Nov 03
Manchester United v CSKA Moscow: Preview
Darren Fletcher is expected to return to a side beset with absentees — to injuries and personal reasons. The manager took time out to shower yet more praise on Fletcher.
“Most people now recognise Darren Fletcher as a big-game player,” said Ferguson. “We have been aware of that for quite a while. Now he is getting an acceptance that he is a very important player for us.
“Our fans see that he is a key player in major games. That has been very important to the lad because it gives him a confidence. He has been missed in some key games recently and yes, it is great to have the boy back.”
He also intends, like all managers, to ensure we qualify to the next stage top of the table. [Video here]
He was doubtful about Rio Ferdinand even making it for Chelsea but defended him. I expressed a bit of concern for Ferdinand; his lack of pace in the City game — as well as against Torres — was worrying. But I also had a nagging feeling that he wasn’t playing at 100%. I think if it’s one week, two weeks or one month, it’s better if Ferguson sits him down and lets him take a break. It will do us better in the long term that way.
Meanwhile Michael Owen believes the Champions League could be the stage that would propel him on to England team reckoning.
“I can influence my chances by playing well and performing in the Champions League has to help. But I don’t go to bed thinking if I will play for England again. I think about playing well for Manchester United. The rest will take care of itself.”
As far as our starting XI goes, Rooney would be out. I saw Berbatov limp out of the Blackburn match, and he would be doubtful, with Park and Giggs definitely out. Owen would be upfront alongside perhaps, Welbeck. Valencia and Nani would be on the wings then with Fletcher certain to return in midfield alongside either Anderson or Carrick. Brown and Evans should be in central defence, Evra on the left, and there is a distinct possibility that Ferguson will plump for Neville at right back.
Prediction: 2-0 to United.
Related items from Red Rants:
- Manchester United drawn with Besiktas, CSKA Moscow and Wolfsburg
- CSKA Moscow vs Manchester United: Preview
- Liverpool vs Manchester United: Preview
- Man Utd v Everton: Preview
- Sir Alex’s men for the third consecutive CL final?
Tags: Manchester United News
Opti (541)
Stephen (479)
RedDevilEddy (459)
Craig Mc (345)
Moscow is my heaven (272)
@Footy4Eddy: It’s too early in the season to say this game is decisive, but one clear fact looms;
If we win we go top, if we loose we are 5 points behind. The stakes alone will make it a compelling game.
Chelsea will want this one – big time, and so there is an opportunity for us if we can stand up to their MF. I think they will want at us early and if we can withstand the storm and provide some counters for the men up front, we in with a good chance.
However if we roll over in the MF and let them mount strike after strike, this will be a very long day for United supporters.
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@Grognard: Not that this has anything to do with your comment up there, but I thought this would interest you greatly.
Especially knowing that you have advocated this kind of thing, and with much venomous opposition!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/nov/06/premier-league-two-division-gartside
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PIG goes hog wild, as he starts to wallow in the muck!!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/nov/05/tomasz-kuszczak-edwin-van-der-sar
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@[OPTI]Madschester United: I’m sorry mate but I just come from a different culture. Yes I saw what he did and it was dirty but he never killed the man and he certainly never crippled him. It was a poke at the ankle and that’s all. What he did couldn’t injure a cat. The other day a young hockey player in junior hockey here in Ontario was banned for the entire season because of a dirty and very fierce hit on another player which left that player in hospital. The media is crying bloody murder. Even with this lad in hospital they think the punishment was far too strict. It’s just the way Canadians and Americans look at this kind of stuff. As long as footy punishes play like that with silly bans the game will never evolve and be accepted by people on my continent. That may not be important to you but to me it is. I want football players to act like men and stop acting like brats and little girls. That means Obertan and the player who did the crappy acting job should both grow up. But I wouldn’t ban Obertan. For what? It was dirty but it was generally harmless. Give him a yellow and be done with it. Save the reds and the bans for serious crimes and fouls that create serious injury. Otherwise let them play. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not condoning cheating, but then again I want the game to be governed by men for men and not for a bunch of girls with dresses. Players act up once in a while. For me it’s no big deal because no harm was done.
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@Anders: Much ado about nothing mate. Sorry but Ronaldo received that kind of stuff three times a game and nothing was ever called.
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@Redrich: Very interesting Red. I need to read more about it because it seems a little confusing to me. In theory it sounds good and makes sense but I do not understand how you can differentiate between the second tier and the rest of the teams below them. They are much closer financially then the top 8 teams in Tier one. I am all for including Rangers and Celtic because the SPL is a joke and has been for 60 years. But I still feel that we should only have one prem league with the trap door welded shut to not allow promotion and relegation. I also think the teams should be reduced to 16 or 17.
I’ll keep my eyes open for more on this because I definitely think something needs to be done or what will eventually happen is the big four will split from the Prem by themselves and join a European Super League.
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@Redrich: That would also explain Foster’s poor form if there isn’t an adequate Goalkeepers coach to help them and if they get no help whatsoever from EVDS. If you ask me, I think it’s a calculated move by PIG to get himself sold because he is not getting any chance whatsoever here. So cause controversy has proven to work in the past. Just ask Beckham, Keane and RVN. As soon as they bitched about a fellow player or the Boss, they were gone. So lets say goodbye to PIG right now.
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@Redrich: Garry Cook of Man City initially came up with the concept closest to what Grognard had suggested — to have a closed Premier League. Of course, he (Garry Cook) was universally laughed at by the press and a lot of bloggers for his lack of understanding of the setup. (He’s a former Nike executive from the US). Last year Phil Gartside of Bolton suggested the model that you just linked to, and it seems to have been rejuvenated. However, even this model doesn’t seem to address the real issue — the financial problems associated with the revenue drop when a club gets relegated.
I am currently reading a book Soccernomics, by the British journalist, Simon Kuper who says the prime difference between North American sport and football in Europe is that football is not a business and businessmen are foolish if they come to buy a club expecting to make a profit. Football, in its current model, is philanthropy. 90% of clubs make losses, but since they are community projects in essence, they are almost always bailed out by banks or some sugar daddy around.
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@Grognard: I think Celtic and Rangers should stick to the SPL. They have delusions of grandeur and it was proven by their pathetic showing in the Champions League year in year out. On current form, Fulham, Sunderland or Spurs could beat them.
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has any one seen inter vs kiev, inter were rescued by Wesley Sniejder
(made one, scored one) last night, and he has been their stand-out player all season. What a shame then that Man Utd who have an entirely inspiration free midfield failed to act when he was consigned to the Bernabeu bargain basement. 
United should have brought him coz he is such a fantastic player and a perfect replacement for ronaldo
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@Red Ranter: You know what this situation brings me back to? United-Chelsea, November 2005. They were clearly the superior team, we had players injured. Guys such as Rooney and Ronaldo were far from the finished product. Keane had just come out to say that practically all the players were shit! We are now in different cirumstances, of cource, but the setting of the game is quite similar. We are underdogs, and many expect us to get a hammering. Our defence is in shambles, coming up against the second best attacking team in England this seasno(Behind Arsenal, you cant deny them being fantastic going forward at the moment). If we lose, we will be 5 points behind, and we will have lost 3 times already this season. We are not Liverpool, 3 losses already is bad. We are only on 11 games, lose on Sunday and we get a loss each 4th game if we calculate it that way. If not win, we should at least get a draw, and we wont get that if we actually go out for a draw. Previous experience has proven that, and Im sure Ferguson knows it as well. To stay back and slow the game down, that is good and all, but we have to consider the possibility of conceding, and if we concede an early goal at the Bridga it could be a really long night, Ive noticed them being surprisingly good on the counter this season. If its 0-0 at half time, then that is well. But like I said, Id rather lose this game and we play our football, because that itself can creep fear into Chelsea. These games have a massive mental effect on the season as well as the point advantage. Lie down, and Chelsea will realise that we are afriad of them, they will feel like the clearly superior team. They may be frustrated if we go there and get a draw playing badly, but it will give them great confidence in themself for the rest of the season.
Go there, and try to play our game and win, and we will have the advantage. They may win, but if we do well against them they will look at us as great opponents. For what all the players sat about “respecting” the opposition, whether it be Rooney, Drogba, Terry or Fergie for that matter, saying and thinking is two different things. If we surprise them they will fear us. That is what I want. Thats what teams did before. They feared us! Now they have respect for us.
If there is one thing I see we lost with Ronaldo leaving, its the fear. A Burnley side would not come out of the tracks like they did and have a go at us with Ronaldo in the team. Last season when we lost to Liverpool, Torres was hanging his head when Ronny scored his penalty. He was afraid, but thanks to the gaffe Vidic did he gained confidence and had a go at us. Look how that went… 
At Arsenal we had a real go at them, but if there is one thing you can count Arsenal to do its to play their football. Whether they lose, are away or meet the best sides in the world, they WILL paly their football. Sometimes it comes off, sometimes it doesnt, but it did that day and when Arsenal are on song, there is little you can do about it. Fulham were the only team who had a go at us from the teams outside the top 4, and they had the bonus of playing us after the game against Liverpool, with Tevez and Vidic out, Scholes getting sent off and Rooney being on the bench. They were also one of the best home sides in the country at that time, so they had confidence. And lets not talk about Barca, from my earlier examples they are certanly not the team I should be talking about. 
Roma, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, Newcastle(2003) and other great teams have been on the recieving end of a confident, willing United team in recent years. We battered Roma 7-1, Chelsea 3-0 and 1-0, when everyone albeit one man expected us to lose, we beat Liverpool 3-0 and 4-0, Arsenal fucking 3-1 in a Champions League semi final, Newcastle 6-2 when they were fighting for a European place, most of those games were won by coming out of the tracks early and having a go at them. We shocked them, and beat them convincingly. Now you may say Ronaldo was in the team that day, and he isnt now. But we have a lot of quality in this side. People may try to deny it, but we do have a lot of quality in this side. Its got lots of potential, that it does, maybe too much! But you must not forget, this is still a Manchester United side managed by Sir Alex Ferguson. We have had our fair share of luck this season, but a team can only have a certain amount of luck until it becomes a habit. We have many good players in this team, we have 20 or more players who would get into most big teams in the world in an instant! Ronaldo, was still just one man. A great and greasy one, but still only a man. If we play with the quality we have on Sunday, and have a go at them, I can easily see us losing…
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@Red Ranter: I think it’s true today that American sports are run primarily for profit. But that is a fairly recent development that has taken hold over the last 15-20 years.
The salary cap in the NFL eg. was a turning point in that sport which limited the owners spending and in a way made it less attractive to eccentric billionaire types that wanted a very large toy to play with on the weekends.
Where I live, the SF 49er’s are a good case in point and experienced great success in the 80′s and 90′s from hugely extravagant spending by it’s owner Eddie DeBartola.
The salary cap (and Eddies questionable life style) put pay to the successes and of course the red ink on the balance sheet.
The parallels are not that far fetched. Even though the FA doesn’t have a salary cap, they punish the red ink with much severity and with restricted spending, teams find it hard to compete and thus thrive.
It’s clear that some form of financial reform needs to occur in the near future, and while they may not follow the American model, survival will the key issue and compromise to the historic norm will have to be made.
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@Redrich: Bye bye little Piggy, hope this opens the room for Akinfeev or Neuer.
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Sir Alex Ferguson, 23 years in charge today. Thanks for all, hope for more…
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@Grognard: Yeah, you’re probably right. The russian made a meal of it and stayed down for 30 seconds before being told by the ref to get up. It’s not like I wouldn’t prefer this to slide discreetly under the carpet anyway. Media hasn’t shown any interest cause he’s a relative unknown. If it was Rooney we wouldn’t be so lucky.
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Shame about that foul from Obertan. He is one of the most exciting players we have. While Nani is very skillful, Obertan has that additional bit of class and composure and intelligence that I think will make him a huge success at the club.
Fletcher apparantely is carrying an ankle injury that will need surgery in the summer. For me that is very worrying as without Fletcher we do not have a hope in hell in big matches. Where the hell is Hargreaves to provide support? In January one of our priorities should be to buy a holding midfielder to provide back-up for Fletcher. If we can get a goalkeeper at a discount before the World Cup raises prices that would be ideal as well.
Then in the summer our priority must be to give Giggs and Scholes their retirement packages and buy a world class attacking midfielder. And depending on Rio’s injury situation it may be worth getting another central defender for back up.
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The Kuszcak thing is complete media bullsh*t. In the interview he’s laughing and it’s clearly a joke. But of course we all know what the media do. I wouldn’t worry/think about it too much.
I know it’s not ‘brave’ or what not, but I fully expect us to get a tonking on Sunday. Looking at 3-0. Can also see Vidic getting yet another red, as the Drogba will do everything in his thesbian power to get him an early yellow, and we all know Vida loves getting a second.
But…
We’ll be 5 points back having lost the two hardset games of the season (Anfield, Bridge) so there’s still lots of hope. We haven’t won at the Bridge since 2002…not changing this weekend. Facht.
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On other notes:
Obertan – we’ve not seen enough of him to know. He’s only played in matches where the defense is tired, and he’s not double teamed. He might be great, he might not. Until he’s started 5 matches it’s not worth thinking about too much. Oh and Anders – where the hell did you come up with a 4 match ban? That’s from the Evra school of ‘completely made up ban durations’
Does anyone know where Owen Hargreaves is? I keep waiting to see his picture from training shots…but none. I’m worried. It’s been longer than Fergie estimated, and not a word. Never a good sign.
Oh and we still need a right back. O’Shea has somehow managed to deceive everyone into thinking that he’s good. He’s not. He’s a decent defender and that’s all. Offers nothing going forward, offers no pace tracking tricky wingers. I don’t get how no one realises this. If I were Chelsea I’d make Anelka drift out and exclusively attack Johnny boy. Seems like a nice fella, and definitely a useful squad player but not first XI quality at United.
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@Anders: Yeah they should look at it. It was definitely hand ball.
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@Beachryan: No it’s from the “constantly being fucked over by xxFA with excessive bans” school. It was just an optimistic estimate
.
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@Beachryan: Rumours are that Maicon is a possibility.
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@Traverse: Ball-to-hand or maybe hand-to-ball? Hard to say, but definitely foot-to-ass.
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Maicon would be an astonishingly good buy – so much so I just can’t see it happening. Everytime I’ve seen him he’s been superb, both defensively and, more impressively, offensively. But, don’t see it happening.
Looks like Kun is defo going to be heading to the Bridge in January. Talented player no doubt, will be great for them but not really what we need.
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@Footy4Eddy: We played that Chelsea game at Old Trafford. It was hailed as a great defensive performance — VDS, Alan Smith, Fletch taking the plaudits. We were hammered by Chelsea and we came out top with a Fletcher headed cross/goal. We won but not because of our attacking style that day.
And I am not advocating fear. I’m advocating common sense.
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Photos from United vs. CSKA match
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@Red Ranter: I was not talking about playing great attacking football. My point was about being brave, playing like men and showing we are up for it, instead of playing chicked-shit football like we did at Anfield.
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@Anders: looked like a shoulder check hand int the face or some combination to keep obertan from making a run but defiantly would have seen a card.
youtube comments were hilarious and the guy does backhand evra with the ref watching so no sympathy from me and i think any ban on obertan should coincide with one on the player he kicked for the backhand.
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@Grognard: yea i saw at least 3 of these last night at my 8yrold niece match. nothing special except the russian ballerina rolling around like a bitch.
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Liverpools next home match has been moved from Sky Sports to the Adult Gay Channel. Apparently the sight of 11 arseholes being hammered is proving to be too explicit for Sky.
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@Red Ranter: Great point. It’s important to note that in America many rich men buy sports franchises not for profit, but as a tax write off or tax shelter depending on the circumstances. It’s far from philanthropy for teams like the Yankees, Dallas Cowboys, LA Lakers and other top franchises, but yes, there are so many teams in so many cities, that many end up being nothing more than charity cases kept alive by owners who use them as a way to fight the tax man by showing him they are losing money rather than making any.
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@Red Ranter: I’m not saying they couldn’t. I agree. But I think they need to be kicked out of the SPL for having maintained a monopoly for 60 years. Scotland and the rest of the teams needs a break from these two Old Firm rivals as they just hog all the glory with their money and support base. Let them come to Prem League and struggle to make it into the top 12 teams every year. It would be a heaping dose of humble pie I think that is long overdue.
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@vanderberg: Don’t get me started on Sneijder. I was one of the loudest critics of United for not going after this player as he was just what we needed and desperately need now. Sometimes Fergie and United just lack the vision to see the greatness of certain players. What’s really sad is that he could have been bought cheap during Madrid’s fire sale.
If people wonder if whether Fergie actually has control of any of the Ronaldo money, feel less assured he DOESN’T. Because any smart man would have sold Ronaldo and received a few of the castoffs at Madrid in trade. That didn’t happen because the Glazer’s wanted nothing but money. Money they needed, players they didn’t.
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@Beachryan: im fine with vida seeing yellow or even red vs dogbreth as long as it means the struck match looking dragqueen catches a good boot up the ass
i hate that guy vida should kick him off the pitch like EVERYONE does to United.
But my only “wish” for the game; is that it is won or lost by players in red or blue and not decided by the feking refs. Too many ifs and buts in our last few performances that had nothing to do with our playing ability, but by the handcuffs and straightjackets put on our team by the refs inability to get over Fergi’s comments on one of their own.
get over it you bunch of muppets.
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@Traverse: haha
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@Dan: nice
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@Beachryan: Hargreaves to be back in training in 10 days….or at least thats what SAF is saying
Lets keep our fingers crossed
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@radzio: my favorite
who is this fish faced f@*ker
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@Footy4Eddy: Mate, all the positive talk in the world is not going to change the fact that I truly believe that we will get our asses handed to us on a silver platter on Sunday. We do not match up well with this club and our injuries and poor form will compound our problems. Honestly, I think we would have a hard time beating them at OT, but at the BRidge, forget about it. It’s time people woke up to the truth about our club. I especially think it’s time Fergie woke up to the truth about the club. That we are woefully inadequate and struggling at numerous positions and because we are playing tactics that are destroying the fabric and mojo of this club by the day.
The team needs a fresh approach and it needs an injection of 4 or 5 new players and the casting off of about 3 or 4 older or less successful ones. This is a club on a slow but steady decline. Frankly mate, we are vastly overrated and we are actually overachieving points wise. Our injuries are going to catch up with us and although we are not going to hit rock bottom like it seems Liverpool is destined to do, we are still in a world of hurt with no clear sign that anything concrete is going to be done to fix the numerous problems on this team. So be positive all you like mate, your age and bright outlook on life grants you that but take it from an old war horse like myself, i’ve been around the block a few times and I have seen the symptoms that are affecting our team in numerous other sports franchises before. In all those cases it has to get far worse before it gets better. The only chance we have of preventing a slide by this club is for the Ronaldo money to be made available to Fergie and then for Fergie to spend it wisely and aggressively. Two things I do not see happening. But I still would like to be optimistic enough to believe they could.
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@Redrich: And yet that financial reform that is possible in closed leagues leagues like the ones in North America are impossible in leagues that have trap door setups including relegation and promotion. Above all, unlike North America where teams compete with no outside interests, English football competes with the rest of Europe and South America for players and in certain competitions. To cap teams only in England will severely stifle the ambitions of England’s bigger clubs in their pursuit of foreign players and in their pursuit to win European trophies.
I just don’t like a salary cap. I would be more happy with a luxury tax like they have in baseball that charges teams who exceed a certain limit in spending and then throws that money to the other teams. And yet I am a bit of a capitalist in this area as I feel teams are responsible for their own success and failure. All the more reason why I want a closed league with no minnows allowed to come in and suffer from no cash flow and from delusions of grandeur. Only big clubs with big stadiums and a large support base need apply. Then let them fight it out for supremacy without the fear that a last place team will lose everything by being relegated. That security will allow them a chance to rebound the following year and try to improve because they have not been cast out of the league and because they haven’t taken a critical financial hit. If anything, they received money from the top clubs who pay out the luxury taxes.
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@Dan:
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@Anders: Media also avoids it because it was against a Russian team and not an EPL team. They are not about to shoot one of their own in the foot when it comes to the Champions League. If they did, they would get a royal bollocking form Fergie and from many others.
I should also point out that in American football their is a 10 yard penalty for something called clipping. Basically tackling or hitting a player without the ball from behind and below the waste. It has caused many a career ending injury many times and yet, it is only a ten yard penalty. No banishments or fines whatsoever. So it’s really all about perspective.
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@Beachryan: I agree that I think we will get royally whacked. I do not see us being able to score more than a goal and I do not see our suspect defense that surrendered 3 at home to an inferior CSKA side being able to shut down Chelsea in what is also the biggest game of their season in front of their fans. Any way you cut it, it’s just not in the cards. If we can actually come out of the Bridge with a point or even a shock win, it would be an incredible feather in our cap and a major confidence booster. But it’s not going to happen. I won’t rule out a draw but personally, I am predicting we lose 1-3 and somebody is definitely going to get a red card. Don’t know who, but somebody is.
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@Beachryan: Hargo is doing fine but had a minor setback when he acquired a calf strain which has kept him form training for a few days. He’s still on schedule to return probably by early in the new year, possibly in December.
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@Grognard: I would be more happy with a luxury tax like they have in baseball that charges teams who exceed a certain limit in spending and then throws that money to the other teams. And yet I am a bit of a capitalist in this area as I feel teams are responsible for their own success and failure. All the more reason why I want a closed league with no minnows allowed to come in and suffer from no cash flow and from delusions of grandeur.
A capitalist system means everyone regardless of standing is allowed to setup shop, and simultaneously fail if run badly. You are advocating clubs to be allowed to run without the fear of relegation which is not even close to capitalism — it’s a get out of jail card for running a club poorly because they aren’t doomed to failure of relegation when run badly.
Luxury tax and “spreading that extra money over to the others” sounds like socialism to me.
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@Traverse: Maicon is a great player but he is 28 and does not really fit United’s buy under 26 policy. He would still be a great buy for two to three years until Rafael is truly ready to emerge. He would also be a great tutor to Rafael and Fabio because of his Brazilian background. I do not see Inter letting him go though. Why would they do that? Seriously. The best RB in the world would cost a lot of money even at his age. Chelsea or Man City money, not United chump change money. If he goes anywhere, it will be Chelsea. or Madrid.
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@Grognard: I’ve said this before, but I find it impossible to think that promotion/relegation will be eliminated. It’s such a fundamental part of the way most people inside and outside the game think!! The proposal of such would create opposition so immense that it would be quashed before it had a chance to stand on its feet.
The way forward will undoubtedly be a step here and a step there until such a time when the goals have been accomplished or resistance to more radiacal reforms have been broken down.
The one proposal that would make it harder for cash strapped clubs to gain promotion to the PL, goes some way to answering the concerns that you expressed.
It’ll be interesting to see how all this goes!!
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@Beachryan: Not really what we need? Did you watch his performance against Chelsea? He’s exactly what we need mate. He is the replacement for Ronaldo that we desperately need.
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Also, trust me when I say I am not dismissing the franchise model off hand. I have been doing a lot of reading on sporting structures recently, and it’s interesting to see the commentary on a lot of widely respected American soccer blogs that cover the MLS and US Soccer in general who are actually calling for promotion relegation to be introduced in their league — but with financial prudence involved.
I actually think the franchise model works best when there is no league existing in a country and you want to build it from scratch. The MLS and the A-League in Australia have done that and I think the’ve got it right. Although I would argue that the only way MLS is going to look better is if they increase their ridiculously low wage cap.
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@gator: The one positive over the past three or four years is that Vidic has owned Drogba most of the time. Consider though that since Mourinho left Drogba was in turmoil and his attitude and desire were poor until this year’s resurgence in form and attitude. This coincides with a poor drop in form by the once very solid and dependable Vidic. Not a good omen.
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500!
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