Nov 03
Manchester United v CSKA Moscow: Preview
Darren Fletcher is expected to return to a side beset with absentees — to injuries and personal reasons. The manager took time out to shower yet more praise on Fletcher.
“Most people now recognise Darren Fletcher as a big-game player,” said Ferguson. “We have been aware of that for quite a while. Now he is getting an acceptance that he is a very important player for us.
“Our fans see that he is a key player in major games. That has been very important to the lad because it gives him a confidence. He has been missed in some key games recently and yes, it is great to have the boy back.”
He also intends, like all managers, to ensure we qualify to the next stage top of the table. [Video here]
He was doubtful about Rio Ferdinand even making it for Chelsea but defended him. I expressed a bit of concern for Ferdinand; his lack of pace in the City game — as well as against Torres — was worrying. But I also had a nagging feeling that he wasn’t playing at 100%. I think if it’s one week, two weeks or one month, it’s better if Ferguson sits him down and lets him take a break. It will do us better in the long term that way.
Meanwhile Michael Owen believes the Champions League could be the stage that would propel him on to England team reckoning.
“I can influence my chances by playing well and performing in the Champions League has to help. But I don’t go to bed thinking if I will play for England again. I think about playing well for Manchester United. The rest will take care of itself.”
As far as our starting XI goes, Rooney would be out. I saw Berbatov limp out of the Blackburn match, and he would be doubtful, with Park and Giggs definitely out. Owen would be upfront alongside perhaps, Welbeck. Valencia and Nani would be on the wings then with Fletcher certain to return in midfield alongside either Anderson or Carrick. Brown and Evans should be in central defence, Evra on the left, and there is a distinct possibility that Ferguson will plump for Neville at right back.
Prediction: 2-0 to United.
Related items from Red Rants:
- Manchester United drawn with Besiktas, CSKA Moscow and Wolfsburg
- CSKA Moscow vs Manchester United: Preview
- Liverpool vs Manchester United: Preview
- Man Utd v Everton: Preview
- Sir Alex’s men for the third consecutive CL final?
Tags: Manchester United News
Opti (541)
Stephen (479)
RedDevilEddy (459)
Craig Mc (345)
Moscow is my heaven (272)
@Red Ranter: Oh well, I don’t know – I prefer it this way maybe cos it makes the knockout stage more exciting after you’ve waited and waited for the group stage to end. And in terms of logistics, it works too. The grand slams have a week of all-day matches for it’s format – you don’t want to have 8 or even 16 matches a day mid-week do you? It would be a nightmare for UEFA as well!
On a more lighter note, doesn’t it make it sweeter when Liverpool can’t get through the “group stage” i.e. the first round? cos you know being the “cup” team they are, they would have probably sneaked their way into the semis at least! That’s the other advantage of having a initial league format; it ensures only the worthy teams get through.
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@Redrich: You cant compare clubs strength by looking at player for player.If they give you the arsenal team,player for player,how many would start on our team?But it goes further than that.The arsenal team is a well oiled machine,and even if you get all stars,without the team mentality,yuo are fucked.
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@[OPTI]Madschester United: United v Armenian champs could be meaningless, but it ensures United won’t be cocky enough to stick a carling cup squad in (something we could afford to do against CSKA.)
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@Footy4Eddy: Rossi is a very food player, but I d=still don’t think he’s good enoughto warrant a place in the squad let a alone in the starting eleven.
Right now I think that Welbeck and Macheda (and maybe even King) are showing signs of real potential. Rossi was not willing to sit on the bench so I don’t think that in retrospect we can have any qualms about letting him go.
For me it seems he turned out to be a decent player, but not the world class talent – new Del piero thing he was touted to be.
Macheda imho has got something special – still can be a handful and is making a claim at a younger age than Rossi. He might be more adapted to england’s ruggedness with his size – I just hope he played a bit more like someone his age should be playing – with energy and funning, but he often looks like an old wily technical striker.
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@Grognard: Andy Cole GOT ten shots a game because he was the best at moving into space and making runs. Sure his finishing was dodgy at times but the amount of service he got was also due to his working his ass off.
But true, the current midfield doesn’t create half, maybe even the third of the chances that 11-16-18-7 created.
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@NicoQB: It’s a bit of both mate. You must remember we had Becks-Keane-Scholes-Giggs at their absolute peak. So it has to be a bit more than just Cole moving into space.
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@Redrich: Certainly not a shock for me as I brought that point up about a month ago myself. I stated back then that the only positions on the field where we were better than Chelsea was Rooney and Vidic. We were close or tied in certain positions like LB, GK, RW but everywhere else, we take a hit. Now I would say that we also are losing at GK and LB too. I still think Valencia at RW is better than anybody Chelsea have at that position because Joe Cole is far from being himself. But here is the thing. I don’t think that they are massively ahead of us in all positions except in midfield. We just have nothing to compete with Lampard, Essien and Ballack. I suppose at this point in his career Ballack is no better than Fletcher but in my books, he is no worse either. But nobody in our midfield comes to within light years of Lamps and Essien. As for Drogba, well he is ahead of Berbatov only in the fact that Berba is not fitting in well with United’s system and players. I still think Berba is a class player with incredible skills so I will never say that Drogba is a better player. Both are great players but so different in so many ways.
Sad times indeed because the Boss has been handcuffed in my opinion due to the lack of money to get the players he needs to rebuild and freshen up the team. He has had to rely on young players that are either not ready to compete at such a high level, or the old players who are past their prime and cannot be counted on to compete well against top opponents. Fergie has created almost a poor political model of a team. Instead of the upper class he substitutes them with the older class. Instead of the lower class he substitutes them with the youth class. What is missing here is the declining quality and depth of the middle class. It’s like looking at America’s political and social climate but through football terms. Very disturbing and yet, unless he can unleash some very heavy spending on the transfer market, I cannot see things getting better because I have very little faith in most of our young players. I think a number of our members on this blog build a lot of these kids up to be something they are not, and that’s future world class players. We need to buy a half dozen great players yet we have no money to do it with. So Fergie is going to have to start selling before he can buy. I see the door wide open right now for him selling Nani, Carrick, Foster and possibly even Berba.
I am just hoping and praying that all along he has had the Ronaldo money and he can spend it. I just doubt it.
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@[OPTI]Madschester United: No keeper is perfect every game and sometimes you just don’t get the lucky break or bounce. Still, I have watched both consistently for the past two to three years and trust me mate, they are both the real deal. But here is my theory based on years of following United and studying the Boss. Just watch, he will sign Akinfeev. Why? A couple of reasons. He is easier to sign and won’t cost as much but also, he probably is available in January where I am pretty sure both Germans could not be had until after the World Cup. Finally, the number one MO of Fergie’s career in signing many a player is having watched or managed against the player in a game or two. Fergie is fickle like that. He needs a player to play against his United and excel and then he gets really excited and goes on an impulse buy. Therefore, although I like Akinfeev a lot, Fergie will break my heart and buy him over the two superior German lads. I just have a gut feeling about it because I know the way the man thinks. Too many of our players have been bought that way. Cantona, Keane, Cole, Yorke, Ronaldo, Nani, Carrick, Valencia etc etc are all cases of players who impressed against United and were bought for that reason. Pretty narrow minded of him but he has been successful with this buying strategy on numerous occasions as well. I do hope that this may also urge him to go and buy Milos Krasic.
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@[OPTI]Madschester United: I agree except for one factor, Roman’s wallet is full and he has the money to retool the team. If the team fails again this year to deliver serious hardware, he will gut the team of some of the older players like Ballack, Carvalho, Joe Cole, Malouda, Kalou, Anelka etc and go after a bunch of new players. The ones that can be counted on will it seems always be Lampard, Drogba, Terry, Cech, A Cole and Essien. He can build around those players and get better. Chelsea fans can be assured that he will spend money but of course after this season the transfer ban imposed on them could hurt them for a year or two. Also, they will be missing enough players who will be going to play for their African teams in January and that could derail their title hopes. I don’t think it will but the possibility is there. Essien, Drogba are not easy players to replace on a pitch and maintain the quality of play they have had of late.
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@Redrich: I do think that we have far superior depth than they do. After three or four players on their bench, they fall way short in replacing starters who are injured or away on international duty like this January. We have many young and older subs and reserves who have been used and who have played well enough to fill in which keeps us competitive in times of injury crisis, don’t you think?
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@Red Ranter: That’s the way to think RR. I agree. Go back to the old model which for me made for a much superior and even more unpredictable tournament.
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@[OPTI]Madschester United: For what it’s worth I would seed teams for the first two rounds and then i would let it be random. Top 16 teams do not play each other in the the round of 64 and round of 32. Or I might reduce that to the top 8 teams that get the seeding. What do you think?
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@Red Ranter: Yeah agree but I’ll always underline how for the same game played with the same players Solksjaer would have got less opportunities than Cole because Cole was the best player at making runs and finding himself in great scoring opportunities.
Such a shame that there was some ounce of truth in oft quoted banjo – cow’s arse statement…
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@Red Ranter: It’s kind of funny but about six months ago I offered up the very same concept but back then I got very little feedback. I think your idea is fantastic and it would accomplish all the things we want from the Champions League. Above all, it would bring back much more excitement and many more surprises than the present system does. One more thing I would do to make it fair for countries, don’t allow multiple teams from one country to play each other in the first two rounds. Nothing worse than United playing Arsenal in the round of 64 or 32. THe fourth pace English team would not be a seeded team and therefore, must be kept from playing another English team so early on in the competition. Same goes for other countries too.
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@antsBoy: Most of the time the cream will rise to the top and you will see plenty of those match ups from the round 16 down to the final. You’ll also get a lot of great match ups in the round of 32. It’s that first round where the greats will play the minnows, but it has to be that way in order to allow more teams into the competition. Great thing about the round of 64. After just two games, it gets reduced all the way down to 32 where it is now. From that point on, there is always possibility of great match ups.
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@NicoQB: Cole received the service mate. Sure he worked hard as did Yorke and other back then but the midfield and our fullbacks back then delivered passes and crosses galore into the box. The system allowed him to be on the end of a lot of those passes and crosses. Our present system is not only slow and defensive, but it asks far too much of our forwards and forces them to not always set up camp in the box. But still, i can’t tell you how many times I have seen Berbatov in an ideal spot in the box but the ball never gets to him.
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@Red Ranter: Neville and Irwin were also great back then at overlapping and delivering high and low crosses into the box. We get none of that now from any of our RB’s and Skinned Sausage makes great runs and overlaps but his end product is always awful.
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@Grognard: I didn’t watch the CSKA game but I do remember now that I once saw something special in Krasic. He does look an extremely gifted player in the Kanchelskis-Nedved mould.
But now, lo and behold, Arse, Chelski, Citeh and all and sundry wll be looking at him while we will be signing another argie…
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The team i want to be played this weekend(and it sickens me)
———————–VDS——————–
–brown——vidic——–evans——–evra
———-anderson———–fletcher—————
———————–carrick———————–
—-valencia———————————-rooney
————————–Berbatov——————
This teams is all about not conceding, rather then trying to score. Based on current form, id take a draw right now, hopefully the team fergie puts out will be capable of this.
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@Grognard: My thoughts were on the game Sunday, and so the comparison was drawn because of that.
It’s a yardstick for us at this point in time and one that may or may not change as the season progresses. I hope that Chelsea’s squad tires and that the African Cup takes it’s toll on the depth of their squad, but anything can happen in the future to effect the quality/depth of our own team as well.
I think the depth of our squad has been tested so far this year and unfortunately we are seeing some cracks here too. Our defense seemed to be our rock going into the season, with player after player lined up to fill-in for injuries and so forth. But what we are now seeing is shambolic displays of defensive play that is putting our results in jeopardy.
What could have been said going into this season, was that SAF believed he had another fledgling class of youngsters that were ready to light up this league, it was an exciting thought, and one that many of us bought into.
But what we know now, from our own observations and SAF’s reluctance to fledge them, is that these players are a long way from ready!!
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@Dan: Dont ask me why, but I have a good feeling about the Chelsea game.
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@Dan: When you play for a draw, you never win.
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@Grognard: To be fair, this closed-mindedness of fergie behalf has brought outstanding players to United. Your list is almost all Utd-legends.
@Grognard: I do not like seeding of too many teams so maximum 8 teams get seeded based on either last year’s competition or UEFA coefficients — though I like the idea of only seeding 2 or 4 teams (semifinalists and finalists) and having teams from the same country can play each other in the last 16, like you said.
I may try to set this up in FIFA (except the seeding) and select ECL teams and see who comes out on top after a couple of simulations.
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@Johnsom33: If we come for a draw, we will lose b/c Chelsea are too good to be played like that. If we come out swinging I think we have a better chance to (a) entertain and (b) win.
Of course, in the ECL final against Barcelona, we came out swinging and missed an early opportunity… had it gone in, the game would have been different. Instead, we made a mistake on defence and it cost of the game… Oh, but oh, but oh… what football does to men!
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@[OPTI]Madschester United: You cannot base seeding on the previous year only. It’s got to be a five year cumulative ranking. Last thing we need is for some shock surprise team to make the last four and then steal a top eight seed for the following year. If you base it on five years of total results, the cream definitely rises to the top. I am also for taking the top eight champions in Europe from what is widely perceived as the top leagues. England, Italy, Spain, Germany, France, Holland, Russia, Portugal. For me that is fair because I think there should be a reward for finishing first.
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@[OPTI]Madschester United: But you could draw — and I’ll take a draw right now. Given the threadbare nature of our probable first XI, I think Sunday can be the exception.
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@Red Ranter: Of course, playing for the win can lead to a draw. I just think regardless of our tactics, Chelsea will score at least one goal. Therefore, if we play defensively we will not be able to respond properly… but, alas, Fergie knows best.
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@Grognard: I agree. I think winning the league should provide some bonus in the ECL over being 2nd, 3rd, or 4th — btw, I do not think 4th place warrants a champions league place.
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@[OPTI]Madschester United: I was advocating a safety first approach considering we seem unable to take any initiative. If they do however score, it usually tends to wake the players up and they automatically go bonkers in the attack. Considering Chelsea’s dominant form and our relative lack of creative spark, we should look to start out focused more on discipline, to make up for our defensive mini-crisis.
Once we settle, we could get ambitious. That’s all I’m saying.
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@[OPTI]Madschester United: I think we’ll play a 4-4-2 and expect a MF of Valencia, Fletcher, Anderson and Giggs.
It would be foolish to play defensively and try to get a draw or a smash-and-grab victory – because of the feeble nature of of our defensive play.
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@Redrich: I think Ferguson will go with a 4-3-3 against Chelsea. Fletch Anderson Giggs in MF Rooney, Valencia, Berba in attack.
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@Dan:
That’s pretty much the team I’d play minus maybe O’Shea. Brown I think has not looked as steady but, maybe he wouldn’t be a problem at right back.
Other thing is I’d play Anderson in front of Fletcher and Carrick. Anderson can cover more ground than Carrick and would press more. Carrick was getting suck in during the Blackburn even if people didn’t appreciate it on the day and dwelled on the lack of craft when he played a defensive shield role.
There is no shame in playing this formation for Sunday. Chelsea are playing well right now, we aren’t. It is on their patch as well. We must look to defend well first and score on the counter or through a set pieces for which they’ve been a bit vulnerable at.
I think they are going to be a bit over-confident. Everyone has cooing about them, even our own supporters are “scared”. Provided that the players we put on the pitch don’t play scared and go out to really show them that we are United, the Champions and if they want our crown, they better be ready to pay in blood.
I hope Vida plays with a chip on his shoulder and really gives Drogba a beating. Let Drogba get a yellow for diving (or red trying to slap him).
Chelsea have the most to lose if they can’t secure the win at home with their form against our “lack of form”. So I think they’ll leave us some chances and we MUST take them when they come our way.
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@Grognard: Its good and all to have a United fan in the team, just that reason makes me consider him because honestly, Ive never seen him play! Its hard for me to consider to buy a player Ive never seen before, because I cant give a fair opinion on him. So until I actually see him play, Neuer and Akinfeev are above him on my shopping list.
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Why are we making excuses for Ferguson’s low technical standards? He has always been like that. Or maybe since we won the treble. He tried to switch to the continental style after and we all know how the quality of our football actually dropped since. Then he got himself a continental assistant and things began to shape up a bit. He is just not good with tactics and I’ve said it a million times already. How can we logically conclude that the reason he chooses these counterproductive and illogical tactics is because he doesn’t have faith in the players? Doesn’t make any sense at all. The reality is he and Phelan can’t do tactics. That’s all. That’s not his thing. If the reason is he doesn’t have faith in the players he has then how do you explain him playing the very same “useless” players in positions they know nothing of? How do you explain Rafael in central midfield? Or the selection of the most static midfielders in football history against the monstrous and hungry and angry Mascherano? How logical is that? Even with useless players? At least they should have some sort of ranking in their “uselessness” and suitability in matches. The tactics against Burnley were totally ridiculous. The same against Sunderland and Besiktas. In fact in the majority of our matches. Clearly an even more ridiculous line up awaits us on Sunday. Our personnel is fine and I share Eddy’s view on all of them. It’s the tactics that are clearly flawed and no matter who should come to Old Trafford the team won’t improve till that is sorted out. I’ll give you Berbatov as an example. He came with a magnificent record as a lethal striker and master creator of goals. But how come every top player that comes to us begins to diminish only when they get here. Here was a proven goalscorer in all leagues he played and in Europe and on the international stage. Suddenly he can’t do it anymore as soon as he gets to mighty United. Alan Smith at one point was one of the most feared strikers in England and then what happened? Ferguson that’s what. Tactics. Veron? Tactics. Forlan? Team selection and tactics. Rooney? Tactics. So no matter if Messi or Iniesta or Diego or any one of the Spanish Davids or Ribery come as long as that isn’t sorted we’ll remain on that merry go round. It’s especially worse if you are a somewhat versatile player. David Silva will become the next John O.Shea within a season
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@Red Ranter: Seriously? I would choose Macheda. Younger than Rossi and has achieved more with us. He may be less skillful and not quite the agile striker than Rossi was, but I would rather have Kiko in my team. Stronger, more mature and has a hunger to score that I never saw in Rossi…
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@Dan: Am I seriously the only one who thinks, honestly believes that United will actually beat Chelski on Sunday?!
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If I see United go to Chelsea on Sunday just to defend and to try not to lose, I am gonna be discusted. You will never get a result against Chelsea if you go there afraid. Youve gotta be brace, confident and actually attack them! If we defend, it means we think they are better than us and that will automatically remove some of the confidence and I tell ya, in the big games confidence has a lot to say. A lot! Thats what makes a big-game player. Ronaldo, Messi, Drogba, and also Rooney a time back. Their confidence in themselves usually make the difference if these games, and I will need them all to show that they are going to Chelsea to get a result. Not a draw, but a win. If not only for winning and putting us first in the table, then just to shut those fuckers up!
Our big games players are gonna have to be on top form. Anderson, Fletcher, Rooney, Vidic and Evra, all will have to perform their best.
I`d rather die like a man than live like a coward
Remember that, follow that mentality and we will not lose. Id rather us losing 2-0 going down fighting or draw 0-0 or lose 1-0 playing like chickens. Some times, its more than just about the result of the one game, the whole season could depend on this game. Sunday is gonna be massive, and I want us to just fucking beat them! For once!!!
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To be honest I liked Rossi a lot and especially because of his skill and the fact that bar Ole, at some point he was our most clinical striker. He also possessed great skill and eye for goal and was quite creative. I think overall he always was the better player. But then Kiko is special. His turn and shot from Tony’s pacy pass was class. The control he has in the box is the real deal. I think in terms of finishing he could end up better than Rossi as he matures. His header against the post was something only Inzaghi can manufacture in a split second. I was hugely impressed by him on Tuesday. I’ve watched him in the reserves and he can bury them with ease plus he has shown the strength and balance of a true Italian striker together with a ruthless desire for goal. Typical Italian
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Just read Ronaldo got another setback injury wise… May be out until February now because his ankle requires surgery.
I like Ronny, Ive got respect for him. He did a lot for us, and he has only been respectful after he left. To see him suffering makes me sad, but I draw joy from watchin Real fuck up. Its like, I want Ronaldo to do well, but I want Real to do as bad as possible. 
Maybe that Pepe witch was actually onto something…
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I wonder if UEFA will have a look at this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRaXu0wDUic.
A very cowardly act by Obertan, and seemingly unprovoked. He deserves a 4 match ban to be honest. Too bad cause I liked his contribution in the game apart from that.
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@Footy4Eddy: Although it is not the ultimate in determining a players ability, go to YouTube and look at the numerous Adler video’s to get a pretty solid idea of how good he is. You cannot use Youtube videos to judge a regular player because so much is not seen of their overall game but YouTube is pretty good at determining a couple of key skill sets when it comes to keepers.
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@Eddy- I’m very optimistic usually but not on this game. Everything is stacked against us. They do have the best midfield in the British Isles and their strength can be overwhelming. But that’s not the main problem. It’s their fluency. They are just well organized. Too well organized. And that’s the big difference. But you see these things don’t just come like the winter snow. They have come up with a system to play with and more importantly, they have stuck to that system. The dangerous and efficient diamond formation used before at Milan by their coach. He used the same system I think at Parma. The most important thing now, that I believe distinguishes us from them, is they have selected a first team and like the system, they are sticking to it. From midfield they’ve got Essien to break things down and provide energy in the middle like Gattusso at Milan. Ballack in front of him to work on the edges of midfield and across like a sort of midfield link within midfield. A deep playmaker. Like Pirlo. Lampard to play as the creative and driving force. A sort of attacking free role, bursting through the middle or flanks. Like Seedorf. Though this system is more of him through the middle and Ballack on one side of midfield. Then Joe Cole aiding the two strikers from the right. They have stuck with that and the players know their exact roles and where and how their teammates play. That’s how they can be fluent and play like a well oiled machine.
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@Anders: Chippy and dirty but worth nothing more than a yellow card. The opponent embellished it big time with overblown thespian histrionics. Do you want this to be a man’s sport mate or a sport for little girls in dresses?
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@Anders: Should be fined by Utd. However, we need to make sure that it was indeed unprovoked before condemning Obertan. It seems bad tho!
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@Grognard: Dude, he kicked him with no ball around and from behind — a man should not be coward.
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What has been the case at United on the other hand? I’ve already talked about tactics but the fundamental thing is team selection. How many midfield combinations have we witnessed since day one? How many different roles have the midfielders played in different games? At Burnley Anderson was a left winger and Ryan Giggs started in the middle. Against Moscow in Russia, “Headless Chicken” was behind Berba. At Spurs he was ahead of Paul Scholes, who in turn took a much deeper and more defensive role. Needless to say he went to the showers early. Just some of the many examples of the lunacy in selection and roles. It is not a mystery to me why we have been playing a disjointed form of football. Imagine if from day one, having decided that our system is 4 in mid and two upfront and stuck to it. Then decided on our 1st choice players esp our 2 in central midfield(Anderson and Fletcher imo). Rooney and Berba upfront, Tony on the right and uh um, Nani on the left. Or whoever else. Thing is they’d have got used to each other by now playing telepathically and fluently. But ah well. That’s Utopia for a United fan. I watch football extensively. Spain, England, Italy, and at times France and Portugal. I have to say I’ve only seen this type of rotation and role changes in two teams. Manchester United FC and Liverpool FC. It is a real shame
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@Grognard: I fail to see anything remotely manly in kicking down an unsuspecting opponent from behind.
When I think about it there was an altercation between the same two players after the equaliser, and both were booked (Semberas was sent off as it was his 2nd yellow).
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@Footy4Eddy: I’d rather die like a man than live like a coward
Lofty ideal, great in theory. And that’s the reason why it should remain theoretical. 99% of the time I’d like United to play attacking football. But we have to be realistic/sensible and play to our strengths when the situation demands. And that situation is this weekend. Start slowly, settle down, and if things are going our way, go for it. Going off the blocks swinging for the sake of it is not necessarily the best tactic always. It’s naive.
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@Red Ranter: Sounds like a diamond in the rough!!
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@Anders: You’re creating a storm in a teacup mate. This kind of shit happens all the time, and was most certainly payback for something occurring between the two earlier.
Obertan has big balls as well as a big head!!
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