow in teh first 30 mins or so – for the rest of that time I’d expect Ronaldo to be tormenting him. But he didn’t. He faded out of hte game, his bright boots only popping occasionally to lose the ball with a backheel that was unnecessary. Sigh.
Rooney was a bit different. He actually showed some truly great touches, and his ability is still apparent. However, I think SAF and everyone else needs to fess up, he’s not a striker. His natural inclinations to get involved means that he’s not offering channel runs to Carrick et al. He also brings defenders back into the packed midfield, when we really need him to spread play by forcing them to be on the back foot, ready to track him back. He always looks to pass when in the box, not shoot. Everything about watching him screams ‘I’m a support striker/attacking midfielder’ and yet we stick all 5’9″ of him alone up top. I no longer understand.
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An off-topic and probably controversial comment:
Arsenal were the first English team to beat Milan at the San Siro… but the only Englishman in the team was Theo Walcott which came on as a 71st minute sub.
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Karl, great point! the commentator for the away leg even said we were ‘dealing’ with lyon. why dont we make them deal with us, we are currently the most exciting, attacking side in europe (unless you read newspapers or watch tv, in that case arsenal are the greatest side ever to play football in the history of the world in their view!). Dont get me wrong, the draw away was a good result and set up the OT leg as an easier tie, but we have to be beating these teams comprehensively and looking a force ineurope if we are going to gain more respect and make sides like barca, AC and real fear US!
dont like one up front, never have, doesnt work for us, we have won titles playing 442, just look at the van nistelrooy years, 1 up front, 1 title in 4 seasons, last year 2 up top and we walked it. lets get at these teams, our defence is the best in europe as well, i sure it could cope with no holding midfielder in front of it.
anyway, good result in the end, wouldav took it when the draw was made, fenerbache would do nicely in the quarters.
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Great win, professionally done against a good side…could have been more attacking at the start of the second half, this was a great United team playing some great and some wasteful football (Rooney, Ronaldo).
An improvement in Europe, the pressing game works well. Lyon were knackered after the first half (players talking on French radio) maybe they should have been put to the sword.
There are a lot of positives:
Anderson will learn from this match, he is a very quick learner
Ronaldo can score like a top striker in a tight space
Brown is harder than we think
Nani and Tevez cover so much ground, this really is the first line of defense and a massive improvement from past campaigns, where teams could stroll up to the United area with players backing off.
Rooney is still young
Hopefully he’ll become a bit more greedy instead of trying to help out his mates.
CB’s are better than ever
Bring on Manucho
Keep Fletcher, latin is great for United but Scottish is still needed in the mix
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I have been following up all the articles and rants on this blog for ages now and one thing I have observed is how most people just tend to base their remarks based on 1 game only! Now suddenly after this game rooney cant play up front while agianst l’arse he was a collosus! same defenders he scared life outta them (gallas/senderos or was it toure?) and the likes of kaka and inzaghi were useless against them yesternight!
while some of us are too fast to castigate the team for boring game (as if every game at OT shud be a 7-1 result!) but we are overlooking how Lyon were playing! Almost all of first half and most of second they had only 1 guy (benzema who was pretty much useless and a non-threat all night). in effect they played 9-1 formation in a game in which they had to score to progress!!! there was hardly any space for creativity really and its really due to class of the players we have that we still created some good chances (I thought we had all the possession in the world all the time! lyon were happy to sit back and break all our attacks nearly 90% of the time! only in final 20-30mins they seemed like commiting any ppl in the attack.
anyway I think it was a very good win against very decent opposition (champs of France). we avaoided any silly accidents, got the result we wanted – what more cud be asked. CL matches are known to be boring affairs most of the time (exceptions are always there) and this game was no different really. I think we controlled the whole game (it was really slow paced one) and carrick, fletch and ronaldo had good game (he scored the winner and was a constant menace all the time but granted he did lose the ball some times but he also was seen in the defense few times!)
& Mr. Prakash it is a measure of united bench strength that we beat a team like lyon (they are no mugs) without the likes of giggs, scholes, OH, saha, tevez and neville! thats 6 of utd’s best players not in the side!
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people, Ronaldo spent half the game trying to run off an injury, the fact that he stayed on the field in spite of his obvious discomfort speaks volumes about his character. It was a well taken goal that still needed a lot of work when he received it. Nani, he needs to grow up and become a team player (he is not ready yet to unseat Giggs from that position yet, it will come, but he is not ready yet AND he needs to bulk up), i found him to be wasteful at times. Anderson is a superb player and seems to be getting better and better each game. all that is missing from his game at the moment is goals, but that will come in time.we played well last night and did what we were supposed to do. i FULLY agree with and understand SAF’s tactics and fully support them. Redd75 makes an excellent point about the rotation policy and we are seeing the fruits of this wise strategy as we get to the business end of the season. the difference about our rotation policy is that the core and nucleus of the team generally stays the same, whereas benitez rotates the entire team ignoring what works and what doesn’t. Our players look fresher this season, we have fewer injuries etc. it bodes well for a possible treble! Rooney played well in his loan striker role, however he did seem to come alive once tevez came on. Grognard, stop trying to seco9nd guess SAF, he knows his job FAR better than you do and he also knows his players far better than you do. AND, if he rates ]the likes of Park et al (as i do) then who are we to question his wisdom, he gets it right FAR more often than not!!) i was pleased with our game last night, it may not have been pretty and exciting but we did what we needed to do, sometimes to win the ultimate prize you have to play ugly and do it (not that we played extremely ugly, just a bit erratically. we played as well as we needed to.
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Jos: You say don’t let one game swing opinion on Rooney, I would argue strongly that his only truly strong striker performance this season was against Arsenal. He’s just not made for that role. He’s not a finisher. Put another way, who would you rather have one on one with a keeper in the 91st minute of the CL final? Rooney or someone like RVN, Drogba or (fat) Ronaldo? We’re a top, top club, with one of the best squads on Earth, we deserve a centre forward playing in position. Rooney shoudl still be the first name on the team sheet, don’t get me wrong, but he’s not a striker.
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Guys, maybe it’s better for us not to win the Champions’ League this year, because I have a feeling that it’s the only thing SAF is waiting for before he retires. What do you prefer for next year: Manchester United as champions of Europe but without SAF, or us reaching -let’s say- the final but losing and SAF continuing being our manager?
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I agree it was frustrating. It is not the first time United seem to struggle to break teams down at Old Trafford. We dominated possession but didn’t have much to show for it. We lack that cutting edge. Against a better team we could have easily lost to a few cheap goals on the counter attack.
We look best when we stretch the play out wide. Unfortunately Ronaldo always cuts in and cannot cross and even if he could our lack of aerial ability means were are restricted to low balls across the face of goal which can be shut out by their defenders.
I think we really need to play Tevez and Rooney for European games. Together they should be worth a goal or two, making us less reliant on Ronaldo who is our top scorer in Europe but can be shut out by the better teams.
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Manchester has the perfect blend of players in its squad. Fergie must keep every player fit and fresh to come into the team to play with full effectiveness. Its very difficult to access the squad and then draw a team leaving international on the bench or out of the squad. You have to explain the player why he is out of the squad despite performing well in training and in his previous match. The good thing is that all the players respect Fergie and the squad rotation policy.
The aspect that we lack is a bit of hight at the front. Unlike other teams, we do not possess the option of crossing the ball to a target man to hold the ball. Hope that Manucho will bring his contribution and offer Manu a plan B
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Mr. Jose am not expressing my views by just taking into one or two matches.This is happening for So many years. Regarding the matches against Lyon, It was because of sheer luck we scraped through. As mentioned by you about the bench strength Players like Giggs, Scholes, Neveile are all passed their prime time. If you look into this year both Scholes and Giggs has not completed full 90 minutes till date and if you compare with past their performence was far below than expectation.Saha , he has not played more than 20 matches fully in the last two season.We have not found till now quality players till date for Giggs and Nevile and for the players like Beckham and Nisteroy who has left the club long back. Regarding Rooney i totaly agree with Mr. Beachrian and with Mr.Destrokto regarding Ronaldo. As far am concerned Ronaldo has to improve alot to become a complete player. But media has Hyped so much and Things has gone to his head.
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Prakash: What luck? Lyon barely posed a threat all night and one one strike off the post for all their efforts. We were under no serious pressure and we never looked in any really danger of crashing out. Also have you checked the stats to back up your claim about Giggs and Scholes not completing 90 minutes, because I get the distinct impression you are wrong.
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Hey guys I may be naive about this but can two English sides clash in the next round? I thought teams from the same country may meet only in the last 4
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Yeah it IS true that Rooney upfront is not a sureshot recipe for success or failure…seeing that he was simply beastly against Arsenal this season and against AC Milan last season at OT, but then he was simply ineffective yesterday and so many other times. However, the SIMPLEST solution is to have Tevez/Saha play alongside him.
I base my solution on the following grounds:
::Rooney+Tevez playing in front of a 4 man midfield::
Start off as an attacking 4-4-2, and when the going gets tough, Tevez can play slightly behind Rooney alongside the midfielders.
::Rooney+Saha::
Rooney can be the second striker and Saha plays as a target man. Rooney can also break the counter-attacks and track back as he loves to do.
Whaddya guys think?
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Great article:However there is a problem with our performance in europe for the past four or five years
except last year,we won the tie purely because of our defence and Rooney is losing his touch playing
as a lone striker and Ronaldo isn’t the same player we saw last year coz he’s scored 30 goals this
season but fewer assists compared to last season…GUYS THIS IS A TEAM GAME……and we will struggle against much tougher opponents if we play like this in europe..fergie should have bought a striker in the summer and looks like teams are finding it easier to figure out our weakness
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I dont think fergies tactics were negative.We played great stuff and they couldnt touch the ball in the first half.The problem lies upfront,Lyon defended with ten men and that guy toulalan is a great defensive midfielder.Its hard trying to break down that kind of a team.Lyon are quality!Not like premiership teams.Rooneys control is poor right now and has been almost all season he was surrounded by too many players and was wasnt good when quality was needed.We cant cross cause we have no height so we have a problem finishing.But we fucking sure do need a striker if we continue with this formation.A clinical one Rooney misses too many chances.Against better wel be OUT.The way benzema held the ball with tight control shows you what a lone striker needs.I was scared each time he got the ball.Maybe manucho…But fletcher is defying all odds.Amazing.I didnt think he could ever improve.Does anyone know the average age of the team yesterday?No outfield player in his thirties i think…
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Mihir,
yes, they can.
In fact, as Fergie pointed out, if both Pool and Chelsea go through, United will have a 43% chance of meeting an english opponent.
I pick Liverpool or Arsenal – let Barca and Chelsea knock each other out.
The ideal opponents would be Fener / winner of Porto-Schalke / Olympiakos though
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yea would be perfect if we face the turks next round the schake in the semis with the arse in the final!
the perfect tie for the 1/4 finals would be barca vs madrid…
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Beachryan; Sorry mate but were you watching the same match I was? Ronaldo was a lot better than what you seem to think. And Rooney’s first touches betrayed him all game like they have all season. As for Ronaldo, he had moments where he really went at the opposition but quite often he ended up with no striker to pass to because Rooney would be looking for girls around the byline. Quite beautiful plays were broken up by lucky tackles or blocks by Lyon’s defenders. And his goal was taken like a true master striker. If it weren’t for some heroic plays by Cris, United may have had 3 or 4 goals.
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Destrukto; I will second guess Fergie as much as I like thank you. That is the right I have as a supporter and a free citizen. I absolutely hate people who try to tell others what they can and cannot do just because they don’t agree with their views. Disagreeing with my views is fine. Let me have it, but you have no right to tell me I have to stop what I am saying just because you don’t like it. I’m not offending or cursing Fergie, I’m disagreeing with his tactics. Whether I am qualified to do so is pointless. None of us are qualified to do so but we do anyway. Why? Because we are devoted supporters who care and who want to win.
Every post has my name on it. In the future do yourself a favor and skip my name when you see it to better protect your sensibilities behind your white picket fence and right wing protectionist wall. Give my regards to George Bush and others who like to quash free speech and free thinking. This may be a blog about sports and something very trivial but I’ll be damned If I don’t stand up to those who try to rule other’s ideas and expression. I hate bullies who try to rule the rest of us with their way of thinking. So SOD OFF and self DESTRUKTO OK!!!
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Agree with grognard…fans have a right to question fergie when he gets it wrong.
the thing about fergie that really frustrates me is not playing two strikers.one striker does not work for us and fergie should always play to our strenghts…attacking football with 2 strikers.
I think fergie is trying to adapt an italian approach in europe…playing overly-defensive and nicking a goal at the other end
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Don’t know if anyone pointed this out already, but did you see Anderson snipe the ball from behind one of the Lyon players and turn within a split second to pick Nani out from 40 yards away. It was bloody marvelous, Scholesyesque I might say. To bad the end result was nil.
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I was just about to say ‘GET IN ROMA, thats 1 hard team out leaving barca’ then the spanish score in about a minute.
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YES!! only 2 teams in the last 8 we should fear, the perfect tie would now be barca chelsea, and hopefully we can get the turks or the dippers if they win.
something tells me we will either get the easiest team or the hardest team which would be a bum for us…
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How can Fergie say that Tevez is like Cantona, AND THEN NOT START HIM IN THE MATCH?. Can you imagine him leaving Cantona on the bench – NO thought not. Tev deserves to start alongside Rooney, because he always seems to snatch a goal in closely fought matches. Hargreaves seemed totally pissed to be sent on for last two minutes – I don’t blame him – its downright insulting. In away matches in the BIG games we should make sure that our combatants who can perform with the same effectiveness as they do at home, are on the pitch. Namely Tevez, Rooney, Vidic, Anderson, Hargreaves, and Evra. United have never really done all that great in away matches in Europe since the treble winning team. But I’m willing to be proved wrong here.
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Prakash varma – we don’t have a quality right-sided player and never have since beckham?? Ronaldo….
We do have good bench strength. Name a side with more able players than us?
I no longer expect much from ronaldo creatively. His performance was similar to many this season. If he just keeps scoring important goals and nothing else then i would say he’s doing his part.
Nani looks a good player and i like seeing him one-on-one with a full back. Why does he need to bulk up?
Anderson was sort of playing in the tevez position and it didn’t really work. That is the position he played in at porto and gremio, he has always been an AMF/SS but in the games i’ve seen he just doesn’t look very good there. He’s definitely a central midfielder.
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don’t u all think that we had opposite tactics in both halves?in the first half when we needed a goal we had tevez on the bench and rooney played alone up front..and in the second when we needed to defend our lead we sent out tevez..and where the hell was hargreaves when we needed to break lyon’s attacks in the second half.. on another note..i watched the game between porto and schalke and our alleged transfer target Bosingwa looked very good..he got some very good crosses in and was always a threat down the right hand side…all the qualities that brown doesn’t have…may be a long term replacement for gary neville. In my opinion most of our plays are through the middle.we don’t have fullbacks who overlap and get crosses in..brown is shit at crosses,evra cuts inside more often than not.It may be because we don’t have a tall central striker..but i fear that most of the good teams in the later stages of the champions league will work that out and tend to neutralize our attacking threat…we need some variety in our attack to keep teams guessing….may be a fit Saha could be the answer but who will put the crosses in?Both ronaldo and nani have shown the tendency to cut inside rather than to go on the outside…neville is probably another TWO WEEKS [till end of season perhaps] away to full fitness and we don’t have another left back…[which is why evra wants more money]
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i for 1 was pleased with the win i think that evr1 here is looking to much on the bad side of things yes i agree we wernt at our best but even not being at out best we beat lyon (the french champions) quite comfortably i cant remeber a time when i was on the edge of my seat thinking wer in danger of being thrown out other than keita hitting the post which was nothing more than a half chance. it was also pleasing to see that we rested players of the calibre of scholes, hargo and tevez we were the dominant side through both legs but htink that we ay need to make more of our chances that game couldve easily been 2 or 3 – 0 if we too our chances. So sorry ahmed look on the bright side dont get depressed
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sorry panks disagree tevez’s impact this season has been phonomenal scoring in all the important games chelsea, liverpool and lyon to name a few so check your facts next time. Fergie porbly said that jus to keep confidence and loyalty in tevez
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Tevez is a fine little player and I for one am glad to have him. However, comparing him to King Cantona is like comparing Diet Coke to a fine glass of French Port wine. You compare Cantona to the greats in the game’s history, not the flavor of the week.
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Grognard I definitely agree with your earlier point on Ronaldo being United’s new striker. Sure he’s a great crosser and all guys, but he tends to cut in more then stay wide now. He wants to score, not to supply. And he rarely tracks back if you compare him to others. I think he would be a good striker, plenty of strikers can also play on the wing. Benzema, van Persie, and Henry who started as a winger. Ronaldo has aerial presence and is a great header of the ball. He is one of the best finishers in the world right now. I think we should stop looking at Benzema, Amauri, and all of these other strikers, because we have Rooney, Tevez, Saha, and now Ronaldo. Agree Grognard that we should be looking for a new winger. Personally, if I had to throw a name out there I would say Aiden McGeady.
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Panks disagree on your comment on Nani. Although I did not see the Lyon game, I would say he definitely stays wide and doesn’t cut in as often as Ronaldo. Nani likes supplying and is good at it; one of the best crossers I’ve seen in a while. He knows when to cut in and gets a few shots in a game, but he is best out wide and I think he knows it.
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Kurt; The problem is finding a great winger who can supply as well as cut in is easier said than done. I like this Ben Arfa kid as he can play wide but he is moody and I don’t see him as a good team player. McGeady is good but I think you are overrating him a bit. Like Hutton he is good enough for a middle of the table team but I don’t think he is good enough to be a starter for United. I say let Ronaldo stay out right and let him do as he pleases. I have my heart set on Huntelaar.
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This is the time of year when everyone gets very nervous and emotions swing from game to game.
Arsenal put in two excellent performances against Milan. Other than that they were thumped by Utd
in the Cup and had two poor performances in the PL, dropping 4 points in the process.
Utd meantime hardly got out of second gear against Lyon but never looked like losing the tie.
Apart from this they have convincingly put away 3 teams 4-0, 5-1 and 3-0.
Only a few days ago Arsenal fans were worried about a run of 4 games without a win and loss of form at the vital part of the season. Now you’d think they had just won the treble!
Reactions everywhere are over the top at the moment.
As for Utd in Europe. I prefer 442 every time. The lone striker thing is a case of changing our
normal game to cater for the opposition. We can score anywhere and on top of that we don’t have
a striker who is good at the lone role.
Over rotation is another possible concern. We have the quality but too much change breaks the
continuity and familiarity in my view. The problem is I don’t think anyone can agree on what is
the best 11 right now.
Finally, Ferdinand and Vidic must stay fit if we are to go all the way. The Lyon match underlined the view that the key to this team is not the skill of Rooney and Ronaldo but the brilliance and resiliance of Ferdinand and Vidic.
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Grognard, there was nothing bushist about my comment at all, there was nothing right wing about it either, stop being so sensitive, grow up!! i didn’t attack you in any way so your response to my comments is a bit childish really. my point is that SAF gets it right nore often than not. ALSO, we don’t know what condition the players were in before the game and if he feels the need to rest and rotate players than that is his decision and he made the correct decision as the result will show. you need to learn to take criticism of your viewpoints and react to them maturely,. that was the reaction of an infant, and yes, i stand by what i say, who are you to second guess what SAF the master does, this is why he is the manager and you are not. get a grip, there’s no need for name calling.
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Destrukto; You have a problem with arrogance and smell of bully. You seem to think that you can tell others how they should think and what they should and shouldn’t do according to your acceptability meter. I am a better judge on whether I felt attacked or not. Your rude and condescending attitude to my views on Fergie were completely out of line and in my opinion very arrogant. How dare you tell me to grow up. I rather doubt you are half my age with half my life experience so once again I say to you with the “destrukto” attitude to SOD OFF.
In the future ignore my posts if you find them so disagreeable and childish. I suggest that you keep your insults and beliefs to yourself if they mean that folks on this blog need to check with you before they make their thoughts and views public. Everybody has a right to question anything regarding Manchester United in this blog regardless of our qualification.
Like you never questioned you boss or political leaders before? Despite the fact you weren’t qualified to walk in their shoes.
As an avid fan of football for 40 years and free thinking citizen, I have every right to express my views. This blog is all about that, whether we are correct or not. None of us are in the position to know better than Fergie but we still make our feelings known because we are passionate fans that care. Then comes a Nazi like yourself who feels he will maintain law, order and discipline on a bleeping football blog. I think it is you who needs to grow up and get a grip of yourself. You seem to think that you are captain of the Think Police. It’s not for me to tell you to piss off from this blog but I will unless you can show me and others some respect and stop trying to control our contributions to this site. Only Red Ranter has that right to control what is said and by who on this site, and NOT YOU.
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panks – evra gets forward and puts crosses in as much as he can.
Evryone’s moaning about the hargeaves sub but we were comfortable without him for the second half so he didn’t need to come on early and the sub was made in the last two minutes to break up the play. Simple. It had nothing to do with resting ronaldo.
Ferguson compared tevez to cantona in the way that he keeps scoring important goals thats all so it is a very reasonable comparison.
Ronaldo is not united’s new striker. He will keep his place in the team in the free role that he has, running from deep. Just because he scores lots of goals doesn’t mean he’s a stiker. The likes of henry were slightly different – he was a failed winger. We are looking for a forward not a winger. Ben arfa is more of a left sided player so he’s not coming, fergusons already made that choice by bringing in nani. Benzema is the no.1 target. Aguero at athletico madrid is probably a back-up option. There’s also berbatov, maybe ronaldinho. Huntelaar’s not even an outside possibility. He’s not good enough. Defoe is a better striker and fergie never went for him so huntelaar’s definitely not happening.
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