Mar 20
Manchester United vs Liverpool: Preview
Manchester United welcome great rivals Liverpool to Old Trafford on Sunday afternoon just over a year from the 4-1 result last season.
At that time Liverpool were real title challengers to United but in the end finished only four points behind the eventual champions. However, this time round Rafa Benitez’s side are way of the table–toppers’ pace, which could see them fail to finish fourth, thus missing out on the Champions League.
Sir Alex Ferguson, in his pre-match press conference was less than complimentary about the Reds’ and feels they are a team past their best:
“Did they over-perform? Yes. I think they did very well. When they got that run going they showed form and consistency,” said Ferguson
“I don’t know what they are mired in.
“I think that their challenge last year was championship form, but sometimes a team peaks with that particular team and sometimes it’s difficult to do again.”
Manchester United will enter the fray with a somewhat settled side. Edwin van der Sar will no doubt be in goal as per usual with a strong United defence in front of him. It has been 699 minutes of league football since we last conceded at home, when Gabriel Agbonlahor scored for Aston Villa in a 1-0 win on 12 December.
Starting at the back for the Red Devils will be first choice pairing of Rio Ferdinand and Nemanja Vidic; lets hope the Serbian can stay on the field for the full ninety minutes this time as he has been sent off in the last three matches between United and Liverpool. The left-back slot will be Patrice Evra’s as normal, though Ferguson will have a choice to make at right-back, the youthful exuberance of Rafael or the experience of club captain Gary Neville?
Wes Brown and John O’Shea are still sidelined. Though Jonny Evans has recovered from injury and will be on the bench for Sunday’s game.
A five-man midfield will probably be deployed as Ferguson looks to win the midfield battle. Antonio Valencia will resume right midfield duties, and Nani on the left with both expected to support lone striker Wayne Rooney. The midfield will probably line up with Michael Carrick, Darren Fletcher and Ji-Sung Park all in the middle. The Korean will probably be given the role of keeping Steven Gerrard quiet, similar to the job he did against Andrea Pirlo in the Champions League.
Ryan Giggs has recovered from his broken wrist and is available for selection, though he will probably start on the bench, alongside fellow veteran Paul Scholes. Owen Hargreaves made his long awaited comeback for the reserves on Thursday but he is well short of match fitness still, so he wont play a part.
Wayne Rooney will look to continue his fine form against Liverpool, his 25th league goal against Fulham saw him equal Ruud van Nistelrooy’s best ever league tally for United.
Liverpool make the trip to Old Trafford without Martin Skrtel, out with a metatarsal injury and Albert Riera, suspended by the club for comments made against Rafa Benitez. Alberto Aquilani is also doubtful following a stomach bug, which kept him out of the Europa League clash with Lille. Fabio Aurelio will also face a late fitness test to determine if he has recovered sufficiently from a thigh injury.
Liverpool are desperate for points to help them in their quest for fourth place, but Dirk Kuyt still wants to dent United’s title charge:
“No one here at Liverpool wants to see them winning another league title but the main thing for us is to win our own games,” Kuyt told the Reds’ official website.
The left side of Liverpool’s midfield could see one of either Ryan Babel, Yossi Benayoun or Maxi Rodriguez start the game, though Maxi played a blinder against Portsmouth last weekend, so he looks to be in pole position.
Fernando Torres has scored four goals in the last week and will line-up against old foe Vidic still short of match fitness, even Benitez thinks he will find it tough,
“Vidic is a good player with experience so it will be tough for Torres to beat him but hopefully he can do it,” the Reds manager commented.
In these clashes form goes out the window, but with Liverpool looking a shadow of the side that pushed United so close last year, we must be favorites. Liverpool are without an away league win in their last five games and have lost the last two of three, as well as failing to score in their last four away matches.
United on the other hand are somewhat impenetrable at Old Trafford, whilst scoring 26 goals in the last seven league matches at Old Trafford.
Prediction: 2-0 United
Probable Line Up: van der Sar, Evra, Ferdinand, Vidic, Neville; Valencia, Carrick, Fletcher, Park, Nani; Rooney
***
Betfair, Manchester United’s official betting partner, are offering you a totally free £5 bet to place on the United-Liverpool game.
Related items from Red Rants:- Man Utd v Everton: Preview
- Porto it is then…
- Portsmouth Preview
- Some Reading Material Ahead of Grand Slam Sunday
- Manchester United 2006/2007 Season Review
Tags: Game Preview
March 20th, 2010 at 18:43
2-1 In favour of us.
Scorers:Rooney,Park,Kuyt
March 20th, 2010 at 18:56
If Anderson plays, he will score
March 20th, 2010 at 20:35
@EduardoDaVinci4: Eddy, I have a question for you. I finally connected my XBOX 360 to XBOX Live for the soul purpose of downloading the patch for FIFA 10. I went to FIFA downloads and all I can see are add ons but no patch. I remember you saying there was a patch for all the glitches in the game. Where on Earth can I find it? I have not played the game since I bought it because every time I start a season the the whole thing erases all my progress and i can’t seem to successfully save anything.
March 20th, 2010 at 23:45
Great preview. All I want is three points by hook or by crook. I can’t bear seeing us lose to them again.
March 21st, 2010 at 0:54
@Grognard: alright grognard. on xbox live myself, glitches are sorted when you load the game through updates. you should of got one when you loaded the game for the first time. not being able to save your profile sounds weird, somnething more serious there m8
March 21st, 2010 at 1:10
@RicoTheRed: I’m able to save it but what happens is the next time you turn the game on everything you saved has disappeared or players go missing etc. It’s really truly fucked up. I have played this series of EA games for years and I almost threw up when I kept reading all the positive reviews for the game when it is completely unplayable due to it’s glitches in league creation and management. What’s the point of playing a season when two or three games down the road you open the game to find out the season has disappeared, your results are history or players you bought are no longer on your roster? I have read that others are suffering the same thing yet all the major game reviewers give it high marks and call it the sports title of the year. Well it would be if all these things weren’t failing with it. Just goes to show that these muppets only give reviews based on playing a few exhibition games because they are unaware of the games major flaws in league management play.
Anyway I did load the new updates so hopefully it will work. Somehow I have my doubts though. Thanks for the help.
March 21st, 2010 at 1:11
United beat Liverpool – 6-2!
Rooney hat-trick, Nani, Fletcher, Carragher-owngoalinho.
BELIEVE!
March 21st, 2010 at 1:38
Going to be close. 2-0 to United, Wazza and Park.
March 21st, 2010 at 3:18
5 fuckin Nil, I’ll accept no less
March 21st, 2010 at 4:22
@phoenix red: haha that, my friend, i can get behind on….
5 fuckin nil! no less!
March 21st, 2010 at 6:41
I’m skimming the scum from the top of my bathtub, but every time I try to get in, this filthy heap of froth keeps rising from the depths!
Oh, I know, were playing the germa-side tomorrow, Liverpuddles, the red team that is sore and itches.
) bend, and buckle, and in the end, snap to the superior skills of the Red Team that are not embarrassed or overheated.
Inflamed by it’s recent poor form and rubbed raw by it’s inept management, this red team will try to pour cold water on our burning embers.
But alas for them, the true colors will be worn by the home team.
Red, moderated by white, we will put the visitors in a unfamiliar hue and in unfriendly enviro’. They will, under the weight of their big manager (
I think I’ll skip my bathtub until after the game.
I want to go armpit to armpit and nose to nose in this close encounter. Knowing my stench is better than theirs, I’m putting odds on winning this one by a sniff!
Love me, or smell me,
Red(LUHG)rich.
March 21st, 2010 at 7:03
2-1 United!! Rooney, Giggs, Torres to score. I hope Rio and Vida dont let the past 3 games affect them. they need to be strong and use their upper body strength!!!
March 21st, 2010 at 9:13
You can watch this game using this live streams
March 21st, 2010 at 10:28
@Wink: I’ll join that!
5 fuckin nil! no less!
March 21st, 2010 at 10:32
I’m actually going for a 3-1 victory.with Rooney(2) and Berba scoring.
March 21st, 2010 at 11:20
@Traverse: Superb matey I hope so, I have a horrific hangover and have to meet my friends at the pub in an hour before the game, that will make it all worth while!!
March 21st, 2010 at 11:41
@Ashish: Berba will not play ,mate.You must have undertood Fergie till now
March 21st, 2010 at 11:43
I think this will be the line up:
VDS
RedNev Vida Rio Evra
Valencia Carrick Scholes Fletcher Nani
Rooney.
March 21st, 2010 at 13:16
I Just hope Vida and Rio dont let Torres rough them up today. I used to be confident against pool but the last few games make me nervous now. We need a 4-3-3 though definately which we havent played in the last few games.
March 21st, 2010 at 13:23
Gary Neville hat trick anyone?
March 21st, 2010 at 13:25
Well Torres is on form and Liverpool have always been more of a cup team, able to rise to the occasion and produce one-off performances. Their form also has been a lot better the second half of the season. So I do not think it will be an easy match. Liverpool know they won’t win anything this season so will want to claim a scalp to convince everyone they are not as bad as all that.
Then again we do have home advantage and we should have enough to win this. Im predicting a 2-1 victory as well. These sort of games always tend to be close.
After all there is nothing more sickening than seeing Arsenal top of the table at this late a stage of the season. So we have to win this game!
March 21st, 2010 at 13:29
@Traverse: I too
March 21st, 2010 at 13:41
Team News
VDS
Neville Ferdinand Vidic Evra
Fletcher Carrick Park
Valencia Rooney Nani
BERBA, GIGGS, SCHOLES, RAFAEL, EVANS, OBERTAN, PIG
March 21st, 2010 at 13:41
For them, same team as midweek, Maxi in for Babel.
March 21st, 2010 at 13:45
Interesting fact. Fletcher hasn’t played against Liverpool since 2006.
March 21st, 2010 at 13:46
Feel very nervous right now. Hope we will win !
March 21st, 2010 at 13:47
Thats the team Id have wanted….Plenty of energy and pace.
March 21st, 2010 at 13:50
@Traverse:
Hope Vidic doesn’t get sent off for 4 consecutive time. We need Vidic and Rio to be at their best to handle Torres & Stevie G!
March 21st, 2010 at 13:54
Berba MoM in last game and now on bench.Owen scored 4 away and remain on bench for 3 months.
March 21st, 2010 at 14:18
Come one boys lets put the dippers in their bloody place. Rooney to break his duck against Liverpool, Vidic to stay on the pitch till the end, a clean sheet. Bring it on!
March 21st, 2010 at 14:29
It is tactics. Liverpool are playing a 4-5-1, so we are matching them. It is how the big boys play. Liverpool are weakest on the flanks so Im hoping Valencia and Nani rough them up. As for Torres, well thank god we have Rio who can handle Torres and take the pressure of Vidic.
March 21st, 2010 at 15:24
Bored?
March 21st, 2010 at 15:25
Carrick sleepwalking! Park playing as SS! why? Berba and Giggs in…
March 21st, 2010 at 15:28
Park has been horrible
March 21st, 2010 at 15:36
@AndyCR7: havent seen carrick is he on the pitch?
March 21st, 2010 at 15:52
Not happening in the final third again!!! Bring Berba on, switch to 4-4-2, give the scouse defenders more to do plus he’ll hold up the ball better than Park, he’s not
effective in attack. Plus Berba would be better foil for Rooney. Come on Fergie, be brave, Attack
March 21st, 2010 at 15:53
@gator: the invisible man
March 21st, 2010 at 15:53
Park……………..Ji…………Sung………….
March 21st, 2010 at 15:54
Eat my Words!!!! Parkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk!!!!
March 21st, 2010 at 15:58
Park the best in the world.
March 21st, 2010 at 15:59
@owen:
March 21st, 2010 at 16:00
After fast start by both teams, game was really boring after 1-1. We were always in control, with the fools happy with a draw.
Park, with a point blank header from 6 yards out after a brilliant cross by flecther. 2-1
March 21st, 2010 at 16:00
The Crowd are brilliant today, come on lads! Lets have some more!
March 21st, 2010 at 16:05
20 min left. Park looked gassed. Time to bring Berba on. Wouldnt mind giggs either
March 21st, 2010 at 16:07
RedNev kill Kuyt
March 21st, 2010 at 16:18
giiiiigs, gigs will tear you apart again.
March 21st, 2010 at 16:29
Finally SAF gets tactics right
start the runners and then bring in the vets to kill the game off 
A workman like victory today. It is not like we were playing lights-out fantastic football, it is just that the fools were darn poor and we did just enough to garner the 3 pts, as has been the case this year.
March 21st, 2010 at 16:30
Did i say i’d take 2-1
March 21st, 2010 at 16:33
Park is 4 in 1.Winger,striker,defender and salesman.which other player in world has so much qualities right now???
March 21st, 2010 at 16:34
@phoenix red: I perdicted 2-1 and Rooney,Park to score.See comment 1
March 21st, 2010 at 16:36
He shoots,
He scores,
He eats labradors,
Ji Sung Park, Ji Sung Park…
March 21st, 2010 at 16:42
A win is a win. Still shocked by the defending on Torres’ goal…but I’ll take the three points and watch Blackburn with pleasure.
March 21st, 2010 at 16:50
Comments from 5 live – ” L’pool players focused on Rooney and others, but NOBODY saw Park at all.”
, I said it recently on this blog, and I will say it again now. If JS Park can find his balance, and the end products to go with his moves, he will be a great little player for us. It’s amazing that Park always finds the space, and he is a GHOST to other opposing team players in the box. It was just that he always fell down at the final execution of the ball. Maybe he is now doing what Rooney did, and practicing his end product. I loved his PUMPED UP beating of the heart and the United badge as he celebrated. Good on you Parky! Keep it up and you will become a legend 
.
March 21st, 2010 at 16:50
I’ll take that. Rooney broke his Liverpool duck, Vidic stayed on, 3 points takes us back ahead of Arsenal, and Chelsea have a difficult away game at Blackburn.
This was our hardest fixture out of what we had left. Chelsea Spurs and City will be difficult, but after what happened last season there was always the chance they could pull a performance out of their arses.
March 21st, 2010 at 16:57
It is really sad to see that rubbish ones like Lahm are considered as greats here and legends like Park get no appreciation.
Dont worry Park.You are the best in world.
March 21st, 2010 at 17:03
@owen: What are you on about Owen??? Park has always been a worker – granted, and an effective worker in some of the big games, BUT he has only just over the last couple of games got an end in the box to his space finding. He has always fallen on his arse just at crucial times, bar a few games. So like I said, when he gets his final ball and shots consistently right on the massive chances he makes for himself, then we will all give him said accolades mate! If he masters staying on his feet – with better balnce as he shoots, he will be a little belter eh?
March 21st, 2010 at 17:06
That was a workman effort but it was terrible football. Happy for the victory and relieved after we fell behind. A rough and tough game that was far too physical to ever become a classic in skill and opportunities. Liverpool are nothing more than a bunch of talentless cheats that cannot cope with us unless they are clutching, grabbing, kicking and pushing. They tried to physically manhandle us but they failed. Just look at the game winning goal again in slow motion and watch the mugging Carragher was giving Rooney in the box. If Park hadn’t scored I would have been crying bloody murder for a penalty.
Funny thing is that just before Park scored I was cursing his existence. Yes he worked hard and covered every ounce of pitch but every time we had the ball in the attacking third he would screw the whole thing up by losing the ball, making a bad pass or ending up on his duff. And Hell, even when he scored his goal he ended up on his ass. That boy really needs to get a better set of shoes because his feet just have a problem offering him balance. Still, he delivered when it counted and I applaud him for that. I won’t take away from the fact that he did work his ass off and he did do his job defensively. At least he is starting to find the back of the net on a more consistent basis and I think this reason alone is what has turned a lot of the public opinion for him.
My man of the match has got to be Darren Keane Fletcher. Box to box magnificent. Nobody won a ball over him and his cross to Park for the winner was just world class. Nothing our boy Darren can’t do these days. He has become the complete box to box midfielder and the second most valuable player on this club. A lot of my doom and gloom at the beginning of the year was because I didn’t know if we had a midfielder that could fill the box to box role of Roy Keane and be our general. Fletcher had shown signs in the past but I could hardly expect to see him take charge of the midfield like he has this season. Rooney’s goal tally has been major for us but secondly, Fletcher leadership and play in midfield is the reason we aren’t looking more like Liverpool.
Tactically the game was a mix of smart moves and sloppy tactics. Smart substitutions and the right squad selection and setup by Fergie but for too long in this game I thought we looked a lot like Bolton or Stoke sending long direct ball after long direct ball up field with little success. We were stifling Liverpool’s midfield well and totally nullifying Gerrard but offensively we were creating little and seemed satisfied by playing the direct game and patiently waiting for that one chance that would break the tie. It finally came and thank God Park scored because really, we created nothing much before it or after. I thought we were awful offensively but we were well organized and very industrious on the defensive end. Torres had two good chances all day and scored on one and that was all Liverpool got. For my money that was a dominant defensive effort. Rio and Vidic were tough as nails and their typical “Thou Shalt Not Pass” efficiency held us afloat.
Special mention for Rooney’s tireless effort today. All alone for most of the game he worked his ass off and he really helped a lot defensively too. Mugged all afternoon by the cheating Carragher, he endured, scored his goal but always proved a threat even if he wasn’t getting the service he usually receives. A true warrior today. I also thought Valencia worked very hard and made a real contribution to the cause.
My one disappointment today was the play of Michael Carrick. Or should I say the lack of play. Defensively he did his job quietly and efficiently but really, his attacking game sometimes goes missing for games on end. He needs to be as much a box to box presence as Fletcher yet he seems to be very comfortable staying back and playing like a fifth defender. That’s fine if he was just a Diarra or Makalele, but he has skill and is a wonderful passer who can score the odd goal. He needs to work on his pace, quickness and to better judge when he can move up and then do so more assertively.
Great result, a big win which keeps our title hopes firmly on course. As for Liverpool, too bad about the Champions League you Scouse bastards. Looks like next season you will be where you deserve. WAIT! What am I saying? Where they really deserve to be is somewhere in the middle of the pack in Division 3. And with that manager they have a chance of reaching that lofty goal provided the owners don’t finally do the intelligent thing and sack the fat waiter and do us all a favor because I’m sick to Hell of him and his ugly mug polluting EPL games with his presence. UNITED DO OR DIE!
March 21st, 2010 at 17:12
@Bryan’Robbo’Robson: Yeah, after 24 years, 779 victories, and 34 trophies, it’s really about time huh??
March 21st, 2010 at 17:14
@CraigMc: I’ll chalk that up to being exhuberantly happy after a big win because I think you are assuming far too much of this boy. Balance is not something one can work on and find. You either have it or you don’t and clearly Parky doesn’t. Hell he was headed for the turf even when he scored. Sure he had to dive for the ball but personally I think he was wiping out and conveniently his head met the ball.
He will be far from ever making it as a legend mate, but I do applaud his beating heart badge salute because that is the kind of player we want at United. Not the kind who score and then dream of summer nights at the Bernabeu singing Ole Ole. Park looks like one of those that lives for the club and for me that is admirable. He is showing signs of vast improvement but still, I would start him sparingly. Today however is one of those games that he would start if I were manager. And both he and Fletcher did a great job neutralizing Gerrard.
March 21st, 2010 at 17:17
@Grognard: Carrick was never box-to-box, and never will be!
He’s better playing either a holding position or out-and-out in attack. He just doesn’t have the energy to control things up and down!!
March 21st, 2010 at 17:17
@Traverse: Chelsea will be a tough match mate. They know that if they lose to us, they will lose the title. I also think the away game to Man City will be very tough.
March 21st, 2010 at 17:18
@owen: You’re an idiot.
March 21st, 2010 at 17:20
@CraigMc: And yet today he was constantly on his ass or getting the connection with teammates mixed up in the attacking third. I was cursing him right up to the time he scored the goal. Then I was bowing to him and anointing him as Prince Park.
I also must admit I was hoping for much more from Nani today. He wasn’t bad but he never really made his mark in the game. Well you can’t be great all the time I guess.
March 21st, 2010 at 17:21
unspectacular performance, desereved the win, Liverpool created very little, and at this time of the year and considering our title rivals would have been looking at this match as a banana skin it was an excellent three points claimed.
March 21st, 2010 at 17:24
@Grognard: The goal which Park scored today can be a major factor if we have to win the title.He is LEGEND.
March 21st, 2010 at 17:24
unspectacular performance, desereved the win, Liverpool created very little, and at this time of the year and considering our title rivals would have been looking at this match as a banana skin it was an excellent three points claimed
March 21st, 2010 at 17:25
@Redrich: Jeez! He must have been thinking we were living in Rafa Land or something. I’d say finally, we got that monkey of three losses in a row to the Scouse bastard off our backs, but to say he finally got the tactics right, well that just made me laugh and shake my head. I am often critical of the Boss but the fact remains, you do not become the greatest club manager of all time by just recently getting your tactics right. I guess he was just lucky up to now.
March 21st, 2010 at 17:25
@Fred the Red: Our bum is starting to squeak!!
March 21st, 2010 at 17:27
@Redrich: I’m starting to agree with you except I saw a different player with Spurs. I agree, his lack of pace and quickness is his biggest detriment. It doesn’t hurt him much defensively because he plays so far back, but offensively, he just cannot keep up with the faster and quicker players on our team and especially hard for him is avoiding fast defensive marking.
March 21st, 2010 at 17:33
@owen: Legends are not made from one goal with 7 games to play mate. Legends are made by time and consistent excellence. Owen scored a big goal vs Man City and the word legend was being thrown out there. Nonsenses. Keane, Cantona, Charlton, Stiles, Best, Robson, Law, Edwards, Bruce, Schmeichel, Beckham, Sparky, RVN, Ole, Ronaldo, Scholes, Giggs. Those are names you attribute the word LEGEND, not JS Fucking Park. Who’s next on your list Jesper Blomqvist or Massimo Taibi? I hate it when people use that term loosely. To be a legend you have to EARN IT. Careful how you jump on and off that bandwagon mate. You might break a leg.
March 21st, 2010 at 17:36
@Redrich:
Yes indeed it is squeaky bum time.
March 21st, 2010 at 17:39
@Grognard: Just accept it.Park is the best.He is Red.He is LEGEND.
March 21st, 2010 at 17:43
@Grognard: We should know by now, that being a standout at Spurs doesn’t mean that will translate to anything in our United side.
Carrick was better when he was used in a more advance role, being relieved somewhat of his covering duties. If he has the time on the ball, he is just great at making the long decisive pass.
March 21st, 2010 at 17:45
@Redrich: Your, Im glad that one is out of the way
March 21st, 2010 at 17:47
@Redrich: I meant to say your right
March 21st, 2010 at 18:01
Great win. Awful game.
I think Pool did a good job shutting us down on the wings but allowed our center players opportunities that we unfortunately wasted.
Worst player for us was Carrick or Nani, not because they really made mistakes but more because they wasted opportunities that were few and far between.
Best player for us was Fletcher or Rooney but neither truly played to their potential as Benitez’s defensive line-up made the game slow and physical.
March 21st, 2010 at 18:04
Gerrard was useless and only Torres looked good for liverpool despite his baby hizzy fits.
March 21st, 2010 at 18:06
@Fred the Red: Keep a hold on that thought.
March 21st, 2010 at 18:07
@Grognard: Agree with most of that, some good solid displays from Rooney, Evra and Fletcher, but Carricks form in big games is not good enough, constantly gave possession away and put us under pressure.
March 21st, 2010 at 18:21
I told you Rooney scoring against the pool was a forgone conclusion. Thank god we won, I don’t care if it was 1-0 or 99-0 I was just desperate for a united win.
March 21st, 2010 at 18:23
@Grognard:
. Ya’h so right Bro, Park on his arse, but Groggy I have to say it was no wonder today with some of the disgusting L’Poo hatchet tackling flying in on him, and often two of them when our lads had possession on the flanks. They were scared stiff of our renowned wing play 
.
March 21st, 2010 at 18:24
Must say also, Fletches yellow streak wasn’t in evidence at all
, must be just pre game nerves Fletch bigging up L’Poo.
March 21st, 2010 at 18:31
Diouf scores for Blackburn! 1-1, Fuck the Chelscum
March 21st, 2010 at 18:32
Diouf, yes!!
March 21st, 2010 at 18:33
@CraigMc: Today Valencia just outclassed Nani.
March 21st, 2010 at 18:34
@Grognard: Apart from your mild vilification of Park, more or less agree with your general assessment.
I too saw ROY MAURICE KEANE wriiten all obver Fletcher when he retaliated to the Maxi Rodriguez(?) challenge. Was lucky not to be booked, fletch I should add.
But I agree also about Carrick. The question is, if he doesn’t do much these days offensively and Park in generally good form, would we be able to play a 4-4-2 with Park and Fletch in the middle?
A Rooney – Berba partnership would give us more possession too. Apart from the goals, the possession, and the result the performance today was good but not that great. I thought we did not have that many chances in front of goal.
VDS
———- back four ——-
Valencia PArk Fletch Nani
————-Berba———-
——–Rooney————–
March 21st, 2010 at 18:42
Bottom line for me is we’ve 3 players doing 2 players jobs in center midfield, what we could do to teams with a 4-4-2 turning to a 4-2-4 in attack??? 4-5-1, Effective with current personel, but the big loser is Rooney, who would be even better with a more regular strike partner
March 21st, 2010 at 18:46
@owen: Nani was carrying an injury mate, and Fergie said that is why he had to take him off because he was suffering. Anyway feel free mate – who cares really?
March 21st, 2010 at 18:46
@NicoQB: No way.Carrick is must.He controls the midfield so well and one of our 2 players who retains possession.SAF wants him to play at the half pitch and dont move more forward and allow Fletcher to go more up.Because he knows that Fletcher has good energy level and can just run behind fast if we loose possession.
It is just a crime to prefer Park over Carrick.Carrick is a master.Believe me.There is a very hard shout for Capello to start Carrick over Lampard.He is so good.If You dont play Carrick,it means you are taking 3 players out of the game.He is the one who keeps wingers in play as he every time provides the ball to both flanks.
Carrick is very underrated but with him we have never lost PL.wwhat a great record and luck he has brought with himself.
March 21st, 2010 at 18:49
@NicoQB: It seems time is over for Berba.A source from Valencia has confirmed that Man Utd are leading the chase for Villa.so now make teams without having Berba in it mate.
March 21st, 2010 at 18:49
@phoenix red: Hey Phoenix mi man – are you GLOATING against all those L’POO fans down the pub – so so sweet mate, and the heart pumping goal salute by Park after scoring – I was doing the same mate
.
March 21st, 2010 at 18:50
@CraigMc: Hegot injured after 75 mins.He was simply the worst player from our side,no doubt.
March 21st, 2010 at 18:53
@owen: Whatever – but Fergie disagrees with you, and I would rather take Fergie’s viewpoint than yours. Like Grog said – what planet are you living on, because it certainly aint the Man United one.
March 21st, 2010 at 18:54
Yesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
Big SAM has kept his promise….
March 21st, 2010 at 18:56
Where’s mi man Eddi? No doubt down the local club ‘ GIVING IT SOME to all the Scouse Poo fans who gave him such a hard time last season. Go Eddi – clobber em mate
.
March 21st, 2010 at 19:04
@owen: A “source”. I just love the credibility “a source” brings to the rumour.
March 21st, 2010 at 19:05
@CraigMc: Oh its all very quiet over there! followed soon by Ta ra lol
March 21st, 2010 at 19:06
Top of the league
March 21st, 2010 at 19:07
@owen: I’m not saying this has to be the case, I’m suggesting a PArk-Fletch midfield in a 4-4-2 is worth a try.
Until we buy Gourcuff that is.
March 21st, 2010 at 19:09
@owen: I thought Carricks passing was awful today
March 21st, 2010 at 19:28
@owen: I’ll beat my own drum a bit, and use my (relative) elderness on this site to point out that I’ve been a Carrick supporter back in the days when Grognard was much more susceptible than he is nowadays.
And I can tell you that in those days, Carrick would be one of the first three names on the sheet, just like Fletch or Vidic is nowadays. Clearly his form has regressed. I still think he’s good, but more squad good than starting good. I just loved when he regularly assisted with his through balls and his decent scoring rate for a midfield. Nowadays, he does neither.
March 21st, 2010 at 19:32
@NicoQB: He just obeys the order os SAF and has become defensive more.Actually his defensive ability has become become very good.But yes,his consistency is not good now.In some games,his passing becomes too aweful.But still he brings calm and composure in the side.
March 21st, 2010 at 19:35
Arsenal’s run in is not that comfy. Games against Spurs and City could be very problematic for them. Also, away at Blackburn on the penultimate game of the season, could trip them up too.
The title is ours to lose, men!!
March 21st, 2010 at 19:37
rio interview after liverpool game
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-LpGhP038w&feature=sub” rel=”nofollow”>
park interview
March 21st, 2010 at 19:39
@phoenix red:
– I hear you mate – so so so sweet. 7 more games to go, somebody name them all please and whether they are home or away, because my mind is all over the place 
.
March 21st, 2010 at 19:42
@Redrich: Also, their tie with Barca could be pivotal. Winning it could make them sky-high. Losing it would crush their confidence!!
March 21st, 2010 at 19:43
Groggy – Man Utd against Bayern Munich in CL, oh dear your heart is going to be torn in two mate. So I guess you are going too have to REVEAL yourself and your true colours to the mast, wonder whose colours you will be sporting. So hard, because I know you love both teams!
March 21st, 2010 at 19:46
@CraigMc: Biggest game left for us will be at Citeh.
Can’t wait for that one, mate!!
March 21st, 2010 at 19:53
@CraigMc:This is it Bro,
27 Mar Barclays Premier League Bolton A 17:30
30 Mar UEFA Champions League Bayern Munich A 19:45
April 2010
03 Apr Barclays Premier League Chelsea H 12:45
07 Apr UEFA Champions League Bayern Munich H 19:45
11 Apr Barclays Premier League Blackburn A 13:30
17 Apr Barclays Premier League Man City A 12:45
25 Apr Barclays Premier League Tottenham H 14:00
May 2010
01 May Barclays Premier League Sunderland A TBC
09 May Barclays Premier League Stoke City H TBC
March 21st, 2010 at 19:53
@CraigMc:
ARSENAL
Mar 27: Birmingham (a)
Apr 3: Wolves (h)
Apr 10: Tottenham (a)
Apr 17: Wigan (a)
Apr 24: Man City (h)
May 1: Blackburn (a)
May 9: Fulham (h)
CHELSEA
Mar 27: Aston Villa (h)
Apr 3: Man Utd (a)
Apr 10: Bolton (h)
Apr 17: Tottenham (a)
Apr 24: Stoke (h)
May 1: Liverpool (a)
May 9: Wigan (h)
MANCHESTER UNITED
Mar 27: Bolton (a)
Apr 3: Chelsea (h)
Apr 10: Blackburn (a)
Apr 17: Man City (a)
Apr 24: Tottenham (h)
May 1: Sunderland (a)
May 9: Stoke (h)
March 21st, 2010 at 19:57
@NicoQB: Actually his scoring has been quite consistent through his years at United.
But being asked to play in a holding role doesn’t suit him well. He’s much better running in an open field – picking and choosing the right pass.
March 21st, 2010 at 20:14
Great result for us today. Liverpool did start well but we really did gift them their goal. However our defense did redeem themselves throughout the rest of the game although there was not that much of a threat from the opposition. All credit for park for popping up with that great diving header. Its not often that he manages to find the floor and an end product but he did it today and last week against Fulham so fair play to him. Fletcher was immense today especially in the 2nd half when he stole the show in the middle and produced a great assist. Got to give credit to rednev for his overlap run. Biggest let down in my opinion was Carrick today. He is way to inconsistent and gets caught on the ball way to often. His passing has been really poor recently and I really cant wait until hargreaves come back into the first team to partner fletcher in the mid as I believe Fletcher can do everything that Carrick can do with more intensity. I would have liked to have seen Nani have more of a go at Johnson as I believe he would have rinsed him every single time. The title is in our hands COME ON YOU REDS!!!!!
March 21st, 2010 at 20:26
Big Sam has been delivered a crate of the finest win in town courtesy SAF
March 21st, 2010 at 20:49
Ha. Suck on that Chelsea. Top of the league, all in our own hands. We have some tough games, but it’s in our own hands. Win all our games, win the league.
March 21st, 2010 at 20:57
Top?
Top of the League?
…………
Top of the League!!!
March 21st, 2010 at 21:01
We can again achieve the TREBLE….
March 21st, 2010 at 21:41
@owen: Calling ECL+PL+CC a treble, I think belittles our 1999 season. Carling Cup is a side dish at best. FA Cup >> Carling Cup…
March 21st, 2010 at 21:51
Great result for us. As I expected it was pretty close but this season just like in 2007/8 we are coming into our own in the big games and getting the results! Now we are four points clear and Chelsea still have to win their game in hand. What is best is that we have virtually all our squad fit and they look a lot fresher than last season so I really think we can keep us this run of form and deliver a historic fourth title in a row.
As for Park, he is your perfect squad player: versatile, does what he is asked, and sometimes even manages a goal.
Valencia impressed me a lot as well. I loved his running that led to the penalty. Mascherona just couldn’t muscle him off the ball. Some seriously strong running and his delivery wasn’t bad. Nani had an off day. He just wasn’t getting enough of the ball and starved of space and possession he couldn’t do any damage.
But the good thing about having two attacking wingers is that it doesn’t matter if one of them has an off day if the other performs.
Really although on paper it is easy to pinpoint problems with this team, we have a lot of experience, we are blending together a lot better this season and coming up trumps in the big games.
March 21st, 2010 at 21:54
Carrick was poor today but in the last few games, he was superb so I won’t call for his head. Park’s goal was well-taken but before that, all he did was fall on his butt and I have an inkling he would have been subbed much earlier if he hadn’t scored. But he has cemented his status as a big-match player and I love him for it
All in all, great result. Top of the league
March 21st, 2010 at 22:03
@colver: I like what you are saying. I too, forgive Nani for an off-day, as he was shadowed by Johnson and not given any room. Vally was great today and managed to make Insular look silly.
I am still not impressed with Arsenal and (if you saw their game yesterday) their luck will run out eventually. Chelsea are what they are: too old to compete. As the season wears them down, their midfield without Essien will become too tired and Chelsea will start to leak more 2nd half goals.
The title is ours to lose. As a scottish ranter once said: BELIEVE!
March 21st, 2010 at 22:34
Many thanks to the lads at Blackburn as well as to Big Sam for knowing how to do favors for his buddy Sir Alex. It’s in our hands now. Beat Chelsea and for me the title is won. Lose to Chelsea and once again it becomes iffy. Good thing is that today’s draw by Chelsea gave us a little room for error. Even if we lose another game, not all is lost. Now if only Arsenal would get the hint, know their damn role and capitulate, it would make things that much easier.
March 21st, 2010 at 22:38
@[OPTI]Madschester United: I don’t know mate, Fletcher was pretty frakken awesome out there. If I pick a world eleven right no, no way do I not include Fletch. He has gone from clown to crown in my books. Rooney was also quite good but yes he had it a lot tougher than usual. Liverpool is pants but one thing they are capable of doing is playing physical and forcing teams out of rhythm.
March 21st, 2010 at 22:40
@Fred the Red: I feel it’s fantasy and wishful thinking but a fully recovered Hargreaves over Carrick would be a truly wonderful thing to behold. Hargo offers everything that Carrick is missing, pace, desire and energy, not to mention a lethal free kick.
March 21st, 2010 at 22:48
@CraigMc: No kidding. I was amazed Howard The Duck Webb was allowing the hatchet job that Mascherano, Lucas and especially Carragher were getting away with. Glenn Johnson was positively raping the Lil Man today. I remember that great move Nani put on him and Johnson just stuck to arms out like a bouncer at a club and took him to ground like he was swatting a fly. And no yellow card either. Nani never had a great impact on the game but it was not due to him playing poorly. He was basically mugged and beaten to submission. But what he helped do was open things up more for Park and Fletcher to perform.
As you know I love Berba but if it means sitting Nani down in order to play 4-4-2, I hope I never see the Count again. We need Nani out there all the time because he makes life easier for Valencia on the opposite side because a team cannot just concentrate on one side. This gives us a far more dynamic attack even if the left side is not his best side. Honestly, Valencia needs to practice playing on the left so that they can interchange once in a while the way he used to with Ronny and the way Ronny and Giggsy used to all the time. Give Nani more time on the right in a game and then teams will really fear us.
March 21st, 2010 at 22:50
@CraigMc: Well even if it was gamesmanship one thing is for certain, he showed no fear or respect for them once he got out on the pitch. He was a monster today and really Roy Keaned it out there for us.
March 21st, 2010 at 22:51
@Redrich: Finally, a Diouf that can score for United.
YES. Die Chelscum DIE.
March 21st, 2010 at 22:53
@owen: And tomorrow Nani will out class Valencia. Nani had to face a tough Glenn Johnson. Valencia had to go against the very mediocre Insua. Say that again and I send Craig to your home with orders to inflict pain.
March 21st, 2010 at 23:00
@NicoQB: You and I are on the same wave length on this mate. My thinking exactly. Park has shown that as a central midfielder he can shadow and neutralize almost anyone and his quickness and energy does offer us a weapon on attack if only he could improve his mechanics and balance. I would seriously consider playing him as a CM and fletcher as DMF. Either that or hope that Hargreaves has recovered enough to force Fergie to sit Carrick down.
I like Carrick but since day one i have always maintained that he is a good player but not world class. And frankly, that is a position on this club that requires world class. You can understand then why at the beginning of the year I was so concerned about our central midfield because I never saw anyone being world class. Well thank God Fletcher proved me wrong there and he is the main difference why we are not looking at third or fourth. Many may think it’s Rooney but honestly, I expected Rooney to hit between 25 to 30 this season, He has already exceeded that so he has also been a major contributor but trust me, without Fletcher we would be struggling with Villa, Spurs and Liverpool for 4th. Fletcher for me is the runner up for PFA player of the year despite what Chelsea fans think of Drogba. And as much as i love Rooney, if I had a vote, I would vote for Fletcher.
March 21st, 2010 at 23:02
@CraigMc: I don’t think he went into the game with an injury. I think he was talking about the injury he got due to the mugging Johnson gave him. I think you should seek out the Lil Man and give him a hug from all of us.
March 21st, 2010 at 23:02
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psuRGfAaju4
Park…
Couldn’t describe him better.
March 21st, 2010 at 23:03
@phoenix red: har go
March 21st, 2010 at 23:05
@owen: You know mate you and I don’t always agree but I generally like you. But lately I get the funny feeling that you are doing nothing but trying to get under the skin of some of us. You may actually believe some of the things you say but something tells me you are just stirring up things for the fun of it.
March 21st, 2010 at 23:05
@owen: very good prediction! Kuyt with the asisst too!
March 21st, 2010 at 23:06
@owen: I can see Big Sam and Fergie right now at Fergie’s home having a good time over a bottle or two of Fergie favorite vintage.
March 21st, 2010 at 23:07
@NicoQB: When was I susceptible?
March 21st, 2010 at 23:10
@Redrich: Win or lose the Barca tie is going to take a lot out of them. And I have no doubt they will lose. They may entertain and play a similar style but please, they do not have the same quality or class that Barca have. If Wenger pulls that off he will go down as a miracle worker.
March 21st, 2010 at 23:12
@CraigMc: Mate it’s not a problem and it’s no contest. In the 70’s and 80’s Bayern were #1 in my heart but since 1993 no team comes close to United. I hope United win but all I ask is that they do not embarrass my German brothers. I love Bayern but I bleed United red. UNITED FOR LIFE!
March 21st, 2010 at 23:13
@Redrich: Totally agree. That’s a good team and it’s away.
March 21st, 2010 at 23:18
My predictions over which games I see the opponents dropping point in bold.
ARSENAL
Mar 27: Birmingham (a) DRAW
Apr 3: Wolves (h)
Apr 10: Tottenham (a) LOSS
Apr 17: Wigan (a)
Apr 24: Man City (h)
May 1: Blackburn (a) LOSS
May 9: Fulham (h)
CHELSEA
Mar 27: Aston Villa (h)
Apr 3: Man Utd (a) LOSS
Apr 10: Bolton (h)
Apr 17: Tottenham (a) DRAW
Apr 24: Stoke (h)
May 1: Liverpool (a) DRAW
May 9: Wigan (h)
MANCHESTER UNITED
Mar 27: Bolton (a) WIN
Apr 3: Chelsea (h) WIN
Apr 10: Blackburn (a) WIN
Apr 17: Man City (a) DRAW
Apr 24: Tottenham (h) WIN
May 1: Sunderland (a) WIN
May 9: Stoke (h) WIN
March 21st, 2010 at 23:27
I know this is totally out of place,but Lionel Messi is definitely the best footballer of the last 1000 years. I was so fired up about Rooney getting a good shout for WPOTY but this is not possible. Leo Messi is untouchable. The most complete footballer ever to walk the face of the earth. Say what u will but it would take immense blindness aka bias to claim the existence of a better footballer in this and preceding generations. Now it seems even seasoned and highly biased English pundits and journalists are admitting they have never seen a footballer of his standard ever.
Now the real point is how do we position ourselves to become a club that unearths such rare talent on a more consistent level. We’ve done it with Ronaldo,but in all honesty no one has come out of our Academy in the last say 15 years,that turned out to be a mega-superstar. We are just a buying club and really don’t have much time for young talent coming thru. The fans are just hungry for any major superstar to grace our lands. I love Barca,but it pains me when they keep coming up with Iniestas,Xavis,Messis and now the next generation with rising star Pedro(fresh from Reserves) and Busquets. We can’t seem to do anything even remotely resembling success with youngsters. Something needs to be done about,either our talent scouts or coaching staff or both. One or both is of a very low unacceptable standard. It’s time United got back to it’s roots and proud history of unearthing great talents
March 21st, 2010 at 23:27
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/mar/21/manchester-united-liverpool-rafael-benitez?
March 21st, 2010 at 23:38
@Jay wire: What a load of bollocks.
Do you believe everything you read? Have you never watched games pre 2007? Beckenbauer, Pele, Maradona, Cruyff, Puskas, Di Stefano, Best, Eusebio, are all greater in my estimation and I was fortunate enough to see half of them play. Messi is great but in my opinion and I do regard my opinion as highly as you regard yours, Ronaldo is a better player today. I will agree about the fact that Messi is truly a great talent and will go down as one of the best ever, but he is not the best ever. For all his skills, he can be marked out of big games vs big teams. He has done nothing for his national team and sorry but playing a 10/10 game vs Stuttgart is not grounds for anointing him king of the world. I like to remember that just 2 years ago he disappeared completely in two games vs United and did very little in the final last year before scoring on a surprise header. He’s all finesse and speed and nothing else. Great skills indeed but I like power, graft and grit in a player too. Ronaldo has it all. Perhaps if you weren’t such a big Barca fan your view might have been less extreme? Anyway, I disagree with you but I respect your opinion to speak your mind. That’s what debate is all about.
March 21st, 2010 at 23:59
Justin Bieber is gay
March 22nd, 2010 at 0:16
Torrez is a prat
anyone see what he did just before roonys pen?
Link
March 22nd, 2010 at 0:20
@gator: Karma. What he did there made him miss that last minute chance, it looked like the ball wobbled just where he kicked the grass.
Karma for the Cunt, hehehe!
March 22nd, 2010 at 0:30
@EduardoDaVinci4:
March 22nd, 2010 at 0:37
Messi the most complete player? Yes he is very skillful, creative and can dribble very well, but his physical attributes are poor-he is not that strong, he cannot challenge effectively in the air and he is not that fast. You can make a case for him being the most skillful player in the world-but football is about more than skills, it is a physical game. You look at a player like Maradona who was also incredibly skillful, but he was strong as a bull as well.
Ronaldo is way more complete. Is there anything Ronaldo cannot do? He can challenge anyone in the air, his heading is as good as any striker in the world, he is incredibly fast, incredibly strong, but in addition has great skills, great vision, great finishing, great crossing and great passing.
In any case in the times we’ve played Barcelona Messi didn’t cause us many problems. In the final it was Xavi and Iniesta who destroyed us. And in the semis Messi did very little. But even in the final when the whole team was shit, they were struggling to contain Ronaldo!
As for Park, his reinvention as a defensive attacking midfielder is pure Fergie genius. It is a great way for us to neutralise strong midfields and the great thing about Park is that he has so much energy and such great off the ball movement that he can keep dangerous midfielders quiet but also provide support to Rooney. Now if only he wasn’t so lightweight on the ball! Off the ball I think he is an amazing player.
March 22nd, 2010 at 0:55
@colver: Regarding Messi, I agree with both Colver and Groggy that Ronaldo is more complete and a better player than Messi; however, I understand Jay Wire’s argument based on the last couple weeks. Messi has been on fire with 2 or 3 hattricks in his last 4-5 games. For a good example, check out this video of their game against Zaragoza this weekend.
The video shows what is wrong with Barca – their defense sucks – and what all this hype about messi is all about. Frankly, I do not understand why Spanish teams allow Messi all that room. Ibrahimovich is not quite the player he was at the start of the season.
March 22nd, 2010 at 1:29
@gator: Torres is a very frustrated prat.
Don’t think he’s going to stick around at Anfield much longer.
Poor ownership and poor management makes for a very unhappy boy!!
Give the Glazers a couple more years and we’ll be going down the same path. Losing players, unable to sign new talent and falling attendances, will put us into our very own waste land.
March 22nd, 2010 at 3:45
@[OPTI]Madschester United: Messi is also scoring tons of goals. Last year he got 38, he already has 34 – he’s on great pace, like Rooney.
Goals are a huge factor in winning the Ballon D’Or or WPOTY, so it really will be a toss up between Rooney and Messi.
My prediction is that Rooney will inch it out if he goes over 40 and United reach the CL Final.
March 22nd, 2010 at 3:45
@Jay wire: Messi is tough, but Ronaldo is the more complete player. It’s been mentioned before but the physicality of Ronaldo is what makes him unstoppable.
March 22nd, 2010 at 4:04
i think this video sums up Darren Fletcher. Simply world class.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_KGT-h9LkM
March 22nd, 2010 at 4:23
@Redrich: You mean Rooney scores 40+ and United/Rooney do better than Barca/Messi in ECL/World Cup?
March 22nd, 2010 at 6:25
@[OPTI]Madschester United: No mate, the biggest factor is goals, but Rooney will make the case that there’s a new show is in town. Uefa and FIFA will reluctantly award such honors repeatedly only if there is no close competition.
United’s progress to the Final, will draw attention to Rooney – he needs to do the rest!!
March 22nd, 2010 at 6:25
Does anyone have pictures of Park’s blood dripping down his cheeks? Now that is the first step in becoming United Legend!
March 22nd, 2010 at 6:34
@Taker: I love that Video. Good music, overlayed with great commenting… fletcher is really put himself up there.
To become great, you must do great things. Fletcher is definitely becoming great.
March 22nd, 2010 at 6:43
I was just thinking… Was out 2007/08 team the best United team ever? Ronaldo, Rooney, Hargo, Vid/Ferdo, EVDS, Evra, etc…
I cannot find a weakness or room for improvement in that team?
March 22nd, 2010 at 7:32
@Redrich: WPOTY will be decided among these three:
1>Messi
2>Rooney
3>Fabregas
Arsenal are still in contention for all the majors + Fabregas will be one of the star in World Cup and Spain has a good chance also.
March 22nd, 2010 at 7:42
i wouldnt trade rooney nor ronaldo for a messi…
he would be toast in any league that offers tough tacklers…
ronaldo or rooney, better than messi
March 22nd, 2010 at 7:46
@owen: Fabregas will be behind Alonso, Iniesta, and Xavi in Spain’s squad. Fabregas will warm the bench methinks.
March 22nd, 2010 at 7:48
@[OPTI]Madschester United: here you go mate…
March 22nd, 2010 at 7:55
Liverpool are now nearer on points to Sunderland in 13th place than to Manchester United in first. They have lost as many League matches as Birmingham City (10) and as many away from home as Wolverhampton Wanderers (eight). They have lost more away games than any team in the top eight, and have been outscored away by Wigan Athletic and Bolton Wanderers.
March 22nd, 2010 at 8:00
@[OPTI]Madschester United: No way,mate.That is past.Fabregas will start each game and if if he will play just behind the striker,then he will he score few goals also…
March 22nd, 2010 at 8:27
http://www.studs-up.com/2010/03/sounds-vaguely-familiar/
March 22nd, 2010 at 8:35
Far from being a classic match. But I’ll take the 2-1 over liverfools anyday. And with Chelski drawing, its top of the table for united!
I am just drooling thinking about how our team will look like if we had Hargo:
-EVDS-
-Rafael-Rio-Vidic-Evra
-Valancia-Hargo-Fletch-Nani
-Berba-
-Rooney-
Just take Hargo out and put carrick in there and team will look half as effective..
Then we start thinking about 4-5-1 and all other formations(Just to reinforce midfeild). Now we all know the root cause of our problem. 
I worship Scholes.. But he’s past his best. And Park, for me, can’t start all the games. He’s a big game player (I’m not saying he picks his performance up for the big games, but he’s just very good keeping big players in the opposite team very quiet and we do not need it week in and week out). I’d never start him in a 4-4-2 formation..
Oh well, keeping my fingers crossed for Hargo.
March 22nd, 2010 at 8:40
@AndyCR7: HE BLEEDS MANCHESTER UNITED RED!!!!!!!
March 22nd, 2010 at 9:33
@owen: Just to qualify your post at 7:55, these are all FACTS!!!
March 22nd, 2010 at 9:51
@Jeet:
March 22nd, 2010 at 10:06
@Grognard: Grog I watched the game thru again, and to be honest I thought Nani did ok. He just missed getting a goal assist for Rooney by a hairs breadth, with a brilliant ball to the near post. He also gave good thru balls to Park a couple of times, but Park couldn’t control them. He did work hard tracking back too, but he is not good in the tackle I’ll give you that
. However anyone who thinks that Valencia contributed more offensively and balls into the box than Nani did, I challenge you to watch the game thru again. Yes Valencia did a lot of good work defensively, but apart from falling over in the penalty area (which incidentally I don’t think he needed to do Grog, because he was thru one on one with the GK) he only did one other good ball from wing into the box. So horses for courses mate according to a mans fancy, and each fan will back who he wants 
.
March 22nd, 2010 at 10:08
Oh and Valencia was playing as always in his natural position, Nani as usual wasn’t
.
March 22nd, 2010 at 10:18
@Grognard: According to 5 live – they agreed with you Grog. They were going on about how L’Pool couldn’t LIVE with United width and speed down the flanks. MOTD highlighted how Insua was incompetent at dealing with this from Valencia, Red Nev, Fletcher and Park down that side
. I must say, at the expense of getting a vollied barrage of attack back, that to say Evra is the best fullback in the world and then to see him WASTE every final ball thru total ineptitude in and around the opposition box, and to not give the ball to players in the box better suited to scoring, but to clumsily try to do what you can NEVER do – well I question the world’s best fullback thing. His passing into the box from the wings is poor too. Sorry Ev!
March 22nd, 2010 at 10:20
@Grognard: Hargo is a winner always – is Carrick???
March 22nd, 2010 at 10:59
@owen: Thanks for that
.
March 22nd, 2010 at 11:04
@phoenix red:
nice one mate. At least we have a bit of a breather before the City game, all other games coming thick and FAST! I see Tevez is in the media again spouting about us. Latest comments – He still thinks Red Nev is a MORON, and he sayd Manchester United are BIG HEADED, and think FAR too much of themselves – what a tosser Tevez is – just can’t stop complaining about us 
.
March 22nd, 2010 at 11:08
@Redrich: Mmmmmm m’thinks EVERY game is going to be a big game for us Rich – starting at Bolton, another local Derby, and haven’t our last 3 games on their turf have been an away loss to them, and two draws. So that will not be easy eh? Especially with Man United MAIMER Kevin Davies always wanting to do one on us.
March 22nd, 2010 at 11:10
@CraigMc: Thanks for bringing up the pt. around Evra – I simply love Paddy to bits, but you have forced me to acknowledge the gaps in his game. What you say is absolutely true – it was right there in front of my eyes and I never noticed it! Just goes to show the stuff perceptions are made of! Personally, I think Nani did Ok in the second half yesterday – he did look quite invisible in the first, but I think he did a very decent job in the second.
March 22nd, 2010 at 12:01
@Jeet:
just goes to show Jeet, I thought it was the other way around with Nani regarding the halves 
. Yeah Evra is not so good on the points I have mentioned, he is United thru and thru though, and greatly thought of for it. Plus he told Tevez that he would kick him rather than be beaten by him, and that if United fans boo’d Tev then Evra with join in the booing 
. He is a red indeed!
March 22nd, 2010 at 14:01
@CraigMc: I think Valencia deserves credit, he works hard and is very effective at what he does,he is no World beater but is consistant which is rare for a winger.
March 22nd, 2010 at 14:52
@CraigMc:
I think Evra is the best LB in the world at moving his team forward. I’m confident that there’s no one in the world better in transition with the ball. He’s a force of nature in that respect. However while he has undoubtedly gotten better defensively, he still does suffer from concentration lapses and the odd positional mistake. I also agree that his end product leaves a lot to be desired more often than not. But in the middle 2/4 of the pitch, he’s peerless! If you crossed him with Ashley Cole, you’d have yourself the perfect full back!
March 22nd, 2010 at 15:25
@Johnsom33:
For me, the whole ‘Ronaldo is more a complete player’ argument is a crock. You can have more strings to your bow and still not be as effective as a person who has mastered using a couple. Using that rationale you could make the case that Louis Saha is a better player than Maradona. Maradona was completely one footed, not exactly physically imposing (although he could handle himself), and he’s heading ability wasn’t the best. But on the deck, NO ONE could live with him. He didn’t need all those other things because no one had an answer for what he had. Same goes for Messi. Now Ronaldo was a force of nature at times and i loved watching it, but there was always the sense you could stop him. Ashley Cole used to keep him in his pocket on a regular by himself. Ronaldo’s game was about getting beyond the last line of defense; pace, power, a trick to get past FB etc. And he’s honed that almost to perfection. Messi’s qualities make him a rare talent. Probably the fastest player over the first 5 yards, that allied to his ridiculously close control, balance, skill and vision can make him unplayable. He can make seasoned defenders look like schoolboys. Yeah you can try and stifle him. But you’ll need at 2-3 players at all times to do it, leaving you dangerously short in other areas of the field and a HUGE slice of luck. I remember the home leg of the 07/08 tie. We were playing bodies on the line stuff and JUST managed to keep him at bay and with a little luck, the rest of the team. Hell, if it hadn’t been for a Scholes beauty out of nowhere early in the game, it could have been a much longer and much different night. Look at Chelsea, they tried to follow our game plan last year. Score early, sacrifice your own game by concentrating on marking messi out of the match. It, almost worked, but when you worry too much about Messi, you can forget about the Iniesta’s of the world. With Messi, it’s not about form or stats, numbers whatever! It’s that he lifts the soul when you watch him because you know you’re watching football as God intended it.
And i’m not even religious!
March 22nd, 2010 at 15:37
@[OPTI]Madschester United:
I agree, that was a mean team. Although Scholes was injured and then begun the winded down of his career during that season. Also remember thinking whilst Tevez was a good stop gap, he ultimately wasn’t the permanent striking solution. That team with 06/07 scholes and a partner for Rooney would get my vote everytime!
March 22nd, 2010 at 15:41
@Ozzierooy:
Also a RB, Calamity Brown did a decent job, but he didn’t exactly set the world alight!
March 22nd, 2010 at 16:19
@Ozzierooy: As far as I’m concerned the whole Ronaldo messi debate is over. We are all just going around in circles. I’ve seen both players plenty and I think Ronaldo is better. There is nothing anyone can say to make me feel otherwise, because it MY opinion. I suspect you feel the same way as messi, so it’s pointless to keep banging on about it.
At this point the only way I can see myself changing my stance is when messi comes to England and his form doesn’t drop.
March 22nd, 2010 at 16:30
@CraigMc: WHO? Carla! Just shows when you’ve been at the best, cant stop talking about the best. Feckin eejit should talk up his fellow mercenaries, but he’s too busy whinging like a baby about a past life. Who the fuck cares?
“Whose that Twat from Argentina?
Whose that money grabbin whore?
Carlos Teves is his name
and he hasn’t got a brain
and he wont be winning trophies
anymore!”
March 22nd, 2010 at 16:31
@Johnsom33: At this point the only way I can see myself changing my stance is when messi comes to England and his form doesn’t drop…….
true that…
other than that happening, nothing would change my mind either..
March 22nd, 2010 at 16:34
@Stephen: I GAVE him credit Stephen for his defensive work, however I stand by my point on not being impressed with the offensive side of things. When he 1st came he was scoring goals and you could count on his run up the wing, cross on the ground into the box – what happened to that Stephen?
March 22nd, 2010 at 16:35
@Stephen: I’m a fan of Valencia, as you say consistancy is a rare thing, the lads’ got guile, pace, can beat defenders and deliver a mean cross, what more do you need?
March 22nd, 2010 at 16:36
@phoenix red:
.
March 22nd, 2010 at 16:37
@phoenix red: If he can, I just wish he’d do it Phoenix, cos for several games he hasn’t done enough of it
. Also for a big fellow he is certainly down on his arse a lot!
March 22nd, 2010 at 16:41
@Ozzierooy: It’s the end product when he ventures forward, or lack of that I am talking about mate
.
March 22nd, 2010 at 16:58
@Ozzierooy: Messi is a faster version of Maradona and if he wins World Cup for his country,He will go as the best player in history,no doubt.At Club level,he has now only achieved more what Maradona in his entire career.
It is true that Messi is a better player with incredible set of skills but Ronaldo is a better athelete,no doubt.
One more thing,Messi has always played with the likes of Xavi,Iniesta ,Ronaldinho,Deco etc who had full control of the midfield,keeps 60% possession in the opposition half and will retire as some of the whole time greats.But Ronaldo has not got these privilages.
The thing which i most like Messi and separates him from Ronaldo is that he is humble.Yesterday he offered the penalty to Zlatan whereas When Alonso took it from Ronaldo,it seemed that the world has come to an end for him.So here Messi has an edge because now days the World is full of cheaters like Drogba,JT,Gerrard and is difficult to find likes of Giggs,Scholes,Shearer who are models and Messi is definitely trying to continue the tradition.
March 22nd, 2010 at 17:03
@CraigMc: 5 goals, 9 assists in the league. He’s the hishest scoring midfielder for United. As we both know, stats never tell the full story, I think he’ll go from strenght to strength myself, great attitude
March 22nd, 2010 at 17:06
@phoenix red: I hope so Phoenix mi man, I hope so
.
March 22nd, 2010 at 17:11
@[OPTI]Madschester United: I always thought that was the first step in getting stitches.
March 22nd, 2010 at 17:20
@owen: Fabregas? Are you joking? Flush that suggestion down the toilet. It’s a two man race right now between Rooney and Messi but it can become a three man race if Ronaldo has a great World Cup. He;d still be in the running if not for Madrid’s exit from the CL. He has a ton of goals and has missed a number of games due to suspension or injury. Say he plays at least 5 games in the World Cup and scores a goal a game or more, he would definitely have a shot. Messi has not had a lot of luck for his country of late either and I do not think Argentina is going anywhere with Maradona as manager. So his Barca season is his only hope. Rooney should do fairly well at the WC because England too should get to quarter finals at least. If he could get 3 or 4 goals in the WC, that would also help him. Problem with Messi at the WC is Argentina has no engine room. They are devoid of a creative midfield and their defense is poor. I could see them not qualifying for the round of 16 due to a lack of goal scoring. Messi will have to do it all by himself. If he manages too, then he wins the award hands down. But he has never elevated his game in internationals yet and it has always had to do with the fact those games get physical and he gets phased out of a game because of lack of midfield support. We’ll see. As for Fabregas, that’s frakken joke. Xavi, Drogba and about a dozen others have more of a chance than he does. That’s equivalent to pulling a name out of a hat in my opinion.
March 22nd, 2010 at 17:22
@Wink: Well said Winky.
March 22nd, 2010 at 17:33
@CraigMc: Did you read what I wrote Bro? I never criticized Nani. I said he had a quiet game and yes he had some close calls but overall he was quiet because of the hatchet job Glenn Johnson was doing on him. I disagree however with your claim that he had more impact than Valencia. Tony had it a lot easier with the useless Insua and thus was able to skin him more often and to provide a more tangible threat He didn’t do that much more than Nani but he also wasn’t being pushed, pulled grabbed and anally raped like Nani was.
I also said that had it not been for the presence and threat that Nani poses, Valencia would not have gotten the easier time. As long as a team has two valid threats on the wings like we do now and like teams such as Bayern and Barca, we are tough to stop and no team can concentrate more than one player on just one winger anymore. Nani’s emergence of late has made Valencia a better player and Valencia’s improved play has made Nani a better player. Finally in 90% of the games we will play Nani will always have it tougher because the law of averages show that amongst opponents, 90% of the teams possess a stronger RB than they do a LB. Strong and effective LB’s are rare compared to the dozens of great RB’s who can defend and attack. Therefore, Nani will always have a tougher time. All the more reason to appreciate his contribution without expect him to always turn in performances like his second half vs Milan.
Love the Lil Man and I’m glad he is finally emerging into the player you always knew he could be. I too knew he could be this good and even better but I had stopped believing he could be that for United. Great news now is that he will continue to do it for us unless Fergie does a dumb thing and sells him.
March 22nd, 2010 at 17:40
@CraigMc: That has always been the missing link with Skinned Sausage. Up to the opposition third he is the best LB in the world (now that Lahm is on the right). Problem is his finished product in the final third leaves a lot to be desired. Occasionally he delivers a gem but more often than not he suffers from a poor passing, poor crossing or a poor shot. He panics and that kills him. But at least this year he has a emerged as a better defensive player and his dribbling and speed as well as his overlaps are fantastic. But like Park, he lacks that extra bonus of balance and composure in order to deliver the finished goods. At least it appears Park may be improving in that area. I hope so, although I just feel he may be in a spot of good form that will not last. Yesterday Park worked hard and did all the little things that people love him for, but as far as attacking in the opposing third, he was awful up to the time he scored. The he automatically becomes a god to us all. The game is funny that way don’t you think?
March 22nd, 2010 at 17:42
@CraigMc: I think Carrick is a winner too. Difference is he wins SLOWLY.
March 22nd, 2010 at 17:46
@CraigMc:
No definitely with you there. Everytime i see him or Carrick shaping to shoot i sigh.
March 22nd, 2010 at 17:47
@CraigMc: He’s so bitter mate. I can’t blame him for some of the treatment he got but overall he needs to grow up and move on. He’s acting like a scorned wife. The reason he is so bitter is because he misses being a part of United because he so enjoyed his 07/08 season with us where we won everything major and where he was a starter. It’s hard to stomach winning a lottery and then having somebody take it away from you. Try as he might deep inside, he knows that Man City are bush league compared to us both on and off the field. So he shows his bitterness and anger because he feels denied something so great as to be a Man Utd player who starts every game. He wanted his cake and eat it too but the problem was that when it comes to cooking cakes, he wasn’t good enough. Not for us anyway.
March 22nd, 2010 at 17:52
@Ozzierooy: Well said. I’d go one further and say that he is the best when covering 2/3 of the pitch, not 2/4. But it amazes me sometimes how he passes poorly and crosses terribly when he gets into that attacking zone. This coupled with his defensive lapses in concentration made me want him to be sold last year and allowed Craig to dub him with the nickname Skinned Sausage. What I do love about him most though is his loyalty and love for the club and the fact that he is a strong and vocal leader. He’s actually excellent captain material which is why he has been given the armband to wear on occasion. Love Pat the Cat.
March 22nd, 2010 at 18:04
@Grognard: Can you tell me why Fabregas is not a contender???
15 goals,15 assists in only PL
Can win Pl
Can win CL
Can win World Cup
Drogba is a better contender than him because he cant win CL,PL AND WORLD CUP.
March 22nd, 2010 at 18:15
@CraigMc: Mate he is an old fashioned winger Craig, beat the fullback and whips in a cross, there are no frills with him but he does good job.
March 22nd, 2010 at 18:16
@Ozzierooy: I’m sorry mate but your argument made no sense at all. You never really made a strong case for Messi and you have ignored all the reasons give previously as to why Ronaldo is better. You just choose to conveniently ignore the obvious due to your bias. You love Messi more and all the power to you, but to grade him so much higher as to say the rest of us Ronaldo supporters are a crock is out of line. We have so much ammunition to make a solid case that you have not been able to create valid holes in. You remind me of the individual who is told the sky is blue but he insists it’s purple and nothing anyone says will make you change your mind because your personal bias takes over completely.
Messi is a a world class player and a true magician. But for all his positives, he has a number of negatives. All you seem to want to point out regarding Ronaldo personality flaws and to say he can be marked out of a game easily is absolute horse manure and you know it. I can’t count how many times Messi has been invisible in games and especially in big games. Ronaldo on the other hand has always been big in the big game and I can count so many games as valid proof. He has been clutch for his teams and his physical presence is greater than Messi by a country mile. Messi has that five yard burst of quickness but he is not overall as fast as Ronald, does not have anything resembling the power and strength, the aerial dominance and the ability to kick the ball with accuracy and force from long distances. He is nothing more than a finesse genius, and a great one at that but so lacking in other areas of the game.
Ronaldo is a complete player. If one asked an expert engineer to design the perfect player as he would a computer or engine, he would end up with something close to Ronaldo. A Chiseled physical specimen that is tall, strong, agile has strong legs, vision, imagination a sixth sense, two footed (Messi only has his left foot) skill, versatility to play anywhere on the field, a set piece god, can cross, pass, dribble, use tricks, has a great quick burst but also has great speed and has the endurance and stamina to play 90 minutes plus which Messi never had and never will.
Ronaldo is the total package while Messi is missing a lot. Ronny’s game is more power oriented while Messi’s is more finesse. The clincher however is that Ronaldo also has fantastic finesse skills whereas Messi doesn’t offer an ounce of power in his game. So you do the math and then see if you make any sense. Like I said before, Messi is a world class superstar and FIFA’s flavor of the month, who is truly great, but Cristiano Ronaldo is a GOD albeit a controversial God. You don’t have to like a player to acknowledge his greatness. Ronaldois not as loves as Messi but then again he never required gallons of human growth hormone to turn him from a boy midget into a short but quick man. Where Ronaldo is a genetic phenom, Messi was created in a lab. Ronaldo may no longer be the Player of the Year, but he is most definitely the player of this past decade and the coming one. He will also have a longer more lasting career because I see Messi frail body breaking down a lot sooner.
March 22nd, 2010 at 18:25
@owen: agree fab has been a monster this season. best midfielder in PL for sure. with some (actually lot of) luck he can win the big prizes
March 22nd, 2010 at 18:26
@Johnsom33: What gets me mate is that Messi fans remind me of American Republicans. They cannot see the obvious weaknesses in their argument and when presented with a detailed and valued argument, they choose to ignore the facts and just cling to their beliefs, whether those beliefs have any tangible or scientific truth to base them by. Regardless of who we all prefer more as a player, the fact is (and it is a fact), that Ronaldo is a better player and the more complete over all package. Read my previous reply #205 over why I feel this way. Now I honestly cannot see how anyone who likes Messi can argue with those facts. I wasn’t putting Messi down and I have elevated to his superstar world class status, but for me he’s still light years behind a healthy and fully functioning Ronaldo. To hell with the teams they play for or how deep their teams get in competitions. Football is an 11 man game and to judge one player as being better because his team is better or because his team has not been eliminated in the CL is a weak asses argument that I find many making. I could care less what UEFA and FIFA use to rate players or what France Football use as criteria for naming the European Player of the Year. The fact is Ronaldo is a god and Messi is not. Man against boy I say. Trying to convince Messi fans that he is not a complete player lacking in many areas is like trying to convince Republicans that health care is a right and not a privilege.
March 22nd, 2010 at 18:37
@owen: Messi is not only not a better athlete, but he is not a better player. Where is his aerial game,his power game, his right foot, his ability to play across the forward line, across the midfield and not just on the right side, where is his bravery for closed places and his ability to shake a pesky marker or show up big in big games. All he has on Ronaldo is a slightly faster 5 yard burst but he cannot match Ronny’s all round speed. In a hundred yard dash with or without the ball, he would get off the marker faster but would be left in the dust by the time Ronaldo crossed the finish line. Best player my ass. Not only is he not the best player but he is significantly behind. As far as athletes go, Ronaldo is a genetic freak and never required human growth hormone and special diet to get him to grow up as Messi did. Messi is a lab experiment which I feel one day will backfire on him with some kind of disease. Too many things have ben injected in that lad to get him to 4 foot 6 from his previous 2 foot 6.
Still,he is a joy to watch but lets see what happens if he goes up against a healthy and ready Park or Fletcher. He’ll be in their back pocket because he hates the physical game. He gets his way at Barca because Barca have another half dozen attacking weapons on the pitch at once. He sucks with Argentina as does Aguero because they have poor fullbacks and no attacking midfielders to provide service. Teams center their marking on him and it’s game over. I’m still of the belief he never played against us in the two leg semi final because I do not remember his name being called once. United cut off the supply to him and he disappeared. On the other hand, Ronaldo is capable of doing so much on his own which is why United were being referred to by many as a one man team.
March 22nd, 2010 at 18:38
@jos: Actually Fabregas was crap in the first third of the season and was being widely criticized by Arsenal fans.
March 22nd, 2010 at 18:42
@owen: Humility is no criteria in judging a football player. It’s ludicrous and ridiculous that you would judge one player over another based on shite like that. We are judging their skill set as players, not their value as human beings. And you frankly no nothing about either to comment. What Ronaldo shows on the field personality wise may be arrogant and lacking humility but Fergoe for one praises the lad and to this day calls him a good guy and a very nice person. So stick that in your bun and eat it. Can anyone debate on here with facts over fiction and with evidence as opposed to feelings?
March 22nd, 2010 at 18:45
@owen: He’s top player that disappears in every big game he has ever played. He is a classic choke artist of the highest order and he was non existent in the first third of the season. He;l he isn’t even a starter for Spain. Give me a fucking break. Stats hounds SUCK!
March 22nd, 2010 at 18:47
@owen: See the difference between you and me is that i can give credit where it’s deserved andnot where my personal feelings get in the way. The two players I hate the most in the game are Terry and Drogba but I still have the courage of my convictions to add him as he has scored a ton of goals and shown more range this year than in the past as a play maker and especially as a set piece expert. He is also the African Player of the Year while Fabregas will win Arsenal Player of the Year. Whooopy Fucking Ding.
March 22nd, 2010 at 19:17
@Grognard:Fabregas is a complete package.Scores,assists,good free kick taker,best midfielder in the world .Drogba as a stiker has scored 22 goals whereas Fabregas 15.Which other midfielder in the world has currently scored more.Go and check.
You don’t go by stats.No problem.But FIFA follows it to give the awards mate.
March 22nd, 2010 at 19:20
@Grognard: Fergie used to praise him for anything so that he does not go anywhere.That’s all.
How can you shout on some one if you have already won the match and the other wants to take to score his first for them who himself is a top penalty taker.
March 22nd, 2010 at 19:27
@Grognard:
Fabregas current season:
1>Matches played: 26
2>Goals scored: 15(7th po.)
3>Assists: 13(Ist)
4>Total passes:1730(2nd po.with only 26 matches)
5>Chances created: 80(2nd po.)
March 22nd, 2010 at 19:31
@Grognard: This is the first time i have heard that Fabregas was widely criticized by Arsenal fans.Where you heard this???Are you confusing ,i am talking about Fabregas and you are thinking Eboue.
March 22nd, 2010 at 19:34
@Grognard: Maradona also used to play with one leg whereas Saha is good with both ones.It implies Saha is better than Maradona.
Dont me me laugh.These are just useless points.
March 22nd, 2010 at 19:41
@Grognard: “You cut the supply,he will disappear”.complete rubbish.Other teams which are playing against him have no knowledge,then.They just give him the empty route to go and place the ball in net???
3 hatricks,5 braces is not a joke and you descibe these one by saying like ignorant ones:”cut the supply,he will disappear”
If this is a theory,then whole the strikers in world will disappear now.
March 22nd, 2010 at 19:56
@Grognard:
Ok first off i’d just like to withdraw the crock comment, i meant it in a lighter way and apologise it came across aggressively.
First of all, i never mentioned anything about Ronaldo’s personality. I don’t have a massive problem with it and besides, i think it’s irrelevant in this matter anyway, we’re talking about ability on the field not who you’d like to play cards with. And i don’t dislike Ronaldo, quite the opposite. In fact i have some serious man love for the guy and watching him play for us were some of the best years i’ve had as a United supporter. I agree with you, he is a GOD.
But I think the best player in the world can only ever be a matter of opinion,never fact, especially between Messi and Ronaldo. When players get this good, it tends to be whoever moves you more. Whoever you pick fair play to you, they are both amazing and fitting people to hold the title.
The reason i was responding to the post was that one of the main arguments i always see used to bash Messi is the fact that Ronaldo is more of a complete player than he is. Which i think is a little disingenuous. Nobody in their right mind can deny that Ronaldo is a more complete footballer than Messi. He most definitely is. However does more complete necessarily mean better? I don’t think it does and therefore think that it’s unfair criteria. Better to judge the players on their effectiveness, how they change the game, what they actually do rather than what they use to do it. I just believe that right now Messi is the more effective player. While Ronaldo may be physically more daunting than Messi (and a little greedier) they still output about the same number of goals for the last few seasons. It’s Messi’s playmaking abilities that set him apart for me. His velvet touch, vision, control in tight spaces and ability to thread the ball through the eye of a needle is superior to Ronaldo’s. THAT is what makes him more effective in my book, because he doesn’t need to score hurt you.
I wasn’t saying that Ronaldo was ‘easily’ marked out of the game, that again would be stupid. I was just trying to illustrate the point that to neutralise Messi seems to take more defensive reorganisation than to do the same with Ronaldo. At times it’s useless with either player, but again i just feel more so with Messi.
And i’ve also seen Ronaldo go missing in a number of big games too. Don’t forget he carried the stigma of a bully for a while. It wasn’t really until 07-08 that he stepped it up on the big game front. Remember, he hadn’t scored in the champions league before the Roma 7-1 game.
I do take the point about his international form and the fact that Ronaldo has now done it in two leagues and that argument has it’s merits. But hey,it’s world cup year and he’s only like 22, so he’s got some time yet!
March 22nd, 2010 at 20:15
@Grognard: Two years ago he disappeared against United? Oh. The 1st leg he had been almost 3 months out up to that point. But he was still voted MoM. Oh and Ronaldo was worse both legs. Tell me something,how many big games has Messi failed to make a big impact? I can give u a series of many big games he has made a huge impact. In fact the performance that got him into the limelight was at age 17 at Stamford Bridge. Last season’s Final is definitely not one of them. Unfortunately,u are in the minority that believes Messi is not the best overall. As for Argentina,a team I follow, you’ll realise that no one has performed well for Argentina over the last 10 or more years. When they say Brazil,you think Kaka etc,England you think Rooney and Gerrard and so on. As for Argentina there’s no one we think of. They have a successive line of incompetent coaches,Federation scandals and problems. They are one of the most disorganised football teams of our time. He is played in all sorts of positions where he is least effective,and the same goes for his teammates. Okay I might have exaggerated in the sense that he is still playing and is still so young,but on a skills level he definitely is equal or better than Maradona whom I’ve seen. He is just as creative but more clinical. Can dribble up to at least the same level. Considering that football has become more defensive in general,than the gung ho days of old then that should tell u something. As far as I’ve heard in general from those who have seen the world’s best over the years,Maradona has always been the pinnacle. I’ve seen Maradona play,his skills,creativity,knack for big goals etc and I’ve compared him with Messi and he is even at present just about the same. There isn’t much that Maradona could do that Messi couldn’t. For me Messi doesn’t even need to improve. If he plays consistently at the same level he is right now for about 8 or 10 years he’ll be the guaranteed best player to ever play football. But we all know there’s more to come with experience and the fact that he has a level head. It’s inevitable
March 22nd, 2010 at 20:17
Messi v Ronaldo and Fabragas v ????
March 22nd, 2010 at 20:27
@Jay wire: Messi for me is the best player in the World, I was at Stamford Bridge on a corparate jolly whrn they played Barca and he was incredible, what I like about him is that he just gets on with playing not throwing his arms in the air everytime he is tackled.
March 22nd, 2010 at 20:30
@owen: Fabregas is a superb player complete cock I will add, oh yes and he shits on Anderson….
March 22nd, 2010 at 20:32
@Jay wire: There is a new fashion to criticize greats by saying they dont perform in big games.This is just a myth.Scoring in CL final is not a big game.Wow.A new trend is there if you continuosly foul some one in big games,you are a big game player.Great.
This small lad is just great.And we should be proud that we are seeing both Ronaldo and Messi playing.They are both incredible.One has great skills,other one is a complete athelete.They both are complete package but if some one asks me a question telling you will win 5 million if the answere is correct and ask who is now the best in world,i will answer Messi but still i worship Ronaldo.
March 22nd, 2010 at 20:34
@Jay wire:
)
I remember that game. Made Del Horno look like a complete turkey. (I guess not that hard to do, but still
March 22nd, 2010 at 20:38
@Stephen: Whos is Anderson ,Djemba-2
March 22nd, 2010 at 20:43
@owen: Oh so now I am a liar. Sod off mate. You either take my word for it or piss off.
March 22nd, 2010 at 20:45
@owen: Fabregas is an excellent player who bottles it in big games and who is not top ten in the world. Top twenty yes. Enough said.
March 22nd, 2010 at 20:48
@owen: Fabregas scores most of his goals from the penalty spot. Never spout statistics to me again as I will start ignoring you big time. Stats are for losers and they do not show the full picture of what a player is. I have no problem with Fabregas. My point is he bottles it in big games and he is not top five or ten in the world. You disagree, that’s fine, learn to live with the disappointment and stop whining like a woman because I show your Arsenal scumbag no respect. Hell for me he isn’t even the best Arsenal player. I personally think Arshavin has more talent in his pinky. He just doesn’t defend as well or play box to box.
March 22nd, 2010 at 20:53
@owen: What a stupid idiotic comment when just last week Fergie was quoted as saying he still is in contact with Ronaldo and that he likes the lad because he is a good person. It seems to me that you are a master of selective ignorance. You choose to ignore the things you disagree with but you blow you pro Owen things we out of proportion. Basically you are WRONG. Live with it. If you want to debate me one word of advice, next time don’t bring a knife to a gun fight.
March 22nd, 2010 at 20:57
@owen: No Anderson cost £18.6m and Djemba Djemba only cost £3.5m so he was a better value.
March 22nd, 2010 at 20:57
@colver: As soon as you said he is not strong,your whole argument fell apart. You obviously don’t watch him play otherwise you would have realised how untrue such a statement is. Don’t even look further that the last game Barca played vs Zaragoza. Every time he was fouled it took deliberate and synchronised tackles by a minimum of 3 players. He has unreal balance too and falls far less than Ronaldo,who is admittedly stronger. I mean if it takes more than 2 people to actually foul you then you can’t be a weakling. He’s no Luca Toni or Nemanja Vidic but he can hold his own
March 22nd, 2010 at 21:00
@Grognard: Arshavin and Fabregas are two different players mate, can’t really compare both a very ggod players though.
March 22nd, 2010 at 21:03
@owen: Are you a fucking idiot? Seriously, I am starting to fucking wonder if you have a few screws loose upstairs. You choose to ignore the number of examples I gave as to Ronaldo’s superiority and you focus on his lack of a right leg shot and you make it sound like anyone who uses both legs is not special compared to his one good left one. We are not talking about Saha. And even if he can use both his legs Saha is not in the same class as a player. My point was that Ronaldo is not LIMITED to just one leg. This is kind of important in the game of FOOTBALL because it two legs are always better than one and open up more opportunities and option to attack with. Saying that all players with two good legs are better than Messi is basically admitting your mental retardation.
Ronaldo has at least 10 qualities in his game that Messi does not have and the use of two accurate and strong legs for passing and kicking is just one of them. So as far as I’m concerned the only “useless” twat in this discussion is you. Learn to comprehend when you read and before you reply for crying out loud. It no longer is suitable to just read my first sentence in a reply. And frankly I’m sick tired of your sycophantic charges against my arguments and against Ronaldo because you clearly know shit. And I personally don’t care how angry or rude this reply is because even I have a boiling point and tolerance level for utter stupidity. Go argue with 5 year olds. Perhaps there you’ll have a fighting chance. Christ all mighty I’m sick of your fucking baiting me with moronic statements.
March 22nd, 2010 at 21:04
@phoenix red: fletch /discussion
March 22nd, 2010 at 21:05
@Johnsom33: So Ronaldo is more unstoppable than Messi? Are you serious? Messi in almost every game is unstoppable. Ronaldo scores in almost every game,but is not constantly unstoppable. Messi scores almost every single game and is almost always unstoppable.
March 22nd, 2010 at 21:10
@owen: Rubbish is your middle name mate. You dare call my theories rubbish when yours wouldn’t pass with 6 year old school kids.
That’s it. I’m fucking tired of debating with you. You are an idiot of the first order and you are officially dead to me. I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with me who can bring up valid unbiased intelligent arguments. I will not sit here by my computer waste my time reading your drivel and then waste even more time defending my position and intellect with someone who knows dick about the game and who clearly lives to antagonize me and to bait me into arguments. You never have had any intention of accepting my valid points. For you it’s all about lets piss of Grognard some more. Fuck that shite. Go pick on some other gullible soul. I’m done with your bullshit. Not an ounce of intelligence or credibility in all your statements. That is why you hide behind useless stats because you are incapable of actually making a valid argument by offering valid points and evidence, just your gut feelings and anything you make up on the way. To Hell with that horse shit. Through your screwed up perspective I bet George W Bush was a greater President than Obama. After all he had 8 years and won to elections. Alway quote the stats. 
March 22nd, 2010 at 21:10
I think Messi is a superb player he also plays for his team Ronaldo does tend to play for himself, but both are great players Messi tends to get on with things with Ronaldo it is always about him, but they are both superb but I would rather Messi.
March 22nd, 2010 at 21:11
@Grognard: You contact Ronaldo.He will hire you because in present world you are the only one who thinks he is better than Messi.
It is really useless to argue with you.Really.When a person thinks Lahm is better than Evra,then he has every right to judge Ronaldo is currently better than Messi.So continue with your judging and start your own version of CASTROL RATING.It will bring revolution in the football world.
Arshavin better than Fab???Oh my God.Are you hearing Laporta.Make Bringing Arshavin AS THE election issue instead of FAB.
March 22nd, 2010 at 21:20
@[OPTI]Madschester United: They actually have the best defensive record in all of Europe. I get the feeling most of us don’t really watch anything beyond United and Epl much. In fact they have held this honour from last season and this season they have even improved on that. To those who watch football extensively they’ll tell u that right now Puyol and Pique are the best CB partnership in Europe
March 22nd, 2010 at 21:21
@gator: Darren Fletcher, World Class
March 22nd, 2010 at 21:37
@Ozzierooy: The crock statement didn’t bother me that much mate so no problem. You are actually making an intelligent argument fore and against unlike a certain other individual on here who has shit for brains. I have to disagree about the comparisons being disingenuous. It shows that Ronaldo has a complete package of tools, skills and general assets that make him a more complete player.
I don’t know if you follow sports in North America at all but in football, basketball and even in baseball there is a scouting session for college athletes who are about to be drafted into pro teams called “The Combine” What it basically is a session where athletes audition by showcasing their skills, intelligence and tools so that they give the respective pro teams a feel for who to draft and when, as well as who to pass on.
What is often discussed in these auditions is “TOOLS”. In baseball scouts love to find hitters who are “Five Tool” players. Run, field, hit for average, hit for power and throw. Football has an even more specific and longer list of criteria they look for in players. And frankly, the players who get drafted the highest are players who have more tools, not just a few great tools. A more complete player has greater overall potential, can alternate and often play multiple positions, has the physical package to endure and improve etc etc.
Ronaldo has that complete package and there is nothing disingenuous about lifting him over Messi because frankly Messie has weaknesses in his game and has “tools” that are missing. The tools he has are world class and magical and he does great things with them but,he has shown no power in his shot, no long range shooting ability, no real aerial threat, no stamina and strength to out last hard marking and play well late into games and no power in his physical approach to the game. He is a quick player who relies on deception and finesse. That is his entire game but it is a wonderful set of skills he has that come out in these areas. Ronaldo on the other hand offers so much more and his potential to create something out of nothing is greater because of his power, his ability to use both legs and his ability to go high in the air and go late into a game and endure physical torture from hard tackling better.
Messi has qualities that are superior to Ronaldo’s. A lot of theone’s you mentioned. But they are not vastly superior. Where Messi gets a 9/10 or 10/10 Ronaldo would get an 8/10 or 9/10. He;’s very close in most areas. The big difference though is that in the areas where Ronaldo is superior, he is superior by a country mile. AL those examples I gave and a few more. Above all, Ronaldo seems to show up more in a big game. No player shows up for every big game but Ronaldo does much more so than Messi. Messi can be marked out of a game with greater ease than can Ronaldo. And Ronaldo still has the X Factor. He can create more goals by himself than can Messi. Messi has the potential to dribble around everyone and score but he only does that against clubs like Getafe. Ronaldo can score on a 40 yard free kick vs Arsenal in a CL semi-final away game. He can score on 40 yard bomb to beat Porto and cvan cut in and score a game winner in a must win game late in a season when United look to be on the ropes of losing a title.
I respect and actually really like Lio Messi. I think he is special in so many ways but i also think he is soft. I think his frailties and his weaknesses are the real difference between him and Ronny and that lack of strength, endurance, ability to play with pain, coupled with the strength, power and overall physical superiority Ronaldo brings to his game is hard to match up with. Still, even with his limitations Messi is putting up outstanding numbers and is doing great things. But i also can’t help but feel that he is surrounded with many world class players and as much as he elevates his their game, they elevate his.
Ronaldo also plays with great players but on a team that does not gel as well as a unit and thus he is found having to do more on his own because his teammates are not as well coached and not as in sync with him as are Barca’s players with Lio. And as far as personality goes, I think Ronaldo’s arrogance, belief in his ability and drive to be the best is a positive thing because it pushes him to get better and to work hard. Lio is a winner but i do not think he has quite as passionate an eye of the tiger as Ronny has. But that is still to be determined. I will close by saying that both have to really lift their games to a new height if their countries are to do anything in the World Cup. I’d add Rooney to that as well. Whomever of those three has the best World Cup will probably win player of the year.
March 22nd, 2010 at 21:39
@owen: Yet again, a moronic statement. DEAD TO ME. From now on my replies will not exist or they will simply say DTM.
March 22nd, 2010 at 21:47
@Grognard: I dont care bcoz you are some one who has followed this game for 40 years and will bring it only to prove scoring against Porto was more important than scoring in final.
Have you ever watched Messi???I doubt bcoz i have seen him a lot scoring from out side the box.You have never seen???Wow..
So continue your 41st year of football love.
I wish you and your mother to have good health in future.
Bye.
March 22nd, 2010 at 21:49
I wonder how Fulham would fare against Barca.
March 22nd, 2010 at 21:53
@Jay wire: You’ve watched Maradona play and you think Messi is better?
OK mate if you insist but forgive me if Iaugh hysterically. Maradona is arguably the best player ever (Although I still feel it’s Pele) And your opinion of ,essi’s performance against us two years ago is a bit of a joke right? Seriously, other than a few good touches he did nothing. In fact Barca failed to score. Yes Ronaldo too was ineffective in that series but I can count so many other big games where Ronaldo showed up. Up until this year Ronadlo was very strong for his country as well whereas Messi has always struggled to find his form internationally. Ronaldo was strong in the 2004 EUROS as a 17 year old and was the only good player that carried Portugal far in the 2006 World Cup. He was the star of the 2005 FA Cup Final, has played many big and great games against Arsenal, scored a hammer vs Porto, scored a great header vs Chelsea in the CL final (not that easy gimme header Messi had in last years), and has delivered great goal and free kick after great goal and free kick in many epic battles in the EPL in must win games.
Messi in comparison scores his hat tricks against useless opponents, rarely scores in epic derby’s. Still I thinkhe is a great player and his goal two years ago that looked like Maradona’s 86 classic is the best goal I have seen since Maradona’s. I am not taking anything away from him other than to say that he is not in Ronaldo’s class. Read previous posts for my reasons why. Each one valid and none of the posts put down Messi in any way or form other than to say he has physical limitations that limit the number of skills he can offer to a game. What he does offer is lights out fantastic, but then so does Ronaldo. And Ronaldo can do it from all parts of the pitch with either leg and upstairs as well with great aerial ability and also late into games because his stamina and strength is far superior. Kudos to you if you can argue over that. Frankly I respect your opinion but as you disagree with mine on this, so must I disagree with you. But that’s OK. At least you bring up intelligent points to a debate as opposed to biased crap that some others do. Cheers,
March 22nd, 2010 at 21:54
@Stephen: I’ll give him that. I too like the fact that unlike Ronaldo, he is not a drama queen. But that does not make him a better player and watching one game of his live also does not make him a better player. Sorry.
March 22nd, 2010 at 22:01
@Jay wire: He is nowhere near as strong mate and his storied injury ridden history proves that. The fact he survived a mauling in one game proves nothing. He has always been frail and Barca officials were worried for many years having invested a lot of money due to his lack of growth. So much so that they had him injected with human growth hormone and other shit to get him to physically mature and bulk up a bit. He is a walking talking mini Frankenstein. To say he is strong is an absurd statement because the evidence of games missed up until last year was alarming. He also took long to heal from injuries. He is soft but yes he has outstanding balance. But balance is not defined by how little he dives when fouled. Ronaldo has outstanding balance and as he is tall has a very strong base, but he mentally chooses to embellish things with his theatrics which I too am not a fan of. That is not to say he hasn’t got balance. Messi just chooses to fight through a tackle more rather than offer more give and fall. This might also be why he has been injured more. By not offering more give and making your body go slack when contacted, you have a higher percentage chance of getting injured.
March 22nd, 2010 at 22:01
@owen: I clearly remember Lahm having a fantastic world cup in Korea I think.
I love Evra, but 8 times out of 10 his end product when he gets in great positions is disappointing.
But Irwim is still untoucheable.
On a side note, Lee Sharpe had amazing end product, but anyone knows how good his defending was?
March 22nd, 2010 at 22:02
@Ozzierooy: You seem to watch Messi play a little more regularly than most here based on your assessments and comments. You correctly defeated the common myth among EPL lovers,that Messi is a weakling,when you pointed out the fact that it takes a minimum of 3 players to take him down. I don’t know if you watched the Zaragoza game last night. They couldn’t stop him with tackles. The penalty they conceded,it was Messi dribbling through about 3 players and each player tried to knock him down but he kept moving. he would stumble but still keep going. Kinda reminded me of Rooney. Even on his second goal,a similar thing happened when he wrestled the ball off one of the defenders. The commentators were astonished at how he could keep going given his size. There’s also a myth that he can’t head the ball and he can’t score freekicks. I have to be honest,I have never seen such ridiculous ability in a sportsman before. The skill,unreal balance,dribbling,speed,close control,finesse,unmatched finishing,clinical passing,artistic creativity. The list goes on. The rest of the world appreciates that we are witnessing a phenomenon who is probably the very best football has ever seen. It’s so refreshing to see the humility in this kid. It’s like he doesn’t even know that he could very well be the pinnacle of football
March 22nd, 2010 at 22:06
@Jay wire: Yet Ronaldo’s averaging a goal a game and playing with a squad of selfish twats whereas Messi is blessed with the likes of Iniesta and Xavi for service and can collect the scraps from Henry and Ibrahimovich as well. I think Messi benefits greatly by having such a great team to play with, not a team of individuals like Madrid. And so many of Messi’s goals are really easy poke ins and finesse shots because the defense has been broken down by others. Ronaldo’s goals are long free kicks, long shots and screaming headers. But you go on believing the myth mate. That’s your prerogative.
March 22nd, 2010 at 22:07
@owen: DTM
March 22nd, 2010 at 22:10
@NicoQB: Anyone who thinks Lahm is not wWorld Class only makes himself out to be an idiot mate. You are right, he was great in Korea as he was in Germany to in 2006. A great player and a great talent.
March 22nd, 2010 at 22:12
@Jay wire: He is short and has a low base of gravity. It’s like short running backs with big thighs in American Football. They may not be strong or super human in strength but they are hard to bring down because of that low base of gravity. That and the fact that Messi is very elusive and many tackles just miss. Still is a pint sized weakling in my opinion. Get a good tackle in and he’s gone for a month. And further more, it is way too early in his career to be anointing him as the best ever. I hate that about present day fickle fans who cannot look back past a year when it comes to rating anything from music to movies or footballers. Let him play ten seasons and then we shall see. It does a great disservice to those who are the best to insult them like that.
March 22nd, 2010 at 22:17
@Grognard: I never said one game. Check with all columnists who specialise in La Liga and all of them I guarantee will mention his strength. If injuries are a determination of body strength then by all means, Owen Hargreaves is the weakest footballer on the face of the Earth. Injuries have nothing to do with it. I never said Ronaldo has no balance. He does. You say you watch Messi play. Okay when last did you watch him play? The theme for Messi this season and what everyone is discussing is his strength and balance. He has been displaying these traits even more regularly this season. So it’s actually surprising that you support the now ridiculed myth that he is not strong enough
March 22nd, 2010 at 22:38
@Grognard: I’m sorry to say, but I don’t think you watch lot of La Liga matches. If you watch the last 3 Barcelona games, I think you can see yourself that most of Messi’s goals is very ‘typical’. He gets the ball. Then dribble pass 2 to 3 defenders and put it pass the goalkeeper. Therefore, to say that Messi only good because Barca is blessed with the likes of Iniesta and Xavi for service is not relevant here as most of his goal is created by himself:)
March 22nd, 2010 at 22:53
@Grognard: By this you have proved you don’t watch Messi regularly. Easy poke ins. What? Most of his goals particularly this year have been long range shots or dribbling through at least 3 defenders. In fact his last 6 goals have been just that. Ronaldo plays with which selfish players. Are you kidding me? At Real Madrid he is actually the only selfish player. This season particularly over the last 4 or so months RM have been playing some brilliant football. Xabi Alonso in particular has been pulling the strings in midfield with some brilliant passing and assists. Kaka has also been playing well when available. Which player in the RM squad apart from Ronaldo is selfish? Name just one. Everything you have said is the exact opposite,particularly concerning this season. It is a myth that RM play like a bunch of individualistic players,esp this season. They struggled early on to play fluidly due to new formation,new coach,new players. There was no real understanding particularly between Kaka and Benzema. Now with Alonso and Lassana Diarra developing an understanding,their midfield is solid. Ronaldo and Higuain are playing like they have been playing together for years with flicks and lobs their staple. You are trying to present Messi as some poacher who feeds off the brilliant work of his teammates. Then surely Barca’s players should be the very best not footballers but athletes and sportsmen in history. I mean if they can top dribbling through whole defences and scoring from all angles really.
March 22nd, 2010 at 22:56
@SAj: Thank you.
March 22nd, 2010 at 23:03
Okay for this debate to end we need neutral fans here,who don’t watch much of La Liga,but have access to it. These fans must not be Ronaldo or Messi cheerleaders. Just watch the next 3 Barca and RM games and come up with your own conclusions. It might seem juvenile but that’s the only way
March 22nd, 2010 at 23:09
@Grognard:
I can see what you’re saying, though i think you do a great disservice to shooting ability to say he has no power. He scores his fair share of screamers, like the one last week against Stuttgart. I have indeed watched baseball, used to follow it quite closely and am familiar with the idea of the 5 tool player but i don’t think you can translate that idea accurately to football, where the game isn’t as rigid and there are less extensive statistical markers to gauge competence in certain areas. (HR, RBI, SB, fielding percentage etc.) In football the most effective player wins the day, complete or not and whilst being complete definitely helps, it isn’t the be all and end all. And i believe Messi to be the most effective, because of his combined attacking and a creative abilities.
But like i said before, when we’re watching greats play, it can only ever be subjective, so we’re just going to have to agree to disagree.
March 22nd, 2010 at 23:19
forget messi, just watched wee tosic for fc koln…..he looks class. great winger in the making!!
March 22nd, 2010 at 23:21
@Jay wire:
I did catch some highlights and he looked unplayable. Second goalwas everything you want, strength, desire, pace, control, balance and a clinical finish. That and the run for the 4th were quality. Special player.
March 23rd, 2010 at 0:14
I feel a little irritated with myself for starting this whole Messi debate. I mentioned that Messi is the best player ever just after watching him demolish Zaragoza last night. But the real point I wanted to bring to the table was the consistency of Barcelona to unearth world class quality from their world famous Academy whereas we as United have regressed exponentially in that dept. We used to take pride in bringing great young talent to the world. All this has long ceased. It’s like in the modern era of football we have only come up with the class of ‘92. Becks,Giggs,Nevilles and Scholes. I don’t really place too much of the blame on the scouts who in my opinion still have it when it comes to the knack for finding real rough diamonds. The real issue for me is the coaching staff.
Of all the big teams in Europe I believe we have some of the worst coaches. Especially on the development side. We are not renowned for technical excellence and this for me is a disgrace. Especially in this age of modern football. You can see the young players have real talent and ability but they lack technically. The strikers are wayward and exhibit very little technique in scoring or getting into positions to score. The midfielders can’t pass to save their lives. In fact throughout the whole squad,the passing is very poor.Rooney ever since he came has not really seen an improvement in his passing. It’s too erratic for a player of his standard. Had they picked this up early on and worked on his passing by now he would be most certainly in the very best category. Young players especially,for them to move to the next level need technical ability. They already have the necessary natural talent that needs to be fine tuned and enhanced with proper coaching
Pep Guardiola told Messi last year that he already is the best in the world with the ball at his feet but he needs to become the best without the ball. His off the ball movement has been so impressive this season. Wenger had Fabregas to improve his distribution.The point is all the young players elsewhere are improved in the lacking areas of their game.At United there is no real evidence of this. If Nani takes too much time before he passes,it is detrimental to the team and to his own development. Train him how to pass quickly and at the right moment. If he keeps doing it it’s evident that no one has corrected him. If Rafael keeps sliding on every challenge,it’s because he is young and enthusiastic. He needs to be taught disciplined marking. Playing more games is not enough,the youngsters need to be taught on how to improve on their weaknesses.
March 23rd, 2010 at 0:34
@Jay wire: From what I can recall… I think the rules changed in England in mid-to-late nineties about academies and young players. Something to the effect that we can no longer get youngsters who live outside of X miles of the training ground. I do not know if this rule is in effect in Spain.
March 23rd, 2010 at 0:38
This is a major reason why all top English clubs buy their talent from other club’s academies. Even Messi is not a pure academy product… he played until age 12 in Argentina clubs, but after Barca offered to pay for his hormone treatments they got him to come to Spain
March 23rd, 2010 at 1:35
A more pressing issue is Rooney’s knee injury. If Rooney gets crocked we could end up not winning anything. Berbatov is ok as a support striker but there is no way he could lead the line the way Rooney has done all season.
Rooney is not built to play 50-60 games a season, even if he may want to. He may well be able to stay together till the end of the season but Im convinced he will be busted up by the end of the world cup and will miss the start of next season. So a nice number 9 type striker is a priority this summer.
March 23rd, 2010 at 1:36
@Jay wire: For some reason, there’s been a waning emphasis on Academies in England over the last 10 years or so.
I think I remember reading something about the cost being prohibitive for a lot of clubs, and as they began to pare back in this area, so did the big 4.
United has always prided itself in bringing players through the ranks, but you’re right, it’s been many a season since we’ve seen any real talent emerge from the reserves.
I’m really not sure where to point the finger, but I do know that it takes a very special player to break into our starting eleven. Some of the very best have come to United and failed to make the necessary impact.
It’s not so much the style or system that we play, or that our training personnel is wanting, but more that SAF has insisted on a certain attitude from his players – and ultimately a team chemistry, that bonds them together through thick and thin.
So with the bar being set so high, for so many facets of a players makeup, it’s really no wonder that few ever make the grade.
That said, I too, find the sloppy passing very infuriating. For a team of our stature you would think the coaches would stamp that out, and with some haste. Rooney has been dreadful on occasion, but this is due to his eagerness to impress by making the wonderful flick or through ball. Deciding to go with the very low percentage ball, when a more accurate, simple pass would have done.
English Football has never had the same technical emphasis as, say Spain, Italy, Brazil, Argentina. I believe they are beginning to come around to the idea now, and I think we will see some progress here in the years to come!!
March 23rd, 2010 at 1:54
@colver: Rooney’s fitness will always be a concern until we have another dynamic threat up front. It’s a worry for United and for England, and speaks to the general lack of striking power playing in the PL right now.
Being the most expensive product of all, striking power has become another victim of the global recession.
March 23rd, 2010 at 2:26
funny, a good read about some of our unsung heroes and widely sung!
March 23rd, 2010 at 2:35
@Redrich: I find striking power of the EPL extremely high. Almost every team have at least one striker that is considered pretty good. Look at Sunderland, Bolton, Fulham, West Ham, Portsmouth… all have strikers that a national team players from their respective countries and would fetch around 5-10 million minimum… at least that is my thinking. I was thinking La Liga, outside of Barca, RM, and David Villa, Aguero, and Forlan is weak in striking power…
March 23rd, 2010 at 2:36
@phoenix red: I do find the dog chants a bit racist…
March 23rd, 2010 at 2:54
@[OPTI]Madschester United: Outside of Rooney and Defoe and perhaps Crouch and Heskey, England has a distinct lack of fire power.
Torres is WC, so is Rooney and Drogba (when he feels like it) other than that we are scraping the barrel to name good strikers.
Van Persie has generally been good for Arsenal, but he’s not an automatic, and Arsenal have suffered from a lack of scoring power every since Bergkamp and Henry left.
March 23rd, 2010 at 2:55
@[OPTI]Madschester United: I dont think that they’re meant to be rascist but i could see how some people might see them as such. Given the broad diverse fanbase thats both inside and outside Old Trafford, i think United are one of the most inclusive clubs in the world. There are songs, that i as an irishman could find mildly offensive but i’ve thicker skin than that. Football chants are not the usual media for anything politically correct, that does not excuse ANY RASCIST chants by the way. I just dont think that this is a case in point.
March 23rd, 2010 at 3:04
@[OPTI]Madschester United: I might add Madschester, that alot of it has more to do with oblique Mancunian humour than anything rascist
March 23rd, 2010 at 6:29
i have been hearing rumours about david villa joining man utd this summer with our scouts attending EVERY valencia matches. what you guys think about it?can he fit in our system?
March 23rd, 2010 at 6:36
@Jay wire: I have watched Messi play at least 75 times for Barcelona and over a dozen times for Argentina. I’m saddened that you think I am too stupid to be taken seriously after all I have contributed on this blog. This isn’t even a discussion any more. It’s getting to the point of argument. Everyone’s fighting like two parties in Congress not willing to give an inch to the other and stubborn enough to declares themselves victor.
As far as I’m concerned I am giving up the crusade. I am not conceding defeat, far from it. I just feel there is no point continuing this debate and offering my take on things since it is so clearly disregarded despite the fact that I know the game and the specified players better than most. Although I am not accusing you of this Jaywire, I am tired of having my age and my knowledge of the game poked fun at every time I challenge a muppet who knows nothing. Perhaps I am being harsh and rude but some of the argument s on this topic have been nothing but rubbish and i do not include my contribution as part of that.
Some have made strong arguments like yourself up until you had to insult me by claiming that I haven’t watched Messi very much. Well, again I just say I have probably watched more football in my 40 years of watching the game than anyone on this blog and that’s because I never just followed one team. I was fortunate to get plenty of football and from many different places and so studying the game and the styles as well as the different countries as well as reading book after book leaves me in the position of proclaiming myself an expert. That offends many on here and it threatens them. It;’s not meant to be arrogant or aimed at anyone out of conceit. It’s just fact. Fact that seems to be ignored every time somebody decides to challenge me on a topic or player I know a lot about. You don’t here me talking a lot about South America, Asisa, Africa, France or other regions that I don’t follow in football. But I do consider myself an expert on the English German and Italian game and leagues as well as pretty comfortable about the Spanish.
No I am not humble about this much but very much like a scientist is not humble about his knowledge of physics. Why should I be? I put the time in and the passion. But above all, I do not just watch a game like a fan, I watch it like a student and I watch it like a teacher which is what I once was. So if I preach on occasion, forgive me it’s the teacher coming out and very few teachers like to be corrected when they are sure they are correct. Apologies to all for my overbearing personality in this debate. But no apologies over the fact I am right, Ronaldo is superior to Messi. If you can’t handle it, well sorry but sometimes the truth hurts. Cheers.
March 23rd, 2010 at 6:45
@Jay wire: I admit that of late he is hitting a few more long range shots but even so, most of his goals are of the finesse variety, which in itself is no mean feat because it takes accuracy and misdirection to perfect such stuff. He is quite the player no doubt about it, but he is not Ronaldo. There is nothing Ronaldo cannot do.
As much as I have watched Messi, I have watched every game Ronaldo has played for United and most of his Portugal matches. He is truly magical and with a powerful quality that just defies description. For me he is a Grand National Champion, a thoroughbred. Messi on the other hand is more of a zebra running from a predator. He may actually be quicker and with more finesse, but he is not a thoroughbred. Hell Ronaldo is more like the predatory cat chasing him. Eventually his power will overtake the little Messi because that is the thing about power, it always overcomes the weak. Poor Lio, I’m picking on him when I really don’t mean to. I actually really like him a lot and have defended him in the past before everyone jumped on his bandwagon. Before anyone mentioned his name with Ronaldo. But now he is the flavor of the moment and people are talking ridiculous talk like he is the best ever. This just pisses me off to no end let me tell you. So quick to dismiss the greats for this Johnny Come lately. Lets see if we are still singing and dancing Lio’s name in three years. I doubt it. But i bet you Ronaldo will be going strong for at least six more. Just my gut feeling on the subject.
March 23rd, 2010 at 6:55
@Jay wire: Where does all their talent come from mate? Spain or South America? The reason they are able to do that is because they have set up academies and have embedded scouts in those regions for decades. They have an advantage when it comes to signing youngsters because they are Spanish, because they have a reputation and pedigree but above all, because United and other European nations cannot compete against an institution that has history and tenure in a region. We could have very well discovered many of their players at the same time but unless one was a devout United fan, the chances of them signing for us are slim and none.
That is why I have suggested that United give up with looking for players in Spain, Italy and especially South America. That region will never belong to us. That is Real Madrid and Barcelona territory with a little bit of ownership going to Porto, Benfica and the big Italian clubs. Latin and portuguese is their advantage, not English. Where we should be looking is in Northern and Eastern Europe or even in Holland, Belgium, France and Germany. A much better chance of getting players to come to cold rainy England if they also come from a similar climate but also a Latin less background with more in common. Serbia, Russia, Croatia, Denmark, Norway, Sweden are producing great footballers that never get a chance to make it to the big leagues because the big teams there are over saturated with South Americans and their is a bias.
United needs to wake up and stop fighting a battle they will lose. So what if they sign a Brazilian. If he eventually makes good, he will up and leave for a Spanish giant anyway. After a while we start looking the way Everton look to us, a feeder. Enough.
March 23rd, 2010 at 8:31
@Taker: Villa is 28 years of age mate, almost 29. For 40 million quid, and unproved in rugged, hatchet type physical PL – I think it is too much money for a few year return. That’s just my honest opinion mate. I am sure that it will be another Berba situation, and although Villa is a good player in Spain will he work at United?
March 23rd, 2010 at 11:39
Aguero is overrated
March 23rd, 2010 at 11:48
@Jay wire:
You’re welcome
March 23rd, 2010 at 12:24
The Sun are saying we’re doing a deal with Valencia of £50mil for Silva and Villa before the World Cup. It’s a nice thought.
March 23rd, 2010 at 12:29
@Grognard: There’s not much we can do but go after foreign kids due to the stupid 20 mins rule in England. If a kid doesn’t live or was born within 20mins of your stadium, then unlucky you cant have him.
Fergie hates it. He was talking about our golden generation and said we wouldn’t have had any of them if the rule existed then. We might have got Nicky Butt. Maybe.
The good English players we used get at 12 or 13 and turn into brilliant players have to suffer the Morecambe or Scunthorpe or Luton youth systems and obviously do not progress as much as they would under us.
It was a stupid rule that the FA thought would lead to Man United paying £10mil to Scunthorpe for a great local Scunthorpe player at 18 rather than taking him for nothing at 13. Truth is those players will never develop under such lowly tutors.
March 23rd, 2010 at 13:25
@Traverse: That really would not represent value £50m for a player of his age.
Personally I would rather spend the money on the midfield.
March 23rd, 2010 at 14:06
@Stephen: Dude, it’s Silva + Villa for £50m…
March 23rd, 2010 at 14:41
Sorry boys working at the same time, I would take Silva but Villa we have two quick short strikers in Rooney and Owen, also Rooney will always start and he again is too simlar to Villa can’t see that one.
March 23rd, 2010 at 14:58
@Stephen: Just reporting the news…
I would like Silva, and I think he would fit in. Villa does represent a risk as he would be the larger chunk of that £50mil (probably £30mil), is a bit of a Rooney type player and is 28.
You’d have thought it was much more likely that Fergie would rather have Silva for £20mil and Benzema for £30mil, with Villa replacing him at Real.
March 23rd, 2010 at 16:11
@Traverse: I agree mat, that senario would spell the end for Berba though.
March 23rd, 2010 at 16:41
@CraigMc: I agree mate. Buying Villa for anything over 20 million is bad business because of his age. A great player but also far too old for us to be wasting our time. Also, didn’t United come out last year with a policy decision directly down from the Glazer’s to not buy players over 26 or 27? I will be shocked if we go for a striker who is as old as Michael Owen.
And we can all say what we want about Michael Owen, but Mickey is showing his class but saying he would like to extend his contract. He’s been screwed over by Fergie by not been given proper playing time and yet he wants to stay. That’s the kind of player and spirit we want on this team. He has become United for Life despite having been a red scouser for most of his past life. Lets refer to him as a REBORN RED DEVIL.
March 23rd, 2010 at 16:47
@Traverse: Silva I like because he can play across the midfield or either wing but Villa is too old. I don’t care how good he is now, you do not spend so much money on a 29 year old player. It’s bad business and I cannot see United or especially Fergie being that foolish. Silva would be nice but his ideal position is LW and three months ago I would have died for him to come. Now I am not so sure because I see Nani as being good enough for that position. His new found confidence and attitude is showing him to be making all the right moves. Sure he doesn’t star every game but gone are the terrible mental errors that used to plague him. The more he plays the better he will get. Next year Nani could be what Fletcher has been this year? After all, we saw glimpses of Fletcher arrival last year when he knocked on the door to greatness. This year he kicked it down like a drunk Scotsman returning from the pub tanked to the gills. Nani may just be that man next year.
March 23rd, 2010 at 16:55
if benzema wasn’t such a douchebag, I would love to see him and Silva arrive for 50 million. Of course, we would have to loan out/sell either Macheda, Wellbeck, or Diouf.
What about a goalkeeper… I guess they are not as cool as strikers and never get the rumor spotlight. Buffon is in the mix along with some Gea from Atletico Madrid. What happened to Neuer? For past months, every time I see Adler play he lets in 3 goals??? Grognard, whats going on?
March 23rd, 2010 at 16:59
@Traverse: I couldn’t agree more. That rule is killing football at the grass roots level because it keeps kids form having the freedom to pick and choose and follow their dreams. Like so many are born thinking that their dream is to one day play for Scunthorpe United. The FA are a ridiculous troupe of clowns who are always ridiculous with all their decisions. So much so their head clown quit yesterday after only nine months on the job. Perhaps he knew something we all don’t?
But still, despite the local borders, United need to find regions of the world that will be more assimilating towards us and to the English game in general. South America will never be a hotbed for English clubs. All we ever plan to get from there are kids who are not on the radar of Barca and Madrid, but especially Barca, Atletico and some of the other Spanish and Portuguese clubs who do extensive scouting on that continent, not to mention the creation of many academies. United should be doing the same thing in Serbia and Croatia, Bosnia, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Ukraine, Russia and the Nordic countries. We seemed to have a little bit of a door open inside Portugal but now that Queiroz is gone I’m not sure about that are anymore.
Cold weather or Baltic countries is the key. Go where they ain’t is what I say.
March 23rd, 2010 at 17:07
@Traverse: Now you’re talking and I honestly believe that is what Fergie is maneuvering for. I think all this talk to get Villa is nothing more than a ruse to force Madrid to show interest in Villa and in order to find room and money for him, they will be forced to dump Benzema and Raul for cut prices. Well this what Fergie is planning I’m sure. Force them to sell Benzema by putting pressure on them. Madrid and their fans would hate it if they failed to go after a beloved Spaniard and allowed him to go to the hated Manchester United. Not going to happen. They will pay the ridiculous price but will have to unload Benzema and Raul in the process because even they aren’t made of money and because they would have useless surplus. So look for Benzema to make it to United for something in the region of 20 to 25 million.
No need to pay top dollar for him because Madrid will be in fire sale mode and because no other team is going to pay that kind of money for what they see as a Madrid bust. Well let me remind everyone that last year Wesley Sneijder was a Madrid bust. He is currently the best player at Inter. I am not a big Benzema fan but he has got skill, would be a natural fit for Rooney as a strike partner and because Fergie knows what do with him……I think. Remember, despite his occasional gaff, in Fergie we trust. And I trust he won’t go for Villa. What a waste of money that would be.
March 23rd, 2010 at 17:14
@Stephen: Not unless we find a decent buyer. Fergie is not known for dumping high cost players for nothing. I could see him keeping Berba and using him and Owen the way he used Solksjaer and Sheringham as a duo to off set Cole and Yorke and give them needed rest. Still, Benzema or Villa might not be needed if Fergie continues to rely on 4-5-1. He needs to get his sack back and forget about trying to stop the opponent as opposed to remembering to attack the opponent. It’s working for him but that change in mindset is not one of my favorites to be honest. I want 4-3-3 or 4-2-2 and with Silva and Benzema or just Silva we can have that. And if he is thinking if Villa, it may be because Villa is comfortable not only as a ST, SS, but as a LW too. This would give Fergie a lot of options.
March 23rd, 2010 at 17:25
@[OPTI]Madschester United: Adler is fine. Leverkusen’s defense of late has sprung a leak. I remember in the mid 70’s when Bayern were winning European Cups that their domestic form was just terrible. Back then the game in Germany was attack attack attack and I remember seeing the great Sepp Maier giving up 4 or 5 goals every second game. One time he gave up 7 to Schalke at home. Bayern finished middle of the pack but retained the European Cup. Well Leverkusen is a tired team now because they do not have the depth or resources to keep up with Bayern and so they have been leaking goals of late but it’s not due to bad play from Adler. The problem is that he just can’t stop everything that is directed at him.
As for Neuer, Buffon Lloris, Akinfeev and others mentioned, I think we can kiss them all goodbye because EVDS has signed on for one more year. I doubt he did that to play the role of second fiddle. And keepers like Buffon, Neuer or Adler do not him as a tutor. I think his signing signified that Fergie is going to hold off for one more year before going after a keeper. I also think Neuer will end up at Bayern for personal as well as professional reasons. Hans Jorg Butt was nothing more than a stop gap and now I see them aggressively pursuing him. And when it comes to German born players, Bayern usually get what they want. If we o for a keeper next year I can see us going for Lloris or Adler as they would be available. Neuer will be off the market and I never see Buffon coming over. Rumors are flying that Chelsea will sell Cech and go after Casillas. That would be interesting. Cech is not the keeper he was but he still isn’t too bad. I’d seriously consider him as he is a great shot stopper and has great positioning. Can’t stop a penalty to save him and has become timid on high balls into the box due to his serious injury, but overall, a good keeper and potentially great if placed behind a great back four.
March 23rd, 2010 at 17:37
It looks like Rooney will be out of the Bolton game. Bad news that his knee is acting up again. Hope his knee tendinitis does not scuttle our season. Reminds me of a man named Hargo. He too was forced to play with knee tendinits and because of that, his knees became chronic. This only gets worse without rest. And because i have suffered from bouts of sever tendinitis in my elbow, I know that it takes about a month of not playing (in my case throwing a baseball and American football) and resting it. If they don’t it will continue to flair up on him until it starts to affect his play and possibly become a chronic problem. And this was brought on by playing him too much in the first place and then Rooney stupidly playing on that awful turf at Wembley. I’d be worried about this because I know what it feels like and how awful it can get. Hopefully Rooney will heal sooner than expected as he has has had history of doing so. We lose him for an extended time, and we lose the EPL and CL. And I’m not kidding. I could care less about the World Cup. He means everything to this club’s success. Without him we are no better than Aston Villa.
March 23rd, 2010 at 17:44
@Grognard: I guess you got offended by my response. That wasn’t the intention. I didn’t say or think you are stupid. But I’m pretty sure if I were to claim that all Ronaldo is good at is poke ins and penalty kicks then everyone has a right to question whether I really watch him play regularly. If I say he is too slow for a forward then I should not expect anything less than people questioning whether I regularly watch him. Because it’s the exact opposite. In Messi’s case most of his goals have been great solo efforts and he has his fair share of long range goals. In fact he hits more long range goals than Rooney. And let’s be honest,besides diving,what can Ronaldo do that Messi can’t? I know plenty of things Messi can do that no other player including Ronaldo can do. For instance, running at full speed with the ball glued to his feet. Gliding past 4 defenders as if they didn’t exist. We all know Ronaldo struggles to actually beat his man. There’s a myth that he can’t take free kicks ,but the facts indicate he is actually more accurate than Cristiano based on the success ratio. What I think is a more subjective issue is who brings more joy to each individual.
March 23rd, 2010 at 18:25
@Jay wire: I wasn’t offended as much as annoyed and frustrated. But to be fair to you mate, my blood was already boiling due to the things Owen was saying that just rubbed me the wrong way and put me in a surly mood. So lets just say after having a war with him I was not in the proper mental state to deal with your thoughts.
I have to say though that yet again you did say something that frustrated me. Your quote is: “And let’s be honest,besides diving,what can Ronaldo do that Messi can’t?” Now mate, I consider you a truly intelligent football mind and one of the true members of this blog that contributes substance over diarrhea. What I cannot believe is that you just said that. How many of Ronny’s qualities and clear advantages must I repeat? Go back to the March 14th thread and check out my post #314. It spells it all out in balck and white. Ronaldo has many more things in his kit bag than Messi. What Messi has is amazing and there are several key skills that he is better at then Ronaldo, but not by much. However when it comes to aerial ability, strength, ability to use two feet, ability to play with pain, showing reckless courage in the box and playing across the midfield as well as a striker, he is superior by a lot. His ability to take a long hard free kick or a long hard kick without having to run at the ball or dribble at high speed to get momentum is amazing. Last week Messi scored a left foot scorcher vs Stuttgart which i jumped at when I saw. but like a track star he need to build up speed with a great dribble to build up the power for that shot. And as hard as it was it was more a case of great placement as opposed to the velocity which compared to Ronaldo is not there.
And lets not forget the superiority in physic and mental strength. Ronaldo is a chiseled God with height, muscles, strong legs and the ability to run hard and long for over 90 minutes. His cardiovascular conditioning is like Park’s. Messi burns out late in most games. He short, light, and not very strong but he does have the advantage of that low center of gravity I previously mentioned. and that is his one big advantage over Ronny who towers over him. Messi is a little rug rat while Ronaldo is a tower of power.
Sorry Jaywire but I really do feel I make a lot of sense here. But again let me emphasize my great admiration and appreciation for Lio Messi. He is the real deal and a true great. If he stays healthy he will go down as one of the top ten players of all time, maybe even better. But I believe this now and i will continue to believe that Ronaldo will always be a bit better than him. So we disagree on this, that’s fine. I’d say I’m ready to put this debate to bed as we have exhausted it at least until the World Cup.
March 23rd, 2010 at 18:41
@Grognard: He won’t change his ideas now matey, for me I would be suprised if we purchased another striker, only if Real want to sell Benzema for a decent loss.
I still think we totally lack creativity in the centre of the park, also we could do with another ball winner as Fletch is really the only one and Hargo for me is finished.
March 23rd, 2010 at 18:48
@Grognard: Eh when did Rooney get tendinitis?
March 23rd, 2010 at 20:41
@Stephen: God no, we do not need another ball winner mate. Ball winners are not creative. We need that attacking central midfielder who pulls all the strings in attack like Wesley Schneijder did for Inter against Chelsea. My favorite formation is an attacking “Diamond” formation where the AMF plays just behind to strikers and the DMF plays way back just in front of the four defenders. It requires the AMF to be box to box for maximum effectiveness and for wide midfielders to also be box to box. I love it when it’s in use properly.
March 23rd, 2010 at 20:44
@Taehr: From what I am reading he started to feel it before his game with England vs Egypt but he played anyway and that’s why Fergie was so pissed off with him, and rightfully so. The problem is the soft pitch at Wembley mad it even worse and he played late into the game. Tendinitis is a real bitch to deal with.
March 23rd, 2010 at 21:17
@Traverse: Silva has been mysteriously silent recently. All the good noises have been coming from Mata, who is supposedly a more regular scorer than Silva. In 08/09 he had a whopping 11 goals and 13 assists for a winger.
A year ago I would have been on the Silva bandwagon, but now I don’t know. Between 2005- and 2009 he scored a meager total of 17 goals for Valencia.
50million £ for him and a 29 year old Villa? Personally I’ll pass.
We’ll a get a 10+goals midfielder next year in Cleverley (hopefully he’s got more to the rest of his game than Gibson) and Diouf, Owen, King and Macheda still haven’t had there last word in this matter.
March 23rd, 2010 at 23:48
@Grognard: please god let us get a replacement for scholes and play the diamond.
March 24th, 2010 at 0:37
@Grognard: Where did you hear this, mate?? I thought he was fine for Bolton.
March 24th, 2010 at 2:47
Video proof that Torres is a transvestite
Link
March 24th, 2010 at 2:57
@gator: AH MEN!
March 24th, 2010 at 3:03
@Redrich: Several sources but here is the main one.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/2903148/Oh-no-its-pain-Roo-knee.html
March 24th, 2010 at 3:07
@gator:
Good stuff mate. Thanks.
March 24th, 2010 at 5:24
@Grognard: Guardians spainish correspondent has a very different take on this:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2010/mar/22/leo-messi-barcelona-la-liga-spain
Ronaldo is good but not God as you make him out to be. He couldnt keep Real in Europe could he? How is he God then?
March 24th, 2010 at 5:46
@Grognard: from the same article:
March 24th, 2010 at 7:31
@jos: Not even going to waste my time with that. I’ve made my point and my case as well as my peace. Lets move on to other things because frankly, I am bored sick of this subject. I really don’t care what others believe, and they could care less what i believe, so really, what’s the point? Lets all move on.
March 24th, 2010 at 8:46
@jos: Hasn’t Ronaldo played less games than Messi though Jos??? He was out injured, and banned for a few games for being red carded. So if that is correct, can we say that game for game if all played, that Messi would have come out on top against Ronnie – just a thought mate!
March 24th, 2010 at 8:49
@NicoQB: I agree – I am not in favour of Villa, and I can’t see we need Silva. But I am not Fergie
I want us to buy someone who guarantees GOALS and is a BIG presence in the box. And I don’t care how much Fergie has to pay to get such a player.
March 24th, 2010 at 8:52
@Grognard: Not another Tendinitis bitch – another Hargo in Rooney????
March 24th, 2010 at 8:59
@Grognard: Fletcher used to do that role Grog, and he could still do it, IF we get a really strong defensive or central MF of the Essien ilk. But not obviously as injury prone as Essien. Fergie seems to be using Park in that forward link between MF and strikers at present! Oh if only the lad had balance and composure and shooting prowess in the box. He needs to practice his heading skills along with Rooney, when Rooney does his after training stints of staying behind for more practice. One thing amazing about Park, he always seems to be able to find space in oppositions box, he is a feckin ghost, who eludes defenders like they are blindfolded
.
March 24th, 2010 at 13:47
@CraigMc: Messi has 25 in 24 games (in the league, and a total of 32 goals already) He scored 38 goals and had 27 assists last season. Thats ridiculous. I dont think any footballer in recent years has had that kind of stats. The frightening thing is theres no stopping him this year either. He can actually eclipse his season exploits! This guy is not real!!! I today saw all three latest Barca games and really he was unreal! The second goal against Zargoza, the penalty win, the screamer against Stuttgart… where do u stop. He himself made most of those 8 goals.
If he wins Argentina a WC he will no doubt go down as an all time great (or maybe even the greatest taht ever was or is!)
March 24th, 2010 at 14:54
@jos: I’m not disagreeing or agreeing mate because I don’t follow Spanish football, but I did watch Argentina’s world cup qualifiers and to be honest I don’t think any Argentina players were really all that in those games. I will be amazed too IF the Argies win the world, but we never know eh? Could you give the Ronaldo goals scored to games played please mate?
March 24th, 2010 at 15:09
@CraigMc:
Totally agree. While Rooney has surprised me with his competence at playing the lone forward, i still believe he’s been screaming out for years for a more clinical Saha type striker. Villa, just like Tevez, would be a waste of money because he’s too similar a striker. I thought we had possibly found that when we bought Diouf, but even though i haven’t seen a great deal of him in games, what i have seen has been a little underwhelming. He does still have time to prove himself though and i hope he does. I would actually hold off on a striker this summer as i don’t think it’s a priority. Even though i don’t believe him to be an ideal partner, i would prefer Berbatov was given a real chance to strike up a partnership with Rooney. I mean he cost £30 mil, either play him or sell him. The longer we mess him around (a start one game, last 15 mins the next) the less we learn and the greater the decrease in his value. It’s our midfield that is our major concern. If Nani is going to play on the left, he needs to continue he’s steady improvement and give us a god damn goal threat cutting in. Valencia has done ok in that regard, but all of those were before Christmas, he needs to improve consistency on that front as well as working on the variation in his wingplay. That leaves the middle of the park which is a mess. Here we are definitely crying out for some creativity and dynamism. Fletcher is probably the only player i’d keep and that would be in a defensive capacity. Love his commitment and energy and at times he seems like the only midfielder that wants to break ranks and get into the box, but the truth is that for all his effort he lacks quality in an attacking sense. We desperately need some creative talent in the middle of the park, able to spot both the long AND short ball, comfortable moving the ball and handy in front of goal. We actually deal with the problems we have and we could be playing some vintage football next season.
Doubt it will happen though.
March 24th, 2010 at 16:29
With Rooney’s knee injury we are going to have to manage him only playing him in the big games (i.e. Champions League, the Chelsea and City game). This is the worst possible news for us. Without Rooney leading the line we are completely toothless. Berbatov is the only remaining striker and he is not good at playing on his own upfront and seems to do better as a support striker. Diouf is a joke. So we are screwed.
Ive had tendonitis myself and the only real way to deal with it is a lot of rest. The more Rooney plays the worst it could get, and if Capello insists on making him play through pain in South Africa it will probably mean he will be out most of next season.
Fergie has himself to blame. Rooney is not built to play every single game. His all action style invites injuries. We should have bought a top class striker to replace Tevez. Instead we got Owen who was hardly used when fit and now we need him he is injured.
Im praying the knee injury is nothing that a week off football cannot fix. Otherwise our season will end in disappointment
March 24th, 2010 at 16:37
@CraigMc: Tendinitis in the elbow comes from throwing too much or from swing a bat or golf club etc around too much. With the legs it comes from not enough rest and from running on rough surfaces.
I blame this on one man and it’s not Rooney. I have squawked all season about Fergie’s reluctance to rest Rooney and his over reliance on the lad while he walks around saying he has faith in his club and needs no new players and cannot find value in the market. When in reality what he should have done had he a pot to piss in is buy the player he wanted as a striker in January to get him then to help the club and to offer Rooney more rest. He also would be avoiding the World Cup price gouge that is coming.
But the reality is he had no proper depth or confidence in Berba, Owen at the time or the new Diouf bag and so he played Rooney into the ground. Then he goes and blames the Wembley pitch for causing it when the injury showed up before that. True Rooney should not have played on that soft disgrace for a pitch but still, stress on the tendon comes from over work. And if Fergie had his reported Ronaldo money to spend on the team, then why not spend it last January? Inquiring minds want to know.
March 24th, 2010 at 16:46
@jos: this is from the same guy.
“http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2010/feb/22/cristiano-ronaldo-real-madrid-villarreal”
March 24th, 2010 at 16:47
@CraigMc: OK, just call me MYTH BUSTER. First and foremost, the reason why Park seems to find space in the attacking area is because opposing managers and teams show the same lack of respect towards him that I do. They know he is a useless and talentless git and so they say leave him alone and double up on Rooney or someone else. Now everyone is going to jump down my throat because of my honesty but that is the truth.
But here’s the thing. The only way Park can turn that lack of concern around and start receiving proper respect as a dangerous offensive footballing threat is to start making more plays and scoring more goals just like he has been doing of late. Fact is the lad is making the most of his opportunities and is delivering more often than he is failing. Last game he land on hi s ass a lot and screwed up many opportunities near the box but he delivered in the clutch and when nobody bothered to to mark him in the box and it’s that kind of clutch play and determination to not quit that is winning over many fans and has Fergie positively giddy when selecting him. Park will never have the balance mate. Thats not something you can teach. You either have it or you don’t, but he has worked on his finishing skills and hiss passing and crossing and it is baring fruit.
As long as he continues to improve I have no problem with that, but as soon as teams decide to mark him more closely and take him more seriously, then I think we shall see less of him on the pitch because he will once again show the fact that he is just not good enough. I hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think I am. For me he still has one value and that is as a shadow and marker of opposing teams attacking wingers or midfielders. And for that I am grateful.
March 24th, 2010 at 17:03
I think the player we need is a player with the brain of Giggs and the work rate of park who can link the midfield to the attack to make the 4-5-1 formation work perfectly. Is there any player out there that we can get that as this talent?
March 24th, 2010 at 17:10
@jos: Regardless of what I think about him and Ronaldo, I agree that Messi is one special special player and I for one fully admit to having loved watching him play for a long time. I just hate that he plays for Barca because I hate Barca out of fear and respect.
For me Messi is being touted a lot the last week or so because of his incredible form over the past three games. Yes he has been incredible and even though I would question some of the marking or lack of marking he has received, he has delivered the goods and a couple of his goals over the last few games defy explanation as they were truly great. But some of his goals are also very easy efforts where the marking was just awful or non existent as well. Give him credit for taking his chances. He is certainly giving Ronaldo the motivation to up his game and show his class.
But before we get into this debate over Messi being the greatest ever lets please grab some perspective. For Messi to get the love and respect from me and from serious pundits of the sport, he has to deliver at the World Cup. It’s that simple. When I hear morons claim that at 22 he is better than the legend Diego Maradona, I just shake my head and chuckle. How fickle a society we have become. Maradona sing handedly won trophies for his clubs Barca and Napoli as both teams were pretty useless without him. Above all, he won the 86 World Cup all by himself because that Argentina club had nothing impressive about it other than Diego’s magic (both the good and the bad) which I am sure all of England remembers quite well.
Maradona took two Argentina clubs which were low on talent to two straight World Cup finals. He was incredible between 1990 to 1990. What he did with Napoli was incredible as his form took a little club to thew top of Serie A despite the fact that they too had very little else other than Diego to scare opponents with. Certainly not the powerhouses from Milan who had the three German great Kilinsmann, Mattheus and Brehme on Inter and van Basten, Gullit and Rijskaard in Milan. Napoli only had Maradona. And even when he was high on drugs and self abuse, he delivered the good for both club and country.
My point is simple, when Lio Messi delivers for his country a World Cup win or at the very least an entry into the final, then and only then can we start comparing him with the great Maradona or the other greats like Beckenabuer, Pele, Zidane who have delivered the goods. I will concede to his greatness when this happens, provided he was a major reason for the team’s success. And also, to be fair in this, I demand the same from Cristiano Ronaldo. He has helped greatly in getting his small country to a Euro final and to a third place match in the World Cup which is in itself a strong accomplishment, but he has yet to deliver the goods in those tournaments. Hard to expect him to win either tournament with a country like Portugal who is good at the game but hardly strong enough to win the whole thing.
So for him, the requirements are a bit different. Winning is not expected, but personal greatness is. Golden boot and or Golden Ball is an indication that he took his team as far as any human could. Argentina has the tools as a nation to always be a contender to win the WC, with or without Messi. Ronaldo has to up his game in order to get the kind of media attention and respect because Portugal is just not seen as a viable threat the way Argentina is.
So if Lio wins the World Cup and plays well, then he will get all the man love I can muster. If Ronaldo can score five or more goals in the WC, then he will continue to be the man from my point of view regardless of what his country does. It’s like the club sides they play for. Ronaldo has to do it all alone on a very individualistic side with overrated, selfish players while Messi gets the support and quality from the best team in the world and wins all the accolades simply because he is part of a true team. Lets see if he can take a sputtering and erratic Argentina very far. My prediction is NO, he can’t.
March 24th, 2010 at 17:18
@Ozzierooy: Why are people so obsessed with how much Berba cost? Who cares, it’s not coming out of my pocket. I expect my team to break the bank when buying players. Sometimes they win, sometimes they lose, it’s really no skin of my back because I look at it with the perspective of a fan and not an accountant.
Let United worry about paying the costs for success or failure. It’s our job to support the team and players like Berba without always showing the money card. Christ all mighty, the player has enough pressure on him, he certainly doesn’t need that shoved down his throat every chance especially since he agrees that he was not worth that amount. Man City caused that price to go up and he was powerless to stop it. So lets get off his back with how much he cost. Berba is a better fit for Rooney because he is a different style of player. Well I’m not sure I buy that and I’m not sure that a player just like Rooney wouldn’t work just as well. It really comes down to the tactics and the manager, not the two players. Use the right tactics and you will get them working better together. Use negative tactics where you play one out of position and you don’t. It’s that simple.
March 24th, 2010 at 17:19
@colver: Totally agree mate.
March 24th, 2010 at 17:22
@Cocxxy: Hard to find a player with real skill that has the work rate of Park. But there are plenty of players with skill I would look at in the center of midfield. The one that is top of my list is Gourcuff.
March 24th, 2010 at 17:25
Another thing we need in finding a player who can replace Scholes is that he has to have the ability to replace Giggs in free kick skill. We presently have nobody who is strong enough to pose a real menace when taking free kicks. Giggs is decent at it and of course Ronaldo was legendary at it. It’s a weapon that is currently not in our Arsenal and that we must get. All the more reason why Gourcuff or Silva look like threats there. Villa is also capable of this as well as taking penalties, but again I bring up his age as a deterrent.
March 24th, 2010 at 17:50
@Grognard: Totally agree to what you say here. Messi still cant be classed in the same pool as Pele, Puskas, Best, Cryuff, Beckenbauer and Maradona. he has to win a WC to enter the club. Anybody who feels otherwise is not doing justice to these greats.
Likewise for Ronaldo!
March 24th, 2010 at 17:54
@Johnsom33: Actually the title says God of Madrid (as eulogised by the Madrid based press namely AS & Marca).
Do Madristas have a fascination with divinity? I mean St. Iker and all…
March 24th, 2010 at 18:23
@CraigMc:
Ronaldo Stats:
League – Games played: 18, Goals: 15, Assists: 5
CL – Games played: 6, Goals: 7, Assists: 0, total mins played: 450
Messi CL Stats:
League – Games played: 24, Goals: 25, Assists: 9
CL – Games played: 7, Goals: 4, Assists: 0 total mins played: 630
the way people have been talking about Messi’s creativity I thought he had like 15-20 assists to his name already…
March 24th, 2010 at 18:46
@Grognard:
I wasn’t having a go at Berbatov, more the actual management of the player. I think Berbatov has knuckled down a lot this year and when given a chance to start, has more often than not turned in a good performance or weighed in with a goal. The problem is that he hasn’t started anywhere near enough games which therefore has an adverse effect on his confidence and a possible partnership with Rooney. Now while i’ve never really thought of him as the perfect foil for Rooney, i do believe they can still be good together because they’re both extremely intelligent players. But they need to be given the opportunity to gel, week in, week out. Of course that will never happen on a consistent basis with the midfield we have , which is why i was advocating forgetting about a striker and concentrating on repairing our midfield.
March 24th, 2010 at 18:47
@jos:
Because Best and Puskas won many a World Cup.
March 24th, 2010 at 18:51
@AndyCR7: remove Messi’s last two league games and he is at 22 games and 19 goals… not as impressive. Of course, double hattricks are always impressive.
United > Ronaldo > Messi!
March 24th, 2010 at 18:54
@Ozzierooy: Mate Tevez left because Berbatov was being played CONSISTENTLY in nearly all games with Rooney etc. So Berba had his opportunity, but he seldom fits in mate! Sorry Berba fans – not trying to enrage you, just answering Ozzie’s post!
March 24th, 2010 at 18:58
@AndyCR7: Well that puts things in a more EVEN light, thanks Andy. If Ronnie had been fit and played those extra 6 plus games, I think he would be at least level pegging with Messi
.
March 24th, 2010 at 19:00
@Grognard: Giggsy – Free Kick expertise – wow, I think NOT Grog – sorry mate! Ronnie and Becks were phenominal because they worked their arses off practicing free kicks, where are the ones stepping up and working their arses off to get great with free kick in United team at present!
March 24th, 2010 at 19:01
@Grognard:
Totally agree. While i love Messi, all this premature talk about ‘The Best Ever’ is absurd. But hey, that’s the media for you. Always have been prone to chronic bouts of hyperbole.
March 24th, 2010 at 19:05
@Ozzierooy: and its a testament to their greatness that they r still in that club!!!
messi prob will also be in a few yrs… so cud ron be if he can win portugal something
March 24th, 2010 at 19:06
@Cocxxy: No but we can keep Park and buy somebody who is outstanding at linking MF and strikers. Easy peasy mate!
.
March 24th, 2010 at 19:13
@CraigMc:
Oh, i’m noo Berba lover. Didn’t even want to sign him in the first place. And i’m the first one to admit to being severely disappointed with Berbatov’s first season, even if Fergie has said he didn’t use him in his best position. (Whatever that means) And in general as the season went on, both Berbatov and Rooney were sacrificed more and more to accomodate Ronaldo. But i’m sure you can agree he’s looked better this season. Not amazing, but better. For me, it boils down to the fact that if we’re looking for other strikers then we should sell him. The problem is that this season, i don’t believe he has had a fair enough crack of the whip, to feel comfortable selling him. Fairer than Owen, but still not fair enough!
March 24th, 2010 at 19:16
@Grognard: More fool the opposition if they don’t take Park seriously Grog, because even when he was falling on his arse, which I hated and named him Park on his arse, I gotta give it to him that he still got into the box with speed, still ghosted in so many times unnoticed, because he is a nippy, elusive little GIT, and persistent at that. However I do agree that his end product wasn’t there, because he fell over at crucial times. I love his work rate though, and I love his ghosting, especially in the big games, because not only does he man mark certain creative players out of the game, but the lad also sneaks into open spaces, and scores the odd goals – ask Arsenal, AC Milan etc. I really hope he does start to stay on his feet and get more goals for us, because his endeavour deserves it
. He got me shouting for him now on the terraces 
.
March 24th, 2010 at 19:17
@jos: If the argies win the world cup ill get a tatoo on my belly where messis head would come up to if he were standing infront of me
not going to happen. Argentina are real madrid of a team. all their best players play the same role and messi should be a cm in that team w/aguero a winger maradona bled his brain out in the eighties with blow. england have a much better chance. hell id pic the US to do the argies if the spread was good.
March 24th, 2010 at 19:24
@Ozzierooy: Mate I LOVE LOVE LOVE Little Mickey Owen. He is the best we have at playing off the shoulder of the last man. He also didn’t get enough games really, and Fergie admitted it was unfair to him, but it was just that Rooney had hit blistering form. I did notice at beginning of season when Rooney was playing not so blistering, that Mickey didn’t even then get the games to prove his worth, because Fergie said he wanted to persist with Berba. Well we all know the snooze football that produced – boredom on the terraces mate. Mickey Owen CL hat trick and still dropped. A massive winning goal against City, and still didn’t get more opportunites. Mickey will get the goals mate, just a pity that he gets injured too. As for selling Mickey before Berba – well won’t happen because Mickey cost us nothing, and Fergie has so much respect for the lads professional attitude. He hasn’t done anything to deserve being sold.
March 24th, 2010 at 19:29
@Grognard: I agree that he gets space because players and managers are sleeping on his talent. but thats a good thing. it will not last though as he is making teams pay.
But I think they were marking him when he scored they just couldnt hold him remember he took studs to the side of his head for that goal.
March 24th, 2010 at 19:34
@Grognard: Fergie has in fairness wanted to