Jan 09
Match Preview: Manchester United vs. Liverpool
In what is widely known as one of the preeminent rivalries in world football – and all of sport – Manchester United and Liverpool have faced off 180 times in almost 120 years, with United holding a 70 to 60 edge in the wins department.
15 of those 180 meetings have come in the FA Cup, with Liverpool’s three wins paling to United’s eight, which include wins in the final in 1977 – which denied Liverpool the League/FA Cup/European Cup treble United would win 22 years later -and 1996.
Today, United will look to increase those advantages and heap more misery upon their fierce North West rivals, who visit Old Trafford in the most eye-catching tie, at least nominally, of the FA Cup’s third round.
Last season, United were stunningly dumped out at this juncture by then-League One Leeds United, who won 1-0 at Old Trafford against an under-strength United side. Judging from all that, Sir Alex Ferguson has said leading up to today’s match, he won’t be taking the occasion lightly, both due to the bitter taste of last year’s defeat and today’s opponent, despite their current state of disarray.
Some rough spots were expected after Roy Hodgson replaced Rafael Benitez in the summer, but it’s been a forgettable campaign on the whole for Liverpool, bar an unbeaten first-place finish in their Europa League group.
Liverpool won only one of their first eight Premier League matches, including a 3-2 defeat at Old Trafford on September 19 and a shock 2-1 home defeat to Blackpool in early October, and they exited the Carling Cup in the third round after losing to League Two side Northampton Town on penalties. A three-match win streak spanning late October and early November proved to be a false awakening, as Liverpool come into today with only three wins in their last ten league encounters and defeats in three of their last four.
Wednesday’s 3-1 defeat at Blackburn was Hodgson’s last match in charge, as he lost the players, the fans’ support, and from the looks of it, his mind. Yesterday, Liverpool announced his sacking departure by mutual consent, and with it, the return of Liverpool legend/former manager/fans’ favorite Kenny Dalglish. The change will no doubt galvanize the support, but Liverpool come to Old Trafford closer to the bottom than the top and with one win, two draws, and seven defeats in 10 away league matches, so he has more things to worry about than rallying the fans.
However, there’s no doubt that Liverpool have talent, even if it is underperforming, and we should see the likes of Fernando Torres and Steven Gerrard on the pitch today.
All the same, we should see a strong United side as well. Rio Ferdinand will be available after being rested against Stoke City, and Edwin Van der Sar could also return after missing the last two matches with the flu.
The biggest selection question involves the availability of Wayne Rooney, who picked up an ankle knock at West Brom and was held out in the win over Stoke. However, even if he sits, United will be set in the striking department. Dimitar Berbatov was the hat trick hero against Liverpool in September, and Javier Hernandez has opened 2011 with a winner at West Brom and a goal and an assist against Stoke. And there’s also a certain former Liverpool legend in United’s ranks who could be called upon if needed.
There’s no telling what to expect from Liverpool today, but it’s best to err on the side of caution and say that the occasion will see an inspired side take the pitch. But will motivation, inspiration, and Dalglishation be enough to push Liverpool to the upset? Not only do the odds not favor it, recent history doesn’t either. United have won six of the last seven meetings at Old Trafford and are 12-1-4 in the last 17 overall meetings.
On top of that, United are in much better form and much better spirits, and they won’t be starved for motivation or inspiration either.
Prediction: 3-1 United
Related items from Red Rants:
- Man Utd v Everton: Preview
- Manchester United 2006/2007 Season Review
- Some Reading Material Ahead of Grand Slam Sunday
- Porto it is then…
- Portsmouth Preview
Tags: Manchester United Fixtures
Opti (541)
Stephen (479)
RedDevilEddy (459)
Craig Mc (345)
Moscow is my heaven (272)
@[OPTI] Madschester United: I have yet to see our UEFA teams do well against Spanish or Italian UEFA clubs. And if they did do well it’s only because a poor club has a hard time breaking down a club that plays ten men behind the ball even more than a good club has a problem doing that. Poor English clubs win with one or two chances while playing bleak and uninspiring football that can best be described as anti football and total rubbish. And if you cannot see that then you are blinded by national bias and bad taste.
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@Grognard: Fulham beat Juventus, Hamburg, and Werder Bremen on way to final, while Liverpool made it to the Semi-final as well. Chelsea lost to eventual winners Inter and Utd lost in a cruel match against Bayern while Arsenal got smashed by Barca in quarters.
This year, Atletico Madrid and Getafe from Spain and Juventus, Palermo, and Sampdoria in Italy did not even qualify from their respective Euro League groups this year. Spurs won their Group of Death, Utd let in one goal in group stage, and Chelsea qualified after 4 games. Arsenal ended up 2nd in their group and have to beat Barca (again).
EPL > any other league when looking on the AVERAGE (i.e. not discussing which league has the overall best team — Barca hands down).
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@Johnsom33- “they [Barca] pass that ball around a lot and most of the time it’s not even a threatening pass. It’s a safe pass to the next open player” that’s from one commentator (Spizzy). If you do watch even a small fraction of Barca games you’d know that can’t be any further from the truth. If you are doubtful I dare you to watch the very next Barca game. Count the number of attacking passes they make, particularly in the opposition’s box. Compare with teams that you think are the best attacking sides in the world and if even one of them can surpass Barca’s attacking passes by even a single pass then I’m wrong and I take it back. It’s when ppl come up with stuff like this that I think they don’t even watch these games.
If you say, I can’t stand Barca because Iniesta and Busquets are theatrical then I won’t argue much because there’s an element of truth. But to say Barca just pass the ball around in non- threatening areas is factually false. I’m not stopping anyone from expressing their feelings but if you lie or say something untrue then I’ll point it out. Another thing is a lot of ppl are saying they just pass and pass endlessly and that’s what makes them boring. A big part of the team’s game is dribbling. Messi, Pedro,Iniesta,Alves are all dribblers. So there’s certainly a degree of bias or ignorance in some of these statements.
Another one(Spizzy) “teams in Spain do park the bus and performances like the Hercules game are quite rare”. Another falsehood. Even Grognard testified that they don’t and he spoke correctly about how that league is primarily based on attack. Finally “he[Guardiola] inherited a great team..”. That was Stephen. Anyone who regularly follows Barca knows for a fact Pep inherited nothing. He assembled a different team and got rid of Rikjaard’s core team and I pointed it out. So can you accuse me when I say I don’t think some ppl even watch them play? How would you react if someone says “the Premiership is boring because teams like Spurs and Arsenal park the bus”? I’m guessing ur 1st instinctive reaction would be “do you even watch the league”. Does it then make sense to accuse you of “acting like you’re the only one who watches that league” If ppl had said “Barca is boring” and stopped there or at least give a reason like”they don’t do a lot of aerial balls or shoot often outside the box” then I would have let it go.
I pride myself in my objectivity. If there was a reason in the conversations I was having, to criticise Barca I would have. They have many flaws but there was no context for me to point them out. You talk about bias as if it’s a universal thing, like just because a lot of ppl are biased against Barca and me being a fan, I’m biased in my opinions for Barca. Wrong. I speak a lot of positives about United in areas I feel deserve praise. In fact in most of those cases I think I’ve shown objectivity eg the Glazers debate. I may be wrong but I think I am the only one in support of that regime. I support my opinions with hard facts. Whereas those who are anti Glazers base their case on speculation of things of the future for which there is no present indication to support these future events. It’s like we’re judging them in a similar way to the movie Minority Report. But I also criticise the club in areas that deserve it eg technical dept. I always bring facts to the table in my arguements. So I don’t think I suffer from bias as historical evidence will prove.
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@Johnsom33-On the Carrick case, I’m not the only one who thinks likewise as you insinuate. The arguements I’ve had with ppl are based on statements like “he is a p***y and needs to grow a pair” or “he only makes the safe pass”. That’s the whole story. His role means he has to make those types of passes and I convey my opinions based on that and other various facts. But the responses I get from some ppl don’t make much sense. “we all know he used to do those hollywood passes so why has he stopped”. Duh. Because he is playing a different role where he can’t afford to take such risks especially for a defensive minded Ferguson. In any case he does make the occasional direct attack pass during a match. It has nothing to do with me thinking I know everything. When I said he has been United’s most important player that statement began like this “in my opinion…” and ended like this “anyway it’s a subjective matter”. I think I was actually responding to you. I think it makes more sense to say “Ferguson should grow a pair and restore Carrick to a more advanced role” rather than attack the player for obeying instructions as some ppl do. In general I think I’m very objective in my opinions and I always bring facts. If you can dispute that then support ur objection with an example. It’s when ppl start passing unsubstantiated opinions that I begin to doubt and question their truthfulness or objectivity and I don’t think that’s out of line.
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@ Owen- CQ is a great coach but not a great manager. That’s clear. But when it comes to football systems on the pitch he is one of the very best. He failed to unite the team(Portugal) and there were a lot of background problems with the football association, but he is a great coach
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Can any one tell me is this still a Man Utd blog ???
Let Barca win or loose,why we should worry until we play them.Please discuss the curious cases of Bebe and Hargo instead of discussing Biscuit and Pique.
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@Jay wire: You have to show medals if you are to be considered great.Unfortunately,CQ has nothing.It is too early to tell him great but can easily be said that Man Utd and Fergie made him over-hyped.And his stats prove it.
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My dick is hard
That’s more interesting than Barca. Why is no-one talking about how Carlos Tevez always looks as though he is about to come? Nasty fucker, but oh well, you know them argentinians…
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We are lacking any serious stuff to discuss about United. The Bebe sage has had no new fuel added to its fire (aka no new info about him). We haven’t seen Park, bebe, Obertan, Macheda, and Chicha play in quite a while.
We need events to discuss…
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Here we go again. @Owen and @Stephen- No one is saying Ferguson is useless or he can’t win without CQ. You keep saying we won before CQ came and after and we all agree to that obvious fact. But what did we win before he came? It was all domestic titles mainly. Late 80s and throughout the 90s the rest of Europe developed technically and England was left behind. That’s why we had no impact in the European competitions. The Italians in particular had begun developing sophisticated football techniques and they dominated Europe. English teams were still stuck largely in the early 80s. Hoof the ball up to the “big centre forward”. 442 was the system every team in the Premiership employed. So clearly you did not need much technical expertise to compete in England but it most definitely was necessary in the rest of Europe. In fact there was no way any team could’ve won the Champions League without some serious technical innovation. A look at the winners of the 90s who were of a high tech standard in particular can give you an indication of why we didn’t have much of an English teams would just bring the old 442 and would always fall flat. If you look carefully at the team that eventually won the Champions League, it was really because of spirited performances and a gung ho never say die approach. We were poor defensively. In the group stages we had results like 3-3 with Barcelona(one of my favorite games of all time). Last minute moment of brilliance from Giggs in the semi 1st leg vs Juventus to make it 1-1 when Zidane had terrorized our midfield the whole game. A monster performance from Roy Keane in the 2nd leg when we had conceded 2 early goals. Even in the final we were generally outplayed by Munich and again the never say die spirit gave us the win. Point is Ferguson won domestic titles in a league that did not value technical standards.
Just look at how things changed when foreign coaches started flocking to England. Suddenly Arsenal became a real threat. Chelsea(Gullitt, Vialli,Ranieri) became much of a top 4 team and the likes of Houllier took Liverpool to a higher level. There was clearly more competition because technical standards went up in the league. There was a need to adapt and we did. We brought in CQ who was officially appointed as the FIRST TEAM COACH. That was the same season we introduced the 4-5-1 system particularly in Europe a radical shift from the 4-4-2 we had all been accustomed to. One notable thing was the way the team particularly, the defence was now very organized and we leaked less goals in Europe(except of course the Madrid games) Coincidence? I think not. When he came back from madrid our defence further improved even if we lost to Chelsea with an significant increase in our clean sheets and even less goals conceded.
2 seasons later we were the best attacking team in Europe with a unique football system pretty similar to the Madrid of 2003 of an interchanging attack(Ronaldo main striker, Figo, Raul, supported by Zidane in hole and midfield). Coincidence? I don’t know. Two sitting playmakers(Scholes and Carrick) were introduced. He sometimes employed the same tactic with Cambiasso and Beckham at Madrid in central midfield sitting around the centre circle, although that usually meant one pure striker. One thing is certain. We became a more organized unit both in attack and defence and were at times unplayable. Also we became more of a force on the highly technical European stage. We went even further the next season claiming the CL and our defence was even meaner and more organized.
Then he left. Next season we did well stats wise and broke defensive records and lost in Rome. But a certain degree of instability was begin to be seen particularly in attack. The manager admitted to not knowing how to use one of the forwards. Our strikers generally found it difficult to score. If I’m not telling the truth please say so. But we were still strong defensively, and in Europe were we continued the 5 or 3 man midfield of recent years. But the following season things got a bit tricky. A generally blunt attack, with the exception of Rooney. Some seriously depressing football at times exhibiting a high level of disorientation and lack of good organization in attack(till the latter half of the season).
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This season has been even worse. We’ve been incredibly disorganized and sloppy in almost all our matches. Our once solid defence is leaking goals with alarming regularity. So far only one match has been worth watching really because of the incredible level of our sloppiness. The whole team looks unstable and confused. Since, 2009 there has been so much chopping and changing of formations, roles and team selections, that any semblance of organization is now just a faded dream. It is abundantly clear that we are now the most disoriented team in Europe and that explicitly points towards a poor technical dept. We are gradually losing our grip in Europe and any injury or loss to the current defence will expose our many weaknesses.
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@Grognard: I did mate, and I appreciate the olive leaf – which, by the way, I have taken up.
Sorry for no reply, but I’m not on here as much anymore.
Sunday’s game will be a true measure of our defensive metal, and if all goes well, a sign that our away form has stiffened up.
I’ll be happy with a draw, and that’s what I predict.
Spurs 1-1 United.
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@[OPTI] Madschester United: I actually think that the standard of play in the PL has become very ordinary in the last season and a half.
The blocking tactics you see more and more, are implemented because this is really the only way that the lowly clubs can stand a chance of gaining points. They are always in a ‘relegation avoidance mode’ because the players they can afford to buy are only of the caliber of the league below.
It’s a perpetual thumb-in-the-dike until they eventually are swamped by the tide of better finances.
The real cause of player decline, is that the English base is complete crap right now, and until that standard rises, the PL will be reliant on expensive foreign talent to prop up the shortcomings of its own foundations!
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Conclusion. 1.
CQ is a great coach who made us a more organized, stable and well oiled team with a great defence.
Evidence.
1. Since his association with the club and while he was around we were able to combine attack and defence seamlessly.
2. Our defence has improved and has been more organized .
Conclusion 2.
He helped the club to get a better grip on the highly technical European arena.
Evidence.
1.Club’s failure to compete with European teams’ tactical prowess particularly in protecting goal, prior to CQ’s arrival and 2. better performances particularly in tactical battles after he came.
Conclusion 3.
He was responsible for the technical side of our team and coaching.
Evidence
1. Appointment as 1st team coach.
2. A more continental approach to our football particularly the introduction of 4-5-1 when he came.
3. A defence foundation football system. Not defence based but a team that attacks supported by a well oiled defence system. This is the system he has employed in most of the teams he has coached. Check Portugal’s defence records in qualifying and at the world cup. This is how United of recent years(Vida-Rio-Evra-Carrick) has now been set up. As soon as we deviate from any of the main components we collapse defensively. When CQ was around since 2006 this defensive “unit” was the ever present.
4. United used a similar system to the Real Madrid team he coached(which had one of the 1st dynamic position changing attacks).
5. Which is not really stone cold but it is widely believed that one of the main reasons Roy keane’s infamous Mutv interview was axed was due to the attack on CQ. According to Jim White’s “Manchester United. The Autobiography” Keane was not happy about the amount of responsibility given to CQ and his tactics(probably explains why our number 16 jersey changed from a brutal tackler to a smart and clean interceptor).
Conclusion 4.
SAF and CQ made a partnership.
Evidence
1. We had a winning mentality and showed great character and unity and grit whilst being efficient, organized and well oiled on the pitch.
Final conclusion.
Saf is the best manager in the world but is not up to scratch technically as seen by the constant chopping and changing and general lack of organized or cohesive football on the pitch right now. What he needs is to work alongside a technical man because the winning mentality is already there and so is the motivation and spirit which just needs to work within an excellent technical framework. Which is what I have been saying and what Donibrasco has been saying. I don’t dislike or loathe the boss and I don’t think he does either. We are pointing out his obvious weaknesses. I think I’ll turn in for now Conclusion. 1.
CQ is a great coach who made us a more organized, stable and well oiled team with a great defence.
Evidence.
1. Since his association with the club and while he was around we were able to combine attack and defence seamlessly.
2. Our defence has improved and has been more organized .
Conclusion 2.
He helped the club to get a better grip on the highly technical European arena.
Evidence.
1.Club’s failure to compete with European teams’ tactical prowess particularly in protecting goal, prior to CQ’s arrival and 2. better performances particularly in tactical battles after he came.
Conclusion 3.
He was responsible for the technical side of our team and coaching.
Evidence
1. Appointment as 1st team coach.
2. A more continental approach to our football particularly the introduction of 4-5-1 when he came.
3. A defence foundation football system. Not defence based but a team that attacks supported by a well oiled defence system. This is the system he has employed in most of the teams he has coached. Check Portugal’s defence records in qualifying and at the world cup. This is how United of recent years(Vida-Rio-Evra-Carrick) has now been set up. As soon as we deviate from any of the main components we collapse defensively. When CQ was around since 2006 this defensive “unit” was the ever present.
4. United used a similar system to the Real Madrid team he coached(which had one of the 1st dynamic position changing attacks).
5. Which is not really stone cold but it is widely believed that one of the main reasons Roy keane’s infamous Mutv interview was axed was due to the attack on CQ. According to Jim White’s “Manchester United. The Autobiography” Keane was not happy about the amount of responsibility given to CQ and his tactics(probably explains why our number 16 jersey changed from a brutal tackler to a smart and clean interceptor).
Conclusion 4.
SAF and CQ made a partnership.
Evidence
1. We had a winning mentality and showed great character and unity and grit whilst being efficient, organized and well oiled on the pitch.
Final conclusion.
Saf is the best manager in the world but is not up to scratch technically as seen by the constant chopping and changing and general lack of organized or cohesive football on the pitch right now. What he needs is to work alongside a technical man because the winning mentality is already there and so is the motivation and spirit which just needs to work within an excellent technical framework. Which is what I have been saying and what Donibrasco has been saying. I don’t dislike or loathe the boss and I don’t think he does either. We are pointing out his obvious weaknesses. I think I’ll turn in for now
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@Jay wire: And why do you feel that your simple logic (and I do mean SIMPLE), can convince that the most successful football manager of all time doesn’t know his stuff, technically??
Perhaps you can enlighten us peons of your qualifications!!
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@Owen- Ok look. I said he is a great coach in terms of coming up with good football systems. Ask any true Madrid fan and they’ll tell you his team played some really great football. He wasn’t given enough time at Madrid anyway and Perez ignored his every request. For instance, he begged him to buy a young Pepe for a ridiculous price and the president says “he is not marketable”. He pleads with him not sell Makelele and he ignores him completely. After less than a year he got fired. But still I’m not saying he can manage teams well. I don’t know how you are concluding that I’m comparing him to Ferguson and saying he is the one who won us titles. I’m merely stating that he helped us make the necessary transition to better technical standards which has always been Ferguson’s weakness. If you keep implicating that I’m comparing him to Ferguson then I’ll just have to ignore because I couldn’t be clearer if I wanted
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@Jay wire: I understand what you are saying in regards to SAF an CQ. As you know alot of people on this blog only see things in simple black and white terms. Forlan was a goal scoring flop at United, went to spain and won the golden boot, therfore Its easier to score in La Liga then EPL end of. You have made your case and presented it well, if people reject it then so be it but dont waste your time repeating yourself over and over again. your only punishing yourself.
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@johnsom33: Forlan left and we went on to win the CL. End of and good night.
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For once I agree with Jay Wire! The 2007 had Quieroz’s fingerprints all over it. No way would Fergie have been able to orchestrate that system with the counter attack and overlapping forwards. That is why in 2008 after Quieroz left Fergie shifted to a much more defensive version of 4-5-1 with conventional wingers expected to do their share of defensive work (as Nani found to his cost) with Ronaldo often played on his own upfront because of his reluctance to defend and Rooney expected to do the donkey work. And the following season Park took over the donkey role with Rooney on his own upfront. And this season Fergie has gone full circle back to a 4-4-2.
Also I don’t think it is disloyal to say Fergie is not perfect. He has achieved a lot of success with the club because he is a superb man manager, builds teams in his own image instilling them with a winning attitude, and has made some great signings over the years. There is no-one better at preparing a team for the marathon of the league.
But in cup games tactics are much more important and there have been so many European games over the years that we lost due to bad tactics.
In all of Fergie’s years at the club we have only been in three European Cup finals. My memory is a little hazy but no way should we have been dumped out by Porto, Monaco, Bayer Leverkusen and Bayern last season.
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@[OPTI] Madschester United: I knew it. I JUST KNEW IT. I knew you would give the one example that tries to defeat my argument. But it doesn’t. You of course ignored the other examples where Spanish and Italian clubs knocked out British clubs over the past 15 years or so. And lets not for get Middlesbrough’s nice run a few years back. Lets build your ironclad case now.
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@colver: Most managers would give their left nut to be in three Champions League finals. I think he has done just fine even though he hasn’t won as many as he would have liked. In fact the teams which have won more than two have rarely won those with the same manager. It took several managers to win 9 for Madrid, 7 for Milan and four for Bayern. Ajax won 4 with 3 different managers as well. So Fergie having won 2 all by his lonesome is pretty damned good and nothing to be ashamed of considering it is the hardest and most competitive of all trophies to win because of the competition you have to go through.
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@colver: You are proving to be just another glory whore.
“In your memory”?? How can it be hazy?? You have just started to semi-support this club.
It makes me absolutely sick to read this eternal bullshit about how SAF is the root of our problems.
He is the root of our successes. If you can’t see this you are a detractor and not a supporter.
All of you – get over this non-sensible idea that the man that probably drew to the club in the first place, is the main idea that you come on here and try to turn the truth upside. This whole place has become an exercise in online bravado, and nothing at all to do with supporting Manchester United.
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@Jay wire: Well written but still, way too much credit to CQ for stuff you have to attribute to Fergie for the success. Fergie is no idiot mate. He is stubborn and slow to adapt at times but adapt he does. He learned his big lesson when AC Milan embarrassed us in 2006 I believe it was and since then he adopted more and more of the Italian club’s ways of playing the game in Europe. This had nothing to do with CQ as he was around when we got embarrassed, lets not forget that. Fergie also won the Champions League in 1999 without CQ and again he did it after suffering embarrassing loss to Dortmund the year before. He observes, takes notes and learns from his mistakes. You don not build his legacy and CV and have that kind of dominant career without having something to offer yourself.
CQ was a fine coach but he had nothing to do with the tactics and organization of the club. That was all Fergie and CQ was in charge of making sure the club practiced all the elements in training that Fergie would want. This club has always been Fergie’s and it’s success is entirely due to him. He has had good people working around him, great players and loyal fans but he has been the single most responsible party for the club’s success for the past twenty five years.
Wasting space and time building up the shaky and precarious accomplishments of one Carlos Queiroz to us on here is a futile attempt that I see no point in and a forlorn hope because you will not win over many who agree with you. Why? Because the man has turned his back on this club twice and although that might be OK with Fergie fans dislike disloyalty immensely. Secondly, his record as a manager has been a joke to say the least. So what if he’s a good coach, me thinks you put much more value on that position and job description that is really there. Fergie is the boss and everything goes through him, believe me.
Oh, by the way kudos to you for taking my advice about breaking up your rants into paragraphs. Much easier to read even if I don’t agree with your comments. But don’t feel offended by that because if anyone on here is used to people disagreeing with his comments, it’s me. Cheers.
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@Jay wire: I have to agree with you there. But truthfully, I think Fergie realizes that we have no chance of winning in Europe and is just keeping the team together with glue and staples hoping for that 19th EPL title. He can win domestically with the club he has and that alone should tell you and everyone else just how badly the EPL has slipped of late.
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@Redrich: Thanks for that Red. Hopefully you will make an effort to be on here more as things really heat up down the stretch. The blog needs you and me to keep the young pups in line. As for the next game, I would be ecstatic with a draw but I do have this niggling feeling in the back of my head that tells me our undefeated streak will end. I just personally feel Spurs to be a much more quality team than in past years. That said I think if we counter properly we can beat them because their Achilles Heel is still their back four. But will Fergie be to cautious to take up the challenge of attacking the Spurs weakness? I hope he does so the way he seems to do vs Arsenal the past few years. Fingers crossed mate.
Oh and I don’t know if you have noticed but lately I have been much more positive and complimentary of Fergie. This has not been insincere on my part. Just feel like supporting him where he deserves it. Too many are slagging him for the way the club plays and the rotations but personally, I think the job he is doing with this ragtag bunch is the best coaching of his entire career.
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@Redrich: Agreed and lets not forget to include the increase of very hard studs up tackles we have had to endure. The league has not done a good enough job stamping the dirty play out.
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@Jay wire: Seriously mate, contact CQ and ask to be his agent. I think you are the ponly man on the planet that is building him way above his true status. Like i said before, he was valauble but the buck has always stopped with Fergie and Fergie has always made the changes and taken it upon himself to adapt to Europe. Remember,he won three European trophies long before CQ was with United and has constantly adopted, learned and evolved. Sometimes his club’s talent told him to stick with things too long but overall, he has been a real student of the Italian and Brazilian game and has brought in a lot of changes which CQ was only there to help implement.
Just remember, Bobby Robson had an assistant named Jose Mourinho when he was at Barcelona. When Mourinho went on his own he won everything including the Champions League with two different clubs and was the single greatest threat to United’s dominance in the league since Fergie took over. Nobody would argue with his CV and with his contribution under Robson simply because he proved his value post Robson. What exactly has CQ done without Fergie that makes him the MVP you make him out to be? Inquiring minds would like to know.
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@Redrich:
Good one. I may have my problems with Fergie off the pitch but to argue with the man’s success after 25 years of winning and over 20 trophies is a forlorn hope and a ridiculous endeavour. Fergie is the greatest club manager of all time and trying to stain his reputation by building up some part time hack like CQ is insulting to his legacy, don’t you think? I may be down over his relationship with the owners but I will still call it as I see it. I love the way couch potatoes at home can sit and talk about the game as if they know more than Fergie. Only I am able to do this and get away with it due to my genius. 
Sorry, had to lighten things up. Too many professors out there trying to tell Fergie he isn’t qualified to manage. 
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@Jay wire: Do you honestly think CQ would come up with the football system and tactics for a game and then get the ok from Fergie to use them in a game? You must be daft. Fergie decides what system, tactics and players will be used and he may ask for suggestions but me thinks you are giving far too much credit to the guy who carries the bag of training balls to the practice pitch everyday and puts the team through their paces.
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@Grognard: Yep, Sunday will be a hard one for sure.
The game between the 2 teams is generally an open one. Spurs rely a lot on Bales and if he can be kept wide, we’ll stand a good chance of protecting out fragile central defense.
Look for a good game from Nani and hopefully Scholes can come in for a way-under-performing Fletcher. Like to see Berbatov make WHL spew with envy – won’t bet the farm on that though.
If Rooney was half the player he was this time last year, we’d be golden.
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@Redrich: Again let me add that although Ihave problems with Fergie and his role with the Glazer’s, I agree with Redrich 100%. Everything we are and all the success we have had as a club is 100% due to the Boss. He has done a terrific if not entertaining job with a lacklustre and completely mediocre squad of players that no other manager would be able to get above 4th place with. Sure we have been boring but the old man knows what he’s doing because he knows he hasn’t got the money to buy the players it would take for us to up the pace and show the style. So we play Italian football and hold on to the ball and lull clubs to sleep before we pounce on them with a goal late to win. And we do it time after time after time. That’s no fluke, that’s the Boss knowing his business and getting the very best out of this band of bozo’s. I don’t like the man much these days for other reasons but I still respect his managerial talents and his accomplishments and others would be wise to give the man his due and respect those qualities because it won’t be long before we will be all bitching about a club that is Fergieless and struggling to stay afloat as long as the Glazer’s are in charge.
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@Grognard: Perfect, and the way you disguise it is the real genius!!(joking, here)
Thanks for your honesty. It’s refreshing and real, mate.
Too many folks have started to develop cliched persona’s that have probably more to do their avatar’s than real people.
Their general optimistic or pessimistic view has to prevail, regardless of the facts. Too many try to argue endlessly about trivial details of no import – because not to would reveal some form of weakness.
Can we please start to become a more unified body of support, and not so much an entity of rebuke and dis-satisfaction.
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@Jay wire: You said barca don’t do alot of needless passing. Look at the stats for barca, say against their latest opposition. They had 75% possesion yet had only 8 attempts on goal.
Doing the math, they had the ball for around 70 minutes and only attempted to score on 8 occasions, that’s an attempt every 8.5 minutes of possesion. So tell me where the ball was for a good 7 or so minutes before they decided to try and score, and if you say it was being passed around in the opposition box then let the discussion end here.
But thats only one game and there games when they have had more than 20 attempts on goal and that’s mostly when they are chasing a goal, like against hercules but the possesion in those games nears 90%. Quick math again, thats an attempt every 4 or so minutes, still a glaring statistic that they can pass the ball for a whole four minutes when chasing a goal. Boring if you ask me.
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So they ought to pass the ball once or twice and shoot on sight? Right. That should work. Anyway I’m taking Johnsom’s advice and I won’t be repeating anything. I like debating in general but it’s pointless to keep saying the same thing. I’m polite to respond to anyone who responds to my posts but I won’t bother anymore if it means I ought to repeat
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@Grognard: My main argument is the fact that most Spanish and Italian teams are out of Europe after group stages. Fulham’s surprise performance is merely supporting evidence…
The average team in EPL is the “best” in Europe. I will stand by this for this season and the next.
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@Jay wire: Trying to counter me by some absurd conclusion is ridiculous. 1 or 2 passes would probably take less than 5 seconds and that’d mean they give away possesion far too easy, taking the overall possesion to somewhere below 5%. My point, which you are either purposely refusing to see is that they keep the ball for far too long and do nothing with it for lobg periods of time.
Hell if they were direct as you claim, how long would it take to move a ball from defence to goal, i’m thinking less than 2 minutes, 1 if a team is really looking for the goal.
What you fail to admit is, barca’s passing is much a defensive tactic as it is offensive, keep the ball away from the opponents until you find a way past them. They basically do what scholes and carrick do when they pass to the GK except they do it in midfield.
And to cap it all,the reason i think they are boring is my belief that if you aren’t doing something with the ball, then let the opponents have it instead of keeping it in midfield for seven minutes. I dont pay to see footballer play keep ball, if thats what i wanted to see i could turn up in training sessions instead.
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@Grognard: I think you are the only person in the world who think that spanish or even italian clubs have been better than the english recently. The english club have been far dominant than any other country in europe. Consistently in the quarters and bar last year,featured more than any of your so called big countries in the semi’s. If you need proof just check on FIFA’s clubd seeding, england dominate and if liverpool had qualified for the CL half of the seeded teams would be english.
But maybe UEFA are wrong and don’t know their own competition and how it’s been fairing recently.
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@Redrich: My Forlan example was sarcastic, and Im hoping your response to it was also sarcastic.
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Redrich I found your comments very personal and offensive. You are entitled to disagree with me but I would prefer you refrain from questioning my support for the club.
Fergie is the best manager of his generation. But he is secure enough to admit when he makes mistakes. And while he is quite stubborn he does eventually learn from those mistakes (as opposed to Wenger who just won’t give up his kiddie experiment). For me this makes Fergie a great man as well as a great manager.
Fergie admits he would have liked to have won more Champions League titles. While in his statement to the press he blamed bad luck our tactics were off as we were much too gung-ho. Although in Fergie’s defence I would say that the players we had for all their ability were tactically limited and locked into a 4-4-2 (just like the England team).
Whereas in the past we would lose to teams that were weaker than us, now he successfully negotiates every tie where we are stronger or equal to our opposition. At Bayern it was because the players didn’t show up in the first leg. Not Fergie’s fault. At Barcelona they were the better team on paper and we just did not have the personnel in centre midfield to counter them and again the players let Fergie down.
My great sadness as a fan is that now Fergie has mastered the European game he is limited by lack of transfer funds. But hopefully the Glazers will leave soon and Fergie will be given the funds he needs to knock Barcelona off his perch and win one more Champions League before riding into the sunset.
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@Spizzy: Forget the past. There is a change happening and it’s hurting English football. Partly due to teams carrying big debts and that catching up with them and partly due to Michel Platini and UEFA trying to shoot English teams in the foot.
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